1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brady. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: My name is Matt Noel is on an important mission today, 6 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: they called me Ben. We're joined as always with our 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: super producer Paul mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you, 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: want you to know. This is part two in our 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: series on the massive farm protests that are ongoing in 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: India as we record, and Matt, you know, as you 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: and I had discussed in our earlier episode, a lot 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: of people in the West are not very familiar you're 14 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: with the situation, and I think a lot of people 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: have been confused by what seemed to be competing narratives 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: about what this is, how it came about, and what 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: the protesters want. Would you agree? And that's what this 18 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: part two episode is about, going through these competing narratives. 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: If you have not listened to part one yet, we 20 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: recommend you do that first before listening to this episode 21 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: because there's a ton of info in there that you're 22 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: gonna need to have locked away before we jumping everything today. 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: We definitely had to, so much so that we we 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: spent an entire episode doing that making sure that we 25 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: also understood. Uh. Here are the facts for a quick 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: and dirty recap, um Matt. This all hinges officially on 27 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: three incredibly unpopular new laws, new acts, the farm bills, 28 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: and you and I went into detail about what those do, 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: what they're meant to do, and why so very many 30 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: people hate them. Not everybody, but a lot of people 31 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: hate them. And ironically enough, the people who don't care 32 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: for these farm bills, that people who are protesting are 33 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: the very same people that these bills, in theory are 34 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: meant to help. It's about the long and short of it, 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: I think it is. And this is where it gets 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: a little murky. It's important to know that there are 37 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: many organizations and companies, private entities that really appreciate what's 38 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: going on with these bills. There are many people, individuals, 39 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: families that are very much not okay with it. But 40 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: we also have to take into account the organizations that 41 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: are fairly large that represent many of the individuals in 42 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: this story. Yeah, because there is not just one farmer 43 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: union farmers union in India, there are many and they 44 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: don't always agree. And what we found in our previous episode, 45 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: we examined a little bit about the intention of those laws, 46 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: what the critics saw as the consequences of those laws, 47 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: the negative effects that would occur, either through incompetence or 48 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: design on the government's part. And UH, the the one 49 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,839 Speaker 1: thing you can say if first off, as we said 50 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: in last episode, thank you to all our listeners in India, 51 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: thank you to all our folks in the Indian diaspora 52 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: who wrote in to give us, to give us their 53 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: perspectives here, which are crucial. But the one thing that 54 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree on, even if you 55 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: have wildly contradicting views of the farm protest, the Modi 56 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: government was super sketchy getting this stuff passed in a 57 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: way that does not look good. That's exactly what I 58 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: wanted to say. A major takeaway should be that these 59 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: laws got pushed through quickly with very little input or 60 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: no input from the people and organizations that they affect, 61 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: at least that we're aware of, and that has been 62 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: reported in the news. And maybe there were some organizations 63 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, UH looked to for advice, but they weren't 64 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: the the farmers, right, yeah, exactly. And you know that's 65 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: a question that I was thinking about this earlier. Man. 66 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: That's that's a question that's similar to what we asked 67 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: in our episode on Davos and the Great Reset. Like, Okay, 68 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: even if you know you're let's see, your intentions are 69 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: absolutely sincere and you want to help, uh, you know, 70 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: a given population, then why is that population not in 71 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: the room when you're having these conversations about their future. 72 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: It's a very it's a very very good question. So 73 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: right now as we're recording this, we're pretty excited because 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: as we held off a lot of the juicy stuff 75 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: for for this episode specifically, I see, we just jumped 76 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: into it. If if you are also because if you're 77 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: also excited, match, we why why delay? Huh Yeah, let's 78 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: let's jump right into this thing. Let's uh, let's god, 79 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, let's whip out the old collistoni hand. 80 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: What does that mean? We'll tell you. Here's where it 81 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: gets crazy. Corruption and conspiracy. The accusations, As we mentioned earlier, 82 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: the accusations are rife. They're coming from virtually every side. 83 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: It is not hyperbolic to say, millions of folks believe 84 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: there's something they don't want you to know about these 85 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: protests and these laws. The problem is that not everyone 86 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: agrees on who exactly they are. And that's where we 87 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: get to this quite provocative claim um from members of 88 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: India's domestic media, and from members of some regional media 89 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: outlets outside of India, and from some of our fellow 90 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: listeners who wrote in to say that these protests, however 91 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: they may have began, have been co opted in a 92 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: very real way. And you know, Matt, you and I said, 93 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: we pointed out that you can find news clips of 94 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: plenty of protesters, farmers talking and interviews and saying, look, 95 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: the media is misrepresenting our cause they're lying to you 96 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: about us to discredit us. Uh, the same way that 97 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: you would see protesters from various things here in the 98 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: US say the same thing, right, there would be people 99 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: at various domestic protests saying, um, agent provocateurs are in 100 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: the crowd, right or uh or the walls in the 101 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: case of Occupy, the Wall Street run media is purposefully 102 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: trying to discredit our movement and make it seem bad, 103 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: which I think to a degree was absolutely true in 104 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: that case. Yeah, well, you really just have to follow, 105 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: follow the money, really, follow the influence of you know, 106 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: a large media organization, and what are the strings that 107 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: can pull that organization, because there are there always are 108 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: some uh, no matter how objective a media organization wants 109 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: to be. Um well except for this one, of course. 110 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: Oh boy, they've got so many They've got so many 111 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: strings in us like today, Uh today, I'm recording in 112 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: our studio, in our bunker, which is why if you're 113 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: watching this on video, I'm just sort of a float. 114 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: I'm floating in the darkness with a microphone. And the 115 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: whole reason I came in, man, is because there's a 116 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: place downstairs that makes these amazing case it is and 117 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: I was it's true. It's true. Uh, that same place 118 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: makes even better burritos. I'm just putting that out there. 119 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: I know. But you're a burrito guy, I mean, case 120 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: a guy. There's nothing there's nothing wrong with having these 121 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: differences and segue. I'm joking, of course, by the way, 122 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm I'm making light of of of the media thing. 123 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to put that out No, are you kidding? 124 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: More burritos for you, my friend? I just can't handle 125 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: like the thing is. And it depends on where you 126 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: live a course, But in the part of the US 127 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: where Matt and I reside, there's this tendency to have 128 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: these hugely over stuffed burritos. You're getting you're getting a 129 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: tortilla log right, Can you eat a whole burrito of 130 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: that size? Matt generally no, but it gives me two meals, which, hey, 131 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: if I'm going to pay for one and get to 132 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: I accept. It's true that is an advantage of the burritos. 133 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: A casey is modular, though by design. I feel like 134 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm getting us off track. I am sorry, You're absolutely right. 135 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: Let's see, uh segue. We're talking about differences, and when 136 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: we're talking about the conspiracies related to the farm protests, 137 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: what we have to remember is that we are looking 138 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: at a recent event that did not occur in a vacuum. 139 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: It is a flashpoint for some complex, at times difficult 140 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: to understand tensions and differences that already existed in some 141 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: cases for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. Uh. 142 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: And it might seem strange to say, well, these kind 143 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: of relatively dry laws that were enacted recently or were 144 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: passed recently and then suspended. What what on earth could 145 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: they have to do with these uh, very old conflicts 146 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: and resentments. It's weird because you mentioned a phrase right 147 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: before everything went crazy, that a Kalistani hand. What that 148 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: is such a cool phrase, but what does it mean? Well, 149 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to jump into it and explore it. 150 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: In the way we get into that is to talk 151 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: about some allegations that were made or a statement at 152 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: least that was made on Z News. This is an 153 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: outlet in India. There's a reporter there, suld Hear Schaudry 154 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: made the statement that the protests that are occurring right 155 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: now with the farmers protesting these bills might be cover 156 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: for something completely different. Has nothing to do actually with 157 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: the farming situation and the bills, that there might be 158 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: this thing a quote Kalistani hand powering the chaos that 159 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: is being seen in Delhi and in several other places 160 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: across India. So Kalistani hand. Let's just let's just answer it. 161 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: I feel weird. It's a cool phrasing. We want to 162 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: put it on a T shirt or something, even though 163 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: it's probably not something you want to put on a 164 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: T shirt. It just feels cool. Yeah, it might be Yeah, 165 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: we don't it might be kind of offensive. Yes. Uh. 166 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: This is another one of those things that we mentioned 167 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: in part one of this episode that is just not 168 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: going to exist for the for the most part, in 169 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:27,359 Speaker 1: the Western world's nomenclature, in in the Western world's understanding. Um, 170 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: so we have to kind of jump to history to 171 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: really really fully look at this. So the Kalistani hand 172 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: refers to a movement called the Kaliston movement, and we've 173 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: discussed a little bit of this group before. The Seek 174 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: the Sikh religion, and there's a Seek separatist initiative that 175 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: wants to create sovereign land for for seeks, for these 176 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: seeks in the Punjab region, which is one of the 177 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: regions that is heavily affected by these farming rules or 178 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: these arming laws, because there's a ton of farmland out 179 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: there and a lot of the population in Punjab, they 180 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: make a lot of their money or most of their money, 181 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: if not all of their money through farming. Yeah. So 182 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: people in the Western world I think are aware of 183 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: uh Sikhs or Sikhism and have you know, the odds 184 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: are pretty likely that you have met someone who practices 185 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 1: this religion. It was founded in the fifteen century in Punjab, 186 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: in the Punjab area of India, So it makes sense 187 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: that the geographic homeland of this religion would be the 188 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: place where uh members of the Khalistan movement would want 189 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: their new sovereign state to be. The issue is that 190 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: obviously existing states like Pakistan and India don't want to 191 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: give up land, as we said earlier, maybe listener mail 192 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: or something that's generally something that other countries are not 193 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: down to do. So the Colista movement starts kind of 194 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: in opposition to the status quo. It's been around since 195 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: at least the nineteen eighties in this modern form, but 196 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: the overall idea of creating a sovereign state for practitioners 197 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: of the Seikh religion started way like dates back to 198 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: the fall of the British Empire. And of course this 199 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: is the part where we say you can't discriminate against 200 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: an entire religion. I mean, when you get down to it, 201 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: you know, nobody's really monolithic, right, No group of people 202 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: is super monolithic. There are always going to be individual 203 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: opinions and differences in values, and so to be very clear, 204 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: it is not as though every member of the Seek 205 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: religion is calling for the creation of this new state. 206 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: But there are people who believe that SEEK separatist in 207 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: the Kalistani movement have co opted the farming protest at 208 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: some point and are pushing it, escalating it further than 209 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: it would have gone normally. And they will argue that 210 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: the farm bill itself is only a token cause of 211 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: performative flagged wave and that the real aim of the 212 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: protest is to use them as an opportunity to gain 213 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: leverage in the fight for an independent Kalistan. Now, even 214 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: if this is the first time you have heard that concept, 215 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: does it not sound a little complicated? Does that sound 216 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: a look like a little Rube Goldberg esque? Yeah, it 217 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: sounds very complicated. But there are some nuances we should 218 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: discuss here. And the first is that we may be 219 00:14:54,520 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: dealing with coinciding interests here where it may be the cause, 220 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, the farm bills, maybe the main cause to protest, 221 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: but it could also be beneficial to continue protesting into 222 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: to get leverage. It may be beneficial for that, but 223 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't see that being the reason. As 224 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: we said before, it's there. The people who are protesting 225 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: are are likely very likely going to be affected by 226 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: these bills, even if they are a part of the 227 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: Kaliston movement. So it's tough, it's tough to really pass 228 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: through what's what there um And it could also be 229 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: this is I don't want to speak too out of 230 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: turn here because I don't know all of the details, 231 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: but it could be that the farm bills are in 232 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: some way another thing that would bolster the position against 233 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: the Coalistan movement from India's perspective. I see, so it 234 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: could be seen, you know, by the Colliston movement as 235 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: like making move was against them. So I I don't 236 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: know all the details, but I can just imagine those 237 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: scenarios as well. Yeah, that's a really good point. Coinciding interest, 238 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: we do know that times of high tension can make 239 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: for strange bedfellows, right, But again, agriculture is huge in 240 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: the Punjab region. This is the origin of the religion 241 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: known as Sikhism. So these these two ideas have been 242 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: together in multiple ways for a very long time. And 243 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: we also know, like we said, opportunists can influence the 244 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: direction of pre existing movements. This happens all the time. 245 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: And just for you know, I was thinking of a 246 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: good genre of example, just so people know that we're 247 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: not being precious about the US and that we were 248 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: very aware that talking about foreign interferences is like throwing 249 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: stones from a glasshouse, as the old cliche goes, here's 250 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: a good example of how opportunists can influence pre existing movements. 251 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: Let's say you're the US and some of your biggest 252 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: companies are having problems with a place that they extract 253 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: resources or labor from in South right, or Guatemala or 254 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: South or Central America Venezuela, right, right, exactly, h and 255 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: I mean Chile. Like. Look, we can contually name a 256 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: lot of examples. But let's say that's happening, and this 257 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: business comes to you as Uncle Sam and says, hey, 258 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: we need to keep uh resource here running. And these 259 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: crazy people in this country voted for some crazy guy 260 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: who's not going to continue selling us these things for 261 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: pennies on the dollar. It's time for chase. And they 262 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: know what they would actually say, Ben, what they would say, 263 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: this guy who's in power now is evil and we 264 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: have to defeat him. He's doing the wrong stuff. They 265 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: wouldn't mention any of those details. Oh yeah, not the public. No, 266 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: in public, it's like, um, well, I'm saying the wouldn't 267 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: even mention it to the young folks that they're trying 268 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: to recruit. They would, they would ideal, they would make 269 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: it an ideological battle. Oh yeah, no, absolutely, yeah, this 270 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: is the way you do it. So say that you 271 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: want to overthrow a government and you want to put 272 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: in usually a far right dictator who will be more 273 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: uh compliant with your geopolitical or your corporate goals, usually 274 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: which will not be super great for the people who 275 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: actually live in that country. So what you do is 276 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: you go, you go and find where the domestic disputes 277 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: are already simmering. Is there an area that feels like 278 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: it could be a breakaway state? Right? Is there something 279 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: that could become a flashpoint? And in different cases in 280 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: South and Central America, Uh, this could for example, start 281 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: at a university, start in higher education, and then suddenly 282 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: a group of college kids who have been peacefully protesting, 283 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: have been very ideologically driven to one degree or another. 284 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: Suddenly someone has put a lot of gas in their tank, 285 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: and they inexplicably have some high grade weapons top Dutch 286 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: training for somewhere, and they have in now a new 287 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: and very specific plan for the revolution that usually involves 288 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: opening up trade to global corporations and so on and 289 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: so on. That is, that is like an extreme but 290 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: provable level of foreign interference. We've also seen accusations you 291 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: know of for an interference in various US based protests, 292 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: various protests in Europe and so on. The question is 293 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: could this be happening here and if it is, could 294 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: this be the result of separatist movement interfering. Could it 295 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: be the results of maybe even another country like Pakistan interfering. 296 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: We don't know. We don't know, but we know that 297 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: members of India's mainstream media have put forward this conspiracy, 298 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 1: and they put it forward in definitive terms. But the 299 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: thing is, when you talk to the farmers, they'll unequivocally say, no, 300 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: this is not the case. We're just we're literally fighting 301 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: for our livelihoods and the health and well being of 302 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: our community and our descendants. Uh. And furthermore, we are 303 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: offended by the media's spin on this. Why aren't you 304 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: reporting the real issue, which is the government is trying 305 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: to break our chances at a at living a decent life. 306 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: And we have other examples that we can point to. Hear, 307 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: because as we said August is when these bills were 308 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: put forward. In September, I believe is when they were past. 309 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: You may have to correct me on that bend, but 310 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: I think that's the timeline we're talking about. In um 311 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: So in December, there was a post made by OP 312 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: India and there's some some staff member there that made 313 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: this post and they pointed to several examples on social 314 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: media accounts that seemed to demonstrate kind of a back 315 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: and forth in messaging or at least almost an on 316 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: off messaging messaging that was occurring. So let's just talk 317 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: about what it meant. Like one day they would call 318 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: for Uhkaliston, like let's establish Kaliston. The next day they 319 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: would support farming protests. Or the next day they would 320 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: connect the two and say, you know, support Kaliston by 321 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: supporting the farming protests. And you know, I don't want 322 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: to completely discredit that and say, yeah, okay, whatever, but 323 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: there will be some people, no doubt out there that 324 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: meet that that rubric. They are they are both supporting 325 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: Kaliston and they are supporting the farming protests. Sure, we 326 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: remember how many people we were talking about there could 327 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: Lord was at one point three billion or something. You 328 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: have to imagine in that large of a number of people, 329 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: you were going to have many who support both things. 330 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm trying to imagine what would be like for me 331 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: if I was on social media, which I'm not, but 332 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: if I was on social media and I was calling 333 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: for some protests and supporting some protests but also simultaneously 334 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: supporting UH, I don't know something for Georgia to legalize it. 335 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: In Georgia legalized you know it, all of it, whatever 336 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: it is. But yeah, I don't know. I on social 337 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: media you can say whatever you want, and I get 338 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: I get that. OP India is pointing to that as like, look, 339 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: here's proof, and in some way it is proof supporting 340 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: what they believe, but it's not proof supporting the fact 341 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: that the movement has been co opted for some reason 342 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: by the Coalistan movement. Yeah, that's an important distinction. And 343 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: we also have to remember just like uh those just 344 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 1: like those amazing stories about Amazon Twitter bots, it's not 345 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: tough to fake uh an idea or a handle on 346 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Twitter and this. So yeah, there there are questions that 347 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: would need to be answered more definitively to prove this 348 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: conspiracy was the case. But We also have to point 349 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: out again context context, context. This occurs in the context 350 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: of a extremely complex relationship between the countries of India 351 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: and Pakistan. Cauling a tenses is an under statement. But 352 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: with that being said, shout out to their amazing border 353 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: opening and closing ceremonies. Just because we we all are 354 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: big fans of this clip in this ceremony, let's just 355 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: play one one second of it for anyone who hasn't 356 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: hurt it. There it is. You've got to see it, 357 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: You've gotta you've gotta check this out. I think we've 358 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before, but Matt, can 359 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: you describe a little bit of what's going on here? Sure? 360 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: I would describe this as intense posturing, uh military members 361 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: from both sides of the border there showing just how 362 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: badass they are uh and doing it, you know, in style. 363 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: That's how I would put that. UM And it really 364 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: is just yeah, it's it's it's a puffing of the chests, like, 365 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: don't mess with us, because I I can, I can 366 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: step like this. Also, we have all these weapons. Yeah, 367 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of ceremony and bravado. 368 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: They're um not clip when viral a few years ago, 369 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: but it still holds up. It's worth it's worth the 370 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: time to see because the reason there's so much ceremony 371 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: there and so much pomp and circumstance is because the 372 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: border tensions are so high between these two countries, and 373 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: so given the enmity between Pakistan and India at times, 374 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: it's not surprising that there might be some people living 375 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: in India who see these protests as a false front 376 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: meant to destabilize their own country in a way that 377 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: is somehow advantageous to Pakistan. You know, we're not saying 378 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: that everybody believes that by a long stretch, but we're 379 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: saying it is a reasonable thing for someone to to 380 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: believe that, and so that's that's part one of the problems. 381 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna pause, though, because there's another conspiracy you need 382 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: to hear about, and we'll tell you afterword from our 383 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: spawnswers and we're back, Big Moody energy man. The government 384 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: is not gonna take this line down. No, they are 385 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: not always forget they they're in a prone position, but 386 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: they don't want to be and they will not be. Yeah, 387 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: the government's not going horizontal on this one. Hey, before 388 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: we jump in with because you're I, I love this 389 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: and where we're going, I just want to point out 390 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: there just what we were kind of talking about right 391 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: before the break, just quickly, how destabilizing a country, as 392 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: we mentioned before, can be very advantageous not just to 393 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: the main or the country that's seen as your main 394 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: opponent or something, it can be advantageous to the third tier, 395 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: the fourth tier opponents. And it's difficult to know if 396 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: there's any meddling going on until you've got like a 397 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: post mortem. So I just want to leave that thought there. Yeah, Yeah, 398 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: you're right, you need the benefit of retrospect unless you're 399 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: in the room where those plans occur. We also can't 400 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: forget that there's a very tense border situation going on 401 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: right now between China and India. So there's a world where, 402 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: and this is entirely hypothetical, thankfully, there is a world 403 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: where immense destabilization in India could leave the country less 404 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: prepared to defend itself from a border grab from from 405 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: another neighboring country. So you're absolutely right. This is maybe 406 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: part of the motivation between behind what we're arbitrarily calling 407 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: Big Moody Energy so so on one side there that 408 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: people are saying, look, this farmers movement is somehow secretly 409 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: a separatist movement in disguise, ear least elements of it 410 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: are that. On the other side we see allegations of 411 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: more corruption and conspiracy as well. Critics right now are 412 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: somewhere between terrified too incredibly concerned that Prime Minister Modi 413 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: has been taking actions that they see as a path 414 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: toward authoritarianism. Big brother is um Um doing things like 415 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: stifling dissenting voices, blocking access to the Internet, and then 416 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: punishing journalists who stray too far from the allowable public discourse. 417 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: This is a big deal. We've discussed this before in 418 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: revolutionary moments, revolutionary movements. I'm taking myself back to Egypt 419 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: in the time when Twitter and the Internet really did 420 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: help to organize and fuel the the voices when there 421 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: was an uprising there in a revolution there in Egypt. Um, 422 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: and I'm imagining the response here from the Mudi government 423 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: in an attempt to stifle something like that from occurring. 424 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: You can see it as a play that the government 425 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: would do if it wanted to just stamp down on 426 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: this immediately right, prevent prevent the message from getting out 427 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: any further than it already has, and also on a 428 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: on a smaller level, prevent organizers from being able to 429 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: organize on the ground level. It's a real move. It's 430 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: a power play. If you can control the strings of 431 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: the internet. Uh, you can. You can prevent people from 432 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: from organizing very efficiently. Yeah, but it can also be 433 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: a dangerous game. Oh yeah, you know, it's it's pretty 434 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: risky because you could possibly make martyrs for a cause, 435 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: you could end up shooting yourself in the digital foot 436 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: and bringing more international attention. Right, well, yeah, I think 437 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: you're right there. I think I think you're absolutely right. 438 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: And and you know, the argument here has just given 439 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: the size of the protest that it was already on 440 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: the path, it was already too big to be suppressed. 441 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: Even even Western pop stars got involved. This is where 442 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: Rihanna shows up. She posted tweet about the protest on 443 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: February second, without recalling the specific language. It's something about 444 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: like why aren't more people talking about this? This is 445 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: a huge, reasonable question for a person to ask. But 446 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: what happened after that was pretty interesting. A lot of 447 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: celebrities who were more promody I guess who had described them. 448 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: They they hopped on Twitter and response and they were 449 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: urging unity while also denouncing outsider voices, saying that voices 450 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: from outsiders, meaning people who do not live in India, 451 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: are purposely trying to divide the country. To be clear, 452 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: I haven't I haven't spent a whole lot of time 453 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: with Rihanna, but I don't see like I don't have 454 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: an image of my head of her sort of stipiling 455 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: her fingers Monty Burns style and saying, you know, like 456 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: that's what I'll do before the next album, destabilize the 457 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: country with tweet, with one tweet, with but one tweet. 458 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: That's a real voice, folks, that's actually spot on impressions. Uh, 459 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: but you see what I'm saying, Like it's it's weird 460 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: to accuse people purposely doing that. Um and the Foreign 461 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: Ministry responded. The four Ministry of India responded in kind 462 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: of a passive aggressive way. Oh yes, they responded, though 463 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: they did not say hey Rihanna, or they didn't act 464 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: Rihanna or really just mentioned her whatsoever. This is what 465 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: they wrote. Quote. We would like to emphasize that these 466 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: protests must be seen in the context of India's democratic 467 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: ethos and polity. The temptation of sensationalist social media hashtags 468 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: and comments, especially when resorted to by celebrities and others, 469 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: is neither accurate nor responsible. To keep my name out 470 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: of your mouth. That's exactly it said. What they're saying 471 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: in a much more diplomatic way. Polity is, by by 472 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: the way, just it's addressed up word for the process 473 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: of a civil government or how how a government works. 474 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: The polity a form of government, a process of it 475 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: gotta organized society. I was telling Ben by the way 476 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: off Mike that I've never used that word in my life, 477 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: but that's that's a good one. Hey, put it in 478 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: the bank. Polity. Now you've gotten you know that I 479 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: did not. I'm trying to think when I've learned that 480 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: where it was either a song by the band Grizzly 481 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: Bear or it was or it was grad school. I 482 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: can't remember. You sure it wasn't a tweet from like 483 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Andrew w K or something. I don't know. I feel 484 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: like I'm learning a lot from tweets lately. Show Yeah, right, 485 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: we all are. Uh So that that's the thing. That's 486 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: what That's what India said in response to people, you know, 487 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: people spreading awareness of the protest and what they felt 488 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: was maybe an inaccurate or a misleading or even an 489 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: ill intentioned way. But regardless of where you stand on 490 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: the protest, there is a pattern of escalating crackdowns by 491 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: the government of India. It is undeniably real, and it 492 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: goes beyond the current protest. For example, just a little 493 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: bit earlier, a stand up comedian was thrown in jail 494 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: of on suspicion, on suspicion of making a joke that 495 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: I guess did not land the way he thought it would. 496 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: I imagine your stand up set going so poorly that 497 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: you're arrested at the end. Yeah, well, and you can 498 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: totally see it. I can. I can see a government 499 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: that's willing to shut down the Internet during a protest, 500 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: to want to shut down a dissenting voice, even if 501 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: it's just a comedian, but like making light of a 502 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: situation or making mody you or the government look bad 503 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: in a punchline. Dude, I can totally see that. It 504 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: makes me wonder. The only time when comedians are arrested 505 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: or have been arrested in the United States that I'm 506 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: aware of, were for you know, naughty language, language that 507 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to be used, concepts that weren't allowed to 508 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: be said in a similar way. But it generally hasn't 509 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: ever been to my knowledge speaking against the government unless 510 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: something some stuff happened during the Red Skier that I 511 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: just I am not aware of. Yeah, I just you know, 512 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: the thing is, I just have this image in my 513 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: head of someone really like bombing on an open mic 514 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: night and then you know, they're they're depressed, and they're 515 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: like they get off stage and they're walking over to 516 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: order just the cheapest bad beer at the bar because 517 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: part of the gig is they have to buy a 518 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: beer or something, and then someone like one of the 519 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: hecklers comes up behind the dude they flash it, they 520 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: flash a badge and they're like, hey, I told you 521 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: those puns were in crime, and boom there you're under 522 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: comedy arrest. You're right, that can seem weird an anopolis 523 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: to a lot of us listening today, But I think 524 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: you make an excellent point when you say, you know, 525 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: it's not a step too far for government that's already 526 00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: cracking down in these macro level ways detaining someone and 527 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: for some stuff they literally said for entertainment on a stage. Yeah, yeah, 528 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: it seems increasingly less implausible. And just for a little 529 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: more context here, this comedian was jailed, I think around 530 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: a month or so before he was given bail for 531 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: allegedly quote insulting Hindu gods and goddesses. So it really 532 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: is just showing I'm sorry. In my head it was 533 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: him making a punch line about the protests. No, no, no, 534 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: this is specifically just showing I guess the laws that 535 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: can be upheld for doing things like what what do 536 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: those aren't blue laws? But what do we call? Those? 537 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: Were the law where if you insult the standing religion? Um? God, 538 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: why can't I think of this word right now? Blasphemy 539 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: like a blasphemy law? Essentially, are you talking about Les 540 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: magesta whatever it's called. Maybe I don't speak French, but 541 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: it's um yeah E se dash m A j E 542 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: s T. Got it. It's it's the law that means 543 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: it's illegal to insult or threaten or defame a ruler 544 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: of a country, usually king or queen. H So like 545 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: you can't so Thailand has a law like that. You 546 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: you can't speak ill of the ruler or the air apparent. 547 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: You can't really you just shouldn't say anything you think 548 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: is off color or funny about the royal family. And 549 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: there are a lot of countries like that, you know 550 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: what I mean, where there's like where people in the 551 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: past have been punished for maybe walking on currency because 552 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: it had a picture of a ruler on it or something. 553 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: There dozens of different ways it could go. But I 554 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying here that the idea, uh, 555 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: the ideas are troubling in that they could they can 556 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: become like that right like it may even though India 557 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: is in fact the world's largest democracy, people are concerned 558 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: and it's so surprised that they're concerned that this move 559 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: toward authoritarianism will continue and that maybe you know, ultimately 560 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: and this is the worst case scenario, and personally I 561 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: don't think this will happen, but the concern is that 562 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: it could possibly lead to a situation where India is 563 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: a democracy largely in name, the same way the Democratic 564 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: People's Republic of Korea is very much not a democracy. No, no, 565 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: it's not um and it makes total sense. Yeah, yeah, 566 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: but it's kind of like, since we're getting continue food 567 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: analogies here, man, it's kind of like, what if you 568 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: and I opened a fried chicken shack and it was 569 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: called vegans. That's just the name of it. It's vegans 570 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: fried chicken, and it's not vegan whatsoever is so nothing 571 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: on the menu is vegan. It's named after we have 572 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: some complex, overly elaborate origin story about why we named 573 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: it vegans. Well, it's vegans fried chicken, and we exclusively 574 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: sell baby back ribs. Let's do it. Yes, yeah, that's perfect. 575 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: It's the only thing on the menu. Yep. Um. We 576 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: have to have a terrible not not terrible, but we 577 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: have to have a relatively obscure soda as the only drink. 578 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: Knee I guess it's only baby back ribs and knee eyes. 579 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: Those are the two things on the menu at Vegans 580 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: Fried Chicken. We don't even have water. It's just I, 581 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, I think we've got some place. I think 582 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 1: we can workshop it. I think we've got something here. 583 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: We've got some lightning in a bottle, uh, some lightning 584 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: in a bottle of knee high. But now we have 585 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: to ask ourselves beyond vegans fried chicken and looking towards 586 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: the global situation, looking toward the farm protests, in India. 587 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 1: What happens next, we'll tell you afterwards from our sponsor. 588 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: All right, we're back now. The big question is what 589 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 1: happens now. There is still a massive protest occurring in India. 590 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: There are you know, hundreds of thousands of people that 591 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: are braving cold temperatures, breathing, braving all kinds of things 592 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: to be away from their families, away from their farms, 593 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: away from their work, because they believe something, right, They 594 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,399 Speaker 1: believe that a change needs to occur, something at least 595 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: these laws need to be changed. And we talked about 596 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: the other demands as well in the previous episode, including 597 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: a lot of UH debt forgiveness essentially or these large 598 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: crazy loans that that they're demanding are being forgiven. What 599 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: happens now? This is we did We mentioned before India 600 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: is the world's largest democracy, at least on paper, no 601 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: matter what you believe about the current government. How can 602 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: this stuff stand in? How does this get resolved? Yeah, 603 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: that's the uh that's the billion dollar question, the billion 604 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,399 Speaker 1: bitcoin question. That's a lot of money. It's a lot 605 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: of money. It's not the first time, obviously, the large 606 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: protests have rocked that country in twenty nine. Not too 607 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: long ago, the Parliament of India past this bill that 608 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: gave Indian citizenship to immigrants from three different adjacent countries 609 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: as long as they were not Muslim. So this, as 610 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: you can imagine, this prompted massive demonstrations because democracies are 611 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: not supposed to practice religious discrimination in theory at least, 612 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: and the facts on the ground often don't match the 613 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: words on the on the papers of the constitutions what 614 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: have you. Still, despite the fact that large protests have occurred, 615 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: are occurring, will occur in the future. This protest in 616 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: particular could be dangerous for Prime Minister mode because if 617 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: you look at the stats we mentioned previously, farmers are 618 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: the largest voting block in the entire country, so angering 619 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: them could cost Moody a ton of votes in the 620 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: next general election, which is I go so far as 621 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: to say likely would Oh yeah, I believe so unless 622 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: there were active voters suppression efforts right, which you would 623 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 1: need to start putting in place. Now. The Modi administration, 624 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: on their part, says that there is no conspiracy of what. 625 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: Never mind the way that the bills were pushed through 626 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: for approval, Let's not talk about that. What we are doing, 627 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: in fact, is supporting farmers, supporting our fellow citizens. And 628 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: these new laws are solving a lot of problems that 629 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: farmers have told us about in the past. There'll be 630 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 1: a watershed moment. We're going to trans form India's agricultural 631 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: system in a way that would be beneficial for generations 632 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: to come there. Pretty words, but I think we've made 633 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: a pretty good case for why a lot of farmers 634 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,720 Speaker 1: don't believe that to be so. And currently India's Supreme 635 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: Court has put these laws on hold. That means, to 636 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 1: a degree the protests have met with success. The Supreme 637 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: Court ordered the ordered the creation of a mediation committee. 638 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,760 Speaker 1: It's going to be four people. They're supposed to take 639 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: all these conflicting views, these ideas, these desires and demands 640 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: and then try to come to some sort of grand compromise. 641 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: The representatives of the movements whittled down into four people. 642 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: That's those are some important folks. Well, I think that's 643 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: it won't even be all four All four slots won't 644 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: even be all protesters. Well, that's what I mean, it'll 645 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,839 Speaker 1: be probably too right right to mediate. Uh so far 646 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: leaders of the protests are not having it, and It's 647 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 1: not as if they said no, we don't we don't 648 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: like the specific structure of this specific committee. They said, no, 649 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: we don't want anyone in court appointed committee. You've got 650 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: our demands. You know what we came here to do, 651 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: so run along into it. I hear that. But like 652 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 1: in any argument or negotiation, when when one party takes 653 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: a hard line like that and is not giving whatsoever 654 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 1: or compromising you, you know, it's very difficult to come 655 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,919 Speaker 1: to a consensus. So it's I can totally see why 656 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: some people are saying the protesters and we we've only 657 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: seen this. I'm not saying this is what I believe. 658 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: Some people are saying that the protesters, or at least 659 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: the movement is being a I don't know, just uh, 660 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 1: they're being uncompromising, which could be seen as very good 661 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: but also can be seen as a negative. Because the 662 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,399 Speaker 1: government offered this mediation, right, doesn't mean it's a good move, 663 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's good for the protest movement, but it 664 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: is something. And then they offered to continue to hold 665 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: those laws for I think eighteen months in total, or 666 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: at least push it another and push it to eighteen 667 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,279 Speaker 1: months before the bills come out or are enacted. So 668 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 1: it's just like, um it just in defense a little 669 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: bit of the government. And I hate to even do that, 670 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: but I just want to make sure we're all being 671 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: fair here. Um it does up here that their attempts 672 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: being made to at least quell the anger against the government. 673 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: That's what they're attempting to do. It seems yeah, yeah, 674 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: I think that's that's a fair pointment. The other issue 675 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: on the table is that the the protesters themselves find 676 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 1: a hold unacceptable. Right. They're very explicit about their demands. 677 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: But there's another story that's going on here, which is 678 00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: that deaths are continuing. These protests have proved been to 679 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: be uh fatal for several people. As of March five, 680 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,280 Speaker 1: Al Jazeera reported that at least two hundred and forty 681 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 1: eight farmers had died through one means or another related 682 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: to the protest on the border of New Delhi alone, 683 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: where many protesters had converged. And and that's that's from 684 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: everything from like we said, the cold temperatures, automobile and 685 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:29,439 Speaker 1: other like tractor accidents, and I think some has been 686 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 1: due to violence. I just haven't I haven't actually seen 687 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 1: a bunch about the actual violence causing deaths. It's mostly been, 688 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: at least what I've been reading about, has been mostly 689 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 1: people being killed as a part of just I guess 690 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,760 Speaker 1: the number of people that are there, and it's too 691 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean, and we're talking about literally hundreds of people. 692 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: There was an article in Foreign Policy that surprised me 693 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 1: a little bit, and I know not all of our 694 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 1: listeners are going to agree with it, so we'd like 695 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Foreign Policy claims. There's another undercurrent 696 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: to the story that isn't being widely reported, which is 697 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,560 Speaker 1: they're saying that the protest yes, are the protesters are farmers, 698 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: but they're saying the leaders of the protests are actually 699 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: India's better off farmers, the people who would be considered, 700 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, the wealthier members of the agricultural industry, the 701 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: people with the largest farms and the largest incomes. And 702 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: we have we have a quote about this that I 703 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: thought was pretty eye opening. And here's that quote. Despite 704 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: what activists and Western celebrities supporting the protests would have 705 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: us believe, most of those who have been protesting the 706 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: new laws since September aren't drawn from the ranks of 707 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 1: marginalized subsistence farmers driven by debt and despair to the 708 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 1: edge of suicide. They represent instead the politically powerful and 709 00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: heavily subsidized remnants of India's traditional landlord cast. These farmers 710 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 1: fear that the laws will help large agribusiness, undermine the 711 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,880 Speaker 1: current state directed system for buying farm produce, and ultimately 712 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: lead to the dismantling of the price support system on 713 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 1: which they depend. That's interesting, man, That's a that is 714 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: honestly a perspective I had not taken into account yet. Well, 715 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,440 Speaker 1: we know a relatively small percentage of the agricultural industry 716 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: UH benefits, at least according to some statistics from the 717 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 1: Mandy system. So the allegation here that the perspective here 718 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: is that the protests are being driven by people who 719 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: are just benefiting from the status quo and seeking to 720 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: preserve that status quo, even if those new laws might 721 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: somehow be better for the general public. So it's weird 722 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: because you can see the motivation there, you know what 723 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,720 Speaker 1: I mean. And then also to your earlier excellent point 724 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:07,840 Speaker 1: about somebody being both pro Kalistan and pro UH repeal 725 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,719 Speaker 1: of these farmer laws. They they're not mutually exclusive. There 726 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 1: could be someone who is um comparatively wealthy and wants 727 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,400 Speaker 1: to preserve that old system, to preserve their own wealth, 728 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,719 Speaker 1: you know, and they could just also be at the protest. 729 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,840 Speaker 1: It's tempting to boil it down into simplistic terms, but 730 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: to do so as not really fair to ourselves, to 731 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,920 Speaker 1: the government of India, and to the many, many people 732 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:40,280 Speaker 1: who continue to protest today. We know that these allegations 733 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: of conspiracy and corruption, which are flying from pretty much 734 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: every angle right that we just looked at, we know 735 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: they're going to continue, and the world is watching. There 736 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: are hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. There's 737 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: another war that's been fought online and in the press. 738 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 1: Who controls the narrative right? Who is freestyling the story 739 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: that history will later write down. And I think that's 740 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: a very important question, because another way to put that 741 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 1: in very human terms is what is the future of 742 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 1: India's farmers? What solution, if any best, addresses this complex 743 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 1: web of concerns in a way that doesn't make one 744 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:31,440 Speaker 1: party feels swindled or suppressed. I don't know, dude, After 745 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: going through all of this, I feel like my third 746 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 1: eye got squeegeed a little bit with that foreign part 747 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,880 Speaker 1: policy article that I somehow missed in preparation. With this, 748 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:46,840 Speaker 1: I can totally see how this getting rid of the 749 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,360 Speaker 1: traditional mandy system that we discussed in part one, where 750 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 1: a farmer would have to take their produce, their crop 751 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,920 Speaker 1: to this one place and they get either the lowest 752 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,320 Speaker 1: standard price, which is pretty much what you're going to 753 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,280 Speaker 1: get the lowest the minimum price because it's standard across 754 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,680 Speaker 1: the board um or nothing really you're gonna get that 755 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: probably or nothing because you can't take it somewhere else. 756 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,920 Speaker 1: You have to take it to this one place and 757 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,800 Speaker 1: sell your crop crop at that price. It would totally 758 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: benefit the you know, the smaller farmer, maybe even farmers 759 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: that don't have major equipment like these huge tractors that 760 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,479 Speaker 1: are that you're seeing driven around all across Deli right now. 761 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,240 Speaker 1: Maybe like small family farms that have very little land 762 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: but need to be able to sell that crop for 763 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,320 Speaker 1: the highest price. Maybe crazy, but maybe it would crazily 764 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: benefit them to be able to take that to a 765 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:49,239 Speaker 1: big agribusiness corporation that's gonna buy you know, if they've 766 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 1: got good crops, are gonna buy it for a pretty 767 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: good price. That's better than that minimum, and it would 768 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,840 Speaker 1: be good for the agri business because then they're getting 769 00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: crops from all of these smaller farms. Dude, this is 770 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 1: this is blowing my mind right now, Ben, because I 771 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: could totally see there being enough influence within that cast, 772 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: that class of the you know, more wealthy farmers to 773 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 1: be able to ignite a protest like this. And that's 774 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: the thing. Yeah, you know, the reality of it is 775 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: that it is probably easier now to start a physical 776 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: protest than it has been for decades because of the 777 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:30,319 Speaker 1: way you can organize through online communication. But we want 778 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: to be very clear. We're endeavoring to present all the 779 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,520 Speaker 1: angles that we've seen. Uh and and that means we're 780 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,920 Speaker 1: presenting angles from their perspectives of people who don't agree 781 00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 1: with each other. But I was also surprised and intrigued 782 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,399 Speaker 1: to read that foreign policy piece. Uh. Now, we don't 783 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,800 Speaker 1: have the answer. You know, if you're if you're listening 784 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,680 Speaker 1: to this the end of our second part on on 785 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,640 Speaker 1: the farming protests in India, and like earlier, maybe in 786 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,640 Speaker 1: part one, about twenty minute it's in, you went, oh, 787 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,319 Speaker 1: I got it, Then write the email send it to us. 788 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,360 Speaker 1: We please forward it. You could send it just directly 789 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: to Prime Minister Modi, but I imagine that he is 790 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,800 Speaker 1: busy Prime ministering. But we do want to hear your opinion, 791 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,040 Speaker 1: not just about this and not just about you know 792 00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,680 Speaker 1: what a solution could be or what the future of 793 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,799 Speaker 1: India's agricultural sector will be. I want to hear about 794 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,080 Speaker 1: other conflicts in the world that you think are not 795 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,399 Speaker 1: getting reported, or places that you think have become hotbeds 796 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,279 Speaker 1: of allegations of conspiracy and corruption. Tell us all about it. 797 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,439 Speaker 1: We try to be very easy to find online. Yes, 798 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,239 Speaker 1: please do send it to us. We will endeavor to 799 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:50,400 Speaker 1: educate ourselves about whatever situation you present to us. To 800 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,360 Speaker 1: do one more time. I think we got one in 801 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:59,319 Speaker 1: the first episode. I don't know why. That's literally what 802 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,719 Speaker 1: we're doing every episode. Here we are. We are attempting 803 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: to educate ourselves. Please yourself. Um. Yes, you can find 804 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: us online Twitter and Facebook Where conspiracy Stuff, Instagram where 805 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff Show. If you like Facebook groups, we've got 806 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,319 Speaker 1: one of those. It's called Here's where it Gets Crazy. 807 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,400 Speaker 1: You can go on there and have discussions about every episode. 808 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,560 Speaker 1: You can present new ideas and have discussions about those. 809 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 1: You can post whatever memes. You like, pictures of your dog, 810 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,160 Speaker 1: I post the pictures of my dog. Dogs. You can 811 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,239 Speaker 1: do that whatever. It's fun and it's really cool to 812 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,400 Speaker 1: be able to have discussion with people who aren't gonna 813 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:47,320 Speaker 1: judge you. They they also are seekers of knowledge. It's 814 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,200 Speaker 1: a it's a good thing. Check it out. Here's where 815 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: it gets crazy on Facebook. If you don't want to 816 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,640 Speaker 1: do that, we have a phone number. That's right. You 817 00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 1: can give us a call any time you wish. We 818 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,480 Speaker 1: are one eight th three s T d w y 819 00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: t K. For some reason, whenever I say that, I 820 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: feel like we're doing a morning radio show and it's 821 00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,040 Speaker 1: like one three three st d w y t K 822 00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,880 Speaker 1: in the morning or something like that. Get yourself checked 823 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:22,200 Speaker 1: out right now st d w y t K and 824 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,759 Speaker 1: now and now we're back with Kevin MainMan and k so, 825 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:30,719 Speaker 1: oh what's going on in traffic? Whatever, We'll just do 826 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,440 Speaker 1: a radio So anyway, you could call us. We have 827 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,839 Speaker 1: a phone number one A three three s T d 828 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: w y t K three minutes. Those minutes are yours. 829 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,040 Speaker 1: Let us know your cool nickname you'd like to go by. 830 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 1: Let us know if it's okay to use your voice 831 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: or your story on the show, tell us what's on 832 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,840 Speaker 1: your mind, and most importantly, do not censor yourself. You know, 833 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,800 Speaker 1: edit yourself. If three minutes is not enough, we still 834 00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,600 Speaker 1: want to hear your entire idea for a topic, your 835 00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,560 Speaker 1: entire story and experience. The best way to do it 836 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,000 Speaker 1: is to write it out to us. We read every 837 00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: email we get, and you can send one to us 838 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,560 Speaker 1: right now, no matter where you are, no matter what 839 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,839 Speaker 1: time of day it is, we'd like to hear from you. 840 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 1: Send us a good old fashioned email where we are. 841 00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,640 Speaker 1: And one last thing. If you do have way too 842 00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:19,640 Speaker 1: much and you still want to send us a voicemail 843 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,759 Speaker 1: and send us a bunch of information, do what some 844 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,640 Speaker 1: of your fellow conspiracy realists have done. Send us a 845 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 1: huge email with all the info you want, and then 846 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: a short voicemail that lets us know you. Send us 847 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 1: an email that's really good. That's like hitting us on 848 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:37,919 Speaker 1: both on both sides. Okay, Our Our email addresses conspiracy 849 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:59,239 Speaker 1: at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want 850 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,600 Speaker 1: you to know is a production of I heart Radio. 851 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,239 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 852 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,200 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 853 00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,