1
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 1: I loved Miss Mitchell, my sixth grade teacher, for many reasons,

2
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,920
Speaker 1: but one thing she used to always do for us

3
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,600
Speaker 1: made me feel so much more confident on my projects.

4
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: About a half hour before the bell would ring and

5
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 1: our projects were due, she would say, now, y'all, get

6
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,240
Speaker 1: you a buddy and let that buddy review your work

7
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,319
Speaker 1: and they can make two free changes or corrections. So

8
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 1: if you mispelled a word, or didn't have a common

9
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: in the right place, or you needed to fix that

10
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 1: dangling modifier, now is your time. And then she would

11
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,920
Speaker 1: give you the opportunity to do that with a friend.

12
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 1: And I can hear her right now, she would say, class,

13
00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 1: it's time to find the buddy and get a new

14
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,360
Speaker 1: viewpoint on your project. A different outlook's important. Let your

15
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: friends help you. They have good judgment. This is how

16
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: I feel about tonight's panel. They have great viewpoints, They

17
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: are solid in their understanding of how these cases work,

18
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 1: how to interpret what's happening, and they have outstanding judgment.

19
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,040
Speaker 1: I have asked them to help me with this project

20
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 1: to understand what is going on with the Long Island

21
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 1: serial killer. Now, just to give you all a quick overview,

22
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: the first victim Gilbert, twenty four, was last seen May one,

23
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: twenty ten. She wanted to be an actress. At the

24
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,479
Speaker 1: time of her disappearance, she was working as a sex worker.

25
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 1: Police started to search for her along Ocean Parkway. Shockingly,

26
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: four more bodies were discovered over a three day period

27
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 1: of time. All of the remains were in about a

28
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: half a mile roughly five hundred feet apart. Now experts

29
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: recognize this as possibly a dumping ground for a serial killer.

30
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 1: There was virtually no doubt in my mind that's what

31
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: it was. Police began to link some of the other

32
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 1: victims their profession, the area they were taken from, in

33
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: the area they were disposed in. Another victim, Waterman, twenty

34
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,079
Speaker 1: two years old, was from Maine, but she had been

35
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 1: working as an escort off Craigslist. Three other victims Barns,

36
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 1: twenty five year old from Norwich, Connecticut, another victim twenty

37
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,360
Speaker 1: four from the Bronx, another victim twenty seven from Long Island.

38
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: They were all working as sex workers. April fourth, twenty eleven.

39
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,800
Speaker 1: By now, law enforcement has recovered eight women and one

40
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 1: man who was wearing women's clothing. December thirteenth, law enforcement

41
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,280
Speaker 1: announced Gilbert's remains have been identified. January sixteenth, twenty twenty,

42
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 1: police released the first major clue to the public. Now

43
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you all right now, I thought this

44
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,400
Speaker 1: piece of evidence was going to break this thing wide open.

45
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: It was a leather belt, but it almost looked like

46
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:25,399
Speaker 1: an old piece of clothing, something that a grandfather would

47
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 1: have had, and it had letters on it, and nobody

48
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: knew whether the letters were WH or HM. But I thought,

49
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 1: there's got to be DNA on it. There might be

50
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 1: some blood on it, but surely somebody's gonna recognize that

51
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 1: in a family, it looked like an heirloom. July thirteenth,

52
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, unarrest was finally made, and tonight we

53
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 1: have one of the best panels to come together and

54
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 1: look at this thing from a three sixty one vortex.

55
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 1: Like I've talked about in the past, every different possible

56
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: avenue that I can think of right now is coming

57
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 1: to the table. I'm lucky enough to not just admire

58
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 1: these folks and get to work with these folks, but

59
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:22,279
Speaker 1: they are genuinely my friends and solidly in my Zone seven.

60
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with retired NYPD Sergeant Joseph Jackloone. He

61
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 1: was in the Bronx as the head of their cold

62
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 1: case squad. He was part of the cold case task

63
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: Force in the homicide Unit. He taught at the Homicide

64
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,160
Speaker 1: School for NYPD. He is, without a doubt, somebody that

65
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 1: can take a ton of information and funnel it down

66
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,040
Speaker 1: in the simplest form. He is a professor at the

67
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,320
Speaker 1: John Jay College of Criminal Justice, and he has a

68
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,719
Speaker 1: teacher's heart. You can hear it when he talks and

69
00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 1: explains these cases. Has just kind of, I think, blown

70
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 1: my mind on a couple of levels. But you and

71
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: I know, and we've talked before, that at a rest

72
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: doesn't mean the investigation is over. So can you talk

73
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: a little bit about what law enforcement is doing after

74
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 1: they have this person in custody.

75
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 2: So when you're building a case, whether it's an ordinary

76
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,039
Speaker 2: case or a cold case like this with lots of

77
00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,240
Speaker 2: moving parts and victims, you always have to present the

78
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 2: case as if this is going to trial, because in

79
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,760
Speaker 2: this situation, it will. Even when you have a case

80
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 2: that is ten years old and you don't think you're

81
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,160
Speaker 2: ever going to solve it, you're always preparing for that

82
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,919
Speaker 2: day and you got your eyes and cross your t's

83
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,400
Speaker 2: and you have to make sure you have all your

84
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 2: inculpatory evidence and your exculpatory right things that include and

85
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,120
Speaker 2: exclude suspects, because the defense attorney is going to be

86
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 2: going after certain things and saying it's not my guy,

87
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 2: which is the defense attorney is already doing right. They

88
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 2: got the wrong guy at somebody else. So that's why

89
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 2: it's very important to make sure you the case buttoned up.

90
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,599
Speaker 1: Now we see law enforcement again. They're going to storage rooms,

91
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,280
Speaker 1: they're looking at his vehicles, they're digging in the backyard.

92
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,159
Speaker 1: They've already identified these burner phones and computer searches and

93
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,159
Speaker 1: the guns. As you're kind of wading through some of this,

94
00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,599
Speaker 1: what do you think right now is the most intriguing

95
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 1: piece of evidence to you?

96
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,359
Speaker 2: Well, right now, I want to know what they found

97
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 2: in the storage facility. Right, So they went to the

98
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 2: storage facility and then a few hours later the a

99
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,599
Speaker 2: medical examiner showed up. So to me, that was a

100
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 2: definitely red flag. I mean, you don't call the medical

101
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 2: examiner unless you find something that needs to be examined

102
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 2: by them. So it was a very interesting aspect of things.

103
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 2: And if the anthropologist would have showed up, I probably

104
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,359
Speaker 2: would have fallen off my chair. So yeah, the issue

105
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,320
Speaker 2: that comes down to is, like I've done a number

106
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 2: of cold case digs. When I was working doing this stuff.

107
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 2: We always had the medical examiner or a medical legal

108
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 2: investigator which people refer to as an MLI at the

109
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 2: scene while we start. But you know, in New York

110
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,960
Speaker 2: City there's a lot of different mlis that you can

111
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,159
Speaker 2: do it. In Suffer County, it's a much smaller place

112
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 2: and they might not have one available, so that could

113
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,359
Speaker 2: have been a reason why they called them after the fact.

114
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 2: But still it is a very intriguing We know from

115
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,640
Speaker 2: past cases serial killers could hold trophies back. That kind

116
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 2: of material would be extremely important to this case specifically.

117
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 2: There are a number of other victims that haven't been

118
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 2: attributed to him. That doesn't mean that they will be,

119
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 2: but you know as well as I do, that they

120
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 2: need to make sure that they have the right guy

121
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 2: for a lot of different reasons.

122
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,239
Speaker 1: You and I were texting each other in the instant

123
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 1: message system. I don't even know what it's called, but

124
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 1: we were in live time talking to each other when

125
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 1: the medical examiner showed up, and I'm going to tell

126
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 1: you I about did fall out of my chair because

127
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,440
Speaker 1: to your point, he ain't called but for one thing,

128
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: and that's for some type of body.

129
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 2: Part, exactly right. So that was a really foretelling kind

130
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 2: of issue for me anyway, And I think, you know,

131
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 2: a couple people picked up on it, But as soon

132
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 2: as I saw that on the TV, I tweeted it

133
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 2: out and the thing went crazy on it because everyone

134
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 2: knows pretty much what that means. We have a lot

135
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 2: of we have a lot of faith right now going

136
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,280
Speaker 2: on in this investigation, just from the base of the

137
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 2: quality of the investigation on the digital forensics and the

138
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 2: DNA and everything else. So this was an especially unique

139
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 2: opportunity to see exactly what's transpiring.

140
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:36,880
Speaker 1: Doctor Jonie Johnson, the forensic psychologist, PI author, crime writer.

141
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 1: She's gonna help us maintain this balance that all of

142
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 1: these cases have at least two sides. All right, doctor Joni,

143
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come to you pretty quick out of the gate,

144
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 1: because you got to tell us about this guy. How

145
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:58,400
Speaker 1: do you function as a professional, raise children, maintain a marriage,

146
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,600
Speaker 1: and at the same time be this predatory killer.

147
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,920
Speaker 3: It is pretty astonishing how much some people can compartmentalize

148
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 3: different parts of their lives. And this is clearly if

149
00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 3: this person is the perpetrator, and there seems to be

150
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of evidence suggesting that's true. He truly

151
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 3: was a master at it. I mean, this is somebody,

152
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 3: like you said, he's married, he's got children, he has

153
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 3: a successful business, and yet there seems to be this

154
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 3: secret life that is completely separate from his day to

155
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 3: day operation. You know, I've had several police officers, I'm

156
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,439
Speaker 3: sure you can relate to this, probably Cheryl, who will

157
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 3: talk about being at a homicide scene and then going

158
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 3: home and hugging their you know, small children and just

159
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,959
Speaker 3: having to take off mentally one hat and put another

160
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 3: one on and just slip into a different role. This

161
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 3: is obviously an extreme version of that.

162
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Do you think we're going to

163
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,800
Speaker 1: see the serial killer hat trick? You know, when they

164
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,880
Speaker 1: want to control and they want to dominate, and they

165
00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 1: want to, you know, just have this whole function where

166
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: they're manipulating people and dominating their victims and controlling the situation.

167
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to see aspects of that

168
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 1: as they go through some of the things that he

169
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 1: has been accused of doing already, and some of the

170
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,960
Speaker 1: people that are coming forward telling stories about how he

171
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:17,720
Speaker 1: approached them.

172
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's interesting that so many people are

173
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 3: coming forward. We have to take that just a little

174
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:23,880
Speaker 3: bit with the grain of salt, because we know that

175
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 3: when we know the kind of outcome of what's happened recently,

176
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 3: it's easy for people to kind of go back and

177
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,319
Speaker 3: remember things. But the thing that stands out the most

178
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 3: for me in terms of the evidence so far is

179
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 3: just the amount of sadism and cruelty that seem to

180
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,200
Speaker 3: be in this perpetrator, all the way from the pornography

181
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 3: and some of the searches that he was making to

182
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 3: just taunting the family of his victims. I mean, that

183
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,959
Speaker 3: is so scary because that suggests that this really is

184
00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 3: every person's worst nightmare.

185
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,880
Speaker 1: One thing that stuck out to me is when they're

186
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 1: taking items out of the home. There was one Playboy

187
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 1: magazine and it looks like it's the issue that had

188
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 1: the last pictures of Marilyn Monroe, the nude pictures. If

189
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 1: that's the case, that magazine is from the eighties, and

190
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 1: that's where he would have been a much younger man.

191
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,079
Speaker 1: And again there's some people that think she was murdered,

192
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, perhaps tortured. So if that's something he's reading

193
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: as a young person, and it's something he has kept

194
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,760
Speaker 1: in Christine condition, again, this is something that he does

195
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:35,720
Speaker 1: full time.

196
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,120
Speaker 3: Well, I would be very surprised to learn that he

197
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 3: started killing in his forties. I mean, we all know

198
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 3: that murder seems to be a young person's gang for

199
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 3: the most part, and most serial killers start in their twenties,

200
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 3: you know, early to mid twenties, sometimes even their late teens.

201
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 3: So I am hoping that I'm wrong and the evidence

202
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,959
Speaker 3: will not such port that, but I would certainly put

203
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 3: a dollar on it that this was not his first

204
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,719
Speaker 3: radio in terms of two thousand and seven.

205
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,439
Speaker 1: Y'all know Lisa Rabbikoff, she's been here before, polygrapher, polygraph examiner,

206
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: polygraph expert. She's going to figure out whether or not

207
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 1: you're line to the best of her ability, Lisa rabbit Cough,

208
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: if he was willing to talk, what questions would you

209
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 1: have for him and in what order?

210
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,360
Speaker 4: The first question I'm not going to ask him is why,

211
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 4: because that's not the answer that he's going to be

212
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,720
Speaker 4: forthcoming with right off the bat. It's definitely going to

213
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:42,439
Speaker 4: take a seasoned investigator with an extensive training in interviewing

214
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,319
Speaker 4: as well as interrogation to go ahead and reach the

215
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,080
Speaker 4: rapport with him to acquire that information. I think that

216
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 4: if more and more evidence ties him to additional victims,

217
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 4: that eventually he is going to start singing and he's

218
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,679
Speaker 4: going to start give over some details. But right now,

219
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 4: just taking a look at his booking photo, we know

220
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 4: working in the industry that usually the eyes tell a

221
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 4: story behind a lot of different things. His booking photo,

222
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,480
Speaker 4: if you take a look at his mouth, he kind

223
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 4: of has some sort of a smart and a smile

224
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 4: to it, which definitely is very unsettling given the fact

225
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 4: that his first comment in court when his counsel was

226
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,560
Speaker 4: assigned to him by the Suffolk County eighteen a felony

227
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,840
Speaker 4: panel was is this on the news? So he's more

228
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:37,120
Speaker 4: so looking as I believe in the limelight of what

229
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,080
Speaker 4: is my reputation? What do people think about me? And

230
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,839
Speaker 4: he's going to care more about the public perception of

231
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 4: him as an individual. The questions that I would focus on,

232
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 4: I would probably start discussing his family. I would start

233
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,760
Speaker 4: talking about the relationship with his children. The media has

234
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 4: outlined that he does have his daughter, Victoria, who was

235
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 4: an employee at his firm in the working in Midtown

236
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 4: as graduate from NYIT. She does have a background in

237
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 4: online and technical I guess photoshop illustrator kind of doing

238
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 4: visual effects, which could play into her role at the firm.

239
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 4: But he does have his son, as per the media reports,

240
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 4: with special needs, and there isn't much information that's coming

241
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 4: out regarding him, so I would definitely want to discuss

242
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,960
Speaker 4: and play into his fatherly role and get him comfortable

243
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 4: talking about the dynamics. I would also not start discussing

244
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 4: with him his first marriage, because obviously there is a divorce.

245
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,200
Speaker 4: I don't want to go ahead and possibly draw bad

246
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 4: blood and get him to shut down and start being

247
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 4: accusatory as to maybe infidelity or reasons that he could

248
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,000
Speaker 4: have been at fault for that termination of marriage. But

249
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,479
Speaker 4: I would definitely go about discussing his family, his history upbringing,

250
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 4: but also not going into questioning whether or not he

251
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 4: was ever a victim of any sexual or physical abuse

252
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 4: from family members or anyone in his life, because again,

253
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 4: rapport is the biggest thing. When we need to go

254
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 4: ahead and have a suspect discuss anything with us.

255
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 1: That's an excellent point, and I think, look at his

256
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 1: double life starting with the light that he would not

257
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: be in any way hesitant to talk about is brilliant.

258
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think from my perspective, Look, so I was

259
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 2: part of a detective squad, and of course the cool

260
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,800
Speaker 2: cause squad, I might have taken an approach where having

261
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 2: a female detective do my interview for me and see

262
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 2: how that would go in regards to if he wants

263
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 2: to try to manipulate her or dominate her and that

264
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 2: kind of thing, or really kind of get under his

265
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 2: skin that way too. So I think that might be

266
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 2: a tactic that I would have used, and we don't

267
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 2: know if if they use that.

268
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that all day. We have a special, special,

269
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 1: special guest. We met, we became buddies. She's somebody that

270
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,440
Speaker 1: I rely on to kind of keep me balanced in

271
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 1: what I say, because again, sometimes in my world, I

272
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 1: can just see a perpetrator and that's sometimes how I

273
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 1: talk about them, that they're guilty before the trial starts.

274
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 1: But Carrie Rawson is the daughter of the BTK killer.

275
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 1: I think she's one of the bravest people that I know,

276
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 1: because again I'm somewhat guarded when it comes to private information.

277
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people that shares intimate details

278
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 1: of things. And it always amazes me when somebody so

279
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 1: willingly will just come out and say, this was the

280
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 1: darkest moment of my life and I'm going to tell

281
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 1: you all about it, and she opens herself up I

282
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 1: think in just a tremendous caring way, because she's actually

283
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 1: given us information. I think it's a tremendous help.

284
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 5: I also would interject to use the tactic not only

285
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 5: of a female, but like you've got to come in

286
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 5: from a level of respect, like like you all know

287
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 5: what I mean, Like you have to wall off that

288
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 5: horror that's going on in your insides. Why you're like

289
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 5: you have to respect them and meet them face to face,

290
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 5: and you almost have to seem almost well by like

291
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,679
Speaker 5: what they've done and like you're like, wow, can you

292
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 5: tell me more about that? Like why are they wrapped

293
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 5: in burlap? And you know how you know you don't

294
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 5: make me go to count right away, but like you

295
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 5: show like genuine interests and you can't fake it. But

296
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 5: these guys can see like right through to your souls,

297
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 5: So you have to be like walled off, prepared, and you.

298
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 6: If you don't know your stuff, they're.

299
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 5: Gonna just call you out and they're gonna be like, Nope,

300
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 5: I'm talking to somebody else.

301
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:36,159
Speaker 6: I'm not talking to you.

302
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,560
Speaker 1: And Carrie, that's a great point we also have with us.

303
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 1: Mike Morford, we call him more. He's a podcast extraordinary,

304
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 1: that podcast Criminology. Check it out. It's unbelievable. And tonight

305
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 1: he's bringing all of his brilliance right here for us.

306
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about how important

307
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,880
Speaker 1: podcasters have been on this case, the media in general,

308
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 1: but podcasters specifically.

309
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 7: Well, I think it's important when you want to get

310
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 7: the word out about, you know, a case, if you're

311
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 7: an investigator that's wanting to get this out to more people,

312
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,439
Speaker 7: so more people talk about it, shared on social media,

313
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 7: provide clues, come forward with tips. You know, a podcast

314
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 7: is you know, a tremendous way to do that. You know,

315
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 7: you can advertise on TV, you can put it on

316
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 7: all the news shows you want. But you know, if

317
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 7: you're not tapping into something like podcast that millions of

318
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 7: people listen to, you're missing out on a good option

319
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 7: for getting more attention for those cases.

320
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: And I tell people all the time. Everybody has a gift.

321
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: Somebody's vocation or advocation could assist in some way that

322
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: you don't even know as possible. And some of the

323
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: graphics that I've seen, some of the maps, have blown

324
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 1: my mind that Seville, for lack of a better term,

325
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: have put together on this case.

326
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's no doubt that when you get a collective

327
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 7: of people with different skills, different backgrounds that are able

328
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 7: to help move case forward, it's a good thing and

329
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 7: it lends itself to possibly being solved easier because you're

330
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 7: getting that much more attention for it.

331
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: Now, Carrie, I want to go back to you for

332
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: a second, and I know this is not easy. I

333
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: know that you don't take any joy from this. This

334
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: is not something you look forward to doing, so right

335
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 1: off the bat, I want to tell you I appreciate

336
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: you being here, and I do think you're one of

337
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: the bravest people that I know, because you are so

338
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: willing to share a part of your life that was

339
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: just horrific, but for the purposes of what we have

340
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: understood happened on Long Island. Talk to us about that

341
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 1: knock at the door.

342
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 5: So it's my hope for a Rexist family that. You know,

343
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 5: we were told he was arrested Thursday night. So it

344
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 5: is my hope that they went and quietly notified the

345
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 5: family and gave them Thursday night and then had them

346
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 5: hunkered down away from media by Friday morning. You know,

347
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 5: I'm hearing that maybe they weren't quite ready for media

348
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 5: to break as early as as it did, so there

349
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 5: was a bit of a management scramble, I think on

350
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 5: Friday for Long Island. For in my case, they had

351
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 5: been looking for my dad for thirty one years for

352
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 5: murders from seventy four to ninety one. Then he was

353
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 5: playing games for about a year when he came back

354
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 5: so FBI KBI, which everybody was looking for him, and had

355
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 5: like this massive DNA swabamon and a bunch of insanity.

356
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 5: So they narrowed it down to my dad about a

357
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 5: week before they arrested him due to a floppy disk.

358
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 5: Then they got my DNA and so that came back

359
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 5: that Thursday night that it was match to my dad,

360
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 5: and so the next morning then they had concocted a

361
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 5: plan and they arrested him on his way home for

362
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 5: lunch and then around the block. Then they went and

363
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 5: knocked on my mom's door at the very same time.

364
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 6: Then an FBI agent notified.

365
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 5: Me in Michigan and went to went to Connecticut to

366
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 5: notify my brother at the Navy. So they they planned

367
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 5: it with the FBI so that nobody could talk to

368
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 5: each other. And so when I was I didn't even

369
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 5: want to let the FBI agent into my house and

370
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 5: then he literally just dropped the bomb on me that

371
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 5: Dad was BTK and they didn't let us talk to

372
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 5: each other. I didn't even get ahold of family till

373
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 5: like later that evening.

374
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 6: They didn't. They they needed to.

375
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 5: Clear us before we could start talking to each other.

376
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 5: So they like they were real careful about that. But

377
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 5: like when you're talking about potentially what long Island's family

378
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 5: is going through, I mean you're just talking about utter

379
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 5: freaking hell and shock, like it just lands on you

380
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 5: like a bomb. And call it the before and the after, right,

381
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 5: And so we have before Dad was arrested and after,

382
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 5: and I still do that. I just have to say

383
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 5: before or after, and everybody knows what I mean.

384
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: Sergeant, I want to go back to you for a second,

385
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: and I want to ask you, when you're working a

386
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: task force like this, how difficult, is it to get

387
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: everybody to stay on the same page and move as

388
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: one systematic unit.

389
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the million dollar question, right, And this is

390
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 2: just not you know, one department, right. So you had

391
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: the state Police, you had the FBI, you have Suffolk County,

392
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: you have Nassau County. You have probably the Park's rangers

393
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 2: on this too, because that's I believe that's where the

394
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: who's really in control of that landown there. So you

395
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: have so many different agencies, so many different egos, so

396
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: many different things going on. I think it's just a

397
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 2: testament to the Police Commission in Suffer County, Rodney Harrison,

398
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 2: for putting this team together, inviting the right people, and

399
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: being able to control all of that fo of information

400
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 2: and making sure that nothing slipped through the cracks. As

401
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: weeks and months and years go by, We're going to

402
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 2: hear a lot more as this case goes closer to trial,

403
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: and we will hear about all those investigative steps and

404
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: different things, because remember, there are so many missteps that

405
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 2: happened prior to this, over the ten or eleven year

406
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 2: period before it. It's really I hate to use the

407
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: word biracle, but it's like pulling the rabbit out of

408
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: a hat when you know, if you know the case

409
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: very well, this is like, it's really an amazement that

410
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 2: they pulled this off.

411
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: I agree. And how Davin wide and twisted? Do you

412
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: think this thing's fixing again?

413
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's going to get more interesting. Right,

414
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: So we have the victor Maureen Brainerd Barnes, who was

415
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 2: the last part of the GILG four. I believe they

416
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: were what they said in the press conference, they we're

417
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: waiting for forensic tests to come back on that because

418
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: the DNA was kind of messed up from being out

419
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 2: in the elements in that area. So I think they're

420
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: waiting on some of the new technolo Jesus se if

421
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 2: they can put her with him too. I mean, and listen,

422
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: I've said this long ago. You can look back in

423
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: the annals of my interviews and I said it was

424
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: me doing this. I would I would have focused in

425
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: on the GILG four because we can all agree that

426
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: they were all killed by the same person. The other

427
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: the other seven you know, maybe right, but there's going

428
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: to be cases dating back as far as nineteen ninety six.

429
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: So you know, as well as I do, a lot

430
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: of the forensics wasn't even you know, cops weren't even

431
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 2: aware of it back then, So they're going to have

432
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 2: some difficulty putting those cases together, unless, of course, he confesses.

433
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 2: But New York State doesn't. You know, they have the

434
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: death penalty, but they'll never use it and they'll never

435
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: hold that against them. But I think they either would

436
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: be able to hold that against them to see if

437
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: you can come forward or maybe go go federal with this.

438
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: I mean, they could still end up going federal on it,

439
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: So it's going to be interesting to see what happens

440
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 2: with that.

441
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: Doctor Jony. Sometimes I will have a parallel investigation almost

442
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: things like your job kind of does the same thing.

443
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, you're trying to profile this guy,

444
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: but on the other hand, you may be putting together

445
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: a care plan for the perpetrator's family, so it's not

446
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: just the victim's side of this case, but the other

447
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: family as well.

448
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 3: That's such a good point, And I know Carrie can

449
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: speak to this a lot more eloquently and personally than

450
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 3: I can, but I definitely that it's just so, so truly,

451
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 3: and I'm glad that you brought that up, because you know,

452
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 3: these are victims, and I'm not necessarily saying there are

453
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 3: the same victims as the victims' families, but they will

454
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 3: also be grieving the loss of who they thought this

455
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: person was if't is in fact the perpetrator, And so

456
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 3: I think it is important. I've seen really horrendous things posted,

457
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 3: not on this case per se, but on other you know,

458
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 3: on websites and social media about family members. There's always

459
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 3: this I think, belief or this assumption that they somehow

460
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: knew and they're protecting this person, or they should have

461
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: known or whatever. This need to assign blame, I think

462
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: to the whole family, this kind of spillover effect. And

463
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 3: you know, obviously there have been cases where there have

464
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: been families who participated, but I think that's definitely the

465
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 3: exception rather than the rule. And often the families are

466
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: just blindsided by this and they're just scrambling around trying

467
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 3: to figure out what's going on. At the same time,

468
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 3: the media is descending on them, and you know, people

469
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 3: are sending them hate mail or whatever. So I think

470
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: it is important to realize that this family, as Scary

471
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: said earlier, does need some protection and some empathy.

472
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: Lisa, you're their own long out what is the pulse

473
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: like of that community.

474
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: I actually live door to door without traffic, twenty three

475
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 4: minutes from the crime scene. And this case has not

476
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: only kept our community and my community, I mean both

477
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 4: NASA and counties which make up half of Long Island

478
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 4: on edge constantly and always. But now that we know

479
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: where this individual has been residing this whole time, it's

480
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 4: almost like a game of operation where the game starts

481
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 4: shaking and the pieces get moving and next thing you know,

482
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 4: everything pops. And that's kind of where childhood anxiety comes

483
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 4: from sometimes. But it's just everyone is still on pins

484
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 4: and needles because right now we have an abundance of

485
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 4: victims that we know of. However, we're also taking into

486
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 4: account the fact of the amount of beaches that take

487
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 4: up Long Island. How many other victims are there of

488
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: him that have not been accounted for because it's coming

489
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 4: out that he used to be an employee of the

490
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 4: New York State Parks Association or the New York State

491
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: Police Parks, things like that. But as a beach worker

492
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 4: in the seventies and eighties, so he's had access to

493
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 4: vehicles beach, he knows the terrain, he's had properties there

494
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 4: pretty much. He's residing in the childhood family home, which

495
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 4: is from his grandparents actually, so he definitely has roots,

496
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 4: he knows the area, and just the overall morale right

497
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 4: now is just still incredible fear for locally, for those

498
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 4: that do live in Massapequa Park, it's, oh my god,

499
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 4: he lived in our neighborhood. The other side of it

500
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 4: is I knew the guy was a weirdo and a creep,

501
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 4: which is why we wouldn't go trigger treating at his house.

502
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 4: The other concern now is everyone finding out that it's

503
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: him and taking a look at his property. He's an architect,

504
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 4: why is his house being held up by a two

505
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 4: by four on the front porch. But as the information

506
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 4: is coming out and on things that are being publicly

507
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 4: presented as to money being found downstairs and access to

508
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 4: public records, neighbors are finding out that his house is

509
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 4: in shambles because he's got tax arrears on income tax

510
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 4: on both the federal and the state levels, so he

511
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 4: was harboring money. So there's concerns about just the criminal

512
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 4: activity that not only encompasses the neighborhood itself, but just

513
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: the Long Island region in general, and what we don't

514
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 4: know that hasn't been developed already.

515
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 1: All right, more, I gotta just tell you when I

516
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: hear they swabbed leftover pizza Cruss and linked him to

517
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: a hare found on a burlap sack with the remains

518
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: of a victim, that sounds so unbelievable. That seems like

519
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: that's just an episode of a TV show. Tell me,

520
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: how do you balance it so that you are respectful

521
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: to law enforcement, the pending case and both sides, both families.

522
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 7: Well, you know, it is sort of a balancing and

523
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 7: I think Carrie and Doctor Joni touched on it a

524
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 7: little bit. That the victims are in this case obviously

525
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 7: the ones that lost their lives or families or ones

526
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 7: set of victims, but you know, you have the survivors

527
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 7: of the of the people that do these crimes, and

528
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 7: their lives are forever uprooted, so you have to be

529
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 7: respectful to them. I've seen post online of people that

530
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 7: are saying, oh, her hairs were found on a belt,

531
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 7: her hair was found on one of the victims. Could

532
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 7: she have been involved? You know, with the most likely

533
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 7: scenario being that you know, his wife's hair was on there.

534
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 7: Because these victims were either in his home or in

535
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 7: his car and it's transferred DNA. So people should tread

536
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 7: lightly when it comes to that end of it. But

537
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 7: as far as the police investigation, you know, I've worked

538
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 7: on you know cases before, you know, the Zodiac case,

539
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 7: the Golden State killer case, where I've talked to investigators

540
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 7: behind the scenes that will you share things and say, look,

541
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 7: we need to get this out there. We want to

542
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 7: help spread the word about this, and they'll give you insights,

543
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 7: but they'll say, listen, you can't disclose this, you can't

544
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 7: disclose that. And sometimes there's some really good nuggets that

545
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 7: you think are interesting, but you know, to protect the

546
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 7: case and not jeopardize the case or your relationship with

547
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 7: these people that are intrusting you, you don't share it.

548
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 7: You don't put it out there. So I think it

549
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 7: is a balancing act for podcasters or any other media, TV, whatever,

550
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 7: to tell a story, but be respectful to everybody involved,

551
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 7: from the police, to the victims, to the survivors.

552
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: Carrie, as you now have become an advocate when you

553
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: talk to other families and you reach out specifically when

554
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 1: you reach out to children of perpetrators, how do you

555
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: do that? Like how do you maintain your sanity when

556
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: this keeps coming up and it kind of you know,

557
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: knocks the lid off your own PTSD and all these

558
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: memories come back. But yet you have chosen to assist

559
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: and to help and to show care and concern for

560
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: these other children.

561
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 5: There's a lot of back end stuff that happens with

562
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 5: a life like mine. You're you're not like I'm an

563
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 5: I'm a victim AVOCA and a trauma advocate and a spokesperson.

564
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 6: I'm over here living my own trauma.

565
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 5: I'm back in trauma therapy with a CCTP right now.

566
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 6: That's just fantastic.

567
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 5: So a lot of a lot of the day to

568
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 5: day stuff that I'm doing, You're you're, the public doesn't see.

569
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 6: I'm doing a lot of like backdoor media.

570
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 5: Work, moving pieces around, like I'm kind of like a

571
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 5: little communication hub with several several journalists, investigative journalists, like hey,

572
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 5: this is going on, like this domestic violence has gone

573
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 5: really bad, and this woman's been gunned down in our house,

574
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 5: and you know, it needs coverage and and so all

575
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 5: I like, I take the Facebook t and my advocate

576
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 5: network and my missing person's networks, and then you know,

577
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 5: I move pieces around where they need to go, and

578
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 5: so that's part of what I do.

579
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 6: And then when you're.

580
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 5: Talking about like working with people like me, the reality

581
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 5: is that, like some of us were so high profile

582
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 5: and some of us have been living this forever that

583
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 5: we don't necessarily really lean on each other.

584
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 6: Some of us don't even really like.

585
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 5: Work that well together because I don't know, like when

586
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 5: you're all a bunch of like abuse survivors and trauma survivors,

587
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 5: even as great as some of us are like look

588
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 5: like we're doing, we don't always necessarily like mesh together

589
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 5: very well. So, like I am here and I am

590
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 5: open to helping like people like on the high profile

591
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 5: in on the other end, And if I was working

592
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 5: with people like I privately wall those with wall that

593
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 5: relationship off and protect it. So the reality I'm facing

594
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 5: right now is that I'm one person and I'm overloaded

595
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 5: right now with like cold cases and emails, and I'm

596
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 5: trying to work and network and build, like you know,

597
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 5: your zone seven, I need to build my zone seven

598
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 5: to like go tackle the world.

599
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: Am in absolutely and I'll tell everybody something else. She

600
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: does when she's your friend, like she is mine, she

601
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: will check you.

602
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 8: So in my.

603
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: World I don't always say possibly or accused or allegedly.

604
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: I sometimes just say he freaking did it. But she

605
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: will sometimes gently and kindly and sweetly say, hey, Mac,

606
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: you know he does have children and he isn't time

607
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: to do process, so you might want to throw in

608
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: he's been accused of something or it's alleged that he's

609
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: done something. So every time I get one of those

610
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: messages from you, it kind of makes me laugh. But

611
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: at the same time, you're right, and we need to

612
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: be fair on both sides, and we need to come

613
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: with I think love and care and concern for everybody involved.

614
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: Because your statement when you said your life is divided

615
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: into two sides before and after, that's gut wrench at honey.

616
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's true. But I'm just saying as

617
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: a mama here in that it breaks my heart.

618
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I mean the truth is like, it's been

619
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 5: eighteen years and I was born. Before I was born,

620
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 5: I was a crime victim because my mom was pregnant

621
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 5: with me with the when my dad killed Nancy fox

622
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 5: So on his seventh and so I was a crime

623
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 5: victim before I was born.

624
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 6: And I mean, you know if you're I say, like,

625
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 6: we can't.

626
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 5: My friend Laura Kelly, she was a journalist for the

627
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 5: Witchita Eagle and now she does like heavy victims work.

628
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 5: She says, like, we can't heal with things that we

629
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 5: don't talk about, you know, and we can't deal with

630
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 5: things we don't know, right, and so we don't know

631
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 5: these things, and how do we deal in heal with

632
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 5: them and we don't talk about them if we buckle

633
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 5: down and do the Midwest. Oh, we all look fantastic

634
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 5: on the outside with our manicured lawns, and we go

635
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 5: to church in our Sunday finest and we serve the

636
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 5: community and we're a Scout leader. All these things my

637
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 5: father did you know? Then we hide really well, and

638
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 5: we're hiding like our sexual, stadistic, psychopathic, you know, behaviors

639
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 5: that are murdering people. So there's a lot of similarities

640
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 5: there with my data and Rex, and that really just

641
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 5: blew me away. I was cousin something heavy. When I

642
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 5: was reading the Bell documents Friday, I literally cussed on Twitter.

643
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 5: Some high did and make news, but it was not

644
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 5: pretty Friday and Saturday, when I was processing what this

645
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 5: man has potentially done heal and deal and do the

646
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 5: kind of work I do to help people.

647
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 6: You have to face facts.

648
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 5: And I'm literally, like right now facing new facts you know,

649
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 5: every day, really like in my own life right now

650
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: with my own father. So we're just healing and dealing

651
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 5: over here.

652
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: Healing and delon. Lisa, I want to ask you something

653
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: with your expertise, I think there's going to be a

654
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: lot of people coming forward because this guy, again was

655
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: a serial killer full time. It's what he did every day.

656
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: And I think he for fun at the grocery store

657
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: or the bank, or just walking down the street or

658
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: catching a subway, would mess with people, would say things

659
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: inappropriate to get a rise of them, to get a

660
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: reaction out of them, and I think he was just

661
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: playing like cat and mouse. But I do think we're

662
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: going to have a ton of people come forward with

663
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: real events. But I think there also maybe some people

664
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: that might use this to get some attention. So with

665
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: your expertise and statement analysis and polygraph how do you

666
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: weed out the true reports and the fault reports.

667
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 4: So right now, from what I've observed your social media

668
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 4: platforms as well as the local news here, that women

669
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 4: are coming forward that he has been on gates with

670
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 4: them previously they were sex workers, and he had been

671
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 4: going on dates to various restaurants throughout Long Island, the

672
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: restaurants that I've heard of through these narratives, which of

673
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 4: course I don't have any confirmation as these narratives, but

674
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: the details that are being provided by these sex workers

675
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 4: are so specific and accountable four that there really is

676
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 4: a hard time to not believe the narrative that we're

677
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 4: being told. And he's been hanging out on the north

678
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 4: shore of Long Island, one specific location in Port Jefferson,

679
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 4: and I would approximate Port Jefferson from Massive People Park

680
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: is probably going to be about a forty forty five

681
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 4: minute drive mostly highway. When it comes down to all

682
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 4: of these people coming forward and whether they're neighbors, whether

683
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 4: they're people that have kicked maybe some of the employees

684
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 4: that kicked him out of Home Whole Foods, because there

685
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 4: apparently there was a situation where he was stealing fruit.

686
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 4: Issues pertaining to neighbors and fighting with them. There was

687
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 4: even a woman that had come forward he had accosted

688
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 4: her in the park even two weeks ago. There is

689
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: public knowledge that his wife, who did file for divorce

690
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: from him today, which we could definitely talk about. Also,

691
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 4: she was expected to be out of town starting tomorrow

692
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 4: in San Diego, and on the basis of the forensic

693
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 4: evidence that's already been conducted, a lot of the crimes

694
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: that he had already been in the process of being

695
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 4: held accountable for was being done when she was traveling.

696
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 4: So there is assumption and or possible thought that the FBI,

697
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 4: as well as the Suffolk County Task Force in conjunction

698
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 4: with the state Troopers and the Parks Police, decided to

699
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 4: apprehend him now because there's a possibility of while he

700
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 4: was under surveillance, these agents and officers saw his negative

701
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 4: behavior and possibly thought that he has the possibility of

702
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 4: acting out again when his wife would be traveling starting tomorrow.

703
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 4: But we can't polygraph everyone the time, and the resources

704
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 4: are just not there right now to go ahead and

705
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 4: do so, So it does come down to again effective interviewing.

706
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 4: I would hope that law enforcement will go ahead and

707
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 4: follow up with these leads because even though they are

708
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 4: not deceased, they still are victims of this perpetrator because

709
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 4: obviously there was intent. I don't know how far the

710
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 4: intentions would be going but they are still going to

711
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 4: be a victim because they still had interaction with him.

712
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: And more if I want to go back to you,

713
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: because what Lisa is saying, I think is spot on.

714
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: And he was purchasing more minutes for these burner phones,

715
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: so clearly it looks like he's gearing up to do

716
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: something nefarious. And I also think podcasts can play a

717
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: role here again with people maybe coming forward to a

718
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: podcaster to say, Hey, this is a safe place for

719
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: me to talk about this. You helped me get to

720
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: law enforcement, or maybe help me articulate what occurred with me,

721
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: or some information that I.

722
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 7: Know no doubt about it. Some people you don't want

723
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 7: to talk about something, but they don't necessarily want to

724
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 7: share their face on the news. Podcast could be a

725
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 7: good outlet for that. You know, it's a good way

726
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 7: to talk about a case.

727
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: You know.

728
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 7: I covered the Golden State killer case extensively, and I

729
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 7: talked to several victims of Joseph DeAngelo's who recounted the

730
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 7: horrible things that had happened to them, But at the

731
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 7: same time, they didn't want their faces or their names used.

732
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 7: So it is an outlet to sort of dive into

733
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 7: some of that stuff without you know, exposing yourself to

734
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 7: unwanted attention that you might receive or people knowing who

735
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 7: you were if you want to keep yourself private. But

736
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 7: you know you mentioned talking on a podcast. I think

737
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 7: I posted a reply to you on Facebook. I know

738
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 7: someone through the podcast industry here that has a family

739
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 7: member who was friends with this guy the suspects, and

740
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 7: he was blown away. His mind was just blown away

741
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 7: when he found out this guy was arrested. He had

742
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 7: no clue this guy was like this. And I actually

743
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 7: invited him on the podcast because obviously I and a

744
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 7: million other people want learning the details we can about

745
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 7: this this individual. And you know, he told me a

746
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 7: couple of things, but in the end he didn't feel

747
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 7: comfortable coming on the podcast to talk about it, so

748
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 7: you know, I sort of have to respect that and

749
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 7: not bring him on.

750
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: But you still got intel even if he gave you

751
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: just a couple of statements. You know something about this

752
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: person that perhaps law enforcement doesn't. And again I tell

753
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: people all the time, the media is one of the

754
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: best tools that law enforcement has if they know how

755
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: to utilize it. There are people that will not talk

756
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: to police, that will talk to a reporter or a podcaster,

757
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: And I think it is critical that we even let

758
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: the people that are listening to this, you know, session,

759
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: this episode, whatever you want to call it, You are

760
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: free to contact anybody on this panel. Anybody on this panel,

761
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: I guarantee you will help you, whether it's this case

762
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: or another case. They will help you navigate where you

763
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: need to get your information to and they can keep

764
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: you anonymous and help you period.

765
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 4: Joe mentioned earlier about sometimes trinkets and or trophies, and

766
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 4: you and I had discussed offline a conversation regarding this,

767
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 4: and we keep talking about information and the type of

768
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 4: person that this individual is pertaining to the profile that

769
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 4: not only law enforcement has on him, but the profile

770
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 4: that the media is making, plus the profile of individuals

771
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 4: observing this case from the outside. So there's a lot

772
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 4: of characteristics and a lot of traits that sometimes are overlapping.

773
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 4: But again, public perception and opinion do play into it

774
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 4: sometimes when an individual develops their own thought process. And

775
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 4: one thing that's sticking with me is the concept of

776
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 4: trophies and on the basis of the information being seen

777
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 4: and what I'm personally taking in, not only as an expert,

778
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 4: but a resident of the area of where this has

779
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 4: all been occurring. And what I've been following for the

780
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 4: past couple of years is that I don't think and

781
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 4: again this is my opinion that law enforcement, with all

782
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 4: of these diggings, with going through the house, while looking

783
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 4: at his properties in Las Vegas, locking at his properties

784
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 4: in Massachusetts and South Carolina, because again this is now

785
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 4: becoming a multi jurisdictional investigation, that I don't think that

786
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 4: there's going to be trophies. I think what he's taking

787
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 4: away from it would be referred to as metaphysical trophies,

788
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 4: and this ties into the cell phone forensics that we're done.

789
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 4: And what I mean by metaphysical is that he's an

790
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:04,959
Speaker 4: intelligent individual. He's smart, conversational, personable. From what other people

791
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: have said throughout the interviews that do know him personally,

792
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 4: I mean apparently his property manager in Brooklyn that knew

793
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 4: him for thirty years referred to him as a gem

794
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 4: to deal with and highly knowledgeable and he was a

795
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 4: big goofy guy, but a little bit on the nerdy side.

796
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 4: So public perception is there, obviously on the basis of

797
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 4: interpersonal relationships. But what I think he's taking away from

798
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 4: the victims that are associated with him are those burner

799
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 4: phone calls to family members in the back end, I

800
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 4: think that he's not collecting or had collected trinkets and

801
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 4: or trophies. I think what he has taken away is

802
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 4: the fact that he made those phone calls to family members,

803
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 4: and that's his trophy. He took the power away from

804
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 4: the family. So the family members now can identify his

805
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 4: voice as the individual that took the life life of

806
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 4: their family member. And so I think there's a very

807
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 4: big psychology component to that. Obviously higher order thinking showing

808
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 4: the fact that he is as knowledgeable and as smart

809
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 4: as he is, and that, to me is probably the

810
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 4: scariest part of what could be this investigation, the fact

811
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 4: that he not only allegedly, and I'm going to use

812
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 4: the word allegedly, despite all the evidence against him, committed

813
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 4: these crimes, but then he went ahead and continued to

814
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 4: revictimize the families on a psychological warfare component.

815
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: I have never heard the term metaphysical trophy. Now you

816
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: have got me fixed on that, and I understand completely

817
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: because when the sister of one of the victims says

818
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: he knew my name, he called me and stated my name,

819
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,240
Speaker 1: and he's just psychologically messing with her.

820
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just continuing in his mind to further be

821
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 4: the offender that he is, but not only offend against

822
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 4: the victim, but further victimize the family with this psychological

823
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 4: torture and social emotional abuse by knowing the research that

824
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 4: he had already done on them, which is discoverable obviously

825
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 4: through the forensics that was done on the computers as

826
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 4: well as cell phones where his Google search history is

827
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 4: looking into the victims as well as their family members

828
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 4: also some of the other kids that are in the family.

829
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 4: So he really has taken it to such a degree

830
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 4: and so far off the spectrum per se where he's

831
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 4: looking to go ahead and continuously intentionally harm the family,

832
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 4: which is why I think my again my opinion, but

833
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 4: I believe that that's part of the that's his trophy,

834
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 4: that's what he's further taking away.

835
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 7: And we've seen this in cases before. DiAngelo did the

836
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 7: same thing. He'd call his victims up twenty years after

837
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 7: he attack them, just to terrorize them again. So there's

838
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 7: definitely a history of killers doing this, reliving that moment,

839
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 7: getting a thrill again and terrorizing victims family members of victims.

840
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: It's awful more if you're absolutely right, and Carrie, I

841
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: want to ask you a question. I know that you

842
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: and I have talked privately, and there are sometimes people,

843
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: just general public people that will right your father, and

844
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: if he responds to them, they want to contact you

845
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: and tell you about it, And so to me, that's

846
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: another twisted way that he's trying to get to you.

847
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I had to legally cut him off a

848
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 5: couple of years ago. Well, so my father's a sexual

849
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 5: statistic psychopath and a pathological liar and a narcissist, and

850
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 5: I have a feeling Rex based on what we know

851
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 5: is right up in that same categories as my father,

852
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 5: very very similar critter creature here. You know, I tried

853
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 5: really hard for years only through letters, and there were

854
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 5: gaps where I couldn't handle it. And I tried. But

855
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 5: then when I started becoming public and speaking up in

856
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 5: the news and was writing a book and stuff, my

857
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 5: dad wanted a piece of that pie, and that narcissism

858
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 5: came back in and I just I would we could

859
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 5: get through for just a tiny bit, like he said,

860
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 5: I understood, you know, I had caused my family to

861
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 5: be victims, and then all of a sudden, it was

862
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 5: like he he wanted control again. My father is a

863
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 5: very controlling individual, down to like a pencil or what.

864
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 5: He had to go to the bathroom from twelve to

865
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 5: twelve fifteen when he came home for lunch at noon

866
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 5: every day. So heaven help you if you need to

867
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 5: go to the bathroom, because we had one bathroom and

868
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 5: three bedroom ranch like live with BTK and like fourteen

869
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:50,479
Speaker 5: square hundred feet, Like.

870
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's fun.

871
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 5: So like the reality is with somebody that controlling and narcissistic,

872
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 5: even when they're locked away in solitary, there's are going

873
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 5: to be running their show. And so he called it

874
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 5: his cave and his El Canara, his el Cavera. And

875
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 5: then he has he's the Kansas Pisces. So he's even

876
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 5: taken on new identities now that he's in prison. And

877
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 5: then he has like major league fans and minor league fans,

878
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 5: and then he has people that take advantage of him

879
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 5: that sell.

880
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 6: Like his letters and his art. He calls them vipers.

881
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 5: And then I call like people that contact him and

882
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 5: then contact me. I call them his minions and his

883
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 5: flying monkeys. I'm managing all of this insanity on a

884
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 5: daily basis. These people hit my social media and they

885
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 5: email me. The worst ones text me like they wait until,

886
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 5: say they listen to this podcast or if I was

887
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 5: live on YouTube or something.

888
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 6: They'll wait till I'm all nice.

889
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 5: And rattled and profiling with like, you know, like brilliant people,

890
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 5: and then they'll wait until I log off, and then

891
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 5: they'll text me something horrible just to rattle.

892
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 6: Me before I go to bed.

893
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 5: The question right now is are these people doing this

894
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 5: on behalf of my father's and like, is my father

895
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 5: getting off on it or is it people just bad

896
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 5: people kind of taking advantage of my dad or enjoying like.

897
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 6: Getting off on like his daughter. That's a big question.

898
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 5: The reality, unfortunately, is that it never ends. I basically

899
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 5: call myself and the other high profile families like a living, walking, breathing,

900
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 5: never ending crime story.

901
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, it never ends, y'all.

902
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: Here's what I want to do before we sign off.

903
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: Any of you have a last thing you want to say,

904
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: a SoundBite or a point or a quote, anything you

905
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: want to say that we haven't touched on. Now's your chance,

906
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: and I'll just start with Lisa.

907
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 6: If you have something.

908
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 8: The last thing that I would want to convey to

909
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 8: the listeners of this episode is that there out there

910
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 8: again in the media.

911
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 4: We need as experts, in addition to viewers of this case,

912
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 4: we need to focus on the facts just because there

913
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 4: are theories, just because there are so many different moving

914
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 4: parts right now. We need to not only focus on

915
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 4: the three victims that he's allegedly being accountable for, but

916
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 4: we also cannot forget that there are other victims. We

917
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 4: have to stick to the facts of what's being there.

918
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 4: And there is no problem with going down the rabbit

919
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 4: hole and being vested and interested in a case from

920
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 4: a learning perspective, But the facts are the facts. DNA's

921
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,439
Speaker 4: DNA science is science. There are more than qualified individuals

922
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 4: that are handling this case on the federal, state, and

923
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 4: local levels, and we need to trust them to do

924
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 4: their job efficiently and accurately, because the last thing anyone

925
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 4: needs is an investigation like this being rushed and possibly

926
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 4: someone getting away and not being held accountable for their actions.

927
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would just say to try and be patient.

928
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 7: I know it's human nature to want to know everything

929
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 7: all at once and have all the answers, and the

930
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 7: truth is it's going to take time to sort through this,

931
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 7: you know, I hope if that if there are more

932
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 7: victims that can be attributed to this guy, I hope

933
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 7: that can be determined because at the end of the day,

934
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 7: there's a lot of victims families waiting to hear what's

935
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 7: going to happen. And I think, you know, especially if

936
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 7: there's people talking online on social media, on you know,

937
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 7: the citizen detectives out there that are sort of working

938
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 7: this case and looking at other cases talking about it online. Remember,

939
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 7: there's there's people lives that stake here. You know, a

940
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 7: lot of these people are survivors or victims who lost

941
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 7: someone and then again in this suspects case, his family

942
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 7: has just had their lives imploded. So you just be

943
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 7: patient and be respectful.

944
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 3: Just I guess reiterate what Lisa and Mike have already said.

945
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 3: But I guess the other thing I would say is

946
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 3: just remembering that these were young women and they might

947
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 3: have been escorts for a period of time in their lives,

948
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 3: but they're not just quote sex workers. Every person who

949
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 3: was a victim of this person, if again he has

950
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 3: found guilty, have a life story, and that life story

951
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 3: ended up very tragically I just think it's important to

952
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 3: think about the fact that, you know, to the families

953
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 3: and the friends of these young women, they weren't, you know,

954
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 3: just sex workers. And so I think and I've been

955
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 3: very happy that I haven't heard a lot of talk

956
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 3: about that. And there's no question that engaging in certain

957
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 3: behaviors that are illegal can put people at higher risk.

958
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 3: But I just want to, I think, just reiterate that

959
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 3: that you know, what we are much more than what

960
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 3: we do or what we've done at a certain point

961
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 3: in our lives, and it's important to keep that in perspective.

962
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: For the victims and the families out there that are

963
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 2: still waiting for justice, and not just for this case,

964
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 2: but for any cold case out there. Just remember that

965
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,879
Speaker 2: there are men and women working hard on these who

966
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 2: live by the model never give up, and there are

967
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: people working on these cases diligently, and unfortunately sometimes this

968
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: takes a long time, but we can see the fruits

969
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 2: of their work and see exactly what their role is

970
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 2: and how they're going to go forward and try to

971
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: help bring that closure to families.

972
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: Carrie, I'm gonna give you the final final word, oh Lord,

973
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: no pressure, but it's got to be brilliant.

974
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 5: I just want I just want to appreciate, thank you

975
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 5: all for being in my life and letting me come

976
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 5: in and out and be a trauma victim and survivor

977
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 5: and advocate and teaching me all the Zone seven ropes.

978
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 5: I think, what you know, my colleagues here are saying

979
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 5: is like, we got to be patient. There's a lot

980
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 5: more coming, I'm expecting. I always say things seem to

981
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 5: be like, you know, it's going to get worse before

982
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 5: it gets better, and a lot of aspects here. I'm

983
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 5: really glad that we caught the scritter.

984
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 6: That's amazing.

985
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 5: I'm hopeful for these families that will keep clearing these cases.

986
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 6: There's really nothing better than that.

987
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 5: I mean, it doesn't change things, that doesn't bring anybody back,

988
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 5: but being able to clear these cases is huge. And

989
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 5: then we just got to be patient, like you know

990
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 5: people are saying. And also we just need to remember

991
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 5: Rex's family and keep them in mind and remember to

992
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 5: respect them as a victim family because that's that's what

993
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 5: they are at this point, That's what law enforcement's telling us.

994
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 5: And seek out the good, the good, the good, you know,

995
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 5: the good people that are trying to stay above the

996
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 5: bar and being factual and.

997
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 6: I don't know, just like just stick with it and and.

998
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 5: Be productive and useful, you know, like we were talking about,

999
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 5: like go figure out out some cold cases, or contact

1000
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 5: any of us if you have something, and we'll route

1001
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 5: it around. We all can keep working together and keep

1002
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 5: that tide moving here.

1003
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 6: We just got to do it together.

1004
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 1: Seek out the good. I love that, and you know

1005
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: I tell my own children, love wins. This was one

1006
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: evil person, but I can literally tell you there are

1007
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: hundreds of people trying to do something about it. So

1008
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: love wins. There's more good people than bad. I want

1009
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: to thank y'all again for being here with me, not

1010
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: just on this episode, but in my career and in

1011
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: my personal life. So I'm going to end Zone seven

1012
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: the way that I always do with a quote. Crime

1013
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: must be evaluated in its totality. There is no substitute

1014
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: for experience. And if you want to understand the criminal mind,

1015
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: you must go directly to the source and learn to

1016
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: decipher what he tells you. And above all, why plus

1017
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: how equals who? John Douglas mind Hunner. I'm Cheryl McCollum,

1018
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: and this is one seven