Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to it could happen here. I
Speaker 2: am once again you're a guest host, Molly Conger, and
Speaker 2: joining me today is our friend Garrison.
Speaker 3: Hello. Excited to get the Robert Rundo run down.
Speaker 2: So you already know what we are talking about today.
Speaker 2: It is a guy that you probably already know more
Speaker 2: about than you ever wanted to. It is Rob Rundo,
Speaker 2: the founder of the Nazi fight club the Rise Above movement.
Speaker 2: You and Robert did a great two part Behind the
Speaker 2: Bastards on RAM back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3: Which is shockingly three years ago, which does not sound right,
Speaker 3: but I guess is the case.
Speaker 2: It's been a long three years for you, but an
Speaker 2: even stranger one for Rob.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been really a country hopic a lot the
Speaker 3: past few years.
Speaker 2: Huh, he's been busy. So when you recorded that episode
Speaker 2: back in January of twenty twenty one, Rundo's federal charges
Speaker 2: had been dismissed by Judge corn mat Karney in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overturned that decision in
Speaker 2: March twenty twenty one, right around the time the episode
Speaker 2: came out. I think at the end of the second
Speaker 2: episode you had a PostScript, like an adendum you recorded afterwards,
Speaker 2: because before it came out, the Ninth Circuit ruling had
Speaker 2: been issued. Okay, okay, But in an almost comical turn
Speaker 2: of events, Judge Carney has once again dismissed those charges
Speaker 2: two weeks ago.
Speaker 3: Now, so three years later, a few countries later, hopping
Speaker 3: from from Serbia to the United States to probably other
Speaker 3: places around Europe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're sort of back in the same position
Speaker 2: you were in when you talked about him three years ago.
Speaker 3: Times that's circle.
Speaker 2: But before we get into one of the sort of
Speaker 2: strangest legal slap fights I've ever read, let's back up
Speaker 2: for a second. Who is Rob Rundo and what was
Speaker 2: he charged with? Yeah, So, if you want a more
Speaker 2: robust look at the early days of the Rise Above movement,
Speaker 2: recommend going back and listening to that Behind the Bastards
Speaker 2: two parter on the Rise Above Movement. It originally aired
Speaker 2: in March twenty twenty one, So like, really scroll back
Speaker 2: in your podcast app but we'll do a quick recap
Speaker 2: here because it's not I can't assign the listener homework.
Speaker 2: So so the Rise Above movement first emerged in early
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, after a brief period of being called the
Speaker 2: DIY Division both stupid dames. I don't know which one's better,
Speaker 2: but RAM, We're just gonna call them RAM. In twenty
Speaker 2: seventeen was a big year for political violence. It was
Speaker 2: it was really hot that year. The group was, on
Speaker 2: its surface, a mixed martial arts club for white men.
Speaker 2: They trained together and bonded over their shared and abhorrent
Speaker 2: political views. In their own words, they are fighting against
Speaker 2: the modern world corrupted by the destructive cultural influences of liberals, Jews, Muslims,
Speaker 2: and immigrants, you know, and gay people and gay people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just pretty much pretty much everybody except you know
Speaker 2: themselves down.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Essentially, if you were not a member of the Nazi
Speaker 2: Fight Club, you are a victim of the Nazi fight club.
Speaker 3: That's the first rule of Nazi fight sure.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: The first rule of Nazi fight Club was not don't
Speaker 2: talk about Nazi fight club.
Speaker 3: And I think that's because they shut it. They cannot
Speaker 3: stop talking.
Speaker 2: Like if they had just followed the first rule of
Speaker 2: fight club, they might not be in this position. But
Speaker 2: RAM quickly became a staple at rallies in southern California
Speaker 2: that year. In the spring and summer of twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: they kept showing up and kept throwing punches. In March,
Speaker 2: members assaulted journalists and counter protesters at a MAGA rally
Speaker 2: in Huntington Beach. In April, they assaulted numerous counter protesters
Speaker 2: at a rally in Berkeley. In August, RAM members attended
Speaker 2: Unite the Right in Charlottesville and assaulted counter protesters in
Speaker 2: the streets. Again. And you know, they're not just going
Speaker 2: to these events and getting in fights, right, They're not
Speaker 2: just like showing up and just like it just happens.
Speaker 2: They're going to these events planning on committing these assaults
Speaker 2: and then bragging about the assaults publicly and privately. They're
Speaker 2: using these acts of violence as propaganda and recruitment tools,
Speaker 2: right like they're making little videos they're posting about it.
Speaker 2: It's not just about committing the assault. So the violence
Speaker 2: is not just about physically hurting people. It's part of
Speaker 2: a larger strategy to incite others to join them in
Speaker 2: this project. And that's I mean, you already know this.
Speaker 2: You covered that in your episode three years ago. This
Speaker 2: is for everybody else.
Speaker 3: And there, and they're still going. Unfortunately, these these they're
Speaker 3: now often called active clubs, are more popular than what
Speaker 3: they were three years ago. They've they've become a very
Speaker 3: a very big staple of white supremacist organizing across the
Speaker 3: United States and Canada, mirroring a lot of organizational styles
Speaker 3: in Eastern Europe. There's probably one in your area that
Speaker 3: you might not know about. They are active on telegram,
Speaker 3: they're actively recruiting. They recruit from high schools. Is a
Speaker 3: big increasing problem. As Patriot Front becomes more and more
Speaker 3: like fed jacketed between their owned Nazi ranks, we have
Speaker 3: see more people plugging into these these active clubs.
Speaker 2: Right RAM did not go away. It's just sort of morphed.
Speaker 2: And so back in twenty seventeen, you know, they said
Speaker 2: they had a lot of members. They probably had like
Speaker 2: twenty But now these active clubs just they do genuinely
Speaker 2: have chapters all over the country. Yeah, but back in
Speaker 2: the past, right so, after Unite the Right RAM members
Speaker 2: decided to lay off the rallies a little bit, you know,
Speaker 2: being seen on camera beating a woman into the pavement
Speaker 2: at a rally that ended in a hate crime murder
Speaker 2: invited some bad press, and they weren't looking to get
Speaker 2: door knocks at that particular moment, so they backed off
Speaker 2: a little bit at the end of twenty seventeen, but
Speaker 2: they'd spent most of that year attending rallies and getting
Speaker 2: into physical altercations. It wasn't until over a year after
Speaker 2: Unite the Right in October of twenty eighteen, that there
Speaker 2: was any attempt to do anything about this very obvious problem.
Speaker 2: You know, the criminal complaint itself even says that some
Speaker 2: of these assaults were committed in plain view of cops
Speaker 2: who just stood there and did nothing while these guys
Speaker 2: beat the shit out of people in the streets. You know,
Speaker 2: they're in each other's dms, bragging about kicking a woman
Speaker 2: in the head while she's lying on the ground, but
Speaker 2: nobody lifted a finger to stop them. But in October
Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, two cases were filed. One in the
Speaker 2: Western District of Virginia, charges were filed against Ben Dalley,
Speaker 2: Cole White, Thomas Gillen, and Michael Miscelis, And a few
Speaker 2: weeks later, in the Central District of California, charges were
Speaker 2: filed against Rob Rundo, Robert Bowman, Tyler Loub and Aaron Eeson,
Speaker 2: So all eight of them, four in each district. All
Speaker 2: eight of them were charged under the Federal Riot Act
Speaker 2: and conspiracy to riot. I think it was Robert who
Speaker 2: said in the original RAM episode, you know, like if
Speaker 2: at any point early on, like if at any point
Speaker 2: in those first few months of this happening, there had
Speaker 2: been any kind of intervention, if anyone had been arrested
Speaker 2: in the act, maybe this could have been nipped in
Speaker 2: the butt and a lot of what happens later wouldn't
Speaker 2: have happened.
Speaker 3: Or even if they were like beaten up, like if
Speaker 3: like if a group of like Eddie Fastists like beat
Speaker 3: them up, that would disidentifize them from going to future
Speaker 3: events to try to beat other people. Right, Like, violence
Speaker 3: is actually very good at doing this specific thing. And
Speaker 3: if you feel like you're going to go somewhere to
Speaker 3: get beat up, you probably don't want to go there.
Speaker 3: And even like divorce from the actions of the state
Speaker 3: like that is that is a demotivating factor which has
Speaker 3: been effective against Proud Boys in Portland. Now, obviously some
Speaker 3: of these guys, especially the RAM crew, go there with
Speaker 3: the express interest of getting into fights so that's something
Speaker 3: you should definitely consider. But yeah, like if as long
Speaker 3: as they have a bad time, it makes them not
Speaker 3: want to come to these things. But when they're able
Speaker 3: to just beat up anyone they want to without any pushback,
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, it becomes like a fun thing. It
Speaker 3: becomes like a large amount of incentive is gained for
Speaker 3: going to a rally, whether that's in Huntington Beach or
Speaker 3: halfway across the country.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, they were having a great time and there
Speaker 2: was no there was no movement to stop this, and
Speaker 2: it's hard to know why it took over a year
Speaker 2: for any charges to get brought. I think you speculated
Speaker 2: in that ram episode a few years ago that it
Speaker 2: was public pressure after that end up reporting came out
Speaker 2: of mainstream press. But going back over the timeline and
Speaker 2: that pro public apiece came out in October twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: that was just two months after Unite the Right and
Speaker 2: a whole year before those charges were filed, it's not
Speaker 2: really possible to know why they waited so long unless
Speaker 2: some you know, young US attorney wants to level with
Speaker 2: us about it.
Speaker 3: But I don't foresee that, but probably not.
Speaker 2: Just you know, what's going on behind the scenes. But
Speaker 2: I do have one sort of interesting little anecdote. A
Speaker 2: couple months ago, I was at an event here in Charlesville.
Speaker 2: It was a panel discussion, and one of the speakers
Speaker 2: was the US Attorney for the Western District of Virginia,
Speaker 2: Chris Cavanaugh. He was speaking to a group of people
Speaker 2: about the work that he does, and he's talking about
Speaker 2: the work that he did on some of these sort
Speaker 2: of extremism cases after Unite the Right. Back in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: he was the assistant US attorney here. He's been promoted
Speaker 2: since then, but he worked on the James Fields case,
Speaker 2: and he worked on the RAM case that was filed
Speaker 2: here in Virginia, and he said something really interesting that
Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about before. So right after Unite the
Speaker 2: Right in August twenty seventeen, a bunch of FBI agents
Speaker 2: were assigned to, you know, check out what how here
Speaker 2: at this mass casualty event. Right, they had the resources
Speaker 2: to investigate and try to develop cases. You know, I
Speaker 2: love my documents. I spent a lot of time in
Speaker 2: the documents, so I've actually seen you know, they got
Speaker 2: some federal search warrants. It was actually an FBI agent
Speaker 2: who dug the round that Richard Preston fired at Corey
Speaker 2: Long out of the mulch In Market Street Park. You know,
Speaker 2: they got search warrants for social media for a couple
Speaker 2: of guys who ended up prosecuted locally, Alex Ramos, Richard Preston,
Speaker 2: and New Borton. So it looks like they were trying
Speaker 2: to develop hate crime cases, right, Like that federal warrant
Speaker 2: they got for Richard Preston's Twitter account said that they
Speaker 2: were developing a hate crime case and they never did so,
Speaker 2: Like right after Unite the Right, they're getting these warrants,
Speaker 2: they're developing these cases. But back to that event that
Speaker 2: I was at with Chris Kavanaugh, the US Attorney, He said,
Speaker 2: when the Las Vegas shooting happened in October of twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: they lost their task force. They had this huge volume
Speaker 2: of agents working trying to develop Unite the Right cases.
Speaker 2: When that shooting happened two months later, they all got reassigned.
Speaker 2: He was left like a skeleton crew, and they just
Speaker 2: didn't have the resources to develop these cases. Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know how the FBI is managing their resources internally
Speaker 2: so badly. That they can only handle one mass casualty
Speaker 2: event at a time, or why the Washington Field office
Speaker 2: was so heavily impacted by a shooting in Nevada. But
Speaker 2: that is what he said, So take that as you will.
Speaker 2: And I think that theory is at least in part
Speaker 2: supported by the fact that the federal charges against James
Speaker 2: Fields didn't get brought until June of twenty eighteen. Right
Speaker 2: he'd been charged locally for the car attack that killed
Speaker 2: how they higher, but the federal charges didn't pop up
Speaker 2: until June of twenty eighteen, So I don't know if
Speaker 2: maybe something shifted in terms of resources in their office
Speaker 2: that summer, I don't know. It's interesting to think about.
Speaker 2: But then so in you know, back to October of
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, right when these two different RAM cases get filed.
Speaker 2: Virginia's case was actually filed first. It was filed a
Speaker 2: few weeks before the case in California, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I assumed they were in communication about that, but I
Speaker 2: don't have any special insight into what their federal prosecute
Speaker 2: was doing. But it's also possible that it just takes
Speaker 2: the government a whole ass year to do anything. No
Speaker 2: matter what right. In a recent filing in the Rundo case,
Speaker 2: the government's talking about how this investigation was developed, and
Speaker 2: it says, you're gonna shit a break Garrison. It says
Speaker 2: that the FBI investigation into RAM only started when a
Speaker 2: bartender in La called the FBI a few weeks after
Speaker 2: Unite the Right because he overheard a patron Ben Day
Speaker 2: quote gleefully bragging about having caused havoc during the riots. Amazing,
Speaker 2: and he also quote bragged about hitting a guy and
Speaker 2: punching a girl in the face during protests in Berkeley.
Speaker 2: So that first comment was about Charlesville. He had just
Speaker 2: come home from Charlesville. He was talking about how he
Speaker 2: caused havoc. He's bragging about punching people in Berkeley, and
Speaker 2: the bartender's like, hmm, that's kind of that's suspicious, suspicious.
Speaker 2: This unnamed complainant also told the FBI that Daily and
Speaker 2: other RAM members had come to the bar often and
Speaker 2: sometimes used it for recruitment. They were recruiting the patrons
Speaker 2: at this bar, and based on what he overheard, he
Speaker 2: told the FBI that the group quote did not care
Speaker 2: about the issues regarding the statues in Charlottesville. But rather
Speaker 2: a quote enjoyed going to protests just to raise havoc,
Speaker 2: cause trouble and fight. So it wasn't until a bartender
Speaker 2: called the FBI to be like, Hey, this guy's talking
Speaker 2: about like doing a lot of gang violence. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you guys know about this. And according to
Speaker 2: that same court filing, the FBI took until January of
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, so a few weeks after Unite the Right
Speaker 2: and maybe we're looking at September. It took them three
Speaker 2: or four more months until January of twenty eighteen to
Speaker 2: discover in the course of their investigation that RAM was
Speaker 2: based in southern California.
Speaker 3: Great work, great work, everybody, fantastic stuff.
Speaker 2: They're on it now, Garrison. And so at this point,
Speaker 2: the LA Field Office opens an investigation into members in
Speaker 2: the area. Now I kind of hope this isn't true, right,
Speaker 2: Like I hope that this is not a correct summary
Speaker 2: of the of these events, because if it really took
Speaker 2: someone calling the FBI to say, like, hey, I heard
Speaker 2: a guy bragging about doing crime in sem.
Speaker 3: That definitely happed. No, that is definitely how this went down.
Speaker 3: Absolutely that makes so much sense.
Speaker 2: But then it took three months of investigating to figure
Speaker 2: out that the guys who recruit for their Nazi gang
Speaker 2: at a bar in LA probably live in La.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that is This is kind of
Speaker 3: how the FBI investigates white supremasist groups.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 3: They have they're too busy investigating teenagers in black hoodies.
Speaker 3: They can't they can't bother to spare the manpower for this.
Speaker 3: There's Antifa out there.
Speaker 2: By the time they got this tip from the bartender,
Speaker 2: that Pro Publica article was already out. Why did it
Speaker 2: take them three months to find out that the guys
Speaker 2: whose names were already in the newspaper lived in California.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't trust anyone who lives in Virginia.
Speaker 2: So it took them a few months, Right, it took
Speaker 2: some time. I hope that's not true, but it is
Speaker 2: what the government has put on the record as the truth.
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's how this case starts. Right, So, these
Speaker 2: eight members of RAM are charged for in Virginia for
Speaker 2: in California with rioting and conspiracy to riot. Just for
Speaker 2: efficiency's sake, I'll just say that the cases in Virginia
Speaker 2: are fully resolved. Daily Miss Eliskillen, and White all pleaded guilty.
Speaker 2: There were some later unsuccessful appeals where when they after
Speaker 2: they saw what happened in the California cases, they were like, ooh,
Speaker 2: actually us too, can we But that didn't work and
Speaker 2: their convictions stood. And that's all over.
Speaker 3: Where is daily now? Is he out again? There he's out.
Speaker 3: The he's out? Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: White didn't get any additional time after his plea because
Speaker 2: he was so cooperative, and the other three all got
Speaker 2: less than three years.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, so they're out.
Speaker 2: But these California cases where Roundo is charged, they have
Speaker 2: been a mess from day one, so the charge October
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. In twenty nineteen, Judge Corn Matt Carney dismissed
Speaker 2: the charges in California, saying that the Riot Act was
Speaker 2: unconstitutionally overbroad and its application violated the defendant's First Amendment rights.
Speaker 3: So true, First Amendment defender here, that's right, travel across
Speaker 3: state lines to riot endorsed by this judge.
Speaker 2: That's free speech. Garrison like love it or leave it,
Speaker 2: go back to Canada. So the prosecutor appealed that ruling
Speaker 2: because it was hawk garbage. And the ninth Circuit agreed
Speaker 2: it takes a long time for things to get appealed.
Speaker 2: It's like slower than watching grass grow. So the Ninth
Speaker 2: Circuit reversed that ruling in March of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: reinstating the indictments. Things move really so, so you know, it
Speaker 2: took two years for them to reverse it and then
Speaker 2: another year to enter the order. So it wasn't until
Speaker 2: February of twenty twenty two that the case was formally reopened.
Speaker 3: In which case, around this time, Rondo's trying to like
Speaker 3: hide in Eastern Europe and eventually get sent back to
Speaker 3: the United States. Curiously, around the same time that Andrew Tate.
Speaker 3: Does God imagine an Andrew tape Rob Rundo fight. Oh okay,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't pay money because I don't want to support them,
Speaker 3: but I would love to watch that.
Speaker 2: Actually send them both back to Romania and let them fight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2: So, by the time that the California ram defendants are
Speaker 2: re indicted on the original charges, it's January of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, and only three of them get re indicted
Speaker 2: because Aaron Eeson has died.
Speaker 3: So sad.
Speaker 2: It doesn't say much.
Speaker 3: More than that a tragic loss of life.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't want to I guess I
Speaker 2: don't want to speculate because it doesn't say on the record,
Speaker 2: and I was unable to determine. I can't find anything
Speaker 2: other than the court record dismissing his charges because he
Speaker 2: was dead. I can't find any record of his death.
Speaker 2: It must have just been, you know, private. But you know,
Speaker 2: you were talking about that RAM episode a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago about how you know they're all about clean
Speaker 2: living and fighting.
Speaker 3: They're all straight edge, except for all of the ones
Speaker 3: who do trucks.
Speaker 2: A lot of them have really serious drug problems. And
Speaker 2: I don't know for a fact what was going on
Speaker 2: with Aaron Eesan, but I know Robert Bowman had some
Speaker 2: trouble staying out on bond due to a very severe
Speaker 2: meth addiction. Yes, yes, so I don't know what happened
Speaker 2: to Aaron Easton, but very very pure.
Speaker 3: You gotta keep the blood line pure.
Speaker 2: So the reindicted January twenty twenty three, And as you
Speaker 2: guys talked about back in twenty twenty one, Rondo had
Speaker 2: been living in Serbia for most of this time. He
Speaker 2: is overseas making friends doing fight club, doing Nazi stuff.
Speaker 3: Hang out, making bad T shirts, doing bad graffiti, mostly
Speaker 3: opening up T shirt factories. It's really what he spent
Speaker 3: a lot of time.
Speaker 2: SERI really about the merch. You have to merchandise.
Speaker 3: That's the Hey, if you took away one thing from
Speaker 3: Revolt against the Modern World, it's that Ovola loved merch.
Speaker 3: That's the biggest through line in that works. You got
Speaker 3: to sell those stickers, man.
Speaker 2: You have to. It's a sort of a pointy shaped operation. Right,
Speaker 2: the guys will the bottom have to keep selling the
Speaker 2: stickers to the guys, and he has to make new bottoms. Right,
Speaker 2: There's there's no bottom. It is a pyramid scheme. Patriot
Speaker 2: Runt is a pyramid scheme.
Speaker 3: Well, and Patriot Front and Rondo had the same sticker
Speaker 3: manufacturer for quite a while. Their websites, well, their merch
Speaker 3: websites were identical.
Speaker 2: Look, I mean, how many webmasters can these Nazi groups have.
Speaker 2: It's got to be one guy. Yeah, they do not
Speaker 2: have a graphic designer. So anyway, so he's in Serbia
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, Serbia made a big show of
Speaker 2: saying like, oh, like he's not welcome here, He's deported
Speaker 2: to Bosnia. He was still in Serbia. I think Bell
Speaker 2: and Kat has some great articles tracking exactly where in
Speaker 2: Belgrade Rondo was hanging out. But Serbia was like, no,
Speaker 2: he's not here, we can't he's not welcome here. He's
Speaker 2: in Bosnia and Boni he was like, he's not fucking here.
Speaker 2: He was in Serbia.
Speaker 3: He kept trying to lie to He tried to like
Speaker 3: like make people think he was somewhere else, but he
Speaker 3: just couldn't stop posting. And if you ever post anything
Speaker 3: outside or really even inside you you can be found.
Speaker 3: So like, he couldn't stop posting in every single time
Speaker 3: he'd be like, haha, the CIA assets a belly cat
Speaker 3: think I'm here when in fact I'm actually over there,
Speaker 3: and you're like, no, you're actually right here. It's really
Speaker 3: easy to find out where you are. You posted yourself
Speaker 3: standing next to this tree. There's only one type of
Speaker 3: this tree in this area. It's obvious you're right here,
Speaker 3: and it's.
Speaker 2: Like you can post all you like. If you have
Speaker 2: terminal posting disease, you can keep posting, which is like,
Speaker 2: don't post photographs of yourself in a place.
Speaker 3: He can't, he can't stop. He can't stop, won't stop.
Speaker 3: My favorite old Rundo laur is that he had this
Speaker 3: YouTube series called Tea Time with Robert Rundo that I
Speaker 3: still think about about once a week where he would
Speaker 3: give his Nazi followers advice on how to flee the
Speaker 3: country if they have a felony while sitting at like
Speaker 3: a European cafe, filming on his iPhone. It's the most
Speaker 3: it's the funniest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: In the same world. Evidence like that would make a
Speaker 2: judge say, I don't think we should let you back
Speaker 2: out if you.
Speaker 3: Let it tail, considering you made instructions.
Speaker 2: So finally, in March of twenty twenty three, he's freshly reindicted.
Speaker 2: In January twenty twenty three. March of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: the Romanian police are like, we fucking found him, got
Speaker 2: he's here in Romania. So he's arrested in Romania and
Speaker 2: it takes a few months to sort out all the
Speaker 2: paperwork and get him extradited back to the US in
Speaker 2: August of twenty twenty three. You know what won't get
Speaker 2: you indicted on federal felony charges that result in you
Speaker 2: being extradited from a Romanian prison.
Speaker 3: Listening to these ads as long as we declare them
Speaker 3: as my FTC training today taught me how to do. So. Yes,
Speaker 3: these are all paid advertisements. We're not allowed to call
Speaker 3: them promoted content. We have to call them ads. These
Speaker 3: are advertised I believe that was part of my training today.
Speaker 3: So to make sure I don't go to prison enjoy
Speaker 3: these paid advertisements.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope you enjoyed those paid advertisement.
Speaker 3: Paid ads. This is weird. We're only airing them because
Speaker 3: they're paying us money. These are not our sincere belief. Way.
Speaker 3: We can't say that either. There's really no way to win.
Speaker 3: There's no way to win here anyway.
Speaker 2: I'm going to the war against the FTC.
Speaker 3: So so true.
Speaker 2: So that more or less gets us up to the
Speaker 2: current controversy. So we get Rundo back August twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: and then February twenty twenty four, about ten days ago,
Speaker 2: Judge Carney dismisses the case again. So back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: Carney said, no, there's no crime here. This is just
Speaker 2: protective for some m activities. You can't use the Riot Act.
Speaker 2: That's unconstitutional, right, And he dismisses the case and the
Speaker 2: Ninth Circuit says, no, no, I don't think so that's
Speaker 2: not how we're reading this. You got to take the
Speaker 2: case back. So it gets remanded back to the same judge.
Speaker 2: It goes back to Judge Karney, but of course Rendo's
Speaker 2: missing now. It takes a while to get him back.
Speaker 2: And so he finally gets his defendant back from his
Speaker 2: Nazi layer in Eastern Europe, he has to come up
Speaker 2: with a new reason why a Nazi street fighting gang
Speaker 2: shouldn't be charged with a crime. Okay, So, like it's obvious,
Speaker 2: he just doesn't want to fucking try this case. So
Speaker 2: he has to come up with a new reason. And honestly,
Speaker 2: I think no shade to the federal public defender, right,
Speaker 2: Rendo has a public defender. It is their job to
Speaker 2: throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. They're
Speaker 2: providing zealous defense to their clients. So they write up
Speaker 2: what I would say, in my personal opinion, was an
Speaker 2: absolute dogshit motion, and I think maybe they knew that too.
Speaker 2: I don't know, they're just doing their jobs. I think
Speaker 2: Judge Karney would have agreed with whatever they put on paper.
Speaker 2: He gets this motion and he's like, yes, for sure,
Speaker 2: dismissed again. So true, and this time it's selective prosecution.
Speaker 2: That if the government wants to charge Ram with riding,
Speaker 2: they would have had to charge Antifa too, because otherwise
Speaker 2: it's not fair. What should they do all the fucking time?
Speaker 2: It's just not fair.
Speaker 3: I mean this case does actually like showcase like selective prosecution,
Speaker 3: the fact that you are super willing to drop charges
Speaker 3: against a white sutrematist but will send like quote unquote
Speaker 3: Antifa gay gay teenagers to prison for going to going
Speaker 3: to a BLM protest. Like, yeah, that actually does showactly
Speaker 3: exactly how these cases are very selectively prosecuted.
Speaker 2: Right, Like these guys are playing on easy mode and
Speaker 2: as soon as they draw the wrong card, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: this deck is stacked, this deck is stacked, right, and
Speaker 2: so not. I'm like, we talked about this before a Garrison.
Speaker 2: I'm not a lawyer, we know this, but I am
Speaker 2: an enthusiastic consumer of the law, and I did read
Speaker 2: a bunch of law review articles today. Okay, selective prosecution
Speaker 2: sounds like the kind of thing that could work, right, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's not constitutional to selectively prosecute based on maybe a
Speaker 2: protected characteristic right like if you're only prosecuting black people
Speaker 2: for a crime, like, of course that's wrong. But here's
Speaker 2: the thing. It doesn't work. It never works. This is
Speaker 2: not an argument that is effective. I want't say it
Speaker 2: never works. It is generally not an effective argument, even
Speaker 2: when a layperson could look at it and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that is kind fucked up. It just doesn't work. You
Speaker 2: can't just walk into court and say, you know, well,
Speaker 2: your honor, I was speeding, but so is everybody else
Speaker 2: on the interstate. It's unconstitutional to give me a ticket
Speaker 2: unless everyone gets a ticket, right that. It's not how
Speaker 2: it works.
Speaker 3: They're picking on me.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, you can't just say, you know, other people
Speaker 2: did what I did, but I'm the only one standing here,
Speaker 2: so it's not fair. You have to there's an actual
Speaker 2: structure to this. Oh Jay got away with it. That
Speaker 2: means I should too, right, right, We're not catching every murderer,
Speaker 2: so like, yeah, I should get a freebee.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you have to show not only that there was
Speaker 2: a particular other individual who engaged in the same conduct
Speaker 2: who was not charged, but also that quote a federal
Speaker 2: prosecutorial policy had a discriminatory effect, and it was motivated
Speaker 2: by a discriminate tory purpose. So in the speeding ticket analogy, right,
Speaker 2: you'd have to say, you know, I was doing eighty
Speaker 2: in the school zone, but so were these three other
Speaker 2: particular women like John, Jane and Gina were all doing
Speaker 2: it too, and we all got pulled over. But the
Speaker 2: cop only gave me a ticket because he hates men
Speaker 2: or something, right, Like, you would have to.
Speaker 3: Show that based miss andres cop.
Speaker 2: Right, So you'd have to show that other people did
Speaker 2: the exact same thing you did, and it was possible
Speaker 2: for them to have gotten in trouble too, yeah, but
Speaker 2: they didn't because of a particular form of discrimination.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in order to make a valid claim of selective prosecution,
Speaker 2: Rondo's lawyers would have to say, Look, here's Joe Antifa,
Speaker 2: a real guy who exists, and here is a materially
Speaker 2: similar set of circumstances in which Joe Antifa ran an
Speaker 2: organized group that got into fights on purpose, provoked confrontations,
Speaker 2: chase people to their cars, beat women in the streets,
Speaker 2: and then use that footage to recruit people to his gang.
Speaker 2: Right Like, here's Joe Antifa bragging online about targeting members
Speaker 2: of a particular minority group. Brutal gang assaults at political rallies.
Speaker 2: Here's his group actively planning and organizing to travel to
Speaker 2: different cities in other states across the country with the
Speaker 2: explicit and stated goal of provoking and attacking people. Right,
Speaker 2: you can't just say, well, Antifa didn't get charged. You
Speaker 2: have to present an actual person who did what you did,
Speaker 2: not just some other guy who did something you don't
Speaker 2: like or somebody else who maybe did kind of a crime.
Speaker 2: You have to say, this is a specific person and
Speaker 2: he did what I did in a materially similar way
Speaker 2: to the same degree that I did it, and with
Speaker 2: just as much evidence to support that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And in the Ram case, there's so much evidence because
Speaker 2: they couldn't stop fucking posting, So they can't produce evidence
Speaker 2: that Antifa, to whatever degree that's a meaningful term here,
Speaker 2: engaged in similar behavior to what the evidence shows Ram did. Right,
Speaker 2: It's not just other people were fighting. And in this
Speaker 2: case that's kind of preposterous because the evidence does show
Speaker 2: that they specifically bragged, Like there's a text that was
Speaker 2: produced from Ben Daley bragging about how they were first
Speaker 2: through the barricades at Berkeley. So you're acknowledging that you
Speaker 2: know there was this big riot and that you started it.
Speaker 2: Sure other people were fighting in the riot that you
Speaker 2: started on purpose, So no one else can be similarly
Speaker 2: situated to you, Because even if they were fighting you
Speaker 2: started it. There has to be a real, actual, other
Speaker 2: person who is similarly situated. That's an actual legal term
Speaker 2: that encompasses a set of criteria. Is there a similar
Speaker 2: amount of evidence against this other person? Would it take
Speaker 2: a similar amount of state resources to investigate, arrest, and
Speaker 2: convict this person. We just don't have an organized, militant
Speaker 2: street gang of Antifa that sold branded apparel and bragged
Speaker 2: about crimes online. There is no similarly situated, uncharged actor
Speaker 2: on the other side of this. That person doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: But it's even more than that. Even if we did
Speaker 2: have Joe Antifa, the gang leader who's bragging online about
Speaker 2: doing this kind of stuff, even if he existed, Even then,
Speaker 2: even then there is what's called prosecutorial discretion. There may
Speaker 2: be reasons that we just aren't entitled to know about
Speaker 2: as to why a prosecutor made the decisions they did
Speaker 2: about who gets charged. For a selective prosecution argument to work,
Speaker 2: you have to show that this decision was made for
Speaker 2: a discriminatory purpose, and that's really hard to do because
Speaker 2: they're not going to tell you that, right. You know,
Speaker 2: in an ideal world, selective prosecution would be an argument raised,
Speaker 2: you know, about racial bias, because we do know that
Speaker 2: there is racial bias and who is investigated, arrested, charged,
Speaker 2: and convicted for crimes, like at every step along the way,
Speaker 2: there's a thumb on the scale against people of color.
Speaker 2: And even then, even when it is so obvious, even
Speaker 2: when you have, you know, a prosecutor who is a
Speaker 2: member of the fucking clan, even then these arguments don't
Speaker 2: tend to work. This should not have worked. But Judge
Speaker 2: Carney clearly just doesn't want this case prosecuted, right. I
Speaker 2: think it's it's very obvious that he just like thinks
Speaker 2: Rob Rundo is a nice boy who shouldn't have to
Speaker 2: go to jail for this. He is also, i think, notably,
Speaker 2: about to retire. He hits he hits the minimum retirement
Speaker 2: age in May, and he is going to retire the
Speaker 2: day that he can. I think Megan Cuniff, who has
Speaker 2: a great blog, Legal Affairs, she's been covering this case.
Speaker 2: She noted in a tweet, a few weeks ago that
Speaker 2: she knows that he intends to retire because he in
Speaker 2: rescheduling some hearings, said that that was the only day
Speaker 2: he could go to the retirement benefits class that he
Speaker 2: needs to go to to make sure he can retire
Speaker 2: the day he's eligible in May. So he just doesn't
Speaker 2: he just doesn't want to deal with this. Right that
Speaker 2: this was scheduled to go to trial in March and
Speaker 2: he's retiring in May. He just doesn't want to do it.
Speaker 3: What's the even the point anymore? What's what? I just
Speaker 3: it's like, why, well, why are they even trying here?
Speaker 3: Like it just just just like kick the can down
Speaker 3: to someone else if you don't want to like deal
Speaker 3: with this. I don't know, it's turning this whole like
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've read other things from this judge
Speaker 3: how he's like he's like very much into like this
Speaker 3: big like Antifa conspiracy theory, and.
Speaker 2: He's a little bit racist, Like there was an issue
Speaker 2: he's oh, I'm shocked. He was chief judge of the
Speaker 2: circuit briefly, but he had to step down, so he's
Speaker 2: still a judge in the Central District of California. But
Speaker 2: he's not the chief judge anymore because he made a
Speaker 2: racist comment to the Clerk of Court. So he's I mean,
Speaker 2: I think there's some stuff going on with Judge Carney,
Speaker 2: So I think he knows when he made this ruling
Speaker 2: that like the Ninth Circuit's gonna send it back, but
Speaker 2: that's not gonna be his problem anymore because he's out
Speaker 2: of here in May. So you heard this like absolute
Speaker 2: dog shit argument and he was like, so true, King,
Speaker 2: this is not fair. You are free to go go ahead,
Speaker 2: and he let him out same day, Like he heard
Speaker 2: this argument. He was like, absolutely, that's the one. Go
Speaker 2: on home. And he let him out that day. If
Speaker 2: he was attorney made a motion for an emergency stay,
Speaker 2: saying like, okay, well, let's just let's not get ahead
Speaker 2: of ourselves. Why don't we just hang on to him
Speaker 2: till we can talk to the Ninth Circuit about this,
Speaker 2: because I don't know. And that's pretty normal. That would
Speaker 2: be normal for the judge to say, let's give it
Speaker 2: a day. I mean, I want him release, but we'll
Speaker 2: give it a day. We'll let you get your paperwork
Speaker 2: in order. No, he just let him out, just let
Speaker 2: him out right that day and considering his history of
Speaker 2: fleeing the country, not the call I would have made.
Speaker 3: It is quite the choice.
Speaker 2: So the very next day, the Ninth Circuit was like,
Speaker 2: hold on, let's get him back in custity while we
Speaker 2: think about this. And it makes no sense for CARNEI
Speaker 2: to deny the emergency stay. That would be really normal
Speaker 2: to stay the decision until we have a chance to
Speaker 2: sort of think this through. Right, even if he truly
Speaker 2: believed with his whole heart that there's no way that
Speaker 2: this would ever get kicked back by the Ninth Circuit,
Speaker 2: that the case would stay dismissed and Rundo would be
Speaker 2: free to go, it would not be unusual to say,
Speaker 2: you know, well, this has been pretty contentious. The defendant
Speaker 2: has fled the country multiple time, so let's just hang
Speaker 2: on to him for twenty four forty eight hours while
Speaker 2: we go through the motions of getting that emergency hearing.
Speaker 2: But that's not what happened, because Robert Rundo is the
Speaker 2: definition of a flight risk.
Speaker 3: Yes he is. Like he's the platonic ideal form of
Speaker 3: a flight risk.
Speaker 2: I've sat through a lot of bond hearings and I
Speaker 2: know we are definitely not all using the same dictionary
Speaker 2: here when it comes to what is a flight risk.
Speaker 2: But you really can't find a guy who has done
Speaker 2: more to demonstrate than he absolutely can and will flee
Speaker 2: the country to avoid going back to court. He does
Speaker 2: not want to go to court. So back in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: when those two prosecutions were initially filed, right, the Virginia
Speaker 2: case was filed first, So when Ben Daley was arrested,
Speaker 2: the charges hadn't actually been filed yet against rob Rundo.
Speaker 2: But I guess when they came to get Ben on
Speaker 2: October second, so eighteen days before the charges were filed
Speaker 2: against rob Rundo himself, they came to get Ben in
Speaker 2: La and he's like, mm, time to get out of dodge.
Speaker 2: So I think that was the moment he was like
Speaker 2: I gotta go. You know, he knew they might be
Speaker 2: coming for him next. So first he tries going to Ukraine,
Speaker 2: which is a great place for a militant right wing
Speaker 2: extremists to go hang out with friends, right, And unfortunately
Speaker 2: for him, his flight had a layover in London. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it like didn't occur to him that
Speaker 2: maybe when they look at your passport, like maybe maybe
Speaker 2: the US government like anticipated that you would do this,
Speaker 2: but so he throw looks at his at his passport.
Speaker 2: It was like mm, the US government says, do not
Speaker 2: pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars, do not
Speaker 2: proceed to Nazi asylum. And they turn him back. Now
Speaker 2: mind you, he's not arrested yet, right, They just won't
Speaker 2: let him go to Ukraine.
Speaker 3: Interesting, so he he doesn't. He doesn't get to London though.
Speaker 2: I think he gets to London and they were like, no,
Speaker 2: you can't, you can't go.
Speaker 3: I don't know how he got that far. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that is that is intriguing.
Speaker 2: So back in California he walked to Mexico.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is which is part of his tea tie
Speaker 3: with Robert Rundo advice.
Speaker 2: Right, So like he literally went on foot over the
Speaker 2: US Mexico border to avoid passport control and then he
Speaker 2: travel over land through Mexico into l Salvador, YEP, where
Speaker 2: he presumably intended to try getting on a plane. Again.
Speaker 3: You need you need to get far enough south so
Speaker 3: that when you fly you don't cross over American airspace.
Speaker 3: Other people in ram have tried this and have not
Speaker 3: gone far south enough and their plane crosses over like
Speaker 3: the tip of US airsplace around Florida, and then they
Speaker 3: get flagged so that when they land they get they
Speaker 3: get like arrested or turned back.
Speaker 2: See that's so tricky, Like I be playing funny. I've
Speaker 2: got a plane ticket recently for vacation. I'm not fleeing
Speaker 2: the country or anything.
Speaker 3: Molly's flying.
Speaker 2: Everyone actually don't even have a passport. But when you
Speaker 2: buy a plane ticket, they do not provide for you
Speaker 2: a sort of schematic of the flight path. So I
Speaker 2: don't know how they're figuring this out. I guess they're not.
Speaker 3: If it's not a rundo. I think typically tries to
Speaker 3: get far enough south that he he just gets a
Speaker 3: direct flight to somewhere in like the Middle East or
Speaker 3: eastern Europe.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it would have worked, because
Speaker 2: when he got to l Salvador, the plane that he
Speaker 2: got on was not headed to Ukraine. It was headed
Speaker 2: back to lax in the company of some FBI agents hope,
Speaker 2: So they brought him back and he was formally arrested
Speaker 2: in the La airport when they brought him back. Very
Speaker 2: funny because in the weeks that he had spent trying
Speaker 2: to get away, the indictment against him had come back
Speaker 2: and he was also being charged. So after Judge Carnie
Speaker 2: dropped the charges the first time back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: Rondo got his passport back and immediately left the country again,
Speaker 2: traveling to Europe visiting other fascist fight clubs. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, in this time period, the US Attorney is
Speaker 2: appealing the dismissal of the charges, like they they want
Speaker 2: to bring this case. They're you know, they're waiting for
Speaker 2: the Ninth Circuit to hear them, but they're watching him
Speaker 2: cavorting around Eastern Europe and they're like they're filing motions
Speaker 2: saying like, we really got to get him back, Like
Speaker 2: he's at a Nazi rally in Hungary. He's he's got
Speaker 2: a podcast. He's got a podcast where he's telling people
Speaker 2: how to evade capture by getting foreign passports, Like we
Speaker 2: got to get him back. And so when the charges
Speaker 2: were finally reinstated by the Ninth Circuit in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: he'd been formally expelled from Serbia, where he'd been living,
Speaker 2: and he was eventually arrested in and extradited from Romania.
Speaker 2: And then when Judge Corney dismissed the charges again two
Speaker 2: weeks ago, and the Ninth Circuit was like, we got
Speaker 2: to get him back. Do you know where they found him?
Speaker 2: The Mexican border. Oh curious, who could have predicted?
Speaker 1: Huh?
Speaker 2: So, like he really loves leaving the country.
Speaker 3: Time is a flat circle.
Speaker 2: Right, So Karnie lets him out. He tries to leave
Speaker 2: the country again. Immediately the Ninth Circuit says, hold on,
Speaker 2: let's bring him back. And because this system works just
Speaker 2: the most like insane imaginable ways, Like I guess when
Speaker 2: they wrote how this was gonna work, they just assumed
Speaker 2: everyone would act in good faith and they didn't put
Speaker 2: anything in for when that's not what happens.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm pretty sure that's in the Constitution. You
Speaker 3: have to assume good faith intentions. I believe the sixty
Speaker 3: ninth Amendment. You have to assume good faith.
Speaker 2: Everyone's gonna be normal about this. We don't need to
Speaker 2: build in any contingencies here. So every time the Ninth
Speaker 2: Circuit is like, ooh, Judge Carney, that's nuts, they just
Speaker 2: have to send it back to him. They it doesn't
Speaker 2: get sent to a different judge. It's just they just
Speaker 2: keep sending it back to the guy who is bound
Speaker 2: and determined to ruin this right. So it gets sent
Speaker 2: back to Judge Carney. This case is still in front
Speaker 2: of Judge Carney. So the Ninth Circuit they put him
Speaker 2: back in and Judge Charney's like, I'm a limb back out,
Speaker 2: and the Ninth Circuit's like, no, you really really can't
Speaker 2: do that. You really can't do that. And he's being
Speaker 2: kind of a pissy little baby about this right. Like,
Speaker 2: the Ninth Circuit issues an order saying, like, no one
Speaker 2: can let him out but us. If he gets let out,
Speaker 2: it will because we said so no one can let
Speaker 2: him out, you can't do it. The Ninth Circuit said,
Speaker 2: So we're up here on top.
Speaker 3: Of one side. This is fascism, this is tyranny. This
Speaker 3: is fascist of but the but the bad kind, the
Speaker 3: kind I don't like Robert Rundo.
Speaker 2: So Carney's on the bench and he's like, well, I
Speaker 2: really want to though, and so he issues an order
Speaker 2: saying like he's released, but I'm going to stay my
Speaker 2: own order. I mean, like, you know, I'm gonna enter
Speaker 2: this order saying he's released, but like it won't go
Speaker 2: into effect because technically I'm not allowed.
Speaker 3: It's such a just such a door key of like
Speaker 3: pissed baby tantramoved from a judge.
Speaker 2: Like you're beating a real baby Cormac, And he says, quote,
Speaker 2: I would like to be in a position to release
Speaker 2: him right now and let him walk out the door.
Speaker 2: Well you can't. You can't. So it gets like stupid
Speaker 2: messy here, right, So the ninth Circuit put him back
Speaker 2: in and it comes back to Carney, and Carney's like, well,
Speaker 2: this arrest wasn't even legal. I should let him out
Speaker 2: because this you can't even you couldn't put him back.
Speaker 3: You can't arrest someone without there being cause for a crime.
Speaker 2: Well, it is a little bit messy here, right, So
Speaker 2: Carney argues that Roundo's rearrest wasn't legal because he dismissed
Speaker 2: the case. So technically, when Rundo was arrested again, there
Speaker 2: was no charge against him. There is currently because the
Speaker 2: indictment was dismissed. You know, the prosecutors appealing that that dismissal.
Speaker 2: Maybe it'll get reinstated like it did last time. But
Speaker 2: like right now, he is not charged with the crime.
Speaker 3: Which is which is ridiculous because there's so many other
Speaker 3: things you could charge.
Speaker 2: Him with, right, just like find a different crime.
Speaker 3: Like there's like between all of his between all of
Speaker 3: his passport stuff, between all of his crossing the border, like,
Speaker 3: there's there's so much other there's so many other things
Speaker 3: that you could you could decide to charge him with.
Speaker 2: Surely some FBI agent has been sort of keeping tabs
Speaker 2: on his activities and they could come up with something.
Speaker 2: But as it stands, when he was re arrested, there
Speaker 2: was no charge, right, Yeah, So the Ninth Circuit does
Speaker 2: have the authority to stay the release order. So Carney
Speaker 2: issued a release order saying let him out of jail, right,
Speaker 2: And so the prosecutor was like, we need an emergency
Speaker 2: hearing in front of the Ninth Circuit on that release order.
Speaker 2: So Carney issues the release order. The prosecutor goes to
Speaker 2: the Ninth Circuit and say, we need you to push
Speaker 2: the pause button on the implementation of this order. That's
Speaker 2: really normal, that should have been what happened. But because
Speaker 2: he was released immediately, you know, before they had a
Speaker 2: chance to get heard by the Ninth Circuit, Carney's argument,
Speaker 2: which I think may maybe true here, right, is that
Speaker 2: by the time the Ninth Circuit heard the motion to
Speaker 2: stay the release order. It was moot. They can't hear
Speaker 2: argument on a motion that doesn't mean anything. You can't
Speaker 2: stay an order that's already been implemented. So once the
Speaker 2: release order was carried out and Rondo was no longer
Speaker 2: physically in custody, there was no order to stay. So
Speaker 2: the Ninth Circuit had nothing to rule on, so they
Speaker 2: they rearrested him, saying like, we're staying the release order,
Speaker 2: but the order of operations there is kind of key.
Speaker 2: At the next hearing, Carney said, I must tell you
Speaker 2: from the little things I've read, I'm quite concerned. I
Speaker 2: feel mister Rundo is being unconstitutionally detained, and it's it's messy,
Speaker 2: and I don't know what the right answer is here, right, Like,
Speaker 2: it's not unusual for someone to stay in custody pending appeal,
Speaker 2: especially if they have repeatedly attempted and succeeded at fleeing
Speaker 2: the country. Yeah, and Carney's refusal to stay the release
Speaker 2: order kind of makes you wonder if he didn't create
Speaker 2: this procedural nightmare intentionally.
Speaker 3: Sure, he kind of created this legal dilemma that now
Speaker 3: puts Rundo's incarceration in actually like a point of question.
Speaker 2: Right, Like he had to know that when the Ninth
Speaker 2: Circuit did hear this motion, they would probably reverse him.
Speaker 2: He had to know that, and he absolutely knew Rondo
Speaker 2: would flee the country before that could happen. And he's
Speaker 2: not wrong that it looks a little a little questionable
Speaker 2: to issue it arrest warrant when there is no live
Speaker 2: charge or the end result that Rondo is in custody
Speaker 2: pending some kind of further ruling from the Ninth Circuit.
Speaker 2: That's not weird, that's really normal. But everything that happened
Speaker 2: in between is a mess. I don't know what the
Speaker 2: answer to that is. I mean, I mean, as nuts
Speaker 2: as Carney is behaving like, he is probably right that
Speaker 2: you can't make a ruling on a moot motion and
Speaker 2: you can't arrest someone who's not charged with a crime,
Speaker 2: like those things are true. But I don't know what
Speaker 2: the answer is here, and I think it's his fault, yeap.
Speaker 2: So at this point, right the government is appealing Carney's
Speaker 2: dismissal of the charges, just like they did back in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. Remember that it took almost two years from
Speaker 2: the original dismissal to the Ninth Circuit ruling reversing and
Speaker 2: remanding the case in twenty twenty one, so this could
Speaker 2: take a while. At this point, what the government is
Speaker 2: asking for a stay of the release order to keep
Speaker 2: him in custody while they work through this appeals process
Speaker 2: because they are appealing the dismissal of the indictment. I
Speaker 2: don't expect a lot of movement on that this week.
Speaker 2: I think the docket shows that the appellance brief is
Speaker 2: due on the twelfth today as we're recording this as
Speaker 2: the fourth, so they'll file that brief. They may file
Speaker 2: more sort of emergency petitions for his release. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure the Ninth Circuit will do that, but is anybody's
Speaker 2: guess at this point, because it's kind of a big mess.
Speaker 2: The only thing that is clear is that only the
Speaker 2: Ninth Circuit can let Rob Rundo out.
Speaker 3: Well what a what A? What an enticing Rundo down
Speaker 3: have the legal events of this case. Don't want to
Speaker 3: be in that position.
Speaker 2: You know, Garrison. I'm not sure that you'll ever be
Speaker 2: in this position. I hope not, at least not in
Speaker 2: this exact one, unless you're running a secret Nazi gang
Speaker 2: that I do not know about, in which case, disavow, disavow.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's good, that's good. Yeah you should, that's probably
Speaker 3: the right move.
Speaker 2: But so it'll take some time.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what else there
Speaker 3: is to say.
Speaker 2: This is like sort of inciting a lot of active
Speaker 2: club activity. You were saying earlier that the you know
Speaker 2: ram doesn't exist anymore. It's morphed into these active clubs.
Speaker 2: There's these cells all over the country and they are
Speaker 2: fired up about this. So I think this has the
Speaker 2: potential to incite more political violence, or at the very.
Speaker 3: Least, incite more T shirt sales, which would be just
Speaker 3: as horrified to see those things out in the.
Speaker 2: Wild, already marketing free rundo merch. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I bet, yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess even Nazis have constitutional rights.
Speaker 3: I guess they do. Although it does feel again slightly
Speaker 3: uh insidious at the selective non enforcement of some of
Speaker 3: these things where there's many, many people who are being held,
Speaker 3: especially like in Atlanta, it's been many people being helped
Speaker 3: with out bail because they've been deemed a flight risk
Speaker 3: for a long long time for crimes.
Speaker 2: Not because they hold like a Serbian passport. No, no,
Speaker 2: just because they intended a music festival, right. I Mean
Speaker 2: it's hard to get like super fired up about rob
Speaker 2: Rundo's constitutional rights in terms of this sort of like
Speaker 2: procedural quagmire when it's like people are actively and intentionally
Speaker 2: violating everyone else's constitutional rights constantly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, the only thing I left to think of
Speaker 3: is how this whole system of law does not seem
Speaker 3: to work very much, and especially we often point out
Speaker 3: how a whole bunch of laws get put in place
Speaker 3: and are like ostensibly framed like combat white supremacist terrorism
Speaker 3: or whatever, and in actuality really only get used against
Speaker 3: people fighting for like the rights of black people, people
Speaker 3: fighting for getting trans people not to be murdered. Like
Speaker 3: that's that's really what all these laws get targeted against,
Speaker 3: and they faced so so much more harsh punishment because
Speaker 3: we have we have a judge who's treating rob Rundo
Speaker 3: like a little a little baby, who's this innocent little creature. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: people can get constantly locked up for completely bullshit charges
Speaker 3: in other parts of the country for engaging in like
Speaker 3: actually like pretty pretty valid acts of protest not even
Speaker 3: related to any like alleged violence. Like there's it's it's
Speaker 3: it's quite it's quite frustrating to to to look at. Yes,
Speaker 3: there is actually a decent case of selective enforcement here, and.
Speaker 2: It's the other way around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is not in fact that they're letting Antifa
Speaker 3: run wild and burn down cities. In fact, these these
Speaker 3: these Nazis get treated like little little innocent First Amendment
Speaker 3: defenders as they purposely like talk about and brag about
Speaker 3: their claims of traveling across the country to assault peace
Speaker 3: people and start riots. Anyway, Well, that's that's not great.
Speaker 2: Things are not good.
Speaker 3: I hope only the worst for Rundo, regardless of whatever
Speaker 3: legal thing happens, just like in general, like I like,
Speaker 3: I I wish him bad, just like in life, you know,
Speaker 3: like I hope you like trips and falls down the stairs,
Speaker 3: you know, just like in general, like stub is Toe
Speaker 3: really bad gets.
Speaker 2: About this situation, Like there are a million outcomes here
Speaker 2: that are the dumbest possible ending to this story. So
Speaker 2: I'm not holding my breath for you know, some brilliant
Speaker 2: prosecutor to save the day here. But I do hope
Speaker 2: that that Rob Rundo continues to have a bad day regardless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you for this lovely piece of legal research, Molly.
Speaker 2: Now I have to close eighty seven tabs.
Speaker 3: That is always the joy of wrapping up one of
Speaker 3: these episodes. It's closing the ridiculous amount of tabs that
Speaker 3: are open, because at at any moment in my research process,
Speaker 3: any of my friends looks at my computer, they are
Speaker 3: horrified by the stress that I'm putting my own ram
Speaker 3: through different ram, the other ram than the Yeah it
Speaker 3: is computer computer ram not.
Speaker 2: Also under considerable strain at this time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Well, right, I feel like that's that's as
Speaker 3: bad enough a joke to end it on as anything
Speaker 3: else where. Can people find you online? Way?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh? Yeah, I am online at Socialist dog Mom
Speaker 2: on Twitter, on my newsletter on ghost the Devil's Advocates,
Speaker 2: and I don't know my dogs have an Instagram that
Speaker 2: I haven't updated lately. It's auto m Buck does it
Speaker 2: for me? How about you, Garrison?
Speaker 3: Oh, you can find me documenting my process of slowly
Speaker 3: turning my entire apartment into the Black Lodge on Twitter
Speaker 3: at Hungry Bowtie. All right, wow, you you can actually
Speaker 3: see a little bit of it behind me. It's kind
Speaker 3: of dark, but you can see a glimmer of red curtains.
Speaker 2: Yes, spooky back there, It.
Speaker 3: Is quite spooky back there. Wait until I turn Wait
Speaker 3: until I turn on the strobe light.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you for joining me today, Garrison.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you, Molly.
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