1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 2 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: Amazon made a surprise announcement this week that they'll be 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: expanding the audio content that comes with their popular Prime service. 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: So we've got Jen Sergeant, CEO of Amazon subsidiary Wondering, 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: to walk us through the strategy and then stick around 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: for a special bonus second interview in this episode with 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: j D. Crowley, chief Digital Officer at Odyssey. Podcast is 10 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: a big piece of this radio company as it struggles 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: to sell Wall Street on its vision for the future. 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: But first, Jen Sergeant. Right after this, we are back 13 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: with Wondering CEO, Jen Sergeant. Good to talk to you, Jen. Hi, Andrew, 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: thanks for having me my pleasure. So first, let's just 15 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: walk through what exactly Amazon Prime is bringing to the 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: table on the podcast front. What had it done before 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: and what is it moving to now. Yes, so, um 18 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: before podcasts were available on Amazon Music, and Amazon Music 19 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: is broken down into three tiers. We have an ad 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: supported free tier, we have the Prime tier, which is 21 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: a benefit for our Prime members, and we have Amazon 22 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Music unlimited UM. But now Prime members can experience the 23 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: most ad free top podcasts from leading publishers like CNN 24 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: and PRUM, The New York Times, Barstool, UH, Slate, ESPNUM, 25 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: along with our Wondering shows like Dr Deaf and Business 26 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: Wars and smart Lists and Morbid, and they can experience 27 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: them all add free UH. And it's for Prime members 28 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: at no additional cost. So what was the rationale here? 29 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: I mean, did you guys have data showing that Prime 30 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: members wanted this kind of thing. Well, previously, we really 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: haven't turned on a strong audio benefit for Prime members. 32 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: We haven't made that a priority to let them know 33 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: about it and to lean into UM some of the 34 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: things that that we were already offering through the Amazon 35 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: Music Service. So this was an opportunity to add more 36 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: value to our customers, and that's something we're always looking 37 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: to do. But I'll also say that UM podcasts are 38 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: a fairly new endeavor for Amazon Music. We we launched 39 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: podcasts in the service about two years ago, Wondering was 40 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: acquired INE and UM. We have been building our capabilities 41 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: in the pod has space, and so now seemed like 42 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: the right time to really open this up and and 43 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: and and turn on these extra benefits for our prime members. 44 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: So you mentioned you know this started two years ago. 45 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: Obviously you started with Wondering, which was not always an 46 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: Amazon subsidiary. How you know sort of trace back with 47 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: us the Wondering arc and how it sort of came 48 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: under the Amazon umbrella. Sure. UM, So I joined Wondering 49 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: in summer, and at that time we were a fairly 50 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: early stage BC backed company UM, and we were finding 51 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: our legs in audio storytelling. UM. The founder of the 52 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: company had come from Hollywood and and and many of 53 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: the exacts, including myself, have worked in or around entertainment 54 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: and digital media and UH we saw an opportunity to 55 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: bring Hollywood styles storytelling to audio. That was kind of 56 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: the genesis of Wondering. And as we started to build 57 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: our portfolio of original shows and work into new formats 58 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: and UM new genres, UM, we started to gain more success. 59 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: UM Wondering has always been UH supported by by ads 60 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: by licensing and UM. With the launch of some of 61 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: our early successes Dirty John and Dr Death, we started 62 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: to get into TV shows UM and so those are 63 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: kind of the three lines of our business. We continue 64 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: to grow the business and I think um somewhere in 65 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: twenty uh Amazon, like like many large media companies and 66 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: tech companies, we're looking at additional ways to engage with 67 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: their their their customer bases. And podcasts while arguably innascent 68 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: industry really shows um incredible potential UM in my opinion, 69 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, podcast or for everyone, and um, there's very 70 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: little friction for consumers from a technical perspective to downloading 71 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: and enjoying podcasts. So it seems like a natural place 72 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: and extension that Amazon would go given their already uh 73 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: strong footprint in music and and audiobooks. Podcasts were just 74 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: a natural extension of that. So you know, we obviously 75 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, started conversations and it turned out to be 76 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: a great partnership which led to a marriage, you know 77 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: how these things go, um and and so yeah, we've 78 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: been to the family for a year and a half. 79 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: So now that I've got the backstory on Won Dree, 80 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: I'm just curious about sort of the ad supported side 81 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: of this business versus subscription. I mean, to some degree, 82 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: I wonder whether doesn't doesn't having an ad free subscription 83 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: product possibly cannibalize uh you know, what could be done. 84 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: On the other side, we don't think of it that way. 85 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean, again, I mentioned podcasts are really nascent. We're 86 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: trying to expand the pie. We're trying to grow this. 87 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: We're trying to get more consumers into the podcast landscape. 88 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: And that means a number of things. It's it's it 89 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: means different distribution strategies. It also means just meeting consumers 90 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: where they are, um through through the mediums they're already consuming. 91 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: And so yes, part of our goal, um, and the 92 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: driver of launching this now is to really provide more 93 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: value to Prime members and and with that, we feel 94 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: that ad free and our customers have told us that 95 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: ad free is a really important benefit for them when 96 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: it comes to podcasts. So so that of course was 97 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: our front and center you know goal. UM. But we 98 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: want to reach a broader set of consumers than than 99 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: Prime members, and so that means going wide. And the 100 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: business model there is advertising, and um, you know, advertising 101 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: continues to be a really important part of wonderous business model. 102 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: It's something we're actively growing, it's something that's important to 103 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: Amazon and we think we can balance the two. UM. 104 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: So we don't really think about it as cannibalization. It's 105 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: more about expanding the pie and really getting more consumers 106 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: into this medium. So it's not as if the ad 107 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: business is reaching some sort of ceiling here. Oh not 108 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: at all, UM, not at all, got it. And in 109 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: terms of the you know, there's other ad free subscription 110 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: versions of Amazon podcast. There's one to ree plus, Apple 111 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: I think has a version. I know they're not exactly 112 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: the same offering. But again that cannibalization question, you know, 113 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: how do you not cannibalize one to replus or Apple? Yeah, 114 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: I again, we really don't think about it as cannibalization 115 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: so much as UM There is a differentiation between the 116 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: services UM one. Re Plus is a pure play podcast player, 117 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: whereas Amazon Music is an all encompassing UM audio experience. 118 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: It's music, it's podcasts, it's really an entertainment service that 119 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: includes a lot of different engaging features like live streaming 120 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: and merch. UM. So, yes, shows and content on Wandering 121 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: Plus will still be ad free, but the consumer intent 122 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: is a little different. We're really super serving those those 123 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: passionate UM podcast listeners who listen to you know, hours 124 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: and hours of podcasts today on Wondering Plus, where our 125 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: Amazon Music benefit is really servicing a broad audience of 126 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: prime members UM, who may have already discovered podcasts or 127 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: maybe brand new to podcasts. So UM, we think those 128 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: on ramps are very different. UM. And then the extension 129 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: on Apple UM is the same thing that goes back 130 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: to kind of meeting consumers where they are. UM. Some 131 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: consumers are not prime members, and so we want to 132 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: find them where they're listening versus if they are a 133 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: prime member. We want to deliver UM that value and 134 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: keep increasing the value for their membership. Jenna wanted to 135 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: continue on the content front, Uh, particularly with the exclusives. 136 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: I mean, uh, talk about what what you've got at 137 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: this point, because I know part of this is new 138 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: and kind of a name people recognize. Yeah. Yeah, So 139 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: in terms of exclusive content, Well, how much time do 140 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: you have, Andrew, there there's a lot here. UM. Let 141 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: me go through some of the the the the shows 142 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: that or the names that um your listeners might might recognize. 143 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: So UM, first, we're really excited about a partnership that 144 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: we did with UM Mr ball In UM. Uh he 145 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: goes by Mr ball In. His name is John Allen 146 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: UM and his company is Balling Studios. But John Allen, 147 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: through his Mr Balling podcast is one of the largest 148 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: podcasters out there. UM. He was formerly a Navy seal 149 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: UH turned storyteller. He's actually an amazing storytell a or 150 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: he comes from a long line of storytellers. UM and 151 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: John Uh you know, got his start on on TikTok 152 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: and then launched on YouTube and and just launched his 153 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: podcast this February, and it has really been UM quite 154 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: a sensation, growing month over month and UM. He shares 155 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: stories of the strange, dark and mysterious and really has 156 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: cultivated UM a large and growing audience. So we have 157 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: partner with him to bring Mr Balin exclusive to Amazon Music, 158 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: and we're working with him to UM develop new formats 159 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: as well for local audiences. So that's one of the 160 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: shows that that that fans can expect to find next week. UM. 161 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: You mentioned local audiences. You're talking about the international versions. UM, 162 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: we're looking at new formats UM that could apply to yes, 163 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: local audiences as well. Right, I just want to clarify 164 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: for the listener you me international markets when you say local. Yes, 165 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: Sorry about that, Yes, UM uh countries outside of the US, UM, 166 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: and we're actively expanding to local language podcasts in markets 167 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: like Germany, in Japan, and Mexico for example. Got it 168 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: and Uh, Kiki Palmer a big name we know here 169 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Um, what is she going to be doing 170 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: for you guys as an exclusive? Yeah? She has been 171 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: so much fun to work with. So if you're not 172 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: familiar with Kiki, she is really a multi talented creator 173 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: and influencer. Um, she is a musician, she is an actress, 174 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: she is an influencer, and it turns out she's also 175 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: a great influence interviewer. She's, um, just a really curious person. 176 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: Her podcast is called Baby This is Kicky Palmer, and um, 177 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: she is really going to be bringing on guests, um, 178 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: picking a topic each week and taking listeners down a 179 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: rabbit hole with her UM around topics that she's curious 180 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: about and interested in. Her first Um, her first episode 181 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: is actually going to be an interview with Black China 182 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: and the topic is only fans and it's a really 183 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: fun episode. So um, yeah, we're very excited to launch 184 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: this new show with Kiki. So how many exclusive offerings 185 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: are there there? There are quite a bit. Um, there 186 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: are really dozens of them right now on a global basis, 187 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: and we'll be continuing to put more shows into production 188 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: as we get into okay, and I'm also wondering. You know, 189 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: there's obviously a business in terms of monetizing i P 190 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: in other media. Uh, is that part of the strategy 191 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: here in terms of I know not all podcasts fit 192 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: that bill, but I'm curious what you might be doing there. Yeah, 193 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: so I I mentioned earlier. You know, we had some 194 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: early success with our Wondering podcast pre Amazon taking uh 195 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: the i P and turning it into a TV format, 196 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: and we continue to do that really successfully with the 197 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: recent launch of a Weak Crashed with Joe versus Carol, 198 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: with Dr Death, um, the Shrink next Door, and we 199 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: have a robust pipeline of additional podcast to TV adaptations 200 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: coming up. UM. But we also look at other places 201 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 1: in ways that the i P can be developed, UM, 202 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: whether that's merged or consumer product lines, live events and 203 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: experiences for our for our fans, UM or books. Really 204 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: it depends on the podcast. Like you said, not every 205 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: podcast can be adapted to other formats, but we try 206 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: to contemplate that from the beginning, and where there is 207 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: an opportunity, UM, we're taking advantage. And obviously being part 208 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: of Amazon UM has been a huge help as we 209 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: think about expanding and working with other divisions of Amazon 210 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: on some of those initiatives. There's a lot of powerful 211 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: competition out there in the podcast space. UM. You know, 212 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: other platforms have exclusives. I'm curious, is there some sort 213 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: of particular direction you're going in terms of differentiation in 214 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: terms of the mix of the content, anything like that. 215 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: You know, when when I think of it, I don't 216 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: necessarily think of it in terms of our competitors. We 217 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: really try to focus on our listeners and what is 218 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: going to engage them, What is going to UM cause 219 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: them to use their precious time to listen to thirty 220 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: minutes or forty minutes of a podcast, because that's a 221 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: lot more valuable even than their dollar a lot of times. 222 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: So we really try to start with the customer. UM. 223 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: You know, in terms of the direction, just being part 224 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: of Amazon and leveraging Amazon's capabilities, you know, beyond podcasts, 225 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: UM is really I think quite a differentiator for our 226 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: podcasts and for Wondering UM. So we're really focused on 227 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: on how we and best bring that value to prime members. UM. 228 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, we're not We're not UM actually hung up 229 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: on any particular type of strategy. The for for me, 230 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: the industry is very early and we want to see 231 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: how this develops. So we are continuing with ad sales, 232 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: were um leaning into prime members and offering that value, 233 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: were licensing and and UM you know, adapting the I 234 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: P as I mentioned, And we'll see how this industry evolves. 235 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: And I think when we get signals that consumers have 236 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: a preference um for certain models versus others, then you know, 237 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: we'll adjust and adapt. But I think we're staying very 238 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: flexible right now to see what our consumers tell us. 239 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: You know, one particular issue that uh, some certain other 240 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: competitors that I won't name the have faced is content 241 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: regulation or moderation. I'm thinking obviously if Joe Rogan and Spotify, 242 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you guys have a policy in place 243 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: on this, because I think we're Spotify I got in 244 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: trouble as they really didn't. We do have internal policies 245 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: on this. We also try to look at the content 246 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: at at at at the start of the relationship. You know, 247 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: we we we scrutinize the partnerships that that we do, 248 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: particularly for exclusives and originals, UM and so uh we 249 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: we we try to be thoughtful on the front end. 250 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: But yes, we do have internal policies um around this 251 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: to ensure and um, we're constantly iterating and getting feedback 252 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: and uh, you know when we encounter something. We haven't 253 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: had something like a Joe broken. But I think any 254 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: of the services, including us, are susceptible to this happening 255 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: because we have many interview based and talk based shows. UM. 256 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: So it's something that you know, we take very seriously 257 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: and we're continuing to just adapt as as more um, 258 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: as more information comes out, as we learn more about 259 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, what's what's happening, and and we get feedback 260 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: from our listeners. But we do have internal policies to 261 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: make sure that we're keeping an eye on on what's 262 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: going on. I was curious about just the subscription model 263 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: for podcasts in general. It seems to me that the 264 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: marketplace has been so ad driven for so long. Do 265 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: you sense out there that there is room for subscription? Um, Yes, 266 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean I think that, uh, advertising really took off 267 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: in podcasting because some of the earliest advertisers who have 268 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: leaned in to podcasts were direct response, direct to consumer 269 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: type advertisers, and they had such great results that they 270 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: kept spending more and so that the ad side of 271 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: the industry grew very very quickly. Now we see larger 272 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: brands getting into it naturally because the industry is starting 273 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: to scale more and offer more sophistication. So I think 274 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: the ad side is definitely here. To say. On the 275 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: subscriptions side, I think it's a little bit of a 276 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: chicken and egg where where the industry had to develop 277 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: to a certain point, a certain level of high quality content, 278 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: a certain level of known and popular influencers and hosts 279 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: producing the content to really start to move the wheels 280 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: on subscription and around podcasts, because when you don't have 281 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: the quantity and quality of content there, it's hard to 282 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: get consumers to pay unless they just really happen to 283 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: love the particular host or you know, have a passion 284 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: point for that particular piece of content. UM But in general, 285 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: I think we're just starting to see the early signals 286 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: of what could make a successful subscription business. UM But 287 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: I think consumers are willing to pay, and we see that, 288 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, through Wanndery Plus, through Spotify, now through Apple, 289 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: and of course through other membership programs like Time. We 290 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: also see that in the streaming TV space as well, 291 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: you know we we we see it with players like 292 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, Netflix, and and and and Hulu and and 293 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: and certainly are our our prime video service as well. 294 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: So I think consumers are getting comfortable with subscriptions for 295 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: this type of content. So, um, we'll see how it evolves. Yeah, 296 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: it will be definitely interesting to see the evolution here. Jen, 297 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for taking the time out 298 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: and walking us through what sounds like a very ambitious expansion. Andrew, 299 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for the time today. Will be 300 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: back in just a minute. Now that you've heard from 301 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: Jen Sergeant, let's move on to another executive who knows 302 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: the podcast business well, Odyssey chief Digital Officer j D Crowley. 303 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: I spoke with him on September nineteenth, I d s 304 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: Entertainment and Technology Summit. Thank you for joining us, j D. 305 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: Who you know? I got first got to know you 306 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: when you're at CBS Digital. How did you get you know, 307 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: how did you get into the radio business? You know, 308 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: describe the evolution? Great question, Thanks Andy and always good 309 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: to see you. Um. So yeah, I was advice common 310 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: then CBS for a long time on the TV side 311 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: and learning how linear media becomes digitized and transforms distribution, 312 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: watched all my friends go through it in print. You 313 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: all have done a great job of of growing your business. 314 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: Learned a lot in TV, and about five years ago 315 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: I said, you know, one of the traditional media that 316 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: has not yet been really disrupted or digitized his audio, 317 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: and it seems like there's an opportunity. It also seems 318 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: like there's probably a playbook that we've learned and if 319 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 1: we could just run that playbook in audio. And at 320 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: the time, going to a radio company, um, I felt 321 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: like the incumbents actually had a shot because there wasn't 322 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: massive number of disruptors coming in, and so took ad 323 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: leap when when at then at the time it was 324 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: inter Com bought CBS Radio and came into the company 325 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: then and since then, we've acquired podcast studios, We've built 326 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: out a diverse digital business in our streaming and direct 327 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: consumer business. We've rebranded the company as Odyssey, and UH 328 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: entered the sports betting space. It's been a really run, 329 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: a fun ride over the last several years of diversification. 330 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: What was the rebranding about. Well, at the time, we 331 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: had a brand called Tercom that nobody knew. We had 332 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: some assets that had CBS, and when you take a 333 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: step back and you actually look at the company that 334 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: is now Odyssey, Uh, it's interesting. We actually owned the 335 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: first commercial radio station in the United States, KATIEK and Pittsburgh, 336 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: which was started I guess in some form or another. 337 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: We've been in the audio business for a century, really 338 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: sort of pioneers in commercial audio. And you have that 339 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: radio business, the first sports radio station ever created in 340 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: w f AN in New York. We have a number 341 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: of firsts in different formats. Obviously the podcast business which 342 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: is growing quickly, and we've we've had some sort of 343 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: pioneering innovation there, a little bit of innovation in the 344 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: technology side in the last year or two. And so 345 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: this business name called Intercom didn't really fit the portfolio 346 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: of assets and the amount of content we created in 347 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: the way consumers and advertisers really knew us. So we 348 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: felt like we we needed to really come out as 349 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: a new brand, as a new name something that says 350 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: to the market, were audacious, we're apologetically audio um and 351 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: really represents the breadth of content and creators that we 352 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: have on platform. So spend some time doing some research, 353 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: worked with some of our friends on the buy side, 354 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: as well and came out with Odyssey uh In. So 355 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: it's only been about a year and a half and 356 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: it's been well received by consumers and advertisers alike, very 357 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: proud of it. What would you say, you're sort of 358 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: the points of distinction in the marketplace that you're in, 359 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: because obviously there's there's other companies as competitors. What are 360 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: you doing righter than them? Well, look, there's really four 361 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: scale players in audio. There's Spotify Series x M which 362 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: on Pandora as well, and and Stitcher. There's iHeart, and 363 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: there's Odyssey, and the four of us sort of have 364 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: complementary businesses. What sets Odyssey apart, and it's front beyond 365 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: the fact that we reached two hundred million Americans between radio, 366 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: podcasting and digital. What sets us apart is our real 367 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: DNA in spoken word audio. If you look at audio consumption, generally, 368 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: audio captures almost one in three of every media minutes 369 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: in the United States among adults, it's a massive numbers, 370 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: well over four hours a day of media consumption on average. 371 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: And about that is music. Well, none of the four 372 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: of us actually own a music publishing catalogue or or 373 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: a label, right, so we don't own that content. Um 374 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: and spoken word. There's there's a lot of ad networks 375 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: and rep firms. What's unique about Odyssey is about our 376 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: revenues actually are derived from content we own and produce, 377 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: and that's unique amongst our competitive set. And it's given 378 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: us a lot of permission to enter things like podcasting, 379 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: to enter things like our our new Betquel sports betting network, 380 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: and to enter other areas. And spoken word also creates 381 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: connections and daily habits with listeners and with advertisers. Um, 382 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: we love the music business. We do really well in it. 383 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: But that spoken word and that ability to create our 384 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: own content, own studios and own our own destiny, I 385 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: think is what sets us apart. So you know, when 386 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: you lay it all out there, audios booming, you guys 387 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: are well diversified. But to hit the elephant in the 388 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: room for a second, your stock got hammered this year. 389 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: It did. What what is Wall Street not getting? Because 390 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: when I listened to it, it sounds like you know 391 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: nothing but upside great, you should be an analyst. So look, 392 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: if you go back to before COVID, we had just 393 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: finished acquiring two podcast studios, Pineapple Street Studios and Cadence 394 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: thirteen to the pre eminent jewels in the podcast space. 395 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: We were just building out our direct consumer streaming service. 396 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: Ratings were on a rise, reach was great in radio, 397 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: Advertisers were starting to work at things like programmatic audio, 398 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: and we were beginning to build on platform pipes. And 399 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: then of course the world stopped. The market went crazy. 400 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: Everybody went down, including us, and we all went into 401 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: triage mode of course, right, and we were at the 402 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: very beginning stages of our digital transformation, our direct consumer transformation, 403 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: and so as we came out of the pandemic and 404 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: started to show growth, and then of course the economic 405 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: uncertainty earlier this year hit as well. So every media 406 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: company is down. You know. Double digits were no exception 407 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: to that, and of course, starting from a smaller based 408 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: post covid sort of puts us down where we are. 409 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: That said, we still believe in our strategy. We believe 410 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: our assets, as you said are are, we believe very 411 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: differentiated and powerful. And as we come out of this 412 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: period of disruption, as our numbers start to grow, and 413 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: as we really show the street proof and I think 414 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: that's the key right growth, businesses have been have turned 415 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: into show me stories. This year. Right, they're not really 416 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: in vogue as they have been. And so as our 417 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: growth business comes out, as our spot business in linear 418 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: radio begins to also recover, we think we'll get paid 419 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: for that. So I look at this as a momentary disruption. 420 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 1: We'll get through it, as will every other media company 421 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: in the space, and we'll begin to get paid and 422 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: recognize as we put points on the board. You know, 423 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: I can't help but wonder, given that you guys are 424 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: in linear radio, whether there might be some stigma attached 425 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: to that, And if I could ask our friends in 426 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: the back to pull up slide too. I want to 427 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: share we did at Variety Intelligence Form we did a 428 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: survey getting people's attitudes about radio. And what was interesting, 429 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: as you can see on the chart here, is that 430 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: there are people clearly still value radio, but just as 431 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: many people are finding podcasting as a replacement, they prefer 432 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: streaming music whatnot. So make the case for linear radio? 433 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: Is this still something that has growth in it? Yes? 434 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: So it's interesting when you look at perceptions and you 435 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: look at data, many times they get dislocated, particularly in 436 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: a business that's been around for a hundred years, like 437 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: the radio business. Um as I said earlier, one in 438 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: three media minutes are spent with audio, and actually the 439 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: vast majority of those are still spent in AD supported audio, 440 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: and of those the majority are with radio. Of all 441 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: AD supported minutes in a car are with linear radio. 442 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: But out of that one third of media time, only 443 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: nine of media dollars, of advertiser dollars actually get spent 444 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: in audio, generally radio, podcast, streaming, etcetera. And so do 445 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: you remember so of years ago Mary Meeker would do 446 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: her slide decks um still does obviously and comes out 447 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: and there's this mobile gap, right, there's mobile consumption up 448 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: here and mobile monetization is down here, and she looks 449 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,719 Speaker 1: at that as an area of opportunity. And we all 450 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: talked about that mobile monetization gap. I think we and 451 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: our peers in the audio space look at that thirty 452 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: one percent of time spent and nine percent of ad 453 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: spend and say, we're kind of where mobile was a 454 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: few years ago. So there's this rediscovery of audio going on. 455 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: Audio consumption is growing, Audio reach radio reaches the number 456 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: one reach media in the United States. Over of Americans 457 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: listened to broadcast radio on a regular basis. But you're 458 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: right there is a perception gap. You know what's going 459 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: to change that though, And I think what closes that 460 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: delta between that nine percent of spending and thirty one 461 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: percent of time spent is media buyers habits changing, right, 462 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: like like video before it, and like other forms of 463 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: media on platform buying, unified platform buying is really changing 464 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: in the buying industry, and programmatic audio is still very 465 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: small as a relative share of total spend, but it's 466 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: growing rapidly, and we know the playbook and video is 467 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: exactly what is going to happen in audio. And so 468 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: as advertisers begin to value impressions that they can't get 469 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: in broadcast TV by the way, my my former stomping 470 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: ground and are harder to find at least good, qualified, quality, 471 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: brand safe impressions in other forms of digital media, radio 472 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: and podcasting and streaming altogether become a really great asset. 473 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: So I can make the case for linear radio because 474 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: of the consumption, but the case really should be made 475 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: for audio more generally, and for how linear and streaming targeted, 476 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: digital and podcasting, host read and programmatic, how those work 477 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: together for advertisers and from a consumer perspective, as you said, 478 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: the when you come outside, particularly of a city like 479 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: New York where where I live. UM, consumers love their 480 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: local radio station, they love their local personalities. They're starting 481 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: to get them more on digital devices though, and streaming 482 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: radio is growing actually faster than podcasting today. Interesting well, 483 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: as you can see from the data we've got up now, 484 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: and by the way, take advantage of that discount code 485 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: for Variety Intelligence platform. UM, it does show that digital 486 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: is growing. So now that we've discussed the linear slice 487 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: of this, and we'll get to podcasts streaming radio. Personally, 488 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: I've I don't think I've ever even streamed radio. It's 489 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: either that linear podcast. What am I not getting about 490 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: this business? Sure, so it's still very early days in 491 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: radio going. We'll call it over the top for all 492 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: my friends in the TV business, same kind of idea 493 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: or or director consumers. So our Odyssey platform, of course, 494 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: I Hearts I Heart app is no different than a 495 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: Disney Plus or an HBO Max or Paramount Plus, except 496 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: that they are right now predominantly AD supported. And when 497 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: you look at the data, consumers you're right have not 498 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: spent as much time streaming radio because they're very satisfied 499 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: with that. I get in my car, I turn it on, 500 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: or I get you know, into the office and I 501 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: turn on the radio. People did still have radios and 502 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: offices before COVID, and they love it. It works, It 503 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's really easy. 504 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: The listening experience is great, easy to go. So we've 505 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: started solving problems with streaming and radio listeners in the 506 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: same way. TV has um our streaming product, which actually 507 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: has a number of patents, and interactivity is a lot 508 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: like how YouTube TV's interface works. As a v M 509 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 1: v p D. You can rewind live radio, you can 510 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: go back and play shows from earlier in the day, 511 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: all based in the clouds. Were now adding data where 512 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: if you love this morning show, I'm a Boomer and 513 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: Carton listener, or a Boomer and Geo listener rather in 514 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: New York, I can go back and find exactly what 515 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: they talked about in the morning. I can see they 516 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: talked about the jets imploding. Hit that button and it 517 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: goes right to their right there to that segment. So 518 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: we're doing those kinds of things to make radio streaming 519 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: more appealing to customers who want to get it on 520 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: more digital devices. You also have smart speakers. Smart speakers 521 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: have been a great boon. Radios in the homes, it's 522 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: no secret have declined, but they've actually just been replaced 523 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: by smart speakers, and it's really easy to say play 524 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: K rock or play k and x UM and so 525 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: those are those are driving growth. And then as people 526 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: get back to work, we're actually seeing desktop listening increase. 527 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: People like listening to the radio during the day because 528 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: it's curated, it's handcrafted, it's a companion tool, there's personalities there, 529 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: and so we're gonna do more on the streaming side 530 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: to do things like change the ad experience. Our streams 531 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: don't need to be measured Nielsen in the same way 532 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: linear does. They don't need to be bought in the 533 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: same way. So we can do things like interactivity at 534 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: experience and then again bringing our contents of people on 535 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: demand whenever they want it. UM is something radio has 536 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: not historically invested in up until the last few years. UM. Lastly, 537 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: I would say that data point I referenced earlier, so 538 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: podcast listening captures about six percent of all listening time 539 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: in the US. Streaming radio is now up to about 540 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: five and as I said earlier, it's growing faster than podcasting. 541 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: So we see a world where consumers will say streaming, radio, podcasting, 542 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: it's all the same thing. I like my personalities, I 543 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: like the companionship, and I want to get it on 544 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: my phone or my laptop, or my smart speaker or 545 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: the speaker in my toaster. Someday it doesn't matter to 546 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: us wherever you get it. Um audio kind of engages 547 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: in a different way, and that's that's why I think 548 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: we'll see growth in the next several years. Well before 549 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: we dig in on the podcast side, and there's a 550 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: lot to dig into their you mentioned COVID, and I 551 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: wanted to get a sense from you of how, if 552 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: at all, that disruption, that multi year disruption changed audio habits, 553 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: whether for the entire in the story you're just your company. Well, 554 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: to show you how big linear radio is as a 555 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: share of time. All audio time actually took a big 556 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: decline during COVID. There was a trough. We have a 557 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: survey called chair of Ear, which is measured quarterly and 558 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 1: goes back to and if you look at it from 559 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: things were steady and then as we headed into COVID, 560 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: you say it's really big v trough. Well, the good 561 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: news is as of second quarter of this year, we're 562 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: back to those levels. That's due to the growth in linear. 563 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: It's also actually due to the growth in streaming and 564 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: just do the growth in podcasting UM and so you know, 565 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: I think I think, as I said before, streaming audio 566 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: is going to streaming radio will continue to have an 567 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: effect on growth overall. I think that linear consumption reach 568 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: is still where it was pre pandemic UM and I 569 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: actually think that the disruption is beneficial because it drove 570 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: sampling of some of these products like more podcasting, like 571 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: streaming radio. And from an advertiser perspective, look, they just 572 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: want more impressions, they just want more reach, They just 573 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: want more targeting, and so audio is retooling itself to 574 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: give it to them across platforms. Another macro circumstance I 575 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: want to unpack is look at the state of the 576 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: economy today. I don't know whether a recession is coming 577 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: or not. Inflation certainly out of control. How is this 578 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: impacting your business? I mean, I don't think it's probably 579 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: impacting the listeners, but I got to imagine marketers are 580 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: maybe a little gunshot. Ye if if anything, it actually 581 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: drives listening up right, radio and podcasting are free and 582 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: um I think will continue to be for the foreseeable future. 583 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: And in times of disruption, people want companionship, they want 584 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: personalities they know. So if anything on listening, it's it's 585 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: a net positive. If anything on the marketer side, you 586 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: know as countless studies out there that show that advertisers 587 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: that cut back during COVID during prior recessions see an 588 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: impact on sales. And that's why I think you're seeing 589 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: this kind of mixed data from a macro perspective in 590 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: the market. UM. The thing that radio has always had 591 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: going for it, which kind of cuts both ways. It 592 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: has always been the lowest CPM media. It's always been 593 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: the lowest cost provider. If you're an advertiser and you 594 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: want reach, there's no place to get it like radio. 595 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: TV doesn't deliver it, print doesn't deliver it at a 596 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: home doesn't deliver it, and they always have the lowest 597 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: CPMs in media. Now, as a guy who comes out 598 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: of digital and TV, I think that's probably also a 599 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: bad thing. I think we need to raise our rates. 600 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: But that said, for advertisers, you can get really efficient 601 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: buys with the reach that radio provides. You what they 602 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: can do now that they couldn't do in two thousand 603 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: eight or during COVID is layer on heavy targeted streaming 604 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: media is layer on podcasting, host endorsement and target advised. 605 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: And so by doing these multi platform buys with folks 606 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: like Odyssey and our scale peers, advertisers can have incredible efficiency, 607 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: lower rates, can get more reach, more frequency out of 608 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: their out of their buys. And we've actually seen no 609 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: offense to my TV friends in the room, but we've 610 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: seen a lot of advertisers who have had success shifting 611 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: portions of their TV budget into radio and into multi 612 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: platform audio and actually delivering significantly greater outcomes for for 613 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: our O. I So I think the recession potential recession, 614 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: if anything, is an opportunity for more advertisers to discover 615 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: that if we can make it easy to buy well, 616 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: you mentioned the advantages is that the low barrier to 617 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: entry is free. Um, but there's been talks as we 618 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: get into the pod case podcast space, subscription podcast maybe 619 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: a thing is that something you guys are looking at? Yeah, 620 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: I mean today we are a reach vehicle. We want 621 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: to get our content and our creators. We have a 622 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: ton of creators in our company, as you would imagine 623 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: given how much original content. Anytime I say that, or 624 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: anytime I talk about licensing, we have a licensing business 625 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,479 Speaker 1: that is good. We do windowing. But anytime we start 626 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: to talk about that, immediately a creator in the room 627 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: will say, but I want as many people to hear 628 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: my work as possible, And so that's a part of 629 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: our DNA. We understand and supported media. We understand reach 630 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: and scale and distribution. That's not to say that there's 631 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: not consumer revenue models that will take hold in our 632 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: streaming business. Maybe in the podcast business, we're experimenting with 633 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: some of those. There's also, just like you all have done, 634 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: expanding into events and other types of consumer revenue. So 635 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: I think it's a little too early to decide is 636 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: one model or the other. I think podcasting will be 637 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: a diverse set of models, not on like YouTube influencers, 638 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: and there's probably a role for subscription to play in that. 639 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: But today we're most excited about the fact we just 640 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: want to keep growing the pie of what is already 641 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: a massive amount of listeners. So talk about what creators 642 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: you have in house there. I mean, there's obviously a 643 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: bunch of different pieces to the podcast puzzle, but let's 644 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: go one at a time. Sure, And and you know, 645 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: as you said, the barrier to entry is low, except 646 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: unless you're you know, very good at doing this, in 647 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: which case it can be a little bit higher. But 648 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: the cost relative to TV are still very low. Covid 649 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: actually also helped grow our podcast creating business and our 650 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: studio businesses because people couldn't go to set, it couldn't shoot, 651 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: and so they could stay at home. We can send 652 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: them a great quality of microphone and they could record 653 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: great shows. And so whether it's a Glennon Doyle who 654 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: is a part of our cadence, their teen studio, stephen 655 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: A Smith. We have a great partnership with Puck News, 656 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: Punch Hoole, with a number of news businesses. We have 657 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: a great influencer business called Bramble, which actually joint venture 658 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: with our friends at U t A. And it's everyone 659 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 1: from Charlie and Dixie, Damelio to Smash to Reten Link, 660 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: Emma Chamberlain. That's a great business for us. Um a 661 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: lot in sports, stephen A Smith and a number of 662 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: other creators there. We even have narrative businesses. John Mitcham, 663 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: the historian is a great partner of ours. We have 664 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: an imprint with him. Doc Rivers is a part of 665 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: that as well. Um and then we have a big 666 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: growing original studio at at Caden's thirteen, so a number 667 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: of shows Gone South and others which have been at 668 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: the top of the charts and gotten a lot of 669 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: critical acclaim. And we actually even launched a features business. 670 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: We dot our first one in partnership with Endeavor Content 671 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: and have expanded that business where we're taking scripts which 672 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: are made for feature length films, developing in them and 673 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: producing them as podcasts. First, our first one was with 674 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: Kieranan Shipka called treat Our second when Ghostwriters was with 675 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: Adam Scott and Kate Mara, and those are ultimately destined 676 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: to become feature films using podcasts not only as a 677 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: way to build audience, but as a way to develop 678 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: i P cheaply or relatively cheaply compared to what a 679 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: traditional development window. So that that's our Cadence their teen business, 680 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,439 Speaker 1: and that is a big scale based business. We also 681 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: have a studio called Pineapple Street. Many of you may 682 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: be familiar with them. They do the top companion podcasts, 683 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: did Succession with HBO, UM Winning Time. They've done a 684 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: ton for Netflix, including Don't Look Backs, Companion Show. They 685 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: do a lot of work for brands like Nike and Google, 686 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: but they also create some of the biggest sort of 687 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: chart topping podcasts When to Change, They did Missing which 688 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: Richard Simmons way back, and they have a number of 689 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: hits out this year. So they are a high quality 690 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: boutique studio. And and they actually have a slate deal 691 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: with Amazon, one of the first slate deals I've seen 692 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: in podcasting for partnership for four shows, and I'm sure 693 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: we'll do more there, So that's a great business for us. 694 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: And then and then you know, remember we also on 695 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: the radio side have um let's say, thousand talent across 696 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: the company, across the top fifty markets in the US 697 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: UM and so we're creating a ton of content. They're 698 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: both local engagement as well as in sports. We launched 699 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: a new studio last year called Sports. In its first year, 700 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: it now has over a hundred shows covering all NFL teams, 701 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: NBA teams, MLB teams, And we've got writers and our 702 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: talent and former players who are hosting podcast targeted directly 703 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: at those fan bases. It's growing like crazy. So you know, 704 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: podcasting today is about creating content, resonates with listeners and 705 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: then holding on as it goes so fast and scales 706 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: so fast. It's a lot like the early days of YouTube. 707 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: Collaborations are big, word of mouth is really big. But 708 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it comes down to 709 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: give an intimate relationship with a listener. As you know, 710 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: strictly business, you have your your earbuds in their gas plug. 711 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: They're walking around the streets of Manhattan, are driving here 712 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 1: in their car in l a or or on the train, 713 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: or at home doing dishes at night. That's me um, 714 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: And so you're inside their earbuds and there is no 715 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: more intimate type of media than that. And if you 716 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 1: can tap into that intimacy and relationship with an audience, um, 717 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a million down liards before you know it. 718 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: So that that's our podcast business on the studio side, 719 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: I should say, on the advertiser side, we also have 720 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: a platform called Podcorn. Podcorn has it's sort of the 721 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: midtail business, the seventy creators. It's unique. No other platform 722 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: has that kind of scale. And this is great if 723 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: you're a brand that wants to come in and say, 724 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: I want to find a thousand shows that have really 725 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: niche but powerful, deep audiences in let's call it road cycling. 726 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: And so with podcorn you can come in as an advertiser. 727 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: You can find these thousand shows in road cycling, they've 728 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: got real niche audiences, and you can very easily buy 729 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,479 Speaker 1: a host red personal endorsement at across all thousand shows 730 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: with the bush of one button. So that's a great platform. 731 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,919 Speaker 1: We bought it about a year and a half ago. 732 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: It's scaling like crazy. Great co founders, Um, we're good 733 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: friends of the family and and so we believe they're 734 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: that platform that was also allowing our team to go 735 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: in and find creators that would have never otherwise been 736 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: discovered and then potentially offer them deals for radio, for podcasts, etcetera. 737 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: So that business is a huge, multidimensional business. But it's 738 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: got a great flywall flywell to it. Yeah, I mean 739 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: there is a lot there and it makes me wonder ballpark, 740 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of podcast digital linear in terms 741 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: of revenue contribution, what is that mixed shift looking like? Well, 742 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: so before the pandemic in en are digital revenues represented 743 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: about nine pcent of our total company revenues, and it 744 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: probably won't surprise you today that we are nearly a 745 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: quarter digital when it comes to revenue mix, and obviously 746 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: that digital is growing and continue to grow double digits. 747 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: It's also a nice diverse business. As you mentioned, we 748 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: have our streaming business with our podcast business, and we 749 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: asked we actually also have a digital agency business that 750 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: local advertisers, the five thousand of them can help activate 751 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: their search campaigns. They're connected TV campaigns, their email campaigns, 752 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: and each of those businesses um are are roughly about 753 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: the same in terms of size and focus. And then 754 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: during the pandemic, we entered the sports betting business, which 755 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,399 Speaker 1: has been taking off. Of course, we bought an app 756 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: called back Quel for that, which is like a it's 757 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: a subscription business, sort of like a Bloomberg terminal for betting. 758 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: If you want to know what has the most profitable 759 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,839 Speaker 1: outcome for tonight's bets, Beq will tell you. But why 760 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: we bought it is we turned it into a content 761 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: marketing business. We created a Baqel network, the leading sports 762 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: betting podcast in the US, and so that's what we 763 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 1: know how to do. We know how to make content 764 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: and any space we enter, like a sports betting space. 765 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: We're gonna take something that has data and turn it 766 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: into content and turn it into big audiences. Those four 767 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: businesses are our digital business. You know, there's great adjacent 768 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: season synergies between them, and you could think about other 769 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 1: of adjacencies to those businesses that we might be interested 770 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: in the future. Well, if there's one recurring theme here, 771 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: it's sports. I mean that seems to be kind of 772 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,359 Speaker 1: the specialty for your company, and sports betting I would 773 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,280 Speaker 1: imagine is really going to supercharge that. That's right. Looks 774 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 1: we are by far and away the number one sports 775 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: audio company in the United States, both in radio and 776 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: in and an audio more generally, also very deep in news. 777 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 1: Those two together contribute to that market share in spoken word. 778 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: And you know, you gotta know how to do this 779 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: kind of content. It's really hard to open up. I'm 780 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: a huge sports fan. You and I sit down and 781 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: record a sports podcast. I don't think anybody in this 782 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: room is gonna listen to it, probably more because of 783 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: me than you, So you gotta really know what you're doing. 784 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: You gotta know how to engage an audience. Talking about 785 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: sports is about building characters amongst folks in the show. 786 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: It's about really tapping into storylines, knowing when great is 787 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 1: great and when not great is also great, and understanding 788 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 1: how to play that role engaging fans. So there's a 789 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: real competency that has to be built, and I think 790 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: that's why, whether it's sports podcasting, whether it's sports betting, 791 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: that E n A in sports has allowed us to 792 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: really quickly enter and scale in those markets. I mean, 793 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 1: if there's any obstacle in the podcast business, and I 794 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: think you were kind of alluding to this, it's discovery. 795 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: There's just so much out there, So how are you 796 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: able to take care of what's underneath the Odyssey umbrella 797 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: and make sure that it's really maximizing its audience potential. Look, 798 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: we used to say podcasting was an eight twenty business 799 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 1: where eight percent of the dollars an audience went to 800 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: percent of the shows. I would say now it's probably 801 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: business because there are just so many shows. Anyone, uh, 802 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: including our new sports podcast we're gonna launch next week, 803 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 1: could launch a podcast. It's very easy to do, and 804 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: so that means you got over three million podcasts, probably 805 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: four million by the time we're done here. Um, This 806 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,280 Speaker 1: is where the power of a network and the power 807 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: of a group of shows together really matters, whether it's 808 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 1: us or some of our our peers. Um. You know, 809 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: our podcast business has reaches about fifty million people globally 810 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,320 Speaker 1: every month, will over thirty million in the US, almost 811 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: one in three podcast listeners. And so what we do is, 812 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: just like other kinds of media, we let the shows 813 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: talk to each other, we cross pollinate, host we promote 814 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: one show from another. The best way to discover podcasts 815 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: is no surprise on another podcast. So whether it's promoting 816 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: on our Podcorn network, whether it's promoting within our own shows, 817 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,879 Speaker 1: that's really the best way to discovery. But I will 818 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: tell you owning a radio business that reaches a couple 819 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: hundred Americans isn't bad either, And so that allows us 820 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: to not just run ads. But when we did Gone South, 821 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: which was a true crime story in New Orleans, we 822 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: were able to have the reporter call into one of 823 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: our New Orleans stations. They spent an hour on the 824 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: phone talking about this case, and the numbers in New 825 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: Orleans the next day threw off the charts. So, you know, 826 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: having that radio business, the streaming business, and of course 827 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: that podcast network today. That's really the best way to 828 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 1: get discovery, even more so than leaning on promoted post 829 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 1: on the platforms or charts or things of that nature. 830 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 1: But you're also in live events. To some we are 831 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: hearing how material is that. Look, it's a really important 832 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: part of our overall portfolio. We can survive. Coming up 833 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: here next month at the Hollywood Bawl, we just announced 834 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: the lineup. We have Odyssey Beach Fest in Florida coming up. 835 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 1: Stars and Strings, which is a country event in Florida. 836 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: We do these great multi artist events. We also do 837 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: live events in sports, we do coach talks and things 838 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: of that nature. UM, and we've done other sort of 839 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: civic engagement work, which is a really important part of 840 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,879 Speaker 1: our company. We've done that in our news business, will 841 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: do that leaning into the election. You know, radio and 842 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: events have always worked very well together because people when 843 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,399 Speaker 1: somebody in the morning radio show or in your drive 844 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: home says you gotta check this out, you gotta come 845 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: to this event, you gotta come touch this artist or 846 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: this athlete or this coach or learn from this influence 847 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,280 Speaker 1: or um, people really lean into that, you know, virtual events. 848 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: On the music side, we were talking about have been 849 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: a little bit tricky, but I will say Glenn and Doyle, 850 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: one of our podcast host who has an amazingly engaged community, 851 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: did a virtual event for us and we had I 852 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: think fifty thou people can currently live streaming this event 853 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: who were part of her community. That doesn't just happen 854 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: in live events. So again, I think that connection of 855 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,879 Speaker 1: talent UH and the ability to activate local audiences who 856 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: are the ones going to these events um is a 857 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: real differentiator for us and and for the industry generally. Well, 858 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean, as this conversation proves, there's a lot of 859 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 1: pieces in the Odyssey puzzle, but you've done a good 860 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: job of explaining how it all comes together for this 861 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,399 Speaker 1: broader picture. Thanks for taking the time to talk to you, Judy, 862 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. Always good to see you. This 863 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next 864 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media movers 865 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,840 Speaker 1: and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to the 866 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review in 867 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.