Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working
Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
Speaker 1: Amazon made a surprise announcement this week that they'll be
Speaker 1: expanding the audio content that comes with their popular Prime service.
Speaker 1: So we've got Jen Sergeant, CEO of Amazon subsidiary Wondering,
Speaker 1: to walk us through the strategy and then stick around
Speaker 1: for a special bonus second interview in this episode with
Speaker 1: j D. Crowley, chief Digital Officer at Odyssey. Podcast is
Speaker 1: a big piece of this radio company as it struggles
Speaker 1: to sell Wall Street on its vision for the future.
Speaker 1: But first, Jen Sergeant. Right after this, we are back
Speaker 1: with Wondering CEO, Jen Sergeant. Good to talk to you, Jen. Hi, Andrew,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me my pleasure. So first, let's just
Speaker 1: walk through what exactly Amazon Prime is bringing to the
Speaker 1: table on the podcast front. What had it done before
Speaker 1: and what is it moving to now. Yes, so, um
Speaker 1: before podcasts were available on Amazon Music, and Amazon Music
Speaker 1: is broken down into three tiers. We have an ad
Speaker 1: supported free tier, we have the Prime tier, which is
Speaker 1: a benefit for our Prime members, and we have Amazon
Speaker 1: Music unlimited UM. But now Prime members can experience the
Speaker 1: most ad free top podcasts from leading publishers like CNN
Speaker 1: and PRUM, The New York Times, Barstool, UH, Slate, ESPNUM,
Speaker 1: along with our Wondering shows like Dr Deaf and Business
Speaker 1: Wars and smart Lists and Morbid, and they can experience
Speaker 1: them all add free UH. And it's for Prime members
Speaker 1: at no additional cost. So what was the rationale here?
Speaker 1: I mean, did you guys have data showing that Prime
Speaker 1: members wanted this kind of thing. Well, previously, we really
Speaker 1: haven't turned on a strong audio benefit for Prime members.
Speaker 1: We haven't made that a priority to let them know
Speaker 1: about it and to lean into UM some of the
Speaker 1: things that that we were already offering through the Amazon
Speaker 1: Music Service. So this was an opportunity to add more
Speaker 1: value to our customers, and that's something we're always looking
Speaker 1: to do. But I'll also say that UM podcasts are
Speaker 1: a fairly new endeavor for Amazon Music. We we launched
Speaker 1: podcasts in the service about two years ago, Wondering was
Speaker 1: acquired INE and UM. We have been building our capabilities
Speaker 1: in the pod has space, and so now seemed like
Speaker 1: the right time to really open this up and and
Speaker 1: and and turn on these extra benefits for our prime members.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned you know this started two years ago.
Speaker 1: Obviously you started with Wondering, which was not always an
Speaker 1: Amazon subsidiary. How you know sort of trace back with
Speaker 1: us the Wondering arc and how it sort of came
Speaker 1: under the Amazon umbrella. Sure. UM, So I joined Wondering
Speaker 1: in summer, and at that time we were a fairly
Speaker 1: early stage BC backed company UM, and we were finding
Speaker 1: our legs in audio storytelling. UM. The founder of the
Speaker 1: company had come from Hollywood and and and many of
Speaker 1: the exacts, including myself, have worked in or around entertainment
Speaker 1: and digital media and UH we saw an opportunity to
Speaker 1: bring Hollywood styles storytelling to audio. That was kind of
Speaker 1: the genesis of Wondering. And as we started to build
Speaker 1: our portfolio of original shows and work into new formats
Speaker 1: and UM new genres, UM, we started to gain more success.
Speaker 1: UM Wondering has always been UH supported by by ads
Speaker 1: by licensing and UM. With the launch of some of
Speaker 1: our early successes Dirty John and Dr Death, we started
Speaker 1: to get into TV shows UM and so those are
Speaker 1: kind of the three lines of our business. We continue
Speaker 1: to grow the business and I think um somewhere in
Speaker 1: twenty uh Amazon, like like many large media companies and
Speaker 1: tech companies, we're looking at additional ways to engage with
Speaker 1: their their their customer bases. And podcasts while arguably innascent
Speaker 1: industry really shows um incredible potential UM in my opinion,
Speaker 1: you know, podcast or for everyone, and um, there's very
Speaker 1: little friction for consumers from a technical perspective to downloading
Speaker 1: and enjoying podcasts. So it seems like a natural place
Speaker 1: and extension that Amazon would go given their already uh
Speaker 1: strong footprint in music and and audiobooks. Podcasts were just
Speaker 1: a natural extension of that. So you know, we obviously
Speaker 1: you know, started conversations and it turned out to be
Speaker 1: a great partnership which led to a marriage, you know
Speaker 1: how these things go, um and and so yeah, we've
Speaker 1: been to the family for a year and a half.
Speaker 1: So now that I've got the backstory on Won Dree,
Speaker 1: I'm just curious about sort of the ad supported side
Speaker 1: of this business versus subscription. I mean, to some degree,
Speaker 1: I wonder whether doesn't doesn't having an ad free subscription
Speaker 1: product possibly cannibalize uh you know, what could be done.
Speaker 1: On the other side, we don't think of it that way.
Speaker 1: I mean, again, I mentioned podcasts are really nascent. We're
Speaker 1: trying to expand the pie. We're trying to grow this.
Speaker 1: We're trying to get more consumers into the podcast landscape.
Speaker 1: And that means a number of things. It's it's it
Speaker 1: means different distribution strategies. It also means just meeting consumers
Speaker 1: where they are, um through through the mediums they're already consuming.
Speaker 1: And so yes, part of our goal, um, and the
Speaker 1: driver of launching this now is to really provide more
Speaker 1: value to Prime members and and with that, we feel
Speaker 1: that ad free and our customers have told us that
Speaker 1: ad free is a really important benefit for them when
Speaker 1: it comes to podcasts. So so that of course was
Speaker 1: our front and center you know goal. UM. But we
Speaker 1: want to reach a broader set of consumers than than
Speaker 1: Prime members, and so that means going wide. And the
Speaker 1: business model there is advertising, and um, you know, advertising
Speaker 1: continues to be a really important part of wonderous business model.
Speaker 1: It's something we're actively growing, it's something that's important to
Speaker 1: Amazon and we think we can balance the two. UM.
Speaker 1: So we don't really think about it as cannibalization. It's
Speaker 1: more about expanding the pie and really getting more consumers
Speaker 1: into this medium. So it's not as if the ad
Speaker 1: business is reaching some sort of ceiling here. Oh not
Speaker 1: at all, UM, not at all, got it. And in
Speaker 1: terms of the you know, there's other ad free subscription
Speaker 1: versions of Amazon podcast. There's one to ree plus, Apple
Speaker 1: I think has a version. I know they're not exactly
Speaker 1: the same offering. But again that cannibalization question, you know,
Speaker 1: how do you not cannibalize one to replus or Apple? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I again, we really don't think about it as cannibalization
Speaker 1: so much as UM There is a differentiation between the
Speaker 1: services UM one. Re Plus is a pure play podcast player,
Speaker 1: whereas Amazon Music is an all encompassing UM audio experience.
Speaker 1: It's music, it's podcasts, it's really an entertainment service that
Speaker 1: includes a lot of different engaging features like live streaming
Speaker 1: and merch. UM. So, yes, shows and content on Wandering
Speaker 1: Plus will still be ad free, but the consumer intent
Speaker 1: is a little different. We're really super serving those those
Speaker 1: passionate UM podcast listeners who listen to you know, hours
Speaker 1: and hours of podcasts today on Wondering Plus, where our
Speaker 1: Amazon Music benefit is really servicing a broad audience of
Speaker 1: prime members UM, who may have already discovered podcasts or
Speaker 1: maybe brand new to podcasts. So UM, we think those
Speaker 1: on ramps are very different. UM. And then the extension
Speaker 1: on Apple UM is the same thing that goes back
Speaker 1: to kind of meeting consumers where they are. UM. Some
Speaker 1: consumers are not prime members, and so we want to
Speaker 1: find them where they're listening versus if they are a
Speaker 1: prime member. We want to deliver UM that value and
Speaker 1: keep increasing the value for their membership. Jenna wanted to
Speaker 1: continue on the content front, Uh, particularly with the exclusives.
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, talk about what what you've got at
Speaker 1: this point, because I know part of this is new
Speaker 1: and kind of a name people recognize. Yeah. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: in terms of exclusive content, Well, how much time do
Speaker 1: you have, Andrew, there there's a lot here. UM. Let
Speaker 1: me go through some of the the the the shows
Speaker 1: that or the names that um your listeners might might recognize.
Speaker 1: So UM, first, we're really excited about a partnership that
Speaker 1: we did with UM Mr ball In UM. Uh he
Speaker 1: goes by Mr ball In. His name is John Allen
Speaker 1: UM and his company is Balling Studios. But John Allen,
Speaker 1: through his Mr Balling podcast is one of the largest
Speaker 1: podcasters out there. UM. He was formerly a Navy seal
Speaker 1: UH turned storyteller. He's actually an amazing storytell a or
Speaker 1: he comes from a long line of storytellers. UM and
Speaker 1: John Uh you know, got his start on on TikTok
Speaker 1: and then launched on YouTube and and just launched his
Speaker 1: podcast this February, and it has really been UM quite
Speaker 1: a sensation, growing month over month and UM. He shares
Speaker 1: stories of the strange, dark and mysterious and really has
Speaker 1: cultivated UM a large and growing audience. So we have
Speaker 1: partner with him to bring Mr Balin exclusive to Amazon Music,
Speaker 1: and we're working with him to UM develop new formats
Speaker 1: as well for local audiences. So that's one of the
Speaker 1: shows that that that fans can expect to find next week. UM.
Speaker 1: You mentioned local audiences. You're talking about the international versions. UM,
Speaker 1: we're looking at new formats UM that could apply to yes,
Speaker 1: local audiences as well. Right, I just want to clarify
Speaker 1: for the listener you me international markets when you say local. Yes,
Speaker 1: Sorry about that, Yes, UM uh countries outside of the US, UM,
Speaker 1: and we're actively expanding to local language podcasts in markets
Speaker 1: like Germany, in Japan, and Mexico for example. Got it
Speaker 1: and Uh, Kiki Palmer a big name we know here
Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Um, what is she going to be doing
Speaker 1: for you guys as an exclusive? Yeah? She has been
Speaker 1: so much fun to work with. So if you're not
Speaker 1: familiar with Kiki, she is really a multi talented creator
Speaker 1: and influencer. Um, she is a musician, she is an actress,
Speaker 1: she is an influencer, and it turns out she's also
Speaker 1: a great influence interviewer. She's, um, just a really curious person.
Speaker 1: Her podcast is called Baby This is Kicky Palmer, and um,
Speaker 1: she is really going to be bringing on guests, um,
Speaker 1: picking a topic each week and taking listeners down a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole with her UM around topics that she's curious
Speaker 1: about and interested in. Her first Um, her first episode
Speaker 1: is actually going to be an interview with Black China
Speaker 1: and the topic is only fans and it's a really
Speaker 1: fun episode. So um, yeah, we're very excited to launch
Speaker 1: this new show with Kiki. So how many exclusive offerings
Speaker 1: are there there? There are quite a bit. Um, there
Speaker 1: are really dozens of them right now on a global basis,
Speaker 1: and we'll be continuing to put more shows into production
Speaker 1: as we get into okay, and I'm also wondering. You know,
Speaker 1: there's obviously a business in terms of monetizing i P
Speaker 1: in other media. Uh, is that part of the strategy
Speaker 1: here in terms of I know not all podcasts fit
Speaker 1: that bill, but I'm curious what you might be doing there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I I mentioned earlier. You know, we had some
Speaker 1: early success with our Wondering podcast pre Amazon taking uh
Speaker 1: the i P and turning it into a TV format,
Speaker 1: and we continue to do that really successfully with the
Speaker 1: recent launch of a Weak Crashed with Joe versus Carol,
Speaker 1: with Dr Death, um, the Shrink next Door, and we
Speaker 1: have a robust pipeline of additional podcast to TV adaptations
Speaker 1: coming up. UM. But we also look at other places
Speaker 1: in ways that the i P can be developed, UM,
Speaker 1: whether that's merged or consumer product lines, live events and
Speaker 1: experiences for our for our fans, UM or books. Really
Speaker 1: it depends on the podcast. Like you said, not every
Speaker 1: podcast can be adapted to other formats, but we try
Speaker 1: to contemplate that from the beginning, and where there is
Speaker 1: an opportunity, UM, we're taking advantage. And obviously being part
Speaker 1: of Amazon UM has been a huge help as we
Speaker 1: think about expanding and working with other divisions of Amazon
Speaker 1: on some of those initiatives. There's a lot of powerful
Speaker 1: competition out there in the podcast space. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: other platforms have exclusives. I'm curious, is there some sort
Speaker 1: of particular direction you're going in terms of differentiation in
Speaker 1: terms of the mix of the content, anything like that.
Speaker 1: You know, when when I think of it, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think of it in terms of our competitors. We
Speaker 1: really try to focus on our listeners and what is
Speaker 1: going to engage them, What is going to UM cause
Speaker 1: them to use their precious time to listen to thirty
Speaker 1: minutes or forty minutes of a podcast, because that's a
Speaker 1: lot more valuable even than their dollar a lot of times.
Speaker 1: So we really try to start with the customer. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, in terms of the direction, just being part
Speaker 1: of Amazon and leveraging Amazon's capabilities, you know, beyond podcasts,
Speaker 1: UM is really I think quite a differentiator for our
Speaker 1: podcasts and for Wondering UM. So we're really focused on
Speaker 1: on how we and best bring that value to prime members. UM.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we're not We're not UM actually hung up
Speaker 1: on any particular type of strategy. The for for me,
Speaker 1: the industry is very early and we want to see
Speaker 1: how this develops. So we are continuing with ad sales,
Speaker 1: were um leaning into prime members and offering that value,
Speaker 1: were licensing and and UM you know, adapting the I
Speaker 1: P as I mentioned, And we'll see how this industry evolves.
Speaker 1: And I think when we get signals that consumers have
Speaker 1: a preference um for certain models versus others, then you know,
Speaker 1: we'll adjust and adapt. But I think we're staying very
Speaker 1: flexible right now to see what our consumers tell us.
Speaker 1: You know, one particular issue that uh, some certain other
Speaker 1: competitors that I won't name the have faced is content
Speaker 1: regulation or moderation. I'm thinking obviously if Joe Rogan and Spotify,
Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you guys have a policy in place
Speaker 1: on this, because I think we're Spotify I got in
Speaker 1: trouble as they really didn't. We do have internal policies
Speaker 1: on this. We also try to look at the content
Speaker 1: at at at at the start of the relationship. You know,
Speaker 1: we we we scrutinize the partnerships that that we do,
Speaker 1: particularly for exclusives and originals, UM and so uh we
Speaker 1: we we try to be thoughtful on the front end.
Speaker 1: But yes, we do have internal policies um around this
Speaker 1: to ensure and um, we're constantly iterating and getting feedback
Speaker 1: and uh, you know when we encounter something. We haven't
Speaker 1: had something like a Joe broken. But I think any
Speaker 1: of the services, including us, are susceptible to this happening
Speaker 1: because we have many interview based and talk based shows. UM.
Speaker 1: So it's something that you know, we take very seriously
Speaker 1: and we're continuing to just adapt as as more um,
Speaker 1: as more information comes out, as we learn more about
Speaker 1: you know, what's what's happening, and and we get feedback
Speaker 1: from our listeners. But we do have internal policies to
Speaker 1: make sure that we're keeping an eye on on what's
Speaker 1: going on. I was curious about just the subscription model
Speaker 1: for podcasts in general. It seems to me that the
Speaker 1: marketplace has been so ad driven for so long. Do
Speaker 1: you sense out there that there is room for subscription? Um, Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that, uh, advertising really took off
Speaker 1: in podcasting because some of the earliest advertisers who have
Speaker 1: leaned in to podcasts were direct response, direct to consumer
Speaker 1: type advertisers, and they had such great results that they
Speaker 1: kept spending more and so that the ad side of
Speaker 1: the industry grew very very quickly. Now we see larger
Speaker 1: brands getting into it naturally because the industry is starting
Speaker 1: to scale more and offer more sophistication. So I think
Speaker 1: the ad side is definitely here. To say. On the
Speaker 1: subscriptions side, I think it's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: chicken and egg where where the industry had to develop
Speaker 1: to a certain point, a certain level of high quality content,
Speaker 1: a certain level of known and popular influencers and hosts
Speaker 1: producing the content to really start to move the wheels
Speaker 1: on subscription and around podcasts, because when you don't have
Speaker 1: the quantity and quality of content there, it's hard to
Speaker 1: get consumers to pay unless they just really happen to
Speaker 1: love the particular host or you know, have a passion
Speaker 1: point for that particular piece of content. UM But in general,
Speaker 1: I think we're just starting to see the early signals
Speaker 1: of what could make a successful subscription business. UM But
Speaker 1: I think consumers are willing to pay, and we see that,
Speaker 1: you know, through Wanndery Plus, through Spotify, now through Apple,
Speaker 1: and of course through other membership programs like Time. We
Speaker 1: also see that in the streaming TV space as well,
Speaker 1: you know we we we see it with players like
Speaker 1: you know, Netflix, and and and and Hulu and and
Speaker 1: and certainly are our our prime video service as well.
Speaker 1: So I think consumers are getting comfortable with subscriptions for
Speaker 1: this type of content. So, um, we'll see how it evolves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it will be definitely interesting to see the evolution here. Jen,
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for taking the time out
Speaker 1: and walking us through what sounds like a very ambitious expansion. Andrew,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for the time today. Will be
Speaker 1: back in just a minute. Now that you've heard from
Speaker 1: Jen Sergeant, let's move on to another executive who knows
Speaker 1: the podcast business well, Odyssey chief Digital Officer j D Crowley.
Speaker 1: I spoke with him on September nineteenth, I d s
Speaker 1: Entertainment and Technology Summit. Thank you for joining us, j D.
Speaker 1: Who you know? I got first got to know you
Speaker 1: when you're at CBS Digital. How did you get you know,
Speaker 1: how did you get into the radio business? You know,
Speaker 1: describe the evolution? Great question, Thanks Andy and always good
Speaker 1: to see you. Um. So yeah, I was advice common
Speaker 1: then CBS for a long time on the TV side
Speaker 1: and learning how linear media becomes digitized and transforms distribution,
Speaker 1: watched all my friends go through it in print. You
Speaker 1: all have done a great job of of growing your business.
Speaker 1: Learned a lot in TV, and about five years ago
Speaker 1: I said, you know, one of the traditional media that
Speaker 1: has not yet been really disrupted or digitized his audio,
Speaker 1: and it seems like there's an opportunity. It also seems
Speaker 1: like there's probably a playbook that we've learned and if
Speaker 1: we could just run that playbook in audio. And at
Speaker 1: the time, going to a radio company, um, I felt
Speaker 1: like the incumbents actually had a shot because there wasn't
Speaker 1: massive number of disruptors coming in, and so took ad
Speaker 1: leap when when at then at the time it was
Speaker 1: inter Com bought CBS Radio and came into the company
Speaker 1: then and since then, we've acquired podcast studios, We've built
Speaker 1: out a diverse digital business in our streaming and direct
Speaker 1: consumer business. We've rebranded the company as Odyssey, and UH
Speaker 1: entered the sports betting space. It's been a really run,
Speaker 1: a fun ride over the last several years of diversification.
Speaker 1: What was the rebranding about. Well, at the time, we
Speaker 1: had a brand called Tercom that nobody knew. We had
Speaker 1: some assets that had CBS, and when you take a
Speaker 1: step back and you actually look at the company that
Speaker 1: is now Odyssey, Uh, it's interesting. We actually owned the
Speaker 1: first commercial radio station in the United States, KATIEK and Pittsburgh,
Speaker 1: which was started I guess in some form or another.
Speaker 1: We've been in the audio business for a century, really
Speaker 1: sort of pioneers in commercial audio. And you have that
Speaker 1: radio business, the first sports radio station ever created in
Speaker 1: w f AN in New York. We have a number
Speaker 1: of firsts in different formats. Obviously the podcast business which
Speaker 1: is growing quickly, and we've we've had some sort of
Speaker 1: pioneering innovation there, a little bit of innovation in the
Speaker 1: technology side in the last year or two. And so
Speaker 1: this business name called Intercom didn't really fit the portfolio
Speaker 1: of assets and the amount of content we created in
Speaker 1: the way consumers and advertisers really knew us. So we
Speaker 1: felt like we we needed to really come out as
Speaker 1: a new brand, as a new name something that says
Speaker 1: to the market, were audacious, we're apologetically audio um and
Speaker 1: really represents the breadth of content and creators that we
Speaker 1: have on platform. So spend some time doing some research,
Speaker 1: worked with some of our friends on the buy side,
Speaker 1: as well and came out with Odyssey uh In. So
Speaker 1: it's only been about a year and a half and
Speaker 1: it's been well received by consumers and advertisers alike, very
Speaker 1: proud of it. What would you say, you're sort of
Speaker 1: the points of distinction in the marketplace that you're in,
Speaker 1: because obviously there's there's other companies as competitors. What are
Speaker 1: you doing righter than them? Well, look, there's really four
Speaker 1: scale players in audio. There's Spotify Series x M which
Speaker 1: on Pandora as well, and and Stitcher. There's iHeart, and
Speaker 1: there's Odyssey, and the four of us sort of have
Speaker 1: complementary businesses. What sets Odyssey apart, and it's front beyond
Speaker 1: the fact that we reached two hundred million Americans between radio,
Speaker 1: podcasting and digital. What sets us apart is our real
Speaker 1: DNA in spoken word audio. If you look at audio consumption, generally,
Speaker 1: audio captures almost one in three of every media minutes
Speaker 1: in the United States among adults, it's a massive numbers,
Speaker 1: well over four hours a day of media consumption on average.
Speaker 1: And about that is music. Well, none of the four
Speaker 1: of us actually own a music publishing catalogue or or
Speaker 1: a label, right, so we don't own that content. Um
Speaker 1: and spoken word. There's there's a lot of ad networks
Speaker 1: and rep firms. What's unique about Odyssey is about our
Speaker 1: revenues actually are derived from content we own and produce,
Speaker 1: and that's unique amongst our competitive set. And it's given
Speaker 1: us a lot of permission to enter things like podcasting,
Speaker 1: to enter things like our our new Betquel sports betting network,
Speaker 1: and to enter other areas. And spoken word also creates
Speaker 1: connections and daily habits with listeners and with advertisers. Um,
Speaker 1: we love the music business. We do really well in it.
Speaker 1: But that spoken word and that ability to create our
Speaker 1: own content, own studios and own our own destiny, I
Speaker 1: think is what sets us apart. So you know, when
Speaker 1: you lay it all out there, audios booming, you guys
Speaker 1: are well diversified. But to hit the elephant in the
Speaker 1: room for a second, your stock got hammered this year.
Speaker 1: It did. What what is Wall Street not getting? Because
Speaker 1: when I listened to it, it sounds like you know
Speaker 1: nothing but upside great, you should be an analyst. So look,
Speaker 1: if you go back to before COVID, we had just
Speaker 1: finished acquiring two podcast studios, Pineapple Street Studios and Cadence
Speaker 1: thirteen to the pre eminent jewels in the podcast space.
Speaker 1: We were just building out our direct consumer streaming service.
Speaker 1: Ratings were on a rise, reach was great in radio,
Speaker 1: Advertisers were starting to work at things like programmatic audio,
Speaker 1: and we were beginning to build on platform pipes. And
Speaker 1: then of course the world stopped. The market went crazy.
Speaker 1: Everybody went down, including us, and we all went into
Speaker 1: triage mode of course, right, and we were at the
Speaker 1: very beginning stages of our digital transformation, our direct consumer transformation,
Speaker 1: and so as we came out of the pandemic and
Speaker 1: started to show growth, and then of course the economic
Speaker 1: uncertainty earlier this year hit as well. So every media
Speaker 1: company is down. You know. Double digits were no exception
Speaker 1: to that, and of course, starting from a smaller based
Speaker 1: post covid sort of puts us down where we are.
Speaker 1: That said, we still believe in our strategy. We believe
Speaker 1: our assets, as you said are are, we believe very
Speaker 1: differentiated and powerful. And as we come out of this
Speaker 1: period of disruption, as our numbers start to grow, and
Speaker 1: as we really show the street proof and I think
Speaker 1: that's the key right growth, businesses have been have turned
Speaker 1: into show me stories. This year. Right, they're not really
Speaker 1: in vogue as they have been. And so as our
Speaker 1: growth business comes out, as our spot business in linear
Speaker 1: radio begins to also recover, we think we'll get paid
Speaker 1: for that. So I look at this as a momentary disruption.
Speaker 1: We'll get through it, as will every other media company
Speaker 1: in the space, and we'll begin to get paid and
Speaker 1: recognize as we put points on the board. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't help but wonder, given that you guys are
Speaker 1: in linear radio, whether there might be some stigma attached
Speaker 1: to that, And if I could ask our friends in
Speaker 1: the back to pull up slide too. I want to
Speaker 1: share we did at Variety Intelligence Form we did a
Speaker 1: survey getting people's attitudes about radio. And what was interesting,
Speaker 1: as you can see on the chart here, is that
Speaker 1: there are people clearly still value radio, but just as
Speaker 1: many people are finding podcasting as a replacement, they prefer
Speaker 1: streaming music whatnot. So make the case for linear radio?
Speaker 1: Is this still something that has growth in it? Yes?
Speaker 1: So it's interesting when you look at perceptions and you
Speaker 1: look at data, many times they get dislocated, particularly in
Speaker 1: a business that's been around for a hundred years, like
Speaker 1: the radio business. Um as I said earlier, one in
Speaker 1: three media minutes are spent with audio, and actually the
Speaker 1: vast majority of those are still spent in AD supported audio,
Speaker 1: and of those the majority are with radio. Of all
Speaker 1: AD supported minutes in a car are with linear radio.
Speaker 1: But out of that one third of media time, only
Speaker 1: nine of media dollars, of advertiser dollars actually get spent
Speaker 1: in audio, generally radio, podcast, streaming, etcetera. And so do
Speaker 1: you remember so of years ago Mary Meeker would do
Speaker 1: her slide decks um still does obviously and comes out
Speaker 1: and there's this mobile gap, right, there's mobile consumption up
Speaker 1: here and mobile monetization is down here, and she looks
Speaker 1: at that as an area of opportunity. And we all
Speaker 1: talked about that mobile monetization gap. I think we and
Speaker 1: our peers in the audio space look at that thirty
Speaker 1: one percent of time spent and nine percent of ad
Speaker 1: spend and say, we're kind of where mobile was a
Speaker 1: few years ago. So there's this rediscovery of audio going on.
Speaker 1: Audio consumption is growing, Audio reach radio reaches the number
Speaker 1: one reach media in the United States. Over of Americans
Speaker 1: listened to broadcast radio on a regular basis. But you're
Speaker 1: right there is a perception gap. You know what's going
Speaker 1: to change that though, And I think what closes that
Speaker 1: delta between that nine percent of spending and thirty one
Speaker 1: percent of time spent is media buyers habits changing, right,
Speaker 1: like like video before it, and like other forms of
Speaker 1: media on platform buying, unified platform buying is really changing
Speaker 1: in the buying industry, and programmatic audio is still very
Speaker 1: small as a relative share of total spend, but it's
Speaker 1: growing rapidly, and we know the playbook and video is
Speaker 1: exactly what is going to happen in audio. And so
Speaker 1: as advertisers begin to value impressions that they can't get
Speaker 1: in broadcast TV by the way, my my former stomping
Speaker 1: ground and are harder to find at least good, qualified, quality,
Speaker 1: brand safe impressions in other forms of digital media, radio
Speaker 1: and podcasting and streaming altogether become a really great asset.
Speaker 1: So I can make the case for linear radio because
Speaker 1: of the consumption, but the case really should be made
Speaker 1: for audio more generally, and for how linear and streaming targeted,
Speaker 1: digital and podcasting, host read and programmatic, how those work
Speaker 1: together for advertisers and from a consumer perspective, as you said,
Speaker 1: the when you come outside, particularly of a city like
Speaker 1: New York where where I live. UM, consumers love their
Speaker 1: local radio station, they love their local personalities. They're starting
Speaker 1: to get them more on digital devices though, and streaming
Speaker 1: radio is growing actually faster than podcasting today. Interesting well,
Speaker 1: as you can see from the data we've got up now,
Speaker 1: and by the way, take advantage of that discount code
Speaker 1: for Variety Intelligence platform. UM, it does show that digital
Speaker 1: is growing. So now that we've discussed the linear slice
Speaker 1: of this, and we'll get to podcasts streaming radio. Personally,
Speaker 1: I've I don't think I've ever even streamed radio. It's
Speaker 1: either that linear podcast. What am I not getting about
Speaker 1: this business? Sure, so it's still very early days in
Speaker 1: radio going. We'll call it over the top for all
Speaker 1: my friends in the TV business, same kind of idea
Speaker 1: or or director consumers. So our Odyssey platform, of course,
Speaker 1: I Hearts I Heart app is no different than a
Speaker 1: Disney Plus or an HBO Max or Paramount Plus, except
Speaker 1: that they are right now predominantly AD supported. And when
Speaker 1: you look at the data, consumers you're right have not
Speaker 1: spent as much time streaming radio because they're very satisfied
Speaker 1: with that. I get in my car, I turn it on,
Speaker 1: or I get you know, into the office and I
Speaker 1: turn on the radio. People did still have radios and
Speaker 1: offices before COVID, and they love it. It works, It
Speaker 1: does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's really easy.
Speaker 1: The listening experience is great, easy to go. So we've
Speaker 1: started solving problems with streaming and radio listeners in the
Speaker 1: same way. TV has um our streaming product, which actually
Speaker 1: has a number of patents, and interactivity is a lot
Speaker 1: like how YouTube TV's interface works. As a v M
Speaker 1: v p D. You can rewind live radio, you can
Speaker 1: go back and play shows from earlier in the day,
Speaker 1: all based in the clouds. Were now adding data where
Speaker 1: if you love this morning show, I'm a Boomer and
Speaker 1: Carton listener, or a Boomer and Geo listener rather in
Speaker 1: New York, I can go back and find exactly what
Speaker 1: they talked about in the morning. I can see they
Speaker 1: talked about the jets imploding. Hit that button and it
Speaker 1: goes right to their right there to that segment. So
Speaker 1: we're doing those kinds of things to make radio streaming
Speaker 1: more appealing to customers who want to get it on
Speaker 1: more digital devices. You also have smart speakers. Smart speakers
Speaker 1: have been a great boon. Radios in the homes, it's
Speaker 1: no secret have declined, but they've actually just been replaced
Speaker 1: by smart speakers, and it's really easy to say play
Speaker 1: K rock or play k and x UM and so
Speaker 1: those are those are driving growth. And then as people
Speaker 1: get back to work, we're actually seeing desktop listening increase.
Speaker 1: People like listening to the radio during the day because
Speaker 1: it's curated, it's handcrafted, it's a companion tool, there's personalities there,
Speaker 1: and so we're gonna do more on the streaming side
Speaker 1: to do things like change the ad experience. Our streams
Speaker 1: don't need to be measured Nielsen in the same way
Speaker 1: linear does. They don't need to be bought in the
Speaker 1: same way. So we can do things like interactivity at
Speaker 1: experience and then again bringing our contents of people on
Speaker 1: demand whenever they want it. UM is something radio has
Speaker 1: not historically invested in up until the last few years. UM. Lastly,
Speaker 1: I would say that data point I referenced earlier, so
Speaker 1: podcast listening captures about six percent of all listening time
Speaker 1: in the US. Streaming radio is now up to about
Speaker 1: five and as I said earlier, it's growing faster than podcasting.
Speaker 1: So we see a world where consumers will say streaming, radio, podcasting,
Speaker 1: it's all the same thing. I like my personalities, I
Speaker 1: like the companionship, and I want to get it on
Speaker 1: my phone or my laptop, or my smart speaker or
Speaker 1: the speaker in my toaster. Someday it doesn't matter to
Speaker 1: us wherever you get it. Um audio kind of engages
Speaker 1: in a different way, and that's that's why I think
Speaker 1: we'll see growth in the next several years. Well before
Speaker 1: we dig in on the podcast side, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot to dig into their you mentioned COVID, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to get a sense from you of how, if
Speaker 1: at all, that disruption, that multi year disruption changed audio habits,
Speaker 1: whether for the entire in the story you're just your company. Well,
Speaker 1: to show you how big linear radio is as a
Speaker 1: share of time. All audio time actually took a big
Speaker 1: decline during COVID. There was a trough. We have a
Speaker 1: survey called chair of Ear, which is measured quarterly and
Speaker 1: goes back to and if you look at it from
Speaker 1: things were steady and then as we headed into COVID,
Speaker 1: you say it's really big v trough. Well, the good
Speaker 1: news is as of second quarter of this year, we're
Speaker 1: back to those levels. That's due to the growth in linear.
Speaker 1: It's also actually due to the growth in streaming and
Speaker 1: just do the growth in podcasting UM and so you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think, as I said before, streaming audio
Speaker 1: is going to streaming radio will continue to have an
Speaker 1: effect on growth overall. I think that linear consumption reach
Speaker 1: is still where it was pre pandemic UM and I
Speaker 1: actually think that the disruption is beneficial because it drove
Speaker 1: sampling of some of these products like more podcasting, like
Speaker 1: streaming radio. And from an advertiser perspective, look, they just
Speaker 1: want more impressions, they just want more reach, They just
Speaker 1: want more targeting, and so audio is retooling itself to
Speaker 1: give it to them across platforms. Another macro circumstance I
Speaker 1: want to unpack is look at the state of the
Speaker 1: economy today. I don't know whether a recession is coming
Speaker 1: or not. Inflation certainly out of control. How is this
Speaker 1: impacting your business? I mean, I don't think it's probably
Speaker 1: impacting the listeners, but I got to imagine marketers are
Speaker 1: maybe a little gunshot. Ye if if anything, it actually
Speaker 1: drives listening up right, radio and podcasting are free and
Speaker 1: um I think will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1: And in times of disruption, people want companionship, they want
Speaker 1: personalities they know. So if anything on listening, it's it's
Speaker 1: a net positive. If anything on the marketer side, you
Speaker 1: know as countless studies out there that show that advertisers
Speaker 1: that cut back during COVID during prior recessions see an
Speaker 1: impact on sales. And that's why I think you're seeing
Speaker 1: this kind of mixed data from a macro perspective in
Speaker 1: the market. UM. The thing that radio has always had
Speaker 1: going for it, which kind of cuts both ways. It
Speaker 1: has always been the lowest CPM media. It's always been
Speaker 1: the lowest cost provider. If you're an advertiser and you
Speaker 1: want reach, there's no place to get it like radio.
Speaker 1: TV doesn't deliver it, print doesn't deliver it at a
Speaker 1: home doesn't deliver it, and they always have the lowest
Speaker 1: CPMs in media. Now, as a guy who comes out
Speaker 1: of digital and TV, I think that's probably also a
Speaker 1: bad thing. I think we need to raise our rates.
Speaker 1: But that said, for advertisers, you can get really efficient
Speaker 1: buys with the reach that radio provides. You what they
Speaker 1: can do now that they couldn't do in two thousand
Speaker 1: eight or during COVID is layer on heavy targeted streaming
Speaker 1: media is layer on podcasting, host endorsement and target advised.
Speaker 1: And so by doing these multi platform buys with folks
Speaker 1: like Odyssey and our scale peers, advertisers can have incredible efficiency,
Speaker 1: lower rates, can get more reach, more frequency out of
Speaker 1: their out of their buys. And we've actually seen no
Speaker 1: offense to my TV friends in the room, but we've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of advertisers who have had success shifting
Speaker 1: portions of their TV budget into radio and into multi
Speaker 1: platform audio and actually delivering significantly greater outcomes for for
Speaker 1: our O. I So I think the recession potential recession,
Speaker 1: if anything, is an opportunity for more advertisers to discover
Speaker 1: that if we can make it easy to buy well,
Speaker 1: you mentioned the advantages is that the low barrier to
Speaker 1: entry is free. Um, but there's been talks as we
Speaker 1: get into the pod case podcast space, subscription podcast maybe
Speaker 1: a thing is that something you guys are looking at? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean today we are a reach vehicle. We want
Speaker 1: to get our content and our creators. We have a
Speaker 1: ton of creators in our company, as you would imagine
Speaker 1: given how much original content. Anytime I say that, or
Speaker 1: anytime I talk about licensing, we have a licensing business
Speaker 1: that is good. We do windowing. But anytime we start
Speaker 1: to talk about that, immediately a creator in the room
Speaker 1: will say, but I want as many people to hear
Speaker 1: my work as possible, And so that's a part of
Speaker 1: our DNA. We understand and supported media. We understand reach
Speaker 1: and scale and distribution. That's not to say that there's
Speaker 1: not consumer revenue models that will take hold in our
Speaker 1: streaming business. Maybe in the podcast business, we're experimenting with
Speaker 1: some of those. There's also, just like you all have done,
Speaker 1: expanding into events and other types of consumer revenue. So
Speaker 1: I think it's a little too early to decide is
Speaker 1: one model or the other. I think podcasting will be
Speaker 1: a diverse set of models, not on like YouTube influencers,
Speaker 1: and there's probably a role for subscription to play in that.
Speaker 1: But today we're most excited about the fact we just
Speaker 1: want to keep growing the pie of what is already
Speaker 1: a massive amount of listeners. So talk about what creators
Speaker 1: you have in house there. I mean, there's obviously a
Speaker 1: bunch of different pieces to the podcast puzzle, but let's
Speaker 1: go one at a time. Sure, And and you know,
Speaker 1: as you said, the barrier to entry is low, except
Speaker 1: unless you're you know, very good at doing this, in
Speaker 1: which case it can be a little bit higher. But
Speaker 1: the cost relative to TV are still very low. Covid
Speaker 1: actually also helped grow our podcast creating business and our
Speaker 1: studio businesses because people couldn't go to set, it couldn't shoot,
Speaker 1: and so they could stay at home. We can send
Speaker 1: them a great quality of microphone and they could record
Speaker 1: great shows. And so whether it's a Glennon Doyle who
Speaker 1: is a part of our cadence, their teen studio, stephen
Speaker 1: A Smith. We have a great partnership with Puck News,
Speaker 1: Punch Hoole, with a number of news businesses. We have
Speaker 1: a great influencer business called Bramble, which actually joint venture
Speaker 1: with our friends at U t A. And it's everyone
Speaker 1: from Charlie and Dixie, Damelio to Smash to Reten Link,
Speaker 1: Emma Chamberlain. That's a great business for us. Um a
Speaker 1: lot in sports, stephen A Smith and a number of
Speaker 1: other creators there. We even have narrative businesses. John Mitcham,
Speaker 1: the historian is a great partner of ours. We have
Speaker 1: an imprint with him. Doc Rivers is a part of
Speaker 1: that as well. Um and then we have a big
Speaker 1: growing original studio at at Caden's thirteen, so a number
Speaker 1: of shows Gone South and others which have been at
Speaker 1: the top of the charts and gotten a lot of
Speaker 1: critical acclaim. And we actually even launched a features business.
Speaker 1: We dot our first one in partnership with Endeavor Content
Speaker 1: and have expanded that business where we're taking scripts which
Speaker 1: are made for feature length films, developing in them and
Speaker 1: producing them as podcasts. First, our first one was with
Speaker 1: Kieranan Shipka called treat Our second when Ghostwriters was with
Speaker 1: Adam Scott and Kate Mara, and those are ultimately destined
Speaker 1: to become feature films using podcasts not only as a
Speaker 1: way to build audience, but as a way to develop
Speaker 1: i P cheaply or relatively cheaply compared to what a
Speaker 1: traditional development window. So that that's our Cadence their teen business,
Speaker 1: and that is a big scale based business. We also
Speaker 1: have a studio called Pineapple Street. Many of you may
Speaker 1: be familiar with them. They do the top companion podcasts,
Speaker 1: did Succession with HBO, UM Winning Time. They've done a
Speaker 1: ton for Netflix, including Don't Look Backs, Companion Show. They
Speaker 1: do a lot of work for brands like Nike and Google,
Speaker 1: but they also create some of the biggest sort of
Speaker 1: chart topping podcasts When to Change, They did Missing which
Speaker 1: Richard Simmons way back, and they have a number of
Speaker 1: hits out this year. So they are a high quality
Speaker 1: boutique studio. And and they actually have a slate deal
Speaker 1: with Amazon, one of the first slate deals I've seen
Speaker 1: in podcasting for partnership for four shows, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: we'll do more there, So that's a great business for us.
Speaker 1: And then and then you know, remember we also on
Speaker 1: the radio side have um let's say, thousand talent across
Speaker 1: the company, across the top fifty markets in the US
Speaker 1: UM and so we're creating a ton of content. They're
Speaker 1: both local engagement as well as in sports. We launched
Speaker 1: a new studio last year called Sports. In its first year,
Speaker 1: it now has over a hundred shows covering all NFL teams,
Speaker 1: NBA teams, MLB teams, And we've got writers and our
Speaker 1: talent and former players who are hosting podcast targeted directly
Speaker 1: at those fan bases. It's growing like crazy. So you know,
Speaker 1: podcasting today is about creating content, resonates with listeners and
Speaker 1: then holding on as it goes so fast and scales
Speaker 1: so fast. It's a lot like the early days of YouTube.
Speaker 1: Collaborations are big, word of mouth is really big. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it comes down to
Speaker 1: give an intimate relationship with a listener. As you know,
Speaker 1: strictly business, you have your your earbuds in their gas plug.
Speaker 1: They're walking around the streets of Manhattan, are driving here
Speaker 1: in their car in l a or or on the train,
Speaker 1: or at home doing dishes at night. That's me um,
Speaker 1: And so you're inside their earbuds and there is no
Speaker 1: more intimate type of media than that. And if you
Speaker 1: can tap into that intimacy and relationship with an audience, um,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a million down liards before you know it.
Speaker 1: So that that's our podcast business on the studio side,
Speaker 1: I should say, on the advertiser side, we also have
Speaker 1: a platform called Podcorn. Podcorn has it's sort of the
Speaker 1: midtail business, the seventy creators. It's unique. No other platform
Speaker 1: has that kind of scale. And this is great if
Speaker 1: you're a brand that wants to come in and say,
Speaker 1: I want to find a thousand shows that have really
Speaker 1: niche but powerful, deep audiences in let's call it road cycling.
Speaker 1: And so with podcorn you can come in as an advertiser.
Speaker 1: You can find these thousand shows in road cycling, they've
Speaker 1: got real niche audiences, and you can very easily buy
Speaker 1: a host red personal endorsement at across all thousand shows
Speaker 1: with the bush of one button. So that's a great platform.
Speaker 1: We bought it about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1: It's scaling like crazy. Great co founders, Um, we're good
Speaker 1: friends of the family and and so we believe they're
Speaker 1: that platform that was also allowing our team to go
Speaker 1: in and find creators that would have never otherwise been
Speaker 1: discovered and then potentially offer them deals for radio, for podcasts, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So that business is a huge, multidimensional business. But it's
Speaker 1: got a great flywall flywell to it. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: there is a lot there and it makes me wonder ballpark,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of podcast digital linear in terms
Speaker 1: of revenue contribution, what is that mixed shift looking like? Well,
Speaker 1: so before the pandemic in en are digital revenues represented
Speaker 1: about nine pcent of our total company revenues, and it
Speaker 1: probably won't surprise you today that we are nearly a
Speaker 1: quarter digital when it comes to revenue mix, and obviously
Speaker 1: that digital is growing and continue to grow double digits.
Speaker 1: It's also a nice diverse business. As you mentioned, we
Speaker 1: have our streaming business with our podcast business, and we
Speaker 1: asked we actually also have a digital agency business that
Speaker 1: local advertisers, the five thousand of them can help activate
Speaker 1: their search campaigns. They're connected TV campaigns, their email campaigns,
Speaker 1: and each of those businesses um are are roughly about
Speaker 1: the same in terms of size and focus. And then
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, we entered the sports betting business, which
Speaker 1: has been taking off. Of course, we bought an app
Speaker 1: called back Quel for that, which is like a it's
Speaker 1: a subscription business, sort of like a Bloomberg terminal for betting.
Speaker 1: If you want to know what has the most profitable
Speaker 1: outcome for tonight's bets, Beq will tell you. But why
Speaker 1: we bought it is we turned it into a content
Speaker 1: marketing business. We created a Baqel network, the leading sports
Speaker 1: betting podcast in the US, and so that's what we
Speaker 1: know how to do. We know how to make content
Speaker 1: and any space we enter, like a sports betting space.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take something that has data and turn it
Speaker 1: into content and turn it into big audiences. Those four
Speaker 1: businesses are our digital business. You know, there's great adjacent
Speaker 1: season synergies between them, and you could think about other
Speaker 1: of adjacencies to those businesses that we might be interested
Speaker 1: in the future. Well, if there's one recurring theme here,
Speaker 1: it's sports. I mean that seems to be kind of
Speaker 1: the specialty for your company, and sports betting I would
Speaker 1: imagine is really going to supercharge that. That's right. Looks
Speaker 1: we are by far and away the number one sports
Speaker 1: audio company in the United States, both in radio and
Speaker 1: in and an audio more generally, also very deep in news.
Speaker 1: Those two together contribute to that market share in spoken word.
Speaker 1: And you know, you gotta know how to do this
Speaker 1: kind of content. It's really hard to open up. I'm
Speaker 1: a huge sports fan. You and I sit down and
Speaker 1: record a sports podcast. I don't think anybody in this
Speaker 1: room is gonna listen to it, probably more because of
Speaker 1: me than you, So you gotta really know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: You gotta know how to engage an audience. Talking about
Speaker 1: sports is about building characters amongst folks in the show.
Speaker 1: It's about really tapping into storylines, knowing when great is
Speaker 1: great and when not great is also great, and understanding
Speaker 1: how to play that role engaging fans. So there's a
Speaker 1: real competency that has to be built, and I think
Speaker 1: that's why, whether it's sports podcasting, whether it's sports betting,
Speaker 1: that E n A in sports has allowed us to
Speaker 1: really quickly enter and scale in those markets. I mean,
Speaker 1: if there's any obstacle in the podcast business, and I
Speaker 1: think you were kind of alluding to this, it's discovery.
Speaker 1: There's just so much out there, So how are you
Speaker 1: able to take care of what's underneath the Odyssey umbrella
Speaker 1: and make sure that it's really maximizing its audience potential. Look,
Speaker 1: we used to say podcasting was an eight twenty business
Speaker 1: where eight percent of the dollars an audience went to
Speaker 1: percent of the shows. I would say now it's probably
Speaker 1: business because there are just so many shows. Anyone, uh,
Speaker 1: including our new sports podcast we're gonna launch next week,
Speaker 1: could launch a podcast. It's very easy to do, and
Speaker 1: so that means you got over three million podcasts, probably
Speaker 1: four million by the time we're done here. Um, This
Speaker 1: is where the power of a network and the power
Speaker 1: of a group of shows together really matters, whether it's
Speaker 1: us or some of our our peers. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: our podcast business has reaches about fifty million people globally
Speaker 1: every month, will over thirty million in the US, almost
Speaker 1: one in three podcast listeners. And so what we do is,
Speaker 1: just like other kinds of media, we let the shows
Speaker 1: talk to each other, we cross pollinate, host we promote
Speaker 1: one show from another. The best way to discover podcasts
Speaker 1: is no surprise on another podcast. So whether it's promoting
Speaker 1: on our Podcorn network, whether it's promoting within our own shows,
Speaker 1: that's really the best way to discovery. But I will
Speaker 1: tell you owning a radio business that reaches a couple
Speaker 1: hundred Americans isn't bad either, And so that allows us
Speaker 1: to not just run ads. But when we did Gone South,
Speaker 1: which was a true crime story in New Orleans, we
Speaker 1: were able to have the reporter call into one of
Speaker 1: our New Orleans stations. They spent an hour on the
Speaker 1: phone talking about this case, and the numbers in New
Speaker 1: Orleans the next day threw off the charts. So, you know,
Speaker 1: having that radio business, the streaming business, and of course
Speaker 1: that podcast network today. That's really the best way to
Speaker 1: get discovery, even more so than leaning on promoted post
Speaker 1: on the platforms or charts or things of that nature.
Speaker 1: But you're also in live events. To some we are
Speaker 1: hearing how material is that. Look, it's a really important
Speaker 1: part of our overall portfolio. We can survive. Coming up
Speaker 1: here next month at the Hollywood Bawl, we just announced
Speaker 1: the lineup. We have Odyssey Beach Fest in Florida coming up.
Speaker 1: Stars and Strings, which is a country event in Florida.
Speaker 1: We do these great multi artist events. We also do
Speaker 1: live events in sports, we do coach talks and things
Speaker 1: of that nature. UM, and we've done other sort of
Speaker 1: civic engagement work, which is a really important part of
Speaker 1: our company. We've done that in our news business, will
Speaker 1: do that leaning into the election. You know, radio and
Speaker 1: events have always worked very well together because people when
Speaker 1: somebody in the morning radio show or in your drive
Speaker 1: home says you gotta check this out, you gotta come
Speaker 1: to this event, you gotta come touch this artist or
Speaker 1: this athlete or this coach or learn from this influence
Speaker 1: or um, people really lean into that, you know, virtual events.
Speaker 1: On the music side, we were talking about have been
Speaker 1: a little bit tricky, but I will say Glenn and Doyle,
Speaker 1: one of our podcast host who has an amazingly engaged community,
Speaker 1: did a virtual event for us and we had I
Speaker 1: think fifty thou people can currently live streaming this event
Speaker 1: who were part of her community. That doesn't just happen
Speaker 1: in live events. So again, I think that connection of
Speaker 1: talent UH and the ability to activate local audiences who
Speaker 1: are the ones going to these events um is a
Speaker 1: real differentiator for us and and for the industry generally. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, as this conversation proves, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: pieces in the Odyssey puzzle, but you've done a good
Speaker 1: job of explaining how it all comes together for this
Speaker 1: broader picture. Thanks for taking the time to talk to you, Judy,
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. Always good to see you. This
Speaker 1: has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next
Speaker 1: week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media movers
Speaker 1: and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to the
Speaker 1: podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review in
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.