Speaker 1: It's the son of a bunch of podcasts. We come
Speaker 1: to you every Wednesday. This week talking about last week's
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup with a major champion, someone that's been on
Speaker 1: three Ryder Cup teams, Justin Leonard. He was doing TV
Speaker 1: last week for NBC Golf Channel, so I wanted to
Speaker 1: kind of get his views on everything, and I think
Speaker 1: he's got some great things to talk about, and we
Speaker 1: take a deep dive into kind of everything that happened,
Speaker 1: not only on the European side last week, but on
Speaker 1: the US side as well. But before we get to that,
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Speaker 1: Check it out. My guest today, Justin Leonard. Justin, You've
Speaker 1: done basically everything you can possibly do in the game
Speaker 1: of golf. You won an NCAA Individual Champion, USAM Champ,
Speaker 1: Players Champ, Major champion, played on three Ryder Cups. So
Speaker 1: who better to talk to about the absolute European beatdown?
Speaker 1: And you were doing commentary TV at in Rome. You've
Speaker 1: had a couple of days to kind of process it.
Speaker 1: What the hell if you're on the American side, what
Speaker 1: the hell happened in Rome?
Speaker 2: Well, to me, it looked like, you know, it looked
Speaker 2: like a bunch of the guys hadn't played in a while.
Speaker 2: It looked like there was rust, and sure enough they hadn't.
Speaker 2: I mean, you had nine guys that didn't play a
Speaker 2: tournament for five weeks. And I understand, coming auth of fetics,
Speaker 2: cut playoffs and all that, it's nice to have a
Speaker 2: little bit of a break. You know. Roy mcilray and
Speaker 2: John Rahm had the same schedule and yet they fit
Speaker 2: in the Irish Open the BMW. Uh. It just it
Speaker 2: really looked like it wasn't until Friday morning or afternoon
Speaker 2: when the US side was actually really ready to play.
Speaker 2: You know, Max Hoomer played fortinet, Brooks played. The week
Speaker 2: before the Ryder Cup in Chicago, Justin Thomas played fortinet.
Speaker 2: You know, other than you know, book Brooks and Scotty's
Speaker 2: kind of you know performance and that that uh four
Speaker 2: ball session. You know, I think Brooks played okay, uh
Speaker 2: mix Homa probably was the star of the US side. Uh,
Speaker 2: he played great, and Justin Thomas played, you know, much
Speaker 2: better than he was leading into it. So I think
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit ill prepared. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: you could say that that the cap I mean the
Speaker 2: captain's picks did not have a good record. I think
Speaker 2: it was four wins, twelve losses and a few times.
Speaker 2: You know, when you have six captains picks, uh, those
Speaker 2: guys have to perform. You know. You look at at Rory,
Speaker 2: John Rahm, Victor Hobland, kind of the three stars for
Speaker 2: the European side. Those guys, somebody, I think you told
Speaker 2: me yesterday they won ten or ten and a half points.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rory goes Rory goes four to one, and oh,
Speaker 1: John Rahm goes two, oh and two, and Vic goes
Speaker 1: three to one and one. I did a preview of
Speaker 1: the of the Ryder Cup last week and I said
Speaker 1: that one of the things that I think the Europeans
Speaker 1: historically Justin have done better in the last thirty years
Speaker 1: in the US and the Ryder Cup is they're stars.
Speaker 1: They get points and a lot of points from their superstars. Right,
Speaker 1: so you've got Rory getting four points, You've got John
Speaker 1: Rahm getting two points, you got big. They are the
Speaker 1: three horses, they are the three studs on that team.
Speaker 1: And Rory lost one match and Vic lost one match.
Speaker 1: Otherwise their three superstars dominate and really really show up
Speaker 1: for the Europeans that that seems to be a theme
Speaker 1: just In over the last thirty years. The last time
Speaker 1: the US won a rider Cup on foreign soil the
Speaker 1: Belfry in ninety three. You were on the ninety seven
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup team at Valderrama, Tiger's first one where Tom
Speaker 1: Kite was the captain. Why do you think, Justin, and
Speaker 1: then you've been on two winning Ryder Cup teams Brookline,
Speaker 1: the Miracle at Brookline and then Valhalla when Zinger was
Speaker 1: the captain in two thousand and eight. Why do you think,
Speaker 1: having done it and watched it for thirty years, why
Speaker 1: does it why are we struggling so much away from home?
Speaker 2: It's I think some of it, especially here the last
Speaker 2: you know, twenty eighteen in Paris and then in Rome
Speaker 2: last week. Being able to set up the golf course
Speaker 2: is a huge advantage with all the data and analytics.
Speaker 2: I mean it was a very similar setup I thought
Speaker 2: to Paris. Narrow fairways, really deep, rough, the greens weren't
Speaker 2: like icy, glassy fast, they were just good, and their
Speaker 2: speed was around eleven on a step meter. They set
Speaker 2: the golf course up, I think to kind of take
Speaker 2: away the maybe the style of play that you see
Speaker 2: more in the US these days, which is hit driver
Speaker 2: down there as far as you can, because they don't
Speaker 2: deal with a lot of you know, four and six
Speaker 2: inch rough hit it down there as far as you get.
Speaker 2: You know, if it's in the fairway, great, if it's
Speaker 2: not in the fairway, that's okay too. All the data
Speaker 2: suggests that, and I think that being able to set
Speaker 2: up the golf course where you have to hit the
Speaker 2: ball in the fairway, they you know, they also took
Speaker 2: a lot of wedges out. There weren't a lot of
Speaker 2: holes that were driver wedge or three wood wedge, the
Speaker 2: short holes that would have been played that way. They've
Speaker 2: moved the teas up even further to where now they're drivable.
Speaker 2: And so I think that's another advantage of the US.
Speaker 2: They're used to hitting so many wedges that being able
Speaker 2: to control the golf course set it up the way
Speaker 2: they want to now. I think, you know, in a
Speaker 2: week or so leading up to it, the captains have
Speaker 2: no more say in it. But leading up to that point,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you know Eduard and Molinari, who was
Speaker 2: an assistant vice captain on the European side, he's very
Speaker 2: much in the analytics. I think he was. He was
Speaker 2: probably paramount and helping set up the golf course, analyzing
Speaker 2: both teams and saying, here's our strengths, here's you know,
Speaker 2: the American straints. Let's try and neutralize the other side
Speaker 2: as much as possible. Conversely, when you come to the States,
Speaker 2: you know, you look at the setup at Hazel Teine,
Speaker 2: very little rough hit it down there as far as
Speaker 2: you can, whistling straits, very little rough. You know, pound
Speaker 2: it down there as much as you can, so having
Speaker 2: that and then, like you said, it's the blueprint's been
Speaker 2: there for the European side for a number of years.
Speaker 2: Before Hovland and Rohm and McElroy, it was Poulter, it
Speaker 2: was Westwood, it was Darren Clark. Before that, it was
Speaker 2: Monty Sevy, you know, just on and on, Bernhard Langer.
Speaker 2: So they've always had this really great, kind of top
Speaker 2: heavy group. And then they're supporting players. You know, think
Speaker 2: back to like a Jamie Donaldson or a Javid Gilford
Speaker 2: or you know, this year, Bobby McIntyre and those things.
Speaker 2: You know, those guys they raise the level of their
Speaker 2: game to where it's not just the stars, those kind
Speaker 2: of supporting pieces that may not be involved. Every year,
Speaker 2: you know, they get a point and a half or
Speaker 2: those kind of things. And that's really truly the difference.
Speaker 1: Every time the US gets beat, whether it's in the
Speaker 1: US or in Europe, there's always this kind of pick
Speaker 1: everything apart, try and figure out what went wrong. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people think is they say that it means more to
Speaker 1: the Europeans than it does to the US. And I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily agree, but it does seem like they have
Speaker 1: this ability to raise their game in a way that
Speaker 1: maybe the US team doesn't. And what I mean by
Speaker 1: that is, I mean the running joke, and you've seen this.
Speaker 1: If Sergio Garcia, if Tommy Fleet would, if some of
Speaker 1: these players putt Victor Hovlin, if Vic Putt's the way
Speaker 1: he putted last week, he should be winning majors every
Speaker 1: single year. Right, if you look at the way a
Speaker 1: guy like Sergio Garcia putted throughout his Ryder Cup career,
Speaker 1: he should have more major championships than he does. And
Speaker 1: we were all talking that it just seems like the Europeans,
Speaker 1: for this one week, seemed to have raised their game
Speaker 1: to a completely different level that a lot of these
Speaker 1: players don't play on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at Ian Poulter. I mean, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: he contended in some major championships and he won certainly
Speaker 2: more on the European tour than he did US. But
Speaker 2: I mean in the Ryder Cup, he turns into an
Speaker 2: absolute beast. And then you know, Scotti Scheffler, number one
Speaker 2: player in the world, has been in and around that
Speaker 2: number for the last two years. You know, really struggles
Speaker 2: and it's I can't tell you why that necessarily is.
Speaker 2: I don't think the Ryder Cup necessarily means more to
Speaker 2: the Europeans than it does to the US. I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, every year, it's this this talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: on paper, the US should win and all these things,
Speaker 2: and it just it doesn't seem to happen that often. Now,
Speaker 2: you know, you go back two years ago to Whistling
Speaker 2: Straits and it was a pretty dominant performance and I
Speaker 2: think that's kind of what we expected from that team
Speaker 2: versus you know, maybe an overmatched European side. But and
Speaker 2: you know, honestly, I thought that might carry forward for
Speaker 2: the next or certainly for this year, and maybe going forward.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden you realize when Luke
Speaker 2: Donald was making it picks, man, that guy's a really
Speaker 2: good player. Wow, that guy's a really good player. And
Speaker 2: then you look at it and you say, Okay, Adrian
Speaker 2: Moronc who was probably number thirteen, Okay, he's won three
Speaker 2: times in the last twelve months, and he won the
Speaker 2: Italian Open at Marcos Simoni last spring and he was
Speaker 2: left off the team. So you know, that just shows
Speaker 2: how deep the European side was much deeper than I'd expected.
Speaker 2: And it's, you know, being that favorite. I don't think
Speaker 2: you want to play in that favorite role. It's really hard.
Speaker 2: And the Europeans have really embraced that underdog role of hey,
Speaker 2: let's get out there and play free and we've got
Speaker 2: nothing to lose kind of attitude, and I think the
Speaker 2: US side needs to try and adopt that, to find
Speaker 2: a way to like just let it go a little
Speaker 2: bit more.
Speaker 1: Having been on three of these, just what's it like?
Speaker 1: I mean, how important is the captain in this? Because okay,
Speaker 1: so you guys you go over in ninety seven Tom
Speaker 1: Kites the captain, you guys lose. Then Crenshaw and Zinger
Speaker 1: are kind of two of the captains. I mean, Zinger
Speaker 1: especially was kind of the guy that kind of from
Speaker 1: a US standpoint, kind of brought this idea of this
Speaker 1: pod system right to where you're gonna get a group
Speaker 1: of players within the twelve, you're gonna have your group,
Speaker 1: they're gonna give you a vice captain, and I think
Speaker 1: that's been really that was new, that was something that
Speaker 1: hadn't really been done before. And then you've got you know,
Speaker 1: Ben Crenshaw who's the ultimate old school kind of wake
Speaker 1: up the echoes, kind of you know, iconic, you know
Speaker 1: this wreck and tour kind of just a very soulful guy.
Speaker 1: So from a captain standpoint, because obviously everyone's going to
Speaker 1: look at Zach as a captain and say, okay, he
Speaker 1: made a bunch of mistakes. When you've been on the
Speaker 1: three Ryder Cups that you've been on, what's that like
Speaker 1: as the player captain and how important is to is
Speaker 1: the captain to you as a player on these teams?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean three very different styles and personalities and captains.
Speaker 2: You know, Tom Kite was very much by the book
Speaker 2: dot all the eyes across all the t's. That being said,
Speaker 2: you know, I had three different partners that week. I
Speaker 2: played a match on Saturday afternoon with Tiger Woods. I
Speaker 2: hadn't seen Tiger all week, didn't play a practice around
Speaker 2: with them, all those things, so and we were down too,
Speaker 2: So you kind of throw the cards up in the
Speaker 2: air and say, well, I've got to change things up.
Speaker 2: You know, Ben is very touchy feely. There wasn't a
Speaker 2: lot of organization of that week either. The pairings were
Speaker 2: a little bit random. And then Paul brought this kind
Speaker 2: of organization and continuity to it where he tried to
Speaker 2: take some of the the mystery out of it and
Speaker 2: and really said, okay, here's here are the multiple here's
Speaker 2: the chances of guys, you're gonna play with one of
Speaker 2: these three players. And he couldn't tell you which match
Speaker 2: and those things, but you know, and so within our pod,
Speaker 2: like we are able to take some ownership to it
Speaker 2: and and really get involved in the process. And I
Speaker 2: think that's the thing that that captains have tried to
Speaker 2: bring going forward, is there's so much going on for
Speaker 2: the week. Uh, it's such a busy week that try
Speaker 2: and take some of the doubt like who who am
Speaker 2: I going to play with? Or when am I going
Speaker 2: to play? And so I think that's something that that
Speaker 2: these captains, you know, Jim Fearret, Davis lob Now, Zach Johnson,
Speaker 2: have tried to emulate of Okay, let's try and bring
Speaker 2: a little bit of organization to the chaos so that
Speaker 2: guys understand, Okay, I'm likely going to play with these
Speaker 2: two or three players, and so you can kind of
Speaker 2: you know a little bit more ahead of time. Now
Speaker 2: I understand, like you lose all four sessions on a
Speaker 2: on a you know, Friday, you may have to mix
Speaker 2: things up a little bit. But I think having some
Speaker 2: sense of especially for the players maybe who haven't been
Speaker 2: there before, Okay, this may not be your partner all week,
Speaker 2: but you're gonna play with one of these two or
Speaker 2: three players. I think that's kind of been the idea
Speaker 2: going forward. But for whatever reason, it just didn't work
Speaker 2: last week.
Speaker 1: This thing was over on Friday morning, right, I mean
Speaker 1: you go, oh, I mean yes, we have seen comebacks before.
Speaker 1: I mean, it happened in the Solheim Cup where the
Speaker 1: just recently the European Soulheim Cup team. They lose the
Speaker 1: first four matches and they went on to win, but
Speaker 1: there was definitely a feeling that after the morning matches
Speaker 1: going you know, throwing up the bagel for the US
Speaker 1: getting no points, it definitely seemed like, I mean, Europe
Speaker 1: was in the driver's seat, and it seemed like we
Speaker 1: never really recovered from the start that we got off
Speaker 1: to in the morning. When you look at those pairings
Speaker 1: from that Friday morning, we've got see We've got Scheffler
Speaker 1: and Burns, Homa and Brian Harmon, Ricky Fowler, Morikala Xander
Speaker 1: and can't lay if you could go back and would
Speaker 1: you send those out as a captain or would you say, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe we make some changes and maybe we play it differently.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, the one pairing in that
Speaker 2: that I really kind of hesitate about is the first
Speaker 2: one is Scheffler and Burns. Sam Burns, Yes, he won
Speaker 2: the match played back in the spring, that was in April,
Speaker 2: and he really hasn't played that well since. To put
Speaker 2: him out in an alternate shot, I think I think
Speaker 2: it was a risk. And but I mean the guys
Speaker 2: just didn't play well. I mean the European side was up,
Speaker 2: you know, two and three up through after five or
Speaker 2: six holes, and I know those first couple of matches,
Speaker 2: and and it just it was a blowout. And I'll
Speaker 2: say that that the US had a chance Friday afternoon
Speaker 2: to you know, if they go out and they get
Speaker 2: three to one in the afternoon, I think they'd feel
Speaker 2: pretty They would have felt pretty good about themselves going
Speaker 2: into too Saturday morning. But losing the eighteenth hole the
Speaker 2: way they did in a couple of those matches, I
Speaker 2: think was it the afternoon it was European side one
Speaker 2: one and then the other three were ties, so you know,
Speaker 2: the US only getting a point and a half. They
Speaker 2: needed three points in the afternoon. So really, to me,
Speaker 2: it was Friday night it was like, okay, this, this
Speaker 2: is kind of done. I mean it was what a
Speaker 2: six point yeah, six point deficit at that.
Speaker 1: Point, six and six and a half to one and
Speaker 1: a half after the after Friday.
Speaker 2: So five points, they're just there. Needed to be more
Speaker 2: of a sense of urgency. I think on the US
Speaker 2: side Friday afternoon to okay, let's chip away at this.
Speaker 2: It's four points, get it to two points by Friday night,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, I think you feel
Speaker 2: pretty good going into Saturday morning. But it's just time.
Speaker 2: And again it's the European side. They'd make a putt
Speaker 2: whenever they got in trouble, they'd chip in those kind
Speaker 2: of things, and there was nothing happening like that from
Speaker 2: the US team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the US were down. They were down five points
Speaker 1: after on Friday night, they were down five points on
Speaker 1: Saturday night, and they lose by five points on Sunday night.
Speaker 1: Why do you think our record in alternate shot? I'm American,
Speaker 1: I call it alternate shot.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's alternate shots. For me, it's best ball, alternate shot,
Speaker 1: foursome's four ball. I can't figure any of that out.
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough. But why do you think the
Speaker 1: US struggled so much in the alternate shot format and
Speaker 1: the Europeans have just flourished historically in that system. And
Speaker 1: then we always play good in the singles, We always
Speaker 1: tend to play good when it's best ball, but in
Speaker 1: the alternate shot over the last thirty years, we just
Speaker 1: get run out of the building. By the way the
Speaker 1: Europeans play alternate shot.
Speaker 2: It's I wonder what's happening in practice rounds. I mean, yes,
Speaker 2: I'm over there, but I've got to do my work
Speaker 2: on the golf course and things like that. I watched
Speaker 2: the guys play a little bit on Thursday. I caught
Speaker 2: a few holes of each group with the Americans, and they.
Speaker 1: Were, yeah, we saw yeah, we ran into you on
Speaker 1: on sixteen.
Speaker 2: You know, are they playing some ultnate shot in the
Speaker 2: practice rounds? You know, I think they're so busy trying
Speaker 2: to get their game ready, especially for the you know,
Speaker 2: the nine guys who hadn't played in five weeks to
Speaker 2: sit there and only hit half the shots is. You know,
Speaker 2: they feel like, well, I'm not really able to get
Speaker 2: my game ready. So you know how much of that
Speaker 2: is happening, I don't know, And I don't know how
Speaker 2: much it's happening on the European side. I think the
Speaker 2: golf course setup has a lot to do with it.
Speaker 2: Just you know, an alternate shot, you have to be
Speaker 2: hitting fairways. Certainly on a place like Marcus Simoni with
Speaker 2: rough is deep as it was, you just you have
Speaker 2: to be playing from the fairways. And for the US side,
Speaker 2: that's never been a real priority because of the way
Speaker 2: the golf courses are set up and maintained weekend week out.
Speaker 2: On the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: I was doing I did some commentary for Sky and
Speaker 1: I was doing I was in one of the sessions
Speaker 1: with Andrew Coltart and Rich Beam. And Andrew was saying
Speaker 1: off camera it was Friday morning. He was like, they're
Speaker 1: professional golfers. I know, they don't play this type of
Speaker 1: golf all the time. And he was saying the same
Speaker 1: thing that you were saying. It just seemed like in
Speaker 1: the alternate shot, the Americans were struggling to get the
Speaker 1: ball in play. On Sunday, I went out and followed
Speaker 1: Brooks and walked around his match. And one of the
Speaker 1: things I said to Brooks before he went out with
Speaker 1: against lud big Alberg Goes said, listen, just don't give
Speaker 1: him any holes. Make him beat you with either a
Speaker 1: birdie or a part, but don't get out of the holes.
Speaker 1: And on Sunday, in the singles match, Justin Brooks played
Speaker 1: so much more conservative than he did in the other
Speaker 1: two matches he played. I mean he was hitting some
Speaker 1: driving irons off with some te's. He was hitting a
Speaker 1: lot of three woods off of some teams. That wasn't
Speaker 1: what he did in best ball and alternate shot. And
Speaker 1: he did it in the singles and he won easily, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, he cruised, He didn't have any problems. He
Speaker 1: looked totally in control. Is it hard than as a
Speaker 1: player justin to adapt on the fly when the golf
Speaker 1: course kind of demands that you do that? And I
Speaker 1: know the mindset right because I'm walking all the practice
Speaker 1: rounds with all of these guys, and I'll be honest
Speaker 1: with you, in the three practice rounds that I walked,
Speaker 1: most of the guys are just hitting the US guys.
Speaker 1: They're hitting driver everywhere on a golf course, as you said,
Speaker 1: very similar to the setup at Golf Nationale in Paris
Speaker 1: that set up in Rome last week. Maybe didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: set up for hitting driver all the time, because it
Speaker 1: seemed like if you're watching TV, I just kept seeing
Speaker 1: an American with a seven footer for a half for
Speaker 1: parr ye know, an eight footer for the half, a
Speaker 1: ten footer for the half for par right. So that
Speaker 1: means you're out of the hole and you're up against
Speaker 1: it before you get to the green, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the first hole, I mean the
Speaker 2: and I think both teams were hitting drivers there, but
Speaker 2: you know it was it was set up for something
Speaker 2: right to left, which not many the guys really play
Speaker 2: that often off the tee hit a three wood, put
Speaker 2: the ball in play. I mean all three of the
Speaker 2: first three pairings in the US all hit it in
Speaker 2: the right rough. Now you've got a tree over there,
Speaker 2: that's an issue. You can't get to the green because
Speaker 2: the rough's so deep. You know. I think they're just
Speaker 2: so used to playing a certain way of pushing the
Speaker 2: ball down there as far as you can that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like the struggle to adapt and finally like you said, Brooks,
Speaker 2: you know said, look, thanks to you, I'm going to
Speaker 2: get it the ball in the fairway, whatever that takes.
Speaker 2: And even if i'm hitting a you know, a seven
Speaker 2: iron versus you know, your opponent's hitting a nine er
Speaker 2: a wedge, at least you're in the hole. It better
Speaker 2: that than hacking a sandwich out fifty yards short of
Speaker 2: the green and trying to get it up and down.
Speaker 2: So again, I think a lot of that just goes
Speaker 2: back to, you know, they're used to playing a certain
Speaker 2: style of golf and not making those adjustments to say, hey,
Speaker 2: look maybe I'm not as sharp as I think I am.
Speaker 2: I need to just find a way to get the
Speaker 2: ball and play and get it on the green. Like
Speaker 2: you said, so I'm not putting from ten feet for
Speaker 2: par because it didn't seem like many of those putts
Speaker 2: were going in. I was surprised also at how many
Speaker 2: putts were really poorly misread. Both teams had the pin
Speaker 2: sheets all five rounds or all five matches. They didn't
Speaker 2: know necessarily what day they were going to be the
Speaker 2: but and you know, when I was following, they were
Speaker 2: putting teas or rubber cups down to you know putt
Speaker 2: to certain holes, but man, there's just a lot of
Speaker 2: misreads putts from fifteen and twenty feet that were missed
Speaker 2: by a foot. You just don't see that very often.
Speaker 2: And so I was really taken back by that that that,
Speaker 2: you know, the guys, they just didn't seem prepared at
Speaker 2: all to come in and play. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: would you ever if Brooks came to you and said, hey,
Speaker 2: ch I'm gonna get ready for the Masters, I'm going
Speaker 2: to take five weeks off, uh and just make sure
Speaker 2: that I'm rested. I think you would. You would talk
Speaker 2: them out of that immediately.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't that, I mean, nobody does that.
Speaker 2: That's not a recipe for success. I understand taking a
Speaker 2: week or two off before, but you've got to get
Speaker 2: engaged in something. And that's where like reading putts, you
Speaker 2: don't reading You're not reading putts when you're at home
Speaker 2: playing your you know, your home golf course or something
Speaker 2: like that, or even during a practice round, you're not
Speaker 2: sitting there grinding over and reading putts. That's why it's
Speaker 2: important to play tournament golf so that you really understand
Speaker 2: where your game is. You're going through that whole process,
Speaker 2: and you know, I think that's certainly what was lacking.
Speaker 1: So the obvious question justin is, you know, where does
Speaker 1: the US team go from here? I mean, after what
Speaker 1: happened with Tom Watson and Phil Michlson at Glenn Eagles
Speaker 1: in fourteen, there was a task force and you and
Speaker 1: I were talking yesterday that you felt like in the
Speaker 1: last ten years some things have gotten better with the
Speaker 1: US setup. But what are the things coming out of
Speaker 1: another pretty significant and beat down in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Where does the US team go from here? And what
Speaker 1: do you think they need to do for the next
Speaker 1: matches at bet the Page Black to not just rely
Speaker 1: on the fact that the US is more dominant at
Speaker 1: home than they are away. What do you think needs
Speaker 1: to happen and where do you think this is going
Speaker 1: to end up?
Speaker 2: Well? I think there have been some positive changes in
Speaker 2: giving the players more of a say, there's more continuity
Speaker 2: from year to year for captains, and seems like now
Speaker 2: the President's Cup has kind of become a part of that.
Speaker 2: But what are the next captains? I mean, Phil Michelson
Speaker 2: was certainly going to be a captain. I doubt that's
Speaker 2: going to happen you know, Tiger is obviously going to
Speaker 2: be a captain, and he wasn't in Rome, but I
Speaker 2: think he would have been, you know, had it not
Speaker 2: you know, having his surgeries and things like that. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure that he was involved to some extent. But
Speaker 2: I think the players have almost had too much power
Speaker 2: when it comes to putting the team together. Six picks
Speaker 2: is a lot of picks. I understand, you know, I
Speaker 2: think seven eight nine, we're all chosen. But that's and
Speaker 2: I think that the players had a lot of say
Speaker 2: in who was picked. I think that you know, maybe
Speaker 2: a captain like Tiger is going to say, you know what,
Speaker 2: I appreciate that, but I'm going to go this direction.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, and look, all those guys in
Speaker 2: the team room, they're all very good friends of mine.
Speaker 2: They've all been doing it for a long time, and
Speaker 2: they've put a lot of effort and time into the
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup and the US team. But I think it's
Speaker 2: time to, you know, maybe bring try and usher in
Speaker 2: some new guys that you think are going to be
Speaker 2: captains down the road, and bring some different personalities into
Speaker 2: that room that you know, I mean, a guy like Tiger,
Speaker 2: he's going to stand up for what he thinks and
Speaker 2: not necessarily listen to you know what one of the players,
Speaker 2: you know, their ideas are thinking. So I think all
Speaker 2: that's taken into consideration, but I think the players almost
Speaker 2: have too much power in this day and age.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you saw Justin Rose. You know, they
Speaker 1: paired in They paired Justin Rose with probably on paper
Speaker 1: the weakest player for the European side, and Bob McIntyre,
Speaker 1: and he goes two to zero to one. He gets
Speaker 1: two and a half points.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: He was a guy that I think a lot of
Speaker 1: players thought was a guy that would struggle. And in
Speaker 1: the press conference afterward, Justin Rose said, listen, the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup isn't about playing with your friends and playing with
Speaker 1: people that you're comfortable with. The Ryder Cup is about
Speaker 1: playing for your country. So to be a good Rider
Speaker 1: Cup captain in euro opinion, the criteria I think is changing,
Speaker 1: right because historically the only way you could be a
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup captain for the US is you had to
Speaker 1: be a major champion. And I always thought it was
Speaker 1: really interesting that we tended to put so much focus
Speaker 1: on you had to be a major champion to be
Speaker 1: a Ryder Cup captain. The Europeans never had that right. Yes,
Speaker 1: Seve had won a major, Yes Bernhard Longer had won
Speaker 1: a major, but Monty never won a major. He was
Speaker 1: a great captain. Nick Faldo won a boatload of majors,
Speaker 1: he wasn't a great captain. Paul McGinley never came close
Speaker 1: to winning a major champion, he to me was an
Speaker 1: amazing captain. In your opinion, justin what do you feel
Speaker 1: like you need and let's just make it specific to
Speaker 1: the American to be a good American captain, What do
Speaker 1: you think are the traits and characteristics that you need
Speaker 1: to have.
Speaker 2: I think A you need to be willing to listen
Speaker 2: to vice captains and to players to a certain extent.
Speaker 2: And Ben, you also have to be able to not
Speaker 2: be afraid to bend or hurt somebody's feelings. And I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about like calling them to say you're not
Speaker 2: on the team, but saying you know what, I appreciate
Speaker 2: your input. But as I just said, like, but we're
Speaker 2: going to go in this direction because I have a
Speaker 2: vision for this and this is what we're going to do.
Speaker 2: And that's it. Nothing more needs to be said. I
Speaker 2: think it's that way when it comes to making the
Speaker 2: captain's picks. I think it comes that way when it's
Speaker 2: when you're making pairings. Just because a team has worked
Speaker 2: very well in the past does not mean that in
Speaker 2: that give and week that's the right team or they're
Speaker 2: the right teammates for each other. You know, there's some diplomacy,
Speaker 2: but there's also needs to be a bit of an
Speaker 2: ego where it's like, well, okay, but this is what
Speaker 2: we're going to do and that's it and nothing more
Speaker 2: needs to be said. That's why I think Tiger is
Speaker 2: going to be such a great captain when he decides
Speaker 2: to do it. He's got the respect of the players enough,
Speaker 2: and I think all the players have respected captain. But
Speaker 2: to say, you know what, that's fine. I appreciate your thought,
Speaker 2: but this is the direction we're going to go in.
Speaker 2: And I think there's guys like you know, Brent Snedeker.
Speaker 2: I think he needs to be brought into the mix
Speaker 2: because I think he's that kind of guy as well.
Speaker 2: And but yeah, what like we need to start identifying
Speaker 2: these next captains down the road. And you know Stuart
Speaker 2: sink was there, Does that mean he's a future captain?
Speaker 2: He's certainly worthy of it with his you know, resume
Speaker 2: and all that. You know, but then again, Matt Kucher
Speaker 2: was an Assistan at eighteen. He wasn't involved in this. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's starting to prepare those next captains.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, if there seems to be
Speaker 2: a little bit of a some symmetry between the President's
Speaker 2: Cup and the Ryder Cup, like the Presence Cup is
Speaker 2: a great place to bring that new captain in and
Speaker 2: get him around some of the guys that's in that room,
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, Burick or Striccer, those kind of things,
Speaker 2: and kind of have them experience what that process is
Speaker 2: like and so that the things that have worked well
Speaker 2: since twenty fourteen they can continue. But it doesn't mean like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is how we have to do it. It's not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been better at home, but it's not working on
Speaker 2: the road. You know, you can always try and bring
Speaker 2: new things into the mix, and I think a lot
Speaker 2: of that just starts with peoples and the captains and
Speaker 2: even the vice captains and their personalities.
Speaker 1: Do you think justin that we sent our best team,
Speaker 1: do you think that those were the twelve best players
Speaker 1: to win that Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I think the fact that Kegan Bradley
Speaker 2: wasn't there and Lucas Glover weren't there tells you that
Speaker 2: it wasn't the twelve best players, best Americans. I think
Speaker 2: a lot of it was okay pairings and then you know,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it was okay, who do
Speaker 2: the guys want to be around for the week. And No,
Speaker 2: I think the fact that those two are left off
Speaker 2: the list just shows you how much control, you know,
Speaker 2: the automatic qualifiers had in the room.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you look at that golf course,
Speaker 1: and again I think you're correct, it had a very
Speaker 1: similar feel to Golf Nationale in Paris, the way that
Speaker 1: the Europeans set the golf course up. You would think,
Speaker 1: with the fact that we weren't, the US team didn't
Speaker 1: seem to drive the ball as well. A guy like
Speaker 1: Lucas Glover, who's one of the best drivers of golf
Speaker 1: ball on the planet, who hits the golf ball as
Speaker 1: straight as possible, you would think he would be a
Speaker 1: great partner in alternate shot to where you know he's
Speaker 1: not going to miss the fairway, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's you know, that's pretty obvious. And
Speaker 2: then just the passion that Kegan Bradley has and how
Speaker 2: much he wants it. He's you know, you might say,
Speaker 2: well it's almost too much for him, but man, it
Speaker 2: certainly wasn't Madona, how well he played with Phil and
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think those are the two obvious ones
Speaker 2: to my mind. You know, again, I'm not in the
Speaker 2: team room. I don't know exactly what's going on, but
Speaker 2: from the outside looking in, no, I don't think we
Speaker 2: had the best team we could have put on the
Speaker 2: golf course.
Speaker 1: You mentioned analytics. Nico Deris, who's part of John Rahm's
Speaker 1: performance team, who I've had on the podcast before. I
Speaker 1: was with him yesterday. He was showing me some messages
Speaker 1: between himself and Edwardo Molinari from three four months ago.
Speaker 1: From what I saw yesterday, John ram knew who he
Speaker 1: was going to play with in every session months ago
Speaker 1: and everything was about what that player did. I looked
Speaker 1: at text messages yesterday between Eduardo and Nico and it
Speaker 1: was fascinating. But these are from before the summer. This
Speaker 1: was in May, when they had an idea of who
Speaker 1: they were going to get on the team. This between
Speaker 1: data analytics and stats and real world kind of playing golf.
Speaker 1: How do you think moving forward we balance that in
Speaker 1: this team environment, because I mean I've seen a bunch
Speaker 1: of the Euro's analytics. I've talked to a lot of
Speaker 1: them about the process, and it seemed very different than
Speaker 1: what the US was doing. I mean, it really did.
Speaker 1: It seemed a lot more cohesive. It seemed a lot
Speaker 1: more thought out, and I think it seemed to me
Speaker 1: just a lot more explained to the players on the
Speaker 1: European side. So there was a buy in for the
Speaker 1: data as opposed to just here's a bunch of data.
Speaker 1: You're going out with that guy because that's what the
Speaker 1: stats say. That's very different than if the people telling
Speaker 1: you what the data is saying, Okay, this is why
Speaker 1: this is going to work, right.
Speaker 2: You know, I think the US side relies a lot
Speaker 2: on data as well. And you know, when when all
Speaker 2: goes well, you just stick absolutely with the data and
Speaker 2: you know, you keep writing it out, and you know,
Speaker 2: when you show up and you win the first session
Speaker 2: for zero man, you just stay right in your rhythm
Speaker 2: and what you're doing and all that. What the data
Speaker 2: doesn't show is like, Okay, you might have somebody who's
Speaker 2: who's had certain performance characteristics over the course of a
Speaker 2: year or two, and they show up a week and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, they're not driving the
Speaker 2: ball well, or they're not putting well or those things.
Speaker 2: And then like all of a sudden, the data like it,
Speaker 2: it steered you in a direction that maybe you know
Speaker 2: you can't go because somebody's just not playing well or
Speaker 2: they're not you know, they're struggling at the time in
Speaker 2: certain aspects of their games. So I know the US
Speaker 2: relies heavily on data as well, but when all of
Speaker 2: a sudden you show up and you throw up a
Speaker 2: goose egg in the first session, you know, sometimes you
Speaker 2: have to You've got to pivot and you go, Okay,
Speaker 2: well this isn't working. We've got to go other directions
Speaker 2: and those things. So again, I you know, I think
Speaker 2: back to the Oakland A's and to me that was
Speaker 2: kind of really the first really driven data driven team
Speaker 2: aspect in sports. And you know, yes, it got to
Speaker 2: them to a certain point, but in the end, you
Speaker 2: also have to have a little bit of a feel
Speaker 2: for the game and understand, Okay, I know that data
Speaker 2: may say this, but I need to go in this
Speaker 2: direction a little bit. So again I'm not in those rooms.
Speaker 2: I you know, when everything is going well, I think
Speaker 2: that you just stick with the data. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously for the US side, probably got thrown some curveballs
Speaker 2: and say, okay, we need to change things up here,
Speaker 2: because you know this players really performing up to their
Speaker 2: you know what the data says and those kind of things.
Speaker 1: The performance from John Rom, Rory McElroy, Victor Hovlin, and
Speaker 1: Tommy Fleetwood, it was it was something. I mean, the
Speaker 1: golf that that Rory and John Rahm are able to
Speaker 1: just almost kind of will I mean, it does look
Speaker 1: like that to me that you just know Rory is
Speaker 1: going to go out and get it done, you just
Speaker 1: know John Rahm is going to go out and get
Speaker 1: it done. Just where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 1: Because I mean I watched it up close last week,
Speaker 1: and you watched the performance of Rory, you watch the
Speaker 1: performance of John Rahm. I mean they looked last week
Speaker 1: like men amongst boys with the way they were playing
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, Rory has had a couple
Speaker 2: of disappointing Ryder Cups. He didn't play great in France.
Speaker 2: He really struggled at Whistling Straits, and you know, I
Speaker 2: remember the emotional interview after singles match and how he
Speaker 2: broke down because he felt like he let the team down.
Speaker 2: I think for Rory, I think John Ram and Victor
Speaker 2: Hoblin helped Rory because he doesn't feel like he has
Speaker 2: to carry the team on his shoulders. He doesn't feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, however he goes is how the European side
Speaker 2: is going to go. He knows he's got a couple
Speaker 2: guys there that, you know, any given day could beat
Speaker 2: Rory McElroy and so having that kind of support, and
Speaker 2: by the way, they're all in the top four in
Speaker 2: the world, I think that's freeing for Rory. And I
Speaker 2: think also the expectations go down a little bit for
Speaker 2: him from the outside because he does have John Rom,
Speaker 2: he does have Victor Hoblin and and it'll be fascinating
Speaker 2: to see at Bethpage. You know, if those three guys
Speaker 2: are able, if they're able to perform like that at Bethpage,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Does the US even have a chance.
Speaker 2: I would say they do, But like we've talked about,
Speaker 2: it is harder to play on the road because of
Speaker 2: the fans because of the golf course and all those things.
Speaker 2: But I was you know, I think Rory was really
Speaker 2: upset by his play in the last two Ryder Cups,
Speaker 2: and I think he found a way to find a
Speaker 2: sense of freedom knowing that he's got a great supporting cast.
Speaker 2: And you know, and just so, I mean, Victor Howland
Speaker 2: obviously played well. He won the FedEx Cup. You know,
Speaker 2: those guys all played well. I think they had seven
Speaker 2: players finished in the top ten. It wentworth at the BMWPGA,
Speaker 2: which by the way is essentially the players Championship for
Speaker 2: the DP World Tour, so it's a huge event. You know,
Speaker 2: all of those things. I think, you know, that just
Speaker 2: created this wave of confidence for the European side. And
Speaker 2: you know, every all three of those guys played great.
Speaker 2: And you know, like you said, Justin Rose stepping up,
Speaker 2: Tommy Fleetwood obviously just.
Speaker 1: Errol Hatton goes undefeated, I mean, go wins three points.
Speaker 1: Terroll Hatton won three and a half points. That guy
Speaker 1: is an absolute bulldog. I mean it's easy to look
Speaker 1: at Terrell Hatton and look at his persona and you know,
Speaker 1: you laugh at all the things that he does and
Speaker 1: how bad he can sometimes act on the golf course,
Speaker 1: which I love. I mean, I'm a huge tear off.
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's hilarious. But I said to
Speaker 1: him walking into the we were walking into the team
Speaker 1: hotel on Saturday night, and I just said to him,
Speaker 1: I said, man, it it is fun to watch you
Speaker 1: play golf. That guy. I don't think Terroll Hatton gets
Speaker 1: enough credit for the type of player he is, because
Speaker 1: he that kid is legit.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. And you know it's so funny. You think
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, he with his you know, combustible attitude
Speaker 2: and John Rahm, who was also very you know, uh combustible.
Speaker 2: You know, those two playing together like they didn't have
Speaker 2: a lot to complain about really because they played so well.
Speaker 2: You know, does that work in front of a New
Speaker 2: York crowd. I don't know, if they play the way
Speaker 2: they did, it might, but you know, those two just
Speaker 2: they played great together. And you know, John said, it's
Speaker 2: not just their attitudes, it's their outlook on the game
Speaker 2: that's very similar, you know, even there, I mean down,
Speaker 2: I'm sure they probably shared you know, beard conditioners which
Speaker 2: with each other. I mean, they were just so in
Speaker 2: sync all week long and it was. It was really
Speaker 2: fun to watch those two.
Speaker 1: How good do you think Victor Hovlin can be now
Speaker 1: that he's done a lot of work with Joe Mayo.
Speaker 1: The short game which was a absolute, complete and utter
Speaker 1: liability before. I mean, his short game was heired to
Speaker 1: the rest of his game was the short game of
Speaker 1: a fifteen handicap relative to everybody else, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was bad. And he has turned that into a strength.
Speaker 1: His attitude. He's always got a smile on his face.
Speaker 1: He has really become a fan favorite. But I just
Speaker 1: continue to be so impressed justin with his game. And
Speaker 1: I was saying to his caddie on Sunday morning, Shay Knight,
Speaker 1: if you look at vic his iron shots, look at
Speaker 1: how many when you watch Victor Hoblin play, how many
Speaker 1: of his iron shots are past the hole? Three, four,
Speaker 1: five steps past the hole? Which means, you know, Tiger
Speaker 1: was the greatest because everything just finished pin high. Vic's
Speaker 1: actually going past pin high and then rolling it back
Speaker 1: to four feet And I just I don't see that
Speaker 1: really right now. What weaknesses does a guy like Victor
Speaker 1: Hoblin have it?
Speaker 2: He doesn't have any now, And like you said, I
Speaker 2: mean he admitted. A couple of years ago, he was
Speaker 2: quoted in a TV interview and say, I just suck
Speaker 2: at chipping. And now, like I was watching him hit
Speaker 2: these like spinny kind of flop shots right of the
Speaker 2: ninth green the par five. Penn was in the back
Speaker 2: part of the green, landing these things on a downslope,
Speaker 2: and I was watching him hit this shot up in
Speaker 2: the air off a very tight past palum lie putting
Speaker 2: spin on it, and I thought, Okay, this is like
Speaker 2: this is night and day difference, and that's the difference.
Speaker 2: You know, Victor Hoblin, I think, with this short game
Speaker 2: was a you know, around maybe tenth best player in
Speaker 2: the world because he hit it so good. A pretty
Speaker 2: good putter, not a great putter, but now that he
Speaker 2: can chip the ball, he has no weaknesses and I
Speaker 2: think he's he's gonna be number one player in the
Speaker 2: world in the next year or so. He's got that
Speaker 2: kind of game, he's got that confidence now because he's
Speaker 2: done this stuff on such a huge stage between the
Speaker 2: FedEx Cup and the Ryder Cup, you know, there's no
Speaker 2: limit to how good he can be.
Speaker 1: We've talked about Zach Johnson, and you know, the fact
Speaker 1: that the US didn't get it done. Luke Donald, captain
Speaker 1: for the European side, give me a gauge on what
Speaker 1: you feel like was part of the formula that he
Speaker 1: got right.
Speaker 2: I don't know that there's anything he didn't get right
Speaker 2: from his picks. I mean, yeah, you thought, wow, he's
Speaker 2: left Adrian moronc Like, how do you do that? Well,
Speaker 2: you can't second guess that now. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: Adrian MORONK would have done fine and all that, but
Speaker 2: these twelve players he had in the room completely bought
Speaker 2: into what he was doing. He's done. They've done a
Speaker 2: nice job. I mean you look at at you know,
Speaker 2: live and how it you know whether the DP World
Speaker 2: Tour decides to bring some of those guys back into
Speaker 2: the mix. But they lost their next four or five
Speaker 2: captains between you know, Ian Poulter, Henrik Stenson who was
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup captain, Lee Westwood, Sergio like those are
Speaker 2: their next captains. So who have they brought into the
Speaker 2: room now? You know, Francisco Mollinari, Eduardo mollinariuh, Nicholas Colesarts,
Speaker 2: I mean you know Thomas Bjorn, you know from a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago and France was, you know, was
Speaker 2: there to kind of help bridge that. But they've got
Speaker 2: to identify these new captains. I wouldn't be surprised at
Speaker 2: all if I'm sure they're going to try and get
Speaker 2: Luke to do it again in in at Beth page.
Speaker 2: Whether he wants to do it or not is the
Speaker 2: real key. And and you know, being an away captain
Speaker 2: there's not quite as many responsibilities and duties. It look,
Speaker 2: it's still a full time job. But I think I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if Luke says yes, because it seemed
Speaker 2: like how much he enjoyed the experience. He talked about
Speaker 2: this being really the panicle of his career. You know,
Speaker 2: I would I'm sure they're going to try and talk
Speaker 2: him into it. It'll be interesting to see whether he
Speaker 2: decides to do it or not, or if he just
Speaker 2: wants to, you know, take his playbook and hand it
Speaker 2: off to the next person.
Speaker 1: You talked about the vice captain said, he's got right.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you've got Ola Thabol as a vice
Speaker 1: captain because he's kind of the og next to seventy.
Speaker 1: He is kind of their spirit animal, right. Jose kind
Speaker 1: of embodies everything that Europe is as a Wryter Cup entity.
Speaker 1: The spirit, the passion, the joy, the camaraderie. I mean
Speaker 1: to me, when I see Jose, you see that part
Speaker 1: of his career more than you see him as a
Speaker 1: two time Masters champion, right, you see the Ryder Cup
Speaker 1: as his kind of identity because he was so great
Speaker 1: in that. Thomas Bjorn had a great Ryder Cup record
Speaker 1: as a player. He won as a captain in Paris.
Speaker 1: But there's guys in that backroom staff that aren't necessarily
Speaker 1: superstars like the guys on the US side. From a
Speaker 1: backroom staff, Yes, Francesco Molinari won a major champion championship,
Speaker 1: but you've got Eduardo. You've got a guy like Nicholas
Speaker 1: Coastcartz who you wouldn't think would be vice captain's pick.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's something in that in that you're
Speaker 1: picking guys that aren't necessarily rock stars, right, They're not
Speaker 1: necessarily guys that you know by one by their first name, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the Ryder Cup captain,
Speaker 1: I mean we've got three of them. I mean we've
Speaker 1: got Freddie, We've got Davis. Right, you know them by
Speaker 1: first names because of everything they've done. Do you think
Speaker 1: there's some anonymity in the captain the vice captain choices
Speaker 1: that the Europeans choose, which actually helps them because it
Speaker 1: seems less about their persona and it's just more about
Speaker 1: them as a person.
Speaker 2: I do I think there. You know, you mentioned earlier
Speaker 2: Paul McGinley. There were probably people in the US that
Speaker 2: had never heard of Paul mcginnley. Now he had a
Speaker 2: really nice career, but captain the Ryder Cup team was
Speaker 2: the pinnacle of his career. You know. I think that
Speaker 2: because the US dominated major championships for so long, the US,
Speaker 2: and you know, and then you had Ernie Els and
Speaker 2: you had VJ and Ratief Goosen and and you know,
Speaker 2: guys from Australia. But but there was a bit of
Speaker 2: a drought on the European side when it came to
Speaker 2: major championships, and so it seemed like those Ryder Cup captains,
Speaker 2: you know, and thinking to McGinley and Thomas Bijorn, like
Speaker 2: they maybe didn't have the resume as an end of
Speaker 2: visual that we kind of seek out in the US
Speaker 2: for our Ryder Cup captains, or we kind of expect
Speaker 2: from our captains. But what you accomplished individually has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with what kind of leader you're going to
Speaker 2: be in the team room, what kind of you know,
Speaker 2: the example that you're going to set the You know,
Speaker 2: those two have very little in common. So you don't
Speaker 2: have to be a three or four time major champion
Speaker 2: to be a great captain. The two don't really have
Speaker 2: anything to do with each other. What you need to
Speaker 2: have is is the respect of the players so that
Speaker 2: they will buy into what you're trying to do. You
Speaker 2: have to have be willing to listen to the players
Speaker 2: and their thoughts and you know, the analytics and all
Speaker 2: that that team, but then have the confidence or ego
Speaker 2: if you will, to say, you know what, this is
Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. I've taken all that in,
Speaker 2: this is my plan and then and it's not questions,
Speaker 2: then guys buy into it. And that's not always the
Speaker 2: easiest balance to strike. I think that you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of respect for Luke Donald in the world
Speaker 2: of golf, and certainly by you know him as a player.
Speaker 2: He never won a major, but he reached number one
Speaker 2: in the world, and he reached number one in the world.
Speaker 2: He wasn't a great driver of the golf ball, exceptional
Speaker 2: iron player, unbelievable pottering around the greens. Okay, so you
Speaker 2: could say that this guy he's got a lot of heart.
Speaker 2: Maybe because you know, you know him being from England everything,
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily always see the personality. He's a bit
Speaker 2: more reserved, but you know that he's got a lot
Speaker 2: of heart by his playing career. So you know, like,
Speaker 2: where's that heart. From the American side, we know Zach
Speaker 2: Johnson's got heart. He's almost a similar player to Luke Donald.
Speaker 2: Not the longest, but you know, finds a way to
Speaker 2: get things done, you know. And he's won a Master's
Speaker 2: in an open championship. He certainly has the resume for it.
Speaker 2: But is that resume always the most important thing? I
Speaker 2: don't think so.
Speaker 1: So the obvious question, then, Justin, is if you have
Speaker 1: you been asked to be in the Ryder Cup setup?
Speaker 1: Because I think that given the way that you think,
Speaker 1: given the way that you kind of live your life,
Speaker 1: to me, I think you'd be an amazing captain As
Speaker 1: a writer, Cub, would you do it? Have you ever
Speaker 1: been approached?
Speaker 2: I would do it. I was, you know when that
Speaker 2: task force was formed, and I wasn't in that room.
Speaker 2: To me, I thought the writing was on the wall.
Speaker 2: I was asked to be an assistant a few years ago.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like it was the right time for
Speaker 2: me to really put in the time that I felt
Speaker 2: to do that. It was at a critical point in
Speaker 2: a season where I hadn't played that well, and I
Speaker 2: just I didn't think that was my end to a
Speaker 2: possible captaincy, so I declined the offer. Maybe it was,
Speaker 2: Maybe it was, And I don't know, but I can
Speaker 2: tell you sitting here, you know, at fifty one and
Speaker 2: playing on the PGATUR champions as val was approached at
Speaker 2: this point to do it, I would absolutely be involved.
Speaker 2: But I again, I may have missed my window a
Speaker 2: few years ago.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's strange that there's windows right that. Okay,
Speaker 1: I missed my window, and now because I missed that window,
Speaker 1: I can't be considered again. I mean, to me, that
Speaker 1: just doesn't make any sense. Right. You've got to look
Speaker 1: at people that you know, it can't just be the
Speaker 1: same as you said. It just can't be the same people, right.
Speaker 1: There has to be some ability, I think on the
Speaker 1: US side, to somewhat pivot and go, Okay, we thought
Speaker 1: we were going to go in this direction. We just
Speaker 1: got smoked by five points again on European soil. You
Speaker 1: got to try something different, right, because something's got to change.
Speaker 2: I agree. I mean it's you know, historic, like you said,
Speaker 2: it was a to be the US captain, you need
Speaker 2: to be a major winner, and there's always somebody between
Speaker 2: like forty five and fifty years old and you know,
Speaker 2: so you could kind of identify the next captain's But
Speaker 2: I don't think that's that's necessary now. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't want to go too far away from uh,
Speaker 2: you know, to get enough separation where you know the
Speaker 2: captain maybe not know the players as well. But you know,
Speaker 2: Davis was a captain. You know, he was captain twice obviously,
Speaker 2: and in the second time he was pretty well into
Speaker 2: his fifties, So I don't I think that formula's kind
Speaker 2: of dissolved a little bit. And then obviously Steve Stricker
Speaker 2: had never won a major championship him being captain, So
Speaker 2: I think you certainly have to have people who've played
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup and understand what that is like. But I
Speaker 2: think they're there are some good options maybe outside of
Speaker 2: that kind of window that we've seen historically. You know,
Speaker 2: the captains have kind of come from.
Speaker 1: I think we've got a good idea based off of
Speaker 1: some of the guys that the Europeans got into this setup,
Speaker 1: right ludvig Alberg, hoy guard, you would think that those
Speaker 1: guys are going to be guys that are gonna kind
Speaker 1: of be a part of that. Who do you think
Speaker 1: from the US side in two years, who are you
Speaker 1: looking at to make that team? Who are you looking
Speaker 1: at from the US side that you think okay? Because
Speaker 1: two years ago, I mean nobody, nobody would have picked
Speaker 1: ludvig Alberg to be on a Ryder Cup team. And
Speaker 1: the kid was playing college golf three you know, six
Speaker 1: months ago, I mean he was playing. He was in
Speaker 1: a team bus, playing for Texas Tech, carrying his own bag.
Speaker 1: And six months later he's playing in a Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: I was saying to Brooks, we were joking, how many
Speaker 1: guys over last weekend that are currently playing college golf.
Speaker 1: We're telling everybody that they they that would listen, how
Speaker 1: they beat Ludwig in this tournament, how they beat him
Speaker 1: in that tournament, how they play better than he does.
Speaker 1: And this guy's playing on a Ryder Cup team and
Speaker 1: drinking champagne. So who Who's Who? Are some names that
Speaker 1: you think from a US standpoint that could step up
Speaker 1: and be a part of this next Rider Cup team.
Speaker 2: Well, chances are two or three of them are in
Speaker 2: college right now. You know, Gordon Sergeant, I could see
Speaker 2: him being on a Ryder Cup team in two years.
Speaker 2: You know Nick Dunlap, I could see him being on
Speaker 2: a Ryder Cup team, just one of the US amitar
Speaker 2: He just lipped out a putt for fifty nine at
Speaker 2: a college tournament, I think yesterday or Monday. So you know,
Speaker 2: there's chances are there's guys that are still in college.
Speaker 2: They're going to be on this team. I think you're
Speaker 2: still going to have There's always going to be turnover.
Speaker 2: There's always going to be turnover. It's just too competitive.
Speaker 2: You know, you figure Scotti Scheffler is going to be
Speaker 2: on these teams, Patrick Can't lay, Max Holma. You know
Speaker 2: you're going to have some repeat parts, but you're also
Speaker 2: going to bring in some new guys. I mean, would
Speaker 2: you have thought two years ago that Brian Harmon would
Speaker 2: be on the Ryder Cup team and then he'd be
Speaker 2: a major champion not necessarily. And you know he played
Speaker 2: very well on Saturday with Max Holma, and you know, Max,
Speaker 2: I think carry the majority of the load. But but
Speaker 2: Brian played some really good golf on Saturday. So there's
Speaker 2: you know, there's it's hard to pinpoint, okay, these players,
Speaker 2: but I guarantee you after seeing Ludwig play, watching him
Speaker 2: play these college players, you know, the PG twer has
Speaker 2: done a great thing in this PG two university where
Speaker 2: the you know, the leading college player in immediately gets
Speaker 2: his tour card and I think the next five or
Speaker 2: next four, or the next ten or nine they get
Speaker 2: access on corn Ferry and those things. So you're gonna
Speaker 2: see the stars instead of turning pro, You're going to
Speaker 2: see them stay in college for three or four years
Speaker 2: so that they can take advantage of that opportunity. That's
Speaker 2: going to help the Ryder Cup on both sides. But
Speaker 2: certainly I think for the US, I guarantee you there
Speaker 2: there's probably two, maybe even three players that are playing
Speaker 2: college golf this year that could very well make the
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup team in two years.
Speaker 1: Lastly, justin you were doing TV for NBC, you were
Speaker 1: doing TV for Golf Channel, and I was talking I
Speaker 1: can't remember where we were. I asked if you were
Speaker 1: playing any golf, and you were like, I hate golf.
Speaker 1: I never played golf. I'm not interested in playing golf.
Speaker 1: Now you've gone back to being a full time golfer,
Speaker 1: you're playing on the Champs Tour. I thought it was
Speaker 1: crazy when you told me you had zero interest in
Speaker 1: playing golf, because, as I said in the opening, there
Speaker 1: aren't a lot of people in the game that have
Speaker 1: done what you've done. I mean you, you are one
Speaker 1: of those players that are very, very iconic and rare
Speaker 1: justin in that I mean this. You have done everything
Speaker 1: that is a benchmark for being a professional golfer. You've won.
Speaker 1: You know, my dad always says when he looks at
Speaker 1: you know, a guy like Haile Irwin. You know, my
Speaker 1: dad always says, you know the thing about Hail Irwin
Speaker 1: that always stands out to me, He's been good my
Speaker 1: entire life, right, he was never not a great player.
Speaker 1: You were in that boat. What was the catalyst for
Speaker 1: you to fall back in love with competitive golf and
Speaker 1: make the decision to say, listen, that's who I am.
Speaker 1: I'm a competitive tournament golfer and I want to keep
Speaker 1: doing this well.
Speaker 2: It was like twenty fourteen, fifteen sixteen. You know, I
Speaker 2: was kind of felt like I was beating my head
Speaker 2: against a wall. I wasn't playing very well. A lot
Speaker 2: of things and great things going on at home. Ib
Speaker 2: he sacrificed too much of my practice time for family reasons,
Speaker 2: and that was completely my own choice. But I just
Speaker 2: found more satisfaction being with my family than I did
Speaker 2: from practicing and playing the game. So stepped away did TV,
Speaker 2: And you're right, those three years, like twenty seventeen through
Speaker 2: twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, I played maybe a
Speaker 2: handful of rounds a year. I was living in Colorado
Speaker 2: doing TV. I would do you know, two or three
Speaker 2: corporate events a year, and might you know, hit a
Speaker 2: few balls the day before, so I kind of maybe
Speaker 2: looked like I knew what I was doing. But you know, Luke,
Speaker 2: our oldest son, started playing golf during COVID because it's
Speaker 2: about the only thing you could do. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I was about to turn forty nine, and I thought, well,
Speaker 2: if there's a chance I want to play, I need
Speaker 2: to start getting back into it. And I kind of
Speaker 2: fell back in love with the whole process and starting
Speaker 2: to work at it and finding little things. And I
Speaker 2: was taking the things that I'd watched from watching the
Speaker 2: best players in the world and trying to maybe incorporate
Speaker 2: that into my own game, but maybe being more aggressive
Speaker 2: in those things and pushing the ball further down there.
Speaker 2: And so I just really kind of love the process.
Speaker 2: I think getting away from my own game and watching
Speaker 2: the best players in the world it inspired me in
Speaker 2: some ways. And so, you know, I played, I worked
Speaker 2: my events for NBC and Golf Channel last year. I
Speaker 2: snuck in four different events after I became eligible in June.
Speaker 2: Not that I played any good, but I thought, you
Speaker 2: know what, if I could devote all my time to this,
Speaker 2: I think it's something that I'd really enjoy. And so
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed getting back into it this year. I've played,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't play every week. I play about
Speaker 2: every other week, and so but I've I've had a
Speaker 2: lot of fun with it. And some of it's been,
Speaker 2: you know, falling into a couple of you know, habits
Speaker 2: that I've had in the past, whether it was watching
Speaker 2: the scoreboard a little too much or or you know,
Speaker 2: oh i'm hitting it pretty good. Maybe I'll spend as
Speaker 2: much time at it today, those kind of things to
Speaker 2: you know what, really I need to be ready to
Speaker 2: play each and every week. And it's a different kind
Speaker 2: of focus, it's a different mentality, but it's something that
Speaker 2: I've really learned to embrace. My families embraced it. They
Speaker 2: enjoy watching me play golf. They don't come to a
Speaker 2: lot of tournaments, but you know, they watch on TV
Speaker 2: and those kind of things. And also they see the
Speaker 2: work that I put in when I'm at home. It
Speaker 2: was hard for them to see that in television, you know,
Speaker 2: doing TV. Yes, you do a lot of reading in
Speaker 2: those things. And the weeks when I was working were
Speaker 2: extremely busy, but I had a lot of free time.
Speaker 2: And so another thing is like I want to model
Speaker 2: for my kids what hard work looks like. And I
Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily able to do that in television or they
Speaker 2: couldn't really see it. But now that I'm playing again,
Speaker 2: they can see the work that I put in, not
Speaker 2: only in the golf course, but in the gym, taking
Speaker 2: care of my body, you know, doing things to get
Speaker 2: my mind in the right, you know, the right space
Speaker 2: in order to compete. And I've just I've really enjoyed
Speaker 2: all the things that I've learned trying to apply that
Speaker 2: and you know, some new wrinkles into my game that
Speaker 2: I would say, some things that I wasn't able to
Speaker 2: do you know later in my regular PG tour career
Speaker 2: that I'm able to do now. I'm hitting the ball further,
Speaker 2: my training has changed quite a bit, and you know,
Speaker 2: just really enjoying the competition is fine, the guys are great,
Speaker 2: and it's it's more friendly, but when it comes down
Speaker 2: to it on Sunday, it's the same feelings. It's the
Speaker 2: same feelings of trying to win a golf tournament, trying
Speaker 2: to beat people. And I really I didn't realize I
Speaker 2: missed that until I got back into it, and you
Speaker 2: know that's really what drives me. Now.
Speaker 1: Well, I can't thank you enough for talking to me,
Speaker 1: and I am going to put it out there justin
Speaker 1: Leonard Ryder Cup Captain. Let's let's let's let's get the
Speaker 1: ball rolling. It started here, so when it happens, you
Speaker 1: can say this was this was the tipping point in
Speaker 1: the catalyst to get get the name in the hat.
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, I think you could do a
Speaker 1: hell of a job and I'm pushing the I'm gonna sart,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get buttons. Justin, Justin, Beth Page, Justin, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna hand him out.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Claude. I appreciate it, Always appreciate your insight.
Speaker 2: And Okay, if it happens, I'll be sure and take
Speaker 2: care of you in some way.
Speaker 1: I just want to drive one of the carts. That's it.
Speaker 1: If you if you get there, just give me the
Speaker 1: cart driver job. I saw a lot of guys doing
Speaker 1: that last week. I think I'm good enough to drive
Speaker 1: a cart somewhere and just drive it and make sure
Speaker 1: everybody's got water.
Speaker 2: The job is yours.
Speaker 1: Great talking to you, take care. So that was Justin Leonard,
Speaker 1: and I thought Justin had some really good stuff to say.
Speaker 1: And listen, I think that any time the US side
Speaker 1: gets beat in a Ryder Cup, there's always kind of
Speaker 1: this porsmotem of trying to figure out what happened. I
Speaker 1: thought that he gave some really good insights to someone
Speaker 1: who's been on the team before. He's been on a
Speaker 1: winning side, he's been on a losing side. And listen,
Speaker 1: I think that the caliber of players that the US
Speaker 1: has Beth Page I think they on paper, I think again,
Speaker 1: because it's the US, because it's beth Page, because of
Speaker 1: the crowd. I think they'll probably go in as the
Speaker 1: favorites again. But as we just saw, I think you
Speaker 1: can throw a lot of that stuff out of the window.
Speaker 1: And as I said, players play the captains, yes, but
Speaker 1: the US they just got out played. And you can
Speaker 1: try and figure out and that's what everybody's trying to do.
Speaker 1: But ultimately it came down to the Europeans made more putts,
Speaker 1: they chipped in, and they got the job done. The
Speaker 1: US didn't. We'll see at Bethpage in two years. That's different.
Speaker 1: If you're an American fan, you hope so and if
Speaker 1: you're a European fan, you're hoping that maybe they do
Speaker 1: get Luke Donald to come back as captain and see
Speaker 1: if they can dominate. But it was a fun week,
Speaker 1: not the outcome that the US wanted. But Ryder Cups
Speaker 1: are always amazing to be a part of. Son of
Speaker 1: a Butcher comes to you every Wednesday. We will see
Speaker 1: you next week.