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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking about staying focused with Kurt Steinhorst. Yeah, Joe,

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Speaker 1: there are countless ways that we're distracted in our lives today,

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Speaker 1: and these distractions are keeping us from doing good things

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Speaker 1: we truly need to do. And it is very easy

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Speaker 1: for us to allow ourselves to be constantly barraged by notifications,

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Speaker 1: social media or by email. And these distractions are keeping

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Speaker 1: us from being good friends and family members at home,

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Speaker 1: and they're keeping us from being productive and engaged at work.

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Speaker 1: That's why we are stoked to be talking with distraction

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Speaker 1: expert Kurt Steinhorst today. Kurt wrote the book Can I

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Speaker 1: Have Your Attention? Inspiring better work habits, focusing your team

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Speaker 1: and getting stuff done, and the constantly connected workplace. Joe,

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Speaker 1: we often talk about ways to save money, but today's

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Speaker 1: conversation we're going to focus on how we can do

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Speaker 1: a better job earning money by focusing our attention on

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Speaker 1: what matters the most. So, Kurt, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us today. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to be here. Awesome, Hey, Kurt, and we're excited to

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Speaker 1: We're gonna give away a couple of year books, so

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Speaker 1: the listeners stay tuned. At the end of the episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk about how you can win one of

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Speaker 1: Kurt's books. And by the way, Kurt, every week on

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Speaker 1: the show, Matt and I we drink a beer. We're

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Speaker 1: super into craft beer, and for us it is this

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Speaker 1: kind of splurge that helps us to in the here

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Speaker 1: and now enjoy something that we love. While in the

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Speaker 1: process of enjoying something that we love, we're saving for

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Speaker 1: the future. So we asked our first question every guest

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Speaker 1: is kind of what's your splurge? What's your craft beer equivalent? So, Kurt,

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Speaker 1: what's yours? Well, asides from craft beer. Uh, my wife

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Speaker 1: and I had a kid about a year ago, was

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Speaker 1: our third child, and we decided right at the beginning

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Speaker 1: that we're gonna have someone come in and help us

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Speaker 1: with all of the stuff we don't like doing. So

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Speaker 1: this isn't like the deep clean once every couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: We have someone that comes in um every other day

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Speaker 1: and does all of the laundry, the dishes, you name it,

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Speaker 1: and I can't we we initially we're going to just

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Speaker 1: do it for the first two months and it has

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Speaker 1: become so amazing, Like there's just something crazy about coming

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Speaker 1: home from work and saying, you know what, I don't

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Speaker 1: have to do today, the stuff that normally takes an

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Speaker 1: hour of the four hour window that I have not working.

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Speaker 1: And so that's probably the biggest flags that I have

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Speaker 1: on my on my income statement, I should say no

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Speaker 1: crummy chores for Kurt. I like that. Yeah. Plus, but

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Speaker 1: this isn't an episode we can allow our wives to

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Speaker 1: hear now they're doing that. That's something that we prioritize. Hey,

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Speaker 1: could you guys be a little more like hurt. They

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Speaker 1: just need to talk to my wife, I promise, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they'll the change in perspective. Awesome, Well, thanks for sharing

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Speaker 1: that with us. Man and Court. You're all about helping

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Speaker 1: folks reclaim their ability to focus. Right. Your book Can

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Speaker 1: I Have your Attention is dedicated to that topic. So

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Speaker 1: how did you get interested in our ability to focus?

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Speaker 1: And why have you chosen to be a distraction expert?

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Speaker 1: You know, ironically it all started because I was diagnosed

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Speaker 1: with a d D when I was a kid. So

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Speaker 1: there's something about someone who studies and teaches and rights

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Speaker 1: on focus with the condition that says he can't do it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I was never medicated um and and

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Speaker 1: did well in school, but had challenges around focus. I've

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Speaker 1: always been challenged aro on focus while at the same

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Speaker 1: time being capable of really zooming in and focusing on

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Speaker 1: things that are interesting to me. But it was in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven that I branched off and started my

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Speaker 1: own communications consultancy and was truly doing what I love.

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Speaker 1: Like it was it was fulfilling my dream and it

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Speaker 1: was going well. But for the first time ever, I

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Speaker 1: would look up and I would have fifteen emails I

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Speaker 1: had started. I'd have two major projects that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: get finished. I couldn't figure out how to get to

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Speaker 1: the bank, and the hundreds of things coming at me

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Speaker 1: made me feel just completely overwhelmed. And and that's what

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Speaker 1: started the journey from it being a personal thing to saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is so painful. I mean, They're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: move in with my parents or or I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: to get on top of it. And and so it

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Speaker 1: never was intended originally to be something that I I

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Speaker 1: did as my full focus. But what ends up happening

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Speaker 1: is I'm I'm speaking and working with clients on the

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Speaker 1: other side of attention, how do you get people's attention?

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Speaker 1: And the more and more consistent theme was it turns

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Speaker 1: out everyone is struggling. It's not just the people that

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Speaker 1: were diagnosed as a kid. And so it started there

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Speaker 1: and and seven years later that's all I've been working on.

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Speaker 1: So really it kind of begun out of this inability

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Speaker 1: to kind of focus your own attention and then your life.

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Speaker 1: And and then you did did do? You start to

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Speaker 1: do a lot of research, I guess, and and then

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Speaker 1: it led you down this path of just kind of

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is a bigger problem than I

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Speaker 1: thought it was. Yeah, it was. It was dual layered

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Speaker 1: in the sense that the first step anyone goes to

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Speaker 1: when they hear about I'm distracted is you jump into

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Speaker 1: the self help productivity world. And so my first aim

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Speaker 1: was to do this, you know, perfectly efficient life in

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Speaker 1: every capacity. And what I quickly realized is that there's

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Speaker 1: this conversation occurring about how we feel distracted, overwhelmed. Then

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Speaker 1: there's this future version of us that we think we're

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Speaker 1: capable of, that set these highly unrealistic goals and and

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Speaker 1: you know what, I were really hit me was I

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Speaker 1: started asking the question, you know, is there something wrong

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Speaker 1: with the way that we're even approaching these questions and

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Speaker 1: the way that we're thinking about attention. And so it

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Speaker 1: was then that I started to say, Okay, there's actual,

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Speaker 1: real solutions when we understand the parameters of what it

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Speaker 1: is that actually um the way the way the human

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Speaker 1: brain is wired to have our attention captured and directed,

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Speaker 1: and and what the consequences are when we're out of control.

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Speaker 1: It's something that was born out of necessity, or is

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Speaker 1: what I'm hearing, and kind of dove into it some more.

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Speaker 1: I was hoping that you're going to say that you

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Speaker 1: kind of were distracted from doing something else that you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to have been doing. It's like I got one

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Speaker 1: on this tangent and look it took off. Well, why

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Speaker 1: am I distracted? Right now? Let me look? Let me

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Speaker 1: let me look that up on Wikipedia. Well, like, how

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Speaker 1: big of a problem is this? Like how much time

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Speaker 1: do we lose from our days because of our inability

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Speaker 1: to focus? Well, you know, there's there's a number of

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Speaker 1: ways that we um. We research and look at the

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Speaker 1: metrics and and I can give you several of them.

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Speaker 1: So on average, texts are received within three minutes of

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Speaker 1: her seat, Emails that are pushed to a device or

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Speaker 1: arena read within six seconds of her seat. Now it's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: We're interrupted every two to three minutes. We check our

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Speaker 1: phones eighty five times a day. We spend three point

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Speaker 1: one hours of our time at work just on email.

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Speaker 1: And and you know when we see, like, what is

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Speaker 1: the cost of that of our time is spent just

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Speaker 1: trying to comb through data that we don't have the

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Speaker 1: ability to process. And so when you look at that

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Speaker 1: from an economic standpoint, that's about nine get this number

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Speaker 1: billion dollars as a cost to the economy. So there's

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Speaker 1: I can give several other when we think about it

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Speaker 1: from a macro standpoint, But from an individual standpoint, I

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Speaker 1: think it's more in the it's in the deep category

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Speaker 1: of of felt loss and unrealized opportunity. Because focus, by

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Speaker 1: its nature, if if you want to be excellent in anything,

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Speaker 1: it requires focus. If if you want to have deep relationships,

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Speaker 1: it requires undivided attention. I mean, name something that is

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Speaker 1: is that is about actually having the deepest things that

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Speaker 1: we really want, and it requires the ability to have

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Speaker 1: our attention in one place at the expense of everything else,

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Speaker 1: and distraction robs us from that. Yeah, and that's a

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Speaker 1: really good point. Yeah, the bigger things that we want

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Speaker 1: to accomplish often distraction is kind of what's getting in

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Speaker 1: the way of us actually being able to jump on

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Speaker 1: them to make them happen, and so they they reside

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Speaker 1: in the back of our mind like that that'd be

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Speaker 1: nice to get to but we never do because we

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Speaker 1: have this inability to focus. Yeah. And the unrealization though,

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Speaker 1: like that feels like disappointment, right, Like like when you

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Speaker 1: said that, Kurt, I was just like, yeah, Like, that's

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Speaker 1: that crappy feeling I have when I realized that that

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Speaker 1: thing that I say is important to me, that that

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Speaker 1: doesn't get done. Yeah, And that's that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: bummer feeling, it's. Yeah. So, Kurt, in your opinion, is

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Speaker 1: distraction mostly a new phenomenon or it kind of feels

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Speaker 1: like in my mind that we're in this kind of

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Speaker 1: new era of focus impairment. Where are you coming down

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Speaker 1: on that? Yeah? Yeah, So there's there's several ways to

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Speaker 1: think about it at the base level, and it depends

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Speaker 1: on how you define distraction. So I often joke some

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Speaker 1: people would say there were no distractions in the world

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Speaker 1: until a man came down from a mountain and delivered

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Speaker 1: to us. Tap is right, Which has that been points

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Speaker 1: in history, but clearly not the answer. So here's the

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Speaker 1: old the base system of attention in your brain. Like

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Speaker 1: human the human brain is wired primarily to seek out

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Speaker 1: new and fascinating and interesting things. We are wired for curiosity.

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Speaker 1: We're wired to be explorers too, Like we enter in

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Speaker 1: you know this, your babies and and the world. Everything

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Speaker 1: is new, and so we go and we explore, which

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Speaker 1: is actually what some people mean when they say they're distracted.

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Speaker 1: I keep being interested in new things. It's like, actually,

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Speaker 1: that's a human thing. So in that sense, that's always

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Speaker 1: been the case, and it's not a bad thing. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, one of the biggest things I always want

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Speaker 1: to remind people is are your is your model? Right? Here?

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Speaker 1: Are you? Are you seeking to be something that you're

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Speaker 1: not wired to be? Um, you're not very good as

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Speaker 1: a machine. But but here's the here's the shift for

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Speaker 1: that I think is really important to understand is, Um,

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Speaker 1: what technology has done is it has granted us access

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Speaker 1: to the infinite and so we've we've gone from a

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Speaker 1: world where our attention and focus was really quite limited

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Speaker 1: and bound by the spaces we occupy, by the communities,

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Speaker 1: a very small community of people, to a world where

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Speaker 1: we have everything available all the time, and our human

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Speaker 1: curiosity says we have to explore it. And so what

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Speaker 1: that means is we end up in a spot where

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Speaker 1: what was a natural human wiring is actually working significantly

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Speaker 1: against us, to the point that we are now what

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Speaker 1: we call distracted, which is really confusion about what deserves

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Speaker 1: our attention in a world where like everything is available

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Speaker 1: to us. So would you say that like years ago,

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Speaker 1: in kind of older cultures, even even years ago, that

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Speaker 1: basically the amount of distractions we had available to us,

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Speaker 1: We're just we're finite. There were just a few, and

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Speaker 1: they were probably less harmful at the same time, and

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Speaker 1: now we just have infinite distractions that we just can

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Speaker 1: easily pursue. That's exactly right. And and then I'll just

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Speaker 1: add one more layer between back then and now is

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Speaker 1: until about a hundred years ago, the people you lived with,

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Speaker 1: where the people you worked with, where the people you

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Speaker 1: did everything with. And why that really matters is because

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Speaker 1: if I live in a single community and I'm in

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Speaker 1: charge of let's say hunting and someone tries to distract

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Speaker 1: me from hunting, and no one eats. So there was

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Speaker 1: like there was a built in incentive to actually allow

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Speaker 1: and almost force people to focus on their part in

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Speaker 1: what the whole team needs. Well, now, like we're so

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Speaker 1: broadly connected, we have dozens of communities were associating with,

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Speaker 1: but none of those communities have any consequence if they

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Speaker 1: distract us from someone else. And so you add in

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Speaker 1: that layer, and what you end up with is the

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Speaker 1: people that need your attention, that you care the most

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Speaker 1: about actually become your biggest enemies of of focus. Like

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Speaker 1: they they there's an expectation that you should give your

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Speaker 1: attention to them at the very moment that it needs

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Speaker 1: to be elsewhere. And so now there's dual layers of

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Speaker 1: challenge on that. Essentially there's no more accountability, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's no one to answer to quite as much. Right

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Speaker 1: if if someone is depending on you for food, I mean,

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Speaker 1: now it's just your boss. And I'm sure bosses are

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Speaker 1: are fighting that the fact that they don't know or

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Speaker 1: or they're having a tough time measuring what employees are

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Speaker 1: are able to actually get done. Right, that's right, And

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Speaker 1: we still live on these outdated ideas of things like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this happens if if if you work in

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Speaker 1: a larger historic organization, it's nearly to a t that

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Speaker 1: loyalty and responsibility. Are you a part of the team,

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Speaker 1: are you doing your job? Is? Is is equated with

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Speaker 1: how quickly you respond? So responsiveness is actually it's like

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Speaker 1: there's a built in incentive to that says you should

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Speaker 1: be distracted, but you should be focused. And and unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: in today's world, when everyone has access to everyone all

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Speaker 1: the time, the clear syndicator that you aren't focused is

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Speaker 1: if you're immediately responsive to everything. M yeah, that's so true.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about multitasking for a little bit, right. We

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Speaker 1: often see these quick articles explaining how we're terrible multitaskers,

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Speaker 1: right and we shouldn't be doing that at all. But

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Speaker 1: you say in your book that that is not entirely true.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain why it is that we can multitask? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a classic. We love these like simple headlines.

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Speaker 1: Tasking is a myth you should do one thing at

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Speaker 1: a time. I'm like, how's that working out for people?

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Speaker 1: How does that working out? Here's why, here's why that's

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Speaker 1: a that's an impossible standard. It's an impossible standard because, um,

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Speaker 1: if you only do one thing at a time, then

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Speaker 1: if you're focused on let's go back to the olden days.

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Speaker 1: If you're focused on fishing and an alliance coming to attack,

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Speaker 1: you guess what's going to happen. You're dying. You don't

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Speaker 1: make it. This is bad news. So you have that

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Speaker 1: purple vision, you know, that's right. Yeah, So the truth

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Speaker 1: is it depends on the tasks. There are some tasks

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Speaker 1: that you can do together. There's some tasks you can't,

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Speaker 1: and you need to just know what the consequences are.

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Speaker 1: So we call these like full focused tasks. If it

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Speaker 1: involves language, you can't do it two things at the

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Speaker 1: same time. You can't read a book and watch a show,

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Speaker 1: or you know, read Twitter or social media while watching

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Speaker 1: a show. Even though of us while watching TV actively

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Speaker 1: the seeing device, that's neither here nor there. Um, you

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Speaker 1: know we've all felt that. And here's what happens when

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Speaker 1: we try to do that. There's what we call re

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Speaker 1: orienting tax. So we're flipping back and forth and that

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Speaker 1: means that we're on average. It depends on how different

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Speaker 1: the task are. But we're slower. We don't feel it,

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Speaker 1: but we're less slower. The quality of the work goes

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Speaker 1: way down. Harvard NBA's when adding arithmetic basic arithmetic to

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Speaker 1: an essay assignment, the quality of the essay went down

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Speaker 1: to a second grader's level. We lose our most connection

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Speaker 1: with the work. And so that's why people say you

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Speaker 1: can't multitask, because if you can't do an email while

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Speaker 1: being in a meeting, now, why why would we do it?

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Speaker 1: Here's the reason. Um, the more tired we are, the

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Speaker 1: more we need external stimulation. And so you know, you

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Speaker 1: see me on a plane after I've done a full

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Speaker 1: day program with a client or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: I'm probably going to have a comedy on my iPad

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be responding to emails from my inbox.

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Speaker 1: And the truth is, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: digest all of the comedy. And I'm also uh not

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Speaker 1: gonna write great emails. These are not gonna be poems.

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Speaker 1: There's on poetry. These aren't mission critical, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do it slower. But the more tired we are, the

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Speaker 1: more we need a little background noise. And so as

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Speaker 1: long as I realized that I'm not gonna write my

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Speaker 1: next book while doing that, It's okay, And so we

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Speaker 1: just didn't know the cost. And then I'll add one

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Speaker 1: more piece to this multitasking. There's actually some tasks that

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Speaker 1: you can do that facilitate your capacity to do them well.

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Speaker 1: The concept is called soft fascination. That basically what happens

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Speaker 1: is if we have a little background noise, then what

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Speaker 1: it does is it ignites what we call the inhibitory

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Speaker 1: system of our brain, saying, oh, we have to block

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Speaker 1: everything out. So why is why do some people like

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Speaker 1: to work in coffee shops there's a little background noise.

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Speaker 1: Why do we listen to music without words? Because it

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Speaker 1: actually can facilitate our ability to focus. Why do I

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Speaker 1: love to listen to podcasts or audio books while I'm

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Speaker 1: cleaning dishes Because cleaning dishes doesn't take a lot of

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Speaker 1: active attention and I can then focus on my audio

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Speaker 1: book Otherwise I'll go crazy. So it's just understanding what

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Speaker 1: you compare and what you can't that's really helpful. Man Hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to get a little personal here, Kurt. You

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Speaker 1: personally as a working adult, where have you had the

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Speaker 1: hardest time keeping focused in avoiding distraction and maybe it's

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Speaker 1: not even just a particular area of your life, but

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Speaker 1: maybe it was kind of an era of your life,

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Speaker 1: Like was there a specific time in your life where, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned kind of the beginning and when

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Speaker 1: you got into kind of thinking about focus. Was that

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Speaker 1: the hardest time in your life that you you had

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Speaker 1: focusing or what's it? What's it been for you? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: A great question. I would say There's two ways that

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Speaker 1: I would would answer that, and the first one is

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Speaker 1: exactly the period you just mentioned. It was at that

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Speaker 1: moment when it was the volume of small tasks that

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur has to do that left me overwhelmed. Now,

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Speaker 1: I say this with a caveat because I had a

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Speaker 1: job working at a talent agency doing speechwriting and speech coaching,

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Speaker 1: and the truth is I didn't work much than either,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I did enough to get my job done.

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Speaker 1: I think basic premise of the first part of my

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Speaker 1: book is that people aren't working and it's time to

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Speaker 1: stop acting like everyone's overworked, like they're overwhelmed. They're not overworked.

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Speaker 1: But it was at the moment I started my business

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Speaker 1: that no longer could I shield myself under a structure

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Speaker 1: that that actually didn't demand or reward focused effort. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, that was definitely the period. And then the

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Speaker 1: other side of that is today, I would say that

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Speaker 1: as work has gotten busier and we've seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of growth, that it's a different struggle with focus in

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Speaker 1: the sense that it's just the number of tasks and um,

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Speaker 1: I'm I am, by every measure at this point quite focused.

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Speaker 1: But where I'll get stuck is that when I know

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Speaker 1: there's so much coming at me that I'll end up

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Speaker 1: looping and and like looping back to like, let's just

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Speaker 1: make sure I know what my to do list is

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Speaker 1: in my prioritized list, It's like do I have everything?

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Speaker 1: And so it's it's like an efficient focused distraction because

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Speaker 1: I'm not actually doing the work I'm I'm I'm listing

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Speaker 1: what I need to do, like triple checking stuff. That's right. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean that almost makes sense there, right, because you're

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Speaker 1: almost like you're overly focused on the system and the

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Speaker 1: process and you want to make sure it's working as

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Speaker 1: efficiently as possible. But at the same time, that keeps

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Speaker 1: you from doing the true work, like that deep work

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Speaker 1: that that you actually want to get stuff done. I

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Speaker 1: can totally relate with that with the I've never used

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Speaker 1: that term looping, but uh I loop a lot. Cool, awesome. Well,

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Speaker 1: we want to ask you a little bit more. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna dive into kind of that responsiveness that we feel

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Speaker 1: that we owe to the people that are pinning us,

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Speaker 1: whether it's text messages or emails, and we also kind

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Speaker 1: of want to get into technology and how that impacts

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Speaker 1: our ability to focus, but then also the positive side

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Speaker 1: that technology can offer to helping us focus better. And

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Speaker 1: we'll get to some of that stuff right after this break.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back from the break and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about staying focused with Kurt Steinhorst and Kurt, let's lie

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Speaker 1: back into it. Man. There are some areas in our

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Speaker 1: life that were we to be a bit more proactive

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Speaker 1: and how we manage them, that we would see a

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Speaker 1: significant improvement in our ability to focus and to get

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Speaker 1: work done right. One of these areas is the space

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Speaker 1: where we work. So let me give a personal example.

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Speaker 1: For a number of years, my full time office was

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Speaker 1: a desk in my bedroom. Not ideal. Yeah, after reading

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Speaker 1: your book, I can see the faults there, But can

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Speaker 1: you explain to us why this is a terrible idea. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I can explain very simply why that's a terrible idea. Well,

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Speaker 1: and first I should say I think every one of

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Speaker 1: the strategies that I would recommend involves doing things that

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Speaker 1: actually make it easier, not harder, Because any advice that's

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Speaker 1: like you need to do twenty more things in order

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Speaker 1: to save your attention is like, well, you're exasperating the

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Speaker 1: one thing you have the least of I can't get focused.

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Speaker 1: So how am I gonna have to do all these

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Speaker 1: hard things to get focused? Right? A couple of easy

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Speaker 1: things knocked down? That's right? Yeah, that set realistic. So

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Speaker 1: space is a really great place that you can either

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Speaker 1: have your brain and your attention working for you or

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Speaker 1: against you. It's that simple. The largest neural connection and

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Speaker 1: your brain between short term and long term memory is spatial.

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Speaker 1: What that means is that where you are says based

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Speaker 1: on what you've done in that space in the past.

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Speaker 1: It tells you what you should do, and we like

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Speaker 1: to take the path of least resistance. And so what

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Speaker 1: makes today so hard is that technology is agnostic to space.

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Speaker 1: You can be anywhere and do anything right. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to be in a place to do this particular thing.

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Speaker 1: I can be in on a beach and working. I

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Speaker 1: can be in my bedroom and working right. I can

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Speaker 1: be at work not working right. But what it has

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Speaker 1: it is convinced us of is that the better to

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Speaker 1: be able to do all these things everywhere. And in

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Speaker 1: the process it's made us failed to understand that it

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Speaker 1: has confused the cues in our brain as to what

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Speaker 1: we should do in particular places. And so really simple

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Speaker 1: way to start letting your brain work for you is

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Speaker 1: just is to um select a few particular areas where

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Speaker 1: the tasks and the work that you do are set

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Speaker 1: aside for that work. Like and I'm not saying everything like, look,

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Speaker 1: I'll get done with work, we'll put the kids to bed.

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Speaker 1: My wife and I have a routine. We talk, we

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Speaker 1: catch up on the day, and then you know, I'll

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Speaker 1: open up my computer on the couch and and I'll

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Speaker 1: send some emails. But the key is I have a vault.

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Speaker 1: I have a spot in my house and a spot

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Speaker 1: at work where I'm not going to be on my device,

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Speaker 1: where I'm gonna do the most important deep thinking that

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Speaker 1: I have to do in order to be successful. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's just picking those and really for any community,

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Speaker 1: any group of people that you care about, you need

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Speaker 1: to have a sacred places where we're satisfied, like the

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Speaker 1: dinner table. We're not gonna be on our devices because

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be here the you know, whatever they are.

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Speaker 1: And then invest. We're always thinking about saving money, but

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Speaker 1: one of the best things you can do is invest

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Speaker 1: to make that place really great, like make it visually

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Speaker 1: better than your phone. We have an upstairs game room

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Speaker 1: that has Star Wars and board games on the walls.

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Speaker 1: And it's because we decided that, you know, even though

430
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 1: it's the evening and we're tired if we're not careful,

431
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: Pepper Pig is a really great babysitter um and and

432
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: we wanted to have a place where we've had games

433
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: for the kids, but also where we'd rather sit than

434
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 1: sit in front of just the TV. And so it's

435
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: actually better, like we enjoy it. It's not oh, i

436
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: gotta stop watching TV. I gotta stop beyond my device.

437
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit here board like make a space that's

438
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: really awesome. Yeah, creating that better alternative. I love that.

439
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: It's great advice. And so, Kurt, this might be a

440
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: weird question. What would you do if you have a

441
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: space that you have to work in, but you've kind

442
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: of muddled those lines. Like let's say you're supposed to

443
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: get worked on in your office, but watched a lot

444
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: of YouTube cap videos while you're working, or you've kinda

445
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: Facebook far too often in that office. Like, how can

446
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: you like almost like cleanse your relationship to that space? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

447
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: what can you do? Yeah? Two things? The first is

448
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: every office is different. Some people your backs against the wall,

449
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: and what I would say is find a different place

450
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: to at least pull away for short periods to it,

451
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: to assess and prioritize. Pause. This has priorities. Okay, now

452
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: with that in mind, this can happen to all of us.

453
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: I will never forget. I um, when I was in

454
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: the middle of writing my book, I have this spot

455
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: that I did that at, and um, but it's Tuesday

456
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 1: is Fantasy football waiver wire day, and all of a sudden,

457
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: like I'm checking it and so rather than feeling guilty,

458
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: I just said, hey, for the next week, if I

459
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: want to do that, I'm just gonna have to get

460
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: up and at least walk into the other room. And

461
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: so like it was, it was like a low barrier.

462
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: You have permission to do that anytime you want, just

463
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: literally walk ten steps. And so that's what I would

464
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: say is is whatever place that you have to do

465
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: the certain types of work, probably you don't want to do.

466
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: The things that you're doing on accident. They're just at

467
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: a seven day rule that says I'm going to do

468
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: it in a very convenient next spot, but not this

469
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: one in particular. Well, I like what you said. They're

470
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: about creating that barrier too, because even though it's not

471
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: crazy difficult, it's still something that you have to do

472
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: that separates you from that space. Right. It's it's still

473
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: not as easy as at least on for Mac users,

474
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: hitting hitting command tab and just like flipping over to

475
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: the next window and checking the email or checking the message,

476
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: or or hopping on Slack or something like that. That's

477
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: really easy to do. And I find myself doing that

478
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: even subconsciously without even realizing at times. It's like a

479
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: muscle movement, which exactly it's it's muscle memory. But removing

480
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: that where you actually have to do something novel. I mean,

481
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: I think that's that's so powerful, and not only does

482
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: it cause you like I think it would give me

483
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: pause to actually do that, but it would also instead

484
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: cause me to think I don't actually need to do that. Instead,

485
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: I want to continue to stay focused on what I

486
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: truly need to get done. That's right, that's right, and

487
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: I will will say. The other side of this coin

488
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: is and it moves into technology, but space and technology

489
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: so interwoven, like we want to find ways that those

490
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: things don't interrupt us. Right, It's there's you know, two

491
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 1: ways of being interrupted. One is self interruption, right that

492
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: we oh, random idea I want to come back, and

493
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: that's the cues in space. Like last time I was here,

494
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: I checked this here, and so for that we just

495
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: have to set a little hard rule that says we'll

496
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: make it a little bit more difficult. We can use

497
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: technology to cut it off, or we can just like

498
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: make this space fun. Um. But then there's this other

499
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: side it is, and it's how do we turn things off,

500
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: create barriers so that the things that we actually wouldn't

501
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: even had to remotely thought of don't come in and

502
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: demand our attention. It's like, um, if you want to

503
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: if you want to take your vitamins, have them out

504
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: in the place where you need to take where you're

505
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 1: gonna be at the moment you need to take them.

506
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: If you don't want to eat the Halloween candy, then

507
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: don't have it in the center of the kitchen table

508
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: which you walk by every single time. Like it's really simple.

509
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, eat the candy if you want it,

510
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: but just make sure you have to think about it

511
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: rather than yelling at you. Yeah. So, so on that note,

512
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: with technology, you've talked about, how you know, obviously there

513
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: are a lot of issues with technology. Technology is one

514
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: of our biggest obstacles to actually focusing well. But on

515
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: the flip side, technology can actually help us improve our focus.

516
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: So so how do we implement technology into our lives

517
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: so that it's almost like a boon to our ability

518
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: to focus? Yeah, a great question. So there's a couple

519
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: of ways that this can work, and I should say

520
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: it starts with rejecting a fundamental premise and assumption that

521
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: people have around technology, which is that technologies job is

522
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: to keep you informed on everything all the time. Like

523
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: their job is to bring everything to you, and you're

524
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: supposed to filter. And so that's like the hidden hidden ideas,

525
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: like you drive by this play, we're gonna remind you

526
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: haven't been here. We're gonna remind you because you need

527
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: the information and you get filtered. Look what technology does

528
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: when we do it well now, is it filters for

529
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: you so that what gets to you is actually what

530
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: deserves your attention. That's the big pivot. And that means

531
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: we have to set some we have we have to

532
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: use programs and uh and and I'll give you a

533
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 1: few that will actually keep things from getting to you.

534
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: So um, a few. Let's look at our inbox. I

535
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: love occasionally getting a good coupon from J Crew. I

536
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: don't need that your bond at two pm on Wednesday, right,

537
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: And so I have a program called unrolled Me, Unrolled

538
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: up me. I get nothing from them, but they roll

539
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: up all those emails and help me on subscribe with

540
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: one click rather than like six steps where they say

541
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: tell me why you hate us? And I hate you?

542
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: You know, like and and so um. That means once

543
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: a day I get like every one of those that

544
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: I really want, and it makes it easy to get

545
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: rid of it. Another way that technology can help us

546
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: is increasingly, you know, the the features of the phone

547
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: own the idea of them telling you every week how

548
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: much screen time you've had that is Uh, that doesn't

549
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: help at all the metrics because it doesn't tell you

550
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: what you did with that. Yeah, it's like I feel guilty,

551
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: but it turns out like a lot of times we

552
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: should be on our devices if we're doing an email

553
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: or if it's something important, but on your device, like

554
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: go into settings, go to notifications and turn off every

555
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: notification that you don't want to get. Don't feel guilty

556
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: about the ones you want to get. If it's not

557
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: from a human, it's a good sign you should turn

558
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: it off. Odds are if you turn off my message

559
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: or WhatsApp or whatever program you do. When people are

560
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: concerned that they may miss a message, they go check

561
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: it as much as if they if it's pushed to

562
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: them as a general role and so um. Yeah, so

563
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: you want to create filters, like rather than go to

564
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: Twitter to or whatever source, Like I gotta check the

565
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: news all the time, Like, find a daily newsletter that

566
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: you actually trust to filter for you. So it's about

567
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: finding the the ways that technology can provide you all

568
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: the information you want in a format that doesn't take

569
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: your constant searching or constant interruption. Yeah, I feel like

570
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: so often we use technology to to get the new

571
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: and cool thing that we can receive. But we don't. Yeah,

572
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: like you said, we don't take that technology and turn

573
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: it on its head and use it to to limit

574
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: what we are consuming and what we're taking in in

575
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: curt something else, use it too. I mean essentially you're

576
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about how we can use technology as a

577
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: tool and how it's not inherently evil, right, And that

578
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: this makes me think about how we often talk about money,

579
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: because I think some folks think about money as this

580
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: terrible thing and they see that, oh, if I can

581
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: get more of it, then it's going to fix everything. Right.

582
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: That's not actually the case. Right. If if you're terrible

583
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: with your money and you get a lot more of it,

584
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: well you're just going to continue to be bad with

585
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: your money, but just at a larger scale. Hence the

586
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: example every lottery winner every basically exactly. But but using

587
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: it as a tool takes being proactive, and it sounds

588
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: like that with technology there's a very similar relationship that

589
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: we can have. Yeah, totally. I think the I see

590
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: two habits or to two perspectives that are equally destructive,

591
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: which is there is the loud voice, the loud community

592
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: of you know, technologies gaming you. You're a victim. You're

593
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: incapable of restraint. You're the equivalent of monkey who is

594
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: going to do whatever the technology tells you. And so

595
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of gloom and doom about that. And

596
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: then you ask the people that are making those statements, um,

597
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: what device they're using, and they're gonna pull out their

598
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: iPhone so they don't believe that. And then there's this

599
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: other group that thinks technology is the answer to everything.

600
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: And here's the problem with that. You can't solve I'll

601
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: make a real practical You can't solve the problem of

602
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: your inbox with technology. And the reason is because the

603
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: people that send you mission critical messages from work also

604
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: send you funny cat videos, you know what I mean.

605
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: So these are these are human decisions that have you made.

606
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: And by the way, um, when when we attempt to

607
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: make technology increasingly efficient, so you know, you gotta get

608
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: to inbox zero, right, that's the goal. We gotta be

609
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: extremely efficient with our with our email. All that does

610
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: is it just makes us have higher volume and we're

611
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: still overwhelmed. So that's not a solution either. Um. Instead,

612
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: the real solution is to start with the premise of saying, Okay,

613
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: so what is the what what is worth my attention?

614
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: And how can I relate to technology in a way

615
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: that it it spotlights and brings to my attention what

616
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: I do care about and it keeps the crap away

617
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: from me that will distract me from what actually matters.

618
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: We touched on this a little bit earlier on about

619
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: that kind of feeling that we have in this just

620
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: kind of the current state of affairs in our country

621
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: of this need to be constantly accessible. A lot of

622
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: us in our job we feel like if we're not

623
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: checking our email every thirty minutes or every hour, that

624
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: we're going to miss something that's hypocritical that needs to

625
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: be responded to immediately. So, like, in your opinion, how

626
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: do we actually balance that need, that feeling inside that

627
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: we have to be responsive to the people that are

628
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: begging for our attention the email, via text, whatever it is.

629
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: With that kind of need to be able to get

630
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: off the grid and to be able to focus on

631
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: something for an extended period of time, how do we

632
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: kind of resolve that conflict in our minds. So you

633
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: nailed it by saying the first step is you have

634
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: to resolve in your mind to realize, like, there's something

635
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: wrong with that equation. And it makes perfect sense when

636
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: we understand human biology. Um, we survived as social animals,

637
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: which means that we if attention is is the measure

638
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: of what we value, right, we give our attention to

639
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: what we we care about. That's why we're so offended

640
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: when people don't give us their attention, Like that's why

641
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: I was i'ming a conversation. Some whe looks at their phone.

642
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: They're like, that's a generational thing. No, it's not like

643
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: everyone in all of history has been offended when someone

644
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: says you're not worth my attention, you know what I mean.

645
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: So if we understand that basic premise, the question is

646
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: how do we turn the relationships that are actually driving

647
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: that from being one of enemies for each other's attention

648
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: to actually being allies. And and this is this the

649
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: most critical step. You simply can't get focused if you

650
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: think it's an individual sport. Focus has never been a

651
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: one man game, like it only occurs in the context

652
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: like the fundamentals of attention is that it's largely what

653
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: we pay attention to is what other people tell us matters,

654
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: like that's how it works. And so simple way to

655
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: do this is, I know not everyone's in a position

656
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: where they feel like they can do this if they

657
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: have a boss. Look, there's some people you don't have

658
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: control over, but the truth is if you don't have

659
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: control over them, then they're they're responsible for your effective

660
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: use of attention and they don't want you to waste

661
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: it either. And so we we recommend just really simple.

662
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: Once a year, have a meeting with the people you love,

663
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: like I we do a family and then we do

664
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: a team meeting. And because that's majority of interruptions happened

665
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: from the same people, everyone talks about the random other

666
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: my client, come on, it's it's you, resually the same people,

667
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: and we just sit down. We have some basic questions like, hey,

668
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: what are the expectations of response time? Here's a good one,

669
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: a really good one. What channel are we using when

670
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: we have an emergency? And and why that matters is

671
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: because now if I know, like in our with our team,

672
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: phone calls are the only emergency, and so base Camp

673
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: wease that our email, um none of those things. I

674
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: never have to worry that like I'm missing an emergency

675
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: and I have to check it because I know if

676
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: it's a real emergency, then my my risk is going

677
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: to vibrate because I use I have an Apple Watch

678
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: and everything else is okay. Yeah, I think that's so important, right,

679
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: Like you're essentially creating rules as to how it is

680
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: that you all are going to communicate with each other.

681
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: I only allow Matt to communicate to me be a

682
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: smoke signal. That's during the day. If he wants to

683
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: get my attention, that's how he's got to do it. Well,

684
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: originally it was my Space. Uh, that's just back and forth,

685
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: but we've we've evolved to the more hipster smokes. I

686
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: think that the developers stopped updating my Bay so it

687
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: became unusable. Kurt, So you have a you have a

688
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: family at home, right Joe and I we we've got

689
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: kids as well. You know, especially for for folks like us,

690
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: finding like a work life balance is tough. So we're

691
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: excited to hear your thoughts on that as well as

692
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: hearing some simple steps that we can take to stay focused.

693
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to those right after the break. Alright, well,

694
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: back from the break, we're talking with Kurt stein Horse.

695
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: We're talking about focus and Kurt, we've been discussing how

696
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: distractions can decrease our productivity at work, but let's talk

697
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: a little bit more about how our personal relationships, well,

698
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: they can suffer too, right, And and this concept of

699
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: work life balance has been talked about a lot from

700
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: a lot of different angles. But do you think that

701
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: work life balance is achievable or should we kind of

702
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: be actually framing it differently in order to understand and

703
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: aim for that better. Yeah, the chapter in my book

704
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: on this is called the Balance Myth, So I certainly

705
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: have an opinion on it. I think it's important to

706
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: realize the context for how long we've been attempting this,

707
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: this notion of work life balance. About a hundred years

708
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: ago was the first time that, with the rise of

709
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: the car, that the people we live with for different

710
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: than the people we worked with. And that's when this

711
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: idea of like balancing these two communities had to come

712
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: into play. And and so what happens now is as

713
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: we continue to do that, like hard divisions are no divisions,

714
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: and and in every one of these cases there's a

715
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,919
Speaker 1: failure to recognize what what people actually need and what's

716
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: realistic and what the benefits of technology are, And one

717
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: of the best things I can do is I can

718
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: leave work earlier and and get home to my family

719
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: because I can send an email while I'm home. That's amazing.

720
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: On the other hand, if I'm not careful, I can

721
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: rush home at eighty miles while texting on the way

722
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: home to get home to kids who love me, who

723
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: three minutes and I'm ignoring because someone needs something somewhere.

724
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: And the better way to approach this on a high

725
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: level we call it work life integration. Um. Different people

726
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: have different needs when it comes to work life quote unquote.

727
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: Balance the notion that you work too much, you're a workaholic,

728
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: you need to stop working and watch a Netflix show

729
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: in the evening, like as if that has value. Right.

730
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: So the key here is to say, if it's a

731
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: community of people that deeply matters to me, do I

732
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: have a place and time where they get all of me?

733
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: That's the question. And so there's a lot of in

734
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: between spaces. But for instance, with my family, from when

735
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: I walk in the door and by the way, the

736
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: only way I can walk in the door and be

737
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: fully present is by my kids not running out when

738
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: they hear the garage door and me opening my phone

739
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: and looking just to see if there's any emails, and

740
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: look at my to do list and check everything and

741
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: and make sure there's nothing I haven't accounted for. And

742
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: after I do that, I say, nothing needs my attensition now,

743
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: and I go in the house and from the time

744
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm there until the time the kids go to bed,

745
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: and then my wife and I do kind of a

746
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: debrief evening thing. That period is sacred and it's not

747
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: that long, and it makes the entire experience. And then

748
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: the phone Actually it's not next to me, because if

749
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: it was next to me, I would accidentally look at

750
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: it and and during that period, but then what happens

751
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: is I then go pick up my computer and I

752
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: start working because I actually would love to get rid

753
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: of the stuff that makes it possible for me to

754
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: have a great day the next day rather than starting overwhelmed.

755
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: Uh not, that's the perfect thing for everyone. But the

756
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: key is, um, do you do you know? And and

757
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: are you aware? And are the those people aware of

758
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: when you're not available to them and not available to

759
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: the world, so you can be fully available to to

760
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: the particular people that are with you. Because at the

761
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: end of the day, UM, we're social, right, We're wired

762
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: to want to deeply connect. And here's the deal. The

763
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: worst thing that we can do is feel guilty all

764
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: the time that we're where we are because we're either

765
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: on or devised or not. Like, maybe a simple way

766
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: to fix this is just to communicate what you're doing

767
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: on that device. And people are far less offended when

768
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: they feel like that, like, hey, I just I'm checking

769
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: to see where we're gonna eat, or hey, just gotta

770
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: call or got a text from this first, I gotta respond,

771
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: So like it solves a lot of problems because we

772
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: all live complicated lives, Like sometimes work has to happen

773
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: when I'm at home, right, but as long as the

774
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: people that are around me don't feel like I'm leaving

775
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: them for no reason, we're usually a pretty good place.

776
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: Or maybe sometimes you just gotta say I'm picking up

777
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: that backup, running back off the waiver wire. Okay, it's

778
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: not gonna last. They're the current, Like in regards to

779
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: like that work life balance, I know for me, like

780
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: it's easy for me to kind of romain a size

781
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: and strive after like this idealistic nine to five job

782
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: where I can completely turn off my like my work

783
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: brain right once the whistle blows sort of thing. But

784
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: like that's just not the world we live in today, right,

785
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: Like so much of our personal life does creep into

786
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: our and vice versa. Right, Like there are times when

787
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: we have to tend to some work related tasks after hours.

788
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: And so what I hear you saying at least is that,

789
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: like just that work life balance is not it's not

790
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: clear cut, like it's not either black or white. It's

791
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: a lot more fluid if we want to take advantage

792
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: of the conveniences that technology offers us. Right, that's right,

793
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 1: And let's go a step further here, Uh, people aren't

794
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: working more now, Like go, we do a decent amount

795
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 1: of work in agriculture, like go live on a farm,

796
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: and live on a farm, and like, oh gosh, they

797
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: needed more work life balance. Like, look, the reason that

798
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: the TV, literally the reason the TV became so popular

799
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: years ago, is because we started having so much free time.

800
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: So like we're not overworked. And in fact, let's go

801
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: like even into the research and understand that, do you know,

802
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: people are happier. The happiest we are is that when

803
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: we are in a state of flow. Fascinating sitting the

804
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: early nineties, like meaning that we are fully focused, everything disappears,

805
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: time disappears. We're happier there than we are when we're

806
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: in leisure mode. And yet we feel like there's this

807
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: model where we have to have more leisure mode. We

808
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: need more rests, but we don't need more leisure. It's

809
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: it's perfectly reasonable to say, like discipline and push and

810
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: work like that. If you don't, someone else will. Well.

811
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: It makes me think. There's this recent recent article I

812
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: read about a German company that's taking everybody in their

813
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: workforce down to a five hour work day, so every week,

814
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: everybody's working twenty five hours a week. But what happens

815
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: is that there's no social media there, there's no cell phones.

816
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: They're they're they're basically the office is trying to cater

817
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: everything towards an ability to help their employees focus and

818
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: to avoid the distractions during the work day. And a

819
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: lot of these there are a couple other examples of

820
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: companies that have done this. I believe there's like a

821
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: surfing company out in California. Maybe they did something similar.

822
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: And every time Patagonia did that, yeah, I got like

823
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: surfing breaks. Yeah, and and every time a company does

824
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: something like this, it turns out that the productivity doesn't

825
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: go down as long as at the same time, as

826
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: you lower the amount of hours that the employees are

827
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: supposed to work, you're eliminating the distractions and enhancing the

828
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: ability to focus. At the same time, it turns out

829
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 1: productivity often actually goes up. Yeah, that's right. Always available

830
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: means never fully available. And and this is the like

831
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: the incalculable, Like we can't measure the cost. What we

832
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 1: can measure is that we haven't seen any productivity gains

833
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: in the economy despite having all this incredible technology since

834
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. And so there's no productivity gains because

835
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: it turns out like always being available means always being interrupted,

836
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 1: means never getting focused work done. And you can work

837
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: very few hours and and and accomplish significantly more than

838
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: most people, um, if you really give your all in

839
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: those hours. Let's kind of talk now, where like the

840
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: rubber meets the road, right, do you have any practical

841
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: tips that our listeners could implement today in order to

842
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: be less distracted, Say, like, while they're at work, what

843
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: things can they do to allow them to focus more

844
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: and to be distracted less, like some sort of zapping

845
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: device that if they do stray right, get their attention back.

846
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: Pain is generally a great good motivator. Yeah, um, yeah,

847
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: I can give you. I'll give you several Let's just

848
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: start at the beginning of the day. Every decision you

849
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: have to make makes the next one a little bit harder.

850
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: So if you start in the middle of the day,

851
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: or start at the beginning of the day, by the

852
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: night before, having had a bunch of the early decisions

853
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: laid out for you, you'll have more capacity than you

854
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: really would otherwise. This is why you know, um, President

855
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: Obama wore the same thing every day, right, you had

856
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: a very small selection. Why Warren Buffett eats a burger

857
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: every day. Like the great thinkers who focus have the

858
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: ability to like eliminate lots of the small decisions, especially

859
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: on the front, so that's an easy one. Also, get

860
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: sleep is significant the system of the part of your

861
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: brain that actually allows for focus and overcoming interruption. It

862
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: takes far more energy resources, So the more tired you are,

863
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: the less you're gonna be able to do. This is

864
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: why at the end the night you find yourself again

865
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: looping through social media and going to new things and

866
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: like I should go to bed, but I'm going to

867
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: keep seeing what else is out there. It's because that's

868
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: more tired you are. That's the system of attention that's curious,

869
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: find new things, thing far. So, Um, that's would be

870
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: number two. Number three, start your day on your way

871
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: into work by visualizing. And I know this sounds so

872
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: cheesy even as I say it, but um, take a

873
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: couple of minutes to say, what is this great day

874
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: going to look like? Literally visualizing this is how the

875
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: day is going to go. Uh. And what that does

876
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: is it primes our brain. Two when we start to

877
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: get off it, we unconsciously move towards it back towards it.

878
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: So it's not even any active work. You don't have

879
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: to then like double stress about it. But by setting

880
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: an intention, it actually will help support that intention, and

881
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: it will allow you to more quickly identify when something

882
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: is distracting you and getting you away from that intention.

883
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: So that's the stuff I would do on the front

884
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: of the day. And then then you know, jumping into

885
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: the next one is don't let your inbox be your homescreen.

886
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: Don't let your inbox be your task list, Get out

887
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: of your inbox as much as possible, so like you

888
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: can do it. You can look at the bed of

889
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: the day. You can say, okay, I have all these

890
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: emails to do. Okay, well take them and move them

891
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: into wherever. I mean, you can use a sauna or

892
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: to doist or there's any whatever programming there. There's plenty

893
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: of ways to do this and and and actually write

894
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: those messages not in the inbox, but write them in

895
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: another system. That means that you're not because the problem

896
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 1: with an inbox is it's the cess pool of all

897
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: these divergent and unrelated ideas. Like I go back to it,

898
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I need to do this that's not

899
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: related to oh and I need to do that, and

900
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: I need to do this, and then we live in

901
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: it and we don't understand where we can't complete it.

902
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: So if we move out of the inbox, move it

903
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: into it to do list, prioritize that list by importance.

904
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 1: I have a few categories like these are the two

905
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: or the four things today that will define whether I

906
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: make it, where why I'm successful. Then I have a

907
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: laundry list of things that I just needed to get done.

908
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: And when I'm I mean quick wins, and then I

909
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: have things that if I get to them, it's a bonus.

910
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: These are really simple ways to to set yourself up

911
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: for success and to give yourself a chance to be

912
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: successful on the back end, Kurt, I got one more

913
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: question for you. When obviously this the show, we we

914
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: mostly usually talk about money, like how to get your

915
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: money game together, how to pay off that, how to

916
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: save for retirement, like how to stay focused there, and

917
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: some of these goals are really really long term. Saving

918
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: for retirement takes decades, and paying off debt if you've

919
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 1: gotten into a lot of it can take a handful

920
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: of years, can take a decade sometimes if it's that much,

921
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: if it's a bunch of student loans and a bunch

922
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: of credit cards debt that you've racked up. So so, like,

923
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 1: what advice would you give to someone trying to stay

924
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: focused over the long haul with a continued drive to

925
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: be a good saver or to be great at paying

926
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: down debt. Do you have any advice for folks like that? Yeah?

927
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: I think attention is given to what matters, and what

928
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: that means is why do we feel quote unquote distracted

929
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: because we were so inundated by all these messages all

930
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: the time that we we we lose the ability to

931
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: assess um what really matters, and so we become rudderless.

932
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: Were a raft in an ocean of distraction being pushed

933
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 1: about left and right, and and so I think when

934
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: we think about anything that involves a long term focus

935
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: of requirement, it's how do we ensure that we are

936
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: having it brought to our attention in consistent ways, that

937
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: this is what actually is worth our attention, this is

938
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: what matters. Meaning um put it really really simply is

939
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: like if you want to reduce that, you should you

940
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: This is why you should be listening to this podcast,

941
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,439
Speaker 1: because you have to constantly put that information in front

942
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: of you and it has to come to the expense

943
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: of other information. So, like what I would say is,

944
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: what if whatever my biggest goals are, how am I

945
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: digesting information that is reminding me of that on an

946
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: extent basis. So, whatever your faith is, we can all

947
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: agree that the historic Old Testament has implications across every

948
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: major religion. And there's this concept called the Chama and

949
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 1: Deuteronomy and it and it's it basically says, the first

950
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: thing that you do in the morning is is say

951
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: the Chama like um, the hero Israel, the lords of God, right,

952
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that should be yours, but

953
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: it's the first thing that someone that is a faith

954
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: should say. Is the last thing they should say is

955
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: should be painted on theirs their door frames. And what

956
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: this is pointing to is we forget and so we

957
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: need ritual and consistent reminders at every major place, key

958
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: moments in our days and and so if you want

959
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: to do it, find ways to be reminded of it.

960
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: And in long term, that's where you're gonna go. Yeah,

961
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: that's so true. Just constantly constantly reminding ourselves of that,

962
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: constantly listening to how the money is what Kurt really

963
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: said there, so exactly great advice, Kurtt. This has been

964
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: an awesome conversation. I think just the things that we've

965
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: talked about in this episode, it's going to have an

966
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: impact on folks when it comes to them just excelling

967
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: and doing just a killer job at work. Not only there,

968
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: but I just see it having an impact on people's

969
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: personal lives, right, like more present in the relationships just

970
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: just whether it be just with your friendships or with

971
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: your significant other, your kids, whatever it is man. So

972
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: all that note, we really appreciate you you joining us

973
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: for this episode. If folks want to find more information

974
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: about you, where can they go? So a few places

975
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: that you can reach me. Um, first off, if you

976
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: just want information, then the two things the book is

977
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: meant to be. It was written for people that can't

978
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: read books, and it's also available in audio, and it's

979
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: really tactical, short quick solutions on how we can get

980
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: on top of these issues. But we do a few things.

981
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: Email is a really great resource for me. So I'm

982
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: gonna give you my email, and I'm also going to

983
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: be really honest with you that So my email is

984
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: c s at focus wise dot com. Now there's someone

985
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: who check it's that email to provide basic information. If

986
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: you want something that we have a form for, do

987
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: you get it. But here's my promise, if there's a question,

988
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 1: if there's something that's more personal, it will always get

989
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: to me. I always respond. So nice. It's nice to

990
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: have filters so that the mass doesn't get to us,

991
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: so that the things that do matter actually those how

992
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: the money listeners are gonna blow up your inbox? Awesome? Well, Kurt,

993
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: this has seriously been a great conversation. Thank you so

994
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: much for for your time and attention tonight. We appreciate it. Hey,

995
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,919
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Guys. All right, man, that was a fun

996
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: conversation with Kurt. And by the way, congratulations you stayed

997
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: focused very well on that entire interview. It's proud of

998
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: you for that. Yeah, I stayed off my phone. Proud

999
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: of me. You weren't checking your Instagram. I appreciate that.

1000
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: But okay, I want to know for you, what was

1001
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: your big takeaway from that conversation. Well, I've got two

1002
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: of them, so you want to go ahead and say

1003
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: both of mine or do you want to go first?

1004
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: All right, big, big, big shot, let's do this. Come on,

1005
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: go first. Two of them. That that he mentioned that

1006
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: really stood out to me, And what he said was,

1007
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: and this is going to kind of sound weird, right,

1008
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: but he was saying that we should communicate about our

1009
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: communications it um and that really stuck out to me

1010
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: because that's not something I've ever done. It's not something

1011
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: I've ever talked with my wife about and how we

1012
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: should communicate while I'm working and you know, when she

1013
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: needs to get a hold of me. We we sort

1014
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: of know how we expect each other to respond in

1015
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: certain ways. There's an understanding, but we've never flat out

1016
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: sort of talked about it. And actually he said that

1017
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: maybe once a year you should sit down with you know,

1018
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: maybe your team or with your family, and you have

1019
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: these meetings where you discussed maybe essentially I guess what's

1020
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: working what's not working. And for you and me, buddy,

1021
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 1: like you and I, we worked together, and this isn't

1022
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: something we've ever talked about. We we communicate sometimes more

1023
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,479
Speaker 1: or less, but at times I think it's maybe easy

1024
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: for us to get frustrated if one of us is

1025
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: in the zone, right, if one of us is is

1026
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: in is in flow, and we're we're really wanting to

1027
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: get work done, and we've got email turned off, we've

1028
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: got our phone on airplane mode. If we were to

1029
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: talk about how we're going to talk, I see that

1030
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: being being real helpful for for you and me specifically

1031
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, for sure, they gets to take away

1032
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: for us to be able to communicate better by talking

1033
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: about how we want to communicate totally. So before I

1034
00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: say my second one, you go ahead and jump on

1035
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: yours in case to steal it. Alright, cool, So I

1036
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: think my big takeaway was less of thinking about work

1037
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: life balance and a little more thinking about that work

1038
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: life integration. And so something that Emily and I literally

1039
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: just instituted this past Sunday. It was kind of like

1040
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: a Sunday phone sabbath, and we we kind of heard

1041
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: this other places, but like literally taking Sunday's a good

1042
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 1: chunk of pretty much all day Sunday where the phone

1043
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: is not anywhere near us. And I think, you know,

1044
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: what Kurt said was kind of placement is key, and

1045
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: if his phone's next to him, he's going to check it.

1046
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 1: And so we've decided that, like a Sunday, Sundays are

1047
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: a great time for us to spend time as a family.

1048
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but if my phone's

1049
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: in my pocket, I'm just so much more tempted to

1050
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 1: check it. And so I think when we're talking about

1051
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: that balance, achieving that sort of balance or integration, you

1052
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: know what, I can still check my phone that night

1053
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: after I put the kids to bed or something like that,

1054
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: but if we have that full day that we get

1055
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,959
Speaker 1: to spend together where I haven't checked my phone once,

1056
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: but if I do check it and I see an

1057
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: email or a text, pops up that I feel like

1058
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: I have to respond to or whatever. It just kind

1059
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: of it changes the flow of the day with my

1060
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: fam and so for us, that's something that we're choosing

1061
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: to do that to to keep my focus too, to

1062
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: keep our focus together. And so yeah, I thought that

1063
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: was a good tip and actually something I'm trying to

1064
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: integrate like right now at this current moment. Too. Nice, dude,

1065
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, So I'll go ahead and share

1066
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: my second one, which was when he was talking about

1067
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: the space that we work in. He was talking about

1068
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: how like we should maybe invest a little bit of

1069
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: money into the space we work and have it be beautiful,

1070
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: have it be a space that we want to spend

1071
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: time in where we can be productive and don't cheap

1072
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: out on it. Yeah, and just you know, that's not

1073
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: going to give us permission to just go crazy and

1074
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: spend a ton of money, but you know, like let's

1075
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: find ways to make it an environment that we are

1076
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: are happy to be in where we can be productive.

1077
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: And aside from that, you know, what doesn't cost any

1078
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: money is just keeping a neat space. Like I'm thinking

1079
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: about times when I've been really you know where I

1080
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: felt underwater with my work. And you know what my

1081
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: desk looks underwater as well. It's just covered in papers

1082
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: and just tons of stuff that I have to get to,

1083
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: bills that I need to pay, like, there's books that

1084
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: I need to read, just stuff I need to throw

1085
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: away that's just been sitting there for weeks. Each one

1086
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: of those things I think can be a small distraction

1087
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: and something that's even though I'm not actively thinking about it,

1088
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: it's just something that kind of weighs on my mind.

1089
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: So that's something that took away as well. Awesome, that's

1090
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: very good, all right. So yeah, that the conversation with

1091
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: Kurt was really good and and his book was really

1092
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: really good too. And so we are giving away three

1093
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: copies of Kurt's book, and if you want to be

1094
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: entered to win a copy, all you have to do

1095
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: is leave a review for the show on Apple podcast

1096
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: and if you don't use an Apple device, you can

1097
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: leave one on Stitcher for the show. Once you leave

1098
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,439
Speaker 1: that review, just send an email to us at how

1099
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: to Money pod at gmail dot com let us know

1100
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: what your screen name is and that you left a review,

1101
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: and we'll enter you into the drawing and we'll announce

1102
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: those winners one week from today on the show. Yeah,

1103
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: and there's a deadline too. Let's go ahead set that deadline.

1104
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: You have until noon this Friday, so make sure you

1105
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 1: get your reviews in and send us that email before noon. Yep.

1106
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: Let's quickly talk about the beer that we had on

1107
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: the show today. We drank a nice one Jackie Oh's Quatrefoil.

1108
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: This was an Okage sour ale conditioned on apricots. What's

1109
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: your take on this one? Man? Yeah? Well, first I'll say, man,

1110
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: just it was beautiful, like when we poured it the

1111
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: what do the color of it remind you of? I'll say,

1112
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 1: like a field of golden It was really pretty. Yeah,

1113
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: it was beautiful. I'll say apricots, like like I feel

1114
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: like it had the exact color of the fruit that

1115
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: was featured in this beer. But as far as the

1116
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: flavor goes, man like, it had such a bright, acidic flavor. Um,

1117
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: they had a lot of like lemon notes, you know,

1118
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: it was really acidic, like lemon, peach, oranges had like

1119
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of those fruity acidic notes of all those

1120
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: fruits that are that tend to be I don't know,

1121
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,439
Speaker 1: like kind of the same color as apricots, right, yeah, yeah,

1122
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: everything was very blond and bright. So this was a

1123
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: blonde sour, which I personally enjoy a lot more than

1124
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: a like a darker sour. Yeah. I thought it was

1125
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: delicious and when it takes this long to make, it

1126
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: usually makes men better. This is a blend of one

1127
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: to three year old oak age sower blondel So these

1128
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: this beer is a long time in the making, which

1129
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,919
Speaker 1: often can broaden the flavors that you're gonna taste into beer.

1130
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: These beers that are aged up to three years just

1131
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,479
Speaker 1: developed so many interesting characteristics. So this was really really good. Yeah,

1132
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: I agree on acidic with like, I thought this kind

1133
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: of gentle sweetness and the apricots just shone through nicely,

1134
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: a little mouth pucker. It was just a really good

1135
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: sour beer. I enjoyed it a lot. And man, Jackieo's

1136
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: just making some really good beers. Yeah, thanks for the

1137
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: folks up there for sending this one in our away,

1138
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: so Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode. Man.

1139
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: You can find our show notes at how to money

1140
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: dot com and of course leave a review and get

1141
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: entered into this book giveaway and Matt until next time,

1142
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: best friends out, best friends out