WEBVTT - What’s the Best Way to Break a Bad Habit? 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.960 You're listening to part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:19.120 and iHeartRadio. 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:24.920 Guess what, Mango? 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:26.000 What's that? Will? 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:26.680 All right? 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.400 I know you and I both love old ad campaigns. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.960 They're so fun, so interesting. They're like a great sign 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:33.519 of the time. So I'm gonna go way back to 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.160 nineteen twenty eight for this one, and I'm talking about 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.760 Lucky Strike here. Lucky Strike cigarettes, of course, and they 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.879 launched this splashy new ad campaign. It was designed to 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.520 attract female customers. So the ad showed this young woman 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.599 with a chic flapper haircut, and under there was this 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.320 tagline and it said, to keep a slender figure, no 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.520 one can deny reach for a Lucky instead of a sweet. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.240 And so the campaign was the brainchild of this Lucky 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.480 Strike president. His name was George Washington Hill, and he'd 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.200 been trying to figure out a way to combat the 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.440 stigma against women smoking in public. And this was his 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.640 big idea, encouraging weight conscious women to curb their appetite 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.959 for sweets by taking up a new habit smoking. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.440 Which is probably a little worse for you, I mean 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.960 just eating some candy, right, I guess so, But it's 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.080 an interesting social experiment to see if you can get 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.600 them to put down one thing for another. 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.759 And you know, today, honestly, we're of course horrified by 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.960 these ads, but back then they were really effective. So 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.760 Lucky Strike sales soared more than two hundred percent, and 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.120 even proper society women began tucking packs of cigarettes and 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.039 their purses along with their lipstick and whatever else. But 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.080 there was one group of people who were outraged by 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:42.000 these ads. Can you guess who these people were? 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:44.360 Doctors? 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.319 No, no, this was the nineteen twenties. Make they loved 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.120 the cigarettes, so doctors were chain smoking. But I'm actually 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.120 talking about the candy industry. So they actually threatened Lucky 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.640 Strike with litigation for implying that sweets make you gain weight. 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.440 So intil the ads wound down, but marketing historians believe 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.520 that the single tagline led more women to start smoking 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.080 than any other promotional effort in history. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:08.880 And there's the reason I bring this up, Mango. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.320 It's that the whole campaign was based on the idea 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.400 that if you just make up your mind, you can 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.880 replace one habit with another. Now, this year, like every 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.000 New Year, a lot of folks celebrated by making resolutions 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.520 things like eating healthier, going to the gym, all that 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.400 sort of stuff. But the problem is changing a habit 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.320 isn't as easy as Lucky Strike wanted people to believe. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.000 It's really crazy to think that a tobacco company might 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:32.560 lie to us. 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.040 It's just so surprising you're right about that. I mean, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.760 if you can't trust Big Tobacco, who can you trust mango? Anyway, 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.400 all of this made me curious about the science of habits, 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.800 like how we developed them, why they're so hard to break, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.120 and what it really takes to make changes in our 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.760 everyday lives. And because we're in the habit of tackling 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.040 tough questions around here, we found some answers, so let's 0:02:53.040 --> 0:03:16.800 dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.120 I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.400 good friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and over there in the 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.200 booth eating a salad with one hand while bench pressing 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.240 this enormous I can't even describe how big this barbell 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:29.799 is massive just using that other hand. It's our friend 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.920 and producer Dylan Fagan. I would say I'm impressed by 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.400 his commitment to fitness, but I'm also just confused by 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.040 how quickly he seems to be doing both things at 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:38.640 the same time. 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.760 It's impressive, right, Yeah, eating and pumping, eating. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.920 And pumping so good. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.720 Anyway, today's episode is all about habits, and I wanted 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.880 to do this episode because I actually have a habit 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:52.000 that i'd like to break. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.960 I'm illa, let you guess again, can you guess what 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:54.280 it is? 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:57.720 Well? First of all, I'm so glad that you have 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.200 a habit that you're trying to break, because I feel 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.480 like I'm trying to a million habits because I'm doing 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.680 the show on how to Live Longer and be healthier, 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.880 and I'm so bad at trying to start like a 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.120 million things at the same time. I keep track of them. 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:12.280 It's not easy. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:17.200 But I mean I feel like for you, you are a 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.480 healthy eater. You run marathons half marathons. So maybe it 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.279 has something to do with like diet doctor peppers or dependent. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.680 You know me so well, and I have talked about 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.560 this on the show before, but I do have a 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.039 bit of a candy problem, and you know, I find 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.240 myself thinking about candy, I inevitably find myself eating candy. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.960 So I need to break my candy habit, and I'm 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.080 thinking maybe I could replace it with a better habit. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.640 So probably not a cigarette, because I think we've established 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:45.480 that's a bad idea. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.680 Okay, well, I guess I need to put that one 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:49.480 aside now. I was actually thinking more along the lines 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.839 of eating more fruit. What do you think about that one? 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.839 I like that, And as you're thinking about, like infrasing 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.200 this new habit, it might actually help you to know 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.240 that you're definitely not alone. So people have been wrestling 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.640 with trying to implement better habits for hundreds even thousands 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:06.760 of years, and the meaning of the word habit has 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.960 evolved over time. So if you look back, Aristotle actually 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.680 equated habit with moral character, and he believed that good 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.120 character traits developed through a process of repetition or habituation, 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.279 and this is best done at a young age, in 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.720 his opinion, so you enter adulthood properly and prepared for 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.039 the moral life. He framed this kind of as a 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.560 learning by doing, so if you want to be a 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.120 brave person, you can develop that trait by doing brave things. 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.960 But he didn't see habituation as a mindless or even 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.560 mechanical activity. You really had to internalize these qualities and 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.919 think about them and incorporate them into your character. And 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.400 the idea was that those who developed good habits became 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.719 good and virtuous people, and that in turn guided all 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.160 their subsequent choices and it rewarded them with a happy life. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:51.480 Yeah. 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.440 I mean it sounds so much more noble than when 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.239 you think about like a lot of goals that people 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:56.880 will set or that will set, you know, like I 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:58.680 want to run on a treadmill three times a week 0:05:58.760 --> 0:05:59.480 or something like that. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.080 Like I just like the direction of this. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.360 Yeah, but you can still see how we associate habits 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.279 with moral character, even though the modern definition of the 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.480 term has actually expanded to a whole bunch of things, right, Like, 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.640 so take exercise, for example. Someone might tell you that 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.279 you're being good for going to the gym, But just 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.800 because you're doing a healthy activity, it doesn't mean you're 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.640 a good person. And by the same token, like skipping 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:23.400 the gym doesn't make you a bad person. You're just 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.520 not getting those physical benefits of exercise. Yeah. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.640 Yeah, Well, as long as we're talking about morality here, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.840 isn't a habit? Also, what nuns wear? Do we need 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:31.919 to shift topics? 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.920 Here, yes, and weirdly, I did look into that, and 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.160 the earliest known use of the word habit in English 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.479 dates to the year twelve twenty five, and originally it 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.479 didn't just refer to nuns. It meant any specific way 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.840 of dressing associated with an occupation or an activity. That 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.200 use of the word has mostly fallen out of use, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.760 except in the case of nuns, and weirdly, horseback riders 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.240 who still refer to a riding habit to describe their outfits, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.400 which actually means a horseback riding. None could wear a 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:03.480 habit over her habit. 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.800 I actually did not know that about horseback riders. That's interesting, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.960 all right. Well, I want to jump ahead to eighteen 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.400 fifty nine, which is the year a Scottish author with 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.720 an incredible name, Samuel Smile, published the world's first self 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.720 help book, which just feels so appropriate. And it was called, 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.640 wait for it, self help. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.600 It's a pretty self explanatory and I hope the book 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.360 was a little more creative than that title. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:29.680 I don't know, not really. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.560 It was a litany of these mid Victorian values like 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.840 self reliance and hard work, and you know, Smiles believed 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.080 in individualism, free trade and sort of pulling yourself up 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.720 by the bootstraps. And that's probably because he'd watched his 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.920 mother support eleven children on her own after their father 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.600 died in a cholera epidemic. And Smiles studied medicine, and 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.840 then he worked in business and in journalism, and finally 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.640 he started giving these lectures about self improvement. And was 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.360 he successful. Very so Self Help was a massive success. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.480 It sold over quarter of a million copies by the 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.440 time that Smiles died, and it was translated into a 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.160 dozen languages. And much like Aristotle, Smiles saw habits as 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:12.280 an active reflection of character, so he wrote, quote, Man, 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.640 it has been said, is a bundle of habits, and 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.960 a habit is second nature. Principles, in fact are but 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.760 the names which we assigned to habits for principles are words, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.440 but the habits are the things themselves. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.440 I like, how I realize you're saying man is in humankind. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.480 But but at first it sounded like he's like, man, man, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.160 it's a bundle of habits. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.559 That's right, Man, It's just I think maybe it was 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:37.360 supposed to mean both. 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.000 Yeah, but what was Smiles saying here? 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.720 I guess and effect what he's saying is you know, 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.120 it's one thing to say I believe in hard work, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.120 but the real value is developing a habit of actually 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.880 working hard. Smiles tells the story of a young man 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.280 named George Leclair who was born in a well off family. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.600 He's lazy and he's unmotivated, and as a result, he 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.280 develops this habit of sleeping late instead of getting up 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.680 and being productive. So eventually he realizes how much time 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.640 he's wasting, so he vows to break this bad habit, 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:08.760 and he tries, and he tries, but he can't get 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.240 up on time. So he offers his servant, Joseph, a reward. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.600 He says, if he manages to drag him out of 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.719 bed by six, Joseph would earn a crown, and by 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.040 this he means a coin, not like a royal headgear. 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:21.960 So does Joseph make that money? 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.960 Well, it certainly isn't easy for him. Joseph starts coming 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.160 in to wake up his boss at six, and George 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.080 yells and screams and threatens to fire him, so Joseph 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.719 SLINKs away and lets him sleep late again. I mean, 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.800 this is clearly an abusive workplace, but Joseph wants the 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.160 extra money. So one day he gets fed up, he 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.640 throws a basin of water at George. It finally gets 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.440 him out of bed on time, and from then on 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.920 he starts getting up early and starts working right after breakfast, 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.640 eventually becoming an author of several important books about the 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.839 natural sciences. So, according to Smiles, for forty years afterward, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.160 the once lazy George got up every single day and 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.360 wrote from nine am to two pm, and again from 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.080 five pm to nine pm. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:02.800 Wow. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.160 And so all it took was a fed up servant 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:09.120 with a bucket of water and a tiny reward. Okay, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.280 so we have to take a quick break, but when 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.360 we come back we'll find out the scientific reason why 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.320 habits are so tenacious and why going on autopilot is 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.560 actually a good thing except when it is not. Don't 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:39.400 go anywhere. Welcome back to part time genius and our 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.560 deep dive into the science of habits. Okay, Well, so 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.480 before the break, you were telling us about George Leclair 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.880 and the absurd lens he went to in order to 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:52.400 stop sleeping late. And aside from being a weird funny tale, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.200 the story illustrates how sticky habits can be right like 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.040 this guy wants to wake up early, but he still 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.679 throws a tantrums. Poor servant tries to get him up 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.720 and change his behavior, and that brings us to the 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.160 great William James, who is the father of modern psychology. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.559 James realized that the force of habit was everywhere, even 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.080 in nature, so in his landmark book The Principles of Psychology, 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:20.720 James describes the laws of nature as quote immutable habits 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.800 which the elementary sorts of matter follow in their actions 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.520 and reactions upon each other. And he also comes up 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.600 with a description of human habits that we still use today. So, 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.800 according to James, habits are sequences that we've repeated so 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.800 often that they actually perpetuate themselves. So in other words, 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:41.120 we no longer devote conscious thought or attention to them. Now. Obviously, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.120 as in the case of George Leclair, we run into 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.600 problems when these automated habits like sleeping late, no longer 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.120 aligned with our goals. In his case, he wanted to 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.280 wake up early to write. But in general, James saw 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.000 the habit mechanism as a good thing. He believed that 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.120 shifting parts of daily life into habit mode kind of 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.440 frees us to think deeply about other actions and to 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.160 quote develop our higher powers of mind. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:06.480 I mean, it's kind of like how you hear about 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.160 CEOs who wear the same outfit every day. It's I 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.160 guess it's just like one less thing to think about. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.480 Yeah, I remember hearing about Obama doing that to sort 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.760 of store up his will power. But to look more 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.280 closely at this phenomena, why don't we take a look 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:21.360 inside your brain? 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.200 Wait, my brain specifically. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:29.280 M So, let's welcome the audience in now. Let's say 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.760 you're home, it's late afternoon, and you walk past your 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.240 center for excellence, the candic cabinet, which we can assume 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.920 is never empty. Next thing you know, you've got a 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.160 piece of candy in your mouth, even though you aren't hungry, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.080 and you made a resolution to eat fewer sweets. The 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.760 thing is, you shifted into autopilot without realizing it. And 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:48.720 the reason for this has to do with a group 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.120 of neuron clusters deep in your brain. They're called the 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.720 basal ganglia, and they're kind of like a control panel. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.679 They connect with other parts of the brain to send 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.000 signals back and forth. And it's a complex and somewhat 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.920 mysterious reason that manages things like voluntary movement, decision making, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.720 reward processing, and a whole lot more. But in your case, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.280 seeing the candy cabinet was a trigger that activated a 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.079 specific brain circuit associated with the habit of eating candy. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.480 It didn't engage the networks involved with goal focused action, 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.760 So your behavior and your resolution just kind of sailed 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:23.480 past each other. 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.600 So by goal focused action, you mean like when I 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.920 consciously think to myself, like I want to do X, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.520 and then I take whatever steps are necessary to then 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:33.440 do it right. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.840 But compare your autopilot experience to someone who doesn't eat 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.400 candy that often. Let's say they've had a tough day 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.440 at work and they decide they want a sweet treat. 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.800 The brain is consciously working through the steps, like they 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.360 identify this feeling, they decide to indulge. They remember where 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.839 they hid that box of chocolate from the kids, They 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.720 pull it out, pick the piece that looks the tastiest. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.360 And the thing is this process also involves the basil kanglia, 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.840 but it's a completely different network than the networks associate 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.760 with habitual behavior. In other words, it's lighting up a 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.920 whole different part of your circuit board. 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.480 So what happens if this person starts reaching for the 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.360 chocolates more often, Like, does the habit section of the 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.240 circuit board start lighting up eventually? 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:14.040 Yeah? 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:14.480 It does. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.800 So there are these researchers, Henry Yinn and Barbara Knowlton, 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.240 and they did a huge analysis of basil ganglia activity 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.320 back in two thousand and six, and one of the 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.840 things they found was that with repetition, the network's involved 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.280 with quote action control change. Right, so there's a handoff 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.080 from what they called the goal driven associative network to 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.160 the habit network. So you could be doing the exact 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.600 same action eating a piece of candy, but it's being 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.440 driven by a different part of your brain, which brings 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.960 us to a really important conclusion, Right, habits aren't defined 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.960 by what we're doing. They're defined by how we're doing them. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:53.080 So if it's happening automatically without much conscious thought, whatever 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:54.680 it is is actually a habit. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.800 And I guess that's pretty cool, but maybe also kind 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.760 of depressing because I mean it sounds like you're saying 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.440 order to break a habit or gain a habit, we 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.120 actually have to rewire our brains. 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.600 I mean, the good news is our brains have plasticity, right, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.240 They are completely capable of change, learning and making new connections. 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.880 And even at my old age, and I know you're 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.280 a little younger than me, it just takes a little bit. 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.440 Of effort, right, like two months, I think, you know, 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.160 the more I think about this, the more I think 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.120 it might be better if we had fewer habits, Like 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.119 wouldn't we make better choices if we did everything consciously 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.720 and actually try to avoid letting the habit network take 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:30.800 over in the first place. 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.480 Yeah, so I actually wondered about this as well. But 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.240 the thing is, we actually need both systems, both this 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.880 automatic one and this goal directed one, because they're not 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.400 completely disconnected. They work together in way scientists are still 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.480 trying to unravel. But over the years, research has shown 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.320 that William James was right, as are the CEOs who 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.320 wear the same outfit every day. Automatic habitual behavior helps 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.960 us act really quickly and it doesn't use up a 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.320 lot of cognitive resource, and that really does do give 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.920 our brains more bandwidth for navigating new and complex situations 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.520 or even things like emergencies. Imagine how exhausting it would 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.640 be if every morning you had to think about walking 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.359 into the bathroom picking up your toothbrush, uncapping the toothpaste, 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.000 applying the paste, putting the cap back on the toothpaste. Right, 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:17.600 you have to brush, you have to rinse, you have 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.000 to put the toothbrush away. You need a nap before 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:21.640 you're like, you even made it to the breakfast table. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.600 That just made me tired. Here and you describe it. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.240 I realized how much work we're doing. But actually, you 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.440 know what it makes me think of is driving. Like 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.640 there are certain routes that I take all the time, 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.040 and it's not that I'm not paying attention to the road, 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.800 but I'm not really watching for street signs or checking 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.080 the GPS. It just you just know where to turn 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.040 because you've done it so many times. And you know, 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.400 while I'm driving, I sometimes start thinking about an idea 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:44.360 for the show. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.720 Or a meeting that I need to prepare for. 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:47.960 But if I'm driving someplace new and I actually have 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.720 to think about it, you know it wouldn't be easy 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:50.160 to do that. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.760 Yeah, I was in LA for work and I made 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.200 the mistake of running a car. And honestly, if I could 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:56.480 not do that much thinking when I. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.520 Was driving a round that foot for sure. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.200 Let's head back in your brain for a minute, which 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.399 you know is familiar territory for all our listeners. Listeners now, plant. 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.240 So you are at home and you need to go 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.280 to the grocery store. You grab the grocery bags and 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.400 get in your car, and that triggers your basil ganglia 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.960 to activate the drive to the grocery store habit network. Right, 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.520 So you start your car, pull out the driveway, head 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.399 down the street, and so on until you get to 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.880 the store. And this habit exists because over time, you've 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.159 been rewarded for doing it. When you get in your 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.440 car and follow a specific set of directions, you reach 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.720 your destination and your brain goes you know, ding ding ding, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.560 I won right. So naturally, the next time you have 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.199 the same context and trigger, it has an incentive to 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.520 follow the same steps to get to that same reward. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.399 But let's say something's changed this time. Right, So, yesterday 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.960 your neighbor told you that the road to the store 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.399 is closed for repairs. There is this other route, but 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.720 it means going ten minutes out of your way. So 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:54.840 what do you think happens when you get into your 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:55.320 car today. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.639 I mean, I want to think that i'd remember the 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.919 road closure and take the alternate route. But I know 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.240 this because it's actually happened to me so many times. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.880 I have a feeling I just go the normal way, 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.159 then get to the roadblock, and then be annoyed with myself. 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:06.440 Right. 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.600 Yeah, and actually there have been studies done about this. 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.320 It is super common and weird because we assume we're 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:19.280 these rational, goal oriented, reward motivated creatures. But even though 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.480 you've been told you need to take a different route 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.520 to reach your goal and earn this award of being 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.359 at the grocery store as quickly as possible, your habit 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.480 network kicks in and it overrides that knowledge and it 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:31.600 sends you the wrong way. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.680 Yeah, It's like sometimes you've ever been in like an uber, 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.120 a lyft or something like that, and you know that 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.639 the driver is going the slower way because they're not 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.120 following GPS or something like that, but it's the way 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.000 you know, they know they're supposed to go every time. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.480 But anyway, I actually read this fascinating study that looked 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.760 at this phenomenon in the context of movie theater popcorn. 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.800 So these researchers named Windy Wood and David Neil, they 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.520 actually made a ton of popcorn and they just left 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.080 it sitting out in their lab for about a week. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.000 Which must have made the lab smell incredible. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:04.560 I'm sure that it did. And I know what a 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.600 huge fan of popcorn you are. That's that sort of 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.960 your candy. But they didn't specify in this case. But 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.160 we all know popcorn is best right after its mate. 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.840 That stuff that set in the lab got really, really stale. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.040 So Wendy and David hosted a movie night at a 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.400 local cinema. They gave out free popcorn. Half the audience 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.840