WEBVTT - The Queen of Cuba 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:27.956 Pushkin. This episode contains explicit language. Revision's History listeners Malcolm 0:00:27.996 --> 0:00:31.316 glad we'll hear. I've written a new book called Talking 0:00:31.356 --> 0:00:34.276 to Strangers, and it's about the mistakes we make in 0:00:34.316 --> 0:00:38.196 our interactions with people we don't know. Talking to Strangers 0:00:38.196 --> 0:00:42.236 features con artists and sociopaths and spies. It talks about 0:00:42.236 --> 0:00:44.476 how drinking affects the way we make sense of others. 0:00:44.916 --> 0:00:47.756 I spend time with the psychologist who ran the CIA's 0:00:47.796 --> 0:00:51.556 interrogation program and the man who spotted Bernie Madoff before 0:00:51.556 --> 0:00:54.276 anyone else, and I try to get to the bottom 0:00:54.596 --> 0:00:57.836 of a heartbreaking encounter between a police officer and a 0:00:57.876 --> 0:01:00.836 civilian which resulted in the death of a young woman 0:01:00.916 --> 0:01:04.036 named Sandra Bland in Texas. I think it's a book 0:01:04.236 --> 0:01:07.916 that will prompt a lot of conversations and arguments, which, 0:01:08.076 --> 0:01:10.596 as you know from Rege History, is what I like 0:01:10.676 --> 0:01:14.076 to do. I'm very proud of it. And there's something 0:01:14.076 --> 0:01:17.196 else I'm proud of with Talking to Strangers. After making 0:01:17.276 --> 0:01:20.716 four seasons of Revisionist History, I've fallen in love with 0:01:20.756 --> 0:01:23.956 a kind of storytelling that can be done through a podcast, 0:01:24.636 --> 0:01:27.036 and I decided that I wanted to bring that same 0:01:27.076 --> 0:01:31.316 approach to the audiobook of Talking to Strangers. Normally, an 0:01:31.316 --> 0:01:34.676 audiobook is just the author or someone the author hires, 0:01:35.076 --> 0:01:37.676 reading into a microphone. I didn't want to do that. 0:01:38.236 --> 0:01:41.196 I wanted to make this audiobook of Talking to Strangers 0:01:41.516 --> 0:01:46.036 as compelling as an episode of revisionist history. So if 0:01:46.076 --> 0:01:49.036 you listen to the audiobook, you'll hear the voices of 0:01:49.036 --> 0:01:53.116 the people I interview, and if I'm describing some historical event, 0:01:53.396 --> 0:01:57.716 you'll hear archival tape for courtroom scenes. We have actors 0:01:57.836 --> 0:02:02.036 reimagining what happened. There's music, an extraordinary song by Jenelle 0:02:02.076 --> 0:02:06.516 money Scoring. We even have excerpts from other audiobooks and 0:02:06.676 --> 0:02:11.516 podcasts like The Fantastic Believed from NPR and Michigan Radio. 0:02:11.596 --> 0:02:15.116 I think the result is a completely different kind of 0:02:15.196 --> 0:02:22.116 audiobook experience, much more powerful, moving, engrossing. Anyway, rather than 0:02:22.196 --> 0:02:25.476 describe it, I thought I would give you a special preview. 0:02:25.836 --> 0:02:30.076 So here it is Chapter three of Talking to Strangers 0:02:30.316 --> 0:02:52.436 done the New way. Let's take a look at another 0:02:52.516 --> 0:02:58.316 Cuban spy story. In the early nineteen nineties, thousands of 0:02:58.396 --> 0:03:01.996 Cubans began to flee the regime of Fidel Castro. They 0:03:01.996 --> 0:03:05.516 cobbled together crewde boats made of inner tubes and metal 0:03:05.596 --> 0:03:08.316 drums and wooden doors, and any number of other stray parts. 0:03:09.116 --> 0:03:11.956 They set out on a desperate voyage across the ninety 0:03:12.036 --> 0:03:15.676 miles of the Florida Straits to the United States. By 0:03:15.716 --> 0:03:18.916 one estimate, as many as twenty four thousand people died 0:03:18.956 --> 0:03:24.396 attempting the journey. It was a human rights disaster. In response, 0:03:24.676 --> 0:03:27.756 a group of Cuban Emigreys in Miami founded Ermanos el 0:03:27.836 --> 0:03:31.916 Riscat Brothers to the Rescue. They put together a makeshift 0:03:31.956 --> 0:03:35.516 air force of single engine Cessna Skymasters and took to 0:03:35.556 --> 0:03:39.036 the skies over the Florida Straits, searching for refugees from 0:03:39.076 --> 0:03:43.316 the air and radioating their coordinates to the Coastguard. Ermanos 0:03:43.356 --> 0:03:48.356 el Riscate saved thousands of lives. They became heroes. As 0:03:48.396 --> 0:03:52.476 time passed, the Emigreys grew more ambitious. They began flying 0:03:52.516 --> 0:03:56.596 into Cuban airspace, dropping leaflets on Havana, urging the Cuban 0:03:56.636 --> 0:04:00.636 people to rise up against Castro's regime. The Cuban government, 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:05.396 already embarrassed by the flight of refugees, was outraged. Tensions rose, 0:04:05.756 --> 0:04:09.036 coming to a head on February twenty fourth, nineteen ninety six. 0:04:09.836 --> 0:04:13.316 That afternoon, three Armanos al riscate planes took off for 0:04:13.356 --> 0:04:17.276 the Florida Straits. As they neared the Cuban coastline, two 0:04:17.356 --> 0:04:20.236 Cuban Air Force meg Fighter jets shot down two of 0:04:20.236 --> 0:04:23.356 the planes out of the sky, killing all four people aboard. 0:04:24.196 --> 0:04:28.036 The response to the attack was immediate. The United States 0:04:28.036 --> 0:04:32.556 Security Council passed a resolution denouncing the Cuban government a grave. 0:04:32.756 --> 0:04:35.276 President Clinton held a press conference. 0:04:35.436 --> 0:04:38.916 Ladies and gentlemen, I have just been briefed by the 0:04:38.996 --> 0:04:44.036 National Security Advisor on the shooting down today in broad 0:04:44.396 --> 0:04:49.596 daylight two American civilian airplanes by a Cuban military aircraft. 0:04:50.396 --> 0:04:55.196 The Cuban emigrat population in Miami was furious. The two 0:04:55.196 --> 0:04:58.836 planes had been shot down in international airspace, making the 0:04:58.916 --> 0:05:02.476 incident tantamount to an act of war. The radio chatter 0:05:02.556 --> 0:05:11.396 among the Cuban pilots was released to the press. We 0:05:11.516 --> 0:05:16.036 hit him, Cohonis, we hit him. We retired them, Cohonis, 0:05:16.116 --> 0:05:19.436 we hit them fuckers. Mark the place where we retired them. 0:05:19.876 --> 0:05:23.596 This one won't fuck with us anymore. And then after 0:05:23.596 --> 0:05:25.596 one of the MiGs zeroed in on the second Cessna 0:05:26.236 --> 0:05:32.836 Homeland or Deathew Bastards, But in the midst of the controversy, 0:05:33.236 --> 0:05:37.756 the story suddenly shifted. A retired US rear admiral named 0:05:37.756 --> 0:05:41.916 Eugene Carroll gave an interview to CNN. Carol was an 0:05:41.956 --> 0:05:46.236 influential figure inside Washington. He had formerly served as director 0:05:46.236 --> 0:05:49.556 of all US Armed Forces in Europe, with seven thousand 0:05:49.556 --> 0:05:54.276 weapons at his disposal. Just before the Armanos El Roscotte shootdown, 0:05:54.516 --> 0:05:57.596 Carol said he and a small group of military analysts 0:05:57.636 --> 0:06:02.636 had met with top Cuban officials. CNN's Katherine Callaway interviewed 0:06:02.676 --> 0:06:06.036 Carrol to try and make sense of it all. Admiral, 0:06:06.556 --> 0:06:08.676 can you tell me what happened on your trip to Cuba, 0:06:09.236 --> 0:06:11.916 who you spoke with, and what you were told? Then, 0:06:11.956 --> 0:06:16.636 Carol says, we were hosted by the Ministry Defense General 0:06:16.676 --> 0:06:22.476 Rossalis del Toro. We traveled around, inspected Cuban bases, Cuban schools, 0:06:22.676 --> 0:06:26.236 their partially completed nuclear power plant, and so on. In 0:06:26.316 --> 0:06:29.476 long discussions with General Rosales del Toro and his staff, 0:06:29.836 --> 0:06:33.156 the question came up about these overflights from US aircraft, 0:06:33.796 --> 0:06:37.876 not government aircraft, but private airplanes operating out of Miami. 0:06:38.276 --> 0:06:41.196 They asked US what would happen if we shot one 0:06:41.236 --> 0:06:44.796 of those down? We can you know? Carol says he 0:06:44.836 --> 0:06:47.836 interpreted that question from his Cuban hosts as a thinly 0:06:47.916 --> 0:06:52.996 veiled warning. Then Callaway asks, so, when you returned, who 0:06:53.036 --> 0:06:57.236 did you relay this information to? Carol replies, as soon 0:06:57.276 --> 0:07:00.396 as we could make appointments, we discussed the situation with 0:07:00.516 --> 0:07:03.356 members of the State Department and members of the Defense 0:07:03.476 --> 0:07:10.596 Intelligence Agency. The Defense Intelligence Agency THEA is the third 0:07:10.796 --> 0:07:14.436 arm of the foreign intelligence triumvirate in the US government, 0:07:14.876 --> 0:07:19.156 along with the CIA and the National Security Agency. If 0:07:19.236 --> 0:07:22.276 Carol had met with the State Department and the DIA, 0:07:22.676 --> 0:07:25.556 he had delivered the Cuban warning about as high up 0:07:25.636 --> 0:07:29.236 in the American government as you could go. And did 0:07:29.316 --> 0:07:32.716 the State Department and the DiiA take those warnings to heart? 0:07:33.556 --> 0:07:36.716 Did they step in and stop Armanos el Rascote from 0:07:36.756 --> 0:07:43.076 continuing their reckless forays into Cuban airspace? Obviously not, Carrol's 0:07:43.076 --> 0:07:47.596 comments ricochet around Washington d C. Policy circles. This was 0:07:47.716 --> 0:07:53.236 an embarrassing revelation. The Cuban shootdown happened on February twenty fourth. 0:07:53.836 --> 0:07:57.396 Carol's warnings to the State Department and DIA were delivered 0:07:57.436 --> 0:08:02.956 on February twenty third. A prominent Washington insider met with 0:08:02.996 --> 0:08:07.876 the US officials the day before the crisis explicitly warned 0:08:07.876 --> 0:08:10.956 them that the Cubans had lost patients with Armanos el Riscote, 0:08:11.556 --> 0:08:15.476 and his warning was ignored. What began as a Cuban 0:08:15.516 --> 0:08:20.956 atrocity was now transformed into a story about American diplomatic incompetence. 0:08:22.116 --> 0:08:26.116 By February twenty fifth, when Carol spoke with CNN, it's 0:08:26.156 --> 0:08:30.316 clear that this perception had already sunk in. Fidel Castro 0:08:30.436 --> 0:08:33.756 wasn't being invited onto CNN to defend himself, but he 0:08:33.796 --> 0:08:36.836 didn't need to be. He had a rear admiral making 0:08:36.836 --> 0:08:43.036 his case. Does anything about Admiral Carroll and the Cuban 0:08:43.116 --> 0:08:48.156 shootdowns strike you as odd? There are an awful lot 0:08:48.196 --> 0:08:53.316 of coincidences here. First, the Cubans plan a deliberate, murderous 0:08:53.316 --> 0:08:59.036 attack on US citizens flying in international airspace. Second, it 0:08:59.236 --> 0:09:02.556 just so happens that the day before the attack, a 0:09:02.596 --> 0:09:07.036 prominent military insider delivers a stern warning to US officials 0:09:07.236 --> 0:09:12.676 about the possibility of exacs that action. And third, that 0:09:12.756 --> 0:09:17.756 warning frituitously puts that same official the day after the attack, 0:09:18.196 --> 0:09:20.996 in a position to make the Cuban case on one 0:09:21.036 --> 0:09:25.436 of the world's most respected news networks. The timing of 0:09:25.556 --> 0:09:28.756 those three events is a little too perfect, isn't it. 0:09:29.676 --> 0:09:32.276 If you were a public relations firm trying to mute 0:09:32.276 --> 0:09:36.076 the fallout from a very controversial action, that's exactly how 0:09:36.116 --> 0:09:40.476 you'd script it. Have a seemingly neutral expert available right 0:09:40.516 --> 0:09:44.676 away to say I warned them. This is what a 0:09:44.756 --> 0:09:48.996 military counterintelligence analyst named Reg Brown thought in the days 0:09:48.996 --> 0:09:52.556 after the incident. Brown worked on the Latin American desk 0:09:52.676 --> 0:09:56.636 of the Defense Intelligence Agency. His job was to understand 0:09:56.716 --> 0:09:59.996 the ways in which the Cuban intelligence services were trying 0:10:00.036 --> 0:10:04.636 to influence American military operations. His business, in other words, 0:10:05.036 --> 0:10:07.956 was to be alert to the kinds of nuances, subtleties, 0:10:07.996 --> 0:10:11.396 and unexplained co incidences that the rest of US ignore. 0:10:12.316 --> 0:10:15.676 And Brown couldn't shake the feeling that somehow the Cubans 0:10:15.716 --> 0:10:20.076 had orchestrated the whole crisis. It turned out, for example, 0:10:20.316 --> 0:10:23.556 that the Cubans had a source inside Armanos el Roscote, 0:10:24.036 --> 0:10:27.876 a pilot named Juan Pablo RoCE. On the day before 0:10:27.916 --> 0:10:32.676 the attack, Roque had disappeared and resurfaced at Castro's side 0:10:32.716 --> 0:10:36.316 in Havana. Clearly, Roque told his bosses back home that 0:10:36.396 --> 0:10:39.596 Armanos al Riscote had something planned for the twenty fourth. 0:10:40.516 --> 0:10:43.036 That made it very difficult for Brown to imagine that 0:10:43.156 --> 0:10:45.916 the date of the Carol briefing had been chosen by 0:10:46.036 --> 0:10:51.236 chance for maximum public relations impact. The Cubans would want 0:10:51.276 --> 0:10:54.956 their warning delivered the day before, wouldn't they That way, 0:10:54.996 --> 0:10:58.076 the State Department and the DIA couldn't wiggle out of 0:10:58.076 --> 0:11:00.596 the problem by saying that the warning was vague or 0:11:00.636 --> 0:11:04.476 long ago. Carol's words were right in front of them 0:11:04.476 --> 0:11:08.036 on the day the pilots took off from Miami. So 0:11:08.516 --> 0:11:13.356 who ragned that meeting? Brown wondered who picked February twenty third. 0:11:14.436 --> 0:11:16.996 He did some digging, and the name he came up 0:11:17.076 --> 0:11:20.716 with startled him. It was a colleague of his DIA, 0:11:21.396 --> 0:11:26.476 a Cuba expert named Anna Balen Montes. Anna Montes was 0:11:26.516 --> 0:11:30.436 a star. She had been selected repeatedly for promotions and 0:11:30.476 --> 0:11:35.476 special career opportunities, showered with accolades and bonuses. Her reviews 0:11:35.516 --> 0:11:38.476 were glowing. She had come to the DIA from the 0:11:38.516 --> 0:11:41.716 Department of Justice, and in his recommendation One of her 0:11:41.756 --> 0:11:45.516 former supervisors described her as the best employee he had 0:11:45.596 --> 0:11:49.196 ever had. She once got a medal from George Tennant, 0:11:49.276 --> 0:11:53.156 the director of the CIA. Her nickname inside the intelligence 0:11:53.196 --> 0:12:00.156 community was the Queen of Cuba. Weeks past, Brown agonized 0:12:00.876 --> 0:12:03.396 to accuse a colleague of treachery on the basis of 0:12:03.476 --> 0:12:08.356 such semi paranoid speculation. Was an awfully big step, especially 0:12:08.396 --> 0:12:12.836 when the colleague was someone of Monte's stature. Finally, Brown 0:12:12.916 --> 0:12:15.996 made up his mind, taking his suspicions to a DIA 0:12:16.156 --> 0:12:19.396 counterintelligence officer named Scott Carmichael. 0:12:19.956 --> 0:12:22.436 He came over and we walked in the neighborhoods around 0:12:22.476 --> 0:12:23.796 there for a while during lunch hour. 0:12:24.076 --> 0:12:27.156 This is Carmichael talking about his first meeting with Reg Brown. 0:12:27.356 --> 0:12:29.436 And I think it was during that lunch hour. He 0:12:29.636 --> 0:12:33.196 hardly even got to tamatas. I mean, most of it 0:12:33.236 --> 0:12:35.756 was listening to him saying, oh God, he's bringing his hands, 0:12:35.796 --> 0:12:37.956 saying I don't want to do the wrong thing. Yea, yeah, yeah. 0:12:38.436 --> 0:12:43.116 Slowly Carmichael drew him out. Brown had more evidence. He 0:12:43.156 --> 0:12:45.716 had written a report in the late nineteen eighties detailing 0:12:45.756 --> 0:12:49.236 the involvement of senior Cuban officials and international drug smuggling. 0:12:50.036 --> 0:12:55.516 He identified specific Cuban senior Cuban officers, including I think 0:12:55.556 --> 0:12:59.716 a general office and some lesser officers who were dirking involved, 0:12:59.756 --> 0:13:04.636 and then provided the specifics I mean whites, the dates, 0:13:04.636 --> 0:13:08.116 the time, to places who did walked home a whole enchilada. 0:13:09.196 --> 0:13:11.756 In a few days before Brown's report was released, the 0:13:11.796 --> 0:13:16.236 Cubans rounded up everyone had mentioned in his investigation, executed 0:13:16.276 --> 0:13:18.796 a number of them, and issued a public denial. 0:13:19.156 --> 0:13:23.356 I wrote one for the fuck there was a league. 0:13:24.516 --> 0:13:29.876 It made REDG. Brown paranoid. In nineteen ninety four, two 0:13:29.996 --> 0:13:33.876 Cuban intelligence officers had defected and told a similar story. 0:13:34.516 --> 0:13:38.596 The Cubans had someone high inside American intelligence. So what 0:13:38.676 --> 0:13:41.996 was he to think? Brown said to Carmichael, didn't he 0:13:42.076 --> 0:13:46.716 have reason to be suspicious? Then he told Carmichael the 0:13:46.756 --> 0:13:50.476 other thing that had happened During the Ermanos al Riscote crisis. 0:13:51.356 --> 0:13:54.236 Montees worked at the DIA's office on Bowling Air Force 0:13:54.276 --> 0:13:58.596 Base in the Anacostia section of Washington, d C. When 0:13:58.596 --> 0:14:01.716 the planes were shot down, she was called into the Pentagon. 0:14:02.076 --> 0:14:04.796 If you were one of the government's leading Cuba experts, 0:14:05.076 --> 0:14:08.556 you were needed at the scene. The shootdown happened on 0:14:08.596 --> 0:14:13.396 a Saturday. The following evening, Brown happened to telephone asking 0:14:13.436 --> 0:14:17.676 for Montes. He sent some woman answered the phone and 0:14:17.716 --> 0:14:21.956 told him that Anna had left. Carmichael says, earlier in 0:14:21.996 --> 0:14:25.276 the day, Montes had gotten a phone call and afterwards 0:14:25.356 --> 0:14:29.316 she'd been agitated. Then she told everyone in the situation 0:14:29.436 --> 0:14:32.276 room that she was tired, that there was nothing going on, 0:14:32.356 --> 0:14:34.356 that she was going home, and Reg. 0:14:34.396 --> 0:14:37.356 Was just absolutely incredulous. This is just so counter to 0:14:37.436 --> 0:14:41.996 our culture that he couldn't even leave it. Everybody understands 0:14:42.476 --> 0:14:46.236 that when a crisis occurs, you're called in because you 0:14:46.316 --> 0:14:50.116 have some expertise you can add add to the decision 0:14:50.196 --> 0:14:51.156 making processes. 0:14:51.556 --> 0:14:57.436 Here, Scott Carmichael starts thumping to make his point, Pentagon, you. 0:14:57.396 --> 0:15:01.876 Were available until you were dismissed. That's it's just understood. 0:15:02.476 --> 0:15:05.076 You know, at somebody at that level calls you in 0:15:05.156 --> 0:15:07.156 because all of a sudden, with North Koreans and launce 0:15:07.196 --> 0:15:10.716 A Michelan San Francisco, you don't just decide to leave 0:15:10.756 --> 0:15:14.956 when you get tired and armored. Everybody understands, and yet 0:15:14.996 --> 0:15:18.156 she did that and was just. 0:15:19.796 --> 0:15:24.396 In Reg Brown's thinking, if Montez really worked for the Cubans, 0:15:24.756 --> 0:15:27.236 they would have been desperate to hear from her. They 0:15:27.236 --> 0:15:29.796 would want to know what was happening in the situation room. 0:15:30.596 --> 0:15:32.596 Did she have a meeting that night with her handler. 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:35.316 It was all a bit far fetched, which is why 0:15:35.356 --> 0:15:38.956 Brown was so conflicted. But there were Cuban spies. He 0:15:39.036 --> 0:15:42.356 knew that. And here was this woman taking a personal 0:15:42.476 --> 0:15:44.876 phone call and heading out the door in the middle 0:15:44.876 --> 0:15:47.876 of what was, for a Cuba specialist, just about the 0:15:47.916 --> 0:15:51.516 biggest crisis in a generation. And on top of that, 0:15:52.476 --> 0:15:55.076 she's the one who wo had arrange the awfully convenient 0:15:55.156 --> 0:15:59.276 Admiral Carrol briefing. Brown told Carmichael that the Cubans had 0:15:59.276 --> 0:16:01.836 wanted to shoot down one of the Harmanos el Riscotte 0:16:01.916 --> 0:16:05.316 planes for years, but they hadn't because they knew what 0:16:05.356 --> 0:16:08.756 a provocation that would be. It might serve as the excuse, 0:16:08.876 --> 0:16:12.196 you know, States needed to depose Fidel Castro or launch 0:16:12.236 --> 0:16:16.636 an invasion. To the Cubans, it wasn't worth it unless, 0:16:16.876 --> 0:16:19.396 that is, they could figure out some way to turn 0:16:19.476 --> 0:16:21.156 public opinion in their favor. 0:16:21.876 --> 0:16:24.516 And so he looked at that one. Holy shit, I'm 0:16:24.516 --> 0:16:28.076 looking at a kitting color and Dollan's influence operation to 0:16:28.396 --> 0:16:31.316 spin a story, and I asked the one who led 0:16:31.356 --> 0:16:34.996 the effort to me with the adil, Carol, what the 0:16:34.996 --> 0:16:36.156 hell is that all about? 0:16:37.796 --> 0:16:43.796 Months past? Brown persisted. Finally, Scott Carmichael pulled Montez file. 0:16:44.916 --> 0:16:48.396 She had passed her most recent polograph with flying colors. 0:16:48.916 --> 0:16:52.396 She didn't have a secret drinking problem or unexplained sums 0:16:52.436 --> 0:16:55.396 in her bank account. She had no red flags. 0:16:55.916 --> 0:16:58.316 After I had reviewed the security file of a personnel 0:16:58.356 --> 0:17:03.076 file on her, I thought, reg Way off here, this 0:17:03.116 --> 0:17:06.276 woman is like, she's going to be the next director 0:17:06.316 --> 0:17:10.396 of Intelligence from DN. He's just fabulous. 0:17:10.956 --> 0:17:13.476 He knew that in order to justify an investigation on 0:17:13.516 --> 0:17:17.796 the basis of speculation, he had to be meticulous. Reg Brown, 0:17:17.836 --> 0:17:21.796 he said, was coming apart. He had to satisfy Brown's 0:17:21.796 --> 0:17:24.836 suspicions one way or another, as he put it, to 0:17:24.956 --> 0:17:27.596 document the living shit out of everything. Because if word 0:17:27.636 --> 0:17:30.436 got out that Montes was under suspicion, I knew I 0:17:30.476 --> 0:17:36.916 was going to be facing a shit storm. Carmichael called 0:17:36.996 --> 0:17:39.676 monta is in. They met in a conference room at 0:17:39.716 --> 0:17:44.236 Bowling Air Force Base. She was attractive, intelligent, slender, with 0:17:44.396 --> 0:17:49.036 short hair and sharp, almost severe features. Carmichael thought to himself, 0:17:49.636 --> 0:17:51.316 this woman is impressive. 0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:54.116 She sat down. She was sitting like almost texting to 0:17:54.156 --> 0:17:55.036 me about that for away. 0:17:55.476 --> 0:17:58.356 Here Carmichael holds his hands three feet apart. 0:17:59.116 --> 0:18:02.276 Same side of the table, kind of thing, and she 0:18:02.396 --> 0:18:04.956 crossed her legs. I don't think that she did it 0:18:04.956 --> 0:18:06.956 on purpose. I don't think she didn't think she was 0:18:07.036 --> 0:18:12.156 just getting comfortable. Happen to be lame man. She couldn't 0:18:12.196 --> 0:18:16.956 know that. I mean, I like it. I know that 0:18:17.036 --> 0:18:17.836 I glanced down. 0:18:18.396 --> 0:18:20.916 He asked her about the Admiral Carroll meeting. She had 0:18:20.916 --> 0:18:23.876 an answer. It wasn't her idea at all. The son 0:18:23.956 --> 0:18:27.196 of someone she knew at DIA had accompanied Carol to Cuba, 0:18:27.276 --> 0:18:29.316 and she'd gotten a call afterward. 0:18:29.236 --> 0:18:32.156 I know his dad. His dad called me and he said, hey, 0:18:32.236 --> 0:18:34.476 you know, if you want the latest scoop on, you 0:18:34.476 --> 0:18:36.556 should go see the Admiral Carroll. And so I just 0:18:36.836 --> 0:18:39.196 called up Admiral Carroll and we looked at our schedules 0:18:39.196 --> 0:18:41.356 and decided twenty third of February. It was the most 0:18:41.356 --> 0:18:43.036 convenient date that works for both of us, and that 0:18:43.156 --> 0:18:43.476 was it. 0:18:43.876 --> 0:18:46.956 As it turned out, Carmichael knew the DIA employee she 0:18:47.076 --> 0:18:49.556 was talking about He told her that he was going 0:18:49.596 --> 0:18:52.556 to call him up and corroborate her story, and she said, 0:18:52.796 --> 0:18:56.316 please do So what happened with the phone call in 0:18:56.396 --> 0:18:59.796 the situation room, he asked her. She said she didn't 0:18:59.836 --> 0:19:02.876 remember getting a phone call, and to Carmichael, it seemed 0:19:02.876 --> 0:19:05.996 as though she was being honest. It had been a crazy, 0:19:06.076 --> 0:19:09.956 hectic day nine months before. What about leaving early? 0:19:10.356 --> 0:19:12.836 She said, well, yeah, I did leave. Okay, So right 0:19:12.876 --> 0:19:16.156 away she's admitting to that, and she's not denying stuff 0:19:16.556 --> 0:19:19.516 which might be a little suspicious. She said, yeah, I 0:19:19.516 --> 0:19:21.836 did leave early today that day, and she says, you know, 0:19:21.916 --> 0:19:24.676 it was on a Sunday. The cafeterias were closed. I'm 0:19:24.676 --> 0:19:26.716 a very picky eater. I have analogies, so I don't 0:19:26.756 --> 0:19:28.996 eat stuff out of any machines. I got there around 0:19:28.996 --> 0:19:31.876 six o'clock in the morning, about again, case black at night, 0:19:31.956 --> 0:19:34.796 I'm starving to death. Nothing was going on. They didn't 0:19:34.836 --> 0:19:36.796 really need me, so I just decaided I was just 0:19:36.796 --> 0:19:38.716 gonna get out of there, go home and eat something. 0:19:40.396 --> 0:19:43.116 And that rang true to me. I did. 0:19:43.756 --> 0:19:47.276 After the interview, Carmichael set out to double check her answers. 0:19:47.996 --> 0:19:51.196 The date of the briefing really did seem like a coincidence. 0:19:51.756 --> 0:19:54.716 Her friend's son had gone to Cuba with Carol. 0:19:54.836 --> 0:19:57.436 And I learned that, Yeah, she does a aalogy. She's 0:19:57.516 --> 0:19:59.716 very particular about what she eats. I thought, she's there 0:19:59.756 --> 0:20:02.396 in the Pentagon on Sunday. I've been there. The cafterias 0:20:02.396 --> 0:20:05.756 aren't open. She went all day long without eating. She 0:20:05.996 --> 0:20:09.116 went home. I said, well, it kind of makes sense. 0:20:09.796 --> 0:20:14.836 So Carmichael went back to reg Brown and told him 0:20:14.876 --> 0:20:18.596 not to worry. He turned his attention to other matters. 0:20:19.116 --> 0:20:22.916 Anna Montes went back to her office. All was forgotten 0:20:22.996 --> 0:20:26.356 and forgiven until one day in two thousand and one, 0:20:26.876 --> 0:20:30.236 five years later, when it was discovered that every night 0:20:30.756 --> 0:20:34.156 Montes had gone home typed up from memory all of 0:20:34.156 --> 0:20:36.156 the facts and insights she had learned that day at 0:20:36.156 --> 0:20:40.916 work and sent it to her handlers in Havana. From 0:20:41.036 --> 0:20:45.116 the day she joined the Dia, Montes had been a 0:20:45.156 --> 0:20:50.636 Cuban spy. In the classic spy novel The Secret Agent 0:20:50.876 --> 0:20:54.476 is Slippery and Devious were hoodwinked by the brilliance of 0:20:54.476 --> 0:20:58.476 the enemy. That was the way many Cia insiders explained 0:20:58.476 --> 0:21:03.356 the way Florentino as Piaga's revelations. Castro is a genius. 0:21:03.756 --> 0:21:08.196 The agents were brilliant actors in truth, however, the most 0:21:08.276 --> 0:21:13.196 dangerous spies are rarely diabolical. Aldrich Ames, maybe the most 0:21:13.276 --> 0:21:17.436 damaging trader in American history, had mediocre performance reviews, a 0:21:17.516 --> 0:21:20.396 drinking problem, and didn't even try to hide all the 0:21:20.436 --> 0:21:22.756 money he was getting from the Soviet Union for his spying. 0:21:24.516 --> 0:21:28.836 Anna Montes was scarcely any better. Right before she was arrested, 0:21:29.036 --> 0:21:31.516 the DIA found the codes she used to send her 0:21:31.556 --> 0:21:35.836 dispatches to Havana. Where did they find those codes? In 0:21:35.876 --> 0:21:39.236 her purse and in her apartment? She had a short 0:21:39.316 --> 0:21:43.676 wave radio in a shoe box in her closet. Brian Mattel, 0:21:43.996 --> 0:21:48.156 the CIA Cuba specialist who witnessed the Espiaga disaster, knew 0:21:48.196 --> 0:21:50.796 mont as well. He used to work as something called 0:21:50.796 --> 0:21:53.556 a National Intelligence Officer NIO. 0:21:54.276 --> 0:21:56.196 She used to sit across the table from me at 0:21:56.236 --> 0:21:59.836 meetings that I convened when I was INIO. You know, 0:21:59.876 --> 0:22:02.796 I would try to engage her and she would always 0:22:02.796 --> 0:22:06.396 give me these strange reactions when I would try to 0:22:06.436 --> 0:22:08.676 pin her down at some of these meetings that I convened, 0:22:09.196 --> 0:22:11.156 try to pen her down on you know, what do 0:22:11.156 --> 0:22:13.116 you think is infidel what do you think Fidell's motives 0:22:13.116 --> 0:22:16.436 are about this? You know she would fumble, you know, 0:22:16.556 --> 0:22:19.636 she in a retrospect and retrospect, you know, the deer 0:22:19.676 --> 0:22:23.996 with the headlights in his eyes, she she blocked. You know, 0:22:24.036 --> 0:22:26.236 she would even you know, even physically, she would show 0:22:26.236 --> 0:22:28.556 some you know, some kind of reactions that that caused 0:22:28.596 --> 0:22:31.356 me to think, Oh, she is nervous because she's just 0:22:31.516 --> 0:22:33.796 such a terrible analyst. She doesn't know what to say. 0:22:34.916 --> 0:22:38.436 One year later, Lttel says, Montez was accepted into the 0:22:38.476 --> 0:22:43.516 CIA's Distinguished Analyst Program, a research sabbatical available to intelligence 0:22:43.556 --> 0:22:48.516 officers from across the government. Where'd she ask to go? Cuba? 0:22:48.556 --> 0:22:54.476 Of course she went to Cuba funded by this program. 0:22:54.516 --> 0:22:56.156 Can you imagine. 0:22:58.956 --> 0:23:02.356 If you were a Cuban spy trying to conceal your intentions, 0:23:02.636 --> 0:23:06.876 would you request a paid sabbatical in Havana. ATel was 0:23:06.916 --> 0:23:10.956 speaking almost twenty years after it happened, but the brazenness 0:23:10.956 --> 0:23:12.916 of her behavior still astounded him. 0:23:13.636 --> 0:23:18.676 She went to Cuba as a CIA distinguished intelligence and analysts. 0:23:18.756 --> 0:23:20.756 Of course, they were delighted to have her, especially on 0:23:20.836 --> 0:23:24.036 our nickel, and I'm sure that they gave her all 0:23:24.116 --> 0:23:26.236 kinds of clandestine tradecraft. 0:23:25.876 --> 0:23:27.316 Training while she was there. 0:23:27.556 --> 0:23:30.676 I suspect camp rude, but I'm pretty sure she met 0:23:30.716 --> 0:23:34.756 with Fidel. Fidell loved to meet with his principal agents. 0:23:34.796 --> 0:23:36.796 He loved to meet with them, to encourage them, to 0:23:36.836 --> 0:23:40.156 congratulate them, to revel in the success that they were 0:23:40.156 --> 0:23:42.796 having together against against the CIA. 0:23:43.236 --> 0:23:45.996 When Montes came back to the Pentagon, she wrote a 0:23:46.036 --> 0:23:48.876 paper in which she didn't even bother to hide her biases. 0:23:49.876 --> 0:23:53.756 There should have been all kinds of red flags raised 0:23:53.796 --> 0:23:56.436 and gongs that went off when her paper was read 0:23:56.476 --> 0:23:59.796 by her supervisors, because she said things about the Cuban 0:23:59.836 --> 0:24:03.236 military that make absolutely no sense except from their point 0:24:03.236 --> 0:24:03.636 of view. 0:24:04.436 --> 0:24:08.316 But did anyone raise those red flags? Hotel says he 0:24:08.396 --> 0:24:10.356 never once suspected she was a spy. 0:24:10.796 --> 0:24:13.476 On the contrary, there were CIA officers of my rank 0:24:14.156 --> 0:24:16.036 or close to my rank who thought she was the 0:24:16.036 --> 0:24:22.636 best Cuban analyst there was. I never trusted her, but 0:24:22.756 --> 0:24:25.996 for the wrong reasons, and that's one of my great regrets. 0:24:28.076 --> 0:24:31.076 I'm always believed I was convinced that she was a 0:24:31.196 --> 0:24:35.796 terrible analyst on Cuba. Well she was, wasn't she objectively? 0:24:35.836 --> 0:24:38.316 Because she wasn't working for us she was working for. 0:24:40.236 --> 0:24:41.996 But I never connected the dots. 0:24:43.556 --> 0:24:46.676 Nor did anyone else. Anna Montez had a younger brother 0:24:46.756 --> 0:24:50.356 named Tito, who was an FBI agent. He had no idea. 0:24:50.996 --> 0:24:54.236 Montez's sister was also an FBI agent, who in fact, 0:24:54.276 --> 0:24:56.596 played a key role in exposing a ring of Cuban 0:24:56.636 --> 0:25:01.236 spies in Miami. She had no idea. Montes's boyfriend worked 0:25:01.276 --> 0:25:04.276 for the Pentagon as well. His specialty, believe it or not, 0:25:04.556 --> 0:25:08.116 was Latin American intelligence. His job was to go up 0:25:08.116 --> 0:25:13.436 against spies like his girlfriend. He had no idea. When 0:25:13.436 --> 0:25:16.396 Mantes was finally arrested, the chief of her section called 0:25:16.396 --> 0:25:19.916 her coworkers together and told them the news. People started 0:25:19.956 --> 0:25:24.676 crying in disbelief. The DIA had psychologists lined up to 0:25:24.676 --> 0:25:30.596 provide on site counseling services. Her supervisor was devastated. None 0:25:30.636 --> 0:25:34.796 of them had any idea. In her cubicle, she had 0:25:34.796 --> 0:25:38.396 a quotation from Shakespeare's Henry the Fifth taped to her 0:25:38.436 --> 0:25:42.356