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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. A production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radios has to works. Hey, welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're going to be looking

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Speaker 1: at a subject that that I started thinking about in

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Speaker 1: terms of a broader question, and the question is this,

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Speaker 1: are there unexplored frontiers in understanding what human emotions are?

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Speaker 1: When you think about human emotions, that that is something

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Speaker 1: that's studied by psychology and sometimes by neuroscience. But it

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Speaker 1: seems like territory where we just assume we've got all

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Speaker 1: the basics down right. We know what all we know happy, sad,

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Speaker 1: we know contempt, we know disgust. You know, there's a

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Speaker 1: broad range of basic emotions, and we just think it's

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Speaker 1: intuitive that, yeah, we we've got names for all of them,

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Speaker 1: we understand basically what they are, we've felt them before.

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Speaker 1: But there is of course something that we all know

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Speaker 1: that that there is a a feeling understanding gap that

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Speaker 1: we can feel things without necessarily understanding what they are

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Speaker 1: or why we're feeling them. It's why we're sometimes like

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Speaker 1: surprised by our own emotions, Like when you discover without

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Speaker 1: realizing it, that you've been falling in love with someone,

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Speaker 1: or you discover without realizing it that someone actually really

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Speaker 1: gets on your nerves and you know it's finally all

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Speaker 1: coming into focus, or you know, all kinds of feelings

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Speaker 1: like that that you can feel for a long time

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Speaker 1: before you have any kind of cognitive awareness or ability

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Speaker 1: to describe or put a name to it. And it

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Speaker 1: makes you wonder if there are whole emotional states that

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Speaker 1: we go through. We feel them, but we don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: have a language for them, or or an understanding of

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Speaker 1: their relationship to external stimuli and the symptoms they produce

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Speaker 1: in the body and the mind. Yeah, there's a great

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Speaker 1: deal of complexity to this because on one hand, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's just the awareness of self being able to enter

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Speaker 1: at least into moments of awareness, moments of self awareness.

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Speaker 1: And then there's of course this idea of being aware

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Speaker 1: of your awareness and how that changes your ability to

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Speaker 1: self reflect and you know, varying degrees of awareness as well.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I was I was thinking a

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Speaker 1: little bit on this, and I feel like, to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent, it's kind of like transparent anatomical overlays that

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Speaker 1: you'll find in like an anatomy book, you know, where

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Speaker 1: like the base is the skeleton, and then you have

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Speaker 1: like a transparent overlay that then puts um I don't know,

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Speaker 1: the circulatory system, and then you you know, add other

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Speaker 1: systems or muscular layers on top of that. You're getting

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Speaker 1: very tool album art on me, right, right, I know

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Speaker 1: your mind. Obviously this has also been a explored in

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Speaker 1: in tool album art as well, yes, by the excellence

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Speaker 1: of the excellent visionary artist Alex Gray, of course. But

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Speaker 1: there is actually something pretty interesting about that art, which

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Speaker 1: is that it layers real anatomical strata of things you

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Speaker 1: would see like muscles and blood, vessels, nerves and all that,

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Speaker 1: with other things that are non physical. They're you know,

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Speaker 1: abstracted layers on sort of concepts of the soul on

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Speaker 1: top of the body and another transparent overlay, right. And

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Speaker 1: so I can't help but think about that in terms

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Speaker 1: of feelings, language, and awareness, because there's certainly the experience

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Speaker 1: of an emotional state that we have, and then there's

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Speaker 1: another transparent page that we can put on top of that,

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Speaker 1: representing like a person shaped word cloud that provides a

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Speaker 1: definition and an analysis as well of what I'm feeling,

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Speaker 1: though perhaps uh, you know, we also needed a second

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Speaker 1: overlay to really have captured that second part, you know

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Speaker 1: what that what our culture is saying about what we

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Speaker 1: think we're feeling and how we should feel about it.

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Speaker 1: And then on top of all of this, we have

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Speaker 1: awareness and the awareness of awareness, and the knowledge that

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Speaker 1: this entire page is going to turn that this state,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, if it is going to be fleeting,

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Speaker 1: no matter how much we want it to last forever

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Speaker 1: or how much we dread that it will last forever.

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Speaker 1: And I think it can sometimes go something like this, Right,

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Speaker 1: I feel something, and then my language gives that feeling

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Speaker 1: a name, say sadness, And then my culture tells me

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Speaker 1: that say sadness, that sadness that I'm feeling is inappropriate

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Speaker 1: for my gender or inappropriate for a given situation, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: and um. And then I yearn for other labeled emotional

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Speaker 1: states and somehow this uh, this linguistic tag does not

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Speaker 1: summon the emotion I want. It doesn't generated out of nowhere,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm sad and ashamed for being sad. Um.

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Speaker 1: So basically the short of it is, there's there's this

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Speaker 1: relationship between how we label our emotions and the emotions

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Speaker 1: we feel. Uh. And also it does that thing that

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Speaker 1: that language does. Right, We're able to tag something for

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Speaker 1: further study. We're able to take something that is difficult

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Speaker 1: to explain, we put a single label on it, and

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Speaker 1: then we can discuss that label in comparison to other subjects,

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Speaker 1: other examples, etcetera. Well, Yeah, once you name something, you

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Speaker 1: can start to figure out what it is and what

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Speaker 1: it is not. Uh. If you didn't have a name

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Speaker 1: for the thing, it's a lot harder to start trying

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Speaker 1: to describe the characteristics it does or doesn't possess. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And like as a as a parent, I have encountered this.

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Speaker 1: You know, where my son is feeling something and either

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Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't have the self awareness and self

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Speaker 1: reflection to really think about it yet, or or perhaps

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Speaker 1: he doesn't even have a good word, a good description

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Speaker 1: for what it is he's feeling, and you have to

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Speaker 1: sort of try and try and walk them through what

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Speaker 1: they're feeling and try to get them to identify it

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Speaker 1: so that you can discuss it so you can get

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of it to whatever extent you can.

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Speaker 1: I think that naming of things, especially naming of internal

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Speaker 1: states can have tremendous and often well tremendous positive and

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Speaker 1: negative power. One example of positive power I think of

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Speaker 1: is I'm not going to say who, but just somebody

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Speaker 1: I know. At one point when they became aware of

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Speaker 1: the cycle logical concept of rumination, uh, you know, the

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Speaker 1: process of repeatedly going over cycles of negative thoughts in

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Speaker 1: your mind and entertaining worst possible scenarios. Just becoming aware

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Speaker 1: that that was a concept that was already known of

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Speaker 1: and had a name had a lot of power for

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Speaker 1: this person to help them overcome when it was affecting them,

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Speaker 1: because suddenly they didn't just think, oh, I'm doing this

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Speaker 1: terrible thing again. They thought, I'm ruminating. This is a

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Speaker 1: psychological symptom that's negative, and they felt it was easier

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Speaker 1: to break out of the cycle after knowing the word

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Speaker 1: for it exactly. And it come back to sadness for example,

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Speaker 1: like it's one thing that's to realize I am feeling sad,

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Speaker 1: but then language allows us then to focus in on

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Speaker 1: more specific versions of that, saying, you know, not only

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Speaker 1: am I feeling sadness, perhaps I'm feeling the particular sadness

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Speaker 1: of loss or rejection or homesickness or defeat or alienation um.

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Speaker 1: And and then we can we we can better utilize

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Speaker 1: our our own minds and even uh resources, either in

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Speaker 1: the community or in just sort of the the general

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Speaker 1: human um in a world around us, to try and

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Speaker 1: figure out how we should react uh and or solve

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Speaker 1: the situation at hand. Yeah, exactly. I mean that makes

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Speaker 1: me think of another thing you're sort of alluding to there,

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Speaker 1: which is that when you have a name for an

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Speaker 1: internal state, that helps you find other people who also

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Speaker 1: experience the internal state because you sort of have a

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Speaker 1: common search term or something that you can use to

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Speaker 1: get together and figure out Oh okay, and you can

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Speaker 1: compare your experiences with others uh. And of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: again this cuts both ways. I'd say overall, is probably

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Speaker 1: a positive thing to have names for internal states like this,

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Speaker 1: because it can help people find solidarity get advice from

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Speaker 1: other people who feel the same way they do. But

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Speaker 1: it can also lead to you know, people finding one

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Speaker 1: another based on like anger based or you know, negative

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Speaker 1: internal states and and building a kind of negative solidarity

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Speaker 1: of stoking one another's bad emotions, right, or what happens

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Speaker 1: when you have a legitimate emotional state, but the terminology

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Speaker 1: end up using to describe it is is not helpful, say,

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Speaker 1: say that you end up using like say, highly religious

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Speaker 1: terminology to describe these things that in some cases may

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Speaker 1: not provide a lot of tools for dealing with it.

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Speaker 1: Like what if you broadly categorize various emotional states as

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Speaker 1: being sinful? Um, well, then that means that you're only

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Speaker 1: ways of really addressing whatever you're feeling lie within the

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Speaker 1: religious doctrine that you are in which you're classifying everything,

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Speaker 1: uh and limits you in that respect. Or believing that

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Speaker 1: say a state like depression or something consists of having

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Speaker 1: a demon which you know you can certainly understand why

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Speaker 1: it could feel that way. And yet on the other side,

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Speaker 1: there are examples of personifying negative emotional states that can

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Speaker 1: be liberating, you know, being able to say, personify one's

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Speaker 1: fear and then reject it. So it's it's it's certainly

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about human emotional states and our awareness

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Speaker 1: of them and our dealings with them, there's a great

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Speaker 1: deal of complexity here. There's not necessarily a one size

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Speaker 1: fits all. We're not going to be able to unwrap

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Speaker 1: all of these questions today, but we will discuss an

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Speaker 1: emotional state that has largely gone unnamed, at least in

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Speaker 1: the English language. Yeah, at least if this group of

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Speaker 1: researchers that we're gonna be talking about today are onto something.

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Speaker 1: So I came to this topic today of of emotions

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Speaker 1: that we don't yet have names for, by reading an

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Speaker 1: article and eon by the psychological anthropologist Alan Fisk, who

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Speaker 1: is a professor at the University of California, Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: And in this article, Fisk summarizes a bunch of research

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Speaker 1: that's been going on in the past few years of

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Speaker 1: a lot a lot of which he's been a co

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Speaker 1: author on um, which he believes identifies an extremely imp hortoned,

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Speaker 1: everyday emotion, not something unusual, but something we all know,

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Speaker 1: we feel all the time, that's incredibly important to our lives,

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Speaker 1: that's been with us all along, but that he argues,

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Speaker 1: has not been recognized as distinct and unified as an

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Speaker 1: emotion in itself, and instead has been called a lot

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Speaker 1: of kind of other things in its different facets. And

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Speaker 1: the term he uses for this emotion is karma muta

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Speaker 1: k a m A m u t A. So what

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Speaker 1: exactly is karma muda? As Fisk would argue the term

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Speaker 1: karmamuda comes from ancient Sanskrit, in which it means moved

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Speaker 1: by love. So this emotion of karma muda is a

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Speaker 1: social emotion, and Fisk describes it as an emotion evoked

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Speaker 1: by the sudden intensification of communal sharing. Now, this doesn't

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Speaker 1: just mean sharing in the sense of like sharing your

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Speaker 1: toys or sharing your kitcat bar, or you know, sharing

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Speaker 1: the payout from the bank ice uh, though all of

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Speaker 1: those could probably be moments that would evoke karmamuda. But

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Speaker 1: this is a broader sense of sharing. This is what

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Speaker 1: Alan Fisk has called another work communal sharing relationships, and

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Speaker 1: that's briefly defined in one of his papers as relationships

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Speaker 1: quote in which participants feel that in some distinctive way

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Speaker 1: they are equivalent, belong together, care for and trust each other.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of like a strengthening of social bonds

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Speaker 1: and a signaling of trust and mutual caring. This is

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Speaker 1: why you do trust falls at your place to work, right,

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Speaker 1: you know you would think that this makes me think

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Speaker 1: of a funny thing I kind of want to come

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Speaker 1: back to and later in the episode, which is like

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Speaker 1: ways that if this is truly a unified emotional experience

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Speaker 1: in the way they're describing ways that it is definitely

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Speaker 1: exploited in in like in business and in media. One

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Speaker 1: thing that I know you and I have talked about

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Speaker 1: before is all the things that love to tell you

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Speaker 1: they're your family, but are not your family, like your

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Speaker 1: workplace that says like we're a family, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: I understand that can be a nice thing to say,

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Speaker 1: like you're trying to say, you know, you should feel

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Speaker 1: belonging here, but you know, people actually have families that

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Speaker 1: are families. Or you know, if Olive Garden says when

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Speaker 1: you're here your family, that there's something in common there.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to do something to you. What is that

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Speaker 1: thing they're trying to do. Yeah, they they they're they're

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Speaker 1: co operting the idea of family. Or and here's another one.

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Speaker 1: The Sawe family that Shank saw Massacre um UH series

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Speaker 1: franchise will sometimes pull that one out and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe maybe it is, but probably not.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, Drayton's being manipulative. One he says that he's

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Speaker 1: trying to turn leather Face into a bitter old woman

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Speaker 1: hater like he is, but okay, okay, okay. So there

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Speaker 1: there are lots of separate emotional states that we recognize

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Speaker 1: that Fisk argues actually all share the features of this

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Speaker 1: one unified thing that he's proposing, this unified state of

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Speaker 1: kama muta, and so different examples of words people use

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Speaker 1: for this thing that he actually says is all the

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Speaker 1: same thing is being moved, being touched, team pride, patriotism,

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Speaker 1: being touched by the spirit burning in the bosom, the

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Speaker 1: fields like that, or he says also when evoked by memory,

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Speaker 1: it's nostalgia. So that's a lot of ground to cover.

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Speaker 1: I feel, for instance, I feel nostalgic when I think

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Speaker 1: about movies from I feel a sense of communal belonging,

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Speaker 1: when I am saying church, where I'm in a yoga class,

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Speaker 1: and when I'm hugging my wife and child, I feel

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Speaker 1: something that I might describe as his loved belonging or

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Speaker 1: to some extent, you know, structural completeness. Yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: obviously a lot of different scenarios here that he's saying

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Speaker 1: are all going to evoke this one emotion he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: So maybe we should drill down into the details of

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Speaker 1: how he describes this emotion and it's emptoms in order

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Speaker 1: to understand better what exactly it is he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's roll through it. Well, wait, no, maybe

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Speaker 1: we should take a break first, and then when we

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Speaker 1: come back, we can we can look at the features

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Speaker 1: he lists. All right, we're back. So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: karma muta, and we're gonna begin to roll into the

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Speaker 1: six features that occur together in this broad categorization of

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Speaker 1: emotional states rights, as argued by the anthropologist Allent Fisk.

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Speaker 1: So there's been a bunch of studies on this. We

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Speaker 1: we're gonna look at a few of the studies individually

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Speaker 1: and in a moment here, But just to start off

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Speaker 1: at the top level, what are the main takeaways? Fisk

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Speaker 1: argues that karmamuta is described by six features that occur together,

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Speaker 1: and he says, so, first of all, it's evoked by

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Speaker 1: quote the sudden intensification of communal sharing and again sharing

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Speaker 1: this not just like sharing materials, but this thing that

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Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, Situations where participants feel in some distinctive

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Speaker 1: way that their equivalent belong together, care for and trust

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Speaker 1: each other. Broadly, situations that we describe as examples of

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Speaker 1: love and to a certain extent, you could you could

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Speaker 1: think of this as a you can think of communion

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Speaker 1: as an example of this, right um, or you could

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Speaker 1: think of a potluck dinner as an example of this.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I guess one of the

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Speaker 1: things is that it has to spark that feeling right

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Speaker 1: for it to be real. You could have an overly

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Speaker 1: ritualized version of anything that is then devoid of the

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Speaker 1: emotional residence. It makes me think of the Eddie Izzard

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Speaker 1: joke about us singing Hollelujah and the Anglican Church. No,

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Speaker 1: no offense to Anglicans. You know, I have great love

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Speaker 1: for the Anglicans, but you know he's got this whole

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Speaker 1: bit about them singing hu. I think the point he

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Speaker 1: makes is a good one, which is that like something

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Speaker 1: that's supposed to be an overwhelming outpouring of spontaneous joy, can,

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Speaker 1: if ritualized in a certain kind of way, become rather drab. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good point because on the other end of it, um,

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Speaker 1: when people come together in song like that is a

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Speaker 1: that is a great way to potentially feel this shared

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Speaker 1: emotional state. Absolutely, because we're becoming one voice. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: it's evoked by this sudden moment of communal sharing where

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Speaker 1: you feel a belonging, a trust, and a love with

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Speaker 1: other people. But the next point he says is that

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Speaker 1: it very crucially, this emotion is brief. He says, it

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Speaker 1: typically lasts less than a minute or two, though it

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Speaker 1: can keep repeating in rapid succession, so like you'll get

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Speaker 1: a burst of it. It's less than a minute or

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Speaker 1: two long. You can do it again, but it's not

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Speaker 1: something that you know, lasts all day. And I think

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Speaker 1: this is one thing that, uh, that makes it very

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Speaker 1: important here. It's distinct from love itself the way Fisk

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Speaker 1: describes it. Uh. Fisk says, the important distinction is that

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Speaker 1: love is an enduring sentiment. It's more like a kind

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Speaker 1: of like semi permanent state of affairs that sticks with you,

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Speaker 1: but beyond the moment to moment. Yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: always important to remember that the love endears even as

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Speaker 1: a variety of emotions play out. Uh. Not to say

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Speaker 1: that love is impervious to fleeting emotional states, but it

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Speaker 1: does not inherently vanish when happiness stades or anger seeps in, etcetera. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of the really interesting and special things

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Speaker 1: about love right, that you can like love somebody even

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Speaker 1: when you're angry at them or something like that. But

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Speaker 1: but in contrast to that, he says, karma muta is

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Speaker 1: this intense, momentary flare up of emotion that occurs when

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Speaker 1: love is shared. So when something happens that signals that

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Speaker 1: the sharing of love has intensified. And again, this love

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Speaker 1: can be between two people. It can be between a

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Speaker 1: deer and a dog, It can be between it. Seriously,

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Speaker 1: you know all these videos on the Internet of like

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Speaker 1: a deer and a dog playing together. In fisks terms,

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Speaker 1: these are pure karma muta porn. We're we're just watching

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Speaker 1: these moments of like of social reciprocal trust and ending

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Speaker 1: between you know, species that you might not expect or something.

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Speaker 1: Or it can be not even that personal. It can

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Speaker 1: be between a large group of people who feel solidarity

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Speaker 1: and common purpose. A big thing that features into this

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Speaker 1: is the invocation of common muda and political context, like

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Speaker 1: say in a demonstration or a march, people will often

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Speaker 1: feel the exact same symptoms were about to get into

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Speaker 1: that that are described as typical of karma muda. This

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Speaker 1: you know, burning in the bosom for for a feeling

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Speaker 1: of togetherness with all these people who share a common purpose.

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Speaker 1: Now on the detail of it being fleeting, uh, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if it is fleeting, because like other emotional states,

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Speaker 1: it kind of eludes awareness. I always come back to

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Speaker 1: the Cormick McCarthy quote. I think this was from all

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Speaker 1: the Pretty Horses, Uh, that goes quote. If you want

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Speaker 1: to see it, you have to see it on its

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Speaker 1: own ground. If you catch it, you lose it. And

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Speaker 1: where it goes there's no coming back from not even

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Speaker 1: God can bring it back. And the metaphor that he's

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Speaker 1: exploring here is that have a snow flake that you

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Speaker 1: cannot catch the snowflake. You can only experience it in

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Speaker 1: the moment, and you can't catch or keep it. And

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Speaker 1: that's often what it feels like with happiness. Right You're

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Speaker 1: feeling good, then you think, hey, I'm feeling good, and

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Speaker 1: then you then it begins to run away. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like, don't look directly at the happening happiness, or

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Speaker 1: you will scare it. Uh. Yeah, I think that's a

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Speaker 1: really good point. I mean, one of the things is

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Speaker 1: that I don't think you can improve a moment of

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Speaker 1: happiness by examining it, but I do think by examining

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Speaker 1: happiness generally, maybe that can be a good thing. Like

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Speaker 1: if if you try to look at any individual moment

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Speaker 1: and become analytical about it, it undercuts the emotional power

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Speaker 1: of it. But maybe it is good to have a

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Speaker 1: pre existing uh understanding or awareness of emotional states that

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Speaker 1: come from examining previous versions of that emotion. Oh. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I think understanding the fleeting nature of happiness is key

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Speaker 1: to being able to have a healthy relationship with happiness. Um,

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Speaker 1: Like you, you don't get happy by by thinking about

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Speaker 1: wanting to be happy, right, But I also don't want

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Speaker 1: to make it. I don't want to imply, though, that

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Speaker 1: happiness is disrupted by awareness that you would necessarily just

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Speaker 1: remain on this happiness high if you weren't able to

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Speaker 1: then to self reflect on it, because I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's the case. I get the impression that these bursts

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Speaker 1: of common mouta, if we're going to to use that

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Speaker 1: that term, um, they are supposed to be bursts. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: like all emotions, I mean, all these emotions are fleeting.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes again these individual emotions different than these

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Speaker 1: longer sentiments or states that we hold in our minds.

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Speaker 1: Like love, right, I mean it comes back to sensory

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Speaker 1: information as well. It's like when you taste of strawberry,

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Speaker 1: you're not happy for six years straight. Following the year

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Speaker 1: it's a burst of flavor, a burst of understanding, And

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Speaker 1: you know, it makes sense to that our emotional states

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Speaker 1: would would follow similar patterns. Okay, what of the next

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Speaker 1: four characteristics. So we've got that it's evoked by the

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Speaker 1: sudden communal sharing. We've got that it is brief and fleeting. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The next thing is, of course, that it feels good.

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Speaker 1: This emotion is inherently pleasurable, and people seek whenever, whenever

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Speaker 1: they're able to repeat it, they want to keep having

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Speaker 1: it over and over right, And if you can monetize it,

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Speaker 1: all the better, right, No, all the more evil. Um So,

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Speaker 1: So it feels good. It's naturally pleasurable, even though, and

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Speaker 1: though there's a thing that it's often part of a

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Speaker 1: bitter sweet kind of feeling, something that we do have

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Speaker 1: a name for, that it feels good even when being

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Speaker 1: kind of in the near proximity to or the context

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Speaker 1: of recognizable negative emotions like sadness. Yeah, we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this in the show before in context to say, nostalgia. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's something else we talked about recently. They're being like

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Speaker 1: the bitter sweet aspect to it. Um was it? Oh

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Speaker 1: it was thankfulness? Oh yes, of course gratitude. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: there's a sense of it is a vulnerability to these moments, uh,

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Speaker 1: such as like embracing family members, Like there is like

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Speaker 1: this sort of hyper like meta feeling, like all the

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Speaker 1: all the possibilities, all the potential potential and an actual

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Speaker 1: past and future, joys and sadness and tragedies all just

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Speaker 1: bundled up into a single snap of the finger. You know,

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Speaker 1: you kind of feel all of that at once, which

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Speaker 1: can be overwhelming. Like imagine if that didn't that wasn't

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Speaker 1: just a burst, that would be I mean, if it

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Speaker 1: can be overwhelming even as a burst of emotion. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The next thing that the research has found here is

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Speaker 1: that kamamuda is accompanied by a very consistent, characteristic set

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Speaker 1: of physical sensations in the body and physical symptoms and behaviors.

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Speaker 1: So one is a warm, fuzzy feeling in the center

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Speaker 1: of the chest. Another is is tearing up of course

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Speaker 1: is crying moistenus in the eyes. Another is being choked

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Speaker 1: up lump in the throat, which often goes along with

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Speaker 1: the tears in the eyes. Another is chills or goose bumps. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One is a smile or putting, putting a palm on

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Speaker 1: the chest. And one is the expression, especially in English

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Speaker 1: of awe. Yeah. Ah is a big one because when

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Speaker 1: we when we we we coup awe at the side

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Speaker 1: of a kitten, we are we're generally inviting those among

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Speaker 1: us to share in this moment with us, or we

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Speaker 1: are you know, we're signaling solidarity with you when we

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Speaker 1: with the kitten, with the kitten or the you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever the cute embodiment happens to be. That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: We should come back to that in a minute, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like cuteness doesn't fit into this framework quite

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Speaker 1: as obviously as most of the other things that trigger

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Speaker 1: it do. But I think there might be good reasons,

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Speaker 1: and I think you're definitely onto something there. Uh. So

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Speaker 1: the next thing is that it actually is a motivating emotion.

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Speaker 1: It motivates devotion, and Fisk says, uh compassion to communal sharing,

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Speaker 1: also known as loving kindness. So it generally like what

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Speaker 1: these studies have found. One of the studies I was

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Speaker 1: looking at so is if you show people video of

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Speaker 1: two people having like a communal sharing experience that causes

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Speaker 1: this emotion in the viewer, the viewer also feels an

429
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: increased sense of community with the two characters, these these

430
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: other characters being observed. And then another one is that

431
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: there are common types of expressions across many languages that

432
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: that basically translate to something like this. It means like

433
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: being moved in its various translations, or being touched in

434
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: in various translations. Like that all often refers to something

435
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: having to do with this idea. So I want to say,

436
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: at first glance, in reading about this, I resonate strongly

437
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: like I know exactly what he's talking about. But I

438
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: don't know if it is that we needed a new

439
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: term for it. Maybe we did. I'm not sure if

440
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: I'm decided on that issue or not, But I'm not

441
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: sure what term you would use otherwise, Maybe you could

442
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: just try to lump it under one of these sort

443
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: of capturing it pre existing things like like feeling moved

444
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: or something that might be kind of broader than than

445
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: what exactly this is talking about. But this, this experience,

446
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: in all of the aspects of it that he lists

447
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: feel absolutely real in my own experience, Oh absolutely, the

448
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: the the, the emotional experience is certainly real. Any disagreement

449
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: we have is just about like, to to what extent

450
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: this categorization is useful, To what extent we can actually

451
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: group all of these things under this big umbrella of

452
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: Kama muda. Yeah, I think I'm undecided about that, but

453
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 1: we can explore it more as we go on. By

454
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: the way, none of this is to be confused with

455
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: the Mooda scale. The Mooda scale, yes, which any anyone

456
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: out there who is a pro wrestling fan might be

457
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: familiar with. Mooda scale is an unofficial means of measuring

458
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: how much blood a pro wrestler has bled via blading

459
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: or juicing. That's when a professional wrestler will intentionally cut

460
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: their forehead with a razor or sometimes there is more

461
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: like a hard juicing technique where it's by actually bumping

462
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: into something, but they will intentionally usually uh cut themselves

463
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: on the forehead. The blood will flow, the blood will

464
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: mix with with sweat and create quite a visual display

465
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: of a bloody face or crimson mask. Is it's sometimes

466
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: called I feel like this is not something you're supposed

467
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: to do in the main circuits right um or it's

468
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: not done as much these days, certainly in modern pro

469
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: wrestling companies like mainstream pro wrestling companies, because of course,

470
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: there are a number of objections one can make to

471
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: intentionally bleeding all over the place, right, But on the

472
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: other hand, it is a highly physical performance and therefore

473
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: people will get busted open accidentally, and sometimes the show

474
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: goes on just bite a little blood. Now is the

475
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: Muda scale named after? Does it come from Sanskrit? No,

476
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: it comes basically it's of Japanese origin because it's referring

477
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: to a pro wrestler, legendary pro wrestler out of Japan

478
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: by the name of Keji Muto, who would also perform,

479
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: especially in the United States, has the Great Muda, And

480
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: it's referring in particular to a nineteen nine New Japan

481
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: Pro Wrestling match with Hiroshi has in which Muda blades

482
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: and just gets a really brilliant crimson mask all over

483
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: his face. His face is just covered in blood and

484
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: so a lot of like Kane, Yeah, it does have

485
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: that kind of It reminds one a lot of various um,

486
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: you know, uh, face painting, Uh scenarios, but it has

487
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: such an impact on pro wrestling fans of that time

488
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: period they kind of decided this would be the starting

489
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: point for considerations of any blade job. Uh. You know,

490
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: where is it on the MOODA scale like a three

491
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: here of four? Does it go beyond the type of

492
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: blood letting that that Muda shows off in this match? Um?

493
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's different from Karma Muda. But at the

494
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: same time, I think the given scenario, like this match,

495
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: you could have the performer themselves feeling a sense of

496
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: Karma Muda. You could have the audience viewing this spectacle, uh,

497
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: certainly feeling this communal sense of Karma muda. You know,

498
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: you're all a part of this big sporting event. It's

499
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of a almost a you know, it's not quite patriotism,

500
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: but like a unity of love for the performance or

501
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: for one of the two or both performers. Oh. I

502
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: think it's absolutely there in fan communities of things, you know,

503
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: people feel a solidarity with their fellow fans based on

504
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: their shared interests. There's an there's an inference of kind

505
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: of like shared values and common cause, even if that

506
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: might not necessarily be the case, kind of feels that way, right,

507
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: Like when if you're a pro wrestling fan, if you

508
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: knew what the Muda scale was, you knew who the

509
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: great Muda uh is, then perhaps when I mentioned it,

510
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: you al too a little bit of that. You felt

511
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: this connection to me and you knew that we we

512
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: shared something in this uh, this brotherhood of blood. All right,

513
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: on that note, we're going to take a break, but

514
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: when we come back, we will jump back in to

515
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: the karma muta. Than alright, we're back. I figured we

516
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: should just take a brief glance and a few of

517
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: the studies out there in UH, in the journals about

518
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: karma muda, this this emerging idea of this this unifying

519
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: emotion based on the intensification of communal sharing. So the

520
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: first one is that I wanted to bring up is

521
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: by fist at all in Emotion Review published in twenty

522
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: nineteen called the Sudden Devotion, Emotion and Karma Muda and

523
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: the Cultural Practices whose function is to evoke it? And

524
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: this paper UH briefly just it argues that quote, cultures

525
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: have evolved diverse practices, institutions, roles, narratives, arts, and artifacts

526
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: whose core function is to evoke karma muda. And it

527
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: also argues that karma muda quote mediates much of human sociality. Uh.

528
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 1: And I think this is probably right, right, I mean

529
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: whether whether or not like the term is the right

530
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: term to use. A huge amount of media and culture

531
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: and art is based on this. It's like watching people

532
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: in the act of this sudden intensification of communal emotion

533
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: and bonding. Yeah. Like, I'm reminded of the very Super

534
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: Bowl ads that come out, like the really emotionally manipulative

535
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: ones that have like animals coming together, people in their pets, etcetera.

536
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: Um and and yeah, it brings people together, perhaps in

537
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: the you know, so you can sell a product to them,

538
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: but still the the the images themselves, the idea of

539
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: the story, the music, it all comes together to create this, uh,

540
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: this shared feeling. Now, this paper in particular does specifically

541
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: mention cuteness as one of these cultural models. And we

542
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: certainly discussed cuteness on our our podcast in the past,

543
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: especially as it concerns monsters and the cutification of formally

544
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: horrifying monsters. Yeah, this is an interesting question, like why

545
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: does cuteness seem to evoke all the same psychological and

546
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: physiological symptoms as comma muda brought on by more traditional stimuli,

547
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: which would include either like communal sharing between one person

548
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: and another, communal sharing between observed others. Um just to

549
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: go quickly to another paper and then we can come

550
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: back to this. Because this has to do with cuteness.

551
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: There's this other one called too cute for Words. Cuteness

552
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: evokes the heartwarming emotion of comma muda, published in Frontiers

553
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: and Psychology in twenty nineteen, and the authors they're hypothesized

554
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: the cuteness is a type of stimulus that makes people

555
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: feel an automatic sense of communal sharing with the cute

556
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: entity just based on the aesthetics of cuteness alone. It's

557
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: it's in line with some of the biological theory about

558
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: the nature of cuteness, which says that cuteness is a

559
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: series of visual skima designed to make adults feel like

560
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: obligated to take care of the cute thing and to

561
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: watch out for its best interests. So the cute face

562
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: asks you for help without any words, and you just

563
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: feel compelled to comply, And it's the assumption of that relationship.

564
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: They hypothesize that that provides the kamma muda link here

565
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: that's why cuteness feels in a way communal. The latest

566
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: cultural example of this, I think would be the child

567
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: m a k a. Baby Yoda from the television series

568
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: The Mandalorian, which spoilers please, yes, now you have you

569
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: haven't been on the internet, so I don't know what

570
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about. It's impossible to avoid the spoiler that

571
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: there is there is a creature that is unofficially called

572
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: baby Yoda in the show. Um, it is never called

573
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: that in the show, just called the child or the

574
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: asset and um, and yeah, you look at it, and

575
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: it really, uh, it really pulls out your heart strings.

576
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: It's really it is really cute. And uh it shares

577
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: us some screen time with none other than Werner Herzog,

578
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: the acclaimed German director and occasional actor, also very cute

579
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: wealth uh more, well, no, he's he's menacing. Let's let's

580
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: make no too. Let's not lie about that for awhelming

581
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: and collective murder. But but he I think he explained

582
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: it well via Indie Wire when he's talking about sharing

583
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: screen time with with the child, he said, it is

584
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: a phenomenal technological achievement. But beyond the technological achievement. It's heartbreaking.

585
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: And apparently, when he learned that they were going to

586
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: shoot alternate takes of these scenes in case they wanted

587
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: to replace the puppet um child with a c g

588
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: I child, he reportedly told them, quote, you are cowards.

589
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: Leave it an ultimately. But but yes, um, the child

590
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: is very cute and the show is is terrific as well.

591
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: But to come back to that that paper, uh, the

592
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: sudden devotion emotion Um. This is what they had to

593
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: say about cuteness in karma muda quote. The fact that cuteness, vulnerability,

594
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: and need evoke karmamuta makes sense given our assumption that

595
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: the phylogenetic source of karmamuta is maternal bonding to newborns.

596
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: The generativity of human karmamuta makes it flexibly adaptive. This

597
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: explains why karmamuta occurs in response to babies, kittens, marriage

598
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: proposals and weddings, rituals of solidarity, religious moments of union

599
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: with divinities, homecomings and reunions, the kindness of strangers, sentimental

600
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: narratives and cinema, addiction, recovery groups, keen spirit, moments in

601
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: war and sports, oratory marketing, choral singing, making and listening

602
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: to music, dancing, rowing, and so forth. I see it though,

603
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: I see it. Yeah, there is this through line and

604
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: like all those things they mentioned that I would not

605
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: have unified in my mind before, but now it's it

606
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: makes sense to me. This concept is interesting to me

607
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: because there is something I feel that's similar when something

608
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: is very cute versus when I have like a moment

609
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: of personal love and connection, versus when I'm I'm part

610
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: of like a political moment that feels positive and significant

611
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: with many other people. Like, those things seem so different.

612
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: What would be unified between them? Why are there these

613
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: similar sensations in the body and kind of feelings in

614
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: the brain. Well, there's a way to bring these together, Joe,

615
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: and that is a baby Yoda. Obviously it's got my vote.

616
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: That thing is going to be used to sell the

617
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: world's awful ast atrocity. How baby Yoda is a holy,

618
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: blameless creature. Okay, to look briefly at another paper that

619
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: Fisk was involved in. Another one is Fisk at all?

620
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: In Evolutionary Studies in Imaginative Culture in seen called the

621
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: best love story of all time, Overcoming all obstacles to

622
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: be reunited evoking Kama Muda and basically here they just

623
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: point out that if you go back through the history

624
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: of literature, one of the most common types of stories

625
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: is that beloved people are separated and then they have

626
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: to overcome overwhelming obstacles in order to get back together. Yeah.

627
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the ram the Ramayana right there at

628
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: the story of rob and Sita separated and then brought

629
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: back together following military conquest and adventure. Yeah. I mean,

630
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: it's there all through ancient literature, you know, the novels

631
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: of the Greco Roman period. You have tons of stuff

632
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: like this. But then to go into like you know,

633
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: modern manipulative cuteness cinema, I just think about how much

634
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: of a sucker I've always been for stories of people

635
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: being reunited with lost pet. It's just an undefendable weakness.

636
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: I remember when I was a kid, the end of

637
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: the movie Homeward Bound. You remember that movie. I wasn't

638
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: a huge fan of my sisters loved it and would

639
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: watch it over and over again, you know, I saw

640
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: multiple times because I was a kid when it was

641
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: out and big and out on video. I think it

642
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: was a good thing for parents or teachers to put

643
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: on you know, uh, and it just destroyed me, like

644
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: this sudden upwelling of uncontrollable happiness and tears at the

645
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: scene spoiler alert where this fictional trio of pets two

646
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: dogs and a cat you know, after a great journey,

647
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: are reunited with their fictional humans. There is an excellent

648
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 1: Futurama episode title Jurassic Bark that evokes the same sort

649
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: of feeling in me every time I really watch it,

650
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: even though it is it is you know, it is

651
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: a comedy as a farce, and despite the fact that

652
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: it expressly dodges such a reunion, like the reunion between

653
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: the human and the dog does not occur, but it

654
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: has such a bitter sweet ending where it is it

655
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: is shown that the the the reunion wanted to happen,

656
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: I guess you could say. And another weird example of

657
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: this uh that and I know you've seen this is

658
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: um uh And this one probably works due mainly to

659
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: the musical choice, but the ending of the Simpsons episode

660
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: Radioactive Man, in which the director returns to Hollywood after

661
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: this grueling experience of filming on location in Springfield where everybody,

662
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: the politicians, the townspeople, they're all taking advantage of these

663
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: poor Hollywood types. And then he comes back and he's

664
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: welcomed back into Hollywood with open arms. And then the

665
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: Bill Withers classic lean on Me begins playing. Uh, and

666
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: then they you know, they pan out and it it

667
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: it's it's a satirical moment, but clearly they're you know,

668
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: they're they're playing with this idea of you know, of

669
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: of Hollywood versus small town morality, etcetera. But since they're

670
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: playing lean on Me, it gets me every time, Like

671
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: it makes me feel all the fields. Despite the satirical

672
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: nature of the content, that song is like the perfect

673
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: karma muta song. It is, yeah, lean on Me when

674
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 1: you're not strong. Yeah, it's it's about trust and depending

675
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: on each other. Yeah, it's just pure, uncut common mood. Uh.

676
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: And I would also say there seem to be major

677
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: genres of internet media that are based entirely on exploiting

678
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: people's desire to feel common mooda like emotions at the

679
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: push of a button over and over again. It's like

680
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: your you know, your cocaine button in the rat cage,

681
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: except it's karma muda, you know, the the upworthy style

682
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: of stuff. The video is titled like he almost kicked

683
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: a turtle into the trash compactor, but what happens next

684
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: will melt your heart. Yeah, and you want to click

685
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: because yeah, I'm like, okay, I'm I want to have

686
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: my heart melted. Let's do it. Yeah. But this kind

687
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: of content is incredibly potent for virality. You know, when

688
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: there are these like studies about what kind of content

689
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: actually goes viral. Uh, there's a reason that these media

690
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: companies went for content like that, because that stuff hits

691
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: the button. I mean, I think because of our negative

692
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: view of virality, we often tend to think of like

693
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: kind of nasty memes as being the most viral content.

694
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: But this karma muda exploitation video stuff is hugely viral. Yeah.

695
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: To come back to the corna McCarthy quote about about

696
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: the snowflake and the fleeting nature of the feeling. Uh,

697
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: one solution is, oh, well, well, it's all right, there

698
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: are a lot of snowflakes in the air. I will

699
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: just run around all day catching them and do nothing else,

700
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: just to get that hit after hit after hit of

701
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 1: good old fashioned common motive feeling. Uh. So, Luckily, there's

702
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: a there's a there's a machine in my hand with

703
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: a program that is designed to do nothing but just

704
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: keep clicking. Yeah. I mean, I guess I don't know.

705
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe there are downsides that I'm not thinking of.

706
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's better that people keep watching

707
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: stuff like that they go down some horrible radicalizing YouTube

708
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: trail or something and end up a member of the

709
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 1: anti human Front or whatever, anti human but pro baby

710
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: Yoda where you end up in landing. I guess yeah, okay, okay, sorry,

711
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: next study just quickly. This is one called Moment to

712
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: moment changes and feeling moved match changes in closeness, tears,

713
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: goose bumps, and warmth time series analysis, published in eighteen

714
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: by Schubert at All. This study looked at the moment

715
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: went to moments sensations like body sensations of people experiencing

716
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: what the researchers believed to be karma muda, as evoked

717
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: by video clips showing scenes meant to display these intense

718
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: communal sharing relationships, these moments when these relationships intensify and uh.

719
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: The study found strong and consistent cross correlations between clips

720
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: that people scored with karma muda associated words like moved

721
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: or touched distinct from clips that were judged as merely

722
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: happy or sad. This is like a separate thing than

723
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: being happy or sad, and that the Kama Muda clips

724
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 1: were associated with this with moment to moment physiological symptoms

725
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: or sensations of tears or moisteness in the eyes, goose

726
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: bumps or chills, and feelings of warmth in the center

727
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: of the chest. So again back to what we were

728
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, there were a couple of studies that

729
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: looked at a cross cultural analyzes basically like is there

730
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: a similar thing going on across different languages and cultures.

731
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: There was one study that looked at UH the United States, Norway, China, Israel,

732
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: and Portugal published in the Journal of Cross Cultural Psychology

733
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: in teen by Cibit at all Uh, and this just

734
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: generally did find that there was there was a lot

735
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: of consistency across the different cultures. And then there was

736
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: another one published in the journal Emotion in twenty nineteen

737
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: by zike Field at all UH looking at nineteen different

738
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: nations across fifteen different languages, three thousand five dred and

739
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: forty two participants to see if there was consistency about

740
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: which types of experiences evoked karmamoda like emotions h to

741
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: read from their abstract quote. Our results are congruent with

742
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: theory and previous findings showing that karma muda is a

743
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: distinct positive social relational emotion that is evoked by experiencing

744
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: or observing a sudden intensification of communal sharing. It is

745
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: commonly accompanied by a warm feeling in the chest, moist

746
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: eyes or tears, chills or pilo erection, feeling choked up

747
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: or having a lump in the throat, buoyancy, and a zilaration.

748
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: It motivates affective devotion and moral commitment to communal sharing.

749
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: While we observed some variations across cultures, these five facets

750
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: of karma muda are highly correlated in every sample, supporting

751
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: the validity of the construct in the measure. So it

752
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: looks like this is, at least according to this research

753
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: we're looking at so far, this is a pretty universal

754
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: emotion and that we might have some different words for

755
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: it across different cultures, but there's something pretty consistent going

756
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: on about like what types of things we can see

757
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: or be a part of, and what kinds of feelings

758
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: it gives throughout the body, and what kind of behaviors

759
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: it triggers in us afterwards. So what do we learn

760
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: by naming and characterizing an emotion? We sort of started

761
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: off by talking about this a bit. Yeah, and you know,

762
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: I have to say that this my initial reaction to

763
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: this topic, not being familiar with the the particular concept,

764
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: with the named concept of karma muta, my initial response

765
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: was what good does this dois? Why do we need this? Uh?

766
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: Be and and uh you know, And I'm I'm not

767
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 1: to say that I was completely biased against it, but

768
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: because I'm but the thing is, I'm clearly already experiencing

769
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: these emotional states, right, but for more nuanced reasons, with

770
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: more nuanced terminology, do I really need to catch all

771
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: Sanskrit term to refer to them? Uh? And uh And

772
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: That's been something I'm just trying to to figure out now. Now.

773
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: Certainly I'm not opposed to bringing in Sanskrit terms or

774
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: Sanskrit Loan words or or you know, words from say

775
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: Hindu or Buddhist u Um religion, you know, because I

776
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: think that a lot of times these are very useful terms,

777
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: such as things like say Brahmin and sam Sara. I

778
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: think these can be incredibly helpful and and they certainly

779
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: stem from a language and a culture that devoted a

780
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of mental energy to contemplating psychological and metaphysical concepts.

781
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: But in this particular instance, does kama muta like really

782
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: help us out? I could not help. But but think

783
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: about another case in which we have reached out to

784
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: another language for a term that we have they were

785
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: lacking in English to describe an emotional, very specific emotional state,

786
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: and that is the German concept of schadenfreude, which is

787
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: the pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. Like,

788
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: we don't have a specific term for it, like a

789
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: single word for it in English, but in German, uh,

790
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: they have it and and it is kind of useful

791
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: I think, to be able to take schadenfreude out of

792
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: the German language and then use it as a way

793
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: to reflect on how we're feeling about things in our life. Well,

794
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: the fact that we now have a loan word for

795
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: it in English, I think that makes it much easier

796
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: for us to recognize when it's happening, to say, I

797
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: am feeling schadenfreude and not something more useful like actual sympathy.

798
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: To be able to draw a line between sympathy and

799
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: schadenfreuda despite the fact that they are very they're very connected, Like,

800
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's the kind of the flip side of

801
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: the coin. Um, you know, we can this gives us

802
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: again the power to label, to discuss it, to pull

803
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: it aside and UH and even then lean into the

804
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: more positive UH side of the coin, to lean into sympathy.

805
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: But that brings us back to karmamuta because instead of

806
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: going from broad to specific, as we're feeling with with schadenfreuda,

807
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: how about how does karma mouda help us? How does

808
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: it help us to be able to go instead of

809
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: from the large too small, to go from the small

810
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: to the large. Well, I mean, I think one thing,

811
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: if they're on the right track. I mean, obviously these

812
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: researchers could could maybe be wrong about this, but you know,

813
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: it looks like there's a body of research building up

814
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: here that's pretty supportive of the idea that this is

815
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: actually a fairly consistent phenomenon across cultures. There are these

816
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: like things linking all these disparate UH phenomena, and there

817
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 1: are of course plenty of emotional states that are broad,

818
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: like happiness is extremely broad the situations that cause happiness

819
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: or or you know, you can't list them all, right,

820
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: But then again, nobody's coming along and saying, Hey, I

821
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: want to tell you about this new concept. It's called happiness.

822
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: The only one thing that did come to mind that

823
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: reminded me a little bit about this though, um is

824
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: via a say, partial understanding of serotonin or media overuse

825
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: of serotonin, the discussion of serantonin serotonin, we end up

826
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: reminding ourselves of neurotransmitters in regard to any given emotional state,

827
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: you know where, So what do you mean. I'm saying like,

828
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna come along and have to explain to you

829
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: what happiness is. But at some point in your life someone,

830
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: like much later someone might have come along and said, hey,

831
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: let me talk to you about that happiness and what

832
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: you're and let me tell you about serotonin's role and

833
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: how you're feeling. Are you saying like giving you a

834
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: good explanation of serotonin's role or oversimplified oversimplified version, which

835
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: I think is the version that we often encounter, uh,

836
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: certainly just in the media at large, and perhaps we

837
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: encounter for the first time, combined with sort of they

838
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: need more serotonin than I can be happy, right yeah.

839
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: Or it's also just kind of like when you first

840
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: hear about it, you may have it. You will probably

841
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 1: have an incomplete understanding of it, and that may also

842
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 1: lean into this this understanding of it. So on one level,

843
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of a making something familiar new again with

844
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: new terminology. I wonder if karma mutas kind of it

845
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 1: kind of provides that it kind of takes this sort

846
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: of broad you know, area of the fields. It gives

847
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: them a new term, and then ultimately it does allow

848
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: us to to potentially analyze it a new to think

849
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: of it in a new light without actually recategorizing it

850
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 1: is something drastically different. I mean, I think again, if

851
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: the researchers are on the right track here, I think

852
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: one thing that could be useful about it is that

853
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: you when you identify a phenomenon where a bunch of

854
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: things that previously looked unrelated are actually very related, new

855
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: cause and effect relationships occur to you as possible, and

856
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: you can start testing for them. So, for example, one

857
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: thing that that seems to come out of this is

858
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: that uh karma muda seems to at least in some

859
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: of this research motivate a sense of increased community with

860
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: the objects of whatever you're watching. So if you watch

861
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: a you know, video of two people having this this

862
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: moment that makes you feel the karma muda, you feel

863
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: increased community. You don't just feel the fields in your

864
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: chest and all that. You feel increased community with the

865
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: people in the video. And I think another potential way

866
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: to look at this in a positive way would be

867
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: when you don't understand what's bringing people together. Say you

868
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: turn on the news and there are some protesters and

869
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: you don't agree with what they're protesting about, or you're

870
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: on the other side if they're protest and you need

871
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: to understand them. Or if you, like me, are not

872
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: a like team sports person and you find everyone else

873
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: in your city is obsessed with the local soccer team

874
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: um or let's say you're not a religious person and

875
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: you see footage or you see friends and family engaging

876
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: in a religious experience. We're going to church and and

877
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: you and maybe you don't completely understand what they're doing.

878
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: But if you if you define it all under a

879
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: kamma muta, you can look to the examples of comma

880
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: muta that you do engage with and then potentially have

881
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: a better understanding, or at least some understanding of why

882
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: people are united in protest here, why people are in

883
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: a house of worship here, or why people are all

884
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: wearing the same color and going to a colisseum here.

885
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 1: Right to understand that. You know, you might not get

886
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: what people like about sports, but there's some similarity in

887
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: the feelings in the body and the pleasure that pervades

888
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: your brain when you experience cute kitten videos that other

889
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: people do when they're part of a team sports thing. Yeah,

890
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 1: everything is baby Yoda. Basically, that's the thing to drive home.

891
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: If you don't understand it, just remind yourself that's baby

892
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: Yoda to you. All right, So there you have it.

893
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: Karma muta. Obviously, we would love to hear from everybody

894
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: about this because this concerns a broad categorization of human

895
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: emotion that we can all relate to. Uh, So, hit

896
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: us up with your examples, your thoughts, your contemplation on

897
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: what we've discussed here. Does the term karma muta? Does

898
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: that help you? Uh? Or do you feel like it

899
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: is in some way a hindrance? I don't know. We're

900
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: open to discussion on all of that. In the meantime,

901
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: if you want to check out other episodes of Stuff

902
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind, you can find us wherever you

903
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: find your podcasts. Um the Mothership is no longer with us,

904
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: but you can still go to stuff to Blow your

905
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: Mind dot com and that will redirect you to the

906
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: I heart Media listing for our podcast. But wherever you

907
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: get the podcast, just make sure you rate, and you

908
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: review and you subscribe. Uh. These are the three acts

909
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: of devotion that help us out in the long run.

910
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: Huge things. As always to our excellent audio producer Seth

911
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

912
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode, it or any other,

913
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: to suggest topic for the future, just to say hi,

914
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

915
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

916
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more

917
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

918
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.