WEBVTT - From the Vault: A Taste of MSG 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:07.760 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.920 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Vault time. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.000 It is Saturday. We're going to venture into the vault 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.239 for a classic episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:20.240 from August about food additives. Yeah, this is the one 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.320 where we talked about MSG and the degree to which 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:27.000 it's been demonized as some sort of you know, nefarious 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.600 foreign um substance that's added to food when when really 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.599 it's far more mundane than that. As far as I 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.880 can recall, this is the only time I have ever 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:42.000 eaten on Mike, so uh, please be be ready to 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.159 get grossed out when you hear our chewing sounds. We 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.280 sampled some MSG in this episode, and in fact, the 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.480 MSG just took a bite out of a big old 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.479 hunk of it. Well, the shaker is still in the office. 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.960 I actually used it yesterday on some microwave lasagna. Was good. Yeah, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.920 of course, it enhanced the flavor nice. So all right, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.320 if you've listened to this episode before, then prepared to 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.840 experience it again. If not, be prepared to have what 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:11.919 you think you know about MSG completely turned on its head. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.720 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:25.480 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.520 My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick and Robert. 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.400 What if I told you that a silent killer worse 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:38.680 than alcohol, nicotine, and drugs is likely lurking in your 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:44.080 kitchen cabinets and even your child's school cafeteria. Oh man, 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.160 that's that's rough, because silent killers are the worst killers. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.360 I fire prefer the loud ones, so I know they're coming. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.080 And of those substances that you mentioned, only some of 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.600 those are my favorites. So um yeah, I'm I'm I'm 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.920 instantly concerned. I'm going to start looking around in my 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.360 cabinets and trying to figure out where this nefarious force 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.000 is hiding. Now, lest I be accused of plagiarism, I 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:08.800 should give attribution. That is a quote from an article 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.519 on a on an alternative miss and website called Mercola 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.480 that is about MSG, the food additive MSG. You've often 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:22.280 heard of it associated with Chinese food. Probably it's monosodium glutamate, 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.080 and that's what we're gonna be talking about today. But 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.440 we wanted to start with some of the scare tactics, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.600 because you had to hear it right here that MSG 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:34.799 is quote worse than drugs, worse than drugs. I love 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.600 that the blandness of that statement. Worse than all drugs, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.800 worse than drugs, but but truly better than some drugs. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.800 And then also, are we just talking about what drugs right? 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.240 The drugs that take our pain away or the drugs 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.040 that that ruin us? I mean, it's there. There's so 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.000 many different interpretations of that statement. Quick side note, Robert, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.119 what's your favorite fictional drug from a movie or book? Oh? 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.360 You know, I have to go with the spice. But 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.000 I also like Samuda, which is the drug that they 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.920 that some individuals in the Dune universe take and then 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.760 they listen to some sort of weird music Simuda music 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.480 that can only really be processed while you're taking this 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.600 particular drug. Well, MSG is worse than that too, because 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.640 what does it do? I don't know, it does a 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.639 lot of stuff. Apparently, if you listen to to everyone 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.919 who has ever complained about MSG, it has ever proposed, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.320 and you know, a negative symptom of taking MSG, then 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.280 it sounds like just the worst thing imaginable. Okay, So Robert, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.359 tell me your MSG story. How did you become acquainted 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.800 with this killer? The silent killer chemical? All right, So 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.280 growing up I was I don't remember ever being privy 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.480 to any direct anti MSG messaging. Like, nobody had me 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.080 watch a video, nobody made me read a paper about it. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.120 It was just this thing that you just heard. Oh well, 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.560 MSG is to be avoided. You go to the local 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.280 Chinese restaurant and your small American town, there's likely to 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.840 be a no MSG sign there on the wall, just 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.320 to let you know before you even think about coming 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.240 in the door that there is going to be no MSG. 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.200 And I and not even knowing what it was, I 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:13.720 just kind of had in my mind that it was 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.200 some sort of some sort of chemical, some sort of 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.839 cheating substance that allowed the the individuals that are making 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.600 the food to to trick you into enjoying something. It's 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.640 the anabolic steroids of food, the doping of food. But 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.680 as we're gonna discussing this episode, there's there's virtually nothing 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.200 to any of this. Uh, this fear of moongering, decades 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.200 worth of fear mongering that still refuses to completely go away. Yeah, 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.600 I think we will in the end. Probably be able 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.840 to speculate a good bit on where a lot of 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.360 this fear comes from. But I encountered it to when 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.760 I was growing up. So I remember one of my 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.400 favorite restaurants when I was a kid was this little 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.480 brick storefront Chinese restaurant in Chattanooga, Tennessee called China Lee. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.640 I love going there. They made some delicious seguan beef. 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.560 I don't know if i'd still think it was good 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.040 if I went there today. I don't know if they're 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.680 still open. But at the time, I loved it, and 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:06.479 I would go there and I would you know, I 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.880 was a kid, but if you had this experience at 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.040 Chinese restaurants when you were a little where you just 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.440 like eat to the point of pain and then you'd 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:19.480 keep going. But I also remember this slight psychological taint 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.920 to the experience because I would hear adults talking about 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.160 Chinese food and MSG. There was this clear link in 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.159 my mind that I had overheard from adult conversation and 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.960 I didn't really understand it. But what I generally did 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.400 get was that MSG was some sort of dangerous chemical 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.960 and it was all in Chinese food. But if it 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.040 was so dangerous, why do we eat it? Why did 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.080 my parents take me? Yeah? And then the other side 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.400 of it too for me, is that, Okay, it's something 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.080 that they're using to cheat you into into the they're cheating, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.400 they're making the food taste better than it is. But 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.360 the same thing can be said of pretty much every 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.360 food additive that has ever been. Every spice in your 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:03.560 cabinet is a way to cheat and make food taste better. Yes, 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.960 that's what that's salt, pepper, everything else like that. Just 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.600 the act of the art of cooking is, Hey, how 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.080 can we make this particular slab of protein, this particular 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.200 heap of vegetables, how can we make this biomass, uh, 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.680 you know, taste better and and be more digestible for 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.159 the human body. Yeah, But of course I don't know. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.599 I got this message somehow. So when I was a kid, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.880 I do remember one instance where a friend of mine 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.040 was sick. He was like laid out on the couch 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.120 for a couple of days, and I remember it was 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:36.159 attributed to the msg content of some Chinese food he'd 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.080 eaten the day before. I don't know where that idea 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.880 came from. I don't know if their doctor told them 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.720 that or if that's just what a parent concluded. But yeah, 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.400 that's what they said. And then later I think I 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.040 softened a little bit on MSG, but in a in 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.840 another disgusting way, because the next time I remember encountering 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.360 it in my life, I was in college and a 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:00.280 friend and roommate of mine at the time time was 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.719 teaching me how to make a recipe for this dip 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.120 that came from his family. I think his grandmother had 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.719 made it or something. All the recipes you learned in 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.720 college tend to be going to be a little suspect. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.120 I wouldn't judge this friend of mine by this dip. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.400 But the dip in my memory is a little gross. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.920 So it had Philadelphia cream cheese, chopped up sandwich meat 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:25.400 which I believe was Buddig beef, and then sliced green onions, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.160 and the fourth ingredient was a container of shakon seasoning 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.360 called accent. And I was like, what is this? I 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.320 think I might have seen this in my grandmother's kitchen cabinet, 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:37.440 but otherwise I didn't know what it was. And it 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.040 said wakes up food flavor. Well, that sounds good. You 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.080 don't want your food to be asleep, So I looked 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.160 at the ingredients, and the primary ingredient are actually the 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.640 one ingredient in this food flavor alarm clock was monosodium 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.240 glutamate in MSG, the stuff that had supposedly laid out 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.280 my childhood friend with a body leveling illness, and the 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.160 stuff that that I always heard these creepy rumors about. Yeah, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.160 you actually brought in a little container of accent. And 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:06.800 one of the things I love about it is that 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.200 first of all, there's there's no mention of MSG. Uh Um. 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:15.080 Monosodium glutamate is mentioned once on the back, and presumably 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.240 they don't have to say contains MSG because it is 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.800 pure MSG. You know, they save on the printing for 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.760 this thing because they don't have to print ingredients every time. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.880 It just says ingredient and ends of the t pull 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.200 and monosodium glutamate. But they it's really an attempt to 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:33.120 rebrand it right accent instead of MSG, because MSG sounds 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.400 I mean, it's it's the letters are tainted for us 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.959 because of these just decades of negative connotations, which we'll 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.439 get into. And I would say it's also by the 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:47.000 general problem of chemophobia, people being afraid of chemical names 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.240 of things, which will get to in the end, and 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.480 I think we should end by number one having an 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.680 accent or monosodium glutamate if you want to avoid the branding, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.960 taste tests on Mike and then see see if anything 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.199 horrible happens to us. And then also we should suggest 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:08.160 some rebranding. Yes, so as as we're going start thinking 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.960 of new names for MSG. Ways we can we can 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:16.640 reclaim this chemical for our tasting pleasure. Right, so we 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.200 should go back and tell the story of MSG, Like 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.599 where did this food additive come from? Yeah, let's do it. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.240 Let's get to the origin story here. Mono sodium glutamate. 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:32.640 This chemical was discovered by Japanese chemist Kika Akada back 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:38.359 in nineteen o seven. So he was investigating flavoring and asparagus, 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:43.080 tomatoes and especially uh dashy seaweed soup that has a 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:48.320 strong umami flavor that that pleasant savory taste. Yeah, we're 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.880 much more familiar with you, mommy these days. We hear 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.400 about it all the time in in cooking shows and 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.079 stuff like that. Now. I think decades back, people were 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.240 way less familiar with the concept of ou mommy exactly 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.040 what it was. But ou mommy, what is it? It's 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.480 that deeply savory, meaty flavor. It's not the same as 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.560 something being salty, but it's it's that kind of deep 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.640 flavor that you get from cheeses and meats and tomatoes. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.960 It's there in anchovies, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.760 it's almost There's some wonderful descriptions out there for huma umami, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.240 and umami is such a wonderful one word description is 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.319 just rolling off your tongue once you've tasted it. Uh, 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.120 to just go perfectly together. Uh, but yeah, you kind 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.280 of have to have tasted you mommy, and most of 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.840 us have to really appreciate it. So Japanese cuisine obviously 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.360 had this concept of ou, mommy, they know what this 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.640 delicious savory flavor is. But what a Kato was able 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.680 to do was to pinpoint the chemical cause of this flavor, 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.120 which was this substance that we now know as glutamate 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:58.680 yes um. In particular, he pinpoint pinpointed glutamic acid. So 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.160 this isn't a meano acid non essential because the human 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.320 body and various plants and animals can produce it on 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.160 their own and in the body gluten Glutamic acid is 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:14.360 often found as Glutamate one of the most abundant neurotransmitters 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.160 in the body, and it plays an important role in 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.400 memory and learning, and according to the FDA, you can 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.360 probably consume thirteen grams of it of it a day 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.280 in the protein in your food. Right, So glutamate is 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.360 already there in your diet almost definitely you're eating foods 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.960 with glutamate in them. Yeah, if you're having tomatoes glutamate, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.280 If you haven't parmesan cheese, glutamate um, and certainly if 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.200 you're having some of the more processed food items out there, 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.960 various potato chips, etcetera, you having glutamate. Glutamate is just 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.360 part of eating as humans. Yeah, so there's no there's 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.560 no magic going on, right that this is just a 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:52.280 standard dietary chemical and as such we do have receptors 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.240 that are sort of programmed to taste it. Yeah. All 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.200 that Ikeda did here is he took that naturally occurring 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.120 glutamate and he solved the problem of then, well, how 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.120 do I how do I synthesize it, how do I 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.440 mass produce it? How can I get this in a 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.880 form that's stable to the consumer. And basically what he 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.080 did here is. He figured out he could synthesize the 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.200 molecule by first extracting the glutamate from seaweed and then 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.280 mixing it with water and just common table salt to 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:26.559 stabilize the compound. Thus, mono sodium glutamate m s G. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.160 It's born, it's table salt, and it's glutamate. Yeah, we 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.880 really can't drive drive that home enough that there's there's 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:39.199 no like extreme chemical um process here. There's no weird 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:44.280 magical ritual involved. This is just salt and glutamate that 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.080 come together into a stable form. So I have to 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.240 tell you that I don't know where I encountered this idea, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.640 but years ago, what I heard about the way MSG 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.880 works in your mouth is that it literally quote tears 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.359 holes in your tongue to make you taste things more intensely. 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.160 I can't remember where I came across this, and I 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.559 know I passed on this piece of false information to 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.079 people plenty of time, like it tears a hole in 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.520 the fabric of our reality and then demon taste from 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.960 another universe comming. I never heard anything quite that extreme, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.280 but I do remember hearing that it like opens up 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.000 the taste buds with the with the emphasis being that 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.920 it's doing so in an un natural way. In it 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.080 almost like a drug induced way, right. It would be 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.679 fascinating to find out where these rumors started about its 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.280 its mechanism of action. But anyway, so it went on 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.040 to become a popular commercial food additive. It wasn't just 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:44.120 anymore people putting glutamate rich foods into their foods to 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.960 season it. Like you could put parmesan cheese or or 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.280 seaweed or something like that into your food to boost 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.359 the glutamate content. Or you could just isolate monosodium glutamate 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.680 and add that to increase the zumami flavor without adding 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.240 the other ingredients. I mean basically, especially now with with 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.439 your mom a, I feel like it's been very much 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:10.680 a favorite keyword among foodies over the past decade, uh 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.720 you know, and maybe longer. But there are plenty of 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.000 ways to to glued up your food to get that 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.880 glue to mate in there without MSG. MSG is just 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.640 kind of a a quick and easy way to do it. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.960 Um So, this this quick and easy way is rolled 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.440 out by the Japanese company h a Geno motto and 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.840 it it's you have this instant crystalline powder. That's uh, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.320 that's ready to just sprinkle on your food, and it's 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.960 an instant hit. Of course, Uh. They they patented it 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.200 in nineteen o nine, and today the form that you 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.800 encounter tends to be made from beats and corn. It's 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.960 known as MSG in the States, but a Keita's name 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.160 still sticks elsewhere in the world. A geno moto or 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.840 essence of taste. You can still buy with under that 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.200 name at various you know, an anywhere you buy, you know, 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.560 your local Asian market should have it, uh with that title. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.960 And I should also point out that that Akito was 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.280 like he was tremendously successful with this, It was apparently 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:16.000 fabulously wealthy uh in the early twentie century. Japan died 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.400 in the nineteen thirties, but this was his He really 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.120 hit it out of the park with this fabulous flavor enhancer. 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.280 So what could possibly go wrong? What could what could 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:30.440 possibly stop this juggernaut of taste from just taking over 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.600 the world. Well we will answer that question right after 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:42.840 we get back from this break and we're back. So 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:48.120 Robert MSG glutamate big flavor success story in the history 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.640 of of food flavoring and additives. Yes, big big flavor 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.280 success story as a huge age, absolutely huge it. Yeah, 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.640 it it is immediately a hit just throughout Asia. Allows 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.040 that allows people to get of a meaty taste to 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.000 non meaty dishes. I've read that it was especially a 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:09.840 popular among Buddhists abstaining from meat during periodic absence periods 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:15.400 various meat related fasts and uh in America too and 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:20.440 in Canada. Elsewhere in the world it really gains popularity. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.120 I mean, you especially have to look back to World 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.480 War two era post and pre war America to see 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.080 just how ready we were for a flavor enhancer like this. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.840 On one hand, you had you had the military industrial 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.240 complex here all right. You had the US military needing 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.360 to to boost the flavor and otherwise dull soldier rations. 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.080 So they turned to MSG easy way just to enhance 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.160 some some limited food options there, easier than adding bacon 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.440 to everything, right, and then industrialization of of all that food. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.560 It comes home with them after the war into the 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.960 American household. But even before World War Two, we were 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.840 essentially priming ourselves for such an advancement through the home 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:10.360 economics philosophy. So there was recently a wonderful um interview 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.280 on NPRS Fresh Air uh with Terry Gross married culinary 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.400 historians Jane Ziegelman and Andy co appeared to promote their 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.840 book A Square Meal, the Culinary History of the Great Depression, 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.480 which it's a great, great interview, definitely check it out. Um. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.199 But they point out that the home economists of the 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.960 age that they were not really into flavor. They were 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.600 they were saying, all right, you needed, you need to 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.840 be fed, you need to be healthy. Uh, you have 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.600 limited means of pulling that off. Here are some strategies 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.080 to do it. You can worry about spice when when 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.199 when things are going a little better for you. So 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.359 they pushed pushed American science based ways to get the 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.760 best out of available food rations, often in bizarre dishes, uh, 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.439 such as the one that they discussed on in the 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.760 interview as being quote wrong in every possible way, was 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:06.280 a recipe that featured canned corn, beef, plain gelatine, can pies, vinegar, 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:11.440 and lemon juice. Oh boy, so so oh man. These 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.639 these old recipes you see from like magazines from the 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.119 World War two era where it's like, yeah, poor candle 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.119 lima beans and spam together there. But but you can 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.200 see where it's like they're engineering a meal. It's an 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:30.040 engineering approach to the American meal. And so MSG is 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.120 is perfect for that crystals that you sprinkle on there. Yeah, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.080 it's modernism brought to food. Yeah. And it was apparently 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.320 when it was first marketed, uh, to the American housewife, 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.920 it was in this slender little bottle, you know, full 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.760 of the flavor crystals. It seemed like the future had 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:51.360 arrived in the form of this, uh, this wonderful enhancer UM. 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.679 And here's another important little little fact that Ziegelman and co. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.480 Point out. Though the home economist of the day, who 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.040 were creating all these strange rests a piece to make 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.280 the best out of the available rations they could have, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.080 they could have found a lot of great, healthy and 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.000 flavorful ways to get the most out of those rations 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.920 if they turned to America's immigrant communities. But of course, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.120 for a number of reasons, including implicit or even overt 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.360 racial bias or xenophobia, they didn't do it. And I'm 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.000 not just talking about um, you know, certainly Asian immigrants, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:29.480 but even like Italian immigrants, Um, they they had they 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.280 had various tactics to to make the best out of 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.600 the available rations so with the with Italian immigrants, of course, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.560 you know, depending up more on pasta. One of the 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.879 examples they point out is is using dandelion greens. That 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.160 Italian immigrants carried that tradition with them, and that would 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.040 have been a wonderful, uh, a wonderful tactic to to 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.480 educate the American public about, but they didn't. Instead, it's 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.480 more like gelatine and meat. So yeah, well, us who 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.520 live in big cities in America today, we're just so 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.040 used to international cuisine. I think it's a thing that's 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.960 become thoroughly part of American culture to have a Chinese restaurant, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.399 a Mexican restaurant, a Thai restaurant in an Italian restaurant 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.720 and all that, and it can be kind of hard 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.000 for us to imagine what it was like firm, I 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.800 don't know, maybe a lot of Midwesterners or something like that, 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:22.960 to to see these strange foods from exotic lands. Yeah, well, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.159 I feel like we can all um. In many cases, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.720 we can. We can look to older members of our family, particularly, 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.280 I remember, I think there are stories of this with 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.000 uh grandparents on my on both my side and my 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.320 wife's side of the family. Both of them had very 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:46.119 similar stories about going to an ethnic restaurant. Uh. In 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.359 my own grandfather's case, it was a Mexican restaurant, and 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.399 I didn't want to try any of the more exotic food. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.640 They're ordered an American hamburger and complain for the rest 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.080 of his life that they served him at quote a 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.720 hot hamburger. It was a harrowing experience. But but I 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:09.040 feel like this is kind of a universal experience among 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.240 of among a lot of older Americans and now in 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.600 many cases deceased Americans, where suddenly there were all these 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.960 these more flavorful options, these exotic options, these new options, 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.840 and you know, it's only natural to approach those, uh, 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.119 those new flavors with a certain amount of skepticism, to 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.479 say nothing of you know, your your your own taste, 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:35.480 your own palate, being less inclined to enjoy those that 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.119 new Baraga flavors. But of course, as we have warned 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.600 you at the end of this great MSG success story, 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.400 did come some backlash. Yeah, and when we say success story, 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:48.800 we're not just talking about other Chinese restaurants. But it's 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.440 in it's being used in everything, it's in, it's in 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.760 children's cereals, soup, it's in soup, It's just all over 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.479 the place. It's just a become a standard part of 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.879 the industrialization of food. But also it's like just just 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:05.159 cooking in your kitchen. And then we enter a period 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.480 in the in the early sixties where people began to 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.560 uh to to question some of the chemicals in their food. Uh. 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:15.600 There's a big book that came out in sixty two 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:19.639 by Rachel Carson titled Silent Spring that kicked off a 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:23.200 lot of a great deal of backlash just against chemicals 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.920 and cooking in general. I mean, I don't think i'd 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:31.359 try to blame Rachel Carson for irrational chemophobia. Indirectly, it 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.240 might have had this unintended influence. It starts this, It 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.639 starts as narrative in many people's minds. It forces us 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.400 to to to to ask some good, some important questions 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.639 about how our foods coming together and where it's coming from. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:50.080 But but as we all know, a little information, uh 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.679 can can sometimes be just enough to spin off some 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:57.080 of some paranoia. Okay, Robert, where did this narrative of 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:02.399 Chinese restaurants syndrome come from? Well, it's everyone seems to 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.800 trace it back to one particular letter published in the 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:12.200 New England Journal of Medicine in nineteen all right, and 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.760 uh it's it's actually written by a Chinese American doctor 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.480 by the name of Robert home Man Quawk. And he 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.480 claimed that twenty minutes after eating at a Northern Chinese 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.280