1 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session two sixty one of 12 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into 13 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. In celebration 14 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: of Black Music Month this week, I'm joined by Danielle Smith, 15 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: the former editor in chief of Vibe magazine, R and 16 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: B editor at Billboard, Award winning journalist and host of 17 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: the mega hit podcast Black Girls Songbook. Danielle is also 18 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: the author of the new and highly celebrated book Shine Bright, 19 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: a very personal history of Black women in pop The 20 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: book is a literary mash up part biography, part memoir, 21 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: all while weaving in the history of black women's contributions 22 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: to the genre of American pop music. During our conversation, 23 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: we explored the music that has meant the most to 24 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: Danielle in her lifetime, and chatted about how she prioritized 25 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: her mental health while writing the book. And a quick 26 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: note about the episode. Danielle and I recorded this conversation 27 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: the week after our brothers and sisters were killed in 28 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: the Buffalo grocery store, and so we did get into 29 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: that a little bit at around the fifteen minute mark. 30 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to give you a heads up 31 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: to make sure that you take care of yourself while listening. 32 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please 33 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: share with us on social media using the hashtag tv 34 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: G in session or join us over in the Sister Circle. 35 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 1: So let's talk more in depth about the episode. You 36 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: can join us at community that Therapy for Black Girls 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: dot com. Here's our conversation. I am so excited to 38 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: tchere with you, Danielle. Thank you so much for making 39 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: time for us today. Oh my goodness, I'm honored to 40 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: be here. Thank you so much for having me. Yes 41 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: so let's get started by talking about when did you 42 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: decide that it was time to write a book about 43 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: black women in pop music. I think it's been in 44 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: me since the beginning of my career, to be honest 45 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: with you, I think I've been thinking about it in 46 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: one way or another throughout the duration of my career, 47 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: especially as I began to because I started my career 48 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: doing live reviews and things like that, like going to concerts. 49 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: One of my first assignments was going to see Natalie 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Cole in concert and writing a live review. It was 51 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: one of the more exciting moments of my life and 52 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: exceeded the deal for me that I wanted to do 53 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: what I'm doing right now as a career. But then 54 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: once I started actually meeting women, meeting black women who 55 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: make R and B and pop music and speaking to 56 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: them about their stories, I always knew that at some 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: point I was gonna have to get it all down. Yeah, 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: it feels like there were so many different directions you 59 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: could have gone, right, I mean, you could have done 60 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: individual books on like individual people like It feels like 61 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: there were lots of different rules you could have taken. 62 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: How did you kind of finally decide probably with the 63 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: help of your editor, like how to narrow the book. 64 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: We were able to narrow down. I mean we had 65 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: to narrow it down, honestly, because I just wasn't getting finished. 66 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: That was the first thing. It was almost logistical. And 67 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Chris Jackson, who was my editor at One World, he 68 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: was like, I think I may have an idea of 69 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: why you're not finishing. And I was like, well, I 70 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: was up for anything. I was like, well, what is 71 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: it if you have and if you have an idea, 72 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: and he said, because if you're just trying to write 73 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: like an encyclopedic book of profiles about black women in 74 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: pop music, there is no finishing. Like you could keep 75 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: writing for your whole life. A hundred other women or 76 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: people could keep writing their whole life, and we still 77 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: would not be done. He said, But if we talk 78 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: about this being a personal history, then already we have 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: some parameters, we have a spine. So what I began 80 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: to do was make choices based on the music that 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: has meant the most to me and my sister over 82 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: the course of my life and my career. Then music 83 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: that has meant the most to my mother and her 84 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: sister and the women and the music who meant the 85 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: most to my late grandmother and her sister. So then 86 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: we began to have a story to tell. Yeah, there 87 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: was such a beautiful weaving of like your personal story 88 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: with the stories of the artists that you have decided 89 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: to cover. So I thought that was a very unique 90 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: piece of the book. So you start the book with 91 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: American author and poet Phillis Swheetley. Why did you feel 92 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: like it was important to start with her story? Well, one, 93 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: because I do believe that Phillis sweet Lee is a 94 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: foundation for black women in pop She's our first global superstar. 95 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: A fact about Philip Sweetly, aside from her being like 96 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: the first published black poet, wasn't even the United States 97 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: of America when she started writing. It was barely the 98 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: thirteen Colonies at that time. But once she began to 99 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: be popular in Massachusetts, she ended up going back across 100 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: the Atlantic after having been kidnapped and brought over here 101 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: and sold as a slave to the Weekly family. She 102 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: actually went back across the Atlantic, which I don't know 103 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: if it was freeing for her or if it was 104 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: more traumatic, but she went over there and she performed 105 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: her poems, She spoke her poems and she sang her 106 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: poems for the literary salons of that time. And I 107 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: was always very much in love with even the idea 108 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: of Philis Sweetly, even before I knew that, just because 109 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: as a little girl, like I don't know, fourth, fifth, 110 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: sixth grade, there was a reading area in one of 111 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: the classrooms I was in, and every month the decorations 112 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: would change, and then one month it was Philis Sweetly, 113 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: And I always remember they were like they tried to 114 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: make Slavery nice, like they tried to make the Middle 115 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: Passage nice, and God bless Mrs Black, because that's who 116 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: it was. But there were like stars up in the sky, 117 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: dark sky, so you could just imagine, I think, a 118 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: little girl on the Middle Passage looking up at the stars, 119 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: which I'm sure did not happen, but for me as 120 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: a little girl, it made me fall in love with 121 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: her as a human, you know, and not just the poet. 122 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: And how did the title shine Bright come about? What 123 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: does that mean to you? Well, I say, and in 124 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: shine Bright that I look upon it as a mission 125 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: statement and also a command. I look upon it as 126 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: a command I do. I'm not one that likes to 127 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: go around commanding stuff on folks, even though it's fun, 128 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: but that's not how we're supposed to act. And this 129 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: is therapy for black girls. So I know that we're 130 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: not supposed to be doing all that kind of commanding. 131 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: But I am going to make an exception and say, 132 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: I just command black women to shine bright, shine bright, 133 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: and it's not just coming for me. One of the 134 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: songs that so many black girls learn as little girls, 135 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: we girls like four or five six year old girls. 136 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: If you're in acquir or you go to day camp 137 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: or anything, you learn that song, this Little Lot of Mine, 138 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to let it shine. We all know that song, 139 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: every little where I go, I'm gonna let it shine. 140 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: All the great ones have sung that, all the great 141 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: black women vocalists have sung that song. And I can 142 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: trace the line from that song to Rihanna Fincy sang 143 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: shine Bright like a Diamond. And I look at that 144 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: as the frame, and I think that we forget the 145 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: gale and the confidence that we felt as little girls 146 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: singing this Little Light of mine. I'm gonna you know, 147 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: we probably had on our eastern dress or our little 148 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: choir roabe, or we were in a row with all 149 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: our little friends at school or at church. And we 150 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: felt so good nine times out of ten, and I 151 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: want us to reclaim some of that energy. So that's 152 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: where the title came from. For me. Absolutely, I appreciate 153 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: each thing that you know you've also written about, like 154 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: your experiences with self doubt and like really acclaiming your complishments. 155 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there are so many, you know, but I 156 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: think that's really interesting kind of given your command of 157 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: like shine right, and so you know, we all have 158 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: had our own personal experiences with that, and so I'd 159 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: love for you to share, if you feel comfortable, like 160 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: your experiences with that and how you've been able to 161 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: move past that, especially I think with the book, because 162 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: I feel like the book put you on this stage 163 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: that is very different than maybe you know, other very 164 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: cool things that you've done throughout your career. I mean, 165 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: neither my life nor my career has been any kind 166 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: of like straight line. I think it's lengths in Houston's 167 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: at life for being ain't been on Crystal Stair. And 168 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm special as a black woman for 169 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: that to be true. I don't, I think for so 170 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: many of us, because he was writing about his mother 171 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: and so for so many of us, like for us 172 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: has not nor does it continue to be a crystal 173 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: stair and as I lined, has gone into really in 174 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: detail and shine bright. At a very tumultuous childhood, it 175 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: was violent physically, it was violent spiritually, and I had 176 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: to make a decision very early on in my life 177 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: that I was going to become an adult that probably 178 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: around the age of fourteen, I think, and that I 179 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: was going to have to make a lot of the 180 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: decisions for myself that others might have made for me. 181 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: So while I think that made me a very strong 182 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: little girl, it also infused me with a lot of 183 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: intense and constant self doubt and second guessing always even 184 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: to this moment. I mean, it gets better every year. 185 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: Every year I get a little bit more free. But 186 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: it's been difficult. I think it's also been not easy. 187 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: But when you can stand up and say Hello, I'm 188 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: Daniel Smith, I'm the R and B editor at Billboard. Hello, 189 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Smith. I'm the editor of Billboard. Hello, I'm 190 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: Daniel Smith. I'm the new intern at the San Francisco 191 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: Bay Guardian. I'm the I am Daniel I'm the editor 192 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: in chief of Vibe. And this is actually the second 193 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: time that I've been asked to be the editor in 194 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: chief of Vibe. The thing is you always have that 195 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: brand attached. You always have that I'm with ESPN, I'm 196 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: Daniel Smith, and I'm not saying it makes it easy, 197 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: but it makes it easier. The thing about this part 198 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: of my life with Shine Bright is that I'm here 199 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: on behalf of myself. I'm Daniel Smith of Daniel Smith. 200 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: Like I'm telling the stories that I want to tell 201 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: about the black women that I'm choosing, and I'm telling 202 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: my story as it relates to them, and I've worked 203 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: very hard for as you mentioned, for that, we've to 204 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: be as seamless as possible. I don't think there's any 205 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: spoilers to be given away at the end of Shine Bright, 206 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: but I do think that I was not feeling this 207 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: good about myself before I wrote I'm right. I definitely 208 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: am feeling better now, even though in some spaces it 209 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: was awful to write down these most personal things. It's awful, 210 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: a lot of tears, a lot of tears, but then 211 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: you wake up and it's in the world and you 212 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: are reminded that you are not alone. Yeah, it's so 213 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: interesting to hear you say because of course I know 214 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: your resume, like so many of us knew your resume, 215 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: but I don't feel like you need any other brand 216 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: attached to your name, like you are Daniel Smith, right. 217 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: But I think it is the disconnect between like how 218 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: we often see ourselves and how the rest of the 219 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: world sees us. It's often not congruent, absolutely, and it's 220 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: just interesting for me even to talk about it. I 221 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: think so many things. I have a very tight relationship 222 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: with my husband, and my husband who would literally it'll 223 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: be seventeen years next month, so I mean, I think 224 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: I thought he knew all that there was to know 225 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: about me, and vice versa. And we have a thing 226 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: that we do when he's writing well when I'm writing well, 227 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: where we will read the other person's work allowed to 228 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: them so you can hear it in a quote unqole 229 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: like Stranger's voice without your intonation. That's a really a 230 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: good editing trick. And Eliott would be reading and he 231 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: would get emotional and he would say because I met 232 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: him when we were both working journalists, and he would say, 233 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: I just always thought you were so completely and in 234 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: every way confident in every move that you made. And 235 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: I said I got you, didn't I I said I 236 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: got everybody Because so much of our lives are performance, 237 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that it was complete performance. But 238 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, you wake up in the morning and you say, 239 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: or at least I did. I am this person. I 240 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: know I am good at this. I know I am 241 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: gonna do good work today, and that is how I'm 242 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: going to move through this day. But you know that 243 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: might be a Monday. On Tuesday, you might wake up 244 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: like everything that I do was a mistake. I don't 245 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: make good decisions. I don't know if I can trust 246 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: my own creativity. I think people at the job don't 247 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: trust my expertise. Also, I just don't think I look 248 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: cute in this outfit, and you still have to go 249 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: up there and act as if none of that is true. 250 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: And I'm very, very good at that. And it's kind 251 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: of more relaxed now that I can even say that 252 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: allowed to folks. Mm hmm, I mean, but I think 253 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: that's truth for us. So many of us as black women, 254 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: right like, we gotta put on the face, we gotta 255 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: put on the uniform, right like, and go in the 256 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: office and take care of business as if the world 257 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: is not falling apart outside. Yes, yes, it's not just. 258 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: It's not just either, like you could say that my 259 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: jobs have been somewhat glamorous, right. I have a niece 260 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: who work the front lines that she took time off 261 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: school during the pandemic working at Target. She's a real 262 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: genius of a girl, and she had to put on 263 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: that armor to go up there. My sister, her mother, 264 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: teaches part of second third right, and she loves it, 265 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: and she has to put on her armor to go 266 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: up there even and she loves being a teacher. But 267 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: it's hard sometimes just to be us. And it feels 268 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: like incredibly impactful having this conversation in the moment we're 269 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: having it, right, So we're kind of fresh office massacre 270 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: in Buffalo, and so it feels like that like point 271 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: hits home, you know, to kind of just beat us 272 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: in the world. Grocery shopping is not even safe. And 273 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: here's the thing. I remember when I first started getting 274 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: like a paycheck that allowed me to be in the 275 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: grocery store and just to get the stuff that I 276 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: actually wanted and not necessarily the stuff that I felt 277 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: that I needed and that I had to have my 278 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: coupons together and I needed to make sure that it 279 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: was going to stretch from this day of this week 280 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. But I could really just go into the 281 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: grocery store and just say, you know what, I usually 282 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: get ground beef. I'm gonna get ground land. I just 283 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: want to make me some lamburgers. Or I usually get 284 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: these napkins that are on sale, but these napkins are particular, 285 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: literally pretty. They're only forty five It's more than the 286 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: napkins that I usually get, and I'm gonna get those. 287 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: And I just literally feel that for a lot of 288 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: people that don't come for money grocery shopping, it's a 289 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: moment where it could be so filled with stress and worry. 290 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: You know, I picture these women that I see their 291 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: photos that were killed. You know, they look like my 292 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: grandmother before she passed, and and I know for my grandmother, 293 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: she enjoyed it. I'm gonna make some eggnog. Let's run 294 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: down to the store. And so that's what these people 295 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: were on. These women mostly, it seems like women were 296 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: on just down there getting some food, probably to make 297 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: for other folks. Man, you know, today is a heartbreaking day. Yeah, yeah, agreed. 298 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: The grocery store, Yeah, you know, that way so many 299 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: black women. It's kind of a joke where it's like 300 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: love target just like to walk the aisles and look 301 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: at things and maybe it's an hour and a half 302 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: half away from the responsibilities of home or work, a 303 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: moment where you can have your little Starbucks and you 304 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: can walk through and say, oh, I didn't know that 305 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: those pajamas came and pink, I think, let me just 306 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: touch those or maybe by those I don't know if 307 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: they're sacred spaces, but they are spaces where when it 308 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: isn't rushed, and when everything isn't about stretching every penny 309 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: as far as it can go, it can be such 310 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: a space of like I'm in here by myself, sucking breathe, 311 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: and then that right, it's a tough day. Yeah. More 312 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: from my conversation with Danielle after the break. So you 313 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: talked earlier about feeling like you came out of the 314 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: book writing process in the different place than a better 315 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: place and you went into it. What was it about 316 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: the process of going through the book writing that allowed 317 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: you to kind of come out on a different place. 318 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: A couple of things. I'm very adamant about the stories 319 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: that I tell about a readA Franklin's life, Jody Walley's life, 320 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: Nancy Wilson's life, Mariah's life. I'm very adamant to not 321 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: speak about these women in summary. I'm very adamant about 322 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: speaking about the details of these women's lives, so I 323 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: don't take on each woman from cradle to grave, as 324 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: they say. I picked certain moments in certain years, or 325 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: even certain songs, and just get very deep into that. 326 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: And I wanted to give myself that same courtesy. I 327 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: didn't want to speak about myself in summary. I didn't 328 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: want to speak about my story talking around things. I 329 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: wanted to give myself the respect of telling my stories 330 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: in detail and just getting it out. I've talked about 331 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: the incidents of my life with counselors over the years. 332 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: I've written about the things that have happened to me 333 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: as a child and as a teenager and in my twenties, 334 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: and every creative writing class that I've ever taken. The 335 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: people in my m f A program know me better 336 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: than a lot of folks. But even in those spaces 337 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: I was talking around things, it was talking about things 338 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: in detail, doing reporting and researching on my own life, 339 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: just giving myself that respect having a there's a fact 340 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: checker that checked every fact in Shine Bright. They also 341 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: check every fact about my life. He did. Sudrina Ford 342 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: is a monster. And she would call me and say, 343 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: you said that such and such a year was the 344 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: year that you experienced your first eighty degree Christmas in 345 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: Los Angeles And I said, yeah, girl, oh remember that 346 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: I was riding my bike on Christmas Day. I didn't 347 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: know anything about that in the Sunshine. She said, well, 348 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: what year was it? And I said, well, I think 349 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 1: it's seventy five, seventy six, So she went to the 350 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: almanac to make sure. So that kind of attention. I 351 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: have been paying to the stories of other women and 352 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: people and artists since I started my career, so it 353 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: was time for me to time that lens on myself. 354 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: And I think it just makes me feel better. I 355 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: feel like I've paid attention to myself. Yeah, that sounds 356 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: both incredibly rewarding but also incredibly scary, Right like go 357 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: through yourself and have other people right like go through 358 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: the fine to details with that kind of accuracy feels 359 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: like excruciating but also beautiful. It is, and I'm happy 360 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: that I had such a partner in subrending because you 361 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: know that's touching moments. Yeah, touching moments, I mean, And 362 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: she had the car. Remember she had to speak to 363 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: my aunt, my mother's sister about some things, and it 364 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: was like, am I really about to give her my 365 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: aunt's phone number? I'm really about, you know, And I'm 366 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: very lucky that my aunt was like, what do you 367 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: need to know? What do you need? Yes that I 368 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: know that didn't. Yes that did know that didn't. And 369 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: she got so into her story being told she was 370 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: a beauty contest contestant in all black beauty pageants in 371 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: Northern California when she was in her late teens and 372 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: early twenties, and like that is the kind of thing 373 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: that also just doesn't get talked about. It's so raggedy 374 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: in some ways because you had to be a certain 375 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: lightness of skin to be in these pageants. And then 376 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: for the women who were light skin enough to be 377 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: a part of it, though, they remember these pageants like 378 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: the most beautiful moments of their lives. And I talked 379 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: about both sides of it as I am here, and 380 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: I was happy that my aunt was hoping to talking 381 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: about it, like so we hadn't had that conversation. Not 382 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: every story ends as beautifully as the one I just 383 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: said about my aunt, and there's been tough moments too, 384 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: but I just feel better that things are out there. 385 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So as I hear you talking about it, 386 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely feel like you're bringing the material 387 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: to life in a way that I feel like it's 388 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: captured on the page, but not as eloquently I think 389 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: is as you are, of course speaking to your person, 390 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: And so as a psychologist, I'm thinking, how did you 391 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: support yourself through giving birth to this book and bringing 392 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: it into the world, Like, how were you taking care 393 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: of your mental health and prioritizing your mental health in 394 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: the process of writing Super Intentional. I'm not ashamed to 395 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: say that I'm depressive and have been so since I 396 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: was in my teens. I go in and out of 397 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: depressive states almost my entire life, since I was like, yeah, 398 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: nine or ten years old, and so in and out 399 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: of counseling. I started going really as an adult intensely 400 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: in my my mid thirties. It's always been a great 401 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: help to me. And I should say too, after Rip 402 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: that my husband and I are always in counsel and 403 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: we found our counselor in Los Angeles through Therapy for 404 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: Black Girls. Sure we did, and she is fantastic. I 405 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: had a therapist, and then I just began to say, 406 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: I need some goals for therapy, Like I can't just 407 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: be coming to therapy to say how my day went 408 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: or why it made me feel good or not, or 409 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: always to be looking back on the terrible time of 410 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: my teenage years and my tween years. And so what 411 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: my personal counsel and I came up with was I 412 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: wanted to be the kind of speaker that could talk 413 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: about my story the most really hangous parts of my 414 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: tween and teen years without breaking down. This was the 415 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: goal because that would always happen to me and it 416 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: would be very embarrassing for me. And it kept also 417 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: from doing the kind of public speaking that I do 418 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: now all the time on songbook and even here talking 419 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: with you. So we just did a lot of work. 420 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not gonna board with the details of 421 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: the exercises and things like that, but it helped me 422 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: so much over the course of and just being able 423 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: to have someone to talk to about what I was 424 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: doing and how I was doing it and how it 425 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: was making me feel and something that she reminded me 426 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: to do also with just there's so much morning about 427 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: that part of my childhood that I just didn't really 428 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: get to have. So she's like, you just have to 429 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: entertain that child, like entertain that child. So I took 430 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: that seriously. So I've always loved writing my bike, but 431 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, in New York, I couldn't do it as much. 432 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: But now that I'm in California, let me tell you, 433 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: I'm always on my bike. This was the joy of 434 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: my child and in the freedom of my childhood, and 435 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm always on my bike. I'll be by and little 436 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: outfits to wear on my bike. I gotta have the 437 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: right little lights from my bike. I just got a 438 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: new lock from my bike. It's lighter than the other locks, 439 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: so it's not so heavy on my back when I'm writing, 440 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: and it gives me so much space away from thinking 441 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: about all of this stuff, even the other women's lives 442 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: that I love writing about so much. So those were 443 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: the things I think being in counseling. I'm blessed to 444 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: have a supportive partner. It's a blessing in my life. 445 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: And it's my second husband, so I haven't always had 446 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: that and movements, specifically the bike I think has kept 447 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: me saying I love that, I love that both she 448 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: assigned that to you, but then oh, you have also 449 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: taken your assigning so seriously. I'm nurturing that little girl 450 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: and giving her the freedom and fun that you feel 451 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: like you didn't have. I think that's important. It is fun. Yeah, 452 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: it is fun. It really is m hm. So one 453 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: of the things that I really enjoy just observing you 454 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: from a Florid Danielle, is the sisterhood that it feels 455 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: like you really cultivate, I think, especially with like younger 456 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: journalists and also I think younger artists, and I just 457 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: love for you to talk a little bit about, if 458 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: you can, like how working with other women and telling 459 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: the stories around other women has really helped you to 460 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: kind of make sense of your own career in relationships. 461 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: I mean, without question, it's been a journey, and I 462 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: don't know if I was as good at it when 463 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: I was younger maybe as I am over the last 464 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: fifteen years. But one thing that I've never liked is 465 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: just being like the only person. I don't like when 466 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: there's women that I see that have so much talented 467 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: and usually they're black women, but not even all the 468 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: time who they're spectacular writers say, but no one has 469 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: ever really told them that they have the skills to 470 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: be an editor or to be in the leadership position, 471 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: or maybe I can just talk to you about the 472 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: things that you could do to become an editor or 473 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: to become whatever, and is the next step in what 474 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: you're trying to do. This brings me an intense amount 475 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: of joy beyond Also, I don't have kids. We don't 476 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: have kids, and so I think also it's just so 477 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: much fun to see somebody like improve. It's so much 478 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: fun to see somebody yeah, unable to do something, you know, 479 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: at the top of a year, and then by the 480 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: end of the year they get it, they can do it, 481 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: and I've helped. It's really a joy. And I also 482 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: just like the kids because they know what's going on now. 483 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: I don't like to feel out of touch. I don't. 484 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: I just don't. I was talking about my niece. I 485 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: can say the same for my nephew. And I call 486 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: some of my I call my baby girlfriends, and I shouldn't, 487 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: but that's what I call them. And most of them 488 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: are in their late twenties, thirties and some now going 489 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: on in their forties, and they go out. I still 490 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: go out, but not like I used to. I'm gonna 491 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: go to the shows, but they're at the club, okay, 492 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: and I want to know what going on. And so 493 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: it's an awesome exchange, really, and I think it makes 494 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: for rich relationships. And I think I have just things 495 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 1: to offer. I've been in a long marriage now. A 496 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: lot of women that I know, my baby girlfriends, they're 497 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: either newly married or in new partnerships, or they're looking 498 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: for partnerships that you know, they want to see grow. 499 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: And I have my little advice for good better Otherwise. 500 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, a therapist properly, but I have 501 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: my my little just things that I know from experience. 502 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: And I don't like Black women who have no one 503 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: to talk to when they are ambitious. I love to 504 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: see ambition in Black women and women in general. Sometimes 505 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: it's hard. Sometimes it can make me feel old, but 506 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: that's really only about ten to fifteen percent of the time. 507 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: It really is because I really just love it too much. 508 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: Like to listen to like the producers and stuff on 509 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: Black Girl Songbook, and they're trying to get to the 510 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: next stage of their life, and I could see in 511 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: their face that same kind of interview that I had 512 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: when I was their age. So the idea that one 513 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't help, that's trifling to me. I can almost just 514 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: say to like, I just wasn't raised like that. I 515 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: want people to succeed. I want their creativity to be fulfilled. 516 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: I want them to know better how to deal with 517 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: situations then I knew how to deal with them. And 518 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: to me, it just seems like it's only fair and 519 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: only right. And like I said, they're fun. They put 520 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 1: me up on all the gossip, they teach me how 521 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: not to text, like I'm an old lady. You know 522 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's good, yeah, And I mean, you 523 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: know what, it feels like, there's so much iconic work 524 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: that you have put out into the world. But I'm 525 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: also aware that at the time you were doing it, 526 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: you were wonder you if not only right, Like you know, 527 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: there weren't very many sisters doing the kinds of things 528 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: that you were doing until in some ways it kind 529 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: of feels like a paying forward. But probably also I 530 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: wish I had this, Oh man, do I and I 531 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: had some of it? You know? I had some great 532 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: women in my life, and I I had honestly a 533 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: bunch of white males, some black males. I had people 534 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: to help me along. But once you get past the 535 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: part of writing about culture in the early nineties, back 536 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: when hip hop wasn't accepted as the dominant cultural force 537 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: that it is today, when in fact, we were being 538 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: told that it was a fat and it would never last, 539 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: and it wasn't real music, and it wasn't worthy of 540 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: critique or celebration or anything. Man, Listen, some of those 541 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: days were terrible. It's like every meeting you went into 542 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: you were explaining the whole history of black music to 543 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: get somebody to give us a third of a page 544 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: on Oaktown's three five seven or something like that. So 545 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: do I wish I had somebody like me back then? 546 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: Of course I do. But I think I had a 547 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: whole bunch of people that gave me a little bit 548 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: that equaled up to a lot. I talked about some 549 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: of them in Shine Bright. You know, there's a black 550 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: woman at Vibe, Dane Cardwall, who really just you know, 551 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: sometimes it isn't that a person has to be in 552 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: your life every day for years. If a person is 553 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: in touch with your spirit and your ambition, even if 554 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: it's over the course of the creation of one magazine 555 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: piece as a piece about mc hammer from my hometown, 556 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: and she assigned it to me a six thousand words. 557 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: I had never written anything I think more than maybe 558 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: three thousand. That's elite. You have to keep so much 559 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: together really getting from word one towards six thousand. It 560 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: is in leite in expertise. And I remember Diane just 561 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: telling me, you're not going to have a problem with it, 562 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, no, but I think I am though, 563 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: I think I am going to have a problem with it, 564 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: and she said, you know how to tell a story, 565 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: you are going to be fine. I remember that as 566 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: if it was yesterday. I filed it. I think it's 567 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: seventy three d. And you see how I remember these 568 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: numbers because it's a moment. I think we got it 569 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: down to sixty four and I was mad for the 570 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: cuts after thinking I couldn't get there. Like those kind 571 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: of statements are so priceless, Like especially again if you 572 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: come from a background where it doesn't have to necessarily 573 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: even be abusive. Maybe people just thought whatever that you're 574 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: going into isn't a smart idea. Maybe you want to 575 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: be a painter and they want you to be a teacher. 576 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: Maybe you want to join the armed forces and they 577 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: want you to, you know, stay home and work the 578 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: family business. It could be any situation. So when you 579 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: have that person that just co signs your energy, it's priceless. 580 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: So I try to do I do try to give 581 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: that back when I can. Yeah. More from my conversation 582 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: with Danielle after the break. So, how do you think 583 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: that the way that we talk about black women in 584 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: music has changed since you started writing, like across your 585 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: career and how do you think your podcast and the 586 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: book have contributed to that. It's not good the way 587 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: it is now, but it's better, that's for absolutely sure. 588 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: There's more of us. I'm a part of a group 589 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: of women right now, and I think men to writing 590 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: about Black culture and particularly black music in ways that 591 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: hasn't been written about in the past. It just hasn't. 592 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: When I think about what Clover Hope is doing with 593 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: her mother Load about the Black women in hip hop, 594 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: When I think about what Dr Daphne Brooks is doing 595 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: with Line of Notes for Revolution talking about what black 596 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: feminism sounds like. When I think about Donnie Walton, who 597 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: wrote this experimental fiction called The Last Revival of Opal 598 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: and Nev. It's like a fictional piece of journalism about 599 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: this great group that never actually really existed in real life. 600 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: But you definitely walk away feeling like it that duo 601 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: did exist, And so it is different. You have Dream 602 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: Hampton doing the work, and you know, in other ways, 603 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: like the great work she did with documentary around Robert Kelly, 604 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: Joan Morgan's When Chicken Heads Come Home to Ruth is 605 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: still a classic. So a lot of people out here, 606 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: the people that I should name that I'm that aren't 607 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: coming to my head at this moment. But it is better. 608 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: Don't want more, don't want better, but yes, like yes, 609 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm not mentioning Sylvia O. Bell, Kelly Carter. There's a 610 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: lot of people, and I'm just talking about black women 611 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: right now. So it's better, but it's not as good 612 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: as it could be, especially quantity wise. The quality is 613 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 1: there because we're all impassioned. So many of us believe 614 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: in like research and rigor and reporting, and the passion 615 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: is there because a lot of times, I think as 616 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: a journalist of color, you're always being something of an 617 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: advocate and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 618 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 1: I never have, but yeah, I want more. And songbook 619 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: does contribute to the conversation. I think it does. Shine 620 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: Bright is contributing to the conversation. And you know, I 621 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: like to the fact that with with songbook, I'm so 622 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: used to writing and editing, so used to that way 623 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: of doing things, and I do know that I'm really 624 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: good at it. So it's really wonderful to be a 625 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: beginner in audio with Songbook and have to learn. I 626 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: can think of taj Rannie, who's the story consultant on 627 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: Songbook truly, Joseph who used to work with me at ESPN, 628 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: who's the producer of Black Girl Songbook. And I learned 629 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: so much. And I've don't toss that she was an 630 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: interner Vibe I know truly from when she was an 631 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: intern at ys Fancy and defeated. So these women know me. 632 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 1: They inspire me. I feel comfortable being vulnerable around them 633 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 1: and not knowing things. I have to always remind them. 634 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: You could tell me I said something stupid. Hello, if 635 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: it was stupid, say that and they're like it was stupid, 636 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: reel soft. I'm like, that's not how we say it 637 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: was stupid, but you know that part of it is wonderful. 638 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: And then there's other ways that I want to make 639 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: sure that as long as I'm working this hard and 640 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: I do love to work, that I branch out even further. 641 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: I love the page, I love the computer screen, but 642 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: there's other stuff. Mm hmmm. Can you give us a 643 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: sneak peek of the other stuff? Yes, I absolutely can. 644 00:36:51,440 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: Documentaries a shime, right, the documentary similar things. Yeah, it's like, 645 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: come on, let's go. It's like, let's go. These are like, 646 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: these are things that I've been thinking about for years 647 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: and being scared and just been scared scared of what 648 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: not being as good at it as I am at 649 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: other things, leaning into the mean voices of my childhood, 650 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: saying you have enough, nobody's that smart. You can't know 651 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: more than two things at the same time. Those voices 652 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: can get loud still on some days. Yeah, but it's 653 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: lovely too to feel the feedback that I've been receiving 654 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: it so far by shine Bright. And we have legions 655 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: of enthusiastic Black Girl Songbook fans, and I always tell 656 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: people I have been very serious about not saying when 657 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: people send me a note on Twitter or something they 658 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: like an episode or something. Same. Thanks for your support, 659 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: because it isn't support to me as much as it 660 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: is and encouragement. So I try to say that thank 661 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: you for your encouragement when people say a kind thing 662 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: about Shine Bright as well and really about anything, because 663 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: for me, that's how I received it. I appreciate that 664 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: you bought my book. I do, but I even read 665 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: that as encouragement. It is encouragement, it says, Daniel, do 666 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: more go further? Mm hmmm. I like that refrain. It 667 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: feels important. M So what excites you about the ways 668 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: that black women artists specifically are being covered now and 669 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: kind of telling their own stories. That's a big question. 670 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: One thing that I really like, especially coming from the 671 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: magazine world of Yesteryear, is I love the selfies and 672 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: everything that spins off from that. I love the fact 673 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: that so many black women have control of their image 674 00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: in that way. I love that it's not a black 675 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: woman standing passively in front of a photographer who used 676 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: to be usually male and sort of until leaning to 677 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: the left, lean to the right, smile, don't smile, pokey 678 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: boobs out poke a ass out, no poke butt back in, 679 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: put your breast down, coverm up. And I've been that 680 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: person on set and in retrospective feels very controlling of 681 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: the person the subject that we're all gazing at. And 682 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: I remember when selfies first became very popular, so many 683 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: men are more conservative men or even conservative women, acted 684 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: like it was so conceited or vain or silly, just 685 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: like it was when remember when all the girls wearing 686 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 1: the flower crowns, and it was like, why are they 687 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: doing that? It's so silly as so this, that and 688 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: the other. And I pretty much came to a quick 689 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: conclusion that it was revolutionary and I love it. And 690 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: the tendrils go out. It's car do you on the 691 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: cover of Vogue looking like Carding when fifteen years ago 692 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: black women weren't even on the cover of Vogue And 693 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: everyone forgets this. I write about it and shine bright. 694 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: How Beyonce was told at the beginning of her career 695 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: when she said she wanted to be on the cover 696 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: of l or Harper's Bizarre or Vogue, and they were 697 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: just the publicists were telling the truth when they said, 698 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: that's just not a kind of thing that really happens. 699 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: We can try, but it doesn't and then I see 700 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: Cardi or Lupeta on the covers. It's just a matter 701 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: of course looking like themselves. This brings me, It just 702 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: brings me joy. And I'm old enough to look at 703 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: it and say, it just literally did not used to 704 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: be this way. You used to walk by all the 705 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: magazines at the bookstore, are at the grocery store cash 706 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,720 Speaker 1: register where the magazines are, and you would literally unless 707 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: s or Ebony or Vine or Latina, you just wouldn't 708 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: see any black faces. It's one of the reasons I 709 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: got into doing what I do. So to see it 710 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: now when I go by a bookstore that still has 711 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: a magazine, right and I see all the different shapes 712 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: and sizes of black women and women of color on 713 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: the cover of these magazines. Let me tell you the happiness. 714 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: It's not perfect and it's not where it should be, right, 715 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: but it's so much better than it was. Yeah. So 716 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: you talked a little bit about the advice that you 717 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: give to your baby girlfriends. I would love if you 718 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: can share just some general advice for anybody who may 719 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: be checking out the conversation who maybe it is interested 720 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: in getting into the music industry, either as an artist, 721 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: or like a journalist like yourself, What kinds of things 722 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: would you want to share with them. I know we're 723 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: living in pandemic times, and I know all of our 724 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: social lives have been impact. You buy this, but I 725 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 1: think if there's ways to in real life place yourself 726 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: around other people that have similar goals, similar ambition, even 727 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: if their goals are different than yours, so that you 728 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: guys can just vibe together and encourage each other work together. 729 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: You may have you know, a friend that wants to 730 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: be a business manager. You have another friend that wants 731 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: to be photographer. You have another friend who wants to 732 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: be a singer, another friend who wants to be a rapper. 733 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: You have another friend that just wants to make sure 734 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: all the friends get along. Probably the most important friends 735 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: get together wherever. Y'all get together and talk it through, 736 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: have fun, go to shows, support artists that are trying 737 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: to make it, try to get backstage, Say thank you, 738 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: and you'll soon find yourself. Then you can start getting 739 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: invited to things, and then when you're not there, people 740 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: start wondering where you are. Then next thing you know, 741 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: you're getting booked for things. And then when you get 742 00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: booked for something and they say, oh, what do you have? 743 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: Have any photographs? All you have to do is say 744 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: yes even though you don't, because you know you have 745 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: a friend that's a photographer, and try to get that 746 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: money and pay her expenses. Next thing you know, you're 747 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: both getting booked as something like to me, this kind 748 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: of thing still happens and it still works. You don't 749 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: have to be isolated and in the silo. It's risky. Yes, 750 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: somebody might actually say to you, I don't like what 751 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: you're making. I think that's ugly. Why are you doing that? 752 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 1: You should just get a real job. When you have 753 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: the support of your community, you can cry to them 754 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: about that. You could be emotional with them about that 755 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: and keep going. It's my best advice is like, get 756 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,399 Speaker 1: a community around you that just really wants to lift 757 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: you up and support you. On top of that, you 758 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: have to take a hard look at the people that 759 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: are around you already I know I did and still do. 760 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: You have to assess who's bringing goodness into your life. 761 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: And this is just my opinion, but if someone is 762 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: not bringing goodness into your life, if you feel like 763 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: every word out of their mouth, there's a slick comment 764 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: that you. You You can't quite put your finger on that. 765 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: It's a hundred percent insult, but somehow you still feel terrible. 766 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: It just might be time to just maybe loosen those 767 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: bonds a little bit, or don't be like me, because 768 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 1: I'd be cutting people. But I'm just saying, y'all take it. 769 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,359 Speaker 1: And I've and I've learned it to do that though, 770 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: and it's difficult and it's painful for me, but it's 771 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: what works for me. I'm not a gradual type of sister, 772 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: but I think it is better to loosen things slowly 773 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: so that you're sure that you're doing the right thing, 774 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 1: but don't endure pain because you think you ought to 775 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: live your life. That feels very important. It feels like 776 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: great advice for us to considering. Thank you, of course, 777 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: of course I'm not having so much fun with you, honestly, 778 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: that's so so thrilled to be able to chat with 779 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: me today. So where can we grab I copy you 780 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: of Shine Right? And how do we continue to support 781 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: you and stay connected to you for these new exciting 782 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: things that you be premiering. Oh that is such a 783 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: good question. Well, if you want to read Shine Right 784 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: on paper, you can just go to your local bookstore 785 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: walk in. They're gonna be happy to see you going there. 786 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: And even if my book isn't there, which it usually 787 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: is asked for, that always makes me look good. Also, 788 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: you can download it as an audio book and guess 789 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: who's narrating. You can hear more of this little scratchy 790 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: voice that you hear right now, super emotionally and passionately 791 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: reading the shine Bright to you, talking about all of 792 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: your favorite black women stars of today and yesterday. Black 793 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: Girls Songbook is available now, not just on Spotify, but 794 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: any place that you go to listen to your favorite podcast. 795 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: And I'm always at the socials doing the most, doing 796 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: too much and yet not enough. And I'm danimo. I'm 797 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: mostly on I G and Twitter and it's d A 798 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: N A m oh and I'm usually over there post 799 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: and so foolishness. So do join me there too. I 800 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: love it And as an o G relationship goals listener, 801 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: are we are? We listen? Listen. I'm serious when I 802 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: say I've been paying attention. Oh my god, wait till 803 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: I tell Elliott. And You're gonna feel so conceited all day. 804 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 1: You're gonna feel conceited all day? Are we ever gonna 805 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: see any you know, pop up shows from the Relationship 806 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: Goals podcast. You know, we really need to He tries 807 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: to act like just because he has like a fancy 808 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: job and stuff that you don't have time for relationship goals. 809 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: But we really have to get back on. I think 810 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 1: we need to just make it a goal. You know, 811 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: we need to just make it a goal. We usually 812 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: make goals at the top of the year, and like 813 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,279 Speaker 1: so many of us do, and we need to make 814 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: it a goal because people did enjoy it and and 815 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: we had fun doing it. We really was too fools 816 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: together on that show, too rules together. We have to 817 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: take a look at it. I'm glad you asked that. 818 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: That makes me feel really good. I'm taking that right 819 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: to Elliott when I get offer this call. So if 820 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: there's a new season, y'all have me to thank for it. 821 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: If your wife yes, I love it, I love it, 822 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,479 Speaker 1: we would be on there just talking about the most 823 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 1: ridiculous things, every good conversation. Yes, yes, well, thank you, Danielle. 824 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: I'm so again just so thrilled to have this time 825 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: with you and to be able to share about your 826 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: new project. Oh Dr Joe, you are a joy. And 827 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: I know I'm not the first person to say it, 828 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 1: thank you so much, and I know people maybe do 829 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: thank you all the time for the great work that 830 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: you've done and that you continue to do. But I'm 831 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: gonna reiterate that we found our counselor through the work 832 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,839 Speaker 1: that you do, and we are appreciative of you up 833 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: the side of just the way you've made therapy not 834 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 1: seem like a topic that's not to be brought up, 835 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,960 Speaker 1: and all of these things. So it meant so much 836 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 1: to me to receive this invitation. Thank you for having me. 837 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad Daniel was able to share 838 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: her expertise with us today. To grab a copy of 839 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: her book or to check out her podcast, be sure 840 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls 841 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 1: dot com slash session to sixty one, and be sure 842 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: to text two of your girls and tell them to 843 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 1: check out the episode right now. If you're looking for 844 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, be sure to check out 845 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com 846 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,279 Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue dig getting 847 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,240 Speaker 1: into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, 848 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. 849 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet design just for 850 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at Community that Therapy 851 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,160 Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by 852 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 1: Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and editing was done by 853 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all so much for joining 854 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this 855 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take it care