WEBVTT - Here Come the Warm Feels 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. A production of 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:13.880 I Heart Radios has to works. Hey, welcome to Stuff 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.360 to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.959 I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're going to be looking 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.400 at a subject that that I started thinking about in 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.440 terms of a broader question, and the question is this, 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:32.680 are there unexplored frontiers in understanding what human emotions are? 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.080 When you think about human emotions, that that is something 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.519 that's studied by psychology and sometimes by neuroscience. But it 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.199 seems like territory where we just assume we've got all 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.360 the basics down right. We know what all we know happy, sad, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.360 we know contempt, we know disgust. You know, there's a 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.000 broad range of basic emotions, and we just think it's 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.640 intuitive that, yeah, we we've got names for all of them, 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.800 we understand basically what they are, we've felt them before. 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.280 But there is of course something that we all know 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:07.080 that that there is a a feeling understanding gap that 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.399 we can feel things without necessarily understanding what they are 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.240 or why we're feeling them. It's why we're sometimes like 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.400 surprised by our own emotions, Like when you discover without 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.240 realizing it, that you've been falling in love with someone, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.240 or you discover without realizing it that someone actually really 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.680 gets on your nerves and you know it's finally all 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.319 coming into focus, or you know, all kinds of feelings 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.080 like that that you can feel for a long time 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.520 before you have any kind of cognitive awareness or ability 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.320 to describe or put a name to it. And it 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.800 makes you wonder if there are whole emotional states that 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.240 we go through. We feel them, but we don't necessarily 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.360 have a language for them, or or an understanding of 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.800 their relationship to external stimuli and the symptoms they produce 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.280 in the body and the mind. Yeah, there's a great 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.560 deal of complexity to this because on one hand, yeah, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.000 there's just the awareness of self being able to enter 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.160 at least into moments of awareness, moments of self awareness. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.919 And then there's of course this idea of being aware 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.440 of your awareness and how that changes your ability to 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.480 self reflect and you know, varying degrees of awareness as well. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.520 But uh, you know, I was I was thinking a 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.240 little bit on this, and I feel like, to a 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.680 certain extent, it's kind of like transparent anatomical overlays that 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.640 you'll find in like an anatomy book, you know, where 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.560 like the base is the skeleton, and then you have 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.079 like a transparent overlay that then puts um I don't know, 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.679 the circulatory system, and then you you know, add other 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.440 systems or muscular layers on top of that. You're getting 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.280 very tool album art on me, right, right, I know 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.600 your mind. Obviously this has also been a explored in 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.360 in tool album art as well, yes, by the excellence 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.600 of the excellent visionary artist Alex Gray, of course. But 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.040 there is actually something pretty interesting about that art, which 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.120 is that it layers real anatomical strata of things you 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.960 would see like muscles and blood, vessels, nerves and all that, 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.000 with other things that are non physical. They're you know, 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.240 abstracted layers on sort of concepts of the soul on 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.440 top of the body and another transparent overlay, right. And 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.840 so I can't help but think about that in terms 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:17.200 of feelings, language, and awareness, because there's certainly the experience 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.760 of an emotional state that we have, and then there's 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.480 another transparent page that we can put on top of that, 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.239 representing like a person shaped word cloud that provides a 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.040 definition and an analysis as well of what I'm feeling, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.240 though perhaps uh, you know, we also needed a second 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.200 overlay to really have captured that second part, you know 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.960 what that what our culture is saying about what we 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.880 think we're feeling and how we should feel about it. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:43.600 And then on top of all of this, we have 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.480 awareness and the awareness of awareness, and the knowledge that 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.720 this entire page is going to turn that this state, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.840 whatever it is, if it is going to be fleeting, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:55.840 no matter how much we want it to last forever 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.000 or how much we dread that it will last forever. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.000 And I think it can sometimes go something like this, Right, 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.560 I feel something, and then my language gives that feeling 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.880 a name, say sadness, And then my culture tells me 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.400 that say sadness, that sadness that I'm feeling is inappropriate 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.320 for my gender or inappropriate for a given situation, etcetera, 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.280 and um. And then I yearn for other labeled emotional 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:25.159 states and somehow this uh, this linguistic tag does not 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.520 summon the emotion I want. It doesn't generated out of nowhere, 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.840 and then I'm sad and ashamed for being sad. Um. 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.240 So basically the short of it is, there's there's this 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.120 relationship between how we label our emotions and the emotions 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.360 we feel. Uh. And also it does that thing that 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.919 that language does. Right, We're able to tag something for 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.400 further study. We're able to take something that is difficult 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.400 to explain, we put a single label on it, and 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.000 then we can discuss that label in comparison to other subjects, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.359 other examples, etcetera. Well, Yeah, once you name something, you 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.279 can start to figure out what it is and what 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.000 it is not. Uh. If you didn't have a name 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.039 for the thing, it's a lot harder to start trying 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.599 to describe the characteristics it does or doesn't possess. Yeah, 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.120 And like as a as a parent, I have encountered this. 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.240 You know, where my son is feeling something and either 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.800 you know, he doesn't have the self awareness and self 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.000 reflection to really think about it yet, or or perhaps 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.839 he doesn't even have a good word, a good description 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.320 for what it is he's feeling, and you have to 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.800 sort of try and try and walk them through what 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.080 they're feeling and try to get them to identify it 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:41.000 so that you can discuss it so you can get 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.159 to the bottom of it to whatever extent you can. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.880 I think that naming of things, especially naming of internal 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.360 states can have tremendous and often well tremendous positive and 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:54.159 negative power. One example of positive power I think of 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.480 is I'm not going to say who, but just somebody 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.560 I know. At one point when they became aware of 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.440 the cycle logical concept of rumination, uh, you know, the 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.159 process of repeatedly going over cycles of negative thoughts in 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:13.520 your mind and entertaining worst possible scenarios. Just becoming aware 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.960 that that was a concept that was already known of 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.080 and had a name had a lot of power for 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:24.360 this person to help them overcome when it was affecting them, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.960 because suddenly they didn't just think, oh, I'm doing this 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.920 terrible thing again. They thought, I'm ruminating. This is a 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.280 psychological symptom that's negative, and they felt it was easier 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.679 to break out of the cycle after knowing the word 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.200 for it exactly. And it come back to sadness for example, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.080 like it's one thing that's to realize I am feeling sad, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.560 but then language allows us then to focus in on 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.640 more specific versions of that, saying, you know, not only 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.360 am I feeling sadness, perhaps I'm feeling the particular sadness 0:06:54.400 --> 0:07:00.160 of loss or rejection or homesickness or defeat or alienation um. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.560 And and then we can we we can better utilize 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.640 our our own minds and even uh resources, either in 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.120 the community or in just sort of the the general 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.400 human um in a world around us, to try and 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.400 figure out how we should react uh and or solve 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.440 the situation at hand. Yeah, exactly. I mean that makes 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.480 me think of another thing you're sort of alluding to there, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.920 which is that when you have a name for an 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.760 internal state, that helps you find other people who also 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.360 experience the internal state because you sort of have a 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.440 common search term or something that you can use to 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.840 get together and figure out Oh okay, and you can 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.600 compare your experiences with others uh. And of course, you know, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.000 again this cuts both ways. I'd say overall, is probably 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.720 a positive thing to have names for internal states like this, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.840 because it can help people find solidarity get advice from 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.640 other people who feel the same way they do. But 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.280 it can also lead to you know, people finding one 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.720 another based on like anger based or you know, negative 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.120 internal states and and building a kind of negative solidarity 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.720 of stoking one another's bad emotions, right, or what happens 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:09.200 when you have a legitimate emotional state, but the terminology 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.760 end up using to describe it is is not helpful, say, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.800 say that you end up using like say, highly religious 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:21.840 terminology to describe these things that in some cases may 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:23.880 not provide a lot of tools for dealing with it. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.120 Like what if you broadly categorize various emotional states as 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.240 being sinful? Um, well, then that means that you're only 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.600 ways of really addressing whatever you're feeling lie within the 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:41.680 religious doctrine that you are in which you're classifying everything, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.080 uh and limits you in that respect. Or believing that 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.720 say a state like depression or something consists of having 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:53.120 a demon which you know you can certainly understand why 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.880 it could feel that way. And yet on the other side, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:00.400 there are examples of personifying negative emotional states that can 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:04.319 be liberating, you know, being able to say, personify one's 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.240 fear and then reject it. So it's it's it's certainly 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.720 when you're talking about human emotional states and our awareness 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.319 of them and our dealings with them, there's a great 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.360 deal of complexity here. There's not necessarily a one size 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.600 fits all. We're not going to be able to unwrap 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.520 all of these questions today, but we will discuss an 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.600 emotional state that has largely gone unnamed, at least in 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.840 the English language. Yeah, at least if this group of 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.680 researchers that we're gonna be talking about today are onto something. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.840 So I came to this topic today of of emotions 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.480 that we don't yet have names for, by reading an 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.560 article and eon by the psychological anthropologist Alan Fisk, who 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.040 is a professor at the University of California, Los Angeles. 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.880 And in this article, Fisk summarizes a bunch of research 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:53.559 that's been going on in the past few years of 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:54.920 a lot a lot of which he's been a co 0:09:55.000 --> 0:10:00.400 author on um, which he believes identifies an extremely imp hortoned, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.640 everyday emotion, not something unusual, but something we all know, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.120 we feel all the time, that's incredibly important to our lives, 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.520 that's been with us all along, but that he argues, 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.600 has not been recognized as distinct and unified as an 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.679 emotion in itself, and instead has been called a lot 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.840 of kind of other things in its different facets. And 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:25.080 the term he uses for this emotion is karma muta 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.080 k a m A m u t A. So what 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.079 exactly is karma muda? As Fisk would argue the term 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:37.239 karmamuda comes from ancient Sanskrit, in which it means moved 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.679 by love. So this emotion of karma muda is a 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.959 social emotion, and Fisk describes it as an emotion evoked 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:50.920 by the sudden intensification of communal sharing. Now, this doesn't 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:53.319 just mean sharing in the sense of like sharing your 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.160 toys or sharing your kitcat bar, or you know, sharing 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.920 the payout from the bank ice uh, though all of 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.880 those could probably be moments that would evoke karmamuda. But 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.080 this is a broader sense of sharing. This is what 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:10.120 Alan Fisk has called another work communal sharing relationships, and 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:14.000 that's briefly defined in one of his papers as relationships 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.640 quote in which participants feel that in some distinctive way 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:24.160 they are equivalent, belong together, care for and trust each other. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.520 So it's sort of like a strengthening of social bonds 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.920 and a signaling of trust and mutual caring. This is 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.559 why you do trust falls at your place to work, right, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.160 you know you would think that this makes me think 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:40.600 of a funny thing I kind of want to come 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.960 back to and later in the episode, which is like 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.880 ways that if this is truly a unified emotional experience 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.479 in the way they're describing ways that it is definitely 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:55.080 exploited in in like in business and in media. One 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:56.800 thing that I know you and I have talked about 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.199 before is all the things that love to tell you 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.800 they're your family, but are not your family, like your 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.600 workplace that says like we're a family, and it's like, 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.240 I understand that can be a nice thing to say, 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.240 like you're trying to say, you know, you should feel 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.079 belonging here, but you know, people actually have families that 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.040 are families. Or you know, if Olive Garden says when 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.760 you're here your family, that there's something in common there. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.000 They're trying to do something to you. What is that 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.040 thing they're trying to do. Yeah, they they they're they're 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.600 co operting the idea of family. Or and here's another one. 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:33.520 The Sawe family that Shank saw Massacre um UH series 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.480 franchise will sometimes pull that one out and they're like, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.240 I don't know, maybe maybe it is, but probably not. 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.080 Oh no, Drayton's being manipulative. One he says that he's 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.360 trying to turn leather Face into a bitter old woman 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.080 hater like he is, but okay, okay, okay. So there 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.240 there are lots of separate emotional states that we recognize 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.880 that Fisk argues actually all share the features of this 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:01.280 one unified thing that he's proposing, this unified state of 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.959 kama muta, and so different examples of words people use 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.040 for this thing that he actually says is all the 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:16.120 same thing is being moved, being touched, team pride, patriotism, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.520 being touched by the spirit burning in the bosom, the 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.640 fields like that, or he says also when evoked by memory, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.440 it's nostalgia. So that's a lot of ground to cover. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.160 I feel, for instance, I feel nostalgic when I think 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.880 about movies from I feel a sense of communal belonging, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.800 when I am saying church, where I'm in a yoga class, 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.480 and when I'm hugging my wife and child, I feel 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.439 something that I might describe as his loved belonging or 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.280 to some extent, you know, structural completeness. Yeah, there are 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.600 obviously a lot of different scenarios here that he's saying 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.880 are all going to evoke this one emotion he's talking about. 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.760 So maybe we should drill down into the details of 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.240 how he describes this emotion and it's emptoms in order 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.280 to understand better what exactly it is he's talking about. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.360 All right, let's roll through it. Well, wait, no, maybe 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:07.920 we should take a break first, and then when we 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.080 come back, we can we can look at the features 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:17.320 he lists. All right, we're back. So we're talking about 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.280 karma muta, and we're gonna begin to roll into the 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:25.480 six features that occur together in this broad categorization of 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.360 emotional states rights, as argued by the anthropologist Allent Fisk. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.840 So there's been a bunch of studies on this. We 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.920 we're gonna look at a few of the studies individually 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.160 and in a moment here, But just to start off 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.640 at the top level, what are the main takeaways? Fisk 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.320 argues that karmamuta is described by six features that occur together, 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.440 and he says, so, first of all, it's evoked by 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:51.880 quote the sudden intensification of communal sharing and again sharing 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.680 this not just like sharing materials, but this thing that 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.880 I mentioned earlier, Situations where participants feel in some distinctive 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.320 way that their equivalent belong together, care for and trust 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.520 each other. Broadly, situations that we describe as examples of 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.880 love and to a certain extent, you could you could 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.000 think of this as a you can think of communion 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.040 as an example of this, right um, or you could 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.320 think of a potluck dinner as an example of this. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.160 You know, I don't know. I guess one of the 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.040 things is that it has to spark that feeling right 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.480 for it to be real. You could have an overly 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.680 ritualized version of anything that is then devoid of the 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.480 emotional residence. It makes me think of the Eddie Izzard 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.920 joke about us singing Hollelujah and the Anglican Church. No, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.640 no offense to Anglicans. You know, I have great love 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.120 for the Anglicans, but you know he's got this whole 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:46.760 bit about them singing hu. I think the point he 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.000 makes is a good one, which is that like something 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:53.960 that's supposed to be an overwhelming outpouring of spontaneous joy, can, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.520 if ritualized in a certain kind of way, become rather drab. Yeah, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.480 that's a good point because on the other end of it, um, 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.280 when people come together in song like that is a 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.280 that is a great way to potentially feel this shared 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.040 emotional state. Absolutely, because we're becoming one voice. Okay, so 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.440 it's evoked by this sudden moment of communal sharing where 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.040 you feel a belonging, a trust, and a love with 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.560 other people. But the next point he says is that 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.360 it very crucially, this emotion is brief. He says, it 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.480 typically lasts less than a minute or two, though it 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.160 can keep repeating in rapid succession, so like you'll get 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.160 a burst of it. It's less than a minute or 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.760 two long. You can do it again, but it's not 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.840 something that you know, lasts all day. And I think 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.960 this is one thing that, uh, that makes it very 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:47.200 important here. It's distinct from love itself the way Fisk 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.760 describes it. Uh. Fisk says, the important distinction is that 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.320 love is an enduring sentiment. It's more like a kind 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.720 of like semi permanent state of affairs that sticks with you, 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.640 but beyond the moment to moment. Yeah, I mean, it's 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.360 always important to remember that the love endears even as 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.400 a variety of emotions play out. Uh. Not to say 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.159 that love is impervious to fleeting emotional states, but it 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:15.320 does not inherently vanish when happiness stades or anger seeps in, etcetera. Yeah, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.800 and that's one of the really interesting and special things 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.440 about love right, that you can like love somebody even 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.840 when you're angry at them or something like that. But 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.399 but in contrast to that, he says, karma muta is 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:32.640 this intense, momentary flare up of emotion that occurs when 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.840 love is shared. So when something happens that signals that 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.720 the sharing of love has intensified. And again, this love 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.000 can be between two people. It can be between a 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.320 deer and a dog, It can be between it. Seriously, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.520 you know all these videos on the Internet of like 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.640 a deer and a dog playing together. In fisks terms, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.520 these are pure karma muta porn. We're we're just watching 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.280 these moments of like of social reciprocal trust and ending 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.080 between you know, species that you might not expect or something. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.639 Or it can be not even that personal. It can 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.920 be between a large group of people who feel solidarity 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.720 and common purpose. A big thing that features into this 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.320 is the invocation of common muda and political context, like 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.960 say in a demonstration or a march, people will often 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.080 feel the exact same symptoms were about to get into 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.000 that that are described as typical of karma muda. This 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.960 you know, burning in the bosom for for a feeling 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.760 of togetherness with all these people who share a common purpose. 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.800 Now on the detail of it being fleeting, uh, I 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.000 wonder if it is fleeting, because like other emotional states, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.560 it kind of eludes awareness. I always come back to 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.560 the Cormick McCarthy quote. I think this was from all 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.120 the Pretty Horses, Uh, that goes quote. If you want 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.000 to see it, you have to see it on its 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.040 own ground. If you catch it, you lose it. And 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.640 where it goes there's no coming back from not even 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.040 God can bring it back. And the metaphor that he's 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:00.720 exploring here is that have a snow flake that you 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.800 cannot catch the snowflake. You can only experience it in 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.760 the moment, and you can't catch or keep it. And 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.040 that's often what it feels like with happiness. Right You're 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.560 feeling good, then you think, hey, I'm feeling good, and 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.840 then you then it begins to run away. You know. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.399 It's like, don't look directly at the happening happiness, or 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.080 you will scare it. Uh. Yeah, I think that's a 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.760 really good point. I mean, one of the things is 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.920 that I don't think you can improve a moment of 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:29.160 happiness by examining it, but I do think by examining 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.720 happiness generally, maybe that can be a good thing. Like 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.679 if if you try to look at any individual moment 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.720 and become analytical about it, it undercuts the emotional power 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.800 of it. But maybe it is good to have a 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.520 pre existing uh understanding or awareness of emotional states that 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:51.080 come from examining previous versions of that emotion. Oh. Absolutely, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.520 I think understanding the fleeting nature of happiness is key 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.879 to being able to have a healthy relationship with happiness. Um, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.600 Like you, you don't get happy by by thinking about 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.000 wanting to be happy, right, But I also don't want 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.800 to make it. I don't want to imply, though, that 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.879 happiness is disrupted by awareness that you would necessarily just 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.359 remain on this happiness high if you weren't able to 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.560 then to self reflect on it, because I don't think 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:23.919 that's the case. I get the impression that these bursts 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.840 of common mouta, if we're going to to use that 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.800 that term, um, they are supposed to be bursts. Yeah, Well, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.520 like all emotions, I mean, all these emotions are fleeting. 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.240 That's what makes again these individual emotions different than these 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.119 longer sentiments or states that we hold in our minds. 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.280 Like love, right, I mean it comes back to sensory 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.080 information as well. It's like when you taste of strawberry, 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.239 you're not happy for six years straight. Following the year 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.879 it's a burst of flavor, a burst of understanding, And 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.960 you know, it makes sense to that our emotional states 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.639 would would follow similar patterns. Okay, what of the next 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.240 four characteristics. So we've got that it's evoked by the 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.919 sudden communal sharing. We've got that it is brief and fleeting. Uh. 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.520 The next thing is, of course, that it feels good. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.680 This emotion is inherently pleasurable, and people seek whenever, whenever 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.320 they're able to repeat it, they want to keep having 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.879 it over and over right, And if you can monetize it, 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.359 all the better, right, No, all the more evil. Um So, 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.280 So it feels good. It's naturally pleasurable, even though, and 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.480 though there's a thing that it's often part of a 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.840 bitter sweet kind of feeling, something that we do have 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.480 a name for, that it feels good even when being 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.919 kind of in the near proximity to or the context 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:46.640 of recognizable negative emotions like sadness. Yeah, we've talked about 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.840 this in the show before in context to say, nostalgia. Um, 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.200 there's something else we talked about recently. They're being like 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.560 the bitter sweet aspect to it. Um was it? Oh 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.920 it was thankfulness? Oh yes, of course gratitude. Yeah, absolutely, 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.800 there's a sense of it is a vulnerability to these moments, uh, 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.480 such as like embracing family members, Like there is like 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.119 this sort of hyper like meta feeling, like all the 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:16.480 all the possibilities, all the potential potential and an actual 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.920 past and future, joys and sadness and tragedies all just 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.119 bundled up into a single snap of the finger. You know, 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.160 you kind of feel all of that at once, which 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.240 can be overwhelming. Like imagine if that didn't that wasn't 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.320 just a burst, that would be I mean, if it 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.320 can be overwhelming even as a burst of emotion. Okay. 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.280 The next thing that the research has found here is 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:43.920 that kamamuda is accompanied by a very consistent, characteristic set 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:48.280 of physical sensations in the body and physical symptoms and behaviors. 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.480 So one is a warm, fuzzy feeling in the center 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.960 of the chest. Another is is tearing up of course 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:00.760 is crying moistenus in the eyes. Another is being choked 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.200 up lump in the throat, which often goes along with 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:08.320 the tears in the eyes. Another is chills or goose bumps. Uh. 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.080 One is a smile or putting, putting a palm on 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.360 the chest. And one is the expression, especially in English 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:19.520 of awe. Yeah. Ah is a big one because when 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.400 we when we we we coup awe at the side 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.040 of a kitten, we are we're generally inviting those among 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:29.520 us to share in this moment with us, or we 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:33.480 are you know, we're signaling solidarity with you when we 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:35.639 with the kitten, with the kitten or the you know, 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:39.360 whatever the cute embodiment happens to be. That's a good point. 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:41.080 We should come back to that in a minute, because 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.680 I feel like cuteness doesn't fit into this framework quite 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.639 as obviously as most of the other things that trigger 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:49.600 it do. But I think there might be good reasons, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.760 and I think you're definitely onto something there. Uh. So 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.840 the next thing is that it actually is a motivating emotion. 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:02.359 It motivates devotion, and Fisk says, uh compassion to communal sharing, 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:07.000 also known as loving kindness. So it generally like what 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:08.920 these studies have found. One of the studies I was 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.520 looking at so is if you show people video of 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.880 two people having like a communal sharing experience that causes 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.199 this emotion in the viewer, the viewer also feels an 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.880 increased sense of community with the two characters, these these 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:27.359 other characters being observed. And then another one is that 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.879 there are common types of expressions across many languages that 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:35.280 that basically translate to something like this. It means like 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:40.159 being moved in its various translations, or being touched in 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:44.320 in various translations. Like that all often refers to something 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:47.000 having to do with this idea. So I want to say, 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:51.240 at first glance, in reading about this, I resonate strongly 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.440 like I know exactly what he's talking about. But I 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:57.840 don't know if it is that we needed a new 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:01.080 term for it. Maybe we did. I'm not sure if 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:04.320 I'm decided on that issue or not, But I'm not 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:06.560 sure what term you would use otherwise, Maybe you could 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:08.600 just try to lump it under one of these sort 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:12.240 of capturing it pre existing things like like feeling moved 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:15.919 or something that might be kind of broader than than 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:20.400 what exactly this is talking about. But this, this experience, 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:23.359 in all of the aspects of it that he lists 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:27.240 feel absolutely real in my own experience, Oh absolutely, the 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:32.160 the the, the emotional experience is certainly real. Any disagreement 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:34.480 we have is just about like, to to what extent 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.159 this categorization is useful, To what extent we can actually 0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:41.080 group all of these things under this big umbrella of 0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:44.119 Kama muda. Yeah, I think I'm undecided about that, but 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.479 we can explore it more as we go on. By 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:48.480 the way, none of this is to be confused with 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:52.480 the Mooda scale. The Mooda scale, yes, which any anyone 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:54.639 out there who is a pro wrestling fan might be 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:59.120 familiar with. Mooda scale is an unofficial means of measuring 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:02.840 how much blood a pro wrestler has bled via blading 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:09.120 or juicing. That's when a professional wrestler will intentionally cut 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.320 their forehead with a razor or sometimes there is more 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:15.879 like a hard juicing technique where it's by actually bumping 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:21.000 into something, but they will intentionally usually uh cut themselves 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:23.800 on the forehead. The blood will flow, the blood will 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:28.000 mix with with sweat and create quite a visual display 0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:30.639 of a bloody face or crimson mask. Is it's sometimes 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:33.320 called I feel like this is not something you're supposed 0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:36.520 to do in the main circuits right um or it's 0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:41.919 not done as much these days, certainly in modern pro 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.720 wrestling companies like mainstream pro wrestling companies, because of course, 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:47.920 there are a number of objections one can make to 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.159 intentionally bleeding all over the place, right, But on the 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:55.040 other hand, it is a highly physical performance and therefore 0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:59.200 people will get busted open accidentally, and sometimes the show 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:01.879 goes on just bite a little blood. Now is the 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.080 Muda scale named after? Does it come from Sanskrit? No, 0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:09.080 it comes basically it's of Japanese origin because it's referring 0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:12.680 to a pro wrestler, legendary pro wrestler out of Japan 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:16.280 by the name of Keji Muto, who would also perform, 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:19.119 especially in the United States, has the Great Muda, And 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:22.520 it's referring in particular to a nineteen nine New Japan 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:27.000 Pro Wrestling match with Hiroshi has in which Muda blades 0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:31.320 and just gets a really brilliant crimson mask all over 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:33.920 his face. His face is just covered in blood and 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:36.800 so a lot of like Kane, Yeah, it does have 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.760 that kind of It reminds one a lot of various um, 0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:44.760 you know, uh, face painting, Uh scenarios, but it has 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:47.120 such an impact on pro wrestling fans of that time 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:50.200 period they kind of decided this would be the starting 0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.680 point for considerations of any blade job. Uh. You know, 0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:56.640 where is it on the MOODA scale like a three 0:27:56.680 --> 0:28:00.040 here of four? Does it go beyond the type of 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:03.880 blood letting that that Muda shows off in this match? Um? 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:07.600 So yeah, it's different from Karma Muda. But at the 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:11.960 same time, I think the given scenario, like this match, 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:15.359 you could have the performer themselves feeling a sense of 0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:19.800 Karma Muda. You could have the audience viewing this spectacle, uh, 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:23.119 certainly feeling this communal sense of Karma muda. You know, 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:25.320 you're all a part of this big sporting event. It's 0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:29.120 kind of a almost a you know, it's not quite patriotism, 0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.720 but like a unity of love for the performance or 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:35.879 for one of the two or both performers. Oh. I 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.080 think it's absolutely there in fan communities of things, you know, 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:42.720 people feel a solidarity with their fellow fans based on 0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:46.120 their shared interests. There's an there's an inference of kind 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:48.920 of like shared values and common cause, even if that 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:52.120 might not necessarily be the case, kind of feels that way, right, 0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:54.280 Like when if you're a pro wrestling fan, if you 0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:56.400 knew what the Muda scale was, you knew who the 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:59.600 great Muda uh is, then perhaps when I mentioned it, 0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:01.800 you al too a little bit of that. You felt 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:03.440 this connection to me and you knew that we we 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:08.280 shared something in this uh, this brotherhood of blood. All right, 0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:09.840 on that note, we're going to take a break, but 0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:12.840 when we come back, we will jump back in to 0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:19.200 the karma muta. Than alright, we're back. I figured we 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:21.200 should just take a brief glance and a few of 0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:23.880 the studies out there in UH, in the journals about 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.640 karma muda, this this emerging idea of this this unifying 0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:32.240 emotion based on the intensification of communal sharing. So the 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:34.960 first one is that I wanted to bring up is 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:38.320 by fist at all in Emotion Review published in twenty 0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:42.440 nineteen called the Sudden Devotion, Emotion and Karma Muda and 0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:46.560 the Cultural Practices whose function is to evoke it? And 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:50.800 this paper UH briefly just it argues that quote, cultures 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:57.680 have evolved diverse practices, institutions, roles, narratives, arts, and artifacts 0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:02.000 whose core function is to evoke karma muda. And it 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:07.600 also argues that karma muda quote mediates much of human sociality. Uh. 0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:09.719 And I think this is probably right, right, I mean 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.200 whether whether or not like the term is the right 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:16.560 term to use. A huge amount of media and culture 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:19.960 and art is based on this. It's like watching people 0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:24.320 in the act of this sudden intensification of communal emotion 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.200 and bonding. Yeah. Like, I'm reminded of the very Super 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:30.880 Bowl ads that come out, like the really emotionally manipulative 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:35.400 ones that have like animals coming together, people in their pets, etcetera. 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:39.200 Um and and yeah, it brings people together, perhaps in 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.719 the you know, so you can sell a product to them, 0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:45.960 but still the the the images themselves, the idea of 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:49.040 the story, the music, it all comes together to create this, uh, 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:53.600 this shared feeling. Now, this paper in particular does specifically 0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:57.560 mention cuteness as one of these cultural models. And we 0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.680 certainly discussed cuteness on our our podcast in the past, 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.960 especially as it concerns monsters and the cutification of formally 0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:08.800 horrifying monsters. Yeah, this is an interesting question, like why 0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:12.920 does cuteness seem to evoke all the same psychological and 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:17.320 physiological symptoms as comma muda brought on by more traditional stimuli, 0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:20.720 which would include either like communal sharing between one person 0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:25.320 and another, communal sharing between observed others. Um just to 0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:27.040 go quickly to another paper and then we can come 0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:29.360 back to this. Because this has to do with cuteness. 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:33.400 There's this other one called too cute for Words. Cuteness 0:31:33.440 --> 0:31:38.320 evokes the heartwarming emotion of comma muda, published in Frontiers 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.200 and Psychology in twenty nineteen, and the authors they're hypothesized 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:45.200 the cuteness is a type of stimulus that makes people 0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:49.680 feel an automatic sense of communal sharing with the cute 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:53.120 entity just based on the aesthetics of cuteness alone. It's 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:55.640 it's in line with some of the biological theory about 0:31:55.680 --> 0:31:58.600 the nature of cuteness, which says that cuteness is a 0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:02.400 series of visual skima designed to make adults feel like 0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:05.800 obligated to take care of the cute thing and to 0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:08.920 watch out for its best interests. So the cute face 0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.440 asks you for help without any words, and you just 0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:16.920 feel compelled to comply, And it's the assumption of that relationship. 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:20.680 They hypothesize that that provides the kamma muda link here 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:24.680 that's why cuteness feels in a way communal. The latest 0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:27.760 cultural example of this, I think would be the child 0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:31.600 m a k a. Baby Yoda from the television series 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:35.440 The Mandalorian, which spoilers please, yes, now you have you 0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:37.520 haven't been on the internet, so I don't know what 0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:40.360 you're talking about. It's impossible to avoid the spoiler that 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:43.600 there is there is a creature that is unofficially called 0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:47.040 baby Yoda in the show. Um, it is never called 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:48.920 that in the show, just called the child or the 0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:52.000 asset and um, and yeah, you look at it, and 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:54.560 it really, uh, it really pulls out your heart strings. 0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:59.560 It's really it is really cute. And uh it shares 0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:02.280 us some screen time with none other than Werner Herzog, 0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:07.040 the acclaimed German director and occasional actor, also very cute 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:11.480 wealth uh more, well, no, he's he's menacing. Let's let's 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:14.360 make no too. Let's not lie about that for awhelming 0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:18.160 and collective murder. But but he I think he explained 0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:21.200 it well via Indie Wire when he's talking about sharing 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:24.840 screen time with with the child, he said, it is 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:30.960 a phenomenal technological achievement. But beyond the technological achievement. It's heartbreaking. 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:34.880 And apparently, when he learned that they were going to 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:38.720 shoot alternate takes of these scenes in case they wanted 0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:42.080 to replace the puppet um child with a c g 0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:45.720 I child, he reportedly told them, quote, you are cowards. 0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:54.000 Leave it an ultimately. But but yes, um, the child 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:57.160 is very cute and the show is is terrific as well. 0:33:57.280 --> 0:33:59.680 But to come back to that that paper, uh, the 0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:02.600 sudden devotion emotion Um. This is what they had to 0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:07.440 say about cuteness in karma muda quote. The fact that cuteness, vulnerability, 0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:11.640 and need evoke karmamuta makes sense given our assumption that 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:16.640 the phylogenetic source of karmamuta is maternal bonding to newborns. 0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:21.440 The generativity of human karmamuta makes it flexibly adaptive. This 0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:26.320 explains why karmamuta occurs in response to babies, kittens, marriage 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:31.440 proposals and weddings, rituals of solidarity, religious moments of union 0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:36.799 with divinities, homecomings and reunions, the kindness of strangers, sentimental 0:34:36.920 --> 0:34:41.239 narratives and cinema, addiction, recovery groups, keen spirit, moments in 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:46.520 war and sports, oratory marketing, choral singing, making and listening 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:50.319 to music, dancing, rowing, and so forth. I see it though, 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:52.640 I see it. Yeah, there is this through line and 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:54.800 like all those things they mentioned that I would not 0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:57.759 have unified in my mind before, but now it's it 0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:00.680 makes sense to me. This concept is interesting to me 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:05.160 because there is something I feel that's similar when something 0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:08.400 is very cute versus when I have like a moment 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:12.200 of personal love and connection, versus when I'm I'm part 0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:15.759 of like a political moment that feels positive and significant 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:19.640 with many other people. Like, those things seem so different. 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.520 What would be unified between them? Why are there these 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:26.040 similar sensations in the body and kind of feelings in 0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.520 the brain. Well, there's a way to bring these together, Joe, 0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:32.879 and that is a baby Yoda. Obviously it's got my vote. 0:35:33.080 --> 0:35:34.600 That thing is going to be used to sell the 0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:39.160 world's awful ast atrocity. How baby Yoda is a holy, 0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:43.880 blameless creature. Okay, to look briefly at another paper that 0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:47.120 Fisk was involved in. Another one is Fisk at all? 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:52.120 In Evolutionary Studies in Imaginative Culture in seen called the 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.960 best love story of all time, Overcoming all obstacles to 0:35:56.040 --> 0:36:00.400 be reunited evoking Kama Muda and basically here they just 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:02.400 point out that if you go back through the history 0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:05.760 of literature, one of the most common types of stories 0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:09.560 is that beloved people are separated and then they have 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:14.480 to overcome overwhelming obstacles in order to get back together. Yeah. 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:16.480 I mean, that's the ram the Ramayana right there at 0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:19.200 the story of rob and Sita separated and then brought 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:23.799 back together following military conquest and adventure. Yeah. I mean, 0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:27.240 it's there all through ancient literature, you know, the novels 0:36:27.280 --> 0:36:29.760 of the Greco Roman period. You have tons of stuff 0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:32.719 like this. But then to go into like you know, 0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:36.560 modern manipulative cuteness cinema, I just think about how much 0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:40.240 of a sucker I've always been for stories of people 0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:44.520 being reunited with lost pet. It's just an undefendable weakness. 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:47.480 I remember when I was a kid, the end of 0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:51.120 the movie Homeward Bound. You remember that movie. I wasn't 0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:53.239 a huge fan of my sisters loved it and would 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:55.000 watch it over and over again, you know, I saw 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:57.000 multiple times because I was a kid when it was 0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:59.040 out and big and out on video. I think it 0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:01.160 was a good thing for parents or teachers to put 0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:04.560 on you know, uh, and it just destroyed me, like 0:37:04.719 --> 0:37:09.239 this sudden upwelling of uncontrollable happiness and tears at the 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:12.560 scene spoiler alert where this fictional trio of pets two 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:15.160 dogs and a cat you know, after a great journey, 0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:19.640 are reunited with their fictional humans. There is an excellent 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:23.919 Futurama episode title Jurassic Bark that evokes the same sort 0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:25.719 of feeling in me every time I really watch it, 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:27.200 even though it is it is you know, it is 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:29.759 a comedy as a farce, and despite the fact that 0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:33.360 it expressly dodges such a reunion, like the reunion between 0:37:33.440 --> 0:37:37.200 the human and the dog does not occur, but it 0:37:37.280 --> 0:37:40.759 has such a bitter sweet ending where it is it 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.920 is shown that the the the reunion wanted to happen, 0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.759 I guess you could say. And another weird example of 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:48.920 this uh that and I know you've seen this is 0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:52.279 um uh And this one probably works due mainly to 0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:55.640 the musical choice, but the ending of the Simpsons episode 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:59.799 Radioactive Man, in which the director returns to Hollywood after 0:37:59.880 --> 0:38:04.400 this grueling experience of filming on location in Springfield where everybody, 0:38:04.440 --> 0:38:08.759 the politicians, the townspeople, they're all taking advantage of these 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.680 poor Hollywood types. And then he comes back and he's 0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:15.120 welcomed back into Hollywood with open arms. And then the 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:18.759 Bill Withers classic lean on Me begins playing. Uh, and 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:21.000 then they you know, they pan out and it it 0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:24.680 it's it's a satirical moment, but clearly they're you know, 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:27.360 they're they're playing with this idea of you know, of 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:33.239 of Hollywood versus small town morality, etcetera. But since they're 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.759 playing lean on Me, it gets me every time, Like 0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:39.320 it makes me feel all the fields. Despite the satirical 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:41.840 nature of the content, that song is like the perfect 0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:44.719 karma muta song. It is, yeah, lean on Me when 0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.760 you're not strong. Yeah, it's it's about trust and depending 0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:52.680 on each other. Yeah, it's just pure, uncut common mood. Uh. 0:38:52.960 --> 0:38:54.960 And I would also say there seem to be major 0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:58.800 genres of internet media that are based entirely on exploiting 0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:01.960 people's desire to feel common mooda like emotions at the 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:03.960 push of a button over and over again. It's like 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:06.680 your you know, your cocaine button in the rat cage, 0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:11.080 except it's karma muda, you know, the the upworthy style 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:13.759 of stuff. The video is titled like he almost kicked 0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:16.839 a turtle into the trash compactor, but what happens next 0:39:16.920 --> 0:39:20.640 will melt your heart. Yeah, and you want to click 0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:22.640 because yeah, I'm like, okay, I'm I want to have 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:25.480 my heart melted. Let's do it. Yeah. But this kind 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.960 of content is incredibly potent for virality. You know, when 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.200 there are these like studies about what kind of content 0:39:31.280 --> 0:39:35.680 actually goes viral. Uh, there's a reason that these media 0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:39.040 companies went for content like that, because that stuff hits 0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:41.640 the button. I mean, I think because of our negative 0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:44.160 view of virality, we often tend to think of like 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:47.480 kind of nasty memes as being the most viral content. 0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:54.200 But this karma muda exploitation video stuff is hugely viral. Yeah. 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:56.520 To come back to the corna McCarthy quote about about 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:59.799 the snowflake and the fleeting nature of the feeling. Uh, 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.160 one solution is, oh, well, well, it's all right, there 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:04.160 are a lot of snowflakes in the air. I will 0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:07.240 just run around all day catching them and do nothing else, 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:10.440 just to get that hit after hit after hit of 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:16.399 good old fashioned common motive feeling. Uh. So, Luckily, there's 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:19.080 a there's a there's a machine in my hand with 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:22.360 a program that is designed to do nothing but just 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.920 keep clicking. Yeah. I mean, I guess I don't know. 0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:28.239 Maybe maybe there are downsides that I'm not thinking of. 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:30.440 I mean, I guess it's better that people keep watching 0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:34.120 stuff like that they go down some horrible radicalizing YouTube 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:36.160 trail or something and end up a member of the 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:39.959 anti human Front or whatever, anti human but pro baby 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:45.160 Yoda where you end up in landing. I guess yeah, okay, okay, sorry, 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:49.040 next study just quickly. This is one called Moment to 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:53.080 moment changes and feeling moved match changes in closeness, tears, 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:57.240 goose bumps, and warmth time series analysis, published in eighteen 0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:59.960 by Schubert at All. This study looked at the moment 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:04.600 went to moments sensations like body sensations of people experiencing 0:41:04.680 --> 0:41:07.560 what the researchers believed to be karma muda, as evoked 0:41:07.600 --> 0:41:10.600 by video clips showing scenes meant to display these intense 0:41:10.719 --> 0:41:16.200 communal sharing relationships, these moments when these relationships intensify and uh. 0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:19.960 The study found strong and consistent cross correlations between clips 0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:23.600 that people scored with karma muda associated words like moved 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:27.440 or touched distinct from clips that were judged as merely 0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:29.920 happy or sad. This is like a separate thing than 0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:32.840 being happy or sad, and that the Kama Muda clips 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.760 were associated with this with moment to moment physiological symptoms 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:40.680 or sensations of tears or moisteness in the eyes, goose 0:41:40.800 --> 0:41:43.839 bumps or chills, and feelings of warmth in the center 0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:47.120 of the chest. So again back to what we were 0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:49.320 talking about earlier, there were a couple of studies that 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:53.879 looked at a cross cultural analyzes basically like is there 0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:57.600 a similar thing going on across different languages and cultures. 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:02.120 There was one study that looked at UH the United States, Norway, China, Israel, 0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:05.400 and Portugal published in the Journal of Cross Cultural Psychology 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.680 in teen by Cibit at all Uh, and this just 0:42:08.840 --> 0:42:11.480 generally did find that there was there was a lot 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:14.640 of consistency across the different cultures. And then there was 0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:18.320 another one published in the journal Emotion in twenty nineteen 0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:22.800 by zike Field at all UH looking at nineteen different 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:26.560 nations across fifteen different languages, three thousand five dred and 0:42:26.600 --> 0:42:29.719 forty two participants to see if there was consistency about 0:42:29.760 --> 0:42:33.719 which types of experiences evoked karmamoda like emotions h to 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:36.960 read from their abstract quote. Our results are congruent with 0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:39.880 theory and previous findings showing that karma muda is a 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:45.040 distinct positive social relational emotion that is evoked by experiencing 0:42:45.200 --> 0:42:49.600 or observing a sudden intensification of communal sharing. It is 0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:53.000 commonly accompanied by a warm feeling in the chest, moist 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:57.400 eyes or tears, chills or pilo erection, feeling choked up 0:42:57.560 --> 0:43:00.680 or having a lump in the throat, buoyancy, and a zilaration. 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:05.240 It motivates affective devotion and moral commitment to communal sharing. 0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:09.480 While we observed some variations across cultures, these five facets 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:13.240 of karma muda are highly correlated in every sample, supporting 0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:16.040 the validity of the construct in the measure. So it 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:18.800 looks like this is, at least according to this research 0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:21.239 we're looking at so far, this is a pretty universal 0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:24.120 emotion and that we might have some different words for 0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:28.319 it across different cultures, but there's something pretty consistent going 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:30.759 on about like what types of things we can see 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:33.640 or be a part of, and what kinds of feelings 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.520 it gives throughout the body, and what kind of behaviors 0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:40.759 it triggers in us afterwards. So what do we learn 0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:45.080 by naming and characterizing an emotion? We sort of started 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:48.960 off by talking about this a bit. Yeah, and you know, 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:51.680 I have to say that this my initial reaction to 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:55.200 this topic, not being familiar with the the particular concept, 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:59.160 with the named concept of karma muta, my initial response 0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:03.319 was what good does this dois? Why do we need this? Uh? 0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:06.920 Be and and uh you know, And I'm I'm not 0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:09.320 to say that I was completely biased against it, but 0:44:09.600 --> 0:44:13.040 because I'm but the thing is, I'm clearly already experiencing 0:44:13.120 --> 0:44:17.719 these emotional states, right, but for more nuanced reasons, with 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:21.080 more nuanced terminology, do I really need to catch all 0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:24.759 Sanskrit term to refer to them? Uh? And uh And 0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:27.160 That's been something I'm just trying to to figure out now. Now. 0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:30.520 Certainly I'm not opposed to bringing in Sanskrit terms or 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:34.000 Sanskrit Loan words or or you know, words from say 0:44:34.080 --> 0:44:38.920 Hindu or Buddhist u Um religion, you know, because I 0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:41.839 think that a lot of times these are very useful terms, 0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:44.880 such as things like say Brahmin and sam Sara. I 0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:47.680 think these can be incredibly helpful and and they certainly 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:50.160 stem from a language and a culture that devoted a 0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:55.280 tremendous amount of mental energy to contemplating psychological and metaphysical concepts. 0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:59.919 But in this particular instance, does kama muta like really 0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:03.200 help us out? I could not help. But but think 0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:08.000 about another case in which we have reached out to 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:12.239 another language for a term that we have they were 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:16.040 lacking in English to describe an emotional, very specific emotional state, 0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:20.680 and that is the German concept of schadenfreude, which is 0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:25.360 the pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. Like, 0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:28.840 we don't have a specific term for it, like a 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.560 single word for it in English, but in German, uh, 0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:35.560 they have it and and it is kind of useful 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:38.880 I think, to be able to take schadenfreude out of 0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:41.520 the German language and then use it as a way 0:45:41.600 --> 0:45:45.200 to reflect on how we're feeling about things in our life. Well, 0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:47.640 the fact that we now have a loan word for 0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:49.960 it in English, I think that makes it much easier 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:53.200 for us to recognize when it's happening, to say, I 0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:58.280 am feeling schadenfreude and not something more useful like actual sympathy. 0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:00.960 To be able to draw a line between sympathy and 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:05.320 schadenfreuda despite the fact that they are very they're very connected, Like, 0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:07.400 you know, it's the kind of the flip side of 0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:10.600 the coin. Um, you know, we can this gives us 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:12.680 again the power to label, to discuss it, to pull 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:15.560 it aside and UH and even then lean into the 0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:19.000 more positive UH side of the coin, to lean into sympathy. 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:22.360 But that brings us back to karmamuta because instead of 0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:27.000 going from broad to specific, as we're feeling with with schadenfreuda, 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:30.279 how about how does karma mouda help us? How does 0:46:30.320 --> 0:46:32.320 it help us to be able to go instead of 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:34.759 from the large too small, to go from the small 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:37.319 to the large. Well, I mean, I think one thing, 0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:39.839 if they're on the right track. I mean, obviously these 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:43.680 researchers could could maybe be wrong about this, but you know, 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:45.920 it looks like there's a body of research building up 0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.880 here that's pretty supportive of the idea that this is 0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:52.440 actually a fairly consistent phenomenon across cultures. There are these 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:56.440 like things linking all these disparate UH phenomena, and there 0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:59.800 are of course plenty of emotional states that are broad, 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:03.759 like happiness is extremely broad the situations that cause happiness 0:47:03.880 --> 0:47:06.880 or or you know, you can't list them all, right, 0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:09.360 But then again, nobody's coming along and saying, Hey, I 0:47:09.400 --> 0:47:11.720 want to tell you about this new concept. It's called happiness. 0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:14.520 The only one thing that did come to mind that 0:47:14.560 --> 0:47:17.640 reminded me a little bit about this though, um is 0:47:18.640 --> 0:47:23.520 via a say, partial understanding of serotonin or media overuse 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:27.480 of serotonin, the discussion of serantonin serotonin, we end up 0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:33.520 reminding ourselves of neurotransmitters in regard to any given emotional state, 0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:37.400 you know where, So what do you mean. I'm saying like, 0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:40.320 nobody's gonna come along and have to explain to you 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:43.239 what happiness is. But at some point in your life someone, 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:45.520 like much later someone might have come along and said, hey, 0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:47.640 let me talk to you about that happiness and what 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:50.400 you're and let me tell you about serotonin's role and 0:47:50.480 --> 0:47:52.840 how you're feeling. Are you saying like giving you a 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:58.000 good explanation of serotonin's role or oversimplified oversimplified version, which 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:01.319 I think is the version that we often encounter, uh, 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:03.960 certainly just in the media at large, and perhaps we 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:07.080 encounter for the first time, combined with sort of they 0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:10.200 need more serotonin than I can be happy, right yeah. 0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:12.040 Or it's also just kind of like when you first 0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:13.560 hear about it, you may have it. You will probably 0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:15.919 have an incomplete understanding of it, and that may also 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:20.359 lean into this this understanding of it. So on one level, 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:23.800 it's kind of a making something familiar new again with 0:48:23.960 --> 0:48:28.640 new terminology. I wonder if karma mutas kind of it 0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:31.919 kind of provides that it kind of takes this sort 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:36.279 of broad you know, area of the fields. It gives 0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:39.520 them a new term, and then ultimately it does allow 0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:43.799 us to to potentially analyze it a new to think 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:47.960 of it in a new light without actually recategorizing it 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:51.879 is something drastically different. I mean, I think again, if 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:54.080 the researchers are on the right track here, I think 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:56.320 one thing that could be useful about it is that 0:48:56.680 --> 0:49:01.680 you when you identify a phenomenon where a bunch of 0:49:01.800 --> 0:49:06.759 things that previously looked unrelated are actually very related, new 0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:10.000 cause and effect relationships occur to you as possible, and 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:13.319 you can start testing for them. So, for example, one 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:15.239 thing that that seems to come out of this is 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:18.920 that uh karma muda seems to at least in some 0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:22.200 of this research motivate a sense of increased community with 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:24.759 the objects of whatever you're watching. So if you watch 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:28.880 a you know, video of two people having this this 0:49:29.160 --> 0:49:31.520 moment that makes you feel the karma muda, you feel 0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:34.160 increased community. You don't just feel the fields in your 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:36.840 chest and all that. You feel increased community with the 0:49:36.960 --> 0:49:40.120 people in the video. And I think another potential way 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.239 to look at this in a positive way would be 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:46.360 when you don't understand what's bringing people together. Say you 0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:48.800 turn on the news and there are some protesters and 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:51.400 you don't agree with what they're protesting about, or you're 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:53.640 on the other side if they're protest and you need 0:49:53.680 --> 0:49:55.880 to understand them. Or if you, like me, are not 0:49:56.320 --> 0:50:00.200 a like team sports person and you find everyone else 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:03.439 in your city is obsessed with the local soccer team 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:06.680 um or let's say you're not a religious person and 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:10.320 you see footage or you see friends and family engaging 0:50:10.600 --> 0:50:14.160 in a religious experience. We're going to church and and 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:17.000 you and maybe you don't completely understand what they're doing. 0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:20.120 But if you if you define it all under a 0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:23.240 kamma muta, you can look to the examples of comma 0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:26.279 muta that you do engage with and then potentially have 0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:29.640 a better understanding, or at least some understanding of why 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:32.480 people are united in protest here, why people are in 0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:35.400 a house of worship here, or why people are all 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:37.680 wearing the same color and going to a colisseum here. 0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:40.359 Right to understand that. You know, you might not get 0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:43.360 what people like about sports, but there's some similarity in 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:46.000 the feelings in the body and the pleasure that pervades 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:49.920 your brain when you experience cute kitten videos that other 0:50:49.960 --> 0:50:53.439 people do when they're part of a team sports thing. Yeah, 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:56.839 everything is baby Yoda. Basically, that's the thing to drive home. 0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:59.520 If you don't understand it, just remind yourself that's baby 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:02.160 Yoda to you. All right, So there you have it. 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:05.560 Karma muta. Obviously, we would love to hear from everybody 0:51:05.600 --> 0:51:10.839 about this because this concerns a broad categorization of human 0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:14.279 emotion that we can all relate to. Uh, So, hit 0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:17.160 us up with your examples, your thoughts, your contemplation on 0:51:17.280 --> 0:51:20.799 what we've discussed here. Does the term karma muta? Does 0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:23.239 that help you? Uh? Or do you feel like it 0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:25.359 is in some way a hindrance? I don't know. We're 0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:28.200 open to discussion on all of that. In the meantime, 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:30.000 if you want to check out other episodes of Stuff 0:51:30.040 --> 0:51:32.200 to Blow Your Mind, you can find us wherever you 0:51:32.320 --> 0:51:36.400 find your podcasts. Um the Mothership is no longer with us, 0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:38.120 but you can still go to stuff to Blow your 0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:40.600 Mind dot com and that will redirect you to the 0:51:40.960 --> 0:51:44.480 I heart Media listing for our podcast. But wherever you 0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:46.920 get the podcast, just make sure you rate, and you 0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:50.280 review and you subscribe. Uh. These are the three acts 0:51:50.320 --> 0:51:52.960 of devotion that help us out in the long run. 0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:56.080 Huge things. As always to our excellent audio producer Seth 0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:58.359 Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:00.560 with us with feedback on this episode, it or any other, 0:52:00.760 --> 0:52:03.080 to suggest topic for the future, just to say hi, 0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:05.839 you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:15.560 your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 0:52:15.560 --> 0:52:17.920 a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more 0:52:17.960 --> 0:52:20.319 podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 0:52:20.520 --> 0:52:23.120 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.