1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: What's up you guys. It's Kelly and yes again, we 2 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: are going through it in Nashville. We have had a 3 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: massive winter storm and both Chip and I have lost power, 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: so we are staying well, I'm staying at a friends. 5 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: Chip is running on a generator. We don't have service. 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: It's just kind of been an hectic, crazy time. So 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna have some favorite episodes up for you guys 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: this week, and we will definitely be back next week. 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: We are determined with our new interviews. I'm gonna be 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: back with Marv because we're talking a lot about the 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: astrology for February. As I'm sure most of you are feeling, 12 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: there is just so much happening and it is literally 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: being spelled out in the astrology. So he's gonna tell 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: us kind of what this is here to show us 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: and then what's to come, because the chaos is not 16 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: going to go away anytime soon. So it's just a 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: really good way to learn to work with it so 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like it's just working you. So anyway, 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: those things are coming next week. Chip and I will 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: also be back. I really hope you guys enjoy these 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: episodes this week. The topics are about confrontation, and it 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: felt very timely, if you will, just because of so 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: much of the stuff going on in Minneapolis and just 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: around the world. There's so much conflict and confrontation, and 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: sometimes I think it's a good point for us to 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: sit back and remember how to communicate and confront and 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: do things from a place of love, from an adult mindset, 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: even if you're angry, to channel your anger into something productive. 29 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: It's been helpful to me. So I'm going to repost 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: these two podcasts and hope you guys get something out 31 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: of it as well. Be back next week. Hope you 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: guys are all hanging in there. Bye. Psychod therapist and 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: author of The Boundary Boss Terry Clark is back. Hi. 34 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: Terry, Hi, nice to see you again. 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: Nice to see you too. So the last time we 36 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: were here, we did talk a lot about clear communication 37 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: and just having boundaries in communication, how important that was 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: for our relationships, and I was just filling you in 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: that this month, we've been talking about the word confront 40 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: So initially, when we started talking about that, I thought, 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: who can I have on to talk about healthy confrontation 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: because it's so interesting to me as adults. I feel 43 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: like we have this instinct that that's going to be 44 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: one of the things that we just know how to do. 45 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: And it seems like, and maybe this is personal to me, 46 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: but I feel it with my friends too, that a 47 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: lot of us really struggle in relationships and this can 48 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: be work friendships, romantic relationships, on how to have healthy confrontation, 49 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: like how to talk about the hard things? How do 50 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: we do that? Why do you think that's so hard 51 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: for us? 52 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: I think it's very similar to why it's difficult for 53 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: us to establish boundaries, because really they're in a lot 54 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: of ways, they're one and the same. And it's because 55 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: think about the way we're raised. Did anyone value this? 56 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: Did anyone teach us how to have hard conversations? Or 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: did they teach us to smile and suck it up 58 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: and be a good girl and turn that front around? 59 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 2: And if you don't have anything nice to say, I 60 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 2: don't say anything at all. Those are most of the 61 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: things that we were taught. So this is a skill 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: that if nobody taught it to you, how the heck 63 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: would you know how to do it? And it really 64 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: gets a bad rap, Like I always changed confrontation when 65 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 2: I'm with my therapy clients. I'll say, let's just think 66 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: about this as communication, okay, right, because confrontation is so charged. 67 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah from the get like, we don't even start yet, 68 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: and we're like confrontation. Who somebody's in trouble. There's going 69 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: to be a fight. I'm going to be mad, they're 70 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: going to be mad. It's like starting a conversation with 71 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: we need to talk. Yeah, literally, nobody ever wants to 72 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: talk to you. So I like to remove all of 73 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: that charge and think about healthy confrontation as really one 74 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: and the same as healthy communication. Whether what you're communicating 75 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: is positive, or whether it's frustrated, or whether it's angry, 76 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: these are all parts of healthy communication. It isn't just 77 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: let's just communicate the good things. So in a way, 78 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: I just ask you to reframe your mindset everybody listening 79 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 2: from confrontation, because it sounds so like we're going to 80 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: be provoked into a fight. When the truth, when you 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: need to tell someone the truth about something, even if 82 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: it's a hard truth, what is on the other side 83 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: of that is so can be so satisfying, can be 84 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: relationship changing, can be you changing or them changing. Ye. 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: I don't want it to be vilified because it's something 86 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: that is so important when you are building healthy relationships, 87 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: healthy businesses, healthy friendships, healthy family relationships, all of it 88 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: is being able to have these difficult conversations. 89 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: It's so interesting as you were talking, I was thinking 90 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: that there's this thing in maybe my head and maybe 91 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: some other people's head that I've had conversations with where 92 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: I feel like we have this idea of life or 93 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: relationships or interacting with people where we only want the good. 94 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: And you hit on such an important topic. I think that, like, 95 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: we can't evolve or grow if we don't face the 96 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 1: other things that happen to us as humans, the hard, 97 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: the bad, the sad, that any of those emotions, but 98 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: we're very averse to that, or that seems to be 99 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: the instinct that popped into my head. Do you see 100 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: that a lot with clients, that we're just like, we're 101 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: only wanting the good, and so that makes having the 102 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: difficult conversations more difficult. 103 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: Definitely, And I see this sort of falling into the 104 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: category of hyper positivity and bypassing where we see this online, 105 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: you know, where people are like only good vibes, Yeah, like, hi, 106 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: that's you can't be a human unplanet Earth and have 107 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: only good vibes, right, it's not real and trying to 108 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: make anger something that's pathological or something that's wrong, or 109 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: you're not spiritual enough if you get angry and you're 110 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: like so as a therapist, of course, I know that 111 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: that is impossible. It's also not aspirational because it is 112 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: through the hard conversations, the honest conversations, that we deepen 113 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: the intimacy in our lives. And it can be small things, 114 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: you know. This was something that happened many years ago. 115 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: My husband and I were first together where we lived 116 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: in Elizabeth, New Jersey, and I would take the train 117 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 2: into the city and he would come pick me up. 118 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 2: And if I would get off the train and I 119 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: would look over because it was like the parking lot 120 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: was down below, and if his car was there, I 121 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: was so excited and so happy, and if his car 122 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: wasn't there, I would be really upset. Now, in my 123 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: own mind, I was like, this doesn't make sense because 124 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: he was never very late. He would be like I'd 125 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: be standing down there for like thirty seconds or a 126 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: minute before he would come. But for whatever reason, it 127 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: would really hurt my feelings and even in my own mind, 128 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: I was like, this is like a you thing, like 129 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: this doesn't even make sense. He's not even really late. 130 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: But I didn't have that awareness at that exact moment, 131 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: so I would sort of be pissy in the car 132 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: and a little bit withdrawn and a little bit like 133 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: how was your day? Fine, like one word answers if 134 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: he was if he wasn't there when I got there, 135 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: And then finally I decided, oh my god, I have 136 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: to tell him because he's the nicest guy. I love him. 137 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: We don't fight about anything, but why he doesn't know 138 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: this or he wouldn't be late? Yeah, And I just said, hey, 139 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: I'm having this weird experience. And I explained when I 140 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: just explained to you, I would love it so much 141 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 2: if you could just put in that little extra effort 142 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: to be here when the train pulls in, because it 143 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: makes me feel so loved and so happy. And he 144 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: was like, no problem. Okay. Now he's a little rare, 145 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: and he's older than me and he's probably had a 146 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: lot of therapy, Like yeah, yeah, he wasn't defensive, he 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: didn't question, but I also the way that I said it, 148 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: I was like, listen, I'm not blaming you, Yeah, I 149 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: don't even understand, yeah, why this is my reaction. But 150 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: I know if you knew how it made me feel, 151 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: you wouldn't want me to feel that way. Yeah, And 152 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: he was like, you're one hundred percent right, I don't 153 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: want you to feel that way. And he's that was 154 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 2: twenty five years ago. The guy has never been late since. 155 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: But that's something that could be quote unquote a confrontation, 156 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: meaning I could have gone to make him wrong. That's 157 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: what a confrontation sounds like. What we had was communication. 158 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: We had a conversation where I also had the ability 159 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: to own the fact that it was a me thing, 160 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 2: yet knowing he would having faith, hoping that he would 161 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: care that it hurt my feelings for some weird reason. 162 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: So my thought about relationships and communication and why the 163 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: story I shared the story is that my husband doesn't 164 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: have to always understand why I feel the way I feel, 165 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: but he really does have to always care. Yeah, and 166 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: that rule is for me as well. So I think 167 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: in relationships we want to think about them that way. 168 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: It's not a right or wrong when you think of 169 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: a confrontation or when I do, I think of people 170 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: being like, well, this is why you're wrong, and this 171 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: is why what I did was the right thing. What 172 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: you did is the wrong thing. And I think that 173 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: if we change the frame on that to be instead 174 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: of you against me, it's you and me against the problem. 175 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: Like try to get on board with your partner or 176 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: with anyone. Yeah, with anyone that I'm having a conflict 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: with or that I have to have a hard conversation with. 178 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: I always try to start that interaction with Listen, I 179 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: love you. I have no doubt we're going to figure 180 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: this out, but I have to tell you it hurt 181 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: my feelings, or I was upset, or I wasn't okay 182 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 2: that you took my thing without asking or whatever. It is, Like, 183 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: you can always start a conversation with if it's someone 184 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: you love with sweetness, with truth, reminding them and you that, 185 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: like we love each other right, actually want to come 186 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: to terms hopefully. 187 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean, I hear a lot. There's 188 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: so many things that just popped up for me that 189 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: I want to touch on, And one is the not 190 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: blame piece, because I think that that is the quickest 191 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: reaction as a human that we have, is like they're 192 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: doing something wrong. And the other piece of that that 193 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: maybe you could touch on in this question would be 194 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: you mentioned anger, and I think a lot of us 195 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: have also been taught, especially as women, were taught like 196 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: that is not an emotion that is okay to express, 197 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, and especially if like you express it in 198 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: a way that's angry, Like it's not like what you said. 199 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: It seems like you got a little more comfortable with 200 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: not figuring it out and you were just like, hey, 201 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: I don't know why this is coming up. That was 202 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: very calm in that presentation. But what if we feel 203 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: angry and we're reacting that way, you know? And I 204 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: think when we're angry, it's very easy to just go, 205 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: you did something wrong, yep, this is about the way 206 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: you're you're late all the time, this makes me upset. Whatever. 207 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: So one I guess would be how do we get 208 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: comfortable with the emotion of anger? And then two? 209 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 2: No, no, stay with one, stay with that, Okay, forget one. 210 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll go with one, and then we'll get to too. 211 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: Part of it is you have to stop vilifying it 212 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: in your own mind, okay, Right, you have a right 213 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: as do other people to be angry. Where boundaries come 214 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: in is that we have to have agreements in healthy 215 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: relationships about how we will express and share our anger. 216 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: So I'm really big on teaching couples how to fight fairly, Okay, 217 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: how to We've got to have some rules of engagement 218 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: around what we're going to do when we're mad, okay, right, 219 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: because people feel like a lot of times couples will 220 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: justify well, I was so angry. That doesn't justify name calling, 221 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,239 Speaker 2: throwing stuff up from the past to hurt your partner intentionally, 222 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: kitchen sinking it where you're like, and this other thing 223 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: was getting on my nerves, and these other forty or 224 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: four things. We have to stick to one thing. So 225 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: I have a whole list and we can go over 226 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 2: them of how to fight fairly okay. And here's the thing. 227 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: You can absolutely be angry and not blame you can. 228 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: I think that this being blaming and defensiveness are two 229 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: of the biggest blocks to healthy communication. So meaning be 230 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: explosive anger, right, anger and then being abusive anger and 231 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: then being petty being mean like lashing out to hurt 232 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: your partner. Now, that's none of that is constructive. We 233 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: know this. But you can definitely be angry and say, hey, 234 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 2: I'm really pissed that you're you've been late after I 235 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: talked to you about it. Let's just say if that 236 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: were the case, because I was vulnerable to you and 237 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: I talked to you about it, and now it tells 238 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 2: me you don't care about the way that I feel 239 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 2: and I'm pissed. You know, like we can be angry 240 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: and not be you you you. So part of it 241 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,359 Speaker 2: is you have to understand your own downloaded confrontation blueprint. 242 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: We can. 243 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, what did did you learn in your family 244 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 2: of origin? How did people fight? Did they fight? In 245 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: my family? Everything was very waspy and suppressed and underground. 246 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: So anger was definitely a forbidden emotion. 247 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. 248 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: So what happens when you have anger as a forbidden 249 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: emotion is that you you naturally unconsciously turn your own 250 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: anger into something else. You turn it inward. It feels 251 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: like depression. I would I would be sad. I would 252 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: always be okay to say I was upset, because that 253 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: was an acceptable emotion. But it's not satisfying or honest 254 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: to say I am upset when I am actually pissed. 255 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,119 Speaker 2: They're different feelings, You're not we're not being seen accurately. 256 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: But I didn't have anyone teaching me how to manage 257 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: my anger. So I learned, of course, in many years 258 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: of therapy, how to do it, and that it's important. 259 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: This is an emotion. We don't have the skill or 260 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: the powers human beings to just decide we're not doing it. 261 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: I don't do anger, you don't great. That's not something 262 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: you can actually opt out of. It's not like somebody's 263 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: mailing list. You're going to have that feeling. The question 264 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: is can you learn to honor it? And the answer 265 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: is you can. 266 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: Well, you do so much work on boundaries, and like, 267 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: isn't it true that sometimes our anger is just communicating 268 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: to us that we need a boundary there, Like we 269 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: need we're bumping up against something that isn't working for. 270 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: Us without a doubt. Which is why I always tell 271 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: you to do a resentment inventory when you start this 272 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: process of wanting to need more truthful in your life 273 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: and you're like, I don't know where to start with 274 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: my boundaries or with my confronting or whatever it is 275 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: we're talking about. Yeah, And I always say I do 276 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: have resentment inventory, because that can be a guide, a 277 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: little GPS to show you where either a boundary is needed, 278 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: or a boundary is being violated or in need of 279 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: some kind is not being met. And so that will 280 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: give you literally like the top three relationships in your 281 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: life that need your attention, because we all know the 282 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: players in our life. We have easier people and we 283 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: have harder people. Yeah, and yet we can still really 284 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: love the harder people. We just have to grow the 285 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: skills to have the confrontation, to have the conversation that 286 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: needs to be had. 287 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's talk about the harder people then, because 288 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: you just mentioned them and this kind of ties in 289 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: the second question I was going to ask, is a 290 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: little bit just about the blame, which I think you 291 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: pretty much covered and touched on with the harder people. 292 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: How do we know you know when it is time 293 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: to continue trying to grow our communication skills in this relationship, 294 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: when it's time to just stop, because this is a 295 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: one sided healthy communication situation. Like got what I hear 296 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: with your husband was you kind of put it back 297 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: on you. You figured out, Hey, this is about me. 298 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't really know why, but this is what's happening 299 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: for me. He heard you, he did he'd change the behavior, 300 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: And you guys were able to let it go and 301 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: move on because of that. And so that's like a 302 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: reciprocal situation. But what if you're finding yourself in a 303 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: situation where the reason maybe you don't want to confront 304 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: something is because it hasn't been met like that, Like 305 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: how do we navigate those the tough people and the 306 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: tough situations. 307 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: Well, sometimes we just have to say what it is. 308 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: So it's not a strategy more than it is a 309 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 2: truth telling okay, where it's like let's say that you're 310 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 2: you're talking about the difficult person and now there's something 311 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: you have to talk about with them. You can say, 312 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 2: you know, I've really worked on our relationship to tell 313 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: you the things that hurt me or that bother me. 314 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: And I have to say, I'm disappointed because I feel 315 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: like I get met with a lot of defensiveness with 316 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: no change behavior, and it really makes me feel I'm loved. 317 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 2: And I have to say I think it's actually this 318 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: dynamic is really threatening the relationship, Like I don't see 319 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: wanting to do this dance forever. So the person, even 320 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: if they react and say you're threatening me, you're trying 321 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 2: to give me an ultimatum. If you are telling the truth. 322 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: At least you know you're doing your part. And they 323 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: may come back afterwards that may be on a wake 324 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 2: up call for them. We don't know. And if they 325 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: say you're threatening me, you can say no, I actually 326 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: love you enough to tell you the truth about how 327 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: these interactions are impacting the way I feel about you. Yeah, 328 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: something doesn't change, I'm going to end the relationship. 329 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: Basically, we talked a little bit about codependency or not 330 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: a little bit. We talked a lot about it last time, 331 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: and you called me out one time because you're like, oh, 332 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: there she is. I see that codependency. And I think 333 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: one of the things that I struggle with with the 334 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, working through my people pleasing strategies, is that 335 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: sometimes it almost feels easier if it's a difficult person 336 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: in your life to not speak up. Like what you 337 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: just said sounds very complex and complicated to me with 338 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: certain people I can think of. So when the risk 339 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: feels better, I mean like more there feels like there's 340 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: more at stake with the risk than the reward. What 341 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: are things we can work on within ourselves with that, 342 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: Like if you feel like you can't bring it up 343 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: to them, you know, yep. 344 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: But there's other ways you can. You can write a letter, 345 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: you can write an email. You can if it's too 346 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 2: threatening to do it in person because the person is 347 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 2: difficult in that way, or they're like a lawyer and 348 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: they'll like try to talk you out of it. So yeah, 349 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: a lot of times with my clients, I'll have them 350 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: write down what they want to say, like actually write 351 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: it out, and then to the person, if you want 352 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: to involve them that way, you can say, listen, I've 353 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: written something because I find it difficult, I lose track 354 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: of what I'm saying, and I really would love for 355 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: you to let me finish what I have to say, 356 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: and then I'm all ears for what you your response 357 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: to it, and then you can read and if they 358 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: go to interrupt, you can go nope, put your full 359 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: hand out in the stop position and it's like, please 360 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 2: let me finish. This is really hard for me, but 361 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: you're important to me and this relationship is important to me, 362 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 2: and I want you to know how I feel. And 363 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 2: here's the thing I'm not saying. We keep barking up 364 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 2: like the wrong tree. Some people. You have to decide 365 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: what are your deal breakers? Right? If you remember the 366 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: way we look at boundaries or your preferences, your desires, 367 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: your limits, and your deal breakers, and if there isn't 368 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: any payoff in the relationship itself, if the person doesn't 369 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: allow you to change, if they keep relating to you 370 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: the way you used to be, if they keep wanting 371 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: you to be the way you used to be, if 372 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 2: they're hypercritical, if they're abusive, if they're name calling, if 373 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 2: they're alcoholic, whatever. Like, there's a million reasons that we 374 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 2: outgrow relationships. But you'll never regret unless the person is violent. 375 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: And if they are violent, then none of this advice. 376 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: The only thing that matters is your safety, right. Yeah, 377 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: but if they're not, you won't regret asserting yourself to 378 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: be accurately seen in the relationship because that's where your 379 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 2: growth is. It is not about what they do. It's 380 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 2: about how asserting yourself and having the courage to do 381 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 2: that changes you. 382 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I want to talk about how to fight fairly, 383 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: But I have one more question about difficult people because 384 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: I completely it's like starting to resonate in my life 385 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: about what you're saying as far as my romantic relationships 386 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: and my friendships go. And I do think I can 387 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: look back in the past and see how I contributed 388 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,479 Speaker 1: to some unhealthy confrontation because of my you know, just 389 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: wanting things to be peaceful, being scared of anger in 390 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: certain ways, or then exploding like all of those things. 391 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: But the word you just said that triggered this thought 392 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: for me was the word payoff, like if there's no 393 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: or payout, if there's no payout in the relationship for you. 394 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: So when we're in a work situation, obviously you're being paid. 395 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: So this gets tricky, I think with confrontation because it 396 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: threatens your security a little bit to say like, do 397 00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? 398 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: But what matters in the work thing is they're a 399 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: power differential or not. So the way that you're going 400 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: to handle confrontation or conflict with your boss, yeah, who 401 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: has the power to fire you correct, will be different 402 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: than the way you would handle it with a subordinate 403 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: you have the power to fire, or with a coworker 404 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 2: where you have equal power to not fire each other. 405 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 2: So we always have to go into those situations thinking 406 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: about that. It depends on what you need to have 407 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 2: a conversation about. Right, is it that you've been waiting 408 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: for a raise you've been promised a raise, you haven't 409 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: gotten a raise, and you need to bring up that conversation. Right. 410 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: I don't consider that a confrontation, but it is bringing 411 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: up a topic that might be uncomfortable because I promised 412 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: and they didn't do it. And you can say, hey, 413 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 2: I wanted to circle back to a conversation about my conversation. 414 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: Let me know when is a good time for you. You 415 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 2: can send an email that says that, yeah, you know, 416 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: we're making an assumption that sooner or later they're going 417 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: to have the conversation about the increase with you that 418 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: they said that they would. And you don't start that 419 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 2: by saying, well, you promised me this six months ago, 420 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 2: or you never keep your word, or you're a terrible boss, 421 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 2: right because we're still hoping we're going to get the money. 422 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 2: So you have to be strategic when it comes to 423 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: especially where someone has power over you, and you want 424 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: to be thoughtful where you have power over someone else, 425 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: Like it's not appropriate for you to share your heartbreak 426 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 2: with your boss or your subordinate, perhaps a coworker if 427 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: you're friendly. So again, those are personal boundaries too, where 428 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: we think about who should know what about your life. 429 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 2: How do we go about You don't abuse your position 430 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 2: over a subordinate because that's wrong to do. So you 431 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: don't threaten them even though I could. Right, it's being mindful. 432 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: I actually have power over this person, so I need 433 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: to act accordingly and not be threatening because it's not 434 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: being a good boss. So I think that people have 435 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: to look at what is the situation they have and 436 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 2: if it is with the boss, is it something that 437 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: should go to HR, should you go to human resources? 438 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: Or are you being sexually harassed? That's different than not 439 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 2: getting the raise at the time they said they would 440 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: give it to you, So it depends. Again, we're looking 441 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 2: at what's a preference, what's a desire, what's a limit, 442 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: and what's an actual non negotiable deal breaker. 443 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: Okay, that helps that that makes sense. Well. The last 444 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,959 Speaker 1: question I'll ask you then is because I did want 445 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: to talk to you a little bit about just tools 446 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: and practices that we can use, and you've touched on 447 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: a couple of those. But you did mention you have 448 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: a list of how to fight fairly, so give us 449 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: give us the jeez. 450 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: Well, start with no kitchen sinking it, as I said before, 451 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: So if you're talking through one issue at a time. 452 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: You're going to stick to that issue. It's not fair 453 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: or effective to throw in the last ten years. The 454 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: shit you didn't say for ten years is not appropriate 455 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: to be Like, sit down, I'm going to talk to 456 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 2: you for four hours about all the things that are 457 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: wrong with you. Okay, keep in your mind. We really 458 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 2: want to choose to be loving over being right, because honestly, 459 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 2: you can't be both. That's oh it is, but you've 460 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 2: got to really want it and you both have to 461 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: sort of be in agreement. And this is where the 462 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 2: you and me against the problem instead of you against me. Like, 463 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: really think about that alone. If you adopted that with 464 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 2: your partner, if you fight, that would change your relationship 465 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: to go. We're on the same team always. Yeah, it's 466 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: always you and me against this misunderstanding. You and me 467 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: against this pattern of behavior that is not what's best 468 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: for us as a couple. So that's a shift in mindset. 469 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 470 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: Number three, make sure you're using eye statements to communicate 471 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 2: your experience. This is where we avoid the you you 472 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 2: you so avoid blaming, avoid judging, pointing out how bad, stupid, 473 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 2: or insensitive they were. It's super counterproductive and not effective. 474 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: They don't Nobody's going to be like, oh cool, thanks 475 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,479 Speaker 1: for telling me that. 476 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome, it's all my fault. 477 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 478 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 2: Also, take a break, take a breath, right, really think 479 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 2: about your fifty percent of the current conflict, Like what 480 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: is my contribution to what has gone on? Because it 481 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: isn't just it's always fifty you and fifty them. 482 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: It has to be Yeah. Yeah. 483 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 2: Number four, give yourself full attention. That means no screens 484 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 2: at all whatsoever, close your laptops, no television on tablets down, 485 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 2: Like trying to talk with the screen between you is 486 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 2: just ridiculous. And people do it, yeah, because it's so. 487 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: It can be stressful, but that is not cool. Don't 488 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: do it. 489 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. 490 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 2: Number five, no interrupting. And this might take practice, but 491 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: it is so worth it to settle in and hear 492 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 2: the other person out and vice versa. It is respectful 493 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: and loving and it really is the key component to 494 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 2: active listening where give each other the expansion. This is 495 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: a lot of Horrible Hendrix's work where he and his 496 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 2: wife Helen of like fifty something years wrote a book 497 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 2: you know, keeping the love you keeping the love you find, 498 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: or finding the love you want. There's a whole bunch 499 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: of different ones, but they created a way of doing therapy. 500 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: And it's a lot about mirroring. Right, you're mirroring the 501 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: other person back, so mirroring what you think they're saying. 502 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: When you've heard the other person out. An effective technique 503 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 2: is to say, if I heard you right, you would 504 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 2: like me to blah blah blah. Did I get that right? I? 505 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: Oh? 506 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: It's so. It so works, yes, And if they say yes, 507 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 2: then you say is there more? 508 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Okay? Is there more? That's a new right, I haven't 509 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: heard that okay. 510 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 2: Meaning so if they say yes, you got it right. 511 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: That's what I was saying, to have your partner say 512 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: is there more? Is there more? You'd like to say 513 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 2: instead of the fighting for airspace, you know, instead of 514 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 2: fighting for that, it's literally giving expansion. And it feels 515 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: so incredible to give an to receive that. 516 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Isn't it true that it's like a basic human 517 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: need that we just need to feel seen and heard? Yes, 518 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: So much of what you're saying is it's that it's 519 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: like learning how to communicate with each other so that 520 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: we can feel seen and heard within our relationships. 521 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: Yes, and feel important. 522 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: And feel important and care for. 523 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you cannot understand why I'm being weird about that, 524 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: but you changing your behavior, which just makes me feel 525 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: incredibly loved. Yeah, and you don't have to understand, right, 526 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: but you do have to give a grip, Like you 527 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: don't have to understand exactly why your partner is the 528 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: way they are, but if something is hurting them or 529 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 2: harming them or hurting their feelings. And I'm not talking 530 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: about stuff that falls under the category of like hardcore control, 531 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 2: because you'll have like people in jealous relationships and they're like, well, 532 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: I don't want you being friends with this person, I 533 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: don't want you going out, I don't want you wearing 534 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: this thing. Like, I'm not talking about that, right because 535 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 2: I feel like that falls more into the category of 536 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: like hyper controlling, as opposed to it's not about your 537 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 2: own boundaries. That really is literally about controlling the other person. 538 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 2: And the last thing I want to say about fair 539 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: fighting is that you have to agree to take a 540 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: time out if it gets too heated. Okay, this is 541 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 2: how you protect the relationship, because when we get too 542 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 2: heated is when we can say things that you can't 543 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: back up. Remember, words can be weapons and when you 544 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 2: say that shit, you cannot unring that bell. You can't. 545 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: So when in doubt, take a break. 546 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: Okay, when in doubt take a break. I'm going to 547 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: make a chance about that in my head. Well, the 548 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: book is called The Boundary. It's called Boundary Boss, The 549 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: Essential Guide to Talk, True, be seen, and finally live free. 550 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: I'll put that in the description of this podcast for you, guys. 551 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: I have to say, and I told you this before 552 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: the podcast. I got so many messages after the first 553 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: podcast of people who ordered the book and were re 554 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: and just like this is helping me so much, just 555 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: how it's breaking down the because sometimes I think we 556 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: overcomplicate it and you and your book make it very 557 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: clear on how to set a boundary, how to communicate. 558 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: So people are loving that. I'll put that in the 559 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: description of this podcast for you, guys, Terry, where else 560 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: can people find you? Oh, and do you have anything 561 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: else going on that we need to know about? 562 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? I do, I do. I actually have. Let's see, 563 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: I have a workbook coming out. So the Boundary Boss 564 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,719 Speaker 2: workbook is not coming out till the fall, but that's 565 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: pretty exciting. And then in August. In August, I have 566 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 2: the mother Wound course which is starting the beginning of August, 567 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 2: so you can find all of that information at Terrychole 568 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: dot com. 569 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: Terry Coole dot com. Also check Terry out on Instagram. 570 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: Is it just at Terry Cole It is? Okay? I 571 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: love following you on instac because you'll give the quick 572 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: tips and those are always just really good to get 573 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: through my day. You know, like, sometimes you'll hit a 574 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: tip but I'm like, oh, I wasn't even thinking about that, 575 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: but I need that one. I'll put that in the 576 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: description of this podcast as well. Terry, thank you so 577 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: much for being here with us. I love how you 578 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: break things down. It makes it much easier for my 579 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: brain to comprehend and it feels a little less scary. 580 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: I just feel like this is one of those overwhelming 581 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: topics to a lot of us. 582 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 2: So you got this, Kelly, Thanks for having 583 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: Me all right, thank you for being here, and thank 584 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: you guys for listening.