1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: We originally met and interviewed Faye Jacobs at the twenty 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: twenty two Innocence Network Conference in Phoenix, Arizona, and her 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: episode was released on June sixth, twenty twenty two. Fortunately enough, 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: we caught up with her again at the conference in 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: I am here at the Innocence Network Conference twenty twenty 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: three in Phoenix with Faye Jacobs. 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 3: Hey, how are you doing? Finding you It's so awesome 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 3: to be bad. I know we met a person here 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 3: last year. It was great. So what have you been 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 3: up to? 12 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 4: Oh my god, I have been running like a chicken 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 4: with his head cut off. I don't know if I 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 4: mentioned the last time we was here, I had started 15 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 4: my own business, Innocence to Transportation Service, and now I 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 4: contract to schools transporting students and then nursing homes as well. 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 4: I mean, wow, it is growing so big, bigger than 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 4: what I expected. I am now in the process of 19 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 4: getting a limousine, a party bus, and a tour bus 20 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 4: for my services. 21 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 3: Wow. That's amazing. So you're an incredible entrepreneur now. 22 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: But one of the things about your case was you 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: were freed but not exonerated. 24 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: Are you exonerated. 25 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 4: Yet I am not exonerated. We now have a new 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 4: governor in Arkansas, Sarah Huckabee, who waiting on her to 27 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 4: be in office at least about a year, and then 28 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 4: will present my clemency application. We will do an application 29 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 4: that will go before the Parole Board, and the parole 30 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 4: Board would do their recommendations, and from there they will 31 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 4: send their recommendations to Sarah. I truly believe somebody's gonna 32 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 4: exonerate me. 33 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 3: You know what does that like? To be free but 34 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 3: not free? It's complicated. 35 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 4: It's bittersweet because you know, I still have obstacles against me. 36 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 4: I still have issues before I even started my own business, 37 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: trying to apply for other jobs because when they do 38 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 4: a background check of courts, a felony comes back. And 39 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 4: even with housing, this conviction still hangs over my head. 40 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 4: I think the last time I was here, I wasn't. 41 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 4: But I am on the board of directors of a 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 4: Journey to New Life. It's an organization helping men and 43 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 4: women's coming out of prison to get housing and jobs. 44 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 4: It's a wonderful, wonderful organization. 45 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure things pop up all the time. You don't 46 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: even think about that. It impacts you. 47 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I want to adopt once again. This conviction 48 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 4: is just not letting me do the things that I 49 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 4: desire to do. 50 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: When I talked to you last time, you were with 51 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: your partner. 52 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 4: Tiffany's still going strong. Tiffany has now moved in, so 53 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 4: she now reside in Kansas City with me. 54 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: I'm glad you guys are going strong. 55 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: You're gonna adopt a kid when you get exonerated, Yeah, 56 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 2: hopefully to go Yeah. 57 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: Perfect. 58 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 4: And if not a kid, a bunch of grandkids. 59 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 3: Oh perfect, exactly, she has kids. 60 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Yes, we'll have her transportation service linked in the bio 61 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: for folks in the Kansas City area. And please stay 62 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: tuned for new episodes of Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling 63 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: starting in January of twenty twenty four. Now Faye Jacob's 64 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: story as it originally aired, we hope Governor Huckabee is 65 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: moved to grant her a well deserved clemency. 66 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 5: Like I've been thinking a lot about, you know, the 67 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 5: difficult decision of having to decide if you want to 68 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 5: take an Outford plea, if you want to take any 69 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 5: kind of plea. 70 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 3: I mean, if I was put in that situation. 71 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 5: Would I stay in prison to fight for my innocence 72 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 5: knowing I might never get out, or take a deal 73 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 5: get out, and then you can't fight for your innocence 74 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 5: after that. 75 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 6: It's a literal Sophie's choice. Maggie, right, I mean, you 76 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 6: have this intense pressure. You know that they have the 77 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 6: ability to say, Hey, we're going to leave you sitting 78 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 6: in jail, in prison for a year or two years 79 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 6: or more while you await your retrial. Many, many strong 80 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 6: willed and brave and brilliant people have taken the plea 81 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 6: because there's really no way out and they just want 82 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 6: to go home out. Yeah, they have to go home. 83 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 84 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 4: I didn't comprehend that I was going to prison for 85 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 4: the rest of my life. I'm thinking to myself, are 86 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: you saying that I can never be with my parents again. 87 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: I can never go back to my bed, you know, 88 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 4: my home. So I'm losing all my friends. I mean, 89 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 4: all this is going to be taken. Are you kidding me. 90 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 7: From lava for good? 91 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling today Lakwanda Fay 92 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: Jacobs on the evening of February ninth, nineteen ninety two, 93 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: Kevin Gaddy and Tony Davis were walking down the street 94 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: when a car pulled up. A man and a woman 95 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: got out and held them at gunpoint. They demanded the 96 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: jack Kevin Gaddy was wearing. It was a Chicago Bulls 97 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: starter jacket. In the nineteen nineties, these satin jackets were 98 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: a status symbol. As Kevin was handing his jacket over, 99 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: a struggle ensued and he was shot in the chest. 100 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: Around the same time, Lakwanda Fay Jacobs and her mother 101 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: were on their way to church when they saw police 102 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: commotion near Fay's house. 103 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 7: They stopped to see what was going on. 104 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: As Faye got out of the car, an officer approached 105 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: her and asked her who she was. Fay was instantly 106 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: arrested and taken down to the police station for questioning, 107 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,119 Speaker 1: but she had an alibi, and the woman they should 108 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: have been looking for was at least fifteen years older 109 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: than Fay, but it didn't matter. Fay was eventually charged 110 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: and convicted of the murder of Kevin Gaddy. 111 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: They knew all along that I was innocent, but just 112 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 4: wanting to use me as an example to other young juveniles. Therefore, 113 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: I was railroaded into the system. I am Lakwanda Faye Jacobs. 114 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety two. I was arrested for capitol felloni murder 115 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 4: of a friend of mine. 116 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: But Kwanda Faye Jacobs was born in Little Rock, Arkansas, 117 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: on February twenty second, nineteen seventy five. She was the 118 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: baby of a big family, six boys and six girls. 119 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 4: I was always picked on by my older siblings, but 120 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 4: I consider myself stronger than my other siblings, even though 121 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 4: I was the baby. I come from a great family. 122 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 4: I was raising the church. My dad was started off 123 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 4: as a deacon in the church and ended up becoming 124 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 4: assistant pastor. And I was deeply involved at the age 125 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 4: of four years. 126 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: Old, facing in the church choir, and was an outgoing 127 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: child and teenager. 128 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 4: I'm just a people person. That's just the type of 129 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 4: personality I've always had. I was a friends with everybody 130 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 4: from church people. I even had friends that were gang members, 131 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 4: you know, just a typical teenager. I had fights, I 132 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 4: had boyfriends, I did a lot, you know. That's who 133 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 4: Fey was, and. 134 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: Like many kids, she had lots of different visions for 135 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: her future. 136 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 4: I wanted to be a nurse at one time, I 137 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 4: wanted to be a beautician because I loved doing my 138 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 4: doll's hair, you know, so of course I was like, 139 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 4: I'm going to be a beautician. My grandfather was a 140 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 4: barbera and my grandmother was a beautician. I even dreamed 141 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 4: of being in the army one day. But then later on, 142 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 4: as I got older in my teenage, I was like, man, 143 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 4: I don't want to go do that. You know. 144 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: In high school, she played on the junior varsity volleyball team, 145 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: and she says she was incredibly popular and other students 146 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: looked up to her. 147 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 4: I dreamed of graduating, going to the prom, going to dance, 148 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 4: and you know, I could have possibly been the queen 149 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 4: because I was so popular. But you know, those are 150 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 4: things that will rob from me that opportunity. 151 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: On the morning of February ninth, nineteen ninety two, sixteen 152 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: year old Faye got up and went to church to 153 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: attend service. It was Sunday and she had planned to 154 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: sing at two services that day. Afterward, her mother picked 155 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: her up from the house Fae rented with her brother. 156 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: They got back to Faye's mom's apartment at two pm. 157 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: Fay's friend picked her up shortly after that and they 158 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: ran some errands, including the laundromat, and back to her 159 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: friend's house. He dropped Faye back at her mom's place 160 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: at around five point thirty. Her Sunday was pretty packed. 161 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 4: I had another service to attend that night. My mom 162 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: and I were going to us singing at another church. 163 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: Fay's MoMA wrapped home shortly after and found Fay relaxing 164 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: on the couch. Fay was still in her white church clothes, 165 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: but at the same time, over a mile away, a 166 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: situation was unfolding that would change Fay's life forever. Seventeen 167 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: year old Kevin Gaddy and his friend Tony Davis, who 168 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: was fourteen, were walking down the street when a gray 169 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: car pulled up. A man and a woman got out. 170 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: The woman had a gun and they demanded the jacket. 171 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: Kevin Gaddy was wearing a Chicago Bulls starter jacket. As 172 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: Kevin was handing it over, he put his hand in 173 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: his coat pocket to get his brush. That's when things 174 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: got messy, and the woman shot Kevin in the chest. 175 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: On their way to their second church event of the day, 176 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: Fay and her mom passed the crime scene right outside 177 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: Faye's house, so they stopped to see what was going on. 178 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: As Faye got out of the car, a police officer 179 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: grabbed her. 180 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 4: And I was instantly through on the car put in handcuffs. 181 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 4: At this time, I didn't know that a shooting had occurred. 182 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 4: I was already a handcuffsed. Once I said who I 183 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 4: was and that I lived there too as well, at 184 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: the house that they were at, I was put in 185 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 4: the backseat of the car and taken to the Little 186 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 4: Rock Police department. Not knowing what is conna. 187 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: At the precinct, the police asked Faye if they could 188 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: do a gun shot residue test on. 189 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 4: Her, and so after my gun residue was negative, they 190 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 4: was like, well, we're gonna let her go home, you know. 191 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 4: And they's like, if you hear anything about a shooting, 192 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 4: let us know. And I was like, who shot? What 193 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 4: is conna? 194 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't until days later that Fay learned it was 195 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: her friend Kevin, who was shot and killed outside of 196 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: her house. 197 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 4: Kevin and I I were both the same age, but 198 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 4: he was a few months older than me, and he 199 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 4: was real known for his scooter and his skills with basketball. 200 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 4: I always, even as a kid, I used to say 201 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 4: you're gonna go big Kevin, you know, because he was 202 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 4: so good at basketball, you know. But like I said, 203 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 4: from kindergarten to seventh grade, him and I went to 204 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 4: school together. 205 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: Kevin was pronounced dead less than an hour after he 206 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: was shot. 207 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 4: And it was so unbelievable because I knew he was 208 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 4: such a good kid, he was a good friend, and 209 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 4: it was just very devastating to learn that he had 210 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 4: been shot. 211 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: During their investigation into Kevin's murder, police found at least 212 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: eight eyewitnesses who saw the shooting. The descriptions of the 213 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: woman who fired the gun varied, but most agreed she 214 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: was in her thirties with scars under her eyes, and 215 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: that she was wearing dark clothing, including a black hat. 216 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: Tony Davis was the eyewitness closest to the shooting, and 217 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: on that very day described the woman as quote black, 218 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: mid thirties, approximately five foot eight, heavy billed, medium complexion, 219 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: wearing a dark ski cap and bluish gray jacket and pants, 220 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: with frizzy hair. Yet Fay, a young teenager wearing entirely 221 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: different clothing, had already been to the police station and 222 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: been questioned, so investigators had her photo and showed it 223 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: to witnesses. Five of them said Fay was not the shooter. 224 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: Tony Davis was shown a picture of Fay and two times, 225 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: once on the day of the crime and again four 226 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: days later. He was unable to make an identification. But 227 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: then nine days after the shooting, the police brought him 228 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: back in and again they showed him a photo lineup, 229 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: and this time he identified Faye as the shooter. They 230 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: had absolutely no idea what was going on. 231 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 4: I was going to school and this day I wasn't 232 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 4: feeling well and I was at my sister's house and 233 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 4: my mom called my sister and said, the police has 234 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 4: come to my job looking for fee. 235 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 7: For murder. 236 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: And I was like, murder. I haven't killed anybody. And 237 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 4: so my mom came to my sister house. We called 238 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: my dad, we called my pastor, and we went to 239 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: the police station just to clear my name, you know, 240 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 4: to tell them I haven't did anything. You know. I 241 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 4: mean when I tell you, I had no clue that 242 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 4: I was even a suspect, and you know, and that 243 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 4: could be what. I was so young, but I didn't 244 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 4: commit the crime, So why would I even think that 245 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 4: I'm a suspect. I had no knowledge of it, and 246 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 4: so we went to the jail to clear my name, 247 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 4: and at that time they arrested me. They did not 248 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 4: allow me to clear my name. They arrested me and 249 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 4: charged me with capital felay murder and set my bund 250 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 4: at one million dollars. Okay, I'm sixteen, and I'm like, 251 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 4: I had never been to jail before in my life, 252 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 4: and so I'm scared. 253 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 8: I'm very scared. 254 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 255 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 256 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 257 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light 258 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 259 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 260 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 261 00:14:53,480 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Before trial, Faye 262 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: was appointed public defender James Cluet to represent her. At 263 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: the time of his appointment, Kluet was representing a client 264 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: by the name of Sean Riggins. As it happens, Riggins 265 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: and his brother had been among the witnesses on the 266 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: street when Kevin was murdered. Two weeks later, Riggins was 267 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: arrested for an unrelated crime. 268 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 7: At that time. 269 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: He ended up telling police that he'd seen the shooter 270 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: and that she was actually younger than thirty, closer. 271 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 7: To fifteen or sixteen. 272 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: He was the only person to say that, and when 273 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: investigator showed him a photo spread of suspects, he identified 274 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: Faye as the shooter. Now this part gets a little confusing, 275 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: so follow carefully. Not only as Fay's attorney James Cluett 276 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: representing two clients involved in the same case, a clear 277 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: conflict of interest, but he also asked Faye to lie 278 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: for Shawn Riggins. Fay was in jail with a woman 279 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: named Burt Walker, one of Riggins's co defendants in another case. 280 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: Cluette approached Fay with an offer. He asked her to 281 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: say that Bertie had told her she committed the crime alone. 282 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: In exchange, he said Riggins would not testify against Faye 283 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: about Kevin's murder, but Fay rejected the offer. She refused 284 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: to lie and asked for a new lawyer. She was 285 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: appointed attorney Bill MacArthur. James Cluett was eventually disbarred for 286 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: separate issues. Fay's trial started a year later in April 287 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. A man named Clifton Thomas was originally 288 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: charged with Faye as her alleged accomplice, but the charges 289 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: against him were eventually dropped. 290 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: So I'm going to court and I'm like, are you serious? 291 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 4: I can't believe this. Why are they doing this to me? 292 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 4: And the judge keeps my bond at a million and 293 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 4: he states we're charging her as an adult. I couldn't 294 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 4: believe that this was happening. 295 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: Prosecutors Howard Coopman and John Miller presented no forensic evidence 296 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: linking Fade to the crime. They were likeed heavily on 297 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: the eyewitness statements of Tony Davis, who was with Kevin 298 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: that evening, and Sean Riggins. When fe goes to court, 299 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: news media is everywhere, She says. The case was high 300 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: profile because of a slew of killings of young people 301 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: in Arkansas at the time. 302 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 4: Arkansas was on the rise of gang balance back in 303 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 4: the late eighties early nineties, and so of course law 304 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 4: enforcements was forced to do something about those crimes. So 305 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 4: they had a thing called banging in Arkansas. It was 306 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 4: like the Arkansas was like a small Los Angeles with 307 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 4: the crips and the bloods, and they had videos and 308 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 4: they still had these videos. You can pull them up 309 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 4: on YouTube called bang It in Arkansas. 310 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 7: So I did. 311 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: This is the County coroner for Little Rock, Arkansas, on 312 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: one of the films several. 313 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 9: Years ago, when I saw the death rate was increasing, 314 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 9: but the victims were becoming much younger and younger, and 315 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 9: began to see tattoos and brands on the victims, and 316 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 9: began to notice that the violence just was increasing, and 317 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 9: drive by shootings and random shootings and retaliation killings, and 318 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 9: it just went on and on. Until nineteen ninety two, 319 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 9: we had a record rate of homicides in Little Rock, 320 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 9: and it looks we've broken the record in nineteen ninety three, 321 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 9: and it's. 322 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 10: Just gone on and on and on. 323 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: In fact, a half hour earlier and a few blocks 324 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: away from Kevin Gaddy's murder, there was another potentially related crime. 325 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: Around five pm, Little Rock Police Department responded to an 326 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: aggravated assault where eyewitnesses told police there was a female perpetrator, 327 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: a male accomplice, and guess what a gray car. It's 328 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: unclear what happened with that case and something else related 329 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: to this crime. To help you understand, starting in the 330 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: late eighties, sports starter jackets were a hot commodity. An 331 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: article in The New York Times from February of nineteen 332 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: ninety discusses the phenomenon, calling it quote an increasingly pervasive 333 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: kind of urban crime, robberies by young people willing to 334 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: kill for clothes end quote. They cite that at the 335 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: time these jackets went from ninety to two hundred dollars, 336 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: which today would be about two hundred to four hundred dollars, 337 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: So Kevin Gaddy becoming a target for his jacket that 338 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: night was not necessarily unusual at the time. However, Fay's 339 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: attorney failed at making a case that Fay was caught 340 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that 341 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: she did not commit the crime. Fay was able to 342 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: testify on her own behalf, however, and she tried to 343 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: make the case for herself that she did not kill 344 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: her friend. 345 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 4: In my little mind, I'm thinking that, you know, soon 346 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 4: as I go to court, I can just tell the 347 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 4: judge that I didn't do this and uc and I'll 348 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 4: go home. But the reality, that's not how it works, 349 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 4: you know, but I didn't know that, I really believe 350 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 4: that I was going to get out of there. 351 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: On April twenty first, nineteen ninety three, Fate was convicted 352 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: of capital murder and sentenced to life without parole. 353 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 7: She was just sixteen years old. 354 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't comprehend that I was going to 355 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 4: prison for the rest of my life. You know. It 356 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 4: was until I got back to the jail that the 357 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 4: jailer told me, you know, you're not going to ever 358 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 4: get out. You know you're going to jail, you know. 359 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 4: And so I was broken inside, you know, had been 360 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 4: ripped apart. 361 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 7: You know, are you telling me? 362 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 4: I'm thinking to myself, are you saying that I can 363 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 4: never be with my parents again. 364 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 7: I can never go. 365 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 4: Back to my bed, you know, my home. So I'm 366 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 4: losing all my friends. I mean, all this is going 367 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 4: to be taken. Are you kidding me? 368 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: Fay's world had turned completely upside down. 369 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 4: I had many days of crying. So when I was 370 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 4: first put in, I was put in a cell all 371 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 4: by myself because I was sixteen. But days later I 372 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 4: was sent to an adult place because I was charged 373 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 4: at an adult and so of course I had adults 374 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 4: tunt me and bothered me. I had even got jumped 375 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 4: on it in the county jail, you know, because of 376 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 4: this high profile and that's the juvenile that killed the 377 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 4: guy for his jacket, you know, that's how. 378 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 7: It was labeled. 379 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 4: And so I would go to my room, I would cry. 380 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 4: I wouldn't let people see me cry because if they 381 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 4: saw that, that a show a sign a weakness, and 382 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 4: they would really take advantage of you and do things. 383 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 7: But yeah, I was very scared. 384 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: Eventually, Fay settled into the prison environment and just like 385 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: in high school, her outgoing personality and love of people 386 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: got her through. By the time she had been there 387 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: for several years, she had started making a name for 388 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: herself as a generous person to those coming into the system. 389 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 4: And so a lot of ladies come in there and 390 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 4: they don't have the headphones and things like that. So 391 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 4: I always had extra so I can share with the 392 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 4: other ladies. 393 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 11: You know. 394 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, Tiffany Woods came to prison. 395 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 8: I was incarcerated for DWIS. So they had moved me 396 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 8: in the barracks with a and in order to watch TV, 397 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 8: you have to have a radio. Well, I didn't have 398 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 8: any family outside you know, to actually send me any 399 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 8: money to buy me a radio. So I've seen fayees 400 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 8: all bubbly playing games and stuff, and I was like, 401 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 8: excuse me, ma'am, can I borrow your radio? And so 402 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 8: she was like, yeah, it's over there on my bed. 403 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 8: So that started our friendship. 404 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: Fay and Tiffany hit it off, and when Tiffany got out, 405 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: she promised Fay she would write her. 406 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 4: You know, being in prison, you meet people and people 407 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 4: tell you I'm going to write you, I'm going to 408 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 4: support you, you know, all the way, and so you 409 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 4: hear that all the time. And I had been let 410 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 4: down so many times. Well, but Tiffany, Tiffany left and 411 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 4: she wrote me, and I was like, oh my god, 412 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 4: this girl really wrote me. And then she sent me 413 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 4: a phone number and said I could call her. And 414 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 4: I could not believe it because that was something that 415 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 4: had never happened throughout my whole incoseration, to be able 416 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 4: to have contact with another resident that had once been there. 417 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 8: It's a smile loyalty. If I tell you I'm going 418 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 8: to do something, I'm going to do it. 419 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Fey maintained their friendship over the years, all 420 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: the while Fay fought for her She filed appeal after 421 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: appeal after appeal for reasons including ineffective assistance of counsel 422 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: face as her second attorney, Bill MacArthur, failed to meet 423 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: with her before trial and failed to file any discovery 424 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: motions or conduct an investigation. He failed to show why 425 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: Fay could not have committed this crime, starting with the 426 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: description of the shooter. The shooter, according to Tony Davis's 427 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: testimony at the trial, was a black woman with scars 428 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: under her eyes and light brownish red curly hair peeking 429 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: out of a black hat, and she was wearing a 430 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: big winter coat and pants. This description does not fit 431 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: Fait at all. She had no scars under her eyes, 432 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: was wearing white church clothes, and her hair was in 433 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: a top knot for. 434 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 10: Folks who were very familiar with black hair African American hair. 435 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 10: She couldn't have gotten her hair up into this very smooth, 436 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 10: beautiful top knot if it had been a red curly 437 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 10: dew under a cap just hours earlier. 438 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: Right, this is Trisia Bushnell. She's the executive director of 439 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: the Midwest Innocence Project known as the MIP. 440 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 10: But none of those things ever come out, none of 441 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 10: those things are ever investigated or brought to the jury's attention. 442 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 10: You know, when you look at Phase case and you 443 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 10: look at the evidence, you can really just think there's 444 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 10: really no good evidence here, right. You can look at 445 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 10: it and say, there's no good evidence. So how does 446 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 10: she get convicted? Well, part of it is it's just racism, 447 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 10: very simple, right, But you have a system that has 448 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 10: a young black girl up there and the state is 449 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 10: saying she did it, and what does that read like 450 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 10: to jurors? 451 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: The bias appears to have started with the cops who 452 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: arrested Fay on the spot, and Fay feels strongly that 453 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: there was racial profiling involved. Frisha is currently Phase attorney. 454 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: The MIP took Phase case in twenty fourteen when they 455 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: reviewed it and realized it's stunk of a wrongful conviction. 456 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 10: So there's actually were a lot of witnesses to this crime. 457 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 10: And when we went and talked to people, five other 458 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 10: people who actually also knew Fay so it was not her, 459 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 10: including Sean Riggan's brother who was standing with him at 460 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 10: the car and said we couldn't see any from where 461 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 10: we were. 462 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 7: At the car. 463 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: Sean Riggins, remember had told police that Fay was the shooter, 464 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: but he ultimately did recant his identification. 465 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 10: And that was the basis of new evidence that we 466 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 10: used when we filed a federal habeas petition asking them 467 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 10: to overturn Fhay's conviction. Filed that in twenty eighteen. 468 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: The MIP also brought up in the appeal the four 469 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: additional eyewitnesses who said the shooter was not Fay and 470 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: who were never called to testify at trial. However, before 471 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: a judge could respond to the petition, there was a 472 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: new development. In twenty twelve, the United States Supreme Court 473 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: ruled in millervers Alabama, that juveniles cannot be sentenced to 474 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: mandatory life without parole like Fay was. Those who had 475 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: received this sentence are entitled to a re sentencing hearing. 476 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: But Fay had a difficult decision to make. If she 477 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: was resentenced and released based on the time she had 478 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: already served, she could not fight her innocence claim. And remember, 479 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: there were two people involved in the crime, a man 480 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: and a woman, and a man was originally charged with Fay. 481 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 10: And we know in the co defendant's case, when his 482 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 10: attorney asked for discovery, they dropped the charges, so we 483 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 10: wanted to know what was it, specifically from the crime lab, 484 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 10: and rather than giving us that, they gad an offer 485 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 10: of time served. And that is when Fay then had 486 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 10: to make a really difficult and horrific choice of you know, 487 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 10: do I want to keep pursuing my innocence claim in 488 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 10: this federal court. 489 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 7: If she did, she could lose the deal to be 490 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 7: released based on time served. So she had to choose. 491 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: Accept this chance to be free, knowing she would remain 492 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: a felon or stay in prison and continue the potentially 493 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: never ending fight for her own exoneration. On July sixteenth, 494 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, they accepted the time served offer and walked 495 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: out of prison. 496 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 4: To walk out of those gates. It was such a 497 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 4: release that I was like, oh my god, I am out. 498 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 4: Yet I had some emotions because I thought about the 499 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 4: ones that I was leaving behind, and that was the 500 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 4: life that I knew because I'd been there for over 501 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 4: twenty summer, So you know, I had these mixed emotions. 502 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 4: Yet I was so happy to be home with those 503 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 4: that had been fighting to get me out and be 504 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 4: around people other people. 505 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 7: One of those people was Tiffany. 506 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 4: She was gone. Ten years before I ever got out. 507 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 4: But that whole ten years she was out, she constantly 508 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 4: rode me, send me money, just was there for me faithfully, 509 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 4: And that was something that I had never in my 510 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 4: life experience. I had no one to be so genuine, authentic. 511 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 4: It was just unbelievable. I was like, they don't make 512 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 4: people like they make Tiffany anymore. 513 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Fay's relationship developed into a romantic one. These days, 514 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: they travel back and forth to see each other. Fay 515 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: lives in Kansas City, Missouri, and Tiffany out in rural Huntsville, Arkansas. 516 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 8: I am country. I would rather to be in the 517 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 8: woods than the city. 518 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 3: Do you bring her to the woods? 519 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 8: Yes, as much as possible, But and then she takes 520 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 8: me to the city, Like, we have a fishing trip 521 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 8: planned here pretty soon, so I want to I have 522 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 8: to go get our tent. 523 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 7: Wow, how's how's being in the woods? 524 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 3: How's camping? I don't picture you as a camper? 525 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 4: I am not. I am not. That's her. And so 526 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 4: where she lives Huntsville, population seventy five. She's been there 527 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 4: all her life. I don't think I would ever live 528 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 4: in a country town like. 529 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: I wish you could see your face right. 530 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 4: Now, but uh yeah, hopefully in the future Tiffany and 531 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 4: I could. We would live together and have our fur 532 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 4: babies and the babies that you know that I desire 533 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 4: to have it we could be a big family. 534 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: They and Tiffany hope to have a family someday. But 535 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: since they was resentenced and released, her conviction still stands, 536 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: so she's technically still a convicted felon. 537 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 4: Because of this felony, I cannot adopt, which is heartbreaking. 538 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 4: Yet I'm hoping to maybe possibly have a surrogate, so 539 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 4: that's the goal, and if not my niece, hopefully they 540 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 4: can have babies for me something like that. And I 541 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 4: also have three amazing babies. They are two Snauzers and 542 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 4: one tiny teacup Chihuahua that are my babies. 543 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: But as of adopting, life has been hard with the 544 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: label convicted felon attached to her, even with the support 545 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: of the MIP. 546 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 7: When I do. 547 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 4: Go for interviews or go to apply, I'm given a 548 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 4: letter that you know, she's actually innocent of this crime. 549 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 4: Yet we're still fighting to clear her name, and so 550 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 4: it helps in some aspects, but I've been denied Howsen 551 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 4: in spite of the letter. So sometimes it does and 552 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 4: sometimes it doesn't. 553 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: Fay currently works as a receptionist for Chevrolet in Kansas City. 554 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: She also advocates for other wrongfully incarcerated people and is 555 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: on the board of an organization which helps formally incarcerated 556 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: women returning to society. Fay's only shot at exoneration is 557 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: now clemency, and her first clemency petition from Arkansas Governor 558 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: Asa Hutchinson was denied. She cannot apply again for another 559 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: eight years. 560 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 4: You know, I'm just so happy to be free. Yet 561 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 4: I'm physically free, but. 562 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 7: I'm not free. 563 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: If you want to help Faye, go to change dot 564 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: org and type in Fay Jacobs to ask Governor Asa 565 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: Hutchinson to pardon Faye. 566 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 7: Next time. 567 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: On Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling Hank Skinner, I'm. 568 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 11: Sitting there looking at think Gurnie that they're fixing to 569 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 11: put me on. I could see it through the door, 570 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 11: the hand the door open, I could see the microphone, 571 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 11: I could see the straps, arm boards, and how was 572 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 11: absolutely convinced that I was fixing it die. 573 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 574 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 575 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: links in our bio to see how you can help. 576 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and 577 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: Kevin Words, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, 578 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonia Paul, with additional production 579 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in this 580 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 581 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, 582 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at 583 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On 584 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both 585 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie 586 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 587 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one