1 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and 2 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: we have a quick update. 3 00:01:13,839 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something 4 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,439 Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it 5 00:01:18,479 --> 00:01:21,719 Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we 6 00:01:21,839 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we 7 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: didn't remember. 8 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so 9 00:01:28,199 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to 10 00:01:30,919 --> 00:01:33,439 Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping 11 00:01:33,559 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most 12 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to 13 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: gain value from them. 14 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy 15 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will love. 16 00:01:48,639 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: Just as much. 17 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,679 Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked, 18 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts. 19 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called 20 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life, 21 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You 22 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website dot com. 23 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile, 24 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapists sessions as valuable 25 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers, 26 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,159 Speaker 1: I'm Laur Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should 27 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist's Advice 28 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic. 29 00:02:30,399 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: And I'm Guy Winch. I wrote Emotional First Aid, and 30 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: I write the Dear Guy column for Ted And this 31 00:02:36,519 --> 00:02:39,559 Speaker 3: is Dear Therapists. This week we'll talk through a problem 32 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: familiar to a lot of people, a breakup and a 33 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 3: broken heart. 34 00:02:43,079 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 4: It makes me sad because I kind of keep thinking like, 35 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 4: is there something that I could have done differently or better? 36 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 5: And they don't have the answer to the question. It's 37 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 5: just Oh, I just don't love you, and that's what hurts. 38 00:02:53,839 --> 00:02:56,999 Speaker 1: Listen in and maybe learn something about yourself and the process. 39 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: Before we begin, just a note about today's episode. As 40 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: of this taping, we're still in the midst of COVID 41 00:03:07,959 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: nineteen and as a result, we are all taping from home, 42 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: and because homes can be full of background noises and 43 00:03:14,839 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: signs of life that you wouldn't get in a recording studio, 44 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: you may notice some of that in this episode. Before 45 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: we worked all the kinks out. Thanks for your understanding, 46 00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: and here we go with episode one of Dear Therapists. 47 00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy it. So guy, I saw this 48 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: letter in our box this week and I wanted to 49 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: bring it to you, specifically because of the ted talk 50 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: that you did on how to fix a broken heart. 51 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: And this is a letter about heartbreak and here's how 52 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: it goes, Dear Therapists. I'm going through a breakup and 53 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: having a hard time. My boyfriend and I had been 54 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: dating for nine months when I made the decision to 55 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,279 Speaker 1: break up with him after a month of him telling 56 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: me he loved me but wasn't sure if it was 57 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: in the right way. It was so hurtful. He couldn't 58 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: explain why his feelings had changed your when he also 59 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to work on it, but he wanted to 60 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: be friends. The relationship wasn't perfect. While we were dating. 61 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: He started using drugs recreationally and his drinking was becoming 62 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: a problem for me. I knew I had to end 63 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: it after trying my best to talk about how I 64 00:04:22,039 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: was feeling and having it fall on deaf ears. I 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: was confused because he said that I was perfect, yet 66 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: he wasn't feeling it, but didn't have the courage to 67 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: break up with me until I ended it with him. 68 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: We tried to keep in touch for a week or 69 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 1: two after splitting up, but I couldn't maintain the facade, 70 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: and it was giving me false hope that he'd realized 71 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: what he'd lost and come back to me. He didn't 72 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: and hasn't. Now I'm haunted by questions like why wasn't 73 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: I enough for him? What happened to make him love 74 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: me differently or cause him to change? I worry that 75 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: he'll find someone else and treat her better and love her. 76 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: I'm worried I was the problem. We need to arrange 77 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: swapping our stuff once the lockdown has lifted, which is 78 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: making me anxious. I'm angry and sad and keep bursting 79 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: into tears sporadically. I'm just exhausted. I haven't been able 80 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 1: to sleep. Do you have any advice for me? Many? Thanks? Srina? 81 00:05:13,919 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 3: Okay, good? First of all, good for her, really good 82 00:05:18,039 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: for her for doing the breaking up. That there are 83 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 3: many people in that situation that just stay in this 84 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: very painful position of being with someone who they can 85 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: tell doesn't love them enough, but they stay hoping something 86 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: will change, which it often doesn't usually doesn't. So her 87 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: healthy response of saying, look, if you're not feeling it, 88 00:05:38,599 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 3: then let's not I think there's a really healthy response, 89 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 3: and good for her for putting the plug. Certainly she 90 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: needed to. 91 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's one of those things 92 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: where she thinks that something changed. She says, he couldn't 93 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: explain why what he's feeling changed or when, but he 94 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: also didn't want to work on it, and he wanted 95 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: to be friends. And I think that that's what's so 96 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: confusing for people is when you want when the person 97 00:06:05,719 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: likes you enough to want to be friends with you, 98 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: but they didn't want to be with you in the 99 00:06:11,599 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: way they didn't feel, you know, that they were in 100 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: love with you. People feel like, well, why I did 101 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: something to make this happen, as opposed to maybe it's 102 00:06:19,719 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: just not the right match. 103 00:06:21,599 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: Well, what happens is that at first there's this level 104 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 3: of infatuation. Typically that happens, which is temporary. That's infatuation 105 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: is the heavy stuff that people get excited about at 106 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: the beginning. It can last, you know, a date, and 107 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 3: it can last for a while. But once the infatuation 108 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 3: starts to fade and then there's a more realistic assessment 109 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 3: of the relationship. Then it either transitions into something that's deeper, 110 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 3: you know, in terms of love and a deeper kind 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: of romantic love and the passion is still there, or 112 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: it just doesn't make that leap. But this is not 113 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,239 Speaker 3: about her doing something that changed his feelings. It's about 114 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 3: something between the chemistry of those two didn't allow his 115 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 3: feelings to make the leap. 116 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: But I think that it's important to not blame oneself, 117 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: but to explore and be curious about what didn't work. 118 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: Has this happened to her before, what might have been 119 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: happening here, Not because there's something wrong with her at all, 120 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: just because maybe there was something. I think there are 121 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: two people, you know, in a relationship, and so he 122 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: had his role in it and she had her role 123 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: in it, And just to be aware of her own 124 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: role in whatever might have happened. And I think there's 125 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: this other part of it that has nothing to do 126 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: with him that's helpful for her to consider too, which 127 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: is when you get into a new relationship, there's always 128 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: so much hope that this is going to be it, 129 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: This is going to be the one I will not 130 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: be dating anymore. You know, this is my person, and 131 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: I think that when it doesn't work out, there's the 132 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: loss of the actual person, but there's also the loss 133 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: of the idea that you were done dating, and that 134 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: is its own loss that is unrelated to the person 135 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: that is no longer there. And then there's a third loss, 136 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: which is just the loss of what it's like to 137 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: be in a relationship, which is the dailiness of it. 138 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: The person that you tell what happened today, the person 139 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: you check in with every day, the person you're cooking 140 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: dinner with, so all of that. Then you have to 141 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: go back to square one again. The more number of 142 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: times that you do this, the harder it is every 143 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: time when you have to start over a square one. 144 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: I agree. 145 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: I think I so agree with what you said, because 146 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 3: I think that that loss of the dream is often 147 00:08:39,079 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 3: bigger than the loss of the person. 148 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: Yes, you're listening to dear Therapists from my Heart Radio. 149 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: We'll be back after a quick break. 150 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 3: This is Deo therapist. Thanks for listening. 151 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk to her and get some more information 152 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: and then give her some. 153 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: Excited to find out some more. 154 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: Well. Strina, welcome and thank you. So much for sending 155 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,759 Speaker 1: us your letter. I think it's something that so many 156 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: people are doing with right now, and we would love 157 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: to give you some guidance on this and also hear 158 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: a little bit more about what's going on. 159 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 4: That would be wonderful. Thank you for inviting me. 160 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 3: You are very very welcome. And let me just say 161 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 3: heartbreak is rough to begin with. It's really rough during 162 00:09:27,079 --> 00:09:30,879 Speaker 3: a shutdown, because that makes everything a little bit more difficult. 163 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 3: I think you said it was a nine month relationship. 164 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: I'm just curious about what you might have noticed or 165 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 3: what things that registered may be problematic. 166 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 4: Well, we met at a party and he was sort 167 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 4: of not sort of a mutual friend of ours, but 168 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 4: she was quite into him and he didn't really feel 169 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 4: the same way. And he did kind of meet her 170 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 4: on and she was an old friend of mine. That 171 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 4: was my first sort of thing of like, oh, I 172 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 4: don't know if I want to get involved in this. 173 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 4: So I actually said in the first instance, like no, 174 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 4: I'm not interested. We left it for two weeks and 175 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 4: then he called me just to say, look, I just 176 00:10:08,879 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: wanted to make sure that you're okay, because that said 177 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: friend had started sending me really horrible messages and to 178 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 4: him as well, and he sort of apologized on her 179 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 4: behalf and said to me that what he did was 180 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:20,999 Speaker 4: wrong and he shouldn't have done it, but he really 181 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 4: wants to take me out on a date and blah blah. 182 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 4: So then we ended up going on a date and 183 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 4: it kind of ignited very quickly, and I was a 184 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 4: bit anxious about that, but it was also nice because 185 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 4: I was engaged back in twenty sixteen, but that didn't 186 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 4: work out. The first red flag, I have to say, 187 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: I don't know if that would count as one, but 188 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 4: the first one was when he lives in London. I 189 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 4: live in outside of London, so the culture in London 190 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,279 Speaker 4: is a lot like I'm guessing New York City, where 191 00:10:48,319 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 4: it's like going out and then drinking and having fun. 192 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 4: And I noticed that he was drinking a lot. He 193 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,119 Speaker 4: was meant to come and meet me, and he didn't, 194 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 4: and I just said, I'm done. I'm not hanging around 195 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 4: waiting for you. I don't want to do this anymore 196 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: because obviously you're choosing to going out as opposed to 197 00:11:04,839 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 4: hanging out with me, which is what we plan to do. 198 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 5: But he was crying and hysteric and he was just like, oh, 199 00:11:10,359 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 5: I've made a mistake. This is a wake up hall. 200 00:11:12,359 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 5: You mean too much to me. I don't want to 201 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 5: lose you. So we tried again. 202 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 4: And that's why I feel like I'm so angry, because 203 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 4: if I had just stuck to my guns the first time, 204 00:11:20,839 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 4: then I wouldn't be where I am now. 205 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: So that happened pretty early on, when you knew that 206 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,119 Speaker 1: there was something else that you weren't okay worth Yeah, 207 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: tell me what made you overlook that? What were the 208 00:11:34,839 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: positive things about the relationship that made you think, oh, 209 00:11:38,359 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: but it's okay, I want to see what happens here. 210 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 4: I think it was because I've never had a guy 211 00:11:46,839 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 4: like cry about how sorry they were. I've never had 212 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 4: a guy actually express that sort of emotion. I noticed 213 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 4: that my past relationships, the guys that I was seeing 214 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 4: or was dating, were quite emotionally unavailable, so they weren't 215 00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 4: ever very emotionally expressive. So this guy was like really upset, 216 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 4: and I was just thinking, wow, so maybe he must 217 00:12:07,319 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 4: be really sorry, and I kind of well, and it's 218 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 4: just going to sound awful, but I felt guilty because 219 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 4: I felt like I knew better, and I felt like 220 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 4: perhaps maybe This was his first major relationship. 221 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,359 Speaker 5: The last relationship he was in he was sixteen. 222 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,599 Speaker 4: They finished when he was twenty one. He's now twenty seven, 223 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 4: so this was his first adult I would say relationship. 224 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 4: So I thought, you know, I know better he didn't 225 00:12:29,319 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 4: mean it. 226 00:12:29,879 --> 00:12:31,119 Speaker 5: He wants to try. 227 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: He's made that sort of apology, then surely I should 228 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 4: try to and not just give up at the first hurdle. 229 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 5: So I think it was just sort of yeah, I 230 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,279 Speaker 5: don't know if that was what clearly wasn't the right 231 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 5: thing to do, but. 232 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: Well, you know, you said, this was he's twenty seven 233 00:12:47,319 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: and this was the first relationship for him since a 234 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: long time. How old are you and what were your 235 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: relationships like before this? 236 00:12:56,079 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 5: So I'm twenty nine. I'm going to be thirty on Sunday. 237 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: My first relationship was well, my engagement ended in twenty sixteen. 238 00:13:05,319 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 4: But I was with that guy for like five years 239 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 4: and he said that he didn't love me anymore. They 240 00:13:09,599 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 4: just woke up to turn round, looked at me in 241 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 4: the house that we were living in and just said, oh, 242 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 4: I don't love you anymore. 243 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 5: And actually so I was like, oh, okay. 244 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: How did you grieve the loss of that relationship. 245 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 5: I didn't actually. 246 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 4: I actually got straight into like a rebound relationship with 247 00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 4: someone who was just as probably in as much of 248 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 4: a mess as I was, and that went on for 249 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 4: like a year, and I think I just jumped into 250 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 4: something else, and I didn't have a very good family life, 251 00:13:38,599 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 4: and I was just kind of didn't want to really 252 00:13:40,879 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: deal with the fact that I had lost someone that 253 00:13:43,079 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 4: was so important to me, so I didn't really grieve 254 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 4: that relationship at all. I think that when I managed 255 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 4: to finally escape the rebound, I think a lot of 256 00:13:52,599 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 4: that was grieving was done in between those sorts of things. 257 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,879 Speaker 1: You know, Guy, I want to say. I want to 258 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: say this sort of to Guy and also to you Strina, 259 00:14:01,079 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: that what I'm noticing, and I'll bet that guys thinking 260 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,999 Speaker 1: the same thing, is that you're improving in terms of 261 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: the time that it takes you to realize that a 262 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,399 Speaker 1: relationship is not actually working for you and the time 263 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: that it ends, even if you didn't end it right. 264 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: You're not spending as much time with someone who isn't 265 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: right for you, or who isn't meeting your needs, or 266 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,479 Speaker 1: who isn't really appropriate in terms of where they are 267 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,639 Speaker 1: in their life for what their readiness is for the 268 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of relationship you want. 269 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I hope. 270 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 4: So I think the thing is is that I guess 271 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 4: it makes me sad because I kind of keep thinking like, 272 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 4: is there something that I could have done differently or better? 273 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 4: Because it kind of just feels like the go to 274 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 4: sentence for both Joe who is my recent ex and 275 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 4: Matt whose my ex fiance, was I just don't love 276 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 4: you anymore. 277 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,759 Speaker 5: And I just that's what makes me think. 278 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 4: Well, how why when? And they don't have the answer 279 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 4: to the question is just oh, I just don't love you, 280 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,519 Speaker 4: And that's what hurts because it's kind of like, well, 281 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 4: then what I do? And then and then it's just 282 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 4: you can't answer that question. 283 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I have a little bit of suspicion. 284 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: I'm not sure about this at all, mind you, but 285 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: I have a little suspicion that it's more about what 286 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: you don't do than what you do. And why I 287 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 3: say it might be related more to what you don't do. 288 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,119 Speaker 3: It's possible that when you have a background that's a 289 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: little tumultuous, it makes your tolerance for certain things higher 290 00:15:33,359 --> 00:15:36,359 Speaker 3: than it should be because you came from somewhere where 291 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 3: things were not about you as much as they probably 292 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: should have been, and you had to put up with 293 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 3: a lot of difficult behavior by other people. You just 294 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 3: learn to tolerate that. It doesn't, you know, disturb you 295 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: as much as it might disturb someone else who doesn't 296 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: have that tolerance. And so it's possible with some of 297 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 3: these guys that you are overlooking things because yes, it's 298 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: slightly a problem, but I can manage it. When the 299 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: problem with managing it is that it communicates to them 300 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: that you're okay with it, when in essence you're not. 301 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 5: Yeah that sounds right, Yeah, that is right. 302 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 4: I even said that if I take you back, then 303 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 4: I'm sort of enabling this behavior and saying that it's okay. 304 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 5: I can't do that. But I guess I'm just a 305 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 5: bit of a sucker, because he was like, oh no, no, 306 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 5: I won't like this. You know, this is a wake 307 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 5: up who I've I've changed, and it's just kind of 308 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,359 Speaker 5: like downhill from there. 309 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 3: Here's something I want you to remember for next time, 310 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: and that is that when he has this moment where 311 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 3: he's crying and he's promising and it's all going to 312 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,359 Speaker 3: be great, it's okay to give the person a chance, 313 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 3: but in this condition, you give them a chance, and 314 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: then you have your eyes extraordinarily wide open for the 315 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: first violation of whatever that promise was, and then you 316 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: have to really call them on it and say it 317 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: might be half an hour later, a day, a week, 318 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: a month, but it's that first time where they're violating 319 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,399 Speaker 3: whatever the promise is that you can't overlook it, because 320 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,479 Speaker 3: if you do, then they just fall into the old 321 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 3: behavior immediately and there goes the promise. If you call 322 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 3: them on it, they have a decision point to make 323 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 3: of either okay, either they're back in or they're not. 324 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 3: But at least in that point. 325 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, you know, you had been asking about, 326 00:17:15,879 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: you know, what did I do to make them fall 327 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: out of love with me? And so guy was talking 328 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: about really paying attention to what is important to you, 329 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: as opposed to wondering how can I be a chameleon 330 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: and be the kind of person that they want me 331 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: to be so that they'll love me. 332 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's quite my main problem, because I 333 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 4: find myself trying to mold myself into shapes for my 334 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 4: partner that they the way that they want me to 335 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 4: be like, for example, with like Joe, who wasn't happy 336 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 4: with my life choices. He was like, you shouldn't be 337 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 4: doing this, you shouldn't be doing that, and it kind 338 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 4: of just made me feel like, why can't you just 339 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 4: accept me as I am? And he just said, oh, 340 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 4: because I'm trying to push you to be better because 341 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 4: you're so bright and you're so intelligent and you can 342 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 4: do this and you do that, but you're just you've 343 00:18:02,879 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 4: just got you've got comfortable, and it just made me 344 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 4: feel really bad about myself. And I think that's that's 345 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 4: really a good point that I have tried to like 346 00:18:10,879 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 4: change who I am, to try and make my partners, 347 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 4: I guess, like me more. 348 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: Well. I think in this last relationship, it sounds like 349 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: you were trained to be the cool girl, the lead 350 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: back girl, the girl who's like, yeah, I'm cool with that, 351 00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: it's okay. And the more that people try to say 352 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: I'm going to be someone who I'm not to become 353 00:18:31,439 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: the person that this other person wants, the less chance 354 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: that relationship is going to work. 355 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,759 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I just I feel like 356 00:18:41,399 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 5: I don't know what I don't know. I don't know. 357 00:18:43,679 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 5: I kept saying this to him. I was like, what 358 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 5: did I do? I don't understand, and he was like, 359 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 5: I don't understand either. It's like I do love you, 360 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 5: but I don't know if it's in the right way. 361 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 5: And I just felt like I was banging my head 362 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 5: against the wall. 363 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,239 Speaker 4: And it's so hard to not feel like you're the 364 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 4: one like you lose all your self esteem. 365 00:18:58,919 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: So you were handed your self esteem to him to 366 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: be the holder of your self esteem. Yeah, that's a 367 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: very dangerous way to go about being in relationship with somebody. Yeah, 368 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: you talk a lot about what you thought he liked 369 00:19:15,879 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: about you, and then suddenly he wasn't as invested. What 370 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: did you like about him? I'm not hearing anything positive 371 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: about him yet. 372 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he was. He made me laugh. 373 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 4: He was really funny, and we went out and experienced 374 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 4: a lot of things together. 375 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 5: We always were doing things. 376 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 4: It's a complete polar opposite of my relationship with my ex, 377 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 4: where we just sat and did nothing in the house. 378 00:19:38,639 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 4: So we were like always doing something. It was always fun, 379 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 4: there was always something happening. There was always you know, 380 00:19:43,879 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 4: we will always go, go, go, and I you know, 381 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 4: I like that, and I. 382 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,519 Speaker 5: Mean I hate to sound really superficial, but he was 383 00:19:51,639 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 5: really good. 384 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:52,759 Speaker 1: Looking at all. 385 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 4: So yeah, I think those were like the three things 386 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 4: that I really liked about him. 387 00:20:00,919 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 3: You know what's interesting is that I think that sometimes you, 388 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 3: and by you, I mean most people try and make 389 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: a relationship work in the moment without thinking enough about 390 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 3: whether it's sustainable long term. And when you start thinking 391 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 3: long term, you have to ask yourself whether you want 392 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 3: to sign on for that forever with that person who 393 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 3: will always know better than you what's best for you 394 00:20:25,639 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 3: and always have an opinion about what you shouldn't shouldn't do. 395 00:20:28,639 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 5: I mean, and this is what I said to him. 396 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 4: I said, I've always supported you, yet you can't do 397 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 4: the same thing for me. I don't understand why that's 398 00:20:36,919 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 4: the case. 399 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: So you said, you're about to turn thirty, You've gone through, 400 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: you had a long engagement that didn't work out, and 401 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: now here you are, and it sounds like you're worried about, 402 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, meeting somebody. And then you had this idea of, oh, 403 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: here it is, here's my answer, here's my solution in 404 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,759 Speaker 1: the form of Joe. Yeah, and there he was and 405 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: he materialized, and it all sounded so exciting and we're 406 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: going to get married and we're so this is so 407 00:21:04,439 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: fun and he's so different from my former fiance, and 408 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: this is going to be great. And that family where 409 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: I had all that trouble being loved and learning to love, 410 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:14,959 Speaker 1: that's all going to be in the past and I 411 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: don't have to carry that around with me anymore because 412 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: now I'm going to be saved by this person. And 413 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: so you're grieving the loss of Joe, but I think 414 00:21:24,879 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: he's the most insignificant part of the loss that you're 415 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: experiencing right now, and I think you're so fixated on 416 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: him and why he decided that this was not the 417 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: relationship that he wanted, that you're not really grieving the 418 00:21:36,919 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: parts that are going to be much more helpful for 419 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: you to grieve so that you can find the relationship 420 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: that you want when you're ready to do that. And 421 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: that's this idea that there's going to be some kind 422 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: of reciprocity in a romantic relationship for you that I 423 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: don't think you've really had, that you're going to have 424 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: something different from what you had in your family that 425 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,759 Speaker 1: I don't think that you've really had. That someone is 426 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: going to save you from having to deal with the 427 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: pain of your past, which no person, no matter how 428 00:22:04,399 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: great they are, even if they do happen to be 429 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: the right person, can save you from that. They can't. 430 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: But instead of focusing so much on Joe and trying 431 00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: to get into his head for an answer that you 432 00:22:16,679 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: will honestly never have, the better use of your time 433 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: is to say, why is it so painful for me 434 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: to be in relationship with people? Why do I allow 435 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: people to do things in relationship that are not okay 436 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: with me? Those are going to be really important questions 437 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: for you to get curious about as you're grieving this loss, 438 00:22:39,879 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: and it will also help you to not have so 439 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: much sharpness around the pain of the future that just 440 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: went away, because they think it will help you to 441 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: get clarity around that it is not the future that 442 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: you wanted. 443 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're right there. 444 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 4: I mean, what's also quite interesting is that when you 445 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 4: pointed out about the stuff with the family, am I 446 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 4: tolerance for things that are unacceptable is quite high? 447 00:23:03,399 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 5: And I, obviously. 448 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 4: I don't know why that is, And that is really 449 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 4: interesting that you put it that way, that I would 450 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 4: like to look at that as opposed to why I'm 451 00:23:13,919 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 4: trying to get into Joe's head and figure out why 452 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 4: this thing didn't work. I think that the only problem 453 00:23:19,639 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 4: is that when I think about it, I don't know 454 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 4: and the answer and the thing that just keeps coming 455 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 4: back to me is just this massive feeling of pain 456 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 4: and I don't even. 457 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 5: Know if I want to open that. 458 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 4: And I don't know whether that's just that I'm scared 459 00:23:32,879 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 4: of being on my own because like everyone sort of 460 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,519 Speaker 4: has a family, and I've never really had one, like 461 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 4: you've said, and we've been quite fractured. I don't speak 462 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 4: to my brother in personal reasons. I don't speak to 463 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 4: any of my cousins. Really, I am quite isolated. And 464 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 4: I think that's probably why I cling onto romantic partners, 465 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 4: because I keep thinking, oh, least I won't be on 466 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 4: my own then, right. 467 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,999 Speaker 3: But you want a partner and future in the future 468 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: of family that do accept you for who you are, 469 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,999 Speaker 3: that do recognize or that you have to offer, that 470 00:24:05,159 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 3: do value having you, And so it's super important that 471 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 3: that is what you look for in another person, not 472 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 3: just their presence or acceptance, but they're valuing you for 473 00:24:21,919 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 3: who you are. When I hear about Joe, who's a Pardier, 474 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 3: and you describe yourself as I like to go to 475 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: lectures and read books. To me, you know, to me, 476 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 3: it sounds like he does the math, looks forward and 477 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: goes like, yeah, maybe that's not what I want to 478 00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 3: do in life. So when you're looking for reasons, one 479 00:24:40,439 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 3: of them is that you just don't sound like the 480 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 3: best match to be honest with you, just in terms 481 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: of what you want out of life, how you live 482 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 3: your life. 483 00:24:48,639 --> 00:24:51,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, he went out, we don't have many interests, 484 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 4: and I said, well, with all due respect, I've taken 485 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,759 Speaker 4: so much of an interest in the things that you like, 486 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 4: and you have actually said to my fates that you 487 00:24:59,439 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 4: find the stuff that I like boring. 488 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: That rate there is. So it's almost like a lot 489 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: of times when people say I don't know why this 490 00:25:07,439 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: person broke up with me, it's not even that you 491 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: have to intuit. It is that they've actually told you why. 492 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: They may not have told you in the breakup conversation, 493 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,759 Speaker 1: which would be more ideal, but along the way in 494 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: the relationship they've kind of sprinkled in reasons, and sometimes 495 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: people choose not to hear those reasons. I think what 496 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: happens with you Strina, is that any guy that you're with, 497 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: whether they want to be with you, becomes a referendum 498 00:25:34,879 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: on how lovable you are. 499 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, that sounds about right. 500 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: And that's why you go to such great lengths to 501 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: try to convince them that the relationship is viable. And 502 00:25:48,919 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: so I imagine that when he did say, you know, 503 00:25:51,439 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't think we're right for each other, you heard 504 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: it as something is wrong with you, something is not 505 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: something is not lovable about you, and you're trying to say, 506 00:26:01,639 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: I'll do anything I can to be to become lovable. 507 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: And the thing is, Shrina, you are lovable, and you're 508 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: also choosing people who are not right for you because 509 00:26:13,399 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: it feels familiar to you, because that kind of love 510 00:26:17,399 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: of not having that feeling of ease, not having that 511 00:26:20,919 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: feeling of I don't have to walk on eggshells, and 512 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: I trust this person's love and I truly love them too. 513 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: By the way, because I don't hear that you really 514 00:26:29,639 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: loved either of these guys, your ex fiance or Joe. 515 00:26:32,919 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: So I think what you do is you replicate the 516 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: kind of loving relationships that you had in your family, 517 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: which were very problematic, and when you first meet these guys, 518 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: you think, oh, this will be different, this time, it's 519 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: going to be different, But really you have radar for 520 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: people who will provide the same kind of environment for 521 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 1: you that you had growing up. And then again you 522 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: feel like, oh here it is again. See I'm not lovable. 523 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 4: Yeah that sounds pretty much sput on, to be honest, Yeah, 524 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 4: I think you're right about the like feel's familiar. I 525 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 4: feel like I need to work for it and I 526 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 4: need to prove that I'm worthy of being. 527 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 5: In a relationship. 528 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 4: I mean, he was constantly on his phone, and like 529 00:27:16,879 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 4: we'd be talking and I'd be like, you're not even present, 530 00:27:19,439 --> 00:27:21,799 Speaker 4: like you're not listening to me, and it was just 531 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 4: like sort of fighting for his sort of attention. And 532 00:27:25,159 --> 00:27:28,999 Speaker 4: then when he'd do something so like he said to me, oh, 533 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 4: I found a book that reminded me of use and 534 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 4: he bought it for me, and I just burst into 535 00:27:32,399 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 4: tears because I was like, oh my god, this is 536 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 4: so lovely, is so amazing, thank you so much, thank 537 00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 4: you so much over a book because I felt like 538 00:27:39,919 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 4: he knew that that's what would make me happy. 539 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 5: It is just he thought he saw something thought of me, 540 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 5: and it was a book and I love. 541 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 3: To read because it was that unusual for him to 542 00:27:47,879 --> 00:27:50,999 Speaker 3: do something so thoughtful apparently that it touched you so deeply. 543 00:27:51,679 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: It's almost it's almost like strena that you were so 544 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: hungry for this kind of love growing up, and so 545 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: as an adult, you'll take the crumb, and the crumb 546 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: means everything. The crumb. You try to get the crumb 547 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 1: to fill you up, the giving you the book that 548 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 1: was a crumb that he gave you, and you it 549 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: became an entire meal. 550 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, what. 551 00:28:20,879 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 3: So, Laurie, do we have some advice? 552 00:28:24,879 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? What I'm thinking about is that endings matter a lot, 553 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: and they kind of set the tone for how we 554 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: move on. They help us sometimes move on in a 555 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: different way if we can have a better ending. And 556 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: so I'm thinking about how volatile your ending was, and 557 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: there was a lot of anger. Nobody really talked about anything, 558 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: and I feel like, here's an opportunity for you to 559 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: have a different ending with him where you give him 560 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: some information about you that is not angry, that's very composed, 561 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: but that's also very much your truth. And I'm just 562 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,799 Speaker 1: thinking about what that might sound like. 563 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 3: You know, I think the easiest thing for him to hear, 564 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: and the most truthful thing is that you were not 565 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 3: the right match for one another. But you might say 566 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 3: to him that, you know, when you're reflecting on the relationship, 567 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 3: you realize that you had a lot of fun together 568 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: in some points, but in terms of the long term, 569 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 3: you weren't well suited because you have different interests and 570 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 3: probably different expectations about how you want to live your life. 571 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: And that it was you know, it was a good 572 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,039 Speaker 3: run for a while, and just something very simple in 573 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,239 Speaker 3: that way that emphasizes that you're okay with the ending, 574 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: but have this nicely composed, calm, kind of reflective notion 575 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 3: of fun. For a while, I appreciated this about you, 576 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 3: but ultimately you weren't well matched. 577 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: And what that does is it gives you back your voice. 578 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: It gives you back your sense of you had given 579 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: you had handed him your self esteem and it never 580 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: should have been gifted to him or lent to him 581 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 1: in the first place. That's something that you always need 582 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: to hold for yourself. You don't share your self esteem 583 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: with somebody else. That's yours and yours alone. And yes, 584 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: there's more to it than you know in terms of 585 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: your feelings there's a lot of pain, but I don't 586 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,559 Speaker 1: know that that's really what you need to share with him. 587 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: You certainly did share it with him in your anger, 588 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: but just by being able to say I wish you 589 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: the best, and there's so much power in I wish 590 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: you the best and not in you know, your tone 591 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: is really important. There there's no edge to it, and 592 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: so I hope you're able to say your truth in 593 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: that way about the mismatch and from a deep place 594 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: of adulthood, which is where you need to move your 595 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: It's almost like you're wearing clothing that doesn't fit anymore. 596 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: You're wearing all that childhood clothing as you go into 597 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: each of these relationships. And so if you can wish 598 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: him from the adult place in yourself, and I really 599 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: wish you well and leave it at that, and you 600 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 1: will move on in a much stronger way than the 601 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: way things have been left already. 602 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. No's that's exactly what I want to do. 603 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 4: And I think that you're both right there, and I'm 604 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 4: glad that in a way that it did happen this way, 605 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 4: because obviously, like you've said, I've learnt more about myself 606 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 4: and what I will will and won't stand for. 607 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 5: In a relationship. 608 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 4: It's just obviously, well, it's always tough when things like 609 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 4: this happen, and I think that like trying to do 610 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 4: it in the way that you said, hopefully will bring. 611 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 5: It to a more sort of calm. 612 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: Ending right, And in wishing him well, you give yourself 613 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: permission to wish yourself well. Okay, that it gives you 614 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: that kind of freedom and that kind of permission that 615 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,759 Speaker 1: I don't know that you let yourself have most of 616 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: the time. I think you're so concerned about what people 617 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: are thinking about you, and I don't think that you 618 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: are thinking enough about you. And then I think, guy, 619 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: do you have some other sort of longer term advice? 620 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 3: I do. Here's what I'd like you to do longer term. 621 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 3: I'd like you to have a pact with yourself, and 622 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,719 Speaker 3: I'd like you to really write out. I want you 623 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 3: to think back on the relationships that you've had, and 624 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 3: I want you to make a list of two kinds 625 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,799 Speaker 3: of items. Number one, limits and things that you really 626 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 3: are not okay with in a relationship. I want you 627 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 3: to enumerate the ways you know the limits that you have. 628 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,999 Speaker 3: What are the things that you will not tolerate in 629 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: a relationship. And I want you to not just go 630 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: with the big ticket items of you know, cheating or 631 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 3: betrayal or you know, any kind of aggression. I want 632 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 3: you to think of the small things, like somebody putting 633 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 3: you down. And you'll be surprised that if that is 634 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: very clear, if it's that a line that you will 635 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 3: not have crossed the first time, you're like, okay, let's 636 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 3: be very clear that can't happen again. They might need 637 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,479 Speaker 3: one more reminder, but if it's very clear, you know so, 638 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 3: I want you to make a list of those kinds 639 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 3: of things, the things you will not tolerate. 640 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: And with Joe, they might have been things like talking 641 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: on the phone while you're trying to have a conversation 642 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: with him, not being reliable in terms of showing up 643 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,759 Speaker 1: when you made plans with ham, saying things like I 644 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 1: have no interest in being curious about your interests. 645 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: But the second part of the list is the dues. 646 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 3: You know, that first part is the dance and then 647 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 3: they're the duws. How do you want to feel when 648 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 3: you're with someone? And I want you to think of 649 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 3: what Laurie said about the crumbs, the crumbs that are 650 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 3: so meaningful. Make a list of those crumbs and ask 651 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 3: for them. Expect them to be much more of a meal. 652 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 3: In other words, this idea that somebody's thoughtful is Yes, 653 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 3: it's touching and it's moving. It just shouldn't be that 654 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 3: rare because I'm sure those are the kinds of things 655 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 3: that you're able to offer someone. It's absolutely fair to 656 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 3: want them in some kind of way for yourself. So 657 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 3: I want you to make a list of, you know, 658 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 3: the things you would like in a relationship, the ways 659 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 3: you would want to feel when you're with someone. And 660 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 3: then the idea here is that you keep that list 661 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 3: with you and the next time you start dating someone. 662 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 3: This is going to sound like a lot, but I 663 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 3: truly mean it. I want you to read the list 664 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 3: before every date, let's say, at least for a while, 665 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 3: because it will remind you to be truer to yourself. 666 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 3: And so literally, before every date you read that list, 667 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 3: you remind yourself, yep, this is what I'm looking for, 668 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 3: and if it's not there, you can decide much earlier. 669 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 3: You know, Laurie said, you're getting better at leaving sooner. Good. 670 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: Maybe it won't only be one date, two dates a month, 671 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 3: maybe you give somebody a chance and they snap too, 672 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,280 Speaker 3: and you will be surprised, Urina, that when you do 673 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 3: express these expectations and you do it nicely, you'll be 674 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 3: surprised that when you're very clear that this is the standard, 675 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 3: you'll be surprised how many men will rise to that standard. 676 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 4: In my head, I guess, the fact is I've had 677 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 4: this sort of narrative of no one's gonna want to 678 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 4: put up with the expectations that you think you deserve, 679 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 4: where maybe it's I'm expecting too much, and that's where 680 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 4: I've kind of now sort of gone the other way 681 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 4: and been like, oh, I'm chill about everything. So it's 682 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 4: good to hear that you have to have expectations. 683 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 1: I guess, and the people who don't want to do 684 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: those kinds of things, that's good. That's good information to have. 685 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: So instead of being devastated by the fact that they 686 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, and then you take it 687 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: personally and think that you're unlovable, that just means that 688 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: I don't have to be in so much pain because 689 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 1: I can eliminate that person. 690 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 5: Yeah. 691 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 3: Lastly, every time you have the thought either you're making 692 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 3: the list working on the list, or when you're reading it, 693 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: or when you're dating someone. Every time you have the 694 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: thought this might be too much to expect, I want 695 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 3: you to ask yourself if those things are things you 696 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 3: are willing to offer, and if they are, it's not 697 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 3: too much to expect, and if they're not, they probably 698 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 3: shouldn't be on the list. 699 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 5: Perfect, got it? Yeah, that makes sense. 700 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 4: That would help me a lot, I think, because I 701 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 4: think that I'm super hard on myself and I let 702 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 4: everyone else around me, in my in my relationships, get 703 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 4: away with my buff So that would help me make 704 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 4: it a bit more balanced. 705 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 5: Definitely great. 706 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: So how do you feel about trying all this advice? 707 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 5: Good? I feel really good. I'm going to definitely do 708 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 5: the list. 709 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 4: I'm feeling really emotional, so I think that I might 710 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 4: have a bit of a cry, and but it'd be 711 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 4: a cathartic cry, I think. And then yeah, but it's 712 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 4: just been I'm glad I kind of did this and 713 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 4: I'm definitely going to put the advice to good use. Yeah, 714 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 4: So thank you guys. Honestly, this has been This has 715 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 4: been great for me and I can't pay you guys enough. 716 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 5: I'm really, really, really grateful. 717 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 3: To you, to you both, and we're grateful to you. 718 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: Thank you. If you can try that this week to 719 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: have that conversation with him, we would love to hear 720 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: back from you. If you can leave us a voice 721 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: memo and let us know how that went. 722 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I will do that, and I will say 723 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 4: that Ivoutinea pook them wonderful. 724 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 5: Take care. Bye. 725 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: So Shrina was really lovely and I'm glad we got 726 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: to help her see some things that maybe she wasn't 727 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: able to see before. What do you think is going 728 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: to happen when she tries our advice? 729 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 3: I think she really had two people in her corner, 730 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 3: and I don't think she's used to having people in 731 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 3: her corner. And I think that she's going to feel 732 00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 3: and proud enough to be able to do it in 733 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 3: the right way and really get some closure out of it. 734 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she's going to maybe procrastinate on calling him, 735 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: and that's going to be her biggest hurdle, is getting 736 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: over her anxiety about making the call and not doubting 737 00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: herself and not going back into that place of I 738 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: don't know if I can say this, but I also 739 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: feel like she's very motivated and I think she's hearing 740 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: that this isn't so much about Joe, but about something 741 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: larger in her life and in her relational patterns, and 742 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: I am really excited to hear how that conversation goes. 743 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: This is dear Therapist, and we'll be back after a 744 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: short break. 745 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 3: I'm Guy Wench and. 746 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb and this is dear therapist. Well, let's 747 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: listen to the voicemail. 748 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 5: Hi, Guy and Laurie, it's Trina. 749 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 4: After we spoke, I did feel better. It made me 750 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 4: realize that I have a lot of unresolved childhood trauma 751 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 4: that I need to work through. To the end, I 752 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 4: am seeing a therapist weekly to kind of really work 753 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 4: through those sort of feelings that I've had and why 754 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 4: I act the way that I do and seem to 755 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 4: be drawn to emotionally unavailable men. So I think that 756 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 4: that is definitely a positive something I could definitely take 757 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 4: away from our chat. I've also realized that sometimes what 758 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 4: you want to do isn't healthy for you, so you 759 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 4: need to make sure that you follow through with the healthy. 760 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 5: Thing to do. 761 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 4: So, for example, I go backwards and forwards about wanting 762 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 4: to I have done. I'm at a place now where 763 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 4: actually I don't feel but before I was in a 764 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 4: place where I wanted to get back. 765 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 5: Together with Joe. 766 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 4: But I realized now that my need was to stay 767 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 4: mentally healthy, to stay emotionally healthy, and in order to 768 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 4: do that, I need to distance myself from here and realize, Okay, 769 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 4: what is the underlying issue here? Why do I feel 770 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 4: the need to put myself in that situation? And that 771 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,240 Speaker 4: is another thing that I've learned that I find it 772 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 4: really hard to sit with difficult emotions, and that's something 773 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 4: that I want to work on. 774 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 5: So I'm trying to use this as a learning tool. 775 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 4: So I'm hopeful for the future and hopefully on the 776 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 4: other side, I will have a relationship that I deserve 777 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 4: and that is something that I've always wanted and have 778 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 4: yet to receive. 779 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 5: So yeah, thank you so much. In totally indebted to. 780 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 4: You both, and I really appreciate everything you did in 781 00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 4: that time we shared together. 782 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 3: So that was interesting on quite a few different levels 783 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 3: for me, unexpected and really good in some ways. 784 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: She seemed to have learned so much about the work 785 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: that she needs to do that she wasn't aware of before, 786 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: and really separating out what is historical for her, What 787 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 1: is something that went on in the past that is 788 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: driving her behavior now and how much is really about Joe, 789 00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: who clearly was not compatible with her. And you know, 790 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: I found it interesting that she didn't actually follow the 791 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: suggestion that we asked her to do, which was that 792 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: conversation with Joe about their you know, really owning the 793 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: fact that she sees that they were not compatible. So 794 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: she doesn't feel like the victim because I think she 795 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: came to realize in our conversation that really this was 796 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: not the right person for her as well, and to 797 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: wish him well, right, that was part of the advice. 798 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: But what was interesting was I think as therapist, we 799 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: see that sometimes we will suggest something to someone and 800 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: they do something different that is equally useful. 801 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 3: For that she got the message that was much much 802 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 3: more important, take a look at yourself, do some work 803 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 3: so that you don't find yourself in this kind of 804 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 3: situation again, and realize that you are very much deserving 805 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 3: of better. Because she's investing in herself now and that's 806 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 3: what's coming across clearly, and that's what's so thrilling to hear. 807 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the way she put it, where she said, 808 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,240 Speaker 1: there's a difference between what I want in the moment 809 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: and what I need for myself. 810 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 3: And even this small little tippit she threw in there, 811 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 3: which I think is so so valuable of like, yes, 812 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,320 Speaker 3: and I know I need to be able to sit 813 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 3: with difficult emotions. Yes, you do, and good for you 814 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 3: for remembering that. So I'm really hopeful that she is 815 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 3: going to be able to go forward in a much 816 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 3: more positive way and make these changes. 817 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was smiling when I was listening to her 818 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: voicemail because I think heartbreak is so universal and what 819 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: we talked to her about applies to so many people. 820 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 1: And what I loved about Shrina was that she immediately said, 821 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: you know what, this is really hard. My instinct and 822 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,320 Speaker 1: what would feel better in the moment is to do 823 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: this thing that's not healthy for me and to just 824 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: continue my old patterns. But I know I need to 825 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: do something different in order to have a different outcome. 826 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,720 Speaker 1: And I think we can all learn something from that example. 827 00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 3: That brings us to the end of our show for 828 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 3: this week. Thank you so much for listening. 829 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: You can follow us both online. I'm at Lorigottlieb dot 830 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: com and you can follow me on Twitter at Lorigottlieb 831 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: one or on Instagram at Lorigottlieb Underscore Author. 832 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 3: And I'm at guywinch dot com and on Instagram at Guywinch. 833 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 3: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, 834 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 3: big or small, email us at Lorimguy at iHeartMedia dot com. 835 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. We're produced and edited 836 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: by Mike Johns. Special thanks to Samuel Benefield and to 837 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: our podcast Fairygodmother Correct. 838 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 3: Next week we'll talk about the challenges of blending families together. 839 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 3: When young children are involved. 840 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 5: I'll think, oh, everything is going fine, maybe today is 841 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 5: going to be a good day, And I certainly don't 842 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 5: know what to say when she's like, I hate you, 843 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 5: get away from me. 844 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio.