1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: It feels like a life hack being a science journalist, 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: which is what I trained in. Is it really true 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: that you googled it to see if it was a 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: job science journalists? That's one would happened. I thought I 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: was like inventing a term. I did happen to look 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: at the Google history of friends. I was looking at 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: photos on her kid's phone, and I did see in 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: their Google history that they've been googling cake taster as 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: a potential job. That must be a job. I think 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: I have, like vaguely some uncle who was a cheese 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: taster for like cheese contests. Yeah, you see that sounds 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: like a gig to me, right. Yeah, Hello, I'm mini 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: driver and welcome to many questions. I've always loved prus questionnaire. 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: I took the format of Pruce's questionnaire and adapt it. 18 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: What I think are seven of the most important questions 19 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: you could ever ask someone. They are when and where 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: were you happiest? What is the quality you like least 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: about yourself. What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: What question would you most like answered, What person, place, 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: your last meal? And can you tell me something in 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: your life that has grown out of a personal disaster. 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: The more people we ask, the more we begin to 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: see what makes us similar and what makes us individual. 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people who I 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: am honored and humbled to have had a chance to 30 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: engage with. My guest today is Ariel do em Ross. 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: She was the first climate change correspondent in American nightly 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: News and has written for Scientific American Nature, Medicine, and 33 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: The Atlantic. She had a brilliant podcast that I loved 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: called Reset, which was about how technology was changing everything, 35 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: and today she is the host of the Vice News 36 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: Reports podcast. She has a degree in zoology and also 37 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: one in classical guitar. She's a passionate advocate for the 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: environment and also a gifted artist. All to say, just 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: my kind of polymath. Where and when were you happiest? 40 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this question and I really like it. 41 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: I really like the whole format of your podcast. If 42 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: I you know, if I can say that I think 43 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: it's replicable in a way that also just everybody's gonna 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: have a different answer, and it's just innately interesting. But yeah, 45 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: for me, where I landed was that when I feel 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: happiest is when I feel at peace, and so it's 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: not these big important moments that feel really monumental in 49 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: my life. The thing that came to mind for me 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: was this one time I was report warding for Vice 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 1: News Tonight on HBO, but I was the climate change 52 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: correspondent for for three years. I was on a reporting trip. 53 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: We were in Greenland, in the middle of nowhere, and 54 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: I was running on this dirt road and I I'm 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: not really a runner, I'm no longer a runner. My 56 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: knees don't like it. But I remember really feeling at 57 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: peace there in that moment, and I think it's because 58 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: it was just part of my routine. It was the 59 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: thing that no matter where I was in the world, 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: I would run in the morning and it was an anchor. 61 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: And I'm happiest when I am able to routinely have 62 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: a loane time. Does that alone time? Does that create connection? 63 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: Because if you're doing something repeatedly in all these different places. 64 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: What would the connection be too, if that's what you're recreating. Yeah, 65 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: it's a good question, I think for me with running, 66 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: and there are other forms of me being alone, I 67 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: like drawing a lot, so I will go to a 68 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: place and draw my environment. I think it is about 69 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: connecting with the environment that I'm in, and also it 70 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: is about recharging so that I can connect more deeply 71 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: with the people around me afterwards. So it's both. It's 72 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: about being present for everything else after I've completed the run, 73 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: you know, after I've completed the drawing. And I suppose 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: peace is connection, like pieces pieces, connection to all of 75 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: the stuff that isn't the noise. And I mean that 76 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: both positively and negatively of our daily lives. So that's 77 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: quite an interesting correlation. And I also like the idea 78 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: of doing something that you do everywhere in all those places, 79 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: and that that is that is the thing that brings 80 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: you back to you. Yeah. Absolutely, I think it's just 81 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: I really am serious about routine. I think that, you know, 82 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: I thrive when much like children do, right, I thrive 83 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: with routine. And some people are are better able to 84 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: just adapt to whatever is happening in their lives. But 85 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: I need to have something that makes me feel like, Okay, 86 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: this is this moment in the day that I am 87 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: doing this one thing that I do almost every day. 88 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: And you know, with the pandemic, it's been a little 89 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: bit more of a struggle for me to find that. 90 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: But you know, I think I'm working it out very good. 91 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: What do you do? If you don't mind my asking it? 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: Did drawing replace running? When I was a child, I 93 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: was not super accepted in elementary school. I was different, right. 94 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: I was one of the few kids of color in 95 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: my school. I'm black. I was like, you know, tomboys, dyke, 96 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: and I was bookish and also a jock, like a 97 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: very weird combination of things. But I was different. I 98 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: was very very different, and I felt like I didn't 99 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: have close friendships, how somewhat bullied. I hesitate to use 100 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: that word because I think it's complicated, but I was 101 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: often alone as a child. I didn't have like any 102 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: neighborhood kids like it was just adults living or on 103 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: my street like it just I didn't have that. But 104 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: what came out of that kind of solitary childhood was 105 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: my art was was drawing, and for me, drawing was 106 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: this just amazing thing that I was able to do 107 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: all the time. Constantly, I would be in the basement 108 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: just like working on a project. That I always had 109 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: an art project going, and I kept it up for 110 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: a while, even through my Masters. I remember handing in 111 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: once like a comic book page as one of my 112 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: papers because that was loud. And then I stopped completely 113 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: and then the pandemic hit. And I think that's the 114 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: reason why it's top of mind for me is because 115 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: I reverted back to drawing and now I make artwork 116 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: for Vice News reports for the podcast. It brings me 117 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: so much joy and it takes so much time. It's 118 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: an absurd thing to do for a podcast host. Like 119 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: I can't believe my boss and like not only lets 120 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: me do it, but asked me to do it. I 121 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: think that's great. I think that's great. Why did you 122 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: stop doing it? You know? There are a few things 123 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: like that in my life. So I have a a 124 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: weird background. After high school, I studied classical guitar and 125 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: then when to study zoology for my bachelor's and then 126 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: did science writing science reporting, and I stopped playing guitar too, 127 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: and I don't know. I think it's it's a feeling 128 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: of like, if you can't be the best, then why 129 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: do it at all? But for whatever reason, during the pandemic, 130 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: all of that went away. I didn't care anymore. I 131 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: don't care that my drawings aren't perfect. I know they're not, 132 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: but I get so much a piece out of it, 133 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: so much comfort out of it, and I learned new 134 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: things all the time. It's just this wonderful thing that 135 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: I I'm not even sad I stopped, Like there's no regret. 136 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: It's just like it feels like I'm starting on you 137 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: and I just get to move forward and get back 138 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: into it. With guitar, I'm not there yet, but withdrawing, 139 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: I am. And that is truly, truly a one amazing 140 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: thing in my life right now. What a gift, What 141 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: a lovely gift, and a gift that you can put 142 00:07:50,400 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: down and pick up when you're ready. Okay, So what 143 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: question would she most like answered? So? I'm a huge 144 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: fan of Octavia Butler, of her science fiction writing. I 145 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: think she was brilliant, truly, and in one particular series 146 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: of her books. In the series, it has to do 147 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: with aliens, and it's beautiful. It's really really beautiful. I 148 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: don't I don't typically go for alien stories, but this 149 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: one is top notch. And in it she writes that 150 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: the downfall of the human species is that we are 151 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: extremely intelligent and hierarchical. And I would love to know, 152 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: not necessarily how to alter that, but how to harness 153 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: it for good. Like I guess, the question is, how 154 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: do you convince the species, the human species, to fight 155 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: back against our hierarchical nature, to take stock of this 156 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: characteristic and to open our eyes to its negative aspects? Right? 157 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: How do you do that? M God? I mean, I 158 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: really I feel you, But I really think if you 159 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: unpick that sweater, because it speaks to the fundament of Darwinism, 160 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, a survival of the fittest, which is the 161 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: ultimate hierarchy, And if you start dismantling that, then perhaps 162 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: maybe we would just be happier as single cell ambers 163 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: in the primordial sludge. I mean maybe, I don't know 164 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: if you necessarily dismantle it, because I do think the 165 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: beautiful things come out of further competitive nature, you know, 166 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: and I certainly don't think that you know, Communism when 167 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: actually put in practice, you know, often has people who 168 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: take advantage of the system. What I think would be 169 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: wonderful would be to just have people realize that this 170 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: has an impact, that this is probably the thing fundamentally 171 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,599 Speaker 1: that has led to climate change. You know. It a 172 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: thing that leads to wars that make no sense. It 173 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: is a thing that prevent in us from connecting truly 174 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: with each other and with people who are different from us. 175 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: Do you believe the hierarchy is that the fundament of 176 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: those things. I think it's the combination of us being 177 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: incredibly smart and hierarchy. Yeah, so the misuse of hierarchy. 178 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: So how could we better use hierarchy? That's really interesting, Yeah, yeah, 179 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: and just a more collaborative world. How could we make 180 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: a more collaborative world? You know, I covered climate change 181 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: for three years. It was hard, for sure, it was hard. 182 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: It just felt like people weren't listening to each other 183 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: a lot because fear and protectionism. Those have been the ironically, 184 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: the unifying characteristic of the world is protectionist And we're 185 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: going to do it this way, and we will share information, 186 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: but up to a point, and we might also not 187 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: share all of the information, and fear is at the 188 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 1: root of that. Yeah, fear is at the root of 189 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: that fear, and wanting to protect your family, wanting to 190 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: put them above everybody else, which is a perfectly understandable 191 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: feeling to have. The it is rooted in fear, and 192 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: oftentimes that turns into fear of others and a refusal 193 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: to listen, a refusal to open your heart, open your mind. 194 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: I think Octavia Butler had it right. I really do. Yeah, 195 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: I've got to go back and read some more because 196 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean it's funny. I mean 197 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: we're you know, we're all looking at hierarchical structures and 198 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: the way that they create systems right now and hoping 199 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: to dismantle some of those. But as with every revolution, 200 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: it feels like we're having a blanket responds to something 201 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: that is so incredibly nuanced, and us reaching for and 202 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,359 Speaker 1: working for to find the nuance is also really important, 203 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: and it's tough because this all comes back to the 204 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: fact that we different communities have different values and we 205 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: don't have um universal list of priorities right Like, I 206 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: don't know how to get to that, but I think, 207 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: just how do we make this world more collaborative. I 208 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: think it's a really great question. I think it's a 209 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: really great question to have answered. How do we make 210 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: this world more collaborative? I love that? So what quality 211 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: do you like least by yourself? I grew up in 212 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: a family that prizes rationality, integrity, moral behaviors, I think, 213 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: above everything else, and that comes with a ton of benefits, right, Like, 214 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: that's that's generally a good environment to grow up in. 215 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: But I think for me, the way that I internalized 216 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: some of that information and some of that prioritizing is 217 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: that I know, I think I internalized it in sort 218 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: of a maladaptive way. Over time, I am very good 219 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: at rationalizing my feelings into oblivion mm hmm, meaning that 220 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: if if I'm upset by something that somebody said or 221 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: something going on in my life, I will make backflips 222 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: really to try and either explain to myself why, you know, 223 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 1: why there's a there's probably a good reason for why 224 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: they said what they said. Why you know, I'm just 225 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: not understanding the context. Uh, And really, like in the 226 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: grand scheme of things, my problems are rather small, you know, rationally, 227 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: like this is a very small thing. So I just 228 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: I invalidate my own feelings routinely, and you know it 229 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: might be something perfectly valid, but I'll just tell myself 230 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: all the reasons why I shouldn't be concerned with it, 231 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: and I can. Yeah, I just convince myself that my 232 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: feelings are invalid, and I really dislike that about myself. 233 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: Do you try to change it? Do you take steps 234 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: to change that sort of as it's happening, or do 235 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: you sit around and think of other approaches? Well, I'm 236 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: noticing it more now and honestly, like, do I try 237 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: to change it? Yes, in the sense that I'm in therapy. 238 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: I love my therapist. She's wonderful. Um, I do this 239 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: really cool form of therapy that I enjoy quite a 240 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: bit and that has just really changed my life. Wow. 241 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: What is it. It's called i f S. It stands 242 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: for internal family systems, So I guess a less well 243 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: known therapy modality, but the way that it works, and god, 244 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: anybody who knows if S will probably like, I think 245 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 1: that I'm explaining this poorly, so I you know, I 246 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: apologize in advance. But basically, it's like when you say, oh, 247 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: a part of me feels like this, or a part 248 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: of me feels like that. Those parts are the family 249 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: system that you're tackling. So you will externalize those parts 250 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: and you will talk to those parts of yourself and 251 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: try to find out more and learn more about like 252 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: why does that part feel that way? What you know? 253 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: And and the part that rationalizes that's a part for me. 254 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: That's one of those things that I tackle in therapy. 255 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: That's interesting and it's really useful because you build empathy 256 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: for those parts that you dislike about yourself. So I say, like, 257 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: I really dislike that part of myself, but also I'm 258 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: trying to understand it also, I'm trying to feel for it. 259 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: I want to help it. The goal is for me 260 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: to dislike it less and to understand that it's probably 261 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: protecting me in some way. Mm hmmm. It's changing a 262 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: processing system though, isn't it, or maybe unfolding it into 263 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: a slightly less rational hug. Yeah, and I think it's 264 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: just you know, over time, hopefully. I think the goal 265 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: is that I stop invalidating when I'm bothered by something 266 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: and start letting myself feel it. God. Yeah, wow, I 267 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: could really stand to feel a little less. I mean, 268 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? It's like, Christ, do 269 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: I have to have twenty different feelings? About this because 270 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, and all of them feeling sometimes overwhelming and volcanic. 271 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: I would love a bit more rationality. Oh that's interesting. 272 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: I feel like it would calm the waters because my 273 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: boyfriend is very it's very rational, but has extraordinary compassion, 274 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: so he can sort of explain it to me at 275 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: me feeling patronized or unheard, which I think is of 276 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: incredibly special quality. But we were talking the other day 277 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: about your knee joke. Reaction to a situation is your past, 278 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: and your response to it is your present. So you 279 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: are always in charge of your response. But that initial 280 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: kick of what we do and how we are, which 281 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: we so often react to and carry on reacting to. 282 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting to look at it as 283 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: a kind of past system. That felt quite empowering, that resonates. 284 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: I think the thing that comes to mind hearing that 285 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: is I agree that your initial reaction is your past. 286 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if you can always control your reaction 287 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: in the present if your past is so unaddressed that 288 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: it takes over right, And I think that's what being 289 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: triggered is. But what about that space? So what if 290 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: it were about actually identifying and acknowledging that there is 291 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: a space that one's initial reaction is this thing, systemic 292 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: thing in one and then going, if I give this 293 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: thirty seconds recognizing what it is, that perhaps the response 294 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 1: would be different, and perhaps who I am now if 295 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: I gave them credence and empowered them, would actually have 296 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: a different response, and therefore I could sort of be 297 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: slightly more in charge of my evolution. I mean, it 298 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: seems like you're primed for I F S. I don't 299 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: know if you've you know, that's That's exactly what it is, right. 300 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: It's creating distance between these reactions and then being able 301 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: to address them and change those patterns over time. It's 302 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: funny because it's how a lot of my friends who 303 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: take medication for anxiety and depression. It's often how they've 304 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: explained it is that it gives you this moment to 305 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: not dissolve, disintegrate and free fall into the reaction, but 306 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: rather to negotiate and marshal a different response. That's interesting. 307 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: That's interesting. I A not that I'm equating the two, 308 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: but I recently put my dog on zach because nightly 309 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: fireworks for a while before the fourth of July were 310 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: really really specifically in my area. Of Brooklyn were really 311 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: really terrible. I mean it felt like there was a 312 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 1: boom every five seconds, and my dog got really really upset. 313 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: And she wasn't previously scared of fireworks. Last summer she 314 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: was fine, but then we moved and there were more fireworks, 315 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: and it's been pretty terrible. So for like two months, 316 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: she would hide in the bathroom every night and just 317 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: cower and refused to go outside, you know, to to 318 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: do her thing before bedtime, like just completely unable to 319 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: snap out of it. And it didn't matter if we 320 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: gave her a piece of hot dog or a piece 321 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: of cheese or any healthier dog treat alternative like it 322 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: just she couldn't snap out of it. And the prozac 323 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: is just doing wonders. She is happy again. She is 324 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: not scared at night. She and when she does get scared, 325 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: if there is a big boom, she covers so much faster. 326 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: It's amazing. She's a like eight pound Chihuahua and I 327 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: love her deeply. Um and I'm just I'm just relieved. 328 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear that my friend's dog, Pete 329 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: was very very unhappy and he went on prozac, and 330 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: I feel like he found himself again. Yeah, I'm glad 331 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: there's lots of therapy going on in your household about 332 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: the fire ones. What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love 333 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: for you? When I think about love, I feel like 334 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: my instinct is to think about my grandmother and to 335 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: think about the way that she interacted with us when 336 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: she was alive, and she just had this infinite patience 337 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: and infinite curiosity about her life lives. It just feels 338 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: really pure. And also because it is a childlike love, 339 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: it feels two dimensional to me. What does that mean? 340 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean, what does that mean in terms of processing 341 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: that it feels two dimensional? Toy? Well, it feels like 342 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: we never went through any of the heart stuff together. 343 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: I see. It was amazing, It was perfect, and it 344 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: was very one sided, probably right, Like I mean, I 345 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: loved her deeply, but I didn't prod her life and 346 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: her inner feelings the way I would as an adult, 347 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: and so I feel like I missed out on that 348 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: opportunity a little bit to reciprocate in a way that 349 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: feels meaningful. She knew that I loved her, I was 350 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: obsessed with her, But it feels very childlike. But perhaps 351 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: that was exactly what she wanted, and perhaps she had 352 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: all the more complicated prodding from all the other people 353 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: in her life, probably, but with you, it was pure 354 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,959 Speaker 1: and it was uncomplicated, just unconditional love. Yeah, I mean, 355 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: and there's definitely something to be said for that. But 356 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: for me, when I think about what defines love, then 357 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the tendency is for people to 358 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: look around and to point at something and say that's 359 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: that's what I want. And when I do that, what 360 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: I land on is my current relationship with my wife. 361 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: That's what I want and I and I have it. 362 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate in that way. I am deeply, deeply 363 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: in love with her and I am loved well by her, 364 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: And I mean to me that there's everything about our 365 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: relationship which is not perfect, but is the closest thing 366 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: I've ever experienced to that. How do you think that 367 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: that sort of feeling of completion with yourself when you're 368 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: with somebody else and with them, how does one keep 369 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: evolving when you feel like something has completed? Well, I 370 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: think that's that's the that's the whole thing you like 371 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: exactly hit it, you know. It's the love that we 372 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: have is a love where it is freeing you are 373 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: to be yourself and to be yourself fully in every 374 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: iteration of yourself throughout time. And so I know that Meredith, 375 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: I love the person I was five years ago deeply, 376 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: she loves the person that I am today, and in 377 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: all likelihood, because we have this foundation of allowing for change, 378 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: she will love the person that I am in ten years. 379 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: And that's certainty. That belief that she believes that I 380 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: am beautiful, both both inside and out, and also that 381 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: that beauty means that I am not perfect, means that 382 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: I will change, means that I will be a different person. 383 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: It just you grow in a relationship that is healthy. 384 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: You grow with your partner, and we have grown a 385 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: lot over the last seven years. That's so nice to hear. 386 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: It's so lovely, and you're right, growth is growing together 387 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: is it is definitely the coolness stone. If there is 388 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: a special source to a a relationship that has longevity, 389 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: I would say that it is that it is mutual 390 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: growth and respect for each other's growth. Yeah. Absolutely, And 391 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: I think it's just being free to be the ugly 392 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: parts of yourself as well, right, and to tackle those 393 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: to not hide them away from your partner. And from 394 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: the world to be told that it is okay, and 395 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: she's she's really the first person in my life that 396 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: truly made me feel beautiful. And I think that that 397 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: is really, really meaningful. I mean, she's amazing, She's she's unbelievable. 398 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: You know. Oh god, this is so embarrassing. I can't 399 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: really want to talk about this. Um. You know. The 400 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: thing that I love about a relationship is that we play. 401 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: She had a difficult childhood. I spent a lot of 402 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: time alone as a child, and I think that for us, 403 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: adulthood is an opportunity to really play together, to really 404 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: get that thing that we probably were seeking when we 405 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: were children. And the reason why I bring us up 406 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: is because we watch The Bachelor and The Bachelorette together, 407 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: and a few days ago we were have you are 408 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: you familiar watch the show? I didn't watch the show. 409 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: I have watched the show. Okay, I have watched some 410 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: key moments. I do. I do understand the poll? Carry on, okay, 411 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: are you good? Are you familiar with the term? Who'd you? Oh? 412 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: My god, no, what does that mean? Okay? So it 413 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: stands for hug jump and it was coined by a 414 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: podcast that covers The Bachelor specifically, and a few days 415 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: ago we were just like, let's just try it. Let's 416 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: just do the running hug jump, and so, you know, 417 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: we just like, it's really embarrassing. What we didn't realize 418 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: is that the webcam that we have in our house 419 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: for when we're checking in on our dog when we're gone, 420 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: was on. And so I have these videos, these really 421 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: embarrassing videos of her running towards me and me trying 422 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: to catch her and then twirling around saying like, oh right, 423 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: I have to twirl like that's an important part of 424 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: the hug jump. And really I just had the best time. 425 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: What would be your last mail? I discussed this answer 426 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: with my wife, and when I told her, like, what 427 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: do you think it is? She said, please tell me 428 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: it's not own meal? And oh my god, that's already 429 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: telling me that it might be a male it's oatmeal. 430 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: I think I could have done. I was like, maybe 431 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: it should be Trinidad Curry. My father's from Trinidad, you 432 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: know ROTI yum that kind of thing. Maybe it should 433 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: be my mother's from from Quebec. I grew up in Montreal, 434 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: so maybe she'd be like, it's is like a meat pie. 435 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: Maybe should be something like that, you know, something that's 436 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: culturally meaningful to me, And no, I just if I 437 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: know that I'm going to die, I want comfort and 438 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: I want something else that is anchoring and that is 439 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: part of my routine, and I want like oatmeal with 440 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: bananas and peanut butter and a cup of coffee. Like 441 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: that sounds really good. I might have to go and 442 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: make that right now. Oh yeah, highly recommended. I like that. 443 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: I like that as you were preparing to make an 444 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: exit that again, it would be about the routine and 445 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: the comfort that you found in this life and one earth. 446 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: Would you change that? And have you know Daca Larange 447 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 1: at the last moment? Yeah, why would I take a chance? 448 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: Why would you take a chance? It's the last one. 449 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: I want something consistent and that something that makes me happy. 450 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: Sprinkle oh um, if you do do it, a little 451 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: bit of molten salt flakes like on top of the 452 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: bananas and the peanut butter. Very good sounds. And you know, 453 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure that some people are hearing this and are 454 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: going like, this is the most boring thing. I cannot 455 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: believe that this is what you would eat going out. 456 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think when we think of ourselves 457 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: at the nexus of life and death, I don't think 458 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: you can judge what any single person would say is 459 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: either their last thought or the last words that they 460 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: would say, or the last meal that they would eat, 461 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: because that is between them and the life that they've 462 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 1: lived and whatever they anticipate coming next. Yeah, and I 463 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: want to feel full. I want to think, I want 464 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: to I really, really really want to feel full. By 465 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: the way, being hungry in the afterlife would most likely suck, 466 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: would suck mal like doesn't that? I mean, I don't 467 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: actually believe in the afterlife, but just in case, and 468 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: that's my kind of atheism. Look, just in case, I'm 469 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: going to have this giant glass of wine and a 470 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: bowl of oat mail. Yes, I might supplant the coffee 471 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: for Yeah, that's kind of a weird combination. I don't know, 472 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: wine and oatmeal. Look, I do the oatmeal, do some 473 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: thinking in a bit of writing, then I have a 474 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: glass of wine, and then sayonara, how about whiskey and oatmeal. 475 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: Well that's very Scottish, by the way, how about making 476 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: oatmeal with whiskey? Now that's a thought. If you soaked 477 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: the oats in the whiskey overnight even and then made them. Oh, 478 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 1: I'm definitely making this, so yeah, you'd basically completely modifying 479 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: overnight oats instead of like milk and yogurt. Let's do it, 480 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: let's do it, let's try it out. Definitely think you 481 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: should do it, because also one might just be slightly 482 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: hammered after breakfast, but you've eaten legitimately. Yeah, that sounds delightful. 483 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: It's been such a pleasure talking to you. I'm so 484 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: grateful for you coming on the show. It's just thank 485 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: you for having me. Britain. Really really appreciate it. I 486 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: love the meeting of playfulness and intellectual acuity. I appreciate that. 487 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: Say hi to Meredith from me. She will thank you 488 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: so much for having me. I really do think that 489 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: this This is an amazing format. It's very very cool. 490 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: Thank you. You can hear. R L hosts the Vice 491 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: News Reports podcast every week from Vice and I Heart Radio. 492 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: Recent episodes take you from a deep dive investigation into 493 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: one of the most influential digital disinformation machines run by 494 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: a little known Chinese spiritual movement, to Tuloom, Mexico, where 495 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: the reporter travels to try to understand why so many 496 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: Black Americans are seeking refuge there, and be sure to 497 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: check out her artwork. She makes lots of it for 498 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: many of the episodes. Mini Questions is hosted and written 499 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: by Me Mini Driver, Supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy, 500 00:29:54,280 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, 501 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: additional music by Aaron Kaufman, Executive produced by Me Mini Driver. 502 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, 503 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: Lisa Castella and Annick Oppenheim at w kPr, de La Pescador, 504 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support, 505 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: Henry Driver