1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb. My name is Julie Douglas, 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: and we have a guest for today's episode. As you 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: probably gathered from the title, we are talking once again 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: with Neil deGrasse Tyson, that's right, via the phone. Um. 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: We have a bunch of questions that that we locked 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: at him, Uh, mainly having to do with his wonderful 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: book which is called Space Chronicles, and it really is 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: a retrospective of NASA and space exploration, and it is 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: so fascinating and has every single aspect of space that 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: you would ever want to cram into your brain, including 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: killer asteroids and whether or not aliens might exist. Um, 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: So we had a chance to read that and then 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: to ask some questions, and we also had a chance 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: to give Dr Tyson some of your questions that you 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: provided on Facebook. Yeah, you might remember about a month back, 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: well maybe a little a little longer, when we first 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: learned that we were going to do this interview. I 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: put the call out on Facebook or Facebook addressed by 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: the way, it's uh, stuff to blow your mind. Just 22 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: type that in do Facebook and you'll find us put 23 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: the call out for questions that you guys had for 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: Dr Tyson, and we received a whole list of them, 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: and so we went in, we picked like the five 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: best and then asked as many of those as we 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: could during the time that we had him. And really, 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: I think some of the answers to your questions were 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: the best, uh as you'll as you'll discover in this 30 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah, I think you guys excited his imaginations. 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: So but first of all, I do need to mention 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: again this is a great book, um Neiodle grass Tyson. 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: For those of you who are not familiar with him, 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: there's and really you have no excuse not to be 35 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: familiar with Neiodo grass Tyson because he's everywhere. He is 36 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: a mass communicator. He is out there as a spokesman 37 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: for science uh or our understanding of the cosmos, for 38 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: our continued exploration of the cosmos, and for just science 39 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: literacy in our culture and UH in this book is 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: just another great example that it's very readable. It is 41 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: not a you know, and it's not a heavy, heavy, 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: hard to read science book. It is a very readable 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: uh text that that is I mean It even has 44 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: his tweets in there, which I thought was and I 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: touched because he's a he's a big, big time tweeter. 46 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: Become Twitter user if you if you would rather, and 47 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: you can find him on Twitter at Neil Tyson. That's 48 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: in E I L T Y s O N. Follow 49 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: him there. He's always throwing out some some neat little 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: tidbits about the scientific world, or he's questioning the science 51 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 1: of a major motion picture. He's always a lot of fun, 52 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: that's right, And uh, I think I had mentioned it, 53 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: but he really does lay out, um some some of 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: the mysteries of the universe in a very elegant way, 55 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: and of course with his signature humor, which is pretty awesome. 56 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: All right, Well that being said, let's let's break into 57 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: the interview itself. Well, first of all, welcome to Stuff 58 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. Well, thank you. On our podcast 59 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: we when we're all about trying to communicate science and 60 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: mind blowing topics with our listeners and so you you were, 61 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: of course one of our heroes, so it's always a 62 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: pleasure to have you on the show. Well, thank you. 63 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: Now I have to live up to that. Uh well, 64 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: we thought we'd just go ahead and start talking a 65 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: little bit about space chronicles, Facing the Ultimate Frontier UM, 66 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: the collection of essays that you have and really addressing 67 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: I think, from soup to nuts space exploration. UM. I 68 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: wanted to to talk about the political party partisanship that 69 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: that you talked about in the book, and I wanted 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: to sort of ask you if you thought that showing 71 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: the sausage making part of that would kind of help 72 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: the public to better understand some of the challenges that 73 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: face NASA in terms of budget constraints. Well, almost everything 74 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: is partisan today except for maybe veterans benefits, you know, 75 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: some things that are so sacred in the budget. And 76 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: I think the more people see the sausage making, the 77 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: more they might become disgusted with the fact that there's 78 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: sausage making at all for things that are fundamentally bipartisan 79 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: or or better yet, fundamentally nonpartisan. So to expose it, 80 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: I think is a good thing. Not that I had 81 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: any secret access to what's going on in Washington, but 82 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: I offered an analysis of how progress on NASA's budget 83 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: and progress in space had been had fallen victim to 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: partisan grandstanding. And you know, space historically has never been 85 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: partisan at all. In other words, if you liked space, 86 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: so you didn't like space, it was uncorrelated with whether 87 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: you were left or right, or Democrat or Republican or anything. 88 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: It was just simply because you had an opinion. And 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: that's a good thing about topics, I think, and it 90 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: means you don't sort of ascribe to how other people 91 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: want you to think about something. You can come up 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: with your own views. And that's in a way has 93 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: transcended that and that's I think it's been one of 94 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: its strong points. And in fact, most people, particularly in 95 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: the past forty years or so, most people who think 96 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: of America and listed things about America that they liked, 97 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: most people that is, around the world, NASA would be 98 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: like number one on that list, Number one. Right, It's 99 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: not the President's and it's not the FBI or the 100 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: CIA or the military or anything. It's NASA. So what 101 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: a you know, what a what a point of diplomacy 102 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: that represents when you think about it in a geopolitical way. 103 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: So I think it's it's it's high time that people 104 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: just sat down and recognize the value of projects that 105 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: allow you to dream, empower you to dream about tomorrow. 106 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: The value that those projects have on our ambitions, on 107 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: our culture, on our educational pipeline, and and the urge 108 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: to get people interested in the STEM field of the science, technology, engineering, 109 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: and man. Excellent well, Dr Tyson. In your book, you 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: point out that half a penny on the tax dollar 111 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: is the total cost of all space born telescopes, planetary probes, 112 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: the rover on Mars, the International Space Stations, space Shuttle, 113 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: and telescopes in orbit. You also point out that space 114 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: exploration has yielded myriad indirect benefits, everything from cordless tools 115 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: and vitable braces and long distance telecommunications to two water filters. 116 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: So if you had your druthers, how much more would 117 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: you allocate to NASA on the tax dollar and what 118 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: might that yield in terms of the direct and indirect returns. Yeah, 119 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: so so that I think that's important and excellent question. 120 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: But I want to unpack it into sort of multiple 121 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: variables that are contained within it. So, for example, we 122 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: could list spinoffs from NASA direct spinoffs, and I give 123 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: a list in the book. Although I don't do well 124 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: on that list, I just offer the list and then 125 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: I keep going. Because if you went to the list 126 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: of direct spinoffs which would include temper foam and and 127 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: cordless power tools, high torque battery operated tools that all 128 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: came from UH pioneering efforts to enable space walking astronauts 129 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: to repair things while they're in space. You can't just 130 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: look for the nearest hunter in ten volt plug to 131 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: plug in your tools, and UH you know, things like 132 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: the inexpensive and accurate lasic surgery. The list is long 133 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: and it's impressive, right on back to the original urge 134 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: to miniaturized electronics in the first place. That was not 135 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: an interest of industry or the public. It was an 136 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: interest of NASA to reduce the weight of anything you'd 137 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: be launching from Earth surface to orbit or anywhere else. 138 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: And if you've ask your grandparents, you know what the 139 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: radio look like, they'll say it was a piece of 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: nature in their living room. And at that time, no 141 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: one is thinking, Gee, I want to carry that on 142 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: my hip pocket. It's just not a fault that they 143 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: don't want. It. Don't occur to anybody that that's what 144 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: you might do with a radio one day. So, yes, 145 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: there's all these spinoffs, there's no doubt about it. But 146 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: if you look at the value of those spinoffs, compared 147 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: with that. In other words, the net sales let's say 148 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: all those spinoffs and compared to NASA's annual budget, it 149 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: doesn't compare. It's smaller than NASA's annual budget. So you 150 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: can't justify NASA's budget based on the economic value of spinoffs. 151 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: It just doesn't work. So I only tell I ever 152 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: talked about it is when someone else brings it up. 153 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: And it's only in the book because I have some 154 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: obligations just to show all the force that NASA represents. 155 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: The real impact of NASA has to do with its 156 00:08:53,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: influence on a culture and the urge to embrace innovations 157 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: science and technology, because the benefits the discoveries or science 158 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: and technology are large daily in the papers. When that's 159 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: the activity you're engaged in, and you ask anyone who 160 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: has wanted to become a scientist or an engineer, just 161 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: ask them. Occasionally it's the great science or engineering teacher 162 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: in school. It's the case who twelve would because you 163 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: had a great science teacher. That's not the majority. The 164 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: majority of the cases is a kids saw something in life, 165 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: they were exposed to some grand vision statement that that 166 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: something bigger than themselves was undertaking right. It wasn't just 167 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: some science class, wasn't just some science kit that whose 168 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: experiments they performed at home or in school. It was 169 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: bigger than that. Essentially of my generation who entered science 170 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: entered science because they saw that we were going to 171 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the moon. That's how old I am, right, So they 172 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: would not sign a science teacher. Those science teachers for 173 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: hel up in them get along or making them appreciate 174 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: it all the more. But you can't undervalue how much 175 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: of a force of nature NASA is on on the 176 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: hearts and minds and the dreams of it culture. And 177 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: to excel at NASA, you have to innovate. And when 178 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: you do that in a big way, the country becomes 179 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: an innovation nation. And that's that's the real return. So 180 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: the return is you want to assure your economic survival 181 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: in the future because you are stimulating people to innovate 182 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: and innovations and science and technology century the engines of 183 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: tomorrow's economy. Well, there you have it. There it is, 184 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: And you don't have to beat people over the head 185 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: to try to make them interested in this stuff. You 186 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: get that for free. You don't have to worry about 187 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: keeping your factories here because we'll be making things that 188 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: no one knows how to make yet. Because we'll be innovating. 189 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about keeping kids interested in 190 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: science because the headlines will do that. And everybody looks 191 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: at these challenges of America of falling behind is a 192 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: series of band aids that they need to apply, and 193 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: then everything is somehow fixed without looking at the root 194 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: cause of all the lost vision statements that the citizen 195 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 1: m um is uh has been has been that that 196 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: has evaporated from our culture over the past ten and 197 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: twenty years. Um. In your book, you speak about the 198 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: three factors capable of stirring human cultures to engage in megaprojects. 199 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: UH talk about war, economics, and less common these days, 200 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: obedience to a god or some some royal figure. So 201 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: does it really boil down to two negative motivations for 202 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: culture as a whole? Is it is? It doesn't have 203 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: to be fear or agreed? Do you think to really 204 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: get the megaprojects such as space exploration out there? Depends 205 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: of how you use the word negative, how you judge it. 206 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: And I try not to value judge the thing that 207 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: I just put it put it out there, and I 208 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: lead the value judging to others. I would say that 209 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: the greatest driver of human expenditure of capital, be it 210 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: financial capital or human capital, is war. Now you can 211 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: interpret that as defense, all right, And that's the Great 212 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: Wall of China for example. That clearly was not a 213 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: military project for offense. It was a defensive military project, 214 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: and that was constructed in the interests of the safety 215 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: and security of its citizens. So I wouldn't You can 216 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: think of it as negative because it's in response to 217 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: a threat, all right. And then you have economic return 218 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: definitely negative if it's sort of badly exploiting people. But 219 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: in its purest form, economic growth is a good thing 220 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: for the world. Uh. Those nice nations that are wealthier, 221 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: they live longer and happier lives and with less disease. 222 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: So economic wealth, though while not as powerful a driver 223 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: as war is, comes in a very close second. And 224 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: you just look at you know, there's Queen as Abella. 225 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: He didn't stay to Columbus, go to the New World 226 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: and come back and tell us about the botanical uh 227 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: explorations you did, and and and show us the maps 228 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: and we can put it up in our library. No, 229 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: it was here's some flags wherever you go, put the 230 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: flag put to the Spanish flag down, and you know, 231 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: to clear these lands for the Spanish Empire. And by 232 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: the way, try to explore as much as you can 233 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: the natural resources so that we can have trade partners 234 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: or we can become wealthier. And so yes, there's a 235 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: sort of a hit geministic motive there at the end 236 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: of the day. So you know Spain, Spain got wealthy 237 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: because they valued exploration as an economic activity. Columbus, I've 238 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: never met the guy, but surely he did this because 239 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: he and his heart was an explorer. And so the 240 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: explorer explores, but somebody's got to write to check. And 241 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: the history of this activity has demonstrated that the check 242 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: writers or governments when you're exploring where no one has 243 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: gone before, and private enterprise comes in later and exploit 244 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: those activities in the financial interest of the nations. Yeah, 245 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: so in America's financial incentive to go into space, not 246 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: because you're going to read the benefits of spinoffs, but 247 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: because an innovation nation competes economically. In the twenty one century, 248 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: if exploration is not a good note of reason for 249 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: you to do it, then do it because you don't 250 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: want to die poor. Well, you don't want to see 251 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: a future of America where we are economically weak or 252 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: powerless on the world's stage. I am reminded that in Economists, 253 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: Paul Krugman speculated that the discovery of an impending alien 254 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: attack would fix all of America's economic woes in about 255 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: eighteen months. So if if Paul Krugman were to approach 256 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: you about faking such a threat, what would you say. No, 257 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: I would say that there's no doubt of America's resolve 258 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: when we feel threatened. I think that's there's just no 259 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: question about it. And because a threat transcends politics, if 260 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: everyone feels threatened, then you're not gonna have one person 261 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: say well, we're not threatened. If everybody feels threatened, and 262 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: you have all pistons running aligned in Congress and moneys 263 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: get the budgets get past, and military investments on flow 264 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: legged rivers. This is a major thesis of the book, 265 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: based on my read of the history of human conduct. 266 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: What all I would say is the value of these 267 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: investments not only would return in your security because you 268 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: want to deflect the asteroid rather than go extinct, but 269 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: also you become the kind of economy that thrives on 270 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: innovation and those If that's my only point, it becomes 271 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: an investment at that point, and the very question, oh 272 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: can we really afford of course you can afford it 273 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: because you invest it. You're investing, and you're expecting a 274 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: return on that investment in the form of a wealthier 275 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: nation in the decades to come. And by the way, 276 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: that transcends time scales of quarterly reports and annual reports 277 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: and congressional re election times. So somebody needs the foresight 278 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: necessary to put this into motion to assure a future 279 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: stability of our nation's economy. You know, you're talking about 280 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: taking the long view, and um, I can't help but 281 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: think about the long U and asteroids near Earth objects. 282 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: Um oh you can, huh, you can't. Decades this has 283 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: been you know, we have any astrophysicists in arms reach. 284 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: You could have told you all about the asteroid threat. 285 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: And apparently we are as a culture, as a world, 286 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: we are feeble minded such that we don't believe it 287 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: until it happens, and then it's kind of too late. 288 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's a little you know, excuse me, somehow, 289 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: as threat asn't real unless it's staring you in the face. 290 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: The good thing about science is that you can dicked 291 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: the coming of a threat. Yet that's apparently not enough 292 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: to trigger people's actions. The good thing, the silver lining 293 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: of the euros meteor in Russia, is that nobody died. 294 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: Many people injured, but nobody died. And so therefore, if 295 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: we had to be slammed by something and learn a 296 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: lesson from it, it was an ideal sort of lesson 297 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: because everybody just needed to get a little patched up 298 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: and going about their way to fix a few walls 299 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: and windows. What a lesson that is. What a shot 300 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: across the bow that was. But again, if we were 301 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: already into space, this would be a trivial extension of 302 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: activities we were already engaged in. If all you're gonna 303 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: say now was listening to space so that we can 304 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: stop an asteroid, are you're missing the point? You're missing 305 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: the point. That's like saying I tried to analogize to 306 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: the building of the interstate system in the country. If 307 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: someone said, let's build an interstate to connect New York 308 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: and Los Angeles, well, that's useful, for sure, but I 309 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: will how about all the rest of the country. How 310 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: about that? How about the other cities? What are you 311 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: only going to do it to bring people one place 312 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: to another, because that's all you can think of doing 313 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: when there's all the rest of the country that's that 314 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: is waiting to be explored. So I viewed the entire 315 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: solar system as our backyard. And when you do, you know, 316 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: maybe there's asteroid miners. One day and we show them 317 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: our latest telescope data and they say that an asteroid 318 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: headed our way. Could you guys snare it be where 319 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: it puts us at risk? And they'll go ahead and 320 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: stare it because there they know how to manipulate a 321 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: maneuver and mine asteroids. The government wouldn't even people ever 322 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: would pay for that, but they wouldn't have to like 323 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:42,239 Speaker 1: launch it themselves. All right, we're just gonna take one 324 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, more questions with 325 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: neutograph types and including your question. All right, we're back. 326 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: Let's jump right back into the interview with the ductor 327 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: and new of the draft type. Yeah. I just a 328 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: very elegant explanation of asteroids and long period comments in 329 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: your book and space chronicles, and I thought it just 330 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: really laid out the reasons why we can detect some 331 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: and the reasons why I can why we can't detect others. 332 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: In particular, you talk about apopis, which I know you've 333 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: talked about before in the media, and how this is 334 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: actually something that's very serious that we need to focus 335 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: on UM and I thought that maybe you could talk 336 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: a little bit about that, um in practical terms, how 337 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: we confront a problem like this and asteroid that's in 338 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: our view. And then a second part to that, I 339 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: thought maybe we could talk a little bit about the 340 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: role of privatization of asteroid mining and how that may 341 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: or may not affect asteroids. Yeah, you know, if your mato, 342 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: you might say that, lets blow the sucker out of 343 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: the sky. You know, you got nukes in the silos 344 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: left over from the Cold War put into good use. 345 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: And you know what I say often and as all 346 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: that I know of the American Armed Forces tells me 347 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: this is true, that we're really good at blowing stuff 348 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: up and less good at knowing where the pieces will fall. 349 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: And that seems to have applied literally and metaphorically to 350 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: our military policy, where if you're objective to be to 351 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: blow up an asteroid, i'd be concerned that the one 352 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: spot that was originally targeted by this asteroid is now 353 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: headed to two places instead of one. So what have 354 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: you done? Um, now you have to evacuate both coasts, 355 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: and you know, so there's some emerging consensus among those 356 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: who have studied the problem. Myself included that the soundest 357 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: way to approach this problem is through an asteroid deflection scenario. 358 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: The asteroid will continue to live another day and possibly 359 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: harm you in another day, but the advantage of it 360 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: is you get to nudge it slowly, and you get 361 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: to watch how effective you've been, and you keep doing 362 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: it until you are as effective as you needed to be. 363 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: And so with a paphos, the idea of this is 364 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: that when it comes very close to the Earth, that 365 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: you alter its course with it so that in its 366 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: return orbit it doesn't slam into the Earth precisely because 367 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: the later you hit you get to the problem, and 368 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: the more the all your capacity to solve that problem dropped. Gotcha, 369 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of us is looking into the crystal ball. 370 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: But you know, there's been to talk about asteroid mining 371 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: and private companies taking that on because you know, at 372 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: at some point it might yield some some profits, certainly 373 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: not right away. Uh. The question I think for us is, 374 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: if you have so much space junk, if you have 375 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: near Earth objects in orbit, and you have private companies 376 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: up there now with their equipment, do they then have 377 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: an obligation to help clean up space junk to help 378 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: deflect near Earth objects. Yeah. I wouldn't call it an obligation. 379 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: I would just call it no. How you know, who 380 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: do you get? I mean, forgive me for referencing the 381 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: movie Farm again, But they had a task set out 382 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: in front of them in the film to bury a 383 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: nuke in an asteroid, because otherwise it won't blow it apart. 384 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: So in the ranks of NASA there was no one 385 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: who had any experience drilling into solid rock or something 386 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: hard to penetrate, and so they got Bruce Willis and 387 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: his craft team of guess their oil rig drillers or something, 388 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: and so they had a very specific talent set unique 389 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: to the task. So, if we are busy turning the 390 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: Solar System into our backyard, then there will be a 391 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: mining company of exploiting asteroid. So we would presume that 392 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: if if asteroid mining was an activity and economic activity, 393 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: then they would know how to get to asteroids, how 394 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: to mind them, how to turn them around, how to 395 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: tow them from one location to another to be better 396 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: suited for their access. And if you have that capability, 397 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: then why wouldn't they be the ones you would task 398 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: to uh deflect an asteroid and it becomes an asteroid? Right? 399 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: Is one coming out way? I want you to take 400 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: it and mind it for all it's worth, and and 401 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: and we're done with it. Would that'd be kind of 402 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: cool if every asteroid that would end life on Earth 403 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: simply became a source of natural resources to help life 404 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: on Earth. That's the kind of thinking that goes on 405 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: when you're in an innovation nation. A storm is ready 406 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: to hit the coast, you know, do you run away 407 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: from it and buy up all the water from the 408 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: shelves or what do you say? How can I mitigate 409 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,239 Speaker 1: that storm? How can I deflect that storm? How can 410 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: I tap the psychlonic energy contained within it and drive 411 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: the energy needs of the city that it's about to destroy? 412 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't call it an obligation. I'll just call it. Yeah. 413 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: Of course they'll do it, and of course and they'll 414 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: know how to. Other people will have money, but not 415 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: to know now, so you pay them. I mean it's 416 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: a company and they use their resources. You're paying to 417 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: use their resources. You know, the Post Office doesn't fly 418 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: their own airplanes. They pay commercial carriers to fly mail 419 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: US mail in their belly. The government has had this 420 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: kind of relationship with a business forever. You know, how 421 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: do we make the cheap? In World War Two government 422 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: gave money the Christler said the Christler had a good design, 423 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: They built the cheap and they still make cheaps and 424 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: they make money off of it. That's how we're in 425 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: a capitalist society. That's how you know, that's how that's 426 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: supposed to work. Obviously, the wave of public and political 427 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: support for a space explanation has that been flowed over 428 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: the years. Um, but what if we had somehow maintained 429 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: it at its level? How far would we be today? Oh? 430 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: So at it? So at the level you're talking about 431 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: would be the Mateen sixties six level. That's where NASA's 432 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: funding had peaked as a percentage of the federal budget. 433 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: It peaked at about four. In fact, there's a huge 434 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: set of appendices in Space Chronicles where I plot the 435 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: NASA's budget over fifty years, and in there is the 436 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: original founding document of NASA. NASA has sounded like the 437 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: same week I was born, So I feel NASA pains 438 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: and joys and challenges. So in there you can see 439 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: the plot of it's of the budget and it's it's 440 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: a stunning difference between the commitment that we made as 441 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: a nation over that period and the commitment we're making now. Now. 442 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: You don't have to always keep the commitment at high 443 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: if the nation gets wealthier. If the nation gets wealthier, 444 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: which it has done over the decades, then your percentage 445 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,239 Speaker 1: could go down, yet your net money could go up. 446 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how that works if you're always referencing 447 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: your budget as a percent of the federal budget. But 448 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: to give to put some numbers on this, it was 449 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: four in ninety six going into nineteen. That was so 450 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: the peep build up of the Apollo program. And if 451 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: we have that money now, NASA's budget would be eight 452 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: times a factor of eight larger than its current value. 453 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: If NASA we're we're appreciated at the same percent of 454 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: the federal budget that it was back then, and I 455 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: would claim that at a much lower price tag than that, 456 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: you can turn the entire solar system into your backyard. 457 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: You can reach a space rentier. And these are stories 458 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: that the press would write about. I want to desk 459 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: if you thought that an earthlike plant might be discovered, 460 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't know in fifty years, a hundred years. And 461 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: do you think that it's something like citizen science that 462 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: will be a part of it in the absence of 463 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: a sput Nick moment or an alien attack. The sput 464 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: Nick moments and the alien attacks are the kind of 465 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: forces that galvanize an entire society. But in any society, 466 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: there are always people. In any wealthy society, there are 467 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: always people who will spend their mental and emotional energies 468 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: thinking about discovery. It's been going on. The people are 469 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: doing that ever since at the beginning. You know who's 470 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: the first one to leave the cave. That's somebody who 471 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: wants to discover. It's an urge within us that I 472 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: don't think we should stand and denial of. Although many 473 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: people have forgotten what it is or what it felt 474 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: like to explore, every child knows what it's like to explore. 475 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: They turn over rocks and climb trees, and pluck your suburban, 476 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: Your climb trees, They plucked petals off roses jump two 477 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: feet in puddles. They you know, this is what kids do. 478 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: They catch snowflakes in their mouths, and adults somehow lose 479 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: this playful curiosity about the world around them. And all 480 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: you need to do is keep it. You don't have 481 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: to create it from scratch. It was already there. Just 482 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: find find ways to foster it and nurture it, and 483 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: then you're you're coming along nicely. So now that the 484 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: thrust of your question was, I just wondered if you 485 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: thought that an earth like planet might be discovered in 486 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: the next fifty years, and do you think that citizen 487 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: science will be a part of that, since we're somewhat 488 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: handstrong in terms of budgets to to to really look 489 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: very hard for an earth like planet. Sure, well, we 490 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: already have earth like planets in the catalog. So the 491 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: challenge is an earthlike planet in the habitable zone, the 492 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: Goldilocks zone of its host star, not too close otherwise 493 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: if it had liquid water, it would evaporate, and not 494 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: too far because if it had liquid water would freeze 495 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: and that's not useful to life as we know it, 496 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: which requires liquid water. So we have planets that have 497 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: been discovered that just not many of them. This might 498 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: handful fewer than five out of the we're rising through 499 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: a thousand exoplanets that are in the catalogs today. Citizen 500 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: science is a is a wonderful exploitation of the Internet, 501 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: and we should have more of it, especially since in 502 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: the astrophysics community we are overrun with data, the scales 503 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: of data that we simply can't analyze ourselves, and I 504 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: think that's a good thing. I think there should be 505 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: more of it, especially for the data heavy fields such 506 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: as my own. But that's itself is not going to 507 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: transform a culture. That's gonna that's a side activity for 508 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: people who already know they like science. Okay, how are 509 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: you doing on time? Do you have time for a 510 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: few of the listeners submitted questions or do you know 511 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: at fifteen more minutes? Okay, well, I'm gonna go through these. 512 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: If you don't like the question, are you I'll take 513 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: any question to give me. Okay, all right, Well, this 514 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: is the first question comes from a listener named Mike. 515 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Mike asked, can you expound in a simple way on 516 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: how dark matter and energy seem to bind and expand 517 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: the matter we see as the visible universe. Uh yeah, 518 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: So if you think of mass, all right, mass can 519 00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: be manifested in two ways. In one form it is energy. 520 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: In another form it's matter. Okay, they think of that, 521 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,479 Speaker 1: think of it that way, and each of those contain 522 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: mass were mass equivalent. And our understanding of the universe 523 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: is beginning, it's evolution. Its end sort of flows through 524 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: that understanding, and you can look at how much mass 525 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: there is in the universe and what it's doing to 526 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: the universe. Over the years, beginning in ninety six, we 527 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: learned that there's more going on in the universe than 528 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: just what our mass is doing. So in seven we 529 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: discovered us there's gravity out there that has no known 530 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: point of origin. And then in to two decades ago, 531 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: in late nineties, that is, we found that there's a 532 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: pressure in the vacuum of space that's forcing the universe 533 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: to expand. So and those are huge fractions of all 534 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: that is driving the universe. If you add up the 535 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: extra gravity, which we call dark matter, with the extra 536 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: pressure on the in the vacuum of space, which we 537 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: call dark energy, it's of everything we know. So you know, 538 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: you can say we're just completely stupid about how the 539 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: universe works, although the part we do know works really 540 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: really well, so that's a good thing. But the rest, 541 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: if you can if you combine them. So there's our 542 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: sort of mass, which is matter and energy, and then 543 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: the the the the the dark matter, and the dark energy. 544 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: All of this is what's driving the universe. And the 545 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: total sort of energy content in the universe is contained 546 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: in the sum of those three. And we don't know 547 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: what's causing the dark matter, and we don't know what's 548 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: causing the dark energy. Okay um. Our next question comes 549 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: to us from listener Jerry. Jerry asked, how do we 550 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: communicate science effectively? And what other science communicators do you 551 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: admire other than the great Sagans or at for us? 552 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: Uh So, in America we do we do a few 553 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: things very well, or at least we do a few 554 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: things famously. One of them is that we make jets, 555 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: all right. Another one is it's our entertainment industry. You know, 556 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: America entertains the world with our movies, our TV shows, 557 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: our podcasts, our our broadcast content. Is an extraordinary gift 558 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: to the world. Any of us remember when you visit 559 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: other countries when you were a kid, you put on 560 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: the TV and there's your favorite TV show dubbed in 561 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: the local language, whereas we don't have any of their 562 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: TV shows dubbed in English. Right, So there's clearly a 563 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: one way street going on here where we're entertaining the world. 564 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: It would be irresponsible of anyone who is trying to 565 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: teach an electorate if it could be irresponsible if they 566 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: didn't exploit the power of media, entertainment, media and delivering 567 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: the messages. So that's just an important fact. Okay, we 568 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: have another question that comes to us from listener Cody. 569 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: Cody asked, what's your view on the connection between science 570 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: and philosophy. There's a very long tradition of a marriage 571 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: between science and philosophy that goes back forever. And if 572 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: you look at what the philosopher does, the philosopher assesses 573 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: the landscape and then sits in a chair and thinks 574 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: about it, deep thoughts, and then comes up with some 575 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: new understanding, with some new outlook on that landscape. Philosophers 576 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: at their best, that's what they do. The scientists, as 577 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,959 Speaker 1: scientists at their best, will assess the landscape, propose an 578 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: idea for how or why that landscape should be something else. 579 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: Or something different or something more nuanced, and then they'll 580 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: divide an experiment to test the idea. If the idea 581 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: is not supported by experiment, they discard the idea and 582 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: then move on to the next one. So the difference 583 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: between the philosopher and the scientist is that the philosopher 584 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: has no laboratory, pilosopher has no telescope. Plosopher has no 585 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: particle accelerator. And when physics, which I'm using sort of 586 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: as elite science in my answer to your question, when 587 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 1: physics left the tabletop, which is basically the hundred and 588 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, it left the tabletop and entered the 589 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: realm of the quantum, which which lives wholly outside of 590 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: human experience and human common sense, and it looked at 591 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: the large scale structure of the universe. These two extremes 592 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: fall so far away from your life experience that you 593 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: can't sit on a couch and deduce the nature of 594 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: the world from your own life experience, because your life 595 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: experience doesn't contain that which the experiments are demonstrating that 596 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: the how the actual world behaves. Now, of course Einstein 597 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: conjured up relativity, you know, not quite out of the blue, 598 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: but there were some puzzling things that could not be understood, 599 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: and he wrote a mathematical formalism for his theory, and 600 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 1: then that came up with predictions, so that we tested 601 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: the predictions and if theories turned out to be true. 602 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: So that's a good thing. Philosophers don't tend to bring 603 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: math to the problem in the way actual scientists do. 604 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: The more sort of idea driven than calculation driven. Historically, 605 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: that's how that's been the case. So I could a 606 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: philosopher have come up with relativity, I suppose, but they didn't. 607 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: A philosopher surely could have come up with evolution because 608 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,439 Speaker 1: the data were available, although Gdarin had some extra data 609 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: to really drive it home, but that one didn't require 610 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: from financy equipment to have resolved biology. Philosopher in principle 611 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: could have come up with evolution by natural selection, but 612 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: they didn't. It was a scientist. And so you look 613 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: at progress in our understanding of the natural world in 614 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: the last hundred years, the last hundred and fifty years, 615 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 1: that progress has primarily been by the thinking of scientists, 616 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: not of philosophers. Now you can say some scientists are 617 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: thinking philosophically. I don't have a problem with that, But 618 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: to say, let us train people in philosophy so that 619 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: they can become better scientists, I don't. I don't improve 620 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: of that at all. That my read of how that 621 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: has gone in the past century tells me that you 622 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: are removing yourself from the frontier cosmic discovery. Now there's 623 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 1: some branches of science that are brand new, like spanking 624 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: brand new, like neuroscience. All right, that's only been on 625 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: the map, you know, ten years tops before then. There 626 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: are people, you know, poking around the brain, but it 627 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: hadn't really taken off as its own, as its own 628 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: field where you can get degrees in it. And that's 629 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: early enough that and plus, the mind is so fascinating 630 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: and so complex, and there's so many ways that can 631 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,479 Speaker 1: think about how it works and how it doesn't work. 632 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: It might benefit from the efforts of philosophers. And I 633 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: know there are a bunch of sort of neuro philosophers 634 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: who are orbiting the field in an effort to contribute. 635 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: And my hope is that they can and set things 636 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: in directions that they need to be in the way 637 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: early philosophers with regard to physics did for physicists. There 638 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: are other branches of You know, this philosophy of ethics 639 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: is religious philosophy. There are other kinds of philosophy out there. 640 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 1: You were, specifically, I presume, referring to philosophers in ways 641 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: that they might contribute to the advancing frontier of science 642 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: and your questions the philosophers asked that are just simply 643 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 1: not useful to a scientist, like how do you really 644 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: know the moon is there? To say, well, I have 645 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: light and the well, that's just the light of the moon. 646 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: You know, how about the moon itself, Well, I can measure, well, 647 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: that's just a measurement of the light of them. And 648 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: and you could down many kinds of beer discussing the 649 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: there's another there's a whole there's a chunk of philosophers 650 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: who are asking the question, is it the molecule H 651 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: two oh water? If you isolate a single H to 652 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: a molecule, is that water? Whereas Warter the macroscopic properties 653 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: we give when you have countless numbers of these, and 654 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: then you then it flows and its liquid e And 655 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: you know it's not a liquid, it's not a solid, 656 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: it's it's not anything. So it's a molecule. The philosophers 657 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: arguing this publishing papers on this, and the scientist just 658 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: doesn't have time. The luxury of time. I call them 659 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: beer conversations, conversations where you just sort of question the 660 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: existential conversations about knowledge and life and mind matter. You know, okay, 661 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: but it's not useful in the laboratory. UM let me 662 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: just follow up on that too. I was thinking about 663 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: ethics in terms of philosophy, and many times it comes up. 664 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: So you're talking about out, for instance, bringing back the 665 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: woolly mammoth, or if you're talking about artificial intelligence, you're 666 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: talking about ethics. They're um making certain that some sort 667 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: of piece of technology isn't gonna show up on the 668 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: black market. How much of that should science be concerned 669 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: with before after the creation the possibility. So I'm curious 670 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: whether there is a negative argument to cloning a mammoth 671 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: other than no, it's extinct, will leave it extinct? You know, 672 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't someone's going to clone a mammoth. 673 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: You know, you get the tissue out of the glacier 674 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: as the glacier melt, because all our glaciers are melting, 675 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: so all kinds of fun I say, creatures are going 676 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: to be spilling out of that glacier glacier probably a 677 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: few caveman while we're at it, and so, yeah, we 678 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: have the power to clone it. Somebody's going to clone it. 679 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: Now to ask what the ethics of that is, I 680 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 1: think there's there are more interesting ethical questions that are 681 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: in front of us. And whether we clone in mammoth like, 682 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, cloning people who are cloning or creating deadly viruses. 683 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: You know, that could be used genocidally. I mean, so 684 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: if you had to rank the topics top to bottom, 685 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 1: you know what we do with the mammoths. I don't 686 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: think people are going to protest. I agree. I think 687 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: that what I'm thinking about is how much of the 688 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: scientists concern him or herself when they are going through 689 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: the motions of what is possible, what can be created? 690 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: Is this out of the realm of scientists? Should they 691 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: concentrate on what is possible? And you know, does the 692 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: just society create the ethics? Does should there be any 693 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: sort of overlapping there is that? Is that a job 694 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: that the scientists would think about ethics? Yeah, that's an 695 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 1: excellent point. I think it's the job of the scientists 696 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: as a citizen to think about it. You know, all 697 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: citizens should be thinking about the ethical conduct of the species. 698 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: And fortunately, at leave there's been some good investment in this, 699 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: in this along these lines over the decades and over 700 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: the centuries, so that there's half actually been ethical shifts 701 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: in our conduct over the years. Right. You know, their 702 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: books written on how to treat your slave ethically, and 703 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: they don't address the question of why you would have 704 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: a slave in the first place. Right, So, so fortunately 705 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 1: there's a collective sense of what is good and what 706 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: is right that is not anchored in some time past 707 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: where the needs and the conduct of what was considered 708 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 1: reprehensible behavior, reprehensible behavior of the past defended by whatever 709 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 1: documents people had or whatever their upbringing was. That the 710 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: stuffing that does not carry into the future. I'm glad 711 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: for that, right, I am free because of that. So 712 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: so that's fine. So I think the ethics can be 713 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: an evolving conversation. I'm old enough to remember all this 714 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: conversation about um in vitro fertilization, the first test tube baby. 715 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: Should we isn't you know? Now? It's it doesn't even 716 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't even make a news story if someone is 717 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: born from a test tube it's a non story and 718 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: so but at the time people know it's the ethics 719 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: of this, and it's like, you know, chill out, you know, 720 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: just try to think it through and you know, look 721 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: at the benefits and is there a downside that isn't religion? 722 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 1: You know, religion is always telling you what you shouldn't do. 723 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: And so if your only revival is religion and you 724 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: haven't really thought it through rationally, then you're missing some 725 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: further conversations that should be had about what goes on. 726 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: There's something else that's true that that needs to be 727 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: on the table. That science fiction writers are awesome at 728 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: depicting futures where science goes bad, and they create terrifying 729 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: images of nuclear energy gone bad. You know, uh, just 730 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: cloning gone bad. Um uh, virus has gone bad. And 731 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,720 Speaker 1: and I'm happy to report that there has never been 732 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: science gone bad by the efforts of mad scientists who 733 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: wants to take over the world. But we really have 734 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: to watch out for our mad politicians, right even the 735 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 1: Adam bomb as ass Yes, that was the whole set 736 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: of complicit physicist who made that bomb, there's no doubt 737 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: about it. But somebody paid their way. Somebody wrote their paycheck. 738 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: Somebody funded that entire enterprise, and those are governments. Those 739 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: the congress, that is the electorate, that is a president, 740 00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: that is a president's cabinet, somebody else by geopolitical forces 741 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: are deciding what they want to do with the science, 742 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: and you will you will never find scientists leading armies 743 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: to invade other countries. It's just not what we do. 744 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: So the the the ethical conduct is not so much 745 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,800 Speaker 1: of what a science just does, but how does the 746 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: society react to the discoveries of science, And that needs 747 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 1: to be a in the Some over lap there, of course, 748 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: between the two. But ethics is a cultural problem, not 749 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: simply that of what a scientist does. Almost every scientific 750 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: discovery that we've ever found has extraordinary benefit to humankind. 751 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: Extraordinary the early days of of of nuclear physics, where 752 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: we found radioactive materials, and Marie carry died of some 753 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of cancer. I think it was leukemia, surely as 754 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: a result of her playing around with radium named because 755 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: of his radioactive properties. There's an entire branch of medicine 756 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: called radiology, which is the benefits of the investments of 757 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: physicists who are trying to understand nature at its most 758 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: most basic level, so extraordinary benefits to society await us 759 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: by every scientific discovery. Uh that is to come, history 760 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 1: tells us. Okay, well, that concludes the interview. I hope 761 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: that you guys have enjoyed that. Again, thank you guys 762 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: for giving us some great questions for him to answer. 763 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: And uh, I think we have time for a bit 764 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: of mail here. Let's see. Let's call the robot over. 765 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: Oh okay, we heard from listener Adam, and Adam writes 766 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: then with an email title discovering Nutmeg in India, of course, 767 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: responding to our episode that we did on the science 768 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: and history of nutmeg. He says, Hey, guys, I went 769 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: on a tour of Kerala's backwaters basically huge waterways that 770 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: people live alongside, and we went to a spice farm. 771 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: Guess what was there? Meg? My first thought was your 772 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: podcast about nutmeg last year. As the guide explained it, 773 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: he went part by part. The red part inside is 774 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: called mace in the local language and is extremely expensive. 775 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,760 Speaker 1: It's used in Indian dishes like very Yanni. The best part, however, 776 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,720 Speaker 1: it was when he described how you could get a 777 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,879 Speaker 1: quote unquote kick from eating too much nutmeg. I don't 778 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: think the others understood, but thanks to your podcast, I 779 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: knew exactly what he meant. Thanks again and keep up 780 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: the great work. Some pictures from the two were attached 781 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,359 Speaker 1: with the nutmeg at the bottom. And Adam, of course 782 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 1: is the chief Happiness Officer who has been traveling around 783 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: the world and and regularly writes into our podcast and 784 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,840 Speaker 1: a few other house tofforks podcasts as well, and you 785 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: can find out more about what he's up to at 786 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 1: happiness plunge dot com. But yeah, he sent us a 787 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: number of these pictures and as always, just fascinating glimpse 788 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: into his travels. Yeah, I love that to the the 789 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,439 Speaker 1: tour guide had a little wink wink nudge nutge because 790 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: they're referring to the hallucinogenic properties of nutmeg, which we've 791 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: probably said us a million times by now not worth it. Uh. 792 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: If anybody is like, wow, that has hallucinatory properties, that 793 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: is not the stuff that anybody really wants to play with, 794 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: I should say. We also heard from a couple of 795 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 1: listeners out there who were really taken by our our 796 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: episodes that dealt with the shadow self as it relates 797 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: to well. In one episode of Pro Wrestling in the 798 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: other episode, we talked about undercover cops who have a 799 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: false identity that they're using, and also actors and method 800 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: or otherwise that are that have to put cloak themselves 801 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,399 Speaker 1: in some level of fiction in order to do their thing. 802 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: So we heard from Josephine Josephine Wrightson and says, Hi, 803 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: Robert and Julie, I really enjoyed your last episode on 804 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: the self and the roles we play. I really enjoy 805 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: your podcast your other podcast as well, of course, and 806 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: had a couple of things to contribute to the discussion. First, 807 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: I went and listened to Bandy Newton's Ted Talk, and 808 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: at one point she mentions feeling that she didn't have 809 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: a self since she was able to play other people 810 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: so well. That reminded me of another actor who supposedly 811 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: felt the same way, Peter Sellers on the subject of 812 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,959 Speaker 1: playing characters as an actor, myself, I find it best 813 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,920 Speaker 1: to take some method step to get to the right 814 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: place emotionally. But I find the strangest thing in my 815 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: case is that though I always have my home self, 816 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: whatever character I'm playing at the time usually rubs off 817 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,759 Speaker 1: on me a bit. It's sort of like who I 818 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: normally am is being shown through the lens of another personality. 819 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 1: I remember one character I played, Charles, the second of 820 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: England's Minister nel Gwen, who was very happy and positive, 821 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: had a particular effect on me. And my mom's always 822 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,799 Speaker 1: said that she can come back anytime she likes. Can't 823 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 1: wait to hear your next podcast, Sincerely, Josephine in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 824 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: Very interesting, UM, And I can't help but think of personality. 825 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: It's sort of like a prism and it kind of 826 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,320 Speaker 1: depends on which direction the light is hitting it and 827 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: which you exhibit whatever feelings or personality at that time. Um. 828 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before, about how it's related 829 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: to consciousness and the unconscious, so again it's it's very 830 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: interesting to me to know that personality isn't something that 831 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,799 Speaker 1: is always a stable thing. You really have to work 832 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: out it because it's part of that instruction of our reality. 833 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: We also heard from a listener by the name of Stephanie. 834 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 1: Stephanie writes in and says hello, Robert and Julie, greetings 835 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: from Toronto. Another one and she's responding to the same episode, 836 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 1: So there you go. I wonder if they know each other. Um, 837 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: she says, I recently enjoyed listening to your episode on 838 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,320 Speaker 1: undercover Actors in the Shadow sell. You invited undercover agents 839 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 1: and actors to write in and share their experiences of 840 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 1: identity and role playing. While I don't fit either of 841 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,239 Speaker 1: those descriptions, I thought you'd be interested in my perspective 842 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,239 Speaker 1: on the issue, since I suffer from what they might 843 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: be diagnosed as a particularly acute form of imposter syndrome 844 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 1: as a result of the way people respond to my 845 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: outer self. Yes, it's much different from my inner self. 846 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm thirty with a PhD and a tenure track appointment 847 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,839 Speaker 1: at a major Canadian research university, but I look like 848 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,720 Speaker 1: I'm about seventeen, with wide blue eyes and a small 849 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,399 Speaker 1: stature at five two and about a hundred pounds. While 850 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: the situation is well situated for winning the biggest stuffed 851 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,240 Speaker 1: animal prize of the AID, guesting carnival booth, and convincing 852 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: a class of undergraduates that you're a child genius, a 853 00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 1: real life dugie howser, it often just makes me feel 854 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: clause trophobic in my own body. The way I'm treated 855 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: by others never seems to match my sense of self. 856 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,720 Speaker 1: Since starting his faculty at the University. Of this past summer, 857 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: the situation has become its most intense. Each new person 858 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,759 Speaker 1: I meet, students, staff, or fellow faculty member treats me 859 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 1: like a first year student unless I correct them, which 860 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: for the most part, I've given up doing. After encountering 861 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,080 Speaker 1: this response multiple times a day from a range of 862 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,320 Speaker 1: people for the past several months, I'm beginning to feel 863 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,799 Speaker 1: like a young actor playing a grown up role. I'm 864 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 1: not sure if this is just a serious case of 865 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome or whether a more fundamental shift in my 866 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 1: sense of self is happening. Your discussion made me wonder 867 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,080 Speaker 1: what I'd be like, who I'd be if the way 868 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 1: others respond to me had always aligned with my age 869 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: and general intelligence level. I've attached a picture of me 870 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 1: on my honeymoon that illustrates this issue. More evidence available here. 871 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,960 Speaker 1: And then she said a Flickr page, so it love 872 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,879 Speaker 1: the podcast, Stephanie, and I did see that picture, and yes, 873 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 1: she she does come across as very young, and I 874 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: have to say that I understand what she's saying because 875 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,400 Speaker 1: to a certain age I had the same problem. And 876 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: it is a little bit odd because people don't expect 877 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,240 Speaker 1: you to sort of come out as is the person 878 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: that you are. They think that, and not that I'm 879 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,359 Speaker 1: petite and I look like I'm eighteen, because certainly there's 880 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 1: neither one of these. It's true. Uh, but people don't 881 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,879 Speaker 1: always expect, you know, a certain personality to come out. Yeah, 882 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 1: it is. It was a really fascinating email to read, 883 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, to think about. You know, you know what 884 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: what happens when who we feel we are inside is 885 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,839 Speaker 1: out of step with her outer self, be it because 886 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,120 Speaker 1: of our physical appearance, or because the way we end 887 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,279 Speaker 1: up carrying ourselves in the world, or even just how 888 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,759 Speaker 1: we are in first impressions versus how how we really are, 889 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: and you do get into this complex question of who 890 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,360 Speaker 1: are we really you know, well, and especially if you 891 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,799 Speaker 1: look at the studies that say that an infticular, are 892 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,839 Speaker 1: men who are taller tend to have more responsibilities put 893 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 1: upon them and tend to get promoted more, and so 894 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,319 Speaker 1: on and so forth, and that that's a huge generalization. 895 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: But actually I should dig up that study so I 896 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: can talk about it a little bit more in detail. 897 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: But things like that that, you know, color people's perception, 898 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 1: and then the way that you get to operate in 899 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: the world. Uh so if you are that person, or 900 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: if you're not that person, or if you're blonde or 901 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. You know, how, how does 902 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 1: that affect the way that you accept certain responsibility in 903 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: the world or don't accept them. Yeah, I mean, I, um, 904 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,759 Speaker 1: I'm six two or six three, depending on you know, 905 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: how I want to measure myself. I guess I guess 906 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,919 Speaker 1: I'm sixth three, but sometimes I hold it at six 907 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,040 Speaker 1: two because it feels like a good cutting off point. 908 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 1: But you were just promoted to like president of the universe, No, 909 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 1: I think now I grow my sideburns long and so that, like, 910 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:28,959 Speaker 1: you know, people might see me and they're like, who's 911 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,719 Speaker 1: that tall guy. We should promote him to a level 912 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: of incompetence, and then they do my sideburns and they're 913 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: like maybe not, maybe not. You just cited the Peter principle, 914 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,440 Speaker 1: did I know? Yeah? Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, 915 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,840 Speaker 1: I mean I have been there to varying degrees in 916 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: the past. Before I want up here and groom my 917 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,279 Speaker 1: side burns out. So yeah, you've been to the Peter principle. Well, 918 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: I have found myself being when I was in newspapers. 919 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: I found myself gaining more and more responsibilities that I 920 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,279 Speaker 1: didn't really want or enjoy and or or even was 921 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,759 Speaker 1: necessarily that good at them. But yeah, no, I think 922 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,920 Speaker 1: every buddy has stepped into Peter's suit at one time 923 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,520 Speaker 1: or another. So my advice is grow your cideburns out 924 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: everyone ladies too. Yeah, I say, I'm with my mind 925 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: all right. Well, if you have anything you would like 926 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:11,880 Speaker 1: to share with us, be it about this whole you 927 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 1: can undrew we were just talking about related itself, about 928 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,920 Speaker 1: the shadow self, and if you have any feedback or 929 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,000 Speaker 1: anything to add regarding the neotographed Tyson interview, we'd love 930 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,400 Speaker 1: to hear from you again. It was a tremendous treat 931 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: to speak with Dr Tyson, and I really enjoy getting 932 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,919 Speaker 1: to share your questions with him. So I really think 933 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,959 Speaker 1: from now on, whenever it's it's possible, I will reach 934 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,320 Speaker 1: out to people on Facebook and let you guys contribute 935 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: at least some of the questions for our our interviews. 936 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: So if you want to do that, if you want 937 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 1: to find us on Facebook and follow us so that 938 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,280 Speaker 1: you can be on top of that. Um again, Facebook, 939 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,400 Speaker 1: we are stuff to blow your mind. We're also stuff 940 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,560 Speaker 1: to blow your Mind on Tumbler and on Twitter. We 941 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,080 Speaker 1: go by the handle below the Mind, and you can 942 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,120 Speaker 1: always drop us a line at blow the Mind at 943 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com For more on this and thousands of 944 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:03,839 Speaker 1: other topics. Does it how stuff works out? Up? Could 945 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:04,000 Speaker 1: e