Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week Inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news as it happened. Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim
Speaker 1: Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hey Tim, Hey Carol, So week
Speaker 1: fifty one. I don't know if you've looked at a
Speaker 1: calendar lately, but we are almost a year into it.
Speaker 1: When it comes to a lot of folks still working
Speaker 1: from home, it's unbelievable, but at the same time believable, right,
Speaker 1: considering what a year it's been, right, and we're not
Speaker 1: quite out of the woods, but I do feel like
Speaker 1: we made a lot of progress. Continue to when it
Speaker 1: comes to vaccines. I mean we've now got what three
Speaker 1: in the US, that's right. A lot of vaccine news
Speaker 1: this week, from President Biden saying there will be enough
Speaker 1: vaccine for all Americans by May, to this unusual collaboration
Speaker 1: between those two farmer competitors, Mark working with J and
Speaker 1: Jay to help make that third vaccine that you mentioned. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's so interesting. That was one of the
Speaker 1: important development. It's and I gotta say, in this hour
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week on the weekend, we are all
Speaker 1: in when it comes to COVID in the vaccine. We're
Speaker 1: gonna catch up with the CEO of Northwhile Health his
Speaker 1: thoughts on the rollout of J and J single shot
Speaker 1: vaccine and when we could get back to some sort
Speaker 1: of normal. I'm just gonna say, we're gonna have to
Speaker 1: wait a little bit for that. Plus and the poor
Speaker 1: of the poor community, um, some of them have not
Speaker 1: even received one dose of the vaccine. The founder of
Speaker 1: the Impact Network, Bishop Wayne Jackson, was back with us.
Speaker 1: He talked about the plight and progress being made in
Speaker 1: the Black community tim when it comes to COVID, but
Speaker 1: we also talked about progress our lack thereof when it
Speaker 1: comes to the society at large. Also, I do think
Speaker 1: would be part of the world where a certain amount
Speaker 1: of people were from home permanently JP Morgan Chase Chair
Speaker 1: and CEO Jamie Diamond. In that Bloomberg exclusive on the
Speaker 1: virus getting back to work, he talked about so much more.
Speaker 1: The conversation among the most listened to, watched, and read
Speaker 1: about on the Bloomberg terminal. I gotta say a year
Speaker 1: or after that health scare. He's feeling good. He is
Speaker 1: feeling good. And I've got to say, in our world,
Speaker 1: he's one of those individuals that goes by. We can
Speaker 1: almost just say one name, Jamie. Jamie had some comments
Speaker 1: it's like Madonna or or Beyonce, like in our world
Speaker 1: you talk about Jamie and I was like, you're talking
Speaker 1: about Jamie Diamond. Yeah. Look, And there's a reason it
Speaker 1: was like the most read about interview, the most watched,
Speaker 1: the most listened to, because he had a lot to say.
Speaker 1: He did, he did. It was really a must watch
Speaker 1: and a must listen. All Right, all of that to come.
Speaker 1: We gotta begin, though, tim with this week's cover story.
Speaker 1: It is inside Fightser's fast, fraud and lucrative vaccine distribution listen.
Speaker 1: Fister is a company that has been hailed as a hero,
Speaker 1: but it's making entire countries pretty angry. The story written
Speaker 1: by Stephanie Baker, Cynthia Coons, and Vernon Silver. Stephanie, a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News financial investigations writer, joined us along with Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week editor Joe Webber for a deep dive into
Speaker 1: the deep dive. I think the fighter um shot and
Speaker 1: vaccine is one of the biggest success stories ever. Frankly,
Speaker 1: I mean, like, to go from a pandemic to a
Speaker 1: vaccine in a year is is a wonder and we've
Speaker 1: we've written about that. But what we hadn't ever explored
Speaker 1: UM and with Stephanie and her co author Cynthia drove
Speaker 1: into in this story is is sort of behind the
Speaker 1: scenes UM logistics and distribution challenges and and also keep
Speaker 1: in mind here like the Fighter is a publicly traded
Speaker 1: company that did not take money from the government and
Speaker 1: because of that, they didn't have any strings on on
Speaker 1: how they went about even pricing that, and that I
Speaker 1: thought was a really interesting angle, uh and one that
Speaker 1: you know, speaks to also just the legacy of what
Speaker 1: we know about the pharmaceutical industry, which pricing has always
Speaker 1: been UM an issue with and it was actually the
Speaker 1: issue that m Albert Borla, who's the CEO of Fightser,
Speaker 1: was expecting to deal with when he took over the
Speaker 1: job at Fighter a year before the pandemic happened. So
Speaker 1: so Stephanielle, I just want to turn it over to
Speaker 1: you because I thought so much of the reporting in
Speaker 1: this was was spot on and really interesting and tell
Speaker 1: us how does FISER going to go about deciding who
Speaker 1: gets the vaccine? Well, you know, it's a pretty opaque
Speaker 1: process still despite all our digging, I think it is
Speaker 1: a mix of your place in the queue, when did
Speaker 1: you get your order in your order size, production, forecast
Speaker 1: calls from world leaders. Um. You know, we went into
Speaker 1: detail about how Israel managed to get its hands on
Speaker 1: so many doses. And as you know, Israel is a
Speaker 1: world leader in terms of vaccination rates and that is
Speaker 1: thanks to Fiser because they are almost exclusively using FISER
Speaker 1: so their vaccination campaign and UH Israel's Prime Minister of
Speaker 1: Benjamin Netanyah, who spoke to UH FISER CEO Albert Bola
Speaker 1: more than twenty times. Um uh. And you know one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why Israel got priority access was well
Speaker 1: a paid more paid about thirty dollars ago, about more
Speaker 1: than the US did. And be it Um offered to
Speaker 1: use Israel as a real world keep study for how
Speaker 1: effective the vaccine is, and that has UM generated a
Speaker 1: stream of positive headlines about how effective the Fiser vaccine is. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, Israel was vaccinating sixteen to eighteen year olds
Speaker 1: at a time when Europe was still waiting to vaccinate
Speaker 1: eight year olds. And that's kind of what we went
Speaker 1: into is how did that happen? Um, why was Europe
Speaker 1: so behind in terms of Fiser's distribution, and and why
Speaker 1: did Israel pull ahead? And really came down to these
Speaker 1: few things. Uh, the EU European Union of course was
Speaker 1: late took place their order. That was one factor. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, Israel obviously offered a very unique opportunity for
Speaker 1: the company to showcase how great their vaccine is. Align
Speaker 1: in that story really stood out to me. It was
Speaker 1: a vaccine distribution still has the feel of a zero
Speaker 1: sum game. It feels like that kind of everywhere, right
Speaker 1: if if if you hear about somebody kind of cutting
Speaker 1: in line for a vaccine, you know, they're taking a
Speaker 1: vaccine from somebody who may need it more than them. Yeah, exactly. Listen,
Speaker 1: this is a story that for me answered so many
Speaker 1: questions that I've had about the vaccine rollout. It's a
Speaker 1: must read and you can find that story at Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com, Slash business Week on the Bloomberg terminal, and
Speaker 1: of course the cover story of the magazine, which is
Speaker 1: on newsstands as we speak. That was Bloomberg News Financial
Speaker 1: investigations writer Stephanie Baker along with Bloomberg Business Week editor
Speaker 1: Joe Weber, and coming up, we're gonna stay with the coronavirus.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk to the CEO of the healthcare
Speaker 1: provider who saw the first COVID case in the US
Speaker 1: and also administered the first vaccine in the US. His
Speaker 1: thoughts on getting back to normal, Well, all we gotta
Speaker 1: say is we're gonna be patient. YEA. Indeed, this stood
Speaker 1: out for us when we talked with him. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week, and this is Bloomberg. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business This Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. So Tim, no shorter
Speaker 1: devirus headlines this week. I mean, listen, it's a normal week.
Speaker 1: There's a lot in COVID, there's a lot on the vaccine. A. Well,
Speaker 1: you heard from Dr Anthony Fauci, as we do each
Speaker 1: and every week. It seems like he said it's quote
Speaker 1: quite reasonable to see some degree of normalcy by fall. Carol, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I feel like one of the big stories this
Speaker 1: week was the Johnson and Johnson. Now it's a third
Speaker 1: vaccine for the US. It's getting rolled out. We heard
Speaker 1: President Biden talk about it and specifically talking about Merk
Speaker 1: and Jay and Jay. Listen, these are two competitors in
Speaker 1: the big farmer world. They're going to work together to
Speaker 1: ramp up production of Jane Jay's vaccine. With all this
Speaker 1: news happening, we welcome back Michael Dowling. He's president CEO
Speaker 1: at north While Health. They are, to him, the largest
Speaker 1: healthcare provider and private employer in New York State. Look,
Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons we really like to
Speaker 1: talk to Michael Dowling is the organization has to team
Speaker 1: big footprint. It's always nice to kind of see it
Speaker 1: as some sort of barometer for how we're doing in
Speaker 1: New York. The virus itself, the numbers of decreasing. I
Speaker 1: now have about nine hundred COVID patients about three weeks
Speaker 1: ago at four so the number is dropping and the
Speaker 1: positivity in the region is dropping. So the signs are
Speaker 1: all good. And the new gene vaccine, of course, is
Speaker 1: a huge, huge step forward, and we're expecting but I
Speaker 1: have been told that we may get some of the
Speaker 1: vaccine later this week. The state is going to get
Speaker 1: a couple hundred thousands more doses each week from now on,
Speaker 1: So that just increases the supply. Because the supply has
Speaker 1: been the biggest issue over the last number of weeks
Speaker 1: and months. M the infrastructure is there to do the vaccination,
Speaker 1: the supply has been the problem. And with j is
Speaker 1: a one dose vaccine, it is just an unbelievable step forward.
Speaker 1: How do you determine if you let's say you have
Speaker 1: because you've already been administering vaccine, Michael, If if you
Speaker 1: do have let's say a Fiser vaccine and the Derna
Speaker 1: vaccine and j J vaccine, how determine who gets what vaccine? Well,
Speaker 1: that's criteria that are being developed, which we're getting about
Speaker 1: what the priorities are for for the for the j
Speaker 1: J vaccine, I think it's for people over age six
Speaker 1: or five. I think it's for the younger people would
Speaker 1: be a priority at the beginning, anybody from I believe
Speaker 1: a eighteen to six to sixty five. But I haven't
Speaker 1: seen the definitive final recommendations yet from CC from the CDC,
Speaker 1: but we're wit that will wait for that directive from
Speaker 1: both the state and the CDC. But whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it means more more shots in Tiber's arms. That's the
Speaker 1: ultimate right now, but there will be it sounds like
Speaker 1: um specifications for each of the vaccine ultimately. Is that
Speaker 1: fair to say, Michael, Well, I think it will become
Speaker 1: more genetical of a time. I think at the beginning,
Speaker 1: I think there'd be more prioritization. My guess is that
Speaker 1: for people, you know, the older worlder population might meet
Speaker 1: had the preference for the five Madam and in being
Speaker 1: or population for the J and J. But but I
Speaker 1: do think people there are so many people climbing for
Speaker 1: a vaccine that once you have the once you have
Speaker 1: to supply whatever vaccine, people will want to take it. Right.
Speaker 1: I know J vaccine is still still seventy two efficacy,
Speaker 1: which is phenomenal. It's great, right exactly. What's interesting now, Michael,
Speaker 1: and listen, I don't want to be like, you know,
Speaker 1: Tim and I joke were like I'll take anyone right now. Um.
Speaker 1: But complicating matters is j J is also testing a
Speaker 1: two shot version of the vaccine, So it does suggest
Speaker 1: that it thinks adding a second shot could improve protection.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where the public gets a little nervous.
Speaker 1: You're a medical professional, you're working within this. How should
Speaker 1: we read something like that. Well, I would say, if,
Speaker 1: for example, the one dose vaccine gives you gives you
Speaker 1: the seventy seventy percent efficacy and it protects against severe
Speaker 1: illness and this of cases, and it gives you eighty
Speaker 1: six percent efficacy and regard, I think that's a win.
Speaker 1: What you really want is to protect people from getting
Speaker 1: really sick and to protect me from getting into the hospital.
Speaker 1: So if you have a vaccine, just like the flu vaccine,
Speaker 1: doesn't protect the university across the board, but it does
Speaker 1: prevent you from getting really seriously ill, So it's a win.
Speaker 1: They have to be prevented from a severe illness and
Speaker 1: keeping out of the hospital, and if any of the
Speaker 1: vaccines do that, um, then I think that's again a
Speaker 1: win win for the public. I do wonder to what
Speaker 1: extent of the general public is focused on that number
Speaker 1: S versus when it comes to m R and a
Speaker 1: go ahead. I honestly don't think that they've spent Anne.
Speaker 1: There's some will that be an awful lot of attention,
Speaker 1: but I think most people from when I am when
Speaker 1: I'm out there, they just want a vaccine. Well, can
Speaker 1: I just tell you that I want to be sure
Speaker 1: that they don't really get sick Michael. February survey found
Speaker 1: only seven percent of people wanted a single dose vaccine,
Speaker 1: compared with fifty percent who said they preferred to dose series.
Speaker 1: This was um a presentation to the Centers for Disease
Speaker 1: Control um and and some others. So you know, we've
Speaker 1: learned so much about creating a vaccine and about efficacy,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, a little bit of knowledge
Speaker 1: can be dangerous, yes, and you know you know the
Speaker 1: recently and I'll always it as spozemic, and even I
Speaker 1: think fies are basically indicating if I'm correct, that you
Speaker 1: know that there is weird protection even with the one dolls,
Speaker 1: even though we're giving two doses. I can tell you
Speaker 1: if you want to expand the vaccination to the public
Speaker 1: and Gennel, of just giving one dolls across the board,
Speaker 1: it just makes life so much easier. We can do
Speaker 1: so much more and it will be a lot better
Speaker 1: having everybody having a se protection against illness instead of
Speaker 1: having a small number having So when you look out
Speaker 1: at the next few months, at the next six months,
Speaker 1: at the rest of the year, how do you see
Speaker 1: our world reopening. What's the timeline that you're thinking about.
Speaker 1: I think God that it will be a slow process,
Speaker 1: be incremental. I think will be in a pretty good
Speaker 1: situation by October November, is my guess. Once we get
Speaker 1: everybody vaccinated, hopefully by July August. You should see Tim's face.
Speaker 1: You should us. But but I think we've got to
Speaker 1: be a little bit practical here, because we're going to
Speaker 1: be different. The econime is going to come back in
Speaker 1: a different way. The use of technology and the changing
Speaker 1: nature of work that has evolved as a result of
Speaker 1: COVID is going to make everything different. People now realize
Speaker 1: that they don't have to be coming to the office
Speaker 1: every day to be effective and productive, that they can
Speaker 1: be working remotely. And that's going to affect every business,
Speaker 1: that's just health care, about every single business. And I
Speaker 1: do think the economic implications of COVID that businesses that
Speaker 1: are will be less robust. Now I want some business
Speaker 1: is not coming back at all. That the economic implications
Speaker 1: of COVID, I think will even be more difficult and
Speaker 1: more long term than actually dealing with COVID itself. We
Speaker 1: had a big crisis for the past world months. By
Speaker 1: the way, the first COVID case that we received that
Speaker 1: Northwell was a year ago. We've seen a hundred and
Speaker 1: six CORVID patients since that time. Um, so we'll have
Speaker 1: to be patient to you. The economy will stop to
Speaker 1: come back, and I think by the end of the
Speaker 1: year we will be doing will be in a pretty
Speaker 1: good place. I believe, well, we can certainly hope. So
Speaker 1: that was Michael Dowling, President and CEO at north Well Health.
Speaker 1: Mike is also the author of Leading Through a Pandemic
Speaker 1: and he also has a new book out. It's a memoir.
Speaker 1: It's called After the Roof Caved in an immigrants journey
Speaker 1: from Ireland to America. We talked all about it in
Speaker 1: our interview. You can hear the full one on our
Speaker 1: podcast feed. Sweet story has come a long way. It's
Speaker 1: it's an amazing story. Is yeah. I love that still ahead.
Speaker 1: We've been talking about vaccines rolling out, but still got
Speaker 1: to say not equally. We know that that our community
Speaker 1: are the ones who were impact the most in a
Speaker 1: negative way. And here's a Black History Month. The founder
Speaker 1: of the Impact Network Shopwayne Jackson, on issues with getting
Speaker 1: shots to African Americans. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the
Speaker 1: World Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one, to San Francisco,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM Chado one
Speaker 1: nine team, and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: Carol a story on the Bloomberg this Week talking all
Speaker 1: about how more than two months into the vaccine rollout
Speaker 1: here in the US, many communities of color have yet
Speaker 1: to even receive their first doses of the vaccine. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: this has been a problem that's been plaguing since the
Speaker 1: vaccine started being distributed, and it's a reminder of the
Speaker 1: inequalities that really still exists. Someone who has seen those
Speaker 1: disparities all too well, Bishop Wayne T. Jackson. He's founder
Speaker 1: and CEO of the Impact Network. It's a privately owned
Speaker 1: African American inspirational TV at work. They've got some ninety
Speaker 1: million in terms of their audience across the U S.
Speaker 1: You can see it on a lot of the the
Speaker 1: cable and satellite TVs. Now. Bishop Jackson joined us to
Speaker 1: talk about the progress and struggles that African Americans continue
Speaker 1: to experience, whether it's COVID or really the world generally,
Speaker 1: and the poors of the pours of community. Um some
Speaker 1: of them have not even received one dose of the vaccine.
Speaker 1: And we know that that our community are the ones
Speaker 1: who are impacted the most in the negative way. And
Speaker 1: it just goes back to a lot of times people
Speaker 1: don't understand or what African Americans have to go to
Speaker 1: just based on who who we are and how we
Speaker 1: had to be kidnapped, our forefathers kidnapped from Africa, brought
Speaker 1: up the air script of their names and was you know,
Speaker 1: made to do free labor and then kept back from
Speaker 1: being educated and then put a name on so degrading.
Speaker 1: And then when you look at things, you see, well,
Speaker 1: well you know they're being out anger this and that.
Speaker 1: You know, if you walked into the shoes of a
Speaker 1: lot of African Americans, especially when it comes to the
Speaker 1: opportunity as being entrepreneurs, whatever, you you know you would
Speaker 1: feel the same way. But you can't be in that
Speaker 1: mode because it's not going to do you any good,
Speaker 1: but you have to get up and you have to fight,
Speaker 1: and you have to fight for what's right and and
Speaker 1: make sure that we are hurt. And I really believe that,
Speaker 1: you know, even your report before I got on it
Speaker 1: just showed you that's just how it is. Why is
Speaker 1: it still just how it is? Well, because the people
Speaker 1: at the top, you know, refused to make changes and
Speaker 1: because they want to have the status quo. And we
Speaker 1: just need to make sure that we're able. You know
Speaker 1: what you're reporting, the Bloomberg reported about, you know, what's
Speaker 1: writing was wrong. I really believe that the changes have
Speaker 1: to come from the top down. I'm hoping that, I'm
Speaker 1: fran Carol, that we see this new administration, uh and
Speaker 1: I know of the president head as you know, being
Speaker 1: very focused on of the disenfranchise and even with the
Speaker 1: African American people of color community to at least, you know,
Speaker 1: give us an opportunity to to to be able to
Speaker 1: help live the American dreams. You know. My car host
Speaker 1: Tim Stantovic, you know, reminded me when we were watching
Speaker 1: President Biden. He was talking about um the latest on
Speaker 1: the vaccine. When we saw the fifty million individual in
Speaker 1: the US get the vaccine, and he talked specifically about
Speaker 1: working with the private sector and educating the public on
Speaker 1: face masks and vaccination, but he also talked about a
Speaker 1: new initiative that they were launching with private sector companies
Speaker 1: asking them to encourage workers as well, and also about
Speaker 1: reaching out to community leaders to reach segments of the
Speaker 1: population that maybe aren't thinking about getting the vaccine or
Speaker 1: don't want to or nervous about it, and understandably so,
Speaker 1: especially within the black community. Have you been approached, um
Speaker 1: by anyone in the administration or by political leaders to
Speaker 1: help with this? Oh? Yes, we have U my effect
Speaker 1: our Mayor Mary Duggan of Mayor of Detroit. UM, some
Speaker 1: office reached out to us myself, our ministry. We have
Speaker 1: a very large ministry that here in the city of Detroit. Uh.
Speaker 1: I guess above maybe a hundred dollar square a seat
Speaker 1: of space that we can help the community in And
Speaker 1: what we're doing working with the Mayor's office. Uh, we're
Speaker 1: bringing in seniors and we're bringing in those who would
Speaker 1: normally not even go to maybe a public place, but
Speaker 1: they will take and have more confidence to go to
Speaker 1: a place they're familiar with, like a church in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood and so forth for song and we're doing um
Speaker 1: this we start in March twentieth, uh to just use
Speaker 1: our facility to be able to bring people in and
Speaker 1: get them vaccinated. I believe that what we all need
Speaker 1: to do, we have to do this together. And I
Speaker 1: believe that first of all, African American has got to
Speaker 1: make sure that we ended up and understand we can't
Speaker 1: wait for government to someone else to help. Also our
Speaker 1: cooperations and our government we need to look down on
Speaker 1: the African American community and and be able to work
Speaker 1: with us and to be able to give us the
Speaker 1: tools that we especially finances. Uh, you know, we we
Speaker 1: don't have the finances to do what we need to do.
Speaker 1: And it's just working to give you know, tim access
Speaker 1: to the financial system. How many times do we have
Speaker 1: a conversation with someone where we talk about this. It's
Speaker 1: not equal access in terms of certainly when it comes
Speaker 1: to black and brown communities being able to really tap
Speaker 1: into the financial infrastructure here in the United States. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked about it a lot. The fact there are
Speaker 1: so many unbanked and underbanked Americans and look, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of startups working on this right now, but
Speaker 1: a group of people who has largely been ignored by
Speaker 1: the big financial institutions. Yeah, and Bishop Wayne Jackson addressing
Speaker 1: that he's founder and CEO of the Impact Network. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week up next, a big interview
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg this week. They are huge week assisted the
Speaker 1: zoom world. JP Morgan chases Jamie Diamond working from home.
Speaker 1: He weighs in on that and more. You're going to
Speaker 1: be talking about this with your friends, your family, you
Speaker 1: name it, all week in long. This is Bloomberg. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes. Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio got him, without
Speaker 1: a doubt, the big interview of the week at Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: It was all over the Bloomberg online, of Bloomberg dot com,
Speaker 1: on TV radio, it was on quick Take. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was and look Ed Hammond covered everything with Jamie Diamond,
Speaker 1: CEO and chair of JP Morgan chase preparing for intensified competition,
Speaker 1: the growth of fintech competition, you name it, they talked
Speaker 1: about it. It was an exclusive interview. And so joining
Speaker 1: us right now is Ed Hammond to talk to us
Speaker 1: about the conversation. First of all, the visual on it ed.
Speaker 1: I mean you were in person with Jamie Diamond. I was,
Speaker 1: and look at a lot of cue. Loss needs to
Speaker 1: go to the production team because they set up the
Speaker 1: most beautiful shot where you had I think the cries
Speaker 1: are building out of Jamie's window and the Empire stayed
Speaker 1: building out of my window, which you know, it's pretty
Speaker 1: unbeatable in terms of a backdrop. Um, and yeah, it
Speaker 1: was my first in person one on one. I think
Speaker 1: pretty much for a whole year, I've been hold up
Speaker 1: in California from March to December doing a lot of
Speaker 1: down the lines and a lot of you know, over
Speaker 1: zoom interviews, which are fine and we're all used to
Speaker 1: them now, but they don't have the same chemistry that
Speaker 1: you get in person. You you lose a lot of
Speaker 1: that sort of connectivity you get with the guests. So
Speaker 1: it was lovely to be back doing something one on
Speaker 1: one in person and in New York. So this was
Speaker 1: a long conversation. It was fantastic. We went over some
Speaker 1: of the things that you covered. What was your big takeaway? Um, well,
Speaker 1: there are a few. As you say to him, it
Speaker 1: was a long conversation, very generously, um, you know, time
Speaker 1: from Jamie's point of view, and look, I think one
Speaker 1: of the things that really stood out to me is
Speaker 1: this this threat that he sees coming from, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's the financial technology companies, whether it is the
Speaker 1: traditional technology companies, or indeed, whether it's the likes of
Speaker 1: Walmart and are going long into banking. And he's very
Speaker 1: very cognizant of that and the need for big banks
Speaker 1: like JP Morgan to adapt to meet that threat head on.
Speaker 1: What was interesting from the conversation, and I think quite new,
Speaker 1: was you know, he talked about his willingness to basically
Speaker 1: spend their way out of this, whether it's through going
Speaker 1: and doing a large acquisition, where through building out you know,
Speaker 1: more partnerships. But he was very clear that he will
Speaker 1: spend what it takes. And they're looking at everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: I asked him about a couple of the really big
Speaker 1: players in financial technology, Stripe and Agin, and he said
Speaker 1: it's I think the quote was, it's safe to assume
Speaker 1: we look at all these companies. It is a great conversation.
Speaker 1: We want to bring it to our audience, our listeners.
Speaker 1: Here is Bloomberg News deal reporter Ed Hammond, speaking exclusively
Speaker 1: with Jamie Diamond, JP Morgan Chase Bank Chairman and CEO
Speaker 1: Fintech has done, or at least as partly responsible for.
Speaker 1: Is this sort of democratization of investing. Obviously, the rise
Speaker 1: of the retail trader, the reddit, crowd, roaring kitty, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, is creating this narrative at
Speaker 1: the moment of David v. Goliath. Now as a very
Speaker 1: prominent goliath, do the David's have a point? Is the
Speaker 1: system right god very stage in every bullmark that has
Speaker 1: happened in my life, so that this is not a
Speaker 1: new phenomenon. And I do believe that people should learn
Speaker 1: to invest their money, but they do the homework. I
Speaker 1: mean thinking you go on and just gamble and play
Speaker 1: that that doesn't have a long term success record. And
Speaker 1: so but to the extent that people are learning and
Speaker 1: they getting involved, so that's a good thing. So first
Speaker 1: something it's gonna end badly and for some of the
Speaker 1: primed up well, but the best investors learn over a
Speaker 1: long period of time how to be a good investor,
Speaker 1: just like the best tennis players, the best boxers, the
Speaker 1: best media folks. The notion that you can be great
Speaker 1: at it because you um, I remember my daughter made
Speaker 1: a first investment. It went up, and I think myself,
Speaker 1: oh god, it would be far better had it gone down.
Speaker 1: You learn, you learn a little bit more that way. Sometimes.
Speaker 1: One of the industry that obviously has been savage to
Speaker 1: some extent recently is it's the short selling hedge fronds.
Speaker 1: Do you think that industry is in crisis because of
Speaker 1: this effect we're saying what it's phenomena of the retail trader?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. The retail training in dollars is the teeny
Speaker 1: that when you're talking about the teeny, weing a little
Speaker 1: bit of market. The market is global. I mean something
Speaker 1: like ten trillion dollars is bot and solved every single day.
Speaker 1: And when we say investors into my retail investors, pension plans,
Speaker 1: hedge funds, money managers, individuals. I've been buying selling stocks.
Speaker 1: I've been twelve or thirteen, So I believe in that.
Speaker 1: But my dad told me how to read a balance
Speaker 1: sheet when I was thirteen. There wasn't just you know,
Speaker 1: maybe I was guessing a little bit, but uh but
Speaker 1: I look, it opens it up. But no, there there
Speaker 1: are legitimate complaints about short selling, more around transparency and
Speaker 1: the duplication of vote, of the ability to short seller stock.
Speaker 1: They're legitimate issues around all these things that you know,
Speaker 1: if if the regular is gonna be looking at paying
Speaker 1: forward to flow, high figurency, trading, UH, disclosure about ownership, voting,
Speaker 1: short sine, those are good things and you know, to me,
Speaker 1: should people be able to pay for it to flow?
Speaker 1: I think payment for the flow is a very complex subject.
Speaker 1: I think there should be much maybe, but if you
Speaker 1: much strict rules about what you mean by that, it's
Speaker 1: not clear to me that everyone does the same payment
Speaker 1: for the flow. So if if I if I'm paying
Speaker 1: a lot more to someone else or keep a lot
Speaker 1: more for myself, you probably have the right to know.
Speaker 1: And there's certain disclosures they're not very good. Moving on
Speaker 1: to the I guess the biggest question in finance right now,
Speaker 1: which is is a stimulus enough? Is it too much?
Speaker 1: Even the intervention is constant to agree on this point.
Speaker 1: You have Larry Summers on the one side saying and
Speaker 1: af already, you have Johnny Ellen, J Power and others
Speaker 1: on the other saying more is needed. What do you
Speaker 1: think so getting through COVID is absolutely critical and we're
Speaker 1: still in it though God knows what looks like there's
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel, you know, by
Speaker 1: the beginning of summer or something like that. But it's
Speaker 1: not a binary subject. I think, you know, Democrats Republicans
Speaker 1: are like ships passing the night. There are legitimate complaints
Speaker 1: about stuff from this bill. Has nothing to do with COVID.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people suffering. You need help.
Speaker 1: Both are true. So if you want to go through,
Speaker 1: you go through all the detail. Unemployed they definitely need help.
Speaker 1: Small businesses they definitely need help. People at the lower end,
Speaker 1: they definitely need help. Women who had to go home,
Speaker 1: who basically stopped working. Is that it go take care
Speaker 1: or something like that. They definitely need help. You know,
Speaker 1: does every I don't know if you know this, but
Speaker 1: like half the states revenues went up, they didn't go down.
Speaker 1: Do they need help? You know? And we're just throwing
Speaker 1: money at people at one point, so and there will
Speaker 1: be another side to that mountain. So they should be
Speaker 1: cautious about overdoing it. Get us through the problem, get
Speaker 1: the country growing, but you know, don't try not to
Speaker 1: overdo it too much. But isn't the risk exactly that
Speaker 1: if you have places and states people that don't need
Speaker 1: help and getting to help you overflooped the system, you
Speaker 1: do create this huge risk of inflation. And the system
Speaker 1: already has a little bit of that. So if you
Speaker 1: look at which in the system, it looks to us
Speaker 1: like there's a trillion dollars or trillon this unspent. That's
Speaker 1: before there's billion nine, trillion nine, So there will be money.
Speaker 1: Like you know, there's a very good chance gonna have
Speaker 1: a game buster economy for the rest of this year
Speaker 1: and you know, easily into two. And the question is
Speaker 1: does that overheat everything? And we just don't know yet.
Speaker 1: But I would put that on the things to worry about.
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I
Speaker 1: would worry more about COVID and nuclear war that I'd
Speaker 1: worry about that, but I would. I would suspect it's
Speaker 1: a pretty good chance you' gonna see rais going up,
Speaker 1: and you know, people starting to worry about that at
Speaker 1: one point. Let's talk about COVID for a second. I've
Speaker 1: been very clear I would not buy ten year treasuries
Speaker 1: just so you know, um on on COVID, we are
Speaker 1: obviously doing the interview in person, which is fantastic with
Speaker 1: doing it in your offices here in New York, but
Speaker 1: still largely empty as of my officers, as probably are
Speaker 1: a lot of people's offices. How important is it to
Speaker 1: a business light to people going to actually have people
Speaker 1: physically coming back to work. It's very important. I mean,
Speaker 1: I look, I do think would be part of the
Speaker 1: world where a certain amount of people work from home
Speaker 1: permanently certain sales, certain options, so you can track the productivity,
Speaker 1: et cetera. I think there'll be a large portion who
Speaker 1: permanly work in the office. Think of our branches, cash management,
Speaker 1: probably most the trading floors, etcetera. There'll be some hybrids
Speaker 1: where you spend two days two weeks at home and
Speaker 1: two weeks in the officer, three weeks at home, a
Speaker 1: week in the office, or three days and two days
Speaker 1: and two days three days. But so I think it
Speaker 1: will reduce the need for commercial real estate. But there
Speaker 1: are huge weaknesses to the zoom world. I mean, most
Speaker 1: of us learned by an apprenticeship system, by you know,
Speaker 1: seeing mistakes, going to trips. How do you handle a client,
Speaker 1: how do you handle the problem. So it's hard to
Speaker 1: inculcate culture and character and all those things. When you
Speaker 1: have the zoom world spontaneous combustion, it goes away. Hard
Speaker 1: to manage, you know, it's hard to be very critically.
Speaker 1: Got fifteen people on the screen, so before it was
Speaker 1: like a deep dive question, now looks a little bit rude.
Speaker 1: That was Jamie Diamond, JP Morgan, Chase Bank CEO and Chairman,
Speaker 1: talking exclusively with Bloomberg News Deal reporter Ed Hammond. It's
Speaker 1: a great conversation. It's part of the conversation. So if
Speaker 1: you want to hear or watch all of it, check
Speaker 1: it out at Bloomberg dot com on the Bloomberg terminal.
Speaker 1: You can hear it, watch it, all that good stuff.
Speaker 1: One thing that was really important to Jamie has had
Speaker 1: some health scares. Um I know you talked about that
Speaker 1: with him. Yeah, we did right at the top. I
Speaker 1: think it's it was pretty much to the day since
Speaker 1: he suffered a very major health scare. He had a
Speaker 1: torney utter and was rushed to hospital um and and
Speaker 1: luckily had it fixed and has been able to return
Speaker 1: to work. He said he's feeling good, he's back exercising,
Speaker 1: he's you know, been in the office, I think most
Speaker 1: days since the summer um. But yeah, it was obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, it was great to hear that from him,
Speaker 1: and a nice, hopefully a nice way to mark the
Speaker 1: one year anniversary. And when when you do an interview
Speaker 1: like this and you preps so much, you go in
Speaker 1: sort of trying to anticipate what the subject is is
Speaker 1: going to say. I imagine, Um, I'm wondering if if
Speaker 1: any of his comments were different than what you expected. Well,
Speaker 1: I tended to say, I'm so smart that I just
Speaker 1: did it on the fire. But that was the extremely
Speaker 1: honest I did prep a lot um and I did,
Speaker 1: as you rightly say, try and anticipate to some extent
Speaker 1: how he might respond. I think there are a couple
Speaker 1: of things that stood out to me. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: the one was when we talked about SPACs, which have
Speaker 1: been a very very hot ticket this year. Obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: a new special purpose axisition company seems to get launched
Speaker 1: every day. Uh, And I asked him pretty candidly, you
Speaker 1: know why JP Moregan are doing pretty badly in the
Speaker 1: SPAC space. The number one in M and A globally
Speaker 1: this year. Today they're pretty much number one in I
Speaker 1: P o S and I think in Spects are barely
Speaker 1: breaking the top ten. Well, listen, it's a great interview,
Speaker 1: um Ed, and thank you so much for spending some
Speaker 1: time with us to talk about it. Bloomberg News Deal
Speaker 1: reporter Ed Hammond speaking exclusively with JP Morgan, Chase Bank
Speaker 1: Chairman and CEO Jamie Diamond. Check it out at Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com and thank you. That ups up the first
Speaker 1: time over the weekend edition to Bloomberg Business Week from
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanabeck Moore
Speaker 1: ahead in our next hour, including Jamie Diamond, just talking
Speaker 1: about working from home. We're going to have more on that,
Speaker 1: including companies moving towards a four day work week. Carol,
Speaker 1: this sounds nice. Crossing my finger. Yeah, it's happening, but
Speaker 1: you know what, don't hold your breath. Not happening for us,
Speaker 1: our plass. And keeping with that, one commer still in
Speaker 1: residential real estate investor doing a deep dive on how
Speaker 1: hybrid working could impact the U. S Coasts, and the
Speaker 1: former CFO of Impossible Foods moved on and is now
Speaker 1: president of app Harvest. It's an indoor green tech farming venture.
Speaker 1: It went public using a spack. I gotta say, if
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing this, I'd like to be working for
Speaker 1: app Harvest. Also Michael Moe, he's an investor in some
Speaker 1: of the best known tech companies. On fixing some of
Speaker 1: the biggest issues plaguing our economy. All that and more
Speaker 1: to come. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's
Speaker 1: most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech
Speaker 1: news As it happened. Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hi,
Speaker 1: I am Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovic. Clanny ahead
Speaker 1: in our second hour of the weekend into in a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, including It's the beginning to happen a
Speaker 1: little bit by the president of SUIG Equity says real
Speaker 1: estate it's rebounding plus indoor farming. Kind of makes sense
Speaker 1: that the former CFO of Impossible Foods just working on this.
Speaker 1: You're right, Tim, We're talking about David Lee, former CFO
Speaker 1: and former CEO of Impossible Foods. Now the president of
Speaker 1: APT harvest Harvest looking for a way to change how
Speaker 1: we produce food, startup tech investor Michael mo looking for
Speaker 1: a way to do capitalism better. First up, though a
Speaker 1: couple of stories in the magazine this week by Bloomberg News.
Speaker 1: This was a lot of fun. We caught up tim
Speaker 1: with German business reporter at Stefan Nicola. One story was
Speaker 1: on Tesla needing to tap Europe's corporate car market. The
Speaker 1: other story, well, it's shut up and stayed at the
Speaker 1: top of the most read on the Bloomberg. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense. I mean, it's about the four
Speaker 1: day work week gaining popularity without costing productivity. And that's
Speaker 1: where we started with Stefan who was in Berlin, and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber, who joined us from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: ABN is a Berlin based tech company that when went
Speaker 1: into lockdown last year, it realized that its employees stuffered
Speaker 1: from stress, and it gave employees half of Friday off
Speaker 1: U two sort of ease into the weekend. And that
Speaker 1: experiment went so well sales, employee engagement, and clients satisfaction
Speaker 1: all rose that in January even decided to go a
Speaker 1: step further and they rolled out a full day week
Speaker 1: for the entire company with no cuts and salaries of benefits,
Speaker 1: and the CEO says, it's working really well. Joe Webber,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, all right, signed me up Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: nitor Tooe Webber's here on the Access Land in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: I feel like, as we're all thinking about Joel getting
Speaker 1: back to work post pandemic, we're trying to figure out
Speaker 1: is it a hybrid? Are we working from home? Are
Speaker 1: we going to the office? What is it? Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, more importantly, like if you're going to do
Speaker 1: a four day work week, which which day you excise
Speaker 1: from that work week? Friday is the obvious choice, but
Speaker 1: like Monday, there's that. Wednesday was like the out of
Speaker 1: the box. When that, a colleague said, like, what why
Speaker 1: bother with Wednesday? So, but but seven. The thing that
Speaker 1: I thought was most interesting about this is like, even
Speaker 1: if you lop off a day, whichever day of the
Speaker 1: week it happens to be, it doesn't seem to affect productivity.
Speaker 1: What did we learn about that? Yeah, so there are
Speaker 1: studies out there that productivity isn't dropping in some cases, um,
Speaker 1: we are seeing increased productivity even and the CEO of
Speaker 1: the company told me he saw the same. He said
Speaker 1: that employees find ways to work smarter and not less,
Speaker 1: but smarter and that's just as productive and and just um,
Speaker 1: going back to the Monday, Wednesday, Friday discussion, he said
Speaker 1: that Friday's are the most popular days to take off,
Speaker 1: followed by Monday and then actually Wednesday, as you suggest,
Speaker 1: because it gives people a nice break in the middle
Speaker 1: of the week and they can restart recharged. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say Fridays I like because that's alway sometimes have
Speaker 1: a wine guest and we can drink wine on here.
Speaker 1: So I'm not getting rid of Friday. Let's get rid
Speaker 1: of money. Nobody says, give a case of the Fridays.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm wondering though, are we still productive
Speaker 1: these four days like when we when they cut it down,
Speaker 1: what did they find? Yeah, they did find that that
Speaker 1: productivity is basically the same or even improved. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's that you know, workers tend to be more focused
Speaker 1: during the four days, and they tend to put a
Speaker 1: lot of effort into those four days that they are
Speaker 1: either in the office or or working from home. Um.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, Um, the CEO of that company also expected
Speaker 1: you know, productivity to you know, uh suffer when he
Speaker 1: sent all of his employees at home, and he said,
Speaker 1: clearly that didn't happen. Much of the country workers worked
Speaker 1: just as as well from home, and uh, lossing off
Speaker 1: another day was the natural choice for him. And he
Speaker 1: said it really restored a work life balance that has
Speaker 1: you know, left him energized for the rest of the week. Hey, Stephan,
Speaker 1: I want to move to another story that you wrote
Speaker 1: talking about Tesla. Speaking of the corporate world. You've got
Speaker 1: to get to those four days of work somehow. And
Speaker 1: it turns out the European corporate car market is huge.
Speaker 1: This was really surprising for me to see. Um, a
Speaker 1: lot of companies are a company's account for a large
Speaker 1: proportion of cars sold in Europe, right, Yeah, that's that's correct.
Speaker 1: Around around sixty of new cars sold in Europe are
Speaker 1: bought by corporate customers. So that is the huge market.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's worth about three hundred sixty billion dollars
Speaker 1: and it's a mark the local automakers dominate. UM and
Speaker 1: of course Tesla has a hard time cracking that market
Speaker 1: pobly because it's lacking servicing stations. One company told me that,
Speaker 1: you know, It's It's workers would love to get Tesla's,
Speaker 1: but the company is not comfortable offering those cars as
Speaker 1: a perk because they are afraid that these employees would
Speaker 1: take time off from work to to deal with repairs.
Speaker 1: And the likes from Mercedes, BMW and Volkswagen. They offer
Speaker 1: same day fixes nearby for these company carts that that
Speaker 1: these workers get as a perk, and and that's why
Speaker 1: there's there's still the favorite models for many companies. Well
Speaker 1: that was Stefan nickeled German business reporter at Bloomberg News,
Speaker 1: along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber. What do
Speaker 1: you think, Carol, would you do it? Uh? You know,
Speaker 1: I have had a four day work week in the
Speaker 1: past working for another media organization. It was nice to
Speaker 1: kind of have that longer weekend. You really felt like
Speaker 1: you got a week. Um, did the four days feel
Speaker 1: more intense? Sometimes? Yeah, some as they were longer days.
Speaker 1: But I'm kind of cool with that. Yeah, I'm okay
Speaker 1: with kind of like packing it in. Can we call
Speaker 1: the New York Stock Exchange in the markets and just
Speaker 1: say could we just stop trading? Yeah, they'll totally listen
Speaker 1: to us. Just stop trading on Monday's all right, you're
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up. Commercial real estate
Speaker 1: occupancy slowly making its way back. That's right. And Carol,
Speaker 1: you you pose this question to our next guest. The
Speaker 1: quote from Jamie Diamond. We caught up with him are
Speaker 1: Ed Hammond did, and you know he's talked about remote
Speaker 1: work will reduce the need for commercial real estate. You
Speaker 1: agree with him. I the answer to that question from
Speaker 1: the president of Swig Equities. This is Bloomberg. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. So last time we heard
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Ed Hammond catching up with JP Morgan's Jamie Diamon.
Speaker 1: It was an exclusive interview, a killer interview, and they
Speaker 1: talked about how tim remote work will reduce the need
Speaker 1: for commercial real estate. And so when we had on
Speaker 1: Kent Swig of Swig Equities commercial and Residential real estate investor,
Speaker 1: we had to ask him about that. Yeah, that's right, Carroll,
Speaker 1: especially as Swig Equity specializes in properties right here in
Speaker 1: New York where we are, and in California, as well.
Speaker 1: You guys started out by talking all about whether or
Speaker 1: not he's seeing more people return to offices. It's beginning
Speaker 1: to happen a little bit. Um. I would say the
Speaker 1: average right now in New York City of occupancy, you know,
Speaker 1: people going into the building not least per se, is
Speaker 1: about twelve percent maybe, so it hasn't changed all that significantly. However, Um,
Speaker 1: the activity level that we're seeing in terms of commercial
Speaker 1: in terms of tenants starting to look and starting to
Speaker 1: become more active, and certainly on the residential front, it's
Speaker 1: is active that's been since you know, the past six
Speaker 1: seven years. Um. So that's a good sign going forward.
Speaker 1: So i'd say new deal transact volume is starting to
Speaker 1: pick up. I don't know if you heard the quote
Speaker 1: from Jamie Diamond. We caught up with him are at
Speaker 1: Hammond did and you know he's talked about remote work
Speaker 1: will reduce the need for commercial real estate. You agree
Speaker 1: with him, I don't entirely. And then for two reasons. Um. First,
Speaker 1: I'll qualified by saying I think that some I think
Speaker 1: the idea of working from home is something that is
Speaker 1: part of our workforce today and has not been had
Speaker 1: not been previously. So that part. I agree with him. However,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's going to translate directly into
Speaker 1: into a less amount of office space being occupied. Um.
Speaker 1: So whereas people there was Stanford University did a study
Speaker 1: uh just before covid um which was interesting saying that
Speaker 1: about nine of the people said the workforce around the
Speaker 1: United States said they would be interested in working from
Speaker 1: home one day a week, and there was about thirty
Speaker 1: that said not a chance. Um that I think would
Speaker 1: be very interesting to see where we are today, certainly, um,
Speaker 1: but I think one day a week, somewhere in there
Speaker 1: people will be working from home. I think it's somewhat
Speaker 1: efficient to do that. Again, if you have a lot
Speaker 1: of emails one day and you want to work from
Speaker 1: home and answer them and not have office distraction or
Speaker 1: telephone distraction, Yes, it's good. Working from home is a
Speaker 1: factor and will continue past the covid um pandemic when
Speaker 1: we recede from that. However, that doesn't mean that we're
Speaker 1: going to translate into fewer amounts or less amount of
Speaker 1: square foot is being occupied. And the reason is is
Speaker 1: because I think the trend since nineteen eighty seven has
Speaker 1: been going to you know, more compact, more jammed together offices.
Speaker 1: From you know seven was about three fifty square feet
Speaker 1: per person and we dropped down to about a hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy five square feet per person. I think that
Speaker 1: trend is going to be moving the other way because
Speaker 1: I think health and safety and traffic flow is going
Speaker 1: to increase in terms of it's important. So um, you know,
Speaker 1: taking our temperatures going in during flu season. I think
Speaker 1: it's going to be part of everyday life. I think
Speaker 1: having occupancy of a little bit more space per person
Speaker 1: is going to be a part of our lives. So
Speaker 1: I don't see it translating into taking that much less space. Listen,
Speaker 1: you're you know, someone who I can tell loves New
Speaker 1: York like I do. I think that's safe to say.
Speaker 1: And it kind of kills me when I like drive
Speaker 1: down an avenue and see though how much real estate,
Speaker 1: you know, especially retail space, and not a surprise, I guess, um,
Speaker 1: but it's rough to see so much boarded up and empty.
Speaker 1: And I do wonder what's what's the downfall? I mean,
Speaker 1: is there the commercial real estate market? Does it come
Speaker 1: undone or are you starting to see the private equity
Speaker 1: investors and other investors, I don't know, you know looking
Speaker 1: at some distressed properties. Are you looking at distressed properties? Well,
Speaker 1: yes we are. We're looking at to stress properties both
Speaker 1: commercial and residentially, UM, but specifically with the retail. UM.
Speaker 1: Retail has been devastated, absolutely, no question about it. Retail
Speaker 1: depends on massive street graphic people going out and feeling safe,
Speaker 1: all of which has not happened. But we are now
Speaker 1: with the third vaccine that's been cleared, UM, we're looking
Speaker 1: at a summer where you know, we're going to have
Speaker 1: a very high percentage of our population inoculated against the vaccine.
Speaker 1: And I think, well, people will be starting to go
Speaker 1: back out. Now, what's going to happen is what has happened,
Speaker 1: it's going to continue to happen. Is rents for retail
Speaker 1: is going to are going to continue to drop, and
Speaker 1: they have dropped. UM. Retail tenants have been hurt, and
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna end up with a game of
Speaker 1: musical chairs where tenants are going to be moving from
Speaker 1: one place to the other. And yes, it's going to
Speaker 1: take time to get the restaurants back up and operating,
Speaker 1: but they will come back up and they will be
Speaker 1: operating and next the hotels will start getting back up
Speaker 1: and operating, And it's not going to happen in a month,
Speaker 1: but it's certainly going to take. You know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: take six months, seven months before this stuff starts really
Speaker 1: coming back. But the energy level of people and the
Speaker 1: frustration level of people who have been inside for a
Speaker 1: long long time that want to get out and want
Speaker 1: to go do something thing is clearly They're led by
Speaker 1: the young population. If you go look in Miami right now,
Speaker 1: for instance, which is a different environment completely and I
Speaker 1: won't give an opinion you know of Governor to Santos
Speaker 1: and what is what he's doing versus Governor of Cuomo
Speaker 1: in our state, but the restaurants nightclubs are heavily populated.
Speaker 1: Whether safe or not is another thing, But it just
Speaker 1: tells you that even in the middle of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: people's desire to go out and want to go do
Speaker 1: something is certainly there. So I think it comes back.
Speaker 1: Is there though, an ultimate fallout of long term impact
Speaker 1: impact on New York though, or is it just a
Speaker 1: case of we're going to be using space differently? Um?
Speaker 1: I think the ultimate there is a long term impact
Speaker 1: I think on on the hotel industry, particularly because the
Speaker 1: hotels have been closed for quite a long time. And um,
Speaker 1: I think the impact is on two fold. One. I
Speaker 1: think management unions have to work together because under the
Speaker 1: contracts with the union contracts, hotels couldn't open up partially
Speaker 1: because the contracts said that they can. You know, if
Speaker 1: you open up, you have to have a certain number
Speaker 1: of staff. Us. I think it was not thought about
Speaker 1: for a pandemic environment. So I think that will change
Speaker 1: and allow for you know, it would have allowed for
Speaker 1: hotels to partially open but didn't. And to um, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of hotels that just may not make it,
Speaker 1: and I think they may be converted into residential or
Speaker 1: some alternative space, so you know that, and and they
Speaker 1: are very dependent also on the airline industry and travel.
Speaker 1: So UM, I think that's the last piece that starts
Speaker 1: to come back. I think that the residential market is
Speaker 1: certainly coming back right now. It's very very active. Um.
Speaker 1: We we had you know, we had over forty contracts
Speaker 1: signed over four point four million dollars last week. We
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything like that since August of two thousand fifteen.
Speaker 1: Back or what is that People in New York just
Speaker 1: getting more space for a better price, or what is it. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a combination of everything. Um. At first in January
Speaker 1: and the beginning of a little bit of February. Um,
Speaker 1: what you saw is a lot of buying in one
Speaker 1: bedroom and studios because to get on the mayor around
Speaker 1: when it was traveling quickly. Um, to use uh a
Speaker 1: little bit of a phrase. Um, it was very difficult
Speaker 1: and you jumped off. If you'd have jumped on and
Speaker 1: you missed it, hurt. That was president of Swig Equities,
Speaker 1: Kent Swig, you know, Carroll. Another story in the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: this week that got a lot of attention was the
Speaker 1: declining rents, especially in Manhattan and for residential and how
Speaker 1: they're starting to attract this new generation of New Yorker's
Speaker 1: people who always wanted to live in New York and
Speaker 1: now see this as the opportunity right exactly now they
Speaker 1: can afford it all right, still to come on Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. Food Products and Services sing a lot of
Speaker 1: disruption and innovation during the pandemic. The former CFO and
Speaker 1: CEO of Impossible Foods and as new venture as president
Speaker 1: of app Harmy's that's coming up. This is Bloomberg broadcasting
Speaker 1: from the financial capital of the world. Bloomberg you live
Speaker 1: in Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg
Speaker 1: to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one does San Francisco,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Sirius XM Chado one
Speaker 1: my team and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio dot com. This is Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: So Tim a guest familiar to our audience, and the
Speaker 1: last time we caught up with him, he was the
Speaker 1: CFO of Impossible Foods. Also at the time a board
Speaker 1: member of the green tech agg startup at Harvest and
Speaker 1: now president of A Harvest, now trading under the ticker
Speaker 1: symbol a p pH after going public. Get this through
Speaker 1: a speck Not that surprising, so hot right now it's
Speaker 1: also a certified B corporation. Yeah, we're talking about David Lee.
Speaker 1: We began our discussion talking about the news of his
Speaker 1: company going public at that Harvest. We recognize the urgency
Speaker 1: of the mission we have required that we find long
Speaker 1: term partners and access capital to scale our business fast
Speaker 1: and with the ability to partner with Novis Capital and
Speaker 1: now to be traded on the ASDAC. It's a wonderful
Speaker 1: sign that investors are ready for companies but are making
Speaker 1: a better food company. You know, we like to think
Speaker 1: our product using a fraction of the water and producing
Speaker 1: a delicious tomato for now but more to come, will
Speaker 1: appeal to consumers. But we're now seeing that our company,
Speaker 1: a company that treats its employees better, that's better for
Speaker 1: the environment and for consumers help, is being appreciated by
Speaker 1: investors as well. Yeah, it's interesting to see and I
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of investors are looking. You know,
Speaker 1: I talked about innovation disruption. We've seen it in a
Speaker 1: lot of spaces, UM, and I think you know, everybody's
Speaker 1: now watching the food space very closely. You mentioned David Tomato,
Speaker 1: you mentioned less water, it's indoor, there's no chemical pesticides.
Speaker 1: The yield UH is about thirty times more. You're doing
Speaker 1: it Appalachia. That's where you're doing it, UM, so in
Speaker 1: an interesting part of our country. UM specifically, we I
Speaker 1: called it a green tech agg startup, but I feel
Speaker 1: like you're doing a lot more in terms of the
Speaker 1: cycle and supply chain of food. What is it about
Speaker 1: the technology that you really stands out and is very
Speaker 1: strikingly different from what we know and we've come to understand,
Speaker 1: is how we get all of our food. Absolutely, you know,
Speaker 1: I like the things that that harvest is revolutionizing food
Speaker 1: from seed all the way to the plate. That means
Speaker 1: that the non GMO be steak tomatoes, seed that we
Speaker 1: grow in these enormous greenhouses, since we have a sixty
Speaker 1: acre indoor farm nearly two point eight million square feet
Speaker 1: under glass in the heart of central Appalachia, that we
Speaker 1: not just grow great tomatoes from the seed, but that
Speaker 1: we employ highly skilled workers in the United States who
Speaker 1: can have a great living wage and make a product
Speaker 1: that uses less water, have no chemical pesticides, of taste grape,
Speaker 1: you know it. It's from seed to plate that the
Speaker 1: whole company is designed to be better. And it's whether
Speaker 1: it's our NONO bubble technology that allows us to have
Speaker 1: the right amount of nutrients and oxygen and the recycled
Speaker 1: rain water or act that we're looking at automation to
Speaker 1: help our human employees, the data intensity we have AI
Speaker 1: so we can watch how our plants each grow. It's
Speaker 1: all of that that allows us to stop shipping in
Speaker 1: nearly two thirds of the buye crops we import into
Speaker 1: the United States from outside the country. It's all the
Speaker 1: way from seed to plate um. That's what we're seeking
Speaker 1: to do here. And at how part this I think
Speaker 1: last time you were on we talked a little bit
Speaker 1: about this. But what about power efficiencies, because I know
Speaker 1: one of the concerns has been about some of hydroponic
Speaker 1: and some of these in house big greenhouses is the
Speaker 1: use of power. Yeah, well, we're working hard to leverage,
Speaker 1: for example, passive solar and new technology. You know, we
Speaker 1: like to use the natural place that we're located for
Speaker 1: the recycled wave model, and for the fact that we
Speaker 1: can use the natural sunlight that piers through our farms.
Speaker 1: You know that the country just went through a lot
Speaker 1: of tough weather in many parts. And what I was
Speaker 1: gratified to see is the workers that have harvest in
Speaker 1: our more Head farm. You know, sometimes they had to
Speaker 1: show up an a tractor, but they showed up, and
Speaker 1: our business model ended up being incredibly resilient, much more
Speaker 1: resilient than an open field farm would be. UM. And
Speaker 1: so we'll get better and better on everything on how
Speaker 1: we use water, on how we reduce our power consumption.
Speaker 1: But for now. We thought it was important to create
Speaker 1: a big step forward for US agriculture in Kentucky. To
Speaker 1: be clear, I'm a huge believer in impossible foods, and
Speaker 1: between you, me and I guess the rest of the world.
Speaker 1: In this call, I I exercise every single option that
Speaker 1: I was granted because I really believe in the business
Speaker 1: to be built. It was interesting. I was listening to
Speaker 1: some of the commentary on your show, and you know
Speaker 1: your consumers that impossible foods are meat eaters, readers like you,
Speaker 1: And when you can raise one point five billion dollars
Speaker 1: from sophisticated investors kind of shows that the world really
Speaker 1: is ready. All right, full disclosure. I've tried the impossible
Speaker 1: foods and beyond meat, some of the burgers, sausages, Um,
Speaker 1: I like them. They're not, though, a big part of
Speaker 1: my diet, at least not yet. So they were a
Speaker 1: big part of my diet over the summer when I
Speaker 1: was somewhere where we were like grilling outside a lot,
Speaker 1: which was fantastic. I think I probably, um, you know,
Speaker 1: ate them as much as I eat I'm not a vegetarian,
Speaker 1: but I probably ate those as much as I eat
Speaker 1: regular meat. Yeah, listen, it's still such a small part
Speaker 1: of the market. Um, but nonetheless we're seeing growth. We're
Speaker 1: seeing I feel like you and I constantly are talking
Speaker 1: about it and having more and more companies are involved
Speaker 1: in the plant based food world. And that was David Lee,
Speaker 1: former CFO of Impossible Foods, now president of app Harvest.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Our next guest writes
Speaker 1: about what he calls quote better capitalism. It's gs v
Speaker 1: Asset Management's co founder Michael Moe on the Mission Corporation
Speaker 1: that's coming up next. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes.
Speaker 1: Tim'st of it from Bloomberg Radio. Michael low is co
Speaker 1: founder of gs v Asset Management, author of the Global
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley Handbook. His firm Tim and He's invested in
Speaker 1: a few companies you might have heard of, Facebook, Twitter, Spotify,
Speaker 1: drop Box, Lift, Snap, a lot more. He's also incubated
Speaker 1: and accelerated hundreds of companies and has run innovation programs
Speaker 1: for the likes of Google, three M, Cisco, Infidelity. He's
Speaker 1: a great person to talk to about tech trends, and
Speaker 1: the startup world. Yeah, and Carol his his boot camp
Speaker 1: has helped others relaunch their own careers. He's got a
Speaker 1: new book out, The Mission. How contemporary capitalism can change
Speaker 1: the world one business at a time is a conversation
Speaker 1: happening all over right now, people questioning is a time
Speaker 1: for a new type of capitalism? You guys spoke all
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, we did, And like so many of us, though,
Speaker 1: he's looking forward to day when we can emerge from lockdowns.
Speaker 1: That's where we started. We're waiting to have things open
Speaker 1: up a little bit. But you know, the world's movement
Speaker 1: ahead nonetheless. I mean, I think the acceleration to dig
Speaker 1: all just as um pretty stunning. Um. But but um,
Speaker 1: listen to President Biden and talk about being able to
Speaker 1: move forward with the vaccine um. That that's encouraging news
Speaker 1: as well well. And I think you and others and
Speaker 1: your book really gets into this. You know, we are
Speaker 1: at this interesting time where so many trends, whether it's
Speaker 1: digitization and other trends, have been accelerated because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: It's also a time though that we are spending a
Speaker 1: lot of money to help out the economy, and we
Speaker 1: can think about how to do it better. Can we
Speaker 1: make you know, the world greener? Can we solve climate change?
Speaker 1: At the same time you write about better capitalism? What
Speaker 1: is better capitalism? Well, essentially, you know Adam Smith's Invisible Hand,
Speaker 1: which created the concept of capitalism, that invisible hands broken
Speaker 1: and we see that in the right of ways and
Speaker 1: that was certainly true before the pandemic, that that became
Speaker 1: more fractured during the pandemic. And yet we don't believe
Speaker 1: the um you know, the solution to this is to
Speaker 1: cut the hand off. It's really just to fix it
Speaker 1: and fix it with um an evolution which we call
Speaker 1: contemporary capitalism. That is that we think that the great
Speaker 1: businesses of tomorrow will combine the ambition of a for
Speaker 1: profit with the heart of a not for profit. It's
Speaker 1: this idea of multiple constituents, you know. So it's not
Speaker 1: just the shareholder, it's also the employee, it's the consumer,
Speaker 1: is the community, just the environment. And at the center
Speaker 1: of all that is a company needs to have a
Speaker 1: sense of purpose and meaning to what they do. How
Speaker 1: is it different than say, the conscious capitalism that John
Speaker 1: Mackie co founders thee of Hall Foods and and a
Speaker 1: guest to on our program has written about what's different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say that again. I love what he's done,
Speaker 1: and he's certainly on influence on our thinking. I think
Speaker 1: partly what we tried to do was both to put
Speaker 1: UM some some We have seven decoations in the book
Speaker 1: talking about we think, you know, principles the companies that
Speaker 1: want to reflect this new contemporary capitalism UM to aspire
Speaker 1: to it. We purposely kept them as general because we
Speaker 1: think this is going to get UM evolve over time
Speaker 1: into more specific ways that the companies are able to
Speaker 1: reflect that. You know, their their purpose to mean, their
Speaker 1: success is driven by UM fundamentals that are beyond just
Speaker 1: you know, making the most profit that they can to
Speaker 1: that quarter. Michael, reading in and prepping for our conversation today,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, all right, so, how does China complicate
Speaker 1: this process of kind of a better capitalism, because don't
Speaker 1: you be global cooperation in order for it to really
Speaker 1: work on all levels? Yeah? I mean again, I think
Speaker 1: the forces that work there are human forces and and
Speaker 1: it's it's gravity. And so as much as China has UM,
Speaker 1: it's all in highbrid form of capitalism. You know, Chinese capitalism.
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's you know, people are people around
Speaker 1: the world, and what people are seeking and whether they
Speaker 1: say it this in an articulate way or not, is
Speaker 1: people are looking for purpose. They're looking for meaning in
Speaker 1: their life and their work. And so people being inspired
Speaker 1: or of employees either um don't like their work or
Speaker 1: neutral towards at work. And you look at the research
Speaker 1: the science behind that, there's two reasons for that. Because
Speaker 1: they don't feel like their their position matters. I mean,
Speaker 1: they don't have a purpose to what they're doing, and
Speaker 1: they don't think their company has a purpose to what
Speaker 1: they're doing, or if they do, it's not well articulated,
Speaker 1: and they don't feel like they're part of that team.
Speaker 1: And so I mean that's just a fundamental reality. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're talking about people in the importance of you
Speaker 1: know what, basically what their work is about. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean people are seeking meaning and purpose and that that's
Speaker 1: that I think is what drives motivation, and that's going
Speaker 1: to be true whatever the political system is. No, it's listen,
Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of conversations with my
Speaker 1: younger nieces and nephews and even my own daughter who's
Speaker 1: you know, a teenager and they really care about this
Speaker 1: stuff in terms of what companies and you know, leaders
Speaker 1: stand for. I do wonder too, though, how does you
Speaker 1: know we live in certainly my world is a publicly
Speaker 1: held market world where I know we keep hearing conversations
Speaker 1: about multiple stakeholders, and I do wonder about it, you know,
Speaker 1: if if every multiple stakeholder is as important as the other.
Speaker 1: But does the public markets complicate this idea of better
Speaker 1: capitalism or profit with a purpose? I know it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to, but I just wonder how it complicates it. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it ultimately be reflected and multiples paid for
Speaker 1: companies who have sustainable values to the business model. So
Speaker 1: you might be able to make more money this coreter
Speaker 1: because you were able to do shortcuts or make decisions
Speaker 1: that UM might benefit the near term non burs but
Speaker 1: the multiple that investors are going to put on that,
Speaker 1: in my view, UM is going to be lower. And
Speaker 1: you're starting to see this shift is really thinking. I mean,
Speaker 1: this kind of river of business is flowing in a
Speaker 1: different way that it's ever flowed before. And so as
Speaker 1: you talk about young people, you talk about your daughter
Speaker 1: and your and your nieces and nephews. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a this is a phenomena that's really embedded and
Speaker 1: you know what, people you know are looking for what
Speaker 1: they want and that ultimately, ultimately all companies are valued
Speaker 1: the same way, which is future casual is just come
Speaker 1: back to the day. Companies that have these mission driven values.
Speaker 1: I really you know, it really equates to more of
Speaker 1: a sustainable growth, more sustainable business model, which should mean
Speaker 1: that their future profits are going to be greater, which
Speaker 1: means that you know that what what hell the market
Speaker 1: ultimately vas those should be higher. Well it's interesting too
Speaker 1: because when I talked to you know, you mentioned my
Speaker 1: nieces and I mentioned my nieces, and you know, there
Speaker 1: is a feeling that capitalism is bad, and you know,
Speaker 1: I try to remind them that it builds a lot
Speaker 1: of things that we take for granted today. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: what is your what would be your message message to
Speaker 1: someone if there's a listen, capitalism just doesn't work anymore? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean again, young people were believe that socialism is
Speaker 1: a better system than capitalism. It's not that they're ignorant
Speaker 1: or that they don't know history. What they've experienced as
Speaker 1: a system that feels great you see growing inequality, you
Speaker 1: see where you know the people running companies have made
Speaker 1: you know they're average CEO makes fourgner times the average
Speaker 1: worker and fewer and fear people feel like they're getting
Speaker 1: a feving a fair system. Today's world. Basically your future
Speaker 1: depends on how well how well you select your parents,
Speaker 1: which is not that's not a fair system. So people
Speaker 1: are looking for a better system, and that's what we're saying.
Speaker 1: You can't in socialism is oh un forty two, So
Speaker 1: we know that. So it's really how do you, as
Speaker 1: I said before, where how do you fix the invisible
Speaker 1: hand of capitalism that's broken and make it better and
Speaker 1: make it reflect where the we're going. So what's out
Speaker 1: there on the horizon that gives you hope, whether it's leaders,
Speaker 1: whether it's companies, whether it's the younger generation, that gives
Speaker 1: you hope that capitalism can be better? Well, I think
Speaker 1: you do. Ship and the young entrepreneurs and what they
Speaker 1: are doing in terms of the businesses they're creating, it's
Speaker 1: not just how can they get rich? In fact, most
Speaker 1: of them are saying, how can they dent the universe
Speaker 1: for good? How can they change the world for good?
Speaker 1: You talk about Left is a company that you had
Speaker 1: good numbers to report, um, you know, an interim and
Speaker 1: the stock reflecting that. Well, the fact is Left as
Speaker 1: a company has embetted values that I think reflect a
Speaker 1: lot of what we talked about contemporary capitalist vaccine. This
Speaker 1: last twelve months of what we've gone through, this race
Speaker 1: to create a vaccine, which is just extraordinary. What's happened.
Speaker 1: There's this cooperation between big pharmaceutical companies which are after
Speaker 1: the most loved you know, and that not the best behavior.
Speaker 1: Even all of a sudden it was sort of this
Speaker 1: kind of rallying for good, for doing making a society better,
Speaker 1: not not from how to make more money, so that
Speaker 1: those kind of signs are encouraging. Hey, listen, just got
Speaker 1: about thirty forty seconds here. Just quickly, Michael, if there
Speaker 1: was one government policy, I know you talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: better tax incentive structures. If there's one policy that could
Speaker 1: come down that would really make a difference here, what
Speaker 1: would it be? And just quickly, if you could removing
Speaker 1: friction from the whole start up ecosystem. And I think
Speaker 1: it really be more than just tax policy. It's liberating
Speaker 1: companies to tax big problems and have investor support those problems.
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about incentives when we're talking about
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I think one of the challenges that
Speaker 1: a lot of executives face and management faces when it
Speaker 1: comes to publicly traded companies, it's that they are being
Speaker 1: judged by shareholders quarter by quarters, so the incentives don't
Speaker 1: exactly line up with these long term goals. Did you
Speaker 1: feel about that, Like when we talk about kind of
Speaker 1: a bad moment for a publicly health company, or we're
Speaker 1: focusing on these core le earnings. I've always had a
Speaker 1: kind of love hate with them because it's a great
Speaker 1: gut check on the company's but it's also like, hey,
Speaker 1: Mr numbers, because you're investing for the future, is that
Speaker 1: you know, are we not thinking about it in the
Speaker 1: right way? Look, I think it's an important conversation to have,
Speaker 1: and I think it's one that a lot of executives
Speaker 1: are having right now, especially when it comes to how
Speaker 1: they think about forecasts and what type of guidance they're
Speaker 1: giving right exactly. That's gsvsset Management co founder Michael mo
Speaker 1: That full conversation you can find it at Bloomberg dot
Speaker 1: com on our podcast feed, and that wraps up the
Speaker 1: weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Tim Stanovk. Be sure to tune into our Bloomberg Business
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Speaker 1: You can find that at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or
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Speaker 1: our extra podcast this week. Is the president, founder of
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Speaker 1: Her thoughts on combating climate change and reducing waste, and
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