WEBVTT - An Officer and A Skinhead

0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Col Zone Media.

0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:11.080
<v Speaker 2>In February of twenty nineteen, a federal prosecutor in Maryland

0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.880
<v Speaker 2>made an unusual presentation to a magistrate judge in support

0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.840
<v Speaker 2>of pre trialed attention. Christopher Paul Hassen had just been

0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.520
<v Speaker 2>arrested on charges of possession of a firearm by an

0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:26.759
<v Speaker 2>unlawful user or addict of a controlled substance. It's kind

0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.000
<v Speaker 2>of a technicality. If you've been convicted of drug possession,

0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.599
<v Speaker 2>usually you'd have caught a felony and you can't own

0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.640
<v Speaker 2>a gun anyway. But he hadn't been, and he wasn't

0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.360
<v Speaker 2>and he owned those guns legally. Hassen was a fifty

0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.680
<v Speaker 2>year old married father of two and a lieutenant in

0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.400
<v Speaker 2>the United States Coast Guard with no criminal history to

0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:50.080
<v Speaker 2>speak of. He was also addicted to tramadol, an opioid

0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.920
<v Speaker 2>pain medication that he didn't have a prescription for pre

0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.600
<v Speaker 2>trial attention In a case like this seems a little excessive.

0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.760
<v Speaker 2>You could probably just let him go home home, make

0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.720
<v Speaker 2>him turn in his guns, and order weekly drug screenings

0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.520
<v Speaker 2>with pre trial services. But there was something else going

0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.840
<v Speaker 2>on here. His apartment was packed to the brim with guns, ammunition,

0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:18.039
<v Speaker 2>and tactical gear, and on his computer they found mass

0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:25.280
<v Speaker 2>shooter manifestos, terrorism manuals, and a list of names. I'm

0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Molly Conger, and this is weird, little guys. I thought

0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.600
<v Speaker 2>we could use something a little lighter this week after

0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.600
<v Speaker 2>last week's episode. I know it was a pretty dark

0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.000
<v Speaker 2>one for me to research and write, and I saw

0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.480
<v Speaker 2>some feedback from listeners who said it ruined their day.

0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.920
<v Speaker 2>So fair enough, So nobody dies this week, nobody has

0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.280
<v Speaker 2>a hard drive full of child sexual abuse material, nobody

0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.400
<v Speaker 2>gets shot or raped. There's barely even any hate crimes.

0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.320
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't easy to find a story like that in

0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.400
<v Speaker 2>my mental rolodex, but I.

0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Thought you guys deserved a break.

0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Now, I will admit, upon further reflection, this whole story

0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.880
<v Speaker 2>isn't exactly as funny as my spotty memory had me

0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.160
<v Speaker 2>thinking when I started. I think my own recollection of

0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.959
<v Speaker 2>this being a silly little legal mishap was heavily colored

0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.799
<v Speaker 2>by my own mental state back in twenty twenty when

0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I drove to Maryland to watch this sentencing hearing.

0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.000
<v Speaker 1>When I drove up to the Federal.

0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Courthouse in green Belt, Maryland to see Hassen sentencing hearing

0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.480
<v Speaker 2>on January thirty first, twenty twenty. It's actually my second

0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.320
<v Speaker 2>trip up to that courthouse that month. Just a week earlier,

0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.240
<v Speaker 2>i'd been in another courtroom in that massive building for

0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.920
<v Speaker 2>a detention hearing in another case, three members of the

0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.480
<v Speaker 2>neo Nazi paramilitary group the Base had just been arrested.

0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.160
<v Speaker 2>The government alleged they'd been picked up just days before

0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.639
<v Speaker 2>they could carry out a plan to open fire into

0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.720
<v Speaker 2>a large crowd of heavily armed gun owners in the

0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.680
<v Speaker 2>hopes that the chaos would result in mass casualties. The

0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.600
<v Speaker 2>event they were targeting was one that I had attended

0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.720
<v Speaker 2>as a journalist. It's the annual gun lobby Day in Richmond, Virginia,

0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.320
<v Speaker 2>our state capital. The idea that we'd perhaps just by

0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:31.800
<v Speaker 2>the skin of our teeth, avoided being massacred in a

0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.359
<v Speaker 2>confused crossfire left.

0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Me feeling a little queasy.

0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm not too proud to admit that I was a

0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.720
<v Speaker 2>little on edge at that detention hearing. I dug out

0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.120
<v Speaker 2>my old notebook this weekend to try to remember what

0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:46.839
<v Speaker 2>was going on back then, to sort of get back

0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.600
<v Speaker 2>into that headspace and remind myself of what was going

0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.200
<v Speaker 2>on in these cases. And apparently I did take notes

0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty good ones. But my only memories of that day

0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.640
<v Speaker 2>are how clean the bathrooms were, that I walked out

0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.200
<v Speaker 2>of the bathroom with toilet paper stuck in my tights,

0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and the look on that FBI agent's face when I

0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:13.600
<v Speaker 2>grabbed his phone. So it was a small courtroom. It

0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.920
<v Speaker 2>was just a hearing with a magistrate judge on detention,

0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.640
<v Speaker 2>and normally in court, I try to sit by myself

0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.560
<v Speaker 2>because I like to sit with my legs sort of

0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.039
<v Speaker 2>fold it up underneath me because my feet don't reach

0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.120
<v Speaker 2>the floor. And I have my huge hardcover spiral notebook

0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:29.920
<v Speaker 2>open in my lap and I sort of hunch over

0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:31.920
<v Speaker 2>it like a little gremlin while I take my notes.

0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.440
<v Speaker 2>But it was crowded, so I had to sit next

0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to some federal agent or another, and he was having

0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the damnedest time trying to figure out how to turn

0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.440
<v Speaker 2>off his iPhone. He just kept locking and unlocking it,

0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.560
<v Speaker 2>locking it and unlocking it, and he couldn't figure out

0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.520
<v Speaker 2>why wouldn't turn off? And you know, my general preference

0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.600
<v Speaker 2>to never have a conversation with a cop if I

0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.880
<v Speaker 2>can help it is apparently trumped by my inability to

0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.599
<v Speaker 2>sit idly by while someone is very busy being wrong,

0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.039
<v Speaker 2>and I remember sitting there trying to explain to him

0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.599
<v Speaker 2>that you have to hold down the volume button and

0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the lock button at the same time until it turns off.

0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.599
<v Speaker 2>It's not that complicated. I was trying to explain it.

0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.719
<v Speaker 2>He just kept locking it, unlocking it, turned the volume

0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.800
<v Speaker 2>up and down and locking it, unlocking it, and he.

0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:17.680
<v Speaker 1>Couldn't turn it off.

0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.920
<v Speaker 2>So god knows what came over me, But I just

0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:25.159
<v Speaker 2>I reached over and I did it myself, and you

0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:26.760
<v Speaker 2>would have thought I grabbed his gun.

0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:27.440
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.960
<v Speaker 2>She just looked scandalized. But I was just trying to

0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:35.520
<v Speaker 2>be helpful. You know, I'm a helpful girl. But this

0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.320
<v Speaker 2>isn't a story about Patrick Matthews, Brian Lemley, and William Bilbrow.

0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Of course, that hearing has nothing really at all to

0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.120
<v Speaker 2>do with Christopher Hassen. All that to say, it was

0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.480
<v Speaker 2>my second time that month driving the nearly three hours

0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.240
<v Speaker 2>to Marilyn to sit on a bench in an unfamiliar courtroom,

0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.080
<v Speaker 2>and by the time I was there the second time,

0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:59.240
<v Speaker 2>I was really ruminating on that apparently very nearly successful

0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.920
<v Speaker 2>plot that probably would have claimed my own life among

0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.680
<v Speaker 2>the thousands would have been shot or trampled if Matthews,

0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Lemley and Bilbro had been successful.

0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:09.520
<v Speaker 1>And it had been a busy week in between.

0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Overall, I sat through an eight hour city council annual

0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.880
<v Speaker 2>retreat and went to a school board budget meeting. You know,

0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I just can't resist a municipal government meeting. And the

0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.000
<v Speaker 2>pissant Nazi cry baby who'd spent years threatening me finally

0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.400
<v Speaker 2>got arrested in a pre dawn raid by the FBI,

0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:26.920
<v Speaker 2>but it was for.

0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Something totally unrelated.

0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.880
<v Speaker 2>And I'd put damn near a thousand miles on my

0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.480
<v Speaker 2>car driving back and forth to this courthouse, even though

0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I had no real plan for how he's going to

0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.640
<v Speaker 2>afford to replace my tires. I was having a weird week.

0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.560
<v Speaker 2>So by the time I was reading this government and

0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.839
<v Speaker 2>sentencing memo in the hass in case, I was just

0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.920
<v Speaker 2>looking for a recent to laugh, you know, And like

0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.960
<v Speaker 2>I said, nobody died, it's safe to giggle a little.

0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying the whole story as a joke, but

0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.280
<v Speaker 2>you have to find levity where you can, and where

0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.200
<v Speaker 2>would I even be with a little gallows hue, And

0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.200
<v Speaker 2>all the better when the would be hangman is shackled

0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:04.880
<v Speaker 2>at the ankles.

0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:06.680
<v Speaker 1>But like I.

0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Said, this is a story about Christopher Hassen, not me,

0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.280
<v Speaker 2>and Christopher Hassen may never have been caught at all

0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:20.239
<v Speaker 2>if he just kept his extracurricular interests at home. Evidence

0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.640
<v Speaker 2>produced in this case includes hundreds of pages of logs

0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:28.160
<v Speaker 2>of his computer activity, mostly computer activity he was engaged

0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:33.120
<v Speaker 2>in network. Generally speaking, I'm opposed to the idea of

0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.960
<v Speaker 2>your employer monitoring your Internet history. If you're getting your

0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.760
<v Speaker 2>work done, what difference does it make if you take

0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.400
<v Speaker 2>some breaks during the day to look at Reddit or

0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.800
<v Speaker 2>do a little online shopping, you know. But Hassen worked

0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:49.360
<v Speaker 2>for the government. He was using a government computer on

0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:54.280
<v Speaker 2>a government Internet connection to look at extremist content online.

0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.240
<v Speaker 2>And honestly, I have no idea what his day to

0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.840
<v Speaker 2>day workplace responsibilities could possibly have been, because based on

0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.240
<v Speaker 2>these Internet history logs, he was spending hours and hours

0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:11.920
<v Speaker 2>almost every day looking at things that weren't work And again,

0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.760
<v Speaker 2>in another context, I support time theft, especially from the government,

0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, rock on, but he wasn't scrolling social media.

0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:26.360
<v Speaker 2>The investigation began in November of twenty eighteen. Something he

0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.400
<v Speaker 2>did on his work computers set off an internal flag.

0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:32.880
<v Speaker 2>They never say exactly what it was that ended up

0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.400
<v Speaker 2>getting him flagged. The Coastguard's Internal Threat Assessment report covers

0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.200
<v Speaker 2>his Internet activity from July of twenty sixteen through his

0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.920
<v Speaker 2>arrest in February twenty nineteen, but that report was created retroactively.

0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.560
<v Speaker 2>They didn't actually start monitoring him until something happened in

0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.080
<v Speaker 2>November twenty eighteen.

0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.520
<v Speaker 1>And looking at this report, I.

0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Can't explain why nothing's set off an alarm in the

0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:03.000
<v Speaker 2>IT office before that, but that's what it says, so

0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.080
<v Speaker 2>I guess we just have to take it as written.

0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Throughout the report, you can see that.

0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.920
<v Speaker 2>He was emailing links and PDFs to himself between his

0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:17.320
<v Speaker 2>personal and work email addresses. I don't know why he

0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.079
<v Speaker 2>was doing that. I wonder if maybe he couldn't access

0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.240
<v Speaker 2>his personal email at work, and he couldn't access his

0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.600
<v Speaker 2>work email at home, and he wanted to be able

0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.000
<v Speaker 2>to pick up where he left off in either location. So,

0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.040
<v Speaker 2>for example, in the late evening hours of June seventh,

0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.640
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen, he sent himself five emails from his personal

0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:40.000
<v Speaker 2>email address to his work email address, and each email

0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.480
<v Speaker 2>had an attachment. He was checking out the Anarchist Cookbook,

0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, a classic. He sent himself a PDF called

0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:54.600
<v Speaker 2>US Army Improvised Munition's Handbook and these next three well,

0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I think you will get why I'm confused. He didn't

0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.520
<v Speaker 2>get flagged until a year later, because does he emailed

0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:05.240
<v Speaker 2>himself PDFs called emailing a non how to make semtechs

0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:11.640
<v Speaker 2>in one called home Workshop Explosives by Uncle Fester, and

0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.920
<v Speaker 2>a document just called the Terrorist's Handbook, which is mostly

0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.880
<v Speaker 2>instructions on how to make IEDs. I guess he was

0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.640
<v Speaker 2>smart enough to understand that he shouldn't download these at work,

0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.280
<v Speaker 2>so he emailed them to himself so he could read

0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:33.160
<v Speaker 2>them there. Semtex is a plastic explosive originally developed by

0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.359
<v Speaker 2>the Czech military that has become quite popular with terrorists.

0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.360
<v Speaker 2>And Uncle Fester is a seventy five year old man

0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:44.760
<v Speaker 2>named Stephen Preisler who was arrested last year in Wisconsin

0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:50.120
<v Speaker 2>for making meth. In case you were wondering, I spent

0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.720
<v Speaker 2>hours combing through these reports trying to make some sense

0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.320
<v Speaker 2>of them. And the only thing I can figure that

0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:01.120
<v Speaker 2>really changed in November of twenty eighteen that may have

0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.920
<v Speaker 2>triggered his employer to start looking at his computer activity

0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:10.040
<v Speaker 2>was a sudden intensification of his interest in Russia, and

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.760
<v Speaker 2>this wasn't entirely new. The report shows activity going back

0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.560
<v Speaker 2>to early twenty seventeen for searches like Russian far right

0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Russian Nationalists immigrate to Russia. In June of twenty seventeen,

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 2>he spent an entire workday accessing what the report calls

0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:28.840
<v Speaker 2>quote extensive pro Russian and neo fascist content end quote.

0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.160
<v Speaker 2>He searched for things like national Bolshevism and Fourth Political Theory,

0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.240
<v Speaker 2>which is the title of a book by Alexander Dugan

0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.200
<v Speaker 2>that was a favorite of American neo Nazi Matthew Heinbach.

0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.720
<v Speaker 2>In March of twenty eighteen, he spent another full workday

0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.960
<v Speaker 2>clicking around websites with pro Russian neo fascist content, but

0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.240
<v Speaker 2>none of that triggered any kind of internal alarm on

0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:55.200
<v Speaker 2>his account. The activity logs for November twenty eighteen, though,

0:11:55.880 --> 0:12:00.600
<v Speaker 2>show his first searches for and visits to sput News

0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and RT, which are Russian state run media sites. This

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.319
<v Speaker 2>is another one of those questions we're just not going

0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.160
<v Speaker 2>to get an answer to. But my gut reaction to

0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the way those things coincide is that maybe there was

0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:18.120
<v Speaker 2>an automatic flag placed on some particular website, and maybe

0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.320
<v Speaker 2>it was a website that is Russian state on media,

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.280
<v Speaker 2>or maybe somebody at work just saw him dicking around

0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.760
<v Speaker 2>at his desk and reported him. We'll never know, but

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.520
<v Speaker 2>apparently there is no internal monitoring system that automatically reports

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you to the Coastguard for being on Reddit all day,

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.800
<v Speaker 2>every day, so browse away, I guess. The Coastguard's one

0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.120
<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty page internal Threat Assessment report outlining the

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 2>concerning computer activity over that two and a half year period,

0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>starts out with a summary of his findings, which includes

0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.479
<v Speaker 2>this incredible paragraph.

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.320
<v Speaker 3>Subject's most frequently visited website from twenty seventeen to twenty

0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:02.719
<v Speaker 3>nineteen was the men Going their Own Way migtoe subreddit

0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 3>at www dot reddit dot com, to which subject made

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.439
<v Speaker 3>tens of thousands of total URL visits over a two

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 3>plus year period. Will at the MiG toast subreddit, subject

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.319
<v Speaker 3>routinely access gender based extremist content that promoted discrimination of

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 3>women or hatred towards women on a daily basis. Due

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>to the persistence of the behavior, subject's routine daily activity

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 3>in browsing the MiG toast subreddit is not included in

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:27.960
<v Speaker 3>this chronology of activity.

0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 2>So we don't know why they started looking, but they did.

0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Starting in November of twenty eighteen, the Coastguard started monitoring

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 2>his workplace computer activity in real time. They were logging

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>his keystrokes.

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:44.640
<v Speaker 1>They set up a hidden.

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Camera near his desk to record him during the day,

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.199
<v Speaker 2>and then they started reporting their findings to the FBI,

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:56.080
<v Speaker 2>and by January the FBI was worried too. They got

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.840
<v Speaker 2>warrants for his email accounts, a warrant for his historical

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.079
<v Speaker 2>cell location data, and placed a GPS tracker on his car.

0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 2>They installed a pole camera outside his home, They searched

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.840
<v Speaker 2>his desk at work, and on February fifteenth, twenty nineteen,

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.800
<v Speaker 2>they arrested him in the parking garage outside of Coast

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Guard headquarters in Washington, d C. When he appeared in

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>front of a magistrate judge a week later, the government

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.120
<v Speaker 2>was really only talking about these charges for possession of

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 2>the tramadol that they found in his desk and the

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 2>charge for possessing the firearm while being an unlawful user

0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 2>of a controlled substance. That is, as the judge noted,

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 2>a pretty unremarkable charge. That's not really the kind of

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 2>crime that warrants real time surveillance, secret cameras, parking lot

0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 2>ambush arrests, and pre trialed attention. But with that real

0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 2>time access to his computer activity at work, the investigators

0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.760
<v Speaker 2>saw what they interpreted as a shift. He'd spent years

0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 2>accumulating knowledge and supplies, reading manifestos, buying guns, and now

0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:10.920
<v Speaker 2>it seemed like he was preparing for something. So when

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>an FBI agent writes out an affidavit in support of

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>a search warrant, he has to tell the judge what

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 2>he's looking for and why he needs probable cause.

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Obviously you know that one.

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 2>But what makes probable cause depends on what you're investigating.

0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 2>What crime do you think you're going to find evidence

0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 2>of and why do you think you're going to find

0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 2>it there? Well, Hassena was charged with having a gun

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.640
<v Speaker 2>and a pill problem, So maybe that's what they wrote

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.080
<v Speaker 2>down on the affidavit, right, something about.

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 1>The drugs now.

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 2>According to a defense motion to suppress the evidence sees

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>pursuant to those searches, which was unsuccessful. Quote Agent Harrison

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>asserted he had probable cause to believe the warrants would

0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.800
<v Speaker 2>produce evidence of violations of eighteen usc V. Section one

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>one one one murder in federal jurisdictions one one one

0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 2>four murder or attempted murder of officers or employees of

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:13.440
<v Speaker 2>the United States, three five to one, assassination of Cabinet secretaries,

0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 2>members of Congress, or Supreme Court justices, and three seven

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 2>to one conspiracy to commit the foregoing crimes. That is

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 2>not what he was charged with. The government's motion for

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>detention calls the charges that they actually filed that drug

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 2>stuff quote the tip of the iceberg. And they opened

0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:40.440
<v Speaker 2>their memo with a pretty bold statement, writing, the defendant

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 2>is a domestic terrorist bent on committing acts dangerous to

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>human life that are intended to affect government conduct. And

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.800
<v Speaker 2>so instead of sending the defendant on his way with

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 2>court orders to behave himself until his trial, the government

0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 2>said there is absolutely no way to assure the safety

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.720
<v Speaker 2>of the community except to keep him in custody. And

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>this is where it becomes clear that this case was

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:11.320
<v Speaker 2>never about pain pills. On June second, twenty seventeen, Christopher

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Hassen wrote, then deleted an email draft. He never sent

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.359
<v Speaker 2>this to anyone. It just stayed there in his recoverable

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 2>deleted drafts folder for a year and a half.

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Dear friends, maybe that's a bit of a misnomer. Acquaintance

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.239
<v Speaker 3>is more likely. Hope this finds you well. I am

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.000
<v Speaker 3>dreaming of a way to kill almost every last person

0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.040
<v Speaker 3>on the earth. I think a plague would be most successful.

0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.880
<v Speaker 3>But how do I acquire the needed Spanish flu, bachulism, anthrax?

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 3>Not sure yet, but we'll find something interesting. Idea the

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 3>other day. Start with biological attacks followed by attack on

0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.520
<v Speaker 3>food supply. Have to research this. Two pronged attacks seems

0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.120
<v Speaker 3>it might be more successful. Institute a bombing sniper campaign.

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 3>What can I do? I will not do. Nothing seems

0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.400
<v Speaker 3>inevitable that we are doomed. I don't think I can

0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 3>cause complete destruction on my own. However, if I could

0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 3>enlist the unwitting help of another power, country would be best?

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Who and how to provoke?

0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.119
<v Speaker 2>The letter continues, outlining a plan to purchase land in

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 2>a remote area, noting that he needs to get off

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>drugs to clear his mind to plan this attack, and

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.639
<v Speaker 2>he needs to start stockpiling food and supplies at multiple

0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 2>hidden locations.

0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.640
<v Speaker 1>He writes that he needs to quote.

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Have a serious look end quote at what kinds of

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:41.640
<v Speaker 2>targets would be most effective, speculating that doctors, professors, politicians, judges,

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.200
<v Speaker 2>and leftists in general would be a great place to start.

0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.399
<v Speaker 2>He wants to provoke unrest and then target both sides

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 2>of it to exacerbate tension and maximize casualties, to provoke

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the government to overreact to escalate the violence, and once

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.439
<v Speaker 2>major unrest is underway, he plans to dress as a

0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.399
<v Speaker 2>cop and execute looters. Please send me your violence that

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.000
<v Speaker 2>I may unleash it onto their heads. Guide my hate

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.240
<v Speaker 2>to make a lasting impression on this world.

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.199
<v Speaker 1>So be it, he writes.

0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:20.400
<v Speaker 2>The email is signed very respectfully, Lieutenant Christopher P. Hassen,

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 2>National Security Cutter Acquisition. Three months later, in September of

0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen, drafted another letter. This one has a clear recipient,

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.040
<v Speaker 2>although there is no concrete proof he ever mailed it.

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.640
<v Speaker 2>On September fifth, he did a little online shopping at work.

0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 2>He purchased eleven books from Amazon, mostly those by Life

0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Long neo Nazi activist Harold Covington. Covington is a man

0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.159
<v Speaker 2>who deserves his own episode. He was a member of

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.560
<v Speaker 2>the American Nazi Party in his youth and was discharged

0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:56.879
<v Speaker 2>from the US Army in nineteen seventy three after just

0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.760
<v Speaker 2>two years. Accounts very a little bit here. One nineteen

0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 2>to eighty New York Times article says he quote accepted

0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.359
<v Speaker 2>an early honorable discharge after getting into a tavern brawl

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:14.240
<v Speaker 2>with blacks end quote. I didn't realize we were still

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>saying that in nineteen eighty. I don't really care for

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.399
<v Speaker 2>that New York Times. But the real problem here is

0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 2>that the paper was accepting Covington's own account of things.

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 2>That was his version of why he wasn't in the

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>army anymore. He was actually pushed out of the army

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.000
<v Speaker 2>because of his habit of handing out neo Nazi pamphlets

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.679
<v Speaker 2>to his fellow soldiers. He also has the distinction of

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.800
<v Speaker 2>being the only man I've ever heard of who was

0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 2>deported from Rhodesia for.

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.119
<v Speaker 1>Being too racist.

0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Our guy, Frank Sweeney from a few weeks ago, was

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.480
<v Speaker 2>deported from Rhodesia for stabbing a guy, but there was

0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.919
<v Speaker 2>no indication they had any problem with the Nazi stuff.

0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to spoil too much now. We will

0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.200
<v Speaker 2>definitely have to cover Harold Covington eventually. I want to

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 2>at least make it clear why it's a little troubling

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.120
<v Speaker 2>to be filling your bookshelves with his work. So it's

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:11.040
<v Speaker 2>September twenty seventeen. Hassen is buying a bunch of Covington's novels.

0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.879
<v Speaker 2>He saves a copy of Covington's Northwest Front Handbook to

0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.960
<v Speaker 2>his Google Drive account, and he's spending some time on

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Covington's website learning about his idea for the Northwest Territorial Imperative.

0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.720
<v Speaker 2>This is the idea that American white supremacists should all

0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 2>move out to the Northwest and settle in Washington, Oregon, Idaho,

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 2>and Montana and start taking control of local governments, eventually

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.560
<v Speaker 2>turning the entire region into a white ethno state. Covington

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.159
<v Speaker 2>didn't invent the idea, of course, but he was one

0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.479
<v Speaker 2>of its biggest boosters. He founded the Northwest Front and

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 2>wrote a bunch of books about the topic to try

0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.360
<v Speaker 2>and make it a reality. After reading up on Covington

0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 2>and the Northwest Imperative, Hassen looked at some areas in

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.439
<v Speaker 2>Washington and Idaho on Google Maps. Then he did a

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:05.880
<v Speaker 2>bing so for is Harold Covington. FBI informant has since

0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 2>spent most of the next work day browsing Reddit and

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 2>as he did every day, and doing a little research

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:16.119
<v Speaker 2>on Christian identity. It's a twisted theology that has really

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.920
<v Speaker 2>almost nothing to do with the Christianity you're familiar with.

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.960
<v Speaker 2>It preaches that white Europeans are God's true chosen people.

0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 2>Racial purity is valued above all else. Racial mixing is

0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 2>a violation of God's law. Christian identity believers yearn for

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 2>a white Ethno state, and some of them are willing

0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 2>to kill for it. It was Richard Butler's devotion to

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.160
<v Speaker 2>Christian identity that led him to found the Aryan Nations

0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 2>and establish a large Nazi compound outside of Kurdalene, Idaho.

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Butler's dedication to establishing a sovereign Aryan territory in the

0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Pacific Northwest is what inspired Harold Covington to name the

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 2>plan outlined in his Northwest Front Handbook after him calling

0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.680
<v Speaker 2>it the Butler Plan. That's something Hassen probably learned when

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:03.399
<v Speaker 2>he conducted a being search at his work computer for

0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:09.520
<v Speaker 2>the Butler Plan after spending all afternoon reading about Christian identity.

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:10.280
<v Speaker 1>He must not have.

0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Been totally sold on Christian identity, though, because records show

0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:15.880
<v Speaker 2>he also sent an email that same week to someone

0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 2>at the Asatru foc Assembly. Far from the harmless, if

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.000
<v Speaker 2>sometimes questionable practice of paganism by people of European heritage

0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.720
<v Speaker 2>who are trying to connect with their ancestral ways of

0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.360
<v Speaker 2>life or whatever they believe that might be. The Assatru

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Focussembly is an explicitly white nationalist organization, and they get

0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.800
<v Speaker 2>heavy criticism from their fellow Pagans for the racial hatred

0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 2>that's built into its founding doctrines. But Hassen wrote to

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:44.080
<v Speaker 2>someone at the FOCU assembly asking if they had any

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.440
<v Speaker 2>members in his local area, and he expressed a willingness

0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 2>to drive up to two hundred miles to participate in

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:54.680
<v Speaker 2>group meetings. He ends the email, signing off not by

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.879
<v Speaker 2>saying you know sincerely, or best wishes or thank you,

0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:02.800
<v Speaker 2>or some normal way of ending an email, but instead

0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 2>he writes fourteen words Chris Hassen. The fourteen words refers

0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.600
<v Speaker 2>to the slogan coined by David Lane, the neo Nazi

0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 2>domestic terrorist who died in prison for his role in

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:20.920
<v Speaker 2>the assassination of Jewish broadcaster Alan Bergh. It's commonly used

0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:23.560
<v Speaker 2>in a wide variety of Nazi spaces. It's one of

0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the few things most white nationalists seem to agree on.

0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:29.800
<v Speaker 2>They love the fourteen words, and this isn't actually the

0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 2>first time I've seen it used as the closing of

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:36.520
<v Speaker 2>a letter. For the record, if we must, the fourteen

0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 2>words are we must secure the existence of our people

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and a future for white children. And then there's sort

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.800
<v Speaker 2>of a second fourteen words, and you can use them both,

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you're super into it. The latter half

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 2>is because the beauty of the white Aryan woman must

0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:57.280
<v Speaker 2>not perish from the earth, So that's really beautiful stuff.

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:02.119
<v Speaker 1>David Lane was quite the wordsmith. But back to Chris Hassen.

0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:05.640
<v Speaker 2>After spending a few days on his research into Harold Covington,

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:12.400
<v Speaker 2>he did another being search. He searched for formal introduction letter, example,

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and he read an article about how to write a letter,

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and then he drafted a letter to Harold Covington himself.

0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.880
<v Speaker 3>Mister Covington, I am writing you regards to your ideas

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.919
<v Speaker 3>behind Northwest migration to date, I have read most of

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.399
<v Speaker 3>your books and briefly looked at your website. I am

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:34.680
<v Speaker 3>a longtime white nationalist, having been a skinhead thirty plus

0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:39.880
<v Speaker 3>years ago. Before my time in the military, a.

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.199
<v Speaker 2>Longtime white nationalist and a former skinhead.

0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:48.520
<v Speaker 4>That's quite a revelation. We'll get to that. The letter continues,

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 4>My plans are upon retirement to move to the Northwest,

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 4>most likely Idaho. While I fully support the idea of

0:25:57.119 --> 0:25:59.600
<v Speaker 4>a white homeland, my friends who are still playing it

0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:02.000
<v Speaker 4>being a skinhead at forty plus years old, say that

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.600
<v Speaker 4>you are an informant. That isn't neither here nor there.

0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:07.560
<v Speaker 4>It is not an accusation. The person who told me

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 4>this served a twelve year prison sentence and never rated

0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:12.040
<v Speaker 4>me out, so I will not dispute him, nor will

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 4>I accuse you.

0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:19.800
<v Speaker 2>So that explains his multiple searches for Is Harold Covington

0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:24.840
<v Speaker 2>an FBI informant? Someone had told him that, but he

0:26:24.880 --> 0:26:29.520
<v Speaker 2>decided to write to Covington anyway, it seems. Hassen's attorney

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 2>emphasizes that this was only an email draft. He wrote

0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:35.280
<v Speaker 2>this on his computer, but he never actually sent this

0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:39.240
<v Speaker 2>as an email. Harold Covington died in twenty eighteen, so

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:41.639
<v Speaker 2>he's sign around anymore to ask if he ever got

0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:44.280
<v Speaker 2>a letter in the mail, But his mailing address is

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 2>printed right there on the cover of the Northwest Front Handbook.

0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:50.439
<v Speaker 2>So Hassen may have drafted the letter in his email

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 2>and then printed it out at home or handwritten the

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.359
<v Speaker 2>final version and sent it in the mail.

0:26:57.359 --> 0:26:57.919
<v Speaker 1>We'll never know.

0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:01.879
<v Speaker 2>And in the letter, Hassen says he's reluctant to start

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 2>or join any kind of movement because he's concerned that

0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:08.439
<v Speaker 2>they're all just absolutely infested with informants, and he sees

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>no value in public protests, writing.

0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 3>I never saw a reason for mass protests or wearing uniforms,

0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 3>marching around provoking people with swast, because et cetera. I

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 3>was and am a man of action. You cannot change

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:25.800
<v Speaker 3>minds protesting like that. However, you can make change with

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:27.360
<v Speaker 3>a little focused violence.

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.480
<v Speaker 2>His Internet activity does show a casual interest in real

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.360
<v Speaker 2>estate in remote areas, looking on several occasions at listings

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.320
<v Speaker 2>for cabins in the mountains of North Carolina or Alaska,

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:43.920
<v Speaker 2>as well as looking at properties for sale in Montana, Oregon,

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:48.479
<v Speaker 2>and Idaho, but these searches were relatively few and far between.

0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:51.240
<v Speaker 2>They seemed to interest him only sporadically. He would sort

0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:53.919
<v Speaker 2>of check in on the idea every couple of months,

0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:59.120
<v Speaker 2>compared to his daily obsession with in cell ideology, buying guns,

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:04.639
<v Speaker 2>studying mass murder, unders Brave's manifesto, and eventually building his

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:09.280
<v Speaker 2>target list. But before we move on, I want to

0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:12.720
<v Speaker 2>revisit something he said in that letter, not the stuff

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:16.520
<v Speaker 2>about the White homeland. That's pretty straightforward. He said he

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:20.000
<v Speaker 2>hesitated to reach out to Covington because someone told him

0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 2>that Harold Covington was a snitch, and whoever told him

0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:27.919
<v Speaker 2>this was someone he considered incredibly trustworthy, because apparently this

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:30.600
<v Speaker 2>guy did twelve years behind bars and never read it

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:34.880
<v Speaker 2>him out. The government alludes to this person and this

0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 2>underlying incident that put him in prison a couple of times,

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 2>but it's all either terribly oblique or heavily redacted. And

0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:47.000
<v Speaker 2>when I see a government reaction over something that I

0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:50.400
<v Speaker 2>would like to read, I consider that a personal challenge.

0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Someone has thrown down the gauntlet. I mean, ultimately, whatever

0:28:55.920 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 2>happened one night in Hampton, Virginia in nineteen ninety five

0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:01.440
<v Speaker 2>doesn't necessary have any bearing.

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:02.320
<v Speaker 1>On this case.

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>I could have just moved on, but they blacked out

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:09.200
<v Speaker 2>those details, and I wanted them, and I couldn't let

0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it go, so I figured it out anyway. On February eleventh,

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:19.760
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety five, there was an incident. There's a little

0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 2>bit of a Raschamon situation going on here, with sort

0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.959
<v Speaker 2>of competing and conflicting accounts. There's you know, self serving

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:29.360
<v Speaker 2>half truths, spotty reporting, faded memories.

0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:31.400
<v Speaker 1>It's not a crystal clear picture, but.

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 2>We do know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that

0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:40.200
<v Speaker 2>a skinhead named Stephen Casey Jones went to prison. He

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 2>was convicted by a jury in Hampton, Virginia in September

0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen ninety five on two counts of the use

0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:48.360
<v Speaker 2>of a firearm in the commission of a felony, attempted

0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 2>murder and maiming. He spent over a decade behind bars,

0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 2>serving at least part of his time just down the

0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:58.560
<v Speaker 2>road from where I'm writing this now. Of course I

0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 2>can't find a thirty year old inmate roster. That's not possible.

0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.920
<v Speaker 2>But I do have a Buckingham County record of a

0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:09.280
<v Speaker 2>marriage license issued in two thousand and two and a

0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:10.520
<v Speaker 2>photo of the happy couple.

0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:12.760
<v Speaker 1>No one is smiling.

0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:16.680
<v Speaker 2>He has one arm slung over the woman's shoulders and

0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:18.440
<v Speaker 2>his other arm is supporting a little girl.

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:20.800
<v Speaker 1>She's sort of sitting in the crook.

0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Of his elbow and the way that his hand is

0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>situated sort of pressing her into his chest to study her.

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 2>You can read his knuckle tattoos, Her little pigtails and

0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 2>cute plaid romper seem so at odds with the letters

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 2>h a te spread out over her torso on his fingers.

0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to tell in this photo, but I don't

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:48.560
<v Speaker 2>think he had that big swastika tattoo on the side

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.960
<v Speaker 2>of his neck back then. But the question I set

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:54.840
<v Speaker 2>out to answer, and I'm getting to it, is how

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:58.160
<v Speaker 2>did this guy from out of state end up here?

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>And how does stir her Hassen factor into this? Turning

0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 2>to the newspaper archives, we can start to lay out

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:09.680
<v Speaker 2>the story. That night in February of nineteen ninety five,

0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:12.160
<v Speaker 2>a couple of skinheads rolled up to a house in

0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:12.880
<v Speaker 2>buck Row Beach.

0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 1>It's a neighborhood in Hampton.

0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>They were looking for the homeowner's seventeen year old daughter,

0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:20.640
<v Speaker 2>but it was her father who met them in the

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:27.480
<v Speaker 2>front yard. He told them to leave. They refused, and

0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:32.440
<v Speaker 2>then they argued. Stephen Casey Jones reached into his jacket

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:36.120
<v Speaker 2>and pulled out a gun. He pointed the pistol at

0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:38.840
<v Speaker 2>the girl's father, putting it right in his face and

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 2>pulled the trigger, but it didn't fire, by the grace

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:46.480
<v Speaker 2>of God or pure luck, or because it was a cheap,

0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 2>poorly maintained weapons stored inside the sweaty pocket of a

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 2>skinhead swastika covered jacket, the gun didn't fire, so instead

0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:57.960
<v Speaker 2>he beat the man around the head with the gun,

0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 2>leaving him concussed, her really damaging his hearing and cutting

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:06.760
<v Speaker 2>open his head pretty bad. He needed ten stitches, and

0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:10.800
<v Speaker 2>the police report says that Christopher Hassen was standing right

0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 2>there next to Jones when all of this went down.

0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Newspaper accounts name only two of the men who were

0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 2>there that night, and they don't actually specify exactly how

0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:25.960
<v Speaker 2>many of them there were, just that it was several

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:30.280
<v Speaker 2>or a group, you know, a group of skinheads. Stephen

0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Casey Jones was there. Of course he was arrested, but

0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 2>there's no mention in the newspaper at all of Christopher Hassen. Now,

0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:42.240
<v Speaker 2>I thought I knew the Hassen case pretty well topped

0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:45.280
<v Speaker 2>to bottom from following it when it happened, But I'd

0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 2>never explored this aspect of the story before. And I

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 2>tell you, when I found a thirty year old newspaper

0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:56.480
<v Speaker 2>article naming the third man who is there that night

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety five.

0:32:58.680 --> 0:32:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Who's the highlight of my wheat?

0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I squealed. I was so excited. I love a crossover event.

0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I just couldn't believe these two paths had crossed so

0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:13.640
<v Speaker 2>many years ago, because when I read that name, I

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:17.080
<v Speaker 2>didn't need to look him up. I already know exactly

0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:35.840
<v Speaker 2>who Ryan Maziarka is. In twenty nineteen, the FBI paid

0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Ryan Maziarka a visit. They wanted to get his version

0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 2>of events about this incident in nineteen ninety five. He

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 2>confirmed to them that yes, Hassen had been a skinhead

0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:49.200
<v Speaker 2>back then, but he didn't know him really very well.

0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 2>He said, on the day in question, he was hanging

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:53.880
<v Speaker 2>out with Jones and Hassen, and the three of them

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:56.920
<v Speaker 2>were drinking, and a few hours in they were pretty

0:33:57.000 --> 0:33:57.720
<v Speaker 2>drunk and they.

0:33:57.680 --> 0:33:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Ran out of alcohol.

0:33:59.480 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 2>In his of events, someone suggested that they should go

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 2>over to that girl's house because they knew there was

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:06.840
<v Speaker 2>alcohol there and she could.

0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Get it for them.

0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:11.759
<v Speaker 2>This doesn't quite match up with the accounts provided in

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.839
<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen by the girl in question. Who is now

0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:19.000
<v Speaker 2>a grown woman and her mother, And it's very different

0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:21.000
<v Speaker 2>from the story that was in the newspaper back when

0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:21.600
<v Speaker 2>it happened.

0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:24.240
<v Speaker 1>You see, Ryan.

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Maziarka has a history, and that history starts a few

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.759
<v Speaker 2>months before that night, in February of nineteen ninety five.

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.520
<v Speaker 2>The summer before that, in nineteen ninety four, I and

0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.880
<v Speaker 2>a couple of his teenage skinhead pals had defaced a

0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:43.000
<v Speaker 2>black church. They spray painted white power, you know, leave

0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:48.000
<v Speaker 2>or else, and die n words in fluorescent paint all

0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:52.120
<v Speaker 2>across the exterior walls of this church. One of the

0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:54.440
<v Speaker 2>boys was still a minor, so he got a slap

0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 2>on the wrist. A second boy, Ricky Hunt, was initially charged,

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.280
<v Speaker 2>but his charges ended up getting dropped. It's not clear why.

0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:08.239
<v Speaker 2>And in February of nineteen ninety five, Ryan Maziarka had

0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:12.759
<v Speaker 2>just been convicted and he was facing the possibility of

0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.240
<v Speaker 2>some real jail time under a new hate crime statute

0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:19.120
<v Speaker 2>here in Virginia. They weren't looking for Booze that night.

0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:24.920
<v Speaker 2>They were looking for Ricky. The teenage girl they were

0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 2>there to question was Ricky's girlfriend. In her statement to

0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:31.480
<v Speaker 2>the FBI in twenty nineteen, she said they believed they

0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:34.560
<v Speaker 2>were looking for Ricky that night, quote because they wanted

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:40.400
<v Speaker 2>to cause trouble end quote. Newspaper articles from the time

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.840
<v Speaker 2>stayed outright that Maziarka was looking for Ricky because he

0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:48.320
<v Speaker 2>wanted to fight him. Maziarka ended up getting two years

0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:51.839
<v Speaker 2>for the church vandalism. He caught a conviction that same

0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:55.480
<v Speaker 2>year for having a sawed off shotgun, but for some reason,

0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:57.399
<v Speaker 2>they let him slide on that one. He didn't get

0:35:57.400 --> 0:36:00.839
<v Speaker 2>any additional jail time for it. And in nineteen ninety

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:04.239
<v Speaker 2>seven he shows up in the local paper again. So

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:06.920
<v Speaker 2>he's fresh out of jail and he needed to register

0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:09.560
<v Speaker 2>his car. You know, there's a lot of errands you

0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 2>just can't run when you're locked up, and going to

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.240
<v Speaker 2>the DMV as one of them. So it's nineteen ninety

0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:18.120
<v Speaker 2>seven and he's getting a new license plate. Vanity plates

0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 2>are huge in Virginia. I'm not really sure why, but

0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:23.560
<v Speaker 2>we have more of them than any other state. I

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 2>think it's because they're like a little cheaper here than

0:36:26.000 --> 0:36:27.800
<v Speaker 2>they are in some other states. I think some states

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:29.920
<v Speaker 2>charge a lot of money for it, and it's a

0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:33.919
<v Speaker 2>pretty nominal fee here, but we just love to pay

0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.799
<v Speaker 2>the DMV a little extra money to put some kind

0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 2>of personal message in the back of our cars, and

0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Ryan Maziarka the personal message he wanted to drive around

0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:49.040
<v Speaker 2>town with was zyklon B. He told the newspaper that

0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:51.719
<v Speaker 2>he enjoyed the attention the plate got, saying, quote, I

0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:53.759
<v Speaker 2>want people to ask me what it is to tell

0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:54.640
<v Speaker 2>them it's a big lie.

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:56.320
<v Speaker 1>End quote.

0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:01.279
<v Speaker 2>Zyklon B is, of course, the side gas used in

0:37:01.320 --> 0:37:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the Nazi death camps during the Holocaust, an event Maziarka

0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 2>says he does not believe happened. After a decision by

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.360
<v Speaker 2>the State Department of Motor Vehicles to pull the plate

0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:15.120
<v Speaker 2>for offensive content, Maziarka said.

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.520
<v Speaker 3>When I see displays of black pride or black power,

0:37:20.640 --> 0:37:23.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't go running to my senator, But as soon

0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:26.320
<v Speaker 3>as I get something that represents my race's dominating spirit,

0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:29.680
<v Speaker 3>I get put down for it. Apparently I lost all

0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:33.399
<v Speaker 3>civil rights in this community.

0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 2>He was ultimately unable to return the plates to the DMV.

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Somebody stole them off the back of his car while

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:44.120
<v Speaker 2>he was at work, and the FBI interview with the

0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:46.160
<v Speaker 2>wife of the man who was pistol whipped back in

0:37:46.200 --> 0:37:51.360
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety five reveals the presence of a fourth person

0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:55.480
<v Speaker 2>who was there that night. She too confirmed that Christopher

0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Hassen and Stephen Jones were skinheads, but in her interview

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:03.600
<v Speaker 2>in twenty nineteen she mentions the presence of a woman,

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the girlfriend of someone whose name is redacted. These reports

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:13.400
<v Speaker 2>are all heavily redacted, but they are typed in monospace font,

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 2>which means every character has an identical width. So when

0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:19.920
<v Speaker 2>you're typing on your computer, you're almost certainly using a

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:24.040
<v Speaker 2>variable width font. So the letter I, for example, takes

0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:26.279
<v Speaker 2>up less width on the page than the letter M,

0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 2>so different letters have different widths. But in a monospace font,

0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:34.480
<v Speaker 2>every character takes up the same amount of space, so

0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:37.279
<v Speaker 2>you can more or less tell how many characters are

0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:40.840
<v Speaker 2>being obscured by a redaction. And so in this instance,

0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:45.160
<v Speaker 2>the reaction here is too long to say Jones and

0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:49.880
<v Speaker 2>too short for it to say Stephen Jones, and Hassen's

0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:53.120
<v Speaker 2>name isn't redacted in the documents, his name is just there,

0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:59.440
<v Speaker 2>so that just leaves masi arca. So maybe the woman

0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:04.479
<v Speaker 2>in the van was Ryan's girlfriend, whoever she was, though

0:39:05.120 --> 0:39:08.560
<v Speaker 2>she seemed to be calling the shots, according to what

0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 2>the victim's wife told the FBI years later, when the

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.040
<v Speaker 2>woman in the van demanded they all get back in

0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:19.240
<v Speaker 2>the vehicle to leave, hasn't obeyed. The witness recalled hearing

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:25.440
<v Speaker 2>him say yes, ma'am as he climbed back in. It's

0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.880
<v Speaker 2>hard to pin down exactly if Maziarka was already dating

0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.200
<v Speaker 2>back then the woman who has been his common law

0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:34.400
<v Speaker 2>wife for decades now, but by two thousand they were

0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 2>both contributors to Resistance. The quarterly magazine for Resistance records

0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:42.239
<v Speaker 2>a white power music label, and by two thousand the

0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:45.920
<v Speaker 2>company had been acquired by National Alliance under William Luther Pierce,

0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 2>and the magazine's staff and most of its guest contributors

0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:53.040
<v Speaker 2>were affiliated with the group. Shortly after William Luther Piers

0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:55.480
<v Speaker 2>died in two thousand and two. Corporate pilings reflect a

0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:59.360
<v Speaker 2>series of changes to the Neo Nazi organization's leadership structure.

0:40:00.360 --> 0:40:01.840
<v Speaker 2>I got into a little bit of that period of

0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:05.440
<v Speaker 2>power struggle in the episode about Kevin Alfred Strom. In

0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:08.280
<v Speaker 2>paperwork filed with the Virginia Corporation Commission in two thousand

0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:12.560
<v Speaker 2>and three, Ryan Maziarka is listed as National Alliance's treasurer,

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.440
<v Speaker 2>and he remained on the board until he was pushed

0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:19.800
<v Speaker 2>out in a lawsuit in twenty fourteen. His wife, Angela Forbes,

0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 2>had been handling orders for the skinhead street wear you

0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:25.279
<v Speaker 2>could buy from an ad in Resistance magazine since two

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:29.000
<v Speaker 2>thousand and By two thousand and two, the ad copy

0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:31.360
<v Speaker 2>directed the buyer to make out the money orders to

0:40:31.520 --> 0:40:36.399
<v Speaker 2>her personally, not to National Alliance. I guess what I'm

0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:38.800
<v Speaker 2>getting at here is I don't think he was telling

0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:39.360
<v Speaker 2>the truth.

0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:41.400
<v Speaker 1>When the FBI stopped by in twenty.

0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Nineteen, he admitted to hanging out with Hassen a bit

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:46.560
<v Speaker 2>back in the mid nineties, but he said it was

0:40:46.600 --> 0:40:50.279
<v Speaker 2>only ever about their shared love of skinhead music. He

0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:53.400
<v Speaker 2>says Hassen was always going on about Hitler, but he

0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:58.640
<v Speaker 2>personally didn't really get into that fascist stuff. I know,

0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:01.640
<v Speaker 2>it probably seems weird to spend this much time trying

0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:05.400
<v Speaker 2>to dissect this incident from nineteen ninety five. That's not

0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.680
<v Speaker 2>what Christopher Hassen is charged with. It was thirty years ago.

0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.920
<v Speaker 2>A lot of you probably weren't even born then. But

0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:16.360
<v Speaker 2>the FBI was really interested in it. They sent agents

0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 2>out to talk to a lot of people about this,

0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:22.640
<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out what happened that night, a month

0:41:22.680 --> 0:41:25.960
<v Speaker 2>after Hassen was arrested, and agent spoke with the assailant himself,

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Casey Jones. And immediately after that interview, Jones contacted

0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:34.120
<v Speaker 2>a member of Hassen's family to say he'd been visited

0:41:34.120 --> 0:41:38.360
<v Speaker 2>by an agent. And we know this because that unnamed

0:41:38.400 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 2>family member in turn called Hassen immediately to tell him

0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:45.800
<v Speaker 2>about the phone call they had gotten from Stephen Casey Jones,

0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:51.480
<v Speaker 2>and jail phone calls are recorded. When Hassen heard that

0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:55.319
<v Speaker 2>the FBI had spoken to Jones about him, his reply was,

0:41:56.520 --> 0:42:01.759
<v Speaker 2>oh shit. Hassen was very concerned that Jones would think

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:04.000
<v Speaker 2>that he'd been talking, but.

0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:05.360
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't say about what.

0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:08.919
<v Speaker 2>He was worried the government would offer him a deal

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:12.520
<v Speaker 2>in exchange for information, saying he thought the FBI quote

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:15.640
<v Speaker 2>would try to get me to inform. I wouldn't do that,

0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:17.279
<v Speaker 2>but I'm just saying I got this thing in my

0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:20.760
<v Speaker 2>head where they'd offer me. But he doesn't finish the thought.

0:42:22.080 --> 0:42:23.960
<v Speaker 2>The person on the other end of the line interrupted

0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.439
<v Speaker 2>him before he could finish, saying, quote, there's nothing there

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:33.400
<v Speaker 2>to inform and they could never prove anything, and I

0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:36.560
<v Speaker 2>kind of doubt that anyone was worried the FBI was

0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:40.319
<v Speaker 2>interested in this thirty year old closed case involving non

0:42:40.360 --> 0:42:43.240
<v Speaker 2>life threatening injuries to a victim who has since passed

0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:46.239
<v Speaker 2>away of unrelated causes. Right, they're not talking about this

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:49.680
<v Speaker 2>thing from nineteen ninety five. Stephen Jones was convicted and

0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:53.040
<v Speaker 2>he served his time. He can't be tried for that again.

0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:56.600
<v Speaker 2>It's over. That can't be what Hassen was worried they'd

0:42:56.600 --> 0:43:00.399
<v Speaker 2>make him talk about. So this raises there's a lot

0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:02.280
<v Speaker 2>more questions than it answers.

0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 1>And it turns out it's pretty.

0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Hard to track down the exact identity of a guy

0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:11.799
<v Speaker 2>named Steve Jones who was either twenty or twenty one

0:43:11.920 --> 0:43:15.640
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety five and was from either Tulsa or Atlanta,

0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 2>depending on the newspaper you're reading, but it can be.

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Done in these days.

0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Jones is living in Missouri and is a member

0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:28.080
<v Speaker 2>of an outlaw motorcycle gang called the Sons of Silence.

0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Normally I would couch something like that and allegedly or ostensibly,

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:37.239
<v Speaker 2>but I know Stephen Jones is in the Sons of

0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Silence because the Missouri chapter of the Sons of Silence

0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:43.600
<v Speaker 2>has a clubhouse in Saint Louis, and that clubhouse is

0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:46.000
<v Speaker 2>owned by a corporate entity that the state of Missouri

0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:48.799
<v Speaker 2>dissolved in twenty twenty two because they didn't keep up

0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 2>with their annual paperwork. But the last time they did

0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:57.680
<v Speaker 2>file paperwork, that corporate entity, Bad Influence, Inc. Listed A

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Casey Jones as it's president. Photos of Jones taken

0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 2>more recently than the decades old picture of him in

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:10.080
<v Speaker 2>his Virginia prison jumpsuit show an older Stephen Jones, bearded

0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:14.319
<v Speaker 2>now and heavy set. He's usually wearing his leather motorcycle

0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:18.680
<v Speaker 2>vest with a regional enforcer patch just above his one

0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:23.399
<v Speaker 2>percenter patch, a designation used by motorcycle clubs that embrace criminality.

0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.640
<v Speaker 2>The line work is blown out now. It's faded and

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:31.719
<v Speaker 2>muddied by the years, but you can still just make

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:37.880
<v Speaker 2>out hate spelled across his knuckles. The Department of Justice

0:44:37.920 --> 0:44:40.640
<v Speaker 2>has listed these Sons of Silence as a criminal organization

0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:44.200
<v Speaker 2>for at least twenty years. The group's official logo is

0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:47.000
<v Speaker 2>a bald eagle on top of a stylized letter A,

0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:51.040
<v Speaker 2>which looks remarkably like the Ennheuser Busch A. But I

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:53.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know if the beer company's ever considered suing over it.

0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:59.320
<v Speaker 2>But you also see a different logo sometimes SS bolts

0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:04.800
<v Speaker 2>with sp LSOs written down the lightning bolts that stands

0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:09.560
<v Speaker 2>for support your local Sons of Silence. One recent photo

0:45:09.640 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of Jones with his wife shows her sporting some Sons

0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:15.360
<v Speaker 2>of Silence merchandise. It's a gray T shirt with the

0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:17.680
<v Speaker 2>outline of the state of Missouri with s y l

0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:21.279
<v Speaker 2>SOOS written inside and next to the image in this

0:45:21.400 --> 0:45:26.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of Germanic looking antique style font The shirt reads

0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:34.000
<v Speaker 2>mine eira heist troya. My honor is loyalty. That was

0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:35.760
<v Speaker 2>the slogan of the SS.

0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:51.319
<v Speaker 1>But whatever it was.

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:53.560
<v Speaker 2>That Hassen was worried the government was going to ask

0:45:53.600 --> 0:45:57.400
<v Speaker 2>him about, he clearly wasn't willing or able to parlay

0:45:57.440 --> 0:46:00.920
<v Speaker 2>it into a deal. He ultimately put to two counts

0:46:00.920 --> 0:46:03.759
<v Speaker 2>of owning unregistered silencers, one count of possession of a

0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:07.680
<v Speaker 2>firearm while unlawfully using controlled substances, and one count of

0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:11.680
<v Speaker 2>possession of a controlled substance, and because he pled out

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:14.719
<v Speaker 2>rather than take the case to trial, everything we know

0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:17.440
<v Speaker 2>about the case against Christopher Hassen comes from those initial

0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:22.920
<v Speaker 2>detention hearings and the sentencing memos filed after the plea.

0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:26.640
<v Speaker 2>There is this myth that the courts are some kind

0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:31.759
<v Speaker 2>of final arbiter of the truth. What the court determines

0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:36.319
<v Speaker 2>to be fact simply is now legally true. Right, if

0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:38.680
<v Speaker 2>someone is acquitted of a crime, it can be slanderous

0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:41.680
<v Speaker 2>and defamatory to say otherwise, even if you were the

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:44.399
<v Speaker 2>victim of that crime and your own recollection is at

0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:48.800
<v Speaker 2>odds with the verdict. But there's a difference, I think,

0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:55.080
<v Speaker 2>between arriving at the truth and decreeing it, And I

0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:57.680
<v Speaker 2>would argue that the courts are not really equipped to

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:02.760
<v Speaker 2>locate the truth a just rule on which version presented

0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:06.399
<v Speaker 2>to them is going to be legally true from now on.

0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:10.400
<v Speaker 2>So at this stage in the case, both the defense

0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:13.680
<v Speaker 2>and the prosecution right these long memos explaining to the

0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:18.800
<v Speaker 2>judge why the defendant deserves a particular sentence. He's legally guilty.

0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Now the court accepted his plea, so that's the truth.

0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:26.800
<v Speaker 2>He's guilty, But what kind of punishment he deserves requires

0:47:26.800 --> 0:47:31.680
<v Speaker 2>the court to consider these competing truths. Was he a

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:34.640
<v Speaker 2>loving family man who left his youthful indiscretions in the

0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:38.000
<v Speaker 2>past decades ago, a responsible gun owner, who just had

0:47:38.040 --> 0:47:41.280
<v Speaker 2>a little trouble with pills. Or was he an avowed,

0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:45.719
<v Speaker 2>lifelong white supremacist who, after years of study and stockpiling weapons,

0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:48.640
<v Speaker 2>was in the early stages of preparing for a massive

0:47:48.760 --> 0:47:54.239
<v Speaker 2>terrorist attack. Is there room for something in between? The

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:58.560
<v Speaker 2>Defense paints Hassen as the former. Obviously, the memo begins

0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:01.200
<v Speaker 2>with a bit of biography. Hassen served in the Marine

0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Corps from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen ninety four, when

0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:07.200
<v Speaker 2>he was honorably discharged after several overseas deployments during the

0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:10.600
<v Speaker 2>First Gulf War. He struggled to adapt to civilian life

0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:13.080
<v Speaker 2>and enlisted in the Army National Guard in Virginia barely

0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:17.680
<v Speaker 2>six months after leaving the Marines. But this memo skips

0:48:17.760 --> 0:48:19.960
<v Speaker 2>right to his enlistment in the Coast Guard in nineteen

0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:23.120
<v Speaker 2>ninety six, and it leaves out the fact that he

0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:27.040
<v Speaker 2>transferred from the Virginia National Guard to Arizona in nineteen

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:30.799
<v Speaker 2>ninety five. He told the psychologists who examine him in

0:48:30.800 --> 0:48:33.960
<v Speaker 2>this case that he moved to Arizona in nineteen ninety

0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:38.200
<v Speaker 2>five so he couldn't be made to testify against Stephen

0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Casey Jones. The Defense memo and many of the letters

0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:44.920
<v Speaker 2>written by his friends and family mentioned that he had

0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:48.240
<v Speaker 2>no issues working with colleagues of all races, and mentioning

0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:52.360
<v Speaker 2>a particular black coworker he befriended in two thousand and one.

0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:55.080
<v Speaker 2>The memo waxes poetic for an entire page about his

0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:58.680
<v Speaker 2>loving and supportive relationship with his children, both grown by

0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:02.240
<v Speaker 2>now and with military careers their own. His children shared

0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:05.480
<v Speaker 2>anecdotes about fond childhood memories of their father's love and

0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:09.440
<v Speaker 2>care for them buried deep in the report prepared by

0:49:09.440 --> 0:49:14.279
<v Speaker 2>the defensive psychologists, though there is a passing mention that

0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:18.000
<v Speaker 2>his daughter's decision to marry in secret caused immense strain

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 2>in the family. In her letter, his daughter writes that

0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Hassen met his grandson for the first time when she

0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:27.880
<v Speaker 2>brought the boy to the jail for a visit. There's

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:31.839
<v Speaker 2>no mention in this memo, but the man his daughter

0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:36.480
<v Speaker 2>married in secret is not white. Was this on his

0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:40.680
<v Speaker 2>mind when he typed best N word killing gun into

0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.080
<v Speaker 2>a search engine? What was he thinking about when he

0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:48.080
<v Speaker 2>googled I think my wife is an N word lover.

0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:52.640
<v Speaker 2>The defense says that Hassen's abuse of tramadol got out

0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 2>of hand after he moved to Maryland in twenty sixteen,

0:49:56.200 --> 0:49:58.759
<v Speaker 2>he'd gotten a promotion and moved from North Carolina to

0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:02.640
<v Speaker 2>accept a position in D at Coast Guard Headquarters. He

0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:04.160
<v Speaker 2>and his wife are going through a little bit of

0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:07.200
<v Speaker 2>a rocky period, having trouble adjusting to their kids leaving home,

0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:10.160
<v Speaker 2>and they separated for a while. She didn't join him

0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:13.040
<v Speaker 2>in DC right away, and they reconciled after about a year,

0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:16.360
<v Speaker 2>but they spent that first year he was in DC apart.

0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:20.440
<v Speaker 2>The memo says he was lonely. He was having a

0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:23.680
<v Speaker 2>hard time adjusting to city life, and he hated commuting.

0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:26.400
<v Speaker 2>He hated sitting at a desk all day, and so

0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:29.360
<v Speaker 2>he became increasingly dependent on a drug he'd been abusing

0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:33.440
<v Speaker 2>since twenty twelve. His wife had a prescription for tramadol

0:50:33.480 --> 0:50:36.400
<v Speaker 2>for a chronic pain condition, but now he was turning

0:50:36.440 --> 0:50:39.520
<v Speaker 2>to illegal online pharmacies to buy hundreds of pills at

0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:43.120
<v Speaker 2>a time. The defense hired a medical doctor who diagnosed

0:50:43.160 --> 0:50:46.640
<v Speaker 2>Hassen with opioid use disorder and offered an expert opinion

0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:50.880
<v Speaker 2>that such a condition can cause serious mood disturbances, which

0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:55.560
<v Speaker 2>is true right But in the memo, the attorney stops

0:50:56.080 --> 0:50:59.520
<v Speaker 2>just short of outright claiming that being addicted to opiates

0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:03.239
<v Speaker 2>makes you google where do most Senators live while you're

0:51:03.280 --> 0:51:08.400
<v Speaker 2>shopping for rifle scopes. They do make some valid points

0:51:08.400 --> 0:51:11.200
<v Speaker 2>about the fact that it isn't that weird to own

0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:12.160
<v Speaker 2>a ton of guns.

0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:13.240
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people do.

0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:16.680
<v Speaker 2>And a thousand bullets might sound like a lot of

0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:19.040
<v Speaker 2>bullets if you're not a gun owner, but a serious

0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:22.320
<v Speaker 2>hobbyist could blow through that in a day at the range.

0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:25.840
<v Speaker 2>But overall, the defense sentencing memo rests heavily on this

0:51:26.120 --> 0:51:30.600
<v Speaker 2>very narrow angle of the truth. Friends and relatives and

0:51:30.640 --> 0:51:34.279
<v Speaker 2>neighbors and co workers sent letters of support saying that's

0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:38.440
<v Speaker 2>just not the Chris Hassen I know. One coworker wrote,

0:51:38.840 --> 0:51:41.960
<v Speaker 2>unless the definition of white nationalists has changed, Christopher Hassen

0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:45.160
<v Speaker 2>is not one, noting that he had worked successfully with

0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:48.640
<v Speaker 2>black and Hispanic colleagues for years. There was even a

0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:50.800
<v Speaker 2>letter submitted that was written by a man who'd shared

0:51:50.800 --> 0:51:52.440
<v Speaker 2>a cell block with Hassen while he was in pre

0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:56.400
<v Speaker 2>trial attention. The handwritten letter said he'd gotten to know

0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Hassen over the last few months and he had no

0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:01.880
<v Speaker 2>issues with anyone on their quad, but they played chess together,

0:52:02.000 --> 0:52:05.080
<v Speaker 2>work out and share food, and the man adds helpfully

0:52:05.080 --> 0:52:07.399
<v Speaker 2>that as a black person, he'd never felt that Chris

0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:10.719
<v Speaker 2>was prejudiced in any way. There were multiple letters from

0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:13.800
<v Speaker 2>priests and lay ministers who'd been meeting with Hassen in jail.

0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Apparently he was Catholic again, despite his exploration of Christian

0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:21.200
<v Speaker 2>identity Asatru and a couple of months where he was

0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:26.560
<v Speaker 2>really seriously considering converting to Russian Orthodoxy, but in jail

0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:31.200
<v Speaker 2>he's Catholic again. He confessed and received communion, and a

0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:33.400
<v Speaker 2>priest wrote to the judge that they'd been meeting weekly

0:52:33.480 --> 0:52:38.239
<v Speaker 2>and found Hassen's contrition to be genuine. The defense asked

0:52:38.239 --> 0:52:40.920
<v Speaker 2>for a sentence of time served, immediate release in three

0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:44.799
<v Speaker 2>years of supervision. He just needs treatment. He was never

0:52:44.840 --> 0:52:49.200
<v Speaker 2>going to hurt anyone. The government did something very different.

0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:52.880
<v Speaker 2>In mind, the bulk of the material produced in this

0:52:52.960 --> 0:52:58.440
<v Speaker 2>case outlining his online activity was filed alongside this sentencing memorandum,

0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:02.240
<v Speaker 2>and with everything on the table, a very different picture

0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:07.480
<v Speaker 2>starts to form. In early twenty seventeen, Hassen began obsessively

0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:13.600
<v Speaker 2>studying unders Bravi's manifesto. It's a sprawling fifteen hundred pages,

0:53:13.719 --> 0:53:17.520
<v Speaker 2>part diary, part manual. There's big chunks of plagiarized content

0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:19.040
<v Speaker 2>from other sources.

0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:22.000
<v Speaker 1>It's not great. I mean it's not.

0:53:21.920 --> 0:53:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Great for a lot of reasons. Unders Bravic did murder

0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:28.200
<v Speaker 2>seventy seven people, and most of them were children. But

0:53:28.239 --> 0:53:32.320
<v Speaker 2>the Manifesto was also just kind of bad. But Hassen

0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:35.919
<v Speaker 2>would spend hours at a time, some days reading and

0:53:36.000 --> 0:53:39.840
<v Speaker 2>rereading passages of the Manifesto, and then he'd get online

0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:43.640
<v Speaker 2>and research topics related to those passages. And while the

0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:46.040
<v Speaker 2>defense was telling the truth and they argued that he'd

0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:50.560
<v Speaker 2>always been a gun enthusiast, his purchasing history shows a

0:53:50.600 --> 0:53:55.400
<v Speaker 2>distinct change in his spending habits after he became obsessed

0:53:55.440 --> 0:53:56.640
<v Speaker 2>with the Manifesto.

0:53:58.080 --> 0:53:59.399
<v Speaker 1>In just two years, he.

0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Spent over twelve thousand dollars on holsters, knives, magazines, ammunition, handguards,

0:54:06.000 --> 0:54:09.480
<v Speaker 2>camping supplies, survival foods, steel body armour plates, plate carriers,

0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:12.800
<v Speaker 2>tactical vests and pouches, firearm repair kits, a firearm barrel,

0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:18.839
<v Speaker 2>firing pins, and a thirteen hundred dollars rifle scope. And

0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:21.360
<v Speaker 2>that twelve thousand dollars does not include the money he

0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:26.480
<v Speaker 2>spent on guns themselves. This was accessories, and As was

0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:30.720
<v Speaker 2>already a proficient marksman, but now he's developing an interest

0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:36.480
<v Speaker 2>in long range shooting. He bought a sniper rifle. He

0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:38.920
<v Speaker 2>took it to the shooting range and recorded the rifle's

0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:42.080
<v Speaker 2>performance in a little notebook after he read online that

0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:45.720
<v Speaker 2>snipers use a paper log called a sniper data book

0:54:46.000 --> 0:54:49.440
<v Speaker 2>to document the performance of a particular rifle under different conditions,

0:54:49.480 --> 0:54:53.239
<v Speaker 2>things like temperature, wind, elevation, and anything else that would

0:54:53.239 --> 0:54:57.600
<v Speaker 2>affect the external ballistics of a bullet. He searched for

0:54:57.640 --> 0:55:02.080
<v Speaker 2>information on subsonic rounds, ammunition that doesn't break the sound barrier.

0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes snipers use it because it makes it more difficult

0:55:06.160 --> 0:55:10.040
<v Speaker 2>to determine where the shots are coming from. He searched

0:55:10.040 --> 0:55:14.799
<v Speaker 2>for information about frangible rounds, ammunition that breaks apart on

0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:18.120
<v Speaker 2>impact that can make it impossible for law enforcement to

0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:22.279
<v Speaker 2>learn anything about the gun it was fired from. And

0:55:22.360 --> 0:55:24.640
<v Speaker 2>he bought all the materials he would need to make

0:55:24.680 --> 0:55:29.840
<v Speaker 2>silencers at home, and then he did. And all this

0:55:29.960 --> 0:55:33.480
<v Speaker 2>time he's obsessively searching for things like how to rid

0:55:33.520 --> 0:55:36.839
<v Speaker 2>the US of Jews, how can whites rise up? How

0:55:36.880 --> 0:55:41.160
<v Speaker 2>to bring down US government? And he's reading the unibomber's Manifesto,

0:55:41.800 --> 0:55:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and he's reading the book written by Eric Rudolph. You

0:55:44.880 --> 0:55:48.080
<v Speaker 2>probably know Eric Rudolph as the nineteen ninety six Olympics bomber,

0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:51.560
<v Speaker 2>but he was also a Christian identity extremist who bombed

0:55:51.600 --> 0:55:53.840
<v Speaker 2>two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar.

0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:55.319
<v Speaker 3>I.

0:55:55.360 --> 0:55:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Meanwhile, Hassen is going deeper and deeper down this rabbit hole.

0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:01.760
<v Speaker 2>He's taking more and more more tramadol and buying more

0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and more guns, and he knows he needs to get

0:56:04.920 --> 0:56:08.239
<v Speaker 2>off the drugs. Not for his family or for his

0:56:08.360 --> 0:56:12.120
<v Speaker 2>job or his health. No, he's buying fake urine online

0:56:12.200 --> 0:56:14.080
<v Speaker 2>to beat the PIS tests at work. He doesn't care

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:16.919
<v Speaker 2>about that, And I don't know. Maybe he was thinking

0:56:16.920 --> 0:56:20.000
<v Speaker 2>about his family, but that's not what's on his computer.

0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:23.759
<v Speaker 2>On his computer, it's clear that he wanted to get

0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:26.799
<v Speaker 2>off the drugs to clear his mind so he could

0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:31.960
<v Speaker 2>focus on preparing his attack, And in January of twenty nineteen,

0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:34.720
<v Speaker 2>it was starting to look like he might be working

0:56:34.800 --> 0:56:38.799
<v Speaker 2>up to it. He'd been reading unders Braby's Manifesto like

0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:42.560
<v Speaker 2>it was the Bible for years now. Analysis of his

0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:45.160
<v Speaker 2>computer activity showed that he returned to it often and

0:56:45.200 --> 0:56:48.320
<v Speaker 2>would supplement his reading with additional research on the topics

0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:53.040
<v Speaker 2>it contained. And on January third, twenty nineteen, he opened

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:56.680
<v Speaker 2>the Manifesto on his computer and he searched the text

0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:00.520
<v Speaker 2>for the term category A to read about passage where

0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Brewick lays out the three categories of what he calls traders,

0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:08.800
<v Speaker 2>with Category A being the most influential and highest profile targets.

0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Now I've got.

0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:13.400
<v Speaker 2>My own copy of the Manifesto and I searched for

0:57:13.440 --> 0:57:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Category A. There are at least ninety pages spread across

0:57:17.920 --> 0:57:21.400
<v Speaker 2>this fifteen hundred page document in which Brewick expounds on

0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:24.920
<v Speaker 2>his theories about category A, B, and C traders to

0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the white race or whatever. But to be honest, I'm

0:57:29.000 --> 0:57:31.800
<v Speaker 2>not a pilled out white supremacist, so it's just not

0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:36.040
<v Speaker 2>interesting to me. But Hassen seemed persuaded by Breveck's rambling,

0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>and he started making a spreadsheet, and, consistent with Brevieck's

0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:46.440
<v Speaker 2>advice to target politicians, journalists, Marxists, and nonprofit leaders, he

0:57:46.680 --> 0:57:50.360
<v Speaker 2>filled in names on his Excel spreadsheet. He lists some

0:57:50.560 --> 0:57:55.040
<v Speaker 2>journalists and political commentators MSNBC's Chris Hayes and Ari Melber,

0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:59.400
<v Speaker 2>CNN's Don Lemon and Van Jones. One cell just says

0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Joey in all caps, but based on corresponding Internet activity,

0:58:05.800 --> 0:58:09.919
<v Speaker 2>he'd been googling Joe Scarborough and then he searched for

0:58:10.640 --> 0:58:14.640
<v Speaker 2>where is morning Joe filmed? And then he found Joe

0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Scarborough's home address, and then he spent about thirty five

0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:21.520
<v Speaker 2>seconds just sort of zooming in and out on the

0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:27.080
<v Speaker 2>satellite image of the house in Google Maps. For politicians,

0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:30.800
<v Speaker 2>he selected a wide variety of senators and congressional representatives.

0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:35.400
<v Speaker 2>He wrote down Helosi and Schumer, though he spelled it wrong.

0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Some targets just got crude nicknames, like Senator Bloomin Jew,

0:58:41.920 --> 0:58:45.960
<v Speaker 2>which seems to refer to Senator Richard Blumenthal. He was

0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:50.400
<v Speaker 2>also considering targets like ilan Omar, Alexandria Casio Cortez, Kamala Harris,

0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Maxine Waters, Kristin Gillibrand, and DSA like he just wrote

0:58:56.040 --> 0:59:00.280
<v Speaker 2>the acronym, presumably referring to the organization Democratic Socialist of America.

0:59:01.600 --> 0:59:04.920
<v Speaker 2>He would later find personal information for two female members

0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:10.080
<v Speaker 2>of the organization's national political Committee, and that same week

0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:13.680
<v Speaker 2>he queried the Brevic Manifesto again, this time for the

0:59:13.720 --> 0:59:19.720
<v Speaker 2>word steroids. Hassen's computer records show he made quite a

0:59:19.760 --> 0:59:24.520
<v Speaker 2>few online purchases for steroids, human growth hormone, and testosterone,

0:59:25.480 --> 0:59:28.440
<v Speaker 2>and they found a lot of human growth hormone in

0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:32.240
<v Speaker 2>his apartment. A blood test performed when he was arrested, though,

0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:37.560
<v Speaker 2>showed no trace of anything except the tramadol. In Brevick's manifesto,

0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:41.480
<v Speaker 2>he recommends beginning a six week steroid cycle once you've

0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.360
<v Speaker 2>got all your supplies together and you're finished planning your

0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:45.760
<v Speaker 2>attack and you're entering.

0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:46.720
<v Speaker 1>The preparation phase.

0:59:47.640 --> 0:59:51.760
<v Speaker 2>The idea is to ensure that you are maximally aggressive

0:59:52.400 --> 0:59:53.760
<v Speaker 2>when it's time to strike.

0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:59.840
<v Speaker 1>But he never did. Did he Hassen didn't.

1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:04.600
<v Speaker 2>He was arrested, charged and convicted of a crime that

1:00:05.280 --> 1:00:09.680
<v Speaker 2>really just kind of feels like a technicality. It's legal

1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:13.160
<v Speaker 2>to have a silencer in most states. He just didn't

1:00:13.160 --> 1:00:18.480
<v Speaker 2>do the paperwork. He owned those guns legally, He just

1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:23.040
<v Speaker 2>lied on a form about his drug use. Ordering thousands

1:00:23.080 --> 1:00:25.800
<v Speaker 2>of prescription pain pills from a Mexican pharmacy over the

1:00:25.840 --> 1:00:29.760
<v Speaker 2>internet is definitely illegal, no argument there. But if that's

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:33.840
<v Speaker 2>all that was going on, then he needs rehab prison.

1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:37.600
<v Speaker 2>And if this case had gone to trial, they almost

1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:40.640
<v Speaker 2>certainly would not have been allowed to admit most of

1:00:40.680 --> 1:00:45.920
<v Speaker 2>this material. It's inflammatory and prejudicial and not directly germane

1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:49.040
<v Speaker 2>to the actual criminal charges here. The defense was right

1:00:49.080 --> 1:00:53.200
<v Speaker 2>about that. Legally speaking, a jury would not have seen

1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:57.000
<v Speaker 2>all of this, but a judge is allowed to consider

1:00:57.160 --> 1:01:01.720
<v Speaker 2>uncharged conduct at sentencing. In that sentencing, the government did

1:01:01.760 --> 1:01:06.280
<v Speaker 2>something a little unusual. Hassen is obviously not charged with

1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:09.920
<v Speaker 2>any crime of terrorism. You didn't derail a train or

1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:14.600
<v Speaker 2>join isis or you know, terrorist stuff. But there's something

1:01:14.640 --> 1:01:17.840
<v Speaker 2>called a terrorism sentencing enhancement.

1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:19.680
<v Speaker 1>So this is not a criminal charge.

1:01:19.760 --> 1:01:22.440
<v Speaker 2>This is just something you sort of put on top

1:01:22.520 --> 1:01:24.920
<v Speaker 2>of the sentencing. You know, it sprinkles on top of

1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:28.240
<v Speaker 2>your federal sentence. And typically you see this used in

1:01:28.320 --> 1:01:33.240
<v Speaker 2>cases that actually include a charge of terrorism related crime.

1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:37.720
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense, but in this case, the prosecutor argued

1:01:37.760 --> 1:01:42.440
<v Speaker 2>that terrorism isn't really as well defined in the code

1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:45.680
<v Speaker 2>as you might think, writing that there is actually no

1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:49.680
<v Speaker 2>requirement that the defendant have committed a federal crime of terrorism,

1:01:50.480 --> 1:01:53.520
<v Speaker 2>just that the conduct was calculated to influence or affect

1:01:53.520 --> 1:01:56.520
<v Speaker 2>the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to

1:01:56.560 --> 1:01:58.400
<v Speaker 2>retaliate against governmental conduct.

1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:02.120
<v Speaker 1>All that is required is that the crime of conviction

1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:06.040
<v Speaker 1>or relevant conduct involved.

1:02:05.640 --> 1:02:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Or was intended to promote a federal crime of terrorism.

1:02:08.560 --> 1:02:11.080
<v Speaker 2>So what he's saying here is that you don't actually

1:02:11.120 --> 1:02:15.160
<v Speaker 2>have to charge or convict someone on a terrorism related

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:20.960
<v Speaker 2>crime to use the terrorism sentencing enhancement. All that is

1:02:21.040 --> 1:02:26.080
<v Speaker 2>required is that some relevant conduct here was intended to

1:02:26.240 --> 1:02:30.479
<v Speaker 2>promote a crime of terrorism. And that feels so thin

1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to me. That feels so tangential. It doesn't feel good.

1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:38.360
<v Speaker 2>But they argue that the conviction on the counts related

1:02:38.360 --> 1:02:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to those illegal silencers are inextricably linked to his searches

1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:46.640
<v Speaker 2>for things like most liberal senator? Where do most senators

1:02:46.720 --> 1:02:50.440
<v Speaker 2>live in DC? Do senators have Secret Service protection? Are

1:02:50.480 --> 1:02:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court justices protected? All while he's training to use

1:02:55.320 --> 1:02:59.040
<v Speaker 2>a sniper rifle and making his own silencers. So they're

1:02:59.080 --> 1:03:02.480
<v Speaker 2>saying that that that is relevant conduct here. That's not

1:03:02.520 --> 1:03:04.040
<v Speaker 2>what he was charged with, that's not what he was

1:03:04.080 --> 1:03:10.400
<v Speaker 2>convicted of, But there's relevant conduct here that has terrorism vibes.

1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:15.680
<v Speaker 2>This is a vibes based enhancement. Ultimately, Judge Hazel was

1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:20.680
<v Speaker 2>unmoved by the four hours of testimony from a psychologist

1:03:20.760 --> 1:03:23.760
<v Speaker 2>hired by the defense to opine that Hassen was never

1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:27.960
<v Speaker 2>really going to hurt anybody. Hazel said from the bench

1:03:28.040 --> 1:03:31.160
<v Speaker 2>that zooming in and out on a satellite image of

1:03:31.200 --> 1:03:34.640
<v Speaker 2>someone's house feels like pretty convincing evidence that you are

1:03:34.680 --> 1:03:38.920
<v Speaker 2>targeting particular individuals, and said that quote, there is little

1:03:38.960 --> 1:03:41.840
<v Speaker 2>doubt in the court's mind that the defendant was planning

1:03:41.840 --> 1:03:45.720
<v Speaker 2>to carry out a mass casualty assault in furtherance of

1:03:45.760 --> 1:03:50.920
<v Speaker 2>his white nationalist views. Now forgive me, but I couldn't

1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:53.880
<v Speaker 2>stomach the thirty dollars price tag for the official transcript

1:03:53.880 --> 1:03:56.600
<v Speaker 2>of that sentencing hearing, so I'm relying on my own

1:03:56.640 --> 1:04:01.120
<v Speaker 2>handwritten notes here. But before Judge Hazel denounced Hassen's thirteen

1:04:01.200 --> 1:04:04.400
<v Speaker 2>year sentence, he made it clear that he was quote

1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:09.040
<v Speaker 2>not seeking to protect the public from his views end quote,

1:04:09.680 --> 1:04:14.400
<v Speaker 2>but from his actions, adding that the defendant is not

1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:19.080
<v Speaker 2>alone in those views, that white supremacist ideology is deeply

1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:21.640
<v Speaker 2>embedded in the soul of this country.

1:04:22.000 --> 1:04:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Quote. The seeds were.

1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Planted in sixteen nineteen, and those seeds have grown and

1:04:27.240 --> 1:04:31.040
<v Speaker 2>produced dangerous fruit. Mister Hassen is but one leaf that

1:04:31.120 --> 1:04:34.400
<v Speaker 2>has fallen from that tree. Maybe one day, we as

1:04:34.400 --> 1:04:36.320
<v Speaker 2>a nation will do the hard work of digging up

1:04:36.360 --> 1:04:39.720
<v Speaker 2>the roots of that tree. This sentence is in no

1:04:39.800 --> 1:04:42.840
<v Speaker 2>way intended to be an attempt at that work. It

1:04:42.920 --> 1:04:49.200
<v Speaker 2>simply addresses the conduct of one man end quote. What

1:04:49.440 --> 1:04:53.800
<v Speaker 2>makes me so uneasy in this case is that do

1:04:53.840 --> 1:04:57.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that Christopher Hassen belongs in jail to the

1:04:57.320 --> 1:04:59.600
<v Speaker 2>extent that anyone belongs in jail? Like as sort of

1:04:59.600 --> 1:05:02.560
<v Speaker 2>my own views on prison abolition aside that you know,

1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:07.200
<v Speaker 2>if anyone belongs in jail, then yeah, he seemed like

1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:10.480
<v Speaker 2>he was planning something, right, But the government was clearly

1:05:10.520 --> 1:05:14.280
<v Speaker 2>asking the judge to sentence Hasten for something they didn't

1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:17.320
<v Speaker 2>think they could actually charge him for because.

1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:18.920
<v Speaker 1>They didn't try.

1:05:19.080 --> 1:05:23.760
<v Speaker 2>And if I'm being really honest with myself, that's not

1:05:23.800 --> 1:05:28.200
<v Speaker 2>how it's supposed to work. Technically, he was convicted and

1:05:28.320 --> 1:05:32.040
<v Speaker 2>sentenced for these concrete criminal actions and given sentences that

1:05:32.680 --> 1:05:36.800
<v Speaker 2>technically fall within the guideline range for those crimes, although

1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:42.240
<v Speaker 2>with this dubious terrorism enhancement tacked on, they didn't actually

1:05:42.800 --> 1:05:47.840
<v Speaker 2>charge convict or sentence him for his thoughts and ideas

1:05:47.880 --> 1:05:49.440
<v Speaker 2>and beliefs, right.

1:05:50.840 --> 1:05:56.160
<v Speaker 1>But they kind of did. And how are you supposed

1:05:56.200 --> 1:05:56.880
<v Speaker 1>to feel about that?

1:05:58.360 --> 1:06:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, you have to sit with that, because

1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the alternative was waiting right, keep that pole camera up

1:06:08.040 --> 1:06:11.320
<v Speaker 2>outside his house, keep logging his keystrokes at work, put

1:06:11.320 --> 1:06:13.000
<v Speaker 2>a flag on his name so you know if he

1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:16.120
<v Speaker 2>buys an airline ticket or gets pulled over, just watch

1:06:16.320 --> 1:06:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and wait and hope that you're watching close enough that

1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:23.200
<v Speaker 2>you can intercept him sometime after he sets up the

1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:26.920
<v Speaker 2>sniper's nest, but before he opens fire.

1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:31.440
<v Speaker 1>And is that good enough? Can we find peace.

1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:34.280
<v Speaker 2>With the idea that technically he went away on a

1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:37.560
<v Speaker 2>technicality because they couldn't charge him with what they really

1:06:37.600 --> 1:06:38.600
<v Speaker 2>thought he was doing.

1:06:40.280 --> 1:06:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know.

1:06:44.080 --> 1:06:47.120
<v Speaker 2>I know I promised you something a little lighter instead,

1:06:47.160 --> 1:06:50.200
<v Speaker 2>I've left you with this ethical quandary about the nature

1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:53.280
<v Speaker 2>and purpose of our justice system. But I think I

1:06:53.320 --> 1:06:56.720
<v Speaker 2>remember this case being funny because I just thought it

1:06:56.760 --> 1:07:00.720
<v Speaker 2>was outrageously silly, how specific the documentation was that he

1:07:00.800 --> 1:07:03.720
<v Speaker 2>was using bing to search for information on how to

1:07:03.720 --> 1:07:08.280
<v Speaker 2>make IEDs and also how to write a letter? Does

1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:13.840
<v Speaker 2>anyone use bing? But my favorite Christopher Hassen case fact

1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:17.720
<v Speaker 2>has got to be this one. It's a callback to

1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:21.320
<v Speaker 2>the first episode of this show. Actually on the spreadsheet

1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:24.680
<v Speaker 2>where he was tracking hysteroid cycles. He had the top

1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:28.439
<v Speaker 2>row of the spreadsheet merged into one continuous cell all

1:07:28.480 --> 1:07:31.280
<v Speaker 2>across the top of the sheet, So underneath it's all

1:07:31.320 --> 1:07:35.360
<v Speaker 2>this technical nonsense about dosages and timing and things like

1:07:35.400 --> 1:07:39.720
<v Speaker 2>a reminder to take a shotgun of one thousand units

1:07:39.760 --> 1:07:42.000
<v Speaker 2>of E three D in the last three weeks of

1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:46.280
<v Speaker 2>cycle to prep your testes. I don't know what you're

1:07:46.320 --> 1:07:49.480
<v Speaker 2>preparing your testicles for. That's not my business. But at

1:07:49.480 --> 1:07:54.160
<v Speaker 2>the top of the spreadsheet it says, quote to learn

1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:58.320
<v Speaker 2>who rules over you, simply find out who you were

1:07:58.360 --> 1:08:02.760
<v Speaker 2>not allowed to criticize. And that is the only place

1:08:02.880 --> 1:08:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I have ever found that quote in a federal court filing,

1:08:06.040 --> 1:08:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and I spent some time looking, you know, I did.

1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:12.479
<v Speaker 2>I can't find this in any other federal criminal case.

1:08:13.520 --> 1:08:16.760
<v Speaker 2>It's not clear if Hassen knew who really said that,

1:08:16.960 --> 1:08:19.519
<v Speaker 2>or if he was suffering from the common but mistaken

1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:24.080
<v Speaker 2>idea that it was Voltaire. But given his other online activity,

1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:26.880
<v Speaker 2>I think he probably knew it was a Nazi pedophile.

1:08:28.520 --> 1:08:31.559
<v Speaker 2>And that's all I have for you about Christopher Hassen.

1:08:31.760 --> 1:08:35.680
<v Speaker 2>But our journey through his life and internet history did

1:08:36.000 --> 1:08:39.040
<v Speaker 2>introduce some exciting new characters. In the Weird Little Guy's

1:08:39.080 --> 1:08:42.559
<v Speaker 2>extended universe. I hope you'll stick around to find out

1:08:42.600 --> 1:08:45.200
<v Speaker 2>more about the man who was too racist for Rhodesha,

1:08:46.000 --> 1:08:48.360
<v Speaker 2>or the teenage skinhead who ended up in charge of

1:08:48.400 --> 1:08:50.880
<v Speaker 2>the black metal label that funded a Nazi hate group

1:08:51.479 --> 1:08:52.080
<v Speaker 2>for years.

1:08:56.640 --> 1:08:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Weird Little Guys ziproduction of cool Zone Media. For more

1:08:59.560 --> 1:09:00.400
<v Speaker 1>from quot Zone

1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Media, visit our website polezonmedia dot com, or check us

1:09:04.200 --> 1:09:07.880
<v Speaker 2>out on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.