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Speaker 1: Do you think performing nude is why they called him

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Speaker 1: the terrifying penis Terris? I'm sorry, did I miss hear that?

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Speaker 2: You misheard it.

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Speaker 3: Campsite media?

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Speaker 2: All right, Rory, I have a question for you. Go

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Speaker 2: for it, Josh.

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Speaker 1: How would you fake your death if you were to

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Speaker 1: want to figure death? I?

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Speaker 2: Oh, man, so we were Okay, So now we're living

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Speaker 2: in a world where I need to fake my death.

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Speaker 2: I don't. This is where I'm not even smart enough

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Speaker 2: to know the best way to do it, because I

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Speaker 2: almost started giving you ways in which I would kill myself.

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Speaker 2: That's the opposite of faking your day exactly. That's that's

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Speaker 2: over commitment. That's the that's the person who two committed

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Speaker 2: to faking their death. Okay, I would. I would say

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Speaker 2: that I'm going boating, which anyone who knows me would

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Speaker 2: be like, that was a what a curveball? He never

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Speaker 2: did that, I would say. I would. I would leave

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Speaker 2: some sort of evidence that I've gone boating alone, as

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Speaker 2: I often do, and I would go out to see

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Speaker 2: and I would I honestly, I'd try to just do

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Speaker 2: what Michael Caine and Christian Bale did in the Dark Knight.

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Speaker 2: I would have Michael. I'd probably get Michael Kine to

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Speaker 2: pick me up on a helicopter and I'd go live

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Speaker 2: in Italy.

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Speaker 1: It's expensive and complicated, but it could work.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I gave you a possible scenario.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're really gonna like this week's episode then, because

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Speaker 1: you're you're kind of spot on with the story we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about. So this week we are discussing

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Speaker 1: the phenomenon of people who try to fake their own deaths.

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Speaker 2: After the Break, Just an asterisk, this episode has nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with Michael Kaine. For anyone who thought when

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Speaker 2: Josh said I'm pretty close that part was not close.

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Speaker 1: You Michael Kaine's actually been dead for decades.

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Speaker 2: He faked it. I mean when he came back as

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Speaker 2: actor Michael and I just went with the same name.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Crime List, the podcast that celebrates the

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Speaker 1: amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.

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Speaker 2: I'm Josh Dean and I am Rory Scobell.

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Speaker 1: This week we look at the fascinating and often hilarious

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Speaker 1: world of fake deaths. Death objectively not funny at all,

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Speaker 1: with some exceptions, fake death's often pretty hilarious, really fun

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Speaker 1: to talk about like the case we're going to unpack

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Speaker 1: this week when in otherwise extremely basic father three from

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin went out one day to do an extremely basic

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Speaker 1: weekend dad activity.

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Speaker 2: He went kayaking, but he never came home. He went

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Speaker 2: to get cigarettes on a kayak.

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Speaker 1: Cops assumed this man was dead, that he drowned, had

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Speaker 1: wandered off into the woods, or maybe was beamed up

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Speaker 1: into spaceship.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: They basically got hung up on the idea that this

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin dad was a goner. But spoiler alert, he was not.

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Speaker 1: We recorded this episode a while ago while the case

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Speaker 1: was still ongoing, so you'll hear are in the moment

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Speaker 1: wild speculations, and thanks to our updates, you're also going

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Speaker 1: to get the satisfaction of knowing how it all worked

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Speaker 1: out in the end.

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Speaker 2: Closure, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Do you think faking your death is actually a crime,

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Speaker 1: because technically we're supposed to be talking about crimes here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, is the thinking that if you have

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Speaker 2: faked your own death, it's because you are trying to

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Speaker 2: not pay like are people like well? Because for tax purposes,

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Speaker 2: you can't fake your own death. So I guess if

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Speaker 2: I were to fake my own death, that's the closest

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Speaker 2: I'll ever get to being a billionaire. We both get

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Speaker 2: to avoid taxes.

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Speaker 1: Or I would think most people who fake their death

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Speaker 1: are well, obviously I should about to say most. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're all hiding from running from something, right, I would

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Speaker 1: assume in most cases it's a crime, but maybe not always.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, are there any other circumstances under which

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Speaker 1: you might fake your death?

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you've murdered someone, or you're a criminal.

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Speaker 2: If you're a criminal, you've got to fake your own death.

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Speaker 2: Or you could be a victim and you need to

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Speaker 2: fake your own.

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Speaker 1: Death, like Witness Protection.

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Speaker 2: But dy yep, why Witness Protection is a TV show?

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Speaker 2: We're now pitch.

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Speaker 1: It kind of great? Actually, well yeah, I mean so

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Speaker 1: technically I have the answer. It's not technically a crime.

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Speaker 1: You could fake your death tomorrow and that would be fine.

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Speaker 1: No one's going to go hold. I mean, your wife

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Speaker 1: might be upset, right, and your daughter, I think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they wouldn't be happy about it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, most people fake their own deaths. Don't do

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Speaker 1: it just to disappear. I think in most cases they've

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Speaker 1: committed a crime small or large, probably large. And the

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Speaker 1: stories we found are often it's financial crimes. In most cases,

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Speaker 1: at least the stories that we looked at, it was

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Speaker 1: people who got themselves into a lot of trouble financially,

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Speaker 1: couldn't pay back whatever they owed or had stolen money,

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Speaker 1: and we're going.

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Speaker 2: To go to jail.

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Speaker 1: So lots of they said, okay, yeah, so it feels

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Speaker 1: like there's other ways out of it. This is a

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Speaker 1: very dramatic solution to a problem. But I guess if

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Speaker 1: you have millions of dollars, it could be the only solution.

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Speaker 1: It might be the only solution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I was thinking about this was because

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Speaker 1: I saw a story on the BBC about a guy

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Speaker 1: named Ryan Borgwart who went missing in the summer of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four on a kayaking trip in Wisconsin. So smart,

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Speaker 1: so Ryan went with your answer. He decided I need

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Speaker 1: to disappear.

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Speaker 2: And all of his friends Ryan, you never kayak? What

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Speaker 2: do you mean you're going kayaking this weekend? And why

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Speaker 2: are you telling so many of us.

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Speaker 1: Posting it on his socials? Just going kayaking?

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Speaker 2: Guys? You guys know me kayak kayak time.

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Speaker 1: So he was forty five, married, father of three, So

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Speaker 1: this is I mean, I guess we're laughing. That's the

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Speaker 1: sad part. I mean, I'm sure his wife and kids

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Speaker 1: were not thrilled when this well, first of all, not

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Speaker 1: thrilled when he went kayaking and didn't come home. But

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Speaker 1: he texted his wife saying he was on the kayak,

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Speaker 1: he was about to call it a day, he was

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Speaker 1: about to come back to shore and he would see

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Speaker 1: her soon. And then he never came home.

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Speaker 2: Oh man. So I don't want to jump too far

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Speaker 2: ahead in questions, but what time frame are we looking

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Speaker 2: at from him deciding to fake his own death to

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Speaker 2: getting caught? And I'm only asking because I want to

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Speaker 2: know what sort of emotional roller coaster timeframe the family

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Speaker 2: had to go through.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to unspool this for you as it happened.

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Speaker 1: So Ryan calls his wife, coming back, great day out

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Speaker 1: on the yak, as Ryan likes to call it, as

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Speaker 1: Ryan would say, I'm on my way back to shore, honey,

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Speaker 1: I'll see you soon. Ryan doesn't come home, so then

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Speaker 1: she obviously calls the authorities as one did. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think your wife how long would it take

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Speaker 1: your wife to call the cops if you didn't come home?

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Speaker 2: I am so good at responding to text and phone

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Speaker 2: calls because I'm a bit of a lunatic that she

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Speaker 2: would probably do it pretty quickly after enough calls and

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Speaker 2: text of me not responding definitely when I said I

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Speaker 2: was going to be home, and now something like four

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Speaker 2: or five hours has gone by with zero response, she

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Speaker 2: is for sure reached out to all her friends to

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Speaker 2: ask should I call the authorities? And they have all

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Speaker 2: been like yes, because you would never just like my wife,

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Speaker 2: knowing who I am, she's probably what if he's doing

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Speaker 2: a bit? I'm so I gotta say the faking your

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Speaker 2: own death In this instance, it's like all I can

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Speaker 2: think about is where did he leave his car? Are

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Speaker 2: you just are you ready to say goodbye? If you

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Speaker 2: pull it off? Are you ready to say goodbye to everything?

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Speaker 2: Not just people, but possessions? Your car? I gotta say.

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Speaker 2: It feels like Ryan is on a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a retreat. You know, there's retreats where you're not allowed

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Speaker 2: to talk for like two weeks. What of that's where

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Speaker 2: Ryan is doing? Where were you? I told you I

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Speaker 2: was going to that retreat where we're not we have

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Speaker 2: to pretend that we're dead. You don't remember.

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Speaker 1: That, Oh, we're so bad at Google cow we did,

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Speaker 1: I didn't put that in.

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Speaker 2: I forgot. I forget to put it in the cow.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, babe.

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Speaker 1: Well, so authorities go to the lake and they find

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Speaker 1: his kayak capsized and his life jacket is floating in

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Speaker 1: the water. So I'm not sure why Ryan wasn't wearing

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Speaker 1: life jacket, how it came off of him. But they

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Speaker 1: search the lake, they find his car, trailer, fishing rod,

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Speaker 1: and wallet are all in the parking lot, so he's

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Speaker 1: left everything behind as you would when you go kayaking,

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Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't, and nothing suspicious at the scene.

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Speaker 1: They then spent fifty eight days searching for his body

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Speaker 1: using drones, sonar, cadaver dogs. They found no evidence of

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Speaker 1: the body in the lake on the land.

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Speaker 2: He's just gone. No evidence of foul play either. Nope.

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Speaker 1: And I assume if I'm you know, putting myself in

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Speaker 1: Ryan's shoes like his like slipper lake shoes, if I'm

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Speaker 1: putting myself in his little aqua sox, I think he's assuming.

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Speaker 1: Of course they're gonna think I drown, right like my

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Speaker 1: life I wasn't wearing my life jacket and I fell

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Speaker 1: out of the kayak for some reason, and therefore I drowned.

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Speaker 1: But where I think the first flaw on this plant

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Speaker 1: is is that Ryan Like I don't know how big

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Speaker 1: the lake is that he drowned in, but like there's

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Speaker 1: a finite amount of floor on a lake. I feel

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Speaker 1: like at some point they're gonna realize Ryan's not in

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Speaker 1: the lake.

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Speaker 2: It's very Yeah, it's they could skim the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the lake pretty efficiently, I would assume.

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Speaker 1: So ocean feels like, if you're gonna do this next time,

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Speaker 1: you should do the ocean. Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ryan tries this again, He gets got and tries again, Like, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: just move, just divorce your family and move somewhere, Like,

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Speaker 2: quit doing this the people I.

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Speaker 1: Was telling these guys yesterday. Every time I see one

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Speaker 1: of those stories where it's like guy hires hipman to

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Speaker 1: kill his wife because he's got a new girlfriend, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: there's also divorce.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also a much easier way to do this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So Ryan's missing, no sign of his body.

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Speaker 1: But then they learned something. Ryan apparently at the Canadian border.

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Speaker 1: He used his own name and cross the border the

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Speaker 1: day after he went missing. Yep, so I'm not going,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to cast any judgment on this police

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Speaker 1: department because I don't want These are probably hard working officers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like fifty four days searching the lake

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Speaker 1: when he had crossed the border the day after he disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I have a lot of questions there where, Like,

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Speaker 2: I know you're not giving it away, but I'm like,

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Speaker 2: is it right at the border? Is it how they

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Speaker 2: found his car? He had some version of an escape

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Speaker 2: plan to get to the border, to cross the border.

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Speaker 2: I yeah, I don't know. I wanted to give Ryan

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Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt and say maybe alien abduction

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Speaker 2: and he's up there in space somewhere and who knows

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Speaker 2: what they're doing to him.

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Speaker 1: Also, like the Canadian border police, they're like, sir, you're

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Speaker 1: on foot and you're all wet. Yeah, anyways, come on in,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Canada.

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Speaker 2: Do you like steer up?

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Speaker 1: I don't know why the police did not like check

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Speaker 1: the border. I mean, this is in we're talking about Wisconsin, right,

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Speaker 1: I have I already forgotten what's day or in? Oh yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so there you go. They're probably right right there, I know,

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Speaker 1: But Nope, those hardworking Wisconsins. I mean, you know, God

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Speaker 1: bless them. They were searching that lake until there was

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Speaker 1: no inch to be searched, and nobody checks the order.

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Speaker 1: I can imagine like that in the staff meeting at

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Speaker 1: the police station the next day, they're like, did anybody

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Speaker 1: check the order?

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Speaker 2: Dam You're not going to believe this. I just found

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Speaker 2: out the day after he crossed the border. We didn't

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Speaker 2: have to do that lake search. That blew the budget

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Speaker 2: in this town. They actually don't have the money to

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Speaker 2: look for any more bodies the rest of the year.

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Speaker 2: Good place to fake your death.

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Speaker 1: So it turns out that he had reported his passport

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Speaker 1: missing and requested a new one prior to his disappearance.

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Speaker 1: His wife said his original passport was easily found, meaning

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Speaker 1: he was traveling on the new one, but he didn't

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Speaker 1: change his name. Okay, so what happens next? I think

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Speaker 1: this also happens in those killing your spouse stories every time,

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Speaker 1: which is that they get the laptop, they look at

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Speaker 1: the search history and it's like how to kill your

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Speaker 1: wife and get away with it?

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Speaker 2: To say, every time that comes up in a case,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not a murderer, I'm not criminal in any capacity.

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Speaker 2: Maybe The worst thing I've done is parking tickets. You

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Speaker 2: still wouldn't be able to go to my search history

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Speaker 2: and see how to evade parking tickets. You wouldn't even

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Speaker 2: I would have deleted that. I know I can't, but

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Speaker 2: the amount of people that look up suspicious stuff and

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Speaker 2: then just leave it, leave it there under the assumption

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Speaker 2: no one's going to ever look into this.

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Speaker 1: So to the extent that this podcast is a public

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Speaker 1: service to criminals, which obviously that was the main, the

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Speaker 1: main reason we started.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to help.

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Speaker 1: I would like to pause here and say, people, change

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Speaker 1: the password on your laptop, because like, if it make

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Speaker 1: it really hard, the cops aren't going to get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you feel compelled to search, yes, how

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Speaker 1: to disappear or fake your death and get away with it,

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Speaker 1: erase it first of all, yes, Second of all, put

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Speaker 1: a nice good password on there really hard lots of

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Speaker 1: exclamation points and numbers.

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Speaker 2: And also also if you need to google how to

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Speaker 2: disappear and stay gone, maybe it's not for you. I

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Speaker 2: feel like that just needs to be some sort of

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Speaker 2: internal natural instinct that you understand probably how to get

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Speaker 2: away with it. But if you've got to google it,

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Speaker 2: it might not be for you.

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Speaker 1: Also, he had taken out a large life insurance policy

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Speaker 1: in the recent past, he had transferred funds to a

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Speaker 1: foreign bank account, and had gotten a new email address.

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Speaker 1: On top of that, he replaced his hard drive. Oh

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Speaker 1: and he did clear his search history, so okay, we

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Speaker 1: were a little early critical. However, he did not cover

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Speaker 1: his tracks enough to disguise the fact that he signed

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Speaker 1: up for a large life insurance policy and transferred funds

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Speaker 1: into a foreign bank account shortly before going kayaking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder what life Ryan is living right now.

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Speaker 1: And not to tell you in fact where I think

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Speaker 1: we because it Further digital evidence shows that Ryan was

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Speaker 1: planning to travel to Europe, and not well far eastern Europe,

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Speaker 1: because he apparently was on his way to meet up

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Speaker 1: with a woman in Who's Bekastan? Okay, now, first off,

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Speaker 1: do you know where's Isbekistan?

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Speaker 2: That is it's gonna be Uh, it's not in Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: I know that much. I know. Okay, it's I also

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Speaker 2: know it's not just right over the Canadian border. So

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Speaker 2: flight wise, this guy's gonna get a flight with his

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Speaker 2: passport and name, and that he thinks that he's not

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Speaker 2: going to get discovered.

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Speaker 1: Evidence suggests and I we don't know. I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: investigation is ongoing, but suggests that Ryan left his wife

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Speaker 1: and three children, faked his death in a kayak, crossed

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Speaker 1: the border into Canada to fly to Uzbekistan for a woman.

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Speaker 2: I cannot even get toothpaste past tsa this guy. Look,

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Speaker 2: you can't bring over five ounces, but you can pretend

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Speaker 2: to be someone else.

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Speaker 1: Does it start with one of those text messages you

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Speaker 1: get which is like, how are you doing, my sweetheart? Like?

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Speaker 1: How do Ryan end up falling for a woman in

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Speaker 1: his Bekistan? This is the most extreme version of ninety

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Speaker 1: day fiance I've ever heard of. I've ever seen them

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Speaker 1: play at this level before. As we are recording this,

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Speaker 1: the mystery is still a mystery. We don't know exactly

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Speaker 1: where Ryan is. Why we inspect he is in his

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Speaker 1: Bekkistan with a woman. A video was spotted on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I think just this week, right.

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Speaker 4: Lane, Yeah, the news of it just broke. It was

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Speaker 4: filmed back in June. I have it pulled up if

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Speaker 4: you want me.

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Speaker 3: To share it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see it.

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Speaker 1: So this video in this video on TikTok so June

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Speaker 1: was two months before he disappears. All right, let's watch it.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna watch the video.

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Speaker 2: Do I go to Isbkistan? Or stay here?

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Speaker 3: Do you have family there?

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Speaker 2: No? Why do you want to go meet a woman?

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Speaker 3: To meet a woman you don't like? American woman?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, another familiar m.

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Speaker 2: So you've given up on meeting someone here? No? I'm married?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you want to find someone else?

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Speaker 2: Not sure? Empty? What do you mean my kids are?

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Speaker 2: Can we positively? Who? Who here? Is more annoying? Her

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Speaker 2: questions or his answers? I can't like she can't even

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Speaker 2: grasp the fact that someone stopped to ask for free advice.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that he knew was ever start. Okay,

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Speaker 2: hold on, where are you going? Okay? Wait? What whoa?

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Speaker 1: So? Okay? Vihilated Ryan purchase a large life insurance policy

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Speaker 1: before faking his own death. He apparently somehow ran into

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Speaker 1: someone who asked him what he wanted to do, and

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Speaker 1: he said he wanted to move to his Pakistan to

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Speaker 1: be with a woman. He announced his plan.

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Speaker 2: I feel like he is saying everything just short of

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Speaker 2: I recently faked my own death. Like it just seems

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Speaker 2: like he's about to just blurt that out.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is this is two months before. This is

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Speaker 1: when he's clearly he's riding his bike thinking about am

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Speaker 1: I gonna do it or not?

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Speaker 2: I think, oh, that's when this came out. Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I thought he was so dumb that he's doing this after.

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Speaker 4: So we can't confirm that this is actually him. They

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Speaker 4: haven't confirmed that yet, but like, that looks pretty convince.

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Speaker 2: It's him. It's him, that is him, that is so him.

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Speaker 2: I gotta say, I didn't know the kids were out

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Speaker 2: of the house. That does make me feel a little

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Speaker 2: bit better. Yeah, I agree that they are at least

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Speaker 2: adults who are just they're they're doing their own thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, still an asshole no matter what.

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Speaker 2: But but here's the other thing. It's like, just divorce

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Speaker 2: your wife, I know, tell your kids. Hey, guys, you're

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Speaker 2: all adults. You know how these things go. Now, they're

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Speaker 2: all like, our dad faked his They have to live

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Speaker 2: with that. They're like, wow, what a crazy choice.

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Speaker 1: He could have just told the truth. He faked his

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Speaker 1: death and made us all sad in order to be

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Speaker 1: with a woman in Uzbekistan. Because well, there's so many

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Speaker 1: questions that we don't know the answer to we may

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Speaker 1: have to revisit this. I'm like, was this one of

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Speaker 1: those catfishing schemes? Was it even a woman? Did he

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Speaker 1: get to Azbekistan and he was like drafted into slavery

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Speaker 1: and he now works in like a call center.

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Speaker 2: Could you imagine he got to Uzbekistan and he was

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Speaker 2: catfished and he's like, you have no idea what I

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Speaker 2: went through to get here. And the first thing he

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Speaker 2: says was it was a twenty hour flight. That's his

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Speaker 2: first complaint in coach. I was in coach. You know

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Speaker 2: what they charged for first class? Twenty hours, no meals.

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Speaker 1: We definitely have to revisit this because I need yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: was there a woman Like he showed up and it

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Speaker 1: was like he was thrown in the back of a van,

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Speaker 1: and you know he's now an indentured servant.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, no, You're right. We are gonna need

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Speaker 2: closure of this. We're gonna have to know Ryan's fate.

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Speaker 1: I have some updates. Okay, where we last left off,

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Speaker 1: we speculated that maybe Ryan was catfished by someone who

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Speaker 1: kidnapped or killed him, but since we recorded, Ryan was found,

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Speaker 1: returned to Wisconsin and sentenced to serve eighty nine days

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Speaker 1: in prison, which was the same length of time authorities

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Speaker 1: spent searching for him, including the fifty eight days they

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Speaker 1: searched the lake.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess that's fair.

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Speaker 1: He's charged with obstruction and ordered by the Green Lake

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Speaker 1: County Circuit Court judge to pay thirty thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: restitution for costs spent by search and rescue crews. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's a good deal. Fifty eight days of

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Speaker 1: search and rescue seems like would cost more than thirty grand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but Wisconsin, I don't know. Maybe it's cheaper there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There is an excellent, in depth Atlantic magazine piece on

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Speaker 1: the saga to find Ryan. I highly recommend it for

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Speaker 1: your next airplane train. But here's the gist of what happened.

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Speaker 1: Ryan and his wife had been together for twenty plus years,

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Speaker 1: and for the most part, the relationship was okay, or

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Speaker 1: at least that's what Emily, his wife thought. Turns out

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Speaker 1: Ryan was unhappy and also tens of thousand dollars in debt,

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Speaker 1: something his wife did not know.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: But instead of coming clean and asking for a divorce,

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Speaker 1: he took the easy way out by elaborately faking his

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Speaker 1: own death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're describing it as the easy way out.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if that's exact.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is a lesson to you and

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Speaker 1: our listeners. Rory, you can always get divorced.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can just get divorced.

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Speaker 1: Here's what happened. He met a woman named Katya on

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Speaker 1: a dating app a few months before the kayak trip.

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Speaker 1: They started exchanging messages. I'm going to read a couple

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Speaker 1: of those to you good luck, I kiss you very hard.

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Speaker 1: Another one said I just want to be with you,

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Speaker 1: so you can see how he was wooed. Yeah, nothing

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Speaker 1: more romantic than I kiss you very hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean that gets me every time.

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Speaker 1: And then Ryan wrote back, Katya, I promised to you,

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Speaker 1: I will love you for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: I want no one else. I want to share life

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Speaker 1: with only you, A woman I met on the internet

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Speaker 1: and of never and she don't even know is real.

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Speaker 1: So Ryan wants to start a new life with Katia

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Speaker 1: oh Man. The details so much that he reversed his vasectomy,

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Speaker 1: and Emily not realizing her husband with a total scumbag,

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Speaker 1: drove him.

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Speaker 2: To the appointment. Yep, oh boy, man. I respect that

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Speaker 2: that's a hard reversal to get. He was clearly in

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Speaker 2: love with this maybe.

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Speaker 1: Person who had never actually seen in the vlush. So

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Speaker 1: he orders electric bike and two bike batteries for a

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00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: thousand bucks on Amazon, then deletes the account. The morning

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Speaker 1: of his disappearance, he stashes the bike and two go

438
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: bags and some grass among the trees. After church, he

439
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: kisses his wife and kids and heads to the lake

440
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: with his kayak. Once safely out on the water, he

441
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: throws his phone overboard and flated a second raft, one

442
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: of those child size inflatables you buy Walmart, you know,

443
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: sort of like Dinky. He flips his kayak over he

444
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: uses the kiddie raft to paddle ashore. Around one or

445
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: two am, he finally makes it to his stashed electric bike.

446
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: He pedals seventy miles to Madison, Wisconsin, and catches a

447
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: Greyhound to Toronto. At the Canadian border, agents are suspicious

448
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: because he has no driver's license and his phone isn't working,

449
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: but they led him through anyway. Canadians simply too nice

450
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: to stop the bad guys.

451
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 2: You let him go. Sorry, sorry we even suspected anything.

452
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I would think, how would they let you

453
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: across the border without a driver's license.

454
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: I this is crazy.

455
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: What did Ryan think was like? I feel like that

456
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: was one place where he probably almost certainly should.

457
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 2: Have been caught in. What did he should have been cut?

458
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: So, with a prepaid debit card in fifty five hundred cash,

459
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: he catches a flight to Paris. According to the Atlantic article,

460
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: the air France meal was one of the best meals

461
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: of his life.

462
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 2: All right, there you go.

463
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: He takes another flight.

464
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: Guy, he's this simple guy. He doesn't need his women

465
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 2: to be real and airline food is the best food

466
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: he's ever had.

467
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: He takes a flight from Paris to Georgia, the country,

468
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: and that's where he finally meets Katya. Yep, Katya is

469
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: how they offentually track him down. However, the cops send

470
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: an email to her with a subject line call us,

471
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: attached with a photo of Ryan, Katya, and his two children,

472
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: as well as a photo of the officers badges, saying

473
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: this is the police in Wisconsin, USA.

474
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

475
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: She's a little sussed about these emails, but eventually she

476
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: convinces Ryan to send a proof of life video back

477
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: to Wisconsin. The cops then begin an email exchange with

478
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: him and persuade him to come home and face the music.

479
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: And in part he does this because obstruction of justice

480
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: the charge is only a misdemeanor, and they can't arrest

481
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: him on the spot when he lands in Chicago. For

482
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: that reason, they are able to get him in an

483
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: interview room where he brags about how he fooled everyone.

484
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: He confesses to all of it. Then he's arrested and

485
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: put in a handcuffs. He spends a night in jail

486
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: and post bail. The same week he's arrested, Emily files

487
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: for legal separation, calling the marriage irretrievably broken, which feels

488
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: kind of like an understatement.

489
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

490
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: I don't even think she needed a reason. It's like,

491
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: we get it, man, It's okay.

492
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no explanation needed.

493
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: She also asks for soul custody the kids, which considering

494
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: he faked his death and left them anyway.

495
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: Also, they were adults, right, I think I remember they were? Yeah,

496
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 2: told her they weren't. They were teens. It's better than

497
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: them being like three and four. Yeah, But I.

498
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: Think also a reasonable ask. I feel like the judge

499
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: is not going.

500
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: To say, like sorry, he's a good dab Yeah, thank you.

501
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 2: Oh you mean the guy you tried to never see

502
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: them again on his own Okay.

503
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: And not just that, but like convinced them that their

504
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: father had died in a tragic kayaking accident. Yes, after

505
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: the church Yeah trauma. Oh so that's the mystery, which

506
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: we didn't know when we first recorded, is now solved.

507
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: Closing thoughts, I mean it all feels very on brand.

508
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: It all feels super on brand for old right, right right?

509
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: I think in closing people just get divorced.

510
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: Just get divorced.

511
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: I know it's hard, it's paining.

512
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: J jg D. It's one of our t shirts we

513
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: sell on crimeless dot com. JD.

514
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: Just get divorced, Just get divorced. After the break, one

515
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: more story of a man who faked his death and

516
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: almost got away with it. Slightly more successful. Fake death

517
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: on water is the story of the canoe Man. Have

518
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: you heard this one? It's kind of famous? No, no, no, okay,

519
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: So this one's back in the early two thousands. A

520
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: guy named John Darwin. He's a fifty one year old

521
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: British guy married to a lady named Anne. He's a

522
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: former prison officer and teacher. She's a receptionist. The two

523
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: of them owned some properties where they would rent out

524
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: rooms for like side hustle. The thing is, they gotten

525
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: a lot of debt because they didn't have a lot

526
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: of renters, so they bought too many properties they couldn't rent,

527
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: got and a lot of debt, and decided to fake

528
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: John's death.

529
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: Yep. So this is a tag team plot.

530
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: So Ann's in on it in this case.

531
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: I love that. I love a good team effort. Also

532
00:26:54,359 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: side note, I went as canoeman to Halloween's Ago.

533
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: So in March of two thousand and two, he gets

534
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: in his canoe and he goes out into the North Sea.

535
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: So all right, already we're in the ocean.

536
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: I like that. The third story you tell is going

537
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: to be actually a boat. You're gonna be like, look,

538
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 2: we have kayak canoe, but we're just backing it up.

539
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: We're just getting bigger and the body of water too.

540
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: So on the North Sea.

541
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know the difference between his sea and

542
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: an ocean, but I'm it's big.

543
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 2: The spelling for sure, the spelling definitely the spell.

544
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: So he goes out in a canoe and he doesn't

545
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: come home, and he's reported missing by Anne. Who claims

546
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: that he was caught in a strong tide and must

547
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: have disappeared. His canoe is found capsized and there's no

548
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: sign of John. But the day he went missing, the

549
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: North Sea was unusually calm, and I don't know if

550
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: you ever tried to capsize a canoe by yourself, Like,

551
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: I don't think he picked the right boat in this case.

552
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: He should have been in a kayak.

553
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also does it need to be capsized to

554
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: believe that something like has happened?

555
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: Isn't the other possibilities that you just fell out?

556
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: If there's an empty canoe and the person you thought

557
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: was using it is no longer using it, there's no

558
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: part of me that's gonna go well wait, hold on,

559
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: it's not capsized, they're probably fine.

560
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: So for five years, so basically, police search for him,

561
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: they don't find him, he's they declare him dead, and

562
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: for five years John is dead in the eyes of

563
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: the British government. But here's the twist. John is not dead.

564
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: Not only is John not dead, well, actually, let me

565
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: pause for a minute.

566
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: He's in Azbekistan.

567
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: Anything could be your answer. But do you have a

568
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: theory on what John did?

569
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: Well, here's here's what I'm here's what's leading me to

570
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: say my answer with the path I took to get

571
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: to this because Anne is in on it, they're not

572
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: trying to separate, so they're still trying to stay together.

573
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: My theory is that John has not gone anywhere.

574
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: Man, you're good at this.

575
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: John is still he's with thin proximity of Anne, and

576
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: their misstep was that they should have been like, all right, hey,

577
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: just remember for five years we gotta not talk.

578
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: Well, you're very good at this. So not only did

579
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: you pick the proper way of figure death right at

580
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: the top, you nailed it. So John doesn't go anywhere.

581
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: John moves back to his town, and not just to

582
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: his town, into one of those rental units that they

583
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: can't rent so for five years, he moves into one

584
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: of the rental properties under a new name, calling himself

585
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: Carl Fenwick, who is a lodger who just decided to

586
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: stick around and become a handyman.

587
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: It's like the start of a porn So it's it's

588
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: that or it's like, hey, let's pretend we're a new heart.

589
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: Very timely reference that is that's insane. He people the

590
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: town are like, nah, I mean you're you're John. What

591
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: do you mean? What are you saying? Carl? You're John?

592
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: No?

593
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm promise, I'm Carl. Just coffee. Who's John?

594
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: Why do you keep calling me John?

595
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: And he's living it up in town. They're all like, you're.

596
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: Not You're Well, here's what he did. He has a

597
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: lot of free time now because don't have a job anymore.

598
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: He's dead. He's living in a rental unit.

599
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: He spends his days playing the video game ever Quest. Okay,

600
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever.

601
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: Do you know what it is? I've never heard of that,

602
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: but man, that does sound like the most generic video

603
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: game title possible.

604
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: Also kind of the worst way to spend your life.

605
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean, if you faked your death, you fooled the

606
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: entire nation of England. Yeah, and you play video games

607
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: and a rental property that you wont.

608
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: You know? No one told John he could just do

609
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: that alive. He could do that. This makes Ryan's plan

610
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: look so much smarter. Ryan distanced himself. He went to

611
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: another country via another country. John's just like, I just

612
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: can't pay the bills.

613
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: So he spends his days playing EverQuest and walking around town.

614
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: And what you said, like, what are people saying to him.

615
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: In fact, there's at least one example of someone he

616
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: ran into one of his tenants, who was like, aren't

617
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: you supposed to be dead, to which he replies, don't

618
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: tell anyone. Smart tennant apparently doesn't tell anyone. I kind

619
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: of want to meet this guy, like what a weird

620
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: thing to experience and be like, Okay, sure, I won't

621
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: tell anybody. Your secrets safe with me.

622
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: Got a Carl, wink wink, Carl with a K by

623
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: the way.

624
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: Anyway, So back to there is a bit more of

625
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: a plan here. So he gets a new passport under

626
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: his new name. Okay, you had another no, a different

627
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: new name though his passport. His name his passport is

628
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: John Jones.

629
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So what we're learning is that it is

630
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: not hard to get a passport. I thought it was

631
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: so hard. You had to go to CVS. You had

632
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: to get a picture taken.

633
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: Okay, mister John Jones, I'm John John.

634
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: They're like, I'm sorry, you say John Jones. Yes, yes

635
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: I did.

636
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: Oh. But he uses his home address on the passport

637
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: with John Jones. So he and his wife start traveling.

638
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: They go to Cyprus to look at properties. Then they

639
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: go to Panama to look at properties and start actually

640
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: buying properties in Panama. Oh wow. And on one of

641
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: those trips, the real estate agent takes a picture of

642
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: this happy buyers and post it on the internet. Yeah,

643
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: this is this is the Chekhov's gun moment. You know

644
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: that might come back to haunt him.

645
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: Oh but this is uh so this is a time

646
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: when to be fair in their argument, and that, you know,

647
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: to in their defense, we don't live in today's world

648
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: where you would immediately go no, that'll go on the internet,

649
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: someone will see it. This is too that this is

650
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: the early two thousands where that culture is not. Hey,

651
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: if you just took a picture, you're probably gonna post

652
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: that and everyone will see it. You're still not thinking

653
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: like that, correct.

654
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: I would think not yeah, okays more innocent times.

655
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah. So in their defense, not that it's smart,

656
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: not that they've made any good decisions here, but just

657
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: to be clear, they took that photo thinking who's ever

658
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: going to see this?

659
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: Well, and not only that, apparently during the time that

660
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: they're gone Panama Titans whatever visa laws that had at

661
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: the time which enabled him to get in, and he

662
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: realizes if he's ever going to go back to England.

663
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: They're going to catch on. Okay, yeah, but anyway, so

664
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: he's basically screwed. He returns to the UK, walks straight

665
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: into a police station and claims that he's been suffering

666
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: from amnesia. Okay, I think I'm a missing person, he says. Okay,

667
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: not a terrible plan, right.

668
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: I mean it. I mean I don't know what your

669
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: options are, so this could be a good one.

670
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: Well, his wife supports the storage. She puts on a

671
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: great performance. She's so thrilled that her husband, he's been

672
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: missing for five years. Oh my god, he's back. But

673
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: the cops don't buy it. I guess she didn't do

674
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: a great job acting and already suspected that he may

675
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: not be dead because they looked at Ann's behave you're

676
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: over the time when she was supposed to be grieving,

677
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: she was taking vacations. She moved a bunch of money

678
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: around internationally, so another bank account, another another person who

679
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: suspicious financial behavior, Yeah, and was planning to sell the home.

680
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: They'd been working on a case for three months by

681
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: that point, and a tip from one of Anne's colleagues

682
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: was what sparked the investigation. Said that Anne had a

683
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: habit of talking to her dead husband on the phone

684
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: at work. So Anne gave it away by talking to

685
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: her dead husband every day.

686
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: I gotta say, I feel like I could pull off

687
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 2: faking my own death. I feel inspired.

688
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: By these stories, these two stories.

689
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: Inspired by these two stories, like maybe I could pull

690
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: this off and start living a new life. But then

691
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: I screw up. I'm still doing this podcast or you're

692
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: clearly alive. A few episodes are coming out. My name

693
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: is Carl No, no, I'm Corey with a K. So

694
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 2: both Anne and John are charged and convey to a fraud.

695
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: He does I think six years and three months. I

696
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: don't know how much time hand does. And oh she

697
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: also got six years. Wait, she got six years and

698
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: six months.

699
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: Oh. And the sad kicker to this, I mean, can

700
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: you predict, like there's there's one sad final beat in

701
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: this story.

702
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: I am gonna guess one of them passed away in prison.

703
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: Not quite that sad? Okay, got they got divorced? Oh,

704
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: they got divorce. Could you imagine all that? Just having

705
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: to cover your tracks every time you go to the

706
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 2: grocery store. Oh no, I actually, uh I need two sandwich?

707
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: Is John I mean Carl.

708
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean I'm a widow, so two cases of unsuccessful.

709
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: Although you know John got away with her for five years,

710
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: so we should be getting John a little credit.

711
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: I gotta say, I give John credit. I also feel

712
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 2: like if you can fake your own death and still

713
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 2: live in the same town and all you do was

714
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: change your name, you are either an incredible actor or

715
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: you live in the dumbest town. And that's why the

716
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: cops believe the amnesia thing. They're like, everyone in town,

717
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: this is amnesia. That's the name of the town.

718
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: I could swear I saw John at the store. Now

719
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: that's Carl.

720
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly Carl. That's obviously Carl.

721
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: Next up, Rory and I capsize a canoe or we

722
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: play a game or something. This is Kryless Lane. What's

723
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: on the agenda for our last segment.

724
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: Layne's game?

725
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 4: All right, So the true masters of faking their deaths

726
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 4: are possums. So that's what the say is quiz is about.

727
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 4: Did you know the opossum is the largest order of

728
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 4: our soupials in the western hemisphere.

729
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 2: I did not know that, about one.

730
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: Hundred and twenty six species.

731
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: But we only have the Virginia possum opossum here in

732
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 4: the US slash Canada.

733
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: Wait, is it possum or opossum?

734
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: It's possum. Okay o possum, which is insane?

735
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: Is insane.

736
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 4: I'll be saying possum just for the record. So today's game,

737
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 4: I'm calling opossum o alien because I'm going to give

738
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 4: you a species of creature and you should tell me

739
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 4: if it's a possum or an alien species. Do you

740
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 4: guys feel confident about this?

741
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: I don't know a no, not at all.

742
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 4: Okay, it's kind of a kind of a rapid fire one.

743
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: All right.

744
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 4: How about a gray slender possum, opossumo. Oh possum, Oh possum, awesome,

745
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: tall white, my favorite coffee.

746
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: Alien? We alien, possum, it's alien.

747
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: How about a grabby?

748
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 2: Oh god, oh possum, Oh possum alien.

749
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: Alien? What do we talk? What is the what is

750
00:37:59,239 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: the source of.

751
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: The types research that? I've a great question. I didn't

752
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: even I went along with it, as though we've discovered

753
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: numerous types of aliens.

754
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 4: It's a couple of Wikipedia articles, some red in posts.

755
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 4: But a grabby is a class of aliens that expand

756
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: rapidly and inhibit other civilizations development.

757
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 2: Okay, thank god, I was afraid you weren't applying science

758
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: to this research. But as soon as you said reddit

759
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: and Wikipedia, I would just like to.

760
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 1: Point out we would have gotten all the way through

761
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: the game without Rory wondering what.

762
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 2: Honestly, probably not until like later this afternoon. And wait,

763
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: how did we even know? What are those aliens? What's

764
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: the reference point for any of that?

765
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, sorry to interrupt. I felt like I need clarified.

766
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 3: Gray four eyed.

767
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: Gotta be an alien.

768
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: They can't be an a possum. It's got to be

769
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: an alien.

770
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 3: It's awesome.

771
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: I can't be possoms wear glasses.

772
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 3: They have they have little spots up here that look

773
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: like eyes. Eyes.

774
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 2: I just like that they're bullied the same way we are,

775
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: exact clearly nerd.

776
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 4: How about a yeah bok alien alien powesume sorrys fuck.

777
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 3: How about a big lutrine possesume alien. It's a possom.

778
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 3: How about a new knaki.

779
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: That's from Avatar.

780
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: That's an alien. That's that's not it's not from Avatar,

781
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: but it's from research.

782
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 2: It's from research.

783
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 3: How about a flying rod?

784
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: You know a possum? I feel like it's a is

785
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: a trick one.

786
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: It's like it's like the nickname for one specific possum.

787
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: Flying an alien. It is an alien. It wasn't a

788
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: trick at all.

789
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 4: It's a mysterious form of life, often captured on film

790
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 4: but not seen to the naked eye.

791
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: And then finally a wood sprite grass seel.

792
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: That's gonna be an apossum.

793
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: It's got to be a possum.

794
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 3: It's a possum.

795
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: Yes, it sounds like a very cute one.

796
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 3: Is he's very cute.

797
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: A lot of these are really what sprite that's just

798
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: a name. Sprite gets in there. It makes you thirsty

799
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: and it makes you want to cuddle.

800
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: In a future episode, we need to explore why it's, oh, possum,

801
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: but we all say possum.

802
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,240
Speaker 4: Why do we just ignore the oh, I don't know,

803
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 4: I that's in my research.

804
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: They should drop it, they really should drop it. That

805
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: becomes our platform.

806
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are always felt that just get divorced and

807
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: drop the O JD, drop the O down under it.

808
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: It's just possume.

809
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: So you just they get it.

810
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys got your so much.

811
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: They get it. They've got other things to do. They

812
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: can't be adding letters that aren't even pronounced.

813
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: I don't know.

814
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 4: Why the first the first, like Google scrape does, don't

815
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 4: explain why there's an O one there.

816
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: I love that Google scrape.

817
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: This is a mystery for a episode of crime Less.

818
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: All right, all right, we don't.

819
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: We don't just randomly put O in front Google.

820
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 2: Google scrape is the other T shirt.

821
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: Oh boy, it's the end of the Opossum game.

822
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 3: Oh boy, alien, opossum alien.

823
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: See you all next week. Unless I fake my death

824
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: and fly off to Georgia.

825
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 2: Well that's what we're gonna do. That's our immediate first assumption.

826
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: Even with the body, we assume it's not you. Bye

827
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: Bye bye.

828
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: Crimeless is a production of SmartLess Media, Campside Media, and

829
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: Big Money Players in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. It's hosted

830
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 1: by Rory Scovel and me Josh Dean. Our senior producer

831
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: is Lane Rose. Emma Simonov is our associate producer. This

832
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: episode was written by Laine Rose and me Josh Deen.

833
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: We're sound designed and engineered by Blake Brook with support

834
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: from Ewan Letram Ewen. Mark McAdam composed our theme song.

835
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 1: The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriatis, Matt

836
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Cher and me Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart

837
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: Podcasts and Big Money Players are Jack O'Brien, Lindsay Hoffins,

838
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: and Matt Appadaka. For SmartLess Media, the executive producers are

839
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: Will Arnette, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Richard Corson. Bernie

840
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: Kaminski is head of production. The associate producer is Mattie McCann.

841
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and

842
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: Sabina Marra. Do you have a question, comment, or confession

843
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: for the Crimeless team, Email us at crime Less at

844
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 1: campsidmedia dot com and if you enjoyed crime List, please

845
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts.

846
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: It helps people find the show and also makes us

847
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: feel validated, unless you're meeting, in which case keep it

848
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: to yourself.

849
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week. Crime Listenation