WEBVTT - Talking 'Space Chronicles' with Neil DeGrasse Tyson 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:15.640 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.040 My name is Robert Lamb. My name is Julie Douglas, 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.680 and we have a guest for today's episode. As you 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.480 probably gathered from the title, we are talking once again 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:28.840 with Neil deGrasse Tyson, that's right, via the phone. Um. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.480 We have a bunch of questions that that we locked 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.919 at him, Uh, mainly having to do with his wonderful 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.080 book which is called Space Chronicles, and it really is 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:44.479 a retrospective of NASA and space exploration, and it is 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.919 so fascinating and has every single aspect of space that 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.520 you would ever want to cram into your brain, including 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:56.480 killer asteroids and whether or not aliens might exist. Um, 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.480 So we had a chance to read that and then 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.680 to ask some questions, and we also had a chance 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.520 to give Dr Tyson some of your questions that you 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.559 provided on Facebook. Yeah, you might remember about a month back, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:10.679 well maybe a little a little longer, when we first 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.360 learned that we were going to do this interview. I 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.080 put the call out on Facebook or Facebook addressed by 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.360 the way, it's uh, stuff to blow your mind. Just 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:20.959 type that in do Facebook and you'll find us put 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.800 the call out for questions that you guys had for 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.040 Dr Tyson, and we received a whole list of them, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:28.800 and so we went in, we picked like the five 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.319 best and then asked as many of those as we 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.480 could during the time that we had him. And really, 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.960 I think some of the answers to your questions were 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.880 the best, uh as you'll as you'll discover in this 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.000 this episode. Yeah, I think you guys excited his imaginations. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.320 So but first of all, I do need to mention 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.520 again this is a great book, um Neiodle grass Tyson. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:50.520 For those of you who are not familiar with him, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.200 there's and really you have no excuse not to be 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.600 familiar with Neiodo grass Tyson because he's everywhere. He is 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.560 a mass communicator. He is out there as a spokesman 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.600 for science uh or our understanding of the cosmos, for 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:06.040 our continued exploration of the cosmos, and for just science 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.360 literacy in our culture and UH in this book is 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.600 just another great example that it's very readable. It is 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.280 not a you know, and it's not a heavy, heavy, 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.560 hard to read science book. It is a very readable 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.440 uh text that that is I mean It even has 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.600 his tweets in there, which I thought was and I 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.000 touched because he's a he's a big, big time tweeter. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.440 Become Twitter user if you if you would rather, and 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.280 you can find him on Twitter at Neil Tyson. That's 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.079 in E I L T Y s O N. Follow 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.600 him there. He's always throwing out some some neat little 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.359 tidbits about the scientific world, or he's questioning the science 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.839 of a major motion picture. He's always a lot of fun, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.240 that's right, And uh, I think I had mentioned it, 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.840 but he really does lay out, um some some of 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.000 the mysteries of the universe in a very elegant way, 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.840 and of course with his signature humor, which is pretty awesome. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.560 All right, Well that being said, let's let's break into 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:03.680 the interview itself. Well, first of all, welcome to Stuff 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.600 to Blow your Mind. Well, thank you. On our podcast 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.320 we when we're all about trying to communicate science and 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.520 mind blowing topics with our listeners and so you you were, 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.880 of course one of our heroes, so it's always a 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.160 pleasure to have you on the show. Well, thank you. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.320 Now I have to live up to that. Uh well, 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.160 we thought we'd just go ahead and start talking a 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.120 little bit about space chronicles, Facing the Ultimate Frontier UM, 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.560 the collection of essays that you have and really addressing 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.880 I think, from soup to nuts space exploration. UM. I 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:41.120 wanted to to talk about the political party partisanship that 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.480 that you talked about in the book, and I wanted 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.880 to sort of ask you if you thought that showing 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.360 the sausage making part of that would kind of help 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.880 the public to better understand some of the challenges that 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:58.000 face NASA in terms of budget constraints. Well, almost everything 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.880 is partisan today except for maybe veterans benefits, you know, 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.400 some things that are so sacred in the budget. And 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:10.160 I think the more people see the sausage making, the 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.680 more they might become disgusted with the fact that there's 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:17.320 sausage making at all for things that are fundamentally bipartisan 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.560 or or better yet, fundamentally nonpartisan. So to expose it, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.200 I think is a good thing. Not that I had 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.200 any secret access to what's going on in Washington, but 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:32.560 I offered an analysis of how progress on NASA's budget 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:38.720 and progress in space had been had fallen victim to 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:45.200 partisan grandstanding. And you know, space historically has never been 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.160 partisan at all. In other words, if you liked space, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:53.000 so you didn't like space, it was uncorrelated with whether 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.200 you were left or right, or Democrat or Republican or anything. 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.640 It was just simply because you had an opinion. And 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.520 that's a good thing about topics, I think, and it 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.359 means you don't sort of ascribe to how other people 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.560 want you to think about something. You can come up 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.160 with your own views. And that's in a way has 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.599 transcended that and that's I think it's been one of 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:19.440 its strong points. And in fact, most people, particularly in 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.320 the past forty years or so, most people who think 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.880 of America and listed things about America that they liked, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.039 most people that is, around the world, NASA would be 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.720 like number one on that list, Number one. Right, It's 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.800 not the President's and it's not the FBI or the 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.520 CIA or the military or anything. It's NASA. So what 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.400 a you know, what a what a point of diplomacy 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.520 that represents when you think about it in a geopolitical way. 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.960 So I think it's it's it's high time that people 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:56.920 just sat down and recognize the value of projects that 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.600 allow you to dream, empower you to dream about tomorrow. 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.279 The value that those projects have on our ambitions, on 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.320 our culture, on our educational pipeline, and and the urge 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.479 to get people interested in the STEM field of the science, technology, engineering, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.400 and man. Excellent well, Dr Tyson. In your book, you 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.200 point out that half a penny on the tax dollar 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.400 is the total cost of all space born telescopes, planetary probes, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.200 the rover on Mars, the International Space Stations, space Shuttle, 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.080 and telescopes in orbit. You also point out that space 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.040 exploration has yielded myriad indirect benefits, everything from cordless tools 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:34.600 and vitable braces and long distance telecommunications to two water filters. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.560 So if you had your druthers, how much more would 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.039 you allocate to NASA on the tax dollar and what 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.560 might that yield in terms of the direct and indirect returns. Yeah, 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.080 so so that I think that's important and excellent question. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.160 But I want to unpack it into sort of multiple 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.599 variables that are contained within it. So, for example, we 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.040 could list spinoffs from NASA direct spinoffs, and I give 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.719 a list in the book. Although I don't do well 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.000 on that list, I just offer the list and then 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.400 I keep going. Because if you went to the list 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.880 of direct spinoffs which would include temper foam and and 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:15.840 cordless power tools, high torque battery operated tools that all 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:21.040 came from UH pioneering efforts to enable space walking astronauts 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.600 to repair things while they're in space. You can't just 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.960 look for the nearest hunter in ten volt plug to 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:31.200 plug in your tools, and UH you know, things like 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.600 the inexpensive and accurate lasic surgery. The list is long 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.920 and it's impressive, right on back to the original urge 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:44.160 to miniaturized electronics in the first place. That was not 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.000 an interest of industry or the public. It was an 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.440 interest of NASA to reduce the weight of anything you'd 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.240 be launching from Earth surface to orbit or anywhere else. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.920 And if you've ask your grandparents, you know what the 0:07:58.080 --> 0:07:59.840 radio look like, they'll say it was a piece of 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.760 nature in their living room. And at that time, no 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.440 one is thinking, Gee, I want to carry that on 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.400 my hip pocket. It's just not a fault that they 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.560 don't want. It. Don't occur to anybody that that's what 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.800 you might do with a radio one day. So, yes, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.440 there's all these spinoffs, there's no doubt about it. But 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.240 if you look at the value of those spinoffs, compared 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.960 with that. In other words, the net sales let's say 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.200 all those spinoffs and compared to NASA's annual budget, it 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.439 doesn't compare. It's smaller than NASA's annual budget. So you 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:38.000 can't justify NASA's budget based on the economic value of spinoffs. 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.640 It just doesn't work. So I only tell I ever 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:42.520 talked about it is when someone else brings it up. 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:44.640 And it's only in the book because I have some 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.400 obligations just to show all the force that NASA represents. 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.160 The real impact of NASA has to do with its 0:08:53.240 --> 0:09:00.000 influence on a culture and the urge to embrace innovations 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.640 science and technology, because the benefits the discoveries or science 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.200 and technology are large daily in the papers. When that's 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.200 the activity you're engaged in, and you ask anyone who 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.560 has wanted to become a scientist or an engineer, just 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.680 ask them. Occasionally it's the great science or engineering teacher 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.319 in school. It's the case who twelve would because you 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.600 had a great science teacher. That's not the majority. The 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.520 majority of the cases is a kids saw something in life, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.640 they were exposed to some grand vision statement that that 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.680 something bigger than themselves was undertaking right. It wasn't just 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:43.160 some science class, wasn't just some science kit that whose 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.839 experiments they performed at home or in school. It was 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:51.280 bigger than that. Essentially of my generation who entered science 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.600 entered science because they saw that we were going to 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.480 the moon. That's how old I am, right, So they 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.839 would not sign a science teacher. Those science teachers for 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:02.880 hel up in them get along or making them appreciate 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:08.280 it all the more. But you can't undervalue how much 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.680 of a force of nature NASA is on on the 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.199 hearts and minds and the dreams of it culture. And 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.200 to excel at NASA, you have to innovate. And when 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.440 you do that in a big way, the country becomes 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.680 an innovation nation. And that's that's the real return. So 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.440 the return is you want to assure your economic survival 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.560 in the future because you are stimulating people to innovate 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.080 and innovations and science and technology century the engines of 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.000 tomorrow's economy. Well, there you have it. There it is, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:41.720 And you don't have to beat people over the head 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.800 to try to make them interested in this stuff. You 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.880 get that for free. You don't have to worry about 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.800 keeping your factories here because we'll be making things that 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.160 no one knows how to make yet. Because we'll be innovating. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.040 You don't have to worry about keeping kids interested in 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.920 science because the headlines will do that. And everybody looks 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.320 at these challenges of America of falling behind is a 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.480 series of band aids that they need to apply, and 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.640 then everything is somehow fixed without looking at the root 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:13.160 cause of all the lost vision statements that the citizen 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:18.719 m um is uh has been has been that that 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.839 has evaporated from our culture over the past ten and 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.360 twenty years. Um. In your book, you speak about the 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.640 three factors capable of stirring human cultures to engage in megaprojects. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.720 UH talk about war, economics, and less common these days, 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.640 obedience to a god or some some royal figure. So 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.640 does it really boil down to two negative motivations for 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:44.480 culture as a whole? Is it is? It doesn't have 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.559 to be fear or agreed? Do you think to really 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.480 get the megaprojects such as space exploration out there? Depends 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.000 of how you use the word negative, how you judge it. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:54.760 And I try not to value judge the thing that 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:56.760 I just put it put it out there, and I 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.760 lead the value judging to others. I would say that 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.440 the greatest driver of human expenditure of capital, be it 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.360 financial capital or human capital, is war. Now you can 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.560 interpret that as defense, all right, And that's the Great 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.440 Wall of China for example. That clearly was not a 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.880 military project for offense. It was a defensive military project, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.280 and that was constructed in the interests of the safety 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:28.400 and security of its citizens. So I wouldn't You can 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.240 think of it as negative because it's in response to 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.600 a threat, all right. And then you have economic return 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.600 definitely negative if it's sort of badly exploiting people. But 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.560 in its purest form, economic growth is a good thing 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.040 for the world. Uh. Those nice nations that are wealthier, 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.720 they live longer and happier lives and with less disease. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:54.000 So economic wealth, though while not as powerful a driver 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.160 as war is, comes in a very close second. And 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.760 you just look at you know, there's Queen as Abella. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.240 He didn't stay to Columbus, go to the New World 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.120 and come back and tell us about the botanical uh 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.520 explorations you did, and and and show us the maps 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.719 and we can put it up in our library. No, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.720 it was here's some flags wherever you go, put the 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.880 flag put to the Spanish flag down, and you know, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:25.400 to clear these lands for the Spanish Empire. And by 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.760 the way, try to explore as much as you can 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.480 the natural resources so that we can have trade partners 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.559 or we can become wealthier. And so yes, there's a 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.280 sort of a hit geministic motive there at the end 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.240 of the day. So you know Spain, Spain got wealthy 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:46.319 because they valued exploration as an economic activity. Columbus, I've 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.160 never met the guy, but surely he did this because 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:53.480 he and his heart was an explorer. And so the 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.760 explorer explores, but somebody's got to write to check. And 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.440 the history of this activity has demonstrated that the check 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.520 writers or governments when you're exploring where no one has 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.600 gone before, and private enterprise comes in later and exploit 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.000 those activities in the financial interest of the nations. Yeah, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.400 so in America's financial incentive to go into space, not 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.760 because you're going to read the benefits of spinoffs, but 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:23.640 because an innovation nation competes economically. In the twenty one century, 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.120 if exploration is not a good note of reason for 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:27.600 you to do it, then do it because you don't 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.680 want to die poor. Well, you don't want to see 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.880 a future of America where we are economically weak or 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:41.080 powerless on the world's stage. I am reminded that in Economists, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.000 Paul Krugman speculated that the discovery of an impending alien 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.520 attack would fix all of America's economic woes in about 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.760 eighteen months. So if if Paul Krugman were to approach 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:55.400 you about faking such a threat, what would you say. No, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.760 I would say that there's no doubt of America's resolve 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.360 when we feel threatened. I think that's there's just no 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:08.640 question about it. And because a threat transcends politics, if 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.320 everyone feels threatened, then you're not gonna have one person 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.160 say well, we're not threatened. If everybody feels threatened, and 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.400 you have all pistons running aligned in Congress and moneys 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.480 get the budgets get past, and military investments on flow 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.960 legged rivers. This is a major thesis of the book, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.000 based on my read of the history of human conduct. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.880 What all I would say is the value of these 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.680 investments not only would return in your security because you 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.640 want to deflect the asteroid rather than go extinct, but 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:45.240 also you become the kind of economy that thrives on 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.560 innovation and those If that's my only point, it becomes 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.320 an investment at that point, and the very question, oh 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.200 can we really afford of course you can afford it 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.280 because you invest it. You're investing, and you're expecting a 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.600 return on that investment in the form of a wealthier 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.840 nation in the decades to come. And by the way, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.360 that transcends time scales of quarterly reports and annual reports 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.760 and congressional re election times. So somebody needs the foresight 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.000 necessary to put this into motion to assure a future 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:18.400 stability of our nation's economy. You know, you're talking about 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.840 taking the long view, and um, I can't help but 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:26.200 think about the long U and asteroids near Earth objects. 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:33.040 Um oh you can, huh, you can't. Decades this has 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.040 been you know, we have any astrophysicists in arms reach. 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.080 You could have told you all about the asteroid threat. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.760 And apparently we are as a culture, as a world, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.560 we are feeble minded such that we don't believe it 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.040 until it happens, and then it's kind of too late. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.920 You know, it's a little you know, excuse me, somehow, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.600 as threat asn't real unless it's staring you in the face. 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.520 The good thing about science is that you can dicked 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.800 the coming of a threat. Yet that's apparently not enough 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.479 to trigger people's actions. The good thing, the silver lining 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:12.520 of the euros meteor in Russia, is that nobody died. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.600 Many people injured, but nobody died. And so therefore, if 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.439 we had to be slammed by something and learn a 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.120 lesson from it, it was an ideal sort of lesson 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.000 because everybody just needed to get a little patched up 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.359 and going about their way to fix a few walls 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.600 and windows. What a lesson that is. What a shot 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.159 across the bow that was. But again, if we were 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.760 already into space, this would be a trivial extension of 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.000 activities we were already engaged in. If all you're gonna 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:42.720 say now was listening to space so that we can 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.440 stop an asteroid, are you're missing the point? You're missing 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.919 the point. That's like saying I tried to analogize to 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:54.320 the building of the interstate system in the country. If 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.480 someone said, let's build an interstate to connect New York 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.760 and Los Angeles, well, that's useful, for sure, but I 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.239 will how about all the rest of the country. How 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.879 about that? How about the other cities? What are you 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.640 only going to do it to bring people one place 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.399 to another, because that's all you can think of doing 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.359 when there's all the rest of the country that's that 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.480 is waiting to be explored. So I viewed the entire 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.480 solar system as our backyard. And when you do, you know, 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.720 maybe there's asteroid miners. One day and we show them 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.840 our latest telescope data and they say that an asteroid 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.320 headed our way. Could you guys snare it be where 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.439 it puts us at risk? And they'll go ahead and 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.000 stare it because there they know how to manipulate a 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.040 maneuver and mine asteroids. The government wouldn't even people ever 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.600 would pay for that, but they wouldn't have to like 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:42.239 launch it themselves. All right, we're just gonna take one 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.639 quick break and when we come back, more questions with 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:52.840 neutograph types and including your question. All right, we're back. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.560 Let's jump right back into the interview with the ductor 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:00.080 and new of the draft type. Yeah. I just a 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.600 very elegant explanation of asteroids and long period comments in 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.560 your book and space chronicles, and I thought it just 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.399 really laid out the reasons why we can detect some 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.080 and the reasons why I can why we can't detect others. 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.320 In particular, you talk about apopis, which I know you've 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.760 talked about before in the media, and how this is 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.000 actually something that's very serious that we need to focus 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.880 on UM and I thought that maybe you could talk 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.800 a little bit about that, um in practical terms, how 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:35.000 we confront a problem like this and asteroid that's in 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.159 our view. And then a second part to that, I 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.800 thought maybe we could talk a little bit about the 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.919 role of privatization of asteroid mining and how that may 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.560 or may not affect asteroids. Yeah, you know, if your mato, 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.240 you might say that, lets blow the sucker out of 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.560 the sky. You know, you got nukes in the silos 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.240 left over from the Cold War put into good use. 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.400 And you know what I say often and as all 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.800 that I know of the American Armed Forces tells me 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.960 this is true, that we're really good at blowing stuff 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.199 up and less good at knowing where the pieces will fall. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.520 And that seems to have applied literally and metaphorically to 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.399 our military policy, where if you're objective to be to 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.040 blow up an asteroid, i'd be concerned that the one 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.880 spot that was originally targeted by this asteroid is now 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.359 headed to two places instead of one. So what have 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.560 you done? Um, now you have to evacuate both coasts, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:35.400 and you know, so there's some emerging consensus among those 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.600 who have studied the problem. Myself included that the soundest 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.080 way to approach this problem is through an asteroid deflection scenario. 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.000 The asteroid will continue to live another day and possibly 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.000 harm you in another day, but the advantage of it 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.520 is you get to nudge it slowly, and you get 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.480 to watch how effective you've been, and you keep doing 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:58.600 it until you are as effective as you needed to be. 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:01.919 And so with a paphos, the idea of this is 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.840 that when it comes very close to the Earth, that 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.400 you alter its course with it so that in its 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:13.080 return orbit it doesn't slam into the Earth precisely because 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.359 the later you hit you get to the problem, and 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:23.000 the more the all your capacity to solve that problem dropped. Gotcha, 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.440 and a lot of us is looking into the crystal ball. 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:27.960 But you know, there's been to talk about asteroid mining 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:32.160 and private companies taking that on because you know, at 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.760 at some point it might yield some some profits, certainly 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.560 not right away. Uh. The question I think for us is, 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.199 if you have so much space junk, if you have 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:47.080 near Earth objects in orbit, and you have private companies 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.760 up there now with their equipment, do they then have 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.800 an obligation to help clean up space junk to help 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:58.000 deflect near Earth objects. Yeah. I wouldn't call it an obligation. 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.360 I would just call it no. How you know, who 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.159 do you get? I mean, forgive me for referencing the 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:07.680 movie Farm again, But they had a task set out 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.399 in front of them in the film to bury a 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.600 nuke in an asteroid, because otherwise it won't blow it apart. 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.040 So in the ranks of NASA there was no one 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:23.280 who had any experience drilling into solid rock or something 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.800 hard to penetrate, and so they got Bruce Willis and 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.840 his craft team of guess their oil rig drillers or something, 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:35.080 and so they had a very specific talent set unique 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:39.560 to the task. So, if we are busy turning the 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.560 Solar System into our backyard, then there will be a 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:48.120 mining company of exploiting asteroid. So we would presume that 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:52.480 if if asteroid mining was an activity and economic activity, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:54.719 then they would know how to get to asteroids, how 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.959 to mind them, how to turn them around, how to 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:00.879 tow them from one location to another to be better 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:05.240 suited for their access. And if you have that capability, 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.760 then why wouldn't they be the ones you would task 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:15.520 to uh deflect an asteroid and it becomes an asteroid? Right? 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:17.000 Is one coming out way? I want you to take 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:19.680 it and mind it for all it's worth, and and 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:21.800