1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smith and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: I've never told your production if I heart radio. 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 2: Wow my introduction. Okay, so just to peek behind the curtains. 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: I think Annie has already alluded to this because we 5 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: have been kind of mia this week. Seattle, which we 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: went on for my birthday trip in September it is 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: now October fourth four, not only gave me a delightful 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 2: time in such great views, but also COVID. So I 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: have been struggling a little bit this week. I will 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: say it has not been as bad as the previous 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: COVID episode, but it has affected me to the point that, yes, 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: I have gotten an ultra stuffy or sexy, low key voice. 13 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: That very deep sound that you hear it is my voice. Apologies, 14 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: but it also sounds like I'm very stuffed up. So again, 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: apologies ASMR. Unlike the ones people have requested, this is 16 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: against your will, and I apologize, but as you know, 17 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: we have to give you the content. We want to 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: give you this content, and I'm actually pretty excited because 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: we've talked about this movie for so long, to the 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: point that Annie thought we had already done an episode. 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I I thought we had because you, I believe 22 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: it told me so much about it. I watched it, Yes, 23 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: and I knew I had watched it, and I was like, 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: does that mean we did an episode on it or 25 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: was I just. 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: Doing that anywhere? Like I'm interested in this, let me 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 3: see it. 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you took a whole big list of my nineties 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: classics and Death Becomes Her Yes, that is the movie 30 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: is one of them that we talked about for a while. 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, we need to do this, even though 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: where it lies under like feminist movies, it is not. 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: I guess we could twist it and say sure, sure, sure, 34 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: because there are some conversations around it that I love 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: that has become of it. But in the end, it's like, oh, 36 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: this didn't really age well if you're watching it just 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 2: from one perspective. But we'll get into that in a minute. 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: And for one of this month's movies, yes, I mean 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: we're gonna do a few. I have a feeling at 40 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: least two, because you know, it's October is the spooky season, 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: one of Annie's favorites in mine too, for so many 42 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: other reasons, not just because of horror. I know, don't 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: get me any but you know, false season, False season 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 2: just feels good anyway, So we decided again to jump 45 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: into this classic. Yes, as you may suspect, it is 46 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: a Sam's Choice movie that again has not really aged well, 47 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 2: but at the same time has kind of fought against 48 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: what you would think. Yeah, yeah, so before we start 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: content warning, there is of course murder and death, sexism, agism, 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 2: fat phobia, and all things the early nineties used as 51 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: comedic relief that has not translated well, I will say, 52 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: but does have a lot of thoughts and conversations around 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: And yeah, again we're talking about the cult classic that 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: becomes her with icons Meryl Streep, Goldiehn and Bruce Willis, Yes, surprising, 55 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: and I do want to talk about the fact that 56 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: their acting was what really carries this movie. Like, even 57 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: with all of the controversy, you have a listers in 58 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: here that just brings about such great chemistry with unlikely characters. 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: So Meryl Streep playing this very comedic character was different 60 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: for her at this point. Bruce Willis coming out of 61 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: doing all the diehards to this character was very like 62 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: shocking for so many and they did a great job. 63 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: And the movie was written by David Cope and Martin 64 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: Donovan and directed by Robert Zis, which was coming around 65 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: with all of the back that the Future who framed 66 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: Roger Rabbit, which I didn't realize was his movie, But 67 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: you know, we've talked about that too, and I think 68 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: we need to come back to that. 69 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 3: Have you watch that? Was that on your list? It's 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: too scary? No, I should rewatch it. 71 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: But when I saw it as a kid, it's scary. 72 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: Perfect for October. 73 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: I love that. This is one of those movies that 74 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: are not scary, but it is scary to you. And 75 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: that's perfect because I have several of those. I have 76 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: several of those. And the reviews, well, they were mixed. 77 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: Rotten Tomatoes was sitting at like fifty five percent, and 78 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: even Siskel and Ebert and these are old school movie critics, 79 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: I hope, you know, but I might just be that 80 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: old because I know there they are. The company is 81 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: still around because Robert Ebert has died since then, and 82 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 2: so as Siskel, I believe, but like well anyway, but 83 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: they gave him a thumbs down, both of them did. 84 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: But the movie made quite a bit of money, and 85 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: they even won an a Academy Award and a BAFTA 86 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: for their visual effects and not so surprising, Streep was 87 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: nominated for a Golden Globe, but she didn't win, so 88 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: you know, heartbreak of heartbreaks. So let's jump into the movie. 89 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: We are introduced to the main characters Madeline Ashton or 90 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: Mad's played by Meryl Streep, Helen hell Sharp played by 91 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: Goldie Hawn, and doctor Ernest Menville played by Bruce Willis, 92 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: and the latter are attending mass play which is not 93 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: getting a good reception, but Ernest is smitten. Ernest, who 94 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: is currently engaged to Helen, tries to convince her that 95 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: he would never leave her for Mads, which is Helen's 96 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: greatest fear and kind of a test she puts on 97 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: her men because they have left her for her and 98 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: even though he said na, na, no, never gonna happen, alas, 99 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: it is a lie. As we soon see him and 100 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: Madeline get married, leaving Helen behind, we didn't see that 101 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: Helen has not taken it well and has gotten lost 102 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: in her obsession with her hate for Madeleine accompanied by 103 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: her love for Frosting and cats of course, of course cats. 104 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: Helen is then hospitalized and undergoing intense therapy where her 105 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: obsession continues and drives all the other patients mad as well. 106 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 2: Mad Mads, you know what I'm saying. But then we 107 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: cut to see how miserable Madeleine and Earnest are, and 108 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: Madeline is under constant scrutiny and fear as she grows 109 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: older and is no longer in the acting world or 110 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: welcomed anyway. And Earnest, a once promising plastic surgeon, is 111 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 2: now an alcoholic mortician, and by the way, they hate 112 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: each other, of course, but they get an invite to 113 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: Helen's book release party, which throws Madeline down the road 114 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: to trying to look her best, or at least better 115 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: than Helen, trying to look younger and making Helen jealous. Unfortunately, 116 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: Madeleine has hit the limit of the treatment she is 117 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: wanting because her causing her to lose it. But she 118 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: does receive a business card with the name of a 119 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: wealthy socialite, Lisa vond Ruman, who works miracle for her clients. 120 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: Wink wink, jump to Madeline in Earnest attending Helen's party, 121 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: where they see Helen for the first time in years, 122 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: and she has changed remarkably and looks even younger. More 123 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: glamorous and way skinnier, y'all. The fat suit actually, in 124 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: comparison to the other fat suits I've seen recently, is better, 125 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: but is still really really offensive. Yeah, both of those things, 126 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: but whatever. Here Helen begins her groundwork of destroying Madeline 127 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: by turning Earnest against her. Yes, we see all these 128 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: in the behind the scenes, but Madeleine, quite shaken from 129 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: her encounter with Helen, goes to get comfort in her 130 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: much younger lover, who also rejects her and tells her 131 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: to find someone in her own age. Essentially really sad. 132 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: She leaves in distress, but finds Liesel's card and rushes 133 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: to Liesel's mansion for a fix. Here we meet Liesel 134 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: played by beautiful Isabella Rosalini. If you know, you know. 135 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: She gives her eerie spiel about the Fountain of Youth 136 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: and for a large some of money and gives it 137 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: to Madeleine, and as she she takes the potion, she 138 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: then gives Madeleine this morning quote, take care of yourself. 139 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: You and your body are going to be together a 140 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: long time. Be good to it. Also, she needs to 141 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: disappear in ten years, as she'll be immortal and her 142 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: looks won't change, and then also talks about others who 143 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: have popped up too early to cause a stir so 144 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: don't do that. Soon we see that the potion works 145 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: and she is excited to go live her new life, 146 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: but all the while, Helen has convinced Ernest that Madeleine 147 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: is the problem and reason why she and he can't 148 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: be together and why his life is so miserable, and 149 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,479 Speaker 2: the only way they can be together is to kill Madeleine, 150 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: which Ernest agrees to, but plans go awry as he 151 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: and Madelene get into an argument as soon as she 152 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: gets home, and he pushes her down the stairs very 153 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: dramatic fall, and thinking he has killed her, calls Helen 154 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: to come up with a new plan. But uh oh, 155 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: she isn't dead. Nope, she's just definitely broken like neck, 156 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: everything's broken twisted. After calling her a miracle, Ernest tries 157 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: to take her to the hospital, where the on care 158 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: doctor dies from shock of seeing her, and they return 159 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: home where he tries to fix her, but Helen has arrived, 160 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: not knowing that Madeleine was not quite dead, and they 161 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: get into a fight, with Madeline shooting her in the stomach, 162 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: but of course, Helen is also not dead, and they 163 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: discover they have both taken the potion, and Ernest realize 164 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: that they're not miracles, but they used magic, which is, 165 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: you know, kind of the same thing. After a long 166 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: fight scene, long hilarious fight scene with a hole in 167 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: her stomach, so many things, the ladies hash out their 168 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: differences and come to Ernest to ask them to fix 169 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: them because they are in quite a state, which he does, 170 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,599 Speaker 2: but Stacey, he's leaving them both. He's not going to 171 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 2: be a part of this, and after they are fixed, 172 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 2: they realize they need Ernest if they ever need a 173 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: touch up or any of the fixings, So hit him 174 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: in the head with a vase because you know, why 175 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: not and take him to Lisel to convince him to 176 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 2: take the potion. But when he wakes up, he's sitting 177 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: with Liesol, who tries to talk him into taking the potion, 178 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: but he realizes that he doesn't want to live forever 179 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: and that that type existence isn't natural or healthy, and 180 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: he tries to escape with the potion. He tries to leave. 181 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: All the while there's a giant party with all the 182 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: people who has also taken the potion. James z Grenda Garbo, Elvis, 183 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: you know, all those people. Soon he's able to escape, 184 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 2: though Madeleine and Helen try to get him back. Then 185 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 2: we cut to a final scene at Ernest's funeral where 186 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: they talk about how eternal life for him was his 187 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: legacy and his children, and we see Helen and Madeline 188 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: in the back laughing and cackling, but it is Ernest 189 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: who has the last last as they are stuck together 190 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: miserably and crumbling forever. Literally they fall apart. Yeah, the end. 191 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: So I felt like there were so many things, but 192 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: it's such a fantastic idea of a movie that that 193 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: really did come off in such a way that it 194 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: was huge for I think just being that cult classic. 195 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: Again. 196 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: The nineties gave us some really great movies, including things 197 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: like Beetlejuice in this and I just thought about Beetle 198 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: Juice because we were talking about Believe it's Monica Blucci, 199 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: who I think she's kind of on that same level 200 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: as like Isabella Rosalini of being this iconic sex symbol 201 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 2: that just kind of turns everybody's heads like who is that? 202 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: But anyway, but there's these movies have like garnered all 203 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: this attention because they were revolutionary, I believe at the time. 204 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: So with that, we're gonna talk about themes and tropes, 205 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: and it sounds I think the way the outline is stated, 206 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: it sounds like it's just hate for the movie. But 207 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 2: when I rewatched it, realizing how much I loved it 208 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: as a kid. To this this is one of those 209 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: many things that fed into the nineties strope of I'm 210 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: not that kind of girl conversation and competing with girls 211 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: as a thing. And I know that's been around for 212 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: a while, but I feel like the nineties and eighties 213 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: really pushed that hardcore. Even though it kind of hash 214 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 2: itself out, it really was like, h and the only 215 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: sane one we see here is a dude, And let's 216 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 2: be honest, the director doesn't have the best reputation when 217 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: it comes to the women he directs, So to me, 218 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: it was intentional and there was a lot of conversations, 219 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: a lot of articles talking about that. But I feel 220 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: like women and we're going to talk about like the 221 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 2: queer community really took it back and was like, Nah, 222 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: this isn't about you. It's for us. Meryl Streep and Goldiehan, 223 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: Isabella Rosellini is for us. So I think that's really changed. 224 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 2: But you know, we can't not talk about some of 225 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: these stropes that really fed into this era, which includes 226 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: women hating women, like the frenemies. The frenemies really came 227 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: through and I don't think that term had started when 228 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: this movie was about. But I mean this is quintessential 229 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 2: frenemies calling each other, mads calling each other. Hell come on, 230 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: like that's an immediate turn two. And yeah, always competing 231 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: with each other. That is the number one from Jump, 232 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: like using Madeline as a as a test for her 233 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: Men's the whole thing. 234 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I will say like for me because 235 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: I didn't the first time I watched this was last year, Right, 236 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: I do think that this there's a lot of really 237 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: interesting conversation in like dark satire and humor here that 238 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: we can relate to. 239 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: But it is got that problematic layer also in real life. 240 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: But I would say, like their frenemyness of like it's 241 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: very comical almost of how Hell's Helen was, like rewatching 242 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: scenes of Madeline getting murdered, she done like she was obsessed. 243 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before. Really Bruce Willis's character 244 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: who did come out looking like he was the best 245 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: one of them. He's the one that like they should 246 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: have been mad at him, right, but she was just 247 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: this idea of Madeline had ruined her life and kind 248 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: of those machinations she did of I'll tell them both like, oh, 249 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm not mad at you, he's the one that did it, 250 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: and then telling Bruce Willis's character, oh, I'm not mad 251 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: at you, she's the one that did it, and then 252 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: having this whole like murder plot. 253 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: Right. 254 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: It's a very exaggerated, of course, example of kind of 255 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: that idea, but it is comical in the sense of 256 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: I love how they have their like shovel fight and 257 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: then they're kind of like, oh. 258 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 4: They like talking out and all this time, okay, which 259 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 4: kind of notes like if you watch New Girl, this 260 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 4: is where I think it's funny because they talk about 261 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 4: the fact that dudes hit each other and then they're okay, 262 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 4: this is that kind of same notion that violence is 263 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 4: in the actual answer because everything's fine, and they're like, 264 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 4: that's not how that works. 265 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: It's like when violence get involved, people die, and you know, 266 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: here the people die. They just couldn't die and they 267 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: had to do this. So it was interesting to that 268 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: women hating women. I think this was something specific because 269 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: I was thinking about this when I was watching it, 270 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: and any maybe you weren't thinking about this too, that 271 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: monsters don't have any redeeming factors, and here the two 272 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: women have no redeeming factors to the audience, and they're 273 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: not supposed to. In fact, articles had written that this 274 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: was the point from the writer's perspective. They did not 275 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: want you to like him, that this was their Frankenstein, 276 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: and Frankenstein is not the victim, although it turns out 277 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: he is. Like people really like, yeah, yeah, you do. 278 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: But in the end, like this was that idea is 279 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: that you can't there there's no redeeming quality. They're just shady, 280 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: even at his funeral, his laugh that she's laughing at 281 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: them because they can't understand the greater wisdom that he 282 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: is given. 283 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: Right, right, And it's also like, I think that's part 284 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: of the reason why it's become a cult classic, because 285 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to see like these women just 286 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: be terrible. But yeah, like the other side of that 287 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: is it's the very tropy. Women just want to get 288 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: married and stay young forever, and they didn't care about 289 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: him at all. They just wanted the man, and we're 290 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: jealous of each other right when they had him, and 291 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: then when they had him, be like, oh, you're ruthless. 292 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: Like so I can see why. 293 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: It's like a really fun thing and I like, I 294 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: had a good time watching it, but it is also 295 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: kind of like yeah, well yeah. 296 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: And then another theme the obsession with youth, not men though, 297 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: because you know, they're the wise ones that understand this 298 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: is the growth. But I found it interesting. So they're 299 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 2: supposed to be in their late forties or fifties, and 300 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: then they are they're around the same age. 301 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 4: I think. 302 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: Okoliehan ended up being like forty seven, Merl Street ended 303 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: up being like forty four, which I was like, wait, me, 304 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 2: Alstt was younger than Goldiehn, which threw me off for 305 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: some reason. And then uh, Bruce Willis was the youngest 306 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: of them all and he was like thirty seven, and 307 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 2: I was like, really, balding does not help because Goldiehan, 308 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 2: my gosh, they are both in their late forties in 309 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 2: this movie, and I'm like, they're older than me, but 310 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: they look younger than me. I'm like, again, I understand 311 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: Hollywood make up all those things, so I get that 312 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: but still they looked amazing. Then to me in my head, 313 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: they were not in their forties late forties. None that 314 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 2: matters because it doesn't really matter, but like you can't 315 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: always tell, obviously, but like they are supposed to be 316 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 2: around that age. But with that we all understand about 317 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: like like they don't really talk about the biological clock, 318 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: which I'm really glad they don't, but it is said. 319 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: And I thought it was funny that when he dies 320 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: he ended up having like seven children, Yeah, like a 321 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: lot of children. And it was like he's supposed to 322 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: be also in his fifties and found his young wife, 323 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 2: and I'm like, huh, so in himself with his legacy, 324 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: he still had to have like a youthful interaction in 325 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 2: order to have that. So even though he didn't chase that, 326 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: he does chase that. He chases immortality through his children, 327 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: which is also oftentimes a mistake as well. 328 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and even the at his funeral, the preacher outright 329 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: says that. 330 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 3: But I also thought it was interesting. 331 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of illusions that are very purposeful to 332 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: stuff like Frankenstein, but also like God and him being 333 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: like the god of like he can grant this youth 334 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: and they're so like determined to have him because they 335 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: want to always look young. 336 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: But there are a lot of allusions to him being 337 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 3: like god. 338 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, and I did think that again though 339 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: they did say men are not obsessed with youths youth, 340 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: they are the wise one, but does says almost they're mascalated. 341 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: So it took him being even more masculated, like outright 342 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 2: being talked down on by women for him to grow 343 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: some balls. And I'm putting in quotes even though they 344 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: don't say that in order to like make him that 345 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: wise guy. And I'm like, this is some insult. 346 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: So much of that was present a lot of our 347 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: popular It's true. 348 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: A lot of people ate that up. 349 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: You you know, like, yeah, I mean he killed he 350 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: kills Batline because she's she's being real mean, but not. 351 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: She was, I don't understand. 352 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: But he's like, oh, I'm finally standing up for myself. 353 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 3: I'll kill her. 354 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 2: And then everybody kind of like roots for that a 355 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 2: little bit. They're like, oh, like it's. 356 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 3: Very yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, m hmmm, so 357 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 3: we see it. 358 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 2: I'm like, this is real in this day, and it's 359 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: this is real bad, real bad. Another theme that I'm 360 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: gonna put there because I saw this phrase a lot 361 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: when I was reading about this movie. But the Perils 362 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: of Mortal Sins again kind of do the same reference 363 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: about like being God playing God and him playing being 364 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: the God. Is the idea that vanity obviously is one 365 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: of the biggest things that women specifically have and a 366 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 2: fall prey to and succumb to, which again men don't know. 367 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 2: It's not necessarily about youth or vanity, but about immortality, 368 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 2: which I found interesting because that's kind of that reference 369 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: to Elvis and James Dean, like they don't necessarily care 370 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 2: about staying young because they all die young. Essentially, it's 371 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 2: just about that immortality. 372 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: It seems right, And I it's hard to watching this 373 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: now to know exactly like the intent, but I did 374 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: feel like that, like I said, there was a lot 375 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: of dark humor and satire and acknowledgment of women. We've 376 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: been trained to do this, We've been trained to our 377 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: value is in our our youth and our beauty and 378 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: fighting over that. And I did think there was a 379 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: lot of interesting commentary around that, which we've also talked 380 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: about in a ton of other things. 381 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 3: But like. 382 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: It's one of those conversations about women getting ahead doing 383 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:19,239 Speaker 1: what is maybe in quotes like anti feminist, but it 384 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: is the system we live in. It's like that kind 385 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: of reality we live in of yeah, getting cosmetic surgery 386 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: or what have you, all of the conversations we have 387 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: around that where we know, like that can in our society, 388 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: it's hard to blame someone for doing that, Yeah, But 389 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: seeing it in such a like campy, like escalated manner, 390 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: it's just interesting. I had a lot of thoughts about, like, huh, 391 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: because it's acknowledging that that's true, but it's also kind 392 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: of making fun of it. 393 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: Right. 394 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: Sure, I'm not sure if that's the right take, right, 395 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: but high start humored satire, so right. 396 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: I think there was definitely a conversation about who was 397 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 2: making fun of at who's Yeah, and that was one 398 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 2: of the bigger conversations like what they were trying to 399 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 2: do versus what it happened, which is great, what happened 400 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 2: was better results to this and understanding that yes this 401 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: is satirical, but were you actually made fun of? Right? 402 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: And under that perils of mortal sin, we see the 403 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: sin of comparison, because again this is back to Hell's 404 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: a mess, just competing with each other non stop, even 405 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 2: the pity party. You're the one who started this. You're 406 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 2: the one who were being with me. You're the one 407 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: who made fun of me. You're the one who took 408 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: my men, like all these things back and forth, even 409 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: in the hashing out, they were trying to do that, 410 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: and then also at the end they were comparing you 411 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 2: the one. I'm the one who has carried this out, 412 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: you know, like the constant back and forth. 413 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 414 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: But I thought that was also an interesting part of 415 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 2: this again, like when it comes to a theological look, 416 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: even though it's not a lot theologically, but it is, 417 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 2: there's an underlying depth to it, line to it. Yeah, 418 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: but yeah, And with that, yes, this is one of 419 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: the movies that people will say is a queer cult 420 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 2: classic and queer icon for many. Here's a quote from 421 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: Pace magazine from writer B. Panther who wrote this article 422 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: titled the queer immortality of Death Becomes Her. They right, 423 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: So what is it about Death Becomes Her that allows 424 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: for queer enjoyment? How can there be anything queer in 425 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 2: a film which, according to the screenwriters, has don't be 426 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: a natural as its moral center. There's a long history 427 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 2: of monsters and queers identifying with each other. Both are 428 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 2: called a natural because they defy social boundaries said to 429 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: be found within a divine order. Monsters like the ones 430 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: made by Victor Frankenstein or painted by Arnest Menvil walk 431 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: the supposedly firm line between living and dead, and queer 432 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 2: people similarly skirt hardened sexual and gender lines. It's a 433 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: logical link that a queer appreciation of death becomes or 434 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 2: begins with a willing identification with its monstrous characters. And 435 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: they continue to go on to dissect the characters individually 436 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: and then together and how they fit perfectly into those 437 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: queer role models that they see so much. And then 438 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: also the movie has actually been used as themes for 439 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: shows like RuPaul's Drag Race, And here's a quote from 440 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: the executive producer of that show about why the movie 441 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: was appropriate. They're fighting for beauty, they're against the system. 442 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: They're also villains, but we understand their complexity. We root 443 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: for the undead divas because they're trying to win a 444 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 2: game that's rigged against them. And to borrow an apocryphal 445 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: quote from Ginger Rogers, they sort of have to do 446 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: it backwards in high Hills, and I have heard that, 447 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: but yeah, like just coming in conversation about having to 448 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 2: spend money to look like something, to meet to someone 449 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: sat or just to stay relevant in the game, and 450 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: then to be noticed you have to be then perfectly skinny, 451 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: perfectly made up and somewhat successful and youthful. So I 452 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 2: was like, okay, And of course there's so much warned. 453 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: I talk about again, the depth of the characters conversations 454 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 2: with each other and how they cross boundaries, the makeup, 455 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: the costumes alone, this movie really did open up boundaries 456 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 2: that people talked about. Meryl Streep talked about the fact 457 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: that this will be the only and it was I 458 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: think the last movie that had so much CGI. She 459 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 2: said it was one of the hardest that she has 460 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: ever done, and it felt like she was just talking 461 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 2: to a puppet and it was miserable because she was like, 462 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: it would be like me talking to a can, talking 463 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: to pretending like it's Goldie Han. But if I was 464 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: off by a cinimeter, have to start all over again 465 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: because my head didn't go backwards in the right place. Yeah, 466 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: she was just like, I hated it. It was such 467 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: a great movie, and this movie is, and she says, 468 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,959 Speaker 2: this is a true depiction of the Hollywood scene and 469 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 2: it's obsession with age. So I feel like that's a 470 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: whole different conversation because you know, we know Meryl Streep 471 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: has always been very upfront about natural beauty and not 472 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: wanting to change herself, and she has she has become 473 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 2: somewhat controversial because she refused to conform to the norms 474 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 2: of what society was telling her, or at least Hollywood 475 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: was telling her at the time where it was really 476 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 2: really big. And then we have Goldie Han who like 477 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 2: leans into that and be like, yeah, I did all 478 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: this work. I love it, I want this from me, 479 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: and I did this for me, you know, like I 480 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: love that. This is such a juxtaposition of two actresses 481 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: who have very open conversations about this about their own 482 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: body and self. But yeah, it was an interesting take, 483 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 2: and it did open up so many doors when it 484 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: came to realizing how big CG I would be. Of course, 485 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,479 Speaker 2: to day is kind of changed and I don't understand 486 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: if they did that well for a nineties movie. What 487 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: happened to the Mummy too? 488 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: Oh, we don't have time for me to go into 489 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: the answer but I do know the answer, I will 490 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: say because I am a big nerd about this kind 491 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: of stuff. This was one of the first times industrial 492 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: light and magic. This film was did a skin graft 493 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: and it was one of the first times they did 494 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: graphics like this, and Jurassic Park was the next one 495 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: that they did, So I think that's probably one of 496 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: the reasons people were like the hill, she's got a poles. 497 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 3: Like that. 498 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 2: It looks so good, like even for the standard. And 499 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 2: again I was like, maybe I'm wrong, did I not? 500 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 4: No? 501 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you can tell it's like older, 502 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 3: but it still looks it. 503 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 2: Looks still good, like into person again. Can we talk about. 504 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: Oh, Samantha, I will, I would be happy to talk about. 505 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 2: And again, like I was like, maybe this is my 506 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: COVID brain, maybe I'm in a fox, but what this 507 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: was really good, Like her head going backwards and then 508 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 2: like trying to put it back on. It was so genius. 509 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 2: And of course it was also probably a compilation of 510 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 2: both like legit effects and and the CGI, because you know, 511 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: we did the contact for Goldie Hans's character to look dead, 512 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 2: her eyes and all that, Like, it was genius. The 513 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 2: voice that Meryl Streep had to put on or maybe 514 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: they cgi did, I don't know, to sound like her 515 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: whole neck was dislocated and like she was a mess. 516 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: But like it was an amazing like new standard for 517 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 2: the movies. 518 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, And it was in a lot of ways. 519 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: It was really fun and atmospheric. This is a good 520 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: Hellowe movie. I can see it because it's like got 521 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: this like body horror. It's got all this like twt 522 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: sting of body parts, but it's like a really campy 523 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: fun thing. But it's also like got storms constantly rain. 524 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: You've got kind of a castle issues that man. Yeah, 525 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: so it was I had a good time. 526 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 3: I had a good time. 527 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: And I have to say I was telling Samantha I 528 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: rewatched this, uh this time, knowing it was like a 529 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: queer cult movie, and I was like, oh, I see it. 530 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: But there was a line I believe Isabella Rosealini said 531 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: something like when your body feels like it's not yours, 532 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: she says something. 533 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I ney to talk about that 534 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: her specific character being queer, because it is like very 535 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: like sexual, but you don't know who is, like who 536 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: ever is in the room. She fills that void. So 537 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 2: if it is Meryl Streep like that sexuality is still 538 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: very raw and open there, even if it is Bruce Willis. 539 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: Honestly was more sexual tension between her and Mertl straight 540 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 2: to me than her and Bruce Willis, which I think 541 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 2: is another part of that. 542 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 3: Yes. 543 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that she again exues all her whole presence 544 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: is sexuality. That that that immortality, that sin again, that 545 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 2: perils of mortal sin. To want that to be that 546 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: is to be sexual and she is just that sexual being. 547 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 548 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: And for a later date, like larger conversations about queer 549 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: coding of villains and history of that, but like queer 550 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: coding of camp and the history of that. 551 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 3: But I had a good time. I enjoyed it. 552 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: Oh thank you for this journey. And you know what, 553 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 2: I sent you that video about that musical yeah, which 554 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this is really hilarious take and 555 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: it is really insane. We mean, we need to visit this. 556 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 2: And again I think we need to bring Eves on 557 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: for that one, because we've talked about it. She and 558 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: I have talked. 559 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 3: This is not related to death becomes sir, but but it's. 560 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: One of those things. But I think, of course, of 561 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: course it is it is also very queer coded, even 562 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: though it is really troublesome like backwoods bs. And I'm 563 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: talking about seven Brides for seven Brothers for those who know, 564 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: I think you know, but there is that like, yeah, 565 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: they were definitely like. 566 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: Seven or seven brothers, yes, me, Oh no, well, it 567 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: does have something I want to talk about that will 568 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: probably have to be a separate episode, but I've one 569 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: of the things that anways me the most is the 570 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: romanticization of Stockholm syndrome. 571 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 3: I hate that. Oh yeah, oh yeah, hate that. 572 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Real problematic, real problematic. 573 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: You could talk about the realities of it, but I 574 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: hate when you romanticize it. 575 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 3: Yeah it is. But I do think there is a 576 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 3: death that comes from musical. 577 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 2: So it happened in Chicago. Looks like April thirtieth to 578 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: June second of twenty twenty four, which the Broadway version 579 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 2: is happening on October twenty third. 580 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: All right, listeners, if you have been get to go, 581 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: oh let us know us. I also know there's a 582 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: lot of drag shows around. Oh yeah, that comes, sir. 583 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, ru Paul did their whole thing, so I 584 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: need to find out how that went. 585 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 3: Yes, but listeners. 586 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: If you've participated, seem done any of these things, have 587 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: thoughts about this, please let us know es. Samantha said, 588 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: we'll probably do two movies this month, but we love 589 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: horror movies all the time. Are related movies all the time, 590 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: So if you have any suggestions, send them our way. 591 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: You can email us at step Media, moom stuff at 592 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at 593 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: most of the podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at 594 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You. 595 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 3: We're also on YouTube. 596 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: We have a tea public store, and we have a 597 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks 598 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: as always too our super producer Christinia or executive booster. 599 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: My and or contribute Joey. 600 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I'll 601 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: Ever told You aspect of my heart Radio. For more 602 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: podcasts or my heart Radio, you can check out the 603 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or where have you listen 604 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: to favorite shows