WEBVTT - Bees Can Guide Us to the Future of Golf (Seriously) 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.040 Hello, and welcome to the Frida Egg Podcast. My name 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.520 is Garrett Morrison, and today I'm talking about bee keeping 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.240 and sustainable golf with Parker Anderson. But first, this episode 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.360 is brought to you by our friends at Precision Pro Golf. 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.480 Precision Pro is proud to announce its next major advance 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.680 in golf technology, and that's the ACE Smart Speaker. This 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.120 is a portable Bluetooth speaker that can read distances to you. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.640 So the A Smart Speaker doesn't just play music. A 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.479 stands for audio Caddy experience, and that's really what it is. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.120 It's a personal caddie that speaks to you and gives 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.519 you GPS distances to the front, middle, and back of 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.159 the green. It also enables you to customize layup zones 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.720 and get distances for those. Basically, it just allows you 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.199 not to second guests your distances or second guests the 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.440 shot you've decided to hit. The A Smart Speaker is 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.240 available for just one nine ninety nine at precisionprogolf dot 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.000 com or Amazon dot com. It could be a great 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.800 holiday gift for yourself or for a golfer you know, 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.399 swing with confidence, hit more greens with Precision Pro Golf 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.560 all right, Today we are tackling the widely debated issue 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:19.080 of golf's relationship to the environment. My guest is Parker Anderson, 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.880 who runs a company called Greener Golf. Basically, Greener Golf 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.880 consults with courses about how to use their resources better 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.800 and how to be more sustainable overall. And Parker's basic 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.399 message to those courses and to us is that golf 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.080 can really be a force for good in the environment. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.360 It doesn't have to take away, doesn't have to just 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.240 kind of keep things status quo. It can actually offer benefits. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.520 And one of those benefits involves bees, which Parker and 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.640 I will definitely talk about, So one more thing before 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.800 we get into it. In addition to all the other 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.280 stuff he's done, Parker was a founding member of the 0:01:56.360 --> 0:02:02.480 band iration Fablo, and he's close friends with the lead 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.200 singer of that band, Micah Pouschelle, who sometimes goes by Posh. 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.800 Micah is a big time golf tragic, well known in 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.200 the golf community, and when Parker refers to Posh at 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.560 the beginning of our interview, that's what he's talking about. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.679 All right, let's do it. I miss a green, for example, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:19.720 I'm already upset. 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.160 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:23.639 And when I find my ball in a. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.720 Bride egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.280 Frida egg, Brian egg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:57.360 about ready to run off the golf course. You grew 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.400 up in Hawaii, Yeah, we did. You just let Hawaii 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:00.680 for a while. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.200 Live in Hawaii for a while. So I was there 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.079 from like in middle school through high school, and that's 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.160 kind of how I know, poosh. We we kind of 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.000 grew up together some pretty formative years there with with 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.280 Micah and a lot of the guys from the band Iration. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.440 We all ended up in Santa Barbara together and kind 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.520 of started that band up, which was a lot of fun. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.240 But Hawaii's a really special spot for me. I was 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.520 the tournament director for the Hawaii State Junior Golf Association 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.680 for a couple of years, which was great experience, and 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.200 got to play a lot of golf in Hawaii, which 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.560 is always always a good treat. We're actually heading back 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.240 to Hawaii on January first for about six weeks, so 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:38.320 I'm really excited about that. 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.440 Good time of your to do it. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.800 I know, man, it's great, all right, Well, why. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.680 Don't we dig into the topic. There's many things that 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.560 I could talk about with you, Like, there's any number 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.680 of things. You've got a fascinating resume, and you and 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.800 I have some places in common even that we could 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.120 probably chat about. Yeah, maybe people wouldn't be as interested 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.800 in that as the work that you're doing, and that 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.640 work centers on sustainability and golf. Now, I was going 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.800 to open with some questions about bees and bee keeping 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.960 and that idea on golf courses, and we'll get to that, 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.960 for sure, we'll tell that story. But there was an 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.880 article that came out this week on cnn dot com 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.679 that discussed golf and the environment and ended up getting 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.040 passed around a lot on the internet. You know. It's 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.520 an interesting article in the sense that the SoundBite from it, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:37.320 the quote that's going to get reprinted and redistributed, is 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.719 the line golf is a dirty sport that's wrecking the planet, 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.279 but it doesn't have to be. So there's that line 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.680 in the article. But then the article kind of goes 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.120 on to discuss golf in the environment, the challenges that 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.120 it's facing right now, and some of the things that 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.159 golf architects and golf course superintendents are doing to try 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.000 to improve things, and so that the article doesn't really 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.600 follow up on that opening proclamation. But in any case, 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.840 so I guess what I wanted to ask you about 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.960 was if somebody didn't know anything about golf in the 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.840 environment and just read that article, what would you want 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:14.720 that person to know? 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.240 I mean, it's it's a common theme these these articles 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.120 that I've I've received a lot of them, and it's 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.720 come into many forms. And and when I started reading 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.080 it with with like that tagline that you mentioned of 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.560 golf as a dirty sport that's wrecking the planet, and 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.120 I was like, oh, here we go again. You know, 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.480 this is just another one of these bashing golf kind 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.560 of articles. And like you said, it does follow up 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.840 with some examples, some case studies of carbon sequestration, of 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.000 a lot of a lot of positives that that are 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.920 happening in the golf and some some case studies, and 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.240 but a lot of it is from Europe. You know, 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.200 there's a lot of examples in Europe and Iceland, some 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.440 really cool stuff happening in Iceland, which is fascinating. Surprisingly, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.000 you know, surprisingly, golf in Iceland. But there's some great, 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.920 great examples there really really progressive approach to how golf 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.440 impacts the environment. And I think that's something that I 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.960 think the golf industry in general is very, very bad 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:17.440 at of describing the value of golf, especially to non golfers. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.560 And what what the challenge that I face a lot 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.279 is is there's a there's a big stigma already, you know, 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.320 set in our society that golf courses are these these 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:32.200 wasteful elitists kind of land like high fence, high walls, 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.159 land uses that are inaccessible, that have a history of 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.120 you know, closing their gates to to many people. And 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:42.880 you know, I think some of it is justified. And 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:48.159 but I think to to make generalizations that golf is 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.760 a dirty sport, you know, and it's and it's wrecking 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.520 the planet is is kind of an oversimplification. There's there's 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.480 a there's fifteen thousand golf courses about approximately in the US, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.040 and some are doing really incredible things, and some are 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.240 having a challenge with with what we're facing with with 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.280 this climate catastrophe and and how do you how do 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.000 we survive that? So there's some really we're kind of 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.520 at a really critical time in the history of our 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.600 our species, but also our industry, and when when there's 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.520 this battle of golfers, you know, kind of seeing this 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.720 dynamic of golf against the environment, there's kind of this 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.320 trade off often where you know, this has kind of 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.920 been the norm in our industry, is like if if 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.800 we have to be more environmental, better environmental stewards, then 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:40.600 we have to give up something else. And I don't 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.400 see it that way. I think that's kind of a 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.280 thing of the past, where sustainability and focusing on environmental 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.000 initiatives and and kind of going beyond sustainability really of 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:56.040 using golf courses as these regenerative spaces and and really 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.800 provide a lot of value to community. You know, that's 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.400 a possibility, and the courses that are kind of a 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.920 demonstrating that right now. But I think the article really 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.640 touches on a point that there's a stigma around golf, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.600 especially to the non golfer. You know, most most people 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.840 experience golf from a I'm just driving by this fenced 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.280 off area and I see the irrigation going off, and 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.800 I don't see a single soul out there, So what 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:27.559 a waste of land there's a California Assembly bill that's 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:32.840 been proposed recently AB six seventy two, and it's basically 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.600 a proposal to turn a lot of public golf courses 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:42.760 into affordable housing. And you know, I'm all for affordable housing. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.640 I think you know, we were just talking about the 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:49.040 challenge of living in California and I need some affordable housing. 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.000 But there's I think there's there's better ways to do it. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.600 I mean, golf courses often in these urban areas, are 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:02.000 these last remaining green spaces that provide a significant value 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.200 to those communities that, like I said, golf were not 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.280 very good at telling that story, especially to non golfers. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.160 And that's a lot of what my work involves is 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:16.280 saying this land use provides this list of ecosystem services 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.960 to this community. And so you know, what I'm saying 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.480 is we need to be able to describe the value 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.199 of a golf course other than just monetary value. And 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.720 that's where the difficult work comes into play. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.960 And you know, part of this is a pr project 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.040 in a sense that in that CNN article, there was 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.520 an easy opportunity for the writer or the writers to 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.679 say golf is a dirty sport. And it's wrecking the planet. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.880 And a lot of readers will simply sort of accept 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.240 that because that is an established narrative that people are 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.600 familiar with, as sort of oversimplified or even erroneous as 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.520 it might be. And so part of the project is 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.200 to combat that, to put a different story out there 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.640 and give people access to that so they have the 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.160 ability to say, actually, I don't know if I really 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.920 believe that line of the article. So that's maybe one thing. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.880 But another thing is working with golf courses to improve 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:21.040 the environmental services that they provide. Your company, Greener Golf 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.360 does a lot of this kind of work, and specifically, 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.400 one that's really fun to talk about is the bee 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.000 keeping work that you do. And so maybe we could 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.760 just start by talking about bees in general, because I 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.240 think a lot of people sort of avoid bees. Their 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.079 main relationship with bees is please don't sting me, or 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.360 please get out of my food or whatever. But tell 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.120 me about your interest in bees and how that came about. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.920 Yeah, well, my interest in bees goes way back, and 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.480 so does my experience in golf, and so it's a 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.200 it's been a great I'm very grateful for the ability 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.640 to combine those two passions together. You know, the more 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.319 I learn about bees and I can you need to 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.439 learn about bees even though I've been a beekeeper for 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:09.040 about fifteen years, is there really incredible creatures, really selfless. 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:13.280 They kind of operate on this for the greater good 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.800 model and they just work tirelessly for the greater good 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.320 of their colony. And I think that's an incredible lesson 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.760 to be learned right off the bat. And then pollinators, 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:29.560 especially honey bees, really are the backbone of our agricultural systems. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:34.760 They provide pollination services for over a third of the 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.920 food that we eat, So basically every one out of 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.200 three bites that you're consuming is thanks to a honey 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.760 bee and its pollination, and so they're very important for 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:50.080 our agriculture. The problem is that we're experiencing significant die 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.200 offs of colonies every year. So basically a beekeeper will 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.480 experience thirty to fifty percent of their colonies will die 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.680 every year. So a lot of the work of a 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.520 bee keeper is really recovering your losses and then trying 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:08.679 to re strengthen your colonies. And so, like I said earlier, 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.240 at a very critical time in the history of our 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.400 species of the planet, and bees play a really critical 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:18.320 part in that. And how it relates to golf is 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:23.199 that bees are on golf courses already. They find water, 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.520 they're looking for flowers. There's trees that have flowers, there's 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.440 out of play areas that have flowers. So they're foraging 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.920 on golf courses already. They're looking for places to live. 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.280 But the human honeybeat interaction is not always positive on 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:43.200 a golf course, as you know. And so for example, 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:47.959 at goat Hill Park in Oceanside, great little facility that 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.080 I love to spend time at, we have a great 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:54.640 beekeeping program down there. And how it started was I 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.800 was playing in the Herdsman, which is a two man 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.760 best ball two day event, which is a blast. But 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.040 we're playing and there's there's I'm just looking around. There's 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.840 bees and irrigation boxes. There's a swarm that's hanging from 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.200 a tree like right next to the cart path, and 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.160 there's just bees everywhere, which is you know, it's it's 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.319 great showing that bees are healthy in that area, but 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:18.880 it but it I was like this. I talked to 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.360 John Ashworth and I said, John, this is a a liability. 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.160 There's you know, people are getting stung and let's do 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.480 something about this, and so he was really supportive. He 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.840 loves the bees, and so we started. Basically, my work 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.800 was to capture all of these colonies, relocate them to 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.280 a safe spot, and and create this ap area that's 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.520 dedicated to the bees. So we can kind of keep 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.040 the bees in their separate corner and keep the golfers 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.520 in their separate corners, and everyone's happy and and that's 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:51.880 been a really positive story for the bees. Additionally, you know, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.760 bees require forage, and you've got this giant irrigated landscape 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.480 a golf course. Uh. I think the average size of 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.880 a golf course is about one hundred and fifty acres, 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.240 and on average, sixty percent of that acreage is managed 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.520 for turf for play, So you've got forty percent of 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.920 that one hundred and fifty acres is kind of underutilized space. 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:16.679 So a lot of a lot of my work at 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:22.080 Greener Golf is really finding alternative uses value added you know, 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.480 programming for those spaces, and a lot of it is 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:29.040 creating pollender habitat areas or depending on the region, you know, 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.920 stormwater catchment basins, or just adding a lot of a 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.280 lot of features into these underutilized spaces, and so at 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.360 Go Hill we have a huge kind of pollender habitat 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.440 area where we're kind of taking more and more areas 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.160 and dedicating them to growing flowers to support the bees 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:51.440 because they really need a constant forage source. Kind of 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.240 tied all in is is sustainability, and quantifying sustainability is 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.360 really challenging. There's so many factors. I think at the 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:06.040 University of Minnesota, I tried to capture like every measurable 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.000 factor and it was close to a thousand metrics that 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.840 you would have to quantify in order to really assess 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.960 what your sustainability level is. And that's that's a lot 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.320 of time. You know, golf course superintendents don't have extra time, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.240 and so so trying to accomplish that was a big challenge. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.640 So what's great about bees, in my opinion, is that 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.920 bees are what's called an indicator species, meaning if they're 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:36.480 healthy and present in a location, it indicates that that 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.520 area or that ecosystem is healthy. So if you have 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.800 healthy bees, that basically translates to a healthy ecosystem. So 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.160 it's basically a shorthand way of saying, we have healthy 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.840 bees here. So therefore, this golf course is sustainable. And 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.840 it's it's a very easy kind of shorthand way to 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.480 not have to go through measuring a thousand different factors. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.840 But it's it's kind of it's a start, i'd say, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:06.080 a start to demonstrating that a golf course is sustainable 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.400 by having bees. I call them the trojan horse of 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.920 sustainability because there's just so many kind of additional or 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:18.360 indirect benefits that having bees really results in. 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.960 And when you say a trojan horse for sustainability in golf, 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.040 what comes to mind for me is just introducing the 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.040 concept to golf courses through a bee keeping program that 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.840 you can use your out of play areas in different ways, right, 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.840 because there's a number of things that you could do 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.200 with out of play areas, not just bee keeping. So 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.000 what are what are some of those additional possibilities that 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:43.680 you've thought about or that you've seen. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.080 I mean, bees are one component of it. Pollinators, We 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.320 really rely on pollinators. But what I like to consider 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.640 is what we call stacking functions. So how can you 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.600 get the most the most value out of a space. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.240 So stacking functions would be something like, all right, we've 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.640 identified this area, we're gonna create a stormwater catchment basin 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.920 or retention basin where when it rains, it'll fill with water. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.720 So we're going to capture water on site. But also 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.840 those plants there, we're gonna grow some plants that are 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.480 also beneficial to pollinators. Maybe there's some some plants there 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.040 that are harvestables as a form of agriculture, so we 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.520 have some additional value there of creating some food for humans. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.400 And those spaces then have a lot more value than 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:31.399 just kind of keeping it out of sight, out of 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.800 mind and just letting it, letting it do its thing. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.119 There's a little a little bit more i'd say grunt 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.160 work on the front end to to start those programs 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.800 and initiatives, but once they get rolling, and really the 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.920 design is key of how do you design this space 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.560 so that it kind of perpetuates itself, that you that 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.600 you don't have to spend a lot of time on it, 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.680 but it also provides all these values. So those those 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.960 types of considerations are what kind of goes through that process. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.720 Yeah, I mean, I've noticed that a lot of golf 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:06.600 courses put maintenance effort into their out of play areas 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.679 and so just not really having to do that as 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.760 much anymore would potentially free some things up. But you know, 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.040 this is you're describing the bee keeping program at at 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.320 Goatthill Park. Goatthill Park is, as you alluded to, is 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.760 a unique place with a wonderful culture headed up by 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.919 John Ashworth, who currently runs the Linksoul brand, but is 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.800 also familiar to golfers through the Ashworth brand, which came 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.280 before that, and they you know, there was a community 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.000 effort to save that golf course and ever since then 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.480 it's been this place of kind of experimentation. And so 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:47.000 you could argue that Goatthill Park is uniquely well situated 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.920 to accept an idea like a beekeeping program. Like if 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.640 I were to guess any American golf course that would 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.600 be most receptive to an idea like this, I would 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.600 probably say Goatthill Park, right, that would be my guess, 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.919 which is a wonderful thing for Goathill Park really, But 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.880 at other kinds of golf courses you're going to run 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.879 into a little more trouble in getting them to adopt 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:15.000 things like this, And so how do you negotiate that diplomacy? 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:21.320 Good question. So there's obviously a variety in the character 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.399 of clubs. Goat Hill, as we recognize, is a unique case, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.919 but I've worked with the University of Michigan golf courses 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:33.200 both have strong beekeeping programs. The Valley Club of Montecito 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:38.080 has a really strong beekeeping program, and the primary cause 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.159 of that, or the start of that was basically to 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:44.600 mitigate the relationship and kind of coordinate the relationship between 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.040 humans and honey bees, golfers and honeybees. Because there's a 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.520 lot of these golf courses, are these like bee banks 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.560 where there's bees there, there's a lot of bees on 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.239 these properties. How can you safely navigate and manage that 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.680 relationship where you don't want to swarm or a colony 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.200 to move in right next to tea box? So how 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:12.160 do you safely capture or kind of relocate these these 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.880 colonies to a space that you can really be an 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.800 environmental steward, a steward of these colonies and really support 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:23.919 the local honeybee population, but also provide safety for for 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.000 your membership. The superintendent at the Valley Club, Kevin O'Connor, 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.440 is really supportive of the of the program. He loves 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.439 the bees and always asking questions about him, and uh, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.400 but I think the membership, you know, the membership really 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.679 is supportive of it as well. And and I think 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.280 a lot of the members recognize that the honey bees 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.840 are a valuable part of our ecosystem and we need 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.440 to support them. Another benefit, though, is which is which 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.199 is a challenge for me sometimes is keeping up with 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.879 the demand for for honey. I mean everyone is always 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.480 asking when is the when is the honey harvest? And uh, 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.960 it's you know, I'm a beekeeper primarily for the benefit 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.359 of the bees. I'm trying to strengthen and support honeybee 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.639 populations and other pollinators, and so I'm not trying to 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.719 push them too hard to capture a lot of honey. 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.160 But occasionally they'll have a surplus and I'll be able 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.720 to get some and hopefully that satisfies the demand a 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:20.200 little bit. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.320 But do you have jars that you hand out and stuff? 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.240 Yeah, I mean, as part of my contracts with these 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:32.960 clients is any honey surplus that is gathered is belongs 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.359 to the club. And so there is a harvest at 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.760 Goat Hill And I just gave you know, thirty jars 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.520 to John and he gave them out to his staff 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.240 to each member of his staff got a little three 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.480 ounce jar with a goat Hill honey on it and 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.040 had a Keyr code on the top that links to 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.320 my website that has a lot of information of why 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.760 bees are important. And he gave that out as a 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:01.840 gift to sell it right the seventh anniversary of Goat Hill. 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.360 And I think that little gifts really connected a lot 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.800 of the employees to the golf course and they recognize 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.320 the value of the bee keeping program and and really 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.840 they recognize that that Goat Hill is a benefit to 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.120 the to the ecosystem. We're not swimming in honey. It's 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.680 not like a big honey production operation or anything. We're 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.280 just I'm just trying to keep the bees healthy and 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.480 keep golfers healthy as well. 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:27.120 It's a it's a side benefit. 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:27.520 Yeah. 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.040 Probably pretty delicious too. I mean it's amazing, Like truly 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:35.000 organic honey is is another another animal so to speak, 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.119 from from the stuff you get at the grocery store. 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:41.560 Yeah, the local, locally sourced honey. See, it's seasonal, so 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.159 it'll taste different during different times of the year. And 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.440 it's really thought to be really good for for allergies 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:50.639 and because it has the local pollen in it. That's 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.320 that's processed by the bees a little bit. So yeah, 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:54.639 it's a hot commodity. 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:55.440 That's cool. 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:56.840 Yeah. 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:01.119 So let's talk a little more generally about sustainability and 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.880 how you define it. You have a working definition of 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.119 sustainability in golf. Could you tell me about that, just 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.200 so we can kind of root ourselves and what we're 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:12.840 talking about when we say sustainability, because it's such a 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.120 buzzword now, but it does actually mean. 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:21.120 Something that's a challenge in and of itself, is defining sustainability. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:25.960 So the United Nations has a definition. It's meeting the 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:29.440