1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 2: My name is Jessica and the first time I died 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: was in two thousand and five, and I've gotten better 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: at it ever since. When there is something that is 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: a perceived danger, it will flood you with enough. 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: Fear to make you act. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: Your brain has to keep flooding you with more fear 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: if you keep getting retraumatized, such as possibly near death 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: experiences that keep on happening. 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death. 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please 17 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised. 19 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: When I was eighteen, I was living with my dad. 20 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: We are very close. My dad is my best friend. 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: He raised me to be a strong willed, opinionated person 22 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: who will always chase after what she wants in the 23 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: spring semester of my senior year, I was having pain 24 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: in my jaw and I thought it was my wisdom 25 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: teeth they were coming in. I was having wisdom teeth pain. 26 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: But when my dad took me in to the doctor 27 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: and they scanned my jaw, they found a giant black hole, 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: and that black hole made a nurse rush out of 29 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: the room, and eighteen year old me looked at my dad, 30 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: looked back at the scan and as they pulled my 31 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: dad out of the room, I knew something was wrong. 32 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: After that, I had a biopsy of my jaw. The 33 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: tumor was so big that it took up probably a 34 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: third of my jaw. When they did the biopsy, they 35 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: removed my Wisden teeth. They removed three teeth in the 36 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: back as well three molars, and that biopsy ended up 37 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: being three days of the worst pain of my life. 38 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: The tumor, they had not realized, was a tumor. It 39 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 2: ripped through my jawbone into my mouth over the course 40 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: of three days. 41 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: It was like. 42 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: Uncorking a champagne bottle, and the tumor pushed through my 43 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: jaw into my mouth upward and shredded my gums through 44 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: the futures and essentially broke into my mouth in such 45 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: a way that it split the inside of my mouth, 46 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: and I could not get to a doctor fast enough. Honestly, 47 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: I believe my mother at the time gave me enough 48 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: VI could in some mady a horse pass out. They'd 49 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: given me painkillers, but I was screaming at home and 50 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: she wanted the pain to stop, and I ended up 51 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: back in the hospital to undergo another procedure to remove 52 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: what had pushed through and repair as much as they 53 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: could what was damaged. That was the first of eighteen 54 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: surgeries over the course of seven years after that, when 55 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: when the biopsy came back, it was a CGCG, a 56 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: central giant cell granulema that was essentially eating my face. 57 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 3: Those types of tumors. 58 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: They bundle themselves into blood vessels and they feed on estrogen. 59 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: Then I was at the perfect age. It was in 60 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: the middle of the age range between the ages I 61 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: believe of twelve and twenty four, and that was a 62 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: time when I was still finding out who I was 63 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: as a person. 64 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: I was still considering going to. 65 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: College but not doing well in school. But I wanted 66 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: to go to college. But then I had to start chemo. 67 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: I was on interferre on alpha for a year, and 68 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 2: this was to pull the blood buscles away from the 69 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: tumor to make it operable. In that core of a year, 70 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: I had two major surgeries. The first one was an 71 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: emergency because the tumor, even though even though they had 72 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: tried to repair what it had burst through the first time, 73 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: that tumor was still growing. It was pushing out. I 74 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: finished my school year, but I did it from home, 75 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: and I walked across the field of my graduation to 76 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: teachers just crying, which was wild because I'd only been 77 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: there a year, really just one semester. But I think 78 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: everyone had known that something pretty terrible had happened, so 79 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: later on. I believe over the summer the tumor had 80 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: been growing so much that I was being choked. It 81 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: had started growing down into the back of my throat 82 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 2: and I would choke in the middle of the night 83 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: when I would fall asleep, and the fear was that 84 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: my throat would close up. So then this surgery, I 85 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: was rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night. 86 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: My surgeon was woken up brought to the hospital because 87 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: essentially they needed to do a debulking of the tumor 88 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: in order for me to be able to close my mouth, 89 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: because it was growing so much that I couldn't close 90 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: my mouth for months. But then b also who didn't 91 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: want me choking in the middle of the night. So 92 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: when I got to the hospital, I was sitting in 93 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: the surgical bay waiting to be taken back, and my 94 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: parents get pulled away from surgery bay to talk with 95 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: my doctor, which I thought was a bit sus and 96 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 2: I'm watching them and they're looking at me a bit awkwardly, 97 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: and I'm like, what's going on? 98 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: And they come over. 99 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: My parents come over and they say we'll see you later, 100 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: We'll see you when you wake up, and they both 101 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: like kiss me on the forehead and essentially hurried out 102 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: of there. I get to this surgery bay in this moment, 103 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: and they strap my arms down and I'm like, well, 104 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: this is this is weird. Then they blindfold me and 105 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm like this is not right. And then they say 106 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: you'll feel a pinch in your throat, and I remember 107 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,119 Speaker 2: saying what, And then I feel a syringe go into 108 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: my throat and I start jerking and I was like, 109 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: that's why they've tied me down and then they sprayed 110 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: inside of my nostril and told me you are going 111 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: to feel a bit of pain, but it's going to 112 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: be over quickly. And that's when they shoved a tube 113 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: up my nose, down into my throat and into my airway. 114 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: And if you could hear the sound, it would have 115 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: been me screaming as hard as I could, thrashing on 116 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: the table until it was immediately cut, silent when the 117 00:07:53,840 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: tube hit my lungs. That is the surgery that told 118 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: me that this is way more serious. So in October 119 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: I was ready for the surgery to remove the tumor. 120 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 3: I've been doing the chemo. 121 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: The blood vessels are pulled away, very excited to finally 122 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: have this thing out of my face that has been 123 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: causing me to not be able to eat right, to 124 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: have pain in my job, bleeding in the middle of 125 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: the night. That chemo was so bad that it caused 126 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: me to have dyslexia. My hair was falling out. I 127 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: lost so much weight that I was down to ninety pounds. 128 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 3: I met the. 129 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: Surgery and they're removing all of the tumor. They only 130 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: have a little bit left. They're seeing some blood vessels, 131 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: but feel confident that they are able to cut around it. 132 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 2: But what ended up happening was as they were removing 133 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: the last bit, they hit a big blood vessel that 134 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: they couldn't see because it was under it, and I 135 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: bled out, and I bled out fast. There are still 136 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: people at the hospital today who, if you ask them, 137 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: they remember getting the page in the darkness of the 138 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 2: early early morning that they needed blood fast. Now I 139 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: had lost so much blood that I would be considered dead, 140 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: and so they had to pump it back into me 141 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: to bring me back. The experience I had and I 142 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 2: was out. 143 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: Was an interesting one. 144 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: I try to describe it to people who want to know, because, 145 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: of course you tell people this, the first thing they 146 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: ask you is do you remember? 147 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: And I do. 148 00:09:55,120 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: But the experience that I had was I would pull 149 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: it weightlessness if I had anything there to a contextual 150 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: thing to compare it to. There's no gravity, so how 151 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: can you be weightless if there's not if gravity doesn't exist. 152 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: I was aware of what was happening. What was wild 153 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: was it felt like I was expanding, but not my body, 154 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: but I as a concept was expanding, and I was 155 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: kind of being pulled away and seeing it's like when 156 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: you're on your phone and you and you pull it 157 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: to where it looks like a fish eye lens, and 158 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: everything kind of just starts to pull around you. And 159 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: I'm not seeing things because it's not my eyes. It's 160 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: just an awareness. I knew that people were panicking around me, 161 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: and I knew my parents were panicking, because how could 162 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: they not. They could tell something was wrong that everybody's 163 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: running to get to the room. 164 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 3: As this is. 165 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: Happening, I'm feeling kind of this dissolving into something bigger, 166 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: in the same way that sugar dissolves into hot water. 167 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 2: The sugar's not gone, but it's now just part of 168 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: something else. And that's what I felt like, which for me, 169 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: I feel good about. 170 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 171 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: It actually like looking at it after the fact, I'm like, oh, 172 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 2: I'm actually not so scared of dying at this point. 173 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: It's hard to. 174 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: Look back with the lens of now, because I think 175 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: at that time I was so eager. I went to 176 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: school and A I was not going to let anybody 177 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: tell me what major I was going to do. I 178 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: was going to be a theater in film major. But 179 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 2: B I was so determined that I think I became 180 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: a bit too forceful. The blunt Jessica now is blunt 181 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 2: with intention. Back then, the Jessica that had not been 182 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 2: the person who had the benefit of maturity through experience, 183 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: was the type of person who would just tell people 184 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: flat out no instead of trying to compromise. That was 185 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: a learning experience for me, for sure. I gobbled college 186 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: up I, where a lot of people were partying. I 187 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: didn't go to college U til I was twenty, so 188 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: I had a few years on everybody, and I was motivated. 189 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: I'd set in a chair for a year. I didn't 190 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 2: want to be still. I can't sit still because still 191 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: is danger. In twenty twenty one, I was working as 192 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: a graphic designer on a show here in Atlanta and 193 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: was working alongside somebody who eventually became my partner. We 194 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: were in a very loving relationship, both very excited about 195 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: where it was going. But early in the relationship I 196 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: got pregnant. It was an unintentional pregnancy. 197 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 4: At that time, I had an ID because I was 198 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 4: not expecting to try and be getting pregnant anytime soon, 199 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 4: but also because my previous tumor feed off of estrogen, 200 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 4: and my doctors at the time had said they could 201 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 4: not guarantee that getting pregnant or having some sort of 202 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 4: hormonal shift wouldn't cause another tumor. I had grown afraid 203 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 4: over the years of accidental pregnancy and what that might do. 204 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 4: I know now since science has changed, that getting pregnant 205 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 4: would not have done that likely. My brother is a doctor, 206 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 4: and he told me it would be more likely that 207 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 4: a pregnancy would shield my body from that happening. But 208 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 4: in my head at the time, I had told myself, 209 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 4: don't get pregnant or you'll die the irony, right, So 210 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 4: this is when the conversation shifted to what do we do. 211 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 4: I was pregnant and I had an ID, and talking 212 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: to my doctor, I was made very aware that this 213 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 4: was a serious issue. I had already known that there's 214 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 4: a risk of ectopic pregnancies with people who have IEDs, 215 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 4: and my doctor told me, if the egg is in 216 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 4: your uterus, we still need to remove it because if 217 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 4: the baby grows and there's an IUD in there, that's 218 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 4: not good. 219 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 3: You've got to take it out. 220 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: However, taking it out put me at risk of miscarriage, 221 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: which is a natural occurrence, but because taking it out 222 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: traumatizes the lining of the uterus, when there's a pregnancy 223 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: and the walls are growing, it might cause me to 224 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: have a miscarriage anyway. I was afraid that I. 225 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 4: Might rupture and potentially die if if that was the case. Now, 226 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 4: we took the IUD out and my doctor told me 227 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 4: that it was my choice, but because there was a 228 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 4: fear that it was a topic, he recommended that I 229 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 4: look into having an abortion. 230 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 3: Now. 231 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: However, anybody feels about that. The procedure itself, as it 232 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: is performed, would maximize the potential that the egg would 233 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: be removed along with the contents of the uterus, even 234 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: if it was in the Philippian tube. There was that possibility, 235 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: and that was worth considering because in that frame of mind, 236 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: you want to be able to do everything you can 237 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 2: to ensure that you don't die. Because the id had 238 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: already been taken out and potentially there was damage to 239 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: the uterus, so continuing a pregnancy anyway is risky. I 240 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: looked into making an appointment for the procedure because my 241 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: home state of Georgia had pulled back because this state 242 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 2: has done a very good job of restricting access to abortions. 243 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 2: The amount of appointments that were available were slim, but 244 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: I made one regardless, and the time waiting to get one, 245 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: of course, there's that fear that it could rupture at 246 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: any second if it is atopic pregnancy. But it didn't 247 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 2: matter because the night before my appointment, I sat on. 248 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 3: My toilet. 249 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: As the entire contents of my uterus empty, and I 250 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: had a very painful miscarriage. 251 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 3: This was about six weeks. 252 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: In and before that I had been flooded with those 253 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: happy hormones that you get in the first trimester, the 254 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: very intensely euphoric feelings you have being in the beginning 255 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 2: of a pregnancy because you're supposed to write, you're you're 256 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: supposed to care for this baby, so you're very happy, 257 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: and so it means that the mother will fight for it. 258 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: And when the miscarriage happened, it shoots your body full 259 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 2: of cortisol. I went to my appointment the next day anyway, 260 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: as I'm on the table preparing myself because I'd had 261 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: an idea that it was a miscarriage, but I wanted 262 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: to go either way because it meant i'd get an ultrasound. 263 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: I want to see what's going on. I want to 264 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: know about my health. And when I got there and 265 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 2: they did the ultrasound and they said, we cannot perform 266 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 2: an abortion. There is no pregnancy here. And looking at 267 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 2: the screen, there was a void in my uterus. 268 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 3: There was a little nugget sized void. 269 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 2: Now, having a miscarriage does not mean the egg is gone. 270 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: A miscarriage means that the lining of your uterus and 271 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: whatever the contents are with it are gone. An abortion 272 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: would have pulled more out, whereas this is just a 273 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 2: normal flushing of the lining and all those other contents 274 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: does not include whatever may or may not be in 275 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: the Philippian too. So the nurse who was speaking to 276 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: me looked at me nervously and said, okay, because you 277 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: had an ID, because this is how happened, you need 278 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: to know that you are at high risk of internal 279 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: bleeding if this or worder rupture. You need to do 280 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: some research on ectopic pregnancies. And she put the fear 281 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: into me at that point, and I went home and 282 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: I just started reading on it because now I am 283 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 2: a sea without a life fest I don't have the 284 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 2: assurance that I could have had the egg pulled out. 285 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 2: And it's at this point just a waiting game. And 286 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: the waiting game took two weeks. I'm very glad she 287 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: told me to do that because as I was researching, 288 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: I found out that if you're bleeding internally, it feels 289 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 2: like you have to go to the bathroom, but you'll 290 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 2: sit in the bathroom and you can't go to the bathroom. 291 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: It's painful, it's a pressure. And at that point my 292 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 2: fallopian too hit ruptured and I'm sitting on the toilet 293 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: at two am at my boyfriend's house, and in my mind, 294 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: I said, this much pain means something's wrong. 295 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 3: I need to get to the hospital. 296 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: Now. 297 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 3: I sit in the waiting room. 298 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: For four hours. I'm getting very dizzy. This was COVID time, 299 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: so my boyfriend's outside the window watching me as I'm 300 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: sitting in a wheelchair trying not to not off. It 301 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: was terrifying. When I was taken into the hospital. Finally, 302 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: it was another probably eight hours before I could actually 303 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: have surgery. They had to take me into a room 304 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: to get an ultrasound to show bleeding, which was so terrible, 305 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: and I screamed so much because they had to do 306 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: an internal ultrasound. It was actually it was actually kind 307 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: of funny. I'm I'm grabbing the sides of. 308 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 3: The journey, screaming, bloody murder. 309 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: But then the poor the poor woman who is what 310 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: I can only assume was a resident in the sort 311 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: of pregnancy wing is listening to me scream and. 312 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 3: Clearly like shaken up by it. 313 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 2: She's young, and I'm screaming, but I'm going don't worry, 314 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 2: don't worry, just keep going, just keep going. 315 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 3: It's fine, it's fine. 316 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 5: I just I just kept telling her to keep going, 317 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 5: and it was not reassuring her at all, So she 318 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 5: left and had to pull in a much more mature 319 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 5: nurse who's clearly gotten many years under her belt. 320 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: This woman came in and did the thing, got it 321 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 2: done great, confirmed that I had internal bleeding, but I 322 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: still had to lay there for eight hours, slowly dying, 323 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 2: trying to get me into surgery. And this should have 324 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 2: been a red flag. My reaction to it was nothing. 325 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 2: The nurses even said, wow, you're handling this really well, 326 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: and I was just numb. I think at that point 327 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: was when my brain started to shield me from emotions. 328 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: It was forcing me to freeze because that was the 329 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 2: only way to keep me safe. Otherwise I'd go mad. 330 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: I would have to feel the pain, that I didn't 331 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 2: want to feel, which was I essentially lost a child 332 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 2: and I might die. Because whether or not I had 333 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 2: wanted to get pregnant, whether or not I wasn't ready, 334 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: whether or not I was prepared, it still happened. And 335 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: my body had already flooded me with that happy hormone 336 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: that when it shoved the cortisol into my body, it 337 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 2: just shut down the part that could have processed it. 338 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: And the added cortisol of almost I just completely. 339 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 3: Wiped my ability to. 340 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: Healthily process my emotions, and that's what started the decline 341 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 2: into what eventually became a mental breakdown. The surgery to 342 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: repair the damage that had caused when the egg ruptured 343 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 2: my Philippian tube was that I lost my left Philippian 344 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: tube as well as a majority of the left side 345 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: of my uterus. I lost a large part of my 346 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: reproductive system. Looking back now, I can confidently say that 347 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: what I was experiencing after this was postpartum. I should 348 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: have been given information leaving the hospital that would have 349 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: told me that I was at massive risk of mental 350 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 2: health issues. Because whether or not you've given birth to 351 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: a child, or lost a child early in your pregnancy, 352 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: or any time throughout your pregnancy, whether it is miscarriage, abortion, 353 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: ec topic pregnancy, however it happens, you have the same 354 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 2: chemical drop and flood with stress hormones that can cause 355 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: that massive state of depression. And again the signs that 356 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 2: I should have been looking for were numbness, because after 357 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: I was out of the hospital, my partner and I 358 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 2: both decided to try and move on from it and 359 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 2: not talk about it much more for us to be 360 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: able to have a time of rest and to focus 361 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 2: on my body healing. 362 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 3: But it never got revisited. 363 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 2: And because of that, my numbness turned down into hiding, 364 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 2: and I took job after job after job and worked 365 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 2: and worked and worked, and essentially just never let myself 366 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 2: sit in a sadness that I was refusing to feel 367 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: or even acknowledge. And then barely a month after that, 368 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: I was working on a show in Hawaii and my 369 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 2: partner was there with me, and we decided to visit 370 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: a beach on my last day before work started. At 371 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 2: this point, I had healed from my laparoscopic surgery and 372 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: thought that I was a okay to get in the ocean, 373 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: and we jumped in and as I was swimming, I 374 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: realized I'm getting fatigued very quickly, and what I thought 375 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 2: had healed in my abdomen was no longer working. My 376 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: abs were seizing, I was cramping, and I could not 377 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 2: keep myself above water. I started bobbing, and my partner 378 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 2: was looking at me and his face was instant panic 379 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: and that I cannot get myself upright to even get 380 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: on my back and float my way back. I see 381 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 2: my boyfriend look behind me and his eyes go wide 382 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 2: because as we're trying to figure out what to do, 383 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 2: a large wave is coming up behind me, and in 384 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 2: that split second, he grabs my arm. I see him 385 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: go under and he essentially flips me over his head 386 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 2: and into the wave so that. 387 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 3: It will push me to the shore. It did. 388 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 2: It also tumbled me across some very sharp rocks, and 389 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 2: I bounced my way back to the sand. I am 390 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: coughing up water and I was very close to drowning. 391 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: And I think that essentially like sealed the deal on 392 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: my mental health decline, because I I had just almost died, 393 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 2: and now, after a month of healing and feeling like 394 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 2: I'm returning to normal, it happens again. And when that happened, 395 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 2: that was when I started getting more agitated, I could 396 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 2: tell that little things were starting to push my buttons 397 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 2: more than they would not so much at first, but 398 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: as time went on we were laughing about it. 399 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: At parties. 400 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 4: He and I would tell the story about how he 401 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 4: saved my life and it was so wild and wow, 402 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 4: it was a close one. 403 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 2: But making it a joke meant that I never re 404 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: examined the fact that I was out in the middle 405 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 2: of the ocean and could have just been lost. 406 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 3: Forever. 407 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: After that, still taking job after job after job, my 408 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: sleep started to become erratic. My mood shifted. I would 409 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 2: at times, when presented with something that would bother me, 410 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: I would freeze and I didn't know why, and over 411 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 2: the course of six months it became more frequent I 412 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: would sit down and just start weeping over things that 413 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: were inconsequential, a change in the schedule, someone forgot to 414 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: call me little things. Now I know that this was 415 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 2: an anxiety cycle. My brain was pushing me into fight 416 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 2: flight freeze, and in those moments it was freeze and 417 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: staying still meant that nothing could get me. My partner 418 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 2: at the time was confused and concerned because this was 419 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 2: not like me. And I just could not connect the 420 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: dots because I had, I guess considered myself healed from 421 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 2: everything that happened before, So what was this that was 422 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: happening now. I already healed and got out of the hospital. 423 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: I've been saved from the ocean. There's no reason to 424 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: think that this has anything to do with them. And 425 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: then in February twenty twenty two, I was on a 426 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 2: trip with my partner and his family and the subject 427 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: of kids is brought up, and it got a bit 428 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: heated between my partner and his mom. Look, I get it, 429 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 2: they want grandkids. He wants kids. 430 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 3: Hey, I want kids. 431 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 2: We talked about adopting if I wasn't able to, but 432 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: she didn't know that, and she was pushing. He was pushing, 433 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: and eventually it got heated enough to the point where 434 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 2: he said she can't have kids, which essentially I had 435 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 2: told him, but it had been shown to me that 436 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: that wasn't true. I had told myself that, but then 437 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: I got pregnant. I could have had kids. 438 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 3: And I could still, but it would be. 439 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 2: So much harder if I wanted. In those few words, 440 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 2: he was right, but it it broke something in me. 441 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: I wasn't in the room at the time, I could 442 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: hear all of this happening. I just started crying, and 443 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 2: it was the first time that I had cried about 444 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 2: that at all. I didn't cry at the hospital, I 445 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 2: didn't cry when I miscarried, I didn't cry anytime after that. 446 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: But when confronted with the reality, I broke. What happened 447 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: after that that full day of crying was that I believe, 448 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 2: at least my therapist and I both believe that my 449 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 2: brain did everything it could to hide that emotion from me, 450 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 2: and it got pushed down one more time. A month 451 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 2: after that, I found myself in the middle of a flashback, 452 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: and something so small just was a trip wire to 453 00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,239 Speaker 2: a mine. My brain did what it always does, what 454 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: it normally does for humans in general, is when there 455 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: is something that is a perceived danger, it will flood 456 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: you with enough fear to make you act. And unfortunately, 457 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 2: because your brain has to keep flooding you with more 458 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 2: fear if you keep getting retraumatized, such as possibly near 459 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: death experiences that keep on happening, I found myself flooded 460 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 2: with enough fear that I became essentially manic. It was 461 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: early morning at a time when humans are generally filled 462 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: with stress hormones, anyways to wake you up. He wakes 463 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: up to me grabbing all of my things to get 464 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: out of there because I am feeling like I'm in 465 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 2: danger though there is no danger. And as I'm packing 466 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: my things and I don't realize he's awake, he grabs 467 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: my arm. And when you're feeling those types of emotions 468 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: and that much sense of danger, your brain unfortunately wants 469 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: to attach it to something, and it attached it to him. 470 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: And I ripped my arm away and was immediately terrified 471 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: with somebody that I loved so much. 472 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 3: And I ran out of the apartment. 473 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: I don't even remember driving home, And do you remember 474 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 2: giving home to a bunch of missed calls? I'm sure 475 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 2: it was confusing. I didn't know what was going on. 476 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 2: All I knew was I was in danger, and I 477 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: hid in my room with the lights off for two days. 478 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: I didn't sleep with that amount of fear running through 479 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: my body. And what I know now, which I just 480 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: still didn't know for a few months after, was that 481 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 2: forty percent of women who lose a pregnancy early on 482 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 2: will experience depression, anxiety, and those sorts of things. If 483 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 2: it's an a topic loss where the woman almost dies. 484 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: It was something like sixty to seventy percent will experience that, 485 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: and if you do not get help, it has a 486 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: high likelihood. 487 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 3: Of turning into PTSD. And I did not know that. 488 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: Nobody said anything to me. I got discharged from the 489 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: hospital and was like, you're fine, go home. What a 490 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 2: disservice to women who just went through a terrible, horrible thing, 491 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 2: Whether or not they wanted the pregnancy, it still ravages 492 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: your body to then have no support, no help to 493 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 2: understand what's going on in their body, to understand that 494 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: those instances where I was freezing and didn't know why 495 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 2: I was a survival response that shouldn't have happened and 496 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: should have been another red flag at this point point, 497 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 2: the flashback happened, but it didn't stop after those two 498 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 2: days because I had to go back to work and 499 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: worked overnights. And one thing I didn't know about when 500 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: you are experiencing that level of stress, that level of 501 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: survival mode, my body felt as if I was in 502 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: danger and needed to run, but I wasn't running, and 503 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 2: so my heart rate is up. I'm having heart palpitations 504 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: but not only that I couldn't eat. My body was 505 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 2: telling me there's no time to eat, you have to run. 506 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 2: I tried to eat, I tried to force things into 507 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: I could not swallow. And this went on for two 508 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 2: weeks as I'm working. In that two weeks, I lost 509 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: fifteen pounds. I was having such bad heart palpitations that 510 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 2: my therapist, who I had immediately scheduled when the flashback 511 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 2: was happening. Thank goodness, I had the wherewithal at that 512 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 2: point to say something's wrong. And I think it was 513 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: actually my ex who said that. He said something is wrong, 514 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 2: and it clicked. It pulled me out of it for 515 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 2: a second to be like, oh, no, something is wrong. 516 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: And I didn't know it this whole time. And sadly 517 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: it was ravaging my body to a point that I 518 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 2: probably won't ever bounce back from. 519 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 3: Even from the. 520 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 2: Time that I was fighting the tumor, I was being 521 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 2: forced to freeze. I didn't want to. When I had 522 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 2: the miscarriage and needed to sit with it, I ran, 523 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: I went back to work, and when my body was 524 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 2: making me freeze. Later when I would shut down, it 525 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: was trying to tell me you need to. 526 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 3: Stop, you need to pause. You need to sit with this, 527 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 3: and so I did. 528 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 2: I took off work for four months. I stopped trying 529 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 2: to overanalyze what had happened, and I was journaling like 530 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 2: crazy because I wanted to figure it out. I wanted 531 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 2: to solve the problem. And then I told myself stop, 532 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: go to the beach. And my best friend took me. 533 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 2: We got in a car. She's a queen for telling 534 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 2: me if you have to cry, cry, if you want 535 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 2: to go have fun, let's go have fun. But I'll 536 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 2: cry with you. I'll have fun with you. And we 537 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 2: didn't even realize that we had scheduled that trip to 538 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 2: the beach on a week that ended in Mother's Day. 539 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 2: But I think that was perfect. I think that that 540 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 2: was the time that I realized that my body wasn't 541 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: my enemy. My body wasn't trying to kill me. My 542 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 2: body was trying to tell me how to take care 543 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 2: of it. And that was when I really understood that 544 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 2: we were a team. 545 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 3: And yeah, that's where I am now. 546 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 2: I mean, it's been a journey, it will continue to 547 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 2: be a journey. I'm not one hundred percent. I feel 548 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 2: so much happier, and I think that having gotten through 549 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 2: all of this all of these near death experiences. I'm 550 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 2: so proud of myself and I feel so much stronger, 551 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 2: and I feel like I'll be able to navigate some 552 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 2: of the harder things that I know that are coming 553 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 2: around the corner, and those milestones that I will hit 554 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: in my life, I'll be able to handle them healthily 555 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 2: and I'll be able to come out of them even stronger. 556 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is a live again Joining me for 557 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: a conversation about today's story are my other Alive Against 558 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: story producers Lauren Vogelbaum, Nicholas Dakowski, and Brent Dye, And 559 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. I don't know how to 560 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: begin with this. 561 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 6: This is a tough one one. 562 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, the story was extremely overwhelming. I know Jessica, I've 563 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: known her for years and I didn't know about this, and. 564 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 6: This close to her chest she did. 565 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,439 Speaker 7: Let's talk about it. I mean, I think it's all 566 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 7: I think because I'm gonna I'm I mean, I was 567 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 7: telling Dan and Lauren in the car, like I'm sitting 568 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 7: here googling, like, what's an epic pregnancy? 569 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 2: What? 570 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: You know? 571 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 7: I didn't understand any of it, you know. Yeah, I'm 572 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 7: fifty seven years old. Talk about her Oh yeah, and 573 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 7: and people who are even dumber than me are writing 574 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 7: the laws on this stuff. You know what I mean. 575 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know about freeze. I had never I've heard 576 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: of fight and fight or flight, but I didn't know 577 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: about the aspect of trauma that causes this freeze response. 578 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's fight, flight, freeze and fall. Yeah, because that's 579 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 6: the that's the other one. 580 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: What's fun. 581 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 6: The fawn is effectively like appealing to the source of danger. 582 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 8: Fun is more like if the tiger is about to 583 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 8: eat you, you go like, oh, tiger, but your stripes 584 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 8: are real pretty today, and I can make the steak 585 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 8: for you just the way that you like it. 586 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's it's yeah, you know, it's the the 587 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 6: attack dog coming at you and picking up a stick 588 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 6: and going, hey, do you want to play? We can 589 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 6: play well this. 590 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: Jessica talks a lot about how she became frozen. She 591 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: created this narrative that everything was fine to protect herself 592 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: from this unbearable pain and grief, and it was heartbreaking 593 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: to hear. You know, it's a very hard story to 594 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: listen to. But her perspective, with like this numbness, it 595 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 1: helped me to understand in a way that I maybe 596 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: didn't understand before how ongoing trauma works. So not just 597 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: the singular trauma and the PTSD they might come from that, 598 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: but like time after time after time, she faced death 599 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: again and again and again, and the stacking of those 600 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: traumas over time resulted in this sort of eventual breakdown. 601 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: And it made me wonder about so many people who 602 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,439 Speaker 1: again don't have the resources necessarily or they've had these 603 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: stacked traumas thing, you know, bad thing after bad thing 604 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,720 Speaker 1: after bad thing keep happening. I talk to my son 605 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: Roman sometimes because he's somebody who bottles up his emotions 606 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: and he has trouble like finding ways to let them out, 607 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: and he'll snap, He'll he'll get to a point where 608 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: he'll have a breakdown, and so I use metaphors. I'm like, 609 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: you know, you blow up the balloon and it keeps 610 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: getting more full of air. You got to let some out, 611 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: You got to find a way to let some out, 612 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: or else it's going to pop eventually. But it just 613 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: dawn on me how somebody who you know very well, 614 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: who's right next to you, you don't even know how 615 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: much stuff they're carrying. 616 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 7: Well, particularly like Jessica. She's always struck me as such 617 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 7: a strong person. You know that you would never her 618 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 7: know that she was dealing with this. 619 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Jessica is. I mean, she's a fighter, she 620 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 6: really is. I mean she's just like a really strong 621 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 6: willed human being. Frequently, people who have, yeah, who have 622 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 6: been sort of forced through a number of traumas or 623 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 6: just like the you know, living in poverty, you know, 624 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 6: having to work like three jobs to feed the kids, 625 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 6: get in this like fighter mindset where it's like, this 626 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 6: is fine, I can do this. This is fine, Like, 627 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,479 Speaker 6: you know, this is nothing the thing that I'm dealing 628 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 6: with right now. And I think that it's it's a 629 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 6: defense mechanism after a period of time of going through 630 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 6: it enough where it's like I'm just going to get 631 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 6: through the other end of this. 632 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 8: I can't deal with this right now, so I'm putting 633 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,359 Speaker 8: it over here and right and then over there. Right 634 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 8: does overflow? 635 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 6: Yeah, And just because you're not paying attention, or just 636 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 6: because you're trying to like look past the problem or 637 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 6: get to the other side of it, doesn't mean that 638 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 6: the problem is not like, doesn't mean that the problem 639 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 6: is not beyond your control. 640 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 7: Well, I think it was interesting how she was unaware 641 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 7: of it. You know, they're cracking jokes about the drowning incident, 642 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 7: and she said it was a long time after that 643 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 7: that She's like, the reason I'm having this breakdown is 644 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 7: because I have frozen myself in that moment. 645 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: We should talk about the systemic failure here too. 646 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, we could. 647 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: Set up with a quote the Jessica said. Yeah, she 648 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: said that this is really shocking statistic, but she said 649 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: forty percent of women who lose a pregnancy early on 650 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 1: experienced depression and anxiety, and that number jumps to sixty 651 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: to seventy percent for ectopic losses. And if I'm treated, 652 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: it can easily turn into PTSD. 653 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 8: Yeah, this is one of those really yeah, systemic failures 654 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 8: of our healthcare system where like, okay, so like I 655 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 8: cannot empathize with this story. I could sympathize with it, 656 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 8: but you know, I don't have kids. I don't want kids. 657 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 8: I've never been pregnant. I've never had a reproductive related 658 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 8: medical emergency. But I can tell you that the misinformation 659 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 8: and disinformation that you receive from the medical establishment, as 660 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 8: a person who can get pregnant, it is infuriating. It 661 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 8: would be infuriating if it were merely your health and 662 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 8: welfare on the line, But like the fact that this 663 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,879 Speaker 8: miss and disinformation often exists because someone has either made 664 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 8: a judgment about you or politicized an issue that could 665 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 8: kill you. It is breathtaking. It takes my breath away, 666 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 8: how angry that makes me. It's a larger issue with healthcare, 667 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 8: certainly in the United States, probably a lot of places 668 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 8: where healthcare professionals are overloaded. They don't always have the 669 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 8: time to sit with the patient that they would like 670 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 8: and to explain what the possible outcomes of whatever is 671 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 8: going on with them could be. You know, they're very overworked. 672 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 8: But part of it is this separate issue where like 673 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 8: in the United States, your prognosis is worse if you 674 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 8: are a woman, or not white, or have a BMI 675 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 8: of all ridiculous, irrelevant things that is over a certain number, 676 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 8: one in five United States adults has experienced discrimination in 677 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 8: the healthcare system. And that discrimination can be anywhere from 678 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 8: like merely annoying, like merely an annoying part of part 679 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 8: of your day, to actually deadly and not knowing which 680 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 8: one it's going to be when you're having an issue. 681 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 8: You're just a human person with an issue in your body. 682 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 8: You're like, can you fix this? And they're like, well, technically, 683 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 8: because the problem is in your fallopian. 684 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 3: Tubes, no what. 685 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 6: You know. 686 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 7: This story was probably the hardest one for me to 687 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 7: listen to. It was just so graphically painful, and I 688 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 7: just found myself so unknowledgeable about what she was talking about. 689 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,800 Speaker 7: I had to go look up so many of the terms, 690 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 7: so many things that she was going through. And I 691 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 7: don't know if it's because I'm a man. I don't 692 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 7: know if it's because my wife and I didn't experience 693 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 7: any of these things when we were pregnant. I was 694 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 7: assuming maybe it's like when somebody gets a kind of 695 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 7: cancer you're not familiar with, and you learn all the 696 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,720 Speaker 7: medical terminology and all the processes. I know that Jessica 697 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 7: had to look some of the stuff up herself when 698 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 7: she was going. 699 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 2: Through it, but. 700 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 7: It exposed really how informed I am as a citizen. 701 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 7: And you can't expect people to understand everything about every 702 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 7: medical practice. But I think it has been politicized, you know, 703 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 7: and and women's healthcare has been politicized, And I understand 704 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 7: the argument coming from the pro life movement. I understand 705 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 7: how if you think that that's a soul, you've got 706 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 7: to save that life. 707 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: I get it. 708 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,319 Speaker 7: But Jessica has a soul too, and what she was 709 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 7: put through, and then the fear that her Filippian tube 710 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 7: could rupture at any time, and then the horror of 711 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,799 Speaker 7: having the miscarriage at her home and having to witness that, 712 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 7: and just the psychological terror of going through something like that, 713 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 7: the images that are burned into your mind. I'm sure 714 00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,399 Speaker 7: to think that people as ill informed or less as 715 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,280 Speaker 7: me are making these the laws. 716 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: There's also this thing that struck me about Jessica's story 717 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,800 Speaker 1: that is a bigger, even bigger systemic or cultural issue, 718 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: is that she didn't trust her own body. She kind 719 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: of at the end says, you know, it was this 720 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: huge realization that my body is not my enemy. My 721 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: body is trying to tell me something. My body's trying 722 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,439 Speaker 1: to tell me how to take care of it. And 723 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: this separation between mind and body that's so pervasive throughout 724 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: our culture. It's like if we get sick, it's like 725 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: it's separate from us. Or if we have are we 726 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: try to train our bodies or medicate them or do 727 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: all of these external things as opposed to just listening 728 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: to our bodies. She had shut down, and she was 729 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 1: in this state of freeze, and she was overworked, and 730 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: god knows, the film industry on top of that. I 731 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: can't imagine, you know, the breakdowns that come just from 732 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: working in the film industry when you go to knights 733 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: and you're working crazy hours, and on top of all 734 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: the trauma she had experienced, there's that sleep deprivation and 735 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,880 Speaker 1: the pressure of that job. I can't even imagine it. 736 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 1: But this sort of idea that her body was not 737 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 1: her enemy, it was not something to be put aside 738 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: or repressed or but something that she learned to listen to. 739 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was huge. 740 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, And it's really striking in this case because the 741 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:13,240 Speaker 8: issues that she was describing are all literally herself. Cancer 742 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 8: is a part of you. Cancer is more personal than 743 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 8: a lot of other things. 744 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 3: It is. 745 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 8: It's not a foreign body, it's your own selves. A 746 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 8: pregnancy and a topic pregnancy is part of your natural body. 747 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 8: And it goes to show that we need to be 748 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 8: treating scientifically and politically health issues as health issues. 749 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: And so much misinformation leading up to that of how 750 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: she was the idea that she couldn't have children, Yeah, 751 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: which was not true. 752 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 6: Right. 753 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,479 Speaker 1: All of these people that we talked to that face 754 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:52,799 Speaker 1: these adversities, that almost die and then find through the 755 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,600 Speaker 1: resilience or whatever. It's always through the compassion of others, 756 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 1: and it's always a lesson about compassion. It seems like 757 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: the most extreme ones have found forgiveness in the most 758 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 1: extreme places where it seems like it would be impossible 759 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: to find. Not that they not that any of the 760 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,520 Speaker 1: system needs forgiving. I'm not saying that at all. I'm 761 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,359 Speaker 1: just saying that the overwhelming takeaway from all of these 762 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: stories that I keep hearing myself is that we need 763 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: each other, that we are not alone, and that the 764 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 1: only thing that makes us makes life worth living is 765 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 1: this compassion, and compassion is the saving grace. I don't 766 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: know how to spread that idea of compassion beyond this room. 767 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't know how to spread it through this podcast. 768 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,760 Speaker 1: I'm hoping that that is the function of this podcast, 769 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: that people go, fuck, we're all going to die. No, 770 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: none of us know when our time's up. In the meantime, 771 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: let's be kind to each other, Let's not be alone, 772 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: Let's hold each other and be there for each other 773 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 1: and anyway, that's my hope for this show is that 774 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,240 Speaker 1: it actually is unifying. 775 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 7: Find a place how we can be helpful rather than ideological. 776 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, and giving grace instead of passing judgment on 777 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,800 Speaker 8: you know, on yourself, as well as which is possibly 778 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,800 Speaker 8: the hardest part of it, but right, like getting someone's 779 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:15,279 Speaker 8: story and listening to why an issue is important to them. 780 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,319 Speaker 1: Next time on Alive Again, we meet Nate dorm who 781 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,919 Speaker 1: spent his early life unable to picture himself living past 782 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: the age of twenty five. Nita's missed it until a 783 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: violent storm at sea turned his worst fears into reality, 784 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 1: leaving him shipwrecked off the coast of Cuba. 785 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 9: As soon as the boat hits the wave and dips down, 786 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,080 Speaker 9: there's a small pause. And I cleaned the chain on 787 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,160 Speaker 9: this the cleat right there and as fast as I could, 788 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 9: and the water hit me and caught two of my 789 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 9: fingers between the chain and the cleat. 790 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,359 Speaker 1: Now the whole way to the boat. 791 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 9: Is crushing my fingers, And then I realized that that 792 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,400 Speaker 9: was the moment I've been dreaming about my entire life. 793 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die 794 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski and Lauren vogelbah music by Ben love It, 795 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,720 Speaker 1: additional music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew 796 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,960 Speaker 1: Frederick and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for 797 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,840 Speaker 1: additional production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. K 798 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,359 Speaker 1: Ali and Noames Griffin. Today's episode was edited by Mike 799 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: w Anderson, mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm 800 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: your host Dan Bush. Special thanks to Jessica Sanchez for 801 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,360 Speaker 1: sharing her story. Alive Again is a production of I 802 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,200 Speaker 1: Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative 803 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: near death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. 804 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:41,280 Speaker 1: Please email us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com. 805 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: That's a l I V E A g A I 806 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,800 Speaker 1: N P R O j E C T at gmail 807 00:51:48,840 --> 00:52:07,960 Speaker 1: dot com.