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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Laurence Zema Comedy from the home office

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Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas, and welcome America to the greatest reality

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Speaker 1: show in the history of reality shows. Yesterday, episode one,

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Speaker 1: season one of the political reality show formerly known as VEEP.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm not sure what the new name is. Do

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Speaker 1: we have a working title for what happened yesterday? In

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Speaker 1: politics in America?

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Speaker 2: Alzi, I'm the West WTF? I don't know. Instead of

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Speaker 2: the West.

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Speaker 1: Wing, the real West Wing, it's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: the real West Wing, Real West.

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Speaker 2: Wing twenty twenty four Presidential election in America.

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Speaker 1: Waiting for them to introduce Julia Luis Dreyfus because this

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Speaker 1: has been and I don't know if there's plagiarism going

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Speaker 1: on with the producers of this new reality show, but

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Speaker 1: definitely the storyline are very closely being followed by the

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Speaker 1: seasons of VEEP. If you if you want to know

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen in American politics, just watch Veep.

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Speaker 1: It's all been it's all been done before.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend text to me and say, between

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Speaker 2: Veep and The Simpsons, we have no right to be

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Speaker 2: surprised anymore.

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Speaker 1: The Simpsons does predict, It does everything bizarrely, so.

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Speaker 2: I don't consider you know, people. I saw someone tweet

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Speaker 2: the other day like the term conspiracy theorist has gotten

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Speaker 2: to twisted, and I agree with that. I will say

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Speaker 2: it is a bit of a I would still dub

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Speaker 2: it a conspiracy theory that like there's a time traveler

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Speaker 2: who came back and wrote The Simpsons, which some people think,

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Speaker 2: but I'm starting to.

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Speaker 1: First of all, in situations like this where the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States says he's not running again, the

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Speaker 1: Internet wins immediately. It's one of the reasons why I

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Speaker 1: think SNL struggles so much, because the Internet wins so

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Speaker 1: quickly in these situations, and they have crushed it. Someone says,

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Speaker 1: been kind of funny the other day. It's like, in

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Speaker 1: this day and age of conspiracy theory is only a

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Speaker 1: theory for about forty eight hours, and now it's and

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Speaker 1: then it plays out. It has been such an interesting,

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Speaker 1: in all seriousness, historic, interesting, compelling time in the world

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Speaker 1: of politics. First and foremost, could anybody be happier than

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Speaker 1: morning shows and cable news who were all but obsolete?

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Speaker 1: I mean, these these MSNBC, Fox, CNN, doesn't matter who

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Speaker 1: you watch. All the ratings were down. Everybody was struggling.

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Speaker 1: This is the shot in the arm that they needed.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I want to get into that, But I

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Speaker 2: want to back up for a second and hit on

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Speaker 2: what you and I had talked about earlier, because you

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Speaker 2: just introduced it. But I feel like I need to

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Speaker 2: go back into interview mode with you when we were

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Speaker 2: talking about and look, we usually don't get political, and

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Speaker 2: we're not going to. I don't want to get into

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Speaker 2: policies and specifics here. I always think that you and

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Speaker 2: I give people a place where like, yes, we want

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Speaker 2: to be real and get into the reality of life.

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Speaker 2: But also there's a lot of places you can get

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Speaker 2: specifics on politics and policy where people have more expertise

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Speaker 2: than us. So that isn't really our place. But every

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Speaker 2: citizen in our country has been glued to the news.

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Speaker 2: I think, or should be. Abody's talking about it based

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Speaker 2: on what's happening, and so it's real. And what's funny

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Speaker 2: to me about the word real is you turned to

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Speaker 2: me and this is part of why we wanted to

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Speaker 2: get into it, and you said, this feels like a

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Speaker 2: reality show like it's a like the election cycle from

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Speaker 2: the assassination, attempt not to make light of that, but

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Speaker 2: that and now the Biden stepping down or stepping aside.

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Speaker 2: Some people have compared it to the West Wing. But

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Speaker 2: you said, this feels like a reality show. Why what

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Speaker 2: about it feels that way.

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Speaker 1: It feels so heavily produced, all of it, And if

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Speaker 1: you think any of this has been left up to chance,

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Speaker 1: it reminds So. I just talked to some interns at

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Speaker 1: this local production company here in Austin, and they were

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Speaker 1: asking me about the reality of reality TV. I get

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Speaker 1: this question a lot. How real is the Bachelor? How

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Speaker 1: real is this show? That show? And I said, there's

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Speaker 1: this spectrum. I always say, there's this huge spectrum. There

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Speaker 1: are shows that are one hundred percent produced. Then there's

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Speaker 1: kind of The Bachelor that's kind of in the middle

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Speaker 1: where the reality, the fish bowl environment is created. Then

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Speaker 1: you drop people into that environment. What happens within that

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Speaker 1: environment that you have one hundred percent created is the

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Speaker 1: reality of it. Then there are game shows. Then you

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Speaker 1: have to be very careful because, as I explained, there's

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Speaker 1: standards and practices and lawyers because money's involved, so.

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Speaker 2: Kind of those competition shows.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the competition shows like Dance with a Star, Survivor, etc.

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Speaker 1: You have to be very careful. Yes you want drama,

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Speaker 1: Yes you want to push those buttons, but you can

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Speaker 1: only go so far. The Bachelor there's no money on

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Speaker 1: the line. It's one of the reasons we got rid

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Speaker 1: of Bachelor Pad, where there was money involved. We wanted

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Speaker 1: to be more involved where we could push those buttons. So,

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Speaker 1: long story short, I think we're right in line with

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Speaker 1: the with what's going on here. This is being produced.

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Speaker 1: This is just a reality show. We are we're excitedly

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Speaker 1: watching this, watching the news. The news isn't in on it.

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Speaker 1: By the way, you know, we had this weird I

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Speaker 1: know technically Biden says he pulled out, but he just

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Speaker 1: there was this piece of paper that was sent without

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Speaker 1: official letterhead. It wasn't his letterhead, it wasn't the White

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Speaker 1: House letterhead. He didn't sign it. It was some electronic signature.

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Speaker 1: Then the mainstream media jumped on that. Kamala Harris is

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Speaker 1: it was really weird.

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Speaker 2: Well a lot of people. I haven't seen him right,

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Speaker 2: and I think people think that's strange. Like you and

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Speaker 2: I always go to like this doesn't pass the smell test.

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Speaker 2: The thing is, every single thing that has happened feels weird,

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Speaker 2: like the assassination attempt. Again, I'm not like a conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theorist that I think aliens are walking in human bodies

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Speaker 2: among us. Okay, but there's a difference between conspiracy theorists,

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Speaker 2: which I think a lot of people throw that term

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Speaker 2: now to get people to stop asking questions. And we

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Speaker 2: should ask questions. We should investigate. We should figure out

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Speaker 2: what happened. A presidential candidate in our country, no matter

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Speaker 2: how you feel about him, was almost shot and killed.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want to see America descend into like

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Speaker 2: Mexico that just had thirty what was it, thirty seven

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Speaker 2: people who are trying to run for president be murdered.

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Speaker 2: It's awful. So we have to investigate these things. You

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Speaker 2: have to put on a little bit of a what

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Speaker 2: are the theories hat here and ask, well, what was

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Speaker 2: this person's motivation? Why have they not found a manifesto yet?

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Speaker 2: Like that feels a little weird. Why was he apparently

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Speaker 2: in a black Rock commercial? Why you know there are

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Speaker 2: so many.

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Speaker 1: How did he get three shots off three shots?

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Speaker 2: How did a twenty year old kid buy the Where

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Speaker 2: did he get the gun? You know, there's all these

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Speaker 2: questions that we should be asking. And then I go

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Speaker 2: back too, as you were just saying, everything feels a

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Speaker 2: little weird. I didn't realize. Someone pointed out, like we

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Speaker 2: look to our own history. When Lyndon B. Johnson stepped down,

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Speaker 2: he'd give He gave a forty minute on camera addressed

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Speaker 2: to the nation.

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Speaker 1: Around the Oval office, right. It was, Yeah, there is

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Speaker 1: decorum to this there and what we've seen, sorry, what

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Speaker 1: we haven't seen is the best producing of all and

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Speaker 1: that that's why I find this very interesting and it's

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Speaker 1: very well produced. The question is who's the executive producer

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Speaker 1: or executive producers? Because you heard a lot of people

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Speaker 1: supposedly allegedly talked yesterday, although we didn't hear him, see him,

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Speaker 1: nothing official from Biden. It was all the It was

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Speaker 1: on Twitter for crying outline.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you were a producer on one of the

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Speaker 2: most successful reality shows of all time. You helped create

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Speaker 2: the reality TV world as a producer and working I

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Speaker 2: mean I know more so you worked with the people

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Speaker 2: who are really producing the show, and some things you

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Speaker 2: knew and some things you didn't. But knowing how they operate.

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Speaker 2: What about this to you feels produced?

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Speaker 1: What do you need? You need story? We have that

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Speaker 1: for days. You also need characters that were very emotionally

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Speaker 1: involved in and if those characters are rivals, all the better.

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Speaker 1: We have found out very recently Joe Biden and Barack

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Speaker 1: Obama do not like each other. There is a vitriol

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Speaker 1: there and there is a hatred that we are now

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Speaker 1: learning more and more about. That is perfect for our show.

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Speaker 1: So you have Biden desperately trying to hold onto power. Cognitively,

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Speaker 1: now we can all admit what we've known for three years,

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Speaker 1: he's not well. Then you have Barack Obama, who's allegedly

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Speaker 1: many conspiracies say he's been running it from behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: Whether this is conjecture, whether it's true. This is such

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Speaker 1: great drama. Who didn't speak yesterday? The Obamas. Then you

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Speaker 1: have this third party. You always have to have that

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Speaker 1: kind of third party, like the dark Horse enter the Clintons.

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Speaker 1: So it's such great theater and it is reality TV.

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Speaker 1: Like reality TV. We're just we're watching this, We're glued

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Speaker 1: to our seats, We're watching the news thinking that all

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Speaker 1: of this has happenstance. All of this is just happening haphazardly.

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Speaker 1: This is wild all along. Was it an accident that

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Speaker 1: this happened the day after the you know, the week

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Speaker 1: after the rn C. No, of course not. It after

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Speaker 1: the RNC so they couldn't talk about who was running.

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Speaker 1: But a month as much time as possible before we

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Speaker 1: get to the DNC. This is such good production. And

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Speaker 1: if you think that this hasn't been laid out for

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Speaker 1: you all the way to November, just watch. This isn't

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Speaker 1: over yet. If you think that Kamala Harris is just

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Speaker 1: going to calmly walk into this and going to run

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Speaker 1: for president, you haven't watched a lot of reality TV.

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Speaker 1: That's not how this is going to go.

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Speaker 2: It's just not We've always said, if there's two industries

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Speaker 2: that are similar, and i've side of the country, it's

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Speaker 2: DC and Hollywood, and they have they're just similar, but

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Speaker 2: they're different industries. And you're right. You need characters, you

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Speaker 2: need emotional attachment that I mean, and you need for

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Speaker 2: people to believe. Listen, you always said, like the reason

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Speaker 2: that people love the show The Bachelor so much, and

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Speaker 2: there is some truth to this, It isn't all fake.

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Speaker 2: But it's like they needed to believe that love was real.

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Speaker 2: And I think in this case people need to believe that,

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Speaker 2: like democracy is real. But it seems to be getting

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Speaker 2: more and more the veil seems to be getting the

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Speaker 2: curtain pulled back more and more and more. I think

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Speaker 2: in the.

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Speaker 1: Pause, are all just right, left, these are just people?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean and and and part of it

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Speaker 2: is because of social media and the fact that everybody

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Speaker 2: has a phone in their hand. I mean, think about Look,

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Speaker 2: the jfk assassination attempt has been such a mystery for

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Speaker 2: so many years because we got one bit of footage

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Speaker 2: the Zuppruder film, you know, that's all we got with this.

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Speaker 2: Everybody there had a cell phone in their hand. Very quickly.

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Speaker 2: We already got the curtain pulled back a little bit

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Speaker 2: that people knew the guy was on the roof, and

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Speaker 2: there's footage of people shouting he's on the roof, So

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Speaker 2: why wasn't it, you know, address there's so much like

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Speaker 2: it's harder to pull off behind the scenes things these days,

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Speaker 2: as you learn in reality TV.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and you are seeing so much unfold so quickly,

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Speaker 1: and the press is already you know, the machine is working,

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Speaker 1: but this is far from over and I find it tragic, sad, fascinating.

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Speaker 1: But as I also say, the only thing that really

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Speaker 1: hurts a reality show is apathy, meaning the audience doesn't care.

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Speaker 1: We all couldn't care more this because at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, this is a game show, because what's

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Speaker 1: the prize at the end? Leader of the free world,

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Speaker 1: ultimate power, the most powerful position in the world. And

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Speaker 1: then you enter the Vanguards, the Black Rocks, these other

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Speaker 1: companies that own eighty percent of the world's money and industry.

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Speaker 1: Are are they the actual executive producers of all this?

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Speaker 1: It is crazy? How about George Clooney being involved. So

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Speaker 1: I was listening to several podcasts this morning because George

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Speaker 1: Clooney very oddly kind of put out that statement about

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Speaker 1: asking George or asking Joe Biden to step down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was the one behind that big fundraiser

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Speaker 2: where Biden was seen on stage with Obama and Obama

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Speaker 2: kind of appeared to help him walk off the stage.

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Speaker 1: It's out that George was kind of pushed and urged

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Speaker 1: on by his friend Barack Obama because he's friends with Obama,

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Speaker 1: He's not friends with Joe Biden. People are taking sides now.

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Speaker 1: Jon Favreau, who is a speech writer, he's part of

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Speaker 1: the pod boys who kind of came out. So it's

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Speaker 1: very interesting the characters that involved, how everybody's playing this

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Speaker 1: game that is truly emerged out of all this.

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Speaker 2: I think you're right, people have a lot of Again,

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Speaker 2: like I said before, people have compared it to the

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Speaker 2: West Wing. Aaron Sorkin even he changed his tune really quickly.

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Speaker 2: He wrote an op ed saying, if I was scripting this,

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Speaker 2: the Democrats should put up. And then I think a

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Speaker 2: day later, when Biden stepped down, I'm not joking. A

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Speaker 2: day later he said, okay, I take it all back.

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Speaker 2: I stand with Kamala. I'm like, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: Well, but Joe was so defiant that he wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to step down. I mean up to ask several hours

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Speaker 1: before all this he was being so defiant, and word

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Speaker 1: is now leaking about how defiant he was and how

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Speaker 1: angry he was and doctor Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: But what I was going to say is, I think

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Speaker 2: it's more I think you're right, it's more reality. It's

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Speaker 2: more like reality TV than it is a scripted show.

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Speaker 2: Because there's the difference of you know, when you're scripting something,

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Speaker 2: people take it as it is, and I think, I

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Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to say is I think with

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Speaker 2: reality TV, now we've seen again how we kind of

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Speaker 2: believe this reality, but we're now able to, like we're

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Speaker 2: questioning it, and now more and more people are able

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Speaker 2: to deeply question it and pull the curtain back. And

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Speaker 2: that's happening in Paul.

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Speaker 1: Now, you're right, it's the tails wagging the dog or

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Speaker 1: the dogs wagging the tail. I'm not sure anymore. Baby,

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Speaker 1: it happened with The Bachelor and Reality TV first.

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Speaker 2: You're right, So I think you and I also always

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Speaker 2: like where we find our way to, you know, talk

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Speaker 2: about these things, like where we feel valid in discussing

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Speaker 2: it beyond just at home, but on the podcast or

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Speaker 2: wherever is where our expertise lies. And we were both

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Speaker 2: journalists for a long time, and I have for the

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Speaker 2: first time in a long time since the debate between

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Speaker 2: Biden and Trump, and since the assassination attempt turned on

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Speaker 2: cable news, like for the first time in a while,

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Speaker 2: because a few years ago, I was just so tired

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Speaker 2: of a split screen of ten talking heads screaming at

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Speaker 2: each other, and I thought, this is not the business

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Speaker 2: I came to get into. This is not good journalism,

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't watch it anymore. But when things are

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Speaker 2: happening on this level, you just have to like get

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Speaker 2: the insight and turn it on. And I will say

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Speaker 2: I've been surprised by I thought that both Fox and

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Speaker 2: CNN were both a bit more back to what I

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Speaker 2: wanted them to be than a few years ago. I

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Speaker 2: have to give them credit there MSNBC I still found

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Speaker 2: to be like, what is it was so one sided there?

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Speaker 1: They're off the rails.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but like Fox, and I will say, I'm not

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Speaker 2: talking about like the late night shows or stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: but just the during the day coverage when the assassination

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Speaker 2: attempt happened, and then the post debate coverage. In those blocks,

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Speaker 2: I found both CNN and Fox News to be better

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Speaker 2: than they had been a few years ago at bringing

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Speaker 2: alternate voices in so that the discussion was more in

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Speaker 2: depth versus just we're giving you one side.

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Speaker 1: I'm like you the producer in me, I never watch

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Speaker 1: one channel. If you looked at my yeah, we go

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Speaker 1: back and if you look at my viewing, you'd be like,

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Speaker 1: who does this guy support, Like, who does he watch?

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Speaker 1: I watch them all because I think it's fascinating to

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Speaker 1: go from one to the other to the other and

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Speaker 1: hear them spin and what they decide is important, what

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Speaker 1: they tell you is important, and then really just give

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Speaker 1: you their opinions, which is very interesting. The journalism is

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Speaker 1: very interesting to me. And we can talk about that

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Speaker 1: because there is the broadcast networks that's ABC, CBS, and Fox.

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Speaker 1: Then there's the cable deep cable and that is MSNBC, CNN, Fox,

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Speaker 1: and then the News Nation all the other ones and

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Speaker 1: now Merritt Street. But the delineation was network news. The

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Speaker 1: Tom Brokaws and all those of the world would never

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Speaker 1: give you their opinion. Technically they kind of could slide

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Speaker 1: it in and how they covered something, but it was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be completely unbiased journalism. The deep cable network

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Speaker 1: started like that, that was the idea.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, CNN just started is breaking twenty four seven news?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all gone. Now it's you have the Rachel

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Speaker 1: Maddow's Joy reads whatever. They're just telling you what they think. Now.

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Speaker 1: There is no news. There is no journey, I think,

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Speaker 1: but I get.

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Speaker 2: But my point is I think a few years ago,

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Speaker 2: it was a lot worse. And I do think CNN

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Speaker 2: under Chris Lick, who's now gone, but he was trying

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Speaker 2: to push them more back towards the center, and then

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Speaker 2: Fox News like Pol Tucker Carlson after that big lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: and I think they were trying to push a little

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Speaker 2: bit more towards the center, not completely because they have

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Speaker 2: to rely on this opinionated coverage for their ratings.

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Speaker 1: They're still obviously.

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Speaker 2: I think you can really see it in breaking news,

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Speaker 2: and I thought with the breaking news of Biden's stepping

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Speaker 2: down and of the assassination attempt, they were more moderate

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Speaker 2: than I expected them to be, and I it made

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Speaker 2: me a little hopeful. I as wild as everything is

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Speaker 2: right now. I actually was thinking this this morning and

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Speaker 2: I was getting ready. I feel a little bit hopeful,

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Speaker 2: more hopeful actually than I did a few years ago,

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Speaker 2: because I think with this election, we have the opportunity

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Speaker 2: for the first time in a while, for like some

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Speaker 2: for people to not feel defeated, for them to care

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Speaker 2: about something, for us to all feel like maybe change

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Speaker 2: can happen. I feel, and I'm just speaking of the

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Speaker 2: sense of like me and my friends and people we know,

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Speaker 2: but like, I think the past couple years have felt

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Speaker 2: really hard and really dark, and so maybe there's hope here.

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Speaker 2: I hope for hope, and the glimpse of the difference

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Speaker 2: in coverage made me feel a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: Did you say hope and change?

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Speaker 2: That sounds familiar, unburdened by what has been, I hope

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Speaker 2: for hope in the terrific new context. It's gonna be great.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to do all of our politicians.

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Speaker 1: How about that? How about that? Like of all this,

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Speaker 1: Trump is barely even a character in this reality show

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Speaker 1: going on, like they still have to pull him into this.

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Speaker 2: True? Who would have thought the Democratic Party would be

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Speaker 2: the absolute you know that they would be the f

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Speaker 2: boys in Paradise right now. That's what's happening.

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Speaker 1: It is such, It is such good reality and kudos

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Speaker 1: to the writers, Kudos to the producers. You guys have

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Speaker 1: done an amazing job. I can't wait to see how

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Speaker 1: this plays out leading into the DNC, Because again, if

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Speaker 1: you think there's like, Okay, we've come to our conclusion, oh,

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Speaker 1: you have not been watching reality TV over the last ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 1: twenty years. This will get much better and this will

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Speaker 1: continue to change.

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Speaker 2: By better, you mean more dramatic.

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Speaker 1: More dramatic. This will be the most dramatic election ever,

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Speaker 1: and I'm with you, LZ. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: the good news maybe the bright spot out of this.

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Speaker 1: We're all paying attention more, we're all caring more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's more craziness on social media and all that, but

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we're all involved and

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Speaker 1: that is the most important thing in our democracy, is

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Speaker 1: that we all have a voice. So we all care

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Speaker 1: and we will keep you up to date on this

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Speaker 1: reality show. I can't wait to see episode two. We

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Speaker 1: will talk to you again next time because we have

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Speaker 1: a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow

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Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the most Dramatic Pod ever, and

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Speaker 1: make sure to write us a review and leave us

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Speaker 1: five stars. I'll talk to you next time.