WEBVTT - Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.640 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.760 Chuck and Jerry's not here. We are and we're pretty 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.400 sure that both of us are here. But it's possible 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.880 just be this here, and this is stuff you should know. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:31.760 That's right. Diving into philosophy again, this one sollipsism, perhaps 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:37.319 the most naval, gayzy, sort of unintelligible aspect of all 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.280 of them, which is that sort of old classic stoner 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.960 college dorm room thing. How do we know if anything 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.320 is real? What if it's as all in this part 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:48.920 of it? What if it's all just a simulation? 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.559 Yeah, that's one example of what it could be. But 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.760 there's a couple of things about this one, as annoying 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:01.240 as it is, because if you're if you're arguing for solypsism, 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.240 and I don't want to say you're syllopsist, because there's 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:10.040 basically nobody out there who's an actual syllopsist, Like you 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.440 can just keep saying like, but yeah, how do you know? 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.520 But yeah, how do you know? There doesn't seem to 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:22.720 be any more reducted argument in all of philosophy, all 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:28.520 other philosophy can essentially be argued against by solyopsism. And 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.360 the reason why is because the basis of solypsism is 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:38.240 that there is no reality. It's just you, you hearing this. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.160 I don't exist, Chuck doesn't exist, this podcast doesn't exist. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:47.360 Nothing exists except for your mind. And that's the basis 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.680 of everything that you think is real. And none of 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.440 us are actually doing anything that you're not projecting out 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.320 of your mind. That's sollpsism and it sounds mind blowing, 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.520 but like I said, it's also annoying, and it's also 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.040 extremely simple, so much so that it can deceive you 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.720 into thinking that it means more than it does. It doesn't. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.920 It's it's as basic as that. But again, as annoying 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.440 as it is, it is in some ways a useful 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.680 argument because if you really want to make a philosopher 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.320 rigorous in their argument, have them take on sollipsism or 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:23.080 some form of it. 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:23.919 Yeah. 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.920 I think Olivia found something online that said, like, no modern, 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.480 like legitimate philosopher even takes part in these arguments because 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.400 it's just such like, hey, get off the couch with 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:40.160 your brong and maybe talk about something some real philosophy well. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.040 Also, the other part of it too is if you 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.760 were a genuine philosopher and you genuinely believe that nothing 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.200 was real except in your mind, there's zero point for 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.720 you to do anything like write a philosophy paper for solipsism, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.760 because nobody's out there to read it in actuality. So 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.880 what's the point. You're by yourself in the entire universe 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.560 so much so that the universe doesn't even exist outside 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.520 of your mind. You're by yourself in some incomprehensible form 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.520 of existence. It's just weird and depressing in a lot 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:13.000 of ways. 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.959 Yeah, for sure we should mention the skeptics a little 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.359 bit because that's sort of that sort of lays the 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:25.120 groundwork for solyopsism a little bit. The skeptics started around 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.760 the third century BCE. The word itself came from the 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:33.600 Greek term meaning inquiry or examination, and they were basically like, hey, 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:39.440 it's not possible to have like some knowledge to make 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:44.240 definitive judgments, arguing against the stoics, who said, no, you 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.520 should be able to test claims using, you know, stuff 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.920 that we can see and hear, using our senses, and 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:53.680 the skeptics and this sort of laid the ground of 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.119 what was to come for solopsism basically said like, hey, 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.640 we can all be deceived, though, what about the case 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.800 of idea nical twins? You could you could be deceived there, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.560 or you could have a sensory experience if you're talking 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.840 about trusting your senses that aren't connected to reality, Like 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.600 that's what a dream is. Yeah, And dreams sort of 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.960 play into the whole thing, at least at the beginning. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.200 Yeah, the skeptics said, you ever had a dream dingus? Yeah, 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:19.560 how are you gonna how are you going to trust 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.640 your senses with that? And so skepticism, like you said, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.080 is kind of an extension of it, a basis of it. 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.679 It's not quite there, but enough that sollipsism is often 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.320 thought of as an extreme form of skepticism. Sometimes it's 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:39.920 also called global skepticism, like your skeptical everything and then uh, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.400 it's also sometimes called mondo scepto. 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.000 Uh. Speaking of the dreams, though, there was a Taois 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.919 philosopher named juang Zi that in this also sort of 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.120 like the groundwork was, Hey, if I wake up from 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.800 a dream and I was a you know, an a 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.440 will debeast in that dream, how to I know that 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.839 I'm not really a will Tobeaston that this is the dream. 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.880 Yeah, and all this again, yes it does seem kind 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:12.359 of bongish or bong adjacent for sure, But this is 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.279 the kind of stuff that philosophers care about. Like it's 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.920 called epistemology. Epistemiology I like to add a lot of 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.800 syllables sometimes, so I'm not quite sure which one. But 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.160 it's the basis of how we know what we know, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.560 how we gain knowledge. And the point of this, of 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.160 all this stuff, as people were kind of building on it, 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.920 is to say, like we need to kind of figure 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.000 out how we do know, because if you really stop 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.800 and think about it, we're not quite sure exactly how 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.720 we know anything. And that whole thing was picked up 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.920 in the seventeenth century by Descartes and his very famous 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.279 quote I think therefore I AM came out of this right. 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.920 Yeah, And that's you know, basically saying like, hey, I 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.960 know that I am. I'm doing the thinking. I have 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.960 a brain, and but that's about all I know. They 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:08.840 you know, Descartes was the first one that came in 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.440 and said, hey, maybe we should get a system called 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:16.240 methodic doubt. Great band name to determine if like, hey, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.000 you're saying something is truth, like one of the truths. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.920 We should be able to test this, but things are fallible, 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.520 like math, you can make mistakes in you can't look 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.760 at tradition of a culture because you know, people might 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.279 disagree with that kind of thing. And then the idea 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:39.440 of an evil demon coming in and basically kind of 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.400 taking hold of your consciousness and saying that you're you're 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:47.760 having all these illusions and that's inhabited inside of you. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.080 Yeah, so that evil demon thing too. It's like, as 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.040 we'll see, it's been updated in much more modern form. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.160 But Descartes was the first one to really kind of 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:01.279 say it's possible. Especially we should say cart believed in God, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.400 that the extension of that I think therefore I am, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.800 is also that anything I can just intuitively know is real, 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.480 like God is real. So he believed that there definitely 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.440 was God. So he was arguing like, okay, if we 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.480 believe in God, then there we have to entertain the 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.240 possibility that it's not just you know, our minds that 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.920 are projecting this, but that we're we're being diluted, that 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.920 we're like an entire universe is being created for us 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.600 by this evil demon. This is his seventeenth century application 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.240 of it, but it's it's like we, like I said, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.160 it kind of formed these or it's been updated in 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.120 modern forms, and that really kind of that's where it 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.320 gets super tough, because it's like, Okay, yeah, it's ridiculous 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.000 that you're you're the only person who exists and all 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.640 the rest of us don't exist, or even more creepy, 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.440 this is where it gets it to me. Okay, like 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.320 when you start to try to argue against sollipsism, one 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.440 of the ways that you're going to go is that 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.280 other people have experiences and thoughts and emotions too, so 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:19.320 that totally discounts the idea that you're the only entity, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.680 you're the only self in the entire universe, and that 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.760 all of this is just in your mind. But then 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:28.440 you have to ask, like, well, wait a minute, how 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.040 do you know other people have experiences in thoughts and 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.120 feelings like you do. There's no way for you to 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.000 know that, and there's actually no way for them to 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.480 get that across to you in any provable way. And 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.200 then you just kind of go like, oh, it's a 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.800 little scary. At least I do it's the kind of 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.240 thing that keeps me up at night. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.520 Well, the word itself, if you want to break it down, 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.000 it first appeared in eighteen sixty nine from Kant and 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.880 I think it's Latin for solace from a loone in ipsy, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.000 meaning self. And this isn't the kind of thing where 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.000 like at the beginning, people are like, wow, this is 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.600 really holds a lot of water. From the beginning, it 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:16.800 was pretty ridiculous, and philosophers thought it was pretty ridiculous. Oh, 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:21.040 here's a quote no great philosopher has espoused solypsism. It 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.840 is the quote that Lvia found. Because you know, if 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.880 you believe that there's nothing, then there you can't have 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.520 an argument about anything, because, like you said at the beginning, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.320 a solypsis would just come in and go like, well. 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:36.080 How do you know prove it? 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.680 You can't prove that because you even your proof isn't 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.040 proof because it's not real. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.079 Yeah. One of the other things too, just to kind 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.520 of get this into perspective, is like you can't even 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.000 say that you have a brain because everything you know 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.680 about a brain, you've you've basically you're not born with 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.120 the concept of a brain. You learn that from the 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.640 external world, and if the external world doesn't exist, then 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.080 maybe brains don't exist, Like maybe you just don't can't 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.120 even conceive of who you are, and that's the ultimate problem. 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.240 You just you can just keep reducing it, like you 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.679 can't prove how you know what you know. And I 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.840 feel like that's really kind of set us up for 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:17.840 a break. Who do you think? 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:19.320 Yeah, we'll be right back. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.840 So one of the things I kind of talked about 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.040 earlier before the break, Chuck, was that the as far 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.640 as philosophy goes, like if you're trying to actually apply 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.320 this to philosophical arguments or maybe like real world kind 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.440 of stuff, is that it has to do with other 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.720 minds and the fact that we can't ever fully understand 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.320 what other people are thinking. And then as relates to sollipsism, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.880 we can't really prove that other people are thinking. And 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:17.439 there's actually some not just philosophers, but neuroscientists who've kind 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.360 of investigated this because it is an interesting question, Like 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.000 it's that same kind of question like how do I 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.240 know that we both experience the same color green in 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.000 the exact same way, and that what you call green 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:35.160 I actually think is blue? Like, I experience it as 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.680 what you would experience blue, but I call it green 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.720 because I think that's what you're talking about too. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.200 Yeah, And in terms of neuroscience, you know, you're talking 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.760 about maybe a technology where you could brain splice and 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.320 you could literally maybe get someone inside someone else's head. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.160 But even then, it's not like some sort of full 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.960 proof solipsistic argument, because even if you were sending signals 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.840 from one brain to another, it's still going to be 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.959 a subjective experience and you wouldn't have any idea even 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.080 though you're getting the signals from their brain, like the 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.920 subjective nature of it, like you can't you can't gauge 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:14.760 subjectivity scientifically. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.320 Yeah, And there's this example of like, Okay, one person 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.320 that you're connected to the brain of is saying like, 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.079 I'm thinking of a red apple, and the other person 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.160 with the other connected brain is like, yep, I can 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.440 see the red apple that you're thinking of. But again 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.680 that to that person, red is what the other person 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.120 would think of as blue, and you can't possibly know 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.720 that that person is thinking of what would be actually 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.400 a blue apple and calling it red. But the thing 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.920 is you can you can just be like, okay, person 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.840 number two. Now you think of a red apple, and 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.079 we'll see what person number one thinks of it if 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.600 it matches their conception. It'd be really easy to find 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.599 that out if you ask me. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.560 Yeah, and if that was a test subject, they'd say, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:12:59.920 why is Chuck walking into traffic? 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:02.360 What's going on? 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.079 Yeah? I mean we should say here, like all of 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.000 this does require brain implants, and I just don't feel 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.200 like there's anybody trustworthy to put an implant in your 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:12.920 brain right now. 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:14.480 Yeah, that's true. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.040 There's also this concept of a philosophical zombie, right, They're 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.600 called p zombies, and it kind of ties in with 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.240 what I was saying, Like, we can't ever say that 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.560 somebody else is thinking or emoting, because we can conceive 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.680 of something that looks like a human, acts like a human, 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.280 has all the same thought processes of a human, maybe 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.319 even has emotions and all that stuff, but they're missing 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.400 what it means to be a human, which is the 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:48.160 experience of experiencing something. Right, So, like that person can 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.680 eat an apple and taste what an apple tastes like, 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.680 but they will never feel what it feels like to 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:56.839 taste an apple that's like really delicious, You know what 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.199 I'm saying, and some people come up with it, came 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.000 up with the idea of a p zombie, a philosophical 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.840 zombie to try to investigate like what it is that 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.440 makes humans humans? And that's kind of what they came 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:07.800 up with. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.960 Yeah, and if you you know, as AI comes on 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.760 more and more, and I know you tackled some of 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.280 this in the End of the World your special podcast 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:22.760 series for that. But the idea of like AI becoming 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.680 sentient or conscious or whatever, Like, how were we going 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.480 to know if that's even happening, because it's not just 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.480 if it knows so much stuff it can you know, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.640 AI can learn facts and things, but like it's that 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.880 that subjectivity of a human or a I guess just 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.760 an experience because it wouldn't be human. And like, how 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:45.440 do we know if that's happening to an AI? 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.640 Yeah, or a person too, you know, like it's just 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.400 and again, like I think you kind of nail it 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.480 on the head, like all this seems like navel gazing, 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.520 but there is like some utility to it. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.200 Well, let's talk about some of the I guess varieties 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.360 of solypsism that they've come up with over the years. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:10.720 There's one called metaphysical solepism. That's basically that an individual 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.720 is like yourself is all that there is nothing else 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.000 has any independent reality at all. 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:18.040 Then there is. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:23.600 Epistemological solypsism, and that is it is not even possible 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.000 to know where anything outside our individual consciousness exists or 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:28.640 is real. 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.400 And that one is actually like kind of a step 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.600 down from metaphysical. They're like, we're not saying that nothing 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:40.080 else in the universe exists but your mind, but we're saying, like, 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:41.640 like you and I were just talking about with p 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.880 zombies and AI, like we can't prove that anybody else 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.400 has those thoughts some feelings besides the thinker. 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.320 Right, not the famous statue, but you know, a real thinker. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.160 There's methodological methodological soism. I got that extra ow in there, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.360 and that means it's not possible to even start to 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:09.280 analyze the world except through your own individual consciousness and lens. 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:10.440 Which that makes sense. 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.000 Yeah, it does. But I saw that it really gets 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.760 tricky with research because at base, methodological sollaptism says you 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.600 don't need to mess with data or other people's research, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.760 just what do you think about the subject, And that 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:29.400 doesn't really hold water for like a research paper, because yeah, 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.560 I mean that's a good place to start. You can't 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.400 just dive in, or I guess you can, but it's 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.280 also like, what are your conceptions about this, and let's 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.840 start from there and then go figure out if that's correct. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.720 Like this is just sticking with the what do you 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.200 think about this? And write the research paper. So it's 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.240 not a really good idea, frankly, and then also, Chuck, 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:53.720 there's just a straight up bad idea. Ethical solypsism also 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.480 called pos sollopsism. Yeah. 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.320 I think there's a professor from m team name a 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.640 Plosis or rather or maybe teaches philosophy named Casper Hair 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.760 and he had a book in two thousand and nine 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.200 called On Myself and Other Less Important Subjects where he 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.840 was he was arguing a lesser version of ethical sollipsism, 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.639 which is the idea that other things and people might exist, 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.840 but we have no obligation to any of those people 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.000 or ideas except for our own. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.560 No, And I think ultimately at the end he's like, 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:34.080 but for us, for the person, the individual, to lead 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.520 a fuller life, you kind of do need people here 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.119 or there, So you don't want to just completely screw 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.960 over everybody for yourself. But that's the basis of what's 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.720 called ethical solaptism, that you have no moral obligation to 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.640 anyone except yourself. And then the other thing that really 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.160 stuck out to me, Chuck, was that you have no 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.959 moral obligation to anybody but yourself right now, So you 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.040 don't even have to look out for your future self. 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.600 All you need to care about is your present self. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.000 And that's why I call it pos solypsism. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.520 Yeah, piece of what piece of s. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.920 There are also lots of little sort of side ideas 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.280 that come along if you're gonna gaze at your navel 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.600 about solypsism. And one is the famous brain in a 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.560 vat or the futurama or the matrix idea, which is 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.879 all you are maybe is a brain floating in a 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.240 jar with some life sustaining liquid and it's hooked up 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.520 to a computer and everything you see is a simulation. 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.840 Yeah, and this is where we kind of get into 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.800 the modern updated versions of Descartes evil demon right, Like, 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.240 what's keeping you in the brain in vat? What's running 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:50.280 that simulation for you? Yeah? There's also the simulation hypothesis, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.600 which came from Nick Bostrom, which I did do a 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.600 whole episode on End of the World on because it 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.000 just fascinates me. But it's a lot of people confuse 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:01.959 it with the brain and a vat. But it's different 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:08.680 because in the simulation hypothesis, which is that if if 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.280 civilization becomes advanced, like say, are we're there ancestors, there 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.600 are descendants, they just keep getting more and more technologically advanced, 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:23.200 that they can invent simulations that are indistinguishable from reality, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.080 and they run a bunch of simulations over and over again, 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.480 like say, they sell copies of the simulation game, so 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.400 one hundred million simulations are ever created over the course 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.919 of history. Then, mathematically speaking, since we can't distinguish between 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.440 reality and a simulation, it makes it's much likelier that 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.439 you and I exist in a simulation rather than the 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:51.239 actual one version of reality that the simulations are based on. Right, 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.000 And the thing that people get mixed up with the 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.639 brain in a vat is that the brain in the 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.560 vat in reality, your brain in a vat in the 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.600 simular in reality, your reality simulated. But to you it's reality. 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.879 There's nothing different. There's no other like reality that you 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.600 could wake up to that's just reality. It's essentially like 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:17.120 a techno version of creationism. Essentially, like if you replace 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.240 whoever came up with the code for the simulation with God, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:23.160 it's essentially saying the same thing. 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.000 Yeah. 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.160 There's also and this is sort of along those lines, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.760 the experience machine idea. There's a philosopher named Robert Nozick 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.720 in a nineteen seventy four book that said, how about 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.639 this for a thought experiment. I don't think that people 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.080 are just basically hedonistic in life, And what if what 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.159 would people choose if they could be attached to a 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.480 machine they can simulate any experience, like as if it 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.840 were identical and real and you thought it was real, Like, 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:53.840 would it be hedonistic? 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:55.359 Would you choose falling in love with you? 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.640 Would you choose to write, you know, create a great 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.320 piece of art or something like that? And then that 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.399 you know, there are different versions of that, like what 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.560 if it's for two years at a time, what if 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.960 it's your whole lives? And the counter to that usually 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.040 is somebody saying, yeah, but people, it's not reality, and 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.600 people aren't engaged in reality. In humans inherently want to 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:16.840 engage with reality. 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.960 Yeah, and like to sweeten the pot. Noasick was like, like, 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.000 you will have nothing but pleasure for the rest of 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.040 your life, all all the pleasure you want. You will 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.919 never be able to distinguish it from what life was 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.719 like before. You won't remember that there was a life before. Like, 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.320 it will be amazing. And something like seventy four to 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.800 eighty percent of people who are posed this thought experiment 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.560 say like, nah, I don't want to do that. Even 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.679 though life is suffering in a lot of ways and 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.800 sucks and can be boring and is definitely not one 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:53.800 hundred percent pleasure all the time, most people still want 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:58.000 to be engaged in reality. And that's again, like, it's 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.560 not just a cool thought experiment. I use that to 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.439 argue against the idea that humans are at bottom, just 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.800 nothing but hedonistic creatures who seek out nothing but to 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:11.159 increase their pleasure. Knowsick really kind of demolished that with 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:12.280 that thought experiment. 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.080 Yeah, I think, what in the matrix? What in Joey pants? 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:17.400 Fully on board with the simulation. 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:20.520 I don't remember. I don't remember that. 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:22.399 I think he was because I think he was like 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.760 eating the steak and they were like, yeah, but the 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.359 stake's not real and he's like, yeah, but you know, 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.200 it tastes, tastes real, tastes good to me, something along 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:31.960 those lines. But yeah, that's pretty interesting. 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:34.800 Do you want to take our second break and come 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.359 back and talk about our favorite part of this criticisms. 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:53.760 Yeah, let's journey into K three. 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:04.080 All right. 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.800 So when it comes to criticisms of sollipsism not from us. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:12.320 There are some famous stories, one of which very famous 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:16.480 story in philosophy circles as at least you're not a philosopher, 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.440 you probably would be like once I got kicking the 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.960 rock for But it was an eighteenth century story about 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:27.000 writer Samuel Johnson who was in a I guess debate 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:31.760 with the philosopher named George Berkeley, and Berkeley said, hey, 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:38.560 Descartes's mind body dualism is faulty, and everything that appears 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.240 to have existence is just made up in your mind. Well, 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:44.680 first Berkeley said it's impossible to refute this, and that's 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.080 when cheeky old Samuel Johnson came in and kicked a 0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:52.600