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Speaker 1: Pushkin. F Gay Twigs is spent over a decade redefining

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Speaker 1: the boundaries of pop music through her innovative blend of

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Speaker 1: electronic production, experimental R and B, and striking visual art.

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Speaker 1: Her album's LP One and Magdalen earned widespread critical acclaim

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Speaker 1: establishing her as one of the most forward thinking voices

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Speaker 1: in contemporary music. Last year, she put out two albums.

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Speaker 1: In November, she released Usexua Afterglow, a companion to her

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Speaker 1: Grammy winning rave inspired album Sexua that she'd released earlier

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Speaker 1: in the year. Both of twigs new albums address identity, bodily, autonomy,

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Speaker 1: and resistance. On today's episode, just hours before she walked

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Speaker 1: on stage to pick up her first Grammy, I talked

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Speaker 1: to F Gay Twigs about her experiences growing up mixed

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Speaker 1: race in rural England and how going to Jamaican clubs

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Speaker 1: as a teenager inspired her dance forward twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: mixtape capri So. She also explains why, despite being a

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Speaker 1: phenomenal dancer, she's not a fan of TikTok dances, and

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Speaker 1: breaks down the precise moment when all the forces align

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Speaker 1: at a rave that have brought her to the realization

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Speaker 1: that this is the most important moment in culture. This

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Speaker 1: is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my interview

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Speaker 1: with Fka Twiggs. Head over to YouTube dot com slash

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Speaker 1: Broken Record podcast to watch the interview.

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Speaker 2: My whole life is fucking moment. My whole life is

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Speaker 2: like back against the wool, Like that's when you're like

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Speaker 2: one way out, like to come out like kicking and punching.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: If you had to go back and think about it,

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Speaker 1: when was the first like fuck it moment? Like when

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Speaker 1: did that become a.

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Speaker 2: Staple the whole of my life? Like I've always had

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Speaker 2: the Yeah. My stepdad said to me the other day

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Speaker 2: that he's known me for the whole of my life.

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Speaker 2: He was like, he was like, you've spent your whole

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Speaker 2: life in final flight. Yeah, he was like, you've had

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Speaker 2: or you're just like ever since a kid, you've been

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Speaker 2: in like fileflight, Like I've just it's just been like

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like maybe a combination of like the

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Speaker 2: way my life has been the stress of being an artist,

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Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, but even going on stage is fight

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Speaker 2: or flight, you know, like it's kind of do you

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Speaker 2: freeze in front of an audience or do you come

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Speaker 2: out kicking and screaming. It's like everything like even going

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Speaker 2: on tour is file flight. Like even doing like a

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Speaker 2: massive project, do you have that moment like before a

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Speaker 2: big shoot or anything where you're just like, am I

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Speaker 2: going to be able to do this tomorrow?

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Speaker 1: And there's got to be with an album, there's got

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Speaker 1: to be at some point where you're like, Okay, I've

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Speaker 1: been tinkering or working for years, this has to work

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Speaker 1: at some point, like this has to be the.

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Speaker 2: Thing, right Like yeah, I mean I'm going through it now,

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Speaker 2: like I'm at that point when I was speaking to

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Speaker 2: a director last night and we were talking about the

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Speaker 2: moment when you're at that point in a project where

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Speaker 2: you've swum out so far that you can't see the

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Speaker 2: island behind you, but you can't see the island in

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Speaker 2: front of you. And I'm literally there right now, Like

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Speaker 2: with my next music projects, I'm that like I can't

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Speaker 2: see the island behind me and I can't see the

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Speaker 2: island in front of me, and I'm just like, do

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Speaker 2: you like bolt back and think like don't worry, do

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Safety?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Or do you like go forward and finish it.

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Speaker 1: Are you one of those people, Like I've heard people say,

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Speaker 1: you're performing live, you get butterflies, or you get extreme

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Speaker 1: anxiety or whatever the range of degrees of that is.

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Speaker 1: But there's some people who are addicted to that, almost

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Speaker 1: like adrenaline, as like an adrenaline junkie. Does it feel good?

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Speaker 1: Do you enjoy that feeling?

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Speaker 2: I change it around in my head. So sometimes when

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Speaker 2: I'm really nervous, you know you're doing a big show,

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Speaker 2: especially some of the festivals I did last year, like

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Speaker 2: I'm performing a front of eighty thousand people, and you

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Speaker 2: peek around the cut and you think, whose idea was this?

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Speaker 2: I always think that I'm just like, I'm sorry, who

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Speaker 2: so this is a good idea? And I'll get really nervous,

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Speaker 2: And then I always say to myself in my head,

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Speaker 2: and no, it's not that I'm nervous. I'm so excited

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Speaker 2: and I've like got these amazing dance moves, and I've

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Speaker 2: been practicing so much, and I'm so excited to show

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Speaker 2: everybody this thing that I've got. And then I try

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Speaker 2: and psychologically say like, I'm not nervous, I'm not scared.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to show what I've been practicing like that feeling.

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Speaker 2: You know when you're a kid and you have lunch

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Speaker 2: chopsticks on the piano and you're like, mom, Mom, what's

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Speaker 2: just you know, like that kind of feeling where or

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Speaker 2: you have a picture you've done at school and you

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Speaker 2: want to come home and you're like, look at this.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like that feeling. I try and make

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Speaker 2: myself think it's that, and it works. It does work.

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Speaker 1: That's a great trick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just excited to show people, like you just

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Speaker 2: can't you can't wait to get out there and show people.

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Speaker 1: And then by the time you're on stage, is it

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Speaker 1: are you super in your body, super conscious of everything

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Speaker 1: that's happening, or is it just does it just rush

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Speaker 1: by unconsciously?

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Speaker 2: I think for me, the first song is always a

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Speaker 2: bit jelly legs, Like sometimes I just feel a bit

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Speaker 2: like I'm not centered in the first number, like usually

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Speaker 2: with my shows, because I know, for me, the first

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Speaker 2: song is a bit tentative. I tend to start very

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Speaker 2: slow and then you sexually. I thought, I'm gonna try

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Speaker 2: something different, and I'm going to try with the start

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Speaker 2: with the biggest dance number. So I started with perfect

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Speaker 2: Stranger which is like the poppiest song and the biggest

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Speaker 2: dance number that required. I mean, it's not like a

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Speaker 2: super difficult dance routine, but it's like precise because you're

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Speaker 2: dancing with ten people doing everything the same, so it's

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Speaker 2: not really like a lot of room to like mess up.

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Speaker 2: And that was really interesting. I definitely learned a lot

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Speaker 2: making myself go to one hundred first, but now in

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Speaker 2: Body High, I'm not going to do that. Would no,

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Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna actually, do you know what, it is

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Speaker 2: still one hundred for me because Body High. In my

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Speaker 2: next tour, I'm gonna start like playing instruments, which is

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Speaker 2: something that I've never done on stage before, so I

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Speaker 2: guess there will be like a lot of nerves, but

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Speaker 2: I think I'm just forcing myself to like get over

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Speaker 2: a new thing.

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Speaker 1: Is that because you need to play instruments on this

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Speaker 1: one or or is it just you want to feel

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Speaker 1: like what would compel you to want to do that

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Speaker 1: at this point?

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Speaker 2: Because I play instruments in a non conventional sense in

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Speaker 2: the studio and it's how I produce like drum machines

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Speaker 2: and pads and analogue instruments and noises and like kind

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Speaker 2: of like push them together into some sort of resemblance

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Speaker 2: of something that sounds like a music or a beat.

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Speaker 2: But I've never done it before on stage, and i

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Speaker 2: think I'm reaching a point where I'm searching for autonomy

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Speaker 2: as well even as an artist, because I've never been

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Speaker 2: able to do this thing where it's like, if you

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Speaker 2: are like Twigs, will you come and perform at like

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Speaker 2: my wedding tomorrow? I would have to call a pianist

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Speaker 2: or call my band or say I need to check

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Speaker 2: who's free, you know, to help support me in that,

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Speaker 2: Whereas I have the skill set and the ability to

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Speaker 2: be able to do a set by myself, but it's

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Speaker 2: been fifteen years and I've never tested that. So on

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Speaker 2: body high, I just decided that I was going to

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Speaker 2: start testing that theory of playing instruments a way that

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Speaker 2: I do in the studio. But I've also got an

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Speaker 2: amazing MD. His name's Matt, who is helping me find

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Speaker 2: my way of doing that by triggering things and relating

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Speaker 2: my in studio process to something that is on stage

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Speaker 2: and makes sense, like beyond playing an acoustic guitar or

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Speaker 2: playing the piano, how most like traditional musicians would do.

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Speaker 1: That are so these going to be songs off of

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Speaker 1: Afterglow or.

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Speaker 2: It's the whole of my discography. Really, yeah, it's everything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've been doing this now for fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing because there's a song for every mood. And

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Speaker 2: I think I've realized how diverse my music is and

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Speaker 2: that's been really eye opening to me as well, to

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Speaker 2: realize how many different tempos and genres and you know,

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Speaker 2: I've really over the last fifteen years create created like

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Speaker 2: such a vast sonic palette, and I'm learning a lot

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Speaker 2: about myself. I feel like humbled by the amount of

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Speaker 2: music I've created in different ways. I didn't even realize

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Speaker 2: it until putting together Body High. Because Body High the tour,

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Speaker 2: there's lots of different size to me. I can like

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Speaker 2: dance and be a pop star in that sense and

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Speaker 2: do those big group numbers. Then there's also some really

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Speaker 2: experimental electronic music. They're completely like genre defying sounds and

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Speaker 2: it's industrial and it's moody. And then there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of like sensual music. And then there's music that is

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Speaker 2: inherent to who I am, like dance, wall, em bashment

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Speaker 2: and more rhythms that are associated with the music I

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Speaker 2: was brought up on in my own black culture, and like,

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Speaker 2: there is a full picture of who I am as

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Speaker 2: a person, which is so cool.

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Speaker 1: It's wild. I couldn't it kind of I went back

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Speaker 1: and listened to your whole discography to do I hadn't

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Speaker 1: done like I actually I had never done that just

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Speaker 1: when one sitting Wow, but you say fifteen years and

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Speaker 1: it did kind of shock me because and it's not

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Speaker 1: that it's it's also that there's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: eras of the music business since you've been around, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's been a lot of permutations of what

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Speaker 1: music is or how people receive it or listen to it,

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Speaker 1: or how it's distinct. You kind of first came out

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Speaker 1: sort of in a pre Spotify world, you know, and I.

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Speaker 2: Sort of it was it was right. I mean I

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Speaker 2: literally remember my manager at the time calling me and

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Speaker 2: being like, there's this thing it's like moving like music

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Speaker 2: streaming platforms, Like you don't have to go on it,

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Speaker 2: but like artists are going on it now if you

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Speaker 2: want to. And I was just kind of like, I mean, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: if you whatever, if you think so. I mean I

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Speaker 2: literally remember that conversation of just like it's something that

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Speaker 2: like I could potentially opt out of and it's not

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Speaker 2: that much of a big deal cut to you now,

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Speaker 2: that seems like a hilarious conversation to have, like opting

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Speaker 2: out of streaming because it's not that relevant, you know.

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Speaker 2: And I think I was probably quite late even to

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Speaker 2: going on it, really, I think so, like I just

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Speaker 2: don't remember it being a big part of like my

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Speaker 2: first record, And it was only really when I did

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Speaker 2: Magdalen that I kind of realized that I'd like not

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Speaker 2: been working.

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Speaker 1: It, like working the systems.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was like I have any monthly listeners

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Speaker 2: because I not been working it, whereas there's been other artists.

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Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna get this wrong. I'll probably be like

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Speaker 2: corrected whatever. But like I think Frank Ocean had done

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Speaker 2: some deal with with Apple or some streaming things easy.

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Speaker 1: He did a deal though, but I don't think it was.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know he'd done something with streaming or

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Speaker 2: like artists were at that time doing things with like

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Speaker 2: exclusively giving things.

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Speaker 1: Did something. He did something. His album was exclusively on

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Speaker 1: Apple I think for like a week or Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it was something like that, kind of.

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Speaker 2: Just working it like that like making everyone swarm to

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Speaker 2: this one place to like support that platform or I

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Speaker 2: can't remember. I just remember like artists were like doing

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Speaker 2: cool things and the platforms were kind of like paying

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Speaker 2: people to create, you know things. It's like in that

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Speaker 2: early time, it's like, you know, if you don't get

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Speaker 2: on TikTok or something in the beginning, then like it's

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Speaker 2: just really hard to like get on it afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Well you on TikTok at the beginning, because that I

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Speaker 1: was the other big you know, like no.

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Speaker 2: I was like, what is it? I still am terrible

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Speaker 2: at it?

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Speaker 1: Do you care about it?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I'm supposed to, Like I try.

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Speaker 2: It's I'm so bad at it, like I mean, the

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Speaker 2: truth is honestly, Like the truth is, I'm literally almost

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Speaker 2: forty and like I just like the.

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Speaker 1: Kick in.

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Speaker 2: I'm just like just like I mean, I do it

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Speaker 2: like it's fun. If I feel too, Like I don't

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Speaker 2: you like to dance your day?

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Speaker 1: You love? But I like to.

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Speaker 2: Dance and like I'm gonna train woosh you sword for

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Speaker 2: like I'm gonna like become a black belt at or

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna I like to dance like I'm gonna become

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Speaker 2: a pole dancer, and there's this trick where you like

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Speaker 2: hang off your ankle and like hold on to your

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Speaker 2: foot and fucking spin around.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm like, I don't even like to dance. I

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Speaker 2: like to just do very extreme things with my body

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Speaker 2: under my rules of things that I want to do

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Speaker 2: in terms of like TikTok dancing, Like it's a very

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Speaker 2: like it's a very like specific way of moving because

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Speaker 2: you don't really like move your body. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: from that school.

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Speaker 1: When you say you don't have to move your body,

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Speaker 1: it looks like you have to move your body. My

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Speaker 1: daughter tries to teach me totok, I can't move my body.

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Speaker 2: This is how I see it, and like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be honest. It's like because I'm from

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Speaker 2: more old school dancing, like I started like jazz dancing

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Speaker 2: or like doing tap or like ballet or something. And

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Speaker 2: when I did even like street dance and hip hop,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the era of I'm trying to think

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Speaker 2: when it was like when I was a teenager and

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Speaker 2: I was learning hip hop dancing. We're talking about like

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Speaker 2: early Chris Brown or something like that. It's kind of

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Speaker 2: like in the wake of of kind of like Michael

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Speaker 2: Jackson like that kind of way. Yeah, it's like the

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Speaker 2: post Michael like R and B wave of dancing, which

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Speaker 2: is even I mean in the most pop sense I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking of. You could even imagine like Aliyah or like

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Speaker 2: Destiny's Child or that kind of way of dancing. That's

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Speaker 2: when I was coming up learning commercial dancing, which is

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Speaker 2: one thing. But okay, so like this is the way

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Speaker 2: I describe im probably gonna sound so crazy, but like

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Speaker 2: to dance a TikTok dance, it's it's like making your

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Speaker 2: head like the center of the screen. So it's like

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Speaker 2: this way of dancing where like you don't like.

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Speaker 1: The movement is limited limits, which is exactly.

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Speaker 2: So it's like really interesting for me because I just

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Speaker 2: don't move in that way because like I'm just from

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Speaker 2: a different time, So ay time when you won't.

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Speaker 1: Worried about being in the fucking frame.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about the frame. We didn't

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Speaker 2: film ourselves doing it, you know. I'm from like an

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Speaker 2: era of when I was training to be a dancer.

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Speaker 2: I would go to class the way that you see

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Speaker 2: kids going to class now, but you wouldn't film the

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Speaker 2: end of class, whereas now it's completely normal. They have

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Speaker 2: these like amazing like sticks sticks, and it's like it

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Speaker 2: looks so good, little X yeah, and you do like

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Speaker 2: a move and the camera shakes and stuff Like I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying it's bad. I think it's good. If anything

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Speaker 2: like I genuinely do think is good. It's just like

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Speaker 2: I'm so like in my era of being like a mover,

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Speaker 2: I'm so past thinking about that. Like I'm literally at

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Speaker 2: a point in my movement development where I'm like body

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Speaker 2: mobility and safety when movement is very important to me.

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Speaker 2: So I'm very much kind of like how do I

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Speaker 2: keep spine mobility into my forties And how do I

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Speaker 2: do like hip opening exercises and how do I safely

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Speaker 2: go on to the floor and how do I keep

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Speaker 2: my flexibility and the movements that I'm doing, Like even

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Speaker 2: on the pole, I'm really thinking about like, oh, when

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Speaker 2: I did that back movement, I feel like I'm moving

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Speaker 2: too much in my lumber spine, Like how do I

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Speaker 2: find extra movement in my upper upper shoulders to support

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Speaker 2: the flexibility that I have in my middle back which

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Speaker 2: I don't want to rely on so that I can

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Speaker 2: keep on doing this for ten years, and like, I'm

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Speaker 2: so in another part of my journey as a mover

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Speaker 2: to donate my time to doing TikTok dances, which is

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Speaker 2: fine that it's fucking so cool, actually, but I just

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Speaker 2: like I can't do it, and I can't do that

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Speaker 2: and do that. I have to do my hip opening

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Speaker 2: exercises more than I have.

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Speaker 1: To be great TikTok pages, probably because I look, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing. I'm like, I'm just

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Speaker 1: telling my guy been here. I'm like, I haven't run

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Speaker 1: in fourteen months, not because I don't love to run,

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Speaker 1: but because I keep sucking my my hip up or

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Speaker 1: my ankle.

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Speaker 2: Like that's something for another period of life, like not running.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I have no other way to get like

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Speaker 1: my fucking.

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Speaker 2: Walking uphill on a treadmill. Yes, it's quite meditative. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's good. Like if you've got like knee hip issues,

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Speaker 2: it's like walking uphill on a treadmill forty minutes. Put

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Speaker 2: on a podcast, put on this fire game. Yeah, on

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Speaker 2: this podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: It's not all It's like fucking amazing. I feel so young.

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Speaker 2: I'm getting younger in many ways.

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Speaker 1: I feel younger than for younger.

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Speaker 2: But that's what.

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Speaker 1: I don't say that. Don't say that that is true.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was, you know, because when I was young,

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Speaker 1: I used to think I was old, Like I really

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Speaker 1: thought it would. I have a friend I tell her

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Speaker 1: all the time like she's like now like doing really

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Speaker 1: great music. But I remember in college, like we're graduating

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Speaker 1: college and she bought a fucking keyboard. I remember looking

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Speaker 1: at her being like the fuck are you doing? Like

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Speaker 1: we're we gotta go figure life out and now and

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Speaker 1: then like now she's killing it, and I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: dumb was I? Like I felt like we were. I

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Speaker 1: thought we were like middle aged at that point, you know.

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Speaker 1: But you know, did you you have that same Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I had that same thing too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah how did you get past that to actually then

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Speaker 1: applying yourself to create and make things and and have

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Speaker 1: a go at a career.

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Speaker 2: And like I mean I speak about it, I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to meet this cross section where I look young, feel young,

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Speaker 2: like I'm within youth culture, which which I still am,

353
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Speaker 2: and like I'm becoming more wise and I'm learning my

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Speaker 2: lessons and I'm like not a fucking idiot anymore. And

355
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Speaker 2: if I can like hit that cross section where I'm

356
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Speaker 2: like sexy and fresh and I'm not an idiot, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I can feel it coming haven't really like I'm

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Speaker 2: like and then when I hit that cross section, you know,

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Speaker 2: like I'm it's like, it's not that I feel old

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Speaker 2: or young. For me, it's about like learning my lessons

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Speaker 2: in life, not repeating patterns, developing as a friend, an artist,

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Speaker 2: a daughter, or a girlfriend, whatever it is I need

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Speaker 2: to do in my personal life and my mind, and

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Speaker 2: keeping my relationship with myself healthy, which is obviously in

365
00:17:40,396 --> 00:17:43,396
Speaker 2: this industry very hard to do. If I can do

366
00:17:43,516 --> 00:17:49,036
Speaker 2: that and still be having new ideas as an artist,

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Speaker 2: still be affecting culture, still be you know, I like

368
00:17:54,076 --> 00:18:01,196
Speaker 2: leading ideas, ways of making music, ways of moving Like

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00:18:01,396 --> 00:18:04,116
Speaker 2: I don't mind being like the first of things and

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00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:07,436
Speaker 2: people not quite understanding it straight away. Like I'm really

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00:18:07,756 --> 00:18:11,036
Speaker 2: okay with that. That makes me very excited to kind

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Speaker 2: of be a part of like even sometimes just a

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Speaker 2: droplet of inventing a new sound or a new moment

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Speaker 2: in an era or a decade. I feel so lucky,

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Speaker 2: I mean with you sexually, I feel so lucky because

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Speaker 2: I feel that it's like made its mark in this

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00:18:27,316 --> 00:18:29,316
Speaker 2: era of time, and so to be able to have

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Speaker 2: done that in like twenty twelve, and then to be

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Speaker 2: able to be a part of the conversation again yeah

380
00:18:35,516 --> 00:18:39,196
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six is like incredible, you know. So,

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00:18:39,236 --> 00:18:43,076
Speaker 2: and then it's not about age. Then it's about development

382
00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:46,276
Speaker 2: as a person and as an artist, and it's about growth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, We'll be back with more from FK

384
00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:58,996
Speaker 1: Twigs after the break. You know, listening to your discography

385
00:18:59,116 --> 00:19:01,556
Speaker 1: makes me think of certain people. I didn't really connect

386
00:19:01,556 --> 00:19:06,036
Speaker 1: the dots, but those people probably are people who perhaps

387
00:19:06,076 --> 00:19:08,756
Speaker 1: had similar approaches, you know, like like Prince you know,

388
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Speaker 1: when you think about how he was, he was never

389
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Speaker 1: quite chasing. He's never chasing youth culture, chasing being cool.

390
00:19:15,156 --> 00:19:17,556
Speaker 1: He was just after doing his fucking thing and you

391
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Speaker 1: caught up or you didn't, or you moved along. And Madonna,

392
00:19:21,276 --> 00:19:23,836
Speaker 1: same thing. Like I don't think, you know, I don't

393
00:19:23,836 --> 00:19:25,636
Speaker 1: want to speak for these people or speak for you,

394
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Speaker 1: but it seems like they had similar modes of creating

395
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Speaker 1: and relating to themselves as people and creative people. Creative

396
00:19:31,876 --> 00:19:35,996
Speaker 1: probably Pad yeah, the same. You know. I know you

397
00:19:36,036 --> 00:19:38,676
Speaker 1: have his daughter on your sexual which is super cool.

398
00:19:38,796 --> 00:19:42,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the best. I think that the differences is

399
00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:44,796
Speaker 2: back in the day, artists had a lot of time

400
00:19:44,836 --> 00:19:47,356
Speaker 2: to develop. Like even when you look at Prince like

401
00:19:47,396 --> 00:19:49,836
Speaker 2: he had a few records that he released or Bowie,

402
00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:53,956
Speaker 2: there were records that were released that only became popular

403
00:19:54,036 --> 00:19:57,236
Speaker 2: after they blew up. Yeah, you know, and I think

404
00:19:57,396 --> 00:19:59,356
Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna get this so wrong, but I think

405
00:19:59,836 --> 00:20:01,956
Speaker 2: like Bawi did Let's Dance, and I think he was

406
00:20:02,036 --> 00:20:06,596
Speaker 2: like maybe forty or like I think he was. Yeah,

407
00:20:06,636 --> 00:20:08,356
Speaker 2: I think he was like in his forties and he

408
00:20:08,436 --> 00:20:10,476
Speaker 2: just lets dance and that was like a huge hit

409
00:20:10,476 --> 00:20:11,916
Speaker 2: for him. And I think that was such like a

410
00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:14,436
Speaker 2: breakthrough moment for him as an artist to like enter

411
00:20:14,556 --> 00:20:18,396
Speaker 2: into like the living rooms of like many nations and

412
00:20:18,396 --> 00:20:21,996
Speaker 2: and that was completely normal then. I think even like

413
00:20:22,036 --> 00:20:25,236
Speaker 2: Elton John had released like a few records that you know,

414
00:20:25,316 --> 00:20:27,876
Speaker 2: his fans like, but then he later on like he

415
00:20:27,996 --> 00:20:30,876
Speaker 2: then started having like the big hits and there's just

416
00:20:30,876 --> 00:20:34,196
Speaker 2: just this time the artists back in the day.

417
00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:36,036
Speaker 1: But it's crazy too because I mean, like there was

418
00:20:36,036 --> 00:20:37,836
Speaker 1: like a bunch of records too that we love now

419
00:20:37,876 --> 00:20:41,036
Speaker 1: that I mean like Diamond Dogs. Yeah, not commercially and

420
00:20:41,076 --> 00:20:43,996
Speaker 1: critically but you find that Americans no one gave a fuck,

421
00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:45,956
Speaker 1: you know, critically exactly, you know.

422
00:20:45,916 --> 00:20:48,756
Speaker 2: Like exactly. But then you discover them after they have

423
00:20:48,916 --> 00:20:51,236
Speaker 2: like their big hit or whatever, and you can go

424
00:20:51,276 --> 00:20:53,356
Speaker 2: back and you can see this like breadth of work,

425
00:20:53,756 --> 00:20:56,836
Speaker 2: and that's the artists back in the day had that

426
00:20:56,996 --> 00:20:59,796
Speaker 2: time to develop. So for me, I still feel like

427
00:21:00,156 --> 00:21:02,836
Speaker 2: a new artist because I've still not had my Let's

428
00:21:02,916 --> 00:21:06,116
Speaker 2: dance yet. I've still not had that moment yet.

429
00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:08,036
Speaker 1: This feels pretty This feels like a let's dance in

430
00:21:08,076 --> 00:21:12,156
Speaker 1: a way like me, no, no, no, okay, what would

431
00:21:12,196 --> 00:21:15,356
Speaker 1: make what would make it feel like? That's what your moment?

432
00:21:15,436 --> 00:21:16,356
Speaker 1: Like that moment is.

433
00:21:16,676 --> 00:21:20,836
Speaker 2: For artists like myself that tend to either be like

434
00:21:21,996 --> 00:21:26,276
Speaker 2: very like off center of the curve or like sometimes

435
00:21:26,276 --> 00:21:29,276
Speaker 2: like to ahead of the curve. It's a kind of

436
00:21:30,076 --> 00:21:35,596
Speaker 2: magical universal gift that's slightly out of your hands. The

437
00:21:35,836 --> 00:21:38,556
Speaker 2: culture and what you're doing hit at the same time,

438
00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:42,396
Speaker 2: and you can't really control it, you know, you can't

439
00:21:42,436 --> 00:21:46,876
Speaker 2: actually like quite control that, like the cultural consciousness and

440
00:21:46,996 --> 00:21:52,196
Speaker 2: narrative needs exactly what you're doing at that time. And

441
00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:55,556
Speaker 2: then that's the moment, right, like I've actually not had

442
00:21:55,556 --> 00:21:57,916
Speaker 2: that moment, I'm either like way off to the left

443
00:21:58,036 --> 00:22:01,156
Speaker 2: or or like I'm almost a bit too ahead of

444
00:22:01,196 --> 00:22:05,236
Speaker 2: it sometimes with sounds or with ideas. And that's so fine,

445
00:22:05,276 --> 00:22:07,716
Speaker 2: Like honestly, I love my careers so much, Like if

446
00:22:07,756 --> 00:22:10,036
Speaker 2: this is what it is for me, Like I'm so blessed,

447
00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:13,716
Speaker 2: I'm so happy. But Bowie or Bowie? What do you say?

448
00:22:13,716 --> 00:22:16,796
Speaker 1: Bowie Bowie? But just but I think in the UK, Bowie,

449
00:22:16,876 --> 00:22:18,276
Speaker 1: which is it?

450
00:22:18,356 --> 00:22:21,556
Speaker 2: I'm not going to Okay, Tomato, Okay, so Bowie, like

451
00:22:22,036 --> 00:22:24,836
Speaker 2: you know he had that moment with Less Dance or

452
00:22:24,876 --> 00:22:29,956
Speaker 2: Byork had like it's also quiet? Yeah, And it's not

453
00:22:30,156 --> 00:22:33,156
Speaker 2: that what is that? Is it also quiet? The Bork song?

454
00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:34,236
Speaker 2: Is that what it's actually called her?

455
00:22:34,276 --> 00:22:36,716
Speaker 1: Is it? I'm really bad with it?

456
00:22:36,836 --> 00:22:42,956
Speaker 2: But it's okay shush the title, Yeah, okay, so shush,

457
00:22:43,276 --> 00:22:48,356
Speaker 2: so quiet for Byork. It's not that that song is

458
00:22:48,716 --> 00:22:51,396
Speaker 2: like better or worse than any of the rest of

459
00:22:51,396 --> 00:22:54,556
Speaker 2: her songs before that. It's that at that point with

460
00:22:54,916 --> 00:22:58,396
Speaker 2: that video that I think Spike Jones directed, that is

461
00:22:59,076 --> 00:23:02,516
Speaker 2: what culture needed to put her on the world stage.

462
00:23:02,756 --> 00:23:04,316
Speaker 2: And when I was a kid, that was actually the

463
00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:07,156
Speaker 2: first time I'd heard of Byork, you know, because I

464
00:23:07,196 --> 00:23:08,356
Speaker 2: was I think I was. I was a kid, and

465
00:23:08,356 --> 00:23:09,716
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I think I was in my early

466
00:23:09,756 --> 00:23:11,756
Speaker 2: teens maybe when that came out or when I became

467
00:23:11,916 --> 00:23:14,196
Speaker 2: aware of it, but then that was the entry point

468
00:23:14,236 --> 00:23:17,356
Speaker 2: to something way way, way, way way deeper. Yeah, but

469
00:23:17,436 --> 00:23:21,276
Speaker 2: she just had that more like global moment because that's

470
00:23:21,356 --> 00:23:23,796
Speaker 2: just what culture needed and that's what it latched onto.

471
00:23:24,516 --> 00:23:27,236
Speaker 1: But no, it's amazing though, too, like that because there

472
00:23:27,236 --> 00:23:30,956
Speaker 1: are some artists who have that moment that you're talking

473
00:23:30,956 --> 00:23:34,156
Speaker 1: about and then and then chase it or that's what

474
00:23:34,636 --> 00:23:37,196
Speaker 1: now they think they need to do. And then there

475
00:23:37,196 --> 00:23:40,676
Speaker 1: are people like York like Bowie who have it and

476
00:23:40,716 --> 00:23:43,796
Speaker 1: it's great and to keep on their pay Yeah, yeah,

477
00:23:43,876 --> 00:23:47,476
Speaker 1: stay weird. Yeah yeah. Maybe Neil Young's the same, right,

478
00:23:47,516 --> 00:23:50,756
Speaker 1: like had a lot ton of misses and then early

479
00:23:50,836 --> 00:23:53,836
Speaker 1: nineties has Harvest Moon or whatever, you know, and that's like,

480
00:23:54,076 --> 00:23:56,356
Speaker 1: you know what he's now he's used again in his

481
00:23:56,676 --> 00:23:59,436
Speaker 1: forties or fifties, even like that's probably the song is

482
00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:00,756
Speaker 1: most known for at this point.

483
00:24:00,956 --> 00:24:02,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

484
00:24:03,996 --> 00:24:07,916
Speaker 1: Jones has Dad Thriller in his fifty you know what I'm.

485
00:24:07,756 --> 00:24:10,316
Speaker 2: Saying exactly, But it takes that long, like it's just

486
00:24:10,356 --> 00:24:13,516
Speaker 2: about learning your craft. And I've learned so much, and

487
00:24:13,596 --> 00:24:17,196
Speaker 2: I've had to have weird moments in my musical journey

488
00:24:17,716 --> 00:24:21,796
Speaker 2: that I feel kind of like were like off kilter

489
00:24:21,916 --> 00:24:25,476
Speaker 2: for me. But those weird moments have made the moments

490
00:24:25,476 --> 00:24:29,436
Speaker 2: that have worked possible because I've learned how to structure

491
00:24:29,476 --> 00:24:32,676
Speaker 2: a song, or I've learned how to eke you a drum,

492
00:24:32,836 --> 00:24:35,356
Speaker 2: or I've learned about a rhythm that I hadn't done before.

493
00:24:35,396 --> 00:24:38,276
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's just about a few tries, you know.

494
00:24:38,316 --> 00:24:40,276
Speaker 2: Sometimes you try a song and you think it doesn't

495
00:24:40,356 --> 00:24:42,876
Speaker 2: quite work, but you release it because you know release it,

496
00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:44,796
Speaker 2: you think okay, and then you actually like almost do

497
00:24:44,916 --> 00:24:48,196
Speaker 2: that song again, but better, like two or three years later.

498
00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:50,636
Speaker 2: It's like the same song, it's the same DNA of

499
00:24:50,676 --> 00:24:52,516
Speaker 2: the song, and you do it later and then that's

500
00:24:52,556 --> 00:24:55,556
Speaker 2: the one that works. It's so strange how that works.

501
00:24:55,596 --> 00:24:57,996
Speaker 2: But you had to have the kind of not so

502
00:24:58,076 --> 00:25:00,876
Speaker 2: good version before for the next one to kind of hit.

503
00:25:01,156 --> 00:25:03,796
Speaker 1: There's an example of that that stands out to you.

504
00:25:04,396 --> 00:25:07,916
Speaker 2: I think like as a project catpre songs, I mean,

505
00:25:07,916 --> 00:25:10,796
Speaker 2: it was never like album, It's like a mixtape.

506
00:25:10,836 --> 00:25:12,716
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was a mixtape until it's a

507
00:25:12,756 --> 00:25:14,796
Speaker 1: mixtape till this week. I didn't I thought that was

508
00:25:14,796 --> 00:25:15,236
Speaker 1: an album.

509
00:25:15,316 --> 00:25:17,516
Speaker 2: No, no, it's a mixtape. I mean I made it quick.

510
00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:19,236
Speaker 2: It's like with after Glow for me as well, Like

511
00:25:19,276 --> 00:25:22,076
Speaker 2: these are projects that I make quite quickly and in

512
00:25:22,116 --> 00:25:25,436
Speaker 2: a different way to how I make like my record records.

513
00:25:26,956 --> 00:25:30,876
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of like experimentation. But Caprio songs

514
00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:33,756
Speaker 2: kind of like taught me how to write better songs,

515
00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:37,716
Speaker 2: even though there's not necessarily like even well written songs,

516
00:25:37,716 --> 00:25:41,316
Speaker 2: particularly on Caprio song. It's just but it's just like

517
00:25:41,356 --> 00:25:43,996
Speaker 2: a bit hookier, Like it's just it's just like there's

518
00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:47,036
Speaker 2: Caprio songs. It's like there's more hooks on it. They

519
00:25:47,116 --> 00:25:49,116
Speaker 2: might not be in the right order, like the hooks

520
00:25:49,116 --> 00:25:51,036
Speaker 2: probably aren't in the right order for like an amazing

521
00:25:51,076 --> 00:25:54,036
Speaker 2: pop song. But I just learned, like, oh, I found

522
00:25:54,036 --> 00:25:56,676
Speaker 2: my way to repeat a melody and do it in

523
00:25:56,676 --> 00:25:59,796
Speaker 2: my way because in my usual songwriting, I don't give

524
00:25:59,796 --> 00:26:01,956
Speaker 2: a fuck, I'll do a different melody for the verse,

525
00:26:01,996 --> 00:26:04,076
Speaker 2: the pre and the chorus won't a'll only happen once

526
00:26:04,276 --> 00:26:04,996
Speaker 2: because why not?

527
00:26:05,156 --> 00:26:05,356
Speaker 1: You know?

528
00:26:05,476 --> 00:26:07,636
Speaker 2: But do you know what I mean? Like sometimes I'm

529
00:26:07,636 --> 00:26:10,076
Speaker 2: like whatever it doesn't matter. But but with Caprew songs,

530
00:26:10,076 --> 00:26:14,596
Speaker 2: I learn about structure. I learn about like minimalism within

531
00:26:14,836 --> 00:26:20,796
Speaker 2: sounds that maybe are like more palatable to audiences. And

532
00:26:20,796 --> 00:26:23,676
Speaker 2: for me, it's like testing what I'm okay with because

533
00:26:23,676 --> 00:26:26,476
Speaker 2: sometimes when something is too like palatable or normal, I'm like, okay,

534
00:26:26,476 --> 00:26:28,956
Speaker 2: not for me, like I've lost my place in this now,

535
00:26:29,156 --> 00:26:31,156
Speaker 2: this is for someone else to do very well, like

536
00:26:31,196 --> 00:26:33,516
Speaker 2: I don't need to do that. But Capri Songs at

537
00:26:33,516 --> 00:26:36,036
Speaker 2: the time was about me because I've just come off Magdalen,

538
00:26:38,716 --> 00:26:41,396
Speaker 2: you know, kind of psychedelic. But but then Caprio songs,

539
00:26:41,396 --> 00:26:44,316
Speaker 2: I'm like testing, Like, am I comfortable with a drum

540
00:26:44,516 --> 00:26:46,596
Speaker 2: that doesn't change throughout a whole song? I don't know.

541
00:26:46,636 --> 00:26:48,676
Speaker 2: I've not done that before. My drums change all the time.

542
00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:50,676
Speaker 2: So am I comfortable with a rhythm this stays the same?

543
00:26:50,796 --> 00:26:53,356
Speaker 2: Am I comfortable with a repeating bassline? And I have

544
00:26:53,436 --> 00:26:55,236
Speaker 2: to like test it and I think, yeah, I can

545
00:26:55,276 --> 00:26:57,516
Speaker 2: do I can do that, Yeah I can do I

546
00:26:57,516 --> 00:26:59,996
Speaker 2: can do that rhythm, I can I can do a

547
00:27:00,036 --> 00:27:02,876
Speaker 2: structure that is like verse pre chorus, verse pre chorus,

548
00:27:02,876 --> 00:27:05,636
Speaker 2: Like I'm okay with that, But it's not. It's it's

549
00:27:05,676 --> 00:27:08,956
Speaker 2: like an It's like an experiment, and Capri songs was

550
00:27:08,956 --> 00:27:14,116
Speaker 2: all also an ode to uh my culture and the

551
00:27:14,236 --> 00:27:17,396
Speaker 2: music I was brought up on, like like not at

552
00:27:17,396 --> 00:27:20,716
Speaker 2: home so much, but with my friends, like a bit

553
00:27:20,756 --> 00:27:23,436
Speaker 2: of R and B Bashman dance or like more like

554
00:27:23,596 --> 00:27:26,116
Speaker 2: I guess like black rhythms, you know, because I'm biracial.

555
00:27:26,116 --> 00:27:29,276
Speaker 2: So I'm just looking at a constant like fucking crisis,

556
00:27:30,116 --> 00:27:32,876
Speaker 2: you know. Do you know what I mean about?

557
00:27:32,956 --> 00:27:34,276
Speaker 1: Like is your mom white or your dad?

558
00:27:34,476 --> 00:27:37,076
Speaker 2: My mom is Spanish and white and my dad is Jamaican,

559
00:27:37,316 --> 00:27:39,876
Speaker 2: but I was raised by a Beijing man, so I'm

560
00:27:39,916 --> 00:27:42,156
Speaker 2: even more confused because I have like different sides of

561
00:27:42,196 --> 00:27:45,236
Speaker 2: like the Caribbean coming at me that are very like opposing,

562
00:27:45,556 --> 00:27:49,196
Speaker 2: very competing. Yeah yeah, yeah, It's like I'm Jamaican in

563
00:27:49,276 --> 00:27:51,276
Speaker 2: my DNA, but I'm did.

564
00:27:51,116 --> 00:27:55,076
Speaker 1: You make it? I mean, come on culture obviously across

565
00:27:55,116 --> 00:27:55,956
Speaker 1: all cultures, you.

566
00:27:55,916 --> 00:27:58,676
Speaker 2: Know, Like yeah, you know, it's great. I feel it

567
00:27:58,716 --> 00:27:59,636
Speaker 2: in my blood. It's great.

568
00:27:59,676 --> 00:28:04,196
Speaker 1: No respect to your stepdad or anything. Yeah yeah, yeah.

569
00:28:03,996 --> 00:28:07,556
Speaker 2: But like yeah, it's great. Like I feel my like

570
00:28:07,756 --> 00:28:11,556
Speaker 2: black blood in me. I feel it tangibly like inside me,

571
00:28:11,636 --> 00:28:12,196
Speaker 2: and it's.

572
00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:15,356
Speaker 1: Like it's Spanish but that's kind of deep too, though.

573
00:28:15,396 --> 00:28:18,716
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you think about the Moorish influence

574
00:28:18,716 --> 00:28:20,956
Speaker 1: and all that, you know running through that music, and

575
00:28:20,996 --> 00:28:23,836
Speaker 1: that's like it's not something I haven't dolved into as

576
00:28:23,916 --> 00:28:25,996
Speaker 1: much as I you know, want to in the future.

577
00:28:26,036 --> 00:28:29,356
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. When I listened to

578
00:28:29,356 --> 00:28:30,676
Speaker 1: that stuff, it's like incredible.

579
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,836
Speaker 2: Yeah it is, it is. There's lots of stuff going

580
00:28:33,836 --> 00:28:36,316
Speaker 2: on in there, and yeah, Cabriot Songs was like more

581
00:28:36,316 --> 00:28:38,796
Speaker 2: of an ode to the rhythms that I think like

582
00:28:39,196 --> 00:28:42,796
Speaker 2: that I first latched onto maybe as a teenager going out.

583
00:28:42,796 --> 00:28:44,436
Speaker 2: I went to a lot of like bashman and dance

584
00:28:44,436 --> 00:28:48,076
Speaker 2: hall clubs and stuff. That was like my first experience

585
00:28:48,156 --> 00:28:51,956
Speaker 2: of like going to like illegal like nightclubs and stuff

586
00:28:51,956 --> 00:28:54,636
Speaker 2: like that. Was like dance hall clubs.

587
00:28:54,396 --> 00:28:56,836
Speaker 1: Were those like cool places to get that time or

588
00:28:56,916 --> 00:28:58,796
Speaker 1: just a place to be. So I don't know what

589
00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:02,116
Speaker 1: the layout of London's sort of nightlife is.

590
00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:06,156
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm from the country, so I'm like a country girl.

591
00:29:06,436 --> 00:29:09,556
Speaker 2: And where I grew up I was in place called

592
00:29:09,596 --> 00:29:12,916
Speaker 2: Gloucestershire and there's lots of different pockets. It's a really

593
00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:16,716
Speaker 2: interesting place because I was born in a place called Cheltenham,

594
00:29:17,156 --> 00:29:21,356
Speaker 2: which is very white, very very very white, and it's

595
00:29:21,476 --> 00:29:23,756
Speaker 2: very interesting because it's like in some ways when I

596
00:29:23,796 --> 00:29:27,316
Speaker 2: was growing up there, it is very affluent and it's

597
00:29:27,356 --> 00:29:29,676
Speaker 2: known as a commuters town, so it's where like a

598
00:29:29,716 --> 00:29:32,276
Speaker 2: lot of middle class people live that commute into London,

599
00:29:32,596 --> 00:29:35,316
Speaker 2: and it's very beautiful, Like there's a beautiful area called

600
00:29:35,316 --> 00:29:39,116
Speaker 2: Montpellier which is like just beautiful buildings and everything is

601
00:29:39,196 --> 00:29:42,076
Speaker 2: just so. And on the other side of it, there's

602
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:46,156
Speaker 2: a very big, like lower working class and working class

603
00:29:46,156 --> 00:29:48,676
Speaker 2: community and there's a lot of like travelers and it's

604
00:29:49,636 --> 00:29:53,116
Speaker 2: very a lot of farmers there, and on the other

605
00:29:53,156 --> 00:29:56,036
Speaker 2: side of it, you know, like it it's very raw

606
00:29:56,076 --> 00:30:01,676
Speaker 2: and it's very working class. And my upbringing was kind

607
00:30:01,676 --> 00:30:05,436
Speaker 2: of confusing because like my family's very working class and

608
00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:08,716
Speaker 2: they're from Birmingham, like working class Birmingham, which anyone that's

609
00:30:08,756 --> 00:30:11,836
Speaker 2: like from Birmingham or from England like knows exactly what

610
00:30:11,876 --> 00:30:14,236
Speaker 2: that means. But I think Birmingham's an amazing place. Is

611
00:30:14,276 --> 00:30:17,436
Speaker 2: often left out of the conversation a bit of the UK,

612
00:30:17,636 --> 00:30:19,716
Speaker 2: but I think it's a place that's very rich in culture,

613
00:30:19,756 --> 00:30:21,636
Speaker 2: and I think it's a place that's like there's like

614
00:30:21,676 --> 00:30:24,916
Speaker 2: a really big Aid, Indian and Asian community there, and

615
00:30:24,916 --> 00:30:28,156
Speaker 2: a really big black community there. Cheltenham is this one place,

616
00:30:28,756 --> 00:30:32,356
Speaker 2: but then Gloucester which is very close, it's just like

617
00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:34,836
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes away, and then Bristol, which is very close,

618
00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:36,916
Speaker 2: it's maybe like half an hour forty five minutes away,

619
00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:42,196
Speaker 2: is very rich in black culture and specifically Caribbean culture,

620
00:30:42,236 --> 00:30:44,076
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of people that have come straight

621
00:30:44,076 --> 00:30:46,556
Speaker 2: from the Caribbean, like have been there. And then this

622
00:30:46,636 --> 00:30:50,996
Speaker 2: is basically where like trip hop like laid its roots.

623
00:30:51,036 --> 00:30:56,556
Speaker 2: So this is like where Tricky's from Porter's Head, this

624
00:30:56,796 --> 00:31:01,356
Speaker 2: type of like music and music that its like trip hop,

625
00:31:01,396 --> 00:31:04,276
Speaker 2: but then also kind of a lot of dub as

626
00:31:04,316 --> 00:31:08,236
Speaker 2: well and jungle really like laid its roots in these areas.

627
00:31:08,316 --> 00:31:11,156
Speaker 2: There was this bus that went from Cheltenham to Gloston.

628
00:31:11,236 --> 00:31:14,316
Speaker 2: For me at fourteen, this bus was like a fucking

629
00:31:14,356 --> 00:31:18,276
Speaker 2: godsend because I went from this area where I was

630
00:31:18,316 --> 00:31:21,676
Speaker 2: the only black person in my area other than like

631
00:31:21,756 --> 00:31:25,036
Speaker 2: my stepdad. Yeah, I could get this bus after school

632
00:31:25,516 --> 00:31:28,716
Speaker 2: like twenty minutes and I was around then something completely different.

633
00:31:29,156 --> 00:31:32,356
Speaker 2: People that were from like the island I'm from, you know,

634
00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:35,556
Speaker 2: or half of me is from. And so when I

635
00:31:35,556 --> 00:31:37,476
Speaker 2: first started going out, Like there was this club called

636
00:31:37,516 --> 00:31:40,636
Speaker 2: the Jamaican Club that was like an illegal kind of

637
00:31:40,716 --> 00:31:43,116
Speaker 2: like I guess, I don't know a lot of like

638
00:31:43,196 --> 00:31:47,356
Speaker 2: rasters would go there and play dancehall, batsman reggae and

639
00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:49,596
Speaker 2: just like sit and hang and there would be food

640
00:31:49,716 --> 00:31:53,356
Speaker 2: and you would just go and like smoke until and dance.

641
00:31:53,476 --> 00:31:56,196
Speaker 2: And these are the nightclubs that I first started like

642
00:31:56,236 --> 00:32:00,156
Speaker 2: frequenting as a teenager. Anyways, So when I make Capbrey Songs,

643
00:32:00,196 --> 00:32:05,916
Speaker 2: it was kind of like an ode to that side

644
00:32:05,916 --> 00:32:06,156
Speaker 2: of me.

645
00:32:06,516 --> 00:32:09,796
Speaker 1: In the idea of it come out more as a

646
00:32:09,836 --> 00:32:14,476
Speaker 1: mixtape than an album. Was that always the intention it

647
00:32:14,596 --> 00:32:17,676
Speaker 1: was was to experiment and then release something that didn't

648
00:32:17,716 --> 00:32:19,956
Speaker 1: feel as definitive as an album.

649
00:32:20,156 --> 00:32:24,436
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like not really finished gapfree song. It's

650
00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:27,156
Speaker 2: not like exactly finished. I would say, it's like something

651
00:32:27,196 --> 00:32:30,116
Speaker 2: that was made. But it's same with after Glow, you know,

652
00:32:30,196 --> 00:32:32,036
Speaker 2: like after Glow is like not exactly finished.

653
00:32:32,236 --> 00:32:35,836
Speaker 1: I'm shocked at you. So you said, I don't even

654
00:32:35,876 --> 00:32:37,516
Speaker 1: know if we were recording then, but you said you

655
00:32:37,596 --> 00:32:38,836
Speaker 1: made that very quickly.

656
00:32:38,916 --> 00:32:40,036
Speaker 2: I made in twelve weeks.

657
00:32:40,116 --> 00:32:42,036
Speaker 1: Twelve weeks pretty much like one.

658
00:32:41,956 --> 00:32:43,156
Speaker 2: Or two songs I thought.

659
00:32:42,996 --> 00:32:44,916
Speaker 1: I just for some reason, it sounds it really does

660
00:32:44,956 --> 00:32:48,676
Speaker 1: sound like of a piece with To me, it sounds

661
00:32:48,716 --> 00:32:52,076
Speaker 1: like related enough that I thought maybe they were created

662
00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:53,996
Speaker 1: at the same time. You know.

663
00:32:54,596 --> 00:32:59,236
Speaker 2: No, I made after Glow because I wanted to like

664
00:33:00,156 --> 00:33:02,196
Speaker 2: have a strike so I could get off one of

665
00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:04,956
Speaker 2: my record labels. And I didn't want to be like

666
00:33:05,076 --> 00:33:08,236
Speaker 2: totally because like I really like respected that label, and

667
00:33:08,276 --> 00:33:11,076
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be like totally disrespectful and give

668
00:33:11,116 --> 00:33:13,396
Speaker 2: them trash, because I know some artists do that they

669
00:33:13,436 --> 00:33:16,476
Speaker 2: just think or whatever, there's another frank, Yeah, do you

670
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:17,836
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I didn't want to do that

671
00:33:17,916 --> 00:33:19,876
Speaker 2: because I respect them and we've had a really good

672
00:33:19,956 --> 00:33:25,356
Speaker 2: journey together. But I have this one song that for me,

673
00:33:25,436 --> 00:33:28,676
Speaker 2: it's like one of the most beautiful songs that I've written,

674
00:33:28,796 --> 00:33:31,676
Speaker 2: and I want it to come out this year and

675
00:33:32,036 --> 00:33:34,396
Speaker 2: I need to I needed to own the masters to

676
00:33:34,436 --> 00:33:37,636
Speaker 2: that song. Wow, and in like my record label, because

677
00:33:37,636 --> 00:33:39,516
Speaker 2: I was on two record labels. So on the one

678
00:33:39,556 --> 00:33:42,156
Speaker 2: that I'm still on now, I get my master's back,

679
00:33:42,276 --> 00:33:46,676
Speaker 2: which is Atlantic. Yeah, so on that like in a timeframe,

680
00:33:47,036 --> 00:33:50,756
Speaker 2: the idem is acceptable. I get those masters back and

681
00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:53,716
Speaker 2: this one song on the record, it's like, you know,

682
00:33:53,796 --> 00:33:56,676
Speaker 2: for me, it's it's like a cellophane. It's not in sound,

683
00:33:56,836 --> 00:33:59,396
Speaker 2: but in how important it is to me and how

684
00:33:59,436 --> 00:34:01,916
Speaker 2: important the lyrics are to me. You know, because when

685
00:34:01,956 --> 00:34:03,876
Speaker 2: you're an artist and you don't own your masters, it's

686
00:34:03,876 --> 00:34:06,556
Speaker 2: like painting and giving away paintings and you never get

687
00:34:06,556 --> 00:34:09,316
Speaker 2: them back. But when you own your masters, then even

688
00:34:09,356 --> 00:34:11,356
Speaker 2: if they live in a different gallery for a minute,

689
00:34:11,556 --> 00:34:14,676
Speaker 2: you get to you say, yeah, sure you can put

690
00:34:14,676 --> 00:34:18,436
Speaker 2: my work in your gallery for like ten years. That's fine, right,

691
00:34:18,796 --> 00:34:20,836
Speaker 2: But then in ten years I get to take that

692
00:34:20,956 --> 00:34:22,796
Speaker 2: work and I get to hang it back in my

693
00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:24,956
Speaker 2: living room and it can just be in my little

694
00:34:24,956 --> 00:34:27,196
Speaker 2: living room in Hackney, and I just get to hang

695
00:34:27,196 --> 00:34:28,876
Speaker 2: it on the wall and I get to say, like,

696
00:34:28,916 --> 00:34:31,556
Speaker 2: that's my work, you know, And that's that for me,

697
00:34:31,716 --> 00:34:34,476
Speaker 2: is like very important psychologically.

698
00:34:34,276 --> 00:34:37,636
Speaker 1: And obviously, I mean that's not on many people's radar

699
00:34:37,716 --> 00:34:39,356
Speaker 1: when you're starting out, like that's.

700
00:34:39,156 --> 00:34:41,676
Speaker 2: Not even not masters were No one even told me

701
00:34:41,716 --> 00:34:46,956
Speaker 2: what masters will copyright. I was like, I was like, okay,

702
00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:48,476
Speaker 2: what's incredible.

703
00:34:48,476 --> 00:34:50,836
Speaker 1: You're getting on back. Then you're in a situation where

704
00:34:50,836 --> 00:34:52,956
Speaker 1: you're able to get to a point.

705
00:34:52,756 --> 00:34:55,356
Speaker 2: Where, yeah, my new music now I get them back.

706
00:34:55,556 --> 00:34:57,396
Speaker 2: But I think that's the thing, you know, going back

707
00:34:57,396 --> 00:35:00,396
Speaker 2: to when I started making music. It's not anything bad

708
00:35:00,676 --> 00:35:04,196
Speaker 2: about my old label. It's just that deals looked different then, yeah,

709
00:35:04,236 --> 00:35:07,116
Speaker 2: and I signed a deal that had like many records

710
00:35:07,116 --> 00:35:10,076
Speaker 2: in it, and so now like it's more normal that

711
00:35:10,236 --> 00:35:12,516
Speaker 2: artists like keep their masters or maybe even have like

712
00:35:12,796 --> 00:35:16,756
Speaker 2: shorter record deals, which means that you can make choices

713
00:35:16,756 --> 00:35:18,236
Speaker 2: that you do a record and you decide if you

714
00:35:18,236 --> 00:35:20,116
Speaker 2: want to stay together or you decide if it's time

715
00:35:20,156 --> 00:35:22,676
Speaker 2: to move on and stuff like that. But it's really,

716
00:35:22,716 --> 00:35:24,516
Speaker 2: you know, I want to I'm always very careful. I

717
00:35:24,556 --> 00:35:26,556
Speaker 2: want to be like very respectful to the relationship I

718
00:35:26,636 --> 00:35:28,716
Speaker 2: had with Beggars and Young because genuinely, like I had

719
00:35:28,756 --> 00:35:29,356
Speaker 2: a fab time.

720
00:35:29,636 --> 00:35:30,396
Speaker 1: It's a great lay one.

721
00:35:30,516 --> 00:35:33,396
Speaker 2: It's a great way for arts exactly, but it's just

722
00:35:33,476 --> 00:35:35,956
Speaker 2: at certain point, like I grew to a point where,

723
00:35:36,676 --> 00:35:39,316
Speaker 2: you know, if I write a song like Cellophane, or

724
00:35:39,316 --> 00:35:43,356
Speaker 2: if I write certain music that has changed my life

725
00:35:43,356 --> 00:35:46,116
Speaker 2: that's had like a visceral effect on my chemistry as

726
00:35:46,116 --> 00:35:48,596
Speaker 2: an artist, and then I write that thing and it's

727
00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:50,556
Speaker 2: sitting in front of me, and then I have to

728
00:35:50,636 --> 00:35:55,476
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, a certain point after over

729
00:35:55,516 --> 00:35:59,916
Speaker 2: a decade of making music, like it's it's stunting, It's

730
00:36:00,196 --> 00:36:03,396
Speaker 2: people don't really think about the psychological effect of contracts

731
00:36:03,436 --> 00:36:04,196
Speaker 2: on artists.

732
00:36:04,476 --> 00:36:08,596
Speaker 1: What is what's the new song called Bluebird? Bluebird? And

733
00:36:09,116 --> 00:36:13,236
Speaker 1: do you know as you're writing it that it's that important?

734
00:36:13,276 --> 00:36:15,116
Speaker 1: Is there feeling to you or is it only after

735
00:36:15,156 --> 00:36:17,516
Speaker 1: the fact and after you're a kistos?

736
00:36:18,596 --> 00:36:21,236
Speaker 2: Yeah? And it might not mean anything to anyone else,

737
00:36:21,276 --> 00:36:23,156
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like to me sometimes I write

738
00:36:23,196 --> 00:36:25,036
Speaker 2: things and it's like so about my life.

739
00:36:25,116 --> 00:36:26,916
Speaker 1: So you knew where that was coming from as it

740
00:36:26,956 --> 00:36:30,116
Speaker 1: was coming out. Yeah, And do you all do you

741
00:36:30,196 --> 00:36:31,796
Speaker 1: always know where things are coming from?

742
00:36:31,996 --> 00:36:34,956
Speaker 2: No? Like, sometimes I think I have moments of being

743
00:36:34,996 --> 00:36:38,876
Speaker 2: like a really like special precious artist where I've done

744
00:36:38,876 --> 00:36:40,996
Speaker 2: something and I feel like I'm so grateful that I

745
00:36:41,036 --> 00:36:42,996
Speaker 2: was able to be a conduit for that moment and

746
00:36:43,076 --> 00:36:45,276
Speaker 2: I feel really like, wow, I'm so grateful to be

747
00:36:45,316 --> 00:36:47,116
Speaker 2: alive in this body and like have just made that

748
00:36:47,196 --> 00:36:50,476
Speaker 2: almost makes me emotional. And then sometimes I'm like having

749
00:36:50,516 --> 00:36:54,276
Speaker 2: fun or sometimes it's just like yep, you know, like

750
00:36:54,396 --> 00:36:59,196
Speaker 2: just a little like flirtation and it's like not that deep,

751
00:36:59,956 --> 00:37:02,396
Speaker 2: you know, but I need both because that's my personality.

752
00:37:02,796 --> 00:37:06,396
Speaker 1: I feel like that personality comes through and a lot

753
00:37:06,396 --> 00:37:08,636
Speaker 1: of your music, like when you're making pre songs you

754
00:37:08,956 --> 00:37:10,876
Speaker 1: were trying to just make see if you could just

755
00:37:11,036 --> 00:37:14,076
Speaker 1: stick with like you know, like a drum loop, that

756
00:37:14,156 --> 00:37:17,836
Speaker 1: was like that's it. Like your songs expand and contract

757
00:37:17,956 --> 00:37:20,396
Speaker 1: and move and like all like they're just malleable and

758
00:37:20,436 --> 00:37:22,836
Speaker 1: these really cool ways that not a lot of people

759
00:37:23,236 --> 00:37:25,236
Speaker 1: make songs like that anymore. Not a lot of people

760
00:37:25,276 --> 00:37:27,236
Speaker 1: make records that way. They're like that feel that adventurous

761
00:37:27,276 --> 00:37:30,276
Speaker 1: from like we're within one song, you've gone on a

762
00:37:30,316 --> 00:37:33,756
Speaker 1: complete journey. And then when you think about some of

763
00:37:33,756 --> 00:37:35,236
Speaker 1: the lyrics of these songs too, is that you can

764
00:37:35,276 --> 00:37:37,876
Speaker 1: tell there's like there's a seriousness sometimes and then there's

765
00:37:37,876 --> 00:37:40,836
Speaker 1: a play like all those I feel like that does

766
00:37:40,876 --> 00:37:41,236
Speaker 1: come through.

767
00:37:41,236 --> 00:37:43,996
Speaker 2: I think in your music, Thank you, that's my personality.

768
00:37:44,076 --> 00:37:48,196
Speaker 2: I'm like either very serious and very like intense or

769
00:37:48,236 --> 00:37:51,996
Speaker 2: I'm just like a kid. Yeah, I'm just so playful

770
00:37:52,036 --> 00:37:53,796
Speaker 2: and it's like silly.

771
00:37:54,876 --> 00:37:58,076
Speaker 1: One last break and we'll be back with FKA Twigs.

772
00:38:01,916 --> 00:38:04,436
Speaker 1: My favorite print song is one of I don't know

773
00:38:04,476 --> 00:38:06,116
Speaker 1: what my favorite is, but one of my Favorites is

774
00:38:06,196 --> 00:38:08,916
Speaker 1: ballad of Dorothy Parker and there's a line where he

775
00:38:08,916 --> 00:38:13,236
Speaker 1: says or he's like, he's he's he's met this woman.

776
00:38:13,796 --> 00:38:15,476
Speaker 1: She's like, do you want to like take a bubble bath?

777
00:38:15,516 --> 00:38:17,836
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, but I'm gonna leave my pants on.

778
00:38:20,036 --> 00:38:23,316
Speaker 1: I always think about that with friends. I'm like, it's

779
00:38:23,356 --> 00:38:26,236
Speaker 1: like it's bold, but it's coy, and it's like it's

780
00:38:26,436 --> 00:38:31,716
Speaker 1: and it's like who does that? There's so many layers

781
00:38:31,756 --> 00:38:32,076
Speaker 1: to that.

782
00:38:32,596 --> 00:38:37,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's so fun. It's so fun making fun

783
00:38:37,436 --> 00:38:38,836
Speaker 2: of yourself on songs.

784
00:38:39,316 --> 00:38:41,236
Speaker 1: Why why is that? Like what makes that.

785
00:38:41,436 --> 00:38:43,756
Speaker 2: So it feels like an in joke with yourself? Like

786
00:38:43,836 --> 00:38:45,436
Speaker 2: I don't know that I'm even just thinking of like

787
00:38:45,436 --> 00:38:48,756
Speaker 2: on sushi because I'm like, like I can't drive yet.

788
00:38:49,156 --> 00:38:52,156
Speaker 2: I still can't drive, So I'm like on this song

789
00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:54,716
Speaker 2: like being like a boss thing, like I'm gonna take

790
00:38:54,756 --> 00:38:56,796
Speaker 2: it out to all these different places, but like I

791
00:38:56,876 --> 00:38:58,636
Speaker 2: can't drive yet, so I'm gonna have to get my

792
00:38:58,716 --> 00:39:01,156
Speaker 2: friend to come and pick you up so we can

793
00:39:01,196 --> 00:39:02,916
Speaker 2: go out. Like I didn't know if it's like it's

794
00:39:02,956 --> 00:39:05,876
Speaker 2: only funny to me, but it's just funny sometimes to

795
00:39:06,236 --> 00:39:09,676
Speaker 2: just like make fun of yourself for sometimes a really

796
00:39:09,716 --> 00:39:12,036
Speaker 2: intimate secret that people might not pick up on.

797
00:39:12,236 --> 00:39:14,276
Speaker 1: It's funny brought Sushi was a song that made me

798
00:39:14,316 --> 00:39:16,436
Speaker 1: think about a Dorothy Parker because there are those moments

799
00:39:16,476 --> 00:39:18,556
Speaker 1: of like it's like it's it's it's bold, but it's

800
00:39:18,556 --> 00:39:22,316
Speaker 1: also a little like I said that and I'm going

801
00:39:22,396 --> 00:39:24,756
Speaker 1: to pull it back even you're like, you know, like, oh,

802
00:39:24,756 --> 00:39:26,956
Speaker 1: we could have I'm gonna yeah, I don't remember the

803
00:39:26,996 --> 00:39:29,276
Speaker 1: line we're going to have sex. We could have sex,

804
00:39:29,356 --> 00:39:32,356
Speaker 1: but we don't have to. I like that. It's just

805
00:39:32,356 --> 00:39:33,676
Speaker 1: like what are we doing.

806
00:39:34,196 --> 00:39:39,516
Speaker 2: It's like, it's like what adults. We can do what

807
00:39:39,556 --> 00:39:41,556
Speaker 2: we like, we can do what we want to do.

808
00:39:41,756 --> 00:39:45,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a really funny framing for that, and

809
00:39:45,516 --> 00:39:47,116
Speaker 1: it's a it's just a framing you don't hear a

810
00:39:47,116 --> 00:39:49,876
Speaker 1: lot in the contours of pop music.

811
00:39:49,996 --> 00:39:53,476
Speaker 2: You know, Yes, to be honest, it's funny that you

812
00:39:53,556 --> 00:39:55,636
Speaker 2: bring up Prince because when I was writing that first

813
00:39:55,636 --> 00:39:58,516
Speaker 2: part of Sushi, I actually thought about him when I

814
00:39:58,556 --> 00:40:02,276
Speaker 2: was writing it. It's just about like that that playfulness

815
00:40:02,356 --> 00:40:05,916
Speaker 2: and acknowledging, like the power play of like being a star,

816
00:40:06,956 --> 00:40:10,156
Speaker 2: whilst also leaning into so like that you can still

817
00:40:10,196 --> 00:40:12,756
Speaker 2: be so shy and vulnerable. It's like this double thing

818
00:40:12,796 --> 00:40:14,916
Speaker 2: of like I'm going to fucking fly you to Paris

819
00:40:15,156 --> 00:40:17,956
Speaker 2: slash like I can't drive, so my friend's going to

820
00:40:17,996 --> 00:40:19,196
Speaker 2: get you actually from the airport.

821
00:40:19,236 --> 00:40:19,436
Speaker 1: You know.

822
00:40:19,516 --> 00:40:23,516
Speaker 2: It's kind of like this this powerplay of of like

823
00:40:23,636 --> 00:40:25,796
Speaker 2: knowing as a star you can do what you like,

824
00:40:25,916 --> 00:40:28,756
Speaker 2: but also you're still like so prohibited and essentially like

825
00:40:28,796 --> 00:40:31,956
Speaker 2: a kid. Moonlighting is an adult still but in like

826
00:40:31,996 --> 00:40:34,876
Speaker 2: a fab outfit. You've had like full glam, but you

827
00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:36,396
Speaker 2: still have no idea what you're doing. You know.

828
00:40:36,476 --> 00:40:39,196
Speaker 1: It sounds like that's like that's a great life, that's it.

829
00:40:39,196 --> 00:40:41,876
Speaker 2: It's weird.

830
00:40:42,316 --> 00:40:46,156
Speaker 1: I read that raves were really important to this album. Yeah,

831
00:40:46,196 --> 00:40:49,316
Speaker 1: and I imagine raves in Europe. It's particularly it was

832
00:40:49,356 --> 00:40:52,116
Speaker 1: it was specifically it was Prague. I mean, I'm not

833
00:40:52,156 --> 00:40:54,276
Speaker 1: even have gone a rave here, to be honest, I

834
00:40:54,316 --> 00:40:57,556
Speaker 1: have no conception of what rave culture is like. But

835
00:40:57,596 --> 00:41:00,436
Speaker 1: what is it like? What is it? What's a learn

836
00:41:00,516 --> 00:41:03,156
Speaker 1: about it to you? And how did that work its

837
00:41:03,196 --> 00:41:07,116
Speaker 1: way into this album or these couple of projects.

838
00:41:07,436 --> 00:41:09,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've always been very scared of like

839
00:41:09,396 --> 00:41:12,276
Speaker 2: a four to four beat, you know, even I think

840
00:41:12,756 --> 00:41:14,596
Speaker 2: in the past like mocked it. I mean I used

841
00:41:14,596 --> 00:41:17,076
Speaker 2: to mark like trap pads, you know. I used to

842
00:41:17,076 --> 00:41:19,836
Speaker 2: be like like I'd be like, no, I'm not doing that,

843
00:41:19,876 --> 00:41:21,836
Speaker 2: like you know, especially like LP one era, like the

844
00:41:22,316 --> 00:41:25,356
Speaker 2: hat's always like changing, like even like BPM, and I'd

845
00:41:25,396 --> 00:41:26,876
Speaker 2: always just be like I don't want like a straight

846
00:41:26,996 --> 00:41:30,636
Speaker 2: like track, like I don't want something that's really really straight.

847
00:41:31,116 --> 00:41:32,916
Speaker 2: And I used to say like that, you know, like

848
00:41:33,196 --> 00:41:34,996
Speaker 2: I don't want like a four to the floor beat,

849
00:41:35,156 --> 00:41:39,076
Speaker 2: like I want this kind of like abstract landscape. So

850
00:41:39,236 --> 00:41:41,956
Speaker 2: the idea that I based a whole album off like techno,

851
00:41:42,036 --> 00:41:44,476
Speaker 2: which is like that's the premise of techno, is like

852
00:41:44,676 --> 00:41:47,116
Speaker 2: actually so humbling to me, and it just shows kind

853
00:41:47,116 --> 00:41:49,516
Speaker 2: of how your taste can change. And yeah, I didn't

854
00:41:49,556 --> 00:41:51,796
Speaker 2: ever really think that techno music was for me, and

855
00:41:51,836 --> 00:41:56,396
Speaker 2: then I started to discover techno, first of all in Prague,

856
00:41:56,836 --> 00:42:01,276
Speaker 2: and then second of all, like in like queer spaces

857
00:42:01,316 --> 00:42:04,356
Speaker 2: that were more inviting for me, and I found my

858
00:42:04,396 --> 00:42:07,836
Speaker 2: way in I don't know, and maybe it's like being black,

859
00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:10,756
Speaker 2: like sometimes I felt like some music's aren't certain types

860
00:42:10,796 --> 00:42:13,196
Speaker 2: of music aren't for me. I mean I literally did

861
00:42:13,236 --> 00:42:15,956
Speaker 2: an interview earlier and I was speaking about this, and

862
00:42:15,996 --> 00:42:18,596
Speaker 2: maybe sometimes I felt that like I couldn't like listen

863
00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:22,236
Speaker 2: to that because it's like not not like I'm not

864
00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:25,036
Speaker 2: allowed to or like there's not an infamy in the

865
00:42:25,076 --> 00:42:27,276
Speaker 2: scene because like I can't my skinny jeans or something

866
00:42:27,276 --> 00:42:29,036
Speaker 2: because my thighs are too big. I don't know, but like,

867
00:42:29,076 --> 00:42:30,596
Speaker 2: do you know what I'm saying, Like it's just like

868
00:42:30,636 --> 00:42:34,476
Speaker 2: that the preconceived notions of being like a teenager and thinking,

869
00:42:34,516 --> 00:42:36,356
Speaker 2: like I think I have to have like straight hair

870
00:42:36,396 --> 00:42:39,036
Speaker 2: pushed to the side to be when I'm from like

871
00:42:39,076 --> 00:42:41,916
Speaker 2: MySpace era, I have to like be able to do

872
00:42:42,036 --> 00:42:43,796
Speaker 2: that to like listen to like emo music.

873
00:42:43,836 --> 00:42:45,476
Speaker 1: I had a metal band in the MySpace era, so

874
00:42:45,476 --> 00:42:47,356
Speaker 1: I get you exactly.

875
00:42:47,636 --> 00:42:50,796
Speaker 2: So I think, like naively, I thought that techno wasn't

876
00:42:51,356 --> 00:42:53,396
Speaker 2: for me, and then I started to like do my

877
00:42:53,516 --> 00:42:57,756
Speaker 2: research and obviously learn that, you know, dance music like

878
00:42:57,836 --> 00:43:00,756
Speaker 2: has had so many incredible like Black Pioneers and the

879
00:43:00,756 --> 00:43:04,196
Speaker 2: whole like Chicago scene. And I remember like when I

880
00:43:04,276 --> 00:43:07,116
Speaker 2: went to Prague and I had this sort of spiritual

881
00:43:07,196 --> 00:43:11,276
Speaker 2: awakening in this club and then I went back home

882
00:43:11,316 --> 00:43:14,796
Speaker 2: and then I started to yeah research like house music

883
00:43:14,916 --> 00:43:17,476
Speaker 2: and Chicago and all these incredible DJs, and I just

884
00:43:17,596 --> 00:43:19,196
Speaker 2: was like, oh, do I not know about this? I

885
00:43:19,356 --> 00:43:21,476
Speaker 2: just I was like I didn't know, you know, I

886
00:43:21,476 --> 00:43:24,036
Speaker 2: didn't know. And and then I started to dive deeper

887
00:43:24,076 --> 00:43:26,916
Speaker 2: and deeper. And I still even with dance music, like

888
00:43:26,916 --> 00:43:29,316
Speaker 2: on New Sexual, I don't and even on After Girl,

889
00:43:29,356 --> 00:43:31,836
Speaker 2: I feel like I've still not quite like invented this

890
00:43:31,916 --> 00:43:34,796
Speaker 2: music or done this music that I feel in my head.

891
00:43:34,916 --> 00:43:37,356
Speaker 2: So it's really fun to keep on like trying this just.

892
00:43:37,316 --> 00:43:37,916
Speaker 1: Like an iteration.

893
00:43:38,036 --> 00:43:40,476
Speaker 2: This is like the first yeah, yeah exactly. It's like

894
00:43:40,516 --> 00:43:42,716
Speaker 2: it's like now I can keep on playing with dance music.

895
00:43:43,156 --> 00:43:45,316
Speaker 2: And then recently I've been listening to a lot of

896
00:43:45,396 --> 00:43:47,756
Speaker 2: acid house, which which is.

897
00:43:47,716 --> 00:43:49,916
Speaker 1: Like how does that relate to, like, how's it different

898
00:43:49,956 --> 00:43:51,116
Speaker 1: from the regular house.

899
00:43:52,876 --> 00:43:55,076
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not very good with like like

900
00:43:56,196 --> 00:44:00,196
Speaker 2: the technicalities of like genres, but to me, like acid house,

901
00:44:00,636 --> 00:44:02,636
Speaker 2: it feels more cunty. That's more of like a stank

902
00:44:02,756 --> 00:44:05,356
Speaker 2: to it. It feels like like walking down a catwalk,

903
00:44:05,476 --> 00:44:08,516
Speaker 2: or it feels like something that's like I don't know.

904
00:44:08,556 --> 00:44:10,356
Speaker 2: I mean, we were last night I was like doing

905
00:44:10,676 --> 00:44:14,076
Speaker 2: like a fitting for a red carpet, and then it

906
00:44:14,116 --> 00:44:16,356
Speaker 2: was like acid house. But then it was like a

907
00:44:16,436 --> 00:44:19,396
Speaker 2: mood glare like fashion show and seeing how like the

908
00:44:19,436 --> 00:44:22,276
Speaker 2: models like walked to it and stuff, and I was

909
00:44:22,316 --> 00:44:25,716
Speaker 2: like I understand that, like physically, I understand that language.

910
00:44:25,996 --> 00:44:29,236
Speaker 2: And that was very inspiring. But anyway, yeah, back to Prague,

911
00:44:29,236 --> 00:44:32,556
Speaker 2: like I just had this massive epiphany of togetherness on

912
00:44:32,596 --> 00:44:35,876
Speaker 2: a dance floor in a different way. That was very

913
00:44:35,916 --> 00:44:40,956
Speaker 2: singular because going to bashment clubs in the early noughties

914
00:44:41,876 --> 00:44:45,596
Speaker 2: is about what was about like winding, It was about grinding.

915
00:44:45,676 --> 00:44:49,756
Speaker 2: It was about like doing movements that were the same.

916
00:44:49,876 --> 00:44:52,956
Speaker 2: There were like you know, like dance movements that you

917
00:44:52,996 --> 00:44:55,956
Speaker 2: would do like together, and you would like learn the

918
00:44:56,076 --> 00:44:57,876
Speaker 2: dance movements and then you would get together on the

919
00:44:57,956 --> 00:45:02,396
Speaker 2: dance floor and communally do them, like the candy dance,

920
00:45:02,636 --> 00:45:05,916
Speaker 2: but in a different genre. You would do this part

921
00:45:06,156 --> 00:45:08,716
Speaker 2: of that dance to this music techno is different because

922
00:45:08,756 --> 00:45:12,556
Speaker 2: you're b yourself and it's actually maybe like unorthodox to

923
00:45:12,716 --> 00:45:14,556
Speaker 2: like try and invite people.

924
00:45:14,676 --> 00:45:16,996
Speaker 1: You don't dance with other people, No, you.

925
00:45:16,876 --> 00:45:21,236
Speaker 2: Do, but it's like a very it's psych surfing. There

926
00:45:21,236 --> 00:45:26,556
Speaker 2: are rules in dance clubs like surfing said, Yeah, there's

927
00:45:26,636 --> 00:45:29,916
Speaker 2: rules of waves in surfing, like you don't like the

928
00:45:29,956 --> 00:45:33,636
Speaker 2: way that surfers navigate the waves is very respectful. You

929
00:45:33,636 --> 00:45:36,036
Speaker 2: don't just go and like take that wave. I don't

930
00:45:36,076 --> 00:45:37,596
Speaker 2: just go to a beach I've never been before, Like

931
00:45:37,636 --> 00:45:38,996
Speaker 2: that's a big wave, I'm going to take it. It's

932
00:45:38,996 --> 00:45:41,116
Speaker 2: like there's like an order of things. It's like that

933
00:45:41,236 --> 00:45:44,636
Speaker 2: the more the better surfers might take that wave where

934
00:45:44,636 --> 00:45:46,516
Speaker 2: you've had your turn, and then you give someone else

935
00:45:46,556 --> 00:45:49,236
Speaker 2: a thing, and there's a respect to it. That is

936
00:45:49,276 --> 00:45:51,956
Speaker 2: the way the best dance clubs work, where there's a

937
00:45:52,076 --> 00:45:55,956
Speaker 2: respect to the way you would approach someone on the

938
00:45:56,036 --> 00:46:00,356
Speaker 2: dance floor, or you wouldn't because you see that they're

939
00:46:00,396 --> 00:46:04,716
Speaker 2: in their like flow state or they're like you know,

940
00:46:04,836 --> 00:46:07,716
Speaker 2: like it's called like tunneling, Like you like tunnel to

941
00:46:07,756 --> 00:46:09,116
Speaker 2: the music where you're just like in.

942
00:46:09,236 --> 00:46:11,916
Speaker 1: Your like you just look tunnel that you look like.

943
00:46:11,836 --> 00:46:15,716
Speaker 2: You're yeah, just like you know, because it's primal, you know,

944
00:46:15,836 --> 00:46:17,876
Speaker 2: like to do the same movement over and over again.

945
00:46:17,916 --> 00:46:20,076
Speaker 2: It's very primal, and so sometimes you just have to

946
00:46:20,116 --> 00:46:22,556
Speaker 2: like respect that people are like working out their own

947
00:46:22,596 --> 00:46:27,956
Speaker 2: fucking like thing. But it's also very together. But that's

948
00:46:27,996 --> 00:46:30,476
Speaker 2: what Rumor Fools was about. Like this rumor falls. We

949
00:46:30,556 --> 00:46:34,276
Speaker 2: make something together. It's like if you separate one of

950
00:46:34,316 --> 00:46:36,796
Speaker 2: the dancers in the club, they look crazy because that's

951
00:46:36,836 --> 00:46:39,156
Speaker 2: like moving and it's not about looking good. It's just

952
00:46:39,236 --> 00:46:42,476
Speaker 2: about like moving and feeling something. And it's quite like

953
00:46:42,556 --> 00:46:46,076
Speaker 2: sporadic and it's full of ecstasy and it's very like primal,

954
00:46:46,156 --> 00:46:49,196
Speaker 2: and it's and it's like very practical. You don't wouldn't

955
00:46:49,196 --> 00:46:50,916
Speaker 2: like wear heels to a rage, do you know what

956
00:46:50,956 --> 00:46:53,636
Speaker 2: I mean? It's like you wouldn't wear something uncomfortable. It's

957
00:46:53,676 --> 00:46:57,676
Speaker 2: about being comfortable. It's about like the utilitarian nature of

958
00:46:57,716 --> 00:47:00,716
Speaker 2: what it is to move together, and that's priority. It's

959
00:47:00,756 --> 00:47:03,716
Speaker 2: almost kind of like comfort within your body to the beat,

960
00:47:05,836 --> 00:47:10,436
Speaker 2: whereas yeah, like you just wouldn't like eject someone's moment.

961
00:47:10,796 --> 00:47:13,316
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the whole crowd is moving

962
00:47:13,356 --> 00:47:16,276
Speaker 2: together as one, so it's very beautiful. It's like you're

963
00:47:16,316 --> 00:47:19,476
Speaker 2: like an ameba and you're all cells and together you're

964
00:47:19,556 --> 00:47:23,436
Speaker 2: like a very important community. When I go like raving,

965
00:47:23,516 --> 00:47:28,916
Speaker 2: I think like this right now is quite possibly the

966
00:47:28,916 --> 00:47:34,316
Speaker 2: most important moment in culture. This rave right now, with

967
00:47:34,556 --> 00:47:37,636
Speaker 2: the drop, the way that the fucking DJ just brought

968
00:47:37,636 --> 00:47:39,676
Speaker 2: in those high hats and the way that the crowd

969
00:47:39,716 --> 00:47:43,076
Speaker 2: responded is quite possibly the most important thing that has

970
00:47:43,156 --> 00:47:46,236
Speaker 2: ever happened in history in this room right now. But

971
00:47:46,276 --> 00:47:51,276
Speaker 2: it's just like completely contained. It's like completely contained that

972
00:47:51,716 --> 00:47:54,356
Speaker 2: something will happen, and everyone's just like, that is exactly

973
00:47:54,356 --> 00:47:56,076
Speaker 2: what I wanted to happen in the music. And you

974
00:47:56,156 --> 00:47:58,996
Speaker 2: just see the relief, the physical relief that that fucking

975
00:47:59,076 --> 00:48:01,596
Speaker 2: high hat came in. You're just like, thank god, I've

976
00:48:01,636 --> 00:48:05,556
Speaker 2: been waiting for seven minutes. I've been like listening to

977
00:48:05,636 --> 00:48:09,396
Speaker 2: that four four drum. I have my body, it's been

978
00:48:09,396 --> 00:48:12,516
Speaker 2: a slave to that drum for seven minutes, and now

979
00:48:12,796 --> 00:48:15,716
Speaker 2: a high hat has come in and this surely is heaven,

980
00:48:16,076 --> 00:48:18,116
Speaker 2: Like this is surely the best thing that's ever happened

981
00:48:18,156 --> 00:48:20,436
Speaker 2: in the whole world. But it's just like contained to

982
00:48:20,476 --> 00:48:23,716
Speaker 2: this one room and no one knows about it. And

983
00:48:23,756 --> 00:48:26,036
Speaker 2: the next morning you can't even really explain it. You

984
00:48:26,116 --> 00:48:28,036
Speaker 2: know that I'm.

985
00:48:27,836 --> 00:48:31,636
Speaker 1: Probably ready to go to Friday Night.

986
00:48:31,716 --> 00:48:42,036
Speaker 2: I'm talking about Yeah, anyone else, no, Ben, Yeah, Nick knows,

987
00:48:43,036 --> 00:48:47,636
Speaker 2: everyone knows. Yeah, But this is there are spaces for everybody,

988
00:48:47,756 --> 00:48:51,476
Speaker 2: you know, there's spaces for everybody. And that's what I realized,

989
00:48:51,476 --> 00:48:52,436
Speaker 2: that there's space is for.

990
00:48:52,436 --> 00:48:55,716
Speaker 1: Me, it's fucking wild. But in Prague, of all places,

991
00:48:55,716 --> 00:48:56,436
Speaker 1: this is where.

992
00:48:56,796 --> 00:49:00,916
Speaker 2: Well not really, it's like East Block, I don't know,

993
00:49:00,956 --> 00:49:03,916
Speaker 2: like there's this kind of a pioneer like actually it's

994
00:49:03,916 --> 00:49:08,796
Speaker 2: actually like a very important to dance music and like

995
00:49:08,876 --> 00:49:11,156
Speaker 2: you're its like an incredible dance scene.

996
00:49:11,636 --> 00:49:13,836
Speaker 1: I'm ready to I'm ready to go rave.

997
00:49:14,196 --> 00:49:17,636
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's pretty good. It's very It makes you like

998
00:49:17,716 --> 00:49:18,396
Speaker 2: not really care.

999
00:49:18,916 --> 00:49:20,716
Speaker 1: Can you be sober? Yeah?

1000
00:49:20,516 --> 00:49:22,956
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, one hundred percent. I didn't think so,

1001
00:49:23,036 --> 00:49:25,836
Speaker 2: but then actually you can really Yeah, yeah you really can. Yeah.

1002
00:49:25,876 --> 00:49:27,876
Speaker 2: I can totally go and be completely sober.

1003
00:49:27,996 --> 00:49:31,956
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I got too many responsibility got there doing ecstasy?

1004
00:49:32,316 --> 00:49:34,476
Speaker 1: No no, no, you can push forty out there doing

1005
00:49:34,516 --> 00:49:35,716
Speaker 1: ecstasy at a rave. I don't know.

1006
00:49:35,836 --> 00:49:38,076
Speaker 2: No, you can totally go and be sober, like it's

1007
00:49:38,556 --> 00:49:39,516
Speaker 2: amazing sober.

1008
00:49:40,436 --> 00:49:45,236
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna dip my toes in, my toes in. Well,

1009
00:49:45,636 --> 00:49:47,476
Speaker 1: it was great speaking with you. It was like an

1010
00:49:47,476 --> 00:49:51,276
Speaker 1: incredible conversation. I went many places. I feel like I'm

1011
00:49:51,316 --> 00:49:54,316
Speaker 1: better for having had it. And I can't wait to

1012
00:49:54,316 --> 00:49:57,596
Speaker 1: hear what was the new song called I can't wait

1013
00:49:57,636 --> 00:49:59,956
Speaker 1: to hear Bluebird? Yeah, I can't wait to hear that.

1014
00:50:00,396 --> 00:50:05,076
Speaker 2: Thank you great to meet you nice great.

1015
00:50:08,036 --> 00:50:09,876
Speaker 1: In the episode description, you' find a link to a

1016
00:50:09,916 --> 00:50:13,316
Speaker 1: playlist featuring our favorite songs from FKA Twigs, including her

1017
00:50:13,396 --> 00:50:16,836
Speaker 1: latest album You Sexual Afterglow. Be sure to check out

1018
00:50:16,876 --> 00:50:19,796
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see all

1019
00:50:19,796 --> 00:50:22,396
Speaker 1: of our video interviews, and be sure to follow us

1020
00:50:22,436 --> 00:50:25,196
Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Broken Record pot. You can follow

1021
00:50:25,276 --> 00:50:28,276
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced

1022
00:50:28,276 --> 00:50:30,596
Speaker 1: and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric

1023
00:50:30,676 --> 00:50:34,836
Speaker 1: Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken

1024
00:50:34,876 --> 00:50:37,516
Speaker 1: Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this

1025
00:50:37,596 --> 00:50:40,956
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1026
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Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

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1029
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Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and

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1031
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Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.