Speaker 1: It'll be one of the big dogs, you would think,
Speaker 1: because just historically Southern Hills has done that. And it
Speaker 1: does that because it all it asks questions that maybe
Speaker 1: not everybody has all the answers to, you know, and
Speaker 1: only really the top sort of ten or fifteen or
Speaker 1: so guy's probably have all those answers. And obviously everyone
Speaker 1: in the field can probably win. But generally over seventy
Speaker 1: two holes sort of the cream rises to the top
Speaker 1: of a place like this. Another log on the fire
Speaker 1: What are here is get the time? Hello? This is
Speaker 1: Alan Schipknuck back for another Fire Drill podcast. I am
Speaker 1: joined by an illustrious duo Jeff Ogilvie from all the
Speaker 1: way from Australia. Michael Bamberger. Gentlemen, thanks for being here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no worries. Um So, Jeff, we want to talk about
Speaker 1: Southern Hills as a venue and you know it's it's
Speaker 1: a proud course that's hosted a lot of big time tournaments,
Speaker 1: but it's gone a pretty through a renovation. What is
Speaker 1: your feeling about Southern Hills And I'm sure you've looked
Speaker 1: at all the photos and you have a sense for
Speaker 1: for the work that Gil Haunts did but what do
Speaker 1: you think of this as a venue? It's incredible. I
Speaker 1: mean in um oh seven my main memories, I'm sure
Speaker 1: both of you guys were the US how hard it was. Um,
Speaker 1: perhaps the hottest tournament I've ever played. I mean it
Speaker 1: was Tiger winning a major in his prime, and it
Speaker 1: was relatively quiet out there, really remember, because people were
Speaker 1: dropping like flies in the crowd, and it was outrageously hot.
Speaker 1: So I think the weather will be much better this
Speaker 1: week in May. Um. But all in all, I remember
Speaker 1: loving the course. It's one of the best courses in
Speaker 1: the world. It's it seems to really reward a guy
Speaker 1: with a complete game. You've got to move the ball
Speaker 1: both ways. It's the grains, tricky, lots of undulation, changes,
Speaker 1: sidehill lies. I mean sort of got some Augusta type
Speaker 1: sort of golf involved, you know, now a lot by
Speaker 1: short grass around the grains it looks like with gil. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great property, incredible course, and if you look
Speaker 1: at the winner the role of winners who have won there,
Speaker 1: it's just only quality players in history. So, um, it
Speaker 1: should be a good quach, should me it should be
Speaker 1: a great tournament, I imagine. Okay, I mean everyone quick second, Jeff.
Speaker 1: Something that's extraordinary to me about you and some of
Speaker 1: your during brethren, but not all of them. You can
Speaker 1: go to a golf course once and remember it forever,
Speaker 1: Like you know here you are, it's been years since
Speaker 1: you've been there. It hasn't been years since you've been
Speaker 1: there two thousand seven. Yeah, okay, how well can you
Speaker 1: actually remember this course in your mind's eye? You know
Speaker 1: what I was thinking about that this week? I remember
Speaker 1: most of it. I mean I probably can't remember sort
Speaker 1: of like the little details and stuff, but I kind
Speaker 1: of read through the holes in my head. Probably can't
Speaker 1: really remember sort of yardages of holes or really clubs
Speaker 1: and stuff that I was hitting, but I sort of
Speaker 1: remember the general sort of shape holes and where they went,
Speaker 1: the really difficult stuff. I remember how brutally difficult eighteen was,
Speaker 1: how happy you were to make par up eighteen Um?
Speaker 1: Just yeah, I mean, look, it's it was. If I
Speaker 1: went back there, I would remember every detail when I
Speaker 1: was there. It's sort of like you have this database
Speaker 1: in your head, and like when you're away from and
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it for a while, you sort of
Speaker 1: have vague memories. But as soon as I drove up
Speaker 1: the driveway, I would remember more, and I'd get on
Speaker 1: the range and I remember more, And as sin as
Speaker 1: you get down the first you remember more. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. We have these sort of filing cabinets in
Speaker 1: our head that sort of you have all this detail
Speaker 1: in there, and as soon as it gets presented in
Speaker 1: front of you, I'd probably start remembering shots I hit
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven. Funnily enough, I would think, So,
Speaker 1: you're right. I think that sort of happened. When you're
Speaker 1: so involved in what you're doing and you're paying so
Speaker 1: much attention, you're so intense and what you do, it
Speaker 1: burns it a little bit deeper into their memory. Um,
Speaker 1: So you guys sort of wander around and you're more
Speaker 1: watching the the shots and the drama that's happening. We're
Speaker 1: actually trying to, um, sort of play the course really well.
Speaker 1: So I think we get a bit more invested in
Speaker 1: actually what's going on on the course. I think that's
Speaker 1: probably why, Jeff, have you been to Prairie Dunes and
Speaker 1: another great course here in the Midwest. I haven't. No,
Speaker 1: I've heard lots of good reports. I mean, Michael Cocking,
Speaker 1: my design part one of my design partners. He's he's
Speaker 1: been talking glowingly. He visited there pretty recently and he
Speaker 1: really really enjoyed the place. So I think it's, um
Speaker 1: that's one of the best courses in the Midwest, right,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I think it might be the
Speaker 1: best course in the United States. I was just there
Speaker 1: for the first time in the last year, and it's
Speaker 1: absolutely monumental golf course and just an incredible test. It
Speaker 1: was too much golf course from me, but um, it
Speaker 1: was just it was like Royal Dornick kind of greens
Speaker 1: and these amazing dunes and just just phenomenal. And where
Speaker 1: I'm going with this is Perry Maxwell design that he
Speaker 1: did Southern Hills, and he's a guy who's never really
Speaker 1: talked about in the pantheon of these these great old architects.
Speaker 1: Do you have any any any sense for for Maxwell,
Speaker 1: any any any inside and into his work? Not really,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, I know Perry Jones is probably his best.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're probably the first person who's ever said
Speaker 1: they think Perry Jones is the best course in America. Umbly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have only ever heard great things. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's an incredible place. It's kind of in a
Speaker 1: really unlikely place for a great course to um, kind
Speaker 1: of a little bit in the middle of I wear,
Speaker 1: and you don't really expect it, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you've got this sort of golf utopia link style
Speaker 1: golf course in the middle of America, which is pretty interesting. Um. No,
Speaker 1: but he did a lot of great stuff in Southern
Speaker 1: Hills is probably a on with Parry Jones. Is two
Speaker 1: sort of most famous ones. I think, Um, Southern Hills
Speaker 1: has had all the Gulf tournaments. Um. And I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know how much Southern Hills has kind of
Speaker 1: evolved since those times. Um. But it's such an incredible property.
Speaker 1: It's got that great undulation and the great it's got
Speaker 1: such a great piece of property, and it's just it's
Speaker 1: got a very grand feel about it. Um. And it
Speaker 1: feels like even we just you're in the clubhouse, it's
Speaker 1: very it's very important feeling place, you know. Um. And
Speaker 1: it's it's just a natural venue. It just feels like
Speaker 1: a great venue for a big tournament. You alluded to
Speaker 1: it earlier with the work that Gil Hans has done
Speaker 1: on Southern Hills, and they really are trying to accentuate
Speaker 1: the greens and the surrounds, and it doesn't have that
Speaker 1: long rough framing the greens like a lot of US
Speaker 1: major championship venues, and the ball is going to run
Speaker 1: away from the whole if you had a bad shot.
Speaker 1: And when when you when you bring short game like
Speaker 1: that back to a major championship set up, what does
Speaker 1: that do to the players who are already on edge
Speaker 1: where it's a big week and it's a challenging venue.
Speaker 1: But now knowing that you're gonna have to hit all
Speaker 1: these different shots and you're gonna have to decide what
Speaker 1: kind of shots hit every time you misagree, how much
Speaker 1: does that, you know, turn up the volume on the test?
Speaker 1: I think a lot. I mean, obviously, the trend for
Speaker 1: a very long time was to just sort of ring
Speaker 1: fence the course and really deep, longest rough that you
Speaker 1: could get away with that sort of ultimately punish every
Speaker 1: bad shot and reward anything on short grass and punish
Speaker 1: anything away from that. We've seen it drifting gradually sort
Speaker 1: of in the last ten fift twenty years um sort
Speaker 1: of Pinehurst maybe one of the first ones that dip
Speaker 1: the toe into changing that sort of style. Um, having
Speaker 1: more short grass, and we've seen more and more and
Speaker 1: more of it. It's just it's a it's a more
Speaker 1: complete test, I mean, funnily enough, I mean outside of
Speaker 1: tours circles. Most people probably don't really understand this, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pros who don't love chipping off
Speaker 1: short grass. Um. It's sort of the ultimate test of
Speaker 1: a short game. You'll you go from generally a long,
Speaker 1: rough golf course that we've played traditionally in majors and
Speaker 1: maybe it's just a normal sort of PG to a
Speaker 1: set up as long rough. As you get the sixty
Speaker 1: degree out or you get your the most lofted worge
Speaker 1: out you can, you can almost pull it out on
Speaker 1: the fairway when you've missed a ground and walk up
Speaker 1: because you know that's the club you're gonna hit. You
Speaker 1: go short grass one. Like you say, the ball can
Speaker 1: run and never stop, which is sort of part of
Speaker 1: the charm of adds to the challenge sort of coming
Speaker 1: into the greens is that you really have to think
Speaker 1: where you're landing this too. I really want to land
Speaker 1: this back near the pin, because if it goes over
Speaker 1: the back, who knows what it's going to end and
Speaker 1: to the short game. You can play any club from
Speaker 1: realistically any club from three wood two, putter off short grass,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe even driver, because you can play fourteen
Speaker 1: clubs around the greens, and that leaves choice, and I
Speaker 1: sometimes think pros don't really enjoy choice. I think they're
Speaker 1: like being told, just hit the sixty and get good
Speaker 1: at this shot. I mean, all of a sudden, they
Speaker 1: can hit a five iron, they could bump it with
Speaker 1: a hybrid, they could putter, they could get the sixty out,
Speaker 1: they could sort of get the pitching wedge out. They
Speaker 1: can do all sorts of any all manner of staff.
Speaker 1: And we see that the Masters every year sort of
Speaker 1: the sort of confusion and in decision around the greens
Speaker 1: when they're chipping, and I think whenever you see that,
Speaker 1: I think it's compelling to watch. I always enjoyed it
Speaker 1: the most. And in Melbourne golf is generally a short
Speaker 1: grass sort of place. Around the greens, you're either in
Speaker 1: a bunker or short grass, and so we grew up
Speaker 1: chipping short grass, and I am the other way around.
Speaker 1: I took a really long time to get used to
Speaker 1: chipping out of a long rough and hated it. At
Speaker 1: first and gradually got used to it, and then after
Speaker 1: a while realized that the long rough is actually easier
Speaker 1: generally to chip out of than short grass because it's
Speaker 1: the same sort of shot every single time, whereas the
Speaker 1: short grass. Yeah, one, the green isn't ring fenced and
Speaker 1: so you can't be quite as aggressive into the grain
Speaker 1: because of where it can go when it misses, and
Speaker 1: too you're sort of left with these tight little lies
Speaker 1: that you don't really want to pull too much loft
Speaker 1: out of, but you're really not used to and we
Speaker 1: just don't practice bump and runs like they probably in
Speaker 1: it in days years gone by. So um, I really
Speaker 1: I think it's just a much more compelling sort of
Speaker 1: style of golf to watch the best players in the
Speaker 1: world player, especially around great greens like Southern hills. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's slopes and pitch and I'm sure they'll be very
Speaker 1: fast and there'll be a bounce on them. So usually
Speaker 1: a sign are usually a setup that will bring the
Speaker 1: imagination and the great short games out, and you have
Speaker 1: to be much it's the strategy. It's a knock on effect.
Speaker 1: Back up the strategy because you've got to be coming
Speaker 1: in from the right spot so you don't miss it
Speaker 1: in the wrong spot, and then you've got to hit
Speaker 1: your t shirt in into the right spot so you
Speaker 1: can hit into the right spot on the green. So
Speaker 1: it's sort of the short grass around the greens and
Speaker 1: the firmness and the ability for the course to sort
Speaker 1: of repel the ball away sort of reverberates all the
Speaker 1: way back to the tea, which is why the Southern Hills,
Speaker 1: like a week like this or the Masters can get
Speaker 1: away with such wide fairways because there's really only sections
Speaker 1: of those fairways you want to be on if you
Speaker 1: want to successfully sort of navigate around, if you know how.
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of Turan pros will say, well,
Speaker 1: I treat the Majors just like any other week. We
Speaker 1: don't alan and I don't I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think you do. Why do we focus so much on
Speaker 1: a golf on a golf course when we get to
Speaker 1: a major? What it is about major venues that eliminate
Speaker 1: a lot of the field because it takes a certain
Speaker 1: type of golfing intelligence just to figure out the golf
Speaker 1: course quickly enough to be able to produce two eighty
Speaker 1: year lower by the end of the week. UM A
Speaker 1: few things there one eye, whether they tell you that
Speaker 1: or not, I'm pretty confident most players don't treat majors
Speaker 1: like it's any other way. They might say that UM
Speaker 1: to sort of try to take some pressure off themselves,
Speaker 1: but they certainly don't know. I think that's actually not
Speaker 1: the correct approach. I always enjoyed ramping it up and
Speaker 1: leveling it up, and like, this is actually why I
Speaker 1: play golf. Let's go, you know. I think that's if
Speaker 1: you're not ready for that, you're not ready to win one,
Speaker 1: you know. I think you could have need the big show.
Speaker 1: And I think the guys that win these the guys
Speaker 1: like Ram and Tiger and um Colin and these guys,
Speaker 1: they know they're bigger weeks, you know, and it's it's
Speaker 1: more important to them. UM. Two, I think the golf
Speaker 1: course gets talked about so much. One because we generally
Speaker 1: go to really historic, great venues that don't You don't
Speaker 1: generally see Southern Hills in UM or Southern Hills level golf. Tom,
Speaker 1: it's on the PGR. Two. You know, we have Riviera
Speaker 1: every year, which is great, and you have Pebble, but
Speaker 1: Pebble is completely different in February than the US open Um.
Speaker 1: I think they're more interesting venues in general, because the
Speaker 1: PGA and the U s J and the R and
Speaker 1: A they pick, They picked venues that do that sort
Speaker 1: of have that historic sort of thing. But mostly I
Speaker 1: think we talked so much about them because there's so
Speaker 1: much airtime created around majors, and we've just got more
Speaker 1: to talk about. So we just run out of time
Speaker 1: talking about players, and we're going to talk about something now.
Speaker 1: So true. I was telling my kids that I was
Speaker 1: coming to Oklahoma, like, why on earth are you going
Speaker 1: to Homa Because there's one really really great golf course there.
Speaker 1: There's no other reason. And uh, but you're right, I
Speaker 1: mean it becomes uh, it's an event. You know, the
Speaker 1: majors don't get to the Midwest very often, and they
Speaker 1: don't get to that, you know, Oklahoma except for southern hills.
Speaker 1: And so not only is the golf course a big
Speaker 1: time but the atmosphere, you know. I went out there
Speaker 1: yesterday kind of late afternoon, early evening and Scottie Scheffler
Speaker 1: was putting on a practice screen by himself and it
Speaker 1: was encircled by two people. It felt like and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, that's Monday, this Monday evening. You just don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get that kind of action on Monday at
Speaker 1: at a tour event. But you know, there's a feeling
Speaker 1: of if you're from this part of the world, this
Speaker 1: might be the only chance to see these guys for
Speaker 1: a very long time. You don't. You generally don't get
Speaker 1: the number one in the world practicing on Monday or
Speaker 1: either in a normal tour event. I mean, he will
Speaker 1: generally show up on Wednesday for the pro am rout
Speaker 1: and then God's flying on Sunday and flying on halls.
Speaker 1: They're they're all wake. Everybody rents houses as opposed to
Speaker 1: the normal hotel for a way. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: just leveled up. Everything's leveled up. That's why, man, there's
Speaker 1: no way that they's got anybody in the field is
Speaker 1: really trading this like a normal page a term and
Speaker 1: they might be trying to, but um, this family out here,
Speaker 1: there's management out here. They're all that they're all doing
Speaker 1: the special thing, and um, it's it's just a it's
Speaker 1: a big, big wakes. And that's again when the best
Speaker 1: players in the world are drawing their best and I've
Speaker 1: been preparing for something that usually creates something really interesting
Speaker 1: to watch. Alan, just a quick note about your kids
Speaker 1: and why are you going to Oklahoma? I love this
Speaker 1: about going to majors, especially if you go to Rochester
Speaker 1: and and go to the oak Hill Course of the
Speaker 1: Oakland Hills Course, or or Prairie Dunes or Southern Hills.
Speaker 1: It's like a hundred years ago there was a concentrated
Speaker 1: level of wealth in a quote second rate town. Not
Speaker 1: true at all, but that's how they might view them socially.
Speaker 1: The moment, it's like, we're going to show the world
Speaker 1: that we can do something every bit as well as
Speaker 1: as as any other city New York or Los Angeles
Speaker 1: or Chicago. And like like a church building cathedral, it's
Speaker 1: like we're going to hire the best architect, find the
Speaker 1: best piece of land and build a golf course. It
Speaker 1: is a monument to this game. And every city that
Speaker 1: had significant wealth in the twenties has the Southern Hills.
Speaker 1: And uh, it may not be, it may not be
Speaker 1: long enough to host the US Open or big enough
Speaker 1: in space, but it has when in there are immense
Speaker 1: points of pride, and especially when it's a country club.
Speaker 1: Even though we are all drawn to golf clubs golf clubs,
Speaker 1: but the country club is like, we're wealthy and uh
Speaker 1: and we're showing it off and here's our pool and
Speaker 1: here's our tennis courts, and here's our clubhouse, and here's
Speaker 1: our golf course and it's beautiful. Yeah. No, that's a
Speaker 1: great point. And and you can feel out on the
Speaker 1: grounds when when you when you arrive at these venues
Speaker 1: there there is a feeling of pride. And then for
Speaker 1: a lot of locals, they can't get to Southern Hills
Speaker 1: any other week of the year. So then even even
Speaker 1: if you're a Tulsa resident, you don't have an attachment
Speaker 1: to the the club, but like you say, you get
Speaker 1: to go experience it and you might bump into someone
Speaker 1: you know, and there's there's that whole energy in the air,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just so different than than a
Speaker 1: normal week. But I mean, that's a great point in Michael,
Speaker 1: that the neighborhood around Southern Hills is extremely stately. I
Speaker 1: mean beautiful houses. It really it's kind of has a
Speaker 1: timeless kind of look, but not big Mickey mansions or
Speaker 1: that were just built. I mean these places are I
Speaker 1: have been there for a long time, and so h
Speaker 1: there there there's a timelessness about about about this venue
Speaker 1: that's really appealing. Okay, we just got that awkward zoom
Speaker 1: pause or everyone's waiting for somebody else. It's given the
Speaker 1: jeffs on the other side of the world. I guess
Speaker 1: it's forgivable. So I was looking at your your your
Speaker 1: playing record in the Major's, Jeff you didn't you didn't
Speaker 1: play two thousand and one the US Open, but at
Speaker 1: Southern Hills. But that was such a nutty tournament, and
Speaker 1: you talk about the pitch of the greens, and in fact,
Speaker 1: the eighteenth was so severe that the U s J
Speaker 1: just gave up and said, you know, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna bringna mode this a little higher and it's gonna
Speaker 1: be slower than the other seventeen greens. Which it's not
Speaker 1: great in general, but it's really problematic when it's the
Speaker 1: seventies second hole. And if you remember Mark Brooks, Ratief
Speaker 1: Goose and Stewart's saying, all kinds of craziness happened there
Speaker 1: on that last green um and I think they took
Speaker 1: nine punch between them, and it was just a monumental
Speaker 1: cock up. The whole thing. Uh, And it's not really
Speaker 1: talked about that often when when you go through the
Speaker 1: the great U. S. G blunders of the twenty one century.
Speaker 1: But that was a big one. And um, Michael were
Speaker 1: you were you in at Southern Hills that week? Was
Speaker 1: that was? I mean, I was in the locker room
Speaker 1: with Mark Brooks. He was packing up and getting ready
Speaker 1: to go, and then all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: the everything, everything flipped there in the last half hour
Speaker 1: and he had new life. But um, you know, Ratief
Speaker 1: Goosen that that was actually one of the great reporting
Speaker 1: challenges of my career because everyone knew he had been
Speaker 1: struck by lightning, but no one really knew the details.
Speaker 1: And so every night I was staying up super late
Speaker 1: trying to reach people in South Africa because I got
Speaker 1: Goosen after I think the first round, and he gave
Speaker 1: me the name of the guy he was playing with
Speaker 1: that day, but he didn't have any other contact info.
Speaker 1: But so I was calling golf clubs and I finally
Speaker 1: tracked down the dude who was out on the course
Speaker 1: with Goosen when he was struck by lightning. And I'm
Speaker 1: still like, you know, I'm still haunted by the details.
Speaker 1: He said all the clubs in his bag, in Goosen's
Speaker 1: bag were melded together by the heat, and his clothes
Speaker 1: had been burned off, and the smell of like singed
Speaker 1: hair and flesh, and that Goosen had actually swallowed his
Speaker 1: tongue and was probably gonna die. But just pure happenstance.
Speaker 1: There was an actual like doctor in the next fairway
Speaker 1: who ran over and and kind of recognize what's going
Speaker 1: on and like with his finger like pride out his
Speaker 1: tongue and did CPR and um and gooson and Goosen
Speaker 1: survived and I'll never forget, like three in the morning,
Speaker 1: like this guy telling me all these details and um,
Speaker 1: so that it was a memorable we you know in
Speaker 1: so many different ways. But what are your take? Did
Speaker 1: you include the tongue reference in your game story? I'm
Speaker 1: sure I did? Why would I not? Yeah, I haven't
Speaker 1: actually gone back and read in a long time, but uh,
Speaker 1: that was that was one of those you know, that
Speaker 1: was kind of I guess it was early days the internet,
Speaker 1: but it was. I was just making phone calls to
Speaker 1: every golf club and that part of South Africa. I
Speaker 1: finally tracked this guy down. It was so satisfying, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think we're chief scus. Really he's
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame, but I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure he's ever quite gotten his due. But that was true.
Speaker 1: You know, to to three put the last hole to
Speaker 1: potentially boot away the the the US Open on Sunday afternoon,
Speaker 1: and then have the fortitude to come back and win
Speaker 1: in a playoff, and um, pretty incredible. What are your
Speaker 1: memories from that week, Michael? I remember the intensity and
Speaker 1: uh and I remember being overwhelmed by the golf course
Speaker 1: and how different the golf course is. I think I've
Speaker 1: been there twice before for Tour championships. I know once,
Speaker 1: and I think, do you think they had to Tour
Speaker 1: champions ships there? Um, I've been there before. But to
Speaker 1: Jeff's point earlier, it's amazing to what degree Championship committee
Speaker 1: came jigger a golf course to get it just right
Speaker 1: for a major championship, and it was very, very, very different.
Speaker 1: And it's Jeff may Well. Jeff was making the point earlier.
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach in February and Pebble Beach in June. It's
Speaker 1: almost like two different courses. And uh so so it's
Speaker 1: all very very interesting. Um and Retief, his great uh
Speaker 1: Retief is a real Hall of Famer, and I agree
Speaker 1: with that he uh he he doesn't get his due.
Speaker 1: And with with with all that in mind, I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask Jeff this question. When you look at this week,
Speaker 1: do you just say, we always hear the phrase he's
Speaker 1: a U s Open player, like like you are, like
Speaker 1: Herd of Strange was, like Indian North was, like Tiger
Speaker 1: of course was Big Jack Hogan. Do you view this
Speaker 1: week as, oh, a US Open winner, a US Open
Speaker 1: type player is going to win this week? Or is
Speaker 1: it a different kettle official? To some degree, I think
Speaker 1: a really good player will win. Uh, it's of course,
Speaker 1: it just requires all the shots. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's not quite traditional US Open this week, clearly. I
Speaker 1: mean I think you know one, it must have been
Speaker 1: twenty yards wide and well pretty narrow and fast, and
Speaker 1: I don't think I mean, you hit the US G
Speaker 1: a little bit there, which they need to hit every
Speaker 1: now and then on the eighth green there. But they
Speaker 1: don't think they had a choice, right, I mean, the
Speaker 1: mistake probably was made to not fix the picture of
Speaker 1: the green two years before the tournament I mean, if
Speaker 1: it's eight degrees or eight percent or whatever this green
Speaker 1: is and you you just can't have greens at thirteen.
Speaker 1: You know, you just can't just not going to work.
Speaker 1: So maybe they should have had all the greens a
Speaker 1: bit slower that week to match them all up with
Speaker 1: what they had to have eighteen, or to fix de green,
Speaker 1: or to chill the green out if you like, a
Speaker 1: couple of years before. But um, you create a drama
Speaker 1: and a memorable US Open. So I don't know, we
Speaker 1: mess up or genius, you know, one or the other.
Speaker 1: The and my other memory from the eighteenth Green was
Speaker 1: just Tiger Horse doing out his part for sixty two
Speaker 1: and oh seven. That was pretty amazing. But anyway, I think, look,
Speaker 1: I think a great player wins. I think anytime you
Speaker 1: have undulation, you have side slopes eating upside slopes, and
Speaker 1: you have requirement hit shape both ways, and you have
Speaker 1: the short game test you have there, it's going to
Speaker 1: be one of those sort of complete major winner sort
Speaker 1: of games. You know, it's going to be Mr Morico
Speaker 1: or Speed. It's probably a great course for Jordan. At
Speaker 1: the moment, I would have thought it's fantastic around the
Speaker 1: greens um, Tiger, clearly it would be a magic for
Speaker 1: Tiger and his prime. Hopefully you can sort of bring
Speaker 1: some of that sort of action. But yeah, it'll be
Speaker 1: one of those it will be one of the big dogs,
Speaker 1: you would think, because just historically Southern Hills has done that.
Speaker 1: And it does that because it all the IT asks
Speaker 1: questions that maybe not everybody has all the answers to,
Speaker 1: you know, and only really the top sort of ten
Speaker 1: or fifteen or so guys probably have all those answers.
Speaker 1: And um, obviously everyone in the IT will can probably win.
Speaker 1: But generally I have a seventy two holes sort of
Speaker 1: the crame roses to the top of a plaice like this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that Tiger and oh seven, that was really uh one
Speaker 1: of his peaks. You know, he we know what he
Speaker 1: did turn the century. But you know, Hankaney, Steve Williams,
Speaker 1: they've often contended, and Hanks has he's he's not unbiased observer,
Speaker 1: but Steve Williams is and he's often said that, you
Speaker 1: know the Tiger oh six or seven oh eight, that
Speaker 1: that was actually the best calf you ever played. And
Speaker 1: I one thing we haven't talked about is that first
Speaker 1: tea shot is so majestic. You know, it's really like
Speaker 1: the highest point on the golf course and everything just
Speaker 1: just falls away from you. I remember being out there
Speaker 1: on Sunday and, Um, Tiger just hit a bullet down
Speaker 1: that first ferry, but he held the pose a little
Speaker 1: extra long and it was almost like he was bronzed,
Speaker 1: you know, like he was creating his own statue in
Speaker 1: the in real time. And there's certain shots that he's
Speaker 1: hit throughout his career. I was, I was standing right
Speaker 1: there and that one just just sticks out and it
Speaker 1: was it was a phenomenal for four mints, from from
Speaker 1: start to fitness. Um, you said Tiger in his prime,
Speaker 1: obviously he had. He was a little more supple, he
Speaker 1: had a little more speed. But having observed him around
Speaker 1: around AUGUSTA this year, Jeff, do you think Tiger still
Speaker 1: has the short game, still has the hands that that
Speaker 1: he did back then? I mean, have you seen a
Speaker 1: difference in just the finesse shots. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we saw enough for the Masters to know that, but
Speaker 1: I think he looked pretty good. Um, he had some
Speaker 1: incredible short shots the Masters. I think the short stuff,
Speaker 1: he's probably been able to practice it for a lot
Speaker 1: longer like he's but he would have got back to
Speaker 1: that sooner. Um. But you're right, oh one, that sort
Speaker 1: of turning the century Tiger was just sort of perfection
Speaker 1: if you like. Um that Oh seven was a beautiful guy.
Speaker 1: He was playing a more attractive version of golf. You know,
Speaker 1: you were shaping the ball a long way and really
Speaker 1: sort of crafting his way around the course in a
Speaker 1: different way. And it wasn't beautiful gay to watch it,
Speaker 1: oh seven, You're right, Um, I'm sure he has the
Speaker 1: short game shots and in um in some respects major
Speaker 1: championships and the really big moments are a bit like
Speaker 1: riding a bike for some For someone like Tiger, you know,
Speaker 1: it'll all come back, even if he's not. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: quite a sharp and chipping around the green back at
Speaker 1: home he gets Southern hills, will be inspired and the
Speaker 1: pressure and we already him in nineteen Obviously it's a
Speaker 1: different Tiger now that in nineteen. Um, he gets to
Speaker 1: that back nine of the Masters, and he just looked
Speaker 1: like the guy who knew how to win a major,
Speaker 1: you know, out of everyone else in the thing. And
Speaker 1: I think that'll all come that all comes back, And
Speaker 1: if you can sort of, Um, it's quite the walk
Speaker 1: around southern hills. It's not just it's not a it's
Speaker 1: not a flat course. Um. So, and he says he's
Speaker 1: feeling a lot better and he's a lot fitter, and
Speaker 1: he's a bit stronger. So, um, if his body hangs up,
Speaker 1: he absolutely he looks like he's got all the shots
Speaker 1: that he needs, you know, but I mean mental mental
Speaker 1: sort of prowess or strength was always has always been
Speaker 1: his sort of best attribute, if you like, or he's
Speaker 1: sort of where he beats everybody else, I mean everybody,
Speaker 1: and lots of guys hit good shots, but he seems
Speaker 1: to do it at the right time and at the
Speaker 1: right moments, and that can often go with how you feel,
Speaker 1: you know. We saw at the Masters when he started
Speaker 1: getting tired, it got a little harder for him. When
Speaker 1: you get tired, your mental game isn't as strong. And
Speaker 1: he was always the fittest guy on tour generally when
Speaker 1: he was at his best. So I think the physical
Speaker 1: parts will be there with the shots. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's again. Has he had enough time to walk enough
Speaker 1: golf course, walking off golf holes and just sort of
Speaker 1: be fully fit and healthy at the end, like coming
Speaker 1: through eighteen holes every day and can he get ready
Speaker 1: for next tomorrow? And canna get ready for the next day.
Speaker 1: It seemed like at the Masters, you certainly had the
Speaker 1: golf game, but it got harder and harder during the
Speaker 1: week as he got tirer. I think, so hopefully he's
Speaker 1: got another six weeks under his belt of fitness and
Speaker 1: training and recovery in rahab and um not raason why
Speaker 1: he can't hit all the shots he used to. And
Speaker 1: that was that's that was amazing. Jeff analysis of Tiger,
Speaker 1: And I've always had this feeling about Tiger and oh seven,
Speaker 1: and Jeff particularly if you could just tell me if
Speaker 1: this might be true or not. They always say, you know,
Speaker 1: the tour player places one shot at a time, hit
Speaker 1: the ball, chase it played again, Tiger oh seven Southern Hills.
Speaker 1: I thought it was one of the greatest performances I've
Speaker 1: ever seen by a golfer. And I felt like he
Speaker 1: saw the whole golf course as a chessboard, and he
Speaker 1: knew ahead of time exactly how the whole thing would
Speaker 1: play out, and that if he did his thing, even
Speaker 1: though he was a great scoreboard watcher, if he did
Speaker 1: his thing, it really didn't matter what Unbles said because
Speaker 1: he was better than everybody else. And if he did
Speaker 1: his thing over the hole, the seventy two holes and
Speaker 1: the whole you know, tunnic of property, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: he'll win. Uh. And it almost simply like the game
Speaker 1: almost looked simple because of that. But that's in my head.
Speaker 1: I don't know if if a great player could would
Speaker 1: actually ever that way. But yeah, but he thoughts about that.
Speaker 1: He's certainly he knew what he was doing and he played. Um.
Speaker 1: That's what, of course, like Southern Hills does and it
Speaker 1: allows the best player to show why he's the best.
Speaker 1: And I think it when he gets to historically, whenever
Speaker 1: he got to venues or has got the venues like
Speaker 1: Southern Hills, it's he seems more inspired to sort of
Speaker 1: show off. Um. The most recent version was I think, um,
Speaker 1: Royal Melbourne last in the two thousand nineteen Presidents Cup
Speaker 1: and he just put on a clinic of how to
Speaker 1: play a golf course like that and he was the
Speaker 1: best of the twenty four players by a long way.
Speaker 1: Because it just he's just inspired to kind of show
Speaker 1: off and go guys, no, no, no, no, this is actually,
Speaker 1: how you play golf on a golf course like this.
Speaker 1: Just watched this for a minute, you know, and Southern
Speaker 1: Hills will do that, and like you O seven, clearly
Speaker 1: it had that. It was hot, it was a battle
Speaker 1: of attrition in a lot of ways on a golf
Speaker 1: course that demanded all the shots, and it was just
Speaker 1: that was the sort of thing that just lit all
Speaker 1: of his lights up, and it's like, here we go,
Speaker 1: this is me And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: a professional golfer um is a show off. Fundamentally, we
Speaker 1: want to show everybody that we're better than I'm better
Speaker 1: than you, and come watch because I'm better than all
Speaker 1: these guys. And Tiger has been the biggest show off
Speaker 1: of the lot. And that's the platform. You know, that's
Speaker 1: he's got the platform at a place like that to
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, so I think your analysis is right.
Speaker 1: I don't know whether he knows he's going to win
Speaker 1: if he plays, That's the only part I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I've never been inside his head, um, but I think
Speaker 1: he would have gone there certainly and oh seven knowing
Speaker 1: he was playing well, thinking this is a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to win another major. Because of course I just love
Speaker 1: playing it. Let's say that, Yeah, I love that. That
Speaker 1: reminds us something that I heard Patrick Harington say going
Speaker 1: back to CARNEISTI when you beat Sergio Garcia and he
Speaker 1: had he was short over the green, he was he
Speaker 1: was kind of making a mess of the hole too,
Speaker 1: and he had like maybe a forty or fifty yard
Speaker 1: pitch that he left himself with. And of course there's
Speaker 1: that that incredible grand stand you always have on the
Speaker 1: last hole at the Open, and he was running through
Speaker 1: his options and what kind of shot to hit, and
Speaker 1: he wound up, you know, hitting the low skipper. It
Speaker 1: looks like it's going to go way past the flag
Speaker 1: and then maybe on the third bounce it just stops dead.
Speaker 1: And he said he wanted to play that shot because
Speaker 1: he knew the crowd was going to be like, oh no,
Speaker 1: he's hit it too hard and oh hit the brakes
Speaker 1: and and you know that was the that was the
Speaker 1: reaction from the crowd. And I always thought, you know,
Speaker 1: even with the opening, the balance is exactly what you're saying, Jeff, Like,
Speaker 1: he chose a shot that was gonna be a little
Speaker 1: dramatic and kind of fun to play, and when you
Speaker 1: get people going, and I'm sure that on some level
Speaker 1: that that helped him focus on on the task at
Speaker 1: hand even more because it's like, well, if I screw
Speaker 1: this up, it's really gonna scold over the green or whatever.
Speaker 1: So he was You don't think about the showmanship aspect,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely a part of being a performer. It's
Speaker 1: a great insane Jeff, when you talk about that showoff aspect. Um,
Speaker 1: of course it's the other players and their caddies because
Speaker 1: they're super knowledgeable about golf. But is it also the
Speaker 1: spectators and the TV audience or do you think that doesn't?
Speaker 1: Does that factor in or or not? Do you think
Speaker 1: I don't think it's really like particularly aimed at anybody.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think it's it's almost showing off
Speaker 1: to yourself as well a little bit, you know, like
Speaker 1: it's um, certainly the other players. If I say from me, Um,
Speaker 1: if I impressed the crowd, that's cool, it's nice and
Speaker 1: it's fun, you know all that. But if you impress
Speaker 1: some other players, um, that's really good. Some of the
Speaker 1: caddies are fun to impress. I mean, I remember Squirrel
Speaker 1: was my caddy for a long time, and I go
Speaker 1: I really respected um his opinion on golf, and every
Speaker 1: now and then I would hit a shot that was
Speaker 1: really really good and you would just get this grown
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, like it was just you're just like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, that was my happiest moment, Like if I
Speaker 1: ever got the little grown out of him, Like as
Speaker 1: soon as I bully, oh, that's the one, it was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I did my job. That actually made
Speaker 1: me happier than almost anything. So I think it's general,
Speaker 1: but I think there's certain players. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: go and if you played potographer saying you hit a
Speaker 1: shot and you got a little nod in a little wink,
Speaker 1: It's like that was a pretty nice moment, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like to Toto impress the guys
Speaker 1: who are that impress you. You know. I think it's
Speaker 1: kind of fun. Yeah, have you ever have you ever
Speaker 1: seen that clip of Lee Trevino playing with Sevy is
Speaker 1: one of the years at Sevy won the Open and
Speaker 1: he's he's on this down slope in the faraway and
Speaker 1: he scorches this long iron that never leaves the flag
Speaker 1: and Trevino is like pure class baby, and U that's
Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. I mean, how good did
Speaker 1: that field? Not only to pull off the shop, then
Speaker 1: have Lee Trevino of all people be in your ear
Speaker 1: about it. Like, I love that clip for so many reasons.
Speaker 1: That's like one of the best clips on the internet.
Speaker 1: Because it's on five at the Old Course. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure touch a glass baby, And he says, as soon
Speaker 1: as he hits the ball and it's the five and
Speaker 1: it lands in a little dip and it runs up
Speaker 1: on the green, it's not only good because I've had
Speaker 1: good Sevy shot. Is it's so good because of Trevino's
Speaker 1: knowledge as soon as he makes contact that he knows
Speaker 1: that that's as good ash And almost no one's got
Speaker 1: that shot. Like the ball is not even halfway there,
Speaker 1: and Trevino knows it's perfect. I mean it's perfect on
Speaker 1: every level. That clip. It's brilliant. Yeah, Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: You know that, Jeff, that's so great. That is really great.
Speaker 1: With that in mind, like when you hit a perfect shot,
Speaker 1: but it does some weird thing, you know, it just
Speaker 1: doesn't bounce the way its supposed that even though you've
Speaker 1: done everything you can do, how do you prevent yourself
Speaker 1: from saying m F really loud or something, because you've
Speaker 1: got to be so mad at that point because you've
Speaker 1: done everything right and you haven't gotten the result. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's frustrating, but if you've actually hit
Speaker 1: a perfect one and it gets unlucky, it's not a
Speaker 1: complete I'd rather do that than just hit an awful shot.
Speaker 1: You know, at least I had a perfect shot. At
Speaker 1: least I had the feeling of hitting a good shot.
Speaker 1: I mean, half of it is just golf so much.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's just you just chasing that great
Speaker 1: feeling of the great shot. And if you have the
Speaker 1: great feeling of the great shot and if you don't
Speaker 1: get the result, that's pretty infuriating. But at least you
Speaker 1: hit the great shot and you have the great feeling
Speaker 1: for a second while the ball was in the air,
Speaker 1: you know, or you hit that incredible part that you
Speaker 1: know is in all the way and it just that's
Speaker 1: some crazy lip out or burns the edge, or it
Speaker 1: spins off the front of the green, or it's pretty frustrating,
Speaker 1: but it's part of it. I mean, I guess it's
Speaker 1: part of golf. It's what It's why the ones that
Speaker 1: do come off for so rewarding because they very rarely,
Speaker 1: do you know. I was playing the other night. It
Speaker 1: happened to be an old US open course. I was
Speaker 1: playing by myself, and I had a good drive and
Speaker 1: had a good second shot and it was a skip
Speaker 1: up shot there and I'm like, that's perfect, and it
Speaker 1: skips up and it skips up the hill and it
Speaker 1: skips a right past the flag into the rough over
Speaker 1: the green and I always lost it. And I'm playing
Speaker 1: by myself for nothing. It's funny, though, to be honest,
Speaker 1: when you're really on and you're really playing well. I
Speaker 1: don't think I ever had a shot where I made
Speaker 1: contact and you're right that it wasn't right, Like you
Speaker 1: just know it's right, you can you just know it's
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it hits the pit. I mean there's
Speaker 1: those rats, you see those ones a tori that flying
Speaker 1: the whole in the last tile, it's the pen and
Speaker 1: it goes to the water and stuff, and that that's different.
Speaker 1: I've never had one of those. But generally there's this
Speaker 1: feeling that doesn't come very often, especially when you're on.
Speaker 1: As soon as I would make contact, I knew it
Speaker 1: was good, and I was like, it just it almost
Speaker 1: never isn't because you're just so in touch at that
Speaker 1: time when you're playing like that looks like Tiger's little
Speaker 1: club spin. You know, you can tell when you watch
Speaker 1: a great player when he's playing well as soon as
Speaker 1: he makes contact, you know, watching the TV, that you
Speaker 1: hit it close. You just know you can just see
Speaker 1: the look in his eye and he's gait and his
Speaker 1: demeanor and just the way holds his follow through or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Um we generally know, not not when
Speaker 1: we're playing average, but when you're playing well, you know,
Speaker 1: you know it's if it's if you if generally, if
Speaker 1: you feel like it's good, it usually ends up pretty
Speaker 1: good and drop really quickly, really quickly. Hearing Jeff talk
Speaker 1: about golf is an absolute total illustration of why we
Speaker 1: love golf so much. I have never heard ensuring pro
Speaker 1: talk about tigers twirl and what it means to Tiger
Speaker 1: internally and what then we can get out of it.
Speaker 1: And it just shows you that golf and we love
Speaker 1: a lot of different sports among the three of us,
Speaker 1: but there's actually nothing like golf. That was just so beautiful.
Speaker 1: I loved hearing that. Yeah, no, I agree, what I
Speaker 1: was gonna say about you know, the early early Club
Speaker 1: Tworld And as you say, Jeff, you can usually tell
Speaker 1: when a player thinks he's stiffed it. But it's an
Speaker 1: outdoor game and you can get a gust of air
Speaker 1: or or the you know, there's there's so many ambient
Speaker 1: things that that maybe could could affect the outcome, and
Speaker 1: yet they're always right about it like that. That's what
Speaker 1: amazed me. You see in the NBA, you know there's
Speaker 1: some you know Nick Nick Young thinks he switched to
Speaker 1: three point, he turns around to the crowd and it
Speaker 1: rims out and but um, you know that's a controlled environment. Uh.
Speaker 1: That does amaze me, the um the accuracy of of
Speaker 1: the Uckey Club Tworld because rarely does the guy do
Speaker 1: that and then you know it doesn't work out. But
Speaker 1: there's there's so many factors. You know, you can give
Speaker 1: you a firmer green, you can get a bad balance,
Speaker 1: you could could be a tell. I promise you you
Speaker 1: can tell. Yeah, well that's a difference between Jeff and us. Michael,
Speaker 1: he knows that we're just hoping well. Differences about fifty
Speaker 1: thousand more balls and my shot golf shots in my
Speaker 1: life and you guys. Probably. Yeah, that's fair, Jeff. And
Speaker 1: you notice the elegant pronunciation that that Alan gives the
Speaker 1: word ambient. He has it his ambiance and Gil Hands
Speaker 1: he has his haunts. Uh, it's an ambient. People from
Speaker 1: Madelaide and Australia spake like that. Oh how do you
Speaker 1: how do you say Gil's surname hands? Yeah? I do, yeah,
Speaker 1: Gil Hands. There's a little bit of an Australian age,
Speaker 1: Tommy at gil Hands an ambient My bad? No no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: I like it sounds much more elegant. Yeah. Well, most
Speaker 1: people think I sound like I'm Stone because I'm cal
Speaker 1: forign you. So I'll take that. Um, you mean you're not.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not deliver you to say Michael, but
Speaker 1: it is am here in Tulsa. So this is a
Speaker 1: a quasi you know, preview of of this PG Championship.
Speaker 1: Should should we hazard any guesses about who's going to win?
Speaker 1: Or is that just totally boring and we want to
Speaker 1: transcend the conventions of this medium? What do you what
Speaker 1: do you guys? Think? It's up to you guys. I
Speaker 1: mean I sort of gave you my speel. I think
Speaker 1: it'll be one of the big dogs at the moment.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll I think Jordan's a good chance. I
Speaker 1: think he'll engage him. It's in them, it's in his
Speaker 1: in neck of the woods, you know, at least Mary
Speaker 1: region of the country. Short criss around the grant will
Speaker 1: help him. Um, dj has got to play well. So
Speaker 1: and surely you know one of these things he can't.
Speaker 1: He can't keep not like being up there in a
Speaker 1: major as good as he is, John Rame fantastic. He'll
Speaker 1: love the short game. Yea, Um, that's my sort of
Speaker 1: there you go, there my three he picks. I want
Speaker 1: to ask about Scotty Schefflers were we touched on earlier,
Speaker 1: Like he played so many beautiful short game shots at
Speaker 1: Augusta National, and um, he loves to move the ball.
Speaker 1: It just it seems like a perfect venue for him.
Speaker 1: Yet again, like can you out somewhart yourself? Like the
Speaker 1: guys playing phenomenal golf. He's in a habit of winning.
Speaker 1: He's he's met every challenge, Like he's such an obvious choice,
Speaker 1: But how how can you keep going back? The same
Speaker 1: guy or just the law of average is eventually gonna
Speaker 1: catch up and he's gonna have a little down period, like,
Speaker 1: I guess, how how long can good for him? Last? Jeff,
Speaker 1: I guess that's my question. The look and the only
Speaker 1: reason your hand said right on paper, Scotty cheff it
Speaker 1: looks like the favorite number in the world. It's again,
Speaker 1: it's a space neck of the woods. That's in Chefflis
Speaker 1: Neck of the Woods too, Right, He's going to play
Speaker 1: really well on the way and if it gets windy,
Speaker 1: he's going to play well in that sort of area
Speaker 1: in the country. You would think. The only reason I
Speaker 1: wouldn't pick game is because at some point you can't
Speaker 1: keep winning rush the lower of averages. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: he looks great. He'sbviously confident and so he's he's so
Speaker 1: much better every time you say him play than almost
Speaker 1: the previous time you saw him play. You know, he
Speaker 1: seems to be improving in front of you. Or maybe
Speaker 1: it's just that we just give him more respect every
Speaker 1: time you say him play. Um, maybe he's always looked
Speaker 1: that great. We didn't have eyes for it, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: But yeah, fantastic, you know. And I sorry with a
Speaker 1: form thing, I had the form, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I never had form like Scotti Cheffer, so
Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, I saw you curiously scribbling, Michael, were
Speaker 1: you writing down a name for that? I was just
Speaker 1: thinking about No, no, I was just thinking about when
Speaker 1: unlikely guys when majors, And I just quickly noted that
Speaker 1: now they happened. All the Open winners gen Van Developments,
Speaker 1: Hot Hamilton and Ben Curtis, um, no one was talking
Speaker 1: about them going to the week except for maybe their families.
Speaker 1: But they were great for that week. They were as
Speaker 1: great as anybody. Well, they were greater than anybody for
Speaker 1: that week, and then they might have gotten look at
Speaker 1: the draw for some because oh, I said, Jean Vanderbilt
Speaker 1: famously did not win his Open, but he did play
Speaker 1: great and at the end of the really, at the
Speaker 1: end of seventy two holes, if you you know, you
Speaker 1: are the co medalist. I mean there's a greatness to
Speaker 1: that as well. But I guess the point is that
Speaker 1: when you've got a field as deep as this field,
Speaker 1: with all due respect to the you know, to the
Speaker 1: obvious names, I think that I think the reason I
Speaker 1: don't really participate in this sort of thing is the
Speaker 1: joy of the things that see, really, who is going
Speaker 1: to do it? And I don't really find out much
Speaker 1: joy in trying to make a wild guest as to
Speaker 1: who it is said, when you've got a hundred players
Speaker 1: in the field, all of whom are capable of shooting
Speaker 1: whatever the number is, let's called to seventy maybe who knows. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's just part of the greatness of a real major
Speaker 1: championship that any of those uh could do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. And can we talk about Jean Vandervelt's
Speaker 1: put for triple bogey that he made to get into
Speaker 1: the playoffs like little curling, like six or eight footer,
Speaker 1: It's got to be one of the greatest puts in
Speaker 1: calf history. He has just lit himself on fire in
Speaker 1: front of the world and he has his deer or
Speaker 1: die butt and somehow he made it. I always marvel
Speaker 1: at that, Like after all the just to your point,
Speaker 1: it's bizarre that I wrote Jean Vandeveld as a guy
Speaker 1: who won an open because like sort of in my mind,
Speaker 1: he won an open um. Now maybe it's my great friendship,
Speaker 1: you know with Mike Donald, that's you know, that shapes
Speaker 1: that to some degree. But I do feel like if
Speaker 1: if you're the medalist or one of the Medals as
Speaker 1: a seventy holes. After that, it's sort of a crapshoot. Now,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a crap shoot back in the day when
Speaker 1: the USA had a thirty six whole playoff, because then
Speaker 1: after thirties SI sols. Yeah, the better guys gonna win.
Speaker 1: But you know well that they used to be eighteen
Speaker 1: holes spin Anyway, I digress wildly here. Can I just
Speaker 1: get to one point about you know jeff'son earlier. You know,
Speaker 1: I've never spent a second inside Tiger Woods his head.
Speaker 1: Something about Scheffler We can only guess at this, but
Speaker 1: at some point, after you've achieved what you've achieved like
Speaker 1: Scheffler has and what and what Jeff did at Wingfoot,
Speaker 1: external forces are going to get in your head and
Speaker 1: expectations will go up and all those cliches, and then
Speaker 1: the question really becomes who you are inside? Can you
Speaker 1: keep them at bay so that you can really truly
Speaker 1: stay true to the thing that's so that's so important
Speaker 1: to you. And from what I've seen a chef and
Speaker 1: we don't really know, but what what we do you know,
Speaker 1: quote judge these people, and we see him in press
Speaker 1: conferences in the rest he seems like a guy who
Speaker 1: actually can keep it at bay Um and keep it
Speaker 1: going for Well, that doesn't mean he's gonna win, but
Speaker 1: it does think I do think it's gonna mean he's
Speaker 1: not going to screw up through seventy two holes. And
Speaker 1: then how contempt? Yeah, can you speak to that Jeff
Speaker 1: about after you win a major and he's a little
Speaker 1: bit younger than you were, but comparable really, Like, how
Speaker 1: does it turn your world upside down? From just the demands,
Speaker 1: the endorsements, everything that goes into it, and then and
Speaker 1: that that feeling when you show up like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: should make it should be less pressure. I've done it.
Speaker 1: I know I can do it. But also you feel
Speaker 1: that now I have to live up to this new standard.
Speaker 1: So it kind of cuts both way. How how did
Speaker 1: winning the Open kind of turn your your your world
Speaker 1: upside down? Yeah? It does do, but it does go
Speaker 1: both ways. I mean, I think I think you can
Speaker 1: handle the attention and the the extras pretty quickly. I mean,
Speaker 1: the management teams around us at those points, I mean
Speaker 1: a pretty sound I mean, the tours and the tournaments
Speaker 1: do a great job, but sort of I mean, you
Speaker 1: know how much harder it is to start for you
Speaker 1: two guys to get towards number one in the world.
Speaker 1: So and it was when they were number ten in
Speaker 1: the world. You know, they get um fairly well protected
Speaker 1: and you get you sort of get looked after, and
Speaker 1: I think you kind of scotty sort of you've seen
Speaker 1: other players go through it, so you've sort of got
Speaker 1: a small idea of what's going to happen. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's sort of overwhelming and how big it was. And
Speaker 1: I took three or four weeks off, and then my
Speaker 1: next time it was like, um, you know, six, And
Speaker 1: when I got there, it was I expected big press
Speaker 1: attention and blah blah blah, and that was actually quite
Speaker 1: It wasn't so bad because they opens the Open and
Speaker 1: that the Digger was all the one they were talking about.
Speaker 1: So I had a bigger press confidence that I normally
Speaker 1: would have the Open, But then it was kind of
Speaker 1: fact to being the Open, you know, because it's a
Speaker 1: bigger tournament than the guy who won the last major.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, I think I found it harder at
Speaker 1: the normal little tournaments, just normal tournaments. I found it harder,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're maybe the only recent major champion
Speaker 1: in the field. And you get all the attention, and um,
Speaker 1: the one thing that really struck me the most was
Speaker 1: just the copious amount of autographs that you start start
Speaker 1: signing in that the ebayers who start putting all the
Speaker 1: magazines under the ropes and stuff you have to side
Speaker 1: of stuff that for me, I found Tuesdays and Wednesdays
Speaker 1: a lot harder than before. I used to be able
Speaker 1: to do it Tuesday and Wednesday sort of under the
Speaker 1: radar and have a really peaceful sort of practice round
Speaker 1: on a Tuesday and Wednesday, and that didn't happen anymore,
Speaker 1: and I found that sort of difficult for Meum. And
Speaker 1: as far as the playing, I think, um, I think
Speaker 1: it goes, it does. It cuts both ways. I think
Speaker 1: your self expectations up, but that always makes it challenging.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, it's a good thing expectation, but like
Speaker 1: the belief that you know you can do it and
Speaker 1: you're one of the only probably ten or fifteen guys
Speaker 1: maybe in the field at that point of one a
Speaker 1: major Like, it's nice. It's a nice feeling. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you get sort of coming down the stretch or
Speaker 1: you get into mixed on Saturday and Sunday, that you're
Speaker 1: going to be in a better shape than the guys
Speaker 1: who haven't won a major, you know, But it goes
Speaker 1: the other way, because you do if you don't have
Speaker 1: a very good first round or you're sort of struggling
Speaker 1: and start beating yourself up saying I'm better. There's I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be winning this. They're gonna ask me why
Speaker 1: I'm not playing very well today and all that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I think there's positive to negatives. I
Speaker 1: think there's way more positive than negatives. Scotty seems like
Speaker 1: a pretty um grounded sort of guys. He seems like
Speaker 1: the sort of guy who's going to handle it um.
Speaker 1: So I think you'll be fine. I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of guys that desire can change a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know that We've seen a lot of times that
Speaker 1: it probably does. It seems like it's going to happen
Speaker 1: with Scottie. But a guy win a major and that
Speaker 1: will be almost the last time and he ever wins,
Speaker 1: he's had an unbelievable turn or fifteen year run, wins
Speaker 1: a major and then it's kind of done. Because, like
Speaker 1: I mean, Deval was sort of the one you would
Speaker 1: look at. It was the best player in the world
Speaker 1: for four or five years, and then Bang wins, when
Speaker 1: I was like, what do I do now, you know?
Speaker 1: And then there's other guys who win one, like Jordan
Speaker 1: or something, and they look like they try harder the
Speaker 1: next time, and then the next time they try harder again,
Speaker 1: and they try harder again, and they look like they're
Speaker 1: more and more into it. So time will tell with Scottie,
Speaker 1: but I think it's it's probably different for every guy.
Speaker 1: Um it's certainly he's in a whole new stratosphere. I mean,
Speaker 1: you win the Masters, that's kind of the highest profile
Speaker 1: major possible, was the first one of the year. It
Speaker 1: gets the most attention and gets another one in the
Speaker 1: world the same sort of time. I mean, he's got
Speaker 1: a fair bit going on and his sort of head
Speaker 1: probably playing golf, probably a little bit less peaceful in
Speaker 1: his head than it was before. Time will tell. I
Speaker 1: think everybody handles it differently. I think some guys like
Speaker 1: thrive in that sort of environment and situation. I think
Speaker 1: some God sort of I don't really love it, and
Speaker 1: there's sort of everything in between. Um So I don't
Speaker 1: think there's any set rules. Really. I love that well,
Speaker 1: this is has always been been a fun conversation. Um,
Speaker 1: we're going to do this again, definitely, uh Sunday night
Speaker 1: after we have a winner, and we'll see how all
Speaker 1: these these themes have played out, Michael and any final
Speaker 1: thoughts before we send the reader's home. Well, listeners, listeners,
Speaker 1: excuse me, uh no, just the joy of hearing Jeff
Speaker 1: all will be talking about golf is a new pleasure
Speaker 1: of my life. So thank you for this. Jeff, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Uh all right, before we go, well,
Speaker 1: we'll tip our caps to our our corporate supporters at
Speaker 1: at Part Points who helped keep the lights on here
Speaker 1: at the fire Pit Collective so we can do fun
Speaker 1: things like like this podcast. We've talked about Part Points before,
Speaker 1: but it's a very ingenious little scoring app that would
Speaker 1: encourage all of you guys to check out. Um, this
Speaker 1: is Alan Schipnuk for Michael Bamberger Jeff Ogilvie. This is
Speaker 1: another fire Drill podcast and we'll be coming to you
Speaker 1: all week from from Tulsa and Melbourne and points in between.
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening. Put another log on the fire
Speaker 1: are we here? Is getting time