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Speaker 1: This is Bloombird Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: What is one for the Morning? The King of Rock

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Speaker 1: and Roll, Elvis Prasley is a cultural icon, instantly recognizable

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Speaker 1: to generations of music fans. His former home, grace Land,

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Speaker 1: was declared a National Historic Monument, hosting half a million

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Speaker 1: people every year, and more than forty five years after

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Speaker 1: his death, Elvis earns tens of millions of dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: A recent biopic has put his name in legacy back

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Speaker 1: in the mainstream. Unfortunately, so has the death of his

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Speaker 1: only child, Lisa Marie Presley at the age of fifty four.

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Speaker 1: Her mother, Priscilla Presley, spoke at her daughter's funeral at Graceland.

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Speaker 1: Our heart is broken, Lisa. We all love you now.

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Speaker 1: Priscilla Presley is challenging the validity of her daughter's will,

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Speaker 1: specifically a sixteen amendment to the document that out did

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Speaker 1: Priscilla and a former business manager, Barry Siegel, as co trustees,

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Speaker 1: replacing them with Lisa Marie's eldest daughter, Riley Kyo and

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Speaker 1: her late son Benjamin Keio. Priscilla claims there are several

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Speaker 1: problems with the amendment, including a mismatched signature joining me

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Speaker 1: as trust and a state's attorney. Sarah Wentz, a partner

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Speaker 1: at Fox Rolph Child Sarah Priscilla Presley, said she found

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Speaker 1: this amendment, which is dated in March of after her

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Speaker 1: daughter's death. Is it unusual that after all these years,

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Speaker 1: no one has talked about this, and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden she finds this. It is and I think that

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Speaker 1: it probably indicates that there is a decision not to

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Speaker 1: make it effective, because if she really did chinance, and

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of questions about whether her

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Speaker 1: signature and whether the document that was prepared was signed

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Speaker 1: because there's no there's no provisions on the signature pages.

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Speaker 1: But if she really did sign it, the way that

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Speaker 1: her trust was created that was fully amended and restated

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, it said that delivery to

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Speaker 1: the trustees was required to make a change effective. So

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Speaker 1: it indicates, you know that she never delivered it, and

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Speaker 1: she clearly knew that her mom and very single were

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Speaker 1: serving as the trustees. So I think the court would

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Speaker 1: look at it and say, well, she must have known

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Speaker 1: or decided against it, and which is why she didn't

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Speaker 1: deliver it. Think it's hard to argue that she intended

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Speaker 1: it to be effective but then held onto it all

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Speaker 1: these years. There are several things that Priscilla Presley alleges

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Speaker 1: were problematic with this amendment. Just tell us what they are. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the first thing is really what I just explained,

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Speaker 1: that if you create a trust document and you state

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Speaker 1: that there's a specific way in which it must be amended,

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Speaker 1: then that is the exact and only way that the

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Speaker 1: trust can be amended. And there's a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: that a trust can be amended if you don't have

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Speaker 1: that language in there. But the primary question is if

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Speaker 1: it says that it has to be amended in a

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Speaker 1: particular way, which includes effective delivery to the existing trustees

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Speaker 1: of the change, then a court will generally just say

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Speaker 1: it's not effective, no matter if she signed it, if

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Speaker 1: she intended it to be the case. If she didn't

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Speaker 1: effectively deliver it to the trustees, then she didn't do

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Speaker 1: what she herself wrote in the trust document was required.

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Speaker 1: So that's the first issue. It's the court just stops

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Speaker 1: there and says it's not effective. They probably won't go

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Speaker 1: any further to look at the other issues. But I

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Speaker 1: think the second issue is there's a presumption that if

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Speaker 1: you don't have any witnesses and any notary and there's

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Speaker 1: a signature on a page that has no content the

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Speaker 1: rest of the document, that it's possible there was some

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Speaker 1: sort of fraud involved. I mean, it's not unusual that

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Speaker 1: their signature page maybe doesn't have substantive language on it,

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Speaker 1: but to also have it not witnessed and not notarized,

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Speaker 1: plus to have that separate signature page with nothing on it,

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Speaker 1: I think that creates a problem for them. You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe if there was no question about this trust, that

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Speaker 1: could possibly pass because it's not required to have witnesses

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Speaker 1: and an odorian a trust's amendment unless the trust required

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Speaker 1: it to. It's just that it's really suspects given a situation.

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Speaker 1: Does seem unusual that Lisa Marie was battling with Barry Siegel,

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Speaker 1: who was listed as a co trustee since and so

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Speaker 1: it seems logical that you wouldn't want him to be

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Speaker 1: a co trustee. Right in somewhere the documents indicated that

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Speaker 1: he was going to be stepping down as trustee, So

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Speaker 1: maybe that was an agreement that they had reached. Put

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Speaker 1: your right if if you're battling with somebody. And remember

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Speaker 1: this is a revocable trust, So this is a trust

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Speaker 1: that she could have changed at any time as long

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Speaker 1: as she did it in the right way. It's unusual

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Speaker 1: that he would have continued to serve during those years

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Speaker 1: when they were having a debt dispute. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't really know the background on that, but that is

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Speaker 1: wholly unusual. Lisa Marie is survived by three daughters, Riley Kio,

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Speaker 1: who is thirty three, and twin girls who are fourteen.

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Speaker 1: So why does Priscilla's petitions say that Riley would be

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Speaker 1: substituted for Singer as a trustee. It is in a

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Speaker 1: petition on page six where it says that since Riley

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Speaker 1: is over the age of thirty, she could act as

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Speaker 1: a coach trustee on her sub trust upon delivering a

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Speaker 1: written instrument to the trustee consenting that she acts. So

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Speaker 1: it sounds like the trust creates a share for each

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Speaker 1: of the children and then over their particular sub trusts,

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Speaker 1: they could become at it as a co trustee at

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Speaker 1: age thirty, which is somewhat normal if you have minor

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Speaker 1: children or younger children. There's been no comment from Riley

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Speaker 1: about her grandmother's challenge to the will. But just supposed

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Speaker 1: that Riley doesn't want to serve as co trustee, what

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Speaker 1: kind of problems would that cause. I don't think she's

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Speaker 1: going to have much of a choice, you know, based

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Speaker 1: on this document, and you know, from a trust lawyer's perspective,

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Speaker 1: Priscilla Pressley has done a pretty amazing job of revising

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Speaker 1: the Elvis Presley estates. You know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: case law and a lot of things that happened with

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Speaker 1: that estate that you know is essentially broke at one time,

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Speaker 1: and so she's got a lot of experience. So I

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Speaker 1: think having a co trustee that can at least educate

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Speaker 1: the new trustee who hasn't historically been involved in the

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Speaker 1: business feelings is a really important thing to have in

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Speaker 1: the transition along the way. Because it's Riley we're to

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Speaker 1: just take over and doesn't have the business experience and

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Speaker 1: the knowledge of what is required to keep the museums

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Speaker 1: and grace land and all those things afloat. The estate

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Speaker 1: could be dwindled down back to nothing. And I think

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Speaker 1: with these minor beneficiaries, the other daughters that are also beneficiaries,

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Speaker 1: I think that a court would be concerned putting somebody

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Speaker 1: who's young and doesn't have any business experience to take

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Speaker 1: this over when there's other people that have as taken this.

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious as to whether or not there would

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Speaker 1: be any way for her to challenge her grandmother being trusty,

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Speaker 1: not that there's any indication she intends to do that.

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Speaker 1: I think right now, the only way that she could

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Speaker 1: really argue that Priscilla was not an appropriate trustee is

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Speaker 1: if she had some sort of proof or evidence that

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Speaker 1: she couldn't be fair and impartial to her, that she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be acting in her best interests. You know, maybe

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Speaker 1: if there was a strange relationship and she had done

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Speaker 1: things in the past that would evidence that she couldn't

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Speaker 1: be control Because as a trustee, there's a fiduciary duty

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Speaker 1: to that beneficiary, and if she could not be impartial

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Speaker 1: and do her duty to that beneficiary, then that is

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Speaker 1: when Riley could say, hey, this isn't the right trustee.

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Speaker 1: Here's the examples that I have showing that she's breached

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Speaker 1: her fuduciary duty to me. But short of breaching fuduciary duty,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to remove a trustee that's been put

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Speaker 1: in the document, not just after recently passed away, But

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Speaker 1: it's highly unusual in the first place to put somebody

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Speaker 1: in as a trust fee over your revocable trust during

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Speaker 1: your lifetime. Now, that would indicate that she felt like

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Speaker 1: she needed the involvement and help of Polucionary back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand ten when she added her on this document,

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Speaker 1: and Lisamary could have just served as her sole trustee

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Speaker 1: until her death, which would be more typical, and then

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Speaker 1: had mom step in. And in that case, Riley could say,

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Speaker 1: you know, Grandma's not qualified to do it and make

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Speaker 1: other arguments. But in this case, she's been acting and

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Speaker 1: hadn't been removed up until Lisa's death, so I think

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Speaker 1: it would be very difficult for her to remove her.

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Speaker 1: Lisa Marie sold off of Elvis Presley Enterprises assets for

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Speaker 1: about a hundred million in two thousand four. Do we

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Speaker 1: know what's actually in the trust besides of that company?

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Speaker 1: I don't think we know that. So because it's a

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Speaker 1: revocable trust and reasonably could assign her assets to that

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Speaker 1: trust during her lifetime, there's no requirements that approbate happened

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Speaker 1: with those assets. So the only thing we really have

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Speaker 1: is what ends up in a court dispute. So you know,

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Speaker 1: there are certain provisions that are quoted in the petition,

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Speaker 1: but I don't believe at least the petition I received

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Speaker 1: did not have a copy of the trust attached to it,

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Speaker 1: or did it haven't indication of exactly all the assets

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Speaker 1: that are within it, because apparently there's some kind of

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Speaker 1: dynamic tim at going on because Joel weinshank Or, who's

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Speaker 1: the managing partner of the Elvis Presley Enterprises, has said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was clear that Lisa Mury wanted her

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Speaker 1: two children at the time her son has died since then,

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Speaker 1: to be the co trustees. Now, Priscilla Presley alludes to

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Speaker 1: an individual that bought their way into the family enterprise

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Speaker 1: that is trying to speak on behalf of our family.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that's where the dispute is arising from?

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Speaker 1: Since we haven't heard from Lisa Marie's children, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have heard that various things about you know, people

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Speaker 1: within that enterprise indicating that Lisa had said that. But

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Speaker 1: and perhaps her children haven't come forward. But Priscilla is

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Speaker 1: just trying to cut this off, you know, and maybe

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Speaker 1: what's happened is Priscilla has been making decisions and getting

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Speaker 1: pushed back from them saying, you know, we think someone

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Speaker 1: else is going to be the trustee and you're going

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Speaker 1: to be removed, and she just wants to clear that up.

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Speaker 1: That's possible that it's come from their side. It's um

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Speaker 1: a little unusual that they would choose to speak on

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Speaker 1: this issue, because you know, the courts will say people

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Speaker 1: have an opportunity to put down their wishes in a

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Speaker 1: state planning document, and when there's rumors of other people saying, well,

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Speaker 1: they wanted this and they wanted that, it's like, we

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Speaker 1: have an opportunity to do that, and that's why we

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Speaker 1: draft the trust And I just think that the fact

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Speaker 1: that her mother was acting as trusty up until the

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Speaker 1: day that she died, and she was well aware of that,

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Speaker 1: and she hadn't delivered any documents to her saying I

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Speaker 1: want you to be the moved when I passed away,

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Speaker 1: I think that really indicates that maybe she thought the

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Speaker 1: kids were about ready to take over, but not ready

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Speaker 1: enough to actually remove her mom. So I just don't

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Speaker 1: think that a court is going to do that. Well,

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Speaker 1: the court looked just at the document itself and what

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Speaker 1: Priscilla Presley alludes to. Or will the court go beyond

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Speaker 1: that and try to divine the inti engins of Lisa

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Speaker 1: Marie Presley. It's unlikely if they look at the intentions

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Speaker 1: unless there's an allegation that there was delivery of this

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Speaker 1: document and it just wasn't acknowledged, or you know, if

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Speaker 1: somebody can prove that there was an email center, or

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Speaker 1: you know, some lawyers says, you know, I sent it

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Speaker 1: to them, I delivered it to them, we had a

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Speaker 1: conversation about it, and then there was a fight about

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Speaker 1: them stepping down and it just never happened. Or you know,

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Speaker 1: if something like that comes out in court testimony that

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Speaker 1: she really did try to remove them and you know

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Speaker 1: they just said no, then I think there could be

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Speaker 1: a question about what was her real intent, and they

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Speaker 1: could take testimony from witnesses on that issue. But I

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Speaker 1: really think there's going to have to be some indication

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Speaker 1: that she did effectively deliver this because otherwise the court

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Speaker 1: is you know that the law says that if you

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Speaker 1: state in your trust documents how it has to be amended,

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Speaker 1: then it has to be done in that way or

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Speaker 1: it's just effective, So they don't even get there unless

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Speaker 1: somebody can show that she really did deliver it. But

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Speaker 1: now that's possible. All we have is their word saying

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Speaker 1: that it was never delivered. But also there's this issue

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Speaker 1: that at least in the petition, they indicate that the

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Speaker 1: original had not been located, and that's another hurdles that

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Speaker 1: someone in need to prove, is that there is an

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Speaker 1: original out there and that recentarly didn't intentionally destroy it

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Speaker 1: because she could have signed a document decided I really

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Speaker 1: don't want to remove them and ShredIt it, and then

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Speaker 1: somebody finds a copy of it and tries to use

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Speaker 1: it after the fact. So you know, that's going to

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Speaker 1: be an issue if they if they get that far,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be an issue. They're going to have

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Speaker 1: to address why and where is the original exists and

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Speaker 1: who drafted it. How long will it take do you

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Speaker 1: think for a court to resolve this? It really depends

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Speaker 1: if the court decides that on the primary issue of

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Speaker 1: effective deliveries. If they don't decide it on that issue,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't schedule it on for evidentiary hearings to talk

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Speaker 1: to more witnesses and a little more discovery. But if

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Speaker 1: they do decided on the primary issue, which is my

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Speaker 1: inclination from at least what I've read in the petition,

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Speaker 1: then they would probably decided at the core hearing over

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Speaker 1: and over again. You know, you have these high profile

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Speaker 1: individuals and they haven't tied up all the loose ends

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Speaker 1: of you know, what might happen after they dine. It

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Speaker 1: seems so unusual when they're surrounded by business advisors and lawyers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these questions often arise with big celebrities. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I worked with a

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Speaker 1: lot of actors, musicians, NFL athletes, you know, people who

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Speaker 1: have such busy lives that this is kind of the

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Speaker 1: last thing they want to deal with, and it tends

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Speaker 1: to be pushed down the line of you know, and

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Speaker 1: and people also feel like they're they're going to live forever.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I was just having a conversation with

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Speaker 1: the musician last week and um, you know, somebody who

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Speaker 1: was a little younger, and they're like, why why are

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Speaker 1: you asking all these questions about when I die? And

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Speaker 1: you know it, it's like it's just it's such so

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Speaker 1: unpalatable for them to think about. And um, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I pointed out is listen,

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Speaker 1: you have creative work, if you care about the works

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Speaker 1: that you've built during your lifetime, then we really need

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Speaker 1: to put a plan together of how they're going to

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Speaker 1: get managed to make sure that you're creative intent is

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Speaker 1: followed through by whoever you put in charge. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think talking to him about that made him a

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Speaker 1: little more interested in actually trying to, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: put a plan together because it wasn't focused as much

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Speaker 1: on I'm going to be I'm going to die. It

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Speaker 1: was more of if something happens to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: what does this look like? And I think that especially

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Speaker 1: with LUSA Marie and everything that's happened with the Elvis

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Speaker 1: to state, there's so many questions there about, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: what things should they get involved in? What type of

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Speaker 1: advertising should they let the creative you know, name enlightness

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Speaker 1: and image be involved in that. You know, it's somewhat

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Speaker 1: surprising to me that she wouldn't have spent a little

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Speaker 1: more time on that because that issue has been so

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Speaker 1: hotly contested with a lot of celebrities estates. So I

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Speaker 1: agree with you, but I would say it's not uncommon. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: apparently though what I've been reading is she may actually

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Speaker 1: have creditors and all the I R S money, So

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Speaker 1: that's something that the estate will have to deal with, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right, And um, you know, whether or not they

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Speaker 1: could actually see the assets if they're in an entity

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Speaker 1: you know, will be a question that gets looked at.

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Speaker 1: But generally, the first thing that happens when somebody is

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Speaker 1: administering in a state when somebody passed away is they

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Speaker 1: have to pay any lawful creditors and you deal with

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Speaker 1: those issues and any estate tax owed to the I

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Speaker 1: R S within nine months of somebody passing away, So

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Speaker 1: that needs to be handled off the top. So if

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Speaker 1: there aren't other assets to pay those predators, then it's

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Speaker 1: the case where sometimes you have to loan against the

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Speaker 1: assets that are in the trust, and there are some

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Speaker 1: companies out there that would be that, or you would

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Speaker 1: need to sell assets off in order to create the

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Speaker 1: cash to pay the debt. Somebody has to take care

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Speaker 1: of that, and I think that also is something that

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Speaker 1: is a ton of work and for somebody to handle

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Speaker 1: that who has never done it before without the help

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Speaker 1: of managers and people who you know, understand how this works.

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Speaker 1: I think it would be a pretty big undertaking for

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Speaker 1: her director step into because I saw these articles that said, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's a money grab or does it depend on the

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Speaker 1: trust how much the trustee makes um. It does depend

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Speaker 1: on the trust. There can be um a provision in

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Speaker 1: the trust that actually dictates how much the trust he

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Speaker 1: has paid UM. But California has a statutory amounts that

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Speaker 1: individual who's being the executor of an estate or trustee

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Speaker 1: can be charged, and it's a sliding scale, so it's

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Speaker 1: four percent of the first hundred thousand, three percent of

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Speaker 1: the next hundred and it's calculated based on the total

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Speaker 1: value of the estate. So it's hard to say exactly

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Speaker 1: what it is. But again, somebody can put into a

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Speaker 1: trust document different provisions if they choose to, for the

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Speaker 1: work that's being done by that role, and it sometimes

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Speaker 1: lose some money grabbed for people. You know, I would

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Speaker 1: be curious as to whether her mom had been charging

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Speaker 1: for that role as trustee in the past, because if

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Speaker 1: she had, the fees would probably be along the same lines,

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Speaker 1: and the court would probably be inclined to keep them

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Speaker 1: as to what they were being paid during her lifetime

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Speaker 1: because it might indicate that was you know, the arrangement

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Speaker 1: that they wanted, so she may not have been charging

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Speaker 1: at all, and she may not charge in the future.

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Speaker 1: It's not uncommon for family members who are serving trustee

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Speaker 1: to to not charge for them. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: being on the show, Sarah, that's true us in a

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Speaker 1: State's attorney. Sarah Wentz, a partner at Fox Rothschild. And

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Speaker 1: that's it for this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show.

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Speaker 1: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on

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Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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Speaker 1: and at www dot Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Slash Law,

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Speaker 1: and remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every

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Speaker 1: week night at ten pm Wall Street Time. I'm June

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Speaker 1: Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg