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Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine.

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Speaker 2: Today on the bright side, we're learning about magical overthinking

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Speaker 2: with author, linguist and podcast host Amanda Montel.

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Speaker 3: And afterwards, Amanda sticks around to quiz us on our

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Speaker 3: Internet lingo in a very choogy aka cringey millennial game

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Speaker 3: that we're calling decoded no googling aloud. It's Wednesday, April third.

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Speaker 3: I'm Danielle Robe.

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Speaker 2: And I'm simone Voice, and this is the bright side

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Speaker 2: from Hello Sunshine. So, Danielle, I was doom scrolling, but

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Speaker 2: I found some good news that really put a smile

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Speaker 2: on my face.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, tell me okay, So here it is.

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Speaker 2: A recent poll found that eight out of ten Americans

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Speaker 2: are regularly paying it forward.

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Speaker 5: I love that.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of Americans paying it forward.

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Speaker 4: It's beautiful, right.

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Speaker 2: So they're helping their neighbors carry groceries or shovel their driveways,

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Speaker 2: give generous tips, treating loved ones to a little something

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Speaker 2: special for no reason at all. This to me.

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Speaker 3: And the poll was done by this banking app Chime,

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Speaker 3: and they found, on average that people do five generous

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Speaker 3: acts every week, which adds up to two hundred and

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Speaker 3: sixty acts of kindness each year, which is pretty remarkable.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of people, it's a lot of acts

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Speaker 3: of kindness. I find them contagious. As a Midwest girl,

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Speaker 3: acts of kindness are in my DNA. One of the

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Speaker 3: things I learned from Jesse Itzler, who is Sarah Blakeley's husband,

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Speaker 3: the founder of Spanks.

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Speaker 2: I follow him too. I love I love him. I

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Speaker 2: love his energy, so positive, he.

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Speaker 3: Is so positive and he has really tactical advice.

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Speaker 1: And he taught me this.

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Speaker 3: Once a week, when somebody I love or like comes

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Speaker 3: into my mind, I'll either write an email or a

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Speaker 3: handwritten note thanking them for something that they have done,

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Speaker 3: whether they like poured into me, gave me a tip

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Speaker 3: at work, just like did something that felt really good.

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Speaker 1: And I've found that.

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Speaker 3: It, like a really strengthens my connections. But I think

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Speaker 3: it's contagious for them too, like they pass it on

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Speaker 3: and it's just one a week.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So maybe I am doing little acts of kindness

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Speaker 2: because sometimes I'll just send and a friend a text

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Speaker 2: and just say, hey, I'm thinking of you. I know

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Speaker 2: we're both really busy right now and we can't get together,

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Speaker 2: but I'm thinking of you, and here's why I love you.

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Speaker 2: Here's how you inspire me. Does that count asn't it?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: My god?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: When I have a girlfriend that sends me a message,

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Speaker 3: especially in the morning that I wake up to that's

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Speaker 3: like You're in my prayers or I'm thinking about you,

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Speaker 3: or like go have a great day. I actually think

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Speaker 3: it shifts my energy.

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Speaker 2: We often don't realize the power that we have with

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Speaker 2: those little small acts of kindness, those little microjoys.

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Speaker 1: Yes I think so.

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Speaker 3: And talking about it from like a zoomed out perspective

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Speaker 3: can sometimes feel earnest or corny, but if you really

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Speaker 3: drill into it, it's powerful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Okay, bright Side Bessie is up next. We

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Speaker 2: have something special to share with you. Reese has just

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Speaker 2: announced her book club pick for April. Danielle, can I

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Speaker 2: please get a drum roll?

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Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations are in order for Laire Lombardo, her novel The

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Speaker 2: Most Fun We Ever Had is this month's featured book.

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Speaker 3: Is this the most fun We're ever gonna have reading

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Speaker 3: a book? I think maybe I'm really excited about this.

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Speaker 3: The Most Fun We Ever Had came out in twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen and has gotten absolutely rave reviews. It was a

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Speaker 3: new York Times bestseller and it's set in my hometown

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Speaker 3: of Chicago. It follows a married couple and their four

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Speaker 3: daughters over a period of forty years, and I cannot

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Speaker 3: wait to read this. We're actually gonna have Claire on

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Speaker 3: the show later this month to talk about the book.

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Speaker 2: She'll answer our questions and hopefully some of yours too,

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Speaker 2: So send them over to us at Hello at the

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Speaker 2: Brightside podcast dot com.

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Speaker 3: Okay, see money, Simone, I have a personal question for you,

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Speaker 3: and you can't not answer because we're friends. Now we

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Speaker 3: are close enough for me to ask you this.

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Speaker 1: What type of.

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Speaker 3: Underwear are you wearing right here, right now, in this chair.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually wearing granny panties. Girl, I ain't even gonna lie.

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Speaker 5: No, you're not.

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Speaker 2: I am I'm wearing, but I'm wearing seamless granny panties.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's, you know, a step up from

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Speaker 2: the old school granny panties that we know.

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Speaker 1: I'm here to.

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Speaker 3: Report the news everybody. Granny panties are having a moment.

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Speaker 3: They're hot, they're in Celebs are wearing their granny panties

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Speaker 3: with pride. I'm talking Bellahadide, Kendall, and Kylie Jenner. They've

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Speaker 3: all been spotted rocking granny panties while out and about.

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Speaker 3: They're kind of rocking them, like a panty with no

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Speaker 3: pants and a jacket and a biker shirt.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to clarify that is that's a vibe. Okay, yes,

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Speaker 2: the whole no pants trend. I am all about it.

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Speaker 2: I actually I really want to try it. Technically, I've

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Speaker 2: already tried it.

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Speaker 1: You got a lot of legs, you could do it well.

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Speaker 2: So okay, here's the thing. I did actually try it.

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Speaker 2: I ordered all this clothing off of Revolve, and I

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Speaker 2: tried it on. I got like the the granny panty briefs,

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Speaker 2: I got the tights. I got an oversized blazer.

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Speaker 4: I tried it on.

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Speaker 2: I looked in the mirror and I was like, girl,

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Speaker 2: you cannot go out like the Like my legs looked

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Speaker 2: like sausages, like trying to like squeeze into these granny

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Speaker 2: panties and tights.

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Speaker 4: It was not cute.

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Speaker 3: Here's the thing, Okay, here's the thing. For anybody who

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Speaker 3: hasn't seen this yet, think of like a gen.

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Speaker 1: Z pin up girl. That's what it's giving.

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Speaker 3: Now we've been told our whole lives to put our

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Speaker 3: granny panties in the back of the drawer. Now everybody's

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Speaker 3: telling us to wear them out in public.

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Speaker 1: I am not with this.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of it's briefs. I think you can also

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Speaker 2: think of it as hot shorts. They're also they've also

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Speaker 2: been hot shorts.

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Speaker 4: Hot pants.

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Speaker 3: I wear hot pants. I wear hot shorts to hot yoga.

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Speaker 3: These are not those. These are bloomers like my grandmother

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Speaker 3: wore these under her clothing in the nineteen thirties and forties.

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Speaker 2: Yes, fashion is cyclical, Danielle. And here's what I like

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Speaker 2: about this this movement though, Okay, we are reprioritizing the

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Speaker 2: comfort and satisfaction of the gender who is actually wearing

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Speaker 2: the garment because we're coming out of the victorious Secret era,

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Speaker 2: which was all about catering to the male gaze really tight, uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: lacy pieces. I mean, some of it was cute and

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Speaker 2: sexy and it made us feel good. But I think

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Speaker 2: that's why we're seeing consumers embrace brands like Savage fenty

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Speaker 2: and skims, because they're prioritizing body positivity and they want

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Speaker 2: women to feel good in what they're wearing.

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Speaker 3: I looked up what obgyns say about this, okay, and

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Speaker 3: they actually say that granny panties are good for you.

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Speaker 1: This is the quote.

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Speaker 3: They provide full coverage underwear and it provides more protection

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Speaker 3: to a woman's private area.

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Speaker 1: So listen to.

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Speaker 5: Each their own.

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Speaker 3: If you want to wrack the granny panty, you go

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Speaker 3: for it, because underwear is like beneath your clothest's for you.

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Speaker 3: In my opinion, it's like what makes you feel good.

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Speaker 3: But I have to tell you this trend is.

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Speaker 1: Not for me. I am a thong girl.

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Speaker 3: I will never be caught dead in granny panties, and

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Speaker 3: I'm definitely not wearing them out in public.

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Speaker 2: I'm mostly a thong girl too, But I gotta tell

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Speaker 2: you these seamless granny panties I'm wearing right now, I

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Speaker 2: feel safe, feel held.

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Speaker 1: I feel how husband feel about them.

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Speaker 4: I don't care what he thinks. This is about me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, danielle On, behalf of me and my granny pennies.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for this spirited debate.

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Speaker 1: You know say that with your full chest. Simone On,

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Speaker 1: behalf of me and my granny pats. Goodbye.

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Speaker 3: After the break, we sit down with author and linguist

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Speaker 3: Amanda Montel to talk about magical overthinking, what is and

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Speaker 3: how can we all overcome our racing minds?

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Speaker 1: You don't want to miss this stick around.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever feel so overwhelmed by information overload that

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Speaker 2: you don't know what to think? Or maybe even find

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Speaker 2: yourself believing something you know doesn't make sense just because

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Speaker 2: it feels right. Then you, my friend, might be magically

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Speaker 2: overthinking it, According to Today.

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Speaker 3: Amanda Montel is a linguist and writer and host of

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Speaker 3: the Sounds Like a Cult podcast. Her new book, The

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Speaker 3: Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, is out

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Speaker 3: next week April ninth, and it tackles the strange ways

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Speaker 3: our minds behave in the face of way too much information.

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Speaker 3: She's brilliant and she happens to be my friend, Amanda.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging out with us.

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Speaker 5: Oh stop it, it's my favorite place to be Amanda, welcome.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much. It's like such a pleasure. You

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Speaker 5: both look gorgeous as see you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: We are so thrilled to have you here. On the

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Speaker 2: bright side, your new book is called The Age of

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Speaker 2: Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. So what do you

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Speaker 2: mean by the age of magical overthinking.

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Speaker 5: I've been defining it as this time and history when

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Speaker 5: we're living in the information age, and yet so many

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Speaker 5: of us feel like the world is only making less

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Speaker 5: and less sense. There seems to be this clash between

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Speaker 5: our innate mysticism that so many of us engage in

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Speaker 5: and it's natural to do so, and this time when

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Speaker 5: there's an excess of information. We're exposed to more info

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Speaker 5: every single day and more social identities every single day

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Speaker 5: than our ancestors would have been exposed to in a lifetime.

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Speaker 5: And so there seems to be this pretty explosive collision

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Speaker 5: between the ways that our minds naturally process the world

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Speaker 5: and the world that we've created. That's what I'm calling

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Speaker 5: the age of magical overthinking.

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Speaker 2: Can you also clarify the difference between magical thinking and

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Speaker 2: magical overthinking totally?

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 5: Magical thinking is an age old human quirk. It describes

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Speaker 5: our propensity to believe that our thoughts and our feelings

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Speaker 5: can affect external events, and this shows up in ideas

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Speaker 5: like that of manifestation. You know, I'm gonna vision board

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Speaker 5: my way to wealth and success, And a little bit

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Speaker 5: of magical thinking is actually helpful. It's a coping mechanism.

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Speaker 5: It helps us feel like we're in control and reclaiming

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Speaker 5: some agency during times of personal suffering or culture wide turbulence.

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Speaker 5: Magical overthinking, though, feels like a product of the current age,

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Speaker 5: when we are assigned to contend with an onslaught of

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Speaker 5: information every single day. It's too much for us to process,

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Speaker 5: and at the very same time, there's this almost capitalistic,

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Speaker 5: perfectionistic pressure to know everything under the sun. It's just

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Speaker 5: not natural.

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Speaker 3: So magical overthinking is when you really believe something totally

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Speaker 3: irrational due to the information overload that's inescapable in today's

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Speaker 3: day and age. For instance, when you decide you absolutely

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Speaker 3: have to finish watching a TV show you don't even

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Speaker 3: like because you're already on season four. This extends to

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Speaker 3: weightier issues as well, like believing you can cure cancer

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Speaker 3: with positive vibes alone. There's another name for this too,

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Speaker 3: and it's cognitive bias. Can you explain what cognitive bias is?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So, the term cognitive bias describes this sort of

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Speaker 5: deep rooted mental magic trick that we play on ourselves.

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Speaker 5: It's this kind of psychological shortcut that we take to

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Speaker 5: make sense of the world, and our ancestors used to

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Speaker 5: take these shortcuts in a way that was net positive.

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Speaker 5: But now we're applying these cognitive biases unconsciously to problems

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Speaker 5: that are so much more abstract and complex than the

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Speaker 5: problems that we had to deal with when they first developed,

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Speaker 5: and so that's causing us a great deal of existential pain.

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Speaker 2: Your book actually covers eleven different cognitive biases, including the

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Speaker 2: sunk cost fallacy.

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Speaker 4: What is that? And how did you come across it?

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Speaker 5: So I really started to look more closely into cognitive

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Speaker 5: biases while doing the research for my last book, Cultish,

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Speaker 5: and as I was researching the mechanics of cult influence,

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Speaker 5: I kept coming across this really fascinating psychology and behavioral

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Speaker 5: economics research that made mention of some of these more

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Speaker 5: famous biases that might ring a bell, like confirmation bias,

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Speaker 5: sunk cost fallacy, and how they were informing cult behavior.

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Speaker 5: But I couldn't help but notice that they also could

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Speaker 5: explain so many of the decisions that I had made

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Speaker 5: throughout my life that I could never justify that literally

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Speaker 5: never made sense to me, but that also applied to

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Speaker 5: decisions that other people do that I'm like eh, that

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Speaker 5: doesn't check out. The math is not mathing, so to speak.

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Speaker 5: These cognitive biases were really illuminating, and one of the

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Speaker 5: ones that struck me first was the sunk cost fallacy,

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Speaker 5: which is this propensity to believe that resources already spent

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Speaker 5: on an endeavor like money, time, but also emotional resources

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Speaker 5: like hope, justify spending even more so you mentioned it earlier,

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Speaker 5: but a low stakes example would be, oh my god,

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Speaker 5: I'm already one hundred episodes into this show that I

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Speaker 5: don't even like anymore, but I've gotten this far in.

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Speaker 5: I'm invested. I can't quit now. And on a higher

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Speaker 5: stakes level, that can cause you to stay in a

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Speaker 5: cult like toxic one on one relationship for years past

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Speaker 5: what makes sense to anyone else or yourself, because you

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Speaker 5: figure I made a bet on myself. My bet was

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Speaker 5: that this relationship was going to make me happy, and

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Speaker 5: human beings are naturally so averse to loss, like to

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Speaker 5: admit that this endeavor that we sunk so much time

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Speaker 5: and effort into is actually turning out not to pan out.

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Speaker 5: So we do all this mental gymnastics to defend that choice,

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Speaker 5: to justify it, and it makes us feel like we're

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Speaker 5: more predictable to ourselves and thus more attractive to other

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Speaker 5: people because we don't come across as a loose cannon.

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Speaker 5: So this fallacy can really explain why I myself decided

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Speaker 5: to spend seven years in what I consider like a

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Speaker 5: very very toxic relationship that wasn't serving me because I

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Speaker 5: was falling susceptible to this fallacy that just wasn't doing

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Speaker 5: anything good for me in the moment.

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Speaker 3: In the sunk costs fallacy chapter, you write something that

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Speaker 3: I love. You say, quote, it's okay to forgive yourself

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Speaker 3: and to build a life that's so full and so

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Speaker 3: yours that you never really sunk any.

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Speaker 1: Costs at all. Yeah, why did you write that line?

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Speaker 3: Because I know you're writing from a personal place there

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Speaker 3: I can feel it.

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Speaker 1: I wrote that.

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Speaker 5: Because there is so much pressure, especially in a society

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Speaker 5: that is influenced by rom comms, and that really applies

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Speaker 5: a lot of shame to people who've broken up with

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Speaker 5: their long term partners. You know, when a celebrity couple

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Speaker 5: breaks up, we really punish them. We perceive them as

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Speaker 5: you know, chaotic or not able to handle their you

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Speaker 5: know what, And that can cause us to feel like

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Speaker 5: we need to stick around with people who aren't doing

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Speaker 5: the most for us. And so what I hope to

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Speaker 5: communicate in this chapter is that there is a behavioral economics,

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Speaker 5: empirical reason why we sometimes stay in relationships that don't

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Speaker 5: make sense to anyone else or ourselves, and that at

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Speaker 5: the same time, it's not necessarily an excuse this explanation.

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Speaker 5: It can be really informative and illuminating to help you

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Speaker 5: make better decisions moving forward, but that ultimately you know,

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Speaker 5: it's not there to support like everything happens for a

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Speaker 5: reason type rhetoric, because I don't know if I fully

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Speaker 5: believe that, but I do think it's important to recognize

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Speaker 5: that our lives are not necessarily stories with plot points,

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Speaker 5: and you know, so.

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Speaker 3: Characters whose traits track like I love that you're saying that,

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Speaker 3: I hate that phrase. Do it for the plot?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, do it for the plot because hate that listen.

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Speaker 5: I naturally do things for the plot. I conceive of

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Speaker 5: my life as this hero's journey, and so when some

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Speaker 5: random tragedy comes along, I either ignore it or I

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Speaker 5: do this mental contortionism to like shoehorn it into the

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Speaker 5: plot so that it makes sense. But life is not

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Speaker 5: like that. Sometimes life is chaotic. Sometimes things happen for

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Speaker 5: no reason, and that's okay, and it doesn't make it

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Speaker 5: less valid. It doesn't make your life less interesting or

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Speaker 5: less important. And so I wrote this chapter to help

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Speaker 5: me process some of those experiences and hopefully in turn,

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Speaker 5: help others too.

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Speaker 2: There's another chapter called the Shit Talking Hypothesis. I love

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Speaker 2: that chapter title. And in this chapter you introduce the

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Speaker 2: zero sum bias. What is it and how do we

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Speaker 2: overcome it?

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Speaker 1: Listen?

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Speaker 5: Zero some bias is most often discussed in the context

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Speaker 5: of economics, but I thought it would be more full

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Speaker 5: and relatable to discuss it in the context of social comparison.

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Speaker 5: So it describes this very deep rooted instinct to think

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Speaker 5: that another person's gain directly means your loss. So when

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Speaker 5: we see another person who is successful, beautiful, wealthy, cool,

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Speaker 5: we think that is a direct threat to our wealth, success, beauty,

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Speaker 5: and coolness, even though that's not true. There is not

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Speaker 5: a limited quantity of light in the universe. Another person's

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Speaker 5: light doesn't directly dim yours. But this stems from such

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Speaker 5: a deep rooted inclination that goes back to a time

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Speaker 5: in human history when resources within a small community may

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Speaker 5: very well have been limited. You know, you were competing

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Speaker 5: with people who were in your age group for mates, food,

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Speaker 5: et cetera. Things really were zero sum. That's not the

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Speaker 5: case anymore, and yet we can't shake this ingrained fallacy.

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Speaker 5: Becoming aware of it has become really helpful to me,

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Speaker 5: especially as a woman. We're living in a society that

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Speaker 5: really does set up a zero sum game for women,

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Speaker 5: in particular where we're led to believe that there is

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Speaker 5: only a small, select few seats in the c suite

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Speaker 5: or on the Supreme Court for women, and thus there

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Speaker 5: is only a limited number of women who can be

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Speaker 5: perceived as successful and wealthy or whatever you value. And

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Speaker 5: there's this amazing quote that Anne Friedman and May Not

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Speaker 5: Too So said in a viral cut piece from twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 5: where they coin this phrase shine theory, which describes this

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Speaker 5: idea that two women can actually combine their light everybody

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Speaker 5: burns brighter. And I find that really inspiring, especially in

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Speaker 5: a culture where studies find that women are prone to

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Speaker 5: make more upward comparisons and downward identifications.

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Speaker 2: I wish I had interacted with you in my early

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Speaker 2: twenties when I was such a hustler and so insecure

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Speaker 2: and competitive because all this is just it's making so

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Speaker 2: much sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and as somebody who loves stats and research,

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Speaker 3: it's actually proven.

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Speaker 5: You can touch it, feel it, listen. I find that

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Speaker 5: stats and impureracle studies are so validating, especially when they

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Speaker 5: support a frustration that I've always had but could never

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Speaker 5: put a number or a graph.

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Speaker 1: Two.

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Speaker 5: The other interesting thing is that I find it really

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Speaker 5: ironic that the women who appear to threaten us the

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Speaker 5: worst are the ones we have most in common with, aka,

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Speaker 5: the ones we could become best friends with.

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's somebody I forgot who told me this years ago,

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Speaker 3: but they said, if somebody, especially another woman, triggers something

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Speaker 3: in you, you have to look inward. It's about you,

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Speaker 3: it's not about them, And it's such a good rule

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Speaker 3: of thumb.

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Speaker 5: I actually feel like, if a woman is triggering you

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Speaker 5: and inspiring you to feel competitive and to allow them

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Speaker 5: to live rent free in your head instead of like

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Speaker 5: beating yourself up, befriend her.

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Speaker 1: Befriend her.

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Speaker 2: See this aligns with a reframe that I have used

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Speaker 2: in the past, like, what if, ever I'm feeling like

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Speaker 2: threatened or jealous or competitive with someone, I just say

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Speaker 2: she inspires me, I turn it around into inspiration, like

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Speaker 2: I want to learn from her or I want to

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Speaker 2: It's a shine theory, you know, I want to absorb

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Speaker 2: that magnetism.

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Speaker 3: There are so many great stories and observations in this book,

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Speaker 3: But if you had to leave our listeners with one

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Speaker 3: takeaway about how they can bring more joy into their lives,

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Speaker 3: let me repeat that more joy. I feel like that's

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Speaker 3: what we need right now.

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Speaker 1: What would that be?

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 5: One of my favorite solutions to magical overthinking has to

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Speaker 5: do with the concept of AWE. There's this amazing social

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Speaker 5: scientist named doctor Kelner who wrote a whole book about

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Speaker 5: AWE and I love this concept because it describes the

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Speaker 5: sort of humbling wonder that you experience when you're perceiving

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Speaker 5: a phenomenon that you can't quite understand. So if you're

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Speaker 5: in the midst of nature or stunning live music, or

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Speaker 5: engaging in a spiritual ritual, it's helpful because it takes

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Speaker 5: you outside of yourself. It removes some of that self

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Speaker 5: focus that can be so destructive existentially. And so I

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Speaker 5: find that whenever I'm spiraling overthinking, I try to get

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Speaker 5: outside of myself by immersing myself in an experience that

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Speaker 5: inspires all.

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Speaker 3: Amanda, thank you so much for sharing all of your

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Speaker 3: insights with us. After the break, Amanda's going to draw

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Speaker 3: on her background as a linguist and quiz us on

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Speaker 3: our knowledge of viral slaying in a jugee game that

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Speaker 3: we're calling Decoded.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't know what chugi means, you're about

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Speaker 2: to find out. And we're back with writer, linguist and

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Speaker 2: podcast host Amanda Montel and she's here to play a

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Speaker 2: round of Decoded, our rapid fire game of Internet speak.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, Amanda, Thank you so much for having me. Okay,

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Speaker 3: bright side besties. Here's how the game works. Amanda has

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Speaker 3: a list of words that Simone and I have not seen.

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Speaker 3: These are terms that some of us and hopefully Simone

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Speaker 3: and I have come across on the Internet already, and

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Speaker 3: we have to guess exactly what they mean. Simone, Amanda,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm ready for this.

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Speaker 1: Are we Let's go?

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Speaker 4: Let's I want to be embarrassed?

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Speaker 1: Let's okay?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, language is changing fast than ever. The

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Speaker 5: Internet obviously is responsible for that. So if you don't

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Speaker 5: know any of these terms, don't feel ashamed. Things are

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Speaker 5: moving quickly. I also want to make the disclaimer that

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Speaker 5: so much terminology that we perceive as Internet slang actually

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Speaker 5: does have its roots in marginalized communities, communities that have

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Speaker 5: always used language as a form of power in a

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Speaker 5: society that doesn't always give them the most accessible forms

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Speaker 5: of power. So I want to give credit where credit

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Speaker 5: is due. But the first term on this list, it's

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Speaker 5: a softball. What does chewgee mean?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: I know this one.

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Speaker 1: Okay. It's first of all, I'm choogy, you're choogee. We're millennials.

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Speaker 4: First of all, this game is cheogy, right, game is choogo?

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Speaker 4: This game is so choogy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, uh, millennial.

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00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: It's giving Lulu lemon, which I love.

442
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 4: It's giving it's giving tryhard millennial.

443
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

444
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 4: Yeah.

445
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 5: This is one of those terms where it's much easier

446
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 5: to say what it looks like than what it is.

447
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 5: So it did have this kind of flash in the

448
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 5: pan moment on TikTok in twenty twenty one, but it

449
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 5: didn't take off by any means. It did not become

450
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 5: viral until for some reason The New York Times lashed

451
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 5: onto it and covered it in a piece, and then

452
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 5: millennials started to kind of panic a little bit, actually

453
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 5: a lot of bit on mass because everybody was engaging

454
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 5: in this discourse of like, oh my god, am I

455
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 5: chugy am I chewgi.

456
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 3: It wasn't this like the middle and side parts and

457
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: the straight skinny leg jeens.

458
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely yes, it's being judged by the younger generation.

459
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 4: That's what chew gin is.

460
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 5: Exactly, which is a tale as old as time.

461
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: You know.

462
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 5: Really, it wasn't that gen Z was overly roasting us,

463
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 5: but we were starting to get the sense for the

464
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 5: first time that we were getting maybe a little older.

465
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 5: I mean, the youth has always driven linguistic change, and

466
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 5: it was a sign that we millennials were not the

467
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 5: drivers of slaying anymore, and that really disturbed us. So

468
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 5: it was really millennial's anxiety about the word shoogie that

469
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,719
Speaker 5: caused it to blow up, not the word shogie itself.

470
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: The flip side of chowgi is whenever you get a

471
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: compliment from a gaggle of gen z ers, just feels like,

472
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: oh my god.

473
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 4: Thank you.

474
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 5: Oh you have no idea. I went and spoke in

475
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 5: a high school the other week, and one of the

476
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 5: students told me, I ate.

477
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 4: I was like no crumbs.

478
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: You actually do you eat anything?

479
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. I was like, m ah um,

480
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 5: gonna google that.

481
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: Okay.

482
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 5: The next word on this list is one of my favorites.

483
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 5: The word is delulu.

484
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, tots. It's short for delusional.

485
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it has like a positive spin like be

486
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: delulu enough to believe all your dreams are gonna come true,

487
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 3: Be delulu enough that you can meet the person of

488
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 3: your dreams.

489
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 5: Yes, no, it is giving manifestation. I love that it

490
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 5: is not only positive but cutesy, and we have the

491
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 5: suffix delulu to thank for that not only isn't an abbreviation,

492
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 5: but it incorporates kind of baby babbling, googo gaga delulu,

493
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 5: and I love all the sort of like rhyming spinoffs

494
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 5: that it's inspired, like de Lulu is the only solu

495
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 5: to make your dreams come true?

496
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 3: Lulu I really appreciated a podcast episode back. Yeah.

497
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 5: I love that.

498
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: It also feels like it's in alignment with the ascendancy

499
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 2: of girlhood as an idea.

500
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 5: Like fully fully Yeah. It's like we're cutesifying concepts that

501
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: might not all on their own be cute, but they

502
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 5: are indeed coping mechanisms in our world right now, okay,

503
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 5: speaking of girlhood. Actually, the next term is coquette.

504
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: Isn't this an old term. This is a new term.

505
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 5: This is an old term that has experienced new life.

506
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: I haven't heard this I except for in the old way.

507
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: Coquettish is a term that I feel like I can

508
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 2: grasp more easily, which to me evokes French lead of

509
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: a rom com.

510
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, like a flirt, a flirt. You're absolutely right.

511
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: So coquette is now a TikTok, aesthetic that has expanded

512
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 3: into fashion spaces, et cetera. TikTok is obviously a platform

513
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 3: where micro trends thrive and spread, like tomato girl summer

514
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: or coastal grandma or coquette. We don't have these for

515
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 3: men on TikTok. If we do, no one cares.

516
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: It's very interesting.

517
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 4: I think that's okay. I love that we have our

518
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 4: own things.

519
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 5: Well, femaleness is always under a microscope, for better and

520
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 5: for worse. But coquette is another one of these terms

521
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 5: that's easier to depict than define. So think an aesthetic

522
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 5: involving bows, ribbons, pastel, pinks, knee socks, Lana del Rey. Yeah,

523
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 5: people Okay, some people have a very pukey reaction to this.

524
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 5: To me, I'm sorry if anybody listening is coquettish.

525
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 2: Oh so, I love coquettish thing. It's kind of coy, girly,

526
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: extremely feminine.

527
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 5: Yes, it's hype of feminine, and I think it does

528
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 5: also reflect this discourse surrounding girlhood alongside the eras tour

529
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 5: and Barbie. You know this, there's a sort of elevating

530
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 5: of girlhood, which I love. Okay, And my very last

531
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 5: term for you is beije flag. Wait?

532
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 4: Whoa beige flag? Okay?

533
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: Beige flag is in between a red flag and a

534
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: green flag.

535
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, As you can probably tell, it refers to

536
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 5: one of these signals in a relationship, like a red flag,

537
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 5: which is a warning sign do not proceed. Green flag

538
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 5: is like, yeah, that's a good person, feel free to

539
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 5: date them. A beige flag is a sign that maybe

540
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 5: a person is not good, not bad, but perplexing in

541
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 5: an oddly mundane way.

542
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: So a beige flag is goldilocks.

543
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 5: Yeah maybe again, just right, it's hard to get well

544
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 5: or maybe just wrong. I will quote an article by

545
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 5: Mia Mercato from The Cut. Mia says it could be

546
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 5: the particular way they do their laundry, or their deep

547
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 5: fear of astronauts. This tidbit of information is neither a

548
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 5: deal breaker nor a deal maker, neither alarming nor alluring.

549
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 5: It simply is, hmm, beige flag.

550
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 3: So one time I did an exercise with an executive

551
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 3: coach and she was like, one through ten, number these

552
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: things in your life, and it's relationships, home, spirituality, community, service,

553
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 3: et cetera. But you cannot use a seven because everybody

554
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: uses that in between number. You got to give something, commit, commit,

555
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: and I feel like a beige flag is just so noncommittal.

556
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: No, No, life is all about the in between. It's

557
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: all about the gray area nuance.

558
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: Yes, agreed, but I beige does not signify nuance.

559
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: To me, it signifies mundane.

560
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 5: It's oddly hard to define because I've seen some beige

561
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 5: flags symbolize boring, and I've seen some beige flags resemble

562
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 5: like unidentifiably quirky. But we like quirky here, Yeah, yeah,

563
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 5: I do. I do agree, though we like to live

564
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 5: in the nuances in the beij.

565
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: Is it chooge to say that we kind of killed

566
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: this game, we ate we hate Is it chug to

567
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: say that we ate at this game.

568
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 5: I mean, god, you know they do say as soon

569
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 5: as the Olds embrace the term, it's.

570
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 4: It's done, it's dead.

571
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: I know. Sadly, Amanda, thank you so much. This has

572
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 2: been so fun and also so illuminating a.

573
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: Blast for me.

574
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: Yes. Amanda Montelle is a writer, linguist, and host of

575
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: the podcast Sounds Like a Cult. She's also the author

576
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: of words Lud, a feminist guide to taking back the

577
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: English Language, and Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism. Her new book,

578
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on modern irrationality, is

579
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: out April ninth.

580
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 4: Oh that was so fun.

581
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: I definitely learned a thing or two about why we

582
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: do the things that we do.

583
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 3: Yes, and when she talks about shine theory, I mean

584
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 3: that just aligns with our show and our mission so much.

585
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: We're really here to lift each other up and inspire

586
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: one another always.

587
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: And I think the one parting affirmation we want to

588
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: leave you with today is actually something Amanda said, and

589
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: that is two women fusing their light makes us all shine.

590
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: Writer, hmmm, one hundred percent.

591
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: When we shine a light on other people's stories and

592
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: gifts is such a gift for us too.

593
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. Do you have a

594
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: shine theory story.

595
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a moment when you befriended someone who initially

596
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: intimidated you and now you're besties, or when someone at

597
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: work stepped up and really had your back. Send us

598
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: a note or a voice memo at Hello at the

599
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: bright sidepodcast dot com.

600
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: We really love a voice note here. We listen to

601
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: them all.

602
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: Tomorrow we're talking to singer songwriter Raina Roberts about Beyonce's

603
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: new album, Cowboy Carter, which she's featured in, and the

604
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: album's impact on country music and beyond. All right, that's

605
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: it for today's show. We'll be back tomorrow with your

606
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: daily dose of sunshine. So listen and subscribe on the

607
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

608
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: You can find me Simone Voice at Simone Voice.

609
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: And I'm Danielle Robe at Danielle robe ro Bay.

610
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 4: Keep looking on the bright side.