Speaker 1: Welcome back, Pillow, Ridiculous Historians. We are returning to you
Speaker 1: with a very glitzy classic episode.
Speaker 2: We sure are very glitzy and glamy and Marie Antoinette
Speaker 2: let them eat cakey. Okay, she didn't say that, but
Speaker 2: it's still fun to talk about. We are talking about
Speaker 2: a bit of a heist today, a bit of a
Speaker 2: bit of what do they call that, court intrigue? Castle intrigue?
Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah. Marie Antoinette had, like so many royals and
Speaker 1: celebrities of her day, she always was fighting against gossip
Speaker 1: and scuttle. But by seventeen eighty four, public opinion was
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent on board with her. It became
Speaker 1: completely ruined by allegations that she called her own crown
Speaker 1: jewelers out of this crazy expensive diamond necklace.
Speaker 2: This sounds about right. Let's just jump right into the stories,
Speaker 2: shall we.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. My name is Ben, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to welcome back one of my favorite people ever. Folks.
Speaker 1: Let's say hi to Noel Brown. Wait a minute, what
Speaker 1: was I gone?
Speaker 2: Oh? Right, I was gone. I felt really rough about
Speaker 2: that it was. I realized it was the first time
Speaker 2: that I had had to be out of a ridiculous
Speaker 2: history episode. We do an O show together, Folks may
Speaker 2: know stuff that I want you to know, or we're
Speaker 2: a grace with Matt Frederick, so being out of that
Speaker 2: one is not a big deal. I can play hooky
Speaker 2: occasionally from that one, but not this one, my friend,
Speaker 2: not this one.
Speaker 1: Well, you were sorely missed, and we have so much
Speaker 1: to catch up on about the Black Plague in Norway.
Speaker 1: And then oh and also shout out to our super producer,
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2: Was with us. He was there the whole time.
Speaker 1: Casey, what was what was that other one we did
Speaker 1: with Christopher hasiotis?
Speaker 3: Oh god, then this is the worst question because we
Speaker 3: never remember what we did ten minutes ago, the Black plague,
Speaker 3: and then we.
Speaker 2: Had oh that's right, yes, yeah, I saw the emails.
Speaker 2: I was set on those emails. You remember the episode
Speaker 2: that you did do better or at least with more
Speaker 2: clarity than we did. Well, folks, never fear, as we said, uh,
Speaker 2: Nol was on some adventures. Some stuff will be revealed
Speaker 2: in time. Very glad to have you back, my guy.
Speaker 2: I'm really glad to be back. And I want to
Speaker 2: say when I said I can't be absent from this show,
Speaker 2: neither one of us can. Well that's not entirely true,
Speaker 2: because we have the wonderful, incredible, very smart and well
Speaker 2: spoken Christopher Hasiotis who stepped in beautifully and I'm so
Speaker 2: appreciate that he was able to do that, and I
Speaker 2: was able to have my adventures and guilt free for
Speaker 2: the most part.
Speaker 1: And he's not only hilarious, but that guy's got a
Speaker 1: jaw line for days. He's got like a Thoor Avengers jawline.
Speaker 2: Boy does he ever in a fantastic haircut, and really
Speaker 2: good tasting food.
Speaker 1: I hope you're hearing this, Christopher, Yeah, it is true
Speaker 1: though he professionally speaking has great taste of food.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to get something air out
Speaker 2: something right now. Before we get started the show, there
Speaker 2: was a little bit of a Facebook message thread that
Speaker 2: was going on between me and Christopher yesterday about the
Speaker 2: movie Mandy. I chimed in on a discussion about one
Speaker 2: of the episodes, you guys, did I believe it was
Speaker 2: the Black Plague one because Christopher said that he absolutely
Speaker 2: hated Mandy and thought it was a terrible movie. And
Speaker 2: then he actually, in a later exchange, texted me they
Speaker 2: titled it Mandy, but a better name would have been man,
Speaker 2: these are one hundred minutes of my life I'll never
Speaker 2: get back.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I chimed in on the thread and said,
Speaker 2: you're dead to me, Christopher hasiotis dead all caps, And
Speaker 2: then I wanted to clarify that he's not actually dead
Speaker 2: to me. That's just a movie that I kind of
Speaker 2: go to bat for kind of a lot.
Speaker 1: On this side. We're on the same page. I'm one
Speaker 1: of the people who got it.
Speaker 2: In the theaters here exactly, I know for sure, and
Speaker 2: you know you're on my team. You're on team Mandy.
Speaker 2: But it's a hill that I tend to die on
Speaker 2: because a lot of people that movie was not for everybody,
Speaker 2: but apparently not for a boy Christopher. But I will
Speaker 2: not hold it against him, and he means, in fact,
Speaker 2: not dead to me, but very much alive.
Speaker 1: We're very much on the same page about things. No.
Speaker 1: I like that you're picking up hill to die on.
Speaker 1: I've been using that for a few months and I
Speaker 1: want it to be back in popular parlance.
Speaker 2: We were what they call an arbiter of culture and
Speaker 2: language my friends. Yes, sir, I think.
Speaker 1: I just get obsessed with things. I've also been going
Speaker 1: through this phase where I'm somewhat obsessed or I'm fascinated
Speaker 1: with hoaxes. I'm going through a hoax thing. You like
Speaker 1: a good hoax? No, who doesn't like a good hoax?
Speaker 1: Ben people who get hoaxed? Everybody else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So where does our story take us today? We are
Speaker 1: traveling to France. We are traveling to France, not in
Speaker 1: these our modern days, but in the late summer of
Speaker 1: seventeen eighty five, where Europe is gripped by a scandal.
Speaker 1: Everybody is watching the news. This is a thank god
Speaker 1: there's no Twitter moment, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. If I'm trying to bring anything back or at
Speaker 2: least make something happen, it's pronouncing the word scandal as scandal.
Speaker 2: And this was one of those. To be sure, this
Speaker 2: involved a couple of important things. One the center of
Speaker 2: this scandal was a diamond necklace of absolutely immeasurable value. Well,
Speaker 2: it was measurable, but it was pretty massive because it
Speaker 2: contained something in the neighborhood of six hundred and fifty stones,
Speaker 2: and it weighed twenty eight hundred carrots, which is a weight.
Speaker 2: As it turns out, I guess I didn't quite realize that, Benz.
Speaker 2: It's not just.
Speaker 1: Gold nose, camerales, rubies, precious stones, pearls as well. Nowadays
Speaker 1: when you hear a carrot, it was a bit loosey
Speaker 1: goosey back in the glory days of the seventeen hundreds,
Speaker 1: But nowadays a carrot is about two hundred milligrams, and
Speaker 1: by about I mean exactly two hundred milligrams.
Speaker 2: And what kind of what were the stones in question
Speaker 2: in this particular piece of ostentatious jewelry.
Speaker 1: Diamonds, diamonds, buddy, all diamonds.
Speaker 2: You gotta shine, You got a sparkle, you got a snap,
Speaker 2: crackle pop.
Speaker 1: If you're royalty, you go to diamonds. And this diamond
Speaker 1: made by the crown jewelers Boehmer and Bessange.
Speaker 2: Had gone missing missing. You say, see nice, was there
Speaker 2: some sort of heist or how does a how does
Speaker 2: a piece of jewelry of such price go missing?
Speaker 1: They say, we have sold this to Maui Antoinette through
Speaker 1: an intermediary, the Cardinal de Rohan. She denies any involvement.
Speaker 1: Moi that is, and everybody knew she hated the cardinals.
Speaker 1: She thought he was a real pill.
Speaker 2: She never would have made him her intermediator, used him
Speaker 2: as some kind of go between. Right, No, and he
Speaker 2: denies this.
Speaker 1: It's like Cheryl Crowe picking us to deliver her next guitar.
Speaker 2: Now we made nice with Cheryl We. I love Cheryl Crow.
Speaker 2: I love Cheryl Crow. Have I talked about how much
Speaker 2: I love the bongos on every day as a winding road?
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a really, really important use of bongos
Speaker 2: in popular music.
Speaker 1: I think she's a brilliant songwriter. And I wish she
Speaker 1: would stop sending so much email. It's really it's really
Speaker 1: getting out of control. But anyway, they had Maui Antoinette
Speaker 1: and the Cardinal de Rohan had this had this kind
Speaker 1: of ridiculous history Cheryl thing. And the question was why
Speaker 1: would May have asked the cardinal to act on her behalf?
Speaker 2: Oh, and I got it wrong. Ron did not deny it.
Speaker 2: Quite the opposite. He claimed to have had written in
Speaker 2: the Queen's own hand a letter instructing him to carry
Speaker 2: out this transaction.
Speaker 1: And she, you know, she publicly despised the guy, and
Speaker 1: she said that she wasn't involved. But now he's saying
Speaker 1: he has, as you said, no written documentation, and he
Speaker 1: doubled down on this, right, he said, also furthermore, a
Speaker 1: year ago, not only did she did she write and
Speaker 1: sign this contract for sale that is in my possession,
Speaker 1: but a year before that she met me in secret
Speaker 1: and Versailles.
Speaker 2: In the garden of Versailles. It's true. Why all the
Speaker 2: cloak and daggery ben, why all the clandestinists.
Speaker 1: Lay it on me? Man?
Speaker 2: Why? Well, here's the thing. It caught the imagination of
Speaker 2: the public. It became like this kind of this whole
Speaker 2: affair involving this necklace became this like almost theatrical kind
Speaker 2: of charade. Right, But here's the thing. It had real
Speaker 2: consequences that resonated through the French Revolution.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we should introduce another character here in this story.
Speaker 1: So we've got our players. We've got Mala Antoinette, and
Speaker 1: we've got Cardinal Rohan, the Grand Almoner of France Almonder Almoner, Okay,
Speaker 1: not that fun al mon e. R.
Speaker 2: I thought he was just like a proprietor of like
Speaker 2: tasty almonds.
Speaker 1: He's in charge of all the almonds in France, you know,
Speaker 1: every every single one goes through him and at the time,
Speaker 1: fun fact, ridiculous historians. You know how barbers were also
Speaker 1: qualified to be surgeons. People in charge of almonds were
Speaker 1: also qualified to be in charge of diamonds because they're
Speaker 1: both sort of small and stonelike.
Speaker 2: Qualified as probably a strong word. See where you're going
Speaker 2: with this then, So let's let's lay it out here.
Speaker 2: Let's let's lay out the players. Up to this point.
Speaker 2: You just did the two main ones. We also have
Speaker 2: the jewelers Boehmer and Massan. She kind of take a backseat. Uh.
Speaker 2: There's a really great article about this that's called the
Speaker 2: Necklace that cost Marie Antoinette her life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that was.
Speaker 2: In the Telegraph, and in it they talk about how
Speaker 2: from his place of exile on Saint Helena, Napoleon actually
Speaker 2: kind of weighed in on this after Marie Antoinette met
Speaker 2: her untimely demise. Spoiler dies, it's true. Yeah, it's in
Speaker 2: the movie The Queen's Death. He said, must be dated
Speaker 2: from the Diamond necklace trial.
Speaker 1: So Cardinal de Rohan was desperately trying to get into
Speaker 1: Moya Antoinette's inner circle. And the problem with this was
Speaker 1: that Moi's mother had warned her not to mess with
Speaker 1: Cardinal de Rohan. So it was sort of like that,
Speaker 1: justin Bieber song my Mom and don't like you and
Speaker 1: she likes everyone exactly exactly like that. It was exactly
Speaker 1: like that, and he was struggling. He had he had
Speaker 1: been caught making fun of Mali Antoinette in seventeen seventy one.
Speaker 1: It was it was literally like he made a funny
Speaker 1: meme about her and that got too back to her,
Speaker 1: so she swore never to speak to him again. And
Speaker 1: he thought his career was over. He thought it would
Speaker 1: never get a shot at Chief Minister, which is the
Speaker 1: position he really wanted. Until that is he met another character,
Speaker 1: one of the pivotal characters in today's story. And although
Speaker 1: her name is Jeanne as far as I can say it,
Speaker 1: I've got to defer to you, Casey, how do we
Speaker 1: pronounce her title?
Speaker 3: It would actually be Jeanne because she's got two inns
Speaker 3: in an e jean contest de la motte valois de
Speaker 3: la motte Vaulnoilo.
Speaker 2: We'll just call her Jane Jean. Is that okay? All right?
Speaker 2: We'll call her Jean John like.
Speaker 3: A yeah, yeah, like Jean Dark or something.
Speaker 2: All right, Casey on the case big time. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm never whatever. I'm never gonna be able to repeat
Speaker 2: any of that, So Jean from here from here on.
Speaker 1: Yes, she was descended from an illegitimate branch of the family,
Speaker 1: the royal family, and this was the dynasty that came
Speaker 1: before the Bourbons, and she had a terrible childhood. Her
Speaker 1: father was a hardcore alcoholic, her mother totally ghosted on her.
Speaker 1: She was taken in by an aristocratic family outside of Paris,
Speaker 1: but then she came back when she was an adult
Speaker 1: to Champagne and she was intent on getting her family
Speaker 1: land back, and then that plan fell through. She married
Speaker 1: a guy named Nicholas de la Motte. They went to
Speaker 1: Paris to try to get people to back them up,
Speaker 1: and it didn't really work. They got more and more destitute,
Speaker 1: and her ambition to establish herself as legitimate seemed worse
Speaker 1: and worse and worse. So she is in dire streets
Speaker 1: as well. When she meets Cardinal real Han.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's true. And this becomes a real turning point.
Speaker 2: When she meets Rohan, he was kind of into her
Speaker 2: and didn't really have any problem showing that he gave
Speaker 2: her money, and it's very likely that they became lovers
Speaker 2: despite his I guess vow of celibacy. Right, isn't that
Speaker 2: a thing for a cardinal? Isn't that an?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like everybody is supposed to use tarted signals.
Speaker 2: That's also true, and jaywalking is technically a crime. He
Speaker 2: told her that in order to restore her patrimony that
Speaker 2: she needed to go directly to the Queen. But as
Speaker 2: we said earlier, the Queen was not a fan of Rohan.
Speaker 2: He was sort of like a little Finger type character.
Speaker 2: You know, he was very considered kind of slimy and
Speaker 2: backstabbing by her because of his talking out of school,
Speaker 2: and so this was not necessarily going to be something
Speaker 2: that he could help his new young lady friends with
Speaker 2: because he really had no.
Speaker 1: Pull, right right, He had no juice, no suction, as
Speaker 1: they say in the wire. So Sean, we can only imagine, says,
Speaker 1: you know, what this plan needs to really just make
Speaker 1: it pop is a little bit of theatricality, Right, Let's
Speaker 1: go to the theatol with it. So she waits in
Speaker 1: the mirrored gallery of Versailles on Candle Moss in seventeen
Speaker 1: eighty four. And when the Queen walks by, Jean swoons
Speaker 1: and she is clutching her petition to get her land
Speaker 1: restored to her chest, and she's hoping that the Queen
Speaker 1: will see her fall out, you know, and that she
Speaker 1: will say, oh, no, who is this beautiful put upon
Speaker 1: fainting woman, and how can I help her? So she
Speaker 1: she essentially she fakes fainting, and the Queen walks right
Speaker 1: by and never asks who fainted. But this is not
Speaker 1: what she tells the Cardinal. Instead, she tells her lover,
Speaker 1: the Cardinal that the Queen had taken pity on her,
Speaker 1: had noticed, and that they had become b FF's Biffles,
Speaker 1: that they had become best friends forever, Biffles and Mauie.
Speaker 1: Antoinette was the kind of person who had this track record.
Speaker 1: It was totally within her mo to find and sort
Speaker 1: of adopt people, and she was somewhat reclusive despite this,
Speaker 1: so a lot of the people in court didn't really
Speaker 1: know her day to day circle of friends. And so
Speaker 1: now the tables have turned. Now the Cardinal is begging
Speaker 1: shown to broker some kind of I guess peace agreement
Speaker 1: with the Queen. You know, like, sorry about that meme.
Speaker 1: Sorry you found that funny note about you. I was
Speaker 1: passing around. Let's be cool, and she agreed, and there
Speaker 1: was a increasing correspondence between the cardinal and moy and
Speaker 1: the Queen promised apparently that he would eventually be Prime minister.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's a lot going on here. I want to
Speaker 2: take a little asign just because I was looking into
Speaker 2: this while you were talking. Candle Mass. It's a holiday
Speaker 2: that I was not familiar with. That is the day
Speaker 2: in which this original meeting took place, and it has
Speaker 2: a fantastic extended name. First of all, it is the
Speaker 2: name of the Christian holy day wherein Mary and Joseph,
Speaker 2: forty days after the birth of Jesus, brought him to
Speaker 2: the temple to be purified, and you know, the rights
Speaker 2: of purification dedication performed on him, and that's something that
Speaker 2: is in the Torah as necessary, and then that is
Speaker 2: actually described in the Book of Leviticus twelve one through four.
Speaker 2: But the extended name of Candle Mass is the feast
Speaker 2: of the presentation of our Lord Jesus Christ and the
Speaker 2: feast of the purification of the blessed Virgin Mary. That's it.
Speaker 2: That's all I got. So where are we at now, Ben,
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on here. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: take a little breath so we can collect ourselves.
Speaker 1: Well. We should also mention that an almoner, while we're
Speaker 1: at definitions, is just one who distributes alms, so one
Speaker 1: who distributes money to the poor, not almonds related. But yes, yes,
Speaker 1: So back to this correspondence. The problem is this correspondence
Speaker 1: that the Cardinal believes is going very very well, is
Speaker 1: all coming to him via She is dictating the letters
Speaker 1: to a local and they will call him a stationer
Speaker 1: at the time, like a stationary owner, someone who writes
Speaker 1: letters professionally. She's telling this guy what to write, and
Speaker 1: the Cardinal is desperate. He's like, oh, you know enough
Speaker 1: of this. Clearly we get along. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: be your prime minister. I'm gonna do such a wonderful job.
Speaker 1: Let's meet in person, let's meet irl. But the Queen
Speaker 1: always says, it's not quite the right moment for me
Speaker 1: to talk to the king about this. Just just you
Speaker 1: hold on, you hold on, And the Cardinal is becoming
Speaker 1: less and less patient, and Jean is saying, I gotta
Speaker 1: get some sort of situation where this guy at least
Speaker 1: feels like he's met the queen. Oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: she's still married. She's sleeping with this dude. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: she's still married to this other, a man of the cloth.
Speaker 1: She's sleeping with a man of the cloth. Which is
Speaker 1: that by the moment, is that the thing that goes
Speaker 1: around the neck is that the cloth?
Speaker 2: Or is the cloth? There's a lot of cloth there,
Speaker 2: and that probably weirds you out, doesn't it. You're not
Speaker 2: a fan of cloth.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, I'm okay with cloth costume.
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, I'm not thinking. I'm thinking of
Speaker 2: our mutual friend Frank. He's the one that doesn't like
Speaker 2: cloth and like like fabricy feelings. He's got a cotton
Speaker 2: cotton thing. That's it. You're you're more of the metal, metal, cardboard, cardboard,
Speaker 2: phone calls and any material. So yeah, no, she needed
Speaker 2: him to feel like he had had audience with the queen.
Speaker 2: And that's where in the unless I'm mistaken, then we
Speaker 2: get our Marie Antoinette doppelganger or impersonator entering the picture.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So her scally wag soldier husband
Speaker 1: Nicholas comes to her with an idea. I've been hanging
Speaker 1: around in the Palais Royale and I've been being kind
Speaker 1: of looche. You guys, remember I finally got a chance
Speaker 1: to use Lucia.
Speaker 2: Yet and trying to make Loosh happen. Bens, I'm not trying,
Speaker 2: it's happening. Yeah, I'm I'm not trying to do things
Speaker 2: man Yoda style. This is just happening. And while he's there,
Speaker 2: he meets a sex worker named Nicole Legui. She is blonde,
Speaker 2: blue eyed, and physically, you know, she looks like the Queen.
Speaker 2: She resembles her. He visits her, he gets to know her,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like carnally well, that kind
Speaker 2: of establishment, Ben, is it that kind of place.
Speaker 1: Well, eventually, eventually he's been hanging out with her and
Speaker 1: he introduces her to his wife.
Speaker 2: Let's also not forget that this was I mean, you
Speaker 2: can't forget this is a time where unless you saw
Speaker 2: the Queen, if you saw the Queen in person, it
Speaker 2: was going to be from a distance, and most likely
Speaker 2: the closest thing you'd ever get to actually see the
Speaker 2: Queen would be some sort of painting painted facsimile writer
Speaker 2: or a little cameo, a little cameo uch or something exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's no proliferation of digital images or even photography, right.
Speaker 2: So he introduces his friends to his wife. Is my
Speaker 2: friend Nicole. Nicole meets Cheng and don't you think she
Speaker 2: looks like the Queen?
Speaker 1: What do you think? Honey? This is why I've been
Speaker 1: hanging out with her, because I'm helping you.
Speaker 2: I'm doing this for us exactly.
Speaker 1: And so Jean takes to Nicole and we have a
Speaker 1: quote wherein she is convincing Nicole to take part in
Speaker 1: some sort of plan involving the Queen.
Speaker 2: So this is what Jean says to her pal Nicole.
Speaker 2: She says, quote, I have the Queen's confidence. She and
Speaker 2: I are as close as two fingers of a hand.
Speaker 2: That's an interesting one. I'm gonna try to bring that
Speaker 2: back and make that happen. Yeah, And then she goes
Speaker 2: on to say she has just given me new proof
Speaker 2: of this in charging me to find a person who
Speaker 2: could do something that will be explained when the time comes. Wow,
Speaker 2: that is very.
Speaker 1: Vague, super vague, super vague.
Speaker 2: So does Nicole agree out of a sense of patriotism
Speaker 2: or does she agree because she gets fifteen thousand francs.
Speaker 1: You know, there's no sure answer. So later that evening
Speaker 1: they leave and they go to the Lamont's apartment in Versailles,
Speaker 1: and still Sean does not explain the plan. Nicole says, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're being real vague with me, says, what's going on
Speaker 1: with the queen? I appreciate the money. Instead, Sean says, oh,
Speaker 1: it's the smallest thing in the world. You have to
Speaker 1: meet the queen, but you can't do it without a title.
Speaker 1: So Jean dubs her the Casey checked me on this.
Speaker 1: The barone doliva. God sounds so beautiful when you say it, man,
Speaker 1: Casey's on that case. So now she has a title.
Speaker 1: Nicole has been elevated in life.
Speaker 2: Oh and there's a funny little detail in that Telegraph
Speaker 2: article that points out that that is very close to
Speaker 2: an anagram of her own surname, which is Valoi.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of like, sort of like in all
Speaker 1: those films where the character is named doctor Alucard turns
Speaker 1: out to be Dracula.
Speaker 2: Spoiler Just so, just so.
Speaker 1: So, now Jean is grooming Nicole and dressing her up
Speaker 1: and she gives her a letter and she says, hey, Nicole,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lead you to the park of the Palace
Speaker 1: and then you're going to hand this letter over to
Speaker 1: this really snazzy dude that you'll meet there. I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 1: She did not actually say snazzy dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but surely he was very well dressed.
Speaker 1: Sure oh he was all snazz.
Speaker 2: He definitely was. I like that phrase too, snazz Oh.
Speaker 2: And then there's this perfect beautiful detail. It's just the
Speaker 2: kind of thing out of like a heist movie or
Speaker 2: sort of at least some kind of you know, grand
Speaker 2: caper of some sort, where she had to hand a rose,
Speaker 2: a red rose, over with the letter, and she's instructed
Speaker 2: to say to this snazzy person, this all snazz guy.
Speaker 2: He will know what this means. And the Queen will
Speaker 2: be there to see how the interview goes. She'll be
Speaker 2: watching from the wings. One must assume, oh no, no.
Speaker 2: She even goes on to say she will speak to
Speaker 2: you later, she will be behind you.
Speaker 1: So this is just his reality show. Is that sounds folks?
Speaker 1: This poor poor Nicole is given this fake title and
Speaker 1: she is literally handing a rose to a guy. No
Speaker 1: matter what he says, she's only supposed to say, you
Speaker 1: know what this means? Can you believe it? Anyway? She
Speaker 1: is on board. She is roughly a million percent on board,
Speaker 1: hook line and sinker. She is all about it. She's
Speaker 1: freaked out. She's going to meet one of the most
Speaker 1: powerful people in her country. And she's in the garden,
Speaker 1: the grove of Venus specifically, it is incredibly dark. She
Speaker 1: can't see anything, she doesn't really hear anything. She's just
Speaker 1: walking around in the dark, and she's wondering where the
Speaker 1: queen's hiding, and where's this dude, where's this all snazz
Speaker 1: dude that she's supposed to meet.
Speaker 2: So we should backtrack, ever so slightly at this delightful
Speaker 2: cliffhanger that you set up so beautifully. But Jean had
Speaker 2: been kind of dangling the queen let's say a little
Speaker 2: bit in front of Rohan. Yes, in terms of, you know,
Speaker 2: the possibility of him meeting her and making things better
Speaker 2: between them, right, or at least having him have that
Speaker 2: chance of a lifetime to worm his way into her
Speaker 2: inner circle. Let's be honest, this guy seems a little wormy.
Speaker 1: For weeks and weeks she's been sort of teasing this
Speaker 1: little finger of our story. You made that comparison earlier,
Speaker 1: I quite like it. And then he would hang out,
Speaker 1: just literally loiter around Versailles, hoping to run into Mali Antoinette.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until August twelfth that he gets word
Speaker 1: from Jean that he can meet the queen, but he
Speaker 1: asked to meet her secretly at night in the garden, essentially,
Speaker 1: and Mayu was not yet ready to reveal their agreement
Speaker 1: to the public. So he hung around and he actually
Speaker 1: did not dress all snazz. He was dressed in all
Speaker 1: black and he had a hat on. He was looking conspiratorial,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean totally.
Speaker 2: It's like the period equivalent of like a trench coat
Speaker 2: and some sort of fida. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: So he's waiting around, He's like, ah, there's going to
Speaker 1: be another fruitless night of waiting. The things I do
Speaker 1: to be prime minister, he's thinking. He's probably also thinking,
Speaker 1: I have so many alms to give in the morning.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, who runs up to him,
Speaker 1: Not the Queen, not Nicole, but first show.
Speaker 2: It's right, it's our girl, Jean, who really is a
Speaker 2: little bit almost more out little fingering, the little finger
Speaker 2: of our story. For sure, she is panting, she's out
Speaker 2: of breath. She's very upset, or at least she's flustered
Speaker 2: at least, maybe not in the outright upset, But she
Speaker 2: tells him who is upset, and that's the Queen. The
Speaker 2: Queen is very upset because she's so very much wanted
Speaker 2: to have this encounter with Rohan, and that's not gonna
Speaker 2: be possible because the Queen's sisters in law have kind of,
Speaker 2: I don't know, headed her off at the past, I guess,
Speaker 2: or you know, done a surprise walk and talk that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she couldn't get out of it, so he's gonna have
Speaker 2: to hang back Rohan. This is what Jean is telling him,
Speaker 2: and that she, the Queen, plans to skidaddle out of there,
Speaker 2: you know, put in a little face time, and then
Speaker 2: make an excuse and then abscond off to meet secretly
Speaker 2: to keep the meeting. But it's gonna have to be quick,
Speaker 2: and it's gonna be very close because they're hot on
Speaker 2: their heels. She doesn't want anyone to see this absurdly
Speaker 2: suspicious character because it seems like he's supposedly dressing for secrecy,
Speaker 2: but I would think he would be very suspicious looking
Speaker 2: dressed that way.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely true. He's trying to look inconspicuous, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's a point where you reach diminishing returns with dressing inconspicuous.
Speaker 1: Trench coat for doorra he went full trench coat Fedora.
Speaker 1: So the kicker for this is that she says, don't worry, though,
Speaker 1: the queen will give you, quote, unequivocal proofs of her
Speaker 1: protection and benevolence. And he's like, okay, okay, I'm in,
Speaker 1: I'm in. So Sean leads the cardinal to this opening
Speaker 1: in a clearing and he sees this figure, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of silhouetted in the darkness, and he also goes
Speaker 1: all in. You know, his heart's probably racing, he's probably
Speaker 1: really freaked out. He walks to this figure and he
Speaker 1: kneels at her feet and she, by the way, is Nicole, right,
Speaker 1: the new barone, And she is not sure what to do,
Speaker 1: so she just thrust this rose toward him, and she
Speaker 1: kind of hides her face with her fan, and she
Speaker 1: says that she couldn't remember exactly what she said in
Speaker 1: the conversation, but the cardinal claimed that he heard her say,
Speaker 1: you may believe the past will be forgotten. So boom,
Speaker 1: there we go. It appears that for all intents and purposes,
Speaker 1: this cardinal has met the Queen, and the Queen is good,
Speaker 1: and she has appeared to back up all the fake
Speaker 1: letters that this cardinal has been receiving. And Rohan essentially
Speaker 1: just really wanted to see the queen, and he saw
Speaker 1: what he wanted to see. A little bit later, he
Speaker 1: received a written request on this paper. This was always
Speaker 1: blue bordered paper because it was from that one stationary shop.
Speaker 1: He received a request for sixty thousand francs to help
Speaker 1: an impoverished family. And again, let's remember this guy's job
Speaker 1: is to distribute money to the poor. So he goes
Speaker 1: through with that, and then in the beginning of seventeen
Speaker 1: eighty five, another request arrives. Get this, it's ordering him
Speaker 1: to negotiate the purpose of a certain diamond necklace. That's right,
Speaker 1: thought we forgot No, we just set it up in
Speaker 1: a weird way.
Speaker 2: I was wondering we were going to come back around
Speaker 2: to it myself. Then I was too, So she gets
Speaker 2: this letter. There's a lot of backstory here, right, Noel
Speaker 2: gets this letter from the Queen saying, hey, set this
Speaker 2: up for me, help me buy this necklace. And the
Speaker 2: problem here is that these crown jewelers that we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: Boehmer and Bassinge, as you said, have been trying for
Speaker 2: years and years and years to sell this super ostentatious, extravagant,
Speaker 2: opulent necklace that had how many diamonds. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: like pushing six fifty six hundred and fifty stones, twenty
Speaker 2: eight hundred carrots.
Speaker 1: Huge, huge, again, extravagant, opulent, ostentatious, all those words, all
Speaker 1: the words, and they have been presenting this to the
Speaker 1: King and the Queen turned it down and they knocked
Speaker 1: some money off the price, but it was still considered
Speaker 1: too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was reduced to somewhere in the neighborhood of
Speaker 2: one point six million. And this is news to me, guys.
Speaker 1: Livre which is a different currency from the fronc, and
Speaker 1: that's the franc wasn't around until seventeen ninety five.
Speaker 2: So let's she clarify that. That's right. And I think
Speaker 2: we talked about some payoffs being in francs earlier in
Speaker 2: the show. Was not a thing yet. The livra which
Speaker 2: Casey being on the case, as he tends to be
Speaker 2: clued us into that that actually means a book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, booker a pound, Casey on the case, Thanks for
Speaker 1: saving the show man every time speak behind the curve
Speaker 1: of folks. Every time we do an episode concerning the
Speaker 1: French language. Now we have learned. We've learned to check
Speaker 1: with Casey slightly in advance so that we don't put
Speaker 1: over on the spot by saying. There was one episode
Speaker 1: where we said, hey, Casey, can you just translate this
Speaker 1: entire paragraph for us?
Speaker 2: And he was like, guys, I need a little a
Speaker 2: little time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't been modern French.
Speaker 2: I'm not just here like French monkey, you know.
Speaker 1: So you're right, it's very important. This is a currency.
Speaker 1: The cost is reduced. They still can't sell this because
Speaker 1: it's like it's like a gold plated ferrari, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's just a lot. It's too much.
Speaker 2: And how much would it have taken for something to
Speaker 2: be too extravagant and expensive for the Queen of France, right,
Speaker 2: not exactly known for their penny pinching ways or like,
Speaker 2: you know, keeping things modest.
Speaker 1: That's true, and so Sean sees this opportunity, and she
Speaker 1: talks to her buddy, the cardinal, and she says, hey,
Speaker 1: will you help the queen buy this necklace and the
Speaker 1: payment will be made in four installments over two years,
Speaker 1: and he is down to clown. He is on board.
Speaker 1: So the jewelers are overwhelmed with joy. They are elated.
Speaker 1: Someone is gonna buy this. The Queen is gonna buy this.
Speaker 1: We're gonna yeah, we'll give you the necklace and then
Speaker 1: you'll just pay us off in those four installments over
Speaker 1: two years. So on the first of February seventeen eighty five,
Speaker 1: the jewelers Boemer and Bissinge give the necklace to the cardinal.
Speaker 1: The cardinal gives it to Sean and Jean. What does
Speaker 1: she do? Does she make four payments over two years? Now?
Speaker 1: Does she say, hey, I was lying to you? What
Speaker 1: does she do?
Speaker 2: She just kind of books it with the goods? You know,
Speaker 2: she's the real puppa man in this whole thing.
Speaker 1: The guys are so say, I know I say it
Speaker 1: too much, but I love that film Usual Suspects.
Speaker 2: Check it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're absolutely right, man. She ghosts. And then on
Speaker 1: July twelfth of that year, the jewelers send a letter
Speaker 1: to the queen. Boehmer specifically sends a letter to the
Speaker 1: Queen and mentions the necklace. The Queen doesn't know what's
Speaker 1: going on, so she just shreds her mail.
Speaker 2: What's this nonsense?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: What is right in the royal shred? She says, that's
Speaker 2: a quote in her voice, And.
Speaker 1: The jeweler is not getting any word, and he waits
Speaker 1: and waits and waits, and so later in August he
Speaker 1: sends a letter to one of Maya Toinette's ladies in waiting,
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, you know, not to be weird
Speaker 1: about it, but I'm really surprised that you guys still
Speaker 1: owe me money for this necklace. You are you know,
Speaker 1: your friends, the Queen of France. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to like make this not awkward? Can you can you
Speaker 1: give me some liv Yeah?
Speaker 2: Exactly. And this is when the proverbial ish hits the fan,
Speaker 2: when the lady in waiting, Madame Campont, takes this information
Speaker 2: back to the Queen, who then is like, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: something's funky here. I need an explanation. What's going on?
Speaker 2: So in August fifteenth, right before a mass at the
Speaker 2: Royal Chapel. Rohan receives a convocation from the King of France.
Speaker 2: Right as he was leaving, he is arrested in the
Speaker 2: Hall of Mirrors and he's completely flabbergasted. Everyone else is
Speaker 2: just in shock. And that is when this news of
Speaker 2: this scandal was about to reach critical mass.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that is not hyperbole at all, So this
Speaker 1: becomes a huge to do a brew haha if you will.
Speaker 1: The Cardinal goes before the Parliament to May of seventeen
Speaker 1: eighty six. Surprisingly, he's declared innocent. They track down Sean
Speaker 1: and her team and they are arrested and she, for
Speaker 1: the crime of being a con artist, is branded with
Speaker 1: a hot iron and she's the hot iron brand that
Speaker 1: she receives is a capital V, and that stands for
Speaker 1: thief in French. What's that word casey volure voaleure thief
Speaker 1: a genuine scarlet letter. And although the Queen is innocent,
Speaker 1: her reputation is tarnished. You know, she can't walk back
Speaker 1: from that. She may have won in the court of
Speaker 1: the law, but she has failed in the court of
Speaker 1: public opinion. And from that point on, she really really
Speaker 1: wanted the absolute worst for the Cardinal, for Rohan, who
Speaker 1: she already didn't care for, who she already didn't care for.
Speaker 1: Great point. So although the cardinal was acquitted, it didn't
Speaker 1: help that the Queen of the Cune hated this dude.
Speaker 1: So he loses all his offices and he is exiled.
Speaker 1: And then our anti hero of the story, Sean, for
Speaker 1: this crime, this diamond hoax, is sentenced to be flogged.
Speaker 1: She's got the hot v on her and she is
Speaker 1: going to prison for life. At least that was her sentence.
Speaker 1: She later escapes to England and publishes publishes a hit
Speaker 1: piece on the queen, so she doesn't really feel bad.
Speaker 2: Pretty brazen this one, huh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she made it out, but the Queen didn't
Speaker 1: make it out unscathed.
Speaker 2: No, she never really recovered from this. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: interesting because she really didn't do anything. All this stuff
Speaker 2: happened under her nose. She was used at the center
Speaker 2: of this kind of like diamond heist as sort of
Speaker 2: like a patsy, kind of a weird fall guy. And
Speaker 2: in what way was she a fall guy? Well, her
Speaker 2: reputation took an absolute nosedive. Not that I mean, as
Speaker 2: we know already not the most popular government in terms
Speaker 2: of the incredible gulf between the rich and the poor,
Speaker 2: and the sense that these folks, these mucky munks are
Speaker 2: just living it up, you know, at the hotel Versailles
Speaker 2: doing their thing, and the rest of the you know,
Speaker 2: common folks are just scrapping in the streets for food.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like in ley Miz. We've seen lay Miz just
Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, but this just cements that reputation for
Speaker 2: utter moral bankruptcy. And as an article in Britannica about
Speaker 2: the affair of the diamond necklace puts it, frivolity, just
Speaker 2: this sense of the let the meat cake thing, which
Speaker 2: we know is not a real thing, but just that's
Speaker 2: what is encapsulated here in this whole affair. It's like
Speaker 2: they are so clueless, so out of touch.
Speaker 1: It's one of the this is but one of the
Speaker 1: incidents leaded up to what we call the French Revolution today.
Speaker 1: And it's strange because I don't know about I don't
Speaker 1: know about you folks, but I had not heard of this,
Speaker 1: I like many of us here in the US, and
Speaker 1: I had a sort of a vague outline or chronology
Speaker 1: of the French Revolution and the transformation of its government.
Speaker 1: But I had no idea there was a diamond heist.
Speaker 1: They should be telling more people about this in school.
Speaker 2: Everybody likes a good diamond heist. Everybody likes a good hoax.
Speaker 1: That's true. And this concludes our story of the affair
Speaker 1: of the diamond Necklace, or, as you said earlier, Noel,
Speaker 1: the scandal.
Speaker 2: Here's my question, Ben, how do you of fence an
Speaker 2: item like that? You go to England, you go to
Speaker 2: a different country, you sell it to another monarchy.
Speaker 1: Maybe you break it down and just sell the diamonds.
Speaker 2: That's probably what you'd have to do, because surely there
Speaker 2: would be apbs out for this thing across the land.
Speaker 1: I always wonder about Europe. Yeah, I always wonder about that.
Speaker 1: With art hoaxes and unique items, you know, like someone
Speaker 1: steals a priceless painting, how do you fence that? Who
Speaker 1: do you sell it to? Do you go on Craigslist?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never I've done a lot of
Speaker 1: things in my life, but I have yet to steal
Speaker 1: and fence priceless artwork. Hey, maybe twenty nineteens my year. Man.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing too. Are there like shadowy you
Speaker 2: know collectors that are the ones who are brazen enough
Speaker 2: to buy that stuff, and that's where they keep that
Speaker 2: in their secret gallery, right, that's like behind like a
Speaker 2: bookshelf or whatever. You got to walk in.
Speaker 1: It was a really interesting article I had read a
Speaker 1: few weeks back that was positing a lot of artwork
Speaker 1: we see in public museums is actually forged, with the
Speaker 1: real pieces being, as you said, in secret galleries.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You think that's likely?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure? But have you seen the movie? Can
Speaker 2: you ever forgive me?
Speaker 1: I think I have?
Speaker 2: Wait? Well, it's with what's your name? Melissa McCarthy. It
Speaker 2: was pretty recent. It's about she's like kind of a
Speaker 2: failed writer. Oh yeah, it's a true story where she
Speaker 2: got that best friend who's yeah, the British guy whose
Speaker 2: name I'm forgetting right now, but I love him. He
Speaker 2: was in with Nayla and I and some other Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But her whole thing is and this isn't a spoiler
Speaker 2: if you don't want a mild spoiler about this movie.
Speaker 2: And it's what the movie's about, but you don't know
Speaker 2: it right away. She ends up, you know, she's hard,
Speaker 2: down on her luck, and she ends up forging letters
Speaker 2: from famous famous dead writers and you know, socialites, and
Speaker 2: then she's really good at and she's really good at
Speaker 2: it and she gets the wit and all of that down.
Speaker 2: That's the same with like being able to forge a
Speaker 2: work of art, right, you have to really nail it.
Speaker 2: It's more than just making a copy. You almost have
Speaker 2: to have like the soul of the artist and be
Speaker 2: able to copy that.
Speaker 1: I would watch. I would watch The Affair of the
Speaker 1: Diamond Necklace were it a film. And speaking of films,
Speaker 1: let us do what are some of your favorite heist films?
Speaker 1: What are some of your favorite stories of appalling opulence
Speaker 1: from various royal families of time gone by?
Speaker 2: Let us know.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. You can find us
Speaker 1: on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram. You can
Speaker 1: hang out with our favorite part of the show, your
Speaker 1: fellows on our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. That's the one.
Speaker 2: That's the one, Yeah, the one we were talking about
Speaker 2: the top of the show, where you can follow the
Speaker 2: beef between me and Christopher hastiotis about whether or not
Speaker 2: Mandy's a good film?
Speaker 1: Is that what you guys were talking on it is?
Speaker 1: Why doesn't I saw what I saw him on it?
Speaker 1: I saw. He said that he would watch it again.
Speaker 1: But it's like, the thing is, I went to so
Speaker 1: much trouble trying to get this to play at the Plaza.
Speaker 1: He didn't even go well.
Speaker 2: He didn't like it. He hated the movie. He literally
Speaker 2: just wrote to me episode I told him about this beef.
Speaker 2: I said, this beef is now ridiculous history Cannon and
Speaker 2: he goes Episode one thirty two, the time Noel Brown
Speaker 2: revealed how historically wrong he was about Mandy. Now I've
Speaker 2: got I've got an ally in this fight for Mandy.
Speaker 2: I mean, you were there all along, Ben, But I
Speaker 2: think we need to we need to sit down with
Speaker 2: Christopher and set the record straight.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna be Sweden on this.
Speaker 2: I've never let someone else's opinion of a film interfere
Speaker 2: with how I feel about it, So I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: absolutely not. But he's really doubling down on this. I
Speaker 2: don't negotiate with terrorists. He's borderline entering character assassination territory.
Speaker 1: I did not negotiate with terrorists.
Speaker 2: That's fair. Was that like a JFK voice kind of No,
Speaker 2: that's just that's my real voice. Okay, got it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: if you want to follow this ongoing saga, check us
Speaker 2: out on Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. If you want to
Speaker 2: check us out on Instagram. We mainly just post like
Speaker 2: new episodes and stuff. But if you want to check
Speaker 2: out me and Ben's personal exploits, you can follow me
Speaker 2: at Embryonic Insider.
Speaker 1: And you can follow me at Ben Bullen. Currently, I
Speaker 1: am snacking on pizzerias or I'm about to, because this
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite long gone chips and I
Speaker 1: think I just found a way to get a bag.
Speaker 2: Ben. When I heard you say that, you said snacking
Speaker 2: on pizzerias, I was picturing you like like eating like
Speaker 2: all the pizza available, and.
Speaker 1: The building, like the stone, the benches.
Speaker 2: You're you're sort of like, what's that French guy who
Speaker 2: ate all the things? I think? I think gate a baby.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who eats babies.
Speaker 2: I don't know about this.
Speaker 1: Now there's a Brazilian guy who you know what we
Speaker 1: should save this. This is a story for another day.
Speaker 2: Hey, I just want to point out I googled French
Speaker 2: guy who ate a baby. His name was Terraar and
Speaker 2: he was born in rural France nearly on in seventeen
Speaker 2: seventy two, and his whole thing was he would eat anything.
Speaker 2: He was actually hospitalized in a psychiatric ward where it
Speaker 2: is conjectured that he possibly ate a baby.
Speaker 1: Well, there's also this goes back to the super the
Speaker 1: super stomics, right, the super eaters. That's right, there's a
Speaker 1: guy in Brazil who's done the same thing. And we're
Speaker 1: not talking about the survivors of the crash in the
Speaker 1: andes On. You know, the basis or the inspiration for
Speaker 1: the movie Alive.
Speaker 2: All right, I'll see you next time, folks. For more
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.