WEBVTT - Arielle Duhaime-Ross 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:03.560 It feels like a life hack being a science journalist, 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.560 which is what I trained in. Is it really true 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:07.200 that you googled it to see if it was a 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.080 job science journalists? That's one would happened. I thought I 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.360 was like inventing a term. I did happen to look 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:17.960 at the Google history of friends. I was looking at 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.159 photos on her kid's phone, and I did see in 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:25.760 their Google history that they've been googling cake taster as 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.720 a potential job. That must be a job. I think 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.519 I have, like vaguely some uncle who was a cheese 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.200 taster for like cheese contests. Yeah, you see that sounds 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:41.840 like a gig to me, right. Yeah, Hello, I'm mini 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.760 driver and welcome to many questions. I've always loved prus questionnaire. 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.920 It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.720 reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.120 there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.040 I took the format of Pruce's questionnaire and adapt it. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.760 What I think are seven of the most important questions 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.720 you could ever ask someone. They are when and where 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.559 were you happiest? What is the quality you like least 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:16.039 about yourself. What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.720 What question would you most like answered, What person, place, 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.959 or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.800 your last meal? And can you tell me something in 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.840 your life that has grown out of a personal disaster. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.560 The more people we ask, the more we begin to 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.600 see what makes us similar and what makes us individual. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.680 I've gathered a group of really remarkable people who I 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.840 am honored and humbled to have had a chance to 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:50.200 engage with. My guest today is Ariel do em Ross. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.920 She was the first climate change correspondent in American nightly 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.400 News and has written for Scientific American Nature, Medicine, and 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.720 The Atlantic. She had a brilliant podcast that I loved 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:06.080 called Reset, which was about how technology was changing everything, 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.959 and today she is the host of the Vice News 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.800 Reports podcast. She has a degree in zoology and also 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.960 one in classical guitar. She's a passionate advocate for the 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:20.639 environment and also a gifted artist. All to say, just 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:29.040 my kind of polymath. Where and when were you happiest? 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.600 I was thinking about this question and I really like it. 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.079 I really like the whole format of your podcast. If 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:36.480 I you know, if I can say that I think 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.959 it's replicable in a way that also just everybody's gonna 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.679 have a different answer, and it's just innately interesting. But yeah, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.480 I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.200 for me, where I landed was that when I feel 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.839 happiest is when I feel at peace, and so it's 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:55.680 not these big important moments that feel really monumental in 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.799 my life. The thing that came to mind for me 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.959 was this one time I was report warding for Vice 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.399 News Tonight on HBO, but I was the climate change 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.440 correspondent for for three years. I was on a reporting trip. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.920 We were in Greenland, in the middle of nowhere, and 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.880 I was running on this dirt road and I I'm 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.560 not really a runner, I'm no longer a runner. My 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.560 knees don't like it. But I remember really feeling at 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.200 peace there in that moment, and I think it's because 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.440 it was just part of my routine. It was the 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.519 thing that no matter where I was in the world, 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.960 I would run in the morning and it was an anchor. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:36.360 And I'm happiest when I am able to routinely have 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:41.040 a loane time. Does that alone time? Does that create connection? 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.640 Because if you're doing something repeatedly in all these different places. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.400 What would the connection be too, if that's what you're recreating. Yeah, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.280 it's a good question, I think for me with running, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.240 and there are other forms of me being alone, I 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.240 like drawing a lot, so I will go to a 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.840 place and draw my environment. I think it is about 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.480 connecting with the environment that I'm in, and also it 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.120 is about recharging so that I can connect more deeply 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:07.160 with the people around me afterwards. So it's both. It's 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:11.640 about being present for everything else after I've completed the run, 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.600 you know, after I've completed the drawing. And I suppose 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:20.040 peace is connection, like pieces pieces, connection to all of 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.600 the stuff that isn't the noise. And I mean that 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.440 both positively and negatively of our daily lives. So that's 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:30.360 quite an interesting correlation. And I also like the idea 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.560 of doing something that you do everywhere in all those places, 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.360 and that that is that is the thing that brings 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.720 you back to you. Yeah. Absolutely, I think it's just 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.760 I really am serious about routine. I think that, you know, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:48.040 I thrive when much like children do, right, I thrive 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.159 with routine. And some people are are better able to 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.200 just adapt to whatever is happening in their lives. But 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.720 I need to have something that makes me feel like, Okay, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.920 this is this moment in the day that I am 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.520 doing this one thing that I do almost every day. 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.960 And you know, with the pandemic, it's been a little 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.480 bit more of a struggle for me to find that. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.320 But you know, I think I'm working it out very good. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.040 What do you do? If you don't mind my asking it? 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:17.920 Did drawing replace running? When I was a child, I 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.560 was not super accepted in elementary school. I was different, right. 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.760 I was one of the few kids of color in 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:29.479 my school. I'm black. I was like, you know, tomboys, dyke, 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.159 and I was bookish and also a jock, like a 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.360 very weird combination of things. But I was different. I 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.440 was very very different, and I felt like I didn't 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.120 have close friendships, how somewhat bullied. I hesitate to use 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.120 that word because I think it's complicated, but I was 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.880 often alone as a child. I didn't have like any 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.240 neighborhood kids like it was just adults living or on 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.560 my street like it just I didn't have that. But 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:00.200 what came out of that kind of solitary childhood was 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.760 my art was was drawing, and for me, drawing was 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.400 this just amazing thing that I was able to do 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.200 all the time. Constantly, I would be in the basement 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.160 just like working on a project. That I always had 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.120 an art project going, and I kept it up for 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.560 a while, even through my Masters. I remember handing in 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.560 once like a comic book page as one of my 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.760 papers because that was loud. And then I stopped completely 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.320 and then the pandemic hit. And I think that's the 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.719 reason why it's top of mind for me is because 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:31.520 I reverted back to drawing and now I make artwork 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.480 for Vice News reports for the podcast. It brings me 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.080 so much joy and it takes so much time. It's 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.960 an absurd thing to do for a podcast host. Like 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.320 I can't believe my boss and like not only lets 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.840 me do it, but asked me to do it. I 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.800 think that's great. I think that's great. Why did you 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.560 stop doing it? You know? There are a few things 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.400 like that in my life. So I have a a 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.520 weird background. After high school, I studied classical guitar and 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.920 then when to study zoology for my bachelor's and then 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:07.120 did science writing science reporting, and I stopped playing guitar too, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:09.480 and I don't know. I think it's it's a feeling 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.880 of like, if you can't be the best, then why 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.520 do it at all? But for whatever reason, during the pandemic, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.920 all of that went away. I didn't care anymore. I 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.640 don't care that my drawings aren't perfect. I know they're not, 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.320 but I get so much a piece out of it, 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.360 so much comfort out of it, and I learned new 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.400 things all the time. It's just this wonderful thing that 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:32.080 I I'm not even sad I stopped, Like there's no regret. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.560 It's just like it feels like I'm starting on you 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.200 and I just get to move forward and get back 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.720 into it. With guitar, I'm not there yet, but withdrawing, 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.400 I am. And that is truly, truly a one amazing 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.480 thing in my life right now. What a gift, What 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.400 a lovely gift, and a gift that you can put 0:07:50.400 --> 0:08:04.680 down and pick up when you're ready. Okay, So what 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.040 question would she most like answered? So? I'm a huge 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.480 fan of Octavia Butler, of her science fiction writing. I 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:15.760 think she was brilliant, truly, and in one particular series 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.360 of her books. In the series, it has to do 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.320 with aliens, and it's beautiful. It's really really beautiful. I 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.440 don't I don't typically go for alien stories, but this 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.840 one is top notch. And in it she writes that 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.800 the downfall of the human species is that we are 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:38.959 extremely intelligent and hierarchical. And I would love to know, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.320 not necessarily how to alter that, but how to harness 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.200 it for good. Like I guess, the question is, how 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.240 do you convince the species, the human species, to fight 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:56.440 back against our hierarchical nature, to take stock of this 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:02.800 characteristic and to open our eyes to its negative aspects? Right? 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:08.360 How do you do that? M God? I mean, I 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.760 really I feel you, But I really think if you 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.240 unpick that sweater, because it speaks to the fundament of Darwinism, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.600 you know, a survival of the fittest, which is the 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:24.040 ultimate hierarchy, And if you start dismantling that, then perhaps 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.280 maybe we would just be happier as single cell ambers 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.559 in the primordial sludge. I mean maybe, I don't know 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.920 if you necessarily dismantle it, because I do think the 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.480 beautiful things come out of further competitive nature, you know, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.800 and I certainly don't think that you know, Communism when 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.679 actually put in practice, you know, often has people who 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.920 take advantage of the system. What I think would be 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:49.240 wonderful would be to just have people realize that this 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:53.920 has an impact, that this is probably the thing fundamentally 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.599 that has led to climate change. You know. It a 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.000 thing that leads to wars that make no sense. It 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.240 is a thing that prevent in us from connecting truly 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.360 with each other and with people who are different from us. 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.360 Do you believe the hierarchy is that the fundament of 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.439 those things. I think it's the combination of us being 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.400 incredibly smart and hierarchy. Yeah, so the misuse of hierarchy. 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:20.080 So how could we better use hierarchy? That's really interesting, Yeah, yeah, 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:24.480 and just a more collaborative world. How could we make 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.960 a more collaborative world? You know, I covered climate change 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.360 for three years. It was hard, for sure, it was hard. 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.160 It just felt like people weren't listening to each other 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.880 a lot because fear and protectionism. Those have been the ironically, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.720 the unifying characteristic of the world is protectionist And we're 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.439 going to do it this way, and we will share information, 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.640 but up to a point, and we might also not 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.719 share all of the information, and fear is at the 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.719 root of that. Yeah, fear is at the root of 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.560 that fear, and wanting to protect your family, wanting to 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.600 put them above everybody else, which is a perfectly understandable 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.920 feeling to have. The it is rooted in fear, and 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.440 oftentimes that turns into fear of others and a refusal 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.880 to listen, a refusal to open your heart, open your mind. 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.320 I think Octavia Butler had it right. I really do. Yeah, 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.520 I've got to go back and read some more because 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.840 I think you're right. I mean it's funny. I mean 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.400 we're you know, we're all looking at hierarchical structures and 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.880 the way that they create systems right now and hoping 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.559 to dismantle some of those. But as with every revolution, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.520 it feels like we're having a blanket responds to something 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.679 that is so incredibly nuanced, and us reaching for and 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.359 working for to find the nuance is also really important, 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.880 and it's tough because this all comes back to the 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.560 fact that we different communities have different values and we 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.960 don't have um universal list of priorities right Like, I 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.040 don't know how to get to that, but I think, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.760 just how do we make this world more collaborative. I 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:56.840 think it's a really great question. I think it's a 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.000 really great question to have answered. How do we make 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:05.840 this world more collaborative? I love that? So what quality 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.520 do you like least by yourself? I grew up in 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:15.839 a family that prizes rationality, integrity, moral behaviors, I think, 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.840 above everything else, and that comes with a ton of benefits, right, Like, 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:22.320 that's that's generally a good environment to grow up in. 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.160 But I think for me, the way that I internalized 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.920 some of that information and some of that prioritizing is 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.280 that I know, I think I internalized it in sort 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:38.640 of a maladaptive way. Over time, I am very good 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:44.000 at rationalizing my feelings into oblivion mm hmm, meaning that 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.640 if if I'm upset by something that somebody said or 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.480 something going on in my life, I will make backflips 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.959 really to try and either explain to myself why, you know, 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.719 why there's a there's probably a good reason for why 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.960 they said what they said. Why you know, I'm just 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.360 not understanding the context. Uh, And really, like in the 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.640 grand scheme of things, my problems are rather small, you know, rationally, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.640 like this is a very small thing. So I just 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:15.160 I invalidate my own feelings routinely, and you know it 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.840 might be something perfectly valid, but I'll just tell myself 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.800 all the reasons why I shouldn't be concerned with it, 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.000 and I can. Yeah, I just convince myself that my 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.560 feelings are invalid, and I really dislike that about myself. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.480 Do you try to change it? Do you take steps 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:32.920 to change that sort of as it's happening, or do 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:37.080 you sit around and think of other approaches? Well, I'm 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.960 noticing it more now and honestly, like, do I try 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.160 to change it? Yes, in the sense that I'm in therapy. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:49.160 I love my therapist. She's wonderful. Um, I do this 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.200 really cool form of therapy that I enjoy quite a 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.480 bit and that has just really changed my life. Wow. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.280 What is it. It's called i f S. It stands 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.160 for internal family systems, So I guess a less well 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.960 known therapy modality, but the way that it works, and god, 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.880 anybody who knows if S will probably like, I think 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:10.839 that I'm explaining this poorly, so I you know, I 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.400 apologize in advance. But basically, it's like when you say, oh, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.319 a part of me feels like this, or a part 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.240 of me feels like that. Those parts are the family 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:25.240 system that you're tackling. So you will externalize those parts 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.320 and you will talk to those parts of yourself and 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.920 try to find out more and learn more about like 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.560 why does that part feel that way? What you know? 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.720 And and the part that rationalizes that's a part for me. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.080 That's one of those things that I tackle in therapy. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.400 That's interesting and it's really useful because you build empathy 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.560 for those parts that you dislike about yourself. So I say, like, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.400 I really dislike that part of myself, but also I'm 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.920 trying to understand it also, I'm trying to feel for it. 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.080 I want to help it. The goal is for me 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.200 to dislike it less and to understand that it's probably 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.840 protecting me in some way. Mm hmmm. It's changing a 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.520 processing system though, isn't it, or maybe unfolding it into 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:14.160 a slightly less rational hug. Yeah, and I think it's 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.720 just you know, over time, hopefully. I think the goal 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.760 is that I stop invalidating when I'm bothered by something 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:26.120 and start letting myself feel it. God. Yeah, wow, I 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.680 could really stand to feel a little less. I mean, 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.440 what do you mean by that? It's like, Christ, do 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.640 I have to have twenty different feelings? About this because 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.760 you know, and all of them feeling sometimes overwhelming and volcanic. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:47.880 I would love a bit more rationality. Oh that's interesting. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.680 I feel like it would calm the waters because my 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:56.640 boyfriend is very it's very rational, but has extraordinary compassion, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.200 so he can sort of explain it to me at 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.840 me feeling patronized or unheard, which I think is of 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.760 incredibly special quality. But we were talking the other day 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:11.080 about your knee joke. Reaction to a situation is your past, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:16.240 and your response to it is your present. So you 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.560 are always in charge of your response. But that initial 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.880 kick of what we do and how we are, which 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.160 we so often react to and carry on reacting to. 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:27.840 I thought that was interesting to look at it as 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:33.120 a kind of past system. That felt quite empowering, that resonates. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.920 I think the thing that comes to mind hearing that 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.920 is I agree that your initial reaction is your past. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.560 I don't know if you can always control your reaction 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:46.680 in the present if your past is so unaddressed that 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.040 it takes over right, And I think that's what being 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.040 triggered is. But what about that space? So what if 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:57.160 it were about actually identifying and acknowledging that there is 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.680 a space that one's initial reaction is this thing, systemic 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.600 thing in one and then going, if I give this 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:09.120 thirty seconds recognizing what it is, that perhaps the response 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.719 would be different, and perhaps who I am now if 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.000 I gave them credence and empowered them, would actually have 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.399 a different response, and therefore I could sort of be 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.000 slightly more in charge of my evolution. I mean, it 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:23.400 seems like you're primed for I F S. I don't 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.240 know if you've you know, that's That's exactly what it is, right. 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.600 It's creating distance between these reactions and then being able 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.880 to address them and change those patterns over time. It's 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.760 funny because it's how a lot of my friends who 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:41.040 take medication for anxiety and depression. It's often how they've 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.960 explained it is that it gives you this moment to 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:49.639 not dissolve, disintegrate and free fall into the reaction, but 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.639 rather to negotiate and marshal a different response. That's interesting. 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.120 That's interesting. I A not that I'm equating the two, 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:03.840 but I recently put my dog on zach because nightly 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.200 fireworks for a while before the fourth of July were 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.320 really really specifically in my area. Of Brooklyn were really 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.840 really terrible. I mean it felt like there was a 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.959 boom every five seconds, and my dog got really really upset. 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.240 And she wasn't previously scared of fireworks. Last summer she 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.160 was fine, but then we moved and there were more fireworks, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.400 and it's been pretty terrible. So for like two months, 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.439 she would hide in the bathroom every night and just 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.800 cower and refused to go outside, you know, to to 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:37.840 do her thing before bedtime, like just completely unable to 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:39.720 snap out of it. And it didn't matter if we 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.359 gave her a piece of hot dog or a piece 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.760 of cheese or any healthier dog treat alternative like it 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.560 just she couldn't snap out of it. And the prozac 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.840 is just doing wonders. She is happy again. She is 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.960 not scared at night. She and when she does get scared, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.960 if there is a big boom, she covers so much faster. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:07.760 It's amazing. She's a like eight pound Chihuahua and I 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.760 love her deeply. Um and I'm just I'm just relieved. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.879 I'm so happy to hear that my friend's dog, Pete 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.439 was very very unhappy and he went on prozac, and 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.640 I feel like he found himself again. Yeah, I'm glad 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:27.160 there's lots of therapy going on in your household about 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:43.280 the fire ones. What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.119 for you? When I think about love, I feel like 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.760 my instinct is to think about my grandmother and to 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.960 think about the way that she interacted with us when 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.040 she was alive, and she just had this infinite patience 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.399 and infinite curiosity about her life lives. It just feels 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:07.879 really pure. And also because it is a childlike love, 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.520 it feels two dimensional to me. What does that mean? 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:13.360 I mean, what does that mean in terms of processing 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.680 that it feels two dimensional? Toy? Well, it feels like 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.560 we never went through any of the heart stuff together. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.919 I see. It was amazing, It was perfect, and it 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.520 was very one sided, probably right, Like I mean, I 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.280 loved her deeply, but I didn't prod her life and 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.040 her inner feelings the way I would as an adult, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.000 and so I feel like I missed out on that 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.639 opportunity a little bit to reciprocate in a way that 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.040 feels meaningful. She knew that I loved her, I was 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.800 obsessed with her, But it feels very childlike. But perhaps 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.320 that was exactly what she wanted, and perhaps she had 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.280 all the more complicated prodding from all the other people 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.480 in her life, probably, but with you, it was pure 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.959 and it was uncomplicated, just unconditional love. Yeah, I mean, 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.000 and there's definitely something to be said for that. But 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.639 for me, when I think about what defines love, then 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:05.240 I think, you know, the tendency is for people to 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.640 look around and to point at something and say that's 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.159 that's what I want. And when I do that, what 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.520 I land on is my current relationship with my wife. 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.760 That's what I want and I and I have it. 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.960 I'm very fortunate in that way. I am deeply, deeply 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:24.200 in love with her and I am loved well by her, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.000 And I mean to me that there's everything about our 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.439 relationship which is not perfect, but is the closest thing 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.840 I've ever experienced to that. How do you think that 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.680 that sort of feeling of completion with yourself when you're 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.680 with somebody else and with them, how does one keep 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:47.960 evolving when you feel like something has completed? Well, I 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.399 think that's that's the that's the whole thing you like 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.640 exactly hit it, you know. It's the love that we 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:59.920 have is a love where it is freeing you are 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.520 to be yourself and to be yourself fully in every 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:10.920 iteration of yourself throughout time. And so I know that Meredith, 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.800 I love the person I was five years ago deeply, 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.960 she loves the person that I am today, and in 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.400 all likelihood, because we have this foundation of allowing for change, 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.280 she will love the person that I am in ten years. 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.720 And that's certainty. That belief that she believes that I 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:35.960 am beautiful, both both inside and out, and also that 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.520 that beauty means that I am not perfect, means that 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.359 I will change, means that I will be a different person. 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.119 It just you grow in a relationship that is healthy. 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.600 You grow with your partner, and we have grown a 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.440 lot over the last seven years. That's so nice to hear. 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:56.000 It's so lovely, and you're right, growth is growing together 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.240 is it is definitely the coolness stone. If there is 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:04.520 a special source to a a relationship that has longevity, 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.600 I would say that it is that it is mutual 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:12.320 growth and respect for each other's growth. Yeah. Absolutely, And 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.520 I think it's just being free to be the ugly 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.480 parts of yourself as well, right, and to tackle those 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.280 to not hide them away from your partner. And from 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:26.600 the world to be told that it is okay, and 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.720 she's she's really the first person in my life that 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.360 truly made me feel beautiful. And I think that that 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.960 is really, really meaningful. I mean, she's amazing, She's she's unbelievable. 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:39.840 You know. Oh god, this is so embarrassing. I can't 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:41.800 really want to talk about this. Um. You know. The 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.200 thing that I love about a relationship is that we play. 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:48.000