WEBVTT - Wondery CEO Jen Sargent Explains Amazon Prime's Podcast Push 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.520 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.000 which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.960 in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.880 Amazon made a surprise announcement this week that they'll be 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:26.200 expanding the audio content that comes with their popular Prime service. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:31.240 So we've got Jen Sergeant, CEO of Amazon subsidiary Wondering, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.000 to walk us through the strategy and then stick around 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.760 for a special bonus second interview in this episode with 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.680 j D. Crowley, chief Digital Officer at Odyssey. Podcast is 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.440 a big piece of this radio company as it struggles 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.920 to sell Wall Street on its vision for the future. 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:59.880 But first, Jen Sergeant. Right after this, we are back 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:05.160 with Wondering CEO, Jen Sergeant. Good to talk to you, Jen. Hi, Andrew, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.720 thanks for having me my pleasure. So first, let's just 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.040 walk through what exactly Amazon Prime is bringing to the 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.240 table on the podcast front. What had it done before 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.680 and what is it moving to now. Yes, so, um 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:26.119 before podcasts were available on Amazon Music, and Amazon Music 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.640 is broken down into three tiers. We have an ad 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.880 supported free tier, we have the Prime tier, which is 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.440 a benefit for our Prime members, and we have Amazon 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.880 Music unlimited UM. But now Prime members can experience the 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:49.360 most ad free top podcasts from leading publishers like CNN 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:56.200 and PRUM, The New York Times, Barstool, UH, Slate, ESPNUM, 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.600 along with our Wondering shows like Dr Deaf and Business 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.760 Wars and smart Lists and Morbid, and they can experience 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.600 them all add free UH. And it's for Prime members 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.959 at no additional cost. So what was the rationale here? 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.519 I mean, did you guys have data showing that Prime 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.160 members wanted this kind of thing. Well, previously, we really 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.440 haven't turned on a strong audio benefit for Prime members. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.440 We haven't made that a priority to let them know 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.160 about it and to lean into UM some of the 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.600 things that that we were already offering through the Amazon 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.200 Music Service. So this was an opportunity to add more 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.920 value to our customers, and that's something we're always looking 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:45.000 to do. But I'll also say that UM podcasts are 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.960 a fairly new endeavor for Amazon Music. We we launched 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.960 podcasts in the service about two years ago, Wondering was 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:59.120 acquired INE and UM. We have been building our capabilities 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.720 in the pod has space, and so now seemed like 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.240 the right time to really open this up and and 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:10.720 and and turn on these extra benefits for our prime members. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.560 So you mentioned you know this started two years ago. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.920 Obviously you started with Wondering, which was not always an 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:22.320 Amazon subsidiary. How you know sort of trace back with 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.400 us the Wondering arc and how it sort of came 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:31.320 under the Amazon umbrella. Sure. UM, So I joined Wondering 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.360 in summer, and at that time we were a fairly 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:39.080 early stage BC backed company UM, and we were finding 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.560 our legs in audio storytelling. UM. The founder of the 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.440 company had come from Hollywood and and and many of 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.480 the exacts, including myself, have worked in or around entertainment 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.840 and digital media and UH we saw an opportunity to 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.160 bring Hollywood styles storytelling to audio. That was kind of 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:02.040 the genesis of Wondering. And as we started to build 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:07.120 our portfolio of original shows and work into new formats 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.720 and UM new genres, UM, we started to gain more success. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.760 UM Wondering has always been UH supported by by ads 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.479 by licensing and UM. With the launch of some of 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.640 our early successes Dirty John and Dr Death, we started 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.520 to get into TV shows UM and so those are 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.839 kind of the three lines of our business. We continue 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.279 to grow the business and I think um somewhere in 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:41.640 twenty uh Amazon, like like many large media companies and 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.640 tech companies, we're looking at additional ways to engage with 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:51.159 their their their customer bases. And podcasts while arguably innascent 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:57.160 industry really shows um incredible potential UM in my opinion, 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.080 you know, podcast or for everyone, and um, there's very 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.479 little friction for consumers from a technical perspective to downloading 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.360 and enjoying podcasts. So it seems like a natural place 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:15.120 and extension that Amazon would go given their already uh 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.000 strong footprint in music and and audiobooks. Podcasts were just 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.800 a natural extension of that. So you know, we obviously 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.800 you know, started conversations and it turned out to be 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.520 a great partnership which led to a marriage, you know 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.440 how these things go, um and and so yeah, we've 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.680 been to the family for a year and a half. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.680 So now that I've got the backstory on Won Dree, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:43.839 I'm just curious about sort of the ad supported side 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.880 of this business versus subscription. I mean, to some degree, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.440 I wonder whether doesn't doesn't having an ad free subscription 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:57.760 product possibly cannibalize uh you know, what could be done. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.640 On the other side, we don't think of it that way. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.880 I mean, again, I mentioned podcasts are really nascent. We're 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.279 trying to expand the pie. We're trying to grow this. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.800 We're trying to get more consumers into the podcast landscape. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.880 And that means a number of things. It's it's it 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.800 means different distribution strategies. It also means just meeting consumers 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.960 where they are, um through through the mediums they're already consuming. 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.719 And so yes, part of our goal, um, and the 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.520 driver of launching this now is to really provide more 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.400 value to Prime members and and with that, we feel 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.159 that ad free and our customers have told us that 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.320 ad free is a really important benefit for them when 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.600 it comes to podcasts. So so that of course was 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.560 our front and center you know goal. UM. But we 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.560 want to reach a broader set of consumers than than 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.320 Prime members, and so that means going wide. And the 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:56.000 business model there is advertising, and um, you know, advertising 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.880 continues to be a really important part of wonderous business model. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.159 It's something we're actively growing, it's something that's important to 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.720 Amazon and we think we can balance the two. UM. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.120 So we don't really think about it as cannibalization. It's 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.280 more about expanding the pie and really getting more consumers 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.240 into this medium. So it's not as if the ad 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.640 business is reaching some sort of ceiling here. Oh not 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:23.360 at all, UM, not at all, got it. And in 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.120 terms of the you know, there's other ad free subscription 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.960 versions of Amazon podcast. There's one to ree plus, Apple 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.240 I think has a version. I know they're not exactly 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.440 the same offering. But again that cannibalization question, you know, 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.320 how do you not cannibalize one to replus or Apple? Yeah, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.440 I again, we really don't think about it as cannibalization 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:51.080 so much as UM There is a differentiation between the 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:56.480 services UM one. Re Plus is a pure play podcast player, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:02.040 whereas Amazon Music is an all encompassing UM audio experience. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.360 It's music, it's podcasts, it's really an entertainment service that 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:10.760 includes a lot of different engaging features like live streaming 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:15.400 and merch. UM. So, yes, shows and content on Wandering 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.360 Plus will still be ad free, but the consumer intent 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.880 is a little different. We're really super serving those those 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:27.800 passionate UM podcast listeners who listen to you know, hours 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.400 and hours of podcasts today on Wondering Plus, where our 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.840 Amazon Music benefit is really servicing a broad audience of 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:40.640 prime members UM, who may have already discovered podcasts or 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.760 maybe brand new to podcasts. So UM, we think those 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.000 on ramps are very different. UM. And then the extension 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.760 on Apple UM is the same thing that goes back 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.680 to kind of meeting consumers where they are. UM. Some 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.920 consumers are not prime members, and so we want to 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.760 find them where they're listening versus if they are a 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.800 prime member. We want to deliver UM that value and 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.640 keep increasing the value for their membership. Jenna wanted to 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.440 continue on the content front, Uh, particularly with the exclusives. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.319 I mean, uh, talk about what what you've got at 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.040 this point, because I know part of this is new 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.400 and kind of a name people recognize. Yeah. Yeah, So 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.440 in terms of exclusive content, Well, how much time do 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.000 you have, Andrew, there there's a lot here. UM. Let 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.000 me go through some of the the the the shows 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:32.360 that or the names that um your listeners might might recognize. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:36.440 So UM, first, we're really excited about a partnership that 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.920 we did with UM Mr ball In UM. Uh he 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.400 goes by Mr ball In. His name is John Allen 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.600 UM and his company is Balling Studios. But John Allen, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.360 through his Mr Balling podcast is one of the largest 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.200 podcasters out there. UM. He was formerly a Navy seal 0:09:56.000 --> 0:10:00.199 UH turned storyteller. He's actually an amazing storytell a or 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.720 he comes from a long line of storytellers. UM and 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.960 John Uh you know, got his start on on TikTok 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.840 and then launched on YouTube and and just launched his 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.240 podcast this February, and it has really been UM quite 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.960 a sensation, growing month over month and UM. He shares 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.640 stories of the strange, dark and mysterious and really has 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.560 cultivated UM a large and growing audience. So we have 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.920 partner with him to bring Mr Balin exclusive to Amazon Music, 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:37.320 and we're working with him to UM develop new formats 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.400 as well for local audiences. So that's one of the 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.400 shows that that that fans can expect to find next week. UM. 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.199 You mentioned local audiences. You're talking about the international versions. UM, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.160 we're looking at new formats UM that could apply to yes, 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.520 local audiences as well. Right, I just want to clarify 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:03.760 for the listener you me international markets when you say local. Yes, 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.199 Sorry about that, Yes, UM uh countries outside of the US, UM, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:14.600 and we're actively expanding to local language podcasts in markets 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:19.439 like Germany, in Japan, and Mexico for example. Got it 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.640 and Uh, Kiki Palmer a big name we know here 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.360 in Hollywood. Um, what is she going to be doing 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.439 for you guys as an exclusive? Yeah? She has been 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.280 so much fun to work with. So if you're not 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:36.000 familiar with Kiki, she is really a multi talented creator 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.880 and influencer. Um, she is a musician, she is an actress, 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.520 she is an influencer, and it turns out she's also 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:48.640 a great influence interviewer. She's, um, just a really curious person. 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.560 Her podcast is called Baby This is Kicky Palmer, and um, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.800 she is really going to be bringing on guests, um, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.439 picking a topic each week and taking listeners down a 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.320 rabbit hole with her UM around topics that she's curious 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:10.440 about and interested in. Her first Um, her first episode 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.720 is actually going to be an interview with Black China 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.439 and the topic is only fans and it's a really 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.640 fun episode. So um, yeah, we're very excited to launch 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.439 this new show with Kiki. So how many exclusive offerings 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.040 are there there? There are quite a bit. Um, there 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.600 are really dozens of them right now on a global basis, 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.559 and we'll be continuing to put more shows into production 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.840 as we get into okay, and I'm also wondering. You know, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.079 there's obviously a business in terms of monetizing i P 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.560 in other media. Uh, is that part of the strategy 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.840 here in terms of I know not all podcasts fit 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.440 that bill, but I'm curious what you might be doing there. Yeah, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.040 so I I mentioned earlier. You know, we had some 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.520 early success with our Wondering podcast pre Amazon taking uh 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.760 the i P and turning it into a TV format, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.880 and we continue to do that really successfully with the 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.360 recent launch of a Weak Crashed with Joe versus Carol, 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.560 with Dr Death, um, the Shrink next Door, and we 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:23.600 have a robust pipeline of additional podcast to TV adaptations 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.199 coming up. UM. But we also look at other places 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.079 in ways that the i P can be developed, UM, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.800 whether that's merged or consumer product lines, live events and 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:40.640 experiences for our for our fans, UM or books. Really 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.520 it depends on the podcast. Like you said, not every 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.160 podcast can be adapted to other formats, but we try 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.559 to contemplate that from the beginning, and where there is 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.560 an opportunity, UM, we're taking advantage. And obviously being part 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.360 of Amazon UM has been a huge help as we 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.880 think about expanding and working with other divisions of Amazon 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.720 on some of those initiatives. There's a lot of powerful 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.480 competition out there in the podcast space. UM. You know, 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.520 other platforms have exclusives. I'm curious, is there some sort 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:14.840 of particular direction you're going in terms of differentiation in 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.080 terms of the mix of the content, anything like that. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.400 You know, when when I think of it, I don't 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.040 necessarily think of it in terms of our competitors. We 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.320 really try to focus on our listeners and what is 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.280 going to engage them, What is going to UM cause 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.520 them to use their precious time to listen to thirty 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.320 minutes or forty minutes of a podcast, because that's a 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.360 lot more valuable even than their dollar a lot of times. 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.480 So we really try to start with the customer. UM. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.840 You know, in terms of the direction, just being part 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:51.080 of Amazon and leveraging Amazon's capabilities, you know, beyond podcasts, 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.000 UM is really I think quite a differentiator for our 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.320 podcasts and for Wondering UM. So we're really focused on 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.800 on how we and best bring that value to prime members. UM. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.880 But yeah, we're not We're not UM actually hung up 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.640 on any particular type of strategy. The for for me, 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.080 the industry is very early and we want to see 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.040 how this develops. So we are continuing with ad sales, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.640 were um leaning into prime members and offering that value, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.960 were licensing and and UM you know, adapting the I 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.960 P as I mentioned, And we'll see how this industry evolves. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.160 And I think when we get signals that consumers have 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.960 a preference um for certain models versus others, then you know, 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.880 we'll adjust and adapt. But I think we're staying very 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.720 flexible right now to see what our consumers tell us. 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.560 You know, one particular issue that uh, some certain other 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.320 competitors that I won't name the have faced is content 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:56.480 regulation or moderation. I'm thinking obviously if Joe Rogan and Spotify, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.880 I'm curious, do you guys have a policy in place 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.240 on this, because I think we're Spotify I got in 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.040 trouble as they really didn't. We do have internal policies 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.760 on this. We also try to look at the content 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.520 at at at at the start of the relationship. You know, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.400 we we we scrutinize the partnerships that that we do, 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:21.200 particularly for exclusives and originals, UM and so uh we 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.240 we we try to be thoughtful on the front end. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.600 But yes, we do have internal policies um around this 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.920 to ensure and um, we're constantly iterating and getting feedback 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.920 and uh, you know when we encounter something. We haven't 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.440 had something like a Joe broken. But I think any 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.840 of the services, including us, are susceptible to this happening 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.120 because we have many interview based and talk based shows. UM. 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.920 So it's something that you know, we take very seriously 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:55.320 and we're continuing to just adapt as as more um, 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.440 as more information comes out, as we learn more about 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:02.280 you know, what's what's happening, and and we get feedback 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.000 from our listeners. But we do have internal policies to 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.120 make sure that we're keeping an eye on on what's 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.840 going on. I was curious about just the subscription model 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.679 for podcasts in general. It seems to me that the 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:20.199 marketplace has been so ad driven for so long. Do 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:26.359 you sense out there that there is room for subscription? Um, Yes, 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:31.240 I mean I think that, uh, advertising really took off 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.760 in podcasting because some of the earliest advertisers who have 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.040 leaned in to podcasts were direct response, direct to consumer 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.399 type advertisers, and they had such great results that they 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.600 kept spending more and so that the ad side of 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.840 the industry grew very very quickly. Now we see larger 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.760 brands getting into it naturally because the industry is starting 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.640 to scale more and offer more sophistication. So I think 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.240 the ad side is definitely here. To say. On the 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.359 subscriptions side, I think it's a little bit of a 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.639 chicken and egg where where the industry had to develop 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.200 to a certain point, a certain level of high quality content, 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.200 a certain level of known and popular influencers and hosts 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.880 producing the content to really start to move the wheels 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.520 on subscription and around podcasts, because when you don't have 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.280 the quantity and quality of content there, it's hard to 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.679 get consumers to pay unless they just really happen to 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.760 love the particular host or you know, have a passion 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:39.159 point for that particular piece of content. UM But in general, 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.400 I think we're just starting to see the early signals 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.359 of what could make a successful subscription business. UM But 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.480 I think consumers are willing to pay, and we see that, 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:56.080 you know, through Wanndery Plus, through Spotify, now through Apple, 0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:00.760 and of course through other membership programs like Time. We 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.679 also see that in the streaming TV space as well, 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:06.800 you know we we we see it with players like 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.480 you know, Netflix, and and and and Hulu and and 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.680 and certainly are our our prime video service as well. 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.359 So I think consumers are getting comfortable with subscriptions for 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:24.359 this type of content. So, um, we'll see how it evolves. Yeah, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.440 it will be definitely interesting to see the evolution here. Jen, 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.280 I want to thank you for taking the time out 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.560 and walking us through what sounds like a very ambitious expansion. Andrew, 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:40.040 thank you so much for the time today. Will be 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:49.080 back in just a minute. Now that you've heard from 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.200 Jen Sergeant, let's move on to another executive who knows 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:57.160 the podcast business well, Odyssey chief Digital Officer j D Crowley. 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.440 I spoke with him on September nineteenth, I d s 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:05.439 Entertainment and Technology Summit. Thank you for joining us, j D. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:07.800 Who you know? I got first got to know you 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.639 when you're at CBS Digital. How did you get you know, 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.240 how did you get into the radio business? You know, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.160 describe the evolution? Great question, Thanks Andy and always good 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.440 to see you. Um. So yeah, I was advice common 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.520 then CBS for a long time on the TV side 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.159 and learning how linear media becomes digitized and transforms distribution, 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.320 watched all my friends go through it in print. You 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.360 all have done a great job of of growing your business. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.800 Learned a lot in TV, and about five years ago 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.119 I said, you know, one of the traditional media that 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.000 has not yet been really disrupted or digitized his audio, 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.960 and it seems like there's an opportunity. It also seems 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.320 like there's probably a playbook that we've learned and if 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.959 we could just run that playbook in audio. And at 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.120 the time, going to a radio company, um, I felt 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.720 like the incumbents actually had a shot because there wasn't 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.160 massive number of disruptors coming in, and so took ad 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.600 leap when when at then at the time it was 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.880 inter Com bought CBS Radio and came into the company 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.600 then and since then, we've acquired podcast studios, We've built 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.760 out a diverse digital business in our streaming and direct 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.760 consumer business. We've rebranded the company as Odyssey, and UH 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.399 entered the sports betting space. It's been a really run, 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.600 a fun ride over the last several years of diversification. 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.879 What was the rebranding about. Well, at the time, we 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.080 had a brand called Tercom that nobody knew. We had 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.359 some assets that had CBS, and when you take a 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:30.960 step back and you actually look at the company that 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.080 is now Odyssey, Uh, it's interesting. We actually owned the 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.680 first commercial radio station in the United States, KATIEK and Pittsburgh, 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.000 which was started I guess in some form or another. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.080 We've been in the audio business for a century, really 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.679 sort of pioneers in commercial audio. And you have that 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.080 radio business, the first sports radio station ever created in 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:52.000 w f AN in New York. We have a number 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.440 of firsts in different formats. Obviously the podcast business which 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.280 is growing quickly, and we've we've had some sort of 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.199 pioneering innovation there, a little bit of innovation in the 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.280 technology side in the last year or two. And so 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.800 this business name called Intercom didn't really fit the portfolio 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:08.960 of assets and the amount of content we created in 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.960 the way consumers and advertisers really knew us. So we 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:13.600 felt like we we needed to really come out as 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.040 a new brand, as a new name something that says 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:21.000 to the market, were audacious, we're apologetically audio um and 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.200 really represents the breadth of content and creators that we 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.840 have on platform. So spend some time doing some research, 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:27.760 worked with some of our friends on the buy side, 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.359 as well and came out with Odyssey uh In. So 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:32.840 it's only been about a year and a half and 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.760 it's been well received by consumers and advertisers alike, very 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.280 proud of it. What would you say, you're sort of 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.919 the points of distinction in the marketplace that you're in, 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.000 because obviously there's there's other companies as competitors. What are 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.960 you doing righter than them? Well, look, there's really four 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.600 scale players in audio. There's Spotify Series x M which 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.720 on Pandora as well, and and Stitcher. There's iHeart, and 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:56.560 there's Odyssey, and the four of us sort of have 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.800 complementary businesses. What sets Odyssey apart, and it's front beyond 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.600 the fact that we reached two hundred million Americans between radio, 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.840 podcasting and digital. What sets us apart is our real 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.320 DNA in spoken word audio. If you look at audio consumption, generally, 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.320 audio captures almost one in three of every media minutes 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.959 in the United States among adults, it's a massive numbers, 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.040 well over four hours a day of media consumption on average. 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.760 And about that is music. Well, none of the four 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:26.240 of us actually own a music publishing catalogue or or 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.520 a label, right, so we don't own that content. Um 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:30.719 and spoken word. There's there's a lot of ad networks 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:34.200 and rep firms. What's unique about Odyssey is about our 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.200 revenues actually are derived from content we own and produce, 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.120 and that's unique amongst our competitive set. And it's given 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.159 us a lot of permission to enter things like podcasting, 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.080 to enter things like our our new Betquel sports betting network, 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.480 and to enter other areas. And spoken word also creates 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.919 connections and daily habits with listeners and with advertisers. Um, 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:55.040 we love the music business. We do really well in it. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:57.520 But that spoken word and that ability to create our 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:00.560 own content, own studios and own our own destiny, I 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.320 think is what sets us apart. So you know, when 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.359 you lay it all out there, audios booming, you guys 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.800 are well diversified. But to hit the elephant in the 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:12.800 room for a second, your stock got hammered this year. 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.800 It did. What what is Wall Street not getting? Because 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:17.679 when I listened to it, it sounds like you know 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:21.840 nothing but upside great, you should be an analyst. So look, 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.879 if you go back to before COVID, we had just 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.639 finished acquiring two podcast studios, Pineapple Street Studios and Cadence 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.760 thirteen to the pre eminent jewels in the podcast space. 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.720 We were just building out our direct consumer streaming service. 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:37.919 Ratings were on a rise, reach was great in radio, 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:41.280 Advertisers were starting to work at things like programmatic audio, 0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:43.760 and we were beginning to build on platform pipes. And 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:46.680 then of course the world stopped. The market went crazy. 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.359 Everybody went down, including us, and we all went into 0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:52.000 triage mode of course, right, and we were at the 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:55.920 very beginning stages of our digital transformation, our direct consumer transformation, 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:57.919 and so as we came out of the pandemic and 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.560 started to show growth, and then of course the economic 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.080 uncertainty earlier this year hit as well. So every media 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:06.000 company is down. You know. Double digits were no exception 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:08.480 to that, and of course, starting from a smaller based 0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:10.480 post covid sort of puts us down where we are. 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.680 That said, we still believe in our strategy. We believe 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:16.240 our assets, as you said are are, we believe very 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:19.040 differentiated and powerful. And as we come out of this 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:22.280 period of disruption, as our numbers start to grow, and 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:24.800 as we really show the street proof and I think 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:27.720 that's the key right growth, businesses have been have turned 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:29.560 into show me stories. This year. Right, they're not really 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:31.080 in vogue as they have been. And so as our 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:33.879 growth business comes out, as our spot business in linear 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:36.600 radio begins to also recover, we think we'll get paid 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:39.000 for that. So I look at this as a momentary disruption. 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.479 We'll get through it, as will every other media company 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:43.399 in the space, and we'll begin to get paid and 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.800 recognize as we put points on the board. You know, 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:48.880 I can't help but wonder, given that you guys are 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.760 in linear radio, whether there might be some stigma attached 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:54.760 to that, And if I could ask our friends in 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:57.320 the back to pull up slide too. I want to 0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:00.679 share we did at Variety Intelligence Form we did a 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:05.040 survey getting people's attitudes about radio. And what was interesting, 0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:08.160 as you can see on the chart here, is that 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:13.040 there are people clearly still value radio, but just as 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:18.160 many people are finding podcasting as a replacement, they prefer 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:23.520 streaming music whatnot. So make the case for linear radio? 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.520 Is this still something that has growth in it? Yes? 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:29.439 So it's interesting when you look at perceptions and you 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.200 look at data, many times they get dislocated, particularly in 0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:34.520 a business that's been around for a hundred years, like 0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:37.560 the radio business. Um as I said earlier, one in 0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:40.280 three media minutes are spent with audio, and actually the 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:43.560 vast majority of those are still spent in AD supported audio, 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:46.919 and of those the majority are with radio. Of all 0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:49.439 AD supported minutes in a car are with linear radio. 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:52.440 But out of that one third of media time, only 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.760 nine of media dollars, of advertiser dollars actually get spent 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:59.440 in audio, generally radio, podcast, streaming, etcetera. And so do 0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:01.200 you remember so of years ago Mary Meeker would do 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:04.600 her slide decks um still does obviously and comes out 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:07.439 and there's this mobile gap, right, there's mobile consumption up 0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:10.160 here and mobile monetization is down here, and she looks 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:11.719 at that as an area of opportunity. And we all 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:14.439 talked about that mobile monetization gap. I think we and 0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:16.840 our peers in the audio space look at that thirty 0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:19.160 one percent of time spent and nine percent of ad 0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:20.920 spend and say, we're kind of where mobile was a 0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:24.160 few years ago. So there's this rediscovery of audio going on. 0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:28.040 Audio consumption is growing, Audio reach radio reaches the number 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:31.520 one reach media in the United States. Over of Americans 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.440 listened to broadcast radio on a regular basis. But you're 0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:36.480 right there is a perception gap. You know what's going 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:38.639 to change that though, And I think what closes that 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:41.159 delta between that nine percent of spending and thirty one 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:44.960 percent of time spent is media buyers habits changing, right, 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:47.600 like like video before it, and like other forms of 0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:51.320 media on platform buying, unified platform buying is really changing 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:54.240 in the buying industry, and programmatic audio is still very 0:27:54.240 --> 0:27:56.840 small as a relative share of total spend, but it's 0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:59.440 growing rapidly, and we know the playbook and video is 0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:01.240 exactly what is going to happen in audio. And so 0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:04.040 as advertisers begin to value impressions that they can't get 0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:06.920 in broadcast TV by the way, my my former stomping 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:10.400 ground and are harder to find at least good, qualified, quality, 0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:13.840 brand safe impressions in other forms of digital media, radio 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:17.280 and podcasting and streaming altogether become a really great asset. 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:19.840 So I can make the case for linear radio because 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:22.120 of the consumption, but the case really should be made 0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:25.680 for audio more generally, and for how linear and streaming targeted, 0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:28.920 digital and podcasting, host read and programmatic, how those work 0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:32.680 together for advertisers and from a consumer perspective, as you said, 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.159 the when you come outside, particularly of a city like 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:39.000 New York where where I live. UM, consumers love their 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:42.760 local radio station, they love their local personalities. They're starting 0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:44.920 to get them more on digital devices though, and streaming 0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:48.760 radio is growing actually faster than podcasting today. Interesting well, 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:50.680 as you can see from the data we've got up now, 0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:53.040 and by the way, take advantage of that discount code 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:57.960 for Variety Intelligence platform. UM, it does show that digital 0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:02.360 is growing. So now that we've discussed the linear slice 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:07.600 of this, and we'll get to podcasts streaming radio. Personally, 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:10.280 I've I don't think I've ever even streamed radio. It's 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.960 either that linear podcast. What am I not getting about 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:16.840 this business? Sure, so it's still very early days in 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:18.920 radio going. We'll call it over the top for all 0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:21.080 my friends in the TV business, same kind of idea 0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:24.760 or or director consumers. So our Odyssey platform, of course, 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:27.320 I Hearts I Heart app is no different than a 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:30.480 Disney Plus or an HBO Max or Paramount Plus, except 0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:34.200 that they are right now predominantly AD supported. And when 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:36.280 you look at the data, consumers you're right have not 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.360 spent as much time streaming radio because they're very satisfied 0:29:39.400 --> 0:29:41.320 with that. I get in my car, I turn it on, 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:43.640 or I get you know, into the office and I 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:46.000 turn on the radio. People did still have radios and 0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.400 offices before COVID, and they love it. It works, It 0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:50.360 does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's really easy. 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:53.560 The listening experience is great, easy to go. So we've 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:56.440 started solving problems with streaming and radio listeners in the 0:29:56.480 --> 0:29:59.520 same way. TV has um our streaming product, which actually 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:02.160 has a number of patents, and interactivity is a lot 0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:04.360 like how YouTube TV's interface works. As a v M 0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:06.959 v p D. You can rewind live radio, you can 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:09.000 go back and play shows from earlier in the day, 0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:11.520 all based in the clouds. Were now adding data where 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:13.240 if you love this morning show, I'm a Boomer and 0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:15.520 Carton listener, or a Boomer and Geo listener rather in 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:17.520 New York, I can go back and find exactly what 0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:19.120 they talked about in the morning. I can see they 0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:21.560 talked about the jets imploding. Hit that button and it 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:23.520 goes right to their right there to that segment. So 0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:26.320 we're doing those kinds of things to make radio streaming 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:28.760 more appealing to customers who want to get it on 0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:31.760 more digital devices. You also have smart speakers. Smart speakers 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:34.040 have been a great boon. Radios in the homes, it's 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:36.560 no secret have declined, but they've actually just been replaced 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:39.080 by smart speakers, and it's really easy to say play 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:41.920 K rock or play k and x UM and so 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:44.320 those are those are driving growth. And then as people 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.600 get back to work, we're actually seeing desktop listening increase. 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:49.000 People like listening to the radio during the day because 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:53.520 it's curated, it's handcrafted, it's a companion tool, there's personalities there, 0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:55.920 and so we're gonna do more on the streaming side 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:59.080 to do things like change the ad experience. Our streams 0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:00.880 don't need to be measured Nielsen in the same way 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:02.360 linear does. They don't need to be bought in the 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:05.120 same way. So we can do things like interactivity at 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:08.400 experience and then again bringing our contents of people on 0:31:08.480 --> 0:31:10.840 demand whenever they want it. UM is something radio has 0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:14.440 not historically invested in up until the last few years. UM. Lastly, 0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:16.720 I would say that data point I referenced earlier, so 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:20.120 podcast listening captures about six percent of all listening time 0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:22.720 in the US. Streaming radio is now up to about 0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:25.920 five and as I said earlier, it's growing faster than podcasting. 0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:29.560 So we see a world where consumers will say streaming, radio, podcasting, 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.320 it's all the same thing. I like my personalities, I 0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:34.240 like the companionship, and I want to get it on 0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:36.440 my phone or my laptop, or my smart speaker or 0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:38.680 the speaker in my toaster. Someday it doesn't matter to 0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.200 us wherever you get it. Um audio kind of engages 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:42.680 in a different way, and that's that's why I think 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:45.520 we'll see growth in the next several years. Well before 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.480 we dig in on the podcast side, and there's a 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.360 lot to dig into their you mentioned COVID, and I 0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:53.400 wanted to get a sense from you of how, if 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:58.800 at all, that disruption, that multi year disruption changed audio habits, 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.640 whether for the entire in the story you're just your company. Well, 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:03.320 to show you how big linear radio is as a 0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:07.280 share of time. All audio time actually took a big 0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:09.760 decline during COVID. There was a trough. We have a 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.000 survey called chair of Ear, which is measured quarterly and 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:14.719 goes back to and if you look at it from 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:17.520 things were steady and then as we headed into COVID, 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:19.840 you say it's really big v trough. Well, the good 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:21.720 news is as of second quarter of this year, we're 0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:24.920 back to those levels. That's due to the growth in linear. 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:26.760 It's also actually due to the growth in streaming and 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:30.680 just do the growth in podcasting UM and so you know, 0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:32.880 I think I think, as I said before, streaming audio 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:34.720 is going to streaming radio will continue to have an 0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:37.760 effect on growth overall. I think that linear consumption reach 0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:40.800 is still where it was pre pandemic UM and I 0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:44.080 actually think that the disruption is beneficial because it drove 0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:46.760 sampling of some of these products like more podcasting, like 0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:49.880 streaming radio. And from an advertiser perspective, look, they just 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.240 want more impressions, they just want more reach, They just 0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.960 want more targeting, and so audio is retooling itself to 0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:58.600 give it to them across platforms. Another macro circumstance I 0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:00.760 want to unpack is look at the state of the 0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.720 economy today. I don't know whether a recession is coming 0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:07.800 or not. Inflation certainly out of control. How is this 0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:10.400 impacting your business? I mean, I don't think it's probably 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:14.920 impacting the listeners, but I got to imagine marketers are 0:33:15.120 --> 0:33:17.360 maybe a little gunshot. Ye if if anything, it actually 0:33:17.440 --> 0:33:20.920 drives listening up right, radio and podcasting are free and 0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:23.320 um I think will continue to be for the foreseeable future. 0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:26.080 And in times of disruption, people want companionship, they want 0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:29.720 personalities they know. So if anything on listening, it's it's 0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:32.600 a net positive. If anything on the marketer side, you 0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:34.880 know as countless studies out there that show that advertisers 0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:37.480 that cut back during COVID during prior recessions see an 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:39.560 impact on sales. And that's why I think you're seeing 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:41.840 this kind of mixed data from a macro perspective in 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:44.480 the market. UM. The thing that radio has always had 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:46.960 going for it, which kind of cuts both ways. It 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:49.440 has always been the lowest CPM media. It's always been 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:51.680 the lowest cost provider. If you're an advertiser and you 0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:53.880 want reach, there's no place to get it like radio. 0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:56.840 TV doesn't deliver it, print doesn't deliver it at a 0:33:56.880 --> 0:33:59.360 home doesn't deliver it, and they always have the lowest 0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:02.160 CPMs in media. Now, as a guy who comes out 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:04.240 of digital and TV, I think that's probably also a 0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:06.240 bad thing. I think we need to raise our rates. 0:34:06.280 --> 0:34:10.000 But that said, for advertisers, you can get really efficient 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:12.319 buys with the reach that radio provides. You what they 0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:14.640 can do now that they couldn't do in two thousand 0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:18.200 eight or during COVID is layer on heavy targeted streaming 0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:21.760 media is layer on podcasting, host endorsement and target advised. 0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:24.440 And so by doing these multi platform buys with folks 0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:28.880 like Odyssey and our scale peers, advertisers can have incredible efficiency, 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.360 lower rates, can get more reach, more frequency out of 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:35.400 their out of their buys. And we've actually seen no 0:34:35.440 --> 0:34:37.000 offense to my TV friends in the room, but we've 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:39.080 seen a lot of advertisers who have had success shifting 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:42.000 portions of their TV budget into radio and into multi 0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:45.719 platform audio and actually delivering significantly greater outcomes for for 0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:49.480 our O. I So I think the recession potential recession, 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.200 if anything, is an opportunity for more advertisers to discover 0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:54.200 that if we can make it easy to buy well, 0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:57.279 you mentioned the advantages is that the low barrier to 0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:02.000 entry is free. Um, but there's been talks as we 0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:07.560 get into the pod case podcast space, subscription podcast maybe 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:10.600 a thing is that something you guys are looking at? Yeah, 0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:13.279 I mean today we are a reach vehicle. We want 0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:15.160 to get our content and our creators. We have a 0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:17.080 ton of creators in our company, as you would imagine 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:20.200 given how much original content. Anytime I say that, or 0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:22.480 anytime I talk about licensing, we have a licensing business 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.479 that is good. We do windowing. But anytime we start 0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:26.319 to talk about that, immediately a creator in the room 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:28.399 will say, but I want as many people to hear 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:30.560 my work as possible, And so that's a part of 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:34.640 our DNA. We understand and supported media. We understand reach 0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:37.160 and scale and distribution. That's not to say that there's 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:39.319 not consumer revenue models that will take hold in our 0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:42.560 streaming business. Maybe in the podcast business, we're experimenting with 0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:45.239 some of those. There's also, just like you all have done, 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:48.480 expanding into events and other types of consumer revenue. So 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:50.239 I think it's a little too early to decide is 0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:52.319 one model or the other. I think podcasting will be 0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:55.319 a diverse set of models, not on like YouTube influencers, 0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:57.960 and there's probably a role for subscription to play in that. 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.200 But today we're most excited about the fact we just 0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:02.440 want to keep growing the pie of what is already 0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:06.279 a massive amount of listeners. So talk about what creators 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:09.160 you have in house there. I mean, there's obviously a 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.279 bunch of different pieces to the podcast puzzle, but let's 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:14.440 go one at a time. Sure, And and you know, 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:17.560 as you said, the barrier to entry is low, except 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:19.799 unless you're you know, very good at doing this, in 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:21.400 which case it can be a little bit higher. But 0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:23.960 the cost relative to TV are still very low. Covid 0:36:24.000 --> 0:36:26.480 actually also helped grow our podcast creating business and our 0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:29.720 studio businesses because people couldn't go to set, it couldn't shoot, 0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:31.520 and so they could stay at home. We can send 0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:33.440 them a great quality of microphone and they could record 0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.680 great shows. And so whether it's a Glennon Doyle who 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:38.840 is a part of our cadence, their teen studio, stephen 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:42.120 A Smith. We have a great partnership with Puck News, 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.640 Punch Hoole, with a number of news businesses. We have 0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:47.520 a great influencer business called Bramble, which actually joint venture 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:49.640 with our friends at U t A. And it's everyone 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:53.760 from Charlie and Dixie, Damelio to Smash to Reten Link, 0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:57.319 Emma Chamberlain. That's a great business for us. Um a 0:36:57.320 --> 0:36:59.400 lot in sports, stephen A Smith and a number of 0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:02.640 other creators there. We even have narrative businesses. John Mitcham, 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:04.440 the historian is a great partner of ours. We have 0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:06.440 an imprint with him. Doc Rivers is a part of 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:08.799 that as well. Um and then we have a big 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:12.120 growing original studio at at Caden's thirteen, so a number 0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:13.920 of shows Gone South and others which have been at 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:15.560 the top of the charts and gotten a lot of 0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:18.600 critical acclaim. And we actually even launched a features business. 0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:21.320 We dot our first one in partnership with Endeavor Content 0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:24.080 and have expanded that business where we're taking scripts which 0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:27.160 are made for feature length films, developing in them and 0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:29.680 producing them as podcasts. First, our first one was with 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:32.880 Kieranan Shipka called treat Our second when Ghostwriters was with 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:35.840 Adam Scott and Kate Mara, and those are ultimately destined 0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:38.719 to become feature films using podcasts not only as a 0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:40.560 way to build audience, but as a way to develop 0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:43.480 i P cheaply or relatively cheaply compared to what a 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:46.760 traditional development window. So that that's our Cadence their teen business, 0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:49.439 and that is a big scale based business. We also 0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:51.839 have a studio called Pineapple Street. Many of you may 0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:54.440 be familiar with them. They do the top companion podcasts, 0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:58.680 did Succession with HBO, UM Winning Time. They've done a 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.719 ton for Netflix, including Don't Look Backs, Companion Show. They 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:04.040 do a lot of work for brands like Nike and Google, 0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:06.320 but they also create some of the biggest sort of 0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:10.160 chart topping podcasts When to Change, They did Missing which 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:12.600 Richard Simmons way back, and they have a number of 0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:14.880 hits out this year. So they are a high quality 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:18.000 boutique studio. And and they actually have a slate deal 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:20.279 with Amazon, one of the first slate deals I've seen 0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:23.480 in podcasting for partnership for four shows, and I'm sure 0:38:23.520 --> 0:38:25.839 we'll do more there, So that's a great business for us. 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:28.600 And then and then you know, remember we also on 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:33.760 the radio side have um let's say, thousand talent across 0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.600 the company, across the top fifty markets in the US 0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:39.080 UM and so we're creating a ton of content. They're 0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:41.960 both local engagement as well as in sports. We launched 0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:45.200 a new studio last year called Sports. In its first year, 0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:47.960 it now has over a hundred shows covering all NFL teams, 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.239 NBA teams, MLB teams, And we've got writers and our 0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:54.520 talent and former players who are hosting podcast targeted directly 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:57.759 at those fan bases. It's growing like crazy. So you know, 0:38:57.880 --> 0:39:01.200 podcasting today is about creating content, resonates with listeners and 0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:03.600 then holding on as it goes so fast and scales 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.280 so fast. It's a lot like the early days of YouTube. 0:39:06.440 --> 0:39:09.360 Collaborations are big, word of mouth is really big. But 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:11.080 at the end of the day, it comes down to 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:13.759 give an intimate relationship with a listener. As you know, 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:17.080 strictly business, you have your your earbuds in their gas plug. 0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.319 They're walking around the streets of Manhattan, are driving here 0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:22.760 in their car in l a or or on the train, 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.600 or at home doing dishes at night. That's me um, 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:28.640 And so you're inside their earbuds and there is no 0:39:28.800 --> 0:39:31.319 more intimate type of media than that. And if you 0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:34.720 can tap into that intimacy and relationship with an audience, um, 0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:36.719 you're gonna have a million down liards before you know it. 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:39.840 So that that's our podcast business on the studio side, 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:41.920 I should say, on the advertiser side, we also have 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:44.840 a platform called Podcorn. Podcorn has it's sort of the 0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:48.840 midtail business, the seventy creators. It's unique. No other platform 0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:50.960 has that kind of scale. And this is great if 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:52.480 you're a brand that wants to come in and say, 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.000 I want to find a thousand shows that have really 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:59.440 niche but powerful, deep audiences in let's call it road cycling. 0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:01.799 And so with podcorn you can come in as an advertiser. 0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:04.080 You can find these thousand shows in road cycling, they've 0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:06.960 got real niche audiences, and you can very easily buy 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:10.479 a host red personal endorsement at across all thousand shows 0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:12.600 with the bush of one button. So that's a great platform. 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:13.919 We bought it about a year and a half ago. 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:17.799 It's scaling like crazy. Great co founders, Um, we're good 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:19.799 friends of the family and and so we believe they're 0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:22.440 that platform that was also allowing our team to go 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:24.799 in and find creators that would have never otherwise been 0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:28.719 discovered and then potentially offer them deals for radio, for podcasts, etcetera. 0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:32.120 So that business is a huge, multidimensional business. But it's 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:35.000 got a great flywall flywell to it. Yeah, I mean 0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:39.560 there is a lot there and it makes me wonder ballpark, 0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:43.799 you know, in terms of podcast digital linear in terms 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:47.600 of revenue contribution, what is that mixed shift looking like? Well, 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:51.120 so before the pandemic in en are digital revenues represented 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.520 about nine pcent of our total company revenues, and it 0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:55.799 probably won't surprise you today that we are nearly a 0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:58.400 quarter digital when it comes to revenue mix, and obviously 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.040 that digital is growing and continue to grow double digits. 0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:03.360 It's also a nice diverse business. As you mentioned, we 0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:06.319 have our streaming business with our podcast business, and we 0:41:06.360 --> 0:41:08.880 asked we actually also have a digital agency business that 0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:12.640 local advertisers, the five thousand of them can help activate 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:16.960 their search campaigns. They're connected TV campaigns, their email campaigns, 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:20.040 and each of those businesses um are are roughly about 0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:22.200 the same in terms of size and focus. And then 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:25.000 during the pandemic, we entered the sports betting business, which 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:27.399 has been taking off. Of course, we bought an app 0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:30.200 called back Quel for that, which is like a it's 0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:32.600 a subscription business, sort of like a Bloomberg terminal for betting. 0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:34.960 If you want to know what has the most profitable 0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.839 outcome for tonight's bets, Beq will tell you. But why 0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:39.920 we bought it is we turned it into a content 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:43.360 marketing business. We created a Baqel network, the leading sports 0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:45.239 betting podcast in the US, and so that's what we 0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:46.720 know how to do. We know how to make content 0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:49.200 and any space we enter, like a sports betting space. 0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:51.200 We're gonna take something that has data and turn it 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:54.200 into content and turn it into big audiences. Those four 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:57.120 businesses are our digital business. You know, there's great adjacent 0:41:57.120 --> 0:41:59.759 season synergies between them, and you could think about other 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:02.280 of adjacencies to those businesses that we might be interested 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:04.680 in the future. Well, if there's one recurring theme here, 0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:08.000 it's sports. I mean that seems to be kind of 0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:11.359 the specialty for your company, and sports betting I would 0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:14.280 imagine is really going to supercharge that. That's right. Looks 0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:16.760 we are by far and away the number one sports 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:19.560 audio company in the United States, both in radio and 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:23.000 in and an audio more generally, also very deep in news. 0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:26.399 Those two together contribute to that market share in spoken word. 0:42:26.480 --> 0:42:28.319 And you know, you gotta know how to do this 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.400 kind of content. It's really hard to open up. I'm 0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:33.400 a huge sports fan. You and I sit down and 0:42:33.440 --> 0:42:35.360 record a sports podcast. I don't think anybody in this 0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:37.120 room is gonna listen to it, probably more because of 0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:39.279 me than you, So you gotta really know what you're doing. 0:42:39.280 --> 0:42:41.760 You gotta know how to engage an audience. Talking about 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:44.520 sports is about building characters amongst folks in the show. 0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:48.400 It's about really tapping into storylines, knowing when great is 0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:51.280 great and when not great is also great, and understanding 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:54.400 how to play that role engaging fans. So there's a 0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:56.480 real competency that has to be built, and I think 0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:59.360 that's why, whether it's sports podcasting, whether it's sports betting, 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:01.640 that E n A in sports has allowed us to 0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:05.120 really quickly enter and scale in those markets. I mean, 0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:07.800 if there's any obstacle in the podcast business, and I 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:10.120 think you were kind of alluding to this, it's discovery. 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:14.040 There's just so much out there, So how are you 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.600 able to take care of what's underneath the Odyssey umbrella 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:22.200 and make sure that it's really maximizing its audience potential. Look, 0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:24.480 we used to say podcasting was an eight twenty business 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:26.360 where eight percent of the dollars an audience went to 0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:28.480 percent of the shows. I would say now it's probably 0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:33.000 business because there are just so many shows. Anyone, uh, 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:35.480 including our new sports podcast we're gonna launch next week, 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:37.840 could launch a podcast. It's very easy to do, and 0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:40.840 so that means you got over three million podcasts, probably 0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:44.160 four million by the time we're done here. Um, This 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:46.280 is where the power of a network and the power 0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:48.960 of a group of shows together really matters, whether it's 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:51.320 us or some of our our peers. Um. You know, 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:54.600 our podcast business has reaches about fifty million people globally 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:57.320 every month, will over thirty million in the US, almost 0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:00.120 one in three podcast listeners. And so what we do is, 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.680 just like other kinds of media, we let the shows 0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:05.440 talk to each other, we cross pollinate, host we promote 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:07.960 one show from another. The best way to discover podcasts 0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:11.200 is no surprise on another podcast. So whether it's promoting 0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:14.120 on our Podcorn network, whether it's promoting within our own shows, 0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:16.879 that's really the best way to discovery. But I will 0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:19.480 tell you owning a radio business that reaches a couple 0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:22.120 hundred Americans isn't bad either, And so that allows us 0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:24.440 to not just run ads. But when we did Gone South, 0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:26.440 which was a true crime story in New Orleans, we 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.200 were able to have the reporter call into one of 0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:30.480 our New Orleans stations. They spent an hour on the 0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:32.759 phone talking about this case, and the numbers in New 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:35.520 Orleans the next day threw off the charts. So, you know, 0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:38.120 having that radio business, the streaming business, and of course 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:40.880 that podcast network today. That's really the best way to 0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:44.680 get discovery, even more so than leaning on promoted post 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:46.760 on the platforms or charts or things of that nature. 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.840 But you're also in live events. To some we are 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:53.040 hearing how material is that. Look, it's a really important 0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:56.480 part of our overall portfolio. We can survive. Coming up 0:44:56.560 --> 0:44:59.000 here next month at the Hollywood Bawl, we just announced 0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:02.200 the lineup. We have Odyssey Beach Fest in Florida coming up. 0:45:02.360 --> 0:45:04.720 Stars and Strings, which is a country event in Florida. 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:07.440 We do these great multi artist events. We also do 0:45:07.480 --> 0:45:09.759 live events in sports, we do coach talks and things 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:12.200 of that nature. UM, and we've done other sort of 0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:14.600 civic engagement work, which is a really important part of 0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:16.879 our company. We've done that in our news business, will 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:19.600 do that leaning into the election. You know, radio and 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.279 events have always worked very well together because people when 0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.399 somebody in the morning radio show or in your drive 0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:26.279 home says you gotta check this out, you gotta come 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:28.520 to this event, you gotta come touch this artist or 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:31.040 this athlete or this coach or learn from this influence 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.280 or um, people really lean into that, you know, virtual events. 0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:35.600 On the music side, we were talking about have been 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:38.200 a little bit tricky, but I will say Glenn and Doyle, 0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:41.200 one of our podcast host who has an amazingly engaged community, 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:43.560 did a virtual event for us and we had I 0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:46.520 think fifty thou people can currently live streaming this event 0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:49.120 who were part of her community. That doesn't just happen 0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:52.040 in live events. So again, I think that connection of 0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:55.879 talent UH and the ability to activate local audiences who 0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:58.080 are the ones going to these events um is a 0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:01.840 real differentiator for us and and for the industry generally. Well, 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:04.920 I mean, as this conversation proves, there's a lot of 0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:08.359 pieces in the Odyssey puzzle, but you've done a good 0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:10.839 job of explaining how it all comes together for this 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:13.399 broader picture. Thanks for taking the time to talk to you, Judy, 0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:21.600 Thank you appreciate it. Always good to see you. This 0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:24.759 has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next 0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:28.560 week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media movers 0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:30.840 and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to the 0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:34.160 podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review in 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:36.919 Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.