1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 2: We're following up this week's episode on Elizabeth Fulham and 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: her connections to the world of photography with our episode 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: on Louis de Geer, inventor of the Deaghera type. This 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: episode originally came out December twenty seventh, twenty twenty one. 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: Enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: Holly Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. You have probably 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: noticed that there's a name that pops up pretty much 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: anytime we're discussing photography in history, and that is de 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: gear We have referenced him and his Deaghera types and 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,959 Speaker 2: the invention of that many times on the show, and 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: we often use it as a reference point for when 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: other people are taking pictures and how far along they've come. 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: We're probably going to reference it again. He really innovated 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: and touched a lot of lives. But well before he 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: figured out how to capture images through a camera obscura, 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: he was an artist and an innovator in entertainment. So 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 2: today we are going to talk about all of that 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: because you've never covered him before, and of course we 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: will also talk about his work in photography. He's one 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: of those people that has come up so many times 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: that we had to have the conversation about whether we 24 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: had already done this episode. 25 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: Yes, Tracy, are you sure we haven't covered to Gueret. 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: I just looked through the whole spreadsheet, not in there. 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: So He was born Louis Jacques Monde Dauguerre on November eighteenth, 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: seventeen eighty seven, about one hundred and eighty kilometers west 29 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: of Paris, in a town called Corme on Persi. The family, 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: especially to Gere's father, who was named Louis. They were 31 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: royalists in their politics, and Louis had a sister who 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: even was named after Marie Antoinette. That sister was born 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: in seventeen ninety one. The senior Louis de guer worked 34 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: as a court crier before the revolution, and that was 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 2: a civil service job. But as the French Revolution really 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: hated up, that job of course went away for a while. 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: That meant that the family moved to Orleans, where Louis 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: senior found work as a clerk in an estate, and 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: in seventeen ninety three, of course, Louis the sixteenth was 40 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: guillotined and the reign of terror began. Degare's father was 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: employed by Louis Philippe, the second Duke d'Orleans, who sided 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: with the revolution, but he was of course a cousin 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: of the king, and he was eventually guillotined for his 44 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: association with the House of Bourbon, and though Louis da 45 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 2: guer senior remained employed at the estate, this seems to 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: have pretty much meant that life in Orleans was a 47 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: little bit more somber than it had been when the 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: family first arrived there. There are some holes in the 49 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: story of Degaer's early life. Some of that is just 50 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: because it would have been an usual for just a 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: regular child's life to be well documented, but it's also 52 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: because of the period in which he was born. So consider, 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: for example, he would have still been basically a baby, 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: not even two years old, when the Bastille was stormed 55 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: in seventeen eighty nine, so his whole childhood was happening 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: at a time when the monarchy was falling, the revolution 57 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: was raging. That all would have been very difficult for 58 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: his royalist father, and it also would have meant that 59 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: a lot of just so called normal life was significantly disrupted. 60 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: So we know that Louis Daguerre was enrolled in public 61 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: school in Orleans, but due to those constantly shifting sands 62 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: of the French government, there were stretches, long stretches sometimes 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: where classes did not assemble, So Dager got something of 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: a patchwork education. But he spent that ample free time 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: that he was afforded by the gaps in school to 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: develop his natural talent, which was drawing. While Louis de 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: Guerre's name is forever linked to photography, he really did 68 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: not start out on a career path that would suggest 69 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: that outcome. In eighteen hundred, Louis de Guerre drew a 70 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: portrait of his parents. This was sort of an audition. 71 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: The skill that he exhibited with this portrait led to 72 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: him being offered an apprenticeship, not exactly with an artist, 73 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: though it was with an architect. This was a stable 74 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: career path for an artistic thirteen year old in a 75 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: time when France really did not have that many stable 76 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: career paths. So for three years he dutifully worked at 77 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: perfecting his ability to render the drawings of building structures. 78 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: That's something he seems to have really enjoyed. He loved 79 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: recreating true life detail in his drawing, and architectural drawings 80 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: were to him just another iteration of that. Now, as 81 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: a note, this is something that I stumbled across a 82 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: lot while researching this episode. You will sometimes see it 83 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: mentioned in biographical writeups of de Guer that he also 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: he worked as a revenue officer during this early period 85 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: of his life, without much additional information about it, And 86 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 2: it kind of seems like this might actually be the 87 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: result of some confusion due to his name being the 88 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: same as his father's, and since we know that his 89 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: father did work as a clerk at an estate, that 90 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: kind of seems like the most likely scenario. 91 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: When the younger Louis. 92 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 2: De Guer finished his apprenticeship at the age of sixteen, 93 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: he didn't take the next step into architecture. Instead, he 94 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: went back to his love of art. He decided to 95 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: move to Paris to study painting and to try to 96 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: make a life as an artist. This was something that 97 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 2: his parents found terrifying. They had supported his artistic tendencies, 98 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: but there was just uncertainty and a lack of stability 99 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: in an art career. And then, on top of that 100 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: they were also concerned that the young de Geer would 101 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: fall into a life of debauchery in Paris. Finally, after 102 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: a lot of discussion, they made an arrangement that was 103 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: agreeable to the parents and the son alike. Louis's father 104 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: got him an apprenticeship in Paris with Ignacio Eugeno Maria 105 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: Degotti and Degotti was born and touring Italy in seventeen 106 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: fifty eight, and like young Luis de Guar, he showed 107 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: artistic proclivity from a very young age, and he too 108 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: had moved to Paris to pursue his art, although he 109 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: did so when he was in his thirties, and by 110 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: the time his life met up with Deguere's he had 111 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: become a renowned theatrical designer and a painter for the 112 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: Paris Opera, and de Guer moved in with him as 113 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: part of this apprenticeship deal that was something his parents 114 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: insisted upon. This was a time in his life when 115 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: Louis de Geer lived a pretty enviable existence. He was young, 116 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 2: he was making connections in the Paris art scene, and 117 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: he made the most of that. There are stories about 118 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: how much fun he was at parties and how he 119 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: would go into such gatherings walking on his hands. He 120 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: loved Paris, and Paris loved him back. He was really 121 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 2: beloved among his peers. At one point he even appeared 122 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: on stage in a small role in the Paris Opera. Yeah, 123 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 2: there was one section of a biography about him I 124 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: was reading where it said that he knew how to 125 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: walk a tightrope and that he may have learned this 126 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: when he was a young boy, because festivals would come 127 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: through the area where they lived. And I'm like, yes, 128 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: but how did that come up? While he's just hanging 129 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: out with this friend's like, oh, would you like to 130 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: see me? What walk this tightrope that just happens to 131 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: be here at present? That's a little less clear, But 132 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: he had a lot of fun skills, it sounds like. 133 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: And just as he had spent three years as an 134 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: architect's apprentice, he spent three years under Degatti's tutelage before 135 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: deciding that he wanted to move on. And this was 136 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: a pretty natural progression because his next move was to 137 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: take on an assistant ship with another artist, and this 138 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: time it was Pierre Prevost, famed panorama painter. Panoramas are 139 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: enormous paintings. They were mounted in circular rooms intended to 140 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: be viewed from a central viewing platform. They had made 141 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: their debut in London in seventeen ninety three, and then 142 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: Paris had quickly embraced this medium, and Provost really excelled 143 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: at creating deeply detailed vistas that captured the attention of visitors. 144 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: He didn't do all this on his own. He had 145 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 2: a team of assistants who worked with him, and that 146 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: is where de Geer fit in. In addition to being 147 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: an apparently delightful party guest, de Geer was also a 148 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: really hard worker. Yeah, he did not ever shirk his work, 149 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: and moreover, he seemed to have an attitude of like, 150 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: I will learn everything I can from my mentors, and 151 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: he really applied himself in every position he was in 152 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: by all reports, in eighteen ten, while de Gerre was 153 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 2: still working for Provost and he was twenty three at 154 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,239 Speaker 2: the time, he married the twenty year old Louise Georgina Aerosmith. 155 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: Her name is English just because her parents were English, 156 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 2: although she was born and raised in France, and these 157 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: two were very much love. This was a love match, 158 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: and when Louise's brother had a child out of wedlock. 159 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 2: The de geers raised her as their own daughter. Her 160 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 2: name was Marguerite Felicity. After almost ten years working under 161 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: Provost de Gear was offered and accepted a new job 162 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: that was chief painter at the Theater de la Bigu Comique. 163 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: In that job, De Gear elevated the production significantly. He 164 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: didn't just create backdrops that were far superior to what 165 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: the theater had before, he also introduced a new way 166 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: to use them through lighting design. He devised systems of 167 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: lighting effects to create convincing moonlight scenes, and when it 168 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: came time to stage the eruption of Mount Etna in 169 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: a play titled Le Belvidere, Degear created a sensation with 170 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: his lighting design. This spurred ticket sales for the theater. 171 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: He became so recognized as an asset for the theater 172 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: that the Paris Opera wanted to hire him, so for 173 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: a couple of years he was designing the scenery for 174 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: both of those at the same time. Time. Yeah, this 175 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: is such a striking development because again, remember right like 176 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: they're doing all of this manually and at a time 177 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: when it was like night has fallen and all of 178 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: the lights would be blown out or all of the 179 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: windows closed. He was like, no, no, what if we 180 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: find a way to do this subtly, which was a 181 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: complete shift. So all of this and working for these 182 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: two theater houses at the same time kept Louis very busy, 183 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: but he still had time to think of new projects, 184 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: and in eighteen twenty one he partnered with an old 185 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: friend and colleague who had worked as an assistant to 186 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 2: Pierre Prevost at the same time that de Geer had. 187 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: That was a man named Charles Murie Button, and the 188 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,479 Speaker 2: two men had a plan to launch a new entertainment 189 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: venture that built on their knowledge of panorama painting and 190 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: incorporated the lighting expertise that de gear had acquired through 191 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 2: his theater work. The two men set up a limited 192 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: stock company and they leased a plot of land and 193 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: they sold shares to investors fund their project. On July eleventh, 194 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 2: eighteen twenty two, Bouton and daguerre opened the Paris Diorama. 195 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 2: This scenographic entertainment was something completely new That two had 196 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: to design a theater to house and display what they 197 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 2: were working on. It had large scale images in common 198 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: with the panorama, but it offered entirely new spectacles for 199 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: audiences to witness, and we're going to talk more about 200 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: what the diorama was and how it was received in 201 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 2: just a moment, but first we'll pause for a quick 202 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: sponsor break. So in the diorama, scenes like landscapes and 203 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 2: architectural views were painted in large scale for audience viewing, 204 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 2: but in this version they were painted on linen so 205 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: they would be translucent. Then lighting effects were used to 206 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: bring the painting seemingly to life before the viewer's eyes. 207 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 2: This was again, remember before electrical current was used in 208 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: buildings by a number of decades, so Dagare had designed 209 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: the theater to make use of natural light. There were 210 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: windows and skylights around the theater that had shutters which 211 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: could be operated manually to great effect. To add to 212 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: the illusion, there were sound effects. Sometimes there would be 213 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: an actor to fill out the image in a three 214 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: dimensional way. There wasn't any story in play for these scenes. 215 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 2: It was just the magical illusion of feeling like you 216 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: were sitting in a meadow by a mountainside, or standing 217 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: near a brook, or looking out over the interior of 218 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: Canterbury Cathedral from a high up gallery. These scenes would 219 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: last for ten or fifteen minutes, and then a massive 220 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: turntable would rotate the image away and bring a second 221 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 2: one into view that would be similarly animated with light 222 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 2: and other effects. Both the public and critics really raved 223 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: over the diorama. Some were said to have been reluctant 224 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: to accept that they had been looked looking at a 225 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: two dimensional image that whole time. 226 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 227 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: There was allegedly one woman who asked to be led 228 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: down the steps of the cathedral and they're like, they're 229 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: not there. Uh. In less than a year, the business 230 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: had made back the money that it had cost to 231 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: open it and to operate it, and it started to 232 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: turn a profit. The next obvious step was to open 233 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 2: a second location, and that second one was in Regent's Park, London. 234 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: Because this had been a proven success already in Paris, 235 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: Bouton and de Guerre had no trouble finding investors for 236 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: their second theater, and when it opened, it was covered 237 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: extensively in the British press. On September twenty ninth, eighteen 238 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: twenty three, the Morning Chronicle of London ran a story 239 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: that was simply titled the Diorama. It read quote the 240 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: diorama which has long been an object of wonder and 241 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: delight at Paris is at length established in this metropolis. 242 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 2: A spacious building has been expressly constructed for this exhibition 243 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: in that part of the new Road which adjoins Portland Place, 244 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: at an expense which is said to have exceeded ten 245 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: thousand pounds, And on Saturday a select number of visitors 246 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 2: was admitted to a private inspection previous to it being 247 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: opened to the public on this day. There was also 248 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 2: an assurance in the write up to potential visitors that 249 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 2: this was definitely a very different thing than the panoramas, 250 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: which had been popular in London for years at that point. 251 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: It read quote the diorama differs in this respect from 252 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: the panorama that, instead of a circular view of the 253 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: objects represented, the whole picture is seen at once in perspective. 254 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: But it differs from it still more essentially in the 255 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: extraordinary fidelity with which the objects are depicted, and in 256 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: the completeness of the optical illusion. Later on, after describing 257 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: pretty much every corner of the theater in detail, the 258 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: journalist writes, quote, in the diorama, every thing contributes to 259 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: favor the illusion. The skill of the artist is the 260 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: first thing which strikes us in the panorama and the 261 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 2: last in the diorama. Both de Geer and Bhutan were 262 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: made knights in the French Legion of Honor by Louis 263 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: the eighteenth Many dioramas popped up in Europe and in 264 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: North America after their success in Paris and in London. 265 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: These were run by other operators who were hoping to 266 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: cash in on the popularity of the medium, but the 267 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: original partners kept developing shows in only their two theaters, 268 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: and while the diorama business was still growing, De gear 269 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: had begun to conduct experiments in image capture As early 270 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: as eighteen twenty four. He had set up a lab 271 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 2: in the basement of the Paris Diorama building so that 272 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: he could pursue his fascination with the field of photography, 273 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 2: although it was of course not called that yet. It 274 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: didn't get that name until eighteen thirty nine. He just 275 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: knew he was trying to capture light and use it 276 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: to replicate the imagery of the world around him. He 277 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: did not seem to know that a lot of other 278 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: men had already been doing the same thing for quite 279 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: a while, with no real success. It makes sense that 280 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: after creating the Diorama, De gear would feel driven to 281 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: find a new level of realism to keep audiences buying tickets. 282 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: Part of his drive was probably the realization that Bhutan 283 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 2: wasn't really interested in staying with the diorama long term. 284 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: Degher knew the success of the business was totally up 285 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: to him. Additionally, the business had a lot of overhead. 286 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: Every time a new scene was staged had to be 287 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: created from scratch, and that was expensive. But if de 288 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: Geer didn't keep new images rotating in audiences would just 289 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: stop coming. He eventually sold off his interest in the 290 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: London location just to keep his finances afloat, and according 291 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: to friends and acquaintances, none of whom were allowed to 292 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: see what he was up to. He was completely obsessed 293 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: with his secret project. His beloved wife Louise brought him food, 294 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: but even she was not allowed into the lab. He sometimes, 295 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: again according to friends, went for two to three days 296 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: without leaving that lab, often for going sleep for unhealthy 297 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 2: long stretches as he worked. He had been familiar with 298 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: the camera obscura for a while For a refresher. This 299 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 2: is a dark chamber, either a room or a box 300 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: that has a tiny hole to allow light in through 301 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: that hole, an image of whatever is outside of the 302 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: chamber is projected onto the opposite wall inverted camera obscura, 303 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: which means dark chamber in Latin, is a concept that's 304 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: been around since antiquity, so this was not a new 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: technology when Degear was alive, but he thought that somehow 306 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: it could be used not just to project images, but 307 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: also to capture the light somehow. Because Degear didn't really 308 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 2: document what he was doing, but also he probably didn't 309 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 2: really know what he was doing to be able to 310 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: put it into words, we don't have a lot of 311 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: information about how this whole thing played out for him. 312 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: There were certainly experiments being done by other men using 313 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: chemistry to try to create images with light, including the 314 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: work of people like Jacques Charles, who figured out that 315 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: you could capture a person's silhouette on paper by treating 316 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 2: the paper with light sensitive chemicals and then projecting the 317 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: person's shadow onto it. But even Charles's images were temporary. 318 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 2: The entire paper would eventually darken because it had been treated. 319 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: The use of chemical processes was also probably pretty challenging 320 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: for Degear thanks to his inconsistent education in his early years. 321 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: He really just did not have a command of chemistry 322 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 2: to start from, but he did have access to optics 323 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: expertise and the associated equipment thanks to his friend Charles Chevalier. 324 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 2: The Chevalier family business was in producing various scientific equipment, 325 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: including lenses, so at least in that area, de Geer 326 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 2: had a very steady supply. It was through Chevalier that 327 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 2: de Geer made a crucial connection that would finally give 328 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: him a breakthrough. Nissfort Nips, his cousin, to Chevalier's shop 329 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: to purchase a camera obscurra. Nissi Fournipps had been working 330 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 2: on a process to create pictures using sunlight since the 331 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: eighteen teens. He had used a camera to create a 332 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: heliograph with bitumen on paper in eighteen twenty six, but 333 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: that had needed eight hours of exposure to work. Even 334 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: with that eight hours, it was kind of gauzy and 335 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: faded in appearance, so he was trying to improve on that. 336 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 2: When he asked about a new camera obscura, Charles Chevalier 337 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: got Nip's address, gave it to Louis de Gear, who 338 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: in turn reached out to Nips. 339 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: Via a letter. 340 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 2: Both of these men were a bit cautious. Initially, de 341 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: Gear did not want to risk any potential business interest 342 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 2: by giving away what he had been working on, and 343 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 2: Niepps was not entirely clear who Degear was or how 344 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: he had gotten his address, and this letter out of 345 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: the blue seemed kind of rude and suspicious to him. 346 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: It was very forward. 347 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: It would be like if a stranger called you, Tracy 348 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 2: and went like, hey, can I have your research log 349 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 2: ins at the following three places? Yeah, and you would 350 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: be like him, excuse considering my response when I get 351 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 2: unsolicited pr pitches to a personal email address that I've 352 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: never publicized, I totally get this reaction. 353 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 354 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: So the reply that Niepp sent was brief and it 355 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 2: merely confirmed that, yes, he had been doing some experiments. 356 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: Along the lines of what de Gear was asking about. 357 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 2: It took Degher months to reply, but when he did, 358 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 2: he once again offended Niepps by asking for a sample 359 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 2: of his experiments. Nips knew that de Geer was the 360 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: man behind the popular diorama, so he started asking acquaintances 361 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: in Paris if they knew him. He found that Degere 362 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: had a reputation in the art world for his talent 363 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 2: and his work with light, but Niepps still only wrote 364 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: him a short reply without a sample. He said that 365 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: he thought they were on different paths. He's so polite 366 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: he wouldn't leave it unanswered, but he was kind of like, hey, 367 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 2: go with God, but uh, I'm doing something else, whether 368 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: out of genuine interest or just desperation. De Gear wrote 369 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 2: him once more, and this time he actually sent along 370 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 2: a sample of his own work, but he didn't know 371 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: that Nieps had also reached a sort of breaking point 372 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: where the family money was running out. He had spent 373 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: a lot on this effort, and he too was hitting 374 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: a dead end and not progressing any farther. He still 375 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: thought Degear might not be trustworthy, but he did reach 376 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: out with the suggestion that quote it should be of 377 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 2: mutual interest to reciprocate our efforts to attain the goal, 378 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: and he sent a sample which de Gear sent him 379 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: a pretty scathing critique of These two men finally had 380 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 2: a meeting in Paris in eighteen twenty seven. Understandably, they 381 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: remained pretty tentative with one another. Each was concerned that 382 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 2: he was lagging behind the other, but Niepp's described having 383 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: a pretty girl great time with the Gear, who had 384 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: given him a tour of the diorama. There was another 385 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 2: gap in their exchange due to the illness and death 386 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 2: of Niepp's brother, Claude, but eventually the two of them 387 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 2: were writing to one another with regularity. It was not 388 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: until autumn of eighteen twenty nine that the two officially 389 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: entered into a partnership, which had a ten year contract. 390 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: So we're going to. 391 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: Talk about some of the details of Niepps's progress in 392 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: image capture. After we first pause and hear from the sponsors. 393 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: They keep stuff you missed in history class going in 394 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: his work, Niepps had coated a paper with silver chloride 395 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 2: to capture an image from his studio window of the 396 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: landscape outside. 397 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: This is what he called heliography. 398 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: Eventually he made a more permanent image from that same window, 399 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: this time on a pewter plate. He wanted to make 400 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: a printable plate, and he had also managed to reproduce 401 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: an engraved portrait with his process and make two prints 402 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: from it. De Geer traveled to visit Nipp's and learned 403 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: about how he had progressed, and he took all of 404 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 2: the information he learned back to Paris so that he 405 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 2: could do more experiments. But then in eighteen thirty, everything 406 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 2: got complicated. The Diorama was in financial trouble, but Tom 407 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: finally left the business entirely, and the July Revolution, in 408 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 2: which Charles the tenth was deposed and King Louis Philippe 409 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: took on the Throat took the throne. That left France 410 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: in a tense time when letters that talked about something 411 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 2: like chemicals could easily be misconstrued as some kind of 412 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 2: revolutionary correspondence, so de Guer and Niepp stopped communicating. Things 413 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 2: were so financially tenuous that de Guer wrote to the 414 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: crown to ask for a promotion to officer in the 415 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: Legion of Honor. The thinking was that that would come 416 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: with a financial payment that would help to keep him 417 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: from his own financial ruin. But in the time that 418 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 2: he had free from working on the Diorama to try 419 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: to keep that going, Deguer learned Niepp's method of capturing images. 420 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: He wanted to see if he had any ideas for 421 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: how to move it forward. He and Yips were writing 422 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 2: to each other in codes so they could keep collaborating. 423 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: This was really a frantic time. De Gear declared bankruptcy 424 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 2: in March of eighteen thirty two, but he and Nips 425 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: kept working. Yeah. Eventually they came up with a list 426 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: where they gave chemical's number assignments and they each had it, 427 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 2: so they would just like use numbers in their letters, 428 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: which to me would look like a suspicious code that words. 429 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: So Nipps had used a bitumen coding that hardened when 430 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: exposed to light for some of his experiments, and de 431 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 2: Gear came up with a variation on that idea that 432 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: used distilled lavender oil to improve on the heliograph. That 433 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: lavender oil left a white residue in areas of the 434 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: image where light had hit it, and that created an 435 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: improved image than they had had before that the duo 436 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 2: called a faizototype. This was an improvement, but it wasn't 437 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: really a breakthrough, not at the level they needed, so 438 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: they kept working. I like to think that this smelled 439 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: really nice, I hope, so if nothing else, they could 440 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: say the studio smelled beautiful. 441 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 442 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 2: So Degear shifted his work back to using silver salts 443 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: instead of a resin based image capture. There's an apocryphal 444 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 2: story about how he got to his next breakthrough. In it, 445 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 2: he had accidentally left a spoon on an iodized plate, 446 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 2: and then later realized that a perfect shadow of the 447 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 2: spoon had been created on the plate when the light 448 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: hit it. So he started to purposefully sensitize the silver 449 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 2: on the plates that they were using. He did this 450 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: with iodine fumes. The Gear is said to have shared 451 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 2: this story verbally throughout his life, but he never wrote 452 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: it down. We don't really know how accurate it is. Yeah, 453 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: there are some questions about how much that story may 454 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: have changed in the tellings. Initially, Degear's work with iodine 455 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 2: to sensitize plates did not really return results. But he 456 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: never got to share his frustration about this with Nips 457 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: because Nisifor died suddenly in July eighteen thirty three after 458 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 2: having a stroke, and this left de Gear without the 459 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: scientific expertise of his collaborator. But once again he was 460 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: tenacious and he kept at the work, and an accident 461 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: is again said to have given him the next advancement. 462 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: Degere is said to have placed one of his polished 463 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 2: silver coated plates into a cupboard after having exposed it 464 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 2: in a camera obscura. The cupboard was a light proof 465 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: chemical cupboard that was intended for storing exposed plates but 466 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: he noticed when he returned to the place roughly half 467 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: an hour later, the image that he had exposed in 468 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: the camera obscura had already developed. A thermometer had broken 469 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 2: in the cupboard, and Luis de Gher realized that mercury 470 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 2: vapor was speeding the development. Yeah, again, this is apocryphal, 471 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 2: so in some versions of it you'll see that he 472 00:26:55,119 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: left it overnight, frustrated that it had not initially developed. Regardless, 473 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: this was a huge step forward, but the process was 474 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: still not solid, and that is mostly because the images 475 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: themselves were not. Permanence of those images remained a problem. 476 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 2: Those plates would just keep developing over time and the 477 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: image would be lost, so they would just like keep 478 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 2: having more details until they just became a big blob. Eventually, 479 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: Degear figured that problem out as well. It was merely 480 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 2: a matter of stopping the developing process by removing the 481 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: excess silver iodide from the plate. Degear used a salt 482 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: solution of sodium thiosulfate to do this. So the system 483 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 2: for making what would be called a Dagera type was 484 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 2: one polish a silver coated copper plate, two sensitize the 485 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 2: plate with iodine fumes, and place it in a light 486 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: tight plate. Three, slide that plate into the camera obscura 487 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 2: and then slide the light type covering open. Four expose 488 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: that for some number of minutes, and that was variable 489 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 2: depending on the light and the camera obscura and the 490 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 2: concentration of the chemicals that were used. So this required 491 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: some experience and know how of the person who was 492 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 2: trying to make the image. Step five develop the image 493 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: in mercury vapor and step six stop the development process 494 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 2: with AsSalt based solution. The first public mention of Degear's 495 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 2: work actually appeared in eighteen thirty five, so several years before. 496 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 2: Like the big release about it, that wasn't an article 497 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: in the Journal des Artiste, that was about new shows 498 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: at the Diorama, It wasn't about image capture at all. 499 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 2: But at the end of the write up, which had 500 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: no attribution as to its author and has even made 501 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: some people question whether maybe Deguer wrote this himself, there 502 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: was the following paragraph quote he has discovered, we are 503 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: told the means of collecting on a plate prepared by him, 504 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: the image produced by a camera obscura in such a 505 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 2: way that a portrait, a landscape, or any view projected 506 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: on this plate by an ordinary camera obscura leaves its 507 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: impression in light and shade, and this presents the most 508 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: perfect of all drawings. A preparation applied to this image 509 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 2: preserves it for an indefinite time. Physical science has perhaps 510 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 2: never presented a wonder comparable to this one. This was 511 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: a considerable announcement, but nothing much seems to have been 512 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: said about it for the entire year. But then architect 513 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: Alphonse Eugene Hubert wrote a response that amounted to basically, 514 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 2: I seriously doubt it. He had been trying to capture 515 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 2: camera obscure images as well, but had not had any luck, 516 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: so to him, it seemed highly unlikely that de Geer, 517 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 2: who did not have a scientific background, could have managed it. 518 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 2: By eighteen thirty seven, de Geer had tested and replicated 519 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: his process enough times that it was set he could 520 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: always get consistent results. As with other aspects of his 521 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: work that we don't really know what that process of 522 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 2: testing and refinement was like. We have no idea, truly 523 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 2: no idea the manner in which he arrived at realizing 524 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: each step along the way was the correct one. We 525 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: do know his process was different from all of the 526 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: other photographic processes that were in development by other people 527 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: that were having problems. The Academy of Sciences heard a 528 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: presentation that laid out exactly how de Geer's process worked 529 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: on January seventh, eighteen thirty nine. That lecture was not 530 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: given by de Geer, but by Francois Arago. De Gear 531 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: couldn't do it. He had felt ill, or at least 532 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: he claimed he did. We don't know he at least 533 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: he said he felt ill. He may have had nerves, 534 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 2: and that is why an astronomer first explained photography at 535 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 2: the Academy of Sciences. But to Gear had decided to 536 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: name this process after himself, of course, and that was 537 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 2: something that really bothered Nissophornief's son Isidore, who felt that 538 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 2: his father should really be recognized. But to Gear really 539 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: thought that he had changed the approach so much from 540 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: the heliograph works that Niepps had done that the name 541 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: shift was warranted. An In a revised version of the 542 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: contract that he had originally agreed to you with Niepps, 543 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 2: Degear offered his former partner's family financial rights to half 544 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: of the money made from Deghera typing, and the promise 545 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 2: that Niepps's name would always be included in formal announcements. 546 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 2: Isadore Niepps signed this new deal. In terms of making 547 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 2: money from this work, Louis de Gher took an interesting approach. 548 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 2: He knew from his experience with the diorama that imitators 549 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: would pop up as soon as he filed for a patent, 550 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: and in France at the time, there was really not 551 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: much that could be done about it, so instead he 552 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: sold it to the French government, and in turn, the 553 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: French government released it free to the world as a 554 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 2: gift on August nineteenth, eighteen thirty nine. As part of 555 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 2: the sale to the government, de Geer had arranged for 556 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 2: annual payments to be made to both himself and Nieps's family. 557 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 2: Degere got six thousand francs a year and nips As 558 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 2: got four thousand. The gear did manage to patent his 559 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 2: process in England, Ireland and Scotland before the French government 560 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 2: released it, so he maintained his rights there and in 561 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 2: their colonies. Yeah, he did try for a while some 562 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: other business sort of plans to try and make money 563 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: off of this, but none of those were really working out, 564 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 2: which is why he sold it to the government. As 565 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: the Dagheera type took on a life of its own 566 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 2: and the field of photography continued to advance through other 567 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 2: inventors improving upon it, da Gear retired again. 568 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: He was financially set. 569 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 2: A fire destroyed a lot of his early work in 570 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: eighteen thirty nine, and he did not rebuild his burnt 571 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: studio after that. He did give some presentations and lessons 572 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 2: on occasion, but according to most people, he was actually 573 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: kind of shy, particularly about talking about his achievement, and 574 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 2: all he really wanted to do was go back to painting, 575 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: and he did a lot of that in his later years. 576 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 2: During the eighteen forties, he painted a number of huge 577 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 2: pieces churches in Paris. Louis de Guerret died of a 578 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: heart attack on July tenth, eighteen fifty one, at his 579 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 2: home in Brisumern, just outside of Paris. In the time 580 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 2: between the announcement of the da gettype and his death, 581 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 2: other innovators had come up with new ways to capture 582 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: imagery with light. That included William Henry Fox Talbot, who 583 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: patented a paper negative process, the Cali type in eighteen 584 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 2: forty one. The garrottype studios opened in Europe and the 585 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: United States, and two photography journals were launched in the US. 586 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: They were the Dagarian Art Journal and the Photographic Art Journal. 587 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 2: And then, immediately before his death, starting in May of 588 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: eighteen fifty one, a Dagherot type exhibition had been mounted 589 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: at the Great Exhibition of London. 590 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: Which is another thing that comes up a lot. 591 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 2: Also, Hey, surprise, this is the first of a sort 592 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 2: of two parter that we're doing on early photography. They 593 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 2: are stand the Loan episodes, but they're linked thematically, and 594 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 2: on an upcoming episode we are going to discuss one 595 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 2: of the people who took Degear's new technology kind of 596 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: ran with it. 597 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: Oh, Louis Decade. 598 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If 599 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 2: you'd like to send us a note, our email addresses 600 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com and you can subscribe 601 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 2: to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 602 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.