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Speaker 1: Welcome to Mick Shots one on one. I'm the mid

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Speaker 1: part of that Mick Shots Mickey Spagnola. Glad to be

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Speaker 1: with you guys here on Dallas Cowboys dot com. And

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Speaker 1: this past week I saw a very interesting presentation on

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Speaker 1: the Black College Football Hall of Fame site and they

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Speaker 1: had a great presentation on the impact of the historically

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Speaker 1: black college and universities over the years on not only

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Speaker 1: the impact of players, but the amount of players that

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Speaker 1: they supplied to the National Football League. And going through

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Speaker 1: their Hall of Fame, I found two guys that are

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Speaker 1: joining us today to be able to talk about that

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Speaker 1: presentation and their careers at HBCU schools. No better than

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Speaker 1: my Mick SHOT's partner Everson Walls, who we haven't talked

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Speaker 1: on screen for quite some time. Bags, I miss you, man,

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Speaker 1: I miss you, and mission do your deal. And also

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Speaker 1: former Cowboys Pro Bowl linebacker Thomas Hollywood Henderson. And these

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Speaker 1: two guys are members of that Black College Football Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame. Thomas, good to have you with us, Thank you, good,

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Speaker 1: good to be seen specially now. It's good to just

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Speaker 1: have somebody else to talk to you other than my wife.

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Speaker 1: I'm probably driving her crazier. So good to have you

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Speaker 1: guys here. And Everson, you were well aware of the

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Speaker 1: presentation that the Black College Football Hall of Fame put

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Speaker 1: on last week on the website. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: awfully interesting, and you even had a partner, had had

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Speaker 1: some stuff to say on your experience there and working

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Speaker 1: with coach Rob and so I just thought we'd start

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Speaker 1: off and you guys kind of tell the story of

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Speaker 1: why you ended up at Grambling State and Thomas ended

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Speaker 1: up at Langston. Uh. You know the HBCUs schools back then,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if anybody's not familiar, if you go

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Speaker 1: back into the sixties, um, and and through some of

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Speaker 1: the seventies, Uh, there wasn't a lot of opportunities for

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Speaker 1: black athletes to go uh to colleges and universities, other

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Speaker 1: than maybe some that were in the North, but certainly

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Speaker 1: not in the South. Uh. And Everson ended up going

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Speaker 1: to Grambling State. I believe you got there sixties seven?

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Was the seventies seven? Sorry, I probably

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Speaker 1: would be dead by now that David, Yeah, it's seventy seven. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was mine. I graduated from Berlin in high school

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Speaker 1: and Richardson and I had to go to that black

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Speaker 1: college experience after growing up in Richardson, h I think

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Speaker 1: with what's going on now with the whole Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Matter thing, I think it kind of just brings up

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Speaker 1: a whole new relevance of what I went through and

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Speaker 1: what most HBCU players went through. I'm sure Hollywood probably

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Speaker 1: has even more strange stories being up in Oklahoma, but

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Speaker 1: coming from Richardson, we were part of the suburbs here

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Speaker 1: in Dallas, but the racism was still as under shaved

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Speaker 1: as it was. It's still very prevalent in our lives

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Speaker 1: at that time, and I think this is just extremely

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Speaker 1: prevalent now with what's going on, uh in society. This,

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Speaker 1: you know, this has put a whole new light to

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Speaker 1: me on all HBCU athletes and why we ended up

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Speaker 1: at HBCUs. You can, you know, talk about the way

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Speaker 1: society was at that time and well and as you

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Speaker 1: as you peeled back to fail, uh, you still having

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Speaker 1: these same problems. So I think that's what's so universal

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Speaker 1: about this. We're still having the same problems now that

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Speaker 1: myself in Hollywood and Doug Williams and all those guys

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Speaker 1: went through even back then, which is a sad part

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Speaker 1: about it, but it also it lends to the fortitude

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Speaker 1: and strength that we had to keep on pushing as

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Speaker 1: HPCU athletes. Thomas, you ended up you were from Texas,

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Speaker 1: and you ended up going, as ever soon pointed out

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Speaker 1: into Oklahoma to Langston University. And I'm not sure I

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Speaker 1: ever heard of Langston until I knew you went to college.

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Speaker 1: I up in Austin, and I went to live with

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Speaker 1: my grandmother my junior year, and because Oklahoma and Texas

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Speaker 1: or border states, I couldn't play football my junior year

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Speaker 1: if you moved to a state without your parents exactly.

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Speaker 1: So I end up nineteen seventy one, finishing high school.

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Speaker 1: Met Barry Switzer at Douglas High School. And see there

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Speaker 1: was the Vietnam War, and being drafted was in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy one. I was one egg, Like that's six weeks

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam. So I flunk geometry in Austin and had

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Speaker 1: to go to summer school to finish high school. So

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Speaker 1: colleges weren't looking at me. I'll tell you a quick story,

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Speaker 1: which tall I don't can't remember which college it was,

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Speaker 1: which Tall state? I think plane crash in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: he lost the whole football program. I write this long letter.

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Speaker 1: I say, boy, now, if I could make a football team,

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Speaker 1: I can that one, because ain't nobody left. They sent

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Speaker 1: me a Dear Jo. They sent me a Dear John.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, you know, and I go wow. So I

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Speaker 1: really was a walk on at Lunston University nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: you know, as a history would have it. I get

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Speaker 1: there on a Tuesday, the starting defensive end broke his

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Speaker 1: ankle on Wednesday. I was starting at Kentucky State up

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky that Saturday. So my career at Langston. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't even know what an HBCU was

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Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy one, but I knew there was a

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Speaker 1: college up there called Langston and they had a football team.

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Speaker 1: And I had made All City Honorable mention All States.

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Speaker 1: So they let me walk on. And my life has

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Speaker 1: been better because as I went to an HBCUUM. Barry

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Speaker 1: Switzer always says he regrets not signing me. He was

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Speaker 1: signed a boy named Rod Sholt instead. Um. But and

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Speaker 1: actually my experience for the HBCU was I sawted at

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Speaker 1: some point my junior year. I'm making all these all

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Speaker 1: America teams and all this stuff, but the scouts weren't coming,

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Speaker 1: and so I said, I'm gonna run truck. That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I'm gonna run truck. So I end up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I gotta tell you that I went to

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Speaker 1: the Kansas Relays in nineteen seventy three and I won

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Speaker 1: the Oklahoma Clegia Conference hundred yard dash and nine to six.

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Speaker 1: And I go to Kansas and I don't remember the

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Speaker 1: pouncing twins and some of these boys back in the day.

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Speaker 1: The winning time was nine two Thomas Henders and came

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Speaker 1: in dead last. Nine five pulled me. They pulled me

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Speaker 1: a tenth of a second. What size were you when

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Speaker 1: you were running bad two eighteen two seventeen sixty three.

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Speaker 1: Huh the typical track athlete. I triple jumped. I long jumped,

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Speaker 1: and um, I'd have thrown the javelins. They give me one.

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Speaker 1: So track gate you some notoriety. Uh people noticed, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think Gil Brandt and uh um texts and uh.

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Speaker 1: The rams were really high on me. They were gonna

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Speaker 1: take me the twenty fourth or twenty SECNT remember which

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Speaker 1: which picked they had tank Younger scouted me, letting himself

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Speaker 1: Grambling State. Yeah, and I, um, you know what I

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Speaker 1: do at Lenkston because there would be so few, because

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Speaker 1: it'd be one scout, one patent measure, you know, one

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Speaker 1: starting line once finished, like one guy. And I run

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Speaker 1: my butt off that first first one and I come

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Speaker 1: up and he goes, I think someone wrong my watch.

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Speaker 1: I said, what's wrong? What did you get? He's like,

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Speaker 1: I got a full fall, but I think my watches broke.

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Speaker 1: I said, well, I ain't run the move so all

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Speaker 1: the time, Everson, Uh, your experience at Grambling when you

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Speaker 1: first got there, what was your impression? You get coach

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Speaker 1: rob Eddie Robinson as their head coach, and uh, how

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Speaker 1: did that? What was your impression when you've got to

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Speaker 1: Grambling State. I tell the story all the time. My

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Speaker 1: mom drove me there. Everybody knows my mom. She was

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Speaker 1: a beautiful lady, and she was pretty, you know at

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Speaker 1: hip as they call it. You know, we're driving a

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Speaker 1: Corvette to Gramley State University. So everyone at on campus

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Speaker 1: when they first saw me and my mom and her car,

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Speaker 1: they just thought we were rich, you know, which we

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Speaker 1: surely were not growing up in Hamington Park. And so

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Speaker 1: we ended up going there and it was really a

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Speaker 1: desperate cause we were going there to see if I

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Speaker 1: could sign on with this team. I had not been

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Speaker 1: off of the scholarship. I had only been given an

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Speaker 1: invitation to the spring football game. So if you haven't

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Speaker 1: signed a player by the spring football game, most likely

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna That player is not gonna get signed.

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Speaker 1: So I was really going up there for hell, married

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Speaker 1: my mom, you know, just pleading with coach Robinson, and

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Speaker 1: we were able to get that last scholarship that was available.

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Speaker 1: So as much as people think I walked on, I

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Speaker 1: walked in, and I walked into coach Robb's office and

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Speaker 1: basically begged him to give me an opportunity. And I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure someone had renagged on a scholarship because otherwise

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Speaker 1: you just don't have scholarships like that laying around, especially

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Speaker 1: at HBCUs at the time. And so I was able

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Speaker 1: to get that last scholarship, and the opportunity came for

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Speaker 1: me to really indoctrinate myself into the system. So I

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Speaker 1: went to summer school. I was all in, you know,

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Speaker 1: that was it. If I don't get that scholarship, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what happens to me, because I needed to

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Speaker 1: go to college at that time, things which were just

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Speaker 1: pretty tough in my neighborhood, pretty tough in the city

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Speaker 1: of Dallas. I had had a history with with the

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Speaker 1: law at going through high school, so I did not

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Speaker 1: want to revisit any of those issues when my mom

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Speaker 1: was trying to use this opportunity for me to move

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Speaker 1: on out of the situation I was in. By the

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Speaker 1: grace of God, Coach Robinson was very amenable to understood

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Speaker 1: what was going on, and typically Coach Robinson, he saw

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Speaker 1: a family that needed help, He saw a mother that

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Speaker 1: needed assistance with her son, and he was there to

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Speaker 1: lend a hand. And I think he could see that

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Speaker 1: immediately when we walked into the office. I think the

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Speaker 1: desperation on our face was probably pretty pretty palpable because

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Speaker 1: he was able to be very nice to us and

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Speaker 1: and very of commandant. Was it comforting for you to

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Speaker 1: go to an HBCU at that time in your life?

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Speaker 1: To be yes, oh, dad, that's a good question, Fan,

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Speaker 1: I truly needed that. My self esteem was pretty low,

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Speaker 1: which brings out anger in most kids, and I was.

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Speaker 1: I was an angry young man, even going through Grambling

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Speaker 1: and of course playing for the cowboys as well. I

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Speaker 1: had an issue with the people that didn't agree with me,

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Speaker 1: and I needed the HBCU atmosphere to really give me

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Speaker 1: a sense of self, to learn about my people, and

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Speaker 1: to really have a lot of confidence in how I

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Speaker 1: felt about myself as a person. And by the time

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Speaker 1: I left Grammar State University, I think I was fully

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Speaker 1: armored with all the twos that I need from a

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Speaker 1: social standpoint and economically as well. Hollywood for you, so

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Speaker 1: you said you started there in seventy one, and I

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Speaker 1: pardoned for asking. But when you were in high school

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Speaker 1: in Austin where the schools already integrated them, No, they

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Speaker 1: integrated and I think seventy I had went to school,

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Speaker 1: Junior High School and University of Texas, Little Junior High, Court, University,

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Speaker 1: Junior High. We integrated it. In nineteen sixty six, Linkston

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Speaker 1: didn't have scholarships. I told him my mother made a

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Speaker 1: dollar an hour, and they said, were you you good

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Speaker 1: for the pel grant? So I went to my HBCU

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Speaker 1: four years on financial aid. Of course, you know, I

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Speaker 1: never had to pay anything, but scholarships really came along later.

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Speaker 1: I think for the black athlete, the pel grants U

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Speaker 1: were a lifesaver for HBCUs because you didn't have to

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Speaker 1: pay that back. And so being in All America. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've made All Conference a sophomore year, made All America,

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Speaker 1: my junior year, made four or five All Americas my

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Speaker 1: senior year, and I knew guys on scholarship. But I

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Speaker 1: was doing a lot better because I got access to

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Speaker 1: some money, you know, I to spend the chase. Oh

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Speaker 1: they look at They gave me a check one day

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Speaker 1: they stuck it, stuck a checking through the little thing

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Speaker 1: at at the student and it was thirteen hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: and my name was on it. She put it through

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Speaker 1: that I took it ran I cash that check. So

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Speaker 1: the next semester I come up there and are you

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Speaker 1: come in here? You're extealing this check. But but the

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Speaker 1: experience with the fraternities and the brotherhood, the bands, the

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Speaker 1: camarade with other guys, crazy people, your name, you know,

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Speaker 1: you name people and the nickname Staywood him forever you know, Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm oh man, I have to tell you all. One

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Speaker 1: story at Langston when I sort of knew I was

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Speaker 1: pretty good, but we had a thing called bulling the ring,

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Speaker 1: and that means the player gets in the middle of

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Speaker 1: list and put fifty guys around you in a circle,

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Speaker 1: and the coach will call in number, you know, twelve, fifteen.

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Speaker 1: So I was lightening people up, I mean jack and

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Speaker 1: when they came out there running at me, and finally

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Speaker 1: nobody would come. The coach would say fifteen, nobody would come, twenty,

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Speaker 1: every everybody had a number that wouldn't come. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun times um playing at length to university. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't change any part of my my college experience,

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Speaker 1: the relationships, the friendships that are still going ongoing. I'm

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Speaker 1: still friends with you know, all the guys I played

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Speaker 1: with same here. So it's a it's a pretty it's

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Speaker 1: a family affair when you go to an HBCU. And

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Speaker 1: so people will find me on Facebook all the time

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Speaker 1: and I don't know who the hell they are. Then

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Speaker 1: they remind me of something. Go ahead, go ahead, fact

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say. I was just gonna give everybody

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Speaker 1: some historical reference to back. So Thomas and I are

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Speaker 1: basically the same age. I started college in seventy one,

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Speaker 1: so we were in high school at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about segregation. I went to a high school

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Speaker 1: of about, I don't know, four thousand and twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent of the school was African American. So I just

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Speaker 1: thought that that was life, right. And so I'll tell

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Speaker 1: and I knew better, but I'm going to give you

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Speaker 1: a story of how naive I was. I was working

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Speaker 1: at the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, and this would have

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Speaker 1: been roughly forty years ago, and we were doing these

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Speaker 1: neat stories, going into these little towns and doing a

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Speaker 1: story on an athlete from there along with the town's

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Speaker 1: history and so. And I cannot remember the guy's name,

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Speaker 1: but he was a defensive player in high school and

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Speaker 1: handed up going to Michigan State be Doherty at that time,

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Speaker 1: and Thomas might remember this. He was he was coming

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Speaker 1: into the South in Mississippi and recruiting the black athletes

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Speaker 1: because they couldn't go to the schools in state, you know, LSU, Alabama, Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: Missississippi states not available to him, right, And so I'm

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Speaker 1: doing the interview and this guy telling me in high

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Speaker 1: school all the awards he got and how good he was,

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Speaker 1: and dumb me goes, you mean to tell me you

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Speaker 1: were that good. And so he's coming out of high

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Speaker 1: school and about sixty seven sixty six, right, and I go,

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Speaker 1: you were that good and like old miss and Mississippi

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Speaker 1: State didn't offer you a scholarship. He looked at me

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Speaker 1: and he goes, Son, he goes, where did you grow up?

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Speaker 1: At about time? I wanted to just crawl into the

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Speaker 1: ground to do what I had just done, He goes,

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Speaker 1: Those opportunities for people like me weren't available at that time.

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Speaker 1: And the truth because those schools really didn't integrate to

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Speaker 1: late sixties early seventies for sure. You know, as you

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Speaker 1: as you listen, as you listen to what Hollywood was

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Speaker 1: talking about and his career at Langston, you still had

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Speaker 1: different levels of HBCUs. You know, as you can tell

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Speaker 1: from from what Hollywood was talking about, Langston didn't have

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Speaker 1: many resources at all. As much as you've got Hollywood there,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty I'm sure some other great athletes that were there.

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Speaker 1: I was blessed enough to go to to really the

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Speaker 1: the the the pinnacle of HBCUs, especially when it came

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Speaker 1: to football. Grambling as much as we were known as

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Speaker 1: this this rich institution at the time, Grambling's home home

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Speaker 1: stadium only held three thousand people, and that that went

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Speaker 1: on until until the Eddie Robinson Stadium was built, so

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Speaker 1: we're talking about it maybe around two thousand. That went

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Speaker 1: on until around two thousand. So if you're gonna play

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Speaker 1: a game at Grambling, they don't even have the facilities

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Speaker 1: there to where you can set up a televised game.

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Speaker 1: So all of our games, and to me, by the

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Speaker 1: grace of Guy, all of our games were on the road.

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Speaker 1: We had eight road games a year, eight and every

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Speaker 1: time we went on the road, we would play other

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Speaker 1: teams in the biggest stadium in that state. So if

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Speaker 1: we go to play Jackson State at all Corn, then

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Speaker 1: we're gonna play where Old miss plays. We're gonna play

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Speaker 1: in their stadium. If we're gonna go to Houston, we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna play at Prairie View, or we're gonna gonna

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Speaker 1: play a Texas Southern, We're gonna play in the Astrodome

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Speaker 1: at the time. And so that's what really helped me

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Speaker 1: in regards to my growth as a person, being able

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Speaker 1: to travel to all these different places of the standards

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Speaker 1: that Coach Robinson put upon us as we traveled and

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Speaker 1: how we went to represent ourselves and our university suits

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Speaker 1: and ties everywhere you go. Uh, don't be don't step

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Speaker 1: out of line. You know we're representing Grambling. It was

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Speaker 1: all about representing our institution. And when you're doing that

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Speaker 1: eight times a year, as well as your homework and

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Speaker 1: this vow that he made to our parents that he's

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Speaker 1: gonna graduate, You're gonna graduate your sons. Uh. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was a type of responsibility that I have never

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Speaker 1: been had to adhere to ever in my life. Those

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Speaker 1: kind of responsibilities, that kind of activity, and that kind

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Speaker 1: of adhering to those kind of things were something new

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Speaker 1: for me. And it really it forces you when you

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Speaker 1: go to an HBCU. It forces you to grow up

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Speaker 1: and be more responsible, not just to yourself but to

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Speaker 1: your let's just be real, to your race into your school.

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Speaker 1: When when you guys you your football schedule. Did you

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Speaker 1: only play HBC schools or did you play some colleges

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Speaker 1: that were already integrate It depended on I remember my

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Speaker 1: rookie year. I was so mad I did not I

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Speaker 1: made every trip. Uh. My freshman year couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 1: I made every trip except for when Doug Williams and

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Speaker 1: the guys went to China and played Temple. They went

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Speaker 1: and played Temple and they left me at home. Man,

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Speaker 1: I was so hot, you know, because I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: a kid from Hamilton Park. I got a chance to

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Speaker 1: go to China, and if I'm not mistaken it with

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Speaker 1: two days to go, they made up their mind that

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Speaker 1: I could not make the trip. So they probably gave

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Speaker 1: my trip up to some professor or something that coach

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Speaker 1: coach rob knew and probably a neighbor of coach Robinsons.

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Speaker 1: But now I had to stay home and my girlfriend

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Speaker 1: Severn go to you Hollywood? Did you only you were

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00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: in AIA at that time? Was that right? Yeah? But

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00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: we were. We were in the Oklahoma Collegiate Conference, so

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00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: we we played Northeastern, Northwestern, we played Cameron, we played

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00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 1: Central State, so we we played Panhandle and and uh

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00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: so it was it was if if you were to

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Speaker 1: rate our game in nineteen seventy one, seventy two, seventy three,

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Speaker 1: we were like high school sixth a. We had a

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Speaker 1: motley crew man. But I wouldn't I wouldn't trade any

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00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: of that. Several guys, Gerard Williams, Kenneth Payne, played in

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00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: the NFL that played with me. There were year ahead

347
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,719
Speaker 1: of me, and and I got to play against them.

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00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: One was with the Skins, one was with the Green

349
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: Bay UM. But my experience at Langston UM. I worked

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00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: in the oil fields. In the off season. I would

351
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: go to Louisiana do lac Venice h Morgan City and

352
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: I work on oil rigs U for the summer of

353
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Speaker 1: seventy two and seventy three. And I was making like

354
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars a week, you know, working twelve hours

355
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: shifts and going in you know, I was on a

356
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Speaker 1: drilling rig. And and so I would come back to

357
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: Oklahoma and buy me a piece of a car, you know,

358
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: I buy a Cadillac, you know, some big piece of

359
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: you know nothing. Um. But I wouldn't trade the experience

360
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: of the life on an HBCU campus for anything. Um.

361
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, integration came when it came. Um. I even

362
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: think that I was part of the population of Dallas.

363
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: I integrated Dallas. I went everywhere in Dallas. I mean

364
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Speaker 1: I went to places I wasn't supposed to go in Dallas. Yeah,

365
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Speaker 1: and I'd walk in and sit down, I'm like, what

366
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Speaker 1: what that's bad? That's reason and the reason I asked

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Speaker 1: that question. So that presentation on the Black College Football

368
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, it was called Black College Football The

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Speaker 1: Road to Equality, and they had an interview with Deacon Jones.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh. He was given a speech and it

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Speaker 1: might have been his acceptance speech into the Black College

372
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, right, and he was talking about you know,

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Speaker 1: and this is back in he's in college and around

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00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: sixty one, I guess and uh, and you know he

375
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: was HBCU and and basically all they played was other

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00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: HBCU schools. And his quote was he said I had

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00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: to get to the pros to hit a white guy. Yeah, right,

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00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: you know what He's right. You know, that Deacon Jones

379
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: talk is the greatest talk I've ever heard about race.

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Speaker 1: That's true, Hollywood, every time they play it, it is

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Speaker 1: the deepest. You know, he integrated football like no. I mean,

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00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: you know, Dick Knight train Lane, who also went to

383
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: my high school in Austin, integrated to the Rams and Detroit.

384
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Speaker 1: But I don't think there's been a better spoken African

385
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: American on the experience of equality. And you know when

386
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: he says I had to get all the way into

387
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: the NFL to hit a white guy without getting arrested,

388
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 1: without getting arrested, you know you should play that. That

389
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: is that's very powerful. And I'm I'm very, very honor

390
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: to be in the Black College Football Hall of Fame.

391
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: As I say to my friends, I you know, I

392
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: have to make up stuff. I go, I'm in the

393
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: NFL Hall of Fame. I just came through the kitchen.

394
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: Well guess what part of this presentation that I learned?

395
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: And Everson knows this. So the Black College Football Hall

396
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: of Fames in Atlanta, but they're moving it to Canton, Ohio.

397
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: It's going to be a part of the Pro Football

398
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame campus area and they're doing it there.

399
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: So you've you've moved through the kitchen. They've they've already moved.

400
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: They already have a display in there. Yeah. Right. And

401
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: I talked to two Tall and made him laugh. I said, yeah,

402
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm in the Hall of Fame. I

403
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: came to the kitchen, but I'm in the hall. Well,

404
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, in the Cowboys. I mean, so you've got

405
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: two guys right here in the Hall of Fame, Black

406
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: College Hall of Fame along with to Tall, Jethro pu uh,

407
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: Rayfield Wright, Bob Hayes. Uh And I didn't know this one,

408
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: Timmy Newsom Winston said. And then uh, in twenty twenty

409
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: the induction class, Eric Williams has just been selected. So boys,

410
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: you know, and they've had other guys that when South

411
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: Carolina State, right, Jumy King also South Carolina State, right,

412
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: And you know Nce Norman was one of the first guys.

413
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: Uh it was what J. C. Smith College in in Charlotte,

414
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Uh So there that's one of the oldest

415
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: black colleges in the country, right right, And you know,

416
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: and he told me some great stories when he got

417
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: here and the whole lunch counter thing when Gil was

418
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: going to take him to lunch after they got here

419
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't let him in, and uh and and

420
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: and and got Jethro Pu was another guy that had

421
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: gone to HBCU. So there was a Cowboys recruited or

422
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: I should say drafted well or had guys walk in

423
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: uh for to to beyond the team. And I was, uh, yeah,

424
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: I was surprised. The other thing, I was surprised, and

425
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: I Hollywood, I had told them, uh Everson about this. Well,

426
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: there was other guys you mentioned uh Dexter Kling Skills,

427
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: Jimmy Smith, Jackson State. Remember uh Mark Washington Pedis, I said,

428
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: fedis North, Yeah, Kenneth Kenny Gant, Payson Hatcher went to

429
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: Grambling State. Mike Hegman, I mentioned what Florida A and

430
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: m right? Uh so, yeah, the Cowboys had been very

431
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: familiar bringing. But but I didn't realize was all the

432
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: very prominent players in the NFL that had gone to

433
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: HBCUs that I I didn't realize guys like Charlie Joyner

434
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: and Leroy Kelly and regular Art Shell. I had no

435
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: idea until I saw that and started going through the

436
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: live I think went to Virginia Union? Was Virginia? Was

437
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: Maryland Eastern? Did you so when you guys went to

438
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: those schools, did you know that there were other prominent

439
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: NFL players already that had gone to HBCUs. Yeah, I

440
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: had no idea. I was from Dallas, man, all I

441
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: knew big from the suburbs of Dallas. All I knew

442
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: was Cowboys. And even my father went to Prayer of

443
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: View for one year before he had to drop out.

444
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: But and he was the first in his family to

445
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: go to college period. So no, there were some things.

446
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: I there was a lot, a whole lot. I did

447
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: not know about it. But what I did come to

448
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: find out was all those HBCU players that came to

449
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, every last one of them was underpaid. You

450
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: can say what you want, the plantation mentality was still there,

451
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: even though we got opportunities that we would never give back.

452
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure Holly would love playing for the Cowboys. To

453
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: play for the Cowboys American team was amazing. But let's

454
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: be real. Gil Brant is in the Hall of Fame

455
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: right now because he was able to fire cheap labor,

456
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: is to it. Let's just be real. He knew that

457
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 1: we were cheap, and he knew we were talented, and

458
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: so he was able. And as we went through all

459
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: our careers, I don't know, probably every HBCU player had

460
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: to hold out during negotiations at least once undergo. Well,

461
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: I actually got paid because I was the number one

462
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: draft choice. Oh sorry, I was just a free energy

463
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: I'm speaking for the free agency. And then Landry named

464
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: me for the starting lineup and I held them up.

465
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean I robbed him. Uh. Gil didn't know what

466
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: to do, and I just I bought a house. I

467
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: made him buy me a house and to give me

468
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: another sign of bonus. And so we didn't make a lot,

469
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: but I, as a number one pick, I was able

470
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: to make a living. Um, you know, still grateful that

471
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: they picked me. Landry still shaking his head on why

472
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: he let them pick me. But it was an honor

473
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: and a privilege to be a cowboy. I tell the

474
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: story when Hollywood was talking about going places in Dallas

475
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: that he never should have been. I'm sitting in my

476
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 1: own living room, in my mom's house. I'm still at

477
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: Grammy Stage University, and I look up. I'm talking to

478
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: my girlfriend on the phone. I look up. Hollywood is

479
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: standing in my doorway. I had never met Hollywood in

480
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: my life, and he's in Hamilton's Park in my house,

481
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: calling some girl in my neighborhood. How he ended up

482
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: in my house to this case, I will never know. So, yes,

483
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: go on places that were surprised the heck out of you,

484
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: but no one was more surprised to see him standing

485
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: in my living room trying to call some girl. So

486
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: he didn't go visit him in my neighborhood. Hollywood, tell why,

487
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: I mean, let me tell you what I did to

488
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: Hamilton's Park was the closest I couldn't go to South Dallas.

489
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: I lived in North Dallas. But I have to tell

490
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: you what I did for the Cowboys. So it's uh

491
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: seventy maybe seventy seven. I go into the shower thing

492
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: and there was this brillo brillow whatever it was for

493
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: white hair. You know, put on put you know, make

494
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: my hair hard. And so I knew about glycering. Glycering

495
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: is what to put the Jerry curl in your hair

496
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: you want. I had hair, but you know, make your

497
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: hair shine, you know. So I went to the cowboy

498
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: locker room and raised hell. I said, I want some

499
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: afro combs, some ice, some some cake cake cake picks,

500
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: and I want some glycering in here. And Buck Buchanan

501
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: went down to Halton Park and bought up a bunch

502
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: of glycering. So I integrated the hair down cowboys. Hey,

503
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: and you know what, it's so crazy, Spats when you

504
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: think about the locker room itself, it was an entity

505
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: of its own. Not only did you have to integrate

506
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: the hair products as Hollywood was talking about. From what

507
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: I hear, Jene Fuga came in and tried to integrate

508
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: the music in the locker room. Now, the music was

509
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: all country music. And you know, when when you I

510
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: would imagine when you're in there every day all day.

511
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: After a while, it's just white noise. Nobody really cares

512
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: about what the music is. But as soon as Gene

513
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: Fuget went in with different types of music, went in

514
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: with the R and B music, the pop music, jazz, blues.

515
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: He had it all because he was a DJ at

516
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: North Texas State University called flight Time from nine to midnight.

517
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: I used to listen to him every night when I

518
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: was fourteen fifteen years old. So he tried to integrate

519
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: the locker room in regards to just music. And from

520
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: what I hear, it was an undertaking as if it

521
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: was a march on the Petway Bridge in Birmingham. I

522
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: mean it was that serious to where all of a

523
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: sudden he goes in, he starts changing the music, and

524
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: all the white guys go crazy, Hey, who's changing the music? Well,

525
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: they're gonna listen to music. We want to listen No.

526
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: So from what I hear now, I wasn't. I wasn't

527
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: there at the time, but I heard the story that

528
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: they had to have this big power out about integrating music.

529
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: So you talk about, you know, being a micro Cosmo society,

530
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: the locker room itself was always a Michael Cosmo society.

531
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: You know. One of the other things they pointed out

532
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: on that the road to your quality. They pointed out

533
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: the quality of the players that had gone to the HBCU.

534
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: And they pointed out that, you know, at one point

535
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: Walter Payton was the all time leading rusher HBCU, right

536
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: Jackson State, Jerry Rice the all time leader still in

537
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: the receptions and touchdowns HBCU Mississippi Valley State. They mentioned

538
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: Deacon Jones being defensive end and the strayhand which I

539
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: had forgotten, had gone to Texas Southern, I believe in

540
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: single season record for sacks. And they were just talking

541
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: about the quality of players they came for. And it

542
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: wasn't just you know, and I think the thing that

543
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: mcgoth grammed state that left the league and interceptions three

544
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: times as well. Right, I heard about this guy, I

545
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: heard about this guy and that list of players. You

546
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: have to have your own section right to get your

547
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: get your name out there. Right. But but and so

548
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: it appeared to me listening to these guys talk that

549
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: they all kind of made their own presentations. Not only

550
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: were they great athletes, but they they sounded like they

551
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: matured going to those schools and became prominent people in society. Also,

552
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't just in athletics. And a lot of them

553
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: were saying, well, this is what raised me, this is

554
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,959
Speaker 1: why I got where I ended up getting. Yeah. Um,

555
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: you know, I came into the Cowboys from an HBCU

556
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: and we were we were flashy, we were showoffs. We

557
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: were we talked crap, we talked, you know, and so

558
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: um Tom and Landry being conservative military background Texas background,

559
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: um he and I you know, you know, and I

560
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: had no fear. I had no sense. A matter of fact,

561
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: I didn't have enough sense to have any fear. Um.

562
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: I just loved to play football. I didn't. I hated

563
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: the politics, and I hated the racism. And the racism

564
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: was like it was so thick you could cut it. Uh.

565
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: During my time as a Dallas Cowboy, and there were

566
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: there were there, there were us and them, and that

567
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: just ain't no way to describe it. Um. And and

568
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: I fought against it. I raised hell more times than

569
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: anybody knows. And um, we won concessions, We won some

570
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: equality in the Dollars Cowboy locker room. Not because it

571
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: was me being crazy. It was because Raphael was watching,

572
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: and Jethro was watching, and two Tall was watching, and Dick,

573
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: I mean Gregory was watching, and and Benny Barnes was watching,

574
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: and Mail noticed and and and so I sort of,

575
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: you know, made myself the target. But I like to

576
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: think that, as crazy as one may think, my life was,

577
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: I played some quality football for the Dollars Cowboys and

578
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: and and in that locker room. Uh, I made a difference.

579
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: All I wanted was respect, you know. I didn't like

580
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: Jerry Tubbs coming up like this close to my face

581
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: talking to him. I pushed him. You know, you don't

582
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: I did. I had to break I hit him. I

583
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: hit him. I hit him on the sideline. He never

584
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: came up to me again. I said, don't don't do that.

585
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: Don't don't do that. You don't come right here. You

586
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: might have COVID, you know. One of the one of

587
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: the stories on that presentation, The Road to Equality, Robert Brazil.

588
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: I guess he played for the Houston I remember right

589
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: ilay with him. You did. Yeah, I was on oiler

590
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: for a little while. For a little while, and he

591
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: was talking about, uh, he had got invited to play

592
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: in the East West Shrine Game, which I guess it

593
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: was in San Francisco maybe back then. Yeah, and he

594
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: was talking about getting coming off an elevator and it

595
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 1: was a black man on an elevator and he said

596
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: the next thing he knew, there was a gun at

597
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: his head, like what are you doing there? And somebody

598
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: with the Shrine game said, well, we're gonna wait a minute.

599
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 1: He's one of our players. And he said, if somebody

600
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: hadn't spoken up for me, because I was a black

601
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: man in the sixties on an elevator, I was in trouble.

602
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of those those stories probably

603
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: getting lost because people just assume this is forty fifty

604
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: years later or everything was just fine. And Everson, you

605
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: reminded me and I was listening to it. James Harris

606
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: quarterback from he basically broke the color line for quarterbacks,

607
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: and I think one of the people were telling the

608
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: stories about him coming out of Grambling and they were

609
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: obviously no black quarterbacks in the NFL back then, and

610
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: it was like, well, we're gonna look at you as

611
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: a wide receiver or a defensive back, and I think

612
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if he said it was Eddie Robinson

613
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: or whoever. Basically told the scout he's a quarterback. Don't

614
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: look at him as anything else. And I think you

615
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: were at least familiar with him, having gone to Grambling Stake. Well, yeah,

616
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: they called him Shack, So James Shaq Hamms. I don't

617
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: know why they called him Shack, but that name is

618
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: with him to this day. I talked to him the

619
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: other day. He tells a story, of course, when he

620
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: gets to Buffalo, if I'm not mistaken, because the drafted

621
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: Buffalo first, and of course they immediately try to put

622
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: him at tight end. And so he tells a story

623
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: of they asked him to running four of your dash,

624
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: and and you know, if he would have run that

625
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 1: four of your dash at a decent time, the way

626
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: he really could have, then he probably would have been

627
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: been placed at the tight end position. He said, he

628
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: ran the slowest for to your dash you can ever

629
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: run without making it look too obvious, you know, it was.

630
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: These are the kind of things that they just become

631
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: part of our psyche, you know. And the Hollywood talks

632
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: about how what he had to go through with the Cowboys.

633
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I pretty much sounds like my career as well. As

634
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: soon as I got there, Jeene Stalins first drill, Jene

635
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: Stalins curses me out, not just curses me out and

636
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 1: calls me a boy to my face. And that's that's

637
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: been documented. You can find that video out there on

638
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: YouTube anywhere. And these are kind of things that you know,

639
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: you you want to react to, but you really can't

640
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: because you know that your career is on the line,

641
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: and so it messes with you and it stays with

642
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: you as well to where you have to take that.

643
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: It wasn't just about a coach versus player. He would

644
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: not have called a white player a boy if he

645
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: would have gotten in his face. It just wouldn't be

646
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: that type of reaction. So what you saw was you

647
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: saw what was really going on in the league, and

648
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: you saw what you had to deal with. That anger

649
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: stayed with me throughout my entire career, and it became

650
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: I became kind of like like Thomas, that locker room

651
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: lawyer as they call off. And as much as I

652
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: was mad about, you know what, however the whites treated us,

653
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: I was able to channel that that locker room lawyer attitude,

654
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: not just for the blacks, but I also tried to

655
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: champion for whites as well. If you had a negotiation

656
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: problem with the cowboys, which was that was rampant, like

657
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: like Corona itself, with the cowboy locker room, you were

658
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: always going to have a negotiation problem. Even Randy White

659
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 1: had to hold out for the cowboys fags. I don't

660
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: know if you were there then, but I was. That

661
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 1: was my first year. If you recall, we all had

662
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: our fifty four towers on. We had fifty four written

663
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: somewhere on our uniforms because we want to show that

664
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: it wasn't just a black white thing, it's a cowboy thing.

665
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: And that's what we tried to have permeated throughout the

666
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: entire locker room. But that was on the heels of

667
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: how management really treated I thought treated the HBCU players

668
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: throughout my entire career there. So being that locker room

669
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: lawyer as much as you might be fighting and a

670
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: champion for the cause, that's a great deal. But it's

671
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna happen to you like it happened to

672
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 1: Hollywood and myself. They're gonna ship you out of there,

673
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: and I gonna ta in that locker room for your

674
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: whole career. Just about it. I since you mentioned Randy White,

675
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: people don't know the story. But in seventy seven, which

676
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: would been my third year as a cowboy, Randy White

677
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: and I competed for the starting position a strong side linebacker.

678
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: And we went through all the training camp and and

679
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I was clowning him. You know,

680
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm at that covering the tight end. And said, this,

681
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: how you do it? Randy? You look too big on me,

682
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: You look tight, You look tight. You can't so so

683
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: so this is Landry. So obviously I beat him out.

684
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: I beat m anyway out. They put him in tackle,

685
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: but they wanted him to play the strong side linebacker.

686
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: So instead of Landry giving me my victory, I still

687
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: hold a resentment about this. He said to me, Okay,

688
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: now you and Hegman are going to compete for the job.

689
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: And when I beat Hegman out, Jerry Tubbs comes to

690
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: me in the locker room and just whispered to me.

691
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: He said it was real close. I mean, it just

692
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: couldn't give me the benefit of the doubt. You know,

693
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm a pro bowler, I'm an all pro. I don't

694
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: give a damn who voted otherwise. I was a great player,

695
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: and you can't take that away from me, not quietly,

696
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: not with a whisper. I am great. You can't take mine.

697
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: Even you were talking about negotiations. Even Rod had a

698
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: hard time getting time. And I don't know if this

699
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: happened after when you got there or was early seventies,

700
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: but he he'll tell the story about how he was

701
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: trying to get in to talk to Texts about his

702
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: contract and they kept stalling, and he was waiting in

703
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: the in the old tower right out the central uh

704
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: and his administrative assistant, Yeah, Tex will be with you,

705
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: and he said, I waited and waited and waited, and

706
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: finally it was like, Hi, I know what's going on.

707
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: And evidently there was kind of a ledge, kind of

708
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 1: a walkway outside the window. It was like seven stories

709
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: high or whatever, and he climbed out the window and

710
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: jumped in front of Texts, who was sitting on his

711
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: desk with his feet up, and all of a sudden

712
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: he sees his quarterback out on the left, seven stories high.

713
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: I said to get in. He goes, you're there, right?

714
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: I got Yeah, I got paid. I finally am I

715
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: my second contract with the kill Boys, I got a

716
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: house out of it, some money and double my salary'll

717
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: become a starter. I wasn't going to play that first game.

718
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: After they naming the starter, I had power and I

719
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: went into Guil and said, this is what I want

720
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: and they gave it to me. Now, I thought Danny

721
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: White had funny story about negotiations. So when you were there,

722
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: Danny ended up being the PUNTERO. Yeah, back up, quarterback, backup.

723
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: But he was the punter the whole time. And then

724
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: when he came the starter in eighty, they kept him

725
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: as the punter, right, And so he said the next

726
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: year he went to Gill and said, Bill, you know,

727
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: you think I get a little extras. You know, I'm

728
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: the starting quarterback, but I'm also punny. And He'll would

729
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: tell him, I don't worry, You're not going to punt.

730
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: He goes, We'll find another punter, and he's in. I funny.

731
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: This went on for like two years, and so he

732
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: said the third year, I went in and I said, look,

733
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm still the quarterback and I'm still funny, and yeah,

734
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: he probably have to talk to Tom about that. He

735
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: goes in and lays his case out to Landry right,

736
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: and Landry looked at him and they go and he said,

737
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, Danny, most players in this league, boy, the

738
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: more they can do for the team, they're glad to

739
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: do it. And he goes, I had nothing to come back.

740
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: I just out the door and gave up. Yeah, the Cowboys,

741
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: the cowboy I called him the three headed monster. Between texts,

742
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: Tom and Gil, they had their act together. Man, they

743
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: knew how to work you over. You know, they knew

744
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: the worst to say. By the time I came along, man,

745
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: they were they were adept head you know, kind of

746
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: stalling and negotiations and things of that nature. They became

747
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: very prolific and trying to get the most out of

748
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: you for the least amount of months. I have to

749
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: tell you one, I got one good story. I got

750
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: one good story. I never had the chance to play

751
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: against Grambling. I really wanted to. And so I was

752
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: rookie with the Dallas Cowboys, and I looked up and

753
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: Langston was on Grambling schedule. And so I went to

754
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: bed that night. Man, I woke up that morning. I

755
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: called my coach at Langston. I go, how did it go?

756
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: How did it go? He said, Well, he said, we

757
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: kicked off in all hell broke loose, maybe the sixty

758
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: eighth or nothing of something. I was in that game.

759
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: I was in that game. I got a reception that game. Yeah,

760
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: you guys were like a preview of HBCU. They were

761
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: like six A five eight, Yeah, like five We love.

762
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: We had a good time going up there. I must say. Uh,

763
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: the Lanston fans were amazing. They were cheering for us, Hollywood,

764
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: all of you. Yeah, yeah, but they cheered for us.

765
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 1: They didn't cheer for you. Guy. Yeah we were We

766
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: went eleven and oh and seventy three, and so that

767
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 1: was sort of the greatest season in Lankston's history. So

768
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: I claim I'm pretty close about fifty four sacks my

769
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: junior year. One year, you mean one year, one year

770
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: all my tackle your junior year, but you mean one year,

771
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: one year. Everybody else make any tackles. Yeah yeah, but

772
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: they just they just I had two jobs at Lanston,

773
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: Contain and Gold, and so the contain was first and goal.

774
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: So I was everywhere I was in the secondary. I

775
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: was everywhere when I was when I was working at

776
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, so we obviously covered the

777
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 1: swack with all the school the HBCUs schools in in Mississippi,

778
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: and I had just left to come to Dallas, but

779
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: they were getting ready to have this huge game. Uh,

780
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: unbeaten Mississippi Valley stayed again unbeaten Elkhorn State. I don't

781
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: know if you guys remember this. They ended up they

782
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: were supposed to play the game at Elkhorn and they

783
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: ended up saying no, it was too popular. They ended

784
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: up playing at Mississippi Memorial Stadium. Sold it out sixty

785
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: three thousand people. Yes, And the station in Jackson actually

786
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: the day before finally got the okay to televise the game.

787
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: So that would have been Willie Totton and Jerry Rice

788
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 1: at Valley State that was coached by Archie Cooley, whose

789
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: nickname was the Gunslinger. Right, so this is eighty four.

790
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: And then at Alcorn it was Marino Cassim. He was

791
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: known as the Godfather. So the paper I was working

792
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: for they wanted to promote the game and it was

793
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: like during the week, so they had the Gunslinger and

794
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: the Godfather. They showed profiles of each guy. And you

795
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: couldn't do this today, right, it's so politically and correct

796
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: from and they each had had a pistol in their

797
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: hand and they were like blowing the end of the

798
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: basic to each other. Those coaches probably loved doing that.

799
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: They didn't see anything anything for or anything to get

800
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: some publicity. Right. Elkhorn ended up winning the game, uh,

801
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 1: forty two twenty eight. And you'll get a kick out

802
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: of this. The guy that made the interception for Elkhorn

803
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: to seal the game, I could wow. Isaac Hool ended

804
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: up playing for the Cowboys. You walker trade, Yeah, but

805
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: it was it was huge and and and then I

806
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: I understood the you know the value of those games

807
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: and those institutes. Those coaches were great, They were just wonderful.

808
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: I have to stay spans. I have played in many

809
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: what we call classics, and uh that was that was

810
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: the norm. We sold out everywhere Yankee Stadium. You can

811
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: go back and look at the James Shack Harris game

812
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: versus h I think it was Morgan State at the time.

813
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: They would. I read it in a book that they

814
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: had maybe four HBCU Hall of Famers in that game

815
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: and probably four NFL Hall of Famers ended up coming

816
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: from that game. Back in nineteen sixty nine, James Shack

817
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: Harris tells the story in Hollywood would love this. You know,

818
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: we're all country boys. They were all country boys that

819
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: have never been on a plane before back in sixty

820
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 1: eight sixty nine. And so these guys Rob hasn't wearing suits.

821
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: They're probably hot. The suits are probably too too small

822
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: because they probably never wore them. So they get on

823
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: a plane and these guys have never flown before. At

824
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: the plane as the plane takes off, these big guys

825
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: are trying to find a way to roll the window down.

826
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man, but that's classic. You know, it's classic.

827
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 1: You know HBC players back in sixty nine, they're groundbreakers.

828
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: But of course we had to do it in a

829
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: comical fashion. Shack Havs has some of the best stories

830
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: that you ever want to hear, and to me, that's

831
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: one of the better ones. But it allowed us as

832
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: as young men to really develop mentally and physically, to

833
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: grow up and to be you know, citizens of the

834
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: United States, and in a good way to where you know,

835
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: we tried to contribute as much as we could, more

836
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: than just being on the field. I mean, that's pretty

837
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: much the monarch of everyone that I know that went

838
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: to an HBCU They made a difference, not just before

839
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 1: they went to Grambling, but continue to make a difference

840
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: after we left left our HBCUs. One of the contributors

841
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: to the Black College Hall of Football Hall of Fame

842
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: is Doug william and you would have frost passed with

843
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: him at Grambling one year. I was there when he

844
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: was going for the Higsman. I saw it all like

845
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: it was like watching Michael Jordan and cleats. That's how

846
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: good he was. And then he ends up being the

847
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl. Did you

848
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: ever get to play against him from Hollywood? I didn't know. No,

849
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: I'm old, You're old, that's right. I didn't know how

850
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: if he had gotten there early enough. But yeah, you

851
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't a cross paths. But did you understand how good

852
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: he was? He was a big contributor to the Hall

853
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: of Fame too, But did you realize how good he was? Everson?

854
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: I mean you said the black Michael, There's not about it.

855
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: I actually played against a couple of times in the pros,

856
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 1: and man took me a lot to trying to keep

857
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: him from trying to teast me because he was coming

858
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: at me big time. I have some of you know

859
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 1: how because you have some of your better games against

860
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: some of your former teammates, But you know that was

861
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: that was as important. Doug's senior year going for the

862
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: Heisman was as important to HBCUs as take Younger being

863
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: drafted by the Rams way back in the day. That's

864
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: just how impactful it was on everything that HBCU players

865
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: did after that, and then as it even continued as

866
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: he went to the Super Bowl. You know, he was

867
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: such an odd of ty to to all of the

868
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: reporters there, even after playing over what nine ten years

869
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: of the league. You have these crazy questions and press

870
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: conferences asking him how long has he been a black collegue?

871
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: Has he been a black quarterback? You know, they didn't

872
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: know what to ask him at the press conference, and

873
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: thinks that nature and when you look at not just

874
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: Shack story because Shock and Dug to me or go

875
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: hand in hand in regards to bringing the Noli riding

876
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: to HBCUs. But if you look at what Doug and

877
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: Shock had to go through from being HBCUs, I don't

878
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: know how they still have their sanity because that would

879
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: have really it would have been something that would still

880
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: be eating away of me even more than it is today.

881
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: And if you meet these two men, and I'm sure

882
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: you have stags you would, you can you can see

883
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: you can just see the royalty in what they're doing.

884
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: You can see how not only are they understated, but

885
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: they're still very ambitious in regards to what HBCUs deserve.

886
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: That's why we have that. That's so small exhibition there

887
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: at h at the Hall of Fame right now in Canton,

888
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: but it's only going to be bigger. It's going to

889
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: be around I think thirty plus thousand square feet or

890
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: something of that nature. Right now. Right now, it's no

891
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: bigger than my den. Okay, that's what it looks like

892
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: right now. But it's going to be amazing when it's finished.

893
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: And that's simply because mister Baker with the Hall of

894
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: Fame and Shack and Doug have all been in unison

895
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: in regards to bringing more nor Voety to HBC play.

896
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: I also want to want to mention that I got

897
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: a great education at my HBCU. I had to stay eligible,

898
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: I had to have a certain great point everything, and

899
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm here to report I am a college graduate from

900
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: Lankston University and I have an honorary doctorate from university.

901
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: Well that's because I gave him a lot of money. Hey,

902
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: you can get it baby anyway, you guys, I think

903
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: on that note, with those two comments, I just want

904
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: to thank you very much, and I want to encourage

905
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: the people that have listened to us or to go

906
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: to the Black College Football Hall of Fame and check

907
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: out the presentation on the road deal quality and just

908
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: go through and see the guys that have been inducted.

909
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: I think I saw in that College Football Hall of

910
00:59:55,040 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: Fame thirty one of those inductees had been HBCU athletes.

911
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: It's really enlightening, especially at this day and age. So

912
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: I want to thank you guys completely. I know we've

913
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: taken up your time, but the stories were great, and

914
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: I hope that everybody that gives everybody some sort of

915
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: context to history and what's gone through and how far

916
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: football has come. And it's probably not all the way

917
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: there yet, but the NFL has made a lot of

918
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,439
Speaker 1: progress since probably nineteen sixty. So, Hollywood, thanks very much

919
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: for just Everson. We'll get going on mix shots here

920
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, hopefully when the Cowboys crank things up,

921
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:43,439
Speaker 1: get everybody tested and in building safetally right, so we'll

922
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: get back going on Dallas Cowboys dot com. I'm Mickey

923
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: Spagnola and that's mix shots one on one. See you guys,