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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress.

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Speaker 2: Hi've dollarieh.

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Speaker 1: Can we do a little bonus?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm based book. I am so.

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Speaker 1: I just love it. Thank you. I know you wrote

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Speaker 1: your book for you, but also I needed this book, so.

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Speaker 2: That means the world to me. Thank you, That's what

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Speaker 2: I want.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations to you, and congratulations to me and all of

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Speaker 1: your other readers friends. Valerie Burtinelli's new book, Getting Naked,

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Speaker 1: The Quiet Work of Becoming Perfectly Imperfect, is out March tenth,

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Speaker 1: and I I want to talk about a couple of

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Speaker 1: specific parts with you. Your chapter Puzzles.

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Speaker 2: I love that chapter.

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Speaker 1: I love that chapter.

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Speaker 2: You're really Can I tell you how that chapter started?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, So when I started writing that chapter, it

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Speaker 3: was just going to be like my aging brain and

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Speaker 3: how I keep it active and how I keep the

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Speaker 3: synopsis moving, and how I can help you, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: keep your brain active and do these things like I

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Speaker 3: do puzzles. I love wordle I love connections. I love

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Speaker 3: doing the crossword puzzle. It's my Sunday morning is crossword coffee.

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Speaker 3: You know, my animals, That's like my favorite thing to do.

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Speaker 3: And then it just became puzzles family, the puzzle of family,

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Speaker 3: the difficulty, the challenges, the scariness of family, the you know,

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Speaker 3: what we're modeled as family, what family models love for us,

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Speaker 3: and how they model love.

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Speaker 2: And then it just became this.

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Speaker 3: Deep thing that became looking at my parents and finding

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Speaker 3: this deep compassion and love for my parents. Even though

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Speaker 3: I could be super angry at my dad for cheating

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Speaker 3: on my mom.

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Speaker 2: I'm still angry at him.

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Speaker 3: But I love him and I love how hard he

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Speaker 3: tried to become a better human being. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 3: love my mom sense of humor and her to hurt

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Speaker 3: artistry and how she never really had the chance to

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Speaker 3: really explore who she is as a full human being.

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Speaker 3: So it became, you know, starting as helping people with

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Speaker 3: their brain and then just becoming like, oh, I love

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Speaker 3: my parents. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's so amazing how it's sort of unfolded.

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Speaker 1: And it's not lost on me that it's a perfect

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Speaker 1: metaphor because as you do a physical puzzle, the picture

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Speaker 1: reveals itself, and the chapter you know, for our friends

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Speaker 1: at home, digs into generational patterns and identity, and you

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Speaker 1: really touch on how we're more like our parents than

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Speaker 1: we might want to admit. Yep, I'm very much in

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Speaker 1: that life stage.

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Speaker 2: You'll learn to appreciate it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm really curious because I'm having a moment

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Speaker 1: where I'm seeing so many parallels between myself and my mother.

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Speaker 1: I have processed my own loss, my own divorce, realized

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Speaker 1: I repeated a pattern that I swore to myself from

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Speaker 1: the age of eight would be the one thing I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do, and then it's exactly what I did because

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually do the work to fit that's the model.

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Speaker 1: You know, we find the clause that fit our wounds,

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Speaker 1: right mm hm.

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Speaker 2: How did your.

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Speaker 1: Reflection on that, discovering the traits that you share with

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Speaker 1: your mom, seeing the similarities in your own patterns, how

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Speaker 1: did that begin to dawn on you? Because I hear

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Speaker 1: you saying it opened a new well of compassion, if

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Speaker 1: you will. But I know, to get to the compassion,

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Speaker 1: you have some pretty intense realizations.

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Speaker 3: First a lot of anger, a lot of like, didn't

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Speaker 3: you do better? And then understanding why she couldn't do better,

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Speaker 3: and compassion for what this young woman went through having

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Speaker 3: five kids before she was twenty five, and you know,

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Speaker 3: her first pregnancy at sixteen seventeen and losing her second

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Speaker 3: son while she was pregnant with me from drinking poison.

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Speaker 3: So I was born into a family of grief, and

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Speaker 3: that grief manifests in a way that as a child,

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Speaker 3: all I saw is I need to make these people happy.

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Speaker 3: So it developed a personality in me the people pleas

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Speaker 3: are all that stuff and keeping an eye on things,

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Speaker 3: making sure everybody's okay.

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Speaker 2: I've pulled back.

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Speaker 3: From that a lot, but I know I also had

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Speaker 3: a tendency to wallow and feel sorry for myself, and

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Speaker 3: I know that's what my mom.

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Speaker 2: Did, and it used to make me so angry.

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Speaker 3: It's like I'd be like, Mom, stand up for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Tell dad to fuck off, is what I wanted to

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Speaker 3: say to her. I never said that, but I wanted

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Speaker 3: her to.

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Speaker 1: And then you realize you're not telling anybody to go off.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 2: I've been there, Yep.

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Speaker 3: That I needed to give my own advice to my mother,

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Speaker 3: to me and stop tolerating behavior that is intolerable.

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Speaker 2: But I tolerated intolerable behavior.

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Speaker 3: For a very long decades because I thought that's what

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Speaker 3: you did, because that was my role when you.

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Speaker 1: Do the work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, ye, but I'm not angry at her anymore.

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Speaker 3: I understand everything. She didn't have a mother. Her mother

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Speaker 3: died when she was nine. You know, she had a

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Speaker 3: horrible stepmother who treated her like she was I know

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Speaker 3: she was sexual abused. She never quite said it, but

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Speaker 3: I know it. That's why she ran away from home

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Speaker 3: and married my dad, got pregnant, married my dad.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not mad at her anymore.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I have immense amounts of compassion for her

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Speaker 3: and I still talk to her.

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Speaker 1: That's so special, that's really really special. Has reflecting on

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Speaker 1: it helped you wrap all the complexity in love because

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Speaker 1: you can say I wish i'd said off, and I

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Speaker 1: wish this and that. I wish I had more access

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Speaker 1: to anger, but it it's.

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Speaker 2: Still seems I'm way too much to roll off my back.

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Speaker 3: And I like that about me because it's patience to

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Speaker 3: watch someone go through what they need to go through

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Speaker 3: to get to the point that will bring us closer.

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Speaker 3: But it also puts me. It sets me up to

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Speaker 3: be abused, so I need to be better at that.

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Speaker 3: I know, without a doubt, if I ever start dating again,

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Speaker 3: I will absolutely keep my eyes open for the red

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Speaker 3: flags and not make excuses for them any longer. I'm

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Speaker 3: really good at making excuses for people, and I'm really

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Speaker 3: good at giving them second, third, fourth, fifth, seven million

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Speaker 3: chances because I believe in them. I believe they're a

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Speaker 3: good person. But I don't need to be proved on

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Speaker 3: the seven millionth time.

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Speaker 1: You're also an overstayer so badly.

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Speaker 2: Holy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know what's interesting, I've really had to

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Speaker 1: do some unpacking the performer in me because I know

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Speaker 1: how to do the job. I know how to make

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Speaker 1: Ike love me. I can and look how hard I work,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be on our seventeen ordering coffee for the

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Speaker 1: crew because we're in it together. And the thing that

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Speaker 1: I like about myself, like you said, my patience, which

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Speaker 1: is great in so many arenas of my life, is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a good.

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Speaker 2: Thing, not any I want not adding value their.

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Speaker 1: Relationship right, And the thing really trying to uproot some

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Speaker 1: of my own shame plants, if you will, I really

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Speaker 1: had to look in the mirror and go, oh, when

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Speaker 1: I overstay, I actually then I'm switching roles the person

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Speaker 1: who hasn't been good to me when I even if

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Speaker 1: it's in my subconscious and my brain hasn't admitted it

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Speaker 1: to me yet. If I overstay after I know this

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Speaker 1: is not going to work, I become the one who's

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Speaker 1: not good to them. Yes, and that was a tough

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Speaker 1: pill for me to swallow, but having to take full

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Speaker 1: accountability also was the thing that finally allowed me to

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Speaker 1: have grace and to go wow. I learned to tolerate

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Speaker 1: the intolerable and I called it love for a really

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Speaker 1: long time, and actually, in that space, I'm heartbroken for myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry for the people that I knew weren't actually

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Speaker 1: going to love me, and I tried to wait it

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Speaker 1: out to see if they might yep, because that hurt them.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And I've had to learn to love us both in

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Speaker 1: the rearview mirror, and it's in multiple ways, yes, multiple people.

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Speaker 2: I think it's easy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I only have the rear view mirror when

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Speaker 3: it comes to intimate love now, so I can look

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Speaker 3: back on that. I'm still angry about some situations that happened,

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Speaker 3: but I have definitely I have come to a place

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Speaker 3: with my second marriage where I'm just not angry anymore,

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Speaker 3: and I really understand what happened, how it happened, how

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Speaker 3: I stayed far too long, So I forgive myself, myself,

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Speaker 3: I forgive him.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he knew any better.

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Speaker 3: He's just been working through that his entire life.

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Speaker 2: So I feel peace about that.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious how I'll behave in a new relationship, because

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Speaker 3: with everything I've learned, I wonder if I'll be able

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Speaker 3: to then put it into action and if I see

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Speaker 3: a red flag, if I'm able to say that's a

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Speaker 3: note for me, and be able to walk out and

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Speaker 3: not even stay, not a second chance. So I'm curious

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Speaker 3: about that. But I'm also not ready. I am oh

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Speaker 3: gunshy right now. I'm not ready to put my toe in. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I know that I deserve to have an intimate love. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I think one day it could happen. But I'm

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Speaker 3: okay with taking my time. No more freaking love bombing

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Speaker 3: or limmerens.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you more now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No more of that. No, that's it. That's a

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Speaker 1: run for the hills.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, And it feels so damn good. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I'm like, no, I know, I don't want butterflies.

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Speaker 3: I want calm. I want I want emotional safety, and

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Speaker 3: I want to give that back. I want someone to

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Speaker 3: feel so emotionally safe with me. They can say anything

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Speaker 3: to me and I won't judge them, like my son

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Speaker 3: and my daughter in law, like my brothers, my girlfriends.

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Speaker 2: I like, I love you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know what it's like to take a

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Speaker 1: deep breath around someone, and you can have that in

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Speaker 1: your most intimate relationship too, I hope.

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Speaker 2: So, I know, So we'll see. I know, so we'll see.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he's out there.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because that that feels kind of

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Speaker 1: like a meditation on love when you think about the

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Speaker 1: shape and the energy that you want it to take.

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Speaker 1: And the book is full of meditations, which I love.

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Speaker 1: You know, for our friends at home, you talk about

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Speaker 1: the poem and a warm bath.

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Speaker 3: I yes, And I would encourage anybody to get the

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Speaker 3: audio of that because I would want you to like

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Speaker 3: sit and listen to it while you're in a bath,

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Speaker 3: because I tried to be as soft and gentle with

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Speaker 3: my audio in that particular meditation, because I want someone

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Speaker 3: to feel good and then start sinking into their own

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Speaker 3: body and seeing what they're feeling and taking from my

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Speaker 3: meditation and making it your own.

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Speaker 2: So I hope that happens with a few people.

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Speaker 1: I love that. And now for our sponsors, where did

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Speaker 1: the meditations come from?

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Speaker 2: Literally me sitting in a bath?

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Speaker 3: Okay, and really instead of just listening to my cat

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Speaker 3: scream at me, like, really, just where is my body now?

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Speaker 3: How is it feeling? What does it feel like? Like?

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Speaker 3: Am I judging it right now? Or am I just?

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Speaker 3: Am I floating? Am I sinking? And just anything that

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Speaker 3: may seem like nothing or may seem like really, And

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Speaker 3: then I start feeling about my parents and then thinking

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Speaker 3: about my mom, and then thinking about my mom smile

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Speaker 3: and her laugh, and you're just like your mind really

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Speaker 3: starts to like travel to beautiful places if you allow it,

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Speaker 3: some scary places too, But you.

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Speaker 2: Can also calm yourself down.

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Speaker 3: So I think we don't give ourselves enough credit that

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Speaker 3: our brains will help us and our bodies will help

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Speaker 3: us calm down.

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Speaker 2: And it's the Louise Hey quote.

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Speaker 3: You know, I all is well, Everything is working out

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Speaker 3: for my highest good, and even in this situation, only

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Speaker 3: good will come. I am safe. If you could just

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Speaker 3: tell yourself you're safe, even when you feel the least safe,

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Speaker 3: you can at least calm yourself down to get through

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Speaker 3: anything you may need to get through.

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Speaker 1: And that's you know, it's spiritual, but it's also scientific.

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Speaker 3: It is our bodies. Our bodies and our minds will

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Speaker 3: listen to us. So be careful what you you know,

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Speaker 3: tell yourself well.

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Speaker 1: And you have a meditation on healing, you know, because

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Speaker 1: you're talking about what does.

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Speaker 2: Healing feel like?

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Speaker 3: Yes, nobody really knows what it feels like as they're

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Speaker 3: going through it, so what does it really feel like?

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Speaker 2: And it's individual for everybody. For me, it's the meditation

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Speaker 2: I wrote.

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Speaker 1: Right well, and I love the way you talk about

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Speaker 1: in the same way that you're saying, tell your body

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Speaker 1: you're safe and it will offer you safety. You talk

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Speaker 1: in these reflections on healing about how if you replace

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Speaker 1: judgment with curiosity, you can change your perspective and that yeah,

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Speaker 1: easier said than done, but if you practice it, it

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Speaker 1: is a muscle, a mental muscle you can build. Yep,

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Speaker 1: do you catch yourself even now you know you've written

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Speaker 1: a book about it, which I think suggests that you're like,

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Speaker 1: I've learned this lesson and now I'll offer it to you.

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Speaker 1: But I'm guessing it's a lesson you practice actively.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm not always I'm imperfect at it, which is finding

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Speaker 3: the imperfection and appreciating the imperfection. But I there's even

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Speaker 3: a little trick that you can do. And I learned

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Speaker 3: this from a therapist a long time ago. When you

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Speaker 3: have a negative thought, put a positive, because my brain

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Speaker 3: works well if I can visualize it. So if I

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Speaker 3: put a positive and then that positive turns into curiosity, wow,

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Speaker 3: so it's like the judgment comes it's negative. So that's

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Speaker 3: negative positive so ooh, how did that change? Well?

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Speaker 2: Positive?

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Speaker 3: Then get curious about why that negative thought? Why that

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Speaker 3: Sometimes my negative thought starts in my gut? So maybe

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Speaker 3: is that a protection mechanism? Is that trying to protect

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Speaker 3: me from something? So just get curious about it? And

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Speaker 3: how would I know it's trying to protect me something

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Speaker 3: if I didn't get curious about it as opposed to just.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, that feels weird. I don't want to feel

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Speaker 2: it anymore. That feels weird. Get curious, get curious, get naked,

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Speaker 2: get naked. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much, fal This has just been special.

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Speaker 3: This has been wonderful, lovely. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: having me coming