Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carrol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Two days ago, Meghan Kelly posted this on X Ladies,
Speaker 1: is possible to make your own money, have your own career,
Speaker 1: pay for your own swanky New York City apartment, et cetera,
Speaker 1: and find a man who loves you, wants to have
Speaker 1: and raise kids with you, and wants to be with
Speaker 1: you and only you. The only thing stopping you your
Speaker 1: decision to settle for less end quote. Now, I'm not
Speaker 1: exactly sure what spurred this commentary. I kind of assume
Speaker 1: it's that news about Elon Musk's latest child and the
Speaker 1: image of his latest baby mama in her yes, swanky
Speaker 1: New York City apartment, but without her baby's father. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm just speculating that this is the impetus of that,
Speaker 1: but it sounds about right to me. Megan got such
Speaker 1: bizarre pushback that I'm not sure people even read her tweet.
Speaker 1: Responses said they like not wanting to be a boss, babe,
Speaker 1: is not settling for less. My kids were raised by me,
Speaker 1: not a nanny or daycare. It's okay to find a
Speaker 1: man who wants to provide for his family.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she didn't say that. It wasn't. In fact, if
Speaker 1: you look at what she wrote, she was saying that
Speaker 1: you could find someone who will provide for the family
Speaker 1: and that wants to be with only you. One of
Speaker 1: the responses I did like was by an account I follow.
Speaker 1: I never know how to pronounce this. It's TXs alt
Speaker 1: two oh, texas off two oh. She wrote, quote, I'm
Speaker 1: not making Kelly in appearances, brain or talent, but I
Speaker 1: have been able to achieve a life with similar results
Speaker 1: if you desire to have a successful career and a
Speaker 1: loving family. Some additional points I'd like to highlight Megan,
Speaker 1: Kelly's husband is smart, but he does not match her income.
Speaker 1: In order to achieve this result, women need to be
Speaker 1: good with that. Megan married a man who was not
Speaker 1: threatened or masculated by her success. He also doesn't see
Speaker 1: her as a free ride. There's a degree of initiative
Speaker 1: and drive required on his part that prevents him from coasting.
Speaker 1: Family is always the first priority for both parties, not
Speaker 1: the career. She knows her success would not be possible
Speaker 1: without him and his contributions to the family, and he
Speaker 1: knows her success is his. They are a team, not
Speaker 1: two individuals that decided to procreate, but one unit with
Speaker 1: the same goals, drive, and purpose end quote. I really
Speaker 1: like that because it ties into this thing we hear
Speaker 1: about often, which is that women can only date or
Speaker 1: marry men more successful than they are. So what would
Speaker 1: it mag and Kelly do, She's already super successful. I
Speaker 1: think we look at it wrong, Like there's a school
Speaker 1: of thought that women go to college and higher numbers
Speaker 1: than men, and they still have to find men to
Speaker 1: marry at at least their same education level. The math,
Speaker 1: you know, as the kids say, is not mathing. I
Speaker 1: wrote back in twenty fifteen about this that desire to
Speaker 1: find someone with your same level of education is just
Speaker 1: shorthand for finding someone ambitious. I wrote, it's that what
Speaker 1: women continue to look for in men as security, and
Speaker 1: a college degree goes a long way toward convincing them.
Speaker 1: He can provide that we've just gotten to a point
Speaker 1: where it's unacceptable to admit that, so we use the
Speaker 1: college degree code to say the things we won't. We
Speaker 1: want someone with a good job. We will take care
Speaker 1: of us, Yes, even if we're perfectly capable of taking
Speaker 1: care of ourselves. It's not as if women will turn
Speaker 1: down an entrepreneur like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates just
Speaker 1: because they didn't finish college. Exceptions will be made. The
Speaker 1: sooner society lets go of the college degree as some
Speaker 1: sort of marker of success, the better the situation for
Speaker 1: women seeking their mates will be. The numbers won't seem
Speaker 1: so jarring, and the sad tales of women unable to
Speaker 1: find their equal with dissipate. This focus on money in
Speaker 1: a partner really leads women astray, and as I've talked
Speaker 1: about on this show many times, success often follows in marriage.
Speaker 1: Stability gives people the freedom to take chances they might
Speaker 1: not otherwise take. It also pushes them to work harder.
Speaker 1: Passing them a guy who isn't where he wants to
Speaker 1: be in his career can be a big mistake. But
Speaker 1: the main thing that Megan said that I think is
Speaker 1: going ignored is that you don't have to settle for
Speaker 1: a rich guy who's only somewhat with you while being
Speaker 1: with other people. You can go get rich on your
Speaker 1: own if that's important too, So you don't have to settle,
Speaker 1: or you know, you can seek out somebody who is
Speaker 1: successful but will commit to you our priorities are all
Speaker 1: the way turned around, and telling women they have to
Speaker 1: look for men who are more successful than they are
Speaker 1: leads to this kind of ruin. People didn't like her
Speaker 1: comment about the swank in New York City apartment, but
Speaker 1: her point is a very good one. If you need
Speaker 1: the swanky apartment and you feel like that you won't
Speaker 1: be fulfilled unless you have it. Don't settle for being
Speaker 1: the fourth baby mama. Go get it on your own
Speaker 1: and wait for the full package. Thanks for listening. Coming
Speaker 1: up my interview with Mark Debowitz. But first, after more
Speaker 1: than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel,
Speaker 1: there is still a great demand for basic humanitarian aid.
Speaker 1: The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and
Speaker 1: continues to support those in the Holy Land still facing
Speaker 1: the lingering horrors of war, and those who are in
Speaker 1: desperate need right now. Your gift today will provide critically
Speaker 1: needed aid to communities in the North and South devastated
Speaker 1: by the ongoing war. Your generous donation will deliver help
Speaker 1: to those in need, including evacuees and refugees from war
Speaker 1: torn areas, first responders and volunteers, wounded soldiers, elderly Holocaust survivors,
Speaker 1: families who have lost everything, and so many more. You
Speaker 1: can give hope during a time of great uncertainty. Give
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Speaker 1: call eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's eight
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Speaker 1: eight eight four three two five.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My
Speaker 2: guest today is Mark Dubowitz, Chief executive of Defense of Democracies. Hi, Mark,
Speaker 2: So nice to have you on.
Speaker 3: Hey, Carol, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: So this is a show about how you got to
Speaker 2: where you are and what you're all about. Did you
Speaker 2: always want to defend democracies?
Speaker 3: I think I did. I was kind of a strange,
Speaker 3: strange kid.
Speaker 4: I was actually born in South Africa, and I remember
Speaker 4: when I think I was eight years old, my teacher
Speaker 4: called my mom and said, you know, missus doubois, Mark's
Speaker 4: a lovely, lovely kid, but he's really disruptive in class.
Speaker 3: And she said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. What's
Speaker 3: he doing?
Speaker 4: And the teachers said, well, Mark won't stop talking. About
Speaker 4: how great America is and how America is the greatest
Speaker 4: country and has the biggest military and and by the way,
Speaker 4: this was nineteen seventy seven, so these are.
Speaker 3: The Carter years. They weren't good years for America.
Speaker 4: And anyway, so from a disruptive kid in South Africa,
Speaker 4: we then ended up moving.
Speaker 3: I thought we were moving to America, but.
Speaker 4: It turns out we were moving to the fifty first state,
Speaker 4: the state of Canada. And it took me about a
Speaker 4: year or two to discover that we were not living
Speaker 4: in America, that were actually living in another country. I
Speaker 4: was very disappointed, gave my parents a really hard time.
Speaker 4: But anyway, grew up in Canada and was always, you know,
Speaker 4: very passionate about the United States, about American leadership, and
Speaker 4: about defending democracies around the world.
Speaker 2: What was your path to this role? What how did
Speaker 2: you get here? What was your previous job experience before
Speaker 2: defending democracies?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, totally unrelated, strange path I actually so
Speaker 4: I cleared Mindograd.
Speaker 3: I did a law degree in MBA.
Speaker 4: I worked in tech and venture capital, and after nine
Speaker 4: to eleven, like all of us, I was really struck
Speaker 4: by what had happened. I was at the time living
Speaker 4: in Toronto, and I remember turning on the TV on
Speaker 4: that fateful morning was actually my birthday and my wife's birthday.
Speaker 4: We had the same birthday, nine to eleven. So I'd
Speaker 4: made a breakfast in bed, I come downstairs, turned on
Speaker 4: the TV and it was BBC, and I was watching
Speaker 4: What Happened and played Striking the Twin Towers. And of
Speaker 4: course I was because I was watching BBC. The BBC
Speaker 4: host was blaming America for nine to eleven right now,
Speaker 4: already literally minutes into it, I mean, and of course
Speaker 4: with BBC nothing's changed. I was so upset that I
Speaker 4: I literally threw my shoe at the TV. My wife
Speaker 4: walking down the stairs sees me do this and looks
Speaker 4: at me and says, you know, Mark, either you've got
Speaker 4: to change careers or you've got to get therapy. But
Speaker 4: I'm not living with this for the next decade, And
Speaker 4: sure enough I did. I came down to Washington. I
Speaker 4: didn't know anybody. I did that sort of Washington thing,
Speaker 4: which is kind of have coffee, informational coffees with people.
Speaker 4: And I wasn't a US citizen. I didn't have a
Speaker 4: green card, I couldn't work in the US government. I
Speaker 4: actually tried to join the military, but the military told
Speaker 4: me that I needed a green card. So all that
Speaker 4: was left was to look at sort of think tanks.
Speaker 4: And Cliff May had just opened FDD, the Foundation for
Speaker 4: Defense Democracies, and I came in he hired me. I've
Speaker 4: been eternally grateful to Cliff and I've been with him
Speaker 4: for I guess now twenty one years leading efforts at FDD.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Men will do anything to avoid therapy. Really well.
Speaker 4: The funny thing is, men will also do anything to
Speaker 4: avoid me making breakfast or launch for dinner again, because
Speaker 4: since then I told my wife that since I made
Speaker 4: her breakfast in bed nine to eleven happened, if I
Speaker 4: ever made her lunch for dinner, right, it would be armageddon.
Speaker 3: So I haven't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to avoid the cooking altogether.
Speaker 1: Thin.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the last time it was in the kitchen
Speaker 3: was nine to eleven.
Speaker 2: So do you end up becoming an American?
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I finally got got my green card, got naturalized
Speaker 4: in twenty fifteen, just in time for the twenty sixteen election.
Speaker 4: And yeah, it was a very emotional moment to go
Speaker 4: and to be naturalized. I remember there was I don't
Speaker 4: know eighty ninety immigrants were also then being naturalized, and
Speaker 4: I say the Pledge of allegiance and it was really
Speaker 4: really emotional days. I'm proud American ever since.
Speaker 2: Do you think Canada and South Africa are worse off
Speaker 2: for losing you or is that just coincidental?
Speaker 3: Yeah, both countries. It's interesting.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know if there's a cause of connection,
Speaker 4: but both certainly went south after I left. South Africa
Speaker 4: as a disaster as you know, headed up by a
Speaker 4: government with close ties with the ron hamas China and Russia.
Speaker 4: Actually said a piece recent in the Wall Street Journal
Speaker 4: on South Africa, I think the first time I've written
Speaker 4: on South Africa since I've left many many years ago.
Speaker 4: Canada under Justin Trudeau has been also a bit of
Speaker 4: a disaster. So hopefully we'll see a change there with
Speaker 4: a new Prime minister. But yeah, I don't I don't
Speaker 4: think it was my fault for leaving, but unfortunately, I
Speaker 4: think a lot of good people also left, certainly left
Speaker 4: South Africa and waves went to you know, Canada, the US, Israel, Australia.
Speaker 4: So South Africa lost many of its best and brightest,
Speaker 4: and and then many Canadians come down to the US,
Speaker 4: you know, to seek fortune and fame. Because we Canadians,
Speaker 4: we can easily blend in with Americans.
Speaker 3: There's a few tells, but no one knows. It's only
Speaker 3: college sports where you can really tell if a.
Speaker 4: Canadian is a Canadian, because we know professional sports, you know,
Speaker 4: we know politics, we know American culture. They call the
Speaker 4: forty ninth Parallel the longest one way looking.
Speaker 3: Glass in the world.
Speaker 4: Canadians look south, Americans rarely look north unless there's a
Speaker 4: cold front moving south. But the tell is college sports.
Speaker 4: We Canadians don't know much a college tour.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I think that's true for like New Yorkers too.
Speaker 2: I now live in Florida, where I've learned a lot more,
Speaker 2: but I feel like New Yorkers are not not so
Speaker 2: into the college sports. We have a lot of professionals.
Speaker 4: Sports to you, that's it, right, Yeah, but if you're
Speaker 4: really going to if you know, if if CIA or
Speaker 4: FBI counter intelligence is trying to flash out Canadians, that
Speaker 4: would be the question, like, yeah, questions about college football.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the l you know, when they test you
Speaker 2: before you get on the plane to Israel, they ask
Speaker 2: you all kinds of like really deep questions that could
Speaker 2: definitely be one of them from the.
Speaker 3: Canadian Absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 2: Do you think there's any turnaround for South Africa and Canada?
Speaker 2: I mean, and you say you're hopeful about Canada. Is
Speaker 2: there a path for South Africa? Do you care about
Speaker 2: these places like I still care about New York. Do
Speaker 2: you still have some warmth for South Africa?
Speaker 4: I mean I do in the sense that you know,
Speaker 4: I still have family there and friends there, and it's
Speaker 4: a beautiful country, and I mean it's really so much
Speaker 4: remarkable potential. I think it's just been so badly, you know, mismanaged.
Speaker 4: It's that's what happens when you have one party rule
Speaker 4: for decades. The a n C is incredibly corrupt and
Speaker 4: as I said, has these alliances with bad actors, with
Speaker 4: American enemies.
Speaker 3: I have some hope.
Speaker 4: I mean, the recent election saw the a n C
Speaker 4: get the fewest number of votes that it has since Mandela,
Speaker 4: and now in this democracy alliance with some of the oppositions,
Speaker 4: So there's there is some potential. But I mean it's
Speaker 4: just a classic example of what horrible governments can do.
Speaker 4: To a country and it's really despite its beauty, it
Speaker 4: has massive problems political, economic, social problems Canada. Yes, I
Speaker 4: think they're you know, if the Conservatives win and the
Speaker 4: next selection, you know, the Conservative leader there is just tremendous,
Speaker 4: great American ally, great defender of Israel and other free nations,
Speaker 4: so I think he could turn the place around. But
Speaker 4: justin Trudeau has done some real damage there and a
Speaker 4: lot of it's an immigration related. He's just let in
Speaker 4: you know, a huge number of immigrants, which Canada is
Speaker 4: a nation of immigrants and it's wonderful, but a where
Speaker 4: a number of the immigrants have come from has created
Speaker 4: real problems and a huge surgeon anti Semitism in the country.
Speaker 4: And b they led in, you know, millions of new
Speaker 4: immigrants without building the requisite infrastructure in terms of health
Speaker 4: and education and housing, and it's massive problems to the country.
Speaker 2: What countries does FDD kind of see as optimistic and
Speaker 2: you know, civil improvements in the next few years, and
Speaker 2: which ones are they most worried about.
Speaker 3: We're not an optimistic bunch, so I'll have to think.
Speaker 2: About the then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the pessimism, that's easy.
Speaker 4: I mean, we defend the leaguer democracies, right, foundation of
Speaker 4: defense democracies. They don't just sort of defend the platonic
Speaker 4: concept of democracy, but actual democracy is under threat. And
Speaker 4: the three that are obviously we're most concerned about our
Speaker 4: our Israel, Taiwan, and Ukraine, and and do a lot
Speaker 4: of work in defending those democracies. I would add to that,
Speaker 4: you know, certainly democracies in Eastern Europe UH that Putin
Speaker 4: is uh as part of his desire to rebuild the
Speaker 4: Russian Empire, I think I think is potentially going to
Speaker 4: be threatening. Democracies, you know, in the Indo Pacific, particularly Japan, Korea,
Speaker 4: Philippines certainly of concern. Middle East doesn't have too many democracies,
Speaker 4: but you know, we're certainly concerned about some of the
Speaker 4: non democracies that are US allies, and we don't want
Speaker 4: to see you know, Egypt or Jordan in particular go down.
Speaker 4: Obviously the UAE Saudi Arabia threatened by Iran. But but
Speaker 4: I think we're most concerned about Taiwan, Ukraine and in Israel.
Speaker 4: But most optimistic. That's a great question, and I say
Speaker 4: it's America, here we go. Yeah, I'm always optimistic about America.
Speaker 4: I mean, I remember I mentioned that we left South
Speaker 4: Africa in seventy seven and in the Carter years, and
Speaker 4: I remember talking to my dad, uh, you know, as
Speaker 4: a kid and really worried about it's America at the time.
Speaker 4: This was sort of post Vietnam Carter energy crisis, you know,
Speaker 4: severe depression, was severe recession, stagflation, and then the Islamic Revolution,
Speaker 4: and it looked like America really was on its knees
Speaker 4: at the time. And my dad, I remember saying to
Speaker 4: me as a kid, you know, never count America out.
Speaker 3: You know, never count America out.
Speaker 4: I guess is that at Winston Churchill that God takes
Speaker 4: care of babies, alcoholics in.
Speaker 3: The United States of America, right, love it? Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think that's true. We have incredible.
Speaker 4: Resilience here and thank god, two huge oceans, but an
Speaker 4: incredible country of creative people, amazing energy. So I am
Speaker 4: more optimistic about America than I have been. I hope
Speaker 4: the new administration, new Congress and start to reverse some
Speaker 4: of the damage that it's been college in recent years.
Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break and be right
Speaker 2: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I came to America
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight from the Soviet Union, and my
Speaker 2: parents tell the story of you know, they always wanted
Speaker 2: to be Americans. They always spent their lives like imagining it.
Speaker 2: And they get here in their thirties and it's carter
Speaker 2: and everything is kind of falling apart. There's gas lines,
Speaker 2: as inflation, there's you know, on a smaller level, they come.
Speaker 2: My father arrives in the summer of sam and in
Speaker 2: New York City and the riots and the blackout and
Speaker 2: all the stuff, and he's like, WHOA, did I make
Speaker 2: a mistake? And then of course Reagan just a few
Speaker 2: years later and turns it all around. And I have
Speaker 2: a brother named Ronald, and you know, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: But I have to say that the last few years,
Speaker 2: even though I've always been an American optimist, also I
Speaker 2: saw how fast things to get bad and how fast
Speaker 2: that slide into that terrible time can happen. I also
Speaker 2: feel optimistic now, but it's definitely been for the first
Speaker 2: time in my entire life. The last few years I
Speaker 2: felt true pestimism about America. I'm not quite sure that
Speaker 2: we could turn it around. And definitely feel better after
Speaker 2: the beginning of the Trump presidency, I think so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, we don't have wron o' reagan anymore,
Speaker 4: and I don't know if there are any wrong o Reagan's
Speaker 4: in our future. But yeah, I think that the damage
Speaker 4: was serious and deep and potentially.
Speaker 3: Long term.
Speaker 4: And you know, I hope President Trump is going to
Speaker 4: turn this around. I don't think he has a lot
Speaker 4: of time, so I hope he uses that time wisely
Speaker 4: and selectively and not vindictively, because I think you can
Speaker 4: get massively distracted in Washington by going personal rather than
Speaker 4: focusing on serious policy.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4: It's uh, I don't know if it's a you know,
Speaker 4: it's a it's a new dawn, but it certainly is
Speaker 4: an opportunity to reverse some of the the egregious policies
Speaker 4: of Obama.
Speaker 3: And then Biden.
Speaker 2: What do you worry about?
Speaker 3: What do I worry about? Yeah, long list.
Speaker 4: I think these days I'm worried mostly at least in
Speaker 4: the short term, about Iran's nuclear weapons program, and I
Speaker 4: ran a nuclear breakouts. I mean, I think in recent months,
Speaker 4: you know, these Raelis have done tremendous damage to Iran's
Speaker 4: Axis of quote resistance, which I call the Axis of Misery,
Speaker 4: which is their proxy networks. So, you know, remarkable turnaround
Speaker 4: by the Israeli defense forces since October seventh, and I
Speaker 4: think today the Lam of Republic is vulnerable. Its air
Speaker 4: defenses have been destroyed, Zabala has been severely degraded, Hamasis
Speaker 4: and eviscerated. So it seems to me possible, I don't
Speaker 4: know if likely, but possible that supremely early common Ae
Speaker 4: decides this is the time to develop nuclear weapons, to
Speaker 4: create a nuclear re turrent. So I think twenty twenty
Speaker 4: five can be a bit will be a big year
Speaker 4: on the Iran side.
Speaker 3: That's short term. Long term, I'm I'm very worried.
Speaker 4: About China and the Chinese Communist Party, you know, I
Speaker 4: mean that the Iranians are aren't capable of fundamentally transforming
Speaker 4: the world in ways that would be.
Speaker 3: You know, really dangerous.
Speaker 4: The Chinese Communist Party is, and I think that's the
Speaker 4: you know, the generational struggle.
Speaker 3: You mentioned you came from the Soviet Union.
Speaker 4: You know, I did Soviet studies when I was at
Speaker 4: McGill University, and I remember.
Speaker 3: What were they pro Well, that's right, I mean, that's
Speaker 3: a great question.
Speaker 4: Well they were whatever they were they were wrong, because
Speaker 4: I remember that the morning that the berl And wall
Speaker 4: came down, we were all sitting in class and our
Speaker 4: professor so Studies, came in and she said, well, everybody
Speaker 4: get up and bring your textbook and throw it into
Speaker 4: the scarbage can. And we all said, well, we just
Speaker 4: spent a lot of money in our textbook. Well what's
Speaker 4: going on now? Of course a lot of your listeners
Speaker 4: won't remember these days, but this was pre internet, pre smartphone.
Speaker 3: I mean, we were just sitting in class. We had
Speaker 3: no idea what was going on.
Speaker 4: And she said, the Berlin walls just came down, and
Speaker 4: everything in that textbook was wrong, and much of what
Speaker 4: I taught you was wrong. And it was sort of
Speaker 4: that moment really stayed with me, both because it was,
Speaker 4: you know, the end of this evil empire that I
Speaker 4: had grown up with, or grown up not like you under,
Speaker 4: but certainly worried about. But now I think there's another
Speaker 4: evil empire, and there's an access of resistance and an
Speaker 4: access of aggression with IRA in China, Russia and North Korea,
Speaker 4: who are in an alliance against democracies, and I think
Speaker 4: that's a danger as alliance and we're going to be
Speaker 4: struggling against an alliance, certainly in our lifetimes.
Speaker 2: So I have a question. Maybe maybe this answers obvious,
Speaker 2: but you know, I always kind of had this idea
Speaker 2: that if a country opened up a little bit to
Speaker 2: the west and it had McDonald's and it kind of
Speaker 2: let in some of our ideas, that that country would
Speaker 2: automatically move towards freedom and move towards democracy. North Korea
Speaker 2: obviously hasn't done that, but Russia and China have. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, there's still obviously totalitarianism. I still have family
Speaker 2: in Russia. I know all about it. But they you know,
Speaker 2: they have McDonald's. So why didn't it work?
Speaker 4: It doesn't work because I think, you know, there's this
Speaker 4: there was this delusion that you can seduce the hard
Speaker 4: men of Moscow and Beijing and Tehran by flatting them
Speaker 4: with cash, integrating them into the global economy and into.
Speaker 3: Responsible global stakeholders.
Speaker 4: Used to be that, you know, that phrase, which and
Speaker 4: sort of McDonald's was kind of the personification of the
Speaker 4: economy of that. But I think what that misses is
Speaker 4: that these are hard men, and they are mostly men,
Speaker 4: and they're men with ideas, with ideology in the case
Speaker 4: of the Islamic Republic theology. And I think as Americans
Speaker 4: we're kind of like the material girl, right, Like we
Speaker 4: think that everybody, everybody just wants to have like nice things,
Speaker 4: live a nice life, go.
Speaker 2: On nice though, Like, well it seems like that should
Speaker 2: be true.
Speaker 3: It should be true.
Speaker 4: But you know what we're also we're also men and
Speaker 4: women of ideas, right, I mean, the founding ideas of
Speaker 4: the of the American Republic are profound, and we all
Speaker 4: believe very strongly in them, and certainly a lot of
Speaker 4: brave men and women have fought and given their lives
Speaker 4: to defend the American Republic and our constitution. Well, you know,
Speaker 4: they are also people of ideas, and their ideas are
Speaker 4: not materially's life liberty in the procy of happiness is
Speaker 4: not what the Mullas and Iran believe is the founding
Speaker 4: principle of the Islamic Republic. And neither Vladimir Putin nor
Speaker 4: Sijingping right, they have ideas, and their ideas or conquer
Speaker 4: regions and conquer the world. And they want not just money,
Speaker 4: but they want power, they want influence, and they want
Speaker 4: their ideas to dominate the world.
Speaker 3: I think we engage in mirror imaging and believing.
Speaker 4: That our values and our ideals and our aspirations or
Speaker 4: what they want and what many people want.
Speaker 3: And I think that's that's proven to be a delusion.
Speaker 2: Well, my thinking on it is our ideas are objectively better.
Speaker 2: They lead to better outcomes. Like look at the state,
Speaker 2: you know, the state of our country versus the state
Speaker 2: of their countries. Look at the level of wealth in
Speaker 2: our country for everybody versus the level of wealth there.
Speaker 2: How Come they don't have that same I get you.
Speaker 2: It's definitely just bad ideas lead to bad outcomes, and
Speaker 2: you hold on to those bad ideas. But the Berlin
Speaker 2: Wall fell, how come we're not seeing that same change
Speaker 2: in these places that did kind of open up. And again,
Speaker 2: Iran and North Korea are completely different examples. Am I thinking?
Speaker 2: But I would think that Russia and China would lean
Speaker 2: in a little bit more to the ideas that are
Speaker 2: clearly better.
Speaker 3: Well again, I mean, you know Russia better than I do.
Speaker 4: And I think there's always been, well, there's always been
Speaker 4: the struggle within the Russian society, within the Russian soul.
Speaker 4: Do we lean west? Do we lean east? Are we
Speaker 4: European country. Are we an Asian country? And certainly you
Speaker 4: know China is a I mean it was an empire.
Speaker 4: It's a old historic society.
Speaker 3: And they have a completely different view of the world
Speaker 3: and view of themselves. In the word, they call themselves
Speaker 3: the Middle Kingdom, right, when they mean the Middle Kingdom,
Speaker 3: they mean the middle of the earth. Right. Their map
Speaker 3: doesn't look like our map, and their map they are
Speaker 3: the center of the world. And so I think Putin
Speaker 3: wants to recreate the Russian empire, Xijian Ping who wants
Speaker 3: to re establish the Chinese empire. And they're also motivated
Speaker 3: by grievances, right.
Speaker 4: Both both Putin and she believe that they have been
Speaker 4: wrongly done by by the West and they want to
Speaker 4: rectify that and re establish their power. And it is
Speaker 4: about power at the end of the day. It's about power,
Speaker 4: and it's about the spread of their ideas. You know,
Speaker 4: they may be very wealthy, and they may be happy
Speaker 4: to try to create wealth as an instrument of power
Speaker 4: and control, but they're not material girls.
Speaker 2: They should be they should do what advice would you
Speaker 2: give your sixteen year old self.
Speaker 4: Wow, my sixteen year old self, get married early, have
Speaker 4: more kids. I think I would also tell my sixteen
Speaker 4: year old self to come to Washington sooner.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not a popular answer.
Speaker 4: No, I imagine, so, but you know, come here sooner, get involved.
Speaker 4: I came here at thirty five, and you know that
Speaker 4: was it was great.
Speaker 3: I'd done a lot of interesting things before that.
Speaker 4: But I think to come here sooner, get involved, you know,
Speaker 4: get experience, work on the hill, work in the administration,
Speaker 4: you know, serve in the military. I think incredible experience
Speaker 4: for young people here. And I think the greatest people
Speaker 4: that I've met in America are people that have been
Speaker 4: that have served in the military. They're just remarkable people.
Speaker 4: And I think that's true in other countries like Israel,
Speaker 4: as we know.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, my sixteen year old self, get to get
Speaker 3: to Washington sooner.
Speaker 2: I love that. So and us here with your best
Speaker 2: tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2: And maybe it is to be material girls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it sounds cliche, I think, was it.
Speaker 4: I don't even remember it was Oscar Wilde or Marc Dwayne.
Speaker 3: I don even remember.
Speaker 4: You know, love your job, never work a day in
Speaker 4: your life. I mean, I think that's the end of
Speaker 4: the day has really been a great reward in my life.
Speaker 3: Is I like tech, I like bench capital.
Speaker 4: It was interesting, but it was really when I was
Speaker 4: thirty five, came to Washington, got involved in policy issues
Speaker 4: and national security and defending democracies, that I found a
Speaker 4: life of real meaning and real purpose. You know, I
Speaker 4: get up every morning and it's very rare that I'm dragging.
Speaker 3: Myself to work.
Speaker 4: It's usually with a sense of excitement, foreboding for sure,
Speaker 4: but a sense of excitement and passion for what I do.
Speaker 4: Do that don't necessarily pursue the material girl lifestyle, but
Speaker 4: a lot of jobs that one can take.
Speaker 3: We'll give you a lot of money, but very little meaning.
Speaker 4: Some of the best jobs may not give you as
Speaker 4: much money, but butt a whole lot more meaning and
Speaker 4: at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: Short life. And I think a meaningful life is more
Speaker 3: important than a material one.
Speaker 2: I love it. He is Mark Dabowitz, Chief executive of
Speaker 2: Defense of Democracies. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: Mark, Thanks so much, Carol, thanks so much for joining
Speaker 1: us on the Carol Markoich Show. Subscribe wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts.