WEBVTT - Fire Drill 011: Geoff Ogilvy and Michael Bamberger Preview the PGA 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.520 It'll be one of the big dogs, you would think, 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.119 because just historically Southern Hills has done that. And it 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.039 does that because it all it asks questions that maybe 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.080 not everybody has all the answers to, you know, and 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.680 only really the top sort of ten or fifteen or 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.480 so guy's probably have all those answers. And obviously everyone 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:22.920 in the field can probably win. But generally over seventy 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.120 two holes sort of the cream rises to the top 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:33.239 of a place like this. Another log on the fire 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:44.479 What are here is get the time? Hello? This is 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.680 Alan Schipknuck back for another Fire Drill podcast. I am 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.680 joined by an illustrious duo Jeff Ogilvie from all the 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:58.720 way from Australia. Michael Bamberger. Gentlemen, thanks for being here. Yeah, 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.720 no worries. Um So, Jeff, we want to talk about 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.600 Southern Hills as a venue and you know it's it's 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.280 a proud course that's hosted a lot of big time tournaments, 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.240 but it's gone a pretty through a renovation. What is 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.880 your feeling about Southern Hills And I'm sure you've looked 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:17.520 at all the photos and you have a sense for 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.440 for the work that Gil Haunts did but what do 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.920 you think of this as a venue? It's incredible. I 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.600 mean in um oh seven my main memories, I'm sure 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.000 both of you guys were the US how hard it was. Um, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.360 perhaps the hottest tournament I've ever played. I mean it 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.800 was Tiger winning a major in his prime, and it 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.200 was relatively quiet out there, really remember, because people were 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.120 dropping like flies in the crowd, and it was outrageously hot. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.200 So I think the weather will be much better this 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.680 week in May. Um. But all in all, I remember 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.400 loving the course. It's one of the best courses in 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:56.160 the world. It's it seems to really reward a guy 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.000 with a complete game. You've got to move the ball 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.400 both ways. It's the grains, tricky, lots of undulation, changes, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.160 sidehill lies. I mean sort of got some Augusta type 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.320 sort of golf involved, you know, now a lot by 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.680 short grass around the grains it looks like with gil. Um. Yeah, 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.440 it's a great property, incredible course, and if you look 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.400 at the winner the role of winners who have won there, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.280 it's just only quality players in history. So, um, it 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:23.760 should be a good quach, should me it should be 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:28.760 a great tournament, I imagine. Okay, I mean everyone quick second, Jeff. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.480 Something that's extraordinary to me about you and some of 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.000 your during brethren, but not all of them. You can 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.320 go to a golf course once and remember it forever, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.799 Like you know here you are, it's been years since 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.840 you've been there. It hasn't been years since you've been 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.640 there two thousand seven. Yeah, okay, how well can you 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.800 actually remember this course in your mind's eye? You know 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.600 what I was thinking about that this week? I remember 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.239 most of it. I mean I probably can't remember sort 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.799 of like the little details and stuff, but I kind 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.000 of read through the holes in my head. Probably can't 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.120 really remember sort of yardages of holes or really clubs 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:06.520 and stuff that I was hitting, but I sort of 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.760 remember the general sort of shape holes and where they went, 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.720 the really difficult stuff. I remember how brutally difficult eighteen was, 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:18.480 how happy you were to make par up eighteen Um? 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:25.040 Just yeah, I mean, look, it's it was. If I 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.800 went back there, I would remember every detail when I 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:29.959 was there. It's sort of like you have this database 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:31.640 in your head, and like when you're away from and 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.040 you haven't seen it for a while, you sort of 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.280 have vague memories. But as soon as I drove up 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.680 the driveway, I would remember more, and I'd get on 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.280 the range and I remember more, And as sin as 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.080 you get down the first you remember more. So, yeah, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.160 you're right. We have these sort of filing cabinets in 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.880 our head that sort of you have all this detail 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:48.440 in there, and as soon as it gets presented in 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.480 front of you, I'd probably start remembering shots I hit 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.680 in two thousand and seven. Funnily enough, I would think, So, 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.360 you're right. I think that sort of happened. When you're 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.200 so involved in what you're doing and you're paying so 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.640 much attention, you're so intense and what you do, it 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.600 burns it a little bit deeper into their memory. Um, 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.600 So you guys sort of wander around and you're more 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.520 watching the the shots and the drama that's happening. We're 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:17.400 actually trying to, um, sort of play the course really well. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.240 So I think we get a bit more invested in 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.120 actually what's going on on the course. I think that's 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.120 probably why, Jeff, have you been to Prairie Dunes and 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.800 another great course here in the Midwest. I haven't. No, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.120 I've heard lots of good reports. I mean, Michael Cocking, 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.360 my design part one of my design partners. He's he's 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.080 been talking glowingly. He visited there pretty recently and he 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.360 really really enjoyed the place. So I think it's, um 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.240 that's one of the best courses in the Midwest, right, 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:48.080 Oh yeah, I mean I think it might be the 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:49.960 best course in the United States. I was just there 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.279 for the first time in the last year, and it's 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:57.640 absolutely monumental golf course and just an incredible test. It 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.880 was too much golf course from me, but um, it 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.600 was just it was like Royal Dornick kind of greens 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:09.640 and these amazing dunes and just just phenomenal. And where 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.640 I'm going with this is Perry Maxwell design that he 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.719 did Southern Hills, and he's a guy who's never really 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.440 talked about in the pantheon of these these great old architects. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.200 Do you have any any any sense for for Maxwell, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.160 any any any inside and into his work? Not really, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.440 I mean, obviously, I know Perry Jones is probably his best. 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.960 I mean, you're probably the first person who's ever said 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:37.120 they think Perry Jones is the best course in America. Umbly, Yeah, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.719 I have only ever heard great things. I mean, I 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.560 think it's an incredible place. It's kind of in a 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.640 really unlikely place for a great course to um, kind 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:48.920 of a little bit in the middle of I wear, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:50.280 and you don't really expect it, and all of a 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.039 sudden you've got this sort of golf utopia link style 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:57.000 golf course in the middle of America, which is pretty interesting. Um. No, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.720 but he did a lot of great stuff in Southern 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.120 Hills is probably a on with Parry Jones. Is two 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.760 sort of most famous ones. I think, Um, Southern Hills 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.400 has had all the Gulf tournaments. Um. And I don't 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.839 I don't know how much Southern Hills has kind of 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:17.799 evolved since those times. Um. But it's such an incredible property. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.240 It's got that great undulation and the great it's got 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.840 such a great piece of property, and it's just it's 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.599 got a very grand feel about it. Um. And it 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.960 feels like even we just you're in the clubhouse, it's 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.120 very it's very important feeling place, you know. Um. And 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.000 it's it's just a natural venue. It just feels like 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.480 a great venue for a big tournament. You alluded to 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.520 it earlier with the work that Gil Hans has done 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.720 on Southern Hills, and they really are trying to accentuate 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.719 the greens and the surrounds, and it doesn't have that 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.000 long rough framing the greens like a lot of US 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.560 major championship venues, and the ball is going to run 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.000 away from the whole if you had a bad shot. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.120 And when when you when you bring short game like 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.800 that back to a major championship set up, what does 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.800 that do to the players who are already on edge 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.800 where it's a big week and it's a challenging venue. 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:09.520 But now knowing that you're gonna have to hit all 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.160 these different shots and you're gonna have to decide what 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.440 kind of shots hit every time you misagree, how much 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.920 does that, you know, turn up the volume on the test? 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:20.640 I think a lot. I mean, obviously, the trend for 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.760 a very long time was to just sort of ring 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.160 fence the course and really deep, longest rough that you 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.760 could get away with that sort of ultimately punish every 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.800 bad shot and reward anything on short grass and punish 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:36.040 anything away from that. We've seen it drifting gradually sort 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.160 of in the last ten fift twenty years um sort 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.200 of Pinehurst maybe one of the first ones that dip 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.840 the toe into changing that sort of style. Um, having 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:46.640 more short grass, and we've seen more and more and 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.080 more of it. It's just it's a it's a more 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.080 complete test, I mean, funnily enough, I mean outside of 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:56.040 tours circles. Most people probably don't really understand this, but 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.200 there's a lot of pros who don't love chipping off 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.120 short grass. Um. It's sort of the ultimate test of 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:06.280 a short game. You'll you go from generally a long, 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.400 rough golf course that we've played traditionally in majors and 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.400 maybe it's just a normal sort of PG to a 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.960 set up as long rough. As you get the sixty 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.120 degree out or you get your the most lofted worge 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.720 out you can, you can almost pull it out on 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.280 the fairway when you've missed a ground and walk up 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.240 because you know that's the club you're gonna hit. You 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.200 go short grass one. Like you say, the ball can 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.600 run and never stop, which is sort of part of 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.320 the charm of adds to the challenge sort of coming 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:32.640 into the greens is that you really have to think 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.240 where you're landing this too. I really want to land 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:35.679 this back near the pin, because if it goes over 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.160 the back, who knows what it's going to end and 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.280 to the short game. You can play any club from 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.320 realistically any club from three wood two, putter off short grass, 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.400 I mean maybe even driver, because you can play fourteen 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.439 clubs around the greens, and that leaves choice, and I 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.200 sometimes think pros don't really enjoy choice. I think they're 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.160 like being told, just hit the sixty and get good 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.160 at this shot. I mean, all of a sudden, they 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:58.680 can hit a five iron, they could bump it with 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.440 a hybrid, they could putter, they could get the sixty out, 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.760 they could sort of get the pitching wedge out. They 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.680 can do all sorts of any all manner of staff. 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.560 And we see that the Masters every year sort of 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.640 the sort of confusion and in decision around the greens 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.720 when they're chipping, and I think whenever you see that, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.400 I think it's compelling to watch. I always enjoyed it 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.559 the most. And in Melbourne golf is generally a short 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.040 grass sort of place. Around the greens, you're either in 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.040 a bunker or short grass, and so we grew up 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.319 chipping short grass, and I am the other way around. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.079 I took a really long time to get used to 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.520 chipping out of a long rough and hated it. At 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.960 first and gradually got used to it, and then after 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.439 a while realized that the long rough is actually easier 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:40.080 generally to chip out of than short grass because it's 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.120 the same sort of shot every single time, whereas the 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.000 short grass. Yeah, one, the green isn't ring fenced and 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.520 so you can't be quite as aggressive into the grain 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.520 because of where it can go when it misses, and 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.920 too you're sort of left with these tight little lies 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.720 that you don't really want to pull too much loft 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.480 out of, but you're really not used to and we 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.040 just don't practice bump and runs like they probably in 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.640 it in days years gone by. So um, I really 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.880 I think it's just a much more compelling sort of 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:09.800 style of golf to watch the best players in the 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.080 world player, especially around great greens like Southern hills. I mean, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.240 there's slopes and pitch and I'm sure they'll be very 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.960 fast and there'll be a bounce on them. So usually 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.920 a sign are usually a setup that will bring the 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.480 imagination and the great short games out, and you have 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.640 to be much it's the strategy. It's a knock on effect. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.600 Back up the strategy because you've got to be coming 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.880 in from the right spot so you don't miss it 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.800 in the wrong spot, and then you've got to hit 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:37.880 your t shirt in into the right spot so you 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:39.480 can hit into the right spot on the green. So 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.679 it's sort of the short grass around the greens and 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.640 the firmness and the ability for the course to sort 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.040 of repel the ball away sort of reverberates all the 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.359 way back to the tea, which is why the Southern Hills, 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.280 like a week like this or the Masters can get 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.960 away with such wide fairways because there's really only sections 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:56.400 of those fairways you want to be on if you 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.560 want to successfully sort of navigate around, if you know how. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.559 A lot of a lot of Turan pros will say, well, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.120 I treat the Majors just like any other week. We 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.400 don't alan and I don't I don't think. I don't 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.320 think you do. Why do we focus so much on 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.040 a golf on a golf course when we get to 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.920 a major? What it is about major venues that eliminate 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.040 a lot of the field because it takes a certain 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.520 type of golfing intelligence just to figure out the golf 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.240 course quickly enough to be able to produce two eighty 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.360 year lower by the end of the week. UM A 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.880 few things there one eye, whether they tell you that 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.959 or not, I'm pretty confident most players don't treat majors 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.480 like it's any other way. They might say that UM 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.800 to sort of try to take some pressure off themselves, 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.240 but they certainly don't know. I think that's actually not 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.720 the correct approach. I always enjoyed ramping it up and 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.000 leveling it up, and like, this is actually why I 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:51.559 play golf. Let's go, you know. I think that's if 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.680 you're not ready for that, you're not ready to win one, 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:55.880 you know. I think you could have need the big show. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:57.800 And I think the guys that win these the guys 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:02.720 like Ram and Tiger and um Colin and these guys, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.720 they know they're bigger weeks, you know, and it's it's 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.400 more important to them. UM. Two, I think the golf 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.800 course gets talked about so much. One because we generally 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.120 go to really historic, great venues that don't You don't 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:20.720 generally see Southern Hills in UM or Southern Hills level golf. Tom, 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.320 it's on the PGR. Two. You know, we have Riviera 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:23.920 every year, which is great, and you have Pebble, but 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.360 Pebble is completely different in February than the US open Um. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.520 I think they're more interesting venues in general, because the 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.839 PGA and the U s J and the R and 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.440 A they pick, They picked venues that do that sort 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.840 of have that historic sort of thing. But mostly I 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.839 think we talked so much about them because there's so 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.040 much airtime created around majors, and we've just got more 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:47.880 to talk about. So we just run out of time 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:49.920 talking about players, and we're going to talk about something now. 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.760 So true. I was telling my kids that I was 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.600 coming to Oklahoma, like, why on earth are you going 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.400 to Homa Because there's one really really great golf course there. 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.959 There's no other reason. And uh, but you're right, I 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.720 mean it becomes uh, it's an event. You know, the 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.320 majors don't get to the Midwest very often, and they 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.400 don't get to that, you know, Oklahoma except for southern hills. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.480 And so not only is the golf course a big 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.160 time but the atmosphere, you know. I went out there 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.840 yesterday kind of late afternoon, early evening and Scottie Scheffler 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.040 was putting on a practice screen by himself and it 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.560 was encircled by two people. It felt like and uh, 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.240 you know, that's Monday, this Monday evening. You just don't. 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.160 You don't get that kind of action on Monday at 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.160 at a tour event. But you know, there's a feeling 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:39.599 of if you're from this part of the world, this 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.480 might be the only chance to see these guys for 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.679 a very long time. You don't. You generally don't get 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.719 the number one in the world practicing on Monday or 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.640 either in a normal tour event. I mean, he will 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.719 generally show up on Wednesday for the pro am rout 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.760 and then God's flying on Sunday and flying on halls. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.440 They're they're all wake. Everybody rents houses as opposed to 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.880 the normal hotel for a way. I mean, it's it's 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.040 just leveled up. Everything's leveled up. That's why, man, there's 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.280 no way that they's got anybody in the field is 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.120 really trading this like a normal page a term and 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.920 they might be trying to, but um, this family out here, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.520 there's management out here. They're all that they're all doing 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.120 the special thing, and um, it's it's just a it's 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.079 a big, big wakes. And that's again when the best 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.720 players in the world are drawing their best and I've 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.520 been preparing for something that usually creates something really interesting 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.800 to watch. Alan, just a quick note about your kids 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.120 and why are you going to Oklahoma? I love this 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.720 about going to majors, especially if you go to Rochester 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.240 and and go to the oak Hill Course of the 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.120 Oakland Hills Course, or or Prairie Dunes or Southern Hills. 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.239 It's like a hundred years ago there was a concentrated 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:47.000 level of wealth in a quote second rate town. Not 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.280 true at all, but that's how they might view them socially. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.080 The moment, it's like, we're going to show the world 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.160 that we can do something every bit as well as 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.720 as as any other city New York or Los Angeles 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.720 or Chicago. And like like a church building cathedral, it's 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.000 like we're going to hire the best architect, find the 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.760 best piece of land and build a golf course. It 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.400 is a monument to this game. And every city that 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.040 had significant wealth in the twenties has the Southern Hills. 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.200 And uh, it may not be, it may not be 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.320 long enough to host the US Open or big enough 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.400 in space, but it has when in there are immense 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.040 points of pride, and especially when it's a country club. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.720 Even though we are all drawn to golf clubs golf clubs, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.080 but the country club is like, we're wealthy and uh 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.160 and we're showing it off and here's our pool and 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.000 here's our tennis courts, and here's our clubhouse, and here's 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.560 our golf course and it's beautiful. Yeah. No, that's a 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.480 great point. And and you can feel out on the 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.720 grounds when when you when you arrive at these venues 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.280 there there is a feeling of pride. And then for 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.400 a lot of locals, they can't get to Southern Hills 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.400 any other week of the year. So then even even 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.680 if you're a Tulsa resident, you don't have an attachment 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.240 to the the club, but like you say, you get 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.920 to go experience it and you might bump into someone 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.320 you know, and there's there's that whole energy in the air, 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.680 and it's just it's just so different than than a 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.600 normal week. But I mean, that's a great point in Michael, 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.560 that the neighborhood around Southern Hills is extremely stately. I 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.360 mean beautiful houses. It really it's kind of has a 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.680 timeless kind of look, but not big Mickey mansions or 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.200 that were just built. I mean these places are I 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.520 have been there for a long time, and so h 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.640 there there there's a timelessness about about about this venue 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:27.000 that's really appealing. Okay, we just got that awkward zoom 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:31.840 pause or everyone's waiting for somebody else. It's given the 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.560 jeffs on the other side of the world. I guess 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:38.120 it's forgivable. So I was looking at your your your 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.160 playing record in the Major's, Jeff you didn't you didn't 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.160 play two thousand and one the US Open, but at 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.640 Southern Hills. But that was such a nutty tournament, and 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.000 you talk about the pitch of the greens, and in fact, 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.600 the eighteenth was so severe that the U s J 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:54.440 just gave up and said, you know, we're gonna we're 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.760 gonna bringna mode this a little higher and it's gonna 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.080 be slower than the other seventeen greens. Which it's not 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.280 great in general, but it's really problematic when it's the 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:08.320 seventies second hole. And if you remember Mark Brooks, Ratief 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.359 Goose and Stewart's saying, all kinds of craziness happened there 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.120 on that last green um and I think they took 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.080 nine punch between them, and it was just a monumental 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:22.000 cock up. The whole thing. Uh, And it's not really 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.199 talked about that often when when you go through the 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.080 the great U. S. G blunders of the twenty one century. 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.439 But that was a big one. And um, Michael were 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.680 you were you in at Southern Hills that week? Was 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.359 that was? I mean, I was in the locker room 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.880 with Mark Brooks. He was packing up and getting ready 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.439 to go, and then all of a sudden, you know, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.880 the everything, everything flipped there in the last half hour 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.919 and he had new life. But um, you know, Ratief 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.959 Goosen that that was actually one of the great reporting 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.280 challenges of my career because everyone knew he had been 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.520 struck by lightning, but no one really knew the details. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.000 And so every night I was staying up super late 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.960 trying to reach people in South Africa because I got 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.520 Goosen after I think the first round, and he gave 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.080 me the name of the guy he was playing with 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.159 that day, but he didn't have any other contact info. 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.280 But so I was calling golf clubs and I finally 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.800 tracked down the dude who was out on the course 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.640 with Goosen when he was struck by lightning. And I'm 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.000 still like, you know, I'm still haunted by the details. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.200 He said all the clubs in his bag, in Goosen's 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.480 bag were melded together by the heat, and his clothes 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.160 had been burned off, and the smell of like singed 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.760 hair and flesh, and that Goosen had actually swallowed his 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.360 tongue and was probably gonna die. But just pure happenstance. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.639 There was an actual like doctor in the next fairway 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.280 who ran over and and kind of recognize what's going 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.840 on and like with his finger like pride out his 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:52.479 tongue and did CPR and um and gooson and Goosen 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.280 survived and I'll never forget, like three in the morning, 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.560 like this guy telling me all these details and um, 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.760 so that it was a memorable we you know in 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.199 so many different ways. But what are your take? Did 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.720 you include the tongue reference in your game story? I'm 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.040 sure I did? Why would I not? Yeah, I haven't 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.720 actually gone back and read in a long time, but uh, 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:14.399 that was that was one of those you know, that 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:16.680 was kind of I guess it was early days the internet, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.560 but it was. I was just making phone calls to 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.159 every golf club and that part of South Africa. I 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.280 finally tracked this guy down. It was so satisfying, and um, 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.120 you know, I don't think we're chief scus. Really he's 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:30.199 in the Hall of Fame, but I'm not. I'm not 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.440 sure he's ever quite gotten his due. But that was true. 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.920 You know, to to three put the last hole to 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.760 potentially boot away the the the US Open on Sunday afternoon, 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.480 and then have the fortitude to come back and win 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.719 in a playoff, and um, pretty incredible. What are your 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.920