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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey thereon, Welcome back to the latest episode of the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe with Tom Berducci.

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Speaker 2: That's me and Joe Madden. That's you, Joe. How you doing.

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Speaker 3: I am doing well, Tommy.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing that we're still it seems like a regular

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Speaker 1: episode now here talking about managers getting fired Joe. Right

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Speaker 1: this time it's Brandon Hyde of the Baltimore Orioles. I

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Speaker 1: know Hyder was on your staff in Chicago. You've known

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Speaker 1: them for a long time. Give me your initial reaction

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Speaker 1: when you heard the Orioles were making a change.

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Speaker 3: Well, obviously their record's not good. And then you're always

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Speaker 3: at the mercy of decision makers trying to decide why

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Speaker 3: is the record not good? And you don't have to

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Speaker 3: look very far under the hood to realize why they

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Speaker 3: weren't doing so well and it had nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with Hyder. I was really disappointed. Again, it's just the

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Speaker 3: the way the world works. Sometimes in our industry, there

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Speaker 3: are some gms or presidents that get it that, really,

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Speaker 3: I think, evaluate the situation better and then really try

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Speaker 3: to address the absolute reason why we're having a hard

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Speaker 3: time as opposed to those that just want to possibly,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't want to say safe face, but

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Speaker 3: maybe safe face and offer up the sacrificial land. Because

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Speaker 3: Hyder is that good. Did the guy's manager of the

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Speaker 3: year two years ago? They won ninety some games. Last year,

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Speaker 3: of course wasn't everything you're expecting, but this is a

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Speaker 3: young team that still is sending These guys are still learning.

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Speaker 3: They caught the baseball world by storm a couple of

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Speaker 3: years ago, and then all of a sudden a reality

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Speaker 3: sits in and the league adjust to them. Now they

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Speaker 3: have to adjust back to the league. So I was

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Speaker 3: really disappointed. Quite frankly, I've been texting with Hyder. I

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Speaker 3: didn't like it. I don't think it makes any sense.

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Speaker 3: I know the record is not good, but it's not

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Speaker 3: his fault.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent agree.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about it, Joe, this guy

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Speaker 1: went to back to back postseasons with a team that

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Speaker 1: he guided through a huge rebuilding program.

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Speaker 3: That's right here.

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Speaker 1: We are a quarter of the way through the next season,

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Speaker 1: after back to back postseasons, and they say there's the

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Speaker 1: door leave. It's obviously not a manager's problem. It's a

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Speaker 1: roster construction problem. Yeah, there's some injuries here, but my

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Speaker 1: goodness that you know every team.

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Speaker 2: You know this, Joe, every team has injuries.

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Speaker 1: It's a matter of how much depth do you have

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Speaker 1: to withstand those injuries.

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Speaker 2: And the Orioles to me, were never a playoff team

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Speaker 2: this year.

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Speaker 1: I'd never liked the roster, going back to the trade

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Speaker 1: deadline last year, Halloy Jmenez, Trevor Rodgers in this passed

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Speaker 1: off season.

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Speaker 2: You know, Corbyn Burns leaves. I get it. Maybe you

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Speaker 2: couldn't contend any for.

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Speaker 1: A guy who wants to go back home to Arizona,

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Speaker 1: but he replaced them with Charlie Morton forty one years old.

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Speaker 1: As far as your offense goes, you lose Anthony Santander

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Speaker 1: and you pick up Tyler O'Neill, Gary Sanchez.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just you look at this team, Joe.

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Speaker 1: To me, when this season started, I did not like

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Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles, and they're playing worse than I thought

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Speaker 1: they were. Now I understand a lot of this is

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Speaker 1: face saving. You pretty much hinted at this, Joe, right,

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Speaker 1: you need escapegoate here. What happened to me is obviously

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Speaker 1: they're struggling, and then they had that lost Friday night,

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Speaker 1: which is about as bat of a loss as you can.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of the equivalent to the Rockies, and that

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Speaker 1: twenty one nothing lost to the Padres. They lost in

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Speaker 1: a way that nobody's ever lost a game before. They

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Speaker 1: put twenty runners on base, they stranded fifteen, they struck

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Speaker 1: out fifteen times, and they scored only three runs. It

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Speaker 1: was an abomination. They swung a miss thirty two times,

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Speaker 1: and they lost the game when the closer Felix Bautista,

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Speaker 1: who by the way, did not get a swing a

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Speaker 1: miss and his velocity was down across the board. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: he's covering first base on a ground ball to the

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Speaker 1: right side with a runner on second base, bang bank

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Speaker 1: play at first.

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Speaker 2: The runner is safe. He is not alert to the

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Speaker 2: trail runner.

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Speaker 1: And that's how the Washington Nationals scored the winning run

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Speaker 1: with Joe.

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Speaker 2: You've seen it a million times.

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Speaker 1: How many times in spring training the guys do this

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Speaker 1: ad nauseum cover first, check the trail runner.

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Speaker 2: He didn't do that, let his guard down. So this

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Speaker 2: lack of alertness.

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Speaker 1: You had Atlee Rushman behind the plate on a pass ball,

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Speaker 1: jogging after the ball. So the runner who was stealing

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Speaker 1: at first base goes all the way to third. You

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Speaker 1: had Jackson Holliday, who's covering on that play, who vacated

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Speaker 1: the bag instead of deking the runner to make sure

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Speaker 1: there was a throw to force a slide, vacated the bag.

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Speaker 1: The runners heads up now that there is no play,

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Speaker 1: and that's why he went to third. So that's the

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Speaker 1: kind of ugly loss. And listen, it's a super small

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Speaker 1: sample size. It's one loss, I get it. But for

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Speaker 1: if the ownership is on the fence, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a last straw kind of game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and again I'm still not blaming him. I mean,

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Speaker 3: obviously there's a lethargy among the group based on their record,

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Speaker 3: and they got to shake and they got to fight

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Speaker 3: through it, no question. But even going back beyond what

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Speaker 3: you're saying there, just I was reading some stuff. I

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Speaker 3: think they sounded like eight guys last year something that

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Speaker 3: that effect in their accumulative war if you're into that stuff,

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Speaker 3: is less than one. It's a point in negative point eight.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and they did. You're right, they did boost

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Speaker 1: their payroll. I think they had the highest percentage boosting

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Speaker 1: their payroll. But how did you spend that money that's

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Speaker 1: not on the manager.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's it exactly. That's my point. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: start looking at this is this is why. And I'm

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Speaker 3: already going into the end because I already had my

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Speaker 3: quote of the day based on all this. But this

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Speaker 3: is this is Brian Cashman. This, this is like why

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Speaker 3: I love Cash. The Yankees stunk a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 3: Cash did not panic. He did not start slicing everybody off.

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Speaker 3: He went and he was accountable to the whole thing,

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Speaker 3: got together with the whole group. We got to get

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Speaker 3: better at this. Where are we lacking right here? And

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Speaker 3: he still has the same group there that was there

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and they're doing pretty good

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Speaker 3: right now. There are times when leadership has to suck

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Speaker 3: it up and admit that they're the problem and not

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Speaker 3: not the the In this situation, field staff compared to

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Speaker 3: a front office. To me, the analytical department is culpable

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Speaker 3: as much as anything. If you're Gonn bringing O'Neil and all

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Speaker 3: these other guys, Sanchez to replace the people that had

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Speaker 3: left the stand there, et cetera, bad guess. And then

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Speaker 3: of course Charlie Warreon, he's been so good for a while,

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Speaker 3: but my god, forty one years old, what do you expect.

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Speaker 3: There's such a lot of bad assumptions on their part, right,

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Speaker 3: And I know these are all analytical decisions. There's no question.

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Speaker 3: When you're starting to pick up guys like O'Neil, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: you start looking for this platoon advantage stuff, and this

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Speaker 3: is something that the analytical department is going to jump

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Speaker 3: into and attempt to be able to put their stamp

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Speaker 3: of approval on this and eventually believe it's going to

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Speaker 3: work out. And then it doesn't, that's okay. Well we

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Speaker 3: all screw up on a decision, but that's okay. But

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Speaker 3: then don't start blaming somebody else. That's where I have

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Speaker 3: an issue with this whole thing. It's something that permeates

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Speaker 3: the entire industry, and that's where I think we need

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Speaker 3: to get better when it comes down to deciphering what

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Speaker 3: has gone wrong here, Let's do a better job of that.

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Speaker 3: And you stop putting out your manager, your hitting coach,

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Speaker 3: your pitching coaches, et cetera. Putting them out there. There's

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Speaker 3: a reason why. It's not the reason why. It's the

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Speaker 3: acquisitional process that's flawed. That's what it comes down to

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Speaker 3: all the analytical departments. They have their own little cocktail

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Speaker 3: that they derived their decision making from. Put some better

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Speaker 3: ingredients in your cocktail and you might get a better results.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Tyler O'Neill, to me, he's a platoon player. You know,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't hit right hand pitching. He's had one season,

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Speaker 1: he's turning thirty years old. He's had one season where

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Speaker 1: he's had five hundred played appearances. He doesn't stay healthy.

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Speaker 1: He's not an everyday player. I'm sorry that that was

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Speaker 1: a mistake. They just looked at numbers last year and

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Speaker 1: thought they needed help against left handed pitching, and that's

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Speaker 1: why they signed Sanchez and O'Neill, and both them been

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Speaker 1: hurt and ineffective. There's a lot to be concerned about

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Speaker 1: with this team. Let me start with Adlie Rushman. That

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Speaker 1: guy's gone backward. And let's not forget this ownership group,

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Speaker 1: this front office. Their first draft, they had Bobby Witt

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Speaker 1: Junior and Adlie Rushman and they took a catcher one

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Speaker 1: to one. I have a five tools shortstop.

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Speaker 2: Now. Adlie, you know, to his credit.

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Speaker 1: To the big leagues and looked like a polished player,

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Speaker 1: a leader, a catcher behind the plate switch hitter great,

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Speaker 1: but historically you don't draft catchers that high, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's happened to him.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 1: In his last calendar year, he's hitting two twenty with

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Speaker 1: a three to zero five on base percentage. His bad

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Speaker 1: at slow, he's a ground ball machine. Last year, first

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Speaker 1: time probably failed in his life at anything, had a

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Speaker 1: really high chase rate. This year he's been great as

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Speaker 1: far as getting back to plate discipline. He's just not

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Speaker 1: hitting the ball hard. It's that simple, and I'd be

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Speaker 1: concerned about that if I'm the Orioles that this has

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Speaker 1: gone on now for a little more than a year

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Speaker 1: and he's supposed to be one of your franchise core guys.

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Speaker 1: So I look at Rushman, I look at Heston Kirstad,

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Speaker 1: who's getting some run and really not doing much with it.

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Speaker 1: He's a lot of swing and missing in this game.

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Speaker 1: I don't like him defensively as well. Maybe the core

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Speaker 1: isn't what we thought it was with this Baltimore Orioles team.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm talking about. You take a deep, deep

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Speaker 3: dive like what they're they're analyzing. What their consuer ing

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Speaker 3: here is that the staff there has not done a

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Speaker 3: good enough job to make these guys better. Rushman like

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Speaker 3: hit the ground running, like you said a couple of

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Speaker 3: years ago. So he's regressed. Why I want to know why?

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Speaker 3: If the power you explained to one part about it

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Speaker 3: where he started to chase, and now he's not chasing.

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Speaker 3: That's good that happens, But why is the power so

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Speaker 3: deficient all of a sudden. There's got to be reasons why,

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Speaker 3: But that that needs to be I don't know. That's

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Speaker 3: gonna They're gonna look for the analytical reasons. They're going

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Speaker 3: to look at all the data regarding that exit velocities,

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Speaker 3: what maybe is a bat path, all those different kind

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Speaker 3: of things. But what's he thinking? Has he gotten weaker?

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Speaker 3: Is it all this catch and he already taken some toll?

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Speaker 3: Maybe the body's not good enough. I don't know, but

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Speaker 3: that's that's a bad process as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 3: The other kid cures stat I haven't seen enough of him,

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Speaker 3: but I know they had a lot of high hopes there.

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Speaker 3: Now the shortstop Henderson, here's the guy. A couple years

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Speaker 3: ago we were arguing who was better him or Bobby

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Speaker 3: Wood Jr. And I think is still a legitimate argument.

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Speaker 3: I still I'm a wit guy. But there's there's a

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Speaker 3: bunch of guys there within this team that are underperforming. Why.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why. I don't watch them often enough.

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Speaker 3: But again, like you said, maybe it was an over

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Speaker 3: evaluation at some point, and that happens. That happens when

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Speaker 3: a team bust on the scene earlier, a couple of

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Speaker 3: young guys. It hit the ground run and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, the assumption is that they're going to be

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Speaker 3: like that for ten the next ten years. Not always true.

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Speaker 3: Your mind gets in a way, your body breaks down somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Maybe this whatever it is within his body is not

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Speaker 3: feeling quite as good as it did when he first

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Speaker 3: arrived here. There's a lot of underlying reasons why, but

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Speaker 3: the overarching reason is not because the manager is not

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Speaker 3: good at what he does anymore. That's the part that

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Speaker 3: really bums me out. A lot of these guys feel

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Speaker 3: like they're forced to make a change just for the

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Speaker 3: sake of change. And listen, there's nothing wrong with that

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Speaker 3: if you've really identified that as the problem. But please

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Speaker 3: take the time to identify the real problem. That's why

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Speaker 3: I've always had issues like I've had press conferences where

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Speaker 3: teams start. MY team might be struggling and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden you get questions as to why, and my

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Speaker 3: answer would almost always be listening, let me, let's let's

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Speaker 3: really look and find out what the real reason is

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Speaker 3: behind is and not just the superficial stuff that everybody

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Speaker 3: could jump on and you provide a sacrificial lamp. I

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Speaker 3: could go on and on about this. I've been in

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Speaker 3: situations like this, so I do not believe Hyder was

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Speaker 3: the issue. I believe Hider's a very good manager. I

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Speaker 3: know he's strong in the clubhouse, he knows what he believes,

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Speaker 3: he's got a sharp baseball mind. I know that was

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Speaker 3: not the issue. So yeah, I'm banging on him a

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Speaker 3: little bit because I don't like it. I really thought

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Speaker 3: they're going to be in a hunt this year, and

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Speaker 3: for whatever reason, something is disconnected there and I'm telling

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Speaker 3: you what, it's not in the clubhouse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you have to start with the pitching, though, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, only the Rockies have a higher era than

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Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles. And as I said, you know, I'll

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Speaker 1: listen to Grayson Rodrigue is not there. Andrew Kittridge not there.

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Speaker 1: But again, every team has injuries. What kind of depth

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Speaker 1: do you have to survive? Now, this group in Baltimore

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Speaker 1: front office, they came from Houston. They supposedly cracked the

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Speaker 1: code on how to develop young pitchers and get swings,

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Speaker 1: and I haven't seen that in Baltimore. Remember this year

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Speaker 1: they brought the fence in the wall in left field,

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Speaker 1: which they probably should have. They over corrected and made

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Speaker 1: it way too high and deep, and they brought it

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Speaker 1: in and they don't have the kind of pitching staff

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Speaker 1: now to make that seem like it was a good decision.

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Speaker 1: So to me, I look at the pure stuff on

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Speaker 1: this staff, Joe, and it's not very good. You know,

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Speaker 1: they signed Kyle Gibson late. Now he's gone. He had

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Speaker 1: four of the most awful starts you would ever just imagine.

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Speaker 1: Just not a major league pitcher. I hate to say

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Speaker 1: that because Kyle's had a great career. He's a great guy.

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Speaker 1: But stuff wise, again, I don't know what you're looking

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Speaker 1: at to sign these guys. Charlie Morton fifteen million dollars. Well,

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Speaker 1: the Mets go out and get a Griffin Canning to

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Speaker 1: solve their issues. I mean, these things go on and on.

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Speaker 1: But I looked at this staff when the season started

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Speaker 1: before the injuries and said, no, this is not good enough.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, that's not on the manager.

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Speaker 3: He did not assemble the staff. Baseball managers have very

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Speaker 3: little input regarding their rosters anymore. They don't, But there

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Speaker 3: was a time and I actually thought they staffed too

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Speaker 3: much power. But I was coming up in the eighties

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Speaker 3: early nineties, my sit in on meetings, and what happened

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Speaker 3: at that time was managers and coaches would be influenced

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Speaker 3: based on how a player played against their team. Only

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Speaker 3: we didn't get to see the magnitude of games that

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Speaker 3: everybody's able to see now or scout now via data, video, whatever.

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Speaker 3: That was not part of the landscape at that time.

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Speaker 3: You scouted based on what you saw against you how

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Speaker 3: many of her times that year. So I always thought

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Speaker 3: that was a bad method for acquisition when the manager

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Speaker 3: and the staff had way too much input in that

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Speaker 3: because they were only based on what they saw in

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Speaker 3: spring training. Maybe a kid was doing well then, but

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Speaker 3: he's not doing well now. Or the teams that were

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Speaker 3: playing against they would scout them obviously, and a guy

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Speaker 3: would have a hot series against them, all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden they like them. It's not like the NFL. The NFL,

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Speaker 3: I believe the NFL coaches and staff have a greater

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Speaker 3: input into this decision making process because the way the

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Speaker 3: timing works with the draft, and they can and they're

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Speaker 3: all they ever do is study film anyway, and that's

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Speaker 3: the primary way to do this. So NFL coaches can't

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Speaker 3: sit down. They could watch all this, they could interview

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Speaker 3: at the end of their season before the draft, and

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Speaker 3: so they could be more involved in this decision making process,

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Speaker 3: which I think is great. But on the baseball side,

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Speaker 3: it's impossible. It's impossible. I'm here to tell you the

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Speaker 3: way our season works, all the work you have to

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Speaker 3: do on a daily basis, the scouting of it. Here

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Speaker 3: comes the draft. You got your team to worry about it. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: there's no way a major league cut manager and staff

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Speaker 3: have the same kind of input I've had. Back with

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Speaker 3: the Rays, they gave me a video buster Posey versus

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Speaker 3: Timmy Beckham. That was the decision at that time. When

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Speaker 3: the race took Beckham, I I don't know with Posy

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Speaker 3: taking beforemer after him. I can't remember that specifically.

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Speaker 2: The Rays passed on Posey. Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 3: So that was that was That was a video being

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Speaker 3: passed around at that time. I don't even know how

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Speaker 3: much was based on the fact they didn't want to

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Speaker 3: pay whatever Posy might have wanted. That's another story. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: all this stuff to me is really difficult for me.

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Speaker 3: I can't concede. I can't concede on this one whatsoever

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Speaker 3: because I know so at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: managers and coaches on the major league level will get

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Speaker 3: very little input in regards to who's on that team

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Speaker 3: and in today's world, who plays and how often. And

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Speaker 3: you know, you have discussions about a particular player, and

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Speaker 3: I know how I feel about this guy, and I

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Speaker 3: start my discussion and maybe I'm taking the negative or

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Speaker 3: the conside to this argument, where the front office staff

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Speaker 3: and the analytical department it's more pro of this particular

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Speaker 3: player by the end, and they want to know what

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Speaker 3: I think. But by the end of the discussion, regardless

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Speaker 3: of what I think, it's going to be, the conversation

336
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Speaker 3: is going to flow in that direction. I'm just telling

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Speaker 3: you it's absolute fact and truth. So for those of

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Speaker 3: you that are Hyder fans, just know that he's really

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Speaker 3: good at what he does. It was not properly done

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Speaker 3: right there, right now, and I think they're going to

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Speaker 3: suffer for it for a bit. Last point, who's going

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Speaker 3: to replace him? Right when you're gonna do something like this?

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Speaker 3: I mean, if I'm a GM and I think before

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Speaker 3: the season began or whatever, I have to always keep

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Speaker 3: it back in my mind. What if this goes wrong

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Speaker 3: or sideways all of a sudden, my guy isn't doing

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Speaker 3: what I thought he can do or what he was like,

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Speaker 3: who's going to be that next guy? And you always

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Speaker 3: need to know that. So who's going to replace him?

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Speaker 3: That's a really interesting question to me too.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point, Joe. I've always said that when

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Speaker 1: a team makes a move, you better know that you

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Speaker 1: have somebody better on hand. I don't like the just

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Speaker 1: the knee jerk reaction. Well, let's get the manager, then

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Speaker 1: we'll figure out where we're going next. No, you better

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Speaker 1: have that in mind right now. You know, they named

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Speaker 1: the third base coach, Tony Mansilino as the manager. I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming it's interim. We'll see. You know, he did manage

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Speaker 1: in the minor leagues for four seasons. He ran the

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Speaker 1: games when Terry Francone and Cleveland was out during the

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Speaker 1: COVID year of twenty twenty. Of course, his father has

362
00:16:51,118 --> 00:16:53,958
Speaker 1: been a longtime baseball guy. I've been with the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: Braves most recently last six seven years in player development.

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Speaker 2: So a good baseball guy.

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Speaker 1: But I don't get the sense that you know this

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Speaker 1: is their long term answer and who it is I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but I know this the Baltimore Orioles.

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Speaker 2: Uh, they've earn't every.

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Speaker 1: Bit of this fifteen to thirty record, and they're not

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Speaker 1: making the playoffs. I'll tell you that right now. You're

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Speaker 1: just not this bad and all of a sudden turn

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Speaker 1: it around and they're really bad. I mentioned the pitching.

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Speaker 1: The batting average is the worst in the dh ERA

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Speaker 1: for any Baltimore team. They've won only four games this

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Speaker 1: year when the opponents scored first. I mean, that's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: They're four and twenty one. I'm not talking about being

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Speaker 1: down five runs even at the one run on the

378
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Speaker 1: board by the other team. They don't come back. They're

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Speaker 1: oh and twenty five when they trail after six innings,

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Speaker 1: and going back to last April, if are down four,

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Speaker 1: they're oh and fifty six. This is the team over

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Speaker 1: the last year, last one hundred and sixty two games.

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Speaker 1: So this is not just a bad month seventy seven

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Speaker 1: and eighty five. So it just and we talked about

385
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Speaker 1: this before, Joe, this idea that you're going to build

386
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Speaker 1: a sustainable winner is nonsense. If you're a fan, don't

387
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Speaker 1: buy it from your team unless you're the Dodgers and

388
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Speaker 1: the Yankees.

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Speaker 2: It ain't happening.

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Speaker 1: To build a sustainable winner, you have to seize these windows.

391
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Speaker 1: And we thought the Orioles had a window that opened

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Speaker 1: in twenty three. Great team, and you know they progressed

393
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Speaker 1: a little bit last year, but they did make the postseason.

394
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Speaker 1: They did have a four second half. The window's gone

395
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Speaker 1: right now the Oriols right now to really reassess where

396
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Speaker 1: they are as an organization. So when you have a

397
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Speaker 1: core group and it looks like they're ready to win,

398
00:18:27,398 --> 00:18:29,678
Speaker 1: you need to pay that off the way the twenty

399
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Speaker 1: fifteen Royals did by going out and getting Ben's Oberst

400
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Speaker 1: and Johnny Quato. Don't talk to me like you're going

401
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Speaker 1: to contend every year for the next decade.

402
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Speaker 2: It doesn't happen.

403
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Speaker 3: In the game.

404
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Speaker 1: You need to really go all in when you've got

405
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Speaker 1: a team that's ready to win because you can't keep

406
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Speaker 1: them together, and injuries happen, and sustainable winning just doesn't

407
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Speaker 1: happen unless you're in New York or LA.

408
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Speaker 3: The misconception is that it's easy to win a major

409
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Speaker 3: League baseball game. We often used to laugh in a dugout,

410
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Speaker 3: it's really hard to win a major League baseball game.

411
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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what it looks like from

412
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Speaker 3: a distance, and some teams are obviously better than others.

413
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Speaker 3: But after you win a major League baseball game, it's like, Wow,

414
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Speaker 3: you just exhale, and it's such a wonderful feeling on

415
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Speaker 3: a nightly basis to win a major League baseball game.

416
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Speaker 3: There's so much going on. Both sides are talented. There's

417
00:19:17,278 --> 00:19:20,398
Speaker 3: a laser thin line between winning and losing, even among

418
00:19:20,438 --> 00:19:23,238
Speaker 3: the best of the worst. Of course, the best have

419
00:19:23,358 --> 00:19:29,238
Speaker 3: the guys that are obviously paid for better, longer lineage,

420
00:19:29,278 --> 00:19:31,918
Speaker 3: and probably make less mistakes. That's probably one of the

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00:19:31,918 --> 00:19:34,358
Speaker 3: biggest things. Probably make a lot less mental mistakes. And

422
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Speaker 3: at the other end of it, you're going to see

423
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Speaker 3: a lot of young guys coming up, great bodies, athleticism,

424
00:19:38,478 --> 00:19:40,518
Speaker 3: et cetera. But don't really know how to play the game,

425
00:19:41,158 --> 00:19:44,358
Speaker 3: and there is something to be said about learning how

426
00:19:44,398 --> 00:19:48,038
Speaker 3: to win. What does that mean on a daily basis? Man,

427
00:19:48,118 --> 00:19:49,838
Speaker 3: it's kind of a competitive thing and you're not going

428
00:19:49,918 --> 00:19:51,998
Speaker 3: to be denied and you're not going to make the

429
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Speaker 3: To me, it's probably there's no way to prove this,

430
00:19:54,758 --> 00:19:57,718
Speaker 3: but it's about making fewer, way fewer mental mistakes than

431
00:19:57,718 --> 00:19:59,478
Speaker 3: the other teammates. And it really comes down to the

432
00:19:59,518 --> 00:20:02,318
Speaker 3: mental mistakes and a lot of games between winning and losing.

433
00:20:02,358 --> 00:20:03,998
Speaker 3: So I could go on and on about this, but

434
00:20:04,318 --> 00:20:07,198
Speaker 3: it is personal for me on this one. Emotionally, I

435
00:20:07,238 --> 00:20:09,798
Speaker 3: know how good Hider is. I know how good he is,

436
00:20:10,358 --> 00:20:13,238
Speaker 3: and to evaluate it this way, to me, was absolutely

437
00:20:13,278 --> 00:20:15,238
Speaker 3: wrong and I'm just not going to hold back on

438
00:20:15,278 --> 00:20:15,758
Speaker 3: this one.

439
00:20:15,838 --> 00:20:19,438
Speaker 1: Well, we will check in on how the Rockies and

440
00:20:20,038 --> 00:20:23,118
Speaker 1: Pirates are doing. The other two teams have changed managers,

441
00:20:23,118 --> 00:20:26,998
Speaker 1: will do that and we'll talk about perhaps the next show. Hey, Otani,

442
00:20:27,078 --> 00:20:29,158
Speaker 1: I can't believe I just said that, but we'll talk

443
00:20:29,198 --> 00:20:39,438
Speaker 1: about that right after this shortbreak.

444
00:20:41,598 --> 00:20:43,518
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts.

445
00:20:44,518 --> 00:20:47,278
Speaker 1: It was interesting, Joe that all three teams have fired managers,

446
00:20:47,318 --> 00:20:49,878
Speaker 1: and I always believe that for a team like Baltimore.

447
00:20:50,238 --> 00:20:52,958
Speaker 2: Once other teams have fired managers.

448
00:20:52,478 --> 00:20:55,278
Speaker 1: It makes it easier for them to do it right. Yeah,

449
00:20:55,558 --> 00:20:58,758
Speaker 1: but in all three cases they just went internally with

450
00:20:59,158 --> 00:21:03,758
Speaker 1: replacements for veteran managers. Iraqis since they fired Buddy Black,

451
00:21:03,958 --> 00:21:07,478
Speaker 1: they're one and five the Pirates. I mean, they've been

452
00:21:07,558 --> 00:21:11,678
Speaker 1: on just an incredible streak now, twenty three straight games

453
00:21:11,718 --> 00:21:14,798
Speaker 1: where they have not scored more than four runs. So

454
00:21:14,958 --> 00:21:17,518
Speaker 1: Don Kelly might be a good baseball guy in time.

455
00:21:18,358 --> 00:21:21,438
Speaker 1: Nothing's changed there. That's the thing about these changes, Joe.

456
00:21:21,558 --> 00:21:24,238
Speaker 1: It used to be maybe you brought somebody in, you know,

457
00:21:24,398 --> 00:21:27,678
Speaker 1: Billy Martin and Jack McKeon type, who was really going

458
00:21:27,718 --> 00:21:30,278
Speaker 1: to change the culture and shake some things up. I

459
00:21:30,318 --> 00:21:32,838
Speaker 1: don't see that happening in all three places here, I

460
00:21:32,878 --> 00:21:33,358
Speaker 1: really don't.

461
00:21:33,678 --> 00:21:37,918
Speaker 3: No, it's true. There's they they don't want these guys

462
00:21:37,918 --> 00:21:39,718
Speaker 3: to come in and do anything differently. They want these

463
00:21:39,718 --> 00:21:43,478
Speaker 3: guys to come in and listen. That's it. The manager

464
00:21:43,638 --> 00:21:45,998
Speaker 3: today's world, we've alluded to in the last segment and

465
00:21:46,118 --> 00:21:47,798
Speaker 3: not alluded to it. Set it straight up, has very

466
00:21:47,838 --> 00:21:51,558
Speaker 3: little influence, very little influence. It's the game has run

467
00:21:51,638 --> 00:21:54,318
Speaker 3: so much by what happens above them that when you

468
00:21:54,318 --> 00:21:58,678
Speaker 3: bring somebody in, they don't want they being organizations, they

469
00:21:58,718 --> 00:22:00,958
Speaker 3: don't want somebody to come in with a strong personality

470
00:22:00,998 --> 00:22:03,918
Speaker 3: like you're talking about guys that have made brought along

471
00:22:04,078 --> 00:22:05,878
Speaker 3: change in the past, because they don't want to give

472
00:22:05,958 --> 00:22:08,718
Speaker 3: him that kind of quote unquote power in order to

473
00:22:10,118 --> 00:22:14,638
Speaker 3: make the changes they're they're just they're not change agents

474
00:22:14,678 --> 00:22:18,798
Speaker 3: at all. They're just they're there because they're young, they're controllable,

475
00:22:18,918 --> 00:22:20,638
Speaker 3: or they've been around for a bit. And again still

476
00:22:20,678 --> 00:22:22,958
Speaker 3: what somewhat controllable are a lot of controllable because that's

477
00:22:22,958 --> 00:22:24,958
Speaker 3: how the game's run today. It's just just a matter

478
00:22:24,998 --> 00:22:27,478
Speaker 3: of fact. I'm not saying anything that I know a

479
00:22:27,518 --> 00:22:30,918
Speaker 3: lot of guys that coaches, players would ever listen to

480
00:22:30,958 --> 00:22:33,958
Speaker 3: our podcast, and they always come back and they appreciate

481
00:22:34,038 --> 00:22:35,678
Speaker 3: that we're saying these kinds of things. But it's true.

482
00:22:35,758 --> 00:22:38,958
Speaker 3: So they're not change agents. They're there to carry out

483
00:22:38,958 --> 00:22:42,358
Speaker 3: the wishes of the front office. Most of the time.

484
00:22:42,358 --> 00:22:44,558
Speaker 3: They're able to communicate well with the media, which is

485
00:22:44,598 --> 00:22:48,318
Speaker 3: also really important today's genre of professional sports. I get

486
00:22:48,318 --> 00:22:50,438
Speaker 3: all that. So if you're looking for this guy to

487
00:22:50,438 --> 00:22:52,798
Speaker 3: come in and quote unquote shake things up, he's not

488
00:22:52,798 --> 00:22:55,518
Speaker 3: permitted to Even if he's capable of doing that, he's

489
00:22:55,558 --> 00:22:57,638
Speaker 3: not going to be permitted to shake things up. It's

490
00:22:57,678 --> 00:22:59,438
Speaker 3: going to be still dictated from the top down.

491
00:22:59,678 --> 00:23:02,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know, small sample size, but after the

492
00:23:02,598 --> 00:23:06,718
Speaker 1: Brandon Hyde firing, you know, I cover the game Saturday

493
00:23:06,718 --> 00:23:09,958
Speaker 1: against Washington. They came out and Kyle Gibson was just awful,

494
00:23:10,038 --> 00:23:13,718
Speaker 1: gave up six runs, but misjudge fly balls, poor defense,

495
00:23:13,798 --> 00:23:17,478
Speaker 1: missing cutoff men, lethargic at bats, and they get wiped out.

496
00:23:17,478 --> 00:23:19,518
Speaker 1: The next day again ninety four, he got swept at

497
00:23:19,518 --> 00:23:22,878
Speaker 1: home by the Washington Nationals. I didn't see any change

498
00:23:22,878 --> 00:23:26,398
Speaker 1: there in terms of energy or approach. So we'll see.

499
00:23:26,438 --> 00:23:28,678
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to get much better for Baltimore.

500
00:23:28,678 --> 00:23:31,278
Speaker 1: I really don't. It's a tough division, maybe not as

501
00:23:31,318 --> 00:23:33,398
Speaker 1: tough as we thought, by the way, with the Yankees

502
00:23:33,398 --> 00:23:36,158
Speaker 1: the only team with the winning record, but fifteen to

503
00:23:36,278 --> 00:23:38,238
Speaker 1: thirty and heading the wrong direction, it's going to take

504
00:23:38,238 --> 00:23:40,278
Speaker 1: a while for this team to turn it around. Be

505
00:23:40,358 --> 00:23:42,878
Speaker 1: interesting to see what they do at the trade deadline, Joe.

506
00:23:43,118 --> 00:23:46,598
Speaker 1: They've had terrible trade deadlines, they've had bad off seasons,

507
00:23:46,958 --> 00:23:49,278
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on them now to do something

508
00:23:49,318 --> 00:23:50,958
Speaker 1: with this team to get a new direction.

509
00:23:51,318 --> 00:23:53,958
Speaker 3: Well that as when you're not doing well, what they

510
00:23:54,118 --> 00:23:55,838
Speaker 3: know a lot of times we'll do is they'll step

511
00:23:55,878 --> 00:23:59,718
Speaker 3: byside and they will permit the manager more leeway in

512
00:23:59,758 --> 00:24:02,158
Speaker 3: regards to what he's doing because they don't perceive to

513
00:24:02,158 --> 00:24:05,198
Speaker 3: be in the running. They're not going to get as

514
00:24:05,238 --> 00:24:08,358
Speaker 3: involved with this whatever the decision is. On a daily basis,

515
00:24:08,358 --> 00:24:11,918
Speaker 3: the lineup might be more in control with the manager,

516
00:24:11,958 --> 00:24:13,838
Speaker 3: et cetera. Because even like when Hyder started there, I

517
00:24:13,878 --> 00:24:15,998
Speaker 3: tell them, listen, man, enjoy this. Enjoy this time when

518
00:24:16,038 --> 00:24:19,798
Speaker 3: you guys think we're literally really because nobody's gonna bother

519
00:24:19,838 --> 00:24:21,398
Speaker 3: you when you stink. They're only going to start bothering

520
00:24:21,398 --> 00:24:23,358
Speaker 3: you when you get pretty good or in the playoff situation,

521
00:24:23,398 --> 00:24:26,358
Speaker 3: if you get to that point. So it's actually probably

522
00:24:26,398 --> 00:24:30,398
Speaker 3: the best time. If the Orioles really wanted to promote change,

523
00:24:30,478 --> 00:24:32,598
Speaker 3: Let turn us over to the coaching staff. Turn us

524
00:24:32,598 --> 00:24:34,878
Speaker 3: over to the manager and the coaching staff. Let them

525
00:24:34,918 --> 00:24:37,918
Speaker 3: try to influence these guys in a way and bring

526
00:24:37,958 --> 00:24:40,158
Speaker 3: out some kind of a fire which are the lethargy

527
00:24:40,198 --> 00:24:41,838
Speaker 3: there is just based on their record. They show up

528
00:24:41,838 --> 00:24:44,598
Speaker 3: at the ballpark every day, they no longer expect to win,

529
00:24:44,638 --> 00:24:46,598
Speaker 3: they expect to lose. So how do you get the

530
00:24:46,598 --> 00:24:48,478
Speaker 3: guys out of this kind of adulgence? To me, the

531
00:24:48,478 --> 00:24:51,438
Speaker 3: players have to feel some kind of leadership from within

532
00:24:51,478 --> 00:24:54,558
Speaker 3: the clubhouse itself. They have to know whomever speaking to them,

533
00:24:54,878 --> 00:24:58,118
Speaker 3: whatever they're saying to them, is solid. This is this

534
00:24:58,158 --> 00:25:00,398
Speaker 3: is as it is, It's how it's supposed to be.

535
00:25:00,718 --> 00:25:03,598
Speaker 3: And they're not looking over their shoulder, over the manager's shoulder.

536
00:25:03,638 --> 00:25:06,678
Speaker 3: Who is really pulling the strings right here? Turn it over,

537
00:25:06,798 --> 00:25:08,798
Speaker 3: Turn it over to the field staff right there, let

538
00:25:08,878 --> 00:25:11,238
Speaker 3: him go, Let them be baseball guys, and let him

539
00:25:11,238 --> 00:25:13,398
Speaker 3: try to bring these guys out of their dulgeens. But

540
00:25:13,478 --> 00:25:15,678
Speaker 3: to try to do it analytically with a bunch of

541
00:25:15,798 --> 00:25:18,478
Speaker 3: dudes walking downstairs with dreams of information ain't gonna happen.

542
00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:20,118
Speaker 2: A couple of news items to get to.

543
00:25:20,918 --> 00:25:25,118
Speaker 1: The Phillies will be without Jose Alvarado, who was suspended

544
00:25:25,678 --> 00:25:29,038
Speaker 1: failed a ped test, which means even once he comes

545
00:25:29,078 --> 00:25:32,878
Speaker 1: back the suspension's over, he cannot participate in the postseason.

546
00:25:33,398 --> 00:25:35,638
Speaker 1: That's big, Joe. I mean, this guy was throwing the

547
00:25:35,638 --> 00:25:36,478
Speaker 1: ball really well.

548
00:25:36,598 --> 00:25:36,838
Speaker 3: Now.

549
00:25:37,118 --> 00:25:40,158
Speaker 1: Alvarado, I guess, through his agent, claims that you know,

550
00:25:40,278 --> 00:25:42,318
Speaker 1: it was a banned substance that he didn't know about

551
00:25:42,438 --> 00:25:45,318
Speaker 1: that was part of a weight loss drug he was

552
00:25:45,358 --> 00:25:47,718
Speaker 1: taking in the off season. You know he's always bowled

553
00:25:47,758 --> 00:25:51,118
Speaker 1: his weight Listen, that's not an excuse. These guys professional athletes.

554
00:25:51,158 --> 00:25:53,558
Speaker 1: Everybody knows now what you can you cannot take. You

555
00:25:53,678 --> 00:25:55,318
Speaker 1: have to be very careful about what you put in

556
00:25:55,358 --> 00:25:55,838
Speaker 1: your body.

557
00:25:56,198 --> 00:25:56,758
Speaker 2: He didn't.

558
00:25:57,518 --> 00:25:59,478
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is a cover story, but I've

559
00:25:59,478 --> 00:26:02,718
Speaker 1: heard a gazillion cover stories. Nobody ever comes out and says, yeah,

560
00:26:02,718 --> 00:26:06,878
Speaker 1: you got me, I did it, So I'm always suspicious

561
00:26:06,918 --> 00:26:09,918
Speaker 1: when guys come out with cover stories. It's nothing specific

562
00:26:09,918 --> 00:26:12,718
Speaker 1: to Jose Alvarado, but I've just heard it too many times.

563
00:26:12,758 --> 00:26:15,838
Speaker 1: I'm tired of it. That's a big loss for Philadelphia, Joe.

564
00:26:16,078 --> 00:26:17,718
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't think their bullpen was great to

565
00:26:17,718 --> 00:26:20,878
Speaker 1: begin with, and that guy can be nasty. I know

566
00:26:20,918 --> 00:26:22,878
Speaker 1: he's had control issues in the past, but he's been

567
00:26:22,918 --> 00:26:23,678
Speaker 1: good this year.

568
00:26:23,998 --> 00:26:24,838
Speaker 2: I think what's gonna happen.

569
00:26:24,878 --> 00:26:27,558
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to wind up using one of their

570
00:26:27,678 --> 00:26:32,478
Speaker 1: starters in the pen late in the year slash postseason,

571
00:26:32,758 --> 00:26:34,598
Speaker 1: and maybe one of their young starters as well.

572
00:26:34,838 --> 00:26:35,598
Speaker 2: You hate to do that.

573
00:26:35,638 --> 00:26:38,038
Speaker 1: With a young guy, but have a guy even in

574
00:26:38,158 --> 00:26:43,238
Speaker 1: Christopher Sanchez, who's that was my dark horse Cy Young

575
00:26:43,238 --> 00:26:44,678
Speaker 1: Award candidate this year.

576
00:26:45,718 --> 00:26:47,318
Speaker 2: Somebody like that, they're gonna have to be creative.

577
00:26:47,358 --> 00:26:49,598
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, Evarado, he's one of those guys that

578
00:26:49,638 --> 00:26:52,358
Speaker 3: could overcome control issues because the stuff is that good.

579
00:26:52,598 --> 00:26:54,638
Speaker 3: Back with the Rays, this is an example Maddy Moore

580
00:26:54,678 --> 00:26:57,998
Speaker 3: when Matti Mo came up. Matti mo he could shotgun

581
00:26:58,078 --> 00:26:59,958
Speaker 3: some pitches. Man, he could throw the ball all over

582
00:26:59,958 --> 00:27:02,838
Speaker 3: the place, but it was really hard for hitters to

583
00:27:02,838 --> 00:27:05,958
Speaker 3: square them up. Moved the baseball. Even after you might

584
00:27:05,998 --> 00:27:08,518
Speaker 3: have put two guys on it will just pop up strikeouts,

585
00:27:08,518 --> 00:27:12,958
Speaker 3: weak round balls after that. So that's the allure of Alvarado.

586
00:27:13,038 --> 00:27:15,278
Speaker 3: Was watching standing Pitch last night with the Mets and

587
00:27:15,318 --> 00:27:18,238
Speaker 3: the Yankees, and again he was a little bit shotgun,

588
00:27:18,318 --> 00:27:20,118
Speaker 3: but then again they weren't really squaring him up and

589
00:27:20,158 --> 00:27:24,118
Speaker 3: they ground ball to Alonzo was the dagger at that

590
00:27:24,158 --> 00:27:27,518
Speaker 3: particular point. So yeah, it's guys like Alvarado that's part

591
00:27:27,558 --> 00:27:31,238
Speaker 3: of the landscape right now. And so again it's almost

592
00:27:31,318 --> 00:27:34,998
Speaker 3: like the offensive side walks are encouraged and walks are

593
00:27:34,998 --> 00:27:39,398
Speaker 3: not necessarily discouraged with pitchers if their stuff is that good,

594
00:27:39,838 --> 00:27:41,918
Speaker 3: because they still believe in the swing and miss. They

595
00:27:41,918 --> 00:27:43,478
Speaker 3: believe the ball is not going to be put in play.

596
00:27:43,518 --> 00:27:47,358
Speaker 3: So guys like Alvarado can get beyond the point where

597
00:27:47,158 --> 00:27:49,558
Speaker 3: their fastball command and command in general is not that

598
00:27:49,638 --> 00:27:51,678
Speaker 3: good because they have so much swing and missing them

599
00:27:52,358 --> 00:27:52,838
Speaker 3: real quick.

600
00:27:52,878 --> 00:27:56,438
Speaker 1: You mentioned the play last night with Pete Alonso. Unfortunately

601
00:27:56,438 --> 00:27:58,958
Speaker 1: that's part of Pete's game as well. He just does

602
00:27:59,078 --> 00:28:01,598
Speaker 1: not throw well that every time he makes that three

603
00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:05,038
Speaker 1: to one play to pitcher covering the bag breath, it's

604
00:28:05,158 --> 00:28:08,278
Speaker 1: an accident waiting to happen, and that play man. I

605
00:28:08,318 --> 00:28:11,598
Speaker 1: had an immediate flashback to the twenty fifteen World Series

606
00:28:11,958 --> 00:28:15,598
Speaker 1: with Eric Cosmer running on Lucas Duda, and I remember

607
00:28:15,598 --> 00:28:18,078
Speaker 1: after that game talking to the Royals coaching staff about

608
00:28:18,078 --> 00:28:21,958
Speaker 1: how they knew they knew from all the reports. Any

609
00:28:22,118 --> 00:28:24,998
Speaker 1: chance you have to make Lucas do to throw the baseball,

610
00:28:25,398 --> 00:28:27,438
Speaker 1: do it. And I'm sure that book is out there

611
00:28:27,518 --> 00:28:29,998
Speaker 1: on Pete Alonso, just the same way it was on

612
00:28:30,078 --> 00:28:33,678
Speaker 1: Jason Giambi. When you have a first baseman who can't throw,

613
00:28:33,838 --> 00:28:36,438
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like a big deal until it is.

614
00:28:36,958 --> 00:28:39,158
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that was the report on Pete Alonzo.

615
00:28:39,718 --> 00:28:41,838
Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna run anywhere. They had second and third,

616
00:28:41,838 --> 00:28:44,078
Speaker 1: so you can put the contact relay on that situation.

617
00:28:44,198 --> 00:28:46,838
Speaker 2: But you listen. You get the home runs.

618
00:28:46,918 --> 00:28:49,358
Speaker 1: He's having a great year, but you also get some

619
00:28:49,998 --> 00:28:52,198
Speaker 1: just times when you hold your breath when he has

620
00:28:52,198 --> 00:28:54,518
Speaker 1: to throw a baseball. It's weird, Joe, that it's not

621
00:28:54,558 --> 00:28:57,198
Speaker 1: that unusual for first baseman who just simply cannot throw.

622
00:28:57,718 --> 00:28:59,518
Speaker 3: Back in the day Frank Thomas who wanted him to

623
00:28:59,798 --> 00:29:03,158
Speaker 3: handle the baseball. There's been others. There's pictures that you

624
00:29:03,198 --> 00:29:05,158
Speaker 3: want to handle the base well, butunt right back at him.

625
00:29:05,158 --> 00:29:08,358
Speaker 3: When I had Maddy Garza, yes, the first at bat

626
00:29:08,478 --> 00:29:11,598
Speaker 3: playing the Red Sox playoff game at the Trump guars

627
00:29:11,678 --> 00:29:13,318
Speaker 3: Is pitching, he had a really hard time throwing the

628
00:29:13,318 --> 00:29:16,038
Speaker 3: first base, whether it was a pickoff whatever. So a

629
00:29:16,038 --> 00:29:19,238
Speaker 3: couple of days before that game, Jim Hickey took Maddie

630
00:29:19,278 --> 00:29:22,838
Speaker 3: down to al laning Field right down the street and

631
00:29:22,878 --> 00:29:25,398
Speaker 3: he was working on PfP with guards away from the

632
00:29:25,718 --> 00:29:28,238
Speaker 3: from the trup. First at bat, he was I'm pretty

633
00:29:28,238 --> 00:29:32,198
Speaker 3: sure's Coco Cris. He bunted it hard right back to Maddie.

634
00:29:32,438 --> 00:29:35,838
Speaker 3: Maddy turns the first and throws a ninety five on

635
00:29:35,958 --> 00:29:39,758
Speaker 3: our rocket Carlos at first that we caught it right, Wow,

636
00:29:40,078 --> 00:29:43,118
Speaker 3: chest high, unbelievable. You know what, that's stop. That stopped

637
00:29:43,238 --> 00:29:46,238
Speaker 3: all the bunny right there. Crazy how one play does that,

638
00:29:46,678 --> 00:29:49,758
Speaker 3: But it's it's part of the landscape. And I love

639
00:29:49,918 --> 00:29:52,358
Speaker 3: Anthony Rizzo, one of the best throwing first baseman. While

640
00:29:52,398 --> 00:29:54,318
Speaker 3: he joiner that I've had Jackie Snow, I've had some

641
00:29:54,398 --> 00:29:57,278
Speaker 3: really good throwing first basemen. They are inviable. But it's

642
00:29:57,318 --> 00:29:59,798
Speaker 3: part of the landscape. Again, we're talking about where anybody

643
00:29:59,838 --> 00:30:02,878
Speaker 3: can play first base these days. I'm not putting Alonso

644
00:30:02,918 --> 00:30:04,998
Speaker 3: in that category. I mean, he's a very very good

645
00:30:05,038 --> 00:30:07,318
Speaker 3: baseball player overall. But when you got a you got

646
00:30:07,638 --> 00:30:11,158
Speaker 3: a guy that can throw first baseman wise, and he's

647
00:30:11,278 --> 00:30:13,598
Speaker 3: left handed, which I really love. He could do a

648
00:30:13,598 --> 00:30:15,438
Speaker 3: lot of stuff, especially in the old game, with a

649
00:30:15,478 --> 00:30:18,678
Speaker 3: lot of bunting. Like we're just talking about us. Rizza

650
00:30:18,798 --> 00:30:21,718
Speaker 3: was so good we started crashing that distance between the

651
00:30:21,758 --> 00:30:24,598
Speaker 3: mound and first base before everybody caught on to it.

652
00:30:24,678 --> 00:30:26,958
Speaker 3: We were like getting pictures bunning right to Riz and

653
00:30:26,998 --> 00:30:29,478
Speaker 3: the slot right there were turning double plays because he

654
00:30:29,558 --> 00:30:32,438
Speaker 3: threw that one. He wanted to throw, so it's I

655
00:30:32,718 --> 00:30:34,558
Speaker 3: felt so bad for him. I was watching his face.

656
00:30:34,638 --> 00:30:36,718
Speaker 3: My god, he had to wear that. It's a very

657
00:30:36,718 --> 00:30:40,158
Speaker 3: embarrassing moment, and it's a tough moment for a guy

658
00:30:40,198 --> 00:30:41,998
Speaker 3: like him. I mean, I hope it does not impact

659
00:30:42,038 --> 00:30:45,838
Speaker 3: him moving forward offensively, whatever. But I honestly felt for

660
00:30:45,878 --> 00:30:47,238
Speaker 3: the guy because they know hert he's been working.

661
00:30:47,358 --> 00:30:47,998
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay.

662
00:30:47,998 --> 00:30:50,078
Speaker 1: It only happened at Yankee Stadium, so I'm sure New

663
00:30:50,158 --> 00:30:51,838
Speaker 1: York fans won't remember that play.

664
00:30:52,478 --> 00:30:54,238
Speaker 3: Don't forget about that. That's very good.

665
00:30:55,198 --> 00:30:57,158
Speaker 1: Another news item, Joe, I'm not sure if you saw

666
00:30:57,238 --> 00:31:00,398
Speaker 1: this one. The Texas Rangers signed a high school kid

667
00:31:00,438 --> 00:31:04,318
Speaker 1: out of Korea, Sung Young Kim, and they say they're

668
00:31:04,358 --> 00:31:06,678
Speaker 1: going to develop him as a two way player. He's

669
00:31:06,718 --> 00:31:11,118
Speaker 1: a shortstop and a pitcher. He is six foot two,

670
00:31:11,278 --> 00:31:14,358
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty five pounds. He throws mid nineties

671
00:31:14,638 --> 00:31:16,878
Speaker 1: about ninety five mile hour fastball right now.

672
00:31:17,518 --> 00:31:20,158
Speaker 2: So I like the idea. I mean the idea that.

673
00:31:20,118 --> 00:31:22,958
Speaker 1: There's going to be another show. Hey, oh, Tony's just ridiculous.

674
00:31:22,998 --> 00:31:24,838
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen. We're not going to see that.

675
00:31:25,478 --> 00:31:28,398
Speaker 1: But why not take a guy for as long as

676
00:31:28,398 --> 00:31:32,038
Speaker 1: you can anyway. And he's probably more of a pitcher

677
00:31:32,158 --> 00:31:34,278
Speaker 1: right now, the scouts say than he is a hitter.

678
00:31:34,878 --> 00:31:36,638
Speaker 1: But he's got enough ability on both sides of the

679
00:31:36,678 --> 00:31:39,998
Speaker 1: baseball that, you know, being this young, why not, whether

680
00:31:39,998 --> 00:31:42,358
Speaker 1: it's extended spring training, rookie ball, what have you.

681
00:31:43,318 --> 00:31:45,198
Speaker 2: I'm all about this, Joe. I like it.

682
00:31:45,958 --> 00:31:48,678
Speaker 1: I think when you rule things out and to borrow

683
00:31:48,838 --> 00:31:51,278
Speaker 1: your phrase, you know, don't get in the way of greatness,

684
00:31:51,438 --> 00:31:53,718
Speaker 1: you know, don't put governors on people until you have to.

685
00:31:54,158 --> 00:31:55,678
Speaker 1: And I think if you're talking about a high school

686
00:31:55,678 --> 00:31:58,438
Speaker 1: player who's got the ability to do two different things,

687
00:31:58,438 --> 00:32:00,598
Speaker 1: I don't know yet at the major league level, but

688
00:32:00,798 --> 00:32:02,838
Speaker 1: I like the idea the Rangers are thinking this way.

689
00:32:02,878 --> 00:32:05,198
Speaker 1: And maybe this is also we're seeing a generation now

690
00:32:05,198 --> 00:32:07,518
Speaker 1: who sees Show Hey and say I want to do that.

691
00:32:07,918 --> 00:32:09,838
Speaker 2: And let's face it, you had Show.

692
00:32:09,678 --> 00:32:11,278
Speaker 1: Hey with the Angels, and the reason he's a two

693
00:32:11,318 --> 00:32:14,038
Speaker 1: way player was because he wanted to do that, right,

694
00:32:14,118 --> 00:32:16,078
Speaker 1: That's the reason why he came over here, So why

695
00:32:16,118 --> 00:32:19,478
Speaker 1: take it away? So listen, I'm not saying this guy

696
00:32:19,518 --> 00:32:20,878
Speaker 1: is gonna be the next show he Oh, Tony, but

697
00:32:21,038 --> 00:32:23,518
Speaker 1: I applaud the Rangers for giving him the opportunity to

698
00:32:23,558 --> 00:32:24,438
Speaker 1: be a two way player.

699
00:32:24,678 --> 00:32:27,438
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the shortstop thing is he's gonna get if he's

700
00:32:27,478 --> 00:32:29,358
Speaker 3: going to pitch and play short stuff, that ain't gonna happen.

701
00:32:29,398 --> 00:32:31,198
Speaker 3: I don't think that's that's hard on the arm. Man,

702
00:32:31,558 --> 00:32:34,758
Speaker 3: it would have to be like a different position because

703
00:32:34,758 --> 00:32:37,038
Speaker 3: he's not unless he really starts banging it. He's not

704
00:32:37,078 --> 00:32:39,998
Speaker 3: a DH type. It doesn't sound like yet. I don't

705
00:32:40,038 --> 00:32:41,598
Speaker 3: know how well he runs, but it might be more

706
00:32:41,638 --> 00:32:43,718
Speaker 3: of an outfield kind of a situation, kind of a

707
00:32:43,718 --> 00:32:46,838
Speaker 3: big guy. Could even be first base possibly, which would

708
00:32:46,878 --> 00:32:49,798
Speaker 3: make more sense. But the shortstop pitcher combo, that's like

709
00:32:49,838 --> 00:32:52,838
Speaker 3: being in high school. And you know, I distinctly remember

710
00:32:52,998 --> 00:32:55,438
Speaker 3: doing those two things, and the day after I would

711
00:32:55,438 --> 00:32:56,838
Speaker 3: pitch and I had to play short stop, I would

712
00:32:56,878 --> 00:32:59,118
Speaker 3: open my buttons on my shirt so I could hold

713
00:32:59,158 --> 00:33:01,638
Speaker 3: him my pitching arm, my right arm in there like

714
00:33:01,638 --> 00:33:04,278
Speaker 3: a sling because it hurts so much, I mean, so

715
00:33:04,318 --> 00:33:06,398
Speaker 3: I didn't want it just to drop down by my side.

716
00:33:06,678 --> 00:33:09,478
Speaker 3: So it takes days for that to truly recover to

717
00:33:09,518 --> 00:33:11,758
Speaker 3: the point where you could play a position like shortstop.

718
00:33:11,998 --> 00:33:13,918
Speaker 3: So I think that'll change. But I'm with you, man,

719
00:33:14,038 --> 00:33:16,638
Speaker 3: go for it. Think it's interesting, and that's one of

720
00:33:16,678 --> 00:33:19,158
Speaker 3: those things that can you put that out there if

721
00:33:19,158 --> 00:33:21,838
Speaker 3: you're looking to allure young players. It's of course it's

722
00:33:21,878 --> 00:33:24,518
Speaker 3: a very very very very small percentage that may do that,

723
00:33:24,558 --> 00:33:27,518
Speaker 3: but nevertheless, it's kind of a something unique that really

724
00:33:27,598 --> 00:33:31,358
Speaker 3: draws eyeballs towards it. And you know, see why the Rangers,

725
00:33:31,558 --> 00:33:33,838
Speaker 3: I'm good with all that. Good for them, and let's

726
00:33:33,838 --> 00:33:35,518
Speaker 3: see what happens it all works out.

727
00:33:35,718 --> 00:33:37,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think about the idea of maybe

728
00:33:37,718 --> 00:33:39,878
Speaker 1: second base and pitching. You make a good point about

729
00:33:39,918 --> 00:33:43,398
Speaker 1: playing shortstop. You know, I've talked with sports orthopedis to say,

730
00:33:43,438 --> 00:33:44,918
Speaker 1: you know, all these kids, and a lot of them

731
00:33:44,958 --> 00:33:47,598
Speaker 1: do because they tend to be the best players, best athletes,

732
00:33:48,118 --> 00:33:51,118
Speaker 1: they pitch and play shortstop growing up and on travel teams,

733
00:33:51,198 --> 00:33:54,318
Speaker 1: and a lot of orthopedias recommend against that. Like even

734
00:33:54,398 --> 00:33:57,358
Speaker 1: catching and pitching, which some kids do as well, is rough.

735
00:33:57,678 --> 00:33:59,358
Speaker 1: You know, they'd rather see you in the outfield or

736
00:33:59,438 --> 00:34:02,518
Speaker 1: especially at first base. So doing it professionally it's got

737
00:34:02,558 --> 00:34:05,118
Speaker 1: to be, you know, ten times hard. But what about

738
00:34:05,118 --> 00:34:08,358
Speaker 1: the possibility of playing second base and pitching?

739
00:34:08,678 --> 00:34:09,678
Speaker 2: Still too demanding?

740
00:34:09,878 --> 00:34:14,078
Speaker 3: I think, so I do there's you know the throw

741
00:34:14,158 --> 00:34:16,158
Speaker 3: is in as long. From that perspective, I'm thinking about

742
00:34:16,158 --> 00:34:18,678
Speaker 3: turning double plays. I'm thinking about cutoff and relays right now.

743
00:34:18,718 --> 00:34:22,118
Speaker 3: Although the relay doesn't happen as often the turning of

744
00:34:22,158 --> 00:34:25,078
Speaker 3: the double play. Throwing across your body or against you know,

745
00:34:25,158 --> 00:34:28,598
Speaker 3: hitting the bag and then propelling yourself towards for a space,

746
00:34:28,758 --> 00:34:31,278
Speaker 3: there's a lot going on there. I think that wherever

747
00:34:31,318 --> 00:34:33,118
Speaker 3: you can put the minimal number of throws, like if

748
00:34:33,118 --> 00:34:35,678
Speaker 3: he's in right field on a nightly basis, just as

749
00:34:35,718 --> 00:34:39,078
Speaker 3: let's say left the right field, minimize the number of

750
00:34:39,278 --> 00:34:41,918
Speaker 3: throws you have in between innings playing catch, and then

751
00:34:41,958 --> 00:34:43,478
Speaker 3: even during the course of the game. I thought that

752
00:34:43,518 --> 00:34:46,198
Speaker 3: even having like a showy out there, what you do

753
00:34:46,318 --> 00:34:48,638
Speaker 3: is you really have your cutoff guys, go out there farther,

754
00:34:48,958 --> 00:34:51,118
Speaker 3: really try to decrease the length of throw has to be,

755
00:34:51,638 --> 00:34:53,478
Speaker 3: and I would discourage him from throwing the home plate,

756
00:34:53,478 --> 00:34:55,518
Speaker 3: even unless it's like the absolute when you run at

757
00:34:55,518 --> 00:34:57,518
Speaker 3: the end of the game, something we did with the Rays.

758
00:34:57,518 --> 00:34:59,958
Speaker 3: A couple of years ago, zim Don Zimill pointed out

759
00:34:59,998 --> 00:35:02,638
Speaker 3: to me Paul Richards, when he managed the White Sox

760
00:35:02,638 --> 00:35:05,838
Speaker 3: in the fifty a very bright manager insisted that is

761
00:35:06,198 --> 00:35:08,398
Speaker 3: outfielders never threw the ball at home always showed the

762
00:35:08,398 --> 00:35:10,278
Speaker 3: ball a second base, keep the double play in order

763
00:35:10,318 --> 00:35:13,798
Speaker 3: because of the infrequency of the guys being thrown out

764
00:35:13,798 --> 00:35:16,398
Speaker 3: at home plate. Maybe in Boston you might change that

765
00:35:16,478 --> 00:35:18,478
Speaker 3: a little bit with the short left field. But that

766
00:35:18,598 --> 00:35:20,358
Speaker 3: was kind of an interesting concept. Is that what we did.

767
00:35:20,398 --> 00:35:22,318
Speaker 3: We didn't have really good outfield arms. We just got

768
00:35:22,358 --> 00:35:24,518
Speaker 3: the ball through back to second, got the ball through

769
00:35:24,518 --> 00:35:27,238
Speaker 3: the ball back to second unless was the game winner

770
00:35:27,278 --> 00:35:29,078
Speaker 3: and you had to go to the plate. So there's

771
00:35:29,158 --> 00:35:31,598
Speaker 3: ways to mitigate it. The number of throws in the outfield.

772
00:35:31,638 --> 00:35:33,798
Speaker 3: They know it's a longer throw, but like I said,

773
00:35:33,798 --> 00:35:35,678
Speaker 3: you try to shorten things up, and these are the

774
00:35:35,678 --> 00:35:38,798
Speaker 3: things you can work on. So for me, I'd prefer

775
00:35:39,038 --> 00:35:42,158
Speaker 3: even I would prefer an outfield position over any infield position,

776
00:35:42,238 --> 00:35:43,118
Speaker 3: including first space.

777
00:35:43,478 --> 00:35:44,038
Speaker 2: Good stuff.

778
00:35:44,118 --> 00:35:47,158
Speaker 1: Joe, Hey, I want to get your opinion on a

779
00:35:47,278 --> 00:35:50,918
Speaker 1: major change that was made at the Vatican in the

780
00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:52,518
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks that we didn't get a chance

781
00:35:52,558 --> 00:35:55,158
Speaker 1: to talk about last week. Yes, we'll do that right

782
00:35:55,198 --> 00:36:10,518
Speaker 1: after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome Back to

783
00:36:10,518 --> 00:36:13,638
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast Tom Berducci with Joe Madden,

784
00:36:13,678 --> 00:36:17,078
Speaker 1: who if I remember correctly, Joe, weren't you once nicknamed Month?

785
00:36:17,718 --> 00:36:18,278
Speaker 2: Growing up?

786
00:36:18,598 --> 00:36:22,478
Speaker 3: I was? I was Joe Muzzoline. Muzzy was one of

787
00:36:22,518 --> 00:36:25,918
Speaker 3: my wide receivers, and because I would never curse, he

788
00:36:25,918 --> 00:36:28,998
Speaker 3: would reference refer to me as the month senior? What's

789
00:36:29,038 --> 00:36:32,518
Speaker 3: going on? One senior? And Joe muzz had terrible hands.

790
00:36:32,518 --> 00:36:34,398
Speaker 3: He's the wide receivers, a doctor, and I saw him

791
00:36:34,398 --> 00:36:36,958
Speaker 3: not too long ago. Muzzy hit him right in the chest.

792
00:36:36,998 --> 00:36:39,278
Speaker 3: The ball pop up in the air for any anybody

793
00:36:39,318 --> 00:36:42,558
Speaker 3: to intercept. Fun guy loved the guy, but he's the

794
00:36:42,598 --> 00:36:43,998
Speaker 3: one that dropped the month senior on me.

795
00:36:44,278 --> 00:36:46,518
Speaker 2: So you would hit him in a bad spot the hands.

796
00:36:46,318 --> 00:36:48,078
Speaker 3: Right in the hands like it was supposed to be had,

797
00:36:48,118 --> 00:36:50,078
Speaker 3: but hit his chest, go right through the hands, chest

798
00:36:50,358 --> 00:36:51,278
Speaker 3: pop up, here we go.

799
00:36:51,278 --> 00:36:53,558
Speaker 1: There'd be a lot of umpires who would be shocked

800
00:36:53,638 --> 00:36:56,158
Speaker 1: to hear that nickname Joe knowing.

801
00:36:55,918 --> 00:36:59,678
Speaker 3: You right, I know this and things change over time.

802
00:37:00,438 --> 00:37:02,278
Speaker 3: I mean I was, you know, growing up our Lady

803
00:37:02,318 --> 00:37:04,678
Speaker 3: of Grace the nuns all the time. My mom would

804
00:37:04,678 --> 00:37:07,358
Speaker 3: crack me if I said anything wrong. So I guess

805
00:37:07,398 --> 00:37:08,198
Speaker 3: I outgrew all that.

806
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:12,598
Speaker 1: So yes, the new Pope obviously, I'm alluding to Pope Leo.

807
00:37:12,798 --> 00:37:15,398
Speaker 1: He's from Chicago, where he was known as Father Bob.

808
00:37:15,718 --> 00:37:18,278
Speaker 1: The most amazing thing, I don't know if you've seen it, Joe,

809
00:37:18,318 --> 00:37:20,718
Speaker 1: this video that was unearthed from Game one of the

810
00:37:20,758 --> 00:37:24,438
Speaker 1: two thousand and five World Series. Father Bob is sitting

811
00:37:24,478 --> 00:37:27,758
Speaker 1: in the stands watching the White Sox win Game one

812
00:37:27,838 --> 00:37:29,238
Speaker 1: of the World Series. He looked like he had a

813
00:37:29,278 --> 00:37:31,278
Speaker 1: little bit of a nervous look on his face, which

814
00:37:31,318 --> 00:37:33,518
Speaker 1: is awesome, which tells you that's a legit fan.

815
00:37:33,958 --> 00:37:35,558
Speaker 2: Right Bobby Jenks is on the mound.

816
00:37:36,078 --> 00:37:38,038
Speaker 1: I mean, the idea that the White Sox could win

817
00:37:38,038 --> 00:37:40,798
Speaker 1: a World Series game, let alone the series probably still

818
00:37:41,198 --> 00:37:44,838
Speaker 1: was beyond comprehension at that point. But man, listen, if

819
00:37:44,878 --> 00:37:48,758
Speaker 1: you perform one miracle, you're beautified. If you perform two,

820
00:37:48,838 --> 00:37:52,398
Speaker 1: you're eligible for sainthood. This guy now is watched and

821
00:37:52,478 --> 00:37:54,638
Speaker 1: oversaw that White Sox win a World Series, and that

822
00:37:54,718 --> 00:37:58,278
Speaker 1: became the first American to be elected by the Conclave

823
00:37:58,438 --> 00:38:01,758
Speaker 1: as Pope. I mean, those are two huge miracles right

824
00:38:01,758 --> 00:38:02,718
Speaker 1: there for Father Bob.

825
00:38:02,878 --> 00:38:05,758
Speaker 3: Don't think better than that would if he had been

826
00:38:05,798 --> 00:38:08,838
Speaker 3: watching over the twenty sixteen Cubs. I mean, my sisters saying,

827
00:38:08,958 --> 00:38:11,158
Speaker 3: Karmy said you could get an audience with the pope

828
00:38:11,198 --> 00:38:13,318
Speaker 3: because at the beginning everybody said he was a Cubs fan,

829
00:38:13,758 --> 00:38:15,118
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden it switched over to the

830
00:38:15,118 --> 00:38:18,238
Speaker 3: White Sox. I lost all my status at the Vatican. Yeah,

831
00:38:18,238 --> 00:38:21,318
Speaker 3: I did see that video. It's really cool, man, it's

832
00:38:21,358 --> 00:38:24,558
Speaker 3: really interesting to see that. It's so hard for us

833
00:38:24,598 --> 00:38:27,398
Speaker 3: to wrap our minds around this because we're from here,

834
00:38:27,398 --> 00:38:30,038
Speaker 3: and especially from Chicago, but there's a lot of like

835
00:38:30,438 --> 00:38:32,718
Speaker 3: people in different countries where popes have been elected, Like

836
00:38:32,718 --> 00:38:36,798
Speaker 3: whether it's in Poland or in Argentina, whatever, everybody comes

837
00:38:36,798 --> 00:38:40,198
Speaker 3: from somewhere, right, Everybody comes from and particularly these guys

838
00:38:40,958 --> 00:38:43,158
Speaker 3: normally come from pretty humble roots. It's not like you've

839
00:38:43,158 --> 00:38:45,438
Speaker 3: were born with the silver spoon in your mouth and

840
00:38:45,478 --> 00:38:48,918
Speaker 3: you attended the greatest universities eventually get elected pope. It's

841
00:38:48,918 --> 00:38:53,798
Speaker 3: normally something of you know, poverty or some more humble beginning.

842
00:38:53,838 --> 00:38:56,398
Speaker 3: So yeah, I like everything about him I'm reading so far,

843
00:38:56,638 --> 00:39:00,958
Speaker 3: like his philosophies, I like his the direction he's talking about.

844
00:39:01,678 --> 00:39:03,918
Speaker 3: Religion is not supposed to be easy, you know, That's

845
00:39:03,958 --> 00:39:08,558
Speaker 3: what I've always thought. And again, I'm a Catholic I practice.

846
00:39:08,878 --> 00:39:11,238
Speaker 3: Once in a while, I got to admit I should

847
00:39:11,278 --> 00:39:13,598
Speaker 3: be better at it. But to acquiesce to religion all

848
00:39:13,598 --> 00:39:15,638
Speaker 3: the time, I've never quite understood that where you're trying

849
00:39:15,678 --> 00:39:18,638
Speaker 3: to make it easier for the congregation or followers. Potentially,

850
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:21,198
Speaker 3: it is what it is, and I think that's always

851
00:39:21,238 --> 00:39:24,278
Speaker 3: going to approach it. I've always been concerned when the

852
00:39:24,278 --> 00:39:26,158
Speaker 3: things I was not supposed to do as a kid

853
00:39:26,198 --> 00:39:29,438
Speaker 3: became more tolerable, tolerable as I got older. I was

854
00:39:29,438 --> 00:39:31,278
Speaker 3: always concerned with that kind of decision making.

855
00:39:31,678 --> 00:39:35,078
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably true in society, right, we're becoming much

856
00:39:35,118 --> 00:39:38,158
Speaker 1: more laxed in terms of what should be allowed or

857
00:39:38,478 --> 00:39:42,158
Speaker 1: especially convenient. You know, one of my complaints is a

858
00:39:42,198 --> 00:39:45,758
Speaker 1: lot of technology, a lot of innovations have almost all

859
00:39:45,758 --> 00:39:47,598
Speaker 1: been on the side of convenience. How can we make

860
00:39:47,638 --> 00:39:52,078
Speaker 1: things easier? And easier doesn't always equate to better, right.

861
00:39:52,198 --> 00:39:55,238
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about discipline and struggling, and certainly

862
00:39:55,478 --> 00:39:58,358
Speaker 1: Pope Leo's one of these people who can attest to that.

863
00:39:58,438 --> 00:40:02,078
Speaker 1: I mean, it's from Chicago, yes, but missionary work in Peru.

864
00:40:02,158 --> 00:40:05,318
Speaker 1: He seems to belong to the world, you know, multi linguist,

865
00:40:05,798 --> 00:40:07,838
Speaker 1: the Peruvian South Americans look at him as one of

866
00:40:07,838 --> 00:40:09,758
Speaker 1: their own. Chicago looks at him as one of their own.

867
00:40:09,758 --> 00:40:11,358
Speaker 1: I think that's a great thing. And he is speaking

868
00:40:11,438 --> 00:40:14,398
Speaker 1: the message of peace right off the bat which, my goodness,

869
00:40:14,438 --> 00:40:17,078
Speaker 1: do we need that in the world today. So yeah,

870
00:40:17,318 --> 00:40:19,358
Speaker 1: like you, I like everything that I've heard about him.

871
00:40:19,438 --> 00:40:21,678
Speaker 1: He seems like he's just taking the baton from Francis

872
00:40:21,678 --> 00:40:24,558
Speaker 1: and running with it in terms of humility, making sure

873
00:40:24,598 --> 00:40:26,478
Speaker 1: the underserved are better served.

874
00:40:26,998 --> 00:40:30,238
Speaker 2: So all good signs. Maybe not for the White Sox yet,

875
00:40:30,438 --> 00:40:31,358
Speaker 2: but maybe in time.

876
00:40:31,558 --> 00:40:34,838
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting. I'm curious as he settles into his

877
00:40:34,958 --> 00:40:38,238
Speaker 3: role there if there's going to be more recognition or

878
00:40:38,438 --> 00:40:42,318
Speaker 3: commentary about the White Sox, especially if they begin to ascend.

879
00:40:43,078 --> 00:40:45,078
Speaker 3: That'd be kind of interesting to see. I guess, well,

880
00:40:45,118 --> 00:40:48,278
Speaker 3: that's two great white Sox fans. Obama, that's right. President

881
00:40:48,318 --> 00:40:51,518
Speaker 3: Obama was a big white Sox fan. I went to

882
00:40:51,558 --> 00:40:55,838
Speaker 3: England one off season while Obama was president. You walk

883
00:40:55,878 --> 00:40:58,998
Speaker 3: into these big department stores in London. There's white Sox

884
00:40:59,078 --> 00:41:01,798
Speaker 3: here everywhere, and I said, what's oh, Oh, that's right.

885
00:41:02,118 --> 00:41:05,158
Speaker 3: Obama is a white Sox fan. So good for the

886
00:41:05,158 --> 00:41:07,398
Speaker 3: White Sox. They could use the help right now.

887
00:41:07,518 --> 00:41:10,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, I meantime that it looks like the Chicago Cubs

888
00:41:10,598 --> 00:41:12,278
Speaker 1: are back, Joe. I'm not sure how much you'll be

889
00:41:12,318 --> 00:41:16,038
Speaker 1: able to watch them, but offensively, yeah, they're a really.

890
00:41:15,798 --> 00:41:16,758
Speaker 2: Good offensive team.

891
00:41:16,918 --> 00:41:17,118
Speaker 3: Yeah.

892
00:41:17,558 --> 00:41:19,518
Speaker 1: They've had some injuries on the pitching staff, There's no

893
00:41:19,638 --> 00:41:22,198
Speaker 1: question about that. They've survived it well because guys like

894
00:41:22,198 --> 00:41:25,838
Speaker 1: Pete Crow Armstrong are just hitting next level Michael Bush,

895
00:41:25,878 --> 00:41:27,558
Speaker 1: I mean, up and down the lineup. It seems like

896
00:41:27,598 --> 00:41:30,438
Speaker 1: this is a very deep and dangerous lineup. Obviously Kyle

897
00:41:30,518 --> 00:41:33,118
Speaker 1: Tucker has made a huge difference there. But now I'd

898
00:41:33,118 --> 00:41:35,558
Speaker 1: have to say that, all due respect to Milwaukee and

899
00:41:35,598 --> 00:41:37,198
Speaker 1: what they've done, the Cubs are the team to beat

900
00:41:37,198 --> 00:41:37,838
Speaker 1: in that division.

901
00:41:38,078 --> 00:41:39,998
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Saint Louis is making some noise right

902
00:41:39,998 --> 00:41:41,838
Speaker 3: now too. I want to see how serious that is.

903
00:41:41,878 --> 00:41:46,278
Speaker 3: But I agree, I do watch the Cubs. Armstrong, Crow, i'mstrong,

904
00:41:46,438 --> 00:41:50,638
Speaker 3: is really he's got. He's just a life wirey, strong

905
00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:53,998
Speaker 3: human being. I mean, he's a throwback kind of a player.

906
00:41:54,358 --> 00:41:56,438
Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, let me let me stop you and ask

907
00:41:56,478 --> 00:41:58,878
Speaker 1: you about him, because it's a I like this and

908
00:41:59,038 --> 00:42:02,198
Speaker 1: I know you're really into your experience as a hitting coach.

909
00:42:03,238 --> 00:42:04,998
Speaker 2: Kind of the changes that you can make with hitters.

910
00:42:05,478 --> 00:42:07,518
Speaker 1: The guy was a one sixty nine hitter getting the

911
00:42:07,518 --> 00:42:08,678
Speaker 1: bat knocked out of his hands.

912
00:42:08,758 --> 00:42:09,278
Speaker 2: Last year.

913
00:42:10,118 --> 00:42:12,318
Speaker 1: He's on an zero for seventeen street. The team goes

914
00:42:12,358 --> 00:42:16,518
Speaker 1: to Kansas City and the hitting coach, Dustin Kelly, brings

915
00:42:16,558 --> 00:42:20,038
Speaker 1: me into the batting cage and what he was doing

916
00:42:20,198 --> 00:42:22,638
Speaker 1: was he was drifting forward as he strove with his

917
00:42:22,678 --> 00:42:24,918
Speaker 1: front foot, his hips in his head would follow.

918
00:42:25,238 --> 00:42:27,118
Speaker 2: Obviously, you got nothing on the backside.

919
00:42:27,198 --> 00:42:29,358
Speaker 1: You're actually shortening the amount of time you have to

920
00:42:29,358 --> 00:42:31,878
Speaker 1: read a baseball when you do that. So they started

921
00:42:31,918 --> 00:42:34,318
Speaker 1: with a drill where he picked up the front foot

922
00:42:34,358 --> 00:42:36,398
Speaker 1: and he felt the weight on his back side, he

923
00:42:36,438 --> 00:42:39,238
Speaker 1: felt loading on the back hip and just hitting balls

924
00:42:39,238 --> 00:42:41,838
Speaker 1: off of tee like this, you know, just telling him,

925
00:42:42,118 --> 00:42:43,878
Speaker 1: this is the way you need to stay back and

926
00:42:43,958 --> 00:42:46,238
Speaker 1: stop this drift that you have. It was just a

927
00:42:46,318 --> 00:42:48,678
Speaker 1: drill in the cage. They gave him a day off

928
00:42:48,718 --> 00:42:51,398
Speaker 1: to work on that. The next game he decides to

929
00:42:51,438 --> 00:42:54,438
Speaker 1: go right into the game with it, and he's absolutely

930
00:42:54,718 --> 00:42:57,838
Speaker 1: just killed the ball ever since then. I mean, the

931
00:42:57,838 --> 00:43:00,838
Speaker 1: guy's in the top five and slugging in the major leagues.

932
00:43:00,878 --> 00:43:03,518
Speaker 1: And like I said, he couldn't. He's getting the bat

933
00:43:03,598 --> 00:43:06,278
Speaker 1: knocked out of his hands up until midway through last year.

934
00:43:06,958 --> 00:43:09,558
Speaker 1: So let me get your take, Joe on what it

935
00:43:09,598 --> 00:43:13,078
Speaker 1: takes for someone to make an adjustment mid season like that.

936
00:43:14,038 --> 00:43:16,958
Speaker 1: Obviously he's a great athlete and just to have it

937
00:43:16,998 --> 00:43:17,918
Speaker 1: take so quickly.

938
00:43:18,198 --> 00:43:21,638
Speaker 3: Well, your explanation, your description is right on the money.

939
00:43:22,238 --> 00:43:24,678
Speaker 3: I didn't realize all that had happened. But you're talking

940
00:43:24,718 --> 00:43:26,558
Speaker 3: about some classic stuff. What I used to do. I

941
00:43:26,638 --> 00:43:28,638
Speaker 3: did this with Dante Boschett. Dante used to be a

942
00:43:28,638 --> 00:43:31,518
Speaker 3: big jumper. This is before some of the new contraptions

943
00:43:31,518 --> 00:43:33,798
Speaker 3: came out. I used to at Guenautry Park. I got

944
00:43:33,838 --> 00:43:36,078
Speaker 3: an extension court and I would wrap it through the

945
00:43:36,118 --> 00:43:39,598
Speaker 3: back of the batting cage, the tunnel the turtle and

946
00:43:39,638 --> 00:43:41,438
Speaker 3: I haven't put it around his waist and I would

947
00:43:41,478 --> 00:43:44,478
Speaker 3: stand behind the batting tunnel as somebody who's throwing a

948
00:43:44,558 --> 00:43:47,758
Speaker 3: VP and I would hold him from jumping or drifting

949
00:43:47,758 --> 00:43:50,078
Speaker 3: straight ahead. For me, the stride foot is a reach,

950
00:43:50,118 --> 00:43:52,518
Speaker 3: it's not a step. So when to really try to

951
00:43:52,558 --> 00:43:55,358
Speaker 3: stay behind the ball with your front side, keep your

952
00:43:55,398 --> 00:43:57,318
Speaker 3: top pan behind the ball, keep your head behind the ball.

953
00:43:57,478 --> 00:43:59,238
Speaker 3: It's kind of a reach with that front foot and

954
00:43:59,278 --> 00:44:01,918
Speaker 3: everything stays put. And when you do do that, then

955
00:44:01,918 --> 00:44:03,758
Speaker 3: all of a sudden you create like you said, more time,

956
00:44:04,038 --> 00:44:06,118
Speaker 3: see the ball longer if you stay behind the ball,

957
00:44:06,118 --> 00:44:08,798
Speaker 3: which makes it stronger. But this is an age old

958
00:44:08,878 --> 00:44:11,398
Speaker 3: discipline problem where guys want to drift or walk towards

959
00:44:11,438 --> 00:44:13,878
Speaker 3: the mound. And like you suggest, it is absolutely true.

960
00:44:13,918 --> 00:44:16,798
Speaker 3: The pitch gets faster, pitchers get quicker because you're shortening

961
00:44:16,838 --> 00:44:19,198
Speaker 3: up the distance and your head's moving so much. So

962
00:44:19,758 --> 00:44:22,398
Speaker 3: that makes all the sense in the world to me.

963
00:44:22,638 --> 00:44:25,438
Speaker 3: And what the coach there did, and I one hundred

964
00:44:25,478 --> 00:44:27,478
Speaker 3: thousand percent believer in this. You have to create the

965
00:44:27,558 --> 00:44:32,118
Speaker 3: right field. Drill work done properly is the d way

966
00:44:32,158 --> 00:44:34,598
Speaker 3: to go in regarding to on a daily basis or

967
00:44:34,638 --> 00:44:38,278
Speaker 3: when you're attempting to elicit a change. Because until arm

968
00:44:38,398 --> 00:44:41,878
Speaker 3: Crawenstrong said I feel it. He didn't know it, but

969
00:44:41,918 --> 00:44:43,918
Speaker 3: the moment because he understood what the coach was saying,

970
00:44:43,958 --> 00:44:45,958
Speaker 3: I get this, I know you're talking about, do this,

971
00:44:45,998 --> 00:44:48,718
Speaker 3: do that. But and then all of a sudden he

972
00:44:48,758 --> 00:44:50,398
Speaker 3: takes a swing and all of a sudden, poom, there

973
00:44:50,398 --> 00:44:52,518
Speaker 3: it goes, and he says, man, I felt it, And

974
00:44:52,558 --> 00:44:56,118
Speaker 3: the coach standing right there, says exactly, that's what we're

975
00:44:56,118 --> 00:44:58,278
Speaker 3: trying to get done, and at that point you have

976
00:44:58,358 --> 00:45:02,958
Speaker 3: an adjustment that can last. Zobrist. Ben Zobrist in two

977
00:45:02,998 --> 00:45:06,358
Speaker 3: thousand and eight was kind of like Peter Armstrong, who's

978
00:45:06,358 --> 00:45:09,518
Speaker 3: like the line drive flipping the ball to center field,

979
00:45:09,518 --> 00:45:11,678
Speaker 3: groundball kind of stuff. He goes back to Triple A.

980
00:45:12,878 --> 00:45:15,318
Speaker 3: I don't know what was Hindu, Steve Henderson, whomever, but

981
00:45:15,398 --> 00:45:17,678
Speaker 3: he comes back and my god, the ball's going in

982
00:45:17,678 --> 00:45:19,878
Speaker 3: the stands. We go to play Detroit at the end

983
00:45:19,878 --> 00:45:21,998
Speaker 3: of the year and Leland Jimmy says, my god, I

984
00:45:22,038 --> 00:45:24,998
Speaker 3: love this guy Zobrist because all of a sudden, because

985
00:45:25,038 --> 00:45:28,078
Speaker 3: those are pretty big guy power was added to his swing.

986
00:45:29,038 --> 00:45:31,518
Speaker 3: Of course, it can be done. Feel is it's all

987
00:45:31,558 --> 00:45:34,278
Speaker 3: about field. You has as a coach. You have to

988
00:45:34,278 --> 00:45:37,878
Speaker 3: put your your pupil in a position to feel what

989
00:45:37,998 --> 00:45:39,838
Speaker 3: you're trying to get across. And like I said, once

990
00:45:39,878 --> 00:45:40,998
Speaker 3: you feel it, you know it.

991
00:45:41,518 --> 00:45:44,118
Speaker 1: I love these stories, Joe, because you know, a lot

992
00:45:44,118 --> 00:45:45,878
Speaker 1: of fans think guys get to the major leagues and

993
00:45:45,878 --> 00:45:48,958
Speaker 1: their finished products, and the fact that major league coaches

994
00:45:49,598 --> 00:45:51,998
Speaker 1: make a difference, and they make a huge difference, especially

995
00:45:52,078 --> 00:45:54,198
Speaker 1: in today's game because guys get there very quickly.

996
00:45:55,118 --> 00:45:56,838
Speaker 2: It just goes to show you a reminder of how

997
00:45:56,878 --> 00:45:57,598
Speaker 2: important they are.

998
00:45:57,798 --> 00:45:59,958
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean that that's it. I mean, and turn

999
00:45:59,998 --> 00:46:02,118
Speaker 3: them loose, turn them loose. I mean, that's just good

1000
00:46:02,118 --> 00:46:06,438
Speaker 3: old baseball acumen right there, making that adjustment. And that's

1001
00:46:06,478 --> 00:46:10,678
Speaker 3: the thing, man. I never felt inhibited by anybody within

1002
00:46:10,718 --> 00:46:13,798
Speaker 3: the organization regarding what to teach and how to teach.

1003
00:46:13,798 --> 00:46:16,198
Speaker 3: It developed all these kind of drills in the eighties

1004
00:46:16,238 --> 00:46:20,198
Speaker 3: and the nineties, with velocity at short distances, heavy bats,

1005
00:46:20,598 --> 00:46:23,078
Speaker 3: all this different stuff. I was never discouraged to try

1006
00:46:23,118 --> 00:46:27,318
Speaker 3: different things like that, and all I was written like

1007
00:46:27,398 --> 00:46:31,118
Speaker 3: this hundred page thing on hitting did in the nineteen eighties,

1008
00:46:31,118 --> 00:46:33,518
Speaker 3: and I still got to dress it up a little bit,

1009
00:46:33,798 --> 00:46:38,158
Speaker 3: but the one section is about field drills and anything

1010
00:46:38,198 --> 00:46:40,198
Speaker 3: I try to do an attempt to elicit a change

1011
00:46:40,198 --> 00:46:42,438
Speaker 3: with Tom Raducci swing, I had to put you into

1012
00:46:42,438 --> 00:46:45,318
Speaker 3: positions that you felt the difference. So because the moment

1013
00:46:45,398 --> 00:46:48,038
Speaker 3: you felt the difference and saw the result, now you

1014
00:46:48,078 --> 00:46:50,158
Speaker 3: know I know him on the right path. But until

1015
00:46:50,198 --> 00:46:54,918
Speaker 3: you could actually put together the information and feel simultaneously,

1016
00:46:55,318 --> 00:46:56,438
Speaker 3: we don't have anything yet.

1017
00:46:56,678 --> 00:46:58,798
Speaker 1: Good stuff, Joe, and it's time for our core of

1018
00:46:58,838 --> 00:47:01,158
Speaker 1: the day, and you alluded to it early on. It

1019
00:47:01,198 --> 00:47:04,318
Speaker 1: sounds like we're going full circle back to to the

1020
00:47:04,358 --> 00:47:06,678
Speaker 1: Baltimore Orioles firing Brandon Hyde.

1021
00:47:06,838 --> 00:47:09,718
Speaker 3: We are. This is from Thomas Sowell. The most basic

1022
00:47:09,798 --> 00:47:13,118
Speaker 3: question is not what is best, but who shall decide

1023
00:47:13,198 --> 00:47:17,238
Speaker 3: what is best? Decision making? Listen, I've been all about

1024
00:47:17,238 --> 00:47:20,758
Speaker 3: it the best organizations for years. They always work well

1025
00:47:20,798 --> 00:47:23,838
Speaker 3: from the top down ownership. It always starts there, and

1026
00:47:23,838 --> 00:47:26,238
Speaker 3: then you get to a front office and who is

1027
00:47:26,478 --> 00:47:29,318
Speaker 3: who are the decision making the scouting? Scouting and player

1028
00:47:29,358 --> 00:47:34,598
Speaker 3: development still the heartbeat of any organization. And whose eyes

1029
00:47:34,678 --> 00:47:36,758
Speaker 3: are we relying on here? Now? I know in today's

1030
00:47:36,758 --> 00:47:39,358
Speaker 3: world it's a lot of data driven stuff, and I

1031
00:47:39,398 --> 00:47:42,638
Speaker 3: am all for that. I want absolutely thousand percent. I

1032
00:47:42,678 --> 00:47:46,198
Speaker 3: always wanted that stuff. But I also like real eyes

1033
00:47:46,598 --> 00:47:50,278
Speaker 3: on these human beings also, and then also within the

1034
00:47:50,318 --> 00:47:53,878
Speaker 3: eyes the conversation what makes this guy tech? Like? You're

1035
00:47:53,918 --> 00:47:56,518
Speaker 3: talking about the Oriols a minute ago, and we're talking

1036
00:47:56,558 --> 00:47:58,358
Speaker 3: about I wrote it down here because I mean, you

1037
00:47:58,438 --> 00:48:01,718
Speaker 3: never questioned anybody's heart, But where's their competitive nature? They

1038
00:48:01,718 --> 00:48:05,438
Speaker 3: all seem to all of a sudden simultaneously become lethargic,

1039
00:48:05,518 --> 00:48:07,878
Speaker 3: or they've they've lost this kind of a thing because

1040
00:48:07,878 --> 00:48:10,678
Speaker 3: they're struggling a little bit. That bothers me. So that

1041
00:48:10,798 --> 00:48:13,318
Speaker 3: was number one of the most basic question is not

1042
00:48:13,438 --> 00:48:15,598
Speaker 3: what is best, but who shall decide what is best?

1043
00:48:15,678 --> 00:48:20,358
Speaker 3: I've always believed in that last point, not to decide

1044
00:48:20,638 --> 00:48:24,318
Speaker 3: is is also a decision in a baseball game. As

1045
00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:27,758
Speaker 3: a manager, I would always try to attempt to portray

1046
00:48:27,838 --> 00:48:29,878
Speaker 3: that after a game when I was asked about you know,

1047
00:48:29,918 --> 00:48:32,678
Speaker 3: different things happen in the game when you decide not

1048
00:48:32,758 --> 00:48:35,518
Speaker 3: to do something. Nobody knows that, right, because the only

1049
00:48:35,558 --> 00:48:38,038
Speaker 3: decisions we recognize are ones where you actually pull a trigger.

1050
00:48:38,198 --> 00:48:39,838
Speaker 3: You know, you got out there and you make a move,

1051
00:48:39,838 --> 00:48:42,198
Speaker 3: whether it's a pitching move or maybe move your defense around.

1052
00:48:42,238 --> 00:48:45,958
Speaker 3: That's obvious. But you also ruminate over things and then

1053
00:48:45,958 --> 00:48:49,038
Speaker 3: you decide not to do anything. And that's very powerful too,

1054
00:48:49,078 --> 00:48:51,838
Speaker 3: that people never know when you make a decision to

1055
00:48:51,958 --> 00:48:55,118
Speaker 3: not react or act, and those are also important. And

1056
00:48:55,118 --> 00:48:57,438
Speaker 3: again I'm going to go back to cash. Brian Cash,

1057
00:48:57,438 --> 00:48:59,798
Speaker 3: whan I thought he did a great job when they

1058
00:48:59,798 --> 00:49:01,798
Speaker 3: were at two games over five hundred a couple of

1059
00:49:01,838 --> 00:49:05,558
Speaker 3: years ago, and he decided to go a different route,

1060
00:49:05,638 --> 00:49:09,078
Speaker 3: and that was to stay with a pat hand and

1061
00:49:09,238 --> 00:49:11,518
Speaker 3: go internal and let's make this thing work from within.

1062
00:49:12,158 --> 00:49:14,198
Speaker 3: I love that. I even told him that. I told

1063
00:49:14,238 --> 00:49:16,318
Speaker 3: him how what a great job I thought he did

1064
00:49:17,518 --> 00:49:21,558
Speaker 3: putting that back together. So not to decide to not

1065
00:49:21,678 --> 00:49:23,398
Speaker 3: do something is also a decision.

1066
00:49:23,718 --> 00:49:26,398
Speaker 2: Good stuff, Joe. We will meet again next week and.

1067
00:49:26,358 --> 00:49:30,918
Speaker 1: Hopefully we don't have another manager fire to talk about.

1068
00:49:31,718 --> 00:49:33,438
Speaker 3: I hope not, Tony. Thanks buddy.

1069
00:49:40,678 --> 00:49:43,918
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1070
00:49:44,118 --> 00:49:49,118
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.