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Speaker 1: I know you all have questions about this conclave, and

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Speaker 1: we've gathered them all and we've got some answers, and

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Speaker 1: that ain't blowing smoke on this edition of the Conclave Crew.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to this Arroyo Grande series, The Conclave Crew, Vatican Edition,

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Speaker 1: Episode five. Can you believe it's been five? And this

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Speaker 1: series has been brought to us by our friends at

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Speaker 1: Taylor for Gone Capital Management, Faith, Family and Finances there

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Speaker 1: at TAYLORFGHNE dot com, as well as Floriani revitalizing sacred

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Speaker 1: music there at Floriani dot org. We have a lot

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Speaker 1: of your questions to get to. Let's convene the crew.

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Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray, Canon lawyer of the Archdiocese of New York,

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Speaker 1: and Robert Royal, editor in chief of The Catholic Thing

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Speaker 1: dot org, and I'm Raymond Arroyo. Go subscribe to the

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Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande podcast wherever you get your podcasts, or you

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Speaker 1: can see the show A Royal Grande Show on YouTube

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Speaker 1: and like this episode, the cardinals are in the Sistine

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Speaker 1: Chapel conducting rounds of votes as we speak. Look, we

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Speaker 1: could get a new pope any minute, but until then

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Speaker 1: the world is on smoke. Watch last night. It was

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Speaker 1: also focused on a seagull and the chimney stack at

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Speaker 1: the Cistina for hours. I actually ran into that seagull

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Speaker 1: on my way home last night, and my friend was

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Speaker 1: with me. Who he saw this, no lie and they

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Speaker 1: ordered a dove. I guess of the Holy spirit they

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Speaker 1: got a seagull better than vultures.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: We have gotten so many questions from you. I want

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Speaker 1: to get right to the conclave clue. Are you ready?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, Okay, here we go. First one for Bob.

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Speaker 1: Will the conclave be looking outside the box for a

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Speaker 1: successor of Saint Peter? How about the credentials of Bishop

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Speaker 1: Robert Barron or someone like that?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: I love Robert Baron.

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Speaker 4: I mean he's a controversial figure for some people, but

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Speaker 4: I think he's a very rock solid guy. He's very

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Speaker 4: well educated, very well spoken, speak several languages, understands really

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Speaker 4: very deeply. He understands the moment that we're in right now,

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Speaker 4: and it's a very difficult cultural moment as well as

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Speaker 4: it is an internal church moment.

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Speaker 2: But unfortunately, I think.

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Speaker 4: This time around, the bets have been laid largely that

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Speaker 4: the leading candidates are large are probably going to be

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Speaker 4: among the finalists that we're going to see, although I

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Speaker 4: think some of the ones like Padline, who are really

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Speaker 4: at the top at the beginning of their stars, have

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Speaker 4: sunk quite a bit. So we may see a surprise,

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Speaker 4: but it's very unlikely that they're going to go outside

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Speaker 4: the box, if what you mean is outside the cardinals.

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Speaker 1: Cardinals for a minute there, Bob, when you were talking

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Speaker 1: about Bishop Baron's language skills and everything, I thought I'd

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Speaker 1: have to go to ed Pentton and have them update

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Speaker 1: the College of Cardinals report and doing addendum with Baron

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Speaker 1: at the back. Maybe next time we'll do that. One

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Speaker 1: viewer wrote, father, I seriously doubt that this particular way

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Speaker 1: of voting goes back two thousand years. Well, let me,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to handle this one. It's called a tradition.

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Speaker 1: It evolved. You know, you're going to look at the

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Speaker 1: Acts of the Apostles. I did it this morning. In

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Speaker 1: Acts one, the apostles gather to prey and then vote

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Speaker 1: to cast lots if you will, to replace Judas, and

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Speaker 1: they choose between two men. Look it up. Over time,

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Speaker 1: that process evolved where you had the Priests of Rome,

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Speaker 1: then the Cardinals of Rome, then the larger College of

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Speaker 1: Cardinals by twelve seventy four. This form of gathering in

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Speaker 1: a single locked location, cut off from the world, was

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Speaker 1: formalized originally in the Quernal Palace, which it was the

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Speaker 1: seat of the Italian government. Later that moved to the

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Speaker 1: Sistine Chapel. So it does go kind of back two

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Speaker 1: thousand years, though it's evolved and the traditions have matured

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Speaker 1: with it. The beauty of the church, I think, father,

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Speaker 1: is that we bring all of that tradition into the future.

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Speaker 1: We sort of gather it up through the two millennia

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Speaker 1: and carry it, you know, to the present moment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was useful back then, it's useful now, I

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Speaker 5: mean too deep politicize.

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Speaker 3: Let's say the whole process.

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Speaker 5: There are no speeches being given in the Sistine Chapel,

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Speaker 5: and people's vote is a secret.

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Speaker 3: It's not a voice.

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Speaker 5: Vote where you could try to, you know, look at

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Speaker 5: people and persuade them to go along with you. So no,

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Speaker 5: it's a very respectful process to let people vote their conscience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like the way. I like that it

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Speaker 1: almost has a wave quality, you know, one candidate rises

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Speaker 1: and then others shift alliances because they're concerned and suddenly

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Speaker 1: somebody else comes up. There's something. Well, it's mysterious. It's mysterious.

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Speaker 1: It allows the Holy Spirit to operate a bit. Father,

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Speaker 1: this one's for you. Why the lady wrote this? I

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Speaker 1: didn't write this. Why are all the cardinals wearing red dresses? Father?

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Speaker 1: Is that a vera wang or an omani? Why are

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Speaker 1: they wearing red?

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Speaker 5: Well, it actually comes from Target, you know, tell hers, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: pretty cheap. No, they don't wear dresses. The cassock is

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Speaker 5: not a dress. The cassock is that long garment meant

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Speaker 5: that the priests wear. It's black for your ordinary priests,

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Speaker 5: and then cardinals get red. They wear because that symbolizes

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Speaker 5: that they're willing to shed their blood to promote the

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Speaker 5: faith and be faithful to Jesus Christ. So, no, the

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Speaker 5: garment has an elegance to it. I think Raymond, we

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Speaker 5: would all say, and when you're wearing red ones where

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Speaker 5: everyone else is in black, it's very striking. They stand out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the evolution of that is really something. I

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Speaker 1: mean that goes right back to Roman garb. And I

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Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of interesting Again, the church collects

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Speaker 1: up all of these bits and pieces from history and

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Speaker 1: carries it on and deserves it.

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Speaker 3: Let me throw that in.

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Speaker 5: I mean, yes, in Rome, important people were purple and

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Speaker 5: purple was the color of the nobility and the senators,

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Speaker 5: and so the church use that for the bishops. So

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Speaker 5: the bishops wear purple and the cardinals were red.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, just as a side note, a

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Speaker 1: contemporary cultural side note, one of the most visited met

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Speaker 1: Gala exhibitions at the met for the costumes and and

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Speaker 1: you know, what do you call that? Finer fashion ended

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Speaker 1: up being the year that they focused on the Catholic

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Speaker 1: Church and what it did for fashion, and it was

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Speaker 1: mostly papal regalia, and you know, cardinal and bishop's outfits.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of cool, that's what they were looking at.

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Speaker 3: Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Bob Maurene asks, is the new pope allowed to come

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Speaker 1: into the Vatican with his own entourage that he can trust?

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Speaker 1: Interesting question.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, the pope is a boss.

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Speaker 4: He can come in with whoever he wants, and presumably

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Speaker 4: he is going to want to have people around him

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Speaker 4: that he can trust. We've talked about this before that

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Speaker 4: a pope can't rule a large entity like the Catholic

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Speaker 4: Church on his own. Although we In this recent papacy,

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Speaker 4: we saw a lot of the usual offices and channels

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Speaker 4: by which the pope rules were short circuited. Pope Francis

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Speaker 4: liked himself to make a lot of decisions, but any

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Speaker 4: wise leader of a large group, in particular a pope

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Speaker 4: needs to have a large group I think actually of

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Speaker 4: trusted advisors. So it'll be interesting, as it is when

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Speaker 4: we see like a president, you know, to put together

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Speaker 4: a cabinet, it will be interesting to see who he

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Speaker 4: brings in.

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Speaker 2: Along with him.

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Speaker 4: And it's not a matter of being permitted. He's the

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Speaker 4: boss at that point, and he can he can even

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Speaker 4: reconfigure what the officers are going to be like with

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Speaker 4: the people who are going to help him, as Pope

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Speaker 4: Francis did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, we're we're we are bracing for a

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Speaker 1: big shift here one way or that. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: who the man is, he inevitably will bring his own

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Speaker 1: sensibility and put his own stamp on this papacy.

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Speaker 3: Father.

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Speaker 1: What happens if a cardinal is elected and refuses the nomination?

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Speaker 1: Someone wrote in our comments does the conclavor zoom voting?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's an excellent question, because yes, in order to

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Speaker 5: become pope, you have to accept the election. So it's

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Speaker 5: a very And it's similar if the pope names an archbishop,

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Speaker 5: let's say the Archbishop of Phoenix or somebody, and the

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Speaker 5: letter comes in and the man, the pre nominated archbishop

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Speaker 5: Phoenix says no, then he's not the Archbishop of Phoenix.

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Speaker 5: So likewise the pope can say no to the cardinals

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Speaker 5: and then in that case they would have to resume voting. Yep,

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Speaker 5: that's the way it is because it has to be

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Speaker 5: a free choice on the part of the person. And

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Speaker 5: some cardinals may say I'm not up to this job.

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Speaker 5: They may know that they have an illness that's going

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Speaker 5: to really debilitate them, or they may just say, you know, man,

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Speaker 5: you let's say they elect a man who's seventy nine

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Speaker 5: years old. He said, you know, I'm seventy nine. I'm

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Speaker 5: not going to have the energy needed to confront the

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Speaker 5: situation of the church. So it would be an active

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Speaker 5: humility actually for that man to say I'm sorry, I

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Speaker 5: do not accept this election.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they go back to another round of balloting.

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Speaker 1: Can't make them happy, They've got to be you know,

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Speaker 1: this group wasn't too happy after the long stay in Rome.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what they're going through now. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's sequestered in the in the Sistine Chapel. You know,

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Speaker 1: all you see is only outside. You see is the

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Speaker 1: boss taking you back and forth from the Santa Marta

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Speaker 1: house to the assisting travel father. Can you explain about

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Speaker 1: the three types of cardinals and what they mean? What

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Speaker 1: are those rules and are they interchangeable or do they

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Speaker 1: and can they adapt? Can they change those three types

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Speaker 1: of cardinalsn't sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Within the College of Cardinals, there are three ranks or

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Speaker 5: levels cardinal deacons, cardinal priests, and cardinal bishops. And this

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Speaker 5: reflects the practice going back many centuries in Rome, where

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Speaker 5: you would have deacons, who are the first order of

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Speaker 5: sacred orders that they were serving in Rome, and actually

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Speaker 5: in Rome they organized their church or what they're called deaconries,

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Speaker 5: and deacons were in charge of charity. So they'd have

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Speaker 5: deacons and they have priests who would serve in the

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Speaker 5: different churches. So the pope would pick some of those

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Speaker 5: deacons and priests to be sort of like important people

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Speaker 5: who would have the right then to nominate and elect

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Speaker 5: the new pope. Cardinal bishops are there from what they're

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Speaker 5: called the sub or carrion diocese, so the dioceses that

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Speaker 5: are immediately surrounding the Diocese of Rome. Those bishops were

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Speaker 5: called cardinal bishops, and it became the tradition that all

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Speaker 5: of them were then cardinals, and they had a right

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Speaker 5: to vote in the conclict. Now all of that is

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Speaker 5: now ceased from the point of view of they're these

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Speaker 5: everyone who becomes a deacon cardinal deacon is already a

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Speaker 5: priest or a bishop, and likewise cardinal priests or priests

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Speaker 5: or bishops, same with cardinal bishops. But the within the

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Speaker 5: tradition now they maintained that, for instance, the leader of

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Speaker 5: the conclave is the cardinal dean, or in his absence,

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Speaker 5: the senior cardinal bishop. So the cardinal dean and the

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Speaker 5: vice dean are both over eighty. So Cardinal Paraline, who

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Speaker 5: was the senior cardinal bishop, he is then charged inside

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Speaker 5: the Sistine chapel of the conclave, and then the cardinal deacon,

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Speaker 5: the senior one, will announce from the balcony the name

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Speaker 5: of the new pope. So there are these roles, and

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Speaker 5: then of course, like an organization, so ancient seniority has

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Speaker 5: its role.

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Speaker 3: So the bishops and priests and deacon cardinals all enter

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Speaker 3: according to their rank.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that's cool the way it's broken up. And

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Speaker 1: again you see all that history there again, the church

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Speaker 1: preserving this history. Even when things have fallen away, the classifications,

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Speaker 1: the rank, the tradition remains. Bob. Vatican two, one of

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Speaker 1: our viewers wrote, Vatican two had serious problems, even heresy

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Speaker 1: within that has not been addressed. What about the heresy

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Speaker 1: of modernism that's devastated the church in the past sixty years?

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Speaker 4: You would say, what, Well, as I mentioned earlier, I

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Speaker 4: think that Bishop Baron has a good grasp on that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, we just have to recognize that we

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Speaker 4: all live in a culture that is deeply marked by modernism,

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Speaker 4: which is to say, a kind of a materialistic scientific.

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Speaker 2: View of the world. I mean, there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 2: true science.

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Speaker 4: And the true study of the physical world, but that

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Speaker 4: has kind of encroached on our understanding of faith, of morals,

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Speaker 4: of what human beings are. Are we just animals or

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Speaker 4: are we something that go beyond that? And so I

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Speaker 4: think that this is not a cultural question that can

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Speaker 4: be solved very quickly. And some of these ambiguous statements

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Speaker 4: I would call them that came out of Vatican too,

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Speaker 4: were of course exploited by people who wanted to use

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Speaker 4: that modernism to advance progressive causes within the Church. Now,

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Speaker 4: in broader cultural terms, lots of people consider us to

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Speaker 4: be in postmodernism right now, which means that the old modernism,

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Speaker 4: that old materialism, scientific materialism, that's not so security longer.

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Speaker 4: I mean we see it in politics, we see it

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Speaker 4: in education. So there's a real opportunity for someone who

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Speaker 4: grasps deeply what's at stake, brings the graces and the

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Speaker 4: power of Christ into a culture that itself now is

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Speaker 4: searching groping around for what it's going to do. It

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Speaker 4: may take some serious restructuring of how people look back

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Speaker 4: at the Council and understand that as well. It's a

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Speaker 4: big task and it's one that I think the next

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Speaker 4: Pope has to undertake along with all the other things

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Speaker 4: that we've talked about with regard to sexual abuse, to

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Speaker 4: financial problems. That's a longer term problem, but we really

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Speaker 4: need to get on the case. John Paul and Benedict

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Speaker 4: started the response to it. I think we need to

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Speaker 4: take that forward very vigorously because in a century or so,

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Speaker 4: we could be in a very different culture unless we do.

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Speaker 1: Father. Here's an interesting question. Can a cardinal vote for

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Speaker 1: himself in a conclave?

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Speaker 5: A cardinal can vote for himself, accept in the runoff,

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Speaker 5: and it's a technicality. So yeah, a cardinal can vote

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Speaker 5: for himself in each round leading up to I guess

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Speaker 5: it's the thirty third round. So if they haven't elected

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Speaker 5: anybody by around thirty three, what they do is the

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Speaker 5: top two vote getters enter into a runoff.

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Speaker 3: The cardinals.

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Speaker 5: The two cardinals who are in that category cannot vote

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Speaker 5: for themselves, so no one could say that they were

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Speaker 5: the deciding vote for themselves. And I think that's a

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Speaker 5: wise decision.

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Speaker 1: Well that was kind of a setup for this question

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Speaker 1: that one of our viewers has submitted, who would Jesus

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Speaker 1: vote for in the conclave?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, until the runoff number one, the Good

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Speaker 5: Lord was not a cardinals, so you know he's the

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Speaker 5: he's the God incarnate who the cardinals worship and obey.

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Speaker 5: So no, and you know, in the free Will, in

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Speaker 5: the rather excuse me, in the gift of free will

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Speaker 5: to mankind, God left in the church decisions to be

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Speaker 5: made by us, not by God directly. So we believe

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Speaker 5: in providence, in God's help, but we do not believe that.

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Speaker 5: You know, God is voting in the Each cardinal votes,

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Speaker 5: and hopefully they vote in a godly way. But got

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Speaker 5: to remember there are a lot of good men in

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Speaker 5: that college, so voting for one and not another doesn't

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Speaker 5: mean you're doing something that defends God.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, when I read that question, I thought, if

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Speaker 1: Jesus walks into the Sistine Chapel, I could promise you

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Speaker 1: they'll all vacate. There'll be no need to have a

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Speaker 1: vicar of Christ if you have Christ, right. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: well wait till he goes back to heaven and then

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Speaker 1: you have another conclave. I guess here's an interesting question, Bob.

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Speaker 1: This lady, she says, I am confused as to what

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Speaker 1: the cardinal How do the cardinals vote on the fourth day?

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Speaker 1: It says they have to take a pause on the

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Speaker 1: fourth day according to the constitution of conclave that John

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Speaker 1: Pauled a second drafted or wrote promulgated. Bob, do they

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Speaker 1: take a pause for the full day for prayer and

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Speaker 1: meditation or only for part of the day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we talked about this the other day, and I

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Speaker 4: think they have some latitude in what they're going to do.

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Speaker 4: They could take the whole day off, they could take

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Speaker 4: the half day off. And I think there's a certain

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Speaker 4: prudence that if people are exhausted or they feel that

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Speaker 4: they kind of have reached an impasse about where the

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Speaker 4: vote is going, maybe it's a good thing to take

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Speaker 4: a whole day. And if it's Sunday and they back

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Speaker 4: off and they have a chance to pray, go to

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Speaker 4: Mass and have a little bit of recreation and come

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Speaker 4: back afterwards. But I don't believe there's any requirement that

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Speaker 4: this be a full day or a half day. Will

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Speaker 4: no doubt find if it gets to that stage, will

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Speaker 4: no doubt find out how much the people who are

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Speaker 4: running the actual conclave feel that they need a break.

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Speaker 3: Father.

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Speaker 1: Why do the cardinals have to change their handwriting when

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Speaker 1: writing their ballot? This viewer said, I heard that they

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Speaker 1: have to disguise their handwriting. Is that true?

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Speaker 5: It is because the voting is anonymous. When you submit

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Speaker 5: your ballots, you don't put your name on it, and

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Speaker 5: when the ballots are deposited in the urn, those who

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Speaker 5: are counters are supposed to mix them up. So that's

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Speaker 5: like if you could see the last cardinal and he's

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Speaker 5: on the top of the stack and take his name

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Speaker 5: out first.

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Speaker 3: Everybody know he voted for that person. So now the

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Speaker 3: goal here is to not allow the.

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Speaker 5: Individual names or votes to be known, so that it

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Speaker 5: can't be a form of moral persuasion or even you know,

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Speaker 5: kind of like a certain amount of coercion that you

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Speaker 5: have to vote with cardinals x set. Now, disguising handwriting

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Speaker 5: presumes that the counters will recognize the handwriting of the others.

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Speaker 5: In the modern world, very few people send letters by snail.

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Speaker 3: Mail, you know, they don't write out letters and email.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's no signature unless you use that automatic

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Speaker 5: signature thing which is always made up. So no one really,

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Speaker 5: I think, will know the handwriting. But some of them

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Speaker 5: may know the handwriting of each other. So yeah, disguising

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Speaker 5: it as best you can, that's just another means to

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Speaker 5: try to preserve the anonymity and privacy of what's happening.

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Speaker 1: And I've known older cardinals who've gone in and they

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Speaker 1: have an inframani, who's a person, you know, basically a

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Speaker 1: nurse somebody to help them, and they can if the

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Speaker 1: cardinal can't write, if they have the sheiks or a tool.

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Speaker 1: They'll write the name for them and actually do that,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't realize. But those functions those people do.

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Speaker 1: Nurses if you will, they are allowed in, but they

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Speaker 1: too are under the oath of secrecy. Bob, What could

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Speaker 1: a group of Catholic cardinals do in the case and

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Speaker 1: I'm reading this and at the moment of the election

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Speaker 1: of a cardinal who is clearly heterodox or suspected of heterodoxy,

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Speaker 1: between the very brief moment of the proclamation of the

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Speaker 1: result of the vote and the moment when the elected

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Speaker 1: cardinal accepts the office, is there an option that would

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Speaker 1: allow Catholic cardinals to oppose an election on the grounds

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Speaker 1: that the elected man is not Catholic, is not truly Poppibaly.

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Speaker 4: I think the answer, unfortunately, is there's nothing that they

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Speaker 4: can do that. It's kind of like the popular vote

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Speaker 4: in a presidential election or whatever other type of election.

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Speaker 4: If the process has been followed, one hopes that both

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Speaker 4: because of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the

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Speaker 4: prudence of the men in the room, that that would

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Speaker 4: not result in somebody who was obviously and openly heretical.

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Speaker 4: That would have been worked out before that I can't

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Speaker 4: imagine how they would know that at that given moment.

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Speaker 4: But it's a good thing to raise these issues because,

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Speaker 4: you know, funny things happen in the course of elections

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Speaker 4: and whatnot, and we know, you know people we started

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Speaker 4: out talking about how the conclave has not always been

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Speaker 4: carried out in this formula. We've had periods when there's

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Speaker 4: more than one pope and decisions have to be made

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Speaker 4: about who was actually the legitimate pope, and there have

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Speaker 4: been long periods of no pope at Also, we tend

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Speaker 4: to see these things the way we see other events

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Speaker 4: on television and through social media. In fact, someone has

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Speaker 4: said this is the first social media conclave where there's

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Speaker 4: almost instantaneous respect to what's happening.

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Speaker 2: And so if.

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Speaker 4: People were watching this see a figure who's elected who

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Speaker 4: they suspect of heterodoxy, they're gonna, you know, they're going

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Speaker 4: to react and they're hope that that someone can be saved.

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Speaker 4: This is a different kind of process. This is is

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Speaker 4: a slower, older type of process, and that can be frustrating,

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Speaker 4: but at the same time it may provide some safeguards.

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Speaker 1: Next question, what do the cardinals do in between votes?

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Speaker 1: Father do they talk amongst themselves. Do they get up

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Speaker 1: and speak, do they read? Do they pray? What's the

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Speaker 1: protocol for dinner's lunches and the in between periods in

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Speaker 1: the Sistine Chapel. I'll let you both talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 5: No, well, all of the above. You know, they're once

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Speaker 5: they leave the Sistine Chapel, then they're going to be

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Speaker 5: able to speak to each other. They get on the

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Speaker 5: bus which takes them that short distance from the Sistine

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Speaker 5: Chapel around the back of Saint Peter's over to the

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Speaker 5: Saint Martha House.

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Speaker 3: Inside they can take.

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Speaker 5: A walk, you know, around that area where there's a

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Speaker 5: sort of like parking lot air in front of Saint Martha's.

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Speaker 5: The better said, and then the Vatican gardens are up

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Speaker 5: the hill a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: They can certainly go in and discuss at dinner. They

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Speaker 5: can also relax with a book. But they can't do

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Speaker 5: is call anybody, send emails, listen to the radio, watch television,

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Speaker 5: watch the Royal Grande podcast. They can't do any of that.

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Speaker 5: So and I guess our shot. I know, but no,

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Speaker 5: it's you know they are. It's it's similar to being

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Speaker 5: on a retreat because there are times of prayer and silence,

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Speaker 5: and certainly that's what's happening in the Sistine Chapel. But no,

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Speaker 5: in fact, those are the times when they can look

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Speaker 5: at compare notes and say, well, we think Cardinal X

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Speaker 5: is the right one, but he couldn't get enough votes,

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Speaker 5: and now I'm going to go for Cardinal Y.

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Speaker 3: What do you think?

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Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah, that's when the that's when the heavy the

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Speaker 1: heavy pressure and the politicking sort of begins.

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Speaker 2: Bob.

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Speaker 1: But I was told that they whisper and talk to

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Speaker 1: the people aside them in the in the Sistine Chapel

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, look, they're they're they're free because they are

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Speaker 4: actually behind kind of a paywall, if we want to

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Speaker 4: put it that way, right, you know, I sometimes worry

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Speaker 4: how how much behind uh anonymity they actually are. I mean,

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Speaker 4: they take all these steps, they bring in, you know,

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Speaker 4: security experts to sweep for bugs. But we've seen in

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Speaker 4: the past that in such events somehow always managed to

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Speaker 4: leak it to a certain extent, if not immediately then

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Speaker 4: then after the fact. And they're not supposed to even

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Speaker 4: leak after the fact. That right, Look, this is all

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Speaker 4: to the good. The more that they talk with one another.

435
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 4: The more the possibilities are working out some things, understanding

436
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 4: who's who. We keep saying over and over again, they

437
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 4: don't know each other very well. And maybe in that circumstance,

438
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 4: which is a bit of a pressure pressure cooker, I mean,

439
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 4: I think, you know, there's the outlet of prayer and

440
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 4: relaxation and whatnot, But in that pressure cooker, you may

441
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 4: begin to see things about people's characters. It will help you,

442
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 4: how that, to see how they will operate when they're

443
00:22:58,920 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 4: in the pressure cooker.

444
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: Being the pope, yeah, father, speak to that for a moment.

445
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: The I mean, when Pope Francis was elected, suddenly you know,

446
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: there was a journalist, Austin Ivory who came out with

447
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: a book. He had letter in verse of not only

448
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: the agreements made before the conclave, but conversations had in

449
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: the vote com I mean today he was sending out

450
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: the vote com Oh. At this point, Francis was already

451
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: up ten points. I thought this was supposed to be

452
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: secret under penalty of excommunication.

453
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 5: Now that's actually the canon law. It's supposed to remain.

454
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 5: So you're not supposed to speak about anything concerning the election.

455
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 5: Now that doesn't mean you can't say I walked in

456
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 5: and my seat was uncomfortable because it was a plastic

457
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 5: you know, wooden bench.

458
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: Rather, that was not a nice seat. That's trivia.

459
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 5: But you cannot come in and say, you know, I

460
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 5: saw a cardinal Lets get up and then everybody was smiling.

461
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 5: And no, you're supposed to keep it all secret, but

462
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 5: people do leak. This is one of the had realities

463
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 5: of the modern world that people do not take odes seriously.

464
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 5: And this we see it in courts of law, and

465
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 5: now we see it.

466
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:09,719
Speaker 3: You're right.

467
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 5: There have been many books written about how the voting

468
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 5: went in the last papal conclave and it's stunning. Now

469
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 5: I'll say I'll be completely honest here. Poe Francis himself

470
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 5: talked about yes, he did the voting subsequently, and people

471
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 5: noted that, wait a minute, you're not supposed to do that.

472
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 5: Now you could say, since he's the lawgiver, he could

473
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 5: dispense himself from observing that law post facto.

474
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: But you know the.

475
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 5: Casualness nowadays with which people assume, well, we say that

476
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 5: for public consumption, but in reality we call our journalist friends.

477
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: That's something I think that needs to be stamped out.

478
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, I saw it today. I'm walking I'm walking

479
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: home from the from the Vatican. There are people on

480
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: the phone after the first vote, and they're relating tallies

481
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: and I hear this one's moving up, and that one's

482
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: in the li and this one lost some votes. I'm like,

483
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: what app are these people on?

484
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been looking at the Italian press, which is

485
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 4: not always reliable. In fact, it's quite unreliable, but they

486
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: are very reliable in that they convey every rumor that

487
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 4: there is floating around in it and around the room

488
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 4: at the same time.

489
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

490
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: I mean there's a story that was told. This is

491
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 4: an interesting story by Messagero that before they closed the

492
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 4: doors today, the Cardinal Ray, who gave the homily at

493
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: the final Mass before they possessed into the conclave, said

494
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 4: to Cardinal Paroline, he used an expression that I've never

495
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 4: heard before, alguti dopey. He says double good fortune. And

496
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 4: since he's a leading candidate the way that the Italians

497
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 4: are interpreting this and Cardinal rays a little hard of hearing,

498
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: so he said it really loudly, so that everybody heard

499
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 4: it as he.

500
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: Was going in.

501
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 4: What they heard that this as meaning is I hope

502
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 4: you win number one, but also I hope you do

503
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 4: well in managing, because he's also the manager of.

504
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: What's going on inside the room there.

505
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 4: So this is kind of thing that the Italians look

506
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 4: at and they think that maybe it's going to tell

507
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 4: things one way or another. I'm a little skeptical, but

508
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 4: it's interesting the way that they read every tiny detail.

509
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: Every utterance. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Are you looking

510
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: for financial management that reflects your deepest values? Taylor for

511
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: Gone Capital Management actively manages portfolios designed for those who

512
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: prioritize faith, family, and long term stewardship throughout their mutual fund,

513
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: separately managed accounts, or family office accounts. Taylor for Gone

514
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: Capital values driven investing to support your faith, family, and

515
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: finances there at Taylorfogne dot com. Bob, what should the

516
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: Pope elect do to help resolve and correct the China

517
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: deal that remains secretive?

518
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 4: One of our viewers, right, Oh man, this is a

519
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 4: hard question.

520
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: I know.

521
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, if it's Cardinal Paroline, it's I mean, it's his baby,

522
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 4: so he's going to have to go back on some

523
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 4: of the things that he did there. Still, you know,

524
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 4: we don't know what's in there. But we do know

525
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 4: that the Chinese they're just running ahead with naming bishops

526
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 4: and reforming dioceses and and actually changing the way that

527
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 4: that masses are said inside the church with President G's

528
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 4: image there, and they're trying to cynicize all religions, and

529
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 4: especially the Catholic Church because of the Catholic Church as

530
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 4: a what they regard as a foreign leader. I don't

531
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 4: know what they can do. I think the first thing

532
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 4: to do is to publish the accord. They aren't supposed

533
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 4: to be private accords like this in the modern world.

534
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 4: They should publish that. People should be able to know

535
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 4: what the details are so they can at least criticize

536
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 4: the Chinese if they're doing something they're not supposed to

537
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 4: be doing. But I think this is the to take

538
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 4: a much more severe approach, and it may it's going

539
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 4: to require them to be willing to confront China. They

540
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: haven't been willing to confront Cuba and Nicaragua and Venezuela lately,

541
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 4: which had been putting a lot of pressure in Catholic priests.

542
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 4: But it's not only the matter of a diplomatic arrangement.

543
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 4: This is also the life and death of ordinary lay people,

544
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 4: priests and bishops in China, and we can't abandon them.

545
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 4: We need some vigorous action to rescue them.

546
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: You know, Bob, it's interesting to say that I ran

547
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: into a few African and South American cardinals and they

548
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: were mentioning John Paul. We need a John Pole the

549
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: second like pope because of what you just raised. He

550
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: did confront Nicaragua, he did confront the Russian regime. He

551
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: did confront these fascists and demanded religious freedom in them

552
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: and brought the moral suasion of the church. I know

553
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: it's a balancing act, but a fellow like Perline, I

554
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: don't think he'll ever roll that back. But I think

555
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: the next pope pastor not only expose it, but roll

556
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: it back. It's it's it's outrageous. Father, which continent besides

557
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: Europe one of our viewers' rites is most likely to

558
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: produce the next Pope?

559
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 3: Well, my estimation is would be Africa.

560
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 5: You know, if we get a European this time, who

561
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: knows how long he'll reign over the church as pope.

562
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 5: But you know, the African Church is growing all the time,

563
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 5: and the African cardinals, you know, assume, you know, great

564
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 5: relevance in the life of the churches. They represent an

565
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 5: area where Christianity is not dying. It's sad to say

566
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 5: in Europe statistically, Christianity is losing numbers and influence in

567
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 5: an unimaginable way. You know, if you think at the

568
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 5: end of the Second World War, when Christianity was viewed

569
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 5: as the renewal force to try and bring back a

570
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 5: continent which have been destroyed by two worlds wars, and

571
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 5: look at it today where Christianity is on the run

572
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 5: in almost every single European nation. Eastern Europe is apart

573
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 5: where there is a revival. But so I think Africa

574
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 5: would be that they answer that question would be where the.

575
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: Next a pope? Now, where the future will come from?

576
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: Which wouldn't be the first time. In the early centuries

577
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: of the Church we had a string of Africans, mostly

578
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: from Tunisia, right.

579
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, North Africa.

580
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were you know the Roman North Africa is

581
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 5: the Roman province, so the Christianity spread there.

582
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Bob william asks why are the older cardinals over

583
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: eighty not allowed in the conclave, and especially why not

584
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: allow them to be involved given that their knowledge is unparalleled.

585
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a bit of a sore point.

586
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 4: But look, look, you have to have rules about when

587
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: when people can be active in an organization, when when

588
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 4: they cannot. I mean, it's simply the case in the

589
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: Catholic Cheurche that bishops at age seventy five are supposed

590
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: to send a letter to the Holy Father presenting their resignation.

591
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 4: The Pope can accept it right at that moment, or

592
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 4: we can say, well, you know, I want you to

593
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 4: stay on. Very often people will stay on. Cardinal Dolan

594
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 4: from New York, for example, his past seventy five, but

595
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 4: he hasn't been removed from his position as Cardinal Archbishop

596
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 4: of New York. Look, we've all known people over eighty

597
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 4: years old. Some of them are very wise. I think

598
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 4: of Cardinal zen who was just he's a dynamo, he's

599
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: still got all his marbles, he's got energy, he's got courage.

600
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 4: But how many and he's over ninety, how many people

601
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 4: over eighty would be would you want to trust to

602
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 4: have that degree of lucidity? And if you make an

603
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 4: exception for one, why not another? And then you get

604
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: into a whole quarrel over that.

605
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: So it's a rule. In some cases it's.

606
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 4: Probably unjust, but it would be unjust no matter how

607
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 4: you kind of cut it. So you make a decision

608
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 4: and that's how it goes for.

609
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it was Paul the six rule, right, father, Yeah, Yeah,

610
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 6: Can I throw in on this one, yeah, because yeah,

611
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 6: Paul the Six put that rule in place, and it

612
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 6: was understood at the time to be an effort to

613
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 6: diminish the influence of older, presumably more conservative.

614
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 3: Cardinals in the next papal election.

615
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 5: The irony is, of course that you cannot vote for

616
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 5: a pope if you're over eighty, but you can be

617
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 5: a pope if you're overeatey.

618
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: So you know.

619
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 5: Which is more important. Being a pope is more important

620
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 5: than voting for one. So if you can do the greater,

621
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 5: you can do the lesser. That's the usual principle of law.

622
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 5: So I think I also say the retirement of bishops

623
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 5: of seventy five is not of that was only introduced.

624
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 5: Also after the Second Vatican Council we got into the

625
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 5: managerial mindset of efficiency, I think, you know, which is

626
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 5: remember the managerial revolution after the Second World War.

627
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: You know, we're going to fix the world's problems by

628
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 3: better man. The jury is in on that.

629
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, I don't think I don't think we should

630
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 5: have these rules because I would much rather have cardinals

631
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 5: Zen voting than simply being an advisor to the others.

632
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: Because he's a man of extreme lucidity and experience.

633
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then people look to the elders, particularly if

634
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: they're venerable like Zen and have been through the fires

635
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: of you know, facing down a regime like China and

636
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: still you know, waving the flag. Here's father. This is

637
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: one for you. Why can't there be an American pope?

638
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: There can be.

639
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 5: It's just, you know, the church exists in history, so

640
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 5: historical factors have to be examined, you know. I mean

641
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 5: my colleague here, Bob Royal, has written the whole history

642
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 5: of theology in the twentieth century. You have to look

643
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 5: at the way things develop, you know, theologians react to

644
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 5: secular trends and then challenges and then biblical studies and

645
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 5: all the rest. So on a political scene, I would say,

646
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 5: what position does America operate in the world? Back in

647
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 5: the eighteen fifth these we were a mission territory since

648
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 5: the Second World War, with a unique dominant power opposing

649
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 5: for the Communists and now other forces China and the rest.

650
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 5: So I think the idea would be the dominant secular

651
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 5: power should not also have one of its members be

652
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 5: the head of the chur church honor.

653
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 3: But I'd been through what Bob had to say.

654
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, that's the concern, right, you don't want the

655
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: superpower having the other superpower.

656
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: I don't know.

657
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: I think you're running, Bob. That's why you were talking

658
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: all those cardinals this week. You were trying to slip

659
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: them the bill.

660
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 4: I mean, look, if they were the proper candidate. And

661
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 4: some people think that the Cardinal Prevost, who has been

662
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: the head of the bishops the committee that selects the bishops,

663
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 4: and spend time in Latin America is a front runner.

664
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 4: He's a possibility, even though he kind of just appeals

665
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 4: to some of the Latin America because he spent time

666
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 4: in Latin America, and of course he's been in Rome

667
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 4: a lot. I just don't know what kind of pope

668
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 4: he would be. I think an American who spent more

669
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 4: time in America would have a better grasp on a

670
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 4: lot of what's.

671
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: Going on in the world.

672
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 4: It's not necessary that a pope grasp you know geopolitical things.

673
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 4: Certainly Pope Francis did not.

674
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: John Paul did.

675
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 4: Jean Paul happened to be a man who came from

676
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 4: a country where he was in the midst of everything

677
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: that was going on in the world at that moment.

678
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 4: But why not, you know, there could be an American

679
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 4: at some point. I think at this moment there's a

680
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 4: fair degree of anti Americanism, and I think the Trump

681
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 4: factor would maybe play into that as well, unfortunately, But

682
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 4: anybody can become a pope, any person from any country

683
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 4: around the world, and we may be surprised even this

684
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 4: time around.

685
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,959
Speaker 1: Do you feel as I look out as I talked

686
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: to so many of these men and we all did

687
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: this week, it seems that this is why I kind

688
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: of when I heard Prevost and so started looking at

689
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: him and reading and watching interviews. It seems the pope now,

690
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: the pope that everyone collectively is yearning for, whether they

691
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: give you a name or not, is a sturdy man.

692
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 1: John Paul was that sort of sturdy man of faith

693
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: who had kind of been through the fires and was

694
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: ready to complete the mission and declare the Gospel in

695
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: a compelling way that came from a lived experience. Father,

696
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Am I totally off base? Is that? Do you feel

697
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: that that's sort of where we are now.

698
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 5: I think there's a desire for, you know, a strong

699
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 5: father figure and you know, and you know, this is

700
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 5: where you know, somebody said once, you know, gentleness is

701
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 5: a sign of true strength, and I think that's what

702
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 5: we all expect from our dads. You know, they lay

703
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 5: down the law, but then you know they restrained the

704
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 5: punishment to a degree in order to teach us good lessons.

705
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 5: So you know, that's one reason why African cardinals are

706
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 5: so attractive. You know, I've dealt with African parishioners in

707
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 5: New York. One of my parents was majority African parishioners.

708
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 5: They were French speaking. I have two African priests with me. Now,

709
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 5: you know, Africa is a place where Christianity really was

710
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 5: light to get people out of the fear of paganism

711
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 5: and to bring to them, you know, the true fatherhood

712
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 5: of God and brothership in Christ. So I think, you know,

713
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: that is a very important factor. Now Africans aren't the

714
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 5: only ones can do that, you know, again, going back

715
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 5: to cardinals, en, we're talked about if there was ever

716
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 5: a father figure it's him. You know, his flock is

717
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 5: being persecuted by communists and he opens his mouth and

718
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 5: says stop. Jimmy lay Sarah would also fit the bill.

719
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: I mean he faced down a fascist regime down there

720
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: Obongo the same. I mean, these people suffer for their faith.

721
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: Of some of the Sudanese bishops, they've got, you know,

722
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: marauding groups of Islamisists burning down villages and killing people.

723
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: So they know what it means to suffer for the

724
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: faith in the way that we in the West. You know,

725
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to play golf today. I'm going to skip

726
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: the masks. Our African brothers and sisters don't understand that approach.

727
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 5: I'll just throw in Nigerian bishops, you know, the cardinals

728
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 5: in Nigeria are as Bob has recently said in a

729
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 5: public presentation, no country in the world has suffered as

730
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 5: many executions of Christians, i e. Martyrdoms than Nigeria.

731
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to there are a couple of other

732
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: questions here. I'm going to try to get this quickly

733
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: in what was the actual state of liturgical practice in

734
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: the church before that it can too and they're asking

735
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your views on the role of

736
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: Latin in the Church. It seems discussion center on one

737
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: pole of the other tridentine or no Latin at all.

738
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: Perhaps we could intstoll more Latin in the and keep

739
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: the homilies in the vernacular. Bob, I'll start with you.

740
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of what Benedict the sixteenth was

741
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish.

742
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, some people who write for us at

743
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 4: the cat thing and who are advocates of Latin, as

744
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 4: I myself am, have pointed to the fact that during

745
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 4: Vatican Two a lot of the speeches were in Latin,

746
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 4: which not all the cardinals, bishops, et cetera at that

747
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 4: time understood very well. So some of the problems that

748
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 4: we see in the end, may I've had something to

749
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 4: do with that. We've seen in this past week that

750
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 4: there's a lot of Latin that is being used, as

751
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 4: in this run up to the conclive and even in

752
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 4: the entry into the Conclive. And this really puts a

753
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: question in front of us because if it's not going

754
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: to be Latin, which is you know, you know, you

755
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 4: say whatever you want about Latin, it is the historic

756
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 4: official language of the Western Church, going back to the

757
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 4: last The first few centuries of the Church actually started

758
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 4: kind of in Greek but moved into into a Latin format.

759
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 4: But what language is going to be the official language

760
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 4: of the Vatican Otherwise, I mean that there has to

761
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 4: be some some medium in which everybody can can discuss.

762
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 4: And not everybody speaks Italian, by the way, So you

763
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 4: know some people who proposed that English should now become

764
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 4: the official language or at least the working language in

765
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 4: the Vatican, because it's much more likely that people can

766
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 4: handle that than to have studied it. They probably have

767
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 4: to have studied in Rome to know Italian.

768
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: But this question is not going to go away.

769
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 4: There needs to be a universal language, and either it's

770
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 4: going to be the universal language of the Old Empire

771
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 4: or it's going to be the language or the New Empire. Probably,

772
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 4: And that also touches on turgical matters which I'm not

773
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 4: going to touch, but I'll leave to the cannadist to explain.

774
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: Okay, resident candidates, you're up, so I'll start by me.

775
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: Don't speak in Latin though.

776
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 5: No, no, well, bell leaeve the lingual Latin side. No,

777
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 5: I want to endorse a Bob just said English should

778
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 5: be the language of the curia, and the reason being

779
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 5: it's the language that most the largest number of Catholics

780
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 5: in the world either speak and English as the first

781
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 5: language or learned it. So therefore it's useful. It's not

782
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 5: because of anglosphere domination, just the reality. I mean, we're

783
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 5: just following Hollywood and the economic world. The diplomat French

784
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 5: is no longer the diplomatic language of choice. So and

785
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 5: it would be very useful, I would say, because yet

786
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 5: we're never going to recover spoken Latin in the church.

787
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 5: And part of the reason is when you when the

788
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 5: liturgy became vernacular, there was no need for priests to

789
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 5: learn Latin anymore. So now priests who do learn Latin

790
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 5: have a particular interest in it, but there are very

791
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 5: few Latin teachers who can go all over the world

792
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 5: and spread this knowledge. So it's I regret that and

793
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 5: maybe that can be revived and you know, now back,

794
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 5: let's go to liturgy. Yeah, the liturgical practice before the

795
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 5: council is a great treasure and value and hopefully, you know,

796
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 5: we can go back to the John poll second Benedict approach,

797
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 5: which is let both forms of the liturgy it coexists

798
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 5: and influence each other.

799
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 3: Because for those who do take the trouble to.

800
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 5: Learn Latin and pray in it, you know, peace and

801
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 5: joy come from that beautiful association with the historic worship.

802
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: Of the Church. For people who go to the New Mass,

803
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: which is in the vernacular, they've come to learn to

804
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: appreciate that, and that should be allowed to continue. Also, yeah, yeah,

805
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: that's a great point.

806
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: And he did try to reconcile the Latin and the

807
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: tradition of the Church with the vernacular, and they do

808
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: fit together. They can fit and enrich one another. To

809
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: pity that with stup. Okay, here's a question that came in.

810
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: I've been giving a lot of these questions, so it's

811
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: a good way to answer it. Are you going to

812
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: be live during the conclave? Are you all going to

813
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: be on site at Saint Peter's. Well, I'll take first

814
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: crack at this. We're all going to be live, but

815
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: we're going to be at different networks. I'll be on

816
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: Fox News, Fathers on Newsmax. Bob has been bouncing around

817
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: several different networks. We're doing the world over on Thursday,

818
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: but e WTM decided not to have us anchor their

819
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: live coverage, And to be very clear, because I've heard

820
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: a lot of erroneous things over the last few of

821
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: the days, this was not our decision. In fact, we

822
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: paid our own way to come here to make ourselves

823
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: available to e WT, and you know, for whatever reason,

824
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: they decided to go in a different direction. So unless

825
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: anybody else wants to chime in on that, I'll leave

826
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: that one there. Question from down under, what do we

827
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: laity do if we get a bad pope?

828
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 4: We all head to the back country in Australia and

829
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 4: pray like grace.

830
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 2: Look, you know.

831
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 4: This may be sound like a flip answer, but every

832
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 4: human being is bad to a certain extent.

833
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: We're all sinners.

834
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 4: Every pope is going to have, you know, limitations. John

835
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 4: Paul wasn't a particularly really good administrator. Benedictine wasn't either,

836
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 4: but they were great men, great great men in various ways.

837
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: What you do with you, you do what a Catholic does.

838
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,479
Speaker 4: You go to Mass, you go to confession, you bring

839
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: your children upright, you practice charity, you keep your faith

840
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 4: and don't allow extraneous especially in this media environment where

841
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 4: every day everything has to be a you know, histrionic

842
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 4: and dramatic and it's the end of the world. I mean,

843
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 4: our faith is in the name of the Lord who

844
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 4: made heaven in earth. This affair goes right. So if

845
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 4: he made heaven on earth, he can probably keep us

846
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 4: on the right track, you know, even if there is

847
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 4: a bad But we're more, even more than one bad

848
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 4: pope in a row, so be a Catholic.

849
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll work.

850
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: Father, you're what should the lady do if we get a.

851
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 5: Bit, Well, they had to have faith in God and

852
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 5: continue to pray, remain faithful to the doctrine of the faith.

853
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 5: You know, I'm reflecting back. You know, we had immoral

854
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 5: popes in the in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance period,

855
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 5: and I can't remember which pope was, but he made

856
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 5: the statement he had illegitimate children. That's the lead into it.

857
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 5: He said, in all the world calls me father, except

858
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 5: my children call me uncle, you know, because that's that's

859
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 5: how they were explaining to the children why they're close

860
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 5: he's your uncle, whereas he loved with their father. So

861
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 5: we can laugh about that. Of course, on chastity is

862
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 5: not his immortal sin, and it's a horrible thing.

863
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, we faithful.

864
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 5: I mean, we've had so many problems. The Reformation was

865
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 5: a time of great upheaval. Now, the popes, you know,

866
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 5: defended the Catholic Church against the Protestant Reformers, but many

867
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 5: clergy didn't and they fell in with it. And then

868
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 5: of course secular rules persecuted. I mean here in Rome

869
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 5: we have the Venerable English College, which sent countless priests

870
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 5: back to England to be martyred. So, you know, if

871
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 5: they could be faithful in the midst of turbulence, we

872
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 5: can too.

873
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: And when you look at the really bad popes and

874
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: the venal ones, some of whom you mentioned, Father, they

875
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: did leave this amazing art and architecture. You know, they

876
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: there was something that they were used for to contribute

877
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: to the ages, even though they were pretty despicable characters themselves.

878
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 1: But God is away of taking care of those people,

879
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: and he has the final judgment.

880
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 3: Thank God.

881
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: The Arroyo Grande Conclave crew, we'll close it out there.

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00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: This Vatican addition will continue. Don't miss our next episode.

883
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: Subscribe to a Royal Grande Show on YouTube or a

884
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 1: Royal Grande podcast wherever you get yours. And this episode

885
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: is brought to you by our friends at Taylor for

886
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: gone Capital Management, Faith, family and finances. Visit them at

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00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: Taylorforgan dot com. On behalf of Robert Royal father Gerald Murray.

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00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: We will convene again, gentlemen. I'm Raim at Royo from

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00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: Rome Joo Arroyo. Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart

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00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 1: Podcasts and is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever

891
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:54,040
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