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Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club.

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Speaker 2: Morning, everybody is tej n V. Charlamagne the guy. We

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Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in

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Speaker 2: the building. Yes, indeed got the brother Mark Lamont Hill.

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Speaker 1: Morning morning, y'all. Now, last hour we had Jonathan Green

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Speaker 1: Black here, the head of the ad L, and you know,

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Speaker 1: of course he's he's I would say pro Israel, that's

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Speaker 1: safe to say.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yes.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Mark, I was thinking about all the

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Speaker 1: people that I know who've been to Israel, been to Pakistan,

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Speaker 1: who've been speaking about this issue.

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Speaker 4: For a long time, for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Marcus Mark has not only just been one of them,

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Speaker 1: Marcus taking bullets, you know, for speaking out and being

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Speaker 1: pro Palestine. Yeah, so what did you think that too

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Speaker 1: broad a question?

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Speaker 3: I'll say one thing. There's some points where.

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Speaker 2: Before we go that can we can you detail people

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Speaker 2: of what's going on there from your view because you

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Speaker 2: were there, Get to that let and then you can

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Speaker 2: talk about that so people can understand it first, because

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Speaker 2: you might not know this is a new hour, they

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Speaker 2: might not know what's going on.

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Speaker 3: They connectcause John, I think, is replying to.

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Speaker 1: The events that have taken place in Israel and in

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Speaker 1: Gaza over the last week or two. And I think

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Speaker 1: where he and I agree one hundred percent is that

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Speaker 1: this is an awful and unprecedented tragedy. There's no way

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Speaker 1: to even wrap your mind fully around what it means

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Speaker 1: for over a thousand people to be killed. Correct, the

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Speaker 1: attacks that happened in Israel were devastating. As someone who

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Speaker 1: believes in justice, and as someone who believes in human rights,

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Speaker 1: and as someone who believes that international law and rules

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Speaker 1: of war have to be followed, I would say, and

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking for me and lots of other people, I'm

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Speaker 1: almost representing my opinion right now that Hamas's attack was

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Speaker 1: a violation of international law. As an organization rooted in

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Speaker 1: Islamic principles, it's also violation of religious law to attack civilians,

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Speaker 1: to attack innocence, even in times of war. If I

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Speaker 1: took the law off the table, just basic decency, I

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Speaker 1: would say, this is awful.

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Speaker 3: So we agree on that.

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Speaker 1: Where we disagree very quickly is how we make sense

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Speaker 1: of how we got here and what we do moving forward.

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Speaker 1: History didn't start on October seven, and oftentimes we see

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Speaker 1: this in the United States when a target gets blown

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Speaker 1: up or set on fire, or a police car gets

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Speaker 1: slipped over or whatever, whether we agree or disagree with

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Speaker 1: the action. At that moment, the media starts to say,

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Speaker 1: look at these animals, look at these savages. I can't

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Speaker 1: believe they did that. And if you were to come

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Speaker 1: up from another planet and watch this, you would think

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Speaker 1: that history started on ferguson the night that shit got

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Speaker 1: set on fire. You would think that the world just

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Speaker 1: started at these moments, when in fact, there's a long

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Speaker 1: history that gets you there. Israel has been in apartheid

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Speaker 1: state since nineteen forty eight years, yes, years. It has

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Speaker 1: been an occupying power since nineteen sixty seven, right, fifty

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Speaker 1: six years, yeah, and it has been. It has held

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Speaker 1: the guys in people in particular, under siege since two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six, seventeen years going on eighteen in January.

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Speaker 1: So these are the things that get you there. And

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Speaker 1: the people of Gaza are catching hell. This isn't ordinary, Hell,

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Speaker 1: this isn't normal. Just inequality. We're talking about not having

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Speaker 1: access to clean water, We're a potable water right, not

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Speaker 1: having access to schools, being constantly under siege, where you're

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Speaker 1: getting bombs, you're getting shot at, you're vulnerable to premature

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Speaker 1: death every single day. This is what they're dealing with

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Speaker 1: for the last seventeen years. And so when Hamaz emerges

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Speaker 1: and engages in this activince, which is not excusable because

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Speaker 1: I don't want everybody say he's trying to excuse me.

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Speaker 1: I'm not excusing me. I'm saying it's inexcusable, right, But

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Speaker 1: we have to understand where it starts. And when you

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Speaker 1: put people in an open air prison, which is what

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Speaker 1: Gaza is, it's an open air prison, you have to

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Speaker 1: expect people to respond at some point. So whose fault

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Speaker 1: is the condition, guys in? Is it Hamas? Because that

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Speaker 1: hasn't Hama's been in control since six Hamasa. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's the right question, right, And what Jonathan would say,

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Speaker 1: what a lot of pro israel folk would say, is well,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the Jewish settlers left in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, and Hamas took over in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: and therefore, whatever happens, that's on y'all. Problem is Pilotitians

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Speaker 1: have not had one minute, not one minute of self

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Speaker 1: determination in those seventeen years. In other words, yeah, they left.

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Speaker 1: It would be like if you were in a prison,

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Speaker 1: and they say, Okay, all the guards left, but you're

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Speaker 1: still in prison. We're still on the border of the prison.

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Speaker 1: You still can't get out of the prison, right you

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Speaker 1: STI don't have any more food, and we control it,

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Speaker 1: right God. Israel controls Gaza by land, by air, and

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Speaker 1: by sea. It controls the population registry, It controls the

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic sphere. It controls everything that goes in and everything

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Speaker 1: that goes out. It is military. It is effectively controlling

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Speaker 1: or effectively occupying Gaza, just from the outside. And so, no,

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Speaker 1: they haven't had an opportunity for self determination. They haven't

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Speaker 1: had an opportunity to build. They are under occupation in

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Speaker 1: a different way, but the same as the people in

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Speaker 1: the West Bank. And so it is a very very

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Speaker 1: very different situation. That's not to say that Hamas is perfect.

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Speaker 1: There are lots of stuff about Hamas I disagree with.

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Speaker 1: I disagree with religious rule in general. And Hamass is

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Speaker 1: rooted again. They come from as As Jonathan accurately said.

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Speaker 1: Their roots are in the Islamic Brotherhood of Egypt, and

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Speaker 1: they do have a vision of freedom that is rooted

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Speaker 1: in Islamic principles. I happen to disagree with with religious governments.

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Speaker 1: I agree with that. There's other critics that have this

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Speaker 1: critice to have every government, but it's important to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that Hamas is a government, and you can't have it

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Speaker 1: both ways. Sometimes they'll say, well, Hamas is a terrorist organization.

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Speaker 1: You can't talk to them, you can't deal with them,

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Speaker 1: you can't do this, you can't do this, and that

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Speaker 1: kind of language makes it impossible to have a diplomatic

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Speaker 1: or political solution. They make it seem as if the

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Speaker 1: only thing you can do is blow them up because

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Speaker 1: they're not a government.

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Speaker 3: They're not a government.

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Speaker 1: I wondered about that too when it comes to Hamas,

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Speaker 1: because you know, they say they're a government, but their

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Speaker 1: charter just says they want to destroy Israel and kill

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Speaker 1: Jewish people. So it's like, can you negotiate with somebody

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Speaker 1: if that's literally your charter. That's that's an interesting question.

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Speaker 1: A couple of things. Hamas starts in nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: As again, Jonathan said that accurately, they started in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty seven as a nationalist group. Their goal was the

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Speaker 1: liberation of the entire land of Palestine. At some point

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Speaker 1: they got to a space where they wanted to also

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Speaker 1: be involved in politics. So nineteen eighty seven is a

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Speaker 1: very different moment than two thousand and five, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six when they ran in these elections, when they

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Speaker 1: ran apart in these elections against Fatah. At that moment,

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Speaker 1: their goal was still a free Palestine that for them

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Speaker 1: meant getting rid of what they call design escentity, didn't

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Speaker 1: mean a certain kind of vision of freedom that did

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Speaker 1: not include the state of Israel as a Jewish state. Right.

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Speaker 1: But Hamas over time was willing to have a unity

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Speaker 1: government with the Palestinian authority, with the FACTA in particular.

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Speaker 1: They were willing to engage in diplomatic relations. And it's

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Speaker 1: dishonest to suggest that they haven't been engaged in Israel,

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Speaker 1: that we can't talk to them the guys. If Israel

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Speaker 1: want to blow up all of Hamas and all the guys,

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Speaker 1: that they could have already done that, right. But they've

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Speaker 1: always worked with They've always worked with Hamas, They've always

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Speaker 1: worked with them since two thousand and six to keep

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Speaker 1: the perimeters steady because they don't want instability. They don't

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Speaker 1: want five or six groups fighting, right, So they've always

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Speaker 1: negotiated with Jimas so it's sort of designed to say

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Speaker 1: that we just can't talk to them. I understand the

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Speaker 1: concern that Hamas's vision of a solution for the political

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Speaker 1: issue is different than israels solution for the political issues

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Speaker 1: was different than the other party solution for the political issues.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, But they are democratically elected government, and they

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Speaker 1: have a right as a democratically elected government to.

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Speaker 3: To negotiate and to have a worldview. And Israels are

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Speaker 3: right to.

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Speaker 1: Have theirs, but you can't undermine them as a government

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Speaker 1: even if we disagree with them. I might say that

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Speaker 1: thing that happened on October seventh was an act of

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Speaker 1: terrorism inexcusable. I would say that, I am saying that,

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Speaker 1: But that does not mean that it's impossible to have

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Speaker 1: a diplomatic or political solution to this problem. We cannot

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Speaker 1: pretend that the only way to solve this issue is

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Speaker 1: to just blow everything up and to just kill everybody.

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Speaker 4: Let me ask you a question. Now, you did say

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Speaker 4: their attack was not.

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Speaker 1: By the rules right of war in neither Israel's right.

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Speaker 2: So now with Israel talking and I guess sending flies

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Speaker 2: and pamphlets out and says, you know, we're giving you

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Speaker 2: twenty four to forty eight hours to leave Gaza. We're

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Speaker 2: going to start bombing Gaza. And I heard this morning

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Speaker 2: on the news that said, you know, the hospitals are saying,

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Speaker 2: we can't get out. We can't get these people out

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Speaker 2: because by the time we try to get them out,

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Speaker 2: they will die.

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Speaker 1: Right yep.

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Speaker 4: So, if let's say.

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Speaker 2: Hamas is not following the rules, a lot of people say, well,

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Speaker 2: why shit Israel followed the rules.

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Speaker 1: Well, if we followed. The problem is if we follow

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Speaker 1: that logic down, Let's say I can see both of

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Speaker 1: those points. I don't, but let's say I did, right,

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Speaker 1: then I could say, well, hamaskus say, well, we didn't

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Speaker 1: have to play by the rules because Israel had u

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Speaker 1: under Leegal occupation for since nineteen sixty seven. They we've

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Speaker 1: been underseased since nineteen Since since nineteen we've been underseased.

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Speaker 3: In two thousand and six seven.

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Speaker 1: We've been we've been literally since nineteen forty kicked out

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Speaker 1: of our homes, all the violations of international law. A

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Speaker 1: right to return is international law. Palestinians can't go back

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Speaker 1: to their homes. They were ethnically cleansing in nineteen forty

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Speaker 1: eight in the neckba right and somebody in the in

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Speaker 1: the Israel Kannessed, which is basically the Congress, said we

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Speaker 1: would to have another nekba right now. So that's a

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Speaker 1: violation of international laws. The target and civilians, the refusal

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Speaker 1: to provide certain supplies as an occupying power as a

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Speaker 1: violation of international laws right now. Collectively punishing all Palestinians

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Speaker 1: for the act of Hamas is a gross violation of

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Speaker 1: international law and rules of war. Forced transfer of people

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Speaker 1: from one place to another, expulsion is a violation of

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Speaker 1: the rules of war. And even Jonathan is saying they

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Speaker 1: would have a humanitarian corridor in the Egypt side of

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Speaker 1: their country. That is another neck But that's exactly what happened,

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Speaker 1: and how you got refugees before the planners that can

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Speaker 1: put them out, it's not to bring them back. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the ideas to say that, well, yeah, Israel shouldn't play

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Speaker 1: bout us because Hamas doesn't know if you play that game,

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Speaker 1: the original rule breaker is Israel by international law and

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Speaker 1: by all historical standards, so they don't they don't play

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Speaker 1: that game. But I don't think we should play that game.

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Speaker 1: I think at all moments we should do the most ethical,

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Speaker 1: the most just, the most fair, the most humane thing

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Speaker 1: that is possible, and that right now is a ceasefire.

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Speaker 1: That right now is a return of all hostages. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking to Hamas now right a return of all hostage

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Speaker 1: from Jimas. It's it's stopping all violence right and it's

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Speaker 1: coming up with a political solution that allows Palestinians to

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Speaker 1: stay in their home. It is not yelling out as

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Speaker 1: members of the Israeli government have said, We're going to

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Speaker 1: shrink the size of Gaza because you can't. You can't

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Speaker 1: start a war with Israel and leave with the same

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Speaker 1: mind of land that you started with. Taking land by

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Speaker 1: force is a violation of international law, occupying occupying land

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Speaker 1: since nineteen sixty seven, violation right, I mean everything here,

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Speaker 1: violation eighteen. Human rights organizations before all it started agreed,

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Speaker 1: including Israeli human rights organizations like Bett Sellem, agreed that

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Speaker 1: Israel isn't a Partheight state and it's been in Apartheight state.

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Speaker 1: So somehow the global community standing up and being outraged

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Speaker 1: at what happened in Israel, that makes sense to me.

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Speaker 1: But what doesn't make sense to me is how we

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Speaker 1: weren't outraged the day before when these things were happened

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Speaker 1: to Palestinian people, and for the last seventy five years

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Speaker 1: they've been happening to Palestinian people. And it doesn't make

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Speaker 1: sense to me why right now we're not equally disgusted

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Speaker 1: that over seven hundred at this point, I think it's

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Speaker 1: even eight hundred Palestinian children have been killed in the

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Speaker 1: last week. We changed the whole world for Ukraine and

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Speaker 1: Russia killed about four u and fifty of those children

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Speaker 1: over course of a whole year.

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Speaker 2: What is your thoughts with the US, you know, bringing

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Speaker 2: the largest aircraft carrier a ship out to show support

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Speaker 2: of Israel.

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Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on that which you're saying?

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Speaker 2: But the all the thing is, nobody said anything beforehand,

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Speaker 2: but now it seems like they're getting support of the US.

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Speaker 4: Whatich you're thought?

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Speaker 1: Right? And part of the problem is a lot of

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Speaker 1: us were right. Three point six or three point eight

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Speaker 1: billion dollars a year agoes from the United States to Israel.

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Speaker 1: We fund the occupation and that's why mereause, if y'all

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Speaker 1: wonder why you should care, because you pay for it. Right,

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Speaker 1: this could not happen without anybody else's help, but the US,

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Speaker 1: the US has offered weapons. They've offered weapons to make

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Speaker 1: sure that israelways has the best weapons. They call a

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Speaker 1: qualitative edge. They've made sure that technologies come through. We

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Speaker 1: support this thing. What the US is doing right now

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Speaker 1: with the aircraft carrier is a very small drop in

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Speaker 1: the bucket compared to what the US has done, not

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Speaker 1: since nineteen forty eight, but certainly since the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: and nineteen really the nineteen seventies with regard to support

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Speaker 1: for Israel. And that's the thing we should.

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Speaker 3: Be outraged about.

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Speaker 1: We should be outraged at Biden's response. We should be

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Speaker 1: outraged about many members of the US Congress's response. We

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Speaker 1: should be outraged by lots of people. Again, you should

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Speaker 1: have been outraged when those innocent Israeli children were killed.

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Speaker 1: Their lives are worth something. They're worth the same as

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Speaker 1: palasating because their lives are worth something. All of our

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Speaker 1: lives are worth something, right, But the outrage can't just

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Speaker 1: be for Israeli kids. They got to be for kids

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Speaker 1: in Palestine. They got to be for kids in Armenia,

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Speaker 1: they gotta be for kids in ch I mean everywhere,

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Speaker 1: But in this issue, it got to be for everybody

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Speaker 1: on the table. Do you think it's because people are

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Speaker 1: seeing it right now, but they're saying, Palastinian kids, do

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Speaker 1: you know what it is? It's the language that we use.

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Speaker 1: They use a language of Even when Jonathan was talking respectfully,

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Speaker 1: there's a way that we start to talk about this

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Speaker 1: is barbaric.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: When you start using words like barbaric, when you start

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Speaker 1: to frame people as subhuman or inhuman, that is a

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Speaker 1: deep problem. Now, Jonathan gold Black, Green Black, excuse me.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Green Black rightly pointed out that there's a long history.

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Speaker 1: He alluded to the long history of Jewish people being

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Speaker 1: constructed as subhuman and as animals. Right, it's a disgusting

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Speaker 1: anti Semitic trope that helped animate the forces of the Holocaust.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to ever go back there, but we

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Speaker 1: also don't want to transfer that to Palestinian people or

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Speaker 1: to Arabs. And when you start calling them barbarians, when

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Speaker 1: you start hear needs extraordinary and to some of them

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Speaker 1: unsubstantiated point claims about.

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Speaker 3: Babies being beheaded.

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Speaker 1: What it does is it creates a kind of outrage

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Speaker 1: at Arabs and at Palestinians and at brown people more broadly.

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Speaker 1: That then makes barbaric responses seem justified. But I want

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Speaker 1: to be clear. It's not just that I disagree with

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Speaker 1: disproportionate force. It is illegal to engage in disproportionate force.

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Speaker 1: There is a law of proportionality in international law, that

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Speaker 1: is to say that I can only use force to

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Speaker 1: the extent that it's that it engaged, that it that

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Speaker 1: it fulfills my military uh mission. In other words, if

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Speaker 1: if we're at war and you shoot at me, and

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Speaker 1: I should, I can't shoot that the whole block up.

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Speaker 1: I can't. That's just common hoods sense, like you can't

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Speaker 1: just shoot up the whole blo because you gotta be

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Speaker 1: for one person. You can't, right, and international law protects

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Speaker 1: that logic and asserts that logic. And so what Israel

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Speaker 1: has done is engaged in a disproportionate force. You kill us,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna kill all of y'all. We're gonna wipe them

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Speaker 1: off the map that they say, We're gonna knock them

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Speaker 1: three generations. We're gonna turn guys into tens. These are

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Speaker 1: all quotes that we're hearing. And the problem is if

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Speaker 1: you think that they're animals anyway, then it's a lot

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Speaker 1: easier to do. It's just like when you hear that

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Speaker 1: prisoners are starving. No one said people are going to prisoners.

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Speaker 1: They don't deserve you know, they're unsafe. Oh well, you know,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, because we've decided that they don't deserve

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Speaker 1: the same thing as everybody else. Right, we can't think

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Speaker 1: like that. Palisandi lives are worth just as much as

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Speaker 1: Israeli lives. And until we recognize that and own that

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Speaker 1: in policy, then we're going to continue to see the

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Speaker 1: kind of force that we're using. And that's why I

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Speaker 1: don't like this narrative of those animals, those barbarians, those

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Speaker 1: uncivilized people. No, there's civilized people who can be engaged

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Speaker 1: through diplomacy, through through politics, through legal solutions, just like

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Speaker 1: everybody else. What's the difference between Hamas and just citizens

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Speaker 1: of Palestine. Well, Hamas is a political party, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they also have a kind of armed wing that

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Speaker 1: is a little more extreme. But the Palacinian people haven't

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Speaker 1: had a chance to vote for Hamas. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what they want. They won the election, I believe for

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Speaker 1: forty four the vote in two thousand and six, forty

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Speaker 1: nine percent of the dozen population is under eighteen. So

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Speaker 1: imagine if seventeen imagine if Donald Trump won the election

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, God forbid, and then he decided,

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Speaker 1: which is not completely unplausible, that he's not leaving office.

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Speaker 1: Oh he's going to do that, right, exactly, exactly right.

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Speaker 1: I agree. So there's seventeen at least of him winning

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Speaker 1: part then seventeen years later he's still in office. You

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Speaker 1: can't blame the people who never got a chance to

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Speaker 1: vote for him. You can't blame anybody for him being

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Speaker 1: office seventeen years later if it's a four year term.

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Speaker 3: And so part of it is the everyday people, the guys.

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Speaker 1: I don't speak for them. I don't want to say

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Speaker 1: whether they support himass or not. Right, What I know

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Speaker 1: is they want to be free and they know that

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Speaker 1: the other party of FETA has basically caved. They know

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Speaker 1: that Paliseni authority doesn't represent their interest. They don't have

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Speaker 1: a mandate either, and so it's very difficult to know

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Speaker 1: what Palisi people want.

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Speaker 3: Let them have free and fair elections and then we

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Speaker 3: can find out what they want.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of the Palestinian people in general, they

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Speaker 1: don't just live in Gaza, they live in the West Bank,

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Speaker 1: they live in cities like Ramaala and Bethlehem. They live

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Speaker 1: in these cities and they are under military occupation. What

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Speaker 1: they did, and Jonathan talked about wanting a two state solution,

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Speaker 1: and again there are lots of people who want the

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Speaker 1: two state solutions. I don't oppose a two state solution philosophically,

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Speaker 1: but what they've effectively done since those Oslo Accords of

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three is turned Gaza into a cage and

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Speaker 1: the West Bank into two hundred and twenty eight separate ghettos.

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Speaker 1: So the Palestinian people don't have unity. They don't they're

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Speaker 1: ruled by different parties. Area A, they're ruled by Palestinians,

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Speaker 1: Area B, there is coordinated with Israel. Area C is

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Speaker 1: all Israeli control. So even the part where they're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be free, they're not. And Oslo was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be an opportunity to work toward a two state solution.

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Speaker 1: But over the time as they're negotiating, the area is

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Speaker 1: getting smaller, Palestinian freedom is getting smaller.

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Speaker 3: Settlements are growing. I think I used the example before.

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Speaker 1: It's like if you and I are arguing over how

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Speaker 1: to divide the pizza and as we argued, whore going

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Speaker 1: to which way to split it? You keep eating slices,

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Speaker 1: right at some point there's nothing left to divide, and

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Speaker 1: we say, well, now now there's two slices level, let's

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Speaker 1: split it. Mark Well, I'd be like fuck you right,

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Speaker 1: like it's too laugh. And that's basically what is happening

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Speaker 1: right now in Palestine. And so Palestinian people are saying, look,

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Speaker 1: we've been waiting. We we negotiated with Oslo and it

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Speaker 1: was it was a farce with no Ada calls it

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Speaker 1: a sovereignty trap.

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Speaker 3: We tried to march in protest.

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Speaker 1: They had the Great March of Return in Guys up

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Speaker 1: to the undefined border of Israel, and from five hundred

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Speaker 1: meters away, Israeli snipers were shooting down people, picking them

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Speaker 1: off like birds. They marched. They said, tell your story

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Speaker 1: through medium. My colleague get Algaeta shooting a buokla. They

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Speaker 1: killed her with the press jacket on with no justice.

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Speaker 1: They not First they said Palastinian killed it. Then they said, okay,

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Speaker 1: we did it. Then they said as an accident, is

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Speaker 1: there any justice? No, So just like black folk, here

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Speaker 1: your march, they say it's wrong. Your protests, you say

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Speaker 1: is wrong. Your boycott the BDS movement they've tried to criminalize, right,

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Speaker 1: which is a boycott, dives, investment, and sanctioned movement called

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Speaker 1: by a civil society Palestinian people saying, look, we got

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Speaker 1: to do something different. So every possible strategy has been

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Speaker 1: met with resistance, has been met with criminalization, has been

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Speaker 1: met with violence. And so when I see these awful

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Speaker 1: events that again are inexcusable, they don't come from nowhere.

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Speaker 1: They don't come from from day one being October seventh,

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Speaker 1: They come from day one, not even being nineteen forty eight,

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Speaker 1: really day one being there late in nineteenth century, late

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Speaker 1: twentieth centuries, late nineteenth century, Excuse me, when we started

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Speaker 1: to see Palestinian land being settler colonized.

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Speaker 2: Now, what is your thoughts on? You know, Jonathan was

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Speaker 2: also upset with some chapters of Black Lives Matter supporting

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Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter Chicago and Chicago. It was a couple

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Speaker 2: of chapters actually that was supporting Palestine and Hamas. What's

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Speaker 2: your thought on that? The reason we asking all these

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Speaker 2: questions because you know, I'm not verse. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if Charlamagne is versed, but I'm not verse think.

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Speaker 1: I The one I saw in Chicago was the one

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Speaker 1: with the paraga, a paraglider, and I thought that was

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Speaker 1: impoor taste.

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Speaker 3: Again, I don't because there.

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Speaker 1: Was a paragliders that came in and shot up the

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Speaker 1: right right.

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Speaker 3: And I don't sell.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to celebrate or romanticize the killing of civilians,

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Speaker 1: and so I didn't like that. Standing in solidarity with

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian people as they resist is nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 1: And as a nascent sovereign, as a young emerging sovereign state,

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Speaker 1: a mass has the right to resist military occupation. And

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Speaker 1: let's be very clear, Palestinians have the legal right, not

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Speaker 1: just the natural right, but the legal right to resist.

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Speaker 3: They can use violence to resist. They're under military occupation.

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Speaker 1: It is not illegal to resist, but you have limits

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Speaker 1: on how you can resist. Again, if you punch me

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Speaker 1: in the face, I have a right, even by this law,

432
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: to punch you back and to defend myself. I don't

433
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: have a right to pull out a knife for Bazuoka

434
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: in Blae your way with the gun whither you have

435
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: though you're in Florida, you can do facts. That's very true.

436
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 1: That that's very true right, But even in there it's limits.

437
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: Like I think, if Florida, you can't be black and

438
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: do it right. Book Palastadians is right, International law says

439
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: you can. I wrote a book called Except for Palestine,

440
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: And part of the point is all these rules work

441
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: except for Palestine. Every other sovereign state has a right

442
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: to defend itself. And when you're under a legal military

443
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: or when you're in a military occupation, when you're a

444
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 1: legal occupation, when you're it's a daily form of violence

445
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: that legally you can defend yourself with.

446
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: What you can't do is kill civilians.

447
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: And so when I see people, if I see somebody

448
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: where it's BLM or anybody else romanticizing the killing of civilians,

449
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 1: I say no, I say that's wrong. I say that

450
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: doesn't help our cause. But I don't want to pretend

451
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: that the only strategy that black folk have, or the

452
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: only strategy that Palestinians have, or the only strategy that

453
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: any people have is nonviolence. This idea that Palastinians is

454
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 1: supposed to just sit there as they get beaten and

455
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: shot and killed is ridiculous.

456
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 4: Why do you think you don't hear that much of

457
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 4: that story?

458
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: Of which part of the of the because I mean.

459
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,959
Speaker 2: You hear more about hamas you hear more about what

460
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: you know Israel, but you never hear that part of

461
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: the story.

462
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: Because it again, they do the same thing here with us,

463
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: right like there's stories when violence happens. No disrepect to

464
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: the New Black Panther Party, But there's about twelve people

465
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: in the New Black Panther Party. If you would have

466
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: watched watch Fox News, you would think that all the people,

467
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: all the people in Fergus in march, and all the

468
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: people in Minnesota marchan that it was these twelve people

469
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: that said the craziest, wildest stuff were the representaters of

470
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: all black people. They always take a one slice of

471
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: a people and tell that and make that the whole story.

472
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: That they pick it the they pull up the threads

473
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: that are easiest to pull at. So that becomes part

474
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: of the reason. The other part of the reason is

475
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: we've never represented the Middle East or Africa in ways

476
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: that show their humanity. We've always shown them as as uncivilized,

477
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: as violent, as as unprepared for democracy, and that's how

478
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: you end up here in the first place.

479
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: But we need to tell those stories. That's our job.

480
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: That's our job to tell the story of the occupation,

481
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: tell the story of suffering, to tell the story of misery.

482
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 3: Because if we don't do that, then we're complicit.

483
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: That's why when those eighteen human rights organizations stood up

484
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: and said, Israel is in apartheid state, that there are

485
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: different rights given to some folks versus other folks based

486
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: on who they are. That is the definition of apartheid.

487
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to look just like South Africa. It

488
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: has to be based on a system of racialized hierarchy

489
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: or other forms of hierarchy. And it is so when

490
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: those nations came out and said that, people started paying attention.

491
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: It's in many ways frustrating for me because I feel

492
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: like we were just starting to turn a corner when

493
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: people were noticing the injustices in Palestine. People were starting

494
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: to speak out against what was happening. People were starting

495
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: to say, wait a minute, Israel also has to do something.

496
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: Political candidates were running it, like Bernie Sanders are saying, look,

497
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: we can't give unconditional eight to anybody, but even Israel.

498
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: Israel has to not have human rights violations for us

499
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: to keep giving them our money. This is where the

500
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,719
Speaker 1: conversation was turning, and this moment creates an, unfortunately for me,

501
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: an opportunity to say, look, we don't have to hold

502
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: Israel accountable for anything. We can only focus on Palestinians.

503
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: And I think everybody, everybody needs to be held accountable.

504
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: I guess I keep getting slightly confused because we talk

505
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: about Hamas and Palestinian citizens, and I wonder if that

506
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: if that's fair. And the reason I say that because

507
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: it feels like Hamas is willing to sacrifice the Palestinian

508
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,239
Speaker 1: people because they have to know you're not gonna win

509
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: a war with Israel. They had to know when they

510
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: committed that act of terror what the response was going

511
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: to be, and they had to know that so many

512
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: innocent Palestinians were going to be killed because of it.

513
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: You know, it's an interesting question.

514
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: I asked that very question to Osama him Dan, who's

515
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: one of the who's senior spoken for for Hamas. I asked.

516
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: I had him on my Algazeri show last week as

517
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: well as an Israeli official, and I asked him that

518
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: very question. I said, if you know your response is

519
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: going to be this, why would you do that? Yeah,

520
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: there's an interesting set of questions responses that he didn't

521
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: he didn't say this, he avoided the question. But my

522
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: response would be one, I'm not sure they knew that

523
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: they'd be this successful.

524
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: I don't.

525
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: I think they they thought the Israeli intelligence and Israeli

526
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: military would be better prepared.

527
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: For this UH, for this uh for this.

528
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: Attack than they than they than they were, and I

529
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: think Israel is and I think Jonathan's basically said that,

530
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: like everybody was a little surprised by this. They may

531
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: have underestimated Hamas's capability, and Hamas may have overestimated Israel's capability,

532
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: at least in that moment. So I think part of

533
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: it was they weren't planning, They weren't prepared for this to

534
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: be They didn't think they'd get this many hostages. They

535
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: didn't think they'd be able to breathe it, you know,

536
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: to kind of get past the barrier and kill that

537
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: many people. So I think some of this might have

538
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: been this is me speculating now. I think some of

539
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: this might have been oh shit, we end oh shit,

540
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: like we hear, let's figure this out. The second thing is,

541
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: I think what they would say to you is we're

542
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: dying now slowly, and yes, this may cause an act

543
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: of extraordinary, disproportionate retaliation by Israel, but at least we

544
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to change the conditions on the ground.

545
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: At least the world is watching. At least we have

546
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: an opportunity to do something else. Do I think that's

547
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: the right decision? Though I don't. I think that's a

548
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: terrible political calculation. And I don't think that you can

549
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,239
Speaker 1: sacrifice civilians any interest of this. I just don't think

550
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: you can do that. But I also understand that if

551
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: we do nothing at all, if we do nothing at

552
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: all under occupation, if we do nothing at all under slavery,

553
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: if we do nothing at all under any gross community

554
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: system of injustice, our presses don't just free us. And

555
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: Palactians were dying anyway, They're being ethnically cleansed anyway, They're

556
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: being taken off their land anyway, And so there's no

557
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: reason to believe that if Hamas had just sat on

558
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: their hands then things would have gotten better. So we

559
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: can have a critique of Hamas and say, hey, that

560
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: was wrong, but we also have to recognize that it's

561
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: not like things were getting fixed and Hamas went and

562
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: messed them up. They were dying anyway. Palatines are dying

563
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: every single day. Those hospitals already don't have enough power.

564
00:26:58,840 --> 00:26:59,239
Speaker 1: People die.

565
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: Those hospitals are death camps anyway.

566
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: And right now, and just think about this again, Israel

567
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: is turning off all the electricity, all the fuel the hospital.

568
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: The international representative from the Red Cross, the International Red Cross,

569
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: said that this hospital will be a graveyard if Israel

570
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: doesn't give them energy. And when I spoke to Israel

571
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: officials about this directly, they said, well, talk to Hamas

572
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 1: about that. Can you explain Hamasa's relationship to the Palestinian government.

573
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: Is Hamas the Palestinian government. Hamas is the Palestinian government

574
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: effectively in Gaza. So basically, so they're in a leadership

575
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: in Gaza, in Gaza God, but so there's a Palasinian

576
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: Authority Palsin national Authority. In nineteen ninety three, they effect

577
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: the Palsonian National Authority became the ruling government or the

578
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: ruling authority and representative of the Palestinian people. This is

579
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: part of the Oslo Accords, which was an attempt to

580
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: create a two state solution. And so they said, okay,

581
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: the PLO is working the Palsenian Liberation Organization, who they

582
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: used to call terrorists. Right, they said, you know what,

583
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: we'll rec ugnized them as the AS, the U as

584
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: the AS the representative of the Palatine people. And then

585
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: we're going to have elections and parties can run. FATTA

586
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: is one of the parties, right, and they're the party

587
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: that rules in the West Bank. That's that's everything, that's

588
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: the west bank of the Jordan River, that's all the

589
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: land that was occupied in the after the nineteen sixty

590
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: seven war, that's that's them. And then Gaza had elections

591
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: and Fata Haran then there too. They did not win.

592
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: They lost by a fairly slim margin. The elections were

593
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: contested and at some point but Hamas won and so

594
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: then what you saw is what you wanted to see,

595
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: was a unity government that didn't happen. Part of why

596
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: the unity government didn't happen was the US and Israel

597
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: undermined it. But at the end of the day, you know,

598
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: have uh Hamas running this part of the of of

599
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: Palestine and you have another party running FATA, running the

600
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: other part of Palestine, and that is.

601
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 3: Why you have some challenges.

602
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is when we're fighting over Jerusalem as

603
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: a global community Muslims, Christians, when we're fighting for Jews,

604
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: we're talking about Jus, We're talk about stats judism that

605
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with Hamath, that has due

606
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: with with Mahamurabads, that has due with this party in

607
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: the West Bank, when we're talking about in a part

608
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: type wall being built throughout the West Bank, when we're

609
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: talking about the treatment of people and mother, when we're

610
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: talking about a program committed in the West Bank, in

611
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: the Palestinian village by Israeli military general standards, all that I.

612
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: Ain't got nothing to do in Hamas.

613
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: Hamas is like they become almost like a boogeyman that

614
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: we can talk about when we should be talking about

615
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: all these other issues. There are legitimate Palestinian representatives who

616
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: they also have refused to meet with. There are legitimate

617
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: negotiations that could happen that they've also refused to have.

618
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: So Hamas in some ways is saying, look, the rest

619
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: of our leadership is sold out. We're going to hold

620
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: the line here. Again, it doesn't mean I grew with

621
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: their tactics, but again it didn't start from nowhere part

622
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: of what Jamas has some of the admiration of the people,

623
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: it's because they're the only people who haven't capitulated and

624
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: so and they can't vote for anybody else.

625
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: So this is this is the challenge of it.

626
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: So the Palestinian leadership is even divided based on where

627
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: they are. And the reason why that happens is because

628
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: again Israel and the Alslo courts divided the Palisenian territories

629
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: up in a way that Palisanians don't have one cohesive,

630
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: continuous piece of land with access to water, all the

631
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: things you would need for a country. They put them

632
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: broken up in these little ghetto so that they could

633
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: never have a full body representing them, both geographically or politically.

634
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: So in Israel waging war, is it just contained to

635
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: Gaza at one area? It is right now, although as

636
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: of the last report I saw seven people were killed

637
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: in the West Bank too, but by Israeli forces. But

638
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, right now, it's only happening in Gaza. And

639
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: we've also seen things happen when you hear clashes in

640
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: ox of Moss, that's happening in the West Bank, that's

641
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: happening and occupied East Jerusalem, when you hear.

642
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: About you know.

643
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: Br Goldstein, a settler from Brooklyn who came and engaged

644
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: in a massacre at the Iberheim Mosque in Khalil and

645
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: Hebron and the nineties that was in the West Bank

646
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: and the military clashes that came after that were there.

647
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: So there's It really just depends on where you're talking

648
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: about at a given moment. But right now we're talking

649
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: about just the guys A strip, which is a very

650
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: specific strip of land uh with within the region. Most

651
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: people are up north right Gadsa City, and right now

652
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: they're being told go to the southern part of the country.

653
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: That's another important thing because part of what people say

654
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: is Israel has the most restraint. They have the most

655
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: restraint driven military in the world. They give people warnings

656
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: before they bomb them. They tell people.

657
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: So they do have what's called a roof knocking strategy,

658
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: where they say, well, you know, we'll knock on the

659
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: roof and in three minutes later with we'll drop a

660
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: non explosive on your roof and then you have like

661
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: three minutes to.

662
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,959
Speaker 1: Leave before we blow it up.

663
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: That's not a lot of time.

664
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: Second, they've they've gotten rid of that strategy they say, well,

665
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: if to the point you made earlier, I say knocking,

666
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: we ain't knocking, We're just blowing shit up now.

667
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: Also, well, let's say you know my question to that too,

668
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: because if you knock on and as Hamas, Hamas knows

669
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: now you're gonna bomb me.

670
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 4: So they know how to get the hellouse.

671
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't.

672
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 4: That doesn't make much sense at all.

673
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: Evil.

674
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 3: The argument was a lot because they say a.

675
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: Lot of people that that Hamas is what even what

676
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: Jonathan green Blast said was they they are setting up

677
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: in churches, they're setting up in hospitals, they're sitting up

678
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: in schools, they're setting up in bacad.

679
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: I haven't. I have yet to see intelligence reports that

680
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: say that. The problem is they say Hamasis everywhere. They

681
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: say Hamasis everywhere, and they have tunnels everywhere. So then

682
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: when you blow up a school, that school is filled

683
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: with children, and they say, well, yeah, but Hamas was

684
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: in there. The narrative is constructed as if Palestinian people

685
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: stand in front of their babies with guns and so

686
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: and force you to kill both of them. Right, that's

687
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: the narrative, right, history intelligent reports don't necessarily suggest that that.

688
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: Oftentimes what is seen as a military target often is

689
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: just a civilian target. I mean when the classic example

690
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: historically is the bombing of the King David Hotel, they say, oh,

691
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: it was a British military target.

692
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: That is that is rarely terrorists blew up.

693
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: Right, turns out it wasn't and it's stories it wasn't

694
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: a military talk there were civilians in there, right, These

695
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: are the things that happened. Schools are getting bombed, hospitals

696
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: are getting bombed, homes are getting leveled. I spoke to

697
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: a woman whose entire family eleven people in the house

698
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: were killed when the apartment was leveled last week, and

699
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: none of them were military.

700
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: None of them were members of Jimaz.

701
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: But this idea of saying what we had to blow

702
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: it up because Hamas is basically saying Jimaz stands in

703
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: civilian areas and forces us to kill everybody. But there's

704
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: no evidence of that. But again, international law doesn't say

705
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: you can just do that. You can't just arbitrarily do that.

706
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: And you can't move one point one million people to

707
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: the south in twenty four hours and at the same

708
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: time that you shoot down the corridor to get them there,

709
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: and you're shooting at transport vehicles, they transferred people from

710
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: the north to the south. If all that is happening,

711
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: you can't in good faith say that we gave everybody

712
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: a warning, as if all the civilians were going to

713
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: leave to the south and Homasa is gonna be standing

714
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: up in the Northay, hey here we are come get

715
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: us right, Like that's not realistic, honest, and we have

716
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: to be honest about that.

717
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 3: And honestly, Antonio is the head of the UN.

718
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: Other nations are beginning to say that they're saying, Look,

719
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: this is disproportionate for us, this is too much. You

720
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: can't blow up all the hospitals. You have to give

721
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: people food, you have to give people electricity. And the

722
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: fact that we're sitting here right now having a fight

723
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: over whether or not Palestinians can get food, clothing, shelter, electricity,

724
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: fuel is absurd. Thousands of Palastinians have been killed and

725
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: we're pretending like it's just okay, and it's not. Yeah,

726
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: I wonder about that too, Like why do people have

727
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: to be pro Israel or pro Palestine? Like, I'm pro

728
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to see kids get killed. I'm pro

729
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to see anything. I'm anti war, Like,

730
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: why do people have to pick this side? Like I

731
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: don't understand. I'll tell you why. At this moment, we

732
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: can all say we don't want violence. I agree, you

733
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: don't have to know about the issue. And look, I

734
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: just don't want to see anybody die. That's why I'm

735
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: at this moment. I want to see another Israeli child dead.

736
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't want see another Palestinian child dead. I don't

737
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: want to see anybody die, not just children, adult. I

738
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: don't want nobody to die. But the problem is if

739
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: you say that you are pro Israel as it is

740
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: currently constituted, then you are saying that you are in

741
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: support of a government that is systematically colonizing people, that

742
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: is systematically displacing people, that is systematically stealing people's land,

743
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: that is systematically ethnically cleansing people, as we see in

744
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: Gaza right now. Those people leave gods and can't come back.

745
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: They've been ethnically cleansed. Right When you say you pro Palestine,

746
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: then they'll say you pro Hamas. Here's the difference. If

747
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 1: I say I'm pro Hamas, I'm saying I'm pro Hamas, right,

748
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: I can be pro Palestinian and support Pilistlian self determination

749
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: and still disagree with Hamas. The problem is Israel as

750
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: it is constructed. Israel as it is defined. Israel, by

751
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: its own definition, is not a state of all of

752
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: its citizens, by virtue of being a Jewish state, and

753
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: by virtue of giving people different rights based on whether

754
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: or not they are Jewish, by virtue of the fact

755
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: that Palestinians have different rights and privileges, even those who

756
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: are citizens of Israel. Arab sisms of Israel have different

757
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: rights rules, and they'll say that's a lie. There are

758
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: Palastinians and are kinnessed. They're Palestinian members in a supreme court.

759
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: Palastinians at the exact same rights. There are about sixty

760
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: laws on the books that show a difference, either facially

761
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: or in practice in terms of how people get treated

762
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: based on whether or not they are an Arab or not.

763
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: Even for Arab sisterms of Israel. Right now, people in

764
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: the West Bank don't have rights and freedoms. So the

765
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: way Israel is constructed, it is by definition operating against

766
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: the interests of Palestinian people. That's the difference. It would

767
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: be like saying I'm not anti Indian, I'm just pro

768
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: United States. That'd be a hell of a thing to

769
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: tell a Native American right, because the United States, by definition,

770
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: by its construction, is created in a way that stomps

771
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: on the rights Ofative Americans here. So I can't say

772
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: to something. I can't look at Native American in the

773
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: eye and say, well, I'm not I don't pick a side.

774
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm neutral on this right. I like Native Americans and

775
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I and I and I love what America created, like

776
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: nah bruh, Like you gotta pick one on that right.

777
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: And so it doesn't mean, though that I have to

778
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: hate Israeli's or that I have to hate Jewish people.

779
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: I don't hate either. I want everyone to live in peace, safety, dignity,

780
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,479
Speaker 1: self determination, and justice, and that's important to be said.

781
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: I guess that's why I don't like conflating to Hamas

782
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: in Palestinians, because Hamas charter literally does say they want

783
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: to destroy Israel and kill Jewish people.

784
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 3: That was that was that that was their that was

785
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: their charter.

786
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: And I think that we can have an opposition to

787
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: Hamas's charter. I think we can have an opposition to

788
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 1: Jumas all the way and still support the Palestinian people. Again,

789
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: Haimas is a government and an organization. They're not the

790
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: Palestinian people, right. I think that's what a confusion is.

791
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: And I think we can have a disagreement with the

792
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: Israeli government, right and I could say, hey, they're they're

793
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: they're Israelis. There's Ionists. There are Jewish people here who say, look,

794
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: I don't agree with the Israeli government, but I disagree

795
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: with the government, but I support the government's right to exist.

796
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: I hear you. What I'm saying is is that the

797
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: Jewish state as is constructed right now, as is constructed

798
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: right now, and as it was designed since nineteen forty eight,

799
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: was constructed in a way that depended upon the ethnic

800
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: cleansing of Palestinian people, the settler colonizing of Palestinian people,

801
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: and the continued a dispossession of Palestinian people.

802
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: And so that's the difference. This isn't about what I

803
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 3: agree with the government.

804
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: And now everybody has governments issue shouldn't be held to

805
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: a higher standard or a lower standard. Issua should be

806
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: held to the same standards all governments. You can critique them,

807
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: you can agree with them, you can support them, you

808
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: can resist them, you can do all that stuff. I'm

809
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: not against that, but I'm saying right now, Palestinian people

810
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: have been dispossessed, they have been made stateless, they have

811
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: been made refugees in their own home, and they've been

812
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: made refugees around the world, and it's only getting worse.

813
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: And so what we have to do right now is

814
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: not just ask how can we stop this violence, which

815
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: we should. I hope the violence stops tomorrow, but if

816
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: we go back to the way we were two weeks ago,

817
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: that also is an act of gross of irresponsibility and

818
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: really violence on our part. Because Palestinians are getting treated

819
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: like animals every single day.

820
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: Somebody might say, well, well, why are you so passionate

821
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 4: about this? What you know? Because you you've been passionate

822
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 4: about this for a long time.

823
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

824
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: So if somebody asked, well, why is Mark Lamont Hill

825
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 2: is so passionate, what would you tell.

826
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: Them A couple of reasons. As an American citizen, my

827
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: tax dollars go to it. I don't make as much

828
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: money as y'all, but I pay a significant amount of taxes,

829
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: so I feel like even more, I'm even more culpable

830
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: my money goes to funding this occupation, I'm responsible for

831
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: it as an American citizen, as a black person.

832
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: I believe in justice everywhere.

833
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: The week before I was grilling the Israeli minister in

834
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: the Hamas Minster, I was grilling the Minister of a

835
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: Zetba Jean because I'm worried about what's happening to people there. Right,

836
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: So it's not just as real. It'sue shouldn't be shouldn't

837
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: be isolated. We should be focused on it. In justice everywhere.

838
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: But the reason in particular why this issue comes to

839
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: me is one as somebody who study in the Middle East,

840
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating issue to me. But also, we don't

841
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: give everybody four billion dollars a year, you know what

842
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: I mean. I might be pissed off of what's going

843
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: on in Uzbekahstan, but we don't put that much money.

844
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: And it was Becky Wallace, right, So I don't even

845
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: think that's how you said. So that's part of it

846
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: as well. Also, there's a long history of solidarity of

847
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: Palestinian people with black folks. Some people that they don't

848
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: care about us, that's not true. Now there's some stuff

849
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: we got to work out but Malcolm X cared about

850
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: this issue. Malcolm X is my hero. So when Malcolm

851
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: X cared about this issue, when he wrote an issue

852
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: a piece on this in the Egyptian Gazette called Zionist Logic,

853
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: I cared. In a fall of sixty four, I cared

854
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: because Malcolm cared.

855
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 3: Malcolm.

856
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: And when everybody here go back and listen to message

857
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: to the grassroots, Malcolm is talking about what a revolution

858
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: looks like, and he was talking about us being connected globally, right,

859
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: That's why I care about this issue. The Black Panthers

860
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: cared about this issue. Snick cared about this issue in

861
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: the summer sixty seven. There's a lot of people black

862
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: freedom fighters who we admire. People say, be like Malcolm,

863
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: be like a side of people want to march him

864
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: and be like Huey. People want to be like Angela.

865
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: They all cared about Palestine. So I'm following that tradition,

866
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: but I'm not doing it blindly. They understood that our freedom,

867
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: our liberation as a people, had to require it demanded

868
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: us to be connected to people in other places who

869
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: are pressed. I can't get free if Palestine ain't free.

870
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: I can't get free if South Africa ain't free, and unfortunately,

871
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: that fight toward freedom will always alienate you.

872
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: It'll always make you look marginal, It'll always make you

873
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 3: look like.

874
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: The bad guy. Nelson Mandela spent thirty years in prison.

875
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: He was in prison from nineteen sixty four until nineteen ninety.

876
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: He became the president of South Africa, and he still

877
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: was on the United States terror watch list until twenty eighteen.

878
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: Until two thousand, we had a black president here and

879
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: he was still on the terror list. He had been

880
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: the president of a state, he'd been hailed around the world,

881
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: he'd been at the Olympics, everybody loved him, everybody pretended

882
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: that they didn't criminalize it, and he was still on

883
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: our country is terror list. So we got to be

884
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: real careful about who we call a terrorist. We got

885
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: to be real mindful of how we use that language

886
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: of terror, because one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.

887
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: And that's not going to be taken out of context

888
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: that I'm saying that I support what Hamas did. Again,

889
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: I oppose what Hamas did. I oppose the killing of civilians.

890
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: But what we're not going to do is pretend that

891
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 1: oppressed people getting liberated by resisting violence in self defense

892
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: is an act of terrorism.

893
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: As such, we can't do that either.

894
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 1: Can you explain your relationship between America and Israel? Because

895
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: you said, you know, America gives them four billion dollars

896
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: a year. Why are they such strong outa It's a

897
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: great question, you know, and it's a question that lots

898
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: of people ask. You know, it's a relatively so Initially

899
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: the strongest support of Israel was.

900
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 3: We're the British right. But then.

901
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 1: By this nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, and I talked about

902
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: this in my book except for Palestine a lot, and

903
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: there's other people who write is much better than me.

904
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: Rassi Kality is a book called The One Hundred Years War.

905
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: Nord Attakat has a book called Injustice for Justice for some,

906
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: excuse me, justice for some, And there's many others Elin

907
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: Pepe and others. I'd say, read the Palestinians before you

908
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: read me, and these Raelies before you read me. But

909
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: there's a way that the United States, I'll get to

910
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: the heart of it. The US doesn't have feelings, it

911
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: has interests. We watch violent atrocities happen in certain places.

912
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: We don't say anything.

913
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: We watch a small atrocity, and all atrocities are awful,

914
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: happen in other places. I'm not talking about this though

915
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: right now, and we're outraged, our outrage meter.

916
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: Doesn't link to.

917
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: It isn't doesn't directly correspond to what people did. It

918
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: corresponds to what we need. Right there's certain places where

919
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: we all we gotta go to and liberate the women, right,

920
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: but that right now, we're best friends with Saudi Arabia,

921
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: which has a gross human rights record, particularly against when

922
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: you talk about beheadings. Look at Saudi Arabia, right They

923
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: killed a journalist, Jamal Khoji five years ago.

924
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 3: We're in the anniversary of that. So we don't have

925
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: we're selective.

926
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: Israel operates as the United States' strategic outposts, so there's

927
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: a friendly relationship between US and Israel, but it also

928
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: serves the US's military interests because the US wants a

929
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: stake in the Midlis, just like everybody want to stake

930
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: in the Middle East. And now you have the opportunity

931
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: to have a nation that's not brown. Let me be clear, Israel,

932
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: it still has a majority of miserdahij Jusey. I'm not

933
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: suggesting the Israel's not a brown country, and the Israel

934
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have brown Jews the majority of Missadahim at this point.

935
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: But my point is that Israel at its founding isn't

936
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: an Arab country, and so being able to have to

937
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: be an Arab territory and to have an Arab a

938
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: non Arab country, there's your strategic outpost makes a lot

939
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: of military sense.

940
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: It it makes a lot of economic sense for the.

941
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: United States, and of course for Israel, the United States

942
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: serves a great purpose the military backing.

943
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 3: It gives them money.

944
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Now, you know, there's a long history of the United

945
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: States and the UK not wanting Jewish people here. So

946
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: part of it was also animated by anti Semitism is

947
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: that it was almost as if they said, look, we'll

948
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 1: allow Israel to exist because we don't want Jewish people here.

949
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: So the same so if you look at US immigration

950
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: law through the twentieth century, they didn't want Jews here,

951
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: they didn't want Irish people here, they didn't want Russians here.

952
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: The lots of we were already here anal choice, but

953
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: like they didn't want any of us here. And so

954
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: part of why it was easy for the UK to

955
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: get for the British to give Israel to to to

956
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: the Zionist movement was because they didn't want Jews in

957
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,399
Speaker 1: Britain because of anti Semitism, and Americans didn't want them either,

958
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: So part of the at the beginning was like, we

959
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: don't want them here anyway. Now they've they've served strategic interests. Again,

960
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: that's anti Semitic, it's deeply problematic, but that's part of

961
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: the origin story of why we got into these political

962
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: relationships that we got into. It's a two state solution.

963
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: The solution I don't believe so, but I think it's

964
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: up to Palestinians and Israelis to decide that. I want

965
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: them to come up with a final analysis and a

966
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: final plan that works for them. And I think the

967
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: best plan that we could have is a one state solution.

968
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: One country. Everybody gets one vote. It's secular. It's not

969
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: a religious state. It's not a Jewish state, so it's

970
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: not in Islamic state. It's just a secular democracy where

971
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: everybody gets a vote. To me, that's fair, that's easy. Again,

972
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: two state doesn't work because settlements. Two state doesn't work

973
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: because Palestinians won't get their rights protected. So for me,

974
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: it's a secular, democratic, one state solution. But you know what,

975
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: it ain't up to me as an American taxpayer. All

976
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: I want to do is not funded anymore. And I

977
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: want the final plan to come from Israelis and Palestinians

978
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: who can work together to figure out a plan. But

979
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: that plan has to be one that has one thing

980
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: that's not negotiable. The one not negotiable that it has

981
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: to be is that it has to produce dignity, safety, justice, security,

982
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: and self determination for every body. I don't want anybody

983
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: to leave. I don't think anybody needs to leave. I

984
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: think everybody needs to stay and get those rights, the justice,

985
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: and that self determination. That's my that's my analysis. All right, Well,

986
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: I hope we get there no more war.

987
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 4: We appreciate you coming in and breaking it down.

988
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate everything about this show. I appreciate what

989
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: y'all doing.

990
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: Man.

991
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 3: The only thing I say real quick is Charlottmagne is

992
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 3: trolling with that hat.

993
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm not. It's just repping my squad's all. Yeah, And

994
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: this is what I mean, Like you got to pick

995
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: a side, man, Like you know you're not from Dallas,

996
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: like you literally signed with the enemy. But no, when

997
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: I grew up in South Carolina, we didn't have a team.

998
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: So like my dad and my granddad, they were all

999
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: Cowboys fans. They're America's team.

1000
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 3: Do you see do you hear the propaganda?

1001
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: Well, at least earlier in the year, he was buying

1002
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: Super Bowl tickets and he was getting his hotels.

1003
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 3: But that's wh who do you want to see there?

1004
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: You would the halftime show? How Boys going to the

1005
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: Super Bowl? I did well? Probably up and up the

1006
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: stairs more question after question question. That's why you want

1007
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: me to ask nobody?

1008
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 4: But I asked them.

1009
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: I don't care he neither. I am interested in what

1010
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: go ahead. Jesus Christ. I didn't want that reaction, all right,

1011
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: Well he was bad, all right. Look I know what

1012
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: he said. I watch the sho every day. It was

1013
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: about I know what he said.

1014
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 3: I know what he said.

1015
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: It's the one time agree I actually hated to agree

1016
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: with him. You agree that they should say something? Yeah,

1017
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: hell yeah, they should say something. Really, if you are,

1018
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: it's yes, more Cali than Drake? Really, yeah, more Cali

1019
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: than Drake. Why because they never talk about social issues ever?

1020
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: I know, and I have an issue with that I

1021
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: have an issue with anybody.

1022
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: I don't think every famous person has to say something

1023
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: about everything, but if your people are being exterminated, if

1024
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: your people are being executed, if your people are being

1025
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: whatever its circumstances, I think you got to say something.

1026
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: He's like the most damn near the most famous Palestinian

1027
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: in the world. If I were the most famous black person,

1028
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: if any of us were the most famous black person

1029
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: in the world, the most famous Black person in the world,

1030
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: and black people were being killed in our country and

1031
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: nobody said anything, I would be deeply disturbed. I don't

1032
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: know what and the reason I'm not letting Drake off

1033
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: the hook, you know what I mean. There's plenty of

1034
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: reasons to have issues with driva Issus Drake the last month,

1035
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: but none of them about none of them political. It's

1036
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: all about the you know, his framing of gender and

1037
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: on his album and his treatment of everybody from Holly

1038
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: Buried you know, we going down list. That's another conversation.

1039
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: But for me, I don't know how Drake identifies in

1040
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: terms of his politics. I don't know how he identifies

1041
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: as a Jewish person. I don't know how he identifies.

1042
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: I know identifies racial as a black person, and so

1043
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: I don't know how connected he is ethnically, culturally, or

1044
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: politically to that issue.

1045
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 3: If he is, and he should speak up too, I

1046
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: just don't know.

1047
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: Drinks said he had a ball mince field when he

1048
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: was of age, and you know, yes, he talk about a.

1049
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 4: Lot of it.

1050
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: But but the problem is that argument presumes it because

1051
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 1: I'm Jewish that have to be pro Israel, and there

1052
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: are numerous Jewish people around the world are who are

1053
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: Jewish and not pro Israel.

1054
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 3: I don't think Drake has a responsibility pro to be

1055
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 3: pro Israel.

1056
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: I think I'd love for him to say something about

1057
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: it whatever wherever he stands on this issue.

1058
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: But Kyla, yeah, man, and yeah, it was none.

1059
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: Of those things either. Though Kyla is not connected culturally.

1060
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: I've seen him wear the coffee, I've seen him do stuff, yea,

1061
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: I've seen him be outside Palestinian. He don't lead with

1062
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: it because it's not great for business to walk around

1063
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: saying you're Palestinian.

1064
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 3: Someone argued that's that's a problem. I'm not here to

1065
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: judge that.

1066
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: All I'm going to say is I would have liked

1067
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: to hear him say something and The fact that the

1068
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: leading hip hop cop journalist Vlad and I on the

1069
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: same page on this issue should suggest to you how

1070
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: morally egregious it is that even that he and I

1071
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: are on the same page on this thing. When they do, though,

1072
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: what then what like? If they do then what like?

1073
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: What is that? I mean? I think that's always the question, right,

1074
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: I mean, like what happens when the NBA speaks out

1075
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 1: against such and such? Right? I do think that there's

1076
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: power in that. Part of it is awareness. There are

1077
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: people who will never watch this video. There are people

1078
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: and everybody watching the Breakfast Club, but just people who

1079
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: won't watch the Breakfast Club but will.

1080
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: Listen to DJ Kaled's Instagram story.

1081
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: That's why it matters. The same reason why when the

1082
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: NBA players wore hands up, don't shoot or Black Lives Matter,

1083
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: it mattered because they reached the sector of the world

1084
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: they wouldn't otherwise know that story. When Lebron and d

1085
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: Wade and Chris Paul said stuff, that shit mattered because

1086
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: people cared, you know what I mean? When Beyonce was

1087
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: talking about you know, you know, and again I didn't

1088
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: need her to give a press conference, but Beyonce did

1089
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: was extraordinary given her platform, and so and the difference is,

1090
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of.

1091
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 3: Black people that can speak.

1092
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who are Jewish who

1093
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: can speak. There's lots of people who are Indian who

1094
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: can speak. But how many people in the United States

1095
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: right now who are Palestinian have the platform in the calendars?

1096
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: Maybe Gigi Hadi maybe who spoke out right, there's one

1097
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: or two people, but in general, there's not really a

1098
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: space for that. So it's not just Calim for me,

1099
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: any any any of them who are Palestinian, any of

1100
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: them who are who have platform should speak up. And

1101
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: and I'm not putting that just on Pealastins. I'm saying

1102
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: that for black folks too. But I'm saying the stakes

1103
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: are even higher because it ain't but a Palestinians in Hollywood,

1104
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 1: you know, there's a million black folk.

1105
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 3: So I just feel like that you gotta do it.

1106
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: I guess if they want to, my thing would be

1107
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: past the microphone to somebody who know what they're talking about.

1108
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: I be okay with that. I be okay with that.

1109
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: If cal said, look, I don't know about this issue,

1110
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: but I want to bring these people together and make

1111
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: it happen, but he's he's moving as if it didn't happen,

1112
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: and it's weird to at least on social media, we

1113
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: don't know what he's doing behind the scenes. That's fair enough.

1114
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm pretty connected to the Palestinian movement. I heard one

1115
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: person yet say that he's doing something. I ain't heard one.

1116
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: That's not to say he's not.

1117
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: I ain't heard one yet. But again, I'm not Palestinian.

1118
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: It's not my job to tell him what to do

1119
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 1: with his people or for his people. I'm just saying

1120
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 1: I share of lads disappointment that that I haven't heard

1121
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: anything from Calent and social media is reality for a

1122
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: lot of people. Call it gives us a narrative of

1123
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: his life, what's going on, what's going on world? And

1124
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: if you're selling a product while two thousand year people

1125
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: have been killed, fifteen hundred people have been killed, that

1126
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: feels that feels gross to me. It feels little gross

1127
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: to me, Like even if you didn't want to speak up,

1128
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: if if an all black neighborhood got bombed today and you said,

1129
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't I Charlott Mayne, or if you don't feel

1130
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: like talking about it, I bet you wouldn't go in

1131
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: your story and be like yo, che check out my

1132
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: check out the trailer for my new documentary today on

1133
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: such and such, and check out my new book. You

1134
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: just you would have the decency to do nothing. And

1135
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying part of what happens is when you move

1136
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: is if nothing is happening while the world is blowing up,

1137
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it communicates even more so that

1138
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: this isn't worth caring about. We already have a media

1139
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: that does that. We already have an intellectual infrastructure that

1140
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: does that. We have a legal apparatus that does that.

1141
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: We don't need people who look like us doing it.

1142
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying. But that's again, Kyla might disagree,

1143
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: and I respect I would just respectfully disagree.

1144
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 4: All right, Well, Mark Lamont Hell, yes, it's the breakfast clubs.

1145
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: Sure you'll get them books too, man, except for Palestine.

1146
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The breakfast club