Speaker 1: Pushkin. F Gay Twigs is spent over a decade redefining
Speaker 1: the boundaries of pop music through her innovative blend of
Speaker 1: electronic production, experimental R and B, and striking visual art.
Speaker 1: Her album's LP One and Magdalen earned widespread critical acclaim
Speaker 1: establishing her as one of the most forward thinking voices
Speaker 1: in contemporary music. Last year, she put out two albums.
Speaker 1: In November, she released Usexua Afterglow, a companion to her
Speaker 1: Grammy winning rave inspired album Sexua that she'd released earlier
Speaker 1: in the year. Both of twigs new albums address identity, bodily, autonomy,
Speaker 1: and resistance. On today's episode, just hours before she walked
Speaker 1: on stage to pick up her first Grammy, I talked
Speaker 1: to F Gay Twigs about her experiences growing up mixed
Speaker 1: race in rural England and how going to Jamaican clubs
Speaker 1: as a teenager inspired her dance forward twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: mixtape capri So. She also explains why, despite being a
Speaker 1: phenomenal dancer, she's not a fan of TikTok dances, and
Speaker 1: breaks down the precise moment when all the forces align
Speaker 1: at a rave that have brought her to the realization
Speaker 1: that this is the most important moment in culture. This
Speaker 1: is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my interview
Speaker 1: with Fka Twiggs. Head over to YouTube dot com slash
Speaker 1: Broken Record podcast to watch the interview.
Speaker 2: My whole life is fucking moment. My whole life is
Speaker 2: like back against the wool, Like that's when you're like
Speaker 2: one way out, like to come out like kicking and punching.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: If you had to go back and think about it,
Speaker 1: when was the first like fuck it moment? Like when
Speaker 1: did that become a.
Speaker 2: Staple the whole of my life? Like I've always had
Speaker 2: the Yeah. My stepdad said to me the other day
Speaker 2: that he's known me for the whole of my life.
Speaker 2: He was like, he was like, you've spent your whole
Speaker 2: life in final flight. Yeah, he was like, you've had
Speaker 2: or you're just like ever since a kid, you've been
Speaker 2: in like fileflight, Like I've just it's just been like
Speaker 2: I don't know, like maybe a combination of like the
Speaker 2: way my life has been the stress of being an artist,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, but even going on stage is fight
Speaker 2: or flight, you know, like it's kind of do you
Speaker 2: freeze in front of an audience or do you come
Speaker 2: out kicking and screaming. It's like everything like even going
Speaker 2: on tour is file flight. Like even doing like a
Speaker 2: massive project, do you have that moment like before a
Speaker 2: big shoot or anything where you're just like, am I
Speaker 2: going to be able to do this tomorrow?
Speaker 1: And there's got to be with an album, there's got
Speaker 1: to be at some point where you're like, Okay, I've
Speaker 1: been tinkering or working for years, this has to work
Speaker 1: at some point, like this has to be the.
Speaker 2: Thing, right Like yeah, I mean I'm going through it now,
Speaker 2: like I'm at that point when I was speaking to
Speaker 2: a director last night and we were talking about the
Speaker 2: moment when you're at that point in a project where
Speaker 2: you've swum out so far that you can't see the
Speaker 2: island behind you, but you can't see the island in
Speaker 2: front of you. And I'm literally there right now, Like
Speaker 2: with my next music projects, I'm that like I can't
Speaker 2: see the island behind me and I can't see the
Speaker 2: island in front of me, and I'm just like, do
Speaker 2: you like bolt back and think like don't worry, do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Safety?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Or do you like go forward and finish it.
Speaker 1: Are you one of those people, Like I've heard people say,
Speaker 1: you're performing live, you get butterflies, or you get extreme
Speaker 1: anxiety or whatever the range of degrees of that is.
Speaker 1: But there's some people who are addicted to that, almost
Speaker 1: like adrenaline, as like an adrenaline junkie. Does it feel good?
Speaker 1: Do you enjoy that feeling?
Speaker 2: I change it around in my head. So sometimes when
Speaker 2: I'm really nervous, you know you're doing a big show,
Speaker 2: especially some of the festivals I did last year, like
Speaker 2: I'm performing a front of eighty thousand people, and you
Speaker 2: peek around the cut and you think, whose idea was this?
Speaker 2: I always think that I'm just like, I'm sorry, who
Speaker 2: so this is a good idea? And I'll get really nervous,
Speaker 2: And then I always say to myself in my head,
Speaker 2: and no, it's not that I'm nervous. I'm so excited
Speaker 2: and I've like got these amazing dance moves, and I've
Speaker 2: been practicing so much, and I'm so excited to show
Speaker 2: everybody this thing that I've got. And then I try
Speaker 2: and psychologically say like, I'm not nervous, I'm not scared.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to show what I've been practicing like that feeling.
Speaker 2: You know when you're a kid and you have lunch
Speaker 2: chopsticks on the piano and you're like, mom, Mom, what's
Speaker 2: just you know, like that kind of feeling where or
Speaker 2: you have a picture you've done at school and you
Speaker 2: want to come home and you're like, look at this.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like that feeling. I try and make
Speaker 2: myself think it's that, and it works. It does work.
Speaker 1: That's a great trick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just excited to show people, like you just
Speaker 2: can't you can't wait to get out there and show people.
Speaker 1: And then by the time you're on stage, is it
Speaker 1: are you super in your body, super conscious of everything
Speaker 1: that's happening, or is it just does it just rush
Speaker 1: by unconsciously?
Speaker 2: I think for me, the first song is always a
Speaker 2: bit jelly legs, Like sometimes I just feel a bit
Speaker 2: like I'm not centered in the first number, like usually
Speaker 2: with my shows, because I know, for me, the first
Speaker 2: song is a bit tentative. I tend to start very
Speaker 2: slow and then you sexually. I thought, I'm gonna try
Speaker 2: something different, and I'm going to try with the start
Speaker 2: with the biggest dance number. So I started with perfect
Speaker 2: Stranger which is like the poppiest song and the biggest
Speaker 2: dance number that required. I mean, it's not like a
Speaker 2: super difficult dance routine, but it's like precise because you're
Speaker 2: dancing with ten people doing everything the same, so it's
Speaker 2: not really like a lot of room to like mess up.
Speaker 2: And that was really interesting. I definitely learned a lot
Speaker 2: making myself go to one hundred first, but now in
Speaker 2: Body High, I'm not going to do that. Would no,
Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna actually, do you know what, it is
Speaker 2: still one hundred for me because Body High. In my
Speaker 2: next tour, I'm gonna start like playing instruments, which is
Speaker 2: something that I've never done on stage before, so I
Speaker 2: guess there will be like a lot of nerves, but
Speaker 2: I think I'm just forcing myself to like get over
Speaker 2: a new thing.
Speaker 1: Is that because you need to play instruments on this
Speaker 1: one or or is it just you want to feel
Speaker 1: like what would compel you to want to do that
Speaker 1: at this point?
Speaker 2: Because I play instruments in a non conventional sense in
Speaker 2: the studio and it's how I produce like drum machines
Speaker 2: and pads and analogue instruments and noises and like kind
Speaker 2: of like push them together into some sort of resemblance
Speaker 2: of something that sounds like a music or a beat.
Speaker 2: But I've never done it before on stage, and i
Speaker 2: think I'm reaching a point where I'm searching for autonomy
Speaker 2: as well even as an artist, because I've never been
Speaker 2: able to do this thing where it's like, if you
Speaker 2: are like Twigs, will you come and perform at like
Speaker 2: my wedding tomorrow? I would have to call a pianist
Speaker 2: or call my band or say I need to check
Speaker 2: who's free, you know, to help support me in that,
Speaker 2: Whereas I have the skill set and the ability to
Speaker 2: be able to do a set by myself, but it's
Speaker 2: been fifteen years and I've never tested that. So on
Speaker 2: body high, I just decided that I was going to
Speaker 2: start testing that theory of playing instruments a way that
Speaker 2: I do in the studio. But I've also got an
Speaker 2: amazing MD. His name's Matt, who is helping me find
Speaker 2: my way of doing that by triggering things and relating
Speaker 2: my in studio process to something that is on stage
Speaker 2: and makes sense, like beyond playing an acoustic guitar or
Speaker 2: playing the piano, how most like traditional musicians would do.
Speaker 1: That are so these going to be songs off of
Speaker 1: Afterglow or.
Speaker 2: It's the whole of my discography. Really, yeah, it's everything.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been doing this now for fifteen years.
Speaker 2: It's amazing because there's a song for every mood. And
Speaker 2: I think I've realized how diverse my music is and
Speaker 2: that's been really eye opening to me as well, to
Speaker 2: realize how many different tempos and genres and you know,
Speaker 2: I've really over the last fifteen years create created like
Speaker 2: such a vast sonic palette, and I'm learning a lot
Speaker 2: about myself. I feel like humbled by the amount of
Speaker 2: music I've created in different ways. I didn't even realize
Speaker 2: it until putting together Body High. Because Body High the tour,
Speaker 2: there's lots of different size to me. I can like
Speaker 2: dance and be a pop star in that sense and
Speaker 2: do those big group numbers. Then there's also some really
Speaker 2: experimental electronic music. They're completely like genre defying sounds and
Speaker 2: it's industrial and it's moody. And then there's a lot
Speaker 2: of like sensual music. And then there's music that is
Speaker 2: inherent to who I am, like dance, wall, em bashment
Speaker 2: and more rhythms that are associated with the music I
Speaker 2: was brought up on in my own black culture, and like,
Speaker 2: there is a full picture of who I am as
Speaker 2: a person, which is so cool.
Speaker 1: It's wild. I couldn't it kind of I went back
Speaker 1: and listened to your whole discography to do I hadn't
Speaker 1: done like I actually I had never done that just
Speaker 1: when one sitting Wow, but you say fifteen years and
Speaker 1: it did kind of shock me because and it's not
Speaker 1: that it's it's also that there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: eras of the music business since you've been around, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been a lot of permutations of what
Speaker 1: music is or how people receive it or listen to it,
Speaker 1: or how it's distinct. You kind of first came out
Speaker 1: sort of in a pre Spotify world, you know, and I.
Speaker 2: Sort of it was it was right. I mean I
Speaker 2: literally remember my manager at the time calling me and
Speaker 2: being like, there's this thing it's like moving like music
Speaker 2: streaming platforms, Like you don't have to go on it,
Speaker 2: but like artists are going on it now if you
Speaker 2: want to. And I was just kind of like, I mean, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: if you whatever, if you think so. I mean I
Speaker 2: literally remember that conversation of just like it's something that
Speaker 2: like I could potentially opt out of and it's not
Speaker 2: that much of a big deal cut to you now,
Speaker 2: that seems like a hilarious conversation to have, like opting
Speaker 2: out of streaming because it's not that relevant, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think I was probably quite late even to
Speaker 2: going on it, really, I think so, like I just
Speaker 2: don't remember it being a big part of like my
Speaker 2: first record, And it was only really when I did
Speaker 2: Magdalen that I kind of realized that I'd like not
Speaker 2: been working.
Speaker 1: It, like working the systems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was like I have any monthly listeners
Speaker 2: because I not been working it, whereas there's been other artists.
Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna get this wrong. I'll probably be like
Speaker 2: corrected whatever. But like I think Frank Ocean had done
Speaker 2: some deal with with Apple or some streaming things easy.
Speaker 1: He did a deal though, but I don't think it was.
Speaker 2: But I don't know he'd done something with streaming or
Speaker 2: like artists were at that time doing things with like
Speaker 2: exclusively giving things.
Speaker 1: Did something. He did something. His album was exclusively on
Speaker 1: Apple I think for like a week or Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it was something like that, kind of.
Speaker 2: Just working it like that like making everyone swarm to
Speaker 2: this one place to like support that platform or I
Speaker 2: can't remember. I just remember like artists were like doing
Speaker 2: cool things and the platforms were kind of like paying
Speaker 2: people to create, you know things. It's like in that
Speaker 2: early time, it's like, you know, if you don't get
Speaker 2: on TikTok or something in the beginning, then like it's
Speaker 2: just really hard to like get on it afterwards.
Speaker 1: Well you on TikTok at the beginning, because that I
Speaker 1: was the other big you know, like no.
Speaker 2: I was like, what is it? I still am terrible
Speaker 2: at it?
Speaker 1: Do you care about it?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I'm supposed to, Like I try.
Speaker 2: It's I'm so bad at it, like I mean, the
Speaker 2: truth is honestly, Like the truth is, I'm literally almost
Speaker 2: forty and like I just like the.
Speaker 1: Kick in.
Speaker 2: I'm just like just like I mean, I do it
Speaker 2: like it's fun. If I feel too, Like I don't
Speaker 2: you like to dance your day?
Speaker 1: You love? But I like to.
Speaker 2: Dance and like I'm gonna train woosh you sword for
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna like become a black belt at or
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I like to dance like I'm gonna become
Speaker 2: a pole dancer, and there's this trick where you like
Speaker 2: hang off your ankle and like hold on to your
Speaker 2: foot and fucking spin around.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Like I'm like, I don't even like to dance. I
Speaker 2: like to just do very extreme things with my body
Speaker 2: under my rules of things that I want to do
Speaker 2: in terms of like TikTok dancing, Like it's a very
Speaker 2: like it's a very like specific way of moving because
Speaker 2: you don't really like move your body. And I'm not
Speaker 2: from that school.
Speaker 1: When you say you don't have to move your body,
Speaker 1: it looks like you have to move your body. My
Speaker 1: daughter tries to teach me totok, I can't move my body.
Speaker 2: This is how I see it, and like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be honest. It's like because I'm from
Speaker 2: more old school dancing, like I started like jazz dancing
Speaker 2: or like doing tap or like ballet or something. And
Speaker 2: when I did even like street dance and hip hop,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the era of I'm trying to think
Speaker 2: when it was like when I was a teenager and
Speaker 2: I was learning hip hop dancing. We're talking about like
Speaker 2: early Chris Brown or something like that. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like in the wake of of kind of like Michael
Speaker 2: Jackson like that kind of way. Yeah, it's like the
Speaker 2: post Michael like R and B wave of dancing, which
Speaker 2: is even I mean in the most pop sense I'm
Speaker 2: thinking of. You could even imagine like Aliyah or like
Speaker 2: Destiny's Child or that kind of way of dancing. That's
Speaker 2: when I was coming up learning commercial dancing, which is
Speaker 2: one thing. But okay, so like this is the way
Speaker 2: I describe im probably gonna sound so crazy, but like
Speaker 2: to dance a TikTok dance, it's it's like making your
Speaker 2: head like the center of the screen. So it's like
Speaker 2: this way of dancing where like you don't like.
Speaker 1: The movement is limited limits, which is exactly.
Speaker 2: So it's like really interesting for me because I just
Speaker 2: don't move in that way because like I'm just from
Speaker 2: a different time, So ay time when you won't.
Speaker 1: Worried about being in the fucking frame.
Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about the frame. We didn't
Speaker 2: film ourselves doing it, you know. I'm from like an
Speaker 2: era of when I was training to be a dancer.
Speaker 2: I would go to class the way that you see
Speaker 2: kids going to class now, but you wouldn't film the
Speaker 2: end of class, whereas now it's completely normal. They have
Speaker 2: these like amazing like sticks sticks, and it's like it
Speaker 2: looks so good, little X yeah, and you do like
Speaker 2: a move and the camera shakes and stuff Like I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's bad. I think it's good. If anything
Speaker 2: like I genuinely do think is good. It's just like
Speaker 2: I'm so like in my era of being like a mover,
Speaker 2: I'm so past thinking about that. Like I'm literally at
Speaker 2: a point in my movement development where I'm like body
Speaker 2: mobility and safety when movement is very important to me.
Speaker 2: So I'm very much kind of like how do I
Speaker 2: keep spine mobility into my forties And how do I
Speaker 2: do like hip opening exercises and how do I safely
Speaker 2: go on to the floor and how do I keep
Speaker 2: my flexibility and the movements that I'm doing, Like even
Speaker 2: on the pole, I'm really thinking about like, oh, when
Speaker 2: I did that back movement, I feel like I'm moving
Speaker 2: too much in my lumber spine, Like how do I
Speaker 2: find extra movement in my upper upper shoulders to support
Speaker 2: the flexibility that I have in my middle back which
Speaker 2: I don't want to rely on so that I can
Speaker 2: keep on doing this for ten years, and like, I'm
Speaker 2: so in another part of my journey as a mover
Speaker 2: to donate my time to doing TikTok dances, which is
Speaker 2: fine that it's fucking so cool, actually, but I just
Speaker 2: like I can't do it, and I can't do that
Speaker 2: and do that. I have to do my hip opening
Speaker 2: exercises more than I have.
Speaker 1: To be great TikTok pages, probably because I look, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing. I'm like, I'm just
Speaker 1: telling my guy been here. I'm like, I haven't run
Speaker 1: in fourteen months, not because I don't love to run,
Speaker 1: but because I keep sucking my my hip up or
Speaker 1: my ankle.
Speaker 2: Like that's something for another period of life, like not running.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I have no other way to get like
Speaker 1: my fucking.
Speaker 2: Walking uphill on a treadmill. Yes, it's quite meditative. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's good. Like if you've got like knee hip issues,
Speaker 2: it's like walking uphill on a treadmill forty minutes. Put
Speaker 2: on a podcast, put on this fire game. Yeah, on
Speaker 2: this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're talking about.
Speaker 2: It's not all It's like fucking amazing. I feel so young.
Speaker 2: I'm getting younger in many ways.
Speaker 1: I feel younger than for younger.
Speaker 2: But that's what.
Speaker 1: I don't say that. Don't say that that is true.
Speaker 1: I thought I was, you know, because when I was young,
Speaker 1: I used to think I was old, Like I really
Speaker 1: thought it would. I have a friend I tell her
Speaker 1: all the time like she's like now like doing really
Speaker 1: great music. But I remember in college, like we're graduating
Speaker 1: college and she bought a fucking keyboard. I remember looking
Speaker 1: at her being like the fuck are you doing? Like
Speaker 1: we're we gotta go figure life out and now and
Speaker 1: then like now she's killing it, and I'm like, how
Speaker 1: dumb was I? Like I felt like we were. I
Speaker 1: thought we were like middle aged at that point, you know.
Speaker 1: But you know, did you you have that same Yeah?
Speaker 2: I had that same thing too.
Speaker 1: Yeah how did you get past that to actually then
Speaker 1: applying yourself to create and make things and and have
Speaker 1: a go at a career.
Speaker 2: And like I mean I speak about it, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to meet this cross section where I look young, feel young,
Speaker 2: like I'm within youth culture, which which I still am,
Speaker 2: and like I'm becoming more wise and I'm learning my
Speaker 2: lessons and I'm like not a fucking idiot anymore. And
Speaker 2: if I can like hit that cross section where I'm
Speaker 2: like sexy and fresh and I'm not an idiot, you know,
Speaker 2: and I can feel it coming haven't really like I'm
Speaker 2: like and then when I hit that cross section, you know,
Speaker 2: like I'm it's like, it's not that I feel old
Speaker 2: or young. For me, it's about like learning my lessons
Speaker 2: in life, not repeating patterns, developing as a friend, an artist,
Speaker 2: a daughter, or a girlfriend, whatever it is I need
Speaker 2: to do in my personal life and my mind, and
Speaker 2: keeping my relationship with myself healthy, which is obviously in
Speaker 2: this industry very hard to do. If I can do
Speaker 2: that and still be having new ideas as an artist,
Speaker 2: still be affecting culture, still be you know, I like
Speaker 2: leading ideas, ways of making music, ways of moving Like
Speaker 2: I don't mind being like the first of things and
Speaker 2: people not quite understanding it straight away. Like I'm really
Speaker 2: okay with that. That makes me very excited to kind
Speaker 2: of be a part of like even sometimes just a
Speaker 2: droplet of inventing a new sound or a new moment
Speaker 2: in an era or a decade. I feel so lucky,
Speaker 2: I mean with you sexually, I feel so lucky because
Speaker 2: I feel that it's like made its mark in this
Speaker 2: era of time, and so to be able to have
Speaker 2: done that in like twenty twelve, and then to be
Speaker 2: able to be a part of the conversation again yeah
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six is like incredible, you know. So,
Speaker 2: and then it's not about age. Then it's about development
Speaker 2: as a person and as an artist, and it's about growth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, We'll be back with more from FK
Speaker 1: Twigs after the break. You know, listening to your discography
Speaker 1: makes me think of certain people. I didn't really connect
Speaker 1: the dots, but those people probably are people who perhaps
Speaker 1: had similar approaches, you know, like like Prince you know,
Speaker 1: when you think about how he was, he was never
Speaker 1: quite chasing. He's never chasing youth culture, chasing being cool.
Speaker 1: He was just after doing his fucking thing and you
Speaker 1: caught up or you didn't, or you moved along. And Madonna,
Speaker 1: same thing. Like I don't think, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to speak for these people or speak for you,
Speaker 1: but it seems like they had similar modes of creating
Speaker 1: and relating to themselves as people and creative people. Creative
Speaker 1: probably Pad yeah, the same. You know. I know you
Speaker 1: have his daughter on your sexual which is super cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the best. I think that the differences is
Speaker 2: back in the day, artists had a lot of time
Speaker 2: to develop. Like even when you look at Prince like
Speaker 2: he had a few records that he released or Bowie,
Speaker 2: there were records that were released that only became popular
Speaker 2: after they blew up. Yeah, you know, and I think
Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna get this so wrong, but I think
Speaker 2: like Bawi did Let's Dance, and I think he was
Speaker 2: like maybe forty or like I think he was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think he was like in his forties and he
Speaker 2: just lets dance and that was like a huge hit
Speaker 2: for him. And I think that was such like a
Speaker 2: breakthrough moment for him as an artist to like enter
Speaker 2: into like the living rooms of like many nations and
Speaker 2: and that was completely normal then. I think even like
Speaker 2: Elton John had released like a few records that you know,
Speaker 2: his fans like, but then he later on like he
Speaker 2: then started having like the big hits and there's just
Speaker 2: just this time the artists back in the day.
Speaker 1: But it's crazy too because I mean, like there was
Speaker 1: like a bunch of records too that we love now
Speaker 1: that I mean like Diamond Dogs. Yeah, not commercially and
Speaker 1: critically but you find that Americans no one gave a fuck,
Speaker 1: you know, critically exactly, you know.
Speaker 2: Like exactly. But then you discover them after they have
Speaker 2: like their big hit or whatever, and you can go
Speaker 2: back and you can see this like breadth of work,
Speaker 2: and that's the artists back in the day had that
Speaker 2: time to develop. So for me, I still feel like
Speaker 2: a new artist because I've still not had my Let's
Speaker 2: dance yet. I've still not had that moment yet.
Speaker 1: This feels pretty This feels like a let's dance in
Speaker 1: a way like me, no, no, no, okay, what would
Speaker 1: make what would make it feel like? That's what your moment?
Speaker 1: Like that moment is.
Speaker 2: For artists like myself that tend to either be like
Speaker 2: very like off center of the curve or like sometimes
Speaker 2: like to ahead of the curve. It's a kind of
Speaker 2: magical universal gift that's slightly out of your hands. The
Speaker 2: culture and what you're doing hit at the same time,
Speaker 2: and you can't really control it, you know, you can't
Speaker 2: actually like quite control that, like the cultural consciousness and
Speaker 2: narrative needs exactly what you're doing at that time. And
Speaker 2: then that's the moment, right, like I've actually not had
Speaker 2: that moment, I'm either like way off to the left
Speaker 2: or or like I'm almost a bit too ahead of
Speaker 2: it sometimes with sounds or with ideas. And that's so fine,
Speaker 2: Like honestly, I love my careers so much, Like if
Speaker 2: this is what it is for me, Like I'm so blessed,
Speaker 2: I'm so happy. But Bowie or Bowie? What do you say?
Speaker 1: Bowie Bowie? But just but I think in the UK, Bowie,
Speaker 1: which is it?
Speaker 2: I'm not going to Okay, Tomato, Okay, so Bowie, like
Speaker 2: you know he had that moment with Less Dance or
Speaker 2: Byork had like it's also quiet? Yeah, And it's not
Speaker 2: that what is that? Is it also quiet? The Bork song?
Speaker 2: Is that what it's actually called her?
Speaker 1: Is it? I'm really bad with it?
Speaker 2: But it's okay shush the title, Yeah, okay, so shush,
Speaker 2: so quiet for Byork. It's not that that song is
Speaker 2: like better or worse than any of the rest of
Speaker 2: her songs before that. It's that at that point with
Speaker 2: that video that I think Spike Jones directed, that is
Speaker 2: what culture needed to put her on the world stage.
Speaker 2: And when I was a kid, that was actually the
Speaker 2: first time I'd heard of Byork, you know, because I
Speaker 2: was I think I was. I was a kid, and
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I think I was in my early
Speaker 2: teens maybe when that came out or when I became
Speaker 2: aware of it, but then that was the entry point
Speaker 2: to something way way, way, way way deeper. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: she just had that more like global moment because that's
Speaker 2: just what culture needed and that's what it latched onto.
Speaker 1: But no, it's amazing though, too, like that because there
Speaker 1: are some artists who have that moment that you're talking
Speaker 1: about and then and then chase it or that's what
Speaker 1: now they think they need to do. And then there
Speaker 1: are people like York like Bowie who have it and
Speaker 1: it's great and to keep on their pay Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: stay weird. Yeah yeah. Maybe Neil Young's the same, right,
Speaker 1: like had a lot ton of misses and then early
Speaker 1: nineties has Harvest Moon or whatever, you know, and that's like,
Speaker 1: you know what he's now he's used again in his
Speaker 1: forties or fifties, even like that's probably the song is
Speaker 1: most known for at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Jones has Dad Thriller in his fifty you know what I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying exactly, But it takes that long, like it's just
Speaker 2: about learning your craft. And I've learned so much, and
Speaker 2: I've had to have weird moments in my musical journey
Speaker 2: that I feel kind of like were like off kilter
Speaker 2: for me. But those weird moments have made the moments
Speaker 2: that have worked possible because I've learned how to structure
Speaker 2: a song, or I've learned how to eke you a drum,
Speaker 2: or I've learned about a rhythm that I hadn't done before.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's just about a few tries, you know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you try a song and you think it doesn't
Speaker 2: quite work, but you release it because you know release it,
Speaker 2: you think okay, and then you actually like almost do
Speaker 2: that song again, but better, like two or three years later.
Speaker 2: It's like the same song, it's the same DNA of
Speaker 2: the song, and you do it later and then that's
Speaker 2: the one that works. It's so strange how that works.
Speaker 2: But you had to have the kind of not so
Speaker 2: good version before for the next one to kind of hit.
Speaker 1: There's an example of that that stands out to you.
Speaker 2: I think like as a project catpre songs, I mean,
Speaker 2: it was never like album, It's like a mixtape.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was a mixtape until it's a
Speaker 1: mixtape till this week. I didn't I thought that was
Speaker 1: an album.
Speaker 2: No, no, it's a mixtape. I mean I made it quick.
Speaker 2: It's like with after Glow for me as well, Like
Speaker 2: these are projects that I make quite quickly and in
Speaker 2: a different way to how I make like my record records.
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of like experimentation. But Caprio songs
Speaker 2: kind of like taught me how to write better songs,
Speaker 2: even though there's not necessarily like even well written songs,
Speaker 2: particularly on Caprio song. It's just but it's just like
Speaker 2: a bit hookier, Like it's just it's just like there's
Speaker 2: Caprio songs. It's like there's more hooks on it. They
Speaker 2: might not be in the right order, like the hooks
Speaker 2: probably aren't in the right order for like an amazing
Speaker 2: pop song. But I just learned, like, oh, I found
Speaker 2: my way to repeat a melody and do it in
Speaker 2: my way because in my usual songwriting, I don't give
Speaker 2: a fuck, I'll do a different melody for the verse,
Speaker 2: the pre and the chorus won't a'll only happen once
Speaker 2: because why not?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: But do you know what I mean? Like sometimes I'm
Speaker 2: like whatever it doesn't matter. But but with Caprew songs,
Speaker 2: I learn about structure. I learn about like minimalism within
Speaker 2: sounds that maybe are like more palatable to audiences. And
Speaker 2: for me, it's like testing what I'm okay with because
Speaker 2: sometimes when something is too like palatable or normal, I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: not for me, like I've lost my place in this now,
Speaker 2: this is for someone else to do very well, like
Speaker 2: I don't need to do that. But Capri Songs at
Speaker 2: the time was about me because I've just come off Magdalen,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of psychedelic. But but then Caprio songs,
Speaker 2: I'm like testing, Like, am I comfortable with a drum
Speaker 2: that doesn't change throughout a whole song? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've not done that before. My drums change all the time.
Speaker 2: So am I comfortable with a rhythm this stays the same?
Speaker 2: Am I comfortable with a repeating bassline? And I have
Speaker 2: to like test it and I think, yeah, I can
Speaker 2: do I can do that, Yeah I can do I
Speaker 2: can do that rhythm, I can I can do a
Speaker 2: structure that is like verse pre chorus, verse pre chorus,
Speaker 2: Like I'm okay with that, But it's not. It's it's
Speaker 2: like an It's like an experiment, and Capri songs was
Speaker 2: all also an ode to uh my culture and the
Speaker 2: music I was brought up on, like like not at
Speaker 2: home so much, but with my friends, like a bit
Speaker 2: of R and B Bashman dance or like more like
Speaker 2: I guess like black rhythms, you know, because I'm biracial.
Speaker 2: So I'm just looking at a constant like fucking crisis,
Speaker 2: you know. Do you know what I mean about?
Speaker 1: Like is your mom white or your dad?
Speaker 2: My mom is Spanish and white and my dad is Jamaican,
Speaker 2: but I was raised by a Beijing man, so I'm
Speaker 2: even more confused because I have like different sides of
Speaker 2: like the Caribbean coming at me that are very like opposing,
Speaker 2: very competing. Yeah yeah, yeah, It's like I'm Jamaican in
Speaker 2: my DNA, but I'm did.
Speaker 1: You make it? I mean, come on culture obviously across
Speaker 1: all cultures, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Like yeah, you know, it's great. I feel it
Speaker 2: in my blood. It's great.
Speaker 1: No respect to your stepdad or anything. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: But like yeah, it's great. Like I feel my like
Speaker 2: black blood in me. I feel it tangibly like inside me,
Speaker 2: and it's.
Speaker 1: Like it's Spanish but that's kind of deep too, though.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you think about the Moorish influence
Speaker 1: and all that, you know running through that music, and
Speaker 1: that's like it's not something I haven't dolved into as
Speaker 1: much as I you know, want to in the future.
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. When I listened to
Speaker 1: that stuff, it's like incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is, it is. There's lots of stuff going
Speaker 2: on in there, and yeah, Cabriot Songs was like more
Speaker 2: of an ode to the rhythms that I think like
Speaker 2: that I first latched onto maybe as a teenager going out.
Speaker 2: I went to a lot of like bashman and dance
Speaker 2: hall clubs and stuff. That was like my first experience
Speaker 2: of like going to like illegal like nightclubs and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. Was like dance hall clubs.
Speaker 1: Were those like cool places to get that time or
Speaker 1: just a place to be. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: the layout of London's sort of nightlife is.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm from the country, so I'm like a country girl.
Speaker 2: And where I grew up I was in place called
Speaker 2: Gloucestershire and there's lots of different pockets. It's a really
Speaker 2: interesting place because I was born in a place called Cheltenham,
Speaker 2: which is very white, very very very white, and it's
Speaker 2: very interesting because it's like in some ways when I
Speaker 2: was growing up there, it is very affluent and it's
Speaker 2: known as a commuters town, so it's where like a
Speaker 2: lot of middle class people live that commute into London,
Speaker 2: and it's very beautiful, Like there's a beautiful area called
Speaker 2: Montpellier which is like just beautiful buildings and everything is
Speaker 2: just so. And on the other side of it, there's
Speaker 2: a very big, like lower working class and working class
Speaker 2: community and there's a lot of like travelers and it's
Speaker 2: very a lot of farmers there, and on the other
Speaker 2: side of it, you know, like it it's very raw
Speaker 2: and it's very working class. And my upbringing was kind
Speaker 2: of confusing because like my family's very working class and
Speaker 2: they're from Birmingham, like working class Birmingham, which anyone that's
Speaker 2: like from Birmingham or from England like knows exactly what
Speaker 2: that means. But I think Birmingham's an amazing place. Is
Speaker 2: often left out of the conversation a bit of the UK,
Speaker 2: but I think it's a place that's very rich in culture,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a place that's like there's like
Speaker 2: a really big Aid, Indian and Asian community there, and
Speaker 2: a really big black community there. Cheltenham is this one place,
Speaker 2: but then Gloucester which is very close, it's just like
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes away, and then Bristol, which is very close,
Speaker 2: it's maybe like half an hour forty five minutes away,
Speaker 2: is very rich in black culture and specifically Caribbean culture,
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of people that have come straight
Speaker 2: from the Caribbean, like have been there. And then this
Speaker 2: is basically where like trip hop like laid its roots.
Speaker 2: So this is like where Tricky's from Porter's Head, this
Speaker 2: type of like music and music that its like trip hop,
Speaker 2: but then also kind of a lot of dub as
Speaker 2: well and jungle really like laid its roots in these areas.
Speaker 2: There was this bus that went from Cheltenham to Gloston.
Speaker 2: For me at fourteen, this bus was like a fucking
Speaker 2: godsend because I went from this area where I was
Speaker 2: the only black person in my area other than like
Speaker 2: my stepdad. Yeah, I could get this bus after school
Speaker 2: like twenty minutes and I was around then something completely different.
Speaker 2: People that were from like the island I'm from, you know,
Speaker 2: or half of me is from. And so when I
Speaker 2: first started going out, Like there was this club called
Speaker 2: the Jamaican Club that was like an illegal kind of
Speaker 2: like I guess, I don't know a lot of like
Speaker 2: rasters would go there and play dancehall, batsman reggae and
Speaker 2: just like sit and hang and there would be food
Speaker 2: and you would just go and like smoke until and dance.
Speaker 2: And these are the nightclubs that I first started like
Speaker 2: frequenting as a teenager. Anyways, So when I make Capbrey Songs,
Speaker 2: it was kind of like an ode to that side
Speaker 2: of me.
Speaker 1: In the idea of it come out more as a
Speaker 1: mixtape than an album. Was that always the intention it
Speaker 1: was was to experiment and then release something that didn't
Speaker 1: feel as definitive as an album.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like not really finished gapfree song. It's
Speaker 2: not like exactly finished. I would say, it's like something
Speaker 2: that was made. But it's same with after Glow, you know,
Speaker 2: like after Glow is like not exactly finished.
Speaker 1: I'm shocked at you. So you said, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if we were recording then, but you said you
Speaker 1: made that very quickly.
Speaker 2: I made in twelve weeks.
Speaker 1: Twelve weeks pretty much like one.
Speaker 2: Or two songs I thought.
Speaker 1: I just for some reason, it sounds it really does
Speaker 1: sound like of a piece with To me, it sounds
Speaker 1: like related enough that I thought maybe they were created
Speaker 1: at the same time. You know.
Speaker 2: No, I made after Glow because I wanted to like
Speaker 2: have a strike so I could get off one of
Speaker 2: my record labels. And I didn't want to be like
Speaker 2: totally because like I really like respected that label, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be like totally disrespectful and give
Speaker 2: them trash, because I know some artists do that they
Speaker 2: just think or whatever, there's another frank, Yeah, do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I didn't want to do that
Speaker 2: because I respect them and we've had a really good
Speaker 2: journey together. But I have this one song that for me,
Speaker 2: it's like one of the most beautiful songs that I've written,
Speaker 2: and I want it to come out this year and
Speaker 2: I need to I needed to own the masters to
Speaker 2: that song. Wow, and in like my record label, because
Speaker 2: I was on two record labels. So on the one
Speaker 2: that I'm still on now, I get my master's back,
Speaker 2: which is Atlantic. Yeah, so on that like in a timeframe,
Speaker 2: the idem is acceptable. I get those masters back and
Speaker 2: this one song on the record, it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: for me, it's it's like a cellophane. It's not in sound,
Speaker 2: but in how important it is to me and how
Speaker 2: important the lyrics are to me. You know, because when
Speaker 2: you're an artist and you don't own your masters, it's
Speaker 2: like painting and giving away paintings and you never get
Speaker 2: them back. But when you own your masters, then even
Speaker 2: if they live in a different gallery for a minute,
Speaker 2: you get to you say, yeah, sure you can put
Speaker 2: my work in your gallery for like ten years. That's fine, right,
Speaker 2: But then in ten years I get to take that
Speaker 2: work and I get to hang it back in my
Speaker 2: living room and it can just be in my little
Speaker 2: living room in Hackney, and I just get to hang
Speaker 2: it on the wall and I get to say, like,
Speaker 2: that's my work, you know, And that's that for me,
Speaker 2: is like very important psychologically.
Speaker 1: And obviously, I mean that's not on many people's radar
Speaker 1: when you're starting out, like that's.
Speaker 2: Not even not masters were No one even told me
Speaker 2: what masters will copyright. I was like, I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: what's incredible.
Speaker 1: You're getting on back. Then you're in a situation where
Speaker 1: you're able to get to a point.
Speaker 2: Where, yeah, my new music now I get them back.
Speaker 2: But I think that's the thing, you know, going back
Speaker 2: to when I started making music. It's not anything bad
Speaker 2: about my old label. It's just that deals looked different then, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I signed a deal that had like many records
Speaker 2: in it, and so now like it's more normal that
Speaker 2: artists like keep their masters or maybe even have like
Speaker 2: shorter record deals, which means that you can make choices
Speaker 2: that you do a record and you decide if you
Speaker 2: want to stay together or you decide if it's time
Speaker 2: to move on and stuff like that. But it's really,
Speaker 2: you know, I want to I'm always very careful. I
Speaker 2: want to be like very respectful to the relationship I
Speaker 2: had with Beggars and Young because genuinely, like I had
Speaker 2: a fab time.
Speaker 1: It's a great lay one.
Speaker 2: It's a great way for arts exactly, but it's just
Speaker 2: at certain point, like I grew to a point where,
Speaker 2: you know, if I write a song like Cellophane, or
Speaker 2: if I write certain music that has changed my life
Speaker 2: that's had like a visceral effect on my chemistry as
Speaker 2: an artist, and then I write that thing and it's
Speaker 2: sitting in front of me, and then I have to
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, a certain point after over
Speaker 2: a decade of making music, like it's it's stunting, It's
Speaker 2: people don't really think about the psychological effect of contracts
Speaker 2: on artists.
Speaker 1: What is what's the new song called Bluebird? Bluebird? And
Speaker 1: do you know as you're writing it that it's that important?
Speaker 1: Is there feeling to you or is it only after
Speaker 1: the fact and after you're a kistos?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And it might not mean anything to anyone else,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like to me sometimes I write
Speaker 2: things and it's like so about my life.
Speaker 1: So you knew where that was coming from as it
Speaker 1: was coming out. Yeah, And do you all do you
Speaker 1: always know where things are coming from?
Speaker 2: No? Like, sometimes I think I have moments of being
Speaker 2: like a really like special precious artist where I've done
Speaker 2: something and I feel like I'm so grateful that I
Speaker 2: was able to be a conduit for that moment and
Speaker 2: I feel really like, wow, I'm so grateful to be
Speaker 2: alive in this body and like have just made that
Speaker 2: almost makes me emotional. And then sometimes I'm like having
Speaker 2: fun or sometimes it's just like yep, you know, like
Speaker 2: just a little like flirtation and it's like not that deep,
Speaker 2: you know, but I need both because that's my personality.
Speaker 1: I feel like that personality comes through and a lot
Speaker 1: of your music, like when you're making pre songs you
Speaker 1: were trying to just make see if you could just
Speaker 1: stick with like you know, like a drum loop, that
Speaker 1: was like that's it. Like your songs expand and contract
Speaker 1: and move and like all like they're just malleable and
Speaker 1: these really cool ways that not a lot of people
Speaker 1: make songs like that anymore. Not a lot of people
Speaker 1: make records that way. They're like that feel that adventurous
Speaker 1: from like we're within one song, you've gone on a
Speaker 1: complete journey. And then when you think about some of
Speaker 1: the lyrics of these songs too, is that you can
Speaker 1: tell there's like there's a seriousness sometimes and then there's
Speaker 1: a play like all those I feel like that does
Speaker 1: come through.
Speaker 2: I think in your music, Thank you, that's my personality.
Speaker 2: I'm like either very serious and very like intense or
Speaker 2: I'm just like a kid. Yeah, I'm just so playful
Speaker 2: and it's like silly.
Speaker 1: One last break and we'll be back with FKA Twigs.
Speaker 1: My favorite print song is one of I don't know
Speaker 1: what my favorite is, but one of my Favorites is
Speaker 1: ballad of Dorothy Parker and there's a line where he
Speaker 1: says or he's like, he's he's he's met this woman.
Speaker 1: She's like, do you want to like take a bubble bath?
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, but I'm gonna leave my pants on.
Speaker 1: I always think about that with friends. I'm like, it's
Speaker 1: like it's bold, but it's coy, and it's like it's
Speaker 1: and it's like who does that? There's so many layers
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's so fun. It's so fun making fun
Speaker 2: of yourself on songs.
Speaker 1: Why why is that? Like what makes that.
Speaker 2: So it feels like an in joke with yourself? Like
Speaker 2: I don't know that I'm even just thinking of like
Speaker 2: on sushi because I'm like, like I can't drive yet.
Speaker 2: I still can't drive, So I'm like on this song
Speaker 2: like being like a boss thing, like I'm gonna take
Speaker 2: it out to all these different places, but like I
Speaker 2: can't drive yet, so I'm gonna have to get my
Speaker 2: friend to come and pick you up so we can
Speaker 2: go out. Like I didn't know if it's like it's
Speaker 2: only funny to me, but it's just funny sometimes to
Speaker 2: just like make fun of yourself for sometimes a really
Speaker 2: intimate secret that people might not pick up on.
Speaker 1: It's funny brought Sushi was a song that made me
Speaker 1: think about a Dorothy Parker because there are those moments
Speaker 1: of like it's like it's it's it's bold, but it's
Speaker 1: also a little like I said that and I'm going
Speaker 1: to pull it back even you're like, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: we could have I'm gonna yeah, I don't remember the
Speaker 1: line we're going to have sex. We could have sex,
Speaker 1: but we don't have to. I like that. It's just
Speaker 1: like what are we doing.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's like what adults. We can do what
Speaker 2: we like, we can do what we want to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a really funny framing for that, and
Speaker 1: it's a it's just a framing you don't hear a
Speaker 1: lot in the contours of pop music.
Speaker 2: You know, Yes, to be honest, it's funny that you
Speaker 2: bring up Prince because when I was writing that first
Speaker 2: part of Sushi, I actually thought about him when I
Speaker 2: was writing it. It's just about like that that playfulness
Speaker 2: and acknowledging, like the power play of like being a star,
Speaker 2: whilst also leaning into so like that you can still
Speaker 2: be so shy and vulnerable. It's like this double thing
Speaker 2: of like I'm going to fucking fly you to Paris
Speaker 2: slash like I can't drive, so my friend's going to
Speaker 2: get you actually from the airport.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like this this powerplay of of like
Speaker 2: knowing as a star you can do what you like,
Speaker 2: but also you're still like so prohibited and essentially like
Speaker 2: a kid. Moonlighting is an adult still but in like
Speaker 2: a fab outfit. You've had like full glam, but you
Speaker 2: still have no idea what you're doing. You know.
Speaker 1: It sounds like that's like that's a great life, that's it.
Speaker 2: It's weird.
Speaker 1: I read that raves were really important to this album. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I imagine raves in Europe. It's particularly it was
Speaker 1: it was specifically it was Prague. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: even have gone a rave here, to be honest, I
Speaker 1: have no conception of what rave culture is like. But
Speaker 1: what is it like? What is it? What's a learn
Speaker 1: about it to you? And how did that work its
Speaker 1: way into this album or these couple of projects.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've always been very scared of like
Speaker 2: a four to four beat, you know, even I think
Speaker 2: in the past like mocked it. I mean I used
Speaker 2: to mark like trap pads, you know. I used to
Speaker 2: be like like I'd be like, no, I'm not doing that,
Speaker 2: like you know, especially like LP one era, like the
Speaker 2: hat's always like changing, like even like BPM, and I'd
Speaker 2: always just be like I don't want like a straight
Speaker 2: like track, like I don't want something that's really really straight.
Speaker 2: And I used to say like that, you know, like
Speaker 2: I don't want like a four to the floor beat,
Speaker 2: like I want this kind of like abstract landscape. So
Speaker 2: the idea that I based a whole album off like techno,
Speaker 2: which is like that's the premise of techno, is like
Speaker 2: actually so humbling to me, and it just shows kind
Speaker 2: of how your taste can change. And yeah, I didn't
Speaker 2: ever really think that techno music was for me, and
Speaker 2: then I started to discover techno, first of all in Prague,
Speaker 2: and then second of all, like in like queer spaces
Speaker 2: that were more inviting for me, and I found my
Speaker 2: way in I don't know, and maybe it's like being black,
Speaker 2: like sometimes I felt like some music's aren't certain types
Speaker 2: of music aren't for me. I mean I literally did
Speaker 2: an interview earlier and I was speaking about this, and
Speaker 2: maybe sometimes I felt that like I couldn't like listen
Speaker 2: to that because it's like not not like I'm not
Speaker 2: allowed to or like there's not an infamy in the
Speaker 2: scene because like I can't my skinny jeans or something
Speaker 2: because my thighs are too big. I don't know, but like,
Speaker 2: do you know what I'm saying, Like it's just like
Speaker 2: that the preconceived notions of being like a teenager and thinking,
Speaker 2: like I think I have to have like straight hair
Speaker 2: pushed to the side to be when I'm from like
Speaker 2: MySpace era, I have to like be able to do
Speaker 2: that to like listen to like emo music.
Speaker 1: I had a metal band in the MySpace era, so
Speaker 1: I get you exactly.
Speaker 2: So I think, like naively, I thought that techno wasn't
Speaker 2: for me, and then I started to like do my
Speaker 2: research and obviously learn that, you know, dance music like
Speaker 2: has had so many incredible like Black Pioneers and the
Speaker 2: whole like Chicago scene. And I remember like when I
Speaker 2: went to Prague and I had this sort of spiritual
Speaker 2: awakening in this club and then I went back home
Speaker 2: and then I started to yeah research like house music
Speaker 2: and Chicago and all these incredible DJs, and I just
Speaker 2: was like, oh, do I not know about this? I
Speaker 2: just I was like I didn't know, you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't know. And and then I started to dive deeper
Speaker 2: and deeper. And I still even with dance music, like
Speaker 2: on New Sexual, I don't and even on After Girl,
Speaker 2: I feel like I've still not quite like invented this
Speaker 2: music or done this music that I feel in my head.
Speaker 2: So it's really fun to keep on like trying this just.
Speaker 1: Like an iteration.
Speaker 2: This is like the first yeah, yeah exactly. It's like
Speaker 2: it's like now I can keep on playing with dance music.
Speaker 2: And then recently I've been listening to a lot of
Speaker 2: acid house, which which is.
Speaker 1: Like how does that relate to, like, how's it different
Speaker 1: from the regular house.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not very good with like like
Speaker 2: the technicalities of like genres, but to me, like acid house,
Speaker 2: it feels more cunty. That's more of like a stank
Speaker 2: to it. It feels like like walking down a catwalk,
Speaker 2: or it feels like something that's like I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, we were last night I was like doing
Speaker 2: like a fitting for a red carpet, and then it
Speaker 2: was like acid house. But then it was like a
Speaker 2: mood glare like fashion show and seeing how like the
Speaker 2: models like walked to it and stuff, and I was
Speaker 2: like I understand that, like physically, I understand that language.
Speaker 2: And that was very inspiring. But anyway, yeah, back to Prague,
Speaker 2: like I just had this massive epiphany of togetherness on
Speaker 2: a dance floor in a different way. That was very
Speaker 2: singular because going to bashment clubs in the early noughties
Speaker 2: is about what was about like winding, It was about grinding.
Speaker 2: It was about like doing movements that were the same.
Speaker 2: There were like you know, like dance movements that you
Speaker 2: would do like together, and you would like learn the
Speaker 2: dance movements and then you would get together on the
Speaker 2: dance floor and communally do them, like the candy dance,
Speaker 2: but in a different genre. You would do this part
Speaker 2: of that dance to this music techno is different because
Speaker 2: you're b yourself and it's actually maybe like unorthodox to
Speaker 2: like try and invite people.
Speaker 1: You don't dance with other people, No, you.
Speaker 2: Do, but it's like a very it's psych surfing. There
Speaker 2: are rules in dance clubs like surfing said, Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: rules of waves in surfing, like you don't like the
Speaker 2: way that surfers navigate the waves is very respectful. You
Speaker 2: don't just go and like take that wave. I don't
Speaker 2: just go to a beach I've never been before, Like
Speaker 2: that's a big wave, I'm going to take it. It's
Speaker 2: like there's like an order of things. It's like that
Speaker 2: the more the better surfers might take that wave where
Speaker 2: you've had your turn, and then you give someone else
Speaker 2: a thing, and there's a respect to it. That is
Speaker 2: the way the best dance clubs work, where there's a
Speaker 2: respect to the way you would approach someone on the
Speaker 2: dance floor, or you wouldn't because you see that they're
Speaker 2: in their like flow state or they're like you know,
Speaker 2: like it's called like tunneling, Like you like tunnel to
Speaker 2: the music where you're just like in.
Speaker 1: Your like you just look tunnel that you look like.
Speaker 2: You're yeah, just like you know, because it's primal, you know,
Speaker 2: like to do the same movement over and over again.
Speaker 2: It's very primal, and so sometimes you just have to
Speaker 2: like respect that people are like working out their own
Speaker 2: fucking like thing. But it's also very together. But that's
Speaker 2: what Rumor Fools was about. Like this rumor falls. We
Speaker 2: make something together. It's like if you separate one of
Speaker 2: the dancers in the club, they look crazy because that's
Speaker 2: like moving and it's not about looking good. It's just
Speaker 2: about like moving and feeling something. And it's quite like
Speaker 2: sporadic and it's full of ecstasy and it's very like primal,
Speaker 2: and it's and it's like very practical. You don't wouldn't
Speaker 2: like wear heels to a rage, do you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? It's like you wouldn't wear something uncomfortable. It's
Speaker 2: about being comfortable. It's about like the utilitarian nature of
Speaker 2: what it is to move together, and that's priority. It's
Speaker 2: almost kind of like comfort within your body to the beat,
Speaker 2: whereas yeah, like you just wouldn't like eject someone's moment.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the whole crowd is moving
Speaker 2: together as one, so it's very beautiful. It's like you're
Speaker 2: like an ameba and you're all cells and together you're
Speaker 2: like a very important community. When I go like raving,
Speaker 2: I think like this right now is quite possibly the
Speaker 2: most important moment in culture. This rave right now, with
Speaker 2: the drop, the way that the fucking DJ just brought
Speaker 2: in those high hats and the way that the crowd
Speaker 2: responded is quite possibly the most important thing that has
Speaker 2: ever happened in history in this room right now. But
Speaker 2: it's just like completely contained. It's like completely contained that
Speaker 2: something will happen, and everyone's just like, that is exactly
Speaker 2: what I wanted to happen in the music. And you
Speaker 2: just see the relief, the physical relief that that fucking
Speaker 2: high hat came in. You're just like, thank god, I've
Speaker 2: been waiting for seven minutes. I've been like listening to
Speaker 2: that four four drum. I have my body, it's been
Speaker 2: a slave to that drum for seven minutes, and now
Speaker 2: a high hat has come in and this surely is heaven,
Speaker 2: Like this is surely the best thing that's ever happened
Speaker 2: in the whole world. But it's just like contained to
Speaker 2: this one room and no one knows about it. And
Speaker 2: the next morning you can't even really explain it. You
Speaker 2: know that I'm.
Speaker 1: Probably ready to go to Friday Night.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about Yeah, anyone else, no, Ben, Yeah, Nick knows,
Speaker 2: everyone knows. Yeah, But this is there are spaces for everybody,
Speaker 2: you know, there's spaces for everybody. And that's what I realized,
Speaker 2: that there's space is for.
Speaker 1: Me, it's fucking wild. But in Prague, of all places,
Speaker 1: this is where.
Speaker 2: Well not really, it's like East Block, I don't know,
Speaker 2: like there's this kind of a pioneer like actually it's
Speaker 2: actually like a very important to dance music and like
Speaker 2: you're its like an incredible dance scene.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to I'm ready to go rave.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's pretty good. It's very It makes you like
Speaker 2: not really care.
Speaker 1: Can you be sober? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, one hundred percent. I didn't think so,
Speaker 2: but then actually you can really Yeah, yeah you really can. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can totally go and be completely sober.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I got too many responsibility got there doing ecstasy?
Speaker 1: No no, no, you can push forty out there doing
Speaker 1: ecstasy at a rave. I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, you can totally go and be sober, like it's
Speaker 2: amazing sober.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna dip my toes in, my toes in. Well,
Speaker 1: it was great speaking with you. It was like an
Speaker 1: incredible conversation. I went many places. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: better for having had it. And I can't wait to
Speaker 1: hear what was the new song called I can't wait
Speaker 1: to hear Bluebird? Yeah, I can't wait to hear that.
Speaker 2: Thank you great to meet you nice great.
Speaker 1: In the episode description, you' find a link to a
Speaker 1: playlist featuring our favorite songs from FKA Twigs, including her
Speaker 1: latest album You Sexual Afterglow. Be sure to check out
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see all
Speaker 1: of our video interviews, and be sure to follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Broken Record pot. You can follow
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced
Speaker 1: and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric
Speaker 1: Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
Speaker 1: and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.
Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if
Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.