WEBVTT - Who Benefits From Jensen Huang's Downfall? - Week in Tech 0:00:11.860 --> 0:00:15.320 Read Margot Taylor Welcome to Tech stuff. Was the clue 0:00:15.940 --> 0:00:19.040 in the $ 9, 000 Tom Ford leather jacket? That's what Emma 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:20.380 Childs has said in the cut. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.080 I'm obsessed with all the fashion analysis. I think it's 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.680 all 100% true. I haven't read it all, but I 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:27.340 believe in it. 0:00:28.020 --> 0:00:30.460 Could I get away with wearing a leather jacket like 0:00:30.500 --> 0:00:30.860 that now? 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:32.470 No, no. 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.710 I think this has tainted the leather jacket market for 0:00:36.210 --> 0:00:37.010 months to come. 0:00:37.150 --> 0:00:39.470 Or has it just reinforced the mythology of the leather jacket? 0:00:40.100 --> 0:00:42.199 I'm sad this didn't happen before Halloween, because that would 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.199 have diversified from the Elizabeth Holmes costume. 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.440 I think. Well, we have forgotten about this by next Halloween. 0:00:47.460 --> 0:00:50.240 That's what I want to know. 0:00:54.350 --> 0:00:57.090 Welcome to Tech Stuff. I'm Oz Velocian, and this is 0:00:57.130 --> 0:00:59.170 The Week in Tech, where I'm joined by the world's 0:00:59.210 --> 0:01:02.110 most plugged-in reporters to break down what's really happening in 0:01:02.150 --> 0:01:05.690 tech right now. Today, we're joined by Reid Albergotti, tech 0:01:05.709 --> 0:01:09.890 editor for Semaphore, Taylor Lorenz of UserMag, and Margot McColl, 0:01:09.950 --> 0:01:12.330 contributing writer for Vanity Fair. Welcome all. 0:01:12.660 --> 0:01:13.240 Good to be here. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.240 Thanks for having us. Thanks for having me. 0:01:15.620 --> 0:01:18.660 So this week is all about NVIDIA, obviously. By now, 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.640 everyone knows the news that CEO and founder Jensen Huang 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.630 was caught having an affair with an alleged Chinese spy 0:01:25.890 --> 0:01:29.730 and also allegedly with a direct report. And he has 0:01:29.790 --> 0:01:32.870 now resigned. Before we go any further, this podcast is 0:01:32.910 --> 0:01:36.380 being recorded at noon EST on Thursday, the 12th of November. 0:01:36.810 --> 0:01:39.970 will publish tomorrow, i.e. Friday the 13th. Unlucky for some. 0:01:40.050 --> 0:01:42.530 So they may be breaking developments between now and then. 0:01:42.930 --> 0:01:45.740 But in the meantime, want to lay out exactly what 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.320 we know about this story, what the implications are in 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.940 Washington and for the AI industry and all of the 0:01:51.980 --> 0:01:55.810 most delicious gossip. But Margot, we'll start with you. I mean, layout, 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.790 if anyone hasn't been looking at the newspapers or the 0:01:58.890 --> 0:02:01.090 X feed or television for the last seven days, like 0:02:01.790 --> 0:02:03.750 what happened? How did it happen? What's the timeline? 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.500 Yeah, so basically, the story's been kind of simmering for 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.300 like a year, but the real bombshell came out last week, 0:02:10.540 --> 0:02:13.990 which was that there were reports that Jensen Huang was 0:02:14.260 --> 0:02:17.669 having an affair with Alice Wong, no relation, which I 0:02:17.730 --> 0:02:19.090 love that every article has to point out. 0:02:19.889 --> 0:02:23.090 The Economist went with a very dubious news alert to Huang, 0:02:23.130 --> 0:02:25.660 so make her write, which I was... So bad. It's 0:02:25.980 --> 0:02:28.179 a very British tabloid, but I did not see that. 0:02:29.660 --> 0:02:30.180 So bad. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.620 But yeah, so basically he was having this affair. She 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.310 is an executive at this company called Megaspeed, which is, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:38.820 it's called like a Neo cloud. 0:02:39.150 --> 0:02:40.710 It like provides computing power. 0:02:40.750 --> 0:02:45.030 It's based in Singapore, Malaysia, and they had Chinese customers 0:02:45.730 --> 0:02:49.230 and US intelligence said that she was also like a 0:02:49.290 --> 0:02:52.950 Chinese spy. Who knows when she became a Chinese spy? 0:02:53.050 --> 0:02:55.010 Like I've seen people be like, it was all honeypot. 0:02:55.389 --> 0:02:57.190 And I'm like, she was posting pictures with him. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:58.620 Like a lot. 0:02:58.810 --> 0:03:01.030 But yeah, that led to this kind of snowball effect 0:03:01.590 --> 0:03:02.310 that led to him resigning. 0:03:02.570 --> 0:03:05.049 So the big question is, was she always a spy 0:03:05.070 --> 0:03:06.910 or was she recruited to be a spy once she 0:03:06.950 --> 0:03:08.290 began having an affair with Jensen? 0:03:08.550 --> 0:03:08.850 Yeah. 0:03:08.889 --> 0:03:11.070 And like, I'm based in D.C. and I've been talking 0:03:11.090 --> 0:03:12.910 to different China experts at think tanks. 0:03:12.970 --> 0:03:14.660 And they're all kind of like, if she was a 0:03:14.700 --> 0:03:17.620 spy from the start, like she was like making bets 0:03:17.660 --> 0:03:19.820 with people that she could get Jensen to like a bar. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.459 Like that's a crazy thing for a spy to do. 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:24.620 Maybe there's the old adage that the best place to 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:25.660 hide is in plain sight. 0:03:25.990 --> 0:03:26.690 Yeah, maybe. 0:03:26.710 --> 0:03:26.790 Yeah. 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.420 I think it's pretty clear she wasn't a spy, right? 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.910 I mean, this, I think this term spy is sort 0:03:32.930 --> 0:03:36.410 of used interchangeably with a Chinese national who has family 0:03:36.470 --> 0:03:40.150 in China, right? Because theoretically, anybody who is who has 0:03:40.190 --> 0:03:43.720 family in China, like the CCP can approach them and say, Hey, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.940 we'd love to get a couple briefings on on your 0:03:46.980 --> 0:03:49.300 relationship with Jensen Wong. And by the way, you know, 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.400 we hope your family's okay, you know, and they have 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.750 to do it. So I mean, I was talking with 0:03:53.780 --> 0:03:56.530 a former CIA analyst about this the other day who 0:03:56.570 --> 0:03:59.170 works in tech. And he's like, we were talking about it. 0:03:59.170 --> 0:04:01.530 I'm like, so what do you think? Where was she recruited? 0:04:01.550 --> 0:04:04.830 And he's like, it doesn't matter. They're all spies, basically. 0:04:04.850 --> 0:04:05.330 In their mind, anybody. 0:04:07.250 --> 0:04:09.070 Whose Chinese is essentially a spy. 0:04:09.250 --> 0:04:10.390 Is that what this story is, Taylor? 0:04:10.650 --> 0:04:12.850 I agree with Reid. I mean, I think that there's 0:04:12.900 --> 0:04:17.219 just so much like xenophobia and paranoia right now. And 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.440 we don't know anything about this woman's relationship to the 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.640 Chinese government. It's so far, I think, in the Wall 0:04:23.670 --> 0:04:25.270 Street Journal and the Times, it's just been sort of 0:04:25.290 --> 0:04:29.490 like anonymous intelligence sources. And it very much depends. If 0:04:29.510 --> 0:04:31.910 you talk to China Hawks, as he said, everyone's, you know, 0:04:32.130 --> 0:04:32.810 everyone's a spy. 0:04:33.250 --> 0:04:36.750 She was detained in Singapore, and the Financial Times had 0:04:36.790 --> 0:04:40.729 an article that said that the Chinese spy agency was 0:04:40.810 --> 0:04:43.050 trying to figure out who she was. They were calling 0:04:43.089 --> 0:04:45.620 her friends and family, asking, like, who is this person? So, 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:46.760 you know, I think. 0:04:46.779 --> 0:04:49.479 To be fair, it's probably quite a big network of sources. 0:04:49.500 --> 0:04:53.159 But, like, I think we're, like, downplaying a little bit. 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:53.640 Yeah. 0:04:53.660 --> 0:04:54.779 Yeah, Margot, I want to hear from you. 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:56.180 Well, I just want to point out that. 0:04:56.260 --> 0:04:58.720 Like, in 2025, a report came out that they were 0:04:58.940 --> 0:05:02.830 investigating her company, separate of her being a spy... And, like, 0:05:03.490 --> 0:05:04.910 this has, like, prompted me reading a lot about, like, 0:05:04.950 --> 0:05:06.950 how we, like, track chips because a lot of times 0:05:07.010 --> 0:05:10.020 it's just based on, like, physical audits. And they, like, 0:05:10.100 --> 0:05:12.739 went to one of the mega speed, like, operation centers, 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:14.219 I think one of the data centers, and found that 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.020 a bunch of NVIDIA chips were, like, still in boxes. 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.130 And they were like, oh, like, are they just forwarding 0:05:18.170 --> 0:05:20.010 them to China, which would obviously. 0:05:19.810 --> 0:05:21.350 Break our export laws. 0:05:21.860 --> 0:05:23.380 Why do they think just based on finding them in 0:05:23.420 --> 0:05:25.779 the office in Malaysia that they were being forwarded to China? 0:05:26.020 --> 0:05:30.580 I mean, NVIDIA, when they track these chips, are supposed 0:05:30.620 --> 0:05:32.360 to make sure that the chips are in use and 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.960 supposed to check that the chips are in use. I mean, 0:05:34.980 --> 0:05:36.520 these are in super high demand. So it's not like 0:05:36.550 --> 0:05:38.750 they're like sending them out in boxes and people are 0:05:38.790 --> 0:05:40.770 just getting them like just in case and they're sitting 0:05:40.790 --> 0:05:41.270 in the corner. 0:05:41.290 --> 0:05:43.290 You're not supposed to let them pile up on your doorstep. 0:05:44.010 --> 0:05:44.770 No, probably not. 0:05:44.790 --> 0:05:48.930 They do often sit in warehouses, though, like they do. 0:05:48.970 --> 0:05:52.000 I mean, There are lots of reasons why this happens 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.500 in every country, essentially. I remember I had a scoop 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.780 on these chips getting sent to the UAE, and I 0:05:58.820 --> 0:06:01.000 was talking with a source, and he's like, yeah, they're 0:06:01.060 --> 0:06:03.700 in a warehouse right now because they couldn't get them 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.190 deployed right away, which is not good. You don't want 0:06:06.230 --> 0:06:08.350 to do that. You lose a lot of money, but 0:06:08.390 --> 0:06:09.070 it does happen. 0:06:10.050 --> 0:06:13.770 Is Megaspeed a local distributor of NVIDIA chips? What was 0:06:13.810 --> 0:06:14.850 their official purpose? 0:06:15.339 --> 0:06:18.740 They're kind of like a core weave of Malaysia. They 0:06:18.779 --> 0:06:21.880 were setting up these little small data centers. And then 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.860 what was happening is people in China would access from 0:06:25.900 --> 0:06:29.100 the cloud. They'd go access these data centers. And that's 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.750 technically not illegal, right? It's sort of a loophole that 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.950 a lot of people actually want to close. And that 0:06:34.990 --> 0:06:39.230 may happen now, partly as a result of taking NVIDIA 0:06:39.290 --> 0:06:42.690 off the table and their lobbying efforts. But all these 0:06:42.770 --> 0:06:46.479 companies kind of set up these clouds in Asia, and 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.580 then they would serve the Chinese market. So it'd be 0:06:49.620 --> 0:06:52.400 like a core weave, not in China, but kind of 0:06:52.420 --> 0:06:56.390 serving China, which again, was not illegal. It's but but 0:06:56.430 --> 0:06:58.730 there may I'm not saying that none of these allegations 0:06:58.790 --> 0:07:00.529 are true. I'm just like, I'm just sort of laying 0:07:00.570 --> 0:07:01.110 out the facts. 0:07:01.290 --> 0:07:03.170 Is she still is Alice Wong still working at mega 0:07:03.190 --> 0:07:04.010 speed as far as we know? 0:07:04.529 --> 0:07:07.010 Alice Wong was never really working at mega speed. Like 0:07:07.070 --> 0:07:09.070 she was sort of what they call like a white glove. 0:07:09.620 --> 0:07:11.720 It sounds like in China where it's she's like was 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:16.340 a facilitator. There was actually this great blog post by Shum. 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:18.640 I'm forgetting his first name, but he wrote that. I 0:07:18.700 --> 0:07:21.630 read his book actually, Red Roulette, I think it was called. 0:07:22.190 --> 0:07:25.690 And he was like talking all about her. He knew her, 0:07:25.710 --> 0:07:27.870 he had met her. He was talking all about her 0:07:27.930 --> 0:07:31.550 like previous businesses and she would sort of facilitate, you know, 0:07:31.590 --> 0:07:35.270 essentially like sales of companies and transactions where like the 0:07:35.330 --> 0:07:37.770 parties don't want to be known. And so it might 0:07:37.790 --> 0:07:40.730 have been like, it might be that mega speed was 0:07:40.770 --> 0:07:43.770 being financed by Alibaba. They were like, it was a 0:07:43.790 --> 0:07:46.310 Neo cloud, but essentially it was like an Alibaba cloud. 0:07:46.950 --> 0:07:49.040 That may have been the case. Like according to him, 0:07:49.060 --> 0:07:51.260 it was a fat, it's fascinating analysis, but he doesn't 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:52.240 think she's a spy either. 0:07:53.340 --> 0:07:54.980 Why do us intelligence think she is? 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.420 Well, do they think she is right? 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:03.400 I mean, I mean also like intelligence, like who in intelligence, 0:08:03.430 --> 0:08:06.610 you know, like I, I guess I'm skeptical because I've 0:08:06.670 --> 0:08:08.890 had so many people over the years sort of like 0:08:08.980 --> 0:08:12.060 claim spy. I covered a lot of TikTok stuff and 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.720 I covered the TikTok ban. And that was this huge 0:08:14.780 --> 0:08:16.940 thing for a while where they kept trying to claim 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.440 to reporters there were spies and Chinese influence and all 0:08:19.460 --> 0:08:21.580 this stuff. And again, TikTok is owned by ByteDance, a 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.540 Chinese company, but there were just all these really egregious 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.470 claims made by people. And so I think I have 0:08:27.870 --> 0:08:32.439 a heavy dose of skepticism anytime somebody claims that any 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.900 Chinese person is a spy unless we have receipts. That 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.120 doesn't mean that there wasn't sort of shady behavior or 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.300 wrongdoing or side deals or Jensen wasn't giving her special 0:08:40.620 --> 0:08:42.819 preferential treatment or whatever. The affair didn't happen. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:43.000 Right. 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.480 But I think, yeah, the TikTok stuff just like made 0:08:45.500 --> 0:08:48.340 me realize how loose fast and loose people play with 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:48.960 some of these terms. 0:08:49.580 --> 0:08:52.230 Yeah, this is true. And like not to dismiss any 0:08:52.250 --> 0:08:55.170 of the allegations because they're really serious. And, you know, 0:08:55.390 --> 0:08:56.969 we should see this come out publicly. 0:08:57.030 --> 0:08:57.209 Right. 0:08:57.250 --> 0:09:01.120 Eventually. But Taylor's totally right. Anybody in government can write 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.470 a classified memo saying, I think this person's a spy 0:09:04.650 --> 0:09:07.250 with zero evidence. Not that there is zero evidence. I'm 0:09:07.270 --> 0:09:09.790 just saying, theoretically, this does happen. And then they can 0:09:09.850 --> 0:09:12.980 leak that memo to a reporter and say, hey, I've 0:09:13.020 --> 0:09:16.360 got the classified memo saying we think this person's a spy. 0:09:17.170 --> 0:09:19.429 And the story comes out. There could be no evidence. 0:09:19.510 --> 0:09:22.270 Margot Alice Wang, victim of the new McCarthyism or no? 0:09:22.290 --> 0:09:25.959 I mean, it like spins into that. But like Trump 0:09:25.980 --> 0:09:28.540 was briefed on this. I think you guys are, I 0:09:28.620 --> 0:09:29.800 respect your opinions. 0:09:30.100 --> 0:09:31.679 Trump is briefed on anything. 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.500 Trump was briefed on it by the people who wanted 0:09:34.540 --> 0:09:38.559 to get this out, right? And he said, for whatever reason, 0:09:38.860 --> 0:09:41.640 this doesn't rise to the level of let's like cut 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.340 off Jensen Wong. And those people probably weren't happy about that, right? 0:09:45.650 --> 0:09:47.770 Wasn't it, like, the Rubio people that were trying to 0:09:47.809 --> 0:09:48.890 get it out to reporters? 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:50.740 Yeah, he's the one that, like, wrote the memo, right? 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:51.620 Yeah. 0:09:51.660 --> 0:09:52.980 Wait, Rubio wrote the memo? 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:54.280 His office, yeah. 0:09:54.380 --> 0:09:55.160 Yeah, his office did. 0:09:55.540 --> 0:09:58.250 Probably people on the National Security Council wrote the memo, 0:09:58.550 --> 0:09:58.990 is my guess. 0:09:59.030 --> 0:09:59.510 But the person. 0:10:00.179 --> 0:10:03.640 is, is that there is this political coalition that did 0:10:03.700 --> 0:10:07.160 feel like Trump wasn't taking it seriously, or they did 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.560 want to push this agenda, whatever, whatever. And we think 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.959 that it's important to acknowledge kind of everyone's interests here 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.370 and roles. And sometimes it's like, if you can't get 0:10:16.380 --> 0:10:18.190 the president to do something, you are going to go 0:10:18.490 --> 0:10:21.490 sort of seek external pressure. 0:10:21.390 --> 0:10:24.670 Yeah yeah i think that's totally that's totally right. 0:10:24.830 --> 0:10:26.709 Has china responded at all i mean are they are 0:10:26.750 --> 0:10:28.930 they i mean they've just denied it they've said that 0:10:28.990 --> 0:10:32.520 it's you know a smear yeah i don't know i 0:10:32.530 --> 0:10:34.819 mean i think it's like i just think the odds 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:35.200 that she's. 0:10:35.140 --> 0:10:38.140 A spy i'm gonna sound like i'm like a. 0:10:39.260 --> 0:10:40.720 Marco's the china hawk. 0:10:44.050 --> 0:10:45.650 Somebody has to be the China hawk, Margot. 0:10:45.690 --> 0:10:47.310 I'm going to join Team Margot on this one. 0:10:47.890 --> 0:10:48.770 Thank you. 0:10:48.990 --> 0:10:51.270 Channel the China hawks. We want to hear it. 0:10:51.670 --> 0:10:53.210 I think that they. 0:10:53.740 --> 0:10:58.100 I was rereading that Stanford review report from 2024. They 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:02.020 did a very viral report about Stanford students being constantly 0:11:02.179 --> 0:11:08.660 contacted by Chinese handlers or China using fake Instagram accounts 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.540 to talk to students that were working on AI or 0:11:11.580 --> 0:11:15.770 working on new technology. I think it's worth de-exotifying it 0:11:15.929 --> 0:11:18.050 and that like we do this. And if I was 0:11:18.130 --> 0:11:20.740 living abroad somewhere and I became good friends with someone 0:11:20.750 --> 0:11:23.400 very powerful, I'd probably expect the embassy to be like, hey, 0:11:24.460 --> 0:11:26.680 let me know what's up. But I just think the 0:11:26.740 --> 0:11:30.460 odds that she was like being contacted by China and 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.680 supplying information to China to me seems quite high. 0:11:34.340 --> 0:11:38.940 So Trump got the memo from people around Rubio, ignored it. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.600 And then what was the trigger for for the re-release 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:43.440 or the leaking of it? 0:11:43.860 --> 0:11:46.060 Well, it's all, I mean, we can speculate and then 0:11:46.100 --> 0:11:49.450 we should speculate. I'm just saying like, we don't actually know, 0:11:49.490 --> 0:11:51.510 which I think is like, to me, one of the 0:11:51.550 --> 0:11:53.610 things that bugs me about all this is like, we just, 0:11:53.650 --> 0:11:57.050 there's just no transparency or accountability here on like either side. 0:11:57.210 --> 0:12:00.330 It's like everyone, it's all happening like behind closed doors. 0:12:00.370 --> 0:12:02.700 And I would like to know, I'd like to know 0:12:02.740 --> 0:12:05.270 the truth. But go ahead, Margo. Sorry, I think I 0:12:05.309 --> 0:12:06.770 interrupted you. I apologize. 0:12:07.110 --> 0:12:08.330 No, I was just going to say is that the 0:12:08.350 --> 0:12:11.750 affair came out last week and that was like, which 0:12:11.820 --> 0:12:13.560 is so funny because so much of the story had 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.059 been kind of like hinted at and like in reports. 0:12:17.580 --> 0:12:19.920 But the fact that he was sleeping with her obviously 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.650 like made it go super viral. 0:12:21.670 --> 0:12:23.760 Like you said earlier, Margot, the affair came out a 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:25.400 year ago, right? The New York Times wrote the story. 0:12:25.420 --> 0:12:27.160 Well, it was that they had a close connection. 0:12:27.620 --> 0:12:29.760 Yeah, but it was, that was the implication. 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.420 Well, that's why I think it's funny that now that 0:12:32.460 --> 0:12:33.520 we know they were sleeping together. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:35.939 That story was supposed, you were supposed to read that 0:12:35.980 --> 0:12:38.400 and go, oh, he's having an affair with this woman. 0:12:38.420 --> 0:12:40.020 You think the New York Times is just too classy 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.200 about it? No, they can't say it. 0:12:42.580 --> 0:12:44.880 They didn't have enough. They didn't have enough to go 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:45.119 off of. 0:12:45.730 --> 0:12:47.710 The first person to say that I think there was 0:12:47.830 --> 0:12:50.390 sleeping together, like use that term, it was on Twitter. 0:12:50.809 --> 0:12:55.489 So somebody re-shared the new revelations. And I think it 0:12:55.530 --> 0:12:57.829 just like after the news story broke, I think New 0:12:57.870 --> 0:13:00.290 York Times even then didn't say sleeping together. I think 0:13:00.309 --> 0:13:03.890 because they can't prove what base they went to or whatever. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:06.910 But clearly it was a romantic relationship. 0:13:06.929 --> 0:13:08.699 That's why we need TMZ in DC. This is the 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:09.579 stuff I want from them. 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.240 It's actually messed up that TMZ didn't break this. But 0:13:12.380 --> 0:13:15.479 I think the second affair... Like, to me, the second 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.740 affair was what did him in because it showed a 0:13:19.780 --> 0:13:22.060 pattern of behavior. And the fact that this woman was 0:13:22.100 --> 0:13:24.540 a direct report like that to me, like got the 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:25.500 real snowball going. 0:13:25.860 --> 0:13:26.340 I agree. 0:13:26.580 --> 0:13:28.000 He was going to he was going to make it right. 0:13:28.059 --> 0:13:30.140 And then and then the second story came out. And 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:31.640 that was we don't know if he was going to 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.380 make it. But I think that you can argue sort 0:13:34.420 --> 0:13:37.280 of poor judgment in one instance. But I think the 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.859 fact that the second woman was a direct report of 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.459 his was. And I know he has like 60 direct reports, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:43.100 but still. 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.600 I was going to say, he's been, maybe he's been 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.780 like hinting to us. Like it's a numbers game I'm 0:13:47.830 --> 0:13:48.650 probably sleeping with. 0:13:49.170 --> 0:13:51.189 But I talked to, I talked to Steven Wett, who 0:13:51.250 --> 0:13:54.550 wrote the New Yorker writer, who wrote the Jensen biography. 0:13:54.630 --> 0:13:56.530 And he said that he had heard rumors that he 0:13:56.550 --> 0:13:58.020 was sort of a playboy and stuff. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:13:58.240 So. 0:13:59.250 --> 0:14:02.710 I like I think a powerful billionaire, if he is 0:14:02.730 --> 0:14:05.990 having one affair, is probably having more than one affair. 0:14:06.110 --> 0:14:08.329 And I think that probably lots of reporters are digging 0:14:08.410 --> 0:14:10.740 in and might even, you know, the board might know 0:14:10.780 --> 0:14:12.720 of more instances. We just don't know. 0:14:12.860 --> 0:14:15.600 But certainly the second one. Do we have any idea? Because, 0:14:15.780 --> 0:14:17.780 as you will mention, the New York Times story hinting 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.130 at a close friendship came out a year ago. And 0:14:20.530 --> 0:14:23.290 he presumably read that story and realized what it was about. 0:14:24.020 --> 0:14:27.280 Was it just hubris or the thought of impunity? 0:14:28.580 --> 0:14:33.020 So a year ago, Jensen hired Risa Heller, who is 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.680 a very well-known PR woman who has this PR firm 0:14:36.710 --> 0:14:40.910 that's known for mitigating sex scandals. So she worked on 0:14:40.970 --> 0:14:43.270 Anthony Weiner. She worked for a bunch of these guys. 0:14:43.290 --> 0:14:44.870 Mario Batali, Jeffrey Toobin. 0:14:45.370 --> 0:14:45.610 Yeah. 0:14:45.870 --> 0:14:49.890 So yeah, she's sort of like a crisis PR expert. 0:14:50.030 --> 0:14:53.320 And so I think that he retained her, obviously, assuming 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.380 some of this would cause problems at some point. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.400 Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing, though, I 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.420 agree with you that the second affair was what did 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.100 him in. But I think there's also the reality is 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.560 going to be so many investigations. As a board member, 0:15:06.580 --> 0:15:08.240 you're looking at this and you're like, the next two 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.780 years are just going to be scandal after scandal after scandal, 0:15:11.820 --> 0:15:14.760 like endless news cycle. And you just have to You 0:15:14.780 --> 0:15:15.790 just have to end it. 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.050 Does he have a Steve Jobs second act in him, 0:15:18.070 --> 0:15:19.550 do you think? Is he going to ride back to 0:15:19.570 --> 0:15:20.450 the rescue six. 0:15:20.290 --> 0:15:21.140 Months from now? 0:15:21.230 --> 0:15:22.450 Elon wants to hire him. 0:15:22.510 --> 0:15:22.820 Yeah. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.860 I was going to say that. 0:15:25.650 --> 0:15:29.590 I just can't. I mean, Jensen, this company is Jensen. 0:15:30.090 --> 0:15:33.730 And it's the U.S. economy, as Stephen Whitwood says. I know. 0:15:33.850 --> 0:15:34.690 It is, yeah. 0:15:35.150 --> 0:15:38.030 But it is, you know, it's hard to imagine the 0:15:38.100 --> 0:15:41.420 company reaching the levels of success without Jensen. And Jensen 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.580 was such, in the policy world, he was this like, 0:15:45.970 --> 0:15:48.610 sort of powerful figure that was this sort of like 0:15:48.690 --> 0:15:52.000 antithesis to the whole like anthropic ideology. I say that 0:15:52.020 --> 0:15:54.540 very broadly. So I just wonder what that means for 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.580 the political coalition. Trump is losing power. They just lost 0:15:57.620 --> 0:16:01.580 their main guy. You know, Jensen was a steward of 0:16:01.660 --> 0:16:03.090 Trump's tech policies. 0:16:03.370 --> 0:16:05.770 I agree with you that Jensen is, you know, is 0:16:05.830 --> 0:16:10.730 that company. He's an incredible long-term thinker, innovator, you know, 0:16:10.910 --> 0:16:14.230 one of the best in Silicon Valley, right? But right now, 0:16:14.910 --> 0:16:18.130 NVIDIA is fine. The effects will be long-term. 0:16:18.390 --> 0:16:20.350 Well, they lost a trillion dollars from the market cap. 0:16:21.470 --> 0:16:23.930 It's going to bounce back. Don't worry. The stock will 0:16:23.950 --> 0:16:26.770 bounce back because this thing is like... I mean, look, 0:16:26.890 --> 0:16:28.619 I don't trade individual stocks, but it is. 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.359 I was about to say, do we need any declarations here? 0:16:33.380 --> 0:16:35.780 Yeah, I can say this stuff because I don't have 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.560 to put my money where my mouth is. But no, 0:16:37.620 --> 0:16:41.210 it's going to bounce back. And look, because... they have 0:16:41.290 --> 0:16:45.010 essentially a monopoly on AI chips, which are the most 0:16:45.090 --> 0:16:48.410 in demand thing on the planet right now. And they're 0:16:48.450 --> 0:16:50.550 just going to keep selling out their chips, like for 0:16:50.580 --> 0:16:54.680 the foreseeable future. The effects on this company are long term, 0:16:54.700 --> 0:17:00.160 because it's the strategic decisions today that are going to affect. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.220 And I think they're in their harvest. I mean, you 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.119 think about, you know, your sort of sowing moments and 0:17:05.180 --> 0:17:09.620 harvesting moments as a company, right? Like, Steve Jobs sowed 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.859 the iPhone and then Apple harvested for the next 15, 0:17:12.859 --> 0:17:15.260 20 years. I think I agree with you that NVIDIA 0:17:15.300 --> 0:17:17.160 are going to be in harvesting mode for a long time. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.790 But of course, then there's the longer term question, which 0:17:20.250 --> 0:17:22.850 is unknowable. But so what's like day to day? What's 0:17:22.869 --> 0:17:24.910 happening to the company now? Who's in charge? How much 0:17:24.950 --> 0:17:27.230 chaos is there? Is Jensen still going to be involved 0:17:27.369 --> 0:17:29.330 like behind the scenes as a chairman or any kind 0:17:29.350 --> 0:17:31.380 of affiliation? Or what's going to happen from now? 0:17:31.940 --> 0:17:32.919 As of now, he's out. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.939 Well, the CFO Colette Kress, I think, is the one 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:37.440 that's currently in charge. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.669 Who has a really bad relationship with his daughter, who 0:17:40.710 --> 0:17:41.410 also works there. 0:17:41.670 --> 0:17:42.890 So that'll be... Say more? 0:17:43.270 --> 0:17:43.870