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Speaker 1: If this is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.

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Speaker 2: Listening to podcast, you can't predict anything presented by First

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Speaker 2: Light creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers

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Speaker 2: to technical outerwear.

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Speaker 3: For every hunt, first Light go farther, stay longer. Everybody.

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Speaker 1: You might be listening and thinking that it sounds a

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Speaker 1: teensy well, you probably had enough time to determine this,

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Speaker 1: but by now you're picking up that it sounds a

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Speaker 1: teensy bit different than normal because we're not in our

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Speaker 1: normal studio and we're not with our normal stuff.

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Speaker 3: We're in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't that doesn't matter so much as we're in

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Speaker 1: someone's kitchen recording with best selling author Scott Carney. How's

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Speaker 1: it going, Scott damn Man, Nice to see you again.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The reason we're here it is we're out on we've

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Speaker 1: been out on a book tour and I'm here with

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Speaker 1: Brody and we've been going around, uh, promoting the new

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Speaker 1: book Catch Crayfish, count Stars and bouncing around from city

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Speaker 1: to city as they're working on stuff and doing events

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Speaker 1: in collaboration with Shields, who's been phenomenal group of people

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Speaker 1: to work with. As we've gone from city to city,

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Speaker 1: the main thing we've talked about I've become a student

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Speaker 1: of this is, Uh, anytime you're in like a large

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Speaker 1: city by a airport, the ambulance chaser lawyers, they're billboards.

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Speaker 4: Frank Azar here in Denver.

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Speaker 1: We saw one the other day. It's the lawyer on

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Speaker 1: the billboard holding a sledgehammer.

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Speaker 3: There's one called jungle law.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: There's one where the lawyer is on a Harley.

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Speaker 1: And I think the thinking is that people are like,

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Speaker 1: what do I think of When I think of a

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Speaker 1: tough person, I think of a biker. So when I

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Speaker 1: think of a tough lawyer, it'll be a lawyer on

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Speaker 1: a bike. There's a put the woomack on him as

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Speaker 1: a law as a lawyer slogan.

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Speaker 3: So we've been checking out, uh, checking out that a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch. Also.

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Speaker 1: Uh, it was funny going around cause we did a

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Speaker 1: show and or did a book signing in Texas where

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Speaker 1: we signed and all the events we've gone to. I

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Speaker 1: signed two guns in Texas where you just wait in

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Speaker 1: line with your gun. It's so funny. A dude comes

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Speaker 1: out to me too and he got. A dude comes

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Speaker 1: out to me and he's showed me a turkey he killed.

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Speaker 1: So this guy comes up with his wife's like ten

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Speaker 1: feet away. His wife's ten feet behind him, so like

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Speaker 1: waiting for him to like obviously ready to leave.

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Speaker 3: And he's shown me a picture he killed.

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Speaker 1: A wild turkey that had four spurs.

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Speaker 3: So I had two spurs on each leg.

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Speaker 1: So I said, I hope you saved it, and he said, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: I got a full mount. And I says, his wife's

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Speaker 1: like ten feet away and she looks at me and

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Speaker 1: goes full mount. It so funny, man, A quick follow

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Speaker 1: up on something. Where's this thing we're gonna talk about.

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna talk about too much.

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Speaker 3: We're gon we're gonna get in it.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about This might not be a like totally

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Speaker 1: normally show, but so so turn it off unless you

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Speaker 1: might hear about something super interesting. This is the interesting part.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get to that. We're gonna get something super

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Speaker 1: interesting in a minute. But we covered, meaning, talked about,

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Speaker 1: laughed about this. The latest Yellowstone National Park scandal where

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Speaker 1: a gentleman gentleman or a gentleman he okay, so a

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Speaker 1: bunch of buffalo go across the river. I came in

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Speaker 1: with the hell river. Do you remember what river? A

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Speaker 1: bunch of bikes across the river sounds like they became

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Speaker 1: of a joke, and and a calf doesn't join him. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's too chicken ship to swim the river. So this

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Speaker 1: gentleman goes down and they just take off is leave

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Speaker 1: it sitting on the bank of the river.

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Speaker 3: This guy goes down and he.

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Speaker 1: Like for whatever reason, kind of grabs it and scurries

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Speaker 1: it up to the road, thinking he's gonna save it.

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Speaker 3: So he gets in.

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Speaker 1: All kind of trouble and find for all this, and

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Speaker 1: then it becomes in the news. How since he touched it,

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Speaker 1: they it was abandoned by its mother.

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Speaker 3: Wait what so he got his human smell on it,

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Speaker 3: and now.

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Speaker 1: He's caused it and had to be euthanized and the

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Speaker 1: blood is on his hands.

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Speaker 3: Okay. A couple of people wrote into this. A person

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Speaker 3: that raises.

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Speaker 1: A person that raises bison wrote in to say, this

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Speaker 1: is the stupidest thing he's ever heard. Basically, they handle

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Speaker 1: them cabs all the time, and the mothers are fine

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Speaker 1: to pick them back up. But most convincingly, Jim Heffelfinger,

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Speaker 1: our resident biologist from Arizona State Fishing Game Agency. He's

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Speaker 1: been on the show a number of times. Rights in

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Speaker 1: he heard this story too. He says, I heard this story,

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Speaker 1: but this is the first I heard the NPS say

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Speaker 1: it was because someone touched it. Total bullshit, he says,

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Speaker 1: if that was true, Kevin Monteeth, Randall Kaufman, Randy Larson,

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Speaker 1: Brock McCollen, And he's naming all these researchers who do

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Speaker 1: a lot of studies by putting GPS collars on ungulates.

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Speaker 1: Goes say, they handle ungulate calves all the time. They

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Speaker 1: tranquilize them, catch them, handle them, put collars on them.

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Speaker 1: They stand back up and go right back to their mother,

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Speaker 1: he said. Had He goes on to point out that

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Speaker 1: if this was true, none of their research would be

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Speaker 1: of any value because they would all be abandoned, when

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Speaker 1: in fact, they're not abandoned. He's all for getting people

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Speaker 1: to respect wildlife and not pick up bison calves, but

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Speaker 1: come on, you don't need to lie to do it.

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Speaker 3: He had a good joke.

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Speaker 1: The mother simply crossed the river and then looked back

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Speaker 1: at her young male calf that couldn't make it across

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Speaker 1: a strong current and said Bison, huh.

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Speaker 3: Good one tuple fingers. Yeah, he's good. If you made

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Speaker 3: If you made that up, that's good. Another craction from

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Speaker 3: a past show.

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Speaker 1: I Okay, I feel like I'm wrong anytime I see

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Speaker 1: that someone has like a math formula to crack to me,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe I was wrong, But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe his math is wrong, he said. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: point out an inaccuracy in me Eater podcast four four four,

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Speaker 1: where a pair of ink and mummies are described as

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Speaker 1: having been freeze dried in the same sense as a

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Speaker 1: freeze dried meal, meaning that they were frozen solid in

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Speaker 1: an environment where the pressure was low enough for sublimation

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Speaker 1: phase change from solid directory to vapor. He goes on

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Speaker 1: to say, these mummies were found at twenty thousand feet,

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Speaker 1: where the atmospheric pressure is about forty one.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what kPa is, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Atmospheric pressure is about forty percent of sea level, the

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Speaker 1: triple point for water see attached phase diagram that intimidates

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Speaker 1: the shit out of me too. I didn't even look

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Speaker 1: at that phase diagram. The point where the pressure is

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Speaker 1: low enough for sublimation to occur is roughly a sixty

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Speaker 1: seven times higher vacuum than the atmosphere where the mummies

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Speaker 1: were found. Therefore, he goes on to say, that's not

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Speaker 1: what happened. They were not sublimating that. I was equating

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Speaker 1: it to your freeze dry meal that you eat when

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Speaker 1: you're backpacking.

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Speaker 5: Um.

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Speaker 1: He's like other sources have attributed the preservation of these

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Speaker 1: mummies to the extreme cold and dry air. He says, also,

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Speaker 1: I believe that they were not entirely desiccated. But he

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Speaker 1: does goes on to point this out. Here's a quote.

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Speaker 1: The mummies were an exceptional condition when found. Reinhardt said

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Speaker 1: that the mummies appear to be the best preserved Inca

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Speaker 1: mummies ever found. For context, I went to see one

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Speaker 1: of these mummies in Salta, Argentina, also saying that the

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Speaker 1: arms were perfectly preserved, even down to the individual hairs,

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Speaker 1: The internal organs were still intact, and one of the

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Speaker 1: hearts still contained frozen blood. Because the mummies froze before

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Speaker 1: dehydration could occur, the desiccation and shriveling of the organs

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Speaker 1: that is typical of exposed human remains never took place.

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Speaker 3: He ends an undercomment, Well.

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Speaker 6: A little educational b bit.

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Speaker 5: The kPa is a kilo uh, pardon me, a kilo pascal,

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Speaker 5: which is a unit of pressure, and it's used basically

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Speaker 5: in countries where the metric system is followed, so it

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Speaker 5: replaces pounds per square inch.

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Speaker 3: Oh got it, Steeve.

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Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, just hearing you you say

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Speaker 4: this now, I feel like you should have gotten that

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Speaker 4: right the first time.

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Speaker 3: It's not so simple as it's embarrassing. No, he's a

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Speaker 3: nice guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he's a nice guy, he says, thanks for

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Speaker 1: all the great content, John, Thank you.

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Speaker 3: John.

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Speaker 1: All right, So Scott, let's walk through the I want

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Speaker 1: to touch on the books you'd done, because the books

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Speaker 1: you've done have a big bearing on what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk today.

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Speaker 3: So want me through your titles. You did went on

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Speaker 3: organ trafficking. M hmmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I was called the red Market on the trail of

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Speaker 4: the world's organ brokers, bone thieves, blood farmers, and child traffickers.

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Speaker 4: I invented clickbait.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 4: Maybe not, but yeah, so I you know, I spent

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Speaker 4: six years wandering around the world looking for uh, you know,

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Speaker 4: interviewing people involved in buying and selling him and body parts,

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Speaker 4: not mummy body parts, but like you know, kidneys, bones, hair,

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Speaker 4: surrogate wombs. I was tracking down kidnapped children from India

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Speaker 4: to the United States and that's sort of the where

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Speaker 4: I made.

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Speaker 1: My bones as a journalist. So that was my first book. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know that, I don't know if I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's is it ever true? Like you know, like the

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Speaker 1: myth of like that you wake up in a hotel

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Speaker 1: room and a total bullshit, your kidney's gone, that never missed.

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Speaker 3: Start with one of those guys.

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Speaker 4: No, what usually happens, like the law of organ trafficking,

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Speaker 4: is that you find like a world class medical institution

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Speaker 4: located next to abject poverty, and you and organ brokers

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Speaker 4: appear out of the ether to harvest organs. You know,

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Speaker 4: usually with payments. It's way easier to pay someone like

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Speaker 4: fifty bucks or five hundred bucks for a kidney than

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Speaker 4: it is to kidnap them and cause a police case.

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Speaker 1: But what I do, so you're saying, so this is people.

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Speaker 1: When you were focused on this, you were looking at

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Speaker 1: people who.

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Speaker 3: Were buying.

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Speaker 1: Sort of like illicitly buying organs for people waiting for transplants.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of them, but I was also looking

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Speaker 4: at you know, so for for kidneys. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 4: looking at the organ brokers, so the criminal side of that.

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Speaker 4: I was interviewing the criminals and I was interviewing the victims.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we had like national geographic cameras come

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Speaker 4: in and get like eighty women all line up, where

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Speaker 4: every woman in a village had sold their kidneys to

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Speaker 4: the hospitals. And these would go mostly to the domestic

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Speaker 4: markets in India, but also abroad as.

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Speaker 3: Well, So this was most common in witch countries.

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Speaker 4: Oh, it's all over the place. I mean I focused

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Speaker 4: primarily in India, but if you're talking about kidneys, you're

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Speaker 4: talking in the Philippines, India, Egypt, Brazil, a little bit

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Speaker 4: of Mexico, South Africa, Indonesia. I mean, it's a giant trade.

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Speaker 4: And what I was trying to understand was not only

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Speaker 4: how the illegal market works, but the patterns in all

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Speaker 4: the organs, in all the body parts that are sold.

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Speaker 4: And I was also looking at blood and how people

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Speaker 4: have their blood like this was messed up. I went

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Speaker 4: onto the border of India Nepal where there's a blood shortage,

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Speaker 4: and I met this guy who used to be a

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Speaker 4: dairy farmer who would go to the bus station find

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Speaker 4: someone who was like addicted to heroin or something like

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Speaker 4: that offered them like a thousand rupees fifteen hundred rupees.

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Speaker 4: It's about thirty bucks for a pint of blood. But

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Speaker 4: he drained four pints of blood, so they were minially conscious.

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Speaker 4: And he kept him there for six months, eight months

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Speaker 4: at a time until they died or were about to die.

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Speaker 3: Only like harvesting now.

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Speaker 4: Seriously seriously, like it was. It's a I mean, the

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Speaker 4: rule of organ trafficking is once you start thinking about

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Speaker 4: the body as a commodity, like it's the same rules

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Speaker 4: as Nike shoes. At the end of the rules, well,

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Speaker 4: you know it's going to be you try to buy

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Speaker 4: low and sell high and you minimize your risk. And

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Speaker 4: you know, the more you think about body parts as

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Speaker 4: just things, the more you treat them like things.

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Speaker 3: M okay, then your next one.

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Speaker 1: That you know the problem with that is that makes

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Speaker 1: me not want to read that book because because I

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Speaker 1: feel like, like if someone tells me that they like,

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Speaker 1: if you told me right now, I've thought what was before,

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Speaker 1: but if you told me right now that your kidney

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Speaker 1: was failing, I would think my kidney was failing, my

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Speaker 1: kidney would start to hurt me. Oh man, So that

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Speaker 1: like when someone's like, I got poison IVY, I instantly.

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Speaker 7: Is sympathetic sympathetic disease.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like if you said, man, I got a bad

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Speaker 1: poison ivy case, my waistline would start to it. Yeah right,

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Speaker 1: I'd like reading that book made my kidney ache.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the nocebo effect. And I write about that

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Speaker 4: in my book The Wedge. But yeah, my second book

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Speaker 4: was called The Enlightenment Trap. And that's in a way

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Speaker 4: how this conversation sure and Els is starting. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: where you know, I was investigating these Charlottean gurus around

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Speaker 4: the world, and I was looking in particular about Tibetan

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Speaker 4: Buddhism and like Americans who go to India and Tibetan

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Speaker 4: come back in red robes, and the sort of insanity

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Speaker 4: that occurs when someone declares themselves as enlightened. And i'd

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Speaker 4: seen you know, the book start.

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Speaker 1: So you're in there, you're focused on sort of like

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Speaker 1: enlightenment as something specific, Yeah, as.

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Speaker 4: Like attaining a final state.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it'd be the same in pursuit of

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Speaker 1: us of a I don't want to call it like

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Speaker 1: a confined to a particular religious perspective, But you mean,

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Speaker 1: like like enlightened in the definition that would be of

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Speaker 1: Eastern religious thought or Eastern spiritual thought.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, for sure, specifically I'm talking about people

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Speaker 4: who see themselves as a Tibetan Buddhist bodhisatta, right.

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Speaker 3: But the.

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Speaker 4: I mean it applies to anyone like it applies like

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Speaker 4: if you're talking to God, I'm thinking that there's some

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Speaker 4: sort of more mental problem here. Then I'm seeing God

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Speaker 4: actually talking to and if he is talking to I

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Speaker 4: want to see some really good proof I want to see. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And then this is what the Tibetans would talk about.

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Speaker 4: They'd say, look, if you think you're enlightened, you go

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Speaker 4: up to the top of the temple. And they say

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Speaker 4: this all the time. It's really funny. Go up to

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Speaker 4: the top of the time. I want you to see

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Speaker 4: you pee off the top of the temple, and before

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Speaker 4: the urine hits the ground, I want you to suck

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Speaker 4: that urine backup into Urethra as proof that you are enlightened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: This is a test that they tried many times in

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Speaker 4: ti Bet. Because you want to prove if you're if

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Speaker 4: you're actually that's that's that's I specifically talk about that

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Speaker 4: particular miracle on two different occasions.

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Speaker 3: Here has pulled it off.

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Speaker 4: Well they say they have, but you know, the sources

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Speaker 4: are all medieval and there was no cameras. But you know,

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Speaker 4: here's the thing, like when you get enlightened and there's

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Speaker 4: and I think this is particularly relevant to what we're

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Speaker 4: gonna talk.

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Speaker 3: Like we felt that word around big time.

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Speaker 1: Now yeah, yeah, right, but not even I know what

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Speaker 1: we mean when we say it. Well, the words i'd say,

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Speaker 1: like I was enlightened, I switched to fry my fish and.

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Speaker 4: Port I like that version of enlightenment. Actually that's my

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Speaker 4: I can relate to that. But you know i'd seen

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Speaker 4: so I had a student, so I was you know,

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of my career, I was getting my

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Speaker 4: PhD anthropology and I dropped out right at the dissertation.

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Speaker 4: I was leading these abroad programs around North India and

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Speaker 4: on a seven day silent meditation retreat, my best and

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Speaker 4: brightest student, woman named Emily O'Connor. You know, she was

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Speaker 4: like this type aid super driven personality. But we're silent,

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Speaker 4: you know, in meditation. You're meditating on like in this tradition,

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Speaker 4: we're trying to find silence in ourselves and bliss and

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Speaker 4: nirvana and all these good things that you can think of,

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Speaker 4: and also our own deaths, because it's a big thing

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Speaker 4: you do, you meditate on death. Last day of silent

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Speaker 4: Meditation retreat, she climbs up to the roof of the

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Speaker 4: retreat center and jumps off to her death, taking her

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Speaker 4: own life. And I'm I'm like a twenty seven year

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Speaker 4: old kid at this point, and I'm tasked with recovering

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Speaker 4: her body and figuring out why she killed herself. And

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Speaker 4: her journal, her journal, the you know, I reprint a

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Speaker 4: lot of it in that book, but essentially it says

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Speaker 4: the last words or I am a bodhisatva, meaning that

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Speaker 4: she had, in the course of that meditation retreat, learned

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Speaker 4: all of the sacred teachings, knew everything about this, and all.

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Speaker 3: She had to do was all her body.

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Speaker 4: Well it was suicide.

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Speaker 3: I mean she didn't think that, but no, okay, but.

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Speaker 1: She knew that she was going to have physical death,

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Speaker 1: or she thought that she was going to pull a trick.

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Speaker 3: Like pulling your urine back up. No, no, she knew

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Speaker 3: she was getting physical death.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean one of the lines in the

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Speaker 4: book in her journal was, you know, I know there's

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Speaker 4: gonna be a lot of pain, uh, and you know

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Speaker 4: we have to go through it. So, you know, the

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Speaker 4: conception of death was maybe a little different because she

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Speaker 4: thought she would become essentially a Tibetan Buddhist angel.

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Speaker 1: I thought, you meant like when you know how someone

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Speaker 1: might you know, there's been cases where someone's on like

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Speaker 1: LSD and they jump off a cliffs.

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Speaker 3: They think that something else is going to happen, other

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Speaker 3: than what you'd think was going to happen.

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Speaker 4: No, I you know, she she knew what was She

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Speaker 4: knew what this was for. And I think what it

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Speaker 4: was when you're meditating, when you're taking on a new

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Speaker 4: spiritual practice, there's this law of you know, so we

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Speaker 4: call it the law of diminishing returns, but it's also

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Speaker 4: the law of speedy gains, right. It's the idea that

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Speaker 4: you start meditating and and everything starts getting better. You know,

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Speaker 4: you start feeling these really positive changes and and it

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Speaker 4: can feel very enticing. Time speeds up, it slows down

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Speaker 4: the quality of the light changes, You have these realizations

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Speaker 4: about how your mind works and you want to grab

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Speaker 4: onto that and you don't want to let it go.

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Speaker 4: And I think at that point she saw death as

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Speaker 4: a way of holding onto it because she knew that

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Speaker 4: those even those realizations were starting to slip from her fingers.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 4: And then well, and then you know, then she jumped

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Speaker 4: off the roof of the retreat center and died. And

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Speaker 4: that that sent my life on spinning on an entirely

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Speaker 4: different trajectory. I mean, you know, we talked about my

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Speaker 4: book on organ trafficking that originated out of this moment

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Speaker 4: because I had spent six days with her body one

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Speaker 4: hundred and six degree heat trying to preserve it, and

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Speaker 4: we had to bring it back to the States, and

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Speaker 4: I was suddenly looking at a body as responsibility. I

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Speaker 4: was the director of the program, let's see. Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: I spoke Hindy and I, you know, I could actually

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Speaker 4: navigate the police system that no and no one And

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Speaker 4: we had two other director there, but I was the guy.

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Speaker 7: Did law enforcement or the state department or anything like

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Speaker 7: that get involved.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I was dealing with the cops continually.

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Speaker 4: Uh and uh, you know, I initially they thought it

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Speaker 4: was a murder because the extent of her injuries, and

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Speaker 4: they asked me if there was an enemies and it

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Speaker 4: could have gone really, really bad, but the the journal

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Speaker 4: pretty much showed what her mental state was.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, uh, how old are you? And I haven't

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Speaker 1: I was about twenty seven years old. I think when

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Speaker 1: you did that book, was it did you start? Do

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Speaker 1: you think looking back on it now?

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Speaker 3: Was it was it like a like a form of therapy?

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean, was it like a thing stuck

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Speaker 1: in your head and you wanted to start writing about it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I mean it's the theme that connects all my books, right,

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Speaker 4: and I actually recount that story. I think it appears

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Speaker 4: in four of my books, and like, you know, diminishing

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Speaker 4: ways as I go. But uh, yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 4: was dealing with two questions right at first. I wanted

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Speaker 4: to know about the material nature of the body. How

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Speaker 4: we certainly turned flesh into commerce, because you know, they

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Speaker 4: were taking pieces of her brain and liver and stuff

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Speaker 4: and send it all over for various tests and things.

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Speaker 4: And I wanted to think about that question of like,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's a body and it's special, it's alive.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, is there a soul and I don't know,

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Speaker 4: but like then then it becomes property of the state,

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Speaker 4: and there's and and things alter. And so that was

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Speaker 4: the book The Red Market, like it was all coming

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Speaker 4: out of that event. But here's the other question that's

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Speaker 4: going on my mind, like was she enlightened? Like what

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Speaker 4: was going on? Is there a connection between spiritual attainment

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Speaker 4: and madness? This is what I wanted to know, and

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Speaker 4: I you know, I spent about another six eight months

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Speaker 4: interviewing lamas, you know, these sort of Tibetan Buddhist monks

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Speaker 4: and you know, the Dialama's teacher and oracles, all sorts

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Speaker 4: of things. I'm trying to figure out what was she enlightened?

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Speaker 4: And then the consensus is no. But it that led

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Speaker 4: me down this thing. Look, okay, what is it about

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Speaker 4: intensive spiritual seeking that can drive you mad? And I

415
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Speaker 4: wasn't interested as much as the depression. You know, your

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00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 4: first hypothe is was she'd like suicide asn't depressed, But

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Speaker 4: I want to know what is the thing where a

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Speaker 4: positive can make you do something that's incredibly dangerous and bad. Uh.

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Speaker 4: And And that that leads into this book The Enlightenment Trap,

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Speaker 4: where I look at her case but also cases of

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Speaker 4: people who go to India and just go crazy, something

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Speaker 4: called India syndrome where they believe they're Krishna or they

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Speaker 4: believe they're Shiva. And about one hundred Westerners a year

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Speaker 4: end up in mental asylums in India and you have

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Speaker 4: to get sent home.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when I look at a lot of

427
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Speaker 1: that stuff, people that are really and we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into this and we get into the whim Hoff and

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Speaker 1: the yeah, you know, ice frozen water and hyperventilank and

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Speaker 1: all that.

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Speaker 3: I think that curious what you think about this.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's like people that are looking for

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Speaker 1: a fix, so something that's going to go and study.

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Speaker 3: And I'm just picking on Buddhism cause we're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about Yeah, they're they're already fragile and vulnerable. Okay,

436
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Speaker 1: when they hit what they think is enlightenment or whatever truth.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's whatever truth you're getting from spending a bunch

438
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: of time in icy water, whatever the hell you got

439
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: going on. You're already fragile and vulnerable. The euphoria that

440
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: you get when you find a solution, like a new

441
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: diet that you can believe in.

442
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 3: You know, if I only eat ligament, if.

443
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: I only eat, if I only eat vegetables, if I

444
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: only whatever. Right is, you're feeling an alleviation in the

445
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: symptomology of being lost and weak. So you're euphoria. You

446
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: think I'm cured. It's just an alleviation of symptom, but

447
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: you're already terminally You're you're terminally lost, you're terminally weak.

448
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: You get a little break and you think it feels good.

449
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: But that's why so few people are who are vulnerable

450
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: and lost stay fixed for long.

451
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: They're always looking for a like I feel like that.

452
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: You find some people that like, they don't stay fixed.

453
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: They like you're you're a drunk you have a religious epiphany,

454
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, we'll see, Yeah, we'll see, because

455
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: I got a feeling that that you have an alleviation

456
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: of the symptom.

457
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 3: But it's going to creep back on you.

458
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 4: I mean, you're right. I mean, look at how many

459
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 4: chronic alcoholics suddenly find Jesus and then get like drunk

460
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 4: on Jesus.

461
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 3: Right.

462
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 4: I mean that this is a thing. You're describing, something

463
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 4: that I think is out there, sort of the conversion symptomology.

464
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 4: But I will say that's a high rate of recidivism.

465
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 4: I think that is the way you said a high

466
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 4: rate of return. But I do think I wouldn't just

467
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 4: throw all of those infanies under the bus. I mean,

468
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 4: sometimes one of them, a lot of them. Sure, there's

469
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 4: it gonna be a percentage, right, we could, we could,

470
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 4: we could study it like a drug. But sometimes you

471
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 4: need structure, you need control, and taking control of one

472
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 4: thing in your life can generalize out to controlling other

473
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 4: things in your life. Right, Like if you have a

474
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: technique and let's say, let's say was meditation, right, and

475
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 4: meditation gave you a stable point and the technique to

476
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 4: help yourself, and then you did other things too to

477
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 4: help yourself. It can be very beneficial. But if it

478
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 4: becomes the only thing that that that is your solution,

479
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: well then you know, I know, I you know my

480
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 4: book The Wedge, I was somewhat friends with Andrew Huperman,

481
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 4: who's this big you know, podcaster now on Neuroscientist, and

482
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 4: his definition of addiction was really interesting, which was addiction

483
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 4: is the progressive narrowing of the things that give you pleasure.

484
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 4: And if that is what you're doing, then that's a problem.

485
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: And all you're doing is like you're putting a shell

486
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 4: game with your addictions. But if instead you can take

487
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 4: something and it gives you a stable like an anchor,

488
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 4: and then you can do you can like jump fraug

489
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 4: to something else, well, then you can have a beneficial transition.

490
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 4: But it's not like it's a one size fits all

491
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 4: for anyone. Like you got to do the work, and

492
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 4: you've got to realize that the work is not just

493
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 4: like tripling down on what your guru is telling you.

494
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I have I need to develop this more.

495
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 3: I just have a I need to make a name

496
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: for it and build it up better. Uh, I don't know.

497
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: I feel that humans are just from my experience and

498
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: things I've seen that I feel like humans are are

499
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: someone you're kind of cast. Yeah, you know what I mean,

500
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: Like you're thrown from the womb as a as a something,

501
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: and that thing generally winds up being pretty consistent. Yeah,

502
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: I mean, people break it, but it's like they break it,

503
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: but it's it's a little bit nature, the nature nurture thing.

504
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: I think there's like a fund mental tenacity that that

505
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: that a lot of a lot of people have, like

506
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: a fundamental tenacity a fundamental survival mentality, and they kind

507
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: of go on, Yeah, if they hadn't done one thing

508
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: and found success, it would have done some other damn

509
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: thing and found success.

510
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: Or if they had, you know, they.

511
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: Would have found some level of peace or some level

512
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: of contentment.

513
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 3: And you could have put them in any situation they

514
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: probably would have.

515
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 4: It's interesting. So you're kicked out. So you're a Calvinist.

516
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: I guess you're you're you're you're someone who believes that

517
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 4: there is destiny and somehow is your genetics, I guess,

518
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 4: or somewhere else I don't work.

519
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I think you're cast. I shouldn't say

520
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: from the womb. I don't know, from some young age.

521
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. Maybe when you're ten,

522
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: I'll start watching my kids and find out when they

523
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: look when they seem cast.

524
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: Well, my thirteen year old, I feel like he's cast.

525
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So whatever happened to him between genetics and upbringing,

526
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: I feel like now he's like, you know what didn't

527
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: didn't the don't don't the Jews have something like once

528
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: you're old enough to like a buttered bread or something

529
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: like that.

530
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 3: What is it?

531
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 5: I have?

532
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, it doesn't matter what I think. I'm not.

533
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 8: I don't.

534
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,719
Speaker 3: I don't have a bunch of books about this stuff.

535
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: Okay, this is gonna lead us into where this is

536
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: gonna lead us in the where we're going where things

537
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: get really interesting. Then you did a book What Doesn't

538
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: Kill Us right, How freezing water, extreme altitude, and environmental

539
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: conditioning will renew our lost evolutionary strength, which was largely

540
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: about a feller.

541
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 3: Name wim Hoff. That's right.

542
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: So if back of your head you're like, you think

543
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: about wim Hoff. If you're wondering, why have I heard

544
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: that name, I'll explain it. If you haven't heard that name,

545
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: but you're familiar with the recent you know the recent

546
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: trend around ice baths and breathing techniques, that's wim Hoff.

547
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: That's where that's where that's originating from. Okay, so from

548
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: our guests here, this is from Scott's on writing.

549
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: You find this writing on his website, but it's just

550
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: a paragraph here that paints the picture. Okay. Scott says

551
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: his workshops like the.

552
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: Small one I attended, would grow into a loose following,

553
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: meaning this guy does these breathing workshops in ice bath

554
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: or ice and breathing endurance workshops.

555
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 3: Physical Endurance would.

556
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 1: Evolve into an international organization which would explode into what

557
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: some people have called a cult.

558
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: Inner Fire.

559
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: That's the name of the organization run by Hoff's son,

560
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: anam As I supposed to name anem anem owns all

561
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: of the trademarks of wim Hoff's name, as well as

562
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: the property and income of the Hoff Empire, which has

563
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: a declared value of eighteen million. Hoff has routinely taught

564
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: his method to crowds that number in the many thousands,

565
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: sometimes spreading his message of ice and breath work for

566
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars ticket price. His international best selling book,

567
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: The whim Hoff Method has been reprinted in twenty one language.

568
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow's The Goop Lab series on Netflix did a

569
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: full episode on him. The BBC ran a full series.

570
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: His Instagram feed has grown from a few thousand people

571
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: when we met in twenty thirteen to more than three

572
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: million today, with similarly impressive numbers on YouTube two point

573
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: four million followers. There are seventy one videos about Haff

574
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: on YouTube, with more than a million views each in

575
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty six thousand videos. Overall, The video

576
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: giving instructions for his basic breathing method alone has more

577
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: than sixty four million views. A search of the newspaper

578
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: archive of over sixteen thousand publications shows his name has

579
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: appeared on twelve front pages with more than four hundred

580
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: and eighty nine mentions overall. He's also about to get

581
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: the Hollywood treatment. A movie about HAFF starring Joseph Fines

582
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: reportedly began shooting in November twenty twenty two. So that

583
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: guy uh Howe, tell how you.

584
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 3: Became aware of him, because this this is w ends

585
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: up being.

586
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: What you were doing when you became aware of him and.

587
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: What you're doing now is very interesting. Yeah.

588
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 4: So I was the first person to learn about wim Hoff, right,

589
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 4: but first person, No, that's not true. I was the

590
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: first serious journalist to write about wim Hoff. And I

591
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 4: had just written this book, The Enlightenment Trap, and I

592
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 4: was really interested in people who were seeking superpowers, trying

593
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 4: to seek things that were bigger than themselves. And one

594
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 4: superpower which is very well known in the Indian tradition,

595
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 4: which is going on to a mountaintop in a wet

596
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 4: robe and meditating until all that robe is dry and

597
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 4: we're talking to the Himalayas, so it's very cold out

598
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 4: and it was a it's a technique called tumo. But

599
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 4: there's also this other thing called a Sydney. A Sydney

600
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 4: is a miracle. And and wim Hoff was teaching that

601
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 4: he could sit on an iceberg and heat himself up,

602
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: and he could get control his immune system and doing

603
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 4: all these things that were not backed up by science.

604
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 7: Can you can you give the listeners like the thirty

605
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 7: second breakdown on who the guy is?

606
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: Though, yeah, I know, but like, where's how old is.

607
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 4: Like wim Hoff. Wim Hoff is a Dutch fitness guru,

608
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: former like stunt clown man, you know, was known for

609
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 4: like Guinness books of world record feats and.

610
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: The things that had not that he's but okay into

611
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: world record feeds that no one had currently held.

612
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 4: Well, there's a.

613
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: Question hanging from a hot air balloon or something by

614
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: a finger or whatever.

615
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: There's a question about his feets, all right, But at that.

616
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 4: Time, he claimed, you know, some somewhere around twenty to

617
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: twenty six world records.

618
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: Including long like at the time like the longest under

619
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: ice swim, so swimming from one hole in the ice

620
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: to another hole in.

621
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: The ice exactly, the longest under ice swim, also the

622
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 4: longest ice bath. At one point he held that and

623
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: he climbed up a lot of everest in shorts before

624
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 4: he got frostbite. He was when I had met him,

625
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 4: most of the world thought of him as sort of

626
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 4: a clown in a way. You know, he was a

627
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 4: guy who did these like stunt freak things. But he

628
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: was just about to teach this new method, and he

629
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 4: was going to show people his tricks for do for

630
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 4: being in the ice and controlling his mind. And I

631
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 4: was like, I'm going to debunk you as a charlatan

632
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 4: as I had these other people, meaning that.

633
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: He could through the sheer force of his mind, yeah,

634
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: and breathing, HM be like, oh, I'm sitting in ice.

635
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: I should be cold, but I will make my mind

636
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: not just think I'm warm, but warm me up.

637
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 3: More or less.

638
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, well there's more to it than that, but let's

639
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: just go with that for now. And and he could

640
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 4: do these like superhuman seeming feats of endurance, and I

641
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: was like, that's bullshit. I'm gonna go and show the

642
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 4: world you're bullshit. Because there was also like this cachet

643
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 4: to him, like I could feel the cachet. Just looking

644
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 4: at that photo of him sitting like half naked on Iceberg,

645
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 4: I was like, people are gonna love this, and I

646
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 4: want to get ahead of it because you're gonna get

647
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 4: people killed, just like I'd seen other people die doing this.

648
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 4: And but I went out. I went to his training

649
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: center in Poland. I tried his method, because you know,

650
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 4: the way I do journalism is I I you know,

651
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: I get in, I try stuff, and you know, I

652
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 4: give people a fair shot.

653
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 7: Did you go in as a journalist or did you

654
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 7: go in like incognito?

655
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 4: No, no, he knew I was there. I was there

656
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: as a journalist. I talked with him. I'd be like, Hi,

657
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 4: I'm writing for you know, a Playboy, and you know,

658
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 4: actually what was rich with details, the magazine article moved around,

659
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 4: not exciting. Eventually, was for Playboy.

660
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 3: And you didn't go and say like I'm a vulnerable

661
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 3: lost American.

662
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I don't do that. That's I

663
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 4: have like an ethic, Like I don't do that with

664
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 4: organ trafficking either. When i'm track an organ track, I

665
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 4: always tell him I'm a journalist and I get him

666
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 4: to talk because I just I just ask them why

667
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 4: they're doing it, you know, and and and people do talk.

668
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 4: So I went, I tried his method, and here's the

669
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: crazy thing is it worked like it's so you know,

670
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 4: in a in a in like a day, I was

671
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 4: hyperventilating and holding my breath for like two three minutes

672
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 4: at a time, which I'd never done before. I doubled

673
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 4: the number of pushups I could do, and then very soon.

674
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: Well I get the I get the breath hold because

675
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 1: I uh, I've been learning spearfishing and free diving. Okay,

676
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: so but that's not I mean, that's just the thing.

677
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: I mean, anybody could have told you that, Like, there's

678
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: a way you can breathe, Like when you feel the

679
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: need to breathe, you think that you're breathing because you

680
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: think you need oxygen, you're breathing because of a trigger

681
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: from carbon dioxide. And there's a way you can breathe,

682
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: like your fisher called free diver. You breathe up, yeah,

683
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: and then you dive and you get a way longer

684
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: dive than you would if you didn't breathe up properly.

685
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: But you didn't need to go to poland have a

686
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: dude tell you that. But tell me about what made

687
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: you do more push ups.

688
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: So it's the same thing, right, So I'm not I'm

689
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: not a free diver. And when you say breathe up,

690
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 4: I have questions in my mind about what you mean

691
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 4: by that. Are you are you scrubbing? Are you hyperventilating

692
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 4: before you do this? And the way you.

693
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: Want long deep breaths and then like carbon dioxide purge

694
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,479
Speaker 1: breaths and then you but you go down on a big,

695
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: full breath. Yeah, so that's pointing to my kid, I

696
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: sold breathe so deep that you're filling your scrotum with air.

697
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, that's super dangerous, and we're going to get

698
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: into it. It's not we're gonna we're going to get

699
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: into why. We're going to get into why that's super dangerous.

700
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 9: Yeah.

701
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, there's people that have shallow water right, right,

702
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: there's such thing as shallow water blackout, but that is general.

703
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 3: That is generally. I don't care if you're going down

704
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 3: twenty feet on thirty.

705
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: Feet shoot fish, It's just there's a big difference, Yeah,

706
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: between there's a big difference between jumping off a boat,

707
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: swimming over some we're real fast and going down and

708
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: what you're going to get for a breath hold then,

709
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: and what you're going to get if you go somewhere,

710
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: hang grab onto something or float, relax every part of

711
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: your body and do like a breathing sequence and then

712
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: going to It's just different the same way that if

713
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: I told you to run down the road and stop

714
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: and hold your breath, you're not going to do as good.

715
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: If you went in your couch and held your breath.

716
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: You're just not. No, you're right.

717
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 4: So here's here's the problem with shallow water.

718
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 8: So if we're going to talk about the physiology here,

719
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 8: but no, no, no, because you.

720
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: Still want to hear about whim hall.

721
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 4: All right, right, well we'll get into this in a second.

722
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: I have you why do we get on there?

723
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 4: I have some notes, but you asked me.

724
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 3: You started how he got you doing a bunch of

725
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 3: pushing right.

726
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 4: So at the point I could do about twenty push ups.

727
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 4: That was what I could do. And then you hyperventilate.

728
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 4: And when you hyperventilate, you blow off your c of

729
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 4: two and and and your sort of gasping reflex is

730
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: connected to this and when you god, how do I

731
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 4: describe it? When you do this hyper vent when you

732
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 4: hold your breath, the alarm bells for when your fatigue

733
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 4: is hitting sort of turn off, and all of a sudden,

734
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 4: you've unlocked this extra capacity that you that you have

735
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 4: in you. And it's not like my muscles grew bigger.

736
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,959
Speaker 4: It was just I didn't realize that that my where

737
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 4: my limits were, because the hyperventilation changes that chemistry in

738
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 4: the body.

739
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: Even on something like see, I didn't know that, even

740
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: on something like the feeling of I've done too many

741
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: push ups.

742
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yes exactly, or or maybe it's the feeling

743
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 4: of like I have to stop now. If you hyperventilate,

744
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 4: hold your breath, exhale, hold your breath, do your push ups,

745
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 4: you're going to do more than you could normally. But

746
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 4: there are problems with this, and we're going to get

747
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 4: into exactly what the problems are soon. But here's the

748
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: other crazy thing. You know. Then I hiked up this

749
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 4: mountain with whim and you know, and this cold training,

750
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 4: cold exposure we're standing in like you know, Polish winters,

751
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 4: the winter that stops the Nazi army. Like it's cold

752
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 4: and I'm in a bathing suit and brayerfoot and the

753
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 4: first time I do it, it's really painful, really hard.

754
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: Second time I do it's way easier. Third time I

755
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 4: do it like this is fine. And eventually I climb

756
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 4: up a mountain with whim and this and a shirtless

757
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 4: of course, and it's I think I think it's two

758
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 4: degrees fahrenheit out. It takes about seven hours to get

759
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 4: to the top of this mountain. And I'm fine. I'm

760
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: totally fine. And I was shocked because I came to

761
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 4: do the story about why the guy was getting to

762
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 4: get people killed with his methods, and instead his methods

763
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 4: are working, and it changes my life immediately.

764
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: You become like his disciple.

765
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: I'm like his chief disciple. I wrote What Doesn't Kill

766
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 4: Us that becomes the New York Times bestseller. I hicke

767
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 4: gop Mount Kilimanjaro with him, and we get down a

768
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 4: negative thirty We do it in a very fast time,

769
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 4: twenty eight hours to the top shirtless again. And this

770
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: book goes everywhere, and mean I sell two hundred fifty

771
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 4: thousand copies of it. It's a you know. And the

772
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 4: other amazing thing about the wim Hoff method, it's not

773
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 4: just these feats. In fact, the feats are just sort

774
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: of like a great way to market a cool technique

775
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 4: that the real benefits is actually autoimmune helps and anxiety help,

776
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 4: where there's like he's one of the only one of

777
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 4: these fitness Gurui people who frequently goes into labs and

778
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 4: get studied, and he was able to show that he

779
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,959
Speaker 4: was able to turn off his immune system in a laboratory,

780
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 4: which you would think, well, why would I want to

781
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 4: do that? Well, if you have an autoimmune illness such

782
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 4: as lupez Crohn's arthritis, something where your own immune system

783
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 4: is attacking yourself, it's really really beneficial to turn off

784
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 4: your immune.

785
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: How how does one prove in a lab that your

786
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: immune system is turned off?

787
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the way you do it is it's called

788
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 4: the dtoxin experiment, done at Radbound University in Holland, and

789
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 4: so he trained two groups of people. One was the

790
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 4: control group they didn't do much, and one was the

791
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 4: people who did exactly what I did in Poland, which

792
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 4: was hang out with whim, breathe a lot, hang out,

793
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 4: climb up a mountain in your bathing suit, you know,

794
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: learn his method. And then they took him to a

795
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: lab and the person who designed the experience, the same

796
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 4: person who designed the test to see anti rejection drugs.

797
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: So if you get a kidney treating a transplant, right,

798
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 4: if you get that kidney transplant and you don't take

799
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 4: any drugs, your immune system would be like, fuck that kidney,

800
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 4: I AM going to eat it and destroy it, and

801
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 4: then you get the organ rejection.

802
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: So the way what you have to do is you

803
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 3: have to take.

804
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 4: Immune suppressant drugs to turn off your immune response. And

805
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 4: so he designed the test for those immunosuppressant drugs. And

806
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 4: the test is you inject somebody with endotoxin, which is

807
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 4: basically E. Coli bacteria that has been killed in a

808
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 4: lab by heat, so that when it injects into your bloodstream,

809
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 4: you have a primary immune response, which is so the

810
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 4: equalized dead so it's not going to do anything, but

811
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 4: your immune system recognize the cytokinde, so the chemicals on

812
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 4: the walls, and it says this is a foreign invader,

813
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:20,959
Speaker 4: and you immediately get your.

814
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 3: Fever, your aches, your chills.

815
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 4: These are all your like your primary basic immune response

816
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 4: that you just use generally for anything. Now, the test

817
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 4: was if you inject with endotoxin and you don't get

818
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 4: those symptoms, that means you turned your immune system off,

819
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 4: and that's what happened both Whim did this in a

820
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 4: single test on his own and then in a lab

821
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 4: they all of these college students, they didn't have any

822
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: serious reactions to the endotoxin, showing that they had turned

823
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 4: off their immune system.

824
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 3: And they did this by breathing in a particular way.

825
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's an interesting combination. It's it's it's the

826
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 4: breath work, it's the cold exposure and learning in those environments.

827
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 4: And this is what I call the wedge, and I

828
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 4: wrote another book about called the wedge.

829
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 3: Right.

830
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 4: What it is is you get into these environments and

831
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 4: there's this external stress coming at you, whether it's cold

832
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 4: water or that feeling of I have to breathe in

833
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 4: the hyperventilation. And what you're doing is you're teaching yourself

834
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: to calm yourself in that environment. Either the internal hypoxic

835
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: which means low oxygen environment or the external cold water

836
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: is telling you you have to fight or flight right now.

837
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 4: But instead you're going to say, no, I can chill here,

838
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 4: I can relax, and I can find some other way

839
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 4: to heat my body. And that is what has the

840
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,720
Speaker 4: audioimmune benefit. It's not this, it's not all the other flash.

841
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 4: It's just a really good technique and an easy technique

842
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 4: to learn to have that mental resilience. And this is

843
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 4: what you were saying earlier, you know when I called

844
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 4: you a calvinist. Now, people are born some way and

845
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 4: they can't change. Well, this is one of these beachhead

846
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 4: techniques that I really believe in. I'm born certain way, yeah,

847
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 4: I ten, they become a certain way. And but this

848
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 4: is one of those things. It's like a beachhead like you.

849
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 4: You start doing these these sorts of things, and honestly,

850
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 4: it doesn't need to be ice water and breathing. Yeah,

851
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 4: it can be a lot of other strong stimuli that

852
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,959
Speaker 4: make you want to fight or flight. And you say,

853
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 4: you clicking over into that other rest and digest.

854
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 3: But here's where I don't want to do. There's so

855
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: much ground, we gotta.

856
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 4: Cover so much.

857
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: But I want to ask qu a question here.

858
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: The thing about a difference I see with cold water

859
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: is you're you're aware, Yeah, okay, you're aware.

860
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 3: Of your bodies. You're aware of what your body's telling you. Right,

861
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 3: It's like get out of the damn water. Yeah, okay,

862
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 3: whatever whatever's going on.

863
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: You're extremely fatigued, you're like, Okay, I'm feeling the extreme fatigue.

864
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do mind over matter whatever. I'm gonna come

865
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: up the other side. Uh, your immune system is not

866
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: consulting with you. You're not thinking I need to attack this,

867
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: I need to attack this bacteria, I need.

868
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 3: To attack this virus. I'm going to tell myself not

869
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: to do it.

870
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 4: Well, I think you might be a misunderstanding. When you're sick,

871
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 4: you're not supposed to jump into ice water, right. It

872
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 4: is this trick that you use to calm yourself, and

873
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 4: it is a generalizable effect. I wouldn't if you have

874
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: a flu ice waar ain't gonna help you. It's going

875
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 4: to make you sicker, for sure. But training regularly in

876
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 4: ice water, when you're healthy and you're not fatigued, you're

877
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 4: not messed up, you're not expending extra energy. You actually

878
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 4: are talking with your immune system because your immune system

879
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 4: is connected in your body. You know, when you're when

880
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 4: you're climbing up Mount Kilimanjaro in your bathing suit, your

881
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 4: immune systems walking up there with you. And if you're

882
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 4: dumping adrenaline and cortisol and all that into your blood

883
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 4: stream through your hormonal channels, your immune system is also

884
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 4: doing that. And like the the if you think about

885
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 4: what a you can just look at this in a lab.

886
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 4: You take a macrophase, which is a big immune cell

887
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 4: of the front line immune cell, and you dump adrenaline

888
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 4: on it. It's a little flagella are gonna go everywhere.

889
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 4: It's gonna go crazy, and if you don't, it's gonna

890
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 4: be chill. And the way I like to think about this,

891
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 4: the metaphor that I use is if you think that

892
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 4: your immune system is a pack of wolves, right, it's

893
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 4: going out there, it's trying to eat all the bad stuff.

894
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 4: Then what this method is is like giving those wolves

895
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 4: chew toys, so that we have this huge epidemic of

896
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 4: autoimmune illnesses in the in the world. And it's where

897
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 4: it's it's where your immune system literally attacks.

898
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: The stuff it's not supposed to.

899
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 4: If those wolves are bored and if you hop up

900
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 4: your wolves on adrenaline or you know wolf PCP, you

901
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 4: know those wolves are gonna chew things they're not supposed to.

902
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 4: So what this does from an evolutionary perspective, and we

903
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 4: could you know, I've done three hundred podcasts on this.

904
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 4: We can do that that podcast.

905
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 3: No, I don't want to.

906
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know we could. Like what it's doing

907
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 4: is it's sort of training your immune sism not to

908
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 4: freak out. And and you know, you know, I would

909
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: think that your audience gets out of nature more than

910
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 4: the average audience. I'm just going to go out on

911
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 4: a limb here. Well, a lot of people don't. A

912
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 4: lot of people stay in static environments all the time.

913
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 4: And that static environment is you know, it narrows the

914
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 4: range and where people can be comfortable. You know, if

915
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 4: you're going out. You know, right now we're in my

916
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 4: comfortable house in Denver, but you know, you also dragged

917
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 4: a buffalo out of Alaska. You have range, and that

918
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 4: probably has an immune benefit in addition to the other

919
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 4: benefits that comes with you. It probably also has an

920
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 4: a you know, you find that you go out of

921
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: nature you feel good. Well, that has a psychological benefit,

922
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: immune benefit. It connects you with nature. It's all part

923
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 4: of it. And the whim Hoff method is one way

924
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 4: into that stuff. Uh And I frankly a pretty good

925
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 4: way because it's pretty efficient, especially for someone who you know,

926
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 4: when you have that strong stem as you jumping into

927
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 4: ice water, your brain's going to pay attention, like you

928
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 4: don't get into ice water and you start thinking about

929
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 4: what should I how should I manage my taxes this year?

930
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 4: I think that maybe I should take a deduction, maybe

931
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 4: the standard deductions. You're not thinking that shit, right, You

932
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 4: are thinking, I am in ice water, and I'm either

933
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 4: going to levitate out of that ice water and get

934
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 4: out of here. You can't levitate, or you're going to

935
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 4: relax into it and you're gonna and you're gonna find

936
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 4: that the people who have the ability to stay in

937
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 4: that stressful, automatic, stressful environment are the ones who can relax.

938
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 4: And you know, I've done a lot of ice feeds. Now,

939
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 4: I've done like half an hour and thirty to thirty

940
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 4: two degree water and I lived right. But you know,

941
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 4: if you think about what most people would think that's insane. Yeah,

942
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 4: And I think find that as like this is something

943
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 4: that's really good and it's actually a type of meditation.

944
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 4: You know, you think about meditation as a you know,

945
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 4: some one sitting on a mat in a Buddhist temple

946
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 4: and like lotus position. But this is another way to

947
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 4: force your mind into a place where it has to

948
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 4: think in a totally different way.

949
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: Uh, where were you. Brody's asking you like, lay out

950
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: the basic So you went there and you became an acolyte.

951
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 3: Is that the right word? Yeah?

952
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one.

953
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 3: Wrote a lot about them. Yep.

954
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 1: Now I want to return to because we're gonna start

955
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: getting into what we're getting into now, Uh you go,

956
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read another passage.

957
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: There are some things that you found when you were

958
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: writing about him. There were some things you.

959
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: Found that you included in your book and then decided

960
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: to not put in the book.

961
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I share one of those.

962
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 4: No, please do.

963
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: Okay, And then I want to talk about why you

964
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: didn't include this. So this is again reading from our

965
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 1: guest work. One story begins in two thousand and eight,

966
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: when Hoff had not seen his children in almost ten years.

967
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: That decade had been rough on the family. Hoff's wife, Oleah,

968
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: Is that right? Elia Oliah committed suicide by jumping from

969
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,959
Speaker 1: an eight floor balcony in Pamplona in nineteen ninety five

970
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: after a long struggle with many mental illness, leaving him

971
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 1: to raise four children on his own. After his wife's death,

972
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: he began a relationship with a woman in another city

973
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: and left his kids to live alone. In a squat

974
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: house in Amsterdam. The eldest Annam is that right Anem.

975
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: Anem was only fifteen years old when he became the

976
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: family's surrogate dad. Eventually, Haff's relationship with the woman ended

977
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: and he found himself with what monetary symbol is at that?

978
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 5: You're a.

979
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: Thirty thousand year tax debt. That seemed to be the

980
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: impetus to reconnect with his family. Hoff asked his second son, Michael,

981
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: to meet him, and they set it time to vous

982
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: at Vandel Park in Amsterdam. Haff arrived early and went

983
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: for a swim in the park's pond. While he was waiting,

984
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: he paddled out to a fountain and positioned himself over

985
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,959
Speaker 1: the spout to give himself an enema that he thought

986
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: would cleanse all of his intestines or, as he often

987
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: likes to say, get the shit out. On a recording

988
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: of one of our conversations in twenty thirteen, Hawf recounts

989
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: that he had done that He had done the park

990
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: fountain enema at least a hundred times before, but that,

991
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to him, the park service had changed the spigot

992
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: on the fountain to create a more impressive spray.

993
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 3: The narrower gage sent water.

994
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: Cutting through his intestines like a knife, filling his bowels

995
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: of dirty water. He managed to make it back to

996
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: shore while blood and feces leaked from his rectum. Hoff's

997
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: first words to his son in a decade or that

998
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: he needed to go to a hospital.

999
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 3: Why would you? Why would you in writing about.

1000
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: A health phenomenon, a health phenom and a guru in

1001
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 1: your own guru, tell me the impulse to not to edit.

1002
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: That out of the work.

1003
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is the impetus for the video that

1004
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 4: I've just put out right, so my YouTube channel, the

1005
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 4: Rise and Fall of the whim Hoff Empire. It's been

1006
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 4: so hard for me to do this right because when

1007
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 4: I was writing this book, originally in my conversation with

1008
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 4: my editor at Rodale, you know, we didn't want to

1009
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 4: necessarily present Hoff as a complete madman, right, We didn't

1010
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 4: want to show but we're like, look, we're talking about ice,

1011
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 4: water and all of these benefits that go to this.

1012
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 4: It's not the only character in this book. We're trying

1013
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 4: to show that being in environments can change the way

1014
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 4: your body works, and we want that positive news. But

1015
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 4: if we had shown if we had used this story,

1016
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 4: a real story about this guy and the fact that

1017
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 4: you know, I call him a madman in the book,

1018
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 4: but I don't tell him everyone exactly why. And it's

1019
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 4: stuff like this, it's stuff that he does that is

1020
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 4: so damaging that, you know, I was worried that people

1021
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 4: would see this and they wouldn't take the ice water

1022
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 4: stuff seriously, they wouldn't take the practice seriously. And well,

1023
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 4: the problem is is that by the time we get

1024
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 4: to now, now hoff is uber famous. Then he was

1025
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 4: just like sort of a side show. Now he's really

1026
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 4: really famous, and he teaches things that are getting people hurt.

1027
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 4: And I feel like I'm back at the beginning. I'm

1028
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 4: like that kid who was who was at haff Center

1029
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 4: the first time, being like, oh my god, this is

1030
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 4: You're going to get people killed. But then I found

1031
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 4: this thing about him which was amazing, which legitimately is amazing.

1032
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 3: But then now you're back to but you are getting

1033
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 3: people killed.

1034
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 4: But you are getting people killed, right, And the reason why,

1035
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 4: the fundamental underlying thing is actually he hasn't changed so

1036
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 4: much as a person, but he has gotten really famous.

1037
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,959
Speaker 4: And you read that passage or he's on Goop Lab.

1038
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 4: He talks with Russell Brand all the time on his

1039
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 4: podcast see Jordan Peterson. He has a feature film coman.

1040
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 4: Everyone says the same story that I did. Here's this

1041
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 4: awesome kookie iceman who does these kookie things in ice water,

1042
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 4: and he's smarter than science, and you should listen to

1043
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 4: basically whatever he says. And that's the message that gets

1044
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 4: out there, and we as in the press, have continually

1045
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 4: reinforced that story without showing a full picture of Hoff

1046
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 4: And you know, I saw this occurring. I saw him

1047
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 4: go from like two thousand followers on Instagram to what

1048
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 4: four million or three million or whatever he has right now,

1049
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 4: And we're putting him on that same stage of as

1050
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 4: a guru as these people that I was writing about

1051
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 4: in The Enlightenment Trap. And the problem with gurus, the real,

1052
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 4: the fundamental problem with gurus is that usually they do

1053
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 4: start something that's really nice, really good and beneficial to people.

1054
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 4: But as they get as they declare themselves enlightened or

1055
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 4: for other reasons that they may get isolated, they don't

1056
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 4: have any peers anymore. They sort of sit on this

1057
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 4: pedestal someone who's enlightened. There's like, well, you're not enlightened.

1058
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 4: So I am the only one who knows the ultimate truth,

1059
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 4: so you just have to do what I say. And

1060
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 4: this led to lead to sex scandals and all these

1061
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 4: you know, fun things with wim Hoff. He is so

1062
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 4: famous now when so many people have told him he's

1063
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 4: right all the time, that we do not see him

1064
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 4: for who he is, which is a dynamic person who

1065
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 4: has these really dangerous parts of his personality. These you know,

1066
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 4: the worst father around right, abandons his kids in a

1067
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 4: squad house for ten years.

1068
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: I could see the argument that that's irrelevant if you're like,

1069
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: if you're focused on the if you're focused on.

1070
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,760
Speaker 3: The health benefit of what he's changing.

1071
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 4: Sure, and.

1072
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: I could see that someone who is sort of like

1073
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: interested in learning cold tolerance, learning endurance, I can see

1074
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: him being like, uh, well it doesn't matter.

1075
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 3: For instance, the Heimlich maneuver.

1076
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, who knows what Heinlich was up to.

1077
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'll tell you someth worried about him.

1078
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 1: But the Heinlich maneuver, he could have abandoned every damn

1079
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: kid on the planet.

1080
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: Sure, but it's still a great way to dislodge food

1081
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 3: stuck in your throat.

1082
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: But he's got a little bit of like what he's

1083
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 1: got a little bit of what the picture you start

1084
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: to painting about this Feller because he later in life

1085
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: started thinking that it fixed things that it didn't.

1086
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oh no, he later in.

1087
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 1: Life got to be like, oh, yeah, if you're having

1088
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: an epileptic seizures, happing with the I don't know if

1089
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: that in particular, but he wanted feeling that the Heimlich

1090
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: maneuver was applicable to all these other issues. Just in

1091
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: this you know, it kind of like tarnished his own reputation,

1092
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: like he kind of went went crazy with the Heimlich

1093
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: But point being, well, was up to and I don't know,

1094
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: idea what he's up to as a parent, what he's

1095
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: up to as a parent has no bearing.

1096
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 3: It's a great way to dislodge.

1097
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I amlick someone one day and it

1098
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: was astonishingly effective.

1099
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 3: I don't care what the hell the guy did.

1100
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the like the fountain animal stuff like that starts

1101
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: to paint like a really yeah, that paints a different picture.

1102
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 6: People people do that. It's called rectal douching, and apparently

1103
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 6: it's like, I mean, I know somebody who does it,

1104
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 6: but apparently there is uh. You know, you feel lighter

1105
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 6: and you feel cleansed, and then there's some kind of

1106
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 6: idea of it affecting your whole sense of self.

1107
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 3: Is it common ad at the town pond?

1108
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 6: No?

1109
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 7: Was there like how long did it take you to

1110
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 7: come full circle on him? And was there other alarm bells?

1111
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 7: A lot like was it sudden or was it like

1112
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 7: a thing that just built up over the years.

1113
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 4: It's it's been a slow process. Because here's the thing.

1114
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 4: I'm very conflut for getting this story out in the

1115
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 4: first place, because I really see value in the practice.

1116
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 4: But I feel like my role right now is to

1117
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 4: in a way save the practice from the man. And

1118
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 4: he is getting to a point where you just like Heimlich, Right,

1119
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 4: if Heimlich had a podcast that was huge, right, and

1120
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 4: Heimlich was like a man Heimlich had millions of If

1121
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 4: Heimlich had the million followers, you know, you can be like, look,

1122
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 4: he's got this great method for dislodging stuff from the throat,

1123
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 4: but he also thinks that the Heimlich will cure cancer

1124
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 4: or will let you fly or whatever it is that

1125
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 4: Heimlich might have gone off on.

1126
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,919
Speaker 1: And then he says, try it underwater, right, And try

1127
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: Buddy of Heimlich underwater Exactly.

1128
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 4: It's phenomenal. This the this is the problem and and

1129
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 4: and what has happened is that so this organization that

1130
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 4: is built up around wim Hoff, Like if you're just

1131
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 4: hanging out with whim it's a great time. He's a

1132
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 4: good guy, genuine you know, he's got his highs and

1133
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 4: his lows. But like you, he's different than most people

1134
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 4: I know. I don't think he's personally influenced by money

1135
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 4: at all, which is really unusual, like most people I

1136
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 4: know are really influenced by money. But he does love

1137
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 4: the adulation. He does love people like being amazed by

1138
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 4: what he's got. You know, we all like adulation. But

1139
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 4: then he's getting infinite amounts of it, and he wants

1140
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 4: to give people more and more. So you want to

1141
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 4: push the techniques. You want to push a little further.

1142
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 4: And the subtitle of one of his books is pushing

1143
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 4: past Perceived limits. Well, if you're pushing past perceived limits

1144
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 4: in a very controlled environment, that's one thing. But if

1145
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 4: you're pushing past your perceived limits to your eight million

1146
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 4: followers everywhere, and that's your method, you can keep on

1147
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 4: doing it. You could do it you're the ultimate authority.

1148
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 4: You're doing this stuff. Well, you're going to get people dying.

1149
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 4: You're gonna get people who take his message and push it.

1150
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 4: You know, he's the iceman. He swims underwater and gets

1151
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 4: these get his spoken world records. It's cold exposure, it's

1152
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 4: breath work. Why not mix the two. Well, it's very

1153
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 4: clear you should never, under any circumstances hyperventilate and submerge

1154
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 4: yourself in ice. It's here's what's going on.

1155
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, let's talk about the deaths.

1156
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 4: Let's talk Well, yeah, so I started learning about deaths

1157
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 4: back in twenty fourteen. People were doing his method in

1158
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 4: various water situations, and he was teaching actively, you know, scrubbing,

1159
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 4: which is hyperventilation, taking out all that co two, putting

1160
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 4: your face in the water and holding it as long

1161
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 4: as you can in various levels. And other people are

1162
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 4: doing this too, like you know, I'm friends with a

1163
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 4: big wave surfer, Laired Hamilton, and he had this XPT training.

1164
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 4: When I went out to go hang out with him,

1165
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 4: we did a similar version of that, and we didn't

1166
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 4: really know the dangers. I think people did know the dangers,

1167
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 4: but we hadn't fully so you're.

1168
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: Talking about full hyperventilating, not like like not taking elements

1169
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: of like a couple hyper ventilating breath.

1170
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 3: You're talking sustained hyper ventilation.

1171
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 4: You can get you can get into a shallow water

1172
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,959
Speaker 4: blackout situation as little as five or ten breaths. Wim

1173
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 4: Hof breathing is often a lot more, and there are

1174
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 4: warning do two or so brass just so we can

1175
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 4: hear it, something like that, But there's you know, you

1176
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 4: can do various patterns of this in general, because your

1177
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 4: body senses the urge to breathe by the build up

1178
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 4: of CO two, right, So it's not like low oxygen

1179
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 4: you feel that popping sound like I gotta breathe because

1180
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 4: I have little oxygen. Instead, it's the build up of

1181
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 4: CO two in your lungs. So when you hyperventilate, essentially

1182
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 4: it's like cooking in a kitchen and taking the smoke

1183
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 4: detector off the wall. There's no alarm system here at all,

1184
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 4: and you can depending on how you do it. And

1185
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 4: any sort of hyperventilation water is dangerous well known. You

1186
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 4: can pass out before you sense any urge to breathe,

1187
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 4: which means your own internal recognition, your own inter receptive

1188
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 4: idea of where you are is just not working and

1189
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 4: you pass out underwater. Now, I've done this on dry

1190
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 4: land with the push ups, like, and it's incredibly dangerous

1191
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 4: if you take a full long breath of air at

1192
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 4: the end and then do your push ups because you'll

1193
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 4: get more push ups out that way.

1194
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 3: You know.

1195
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 4: I hit eighty once doing that on a breath hold

1196
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 4: on a breath hold. Yeah, and because you've blown off

1197
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 4: all the co two, you've confused all the systems and

1198
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 4: then you know, I hit eighty and then boot passed out,

1199
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 4: hit the floor, which on dry land, I got a

1200
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 4: bruise in the water. You die because when you pass out,

1201
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 4: your body just resets and you start breathing, and that

1202
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 4: gets into your lungs and well, long.

1203
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 3: Tangles by before you start breathing.

1204
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 4: It could be various ways. Yeah, the reset could be

1205
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 4: different than not in a long time, minutes go by, Yeah, yeah,

1206
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 4: depending on factors, right, you know for me, you know, yeah,

1207
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 4: there's a lot of physiology to talk about there. So

1208
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 4: we knew in twenty fourteen this was happening. Whim there

1209
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 4: are four A newspaper in Holland had disclosed four deaths

1210
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 4: with the wim Hoff Methode wim Hoff method practitioners dying

1211
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 4: in water. And then there were some warnings everyone who

1212
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 4: was doing this hyper ventilation stuff. You know, there's a

1213
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 4: big warning in my book, there's warnings on wim Hoff's website,

1214
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 4: there's warnings. You know, XPD doesn't do it anymore. But

1215
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 4: like everyone knows, the word got out. A couple of

1216
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 4: Navy seals died doing shallow water blackout and there are

1217
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 4: a lot of news stories about it.

1218
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: They were trying to use this to get a better

1219
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: underwater breath wall.

1220
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 4: I don't believe they were doing. I don't know for

1221
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 4: sure what they were doing, but it was shallow water.

1222
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 4: They were competing against each other and they both drowned

1223
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 4: at the bottom of a pool at a naval training center.

1224
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 4: And then people started to become aware of it, at

1225
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 4: least in my circles.

1226
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 3: Like people, you know, people die during.

1227
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: The shallow water background blackout every year, right, tons of them.

1228
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, whether or not they're practicing something particular or.

1229
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 4: Now there's a whole society called the Shallow Water Blackout

1230
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 4: Prevention Organization. I mean, it's out there, it's known, and

1231
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 4: but what need to happen at this point.

1232
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: Can we talk first about just some people understand why

1233
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about this? Yeah, why it's called shallow water blackout? Yeah,

1234
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 1: so like you generally like it generally hit happens to

1235
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: people forward the surface, right, I mean, well.

1236
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 4: It could happen anywhere. I mean, it has to do

1237
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 4: with this this carbon dioxide blowing.

1238
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: But I've always been confused. Why is it called shallow

1239
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 3: water blackout?

1240
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's actually a surprisingly good question that I don't

1241
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 4: have answered for. I think it's because people can drown

1242
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 4: in surprisingly shallow amounts of water.

1243
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: We're talking about I hear from like when I'm talking

1244
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: to people that have experienced it and with friends that

1245
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: have had it. Like free divers for whatever reason, tend

1246
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,479
Speaker 1: to be like very near the end of the dive,

1247
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: probably because you're you're at the end of the you're

1248
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: near the end, right, right, You're near the end of

1249
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: the dive, right, And I thought, for some reasons related

1250
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 1: to that, that doesn't make me send.

1251
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 4: Now, I think I think it has to do what

1252
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 4: you know, the nomenclature. I don't know, I think, but

1253
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 4: I think it has to do with like you can

1254
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 4: drown in any body of water and free divers. There

1255
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 4: are a lot of free divers.

1256
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 3: You drowned a hot.

1257
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 4: Tub and drowning a hot tb gotcha. And and one

1258
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 4: of the things that I want to point to is

1259
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 4: that the wim Hoff method is you know the ice guy, Like,

1260
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 4: look at the cover of my book. Here's the ice

1261
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 4: guy getting into the water. And we know he's a

1262
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 4: breathwork guy and he's famous for swimming underneath ice. And

1263
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 4: that message is out there, and it's super easy to

1264
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 4: get confused without knowing anything about the whim Hoff method. Right,

1265
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 4: You're like, oh, I do the hyperventilation and I could

1266
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 4: hold it for longer, and it makes sense I could

1267
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 4: do it. And yet every time you do it, it's

1268
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 4: really really dangerous because you've knocked off the alarm bells.

1269
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 4: Scale that up to eight million peace people, you've got

1270
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 4: a real problem. And that's so that's something that I

1271
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 4: feel like can be dealt with warnings. And they an

1272
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 4: Inner Fire has warnings to their credit all over the place.

1273
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: Will they put warnings over videos of people doing the

1274
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: exact thing they're warning them not to do? Well, that's

1275
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: now here's where we came out in a knife juggling video,

1276
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: and there's a sign next to it and said, don't

1277
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: juggle knives.

1278
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 4: Right, So when you watch so watch my video right,

1279
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 4: it's it's on my YouTube channel, and you'll see that.

1280
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 4: Wim Hoff sells this course on his website for ninety

1281
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 4: nine dollars. And when I was talking with them in

1282
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, they told me that they were making a

1283
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 4: million dollars a month selling this course. So I don't

1284
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 4: know what's that like? Ten thousand ish courses a year,

1285
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 4: a month. And in week eight of their ten week course,

1286
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 4: there's wim Hoff saying, here's what you do. You breathe

1287
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 4: keep on doing the breathing, Keep on doing the breathing,

1288
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 4: Go in the water, immerse in the water, and hold

1289
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 4: your breath for as long as you know ten second

1290
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to paraphrase here, thirty seconds, and see

1291
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,439
Speaker 4: how far you can go. And he says this three

1292
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 4: times in his in that one video, and then next

1293
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 4: to it in a warning that's just right next.

1294
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 3: To it says what your don't believe.

1295
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 4: You're lying eyes wim Haw. He doesn't say that, but

1296
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 4: it says what you are seeing is not wim Hoff

1297
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 4: leading someone in nice immersion. It is him teaching cold tolerance,

1298
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,439
Speaker 4: so never do this in water. So there's a big

1299
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 4: juxtaposition between what whim the Madman is teaching and what

1300
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 4: the Inner Fire the organization is trying to present to

1301
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 4: the world. And it's not just that incident, it's also

1302
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 4: and that course is still available as far as I'm

1303
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 4: aware on the wim Hoff website right now, but it's

1304
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 4: also I was on stage with him in twenty seventeen

1305
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 4: teaching the wim Hoff Breathwork to a group of about

1306
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 4: three hundred people. You know, I'm talking about the book,

1307
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 4: and he's talking about the breath work, and all these

1308
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 4: people have never done the breath work before, and they

1309
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 4: all hyperventilate, and then he says, hold your breath, and

1310
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 4: then he plays on screen behind me a video of

1311
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 4: him with his famous swim under there is conflating the

1312
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 4: water and the breath work. And there's also and more

1313
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 4: and more, and I've collected a bunch of these videos

1314
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 4: and showing how he is ignoring his own warnings and

1315
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 4: people are dying.

1316
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 7: Are the warnings there because his lawyers are making him

1317
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:27,480
Speaker 7: put him there? Or like obviously he doesn't.

1318
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 3: Would they be there if it was up to him

1319
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 3: as what a mask.

1320
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 4: Well, wim T has told me that he's never even

1321
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 4: been on his own website, so I don't think he

1322
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 4: cares one way or the other. What's there, Wim is

1323
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 4: the madman and the prophet, right, That's what I call him.

1324
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 4: He's a madman and a prophet profit because he has

1325
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 4: his cool method, not because he's God, but madman because

1326
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 4: he's all over the place, like he's he's way out there,

1327
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 4: and I think he wants to impress people. He wants

1328
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 4: people to think that they can push their limits to

1329
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 4: like crazy spots, and he wants to please people. And

1330
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 4: by doing that, he conflates repeatedly these dangerous but these

1331
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 4: dangerous practices, and the organization might be maybe it's just

1332
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 4: a callous legal thing. Maybe it's they're scrambling to do

1333
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 4: what they can to control Whim. Either way, he's still

1334
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 4: teaching hyperventilation in water despite knowing about this, And I

1335
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 4: talked to him about this in twenty seventeen. I was like, Whim,

1336
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 4: you cannot do this, like you cannot teach a people

1337
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 4: are dying, you know they're dying. And he's like, yeah,

1338
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 4: there's warnings on my website, So I guess he had

1339
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 4: been on his website, so it's where there were one.

1340
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 3: Then someone in the organization call it not a bomber

1341
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 3: what they call it.

1342
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 4: He said, it's lame. Yeah, ainam Hoff says, yeah, I

1343
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 4: know it's lame. And then but we have warnings all

1344
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 4: over our website. What more can we do? And well,

1345
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 4: you could stop teaching hyperventilation and water would be one

1346
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 4: thing that you could do. And this is there's just

1347
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 4: so much confusion just because of who he is and

1348
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 4: and the two pillars of his practice that this is

1349
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 4: becoming a real major problem. And you know, and people

1350
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,839
Speaker 4: are you know he's you know, there's currently a lawsuit.

1351
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to get into talk about some of

1352
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: the deaths they have the lawsuits attached to him.

1353
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you about one of the butt

1354
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 4: shows a very clear connection. Right, there's this guy named

1355
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 4: Andrew and seen as he's in Orange County, California, and

1356
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 4: he's super wim Hoff practitioner. Go Getter wants to push

1357
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 4: his limits like he's one of these guys who who's

1358
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 4: type A and loves it. And he uh watched all

1359
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 4: the videos on YouTube, maybe downloaded the course, maybe not

1360
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 4: couldn't confirm that.

1361
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 3: How was he cast?

1362
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, a Rufio maybe a karate kid. I put him

1363
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 4: like a was it Michael Rufio? So he he's a

1364
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 4: tech entrepreneur, has a social media think game going on.

1365
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 4: He goes it's labor day and he's says, hey to

1366
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 4: his brother. Adam's like, I'm gonna do some wim Hoff

1367
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 4: in the pool, because he does it, and we have

1368
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 4: videos of him doing wim Hoff in the pool. He

1369
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 4: goes to the pool and passes out. And a few

1370
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 4: minutes later, you know, Adam, his brother goes and sees him.

1371
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 4: He's in a meditative position under the water, and they

1372
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 4: pull him out. They do CPR, he gets his heart started,

1373
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 4: brings him to UCI Medical Center, brain dead on arrival.

1374
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,640
Speaker 4: He's an organ donor a few days later, and you know,

1375
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 4: it's just clear that he was doing wim Hoff method

1376
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 4: and water dies, and you know, and that's where he is.

1377
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 4: And the lawsuit is from another sort of similar case.

1378
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 4: Seventeen year old Madeleine Rose Medsker, you know, has been

1379
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 4: practicing the myth hot wim Hoff method for a while,

1380
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 4: accessing it on the computer fathers at their house in

1381
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,639
Speaker 4: Long Beach, California. He doesn't see her for a little while.

1382
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 3: Long later, you.

1383
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 1: Had a detail where there he was arguing with his

1384
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,719
Speaker 1: ex wife about what algebra class.

1385
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know that there's an argument over some sort

1386
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 4: of higher mathematics, which you and I are both not

1387
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 4: good at math. We've already established this.

1388
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 3: There's just a snapshot of life, right, like, like what's

1389
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 3: going on in her, right, I don't know, but she's not.

1390
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 4: The ongoings of a family, right, And she's known for,

1391
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 4: you know, using tech these techniques for calming her nerves

1392
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 4: because there's this big anti anxiety effect to the wim

1393
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 4: Hoff method. He finds her.

1394
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 3: Passed out in the pool.

1395
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 4: She does usually doesn't use the pool, and he assumes

1396
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 4: that she was doing the wim Hoff method in the pool.

1397
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 4: But this is a problem with these cases, right when

1398
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 4: someone drowns and there's no witnesses and there's no video,

1399
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 4: how do you know what they're doing in the water?

1400
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 3: And then she had like wim Hoff tabs.

1401
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 4: You're saying, yeah, I mean this is what the lawsuit

1402
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 4: of ledges, you know, and and and this is one

1403
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 4: of the big problems actually, you know, I started trying

1404
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 4: to investigate how many people have drowned. No one's there's

1405
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 4: no Bureau of wim Hoff Drowning Statistics.

1406
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 3: Right.

1407
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,719
Speaker 4: This is me on Google trying to find the news

1408
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 4: articles that pop up saying, hey, this person passed out

1409
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 4: in water and drowned. And I was able to find

1410
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 4: thirteen cases just from the Google search saying the wim

1411
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 4: Hoff practitioner drowns in water and we're pretty sure this

1412
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 4: is this is how it happened. And you got to

1413
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 4: think that that sample, well, that's pretty you know, that's

1414
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 4: pretty small. Like I've been a reporter for a long time.

1415
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 4: I know that most drowning desks don't generate news articles,

1416
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 4: let alone make connections for what was happening when there's

1417
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 4: no video, no major evidence. I'm thinking that that sample

1418
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 4: is incredibly skewed to small that many people. It's very

1419
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 4: easy to get the wrong idea about the wim Hoffman.

1420
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 4: And how would you know if somebody just is swimming

1421
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 4: and it's like, hey, I'm going to hyperventily in the

1422
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 4: in the water now and they just drowned as a drowning,

1423
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 4: and you know, I will say that my sample, it's

1424
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 4: a global sample. I got thirty teen names. Four are

1425
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 4: in California and seven are in the United States. So

1426
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 4: are we thinking that Americans are particularly prone to shallow

1427
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 4: water blackout? Or perhaps maybe that that that that the

1428
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 4: the way I collected information, the way it's available, it's

1429
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:24,600
Speaker 4: actually a much smaller and skewed sample because of that. Yeah.

1430
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:29,799
Speaker 3: Uh. But if he's like, how much did in your book?

1431
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 3: How much did you push what he's pushing in water? Yeah?

1432
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean no, no, never.

1433
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 3: So your book's clear about it.

1434
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 4: My book is clear about it. I talk about the

1435
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 4: deaths at that point, there were fewer. Uh, and you know,

1436
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 4: there's a big warning at the front of my books,

1437
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 4: and you know, always to consult a doctor, you know

1438
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 4: that sort of thing.

1439
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you pointed to you said, how they're in

1440
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 3: the front of your book.

1441
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:54,920
Speaker 1: There he is in the ice and he's a breathing actually, guy,

1442
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you feel complicit.

1443
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 4: Well, I I what I feel. And the reason why

1444
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 4: I'm so out about this right now, and why you know,

1445
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 4: honestly the whim Hoff community does not like me at

1446
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 4: all right now is because I do feel complicit.

1447
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 3: I was.

1448
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 4: I'm his chief alcoholic, whether he likes it or not. Right,

1449
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:13,600
Speaker 4: I've been doing this for ten years. I am a

1450
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 4: daily practitioner. I did my ice bath today, I did

1451
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 4: my breath work today. I love that method. I've done

1452
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 4: three hundred news programs on Doctor Oz. You know, I've

1453
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 4: been on Ben Green. I haven't been on your podcast

1454
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 4: until right now, but I have been spreading his message

1455
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 4: for a long time. I know that, you know, two

1456
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 4: hundred fifty thousand people read this book. That's at least

1457
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 4: a quarter million. How many of those people got the

1458
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 4: wrong idea? And I feel like if whim is still

1459
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 4: conflating and still teaching this practice, still selling that dangerous

1460
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 4: conflation on his website, I have to go out and

1461
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 4: we have to tell the true and full story because fame,

1462
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 4: I mean, it accentuates mental illness, right, Fame is isolating.

1463
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 4: Fame will will accentuate your negative aspects. And when you're

1464
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 4: doing something which is potentially dangerous and then you're telling

1465
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:10,600
Speaker 4: people to push there them that said, we're going to

1466
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 4: have fallout. And this is where I'm at the beginning again.

1467
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 4: It's like I'm in Poland, I'm meeting him again for

1468
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 4: the first time. And if I feel like if I

1469
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 4: had written that story initially right now, like if I

1470
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 4: was on assignment with him right now, I would write

1471
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 4: a very different story about who wim Hoff is.

1472
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: That was the thing I thought about when I was

1473
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 1: reading it, when I was reading what you'd.

1474
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 3: Reading, what you'd written.

1475
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: About your falling out with some of the teachings, is

1476
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: that you went originally to debunk something. Yes, became a convert,

1477
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 1: and like you said, you're now back around to where

1478
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: you were, but.

1479
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 3: Not necessarily for the same reasons, for.

1480
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 4: Very different reasons. Yeah, And it's because the hard thing

1481
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 4: is because like this stuff does work, and the but

1482
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 4: we are putting too much faith into an individual, right,

1483
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 4: That is the dangerous thing with all these cults. It's

1484
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 4: like you give away your control over to some sort

1485
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 4: of figurehead and you let them run that conversation of

1486
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 4: your life and you follow them as an example. And

1487
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 4: the thing I loved about whim when I first met

1488
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 4: him is like you meet him, You're like, well, I

1489
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 4: would never follow this guy's example. Like just look at him.

1490
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 4: He's got this big alcoholic nose, he's a smoker. He's

1491
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 4: like he's you know, obviously like maybe the worst father around.

1492
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 4: I looked at him, I was like, look, he has

1493
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 4: all these obvious flaws and yet he's got this this

1494
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 4: awesome thing. And I thought that was a really good

1495
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 4: combination in a way, because his flaws were out there.

1496
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 4: He wasn't pretending not to be who he was. And

1497
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 4: I feel like it's not totally his fault that it

1498
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 4: has gotten to this way, because when you speak with him,

1499
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 4: he's still very genuine. But there's a business. It's an

1500
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 4: eighteen million dollar inner fire business run by his son, AmAm,

1501
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 4: who was one of those abandoned kids who does not

1502
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 4: practice the method, who who basically you know, you'll you

1503
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 4: can look in my video.

1504
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 3: There's that I have.

1505
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:11,640
Speaker 4: I have a video of him saying, you know, I

1506
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 4: hadn't seen him in ten years and he was getting

1507
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 4: quite famous, and like I was, you know, I thought,

1508
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,120
Speaker 4: you know, essentially he could make a lot of money

1509
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 4: doing this. Essentially he could take his take his father's

1510
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 4: image and build an effective social media, breathwork and ice business,

1511
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 4: which is exactly what he did. And that is I mean,

1512
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 4: I mean, hell, anyone can do commerce, like it's not

1513
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 4: bad to do commerce, and and then you spread the message,

1514
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 4: but it doesn't feel genuine and it feels like.

1515
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 3: It's moved away from what I.

1516
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 8: Have loved about this method, how do you you might

1517
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 8: you might be equipped to answer this.

1518
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:03,480
Speaker 3: You've used the word cult and even inner fire.

1519
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 1: Is like it's like, I don't get you could take

1520
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: any cult in American history and he could have called

1521
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: it interfire and like yeah, and dude, like I don't, like,

1522
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:19,680
Speaker 1: I don't you know I'm learning right now?

1523
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 3: I don't.

1524
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,679
Speaker 1: I don't have any I don't have any history. Sure,

1525
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: I never heard of interfire until I was reading your stuff.

1526
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. But it just has like

1527
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 1: a funny has like a culty flavor to it.

1528
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 3: But how do you.

1529
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: Get Hey, if someone has a fitness break through, health breakthrough,

1530
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 1: whatever it is, okay, someone discovers something that's beneficial, how

1531
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 1: do you get where the person is bundled with the thing?

1532
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 1: Meaning why did Heimlick? Why are we not talking about

1533
01:19:57,240 --> 01:19:58,839
Speaker 1: Heimlick as a cult figure?

1534
01:19:58,960 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't have a podcast.

1535
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 4: I guess YouTube wasn't around, But how does it happen?

1536
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: Like, for instance, and as poorly as I understand it,

1537
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:08,480
Speaker 1: Like I said.

1538
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 3: My journey into my journey into free diving.

1539
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: It's like I spend some amount of time on it

1540
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 1: over the last some odd years, I hang out with

1541
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 1: people who just because of the good fortune and circumstances

1542
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:22,800
Speaker 1: of my life, I'm able to hang out with.

1543
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 3: People who are really good at it. Sure I'm not.

1544
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 1: The things I learned from them would be like I've

1545
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: learned things from them that have very much not pushed

1546
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 1: my limits, but have made it be an educated way.

1547
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: I can do things that I couldn't do before. Sure,

1548
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 1: I didn't understand how to properly clear my ears in

1549
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: the way that didn't create big ear problems. I didn't

1550
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: understand how to that never occurred to me to land

1551
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:56,839
Speaker 1: the surface of the water and completely relax imagine completely

1552
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,919
Speaker 1: relaxing every muscle in my body and just blowly breathing

1553
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 1: for a while, right and getting like everything relaxed, and

1554
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: going underwater and staying calm and fighting that like, oh

1555
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: my god, A'm out of the water, feeling right. And

1556
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:12,799
Speaker 1: I learned all the stuff, and now I can go deeper,

1557
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 1: I stay down longer. I can do things I could

1558
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: I always wanted to do and couldn't do. But I

1559
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: don't attach that to a figure Kimmy Werner, Greg Fonce.

1560
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: I don't attach it to them being like where I'm

1561
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: gonna go like my love of the knowledge. Just as

1562
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: much as I love those people, my love of the

1563
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 1: knowledge is not extend to them as being like a leader.

1564
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, or you.

1565
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 1: Know, I don't go and a and I'm like, Greg,

1566
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 1: what do you think I should do about my marriage?

1567
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 1: It's like, I just don't. He taught me some really

1568
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,360
Speaker 1: cool stuff, right, he learned it from someone who learned

1569
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 1: it from someone and he's translated it to me, and

1570
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: it's it's taken me beyond my limits.

1571
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 3: But there's no CULTI factor, like how do you who?

1572
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 3: How did he become bundled?

1573
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: Like why is it not he has these ideas, These

1574
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 1: ideas travel around and why does it not be that

1575
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 1: people want to put their hands on them, they want

1576
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: to stand in a circle around him. He needs to

1577
01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 1: say the most guru thing in the world, which is

1578
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm not your guru.

1579
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:17,879
Speaker 3: It's just like the most guru thing on the planet.

1580
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:18,879
Speaker 3: I never have occasion.

1581
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean no, I'm not your fucking guru, you know,

1582
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 1: which is like very guruy, right, I'm just from inner fire.

1583
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this is exactly it, like like the

1584
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 4: cult of personality around him. He is a charismatic I

1585
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,799
Speaker 4: don't know why he's charismatic. Is not a good looking

1586
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 4: like and also people look at him now and they're like,

1587
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 4: he's a he's an athlete, but like he's not an athlete.

1588
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 4: He's got this huge star out of his navel where

1589
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:52,480
Speaker 4: they had to do surgery to read stitches and testines.

1590
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 4: He's he's fat. He's got like this big bulb of

1591
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:58,720
Speaker 4: his nose, and people are like, oh no, we'm off

1592
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 4: is an extreme athlete, Like he doesn't have any records

1593
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 4: anymore other than the I think he is a barefoot

1594
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 4: marathon record in the Arctic half marathon half marathon he

1595
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 4: did like I want to say, six hours. It's not

1596
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:12,679
Speaker 4: that great of a time, but maybe no one else

1597
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 4: tried it, right.

1598
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 5: I.

1599
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 4: Mean, you know it's he has He is an impressive guy, right,

1600
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:26,240
Speaker 4: he has done impressive things, but people have for some reason,

1601
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 4: haff has gotten to a point where where people's just

1602
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 4: blinders go up. They're like, oh, well, he has this

1603
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 4: science behind him, so he must he must be right

1604
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:37,919
Speaker 4: about almost everything.

1605
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 7: And is there an aspect because like in the wellness industry,

1606
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 7: you see like I see some of that, right, So

1607
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 7: is that like CULTI personality thing? Kind of tied to

1608
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 7: the wellness industry and like totally does the wellness industry

1609
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 7: like feed that well.

1610
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:00,040
Speaker 4: I mean his method is good for a lot of

1611
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 4: like chronic conditions, when the wellness industry loves the chronic conditions.

1612
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 3: Right.

1613
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 4: You know, you don't go to the wellness guru if

1614
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:07,960
Speaker 4: you have a broken leg, right, you go to the

1615
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:12,519
Speaker 4: wellness guru because you have a gut something you can't

1616
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 4: quite put your finger on, right, And the actually is

1617
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 4: good for that stuff, like, and a lot of stuff

1618
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 4: is good for that stuff. It's not just the woman

1619
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 4: like that. You know when I said you put your

1620
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 4: your your tent pole down. This can be a thing

1621
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 4: like a beach head to actually help you work on

1622
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:30,879
Speaker 4: a lot of different things. And I think the Wimhuff

1623
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 4: method is a great beachhead. But then when you have

1624
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 4: that beachhead, some people, not everyone, but some people are like, well,

1625
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 4: what else does whim do? He's such a great guy.

1626
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 3: Oh, I love it.

1627
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 4: He's funny. He's got a YouTube channel, he plays guitar.

1628
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 4: He talks in nonsense on stage because he says stuff

1629
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 4: that's way beyond the science. He says, you know, when

1630
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 4: he's on Rogan and he's also said this to me, like,

1631
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 4: you know, I get above one hundred percent oxygen for

1632
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 4: the first time. They proved it in the lab above

1633
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 4: a hundred percent oxygen if hyperventilate, and and of course

1634
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 4: you can't get above one hundred percent hundred percent and

1635
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 4: you you.

1636
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 1: It's like the amplifier and spinal tap that goes up

1637
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:09,440
Speaker 1: to eleven.

1638
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 4: Right right, and he is that amplifier. He is spinal

1639
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 4: tap here and and people like let him get away

1640
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 4: with it, and then he'll throw out these sort of

1641
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 4: nonsense scientific phrases to explain what it is. And maybe

1642
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 4: they're like they sound well, is that plausible? Is that

1643
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 4: not plausible? But you'll be talking to him in a

1644
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 4: podcast or whatever, and you can't sit in fact check it.

1645
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 4: You can't be like, what are you saying? So you know,

1646
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 4: there's this one quote on Rogan sixty I don't know,

1647
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 4: some some number on Rogan where we can just read

1648
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 4: you won't read that quote. Well, you do your best

1649
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 4: whim Hoff if you can.

1650
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 3: And I can't.

1651
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 1: I never I haven't said and I'm just finding all

1652
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 1: about this. It's interesting me because but I can't do it.

1653
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not I'm like, not familiar. Well, and

1654
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: I hope that's coming across to listeners, and I'm not familiar.

1655
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm into this whole thing, though.

1656
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 4: Well, you know you have that.

1657
01:25:58,080 --> 01:25:58,640
Speaker 3: He says this.

1658
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 1: They did it with a laser on the chest, and

1659
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 1: then they were able to measure the mitochondrial oxygen tension.

1660
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: They're able to receive more oction oxygen. That is a

1661
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 1: great finding. It shows that we can have more oxygen inside.

1662
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 1: Suddenly we were able to get into the cell and

1663
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 1: influence the energy production. If it is anaerobic, it is

1664
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:25,480
Speaker 1: like two molecules able to produce. When it becomes aerobic,

1665
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,679
Speaker 1: then it's up to thirty eight molecules they can produce.

1666
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: What happens what happens with the cell that is deprived

1667
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: for forty eight hours of thirty five percent less oxygen,

1668
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 1: it becomes cancerous. As simple as that.

1669
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, does that make any sense to anybody here? Like,

1670
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 4: you know, he throws it out with a sense of confidence.

1671
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:48,440
Speaker 4: And so I actually spent a little while on this paragraph.

1672
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 3: Right, Like, I called two doctors over.

1673
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 4: At Harvard and I was like, is there anything No

1674
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 4: one was the Harvard was at Stanford, and I was like,

1675
01:26:57,400 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 4: is there anything to this that backs it up? And

1676
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 4: they're like, well, you know, maybe oxygen could you know,

1677
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 4: deprivation might be cancerous but like I was like no,

1678
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:09,200
Speaker 4: but specifically our eight oxygen molecules on this hemoglobe and whatever.

1679
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 4: And they're like, no, this makes no sense. This is

1680
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 4: all just just crazy talk.

1681
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 3: And there's a word.

1682
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:19,360
Speaker 1: Another there's a word another researcher uses Brian McKenzie.

1683
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 3: Uh.

1684
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: Brian McKenzie, a breath work expert, an author of the

1685
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:29,640
Speaker 1: book Power, Speed and Endurance. Uh calls some of the

1686
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 1: language they use.

1687
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:35,879
Speaker 3: What's the word he has for it, actually galamataeus. So

1688
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 3: so just to.

1689
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 4: Correct you here so we don't have to get that

1690
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 4: correction later. What mackenzie says is that no person the

1691
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 4: organization understands the physiology and the person uh you know

1692
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 4: it's actually market Well. Walter von markin Liechtenbelt, who's a

1693
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 4: scientist who has actually studied uh haff in a lab

1694
01:27:55,479 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 4: who says that basically, uh whim scientific of acabula Larry

1695
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 4: is galimatis, which is and he wrote that in a

1696
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 4: in a scientific article which I read again this morning,

1697
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:08,480
Speaker 4: and and galamatis basically means gobbleybook.

1698
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 3: Okay.

1699
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 1: He goes on to say he mixes in a nonsensical

1700
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: way scientific terms as irrefutable evidence.

1701
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we see that a lot on the internet

1702
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 4: these days.

1703
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 1: The only uh the only real for me personally, the

1704
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: health and wellness things that make sense to me are

1705
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 1: thing are things.

1706
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 3: Like, uh, work out like a lot, eat a very diet. Yeah,

1707
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 3: I like that, Like things you want to get good

1708
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 3: at doing a whole bunch. Yeah, you know, stuff like that.

1709
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: But uh, like I'm always like half hearing this kind

1710
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 1: of stuff. And we never did it, but I was

1711
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 1: we were gonna make a thing recently where it was, uh,

1712
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna.

1713
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 3: Make a I only made the book cover.

1714
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 1: I made a we made a book jacket called lard man.

1715
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,759
Speaker 3: It was gonna be like I wanted to like compile

1716
01:28:57,040 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 3: like the.

1717
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 10: Gobblely goot yeah about like if you only eat lard,

1718
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 10: And I wanted to come up with all of the

1719
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 10: language it explains all the health benefits and what it

1720
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 10: does to your mitochondrial DNA.

1721
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: You should that and just make like an insane paragraph

1722
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 1: of like shit that comes from eating lard and make

1723
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 1: it be like people be like damn that sounds like

1724
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: a good idea.

1725
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 3: You should do that.

1726
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 6: So that you can say to other people that I'm

1727
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:22,679
Speaker 6: not your guru.

1728
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 3: So we made the book cover it's called lard Man.

1729
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 4: Personally, I think that you should get into the lard

1730
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:33,480
Speaker 4: and the coffee business, like, because lard will definitely supercharge

1731
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,920
Speaker 4: your Yeah.

1732
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 3: No, I think we had it was a guide, an

1733
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 3: ancient pathway to but this is only the farthest we got.

1734
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 1: On my Instagram at Steve Marnella, you'll see my Lardman

1735
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 1: book cover. It's called lard Man, an Ancient pathway to

1736
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:53,840
Speaker 1: more muscle, slickerball movements, and better sex. And it was

1737
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:56,040
Speaker 1: because it was just it came from us, sort of

1738
01:29:56,080 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 1: like listening to health advice from every place, that's like

1739
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: ultimately contradictory and as often I've found weirdly reflective of

1740
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 1: people's reflective of people's ideologies. Meaning a person that is

1741
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 1: going to extol the virtues of eating a vegan, how

1742
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:22,959
Speaker 1: good they feel on a vegan diet, that diet probably

1743
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:28,320
Speaker 1: appeals to some sensibility they held right. Another person like

1744
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,120
Speaker 1: oh no, I only eat meat and I feel great, right,

1745
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 1: probably appeals to a sensibility and and the you know,

1746
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:37,839
Speaker 1: there's this thing.

1747
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 3: That that we talked about this past.

1748
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly a right leaning person likes enjoys meat rarer than

1749
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 1: a left leaning person.

1750
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 4: Now is that a scientific fact?

1751
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly the right leaning person enjoys the taste.

1752
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 3: How your taste receptors are tied to your pol they

1753
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 3: just are or a thing I always bring up.

1754
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,440
Speaker 1: Left leaning people are much more inclined to have gluten intolerance.

1755
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:10,760
Speaker 4: Is that true?

1756
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 3: Yes? So?

1757
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 4: Wait?

1758
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 3: Is that yes?

1759
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:21,600
Speaker 7: Or is that you're.

1760
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:18,759
Speaker 3: Seventy four percent?

1761
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:20,760
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, Spencer, You're seventy four

1762
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 1: percent more likely don't want a medium rare steak if

1763
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: you lean right?

1764
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,000
Speaker 3: Wait? Will you be my guru? All right? That's what

1765
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 3: That's all I want to know.

1766
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 4: So I'm on the lookout for the guru.

1767
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 3: Can you remember why Spencer reported on this? Okay? Like?

1768
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 1: Like, I was surprised because the most common way to

1769
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,560
Speaker 1: order a steak in America is medium rare, which I

1770
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 1: would have thought it was medium. Medium rare is the

1771
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 1: most commonly ordered steak in America, and it's overwhelmingly when

1772
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: you get a steak if your right wing, you want

1773
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 1: to cook less?

1774
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 4: Wait, but I'm I'm left leaning, but I also order

1775
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:00,759
Speaker 4: steaks medium rare. Do I have to start cooking them longer?

1776
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:03,800
Speaker 1: You're one of the twenty four, you're like the other

1777
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 1: end of it, point being, the point being only that

1778
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: the reason like one of the ways I sort of

1779
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 1: like watch one of the areas in which I'm interested in,

1780
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: like wild health things, sure, is that there's so often

1781
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:24,880
Speaker 1: a reflection of current cultures. There's aspects of it that

1782
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 1: are reacting against things. There's things that seem appealing that

1783
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: there's things that would that would like. There's like I

1784
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 1: could come to you with two equally valid sounding hell

1785
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 1: things and I and you might be able to make

1786
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 1: My guess is they're gonna they're going to like the

1787
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: sounds of this one.

1788
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:42,639
Speaker 3: I think you're going to make some sense to them.

1789
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:44,960
Speaker 4: I think you're hitting on actually a very deep and

1790
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 4: interesting topic, which is that and I touch on this

1791
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 4: in a lot of my of my books that are

1792
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 4: the environment that we exist in changes changes our physiology. Right,

1793
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 4: if you live in a varied environment, like you know,

1794
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 4: you're able to go out into the wilds a lot

1795
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 4: and you're able to change to interact with the cold

1796
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 4: or the heat or the stress or the New York

1797
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:12,799
Speaker 4: City streets. All of those external influences literally change your physiology. Literally,

1798
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 4: there's a connecting pathway between you being comfortable in Times

1799
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:23,000
Speaker 4: Square or you know, in the Adirondacks. Right, there's a

1800
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 4: there's some sort of connection with and it's also goes to,

1801
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 4: no doubt, the political environment that you live in, the

1802
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:32,679
Speaker 4: social media environment you live in, and all of those things,

1803
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 4: Like for that information to come into your senses, it

1804
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 4: wires your brain in different ways, and that wiring the

1805
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 4: brains releases different cocktails of hormones and proteins, genetic epigenetic responses.

1806
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 4: It's all connected. So it doesn't surprise me actually that

1807
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 4: you might say that rarer meat does correlate with maybe

1808
01:33:57,040 --> 01:33:59,720
Speaker 4: a conservative ideology. Maybe there's a way that works, And

1809
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 4: I think I think that it probably does through these

1810
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:06,640
Speaker 4: sensory pathways like maybe liberals, you know, maybe maybe like

1811
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 4: the vegetable is more salient to somebody who's left leaning

1812
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 4: because that sort of broader cultural meme. And I'm talking

1813
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 4: about that not in a like an internet meme, but

1814
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 4: there's an anthropological idea of the meme that that actually

1815
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 4: translates into our physiology because we are intimately connected with

1816
01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 4: our environment. You can't really think of a human not

1817
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:29,879
Speaker 4: in their environment.

1818
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 3: Who would you be?

1819
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 4: Who would your ten year old child be without all

1820
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:35,519
Speaker 4: of the experiences prior to it to that? And who

1821
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 4: would that child be without all of your experiences that

1822
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 4: led to that child being born in the first place.

1823
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:41,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, picture that.

1824
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:46,559
Speaker 1: Picture that you've always like. Your parents' eyes made you

1825
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,000
Speaker 1: eat a lot of steak and stuff. You could only

1826
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 1: ever think about the cow. You always felt a little bad.

1827
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: You understood that it was really important to need a

1828
01:34:55,880 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: very diet. It always nagged on you, the welfare. And

1829
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: then one day you meet someone who's like, man, I

1830
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:05,760
Speaker 1: don't eat I don't eat any meat, and I feel fantastic.

1831
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 1: That person then cuts meat out of their diet. They're like, god,

1832
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 1: I feel so much better.

1833
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,000
Speaker 4: Well, sure, and humans, And I'm not even saying it's

1834
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 4: not true. Homo sapiens are omnivorous and highly varied. Right,

1835
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:23,320
Speaker 4: So from my anthropological training, you know there isn't an

1836
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 4: ancestral lifestyle, right, But I will say that it's not lunchables, right,

1837
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:30,519
Speaker 4: It's not going to the grocery store. The ancestral lifestyle

1838
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 4: had to do with the environment, that we inhabited. If

1839
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 4: you are a coastal tribe with a rich mollusk access,

1840
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 4: you survived on bivalves because that was available. You varied

1841
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 4: with the seasons. And I don't know if there were

1842
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:44,960
Speaker 4: true vegetarian groups.

1843
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:45,320
Speaker 3: But there may have been.

1844
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:49,400
Speaker 4: There could have well been a tuber centric tribe out there,

1845
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 4: and they probably survived just fine, because one of the

1846
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 4: evolutionary advantages of humans is that we are incredibly adaptable

1847
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:00,880
Speaker 4: to a highly varied environ.

1848
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: Do you feel that you are susceptible to something like

1849
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 1: whim Hoff because you you're a searcher, so like you

1850
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:15,320
Speaker 1: got you went into Betan Buddhism, got into it, presumably

1851
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 1: not as into it now you got into wim Hoff,

1852
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 1: you got out of it. Do you feel that you

1853
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:25,840
Speaker 1: have like a searcher mind and you're susceptible to gurus. No,

1854
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:28,080
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm as susceptible to gurus. Actually, I

1855
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:31,680
Speaker 1: think that I am very skeptical by nature, and I

1856
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 1: have a real you know, a bug in my bonnet

1857
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:38,160
Speaker 1: for truth, right and one of the reasons why, and

1858
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 1: I have meditated for years, but I've never followed, like,

1859
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 1: never gotten guru afide right, I was leading that a

1860
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 1: broad program, but I wasn't a Tibetan Buddhist.

1861
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 4: I don't have a lama or anything like that. What

1862
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:56,680
Speaker 4: I'm interested in is the intersection of complex cultures and individuals.

1863
01:36:56,720 --> 01:37:02,599
Speaker 4: And I'm really you know, I think that if someone

1864
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 4: lies to me or I feel like there is something

1865
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,759
Speaker 4: that's untrue or that I need to investigate, my nature

1866
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 4: is to investigate. My nature is to go like a

1867
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:15,519
Speaker 4: bloodhound on a story and find out what the truth is.

1868
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:18,639
Speaker 4: And I realized that maybe that is a personality flaw

1869
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 4: because I'm always digging around in things that maybe don't

1870
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 4: even matter in the end. Right, maybe no one needs

1871
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 4: to know what the Buddha was saying eight hundred years

1872
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:30,439
Speaker 4: ago that led people to commit suicide, right, Like, maybe

1873
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:36,160
Speaker 4: that doesn't even matter. But I have this just impulse

1874
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:40,120
Speaker 4: to sort out bullshit from reality.

1875
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:44,720
Speaker 1: Did you when it came to too going after like

1876
01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 1: in pointing out the risk and the you know, you've

1877
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:55,360
Speaker 1: identified thirteen potential deaths here, did you initially think that?

1878
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 3: Have you in the past gone to Inner Fire or

1879
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:02,640
Speaker 3: gone to wim.

1880
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 1: Hoff and said, listen, there's like a problem and we

1881
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: should read you guys should redo a bunch of stuff

1882
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:10,800
Speaker 1: and clarify this point. And and that just didn't doesn't

1883
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 1: get traction.

1884
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:15,400
Speaker 4: Four years, I mean, this has not been a new thing.

1885
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:17,559
Speaker 4: Like in twenty seventeen when we were on stage. The

1886
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 4: first thing I said to him after we were on

1887
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 4: stage was you can't do this, and he was like, oh,

1888
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:26,040
Speaker 4: they're warnings, don't worry about it. And and I have

1889
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 4: been a a you know, I don't. I didn't talk

1890
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:31,760
Speaker 4: to Himhoff for a few years after the book came

1891
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:36,320
Speaker 4: out after that moment. And I also don't really like,

1892
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 4: have you ever tried to change someone's mind? You know, like,

1893
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:42,720
Speaker 4: have you ever been successful at changing someone's mind?

1894
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 3: With at that?

1895
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 4: With oh you have? Okay, well, oh just buying a

1896
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 4: little thing. But not but like you're doing something wrong right, Like.

1897
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 1: You against dishwashers and I've gotten into dishwashers.

1898
01:38:56,200 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 4: Okay, but did you yourself by who with the dishwasher

1899
01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:00,679
Speaker 4: change your mind?

1900
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 5: No?

1901
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 3: My wife and my friend honest, okay, well those people.

1902
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't sound like a deeply held reb

1903
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 4: but I can no, No, it was. But there's no

1904
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:14,880
Speaker 4: way in the world that I could convince you that

1905
01:39:15,320 --> 01:39:20,040
Speaker 4: animals need to be protected under all conditions and uh,

1906
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 4: and never be hunted. Right, there's no there's no combination

1907
01:39:23,960 --> 01:39:26,439
Speaker 4: of words that leave my mouth that go to your brain.

1908
01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 4: You're like, wal Scott, you got a point. I'm going

1909
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 4: to be a vegan. I just don't see that happening.

1910
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:31,880
Speaker 3: I think, yeah.

1911
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,320
Speaker 4: And it's the same thing with Whim. He's been doing

1912
01:39:34,320 --> 01:39:36,600
Speaker 4: this for so long. He's been doing these feats. He

1913
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:40,639
Speaker 4: believes in what he does and and he just doesn't

1914
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:45,519
Speaker 4: hear things that contradict that. And you know there's this

1915
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:52,240
Speaker 4: one quote you can bring that up. Uh, just search

1916
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 4: for Jesus.

1917
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:53,920
Speaker 3: Uh.

1918
01:39:58,439 --> 01:39:58,599
Speaker 9: Right.

1919
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 4: So I started asking him, like, what is.

1920
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:06,040
Speaker 3: The what is the command key for search?

1921
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:07,200
Speaker 5: Control F?

1922
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:08,760
Speaker 4: Control F.

1923
01:40:08,960 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 3: That's why they were goal M. That's why I was

1924
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 3: thinking control.

1925
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:15,719
Speaker 4: So I approached him during the reporting of this story.

1926
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:18,160
Speaker 4: This was like a month or two ago, and I

1927
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:21,160
Speaker 4: was like, look, you know, you have people drowning and

1928
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 4: uh and and there's some problems here and it's roughly

1929
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 4: the stuff that we were talking about here. He follows

1930
01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:29,200
Speaker 4: my you know, Instagram post, and he knows that I'm

1931
01:40:29,240 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 4: you know, causing trouble.

1932
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 1: Uh.

1933
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:33,799
Speaker 4: And you know, he wrote to me twenty eight thousand

1934
01:40:33,840 --> 01:40:37,559
Speaker 4: people drown every year, and that I was blaming him

1935
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:40,160
Speaker 4: for all of their deaths, which I wasn't. And also

1936
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:42,840
Speaker 4: it's two hundred and eighty thousand people that drown every year.

1937
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:46,960
Speaker 4: And then he wrote me this, well, so I was

1938
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:51,240
Speaker 4: talking specifically about I read Yeah, I read it like

1939
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 4: five times. So just to give you some context. At

1940
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:59,600
Speaker 4: a recent Whimhoff event, he teaches something called a baptism

1941
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 4: where peop will hyperventilate, they take twelve very deep breaths

1942
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:05,360
Speaker 4: and then all put their face in the water together.

1943
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:07,680
Speaker 4: And there's this video. It's very culty, very you know,

1944
01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:11,360
Speaker 4: it's intense. And then here I asked him about that

1945
01:41:11,439 --> 01:41:14,360
Speaker 4: and he said, look into baptism. This is my Wimhoff impression.

1946
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:17,439
Speaker 4: Look into baptism then the real meaning of it. You

1947
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:20,720
Speaker 4: might learn something. I know what I do baptism. The

1948
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:24,040
Speaker 4: real one is shutting down our over controlling mind and

1949
01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:27,640
Speaker 4: activate deep healing mechanisms in the body. Not going to

1950
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:31,920
Speaker 4: explain this physiologically, not into cut competition sports here, which

1951
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:35,639
Speaker 4: is entertainment. Since the Roman Empire who killed an innocent

1952
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 4: man called Jesus. Now, I don't know what this means,

1953
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:44,800
Speaker 4: all right, I really don't, but it does.

1954
01:41:45,439 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 3: Look, he's inviting you to go to the Bible.

1955
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 1: And look into the real meaning of baptism, which in

1956
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 1: his starting of the Bible he has found it that

1957
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:02,880
Speaker 1: what Jesus was doing when he baptized his disciples, as

1958
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:07,320
Speaker 1: he was shutting down their over controlling minds and activating

1959
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 1: deep healing mechanisms in their body.

1960
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:18,639
Speaker 3: I don't I'm no uh theologian, but I don't think.

1961
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:22,680
Speaker 1: That that's what Jesus is saying when he teaches baptism.

1962
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 4: No, but it does seem that's what is saying exactly.

1963
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:26,720
Speaker 3: But he's not.

1964
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:28,439
Speaker 1: I'm telling you asked what he's so he says, I'm

1965
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 1: not going to explain this physiogical.

1966
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:30,640
Speaker 3: He's not.

1967
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:34,240
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to explain a physiology. He's not into competition.

1968
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 1: He's not into sports because sports is entertainment. Since the

1969
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:47,600
Speaker 1: Roman Empire killed an innocent man called Jesus, sports is entertainment.

1970
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna run in circles here, man,

1971
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:53,280
Speaker 4: I don't.

1972
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:57,439
Speaker 3: Know where you're going. I'm trying to understand the passage.

1973
01:42:57,720 --> 01:42:59,640
Speaker 1: You know, in college they toss a good trick when

1974
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:01,880
Speaker 1: you're reading something. If you when you read a sentence

1975
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:04,439
Speaker 1: that you feel as total bullshit. M hmm okay, and

1976
01:43:04,439 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 1: you're like, I've read the sentence a home times, I

1977
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:07,760
Speaker 1: don't know what it means. There's a good trick. Add

1978
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:11,679
Speaker 1: the word not into it, put the word not somewhere

1979
01:43:11,680 --> 01:43:14,519
Speaker 1: in the sense anywhere, and then read it again. Wait

1980
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 1: there be like wait a minute, that's the opposite. Or

1981
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:18,799
Speaker 1: you're like, well, no, that didn't change anything.

1982
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:22,160
Speaker 4: But there already is a knot into it, not not

1983
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:24,040
Speaker 4: into competitions for it.

1984
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:24,840
Speaker 3: Is a double I'm saying.

1985
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 1: But in this case, since the word not is in there,

1986
01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 1: pull the word not outa read the sentence that you

1987
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:32,839
Speaker 1: think is horseshit and feel like did.

1988
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:34,599
Speaker 3: It did it fundamentally change for you?

1989
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 1: And when I do that exercise, it doesn't fundamentally change.

1990
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:39,880
Speaker 3: Its correct because it was not going to do it.

1991
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:41,040
Speaker 4: That is a good trick.

1992
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 3: It doesn't help you know what they're talking about.

1993
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:46,559
Speaker 1: It just helps you go like, even when I add

1994
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:48,760
Speaker 1: the knot, or in this case, I take away the

1995
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:50,200
Speaker 1: knot and I read it, it.

1996
01:43:50,120 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 3: Doesn't fund It doesn't fundamentally change.

1997
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 7: Mind, it remains gobblly gook.

1998
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it doesn't. Yeah, it's a way it's

1999
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 1: a trick. It's a thing to go like, is this

2000
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:03,519
Speaker 1: sentence bullshit? I'm going to add the word not somewhere

2001
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,360
Speaker 1: and then read it again, and then I still look

2002
01:44:06,400 --> 01:44:07,920
Speaker 1: at it and I'm like, no, just as full shit

2003
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:08,880
Speaker 1: as it was a minute ago.

2004
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,840
Speaker 4: It's well just to me. To me, what this looks

2005
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:17,200
Speaker 4: like is like wim Hoff comparing himself to Jesus. It

2006
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:20,679
Speaker 4: looks like he has gotten to the point where he

2007
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,320
Speaker 4: is in the enlightenment trap. And the enlightenment trap is

2008
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 4: when you start believing all your own shit because you

2009
01:44:25,479 --> 01:44:28,799
Speaker 4: have talken to angels, are talking to your Buddhist angels.

2010
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:30,960
Speaker 4: And in this case, I don't think women as a

2011
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 4: Christian in particular, but I do think that he does

2012
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:38,000
Speaker 4: a lot of water work, and he has a spiritual

2013
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:41,200
Speaker 4: bent to the things that he says, and I like spirituality.

2014
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:44,880
Speaker 4: It's great to a point. And I think that he

2015
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:50,639
Speaker 4: is so isolated now that he is comparing himself to Jesus.

2016
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:55,160
Speaker 4: He sees himself as infallible to some degree, and that

2017
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:58,800
Speaker 4: when confronted with the little evidence of deaths and of

2018
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:02,360
Speaker 4: sixty seven, a million dollar lawsuit that we haven't talked

2019
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:05,639
Speaker 4: about yet. Oh we did a sixty seven million dollar lawsuit.

2020
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 4: He's still diverting in some sort of spiritual bypassing framework.

2021
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:16,799
Speaker 7: Has he ever, like, in any way acknowledged that people

2022
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:19,479
Speaker 7: have died doing his deal?

2023
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:19,840
Speaker 3: Yes?

2024
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 4: Yes, in this passage, he's like, are you gonna blame

2025
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:25,360
Speaker 4: me for all the twenty eight thousand people who have drowned?

2026
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,360
Speaker 4: And they do have warnings on their website, and the

2027
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 4: warnings were placed there in response to deaths, perhaps, as

2028
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 4: you mentioned earlier, for a legal reason. But he knows

2029
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:35,040
Speaker 4: this is going on.

2030
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:37,600
Speaker 3: He is well aware of it.

2031
01:45:38,240 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 4: Whether or not he believes he's ultimately responsible, now that's

2032
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:42,000
Speaker 4: a different question.

2033
01:45:44,160 --> 01:45:44,439
Speaker 3: Hmm.

2034
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:52,080
Speaker 1: So what what's going to happen to you?

2035
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 3: Now?

2036
01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Well, I'm already getting a fair amount

2037
01:45:55,520 --> 01:46:00,200
Speaker 4: of attacks by the sort of there's a lot large

2038
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:02,920
Speaker 4: group of people who subscribe to the wim Hoff method,

2039
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:07,640
Speaker 4: and most of them are very sane. You know, the

2040
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:10,679
Speaker 4: wim Hoff instructors that I've known, I will to their credit,

2041
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:14,200
Speaker 4: I've never met one of them who says hyperventilate and water.

2042
01:46:14,200 --> 01:46:16,959
Speaker 4: And there's like, I guess, eighteen hundred wim Hoff method instructors.

2043
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:18,400
Speaker 3: So the people who teach.

2044
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:21,240
Speaker 4: This method, who I have met, seem to be doing

2045
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 4: the good work and are understanding what's going on. There

2046
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:28,720
Speaker 4: are many people who are, I believe, hooked into this

2047
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 4: idea of wim Hoff as not their guru, but really

2048
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:36,880
Speaker 4: might their guru. And I see a lot of people

2049
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:38,599
Speaker 4: whove been very angry at me for putting this out

2050
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:41,640
Speaker 4: because you know, as his essentially his chief alkholite for

2051
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:44,639
Speaker 4: ten years, you know, been doing his method for ten years,

2052
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:46,559
Speaker 4: been doing videos about him for a while.

2053
01:46:46,760 --> 01:46:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta admit it looks like I'm just it

2054
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:50,240
Speaker 1: looks suspicious.

2055
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 4: What do you mean what you're doing?

2056
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:55,520
Speaker 1: Why is that because you were like his disciple? Yeah,

2057
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:57,400
Speaker 1: and now you're going against him. It's like it's got

2058
01:46:57,400 --> 01:47:00,640
Speaker 1: like a Star Wars you kind of groove to it. Yeah,

2059
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 1: I mean it's like a whole part of like like

2060
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 1: a like a mentor has like a mentee has to

2061
01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: turn that. It's like some kind I can't remember how

2062
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:12,799
Speaker 1: that there's like a like a mentee. We will eventually

2063
01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: have to bypass. And but you're not looking for the

2064
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:15,800
Speaker 1: crown though.

2065
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,800
Speaker 4: No, I don't want to be whim Hoff. I want

2066
01:47:18,800 --> 01:47:20,759
Speaker 4: to do other things. I'm writing a book on napping

2067
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:25,720
Speaker 4: right now, like I am so done with this.

2068
01:47:26,160 --> 01:47:28,120
Speaker 3: If you look if you're.

2069
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:32,679
Speaker 1: Looking for the crown, if you were looking for the crown,

2070
01:47:33,080 --> 01:47:37,439
Speaker 1: it would be very suspicious, right. But I could see that.

2071
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 1: I could see where someone might look. If someone came

2072
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:41,320
Speaker 1: to me and said, hey, man, there's a guy. There's

2073
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:44,280
Speaker 1: a writer. Okay, oh right, uh.

2074
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 3: Like everything. Let's return to Apocalypse now.

2075
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 1: In Apocalypse Now, Captain Willard, they come to Captain Willer.

2076
01:47:55,240 --> 01:47:55,800
Speaker 3: Who's nuts.

2077
01:47:56,400 --> 01:47:59,240
Speaker 1: Willard's nuts, and they come to them and say, we

2078
01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 1: need you to go kill the nuts guy, right, Colonel Kurtz.

2079
01:48:04,479 --> 01:48:07,519
Speaker 1: So he goes up the river to find Kurtz and

2080
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:13,400
Speaker 1: kill him. When he gets to Kurtz, he for quite

2081
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:17,040
Speaker 1: a while. You can tell what's turning into his head.

2082
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:21,400
Speaker 4: Is I kind of see where he's coming from.

2083
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,200
Speaker 1: He's like, this guy's got a lot of good points. Yeah, yeah,

2084
01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:31,320
Speaker 1: it's intoxicating. He meets a photographer, Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper's like, listen,

2085
01:48:31,360 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 1: I'm really crazy. I can't go tell them what a

2086
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 1: genius he is. You need to go tell him what

2087
01:48:38,479 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 1: a gene you're here. You don't know what you're here.

2088
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 1: You think you're here to kill him, You're here to

2089
01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 1: tell the world.

2090
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:47,680
Speaker 3: What a genius he is.

2091
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:51,559
Speaker 1: He knows how to win the war, but then he

2092
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:54,559
Speaker 1: chopped from ote the machete, so he doesn't do it.

2093
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 3: In the end.

2094
01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:57,559
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, like, it's like a mini version to

2095
01:48:57,640 --> 01:49:01,439
Speaker 1: be that you went to like debunk him, became an right.

2096
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:02,960
Speaker 4: So wait are you so is this the guy?

2097
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:03,800
Speaker 3: Am I supposed to get.

2098
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:05,200
Speaker 4: A machete here?

2099
01:49:07,400 --> 01:49:11,040
Speaker 3: But you spent longer in the temple. Okay, you spent

2100
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 3: longer in the temple. Now you're going to get him

2101
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:13,400
Speaker 3: with the machete.

2102
01:49:13,479 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, yeah, if people are mad, I could,

2103
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:17,920
Speaker 1: like if someone came to me and sketched out like

2104
01:49:17,960 --> 01:49:20,519
Speaker 1: there was a writer that went to debunk Guru and

2105
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:24,120
Speaker 1: became a disciple of the guru and then later went

2106
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:27,800
Speaker 1: to like debunk the Guru, I would just I would.

2107
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:30,320
Speaker 1: I would think of apocalypse now. So for people to

2108
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 1: be mad, I'm not surprised that they're mad, but they

2109
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:35,240
Speaker 1: still have to they still have to wrestle with what you're.

2110
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:36,280
Speaker 3: Laying out exactly.

2111
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:40,479
Speaker 4: And my feeling is that I am here to tell

2112
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:44,479
Speaker 4: the truth and that was the way I started. I

2113
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:46,360
Speaker 4: haven't changed all that much.

2114
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:47,880
Speaker 3: You still like the method.

2115
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:49,840
Speaker 4: I still like the method. I'm still trying and I'm

2116
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:52,120
Speaker 4: trying to save the method, and I don't want to

2117
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:54,160
Speaker 4: run the method that's not my.

2118
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:58,280
Speaker 3: Make is such a better story, Okay, And.

2119
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 4: Now the disciple has become the no. I mean, I

2120
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:06,080
Speaker 4: have do my own things and uh and he can have.

2121
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:08,679
Speaker 3: Is that that whole world.

2122
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:11,439
Speaker 4: I just don't want people dying. And I also want

2123
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:14,840
Speaker 4: them not to actually take any gurus. I want them not.

2124
01:50:15,479 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 4: I'm not your fucking guru. Whim's not your fucking girl.

2125
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:19,559
Speaker 4: You're not their fucking girl. You're not their fucking guru.

2126
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:22,360
Speaker 4: No one's a fucking guru. You have to do this yourself.

2127
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 4: And we do not give control over to other people

2128
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:27,559
Speaker 4: like this and I and I feel very sad for

2129
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:31,760
Speaker 4: Whim that he has become so isolated by this organization.

2130
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:35,599
Speaker 4: And I would like to see the beauty again that

2131
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:39,200
Speaker 4: was there at the beginning, where it wasn't so commercialized,

2132
01:50:39,439 --> 01:50:41,519
Speaker 4: where it wasn't such a big business, and you could

2133
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 4: be like, hey, we're taking anice bath. Were pushing our limits,

2134
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:48,280
Speaker 4: and it's rational because that is where the the that's

2135
01:50:48,280 --> 01:50:51,080
Speaker 4: where the magic is. It's confronting your own self in

2136
01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:52,160
Speaker 4: these environments and.

2137
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:53,759
Speaker 3: It is the heimlich maneuver.

2138
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:58,559
Speaker 4: It's the Hindlick maneuver, not hindlick heim Lick heim Lick.

2139
01:50:58,600 --> 01:50:59,880
Speaker 3: It's the maneuver, not the man.

2140
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:01,559
Speaker 6: So.

2141
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:04,120
Speaker 7: I mean, if you could like break it down to

2142
01:51:04,280 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 7: like one thing that you would want people to do,

2143
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:09,680
Speaker 7: it would just be do the method, but don't do

2144
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:10,559
Speaker 7: it in ice water.

2145
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:13,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would have made this podcast much shorter.

2146
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 1: Brod should start a podcast where it's a really quick podcast.

2147
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:22,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2148
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 1: His Watergate investigation would be they went into a building

2149
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,120
Speaker 1: and stole some stuff, and.

2150
01:51:31,080 --> 01:51:31,960
Speaker 4: The president.

2151
01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:36,880
Speaker 3: It turns out they all do. Yeah, I tell me

2152
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:40,559
Speaker 3: real quick in clothes talking about napping, Oh man, you

2153
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:42,880
Speaker 3: got it. You give me a napping good. You're gonna

2154
01:51:42,920 --> 01:51:44,960
Speaker 3: come over your house and fall sleep too. Dude. I

2155
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:45,519
Speaker 3: so want that.

2156
01:51:46,200 --> 01:51:49,080
Speaker 4: I so want that role. That's the role I want.

2157
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:50,960
Speaker 4: I want to be the napping No. I love naps.

2158
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:51,880
Speaker 4: Naps are the best.

2159
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:53,880
Speaker 3: I could pay you two hundred bucks to go nap

2160
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:54,400
Speaker 3: at your house.

2161
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, you're already here. There's a blanket on this

2162
01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:59,720
Speaker 4: table in front of us. I mean, we're ready for you.

2163
01:51:59,720 --> 01:51:59,800
Speaker 5: No.

2164
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:03,479
Speaker 4: Napping like are so They're so restorative And you know

2165
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 4: I've been doing all this extreme stuff for a while,

2166
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:08,920
Speaker 4: putting myself in extreme environments, and that's cool. You learn

2167
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:11,800
Speaker 4: to relax in the extreme environments. What I what I'm

2168
01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:14,040
Speaker 4: discovering with napping, and this book's not out yet, it'll

2169
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:17,080
Speaker 4: be on September. What I'm discovering with napping is that

2170
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:21,240
Speaker 4: you can actually get outcomes out of naps like you can.

2171
01:52:21,320 --> 01:52:21,559
Speaker 3: You can.

2172
01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:25,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to use this very still environment to also

2173
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:28,240
Speaker 4: change my physiology. It's like, you know, there's the fight

2174
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:31,160
Speaker 4: or flight, there's rest and digest. I've explored fight or flight.

2175
01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:34,280
Speaker 4: Now I'm in rest and digest and there's so much

2176
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,040
Speaker 4: cool stuff in it. You can change the way your

2177
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:41,840
Speaker 4: memory works, you can change the way you react to

2178
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:45,880
Speaker 4: to external stimuli but in your brain world. And here's

2179
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:47,839
Speaker 4: a We're just going to leave you with some crazy,

2180
01:52:47,960 --> 01:52:48,679
Speaker 4: crazy thought.

2181
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:51,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I leave you with something you probably missed out on,

2182
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:56,720
Speaker 1: all right, talking to Turkey hunters. Because the nap, the

2183
01:52:56,800 --> 01:53:00,400
Speaker 1: psychological transformation that happens in your late morning app on

2184
01:53:00,439 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 1: a turkey hunt, you need to talk. You need to

2185
01:53:02,240 --> 01:53:05,120
Speaker 1: interview Turkey hunters about that. You're right, I actually like,

2186
01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:08,040
Speaker 1: how could fifteen minutes be so transformative? I'm actually sort

2187
01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:09,879
Speaker 1: of curious, depressed.

2188
01:53:10,240 --> 01:53:12,479
Speaker 3: I thought we'd never get a turkey not fired up.

2189
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, there's something to that.

2190
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:17,720
Speaker 3: It's transformative.

2191
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:19,240
Speaker 4: But here's the thing, Like you already.

2192
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:20,720
Speaker 3: Recognize yourself when you wake up, and then that.

2193
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 4: In your brain, all right, in your brain, you experience

2194
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 4: the world a fifth of a second behind real time.

2195
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:29,800
Speaker 3: Okay, is that right?

2196
01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:32,120
Speaker 4: This is true? Is it comes in through your nerves,

2197
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:34,680
Speaker 4: your eyeballs, The signal has to transfer, and what your

2198
01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 4: brain does is it speeds up the world. It makes

2199
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:39,320
Speaker 4: a whole simulation of the world and speeds it up

2200
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:41,920
Speaker 4: five seconds to sort of figure out how the world is,

2201
01:53:42,040 --> 01:53:44,639
Speaker 4: which means we are essentially living in a simulation created

2202
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:49,960
Speaker 4: by our brains. Right, this means because of this transition,

2203
01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:54,760
Speaker 4: true consciousness, What the truest form of consciousness is what

2204
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:57,200
Speaker 4: happens when your brain is not having stimulus from the

2205
01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:00,719
Speaker 4: outside world. It happens when you're dreaming than naps.

2206
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:03,200
Speaker 3: Mind blown. I am your guru.

2207
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:07,080
Speaker 1: Have you gotten into I imagine in that work you

2208
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:09,120
Speaker 1: probably got into it, and that where you've gotten.

2209
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:09,719
Speaker 3: To sleep in general?

2210
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 1: Yes, of course, Okay, I've been like running around not

2211
01:54:13,120 --> 01:54:16,000
Speaker 1: broadcasting this publicly because I don't and please don't think

2212
01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm doing it now, but I's been running around conversationally

2213
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:20,080
Speaker 1: half understanding something I read.

2214
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 3: Have have you is there?

2215
01:54:22,280 --> 01:54:30,760
Speaker 1: Like a is there any basis too to dementia in

2216
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:34,320
Speaker 1: lack of sleep? Meaning like like people who were chronically

2217
01:54:34,480 --> 01:54:37,120
Speaker 1: chronically one sleep deprived?

2218
01:54:39,400 --> 01:54:42,760
Speaker 4: So much science Matt Walkers, Why we sleep?

2219
01:54:43,080 --> 01:54:43,520
Speaker 3: Just read it?

2220
01:54:43,960 --> 01:54:44,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, dementia.

2221
01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:45,920
Speaker 3: I keep telling people.

2222
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:47,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think I heard something about it made

2223
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 1: me feel like because I sometimes when I sleep, like

2224
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:51,120
Speaker 1: if I sleep eight hours, I'll be like, are you

2225
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:53,520
Speaker 1: lazy bastard? But then now I feel better about it

2226
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:56,080
Speaker 1: after reading that. Yeah, no, start, there's something there.

2227
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:58,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot to it, and and that will

2228
01:54:58,440 --> 01:54:59,800
Speaker 4: be our next podcast.

2229
01:54:59,400 --> 01:55:01,960
Speaker 3: Because I because you're thinking about it.

2230
01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 4: In fact, if you're thinking about it, can you have dementia?

2231
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:05,960
Speaker 3: Mmm?

2232
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:09,440
Speaker 1: So there is like more, there's more than just that

2233
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 1: you feel real rest, that there's more stuff going on.

2234
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:14,360
Speaker 4: Yes, Oh, I mean because sleep is an active state.

2235
01:55:14,440 --> 01:55:16,280
Speaker 4: It's not like you turn a slight switch off and

2236
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:20,120
Speaker 4: like it's not like evolution put sleep. You know, animals

2237
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:22,760
Speaker 4: are vulnerable when they're sleep, right that that you can

2238
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:24,120
Speaker 4: get killed, you can get eat and you're not. You

2239
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:27,000
Speaker 4: have no defenses. You can't run away. Evolution put that there,

2240
01:55:27,120 --> 01:55:28,560
Speaker 4: not because it was like, hey, this is a great

2241
01:55:28,600 --> 01:55:30,800
Speaker 4: idea for a vulnerability. It did it because it was

2242
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 4: important to the physiology and every creature on the planet

2243
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:39,200
Speaker 4: down to like protoplankton sleeps. So it's it's an essential

2244
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:42,160
Speaker 4: part of consciousness and interacting in the world, and evolution

2245
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:45,480
Speaker 4: would not have put it there if it was not vital.

2246
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:47,400
Speaker 1: And if you're a great way to think about it,

2247
01:55:47,400 --> 01:55:49,160
Speaker 1: because you know I talked about you feel guilty sleeping

2248
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 1: mm hmm because you think of it as I guess

2249
01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:58,400
Speaker 1: maybe culturally we think of it as not doing something. Yeah,

2250
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 1: m hmm, I'm going to not do something, yeah, and

2251
01:56:01,120 --> 01:56:04,200
Speaker 1: go to sleep. That has been the mod to be like, no,

2252
01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 1: I need to do something for my productivity.

2253
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:12,680
Speaker 3: I need to go to sleep. Yes, yes, no, that's true.

2254
01:56:12,920 --> 01:56:15,280
Speaker 4: You you you put a sign on your door say

2255
01:56:15,280 --> 01:56:19,040
Speaker 4: I'm working here and take a nap. M That's that's

2256
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:20,920
Speaker 4: one of the takeaways of the book. Maybe you don't

2257
01:56:20,920 --> 01:56:22,280
Speaker 4: need to read the book. We can have you.

2258
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:24,800
Speaker 3: For us right now.

2259
01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:27,320
Speaker 7: Sure feel better after I take a nap?

2260
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:32,440
Speaker 3: All right, man? Well, thank you?

2261
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:38,320
Speaker 1: So if people want to dig into this more. Tell

2262
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:39,480
Speaker 1: people where to go find stuff.

2263
01:56:39,480 --> 01:56:39,760
Speaker 3: All right.

2264
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:42,960
Speaker 4: So I have a podcast called Scott Carney Investigates. It's

2265
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:45,240
Speaker 4: on the same platforms maybe that you're listening to this

2266
01:56:45,360 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 4: on and my YouTube channel which is called Scott Carney

2267
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:50,280
Speaker 4: or something like that.

2268
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:53,240
Speaker 1: I have a lot of books, yep, what doesn't kill us,

2269
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:57,480
Speaker 1: Big mega best seller, Enlightenment Trap, Enlightenment Trap, the Wedge,

2270
01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:00,840
Speaker 1: and the Vortext. There's a lot, and the then you're uh,

2271
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:03,920
Speaker 1: the Red Trade and the Red Market, the Red Market

2272
01:57:04,080 --> 01:57:06,720
Speaker 1: and soon Time to Nap or whatever I'm gonna end

2273
01:57:06,760 --> 01:57:09,400
Speaker 1: up calling that book Time to Nap. I like that

2274
01:57:09,480 --> 01:57:11,800
Speaker 1: one man. All right, thank you very much for coming out.

2275
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:12,480
Speaker 3: Man, it's been great.

2276
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:20,360
Speaker 4: Appreciate it. Oh A ride on.

2277
01:57:24,680 --> 01:57:31,440
Speaker 5: A seal gray shine like silver in the sun.

2278
01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:42,840
Speaker 3: Ride ride on along, sweetheart.

2279
01:57:43,720 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 9: Were done, beat this damn horse to death, taking a

2280
01:57:48,800 --> 01:57:57,160
Speaker 9: new one rid We're done beat this damn horse today,

2281
01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:01,720
Speaker 9: So take your new ride on.

2282
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:10,880
Speaker 3: H