WEBVTT - Rise of the Cicadas, Part 4

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 2>name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with the

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<v Speaker 3>fourth and final part in our series on cicadas. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>if you haven't heard the first three parts yet, you

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<v Speaker 3>might want to go check those out first. That's where

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<v Speaker 3>we talk a good bit more about the biology of cicadas.

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<v Speaker 3>We've sort of had a special focus on the periodical

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<v Speaker 3>cicadas of North America because of a big exciting co

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<v Speaker 3>emergence we had this year in the eastern United States,

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<v Speaker 3>but we've been talking generally about the biology of the cicadas.

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<v Speaker 3>In the last episode, we had a really exciting digression

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<v Speaker 3>about a fungal parasite that sort of fills up the

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<v Speaker 3>abdomens of the cicadas and turns them into turns them

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<v Speaker 3>into a parmesan cheese dispenser. But today we are back

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<v Speaker 3>to talk about some more ideas of cicadas in culture

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<v Speaker 3>and in literature.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. Yeah, As is often the case with our

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<v Speaker 2>part fours or even Part fives, this is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like what's left. What did we not get to or

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<v Speaker 2>what new and weird ideas came up in our research.

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess before we get going too much here,

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<v Speaker 2>I do want to just touch based on two things

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<v Speaker 2>that I thought I was going to talk about more

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<v Speaker 2>but ended up largely ignoring. Or we're looking into a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit and deciding, well, there's maybe not as much

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<v Speaker 2>that I wanted to get into there. But I do

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<v Speaker 2>want to point out that there are some interesting accounts

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<v Speaker 2>of North American periodical cicadas from the sixteen hundreds at Plymouth.

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<v Speaker 2>This is something that was brought up in the latest

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<v Speaker 2>book from cicada expert Gen Kritzky, the twenty twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>Emergence of the Periodical Cicada, And I just found this

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<v Speaker 2>fun quotes, so I'm going to read it. This is

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<v Speaker 2>from William Bradford, the second governor of Plymouth Colony. This

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<v Speaker 2>in his History of Plymouth Plantation, so something like sixteen

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<v Speaker 2>twenty through sixteen forty seven quote and the spring before,

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<v Speaker 2>especially all the month of May, there was such a

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<v Speaker 2>quantity of a great sort of flies, like for bigness

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<v Speaker 2>to wasps or bumblebees, which came out of holes in

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<v Speaker 2>the ground and replenished all the woods and ate the

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<v Speaker 2>green things and made such a constant yelling noise as

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<v Speaker 2>made all the woods ring of them and ready to

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<v Speaker 2>death the hearers. They have not, by the English, been

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<v Speaker 2>heard or seen before or since. Okay, so I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I just kind of like the idea of these these

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<v Speaker 2>guys trying to make sense of these wasp or bumble

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<v Speaker 2>bee like creatures that made this racket, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it just seemed to sort of come out of nowhere

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<v Speaker 2>without previous or latter records regarding them.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, this came up actually in the most recent Listener

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<v Speaker 3>Male episode, or actually maybe in two Listener Male episodes ago.

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<v Speaker 3>But I do want to clarify that there are in

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<v Speaker 3>fact cicadas in Europe. It's not that there are no

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<v Speaker 3>cicadas in Europe, but they are all annual species. I

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<v Speaker 3>do not believe there are any periodical cicadas in Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, periodical cicadas are a North American phenomena, but we

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<v Speaker 2>do have these rich tradition traditions regarding annual cicadas elsewhere

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<v Speaker 2>in the world.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe there are. Actually I was looking at research

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<v Speaker 3>there might be a couple of other possible periodical cicadas

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<v Speaker 3>elsewhere in the world, but they have different periods than

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<v Speaker 3>the thirteen or seventeen.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think there's one that Kritsky brings up in

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<v Speaker 2>this latest book that's being looked at. I go back

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<v Speaker 2>to that episode, but I mentioned it in passing at least. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but again, there are annuals all over the place, and

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<v Speaker 2>therefore there are traditions of eating annual cicadas in cultures

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<v Speaker 2>around the world. This was another area I thought I

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<v Speaker 2>was going to dive into more. But suffice to say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they've long been considered by humans, and you'll find them

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<v Speaker 2>on menus traditionally around the world. But also it looks

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of the more adventurous restaurants in the

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<v Speaker 2>world have been capitalizing on cicicada fever. I was reading

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<v Speaker 2>an article that came out on the website for Smithsonian

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<v Speaker 2>last month by Aaron Borstein titled from Dinner Parties to Restaurants,

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<v Speaker 2>Cicadas are landing in the kitchen. He points out that, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they can be prepared numerous ways, often fried, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>generally held to have a shrimpy, nutty taste. I've read

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<v Speaker 2>elsewhere that fresh cicadas have kind of a buttery flavor.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't really speak to this myself, as I've never

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<v Speaker 2>consumed circadas. I have not had the opportunity to do.

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<v Speaker 2>But if the opportunity came up and with somebody who

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<v Speaker 2>knew what they were doing, yeah, I guess I would

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<v Speaker 2>try it. Why not.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not surprised that that fried is a common option

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<v Speaker 3>for people who don't already have cicadas as a major

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<v Speaker 3>part of their diet, because it just seems like, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you deep fry anything, and it makes it more more acceptable,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, like that's like the easy way to introduce

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<v Speaker 3>a new food stuff, and then maybe later you could

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<v Speaker 3>try try different preparation methods.

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<v Speaker 2>Now deep frying. Aside, they are apparently not only a

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<v Speaker 2>safe food but also pretty healthy. They're supposedly full of

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<v Speaker 2>any oxidants, full of protein essential amino acids. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean these this article in the Smithsonian, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>makes it sound like, yeah, if cicadas are on the menu,

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<v Speaker 2>give them a try, why not? And then you know,

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<v Speaker 2>around the world there are going to be these different

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<v Speaker 2>traditions for exactly how you cook them up and or

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<v Speaker 2>what exact seasoning, dipping, exhausces, et cetera might be utilized

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<v Speaker 2>alongside the cicadas. So again, if anyone out there has

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<v Speaker 2>personal experience with this, either you know, some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>like a modern culinary experience, or some sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, traditional cicada preparation, write in. We would love

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<v Speaker 2>to hear from you. All right now, we've already spoken

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<v Speaker 2>a bit about cicadas and mythologies, cicadas and philosophy, and

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<v Speaker 2>I have another fun example here of cicadas as a

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<v Speaker 2>as a teacher or a model for human and behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>I looked at several sources on this, but one of

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<v Speaker 2>the first ones I came across was an article this

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<v Speaker 2>posted on the website of Smithsonian National Museum of Asian

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<v Speaker 2>Art by Jan Stuart back in twenty sixteen. And Stuart

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<v Speaker 2>points out that you'll often find the symbol of the

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<v Speaker 2>golden cicada on the headgear of rulers and nobles in

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<v Speaker 2>Chinese antiquity, and here they would signify modesty, refinement, and awareness.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that awareness is in part due to,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, the prominent eyes on the cicada, which are

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<v Speaker 2>featured in the artifact Joe. I've included an image of

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<v Speaker 2>one of these cicada plaques and numerous examples of these

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<v Speaker 2>have been found from this time period in China. This

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<v Speaker 2>is like golden bronze, I believe. But you can see

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<v Speaker 2>the cicada motif there in the center.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely. Yeah. So we see a big emphasis on the eyes.

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<v Speaker 3>They're rendered as huge. You see a kind of a

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<v Speaker 3>shortened version of the body with these kind of round

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<v Speaker 3>oval wings. And then are these bent lines up above

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<v Speaker 3>the head? Are those supposed to be legs?

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<v Speaker 2>I believe?

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, yeah, it's a very elegant design. It's also ornate,

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<v Speaker 3>like it's busy. There's a lot going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now this would be from I believe the third

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<v Speaker 2>to fourth century, and Stuart points out that this is

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of this is based on the idea that

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<v Speaker 2>the cicada was understood to live high in the trees,

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<v Speaker 2>privy to great views and a lofty existence where it

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<v Speaker 2>was thought to subsist entirely upon the dew. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a it's a creature of vision, a creature of pure diet.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's it's not eating a bunch of junk,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just eating the dew itself, right, or that's the belief.

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<v Speaker 2>And again lofty, and it has this great view of

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<v Speaker 2>everything around it. It's very aware of its surroundings. And

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<v Speaker 2>to a certain extent this is true, not that the

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<v Speaker 2>dow part per se, but the part about cicadas having

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<v Speaker 2>excellent vision.

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<v Speaker 3>So having a liquid diet. I mean it might not

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<v Speaker 3>be do but the you know, the ones under the

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<v Speaker 3>ground they feed off of the rude xylum, and then

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<v Speaker 3>the ones above ground they still just feed off of

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<v Speaker 3>the plant juices from inside the stems.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's a certain amount of I think accurate

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<v Speaker 2>observation wrapped up in this idea. And you see this

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<v Speaker 2>referenced in various forms, but one that I that I

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<v Speaker 2>ran across that I thought was really needed is this

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<v Speaker 2>poem Owed to a Cicada. This is by Kauji, who

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<v Speaker 2>lived one two through two thirty two. This was a

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<v Speaker 2>poet and calligrapher. And there's an extended part of this

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<v Speaker 2>poem there about the cicadas. I'm just going to read

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<v Speaker 2>a part of it. The cicada's nobility is hidden in

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<v Speaker 2>the darkest shadows, under the dazzling sunlight of midsummer. It

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<v Speaker 2>roams the fragrant forest, not seeking prestige and having few desires,

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<v Speaker 2>humming with contentment alone. Its calls, ring out, piercing, lingering,

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<v Speaker 2>like the unwavering hearts of virtuous men, benevolent and kind.

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<v Speaker 2>It does not eat, asking nothing of other creatures. It

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<v Speaker 2>purchases high above all and looks down, only drinking the

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<v Speaker 2>freshest dew. Hidden among dense mulberry leaves and sheltered from

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<v Speaker 2>the heat, it sings with joy.

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<v Speaker 3>Now there are some differences, but it's interesting what this

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<v Speaker 3>has in common with the vision of cicadas propounded by

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<v Speaker 3>Socrates and the Platonic dialogue that we talked about in

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<v Speaker 3>the last episode, the idea that they do not eat,

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<v Speaker 3>they only sing, and portraying them as kind of an

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<v Speaker 3>ally of the heavens or as like a holy creature

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<v Speaker 3>in a way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think it does. But I also have

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<v Speaker 2>to note that this poem ends up taking kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a I don't know if it's a darker turn, but

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<v Speaker 2>it ends up going in an interesting direction because in

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<v Speaker 2>full it stresses that, first of all, rulers of the

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<v Speaker 2>world should strive to be like the cicada. Again, these

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<v Speaker 2>are noble virtues, but the poem also stresses that the

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<v Speaker 2>cicada is a creature with many enemies, and it has

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<v Speaker 2>a very fixed time upon the summer Earth, with lines

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<v Speaker 2>like to escape all these dangers and avoid capture, it

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<v Speaker 2>flees to the Grand Palace, and that as it perceives

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<v Speaker 2>its many threats and tries to escape them, quote, it

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<v Speaker 2>succeeds only in tightening its bonds and thus foresees its end.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's that kind of nobility that you see in

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<v Speaker 3>some characters in art. That's a kind of a nobility

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<v Speaker 3>in its fragility. It's a doomed nobility.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's worth noting that kylege Hear himself was

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<v Speaker 2>apparently something of a political prisoner. He was ostracized from

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<v Speaker 2>political power, so you know, perhaps he's he's channeling. It's

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<v Speaker 2>my understanding, he's channeling a certain amount of that understanding

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<v Speaker 2>of power and politics and life here now. Stuart also

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<v Speaker 2>outlines that the Cicada was heavily associated with resurrection as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And these ideas go back pretty long ways, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think it makes sense given the life cycle. As we've discussed,

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<v Speaker 2>these are creatures that emerge from the earth, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>shed in their dark earth and skins, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>climb out, they re emerge, They're reborn from their own

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<v Speaker 2>kind of dead flesh and then take to the skies.

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<v Speaker 2>And in Chinese traditions, this was interpreted as a symbolic

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<v Speaker 2>for the transference of the soul after death into a

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<v Speaker 2>more transcendent realm. As such, during the Han dynasty, jade

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<v Speaker 2>amulets in the shape of cicadas were apparently placed on

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<v Speaker 2>the tongues of the deceased, and I included an example

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<v Speaker 2>of one of these for you here, Joe.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's interesting how it sort of looks like depictions

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<v Speaker 3>of a tongue, like the wings come together and create

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<v Speaker 3>the folds that is often represented going down the middle

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<v Speaker 3>of a tongue.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the jade is key here as well. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>it was the most valued of stones through much of

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<v Speaker 2>Chinese history, representing purity and indestructibility, and so it was

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<v Speaker 2>widely used in both decorative and ritual objects. And of

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<v Speaker 2>course I think from like a modern tie in, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't help but think about the moths and the

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<v Speaker 2>silence of the lambs and the death said moths placed

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<v Speaker 2>in the mouth or throat. And then there was also

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<v Speaker 2>a tradition in ancient Egypt for some time where you

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<v Speaker 2>would have a golden tongue amulet placed in the mouth

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<v Speaker 2>of the deceased, supposedly so they could speak when summoned

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<v Speaker 2>before the court of Osiris in the afterlife. But anyway,

0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 2>back to Chinese tradition. Stewart also shares a fourth century

0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.480
<v Speaker 2>BCE Dallas scholar Jong Za covered this in his writing,

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.960
<v Speaker 2>wrote about the Cicada. And I read his writing on

0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 2>this in full and translation elsewhere, and I'm going to

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.640
<v Speaker 2>summarize it here. Basically plays out as follows. So Jongsa

0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.679
<v Speaker 2>is walking in the forest when he spots a strange

0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.679
<v Speaker 2>bird in the sky. It has large wings, it's kind

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 2>of awkward flying around, it has big eyes. He hasn't

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>really seen this kind of bird before, so curious, he

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.000
<v Speaker 2>stalks up to where the bird is perched in a tree,

0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.640
<v Speaker 2>and hey, he has his sling shot on him, so

0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 2>why not take a shot at the bird? Right? So

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.679
<v Speaker 2>he draws in, you know, I mean, it's like, I

0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know if he's necessarily, you know, looking to eat

0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.679
<v Speaker 2>the bird, or it's about studying the specimen more, but

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:22.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, at any rate, it's what he does. He

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 2>gets off the sling all right, and the bird doesn't

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 2>seem to notice him, so all the better. This is

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 2>going to be an easy bird to pick off. But

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 2>as he creeps closer, he notices something there in the tree.

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 2>There's a mantis stalking an oblivious cicada about to strike.

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 2>And equally oblivious, the mantis is being stalked by this

0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.400
<v Speaker 2>strange bird. And oh yeah, and so he and here,

0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.679
<v Speaker 2>of course is our Dalis scholar stalking that bird. And

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 2>so he stops at this point and he lowers his sling.

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 2>He feels that the dow is revealed in this scenario,

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 2>and he leaves the bird alone.

0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.199
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I wondered if it was going to end with

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.480
<v Speaker 3>him like looking over his own shoulder, like, what's stalking me?

0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Essentially, I mean, that's essentially the thought. And Stuart points

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.760
<v Speaker 2>out that there is a common Chinese saying based on

0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.880
<v Speaker 2>this quote. As the mantis catches the cicada, the jay

0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.440
<v Speaker 2>is just behind, so you know, it's kind of there's

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 2>always a bigger fish right right, And indeed, look over

0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 2>your shoulder before you you take advantage of the oblivious

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 2>nature of the birth. Now cicadas are invoked elsewhere in

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Chinese culture, is pointed out by Hayan Lee, a professor

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 2>of East Asian languages and cultures and of Comparative Literature

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>at Stanford University, cited in a twenty twenty one m

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 2>PR article brewed ten is back or brood x is

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 2>back if you'd rather buy Anita Ollaby, and in this

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 2>one point out that in the sixth century military text

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 2>thirty six Stratagems, one of the strategies outlined is shed

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 2>your skin like the Golden Cicada, which entails creating a

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>decoy by which to escape from an overwhelming or more

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 2>powerful enemy. So I looked up the translation of the

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 2>text here, and in translation, it says, when you are

0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 2>in danger of being defeated and your only chance is

0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>to escape and regroup, then create an illusion. While the

0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.440
<v Speaker 2>enemy's attention is focused on this artifice, secretly remove your men,

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.480
<v Speaker 2>leaving behind only the facade of your presence.

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 3>Ah okay, So maybe if you're hiding down in a

0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.960
<v Speaker 3>bunch of earthworks or something, you simulate activity still going

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.480
<v Speaker 3>on there, put up some flags and stuff while you're evacuating.

0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which you know, this is not really part of

0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.080
<v Speaker 2>what's going on with the cicada per se. It's not

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 2>doing this to distract predators. But on the other hand,

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 2>it does kind of match up with I think with

0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 2>our experience of cicadas, often is the case where we

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 2>venture outside and we see something, hope, there's something there

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 2>that wasn't there before. It is the cicada's shell. It is,

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.680
<v Speaker 2>but where's the cicada that emerged? It is nowhere to

0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.760
<v Speaker 2>be seen. It has moved on. Though you do get

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.440
<v Speaker 2>the rare occurrence too of finding both shell and emergent cicada,

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 2>and that is also magical. But sometimes I can see

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 2>where it might seem as if, oh, I'm looking at

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.120
<v Speaker 2>the wrong thing. I'm looking at the empty shell. The

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 2>tasty cicada has flown off.

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it got away from me now.

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.640
<v Speaker 2>I was also looking at traditions of the cicada in

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Japan and this was I found this pretty interesting. There

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 2>are a couple of different ways to refer to cicadas

0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 2>in Japanese. There's a there's semi, which I think is

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 2>the main word for cicada. But then there's also this

0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 2>name that is like kana kana, and this is on

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 2>a monopa. This is a This is a name that

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.200
<v Speaker 2>is supposed to sound more or less like the sound

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.720
<v Speaker 2>that the the howling, the screeching of the cicadas in

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:07.000
<v Speaker 2>their tree. And more to the point, I was reading

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.439
<v Speaker 2>about this in several different sources that this sound, the

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 2>sound of the cicadas, is in Japanese traditions often associated

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:22.160
<v Speaker 2>with melancholy summer vibes, so essentially that summertime sadness, if

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 2>you will, and it's it's referenced, you know, throughout various

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>examples of Japanese poetry, but also in contemporary pop culture works.

0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 2>They're also associated with this concept of mujo, the passing

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 2>nature of things. And so you see like these overlapping

0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.440
<v Speaker 2>ideas referenced in a lot of different Japanese works and

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:46.640
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of different poems.

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.879
<v Speaker 3>It's so interesting that you get such different associations with

0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:56.160
<v Speaker 3>these creatures. Some are melancholy versus sort of doomed nobility

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 3>versus the kind of care free, summer playful.

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 3>There's there's like such such different feelings about the same phenomenon.

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I I do feel like I get this

0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.760
<v Speaker 2>idea of cicadas as the soundtrack of summertime sadness, though,

0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, because I do associate it with like oppressive

0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 2>heat and like a really bright sun. You know, it's

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 2>like everything outside the house is trying to push you

0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.760
<v Speaker 2>into the house and maybe make you feel a little

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.159
<v Speaker 2>isolated or you're outside and you have no choice in

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>the matter, and it can be just a little bit overwhelming. Uh.

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.639
<v Speaker 2>And then you again compound that with the id like

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.240
<v Speaker 2>the knowledge of what the cicada is doing, that it

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>has emerged for this very brief time, and that they're

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 2>all gonna die, but you know they're not gonna they're

0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 2>they're not going to be around for the for the

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:44.679
<v Speaker 2>next summer.

0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.879
<v Speaker 3>I guess I don't. It would depend also on like

0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.399
<v Speaker 3>what types of activities you do culturally in the summertime.

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 3>I associate summertime sadness with like having to say bye

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 3>to your friends from camp who you're not going to

0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 3>see again for a long time.

0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's kind of like that was is.

0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.440
<v Speaker 2>You're not going to see thea again. You'll see different ones,

0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.199
<v Speaker 2>but you're gonna have to wait a bit. Anyway, I

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.840
<v Speaker 2>wanted to read a couple of examples of Japanese poetry

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.399
<v Speaker 2>concerning cicadas in translation, of course. This first one is

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 2>by Japanese edo poet Matsuo Basho, and it just goes

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.439
<v Speaker 2>as follows, the cry of the cicada gives us no

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.359
<v Speaker 2>sign that presently they will die straight into the point.

0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 2>I like it, you know, And again it is one

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.240
<v Speaker 2>of the interesting things about like there, and in a

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.639
<v Speaker 2>way it's inspiring. Right they are living life to the

0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 2>absolute fullest.

0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:33.880
<v Speaker 3>They are.

0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.040
<v Speaker 2>They are going about it, but they do not have

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 2>lung in which to do it.

0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.119
<v Speaker 3>Yolo, as they say.

0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, here's another one. This one is apparently by eighteenth

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.399
<v Speaker 2>century samurai poet Yo Koi Yayu. And this one I

0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.639
<v Speaker 2>got off of the website Tofu Gou dot com in

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 2>an article titled the Cicada's Song Japan's Summer Soundtrack from

0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 2>twenty fourteen. It contains multiple examples of this sort of thing.

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 2>But I always say, and by this particular example that

0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:07.679
<v Speaker 2>goes as follows. Again, the Japanese word semi is is

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 2>what this means. Cicada methinks that SIMI sits and sings

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.000
<v Speaker 2>by his former body, chanting the funeral service over his

0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:21.159
<v Speaker 2>own dead self. WHOA yeah, which is great because it

0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 2>brings to mind, you know, the of course, the emergence,

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.840
<v Speaker 2>the shedding of the old skin, the nearness of its demise,

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 2>but also like the richness of its sound, that you

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.199
<v Speaker 2>could associate with various emotions and in this case, like

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.520
<v Speaker 2>think of it as kind of a funeral dirge. Yeah,

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I like this one. And there are other examples too,

0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.880
<v Speaker 2>particularly in this article, you know, where it's like there's

0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.640
<v Speaker 2>it's not so much a contemplation of the cicada's sorrow

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.360
<v Speaker 2>or you know, it's forthcoming demise, but using it as

0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 2>a metaphor using it alongside considerations of more you know,

0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.119
<v Speaker 2>human centric feelings of say, heart break and so forth.

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.359
<v Speaker 3>Oh well, that connects to something I'm going to get

0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.120
<v Speaker 3>into in a few minutes here, because there are more

0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.160
<v Speaker 3>tragic use of the cicada as an image of tragedy

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 3>to come.

0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.879
<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, I'd love to hear other examples of

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Japanese literature and you know, in cinnamon and pop culture

0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.720
<v Speaker 2>that invoked the cicada. I think I'm going to be

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.560
<v Speaker 2>extra alert for it now, engaging with Japanese cinema and

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.879
<v Speaker 2>so forth. Another idea I ran across. And first of all,

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.399
<v Speaker 2>I should point out that that Japanese traditions also inherit

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.399
<v Speaker 2>some various Chinese ideas about cicadas. You know, some of

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.560
<v Speaker 2>these various virtues that we already talked about including the

0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 2>idea that not only is the cicada virtuous because you

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>know it can see far, and it's up in the

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:48.200
<v Speaker 2>trees and it drinks dew, but also it emerges at

0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.720
<v Speaker 2>fixed and regular times, so it is faithful. You know,

0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.480
<v Speaker 2>it is sincere. You know, other people in your life

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.440
<v Speaker 2>are the things in your life. There may be uncertainty

0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 2>to them, but you can count on the cicadas. They

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:00.440
<v Speaker 2>always come.

0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.960
<v Speaker 3>Well said, well, are you ready to get into some

0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 3>other cicada stuff?

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Let's do it.

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.919
<v Speaker 3>So in the previous episode, I mentioned an ancient Greek

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.280
<v Speaker 3>story about the mythological origins of cicadas, which is told

0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.679
<v Speaker 3>by Socrates in the Platonic dialogue known as the fe Dress.

0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:24.280
<v Speaker 3>And according to that story, cicadas were once humans like us,

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.760
<v Speaker 3>but they lived at a time before the muses had

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 3>introduced song and music to the world. And the story

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 3>goes once these people encountered music, they were so enraptured

0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.920
<v Speaker 3>by it that they spent every moment of their lives

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.199
<v Speaker 3>singing and listening to music, and not even stopping to

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.040
<v Speaker 3>eat or drink until they finally sang themselves to death.

0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.280
<v Speaker 3>But the muses took pity on them and allowed them

0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:54.000
<v Speaker 3>to be reincarnated as cicadas, who would still, according to

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 3>the understanding of some ancient Greeks, go on singing their

0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.600
<v Speaker 3>entire lives and never stop to eat or drink. And

0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.919
<v Speaker 3>Socrates also says in the story that cicadas are the

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 3>earthly informers for the muses, so they kind of spy

0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:11.320
<v Speaker 3>on us and report back whether we're doing things that

0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 3>honor the muses or not. So that was an interesting view.

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 3>But this, it turns out, is not the only famous

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.480
<v Speaker 3>story about cicadas tracing back to ancient Greek and other

0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 3>classical sources. So I collected a couple of examples in

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 3>a reference text called the Book of Greek and Roman

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.439
<v Speaker 3>Folk Tales, Legends and Myths. This is edited by the

0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 3>classicist William Hansen from Princeton University Press, twenty seventeen. And

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.560
<v Speaker 3>this led me to a couple of great examples. The

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 3>first one I want to mention is the story of

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 3>the great singer UniMas and the Cicada, as told by

0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:54.719
<v Speaker 3>the ancient Greek author Strebo, who lived from about sixty

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.080
<v Speaker 3>four BCE to twenty four CE in the Roman Empire.

0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 3>And this was in Strebo's book geography, as you might

0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:05.280
<v Speaker 3>guess from its inclusion in a book about geography. This

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:08.960
<v Speaker 3>story comes in the context of Strabo talking about some

0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:13.399
<v Speaker 3>natural features of the land and landmarks. Specifically, he's talking

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:18.120
<v Speaker 3>about a river called Halix, which he says separates two

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:23.160
<v Speaker 3>lands called Region and Locris, and he says it exits

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.240
<v Speaker 3>through a deep ravine, and then Strebo says, there is

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.960
<v Speaker 3>an odd thing about the cicadas here on the two

0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:33.840
<v Speaker 3>sides of the river Halix. The ones on one bank

0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 3>of the river make a song. They sing like any

0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:41.120
<v Speaker 3>other cicadas, but the cicadas on the opposite bank are silent.

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:44.480
<v Speaker 3>And he says that people have guessed that the reason

0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.200
<v Speaker 3>for this is that the Locrian bank, where the cicadas

0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:52.160
<v Speaker 3>are loud, is dry and sun baked, so the cicadas

0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:55.119
<v Speaker 3>there have dry membranes that they can rattle with ease,

0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.399
<v Speaker 3>whereas on the other bank, the other bank is in

0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:00.679
<v Speaker 3>the shade. And I'm not sure if he means the

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.280
<v Speaker 3>shade of the ravine or if it's more shaded by foliage,

0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:06.959
<v Speaker 3>but the other side is shady, and he says because

0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:10.119
<v Speaker 3>it's in the shade, people believe that quote. The cicadas

0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:14.800
<v Speaker 3>are moist with dew and cannot expand their membranes hated

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 3>when that happens, And so I got really curious, is

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 3>what Strabo's talking about here? Based on reality? I looked

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:25.359
<v Speaker 3>around to see if I could find any entomologists in

0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:29.080
<v Speaker 3>the present day offering informed commentary on this observation, but

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:32.439
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't really find anything solid. The closest I found

0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 3>to a direct reference was a twentieth century Strabo translator

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:40.280
<v Speaker 3>talking about how he could attest personally that the cicadas

0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:42.879
<v Speaker 3>of southern Italy, where I believe this is supposed to

0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.400
<v Speaker 3>take place, are unusual. But that's not all that helpful,

0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:49.000
<v Speaker 3>So I went to see what I could piece together

0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.240
<v Speaker 3>on my own. So my big question, a big way

0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 3>to check the plausibility of this claim, is to ask,

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 3>are there actually today any known examples of a specie

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 3>or a population within a species of totally silent cicadas

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:07.920
<v Speaker 3>like the ones from the region side of the river. Now,

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:11.440
<v Speaker 3>if you ask the question, are there any like actually

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 3>truly completely silent cicadas? I could not find any examples

0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:21.680
<v Speaker 3>of that. But while most cicadas have males that emit

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:25.520
<v Speaker 3>these loud, obvious mating signals, there are in fact a

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:30.399
<v Speaker 3>few species that are sometimes referred to as mute cicadas, which,

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.159
<v Speaker 3>while not actually mute, to make a sound that is

0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 3>not at all similar to the songs produced by the

0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:41.920
<v Speaker 3>timbal organs in most male cicadas. So here I'm going

0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:45.919
<v Speaker 3>to refer to a paper by chanching Low, Songwei and

0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:50.399
<v Speaker 3>Christian Nonsen, and it's called how do Mute Cicadas Produce

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.480
<v Speaker 3>their calling Songs? This was published in Plus one in

0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:58.360
<v Speaker 3>twenty fifteen, and again the researchers here were Christian Nonsen

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:03.000
<v Speaker 3>and entomologist affiliate with UC Davis, and Chuan ching Low

0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:07.959
<v Speaker 3>and Songwei from the Northwest anf University in China. And

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:12.120
<v Speaker 3>this paper focuses on a genus of cicadas known as Corenia,

0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:17.359
<v Speaker 3>containing five species found in China, Vietnam and Burma. And

0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:20.359
<v Speaker 3>it turns out that species within this genus are not

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 3>able to make sounds with a timble mechanism. Remember from

0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.399
<v Speaker 3>part one of our series here we talked about the

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 3>timble organ. The timble is an organ that is used

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.640
<v Speaker 3>by most male cicadas to make sounds, and the timbles

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.600
<v Speaker 3>are rigid corrugated membranes on the sides of the abdomen

0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:40.760
<v Speaker 3>that are connected to an internal muscle, and the internal

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:45.879
<v Speaker 3>muscle flexes and relaxes rapidly to collapse the membrane and

0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.919
<v Speaker 3>then allow it to kind of snap back into place.

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.439
<v Speaker 3>And this rapid collapsing and snapping back sort of the

0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:55.520
<v Speaker 3>buckling and snapping, produces the whirr and the drone that

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:59.840
<v Speaker 3>we associate with cicadas. But Krenia cicadas do not have

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 3>functional timbal organs, which is why they are called mute cicadas. However,

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:09.400
<v Speaker 3>they are not completely mute. They do make sounds, and

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:14.720
<v Speaker 3>this paper investigates how Now in the introduction to this paper,

0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:18.440
<v Speaker 3>there's a really interesting fact that the authors discuss as

0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:21.480
<v Speaker 3>to the backstory of this investigation. I just want to

0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:26.200
<v Speaker 3>read from their introduction quote. Recently, Way at All reported

0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:31.480
<v Speaker 3>sound production in Corenia chauma and discovered that this species

0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:36.080
<v Speaker 3>exhibited an atypical behavior, i e. The male adults can

0:28:36.160 --> 0:28:40.640
<v Speaker 3>be easily attracted to sounds produced by clapping of hands,

0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 3>knocking of bamboo sticks, breaking of twigs, and chopping of wood. Weird. Okay,

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:50.960
<v Speaker 3>so you might be chopping on a log, you might

0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:53.880
<v Speaker 3>be clapping, you might be knocking some bamboo together and

0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 3>suddenly the cicadas come running. They like this. It attracts

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 3>them very odd So anyway, they say that sound production

0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 3>in this genus had not been deeply investigated until this paper.

0:29:07.240 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 3>So the authors here studied the species Carrenia keela tata

0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:15.960
<v Speaker 3>to discover that they do make a to my ears

0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:20.720
<v Speaker 3>rather inconspicuous sound. It's a clicking sound that they make

0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 3>by knocking two parts of their outer bodies together. So

0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:28.800
<v Speaker 3>this is not an example of stridulation, which a lot

0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 3>of insects use. Stridulation again, is rubbing parts of the

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 3>body together, often one part that's kind of ridged like

0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:38.040
<v Speaker 3>a comb, and another part that's just sort of a

0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 3>flat scraper thing that scrapes the teeth of the comb.

0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:44.000
<v Speaker 3>This is called a file and scraper system. They do

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 3>not use stridulation like that. Instead, what they produce is

0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:51.080
<v Speaker 3>an impact sound, more like a drum beat, which they

0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:54.360
<v Speaker 3>make by banging the leading edge of the fore wing,

0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 3>which is known as the costa, against a hard plate

0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:02.480
<v Speaker 3>on the outside of the body, known as as an operculum.

0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:06.040
<v Speaker 3>So they're drumming on their own outer shells with their wings,

0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:10.280
<v Speaker 3>and this sound is indeed audible to human ears. But Robi,

0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 3>I let you listen to a sample of it before

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 3>we recorded here, and I was listening to it myself,

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 3>and I think if I were walking through a forest

0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 3>and I heard this sound, I might well not even

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 3>attribute it to an insect. And if I did attribute

0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 3>it to an insect, I might not likely think of

0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 3>it as a cicada sound. It's sort of a clicking

0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 3>or a snapping that could be anything in the environment.

0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:37.840
<v Speaker 3>Breaking of a twig, could be wood creaking in the wind.

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 3>It could be a pebble falling. It just doesn't seem

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:42.680
<v Speaker 3>to me like it would really stand out in a

0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:43.760
<v Speaker 3>riverside grove.

0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I agree, it doesn't quite register to me as

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:51.280
<v Speaker 2>it instantly as being an insect noise or even another

0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 2>animal sound. So yeah, it's interesting. I could see where

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:59.040
<v Speaker 2>you might even have sort of maybe supernatural interpretations of

0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 2>the noise at first, like, well, you know, what is that?

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.400
<v Speaker 2>What is that? Are Is there some sort of drumming

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:06.920
<v Speaker 2>going on amid the invisible folk? I don't know?

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:10.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, anyway, So given this, I was wondering, is

0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:13.840
<v Speaker 3>it possible that Strabo's story here has a basis in

0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:16.880
<v Speaker 3>fact that the cicadas on the two sides of the

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 3>river are different. Maybe on the Lockers side they're loud,

0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:23.080
<v Speaker 3>they sound like cicada's normally sound. But what if there

0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 3>were cicadas on the region side of the river Helix

0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:30.320
<v Speaker 3>that were known to be silent, not because they were

0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 3>actually silent, but because they didn't make the sounds we

0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:37.440
<v Speaker 3>associate with cicadas. What if they were clicking or something

0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 3>like that. Now, I want to be clear, this is

0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:43.200
<v Speaker 3>pure speculation on my part because I look to see

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.000
<v Speaker 3>again if entomologists had commented to this effect about this

0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:50.400
<v Speaker 3>historical passage, and I didn't come across anything. So I

0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 3>don't know, But I at least do know that there

0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:55.720
<v Speaker 3>are some species of cicadas that don't make the worrying

0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:58.400
<v Speaker 3>sound we think of. They make some other kind of sound,

0:31:58.520 --> 0:32:02.800
<v Speaker 3>like a sort of incanspicuous click. And the Krenia cicadas

0:32:02.800 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 3>are not the only ones. Now, remember, if there were

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 3>so called mute cicadas in this region in the ancient Mediterranean,

0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:13.959
<v Speaker 3>that seems unlikely they would have been the Karnia genus

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 3>because that genus is native to East and Southeast Asia.

0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 3>But there are other so called mute cicadas. I was

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.520
<v Speaker 3>looking for examples of them. The plus one paper mentions

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 3>four other genera of cicadas that contain species without timbal organs.

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:37.440
<v Speaker 3>It mentions Platypedia, neo, Platypedia maroboduus, and Lemmo tialna. And

0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:39.480
<v Speaker 3>so I was looking these genera up, it seems like

0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:41.760
<v Speaker 3>most of the ones where I could get information about

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 3>where they were located, more of them were centered around

0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 3>North America, but some more more global species. So nothing solid.

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 3>But there are a number of cicada species known to be,

0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:55.920
<v Speaker 3>if not mute, at least incapable of typical cicada timbal sounds,

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 3>and this could be mistaken for muteness. So I wonder

0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:03.080
<v Speaker 3>if if such a species were found on the region

0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:05.440
<v Speaker 3>side of the river, and if they were mistaken by

0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:07.520
<v Speaker 3>the ancients for silent insects.

0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this sounds entirely plausible to me that you could

0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:16.080
<v Speaker 2>have had some species like this that is not mute,

0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 2>but it's either making a sound that we don't associate

0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:21.320
<v Speaker 2>with cicadas or one that is, you know, maybe out

0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:25.280
<v Speaker 2>of register of human hearing. So yeah, absolutely plausible.

0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Listeners, if you have anything to add to this, please

0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.880
<v Speaker 3>write in. But anyway, I wanted to continue with Strabo's

0:33:30.880 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 3>account here because so it just starts off with the

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.440
<v Speaker 3>two different kinds of cicadas on the two banks of

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:41.000
<v Speaker 3>the river, but this leads into Strabo's account of UniMas

0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:44.959
<v Speaker 3>and the cicada. So I'm going to read from Strabo's geography,

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:47.840
<v Speaker 3>but a couple of things to know for context. In

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 3>this passage, it makes reference to an object called a kithara,

0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:56.600
<v Speaker 3>which was a stringed instrument that people played in ancient Greece.

0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:00.680
<v Speaker 3>The etymological root of the word guitar actually the cathara.

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:05.200
<v Speaker 3>And it also makes reference to the Pythian Games, which

0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 3>were sort of like the Olympics, except they included both

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 3>athletic and artistic competitions. And while the ancient Olympic Games

0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:17.400
<v Speaker 3>were held at Olympia in honor of Zeus, the Pythian

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Games were held at Delphi in honor of Apollo. And

0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:23.799
<v Speaker 3>remember which of the regions had which cicadas. It was

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:27.520
<v Speaker 3>the cicadas of Locris that would sing and the cicadas

0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:31.520
<v Speaker 3>of region that were silent. So Strebo writes a statue

0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:35.480
<v Speaker 3>of UniMas, the singer and kathara player, with a cicada

0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:39.080
<v Speaker 3>sitting on his cathara used to be displayed in Locris.

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:45.080
<v Speaker 3>Timaios says that this man, UniMas, and Ariston of Region

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:48.879
<v Speaker 3>were once competing at the Pythian Games and got into

0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 3>a dispute about their respective lots. Ariston beseeched the Delphians

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:57.480
<v Speaker 3>to support him, seeing as his ancestors had belonged to

0:34:57.600 --> 0:35:01.160
<v Speaker 3>the god and their colony had been dis patched from Delphi,

0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 3>but UniMas declared that persons in whose land the cicadas,

0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 3>most sweet voiced of animals were mute, had no business

0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:14.560
<v Speaker 3>even participating in a voice competition. Ariston was nonetheless held

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:17.480
<v Speaker 3>in high regard and hoped for victory, but it was

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:21.319
<v Speaker 3>UniMas who won and dedicated in his own homeland the

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:25.160
<v Speaker 3>statue I mentioned. For during the contest, when one of

0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:29.400
<v Speaker 3>his strings broke, a cicada perched on his cathara and

0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:31.200
<v Speaker 3>supplied the missing note.

0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow again, it is so surprising how we can have

0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 2>such totally different cultural interpretations of the cicada. You know,

0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:44.480
<v Speaker 2>is it screeching madness that that maddens the ear? Or

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:47.720
<v Speaker 2>is it the sweet songs? Is it sent from the gods?

0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.240
<v Speaker 2>You know, Yeah, it's wonderful.

0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I will say that this story, I think

0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:57.120
<v Speaker 3>it's open to multiple interpretations, and it has been interpreted

0:35:57.160 --> 0:36:00.600
<v Speaker 3>in different ways over the years. So sort of like

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 3>the origin story told by Socrates, it portrays cicadas as

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:09.640
<v Speaker 3>fundamentally musical animals, musical beings, but also in this case

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:13.000
<v Speaker 3>they're kind of they're kind of belligerent, like they intervene

0:36:13.040 --> 0:36:16.839
<v Speaker 3>to take sides in a battle of the bands. And

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:20.200
<v Speaker 3>it's I think a little hard to discern the intended

0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:23.200
<v Speaker 3>meaning or moral here, assuming there is supposed to be one,

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:26.920
<v Speaker 3>because on one hand, I would think the snapping of

0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:31.080
<v Speaker 3>a string during a performance would indicate a kind of

0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 3>punishment by the fates for UniMas, I would think is

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.160
<v Speaker 3>sort of a payback for his haughtiness and hubris he's

0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:41.120
<v Speaker 3>insulting Ariston, you know. But then the insect intervenes to

0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:45.279
<v Speaker 3>supply the missing note, which seems like another divine intervention,

0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:47.760
<v Speaker 3>but in this case in the opposite direction in favor

0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:48.440
<v Speaker 3>of UniMas.

0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:52.280
<v Speaker 2>The infighting of the gods via insects.

0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, it doesn't supply that gloss in Strabo's

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:57.879
<v Speaker 3>telling here, but it does kind of remind me of

0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:01.000
<v Speaker 3>like in the Iliad, we have the gods intervening on

0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:04.120
<v Speaker 3>both sides of an issue, like in opposite directions.

0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:07.319
<v Speaker 2>You know, normally I take a very logical approach to

0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:09.640
<v Speaker 2>this sort of thing. But I'm just gonna go ahe

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:12.000
<v Speaker 2>and say it. I think this absolutely happened. Has written

0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:15.839
<v Speaker 2>this is one accurate and that we shouldn't question it.

0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:18.719
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's not actually all that implausible that a

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.960
<v Speaker 3>cicada lands on a lands on somebody's instrument makes a sound.

0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 3>Everybody would remember that.

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:28.160
<v Speaker 2>Not just any sound, the exact right sound. So I

0:37:28.200 --> 0:37:30.200
<v Speaker 2>think that's the really fun part of the story. And

0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:32.400
<v Speaker 2>again I don't question it at all. This absolutely happened.

0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Every every other story out there, every other myth in religion,

0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:38.600
<v Speaker 2>it's open to interpretation, and you're right to question it,

0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:40.080
<v Speaker 2>but not this one's good to go.

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:44.120
<v Speaker 3>I came across an interesting passage in another book that

0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:49.680
<v Speaker 3>was about Christian theologians reinterpreting this Greek tale to have

0:37:49.760 --> 0:37:52.719
<v Speaker 3>a different understanding of it. Specifically, I was looking at

0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:55.840
<v Speaker 3>a work called Music and Philosophy in the Roman Empire

0:37:56.000 --> 0:38:00.960
<v Speaker 3>by Pelosi and Petrucci, and the author of a passage

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:03.640
<v Speaker 3>of this book is talking about a work where the

0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:08.400
<v Speaker 3>early Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria is taking a bunch

0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:12.680
<v Speaker 3>of pagan myths and pagan stories and reinterpreting them to

0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:16.360
<v Speaker 3>have Christian morals. And so it's sort of in the

0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:21.080
<v Speaker 3>context of talking about these Christian church fathers and theologians

0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:24.720
<v Speaker 3>taking pagan myths and saying, yeah, this is actually good

0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:28.160
<v Speaker 3>and still instructive, but here's what it actually means to

0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 3>emphasize something about their view of the world. And in

0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:35.120
<v Speaker 3>Clement's retelling of the story, there's a difference that is

0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:39.319
<v Speaker 3>subtle but important, And Clement's version is that it is

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:43.960
<v Speaker 3>not that the Cicada is so enchanted by Unimas's beautiful

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:46.759
<v Speaker 3>song and thus comes to help him in a time

0:38:46.800 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 3>of need. This version of the story that serves to

0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 3>emphasize Eunomas's virtue as a singer. It's like, you know,

0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:57.720
<v Speaker 3>a story about a great virtuous person. Instead, Clement's retelling

0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:02.440
<v Speaker 3>emphasizes that it is UniMas who attunes himself to the

0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:06.720
<v Speaker 3>perfect natural song of the cicada. So in Clement's telling,

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:10.200
<v Speaker 3>it's not that the Cicada humbles itself to UniMas sort

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:13.680
<v Speaker 3>of in awe of his greatness, but that UniMas humbles

0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:18.080
<v Speaker 3>himself to the cicada, as we must humble ourselves into

0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:20.120
<v Speaker 3>tune to the music of God's word.

0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.239
<v Speaker 2>All right, yeah, I mean, all in all, that's kind

0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:26.239
<v Speaker 2>of a that's a nice interpretation, right, It's like your

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.680
<v Speaker 2>music's not about you, it's about like getting in harmony

0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.440
<v Speaker 2>with at the very least existence, right.

0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:34.879
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmmm. I mean for Clement, I think that had

0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:38.359
<v Speaker 3>a specific sectarian meaning, but yeah, more broadly, you could

0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 3>think about it as as singing together with nature. Who's

0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:44.520
<v Speaker 3>the person who needs to get in key? Is it

0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:46.440
<v Speaker 3>nature that needs to get in key with you? Or

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 3>do you need to get in key with nature?

0:39:48.360 --> 0:39:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Right? Right? Right? Instead of warping nature to your your

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.360
<v Speaker 2>own tastes and purposes, you're you're the one that's getting

0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:55.680
<v Speaker 2>in tune with everything else. Se.

0:40:05.560 --> 0:40:09.960
<v Speaker 3>So there's another famous reference to cicadas in classical Greek literature,

0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:14.359
<v Speaker 3>and it is in the Esopic fable, more widely known

0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:18.640
<v Speaker 3>as the Ant and the grasshopper. But as with the

0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:21.040
<v Speaker 3>example from Plato that we talked about last time, the

0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 3>word that used to be translated as grasshopper or sometimes

0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:28.600
<v Speaker 3>cricket is now generally understood as a reference to cicadas.

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.239
<v Speaker 3>It seems this is the case in a bunch of

0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.360
<v Speaker 3>ancient Greek and Roman literature. There are a lot of

0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:38.320
<v Speaker 3>things that, for the longest time in English said cricket, locust, grasshopper, whatever,

0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:42.080
<v Speaker 3>it often meant cicadas. So this famous ancient story is

0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.680
<v Speaker 3>more accurately the ant and the cicada. Now, as with

0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:49.400
<v Speaker 3>many esopic tales, it is thought to originate in oral traditions,

0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:53.080
<v Speaker 3>and it appears in different forms in different texts traditions.

0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:56.120
<v Speaker 3>There's not like one original text form of it. You

0:40:56.520 --> 0:40:59.320
<v Speaker 3>different ancient authors who put down versions of this tale.

0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.240
<v Speaker 3>And the book edited by William Hanson that I mentioned earlier,

0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:07.359
<v Speaker 3>it presents it as follows. Cold and wintry weather came

0:41:07.440 --> 0:41:11.080
<v Speaker 3>down from Olympus. The ant had collected a lot of

0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:14.600
<v Speaker 3>food during harvest time, storing it in its house, But

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:18.440
<v Speaker 3>the cicada went into its hole and was panting from hunger.

0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:23.360
<v Speaker 3>Gripped by starvation in the considerable cold. The cicada asked

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 3>the ant to share its food in order that the

0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:29.200
<v Speaker 3>cicada too might eat some wheat and be saved from starvation.

0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:32.879
<v Speaker 3>But the ant asked, where were you in summer? Why

0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 3>didn't you collect food during harvest time? The cicada answered,

0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:40.120
<v Speaker 3>I was singing and giving pleasure to the wayfarers. The

0:41:40.200 --> 0:41:44.360
<v Speaker 3>ant showered it with laughter, saying, then in winter dance.

0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:48.359
<v Speaker 3>The tale teaches us that nothing is more important than

0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:51.800
<v Speaker 3>to give thought to necessary provisions, and not to devote

0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:54.680
<v Speaker 3>one's leisure time to pleasure and revelry.

0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, so this time the cicada is the dummy, right.

0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, this time the cicada is the fool. Well, actually,

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:06.080
<v Speaker 3>so it's interesting. This is most often taken as a

0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:09.400
<v Speaker 3>tale illustrating the value of hard work and denouncing the

0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:13.279
<v Speaker 3>cicada for its frivolity, for its failure to prepare for

0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:16.920
<v Speaker 3>the future. So yes, the most common interpretation is that

0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:21.359
<v Speaker 3>the cicada is the fool. But not just recently, even

0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:25.240
<v Speaker 3>going back to ancient times, there have been counter interpretations

0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 3>and sort of inverted variants of the story, in some

0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:32.839
<v Speaker 3>cases castigating the ant for its greed or in some

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:36.200
<v Speaker 3>cases for its lack of charity, or pointing out good

0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:39.400
<v Speaker 3>things about the cicada. After all, even the classic version

0:42:39.400 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 3>of the story I just mentioned has the cicada not

0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 3>merely seeking its own enjoyment in the summer. It spends

0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:50.279
<v Speaker 3>the summer singing to wayfarers and giving them pleasure in

0:42:50.320 --> 0:42:53.400
<v Speaker 3>its song. And this emphasizes something that came up in

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:56.759
<v Speaker 3>our discussion of the feedress. Socrates talks about this, but

0:42:56.840 --> 0:42:59.279
<v Speaker 3>it's also mentioned in an editor's note here. In the

0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Handsome book. Ancient Greek sources regularly indicate that the Greeks

0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:07.799
<v Speaker 3>were delighted by the singing of cicadas. They they thought

0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:09.720
<v Speaker 3>it was just great. They loved to sit and listen

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:13.799
<v Speaker 3>to them. It was wonderful entertainment. So the cicada was

0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:17.399
<v Speaker 3>giving two others of itself what it could give all

0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:21.240
<v Speaker 3>summer long, and then the ant would not later share

0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:24.800
<v Speaker 3>what it had gathered. And then some other tellings still

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:27.920
<v Speaker 3>emphasized that, hey, whatever the ant has gathered, it the

0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.800
<v Speaker 3>ant did not create, by the way, it simply raided

0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:34.839
<v Speaker 3>from its surroundings. So it's interesting. This is a more

0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:37.400
<v Speaker 3>complex tale than I remember from when I was a kid.

0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:40.080
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I encountered some version of it that was

0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:42.640
<v Speaker 3>just kind of like, yeah, basically like do your homework

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:45.920
<v Speaker 3>instead of playing outside. It's like, you know, think ahead.

0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 3>But but there I think there are actually more layers

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:49.319
<v Speaker 3>to it.

0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:51.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, now that you pointed out, I think this, yeah,

0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:54.640
<v Speaker 2>totally the case. I think I also grew up just

0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:58.640
<v Speaker 2>consuming the very sort of like capitalist version of it,

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:02.359
<v Speaker 2>where it's like, don't don't be a grasshopper, be an ant.

0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:04.160
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you look at it this way, it's like, well,

0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:08.960
<v Speaker 2>that ant sounds miserable, Like he's not dancing, he's not singing,

0:44:09.000 --> 0:44:11.200
<v Speaker 2>he's not enriching the world in any way. I guess,

0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:13.799
<v Speaker 2>you know he'll be fine through the winner, but come on,

0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:16.160
<v Speaker 2>what kind of life is he living? Also, he's a

0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:20.359
<v Speaker 2>weird aunt in that he's such an individualist and male,

0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:24.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess. And this, yeah, we're setting aside a lot

0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:26.960
<v Speaker 2>of biological realities to consider the moral here.

0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:30.360
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it should be that the cicada speaks to the

0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 3>ant colony as a whole, and the queen communicates back

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:34.720
<v Speaker 3>for it or something.

0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:36.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, there's a whole Pixar movie right here.

0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:41.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I do think the traditional understanding of the

0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:46.439
<v Speaker 3>esopic tale does match with like the origin story given

0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:49.320
<v Speaker 3>by Socrates and the Feederist dialogue, where in both cases

0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:53.160
<v Speaker 3>it's just like that the the cicada is a being

0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:56.800
<v Speaker 3>that is so enraptured with sort of the performance of

0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.440
<v Speaker 3>the moment, like it gets caught up in song and dance,

0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.360
<v Speaker 3>or well, in both cases, it gets caught up in

0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:05.279
<v Speaker 3>song and dance to the point that it is it

0:45:05.360 --> 0:45:08.440
<v Speaker 3>dies later or it cannot feed itself when winter comes.

0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It has a very short term view of life because

0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:15.520
<v Speaker 2>it's it's life is very short term at this stage. Yea,

0:45:16.280 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, there are different ways to interpret that. Does

0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:22.319
<v Speaker 2>it bring on feelings of, you know, vast summer melancholy

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:26.320
<v Speaker 2>or is there a little bit of you know, a

0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.359
<v Speaker 2>little bit of live live life to the fullest while

0:45:28.400 --> 0:45:30.160
<v Speaker 2>you got it sort of a vibe going on here.

0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's so many ways to interpret.

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:35.240
<v Speaker 3>It, though, if you want to keep pumping the metaphors there. Actually,

0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:39.640
<v Speaker 3>it's interesting that cicadas may have quite long lives in

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.840
<v Speaker 3>our underground stage before the part you even ever see es.

0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:45.480
<v Speaker 3>But with the periodical cicada some of the longest development

0:45:45.520 --> 0:45:47.120
<v Speaker 3>periods of any insect on Earth.

0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it would be more like saying, hey, Grandpa, why

0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.240
<v Speaker 2>don't you act your age instead of you know, writing

0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:55.200
<v Speaker 2>jet skis and going to Burning Man or whatever the

0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:58.279
<v Speaker 2>case may be, and Grandpa can rightly respond. It's like

0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:01.680
<v Speaker 2>I've done all the other stuff before, I've lived the

0:46:01.719 --> 0:46:04.959
<v Speaker 2>ant life before. Uh, this is this is my time

0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:06.680
<v Speaker 2>to shine one last time.

0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 3>Right, this is my short window of reproductive phase. Doesn't

0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:14.879
<v Speaker 3>really map onto human life.

0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.040
<v Speaker 2>But darn it, we will. We will make everything fit

0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:18.879
<v Speaker 2>one way or another. That's that's how that's how we

0:46:19.000 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 2>use animals as ideas. Uh but uh, yeah, I mean

0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:25.720
<v Speaker 2>that's I think it's the remarkable thing about the cicada.

0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:29.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's it's life cycle and biology is so

0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:34.759
<v Speaker 2>unique and fascinating, and then it's it's uniqueness, you know,

0:46:34.880 --> 0:46:37.920
<v Speaker 2>begs for some sort of metaphoric usage, you know, like

0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 2>we we we have to see ourselves. We try to

0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:42.640
<v Speaker 2>see ourselves in any animal just to see what we

0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:44.920
<v Speaker 2>can get out of it. Right, And there's a lot

0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to play with there with the life cycle of the cicada.

0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:50.359
<v Speaker 3>No doubt. All Right, is it time? Is it time

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:52.239
<v Speaker 3>to go underground? And hope we don't pick up any

0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:56.000
<v Speaker 3>massive sporaes on the way. Is that when you're coming up.

0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:59.480
<v Speaker 2>That's when you're coming up. Yeah, the coming up is

0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:02.120
<v Speaker 2>when you hit those spores. But you know there's other

0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 2>stuff that can go wrong down there as well. But Yeah,

0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:07.719
<v Speaker 2>it's time for us to go underground, but we'll be

0:47:07.880 --> 0:47:12.080
<v Speaker 2>we'll we'll be back with new non cicada episodes, and

0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:14.040
<v Speaker 2>who knows, in time, we might return to the world

0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:17.160
<v Speaker 2>of cicadas. Because, as we've been discussing, this is all

0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:20.040
<v Speaker 2>going to happen again. We're gonna get excited. People are

0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:22.960
<v Speaker 2>going to get excited about cicadas in the future, be

0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:27.719
<v Speaker 2>it just your your normal annual cicadas or those periodical

0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:31.799
<v Speaker 2>emergencies that can just be so amazing and overwhelming and yeah,

0:47:31.920 --> 0:47:34.359
<v Speaker 2>some a little like frightening and icky, but I think

0:47:34.400 --> 0:47:37.880
<v Speaker 2>you should embrace the cicada. Don't look away, look closer,

0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:41.440
<v Speaker 2>because there's a there's a lot to there's a lot

0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:44.439
<v Speaker 2>of wonder there if you look at it. All right,

0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:46.640
<v Speaker 2>we'll go and close it out here then, But again,

0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:48.319
<v Speaker 2>we'd love to hear from everyone out there. If you

0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:51.759
<v Speaker 2>have any thoughts or observations about cicadas. We'll continue to

0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:54.640
<v Speaker 2>talk about it in listener mail. Yes, send in your photos.

0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 2>You find a good cicada, take a photo of it

0:47:56.520 --> 0:47:59.000
<v Speaker 2>and send it to us. If no one else in

0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:01.919
<v Speaker 2>your life is interested in it, we are interested. Show

0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:02.680
<v Speaker 2>us those bugs.

0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:06.440
<v Speaker 3>We'll remind us your favorite thing you've done with Cicada

0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:07.759
<v Speaker 3>exoskeletons with the.

0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Molts, Yeah yeah. Or if you're doing stuff with sound,

0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:14.600
<v Speaker 2>are you doing, like you know, field samples of a

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Circada song and doing something with it. Send us an

0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:20.040
<v Speaker 2>example of that. We'd love to hear it. Just a

0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.239
<v Speaker 2>reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a

0:48:22.280 --> 0:48:26.200
<v Speaker 2>science and culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:29.000
<v Speaker 2>but we also put out other stuff during the week.

0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:31.400
<v Speaker 2>We got that listener mail on Mondays, We've got a

0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:34.759
<v Speaker 2>short form episode that comes out on Wednesdays, and then

0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:37.080
<v Speaker 2>on Fridays. We set aside most serious concerns, so just

0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:39.680
<v Speaker 2>talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema.

0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:45.480
<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:48.040
<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

0:48:50.480 --> 0:48:53.120
<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

0:48:53.160 --> 0:49:01.440
<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com.

0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.560
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0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:08.480
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0:49:08.560 --> 0:49:24.160
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