1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:09,120
Speaker 1: Mmm, Hello friends, and welcome again to Behind the Bastards.

2
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,559
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans, your host on yet another journey into

3
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 1: the life and mind of one of the worst people

4
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,640
Speaker 1: in all of history. My guest today is Caitlin gil. Hey,

5
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 1: that's me. Caitlyn gil is a comedian. Yeah, presumably some

6
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 1: some would argue that. And you're involved in a television production. Yes,

7
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 1: that's happening now, it happened, and it's about to come

8
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: out July. Levans. Tune into True TVs, Misfits and Monsters.

9
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 1: Bobcat Goldwhite made a fun TV show and I bet

10
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,159
Speaker 1: you're gonna like it, so watch it when it's on.

11
00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 1: So on this episode of the show, I will be

12
00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,280
Speaker 1: talking to a vastly more accomplished comedian and reading a

13
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: story about a bad person in history. I live in

14
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,519
Speaker 1: a backyard, don't worry about it. We all live in yards.

15
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: That's not bragging that yours is a backyard. It's true.

16
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 1: I have moved back from the front yard. That feels good,

17
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I'm living on a porch for a while,

18
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,320
Speaker 1: and it is not ideal. Um. Speaking of porches, Uh,

19
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: what do you know about the Cambodian mass killings in

20
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. I know that it is one of

21
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,960
Speaker 1: the most nineties brutally depressing aspects of history you can

22
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: look at. Wasn't it like fifties forward? It was long

23
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 1: and really dad, there was a lot of ship going

24
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 1: on from the fifties forward. It's like a million plus yeah. Yeah.

25
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,759
Speaker 1: The mass killing started in nineteen seventy five, went through

26
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,680
Speaker 1: to like seventy seventy nine, but three and a half

27
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: years the Camar Rouge was in power. What do you

28
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: know about the camar Rouge and pol pot lit um?

29
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean some I have a political science degree and

30
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: I paid attention in those classes, but that was fifteen

31
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 1: years ago, so my updated history not so great. But

32
00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,680
Speaker 1: in the past I was disgustingly fascinated. It seems like

33
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 1: one of the most cruel Oh yeah, regimes that has

34
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 1: ever gotten to spend some time in power. Real bad,

35
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: real real bad, real bad people, And it was one

36
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: of those things. So when we started this podcast, you know,

37
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,680
Speaker 1: I had some some people that I clearly had plans for.

38
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about Hitler's favorite young adult novels

39
00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 1: and Saddam Hussein's erotic memoirs and all that sort of stuff,

40
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,639
Speaker 1: and then there were people where was like, yeah, we're

41
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,519
Speaker 1: probably gonna do a Pulpot episode at some point, but

42
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything more than like what I

43
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: had learned in high school about him, which is like, yeah,

44
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,120
Speaker 1: he killed like a million and a half people. They

45
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: had people with glasses murdered for some reason, like and

46
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,519
Speaker 1: that's that's the end of the And you figure it's

47
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 1: like the same story with a guy like Hitler Stalin,

48
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 1: where it was just some asshole who wound up in

49
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 1: charge and just started murdering the groups of people they hated.

50
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,640
Speaker 1: And so I I didn't really know much about pol Pot,

51
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,040
Speaker 1: and I started reading into the story recently, and I

52
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 1: read a great book called pol Pot The Anatomy of Terror,

53
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 1: And then that set me down a whole reading hole.

54
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: In anyway, I wound up realizing that the most interesting character,

55
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 1: the most terrible person behind all of this is not

56
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,959
Speaker 1: pol Pot himself. Uh, And instead it's a different guy,

57
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 1: a different person entirely. Prince nor Dam saynok, have you

58
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: ever heard of that? I have not heard of this?

59
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: Prince well? Uh, somdetch. Priya Nora Dam Sahannak was born

60
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 1: in Nonpen, Cambodia on October thirty one, nineteen twenty two.

61
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 1: He was a member of both of Cambodia's two leading

62
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 1: royal families, the Sissoots and the Nora Dams, but he

63
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 1: was not born as the heir apparent. So Cambodia has

64
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 1: like a different sort of way of appointing their kings. Nowadays,

65
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: there's like a royal council that sort of is a

66
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 1: mix of elected and unelected people who votes on the

67
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 1: new king. Back when he was born, the French were

68
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 1: in charge of Cambodia and so they would appoint new

69
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 1: kings when the king died. Um. Yeah, so Nordon was

70
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 1: an only child, uh, and since this was the twenties,

71
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 1: his parents were terrified he was going to die on them.

72
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 1: They consulted an astrologer, which was a normal thing to

73
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 1: do at the time. Like everybody in Cambodia right after

74
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 1: the Russians thought it was a good idea to talk

75
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: to rescue and yeah, this is within five years of

76
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 1: that is almost happening. But mystics are still like maybe

77
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm medicine. Yeah, it's like you get a flu in

78
00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,040
Speaker 1: your families, Like, well, I guess that's it for you,

79
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 1: and single prince and only child. Prince can't have any

80
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 1: appearance of injury or illness anyway, So you get real

81
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,520
Speaker 1: creepy about how you know. It's a lot of secrets

82
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: really early, especially if you're talking to mystic. Something's wrong

83
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,080
Speaker 1: with that kid, Yeah, I don't know. It leads a

84
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 1: lot or like can't breathe good or I don't know.

85
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,919
Speaker 1: They were just worried and the ast you have to

86
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,280
Speaker 1: assume they're all lumpy babies. Every baby is lumpy. How

87
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 1: are you the only child and not in line for

88
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,560
Speaker 1: a throne? Well he was in line for it, but

89
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't a guarantee. So he was like, you know,

90
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 1: you've got a certain who could could be there. The

91
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: flies are big, and so the prince are like, okay,

92
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 1: well there's like nine or ten kids we get to

93
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 1: pick from um, And he was obviously like it wasn't guaranteed,

94
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 1: but he was in the running. So his parents were

95
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 1: very concerned about him and the attack to an astrologery,

96
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 1: and the astrologer warned that if he was raised by

97
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 1: his mom and dad, he would die early. So as

98
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: a young boy, Noradam was raised by his grandmother, Madame Chauhunt.

99
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: She was like, you're describing a very bleak version of

100
00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: the movie big Yes, that's this entire story. Uh, there

101
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: is a giant. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be great. Oh

102
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking about big Fish, Big Fish, very

103
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 1: different films. Yeah. I just like that, Like I don't

104
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,600
Speaker 1: let him grow up with my parents anymore. I want

105
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: to be a big kid right now. Only a very

106
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 1: dark evil version. Yeah. Um, those old hand it's like

107
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 1: a it's like a source, you know, an astrologer screaming

108
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,039
Speaker 1: your parents. Boy, I really got that movie wrong. He's

109
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 1: talking about the Tom Hanks film. Oh yeah, I'm talking

110
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 1: about the Yeah, the piano. I'm talking about a Cambodian dictator.

111
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,800
Speaker 1: You did bring up another one of history's great monsters.

112
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 1: But we haven't done our Tom Hanks. Um, but he

113
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,760
Speaker 1: definitely belongs. Oh the tea you could spill. Uh. So

114
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,000
Speaker 1: his grandmother's really religious. Uh. She's a Buddhist known for

115
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,200
Speaker 1: giving a lot of money to monks, which was, you know,

116
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,040
Speaker 1: pretty popular at the time. Uh. She dies when he's

117
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,000
Speaker 1: a young boy. Um, and immediately after she dies, he's

118
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 1: ordained as a monk for exactly twenty four hours. Um.

119
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,360
Speaker 1: That was like a thing in Cambodian culture where everybody

120
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 1: was and it was really common for like if your

121
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,480
Speaker 1: family had any money at all, they'd send you away

122
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 1: to learn how to be a monk for a little while.

123
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 1: So it's not like the universal Church that you sign

124
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 1: up for just to marry your friends. It is it

125
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 1: is for him, so for a normal camp, so for

126
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,080
Speaker 1: the for the prince, because he might be the king.

127
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 1: Anytime you might be a leader, they send you off

128
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 1: to be a monk for exactly a day, um, just

129
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 1: so he can say like, no, he's enlightened, he's been

130
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,280
Speaker 1: a monk, like he's he's a he's a monk king

131
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,680
Speaker 1: sort of thing. I was important. If you were a

132
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: normal Cambodian who was like middle class or up, you'd

133
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 1: also be a month but monk, but you'd be there

134
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 1: for months. And the training for non king monks was brutal.

135
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,159
Speaker 1: Here's how a normal Cambodian at the time explained, like

136
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 1: what the actual monks went through. If you came to

137
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: the wat as a novice, you had to study for

138
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 1: three months before you were allowed to wear the robe.

139
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 1: You were taught the etiquette of a monk, how to

140
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 1: put on the robe, how to speak, how to walk,

141
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,680
Speaker 1: how to put your palms together to show respect. And

142
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 1: you were given a thrashing if you didn't do as

143
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: they said. If you didn't walk correctly, you were beaten.

144
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,520
Speaker 1: You had to walk quietly and slowly, without making any

145
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: sound with your feet, and you weren't allowed to swing

146
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 1: your arms. You had to move serenely. You had to

147
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 1: learn by heart in Poli the rules of conduct and

148
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 1: the Buddhist precepts that you could cite them without hesitation.

149
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 1: If you hesitated, you were beaten. Yeah, that's like getting

150
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 1: an honorary degree from like the worst university. Yeah, like

151
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 1: Cobra Kai University. Everybody's everybody's getting beaten except for the prince,

152
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: who shows up for one day and he gets to

153
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 1: be a monk straightaway. Um. So, as a young child,

154
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 1: the prince goes to school in Saigon, over in Vietnam,

155
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,680
Speaker 1: and then he goes to France. He gets a really

156
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: nice Western education. He develops a love for the arts

157
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: and for French cooking. His mother nicknames him tool or

158
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,920
Speaker 1: Tubby on this but at this point I'm on his side.

159
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,360
Speaker 1: I get it. France is pretty irresistible. If you're just

160
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 1: like a portly rich Cambodian prince, honestly just kicking in France. Baby, Like,

161
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 1: if that's what you're into, then be there. There's a

162
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 1: food is great in both places, but so different. Go

163
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: be a tubby in France. Yeah. So he spends a

164
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 1: lot of time as a young man being a fat

165
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,520
Speaker 1: kid in France, while other young Cambodian kids are getting

166
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 1: beaten to learn how to be monkst So so far,

167
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 1: I'm just jealousy. Everybody's probably jealous. Um So in nineteen

168
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 1: his grandfather, who was the current king, dies and the

169
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: French you know, have to pick from the options in

170
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 1: the royal families, and one they decide to bet on

171
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: Nora dam Sando because he seemed like the choice who'd

172
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 1: give them the least grief. Uh, this is what he

173
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: looked like on the day he was ordained. And we'll

174
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,600
Speaker 1: have these pictures up on the behind the pastors. There's

175
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,160
Speaker 1: no reason to shame him, ye, I feel like this

176
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: is what makes me feel like his mom is probably

177
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 1: giving him a complex because that's not a fat kid.

178
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,560
Speaker 1: He does have evil eyes. I want like, when you

179
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,360
Speaker 1: look at the picture, it looks like even just printed

180
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: out on computer paper. I feel like he is across

181
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: a bar and like raising his eyebrow at me. There's

182
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 1: something for a while. Yeah, it's like a painting that

183
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,480
Speaker 1: looks at you when you move across the room. This

184
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 1: is the guy that leers at you from across the bar,

185
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,760
Speaker 1: only in in photograph form. But he's kind of hot,

186
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,600
Speaker 1: Like I'm not Maddie's looking at me, except I know

187
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 1: he's trouble, you know. Yeah, and if you knew that

188
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,120
Speaker 1: his mom had called him fat his whole childhood, like, oh,

189
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,959
Speaker 1: there's some arness going on, there's issues. I don't want

190
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 1: to I mean, this is a good time for me

191
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,600
Speaker 1: to assess that he's kind of handsome and say that

192
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,199
Speaker 1: out loud before I hear about all the horrible things

193
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,040
Speaker 1: that he did hesber. Handsome people can be really bad,

194
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 1: bad people. Handsome people with it has to be said.

195
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,120
Speaker 1: Fabulous beautiful people are evil, never forget. Yeah, you can

196
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 1: tell by his cheekbones that he's dangerous. So one the

197
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,200
Speaker 1: French government that appoints him isn't really France, it's visu France.

198
00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,160
Speaker 1: You know, the Germans had conquered them. So he was

199
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,319
Speaker 1: appointed king by the puppet government for the Nazi occupiers.

200
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 1: Their leader, Marshall Pataine, became the leader of Cambodia as well.

201
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 1: The children who grew up in Cambodia's public schools at

202
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 1: the time were educated to pertain as standards which emphasized unity, order,

203
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,079
Speaker 1: and labor. The city was seen as the incarnation of

204
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: all evil, and peasant life was highlighted as the soul

205
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 1: of the nation. One of the children in these schools

206
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 1: was a guy named Saloth Sar who would grow into

207
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 1: a guy named pol Pot. Um. Just a little bit

208
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,680
Speaker 1: of foreboding there. Um, So Cambodia is in an awkward

209
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,680
Speaker 1: position nearing World War two. Pol pot came from a

210
00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: much different social status, not a prince, not a prince,

211
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 1: kind of upper middle class, not rich, but but his

212
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 1: family is doing okay, Yeah, he's still Yeah, he comes

213
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 1: from a pretty bougie little background. Um. But he had

214
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,679
Speaker 1: to do the full monk training too. So he's the

215
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 1: guy getting the ship kicked out of him by monks

216
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 1: and learning about how cities are evil in school, while

217
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 1: the actual king is flying to France and developing a

218
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,599
Speaker 1: complex because his mom calls him fat. So Cambodia is

219
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 1: in an awkward position during World War Two. France is

220
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 1: technically an access ally at this point like the VC France,

221
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,960
Speaker 1: but the Japanese eventually went up conquering Cambodia just a

222
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,880
Speaker 1: couple of months after the prince gets coronated, so Siano

223
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 1: now becomes Japan's puppet and proclaims Cambodian independence. Obviously, that

224
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 1: didn't last longer than five As soon as the war

225
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,959
Speaker 1: is over, Sianic starts advocating for more independence from France.

226
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,960
Speaker 1: He introduced universal male suffrage to his country and press freedom,

227
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,760
Speaker 1: and he establishes an elected parliament. So so far, he

228
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 1: seems pretty enlightened for a king in Cambodia in the forties.

229
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,200
Speaker 1: If you're a Cambodian dude, if you're a Cambodian dude, well,

230
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 1: you can't just go from zero to letting women vote.

231
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 1: You can't just go from siero to human writes for humans. Sorry,

232
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 1: I know. Also bleating rag feminist over here? What are

233
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,360
Speaker 1: you huh? Sorry? I mean it was this was twenty

234
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,439
Speaker 1: five years after we decided. When we just love the

235
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 1: phrase universal male suffrage, Like you don't get to universal

236
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: and then immediately qualified universal to specifically when it's just

237
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 1: a funny universe people I like suffrage. Yes, that's all

238
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,240
Speaker 1: the people I like it to vote. Yes, Yeah, you're

239
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,959
Speaker 1: all universally invited to my birthday party, except only ten

240
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,079
Speaker 1: if you can come. Yeah. But he's woke by forties standards, Yes, yeah,

241
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 1: he's woke if you lower the bar, yes, so so

242
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 1: our forties woke king is uh. A lot of Cambodians

243
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 1: at the time, the ones who were living in like

244
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 1: cities and towns, who were educated and kind of plugged

245
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,840
Speaker 1: into the world, it probably seemed like they were slowly

246
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 1: sort of joining modernity and heading towards the kind of

247
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,040
Speaker 1: system England has where you get a king, but the

248
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,920
Speaker 1: king's kind of a just a figure to yeah, look pretty.

249
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: We care about their weddings and ship but like that's

250
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,240
Speaker 1: kind of what people were hoping for, what a lot

251
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,679
Speaker 1: of people were hoping for. But it's very different outside

252
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,199
Speaker 1: of the city's so in rural Cambodia, probably about a

253
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,560
Speaker 1: quarter of Cambodian peasants of the country, like the real

254
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,560
Speaker 1: deep peasants had never used money at all in their lives. Um,

255
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 1: the burning Man, I'm just that was terrible. Yeah, it's

256
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,959
Speaker 1: kind of like burning Man, but with subsistence. Yeah yeah, yeah,

257
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: but if you don't farm enough rice, you starve. Yeah,

258
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 1: didn't spend seven thousand dollars to get there, and you

259
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 1: don't have like a dust mask, and there's no glowsticks. Yeah,

260
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 1: well there's otherwise you have to assume there's glow sticks.

261
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love it if somebody who's never used

262
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 1: currency in their entire life and has just lived from

263
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: the land that they're on for generations and you happen

264
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 1: to be passing by and they're just glows sticking, Like

265
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,240
Speaker 1: where did you get those silent rave that's been going

266
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 1: on for millennia that we just didn't know about a

267
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,000
Speaker 1: thousand year old rave. It's like the thousand year old

268
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,079
Speaker 1: had only so much more fun. So the king is

269
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,439
Speaker 1: not a figurehead to the peasants. He's he's kind of

270
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 1: he's seen. He's seen a sort of a figurehead in

271
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: the cities. To the peasants. He's semi divine. I'm going

272
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 1: to read a description of royal court life from that

273
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 1: book Pullpot The Anatomy of Terry, that I think sort

274
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,080
Speaker 1: of sets up kind of how the king is seen

275
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 1: by the country people. Each spring crowds gathered to watch

276
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 1: the royal oxen plow the sacred furrow, and all of

277
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 1: those things are capitalized, from which the king's astrologer would

278
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 1: divine whether or not there would be plenty or famine

279
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 1: in the year ahead. And at tank talk the king's birthday,

280
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 1: the provincial governors came to pay homage. Royal protocol was

281
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,840
Speaker 1: draconian in his palace. If no longer in the colonized

282
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 1: state over which he reigned, the king was still an

283
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,040
Speaker 1: absolute ruler. The Master of life, venerated by the populace,

284
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,480
Speaker 1: is a sacred, quasi divine figure. At royal audiences, the

285
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,440
Speaker 1: prince's mandarins and other dignitaries crouch on all fours, with

286
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: their knees and elbows on the floor and their hands

287
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,440
Speaker 1: raised together before their heads. The King sits above them

288
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: and throned on a dais, sitting cross legged like an

289
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 1: Indian idol. When he enters or leaves, all present prostrate

290
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: themselves at three times. No one has the right to

291
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 1: speak unless the King addresses him, and no one may

292
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 1: publicly disagree with anything the King says. So you're already

293
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 1: saying sort of a disconnect between you've got the people

294
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,640
Speaker 1: in the cities who are like listening to the radio,

295
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: they're watching TV, they're getting the newspapers, and then you've

296
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: got the people who and then there's people still on

297
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 1: the farm. Yeah. Yeah, the king makes the rain come, um,

298
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: which is not like a joke. That's like, that's like

299
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,800
Speaker 1: a widespread belief. So there's already a big disconnect here. Um.

300
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 1: So the camera language and the camera like the majority

301
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 1: of people of Cambodia has its own special sub language

302
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 1: for how to talk to the king. So there's like

303
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 1: a separate dictionary of words you just used to refer

304
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: to the king and his family. The king was seen

305
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 1: as impossibly high above even as high ministers, who are

306
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 1: known non jokingly as quote, we who carry the king's

307
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: excrement on our heads. So that's I mean, it's come on.

308
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 1: That is a little bit tongue in cheek, like, yeah,

309
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 1: you we got your ship on our head, buddy, like you.

310
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 1: This is a little bit and a few more pages

311
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: if you think that was joking, or if you think

312
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 1: that it wasn't literally even, but it's got a there's

313
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,720
Speaker 1: a wink in there somewhere. There's a jester in the court. Yeah,

314
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 1: there might be a couple of winks. I'll eat my

315
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,440
Speaker 1: words later. I won't eat the king species, but I will.

316
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,800
Speaker 1: I'll be happy to eat my words. Yeah, so this

317
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 1: is you can imagine. You know, guy grows up with

318
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 1: his mom calling him tubby, and now nobody is allowed

319
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 1: to argue with him, and he's philosophically shipping I was

320
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 1: a tubby kid. We do not deserve power until we

321
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: go through an unpack our trauma. You can't you can't

322
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: hand uh. You know, you can take the fat off

323
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 1: the kid. You can't take the fat kid out of

324
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: the fat kid, just because there's the I'm an only

325
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 1: child who was tubby. Trust trust trust. Oh yeah, I

326
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 1: grew up as a fat kid. And you know it's

327
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: one of those things where when you see a fat

328
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 1: kid who loses weight, like that's someone who didn't deal

329
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 1: with their trauma, who's just like trying to control themselves

330
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 1: and their body through Like there's something dark in there,

331
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: is all I'm saying. Oh yeah, yeah, it's not. You

332
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 1: have to shine the light in your own darkness. And

333
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, whatever happened to you in the bathroom, in

334
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 1: the locker room, or on the playground, eventually you have

335
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: to shine a little light on it, or you become

336
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 1: a dictator if you happen to be a prince. Yeah,

337
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 1: well what he just became like a bad assistant manager,

338
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 1: you know. I think that's what most people do. But

339
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: it depends on your access. That's where you start from.

340
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: Usually you go for a tiny amount of power, but

341
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 1: he he kind of got on the mad was my

342
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: moderate amount of power. So we're talking old fashioned kings here.

343
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 1: Nor Dam's grandfather was famous for having a gigantic harem

344
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 1: made up of beautiful local ladies for the late thirties.

345
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 1: He was too old and sickly to make use of them. Um.

346
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 1: So these ladies weren't allowed to go out and live

347
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: their own lives. They got frustrated and things got weird. Um.

348
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: One of the ladies courted by the old king was

349
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 1: a girl named Rung. She was the older sister to

350
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 1: Saloth Sar, the guy who became pol Pot. He was

351
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 1: about fifteen at this point in time, and his sister's

352
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,080
Speaker 1: position meant he got to spend some time hanging around

353
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 1: the royal palace. Since he was just fifteen, he was

354
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 1: even allowed to hang out with the king's cortisans and

355
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 1: they would fondle him. Um, so that's pol Pot's fifteen

356
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,640
Speaker 1: year old childhood is like hang out in the royal

357
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 1: Palace and getting like like literally masturbated by the king's

358
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: ford horny cortis. Yeah, exactly, exactly, So just describing like

359
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:15,360
Speaker 1: a very high class Charles Manson existence. Yeah, Charles Manson's mom,

360
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: you know, a bit of a she is a girl

361
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: about town. I think that's actually how he described her.

362
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: And and you know he got traded for beer. But yeah,

363
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,199
Speaker 1: who the man who became Pulpot just got jerked off

364
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 1: by a bunch of royal cartissy. It's the same, different,

365
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,600
Speaker 1: it is the same but different. Apparently that's my job

366
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 1: here today. Here's something that's like what you're talking about,

367
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 1: but not well no, but it's it's good to point

368
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 1: out that this this story that starts with yes, in

369
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,160
Speaker 1: a different country, at a different class level, and it

370
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 1: is it's also a bad ending. Yes, this is not

371
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:45,879
Speaker 1: a good jump. It's not a good thing to do

372
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: to a fifteen year old. Fifteen year old maybe like

373
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 1: if you happen to get rubbed off when you were fifteen, congratulations,

374
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: and I bet you're fine. I hope for most of you.

375
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 1: It is a positive memory. If you're a fifteen year

376
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,919
Speaker 1: old being jerked off by a royal harem, that is

377
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,360
Speaker 1: going to change your path. It's going to change your path.

378
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,439
Speaker 1: That's different than like you're you're you're dating somebody in

379
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,159
Speaker 1: high school. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, either going to be

380
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: an interesting sex educator or apparently a dangerous dictator. Yeah yeah,

381
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: and probably the second. So yeah, this is the sort

382
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 1: of environment cultural environment norad dom Sahanna comes to power

383
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,919
Speaker 1: in um, you know, he's he's the king, and so

384
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 1: he's he's dealing with both Like you've got these people

385
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 1: in the cities who they're supposed to treat him like

386
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: a god, but they don't because he's just this they

387
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 1: know he's just like this guy, and they're trying to

388
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 1: be like, well, let's be a normal country that doesn't

389
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: worship the king. But then he's got these people in

390
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 1: the in the sticks who to whom he's literally a deity.

391
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 1: So you can you can see how this would cause

392
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 1: some conflicts within the king and within the country. I

393
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 1: feel like for any crafty con man, crisis is opportunity.

394
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: This is a great you know, you wink a not

395
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 1: on one side and you and you get to grease

396
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 1: the other wheels. Well, speaking of crisis, by the time

397
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,640
Speaker 1: the king comes to power in the late forties, when

398
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 1: he comes to power in forty one, but the time

399
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 1: he's really getting used to things, the Cold War starts

400
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 1: kicking off, and his neighbors are all dealing with you know, communism.

401
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,440
Speaker 1: You've got Vietnam with this, this communist revolt against the

402
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: French going on right now. And at first it seemed

403
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: like Cambodia was immune to communism. Um. So, in traditional

404
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: Marxist theory, the revolution begins within the laboring class, right,

405
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: you know, the factory workers who gets fed up with

406
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: serving the needs of capital. In the forties and fifties,

407
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 1: Cambodia had like a couple of thousand actual laborers in

408
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: the whole country. Most country subsistence farmers. Um. They didn't

409
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 1: really give a funk about capitalism or socialism. This is

410
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 1: because neither had anything to do with their lives. They

411
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: worked at most about six months a year to cover

412
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,199
Speaker 1: their basic needs. Uh. And they were all Theravata Buddhists,

413
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: and Theravata Buddhism places no value on acquiring wealth, and

414
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: therefore number one there was no cultural need to acquire wealth,

415
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 1: and there just wasn't a lot to buy. Um. King

416
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: Sano like to tell a story about an American AID

417
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 1: expert who visited Cambodia in the fifties and convinced some

418
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: villagers to start using modern fertile liser. They doubled their

419
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: harvest yields in a year, and the aid worker came

420
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 1: back the next year and was surprised to see that

421
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: each farmer had only grown half as many crops this

422
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: the next year. Um. He didn't understand why they wouldn't

423
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: want to produce twice as much, but clearly the Cambodians

424
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: were like, no, we can farm half as much and

425
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: make the same amount of food and work even less. Um.

426
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: So basically they're the smartest people in this Yeah, I

427
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 1: really got it right. They're really nailing it in like

428
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: the late forties. Can I ask get dumb historical question

429
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: from a little bit further back? I feel like I

430
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 1: should know in terms of like the silk Road and

431
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: the spice trade. Cambodia has always been in a significant

432
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: position for colonizers. But what is there a product that

433
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 1: everybody was hungry for from the outside, Like why did

434
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: my people, the Scots get on a boat to go there.

435
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 1: I come from thieves and plunders, so I always went

436
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,199
Speaker 1: to Cambodi. I mean in a uh, I'll take a

437
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: step in the broader sense of why people leave the

438
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 1: tiny rock that they were on to go get something

439
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: better from outside pepper or a spice or a mineral.

440
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: Why were people coming from places in the west to Cambodia.

441
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: What were they plundering? What were they taking? I mean,

442
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: so it's one of those things, Cambodia, Yeah, exactly. So

443
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 1: Cambodia's history is heavily based on sort of conflicts between Vietnam,

444
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: Like Vietnam is their traditional enemy because Vietnam is like

445
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: the big regional power, and so there's been a lot

446
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: of like more or less constant sort of power struggles

447
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: between China and Vietnam and Cambodia kind of winds up

448
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: in the middle, and of course during World War Two

449
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: they wound up in the middle between everybody in the Japanese.

450
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: But like there never nobody more about position on the

451
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: map than resources with exactly because they it's they're they're

452
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 1: not like they're not like a major industrial power. Obviously,

453
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: there's not like giant gold mines or anything like. It's

454
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: it's a country of like small farmers who just want

455
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: to make enough food to keep their families alive. I

456
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: just know that by the forties a bunch of economies

457
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: were kind of closing up to do that. Most of

458
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: their people would have been subsistence farmers, So it made

459
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: sense for the economy to stay more closed than to

460
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: invite in trade since there would always be such an

461
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: imbalance that uh, And it's there's an interesting period of

462
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: history when countries were more isolated, and fascinating things happen

463
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: in their history within that bubble because Cambodians weren't out

464
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: buying risk crackers. They were you know, everything that happened

465
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: is internally. Their history is inside the bubble, along with

466
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: their economy. So it's just kind of interesting to pick

467
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 1: out and figure out what people were busy doing. And

468
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: it's things like growing less crops because you didn't need

469
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: to grow any needed, which is fucking great. But one

470
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: of the things they also have going on is ankor

471
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: watt Is in Cambodia, which is this crazy gigantic, beautiful

472
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: like complex of of of massive buildings that was built

473
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: during the Khmer empire which had fallen hundreds of years

474
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: before this point. But so that's King CX looking at

475
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: that and saying, like, our people used to be great

476
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: and build great, gigantic things, and I have to figure

477
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: out some way to make us into a significant The

478
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: answer is always slaves. Slaves are always the answer to

479
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: why people made big cool stuff. Always slaves. These are

480
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: always the ter of an answer. You just spoiled a

481
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: lot of the story. Be a spoiler. Evil King wants

482
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: to build something pick there's no gap hit there that

483
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: is a straight line. So we're going to get back

484
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: to what exactly this not yet evil but definitely evil

485
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: King is going to do later. So we're going to

486
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: continue talking about this evil or not yet evil King

487
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: in a minute. But right now, we have to advertise

488
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: some products. Because the capitalist gods, yeah yeah, none of

489
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: us are Cambodian people. We we will all work much

490
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: harder in order to purchase things which we can fill

491
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: our homes with. So grab grab a box of money

492
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: and a bag of money in a suitcase of money,

493
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: and some dumb dums, buy some dumb dumbs. This show's

494
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: official sponsor is not dumb dumbs, but we're advertising them anyway,

495
00:23:54,440 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: and now some other things. So yeah, we're back and

496
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: we're talking about Cambodia and its culture at the time

497
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: when King Nordam sahannock Is uh is sort of coming

498
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: into power of the late forties the early fifties, um,

499
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: and he's frustrated because he wants to modernize his country. Uh.

500
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: He wants to make it, you know great again. Uh.

501
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: And the people just kind of want a farm and

502
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: not get involved in any of the conflicts raging around them.

503
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: So there's there's sort of this little like it's not

504
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: really a huge conflict yet, but you can you can

505
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: see some groundwork late where the king, you know, wants

506
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: to open things up more to the world, and the

507
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: people are just sort of like, but you know, we've

508
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: got rice, Like I feel fine. Uh. So Yeah, there

509
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: was a communist movement a foot in Cambodia in the

510
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: late forties and early fifties, but it was dominated by

511
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: the Vietnam and by the Vietnamin who um you might

512
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: guess from the name, we're Vietnamese and not Cambodian. Um. Yeah,

513
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: this made them not super popular among the Cambodians because

514
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: again there's this his tree of Vietnam being sort of

515
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: this domineering power over Cambodia. So so far it doesn't

516
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: look like the Communists are gonna gain a big foothold

517
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: in in Cambodia. UM. The problem is that the country

518
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: occupies really sweet position from the point of view of

519
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: someone trying to smuggle weapons into Vietnam in order to

520
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: fight the French. So it's important to Vietnam to have

521
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: backing in Cambodia. UM. They weren't really successful in spreading communism,

522
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: but they had some success working with an anti colonial

523
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: rebel movement called the Khmer iss Iraq. And the iss

524
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: Iraq aren't really communists. They they're more democrats. They want

525
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: uh Cambodia to like vote for leaders, and they don't

526
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: want the French to be in their fucking country anymore.

527
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: And they're not super communist, but they're willing to take

528
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: guns from the communists in order to try to kick

529
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: out the French. So from a fighting standpoint, the Isserac

530
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: look a lot like our conception of the Viet Cong.

531
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: Their jungle warriors who carry out hit and run attacks

532
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: against the military and wageing endless guerrilla war. I'm not

533
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: going to try to bog you down in details of

534
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: Cambodian politics at this time. Although they are fascinating, what's

535
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: important for the story is that the Khmer Isserak or

536
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: the I was trying to uproot the French, and thus

537
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: King Sihanook, you know, they call him a traitor and

538
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: a collaborationist for sort of working with the French. Um era.

539
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: How far have we moved in history. We're in the

540
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: early fifties two, and this is the point at time

541
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: at which the conflict between the Iseracs and the French

542
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: starts to really get bloody. There's a quote in the

543
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 1: book pole Pot that I mentioned earlier from a Shang

544
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: Song who was a Cambodian senator today, who remembered how

545
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: in his village in the Takao Province, the Isseracs would

546
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: decapitate victims and stuff their stomachs with grass. When we,

547
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: as children were fishing in the ponds, he remembered, we

548
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: would find severed heads in the water. It didn't bother us.

549
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: We were used to it. We'd yanked them out by

550
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: the hair and throw them aside. That was around nineteen

551
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: forty nine, Arby's deal with it. Yeah, so things are

552
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: getting Cambodia in the late forties to early fifties is

553
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: transitioning from like this mostly peaceful place to being sort

554
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: of increasingly racked with civil conflict. The Isserraq are pretty

555
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: brutal guys. Many of their leaders wore what we're known

556
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: as kunk or smoke children, which are amulets made from

557
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: mummified fetuses that were said to stop bullets. The colonial

558
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: soldiers were no better. One former government soldier, these are

559
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: like local Cambodian soldiers recruited from the cities, but fighting

560
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: under French command. When former government soldier described his units

561
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: work as quote, we would move into villages, kill the

562
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: men and women who had not already fled, and then

563
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: engage in individual tests of strength, which consisted of grasping

564
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: infants by the legs and then pulling them apart. So

565
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: things are getting bad in Cambodia in the early fifties,

566
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: and the king sees the writing on the wall, which

567
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: is that this rebel movement. Like he's a smart guy.

568
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: He's already guessed from the start of the fighting between

569
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: the French and the Vietnamese that the Vietnamese are going

570
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: to kick the French out. And he knows that the

571
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: Vietnamese are also going to continue funding the rebels in

572
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: Cambodia to kick the French out, which means that he's

573
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: going to get overthrown and probably ripped apart by a

574
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: mob if he doesn't figure out some cunning way to

575
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: get his country free of France without letting the rebels win. Um.

576
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: So that is a deli of a pickle. That is

577
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: a deli of a pickle, That is a how would

578
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: you solve that problem? Well, slaves, I'm just kidding, um,

579
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: just always dropping back to slaves. Well at nationalism is

580
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: a is a pretty easy trick at that stage or

581
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: something like it, where uh, you know, you've got you

582
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: have the former loyalty of those who are worshiping you,

583
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: and you've got the up and coming, gleaming cities that

584
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: are looking to build and grow. Um, you know, close

585
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: the ranks and make it about being Cambodian, not French

586
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: or Vietnamese. You know what, you would have made pretty

587
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: good dictator. You would have made a great king of

588
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: Cambodia in the nineteen fifties. You would have nailed being

589
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: king of Cambodia in the nineteen fifties. I don't know

590
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: that is a pretty delicate dance. That's some tough marketing.

591
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: You neat the right people. This is a delicate dance.

592
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: And so spoiler King Norada sahannak As I think people

593
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: spoiler alert history. It's just like, hey, you didn't read

594
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: this spoiler alert for a thing that millions of people know. Uh,

595
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: he's definitely a bastard, like he belongs on this show,

596
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: but he's kind of it's one of those like he

597
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: is a dancer. This whole story is him dancing around,

598
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: and there's there's an era of like up until like

599
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: well right now, up until the fifties. He's like from

600
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: the nineteen hundred to nineteen fifty, they're a whole bunch

601
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: of royal courts just like whipping and dodging, like just dad, like,

602
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: oh god, we don't know what. Boy. It's like a

603
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: stupid gift of kids on a like you know, in

604
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: a playground, a little whirly gig thing where everybody's spinning

605
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: too hard and everybody's trying to hold one. They all

606
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: fly off. Fat kid goes last, but you know he's

607
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: gonna go. You know he's gonna go. But this fat

608
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: Kid's gonna hang on. They hang on tight, and some

609
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: are still clinging. But uh, it's it's just a period.

610
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: No time in monarchical history is boring. They're weird. Monarchies

611
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: are very weird. But there's that period in history seems

612
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: to be so volatile where they just couldn't keep up

613
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: with the pace of social change everywhere, either backwards or forwards.

614
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: And I'm sure he's dancing along with the rest. He's dancing.

615
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: So you remember, when he comes to power, one of

616
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 1: the first things he does is he lets the men

617
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: a vote and he establishes a parliament that has, you know,

618
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: some power. So he's basically's sharing power with the parliament,

619
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: and he has a lot of power. Like he's not

620
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: like the King of England is now where there's no

621
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 1: or I guess they have at you know, he's not

622
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: he's not just a figurehead. But there's a parliament. They

623
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: have power, and they're right now dominated by the Democratic

624
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: Party Um, which was kind of like the Democratic Party here,

625
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: kind of a general liberali ish party who included just

626
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: sort of a melange of left wing and centrist people

627
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: and they're big things. They want to be an actual democracy,

628
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: so they're they're kind of ideologically more or less in

629
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: line with the iss Iraq, but they don't want to

630
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: do it violently. They want to they want to peacefully

631
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: sort of proceed to being to colonize and whatnot. So

632
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: the acts meanwhile, they're a little bit further to a left.

633
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: Some of them are out right communists. Their most popular

634
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: leader is a guy named son nock Than whose goal

635
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: was to get Democrats to back him and pushing the

636
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: French authorities out of Cambodia. So he's trying to get

637
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: his rebel movement to ally with the people in power

638
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: and sort of force a coup against the government. Um.

639
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: And he's one of the guys attacking the king for

640
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: being a puppet of the French. So this all comes

641
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: to a head in June of nineteen fifty two when

642
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: the king, aged thirty, decides it's time for him to

643
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: jump into politics for the first time. Um, because he'd

644
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: sort of tried to be above factional politics. You know,

645
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: if you've got the Cambodian right wing and you've got

646
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: the Democrats, and he doesn't really weigh in. So he

647
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: finally decides to weigh in, and he gave a speech

648
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: attacking the Democrats and whining that people had dared to

649
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: say that collaborating with the French wasn't cool. This prompts

650
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: an uprising of right wing Cambodians in the city who

651
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: take to the streets and advocate for the destruction of

652
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: the current Democrat dominated party in power. Calls up French

653
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: troops Moroccans. Actually, in the middle of the night on

654
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: June ninth, he dissolves the government, assumes emergency powers, and

655
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: declares himself Prime Minister. So there you go, I forgot

656
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: him out. Emergency powers. Don't manipulate your public. You get

657
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: inside every now and then you create an emergency that

658
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: you didn't have to, you then have to assume emergency powers.

659
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: And it was just a coincidence. Yeah, yeah. So he

660
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: announces that he's launching a royal crusade to gain Cambodian

661
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: independence within three years. He bans all political meetings in Nompen,

662
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: and he has French soldiers and armored vehicles filled the

663
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: streets to make sure nobody talks about politics other than

664
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: the politics that he wants to. Honestly, that sounds refreshing,

665
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, No more just armed men stopping you from

666
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: talking about the government. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Yeah. So

667
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: the French, in spite of the fact that he says

668
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: Cambodia needs to be independent from France, the French are

669
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: more or less on his side because their basic idea

670
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: is that democracy and Cambodia was a mistake. Cambodians aren't

671
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: ready to be voting because they're going to vote to

672
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: kick the French out, and only a king can keep

673
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: things peaceful. The Republicans in the capital, and by that

674
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean people who want a republic, not the Conservatives,

675
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: because the Conservatives are all about this. The Republicans in

676
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: the capital aren't happy. SCENX crackdown inspires protests UH in nineteen.

677
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: In November of nineteen fifty two, there's a big strike

678
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: by students in Nonpen in several towns. King tells them

679
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: all to get back to class, but instead a bunch

680
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: of them hold up in the National Assembly, which is

681
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: the parliament building. Monks came out to protest and argue

682
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: that the king was in fact a dick. Uh. In

683
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: January of fifty three, there are some grenade attacks on

684
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: schools and Nonpen. Philip Short, author of Anatomy of a Nightmare,

685
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: says that these attacks were either from the rebels to

686
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: provoke the king into brutal reprisals, or just ordered by

687
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: the king so that he could justify a crackdown, And

688
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: it seems like it's probably the second one. So he

689
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: has some people start throwing grenades into political gatherings so

690
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: that he can basically crack down on everybody. So he

691
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: gives a speech and says, from now on, any individual

692
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: or political party that opposes my policies will be declared

693
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,719
Speaker 1: a traitor to the nation and punished accordingly. The king

694
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: is supported in this by his mom, who had once

695
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: called him tubby. She hated democracy. He thought the idea

696
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: of people voting was a deliberate insult to her personally.

697
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: That is hilarious. Oh my god, what that is some serious,

698
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: malignant narciss is um. Yeah, that is mental illness combined

699
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: with power. That is so funny. The personal insult that

700
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: people would want to vote, Yeah that like, that's like

701
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: that they might want to decide the path of their

702
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: country in life is like them shifting on you. There's

703
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: also just so many crooked democracies, like yeah, sure of

704
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: the populace voted for this one person like, just assume

705
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: that you could set that. I love it. I love it.

706
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: It's great. Uh My Tubby Son is letting people vote,

707
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: get there, letting know you don't get to do cute.

708
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,479
Speaker 1: So the French are still on board at this point.

709
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: They want a strong man in cambody who can keep

710
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: a lid on the Communists, so they support King Shinok

711
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: whill he arrests nine members of the Democratic Party and

712
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: imprisons them without trial for plotting it for colonial power,

713
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: the more brutal your dictator, the better. You don't really,

714
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: that's always what happens on the ground. If there's only

715
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: one thing happening. Yeah, I can't think of a single

716
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: time where a colonial power backed a dictator and didn't

717
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: have things work out great. Well, it works for the

718
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: colonial power. I'm not saying it works in the sets.

719
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: That's like, yeah, a knife works for a murderer. Murder

720
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: is not cool, and that's not what I'm saying. It

721
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: worked for us. You are France, it makes sense to

722
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: prop up a brutal dictator because that prevents anything from changing. Period.

723
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: You don't care a brutal it is. You just don't

724
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: want to change, and that right there is why all

725
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: of the colonial powers are still in charge of their colonies. Well,

726
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: I didn't say it works in the long term. There

727
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: is no long term success. There's no long con why

728
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. No, Yeah, so you're right the French,

729
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: you're doing exactly what you'd expect the French to do.

730
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: A Nook disbands student organizations that had any kind of

731
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: political bent. He also intacts the heads of the two

732
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: Buddhist monastic orders who had protested against him for sympathizing

733
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: with the rebels. He says, quote, for the first time

734
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: in my life, I have to grab the monks by

735
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: the throat, me the most religious man in the kingdom,

736
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: because I've had enough, more than enough. My subjects, in

737
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: the elite among my subjects, must obey so etly. Thereafter,

738
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: right after this, with his kingdom in a state of

739
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: unrest and outright civil war in some sections, flies to

740
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: France to drop some pounds. So when you read about

741
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: this guy in any of the history books, it will

742
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: regularly talk about him leaving for France to his house

743
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: and the Riviera to take what's called a rest cure

744
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 1: or a dietary cure, which I thought it was because

745
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: you hear like terms like that a lot old with

746
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: old timey leaders were they're taking a rescue would is

747
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: just like taking a vacation, but they don't want to

748
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: say they're taking a vacation, so it's like a cure.

749
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: For him. It was a weight loss clinic. So he

750
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: would go to France regularly throughout his reign when he

751
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: got too fat, to go to a French weight loss

752
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: clinic and drop pounds. So that's basically what he's doing.

753
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: Like he he cracks down on all political descent, he

754
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: arrests a bunch of people, uh, and then he goes

755
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: to fact. Yeah, so he's a great He's a great,

756
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: great guy. This would be a pattern, yeah, for the

757
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: king for his entire life. So after fat Camp, the

758
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: King flies over to Paris and he meets with the

759
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: French President and gives him a list of demands. He

760
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: wants full control of the Combodian millet terry, he wants

761
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: French people in Cambodia to be subject to Cambodian law,

762
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: and he wants to guarantee of eventual independence for his country,

763
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: all which those are reasonable things for the head of

764
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: state of a country to ask of another country. Who

765
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,919
Speaker 1: just took them over two get cheap rice. I guess, um, yeah,

766
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: well again it's for a strategic cult, like a position. Yeah, yeah,

767
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: they wanted to. Yeah, they had so much more than rice.

768
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: They're really good at Yeah. But you know, part of

769
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: the reason that they're satisfied is because what they have

770
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: is really good. Yeah. Yeah, the people they are satisfied.

771
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: The French are not satisfied because, um, colonialism isn't working

772
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: out for them because one of those things you'd think,

773
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: like after they stopped being in constant conflict with with

774
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: Britain and like Germany got sort of cut down to

775
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: size by the Second World War, and they'd stop, like

776
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: what do we have all these colonies? Like what's what

777
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: is what about this? Like everyone else has stopped playing

778
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: the game. The game's that going on. It's a different

779
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: world now. That process all started after World War One,

780
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: when at the end of World War One they rewrote

781
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: the lines to figure out how to share stuff because

782
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: it's spent centuries taking it over. And what they learned

783
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: is you don't get to let it go. You can't

784
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: like it's all over your hands. It's not. You're grabbing

785
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: a gel, not a solid. You don't need to pull

786
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: it away. So they were stuck with it, and they

787
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: propped up all these dictators that we're talking about now

788
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: and sham governments, and it's just a plan that there

789
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: was no option other than for it to fail. Yeah,

790
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: no way to end the history that started evil, not evil.

791
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: So you're watching the gasps of colonialism, you know, fade away.

792
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: But why were they doing this? They already answered that question.

793
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: They shouldn't, you know, they were trying to not do it.

794
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 1: There's just no way to undo it. Once you start

795
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: sucking the whole world, once you conquered the whole world

796
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: for a hundred and fifty years. Yeah, yeah, well yeah, France, France,

797
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: I think, had been in control of this part of

798
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: the world since the eighteen sixties. Um. So yeah, they've

799
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: they've been here a little while, um, which is why

800
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: all of their government documents at this time are in

801
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: like French and stuff. But to his credit, King Ciano

802
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: at no point thinks that colonialism is anything but fucked. Um.

803
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: Like when the French you're fighting against the Vietnamese, he's like,

804
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: you guys are gonna get your butts kicked. And when

805
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: the Americans get involved, he's like this is not gonna

806
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: work for anybody, Like he knows that from the get go,

807
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: so credit where it's due. He is smarter than all

808
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: of the Europeans in this story, which maybe isn't the

809
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: highest bar in the world. They're not sending their best

810
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: people to uh to run their countries anymore. Um So, Yeah.

811
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: He goes to the French president and he's like, uh,

812
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: I want, you know, my country's independence and full control

813
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: of the military. YadA, YadA, YadA. The French presidents like

814
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: L O L no so seen it flies to the

815
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: US to see if we would back him in his

816
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: quest for independence. Uh. He meets with the Secretary of

817
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: State Alan Dulles, who was like, if the French army leaves,

818
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: you're gonna all be taken over by communists and we

819
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: can't have that, so just be cool with the French

820
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: being there. The President refused to meet with him, but

821
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: White House officials coordinating his trip did offer to take

822
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: the king to the circus, which he took as an insult,

823
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: which wouldn't you mean honestly, the President can't hang with you,

824
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: and we're not inviting you to dinner, which we always

825
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: do with heads of state. But there's a circus. Have

826
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: you ever seen elephants? I guess you have these elephants

827
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: from Yeah, look at these elephants we took from you

828
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: and some Carnis elephants just telegraphing, take me home. It

829
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 1: would be great if he stole carneys and brought carneys

830
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: back to Cambodia. Just that's the the cultural exchange he

831
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: wants to make. We steal the elephants, they steal Carnis.

832
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: That is not an even trade. That's a solid screenplay. Okay,

833
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: uh so yeah, um this made seeing look angry. The

834
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: French and the Americans both ignoring him. He gives an

835
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: explosive interview to The New York Times where he threatens

836
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 1: America that Cambodia will go communist if it's not given

837
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: its independence. Done done. He repeated the basic idea a

838
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: few months later in a memorandum he's sent to both

839
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: the Americans in the British. I'm asking the USA in

840
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: Great Britain if just for once, they will kindly consider

841
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: the problem with Cambodia from the viewpoint pint of the

842
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: Commers instead of that of the French. My people will

843
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: tell you, we don't know what communist slavery means, but

844
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: the slavery imposed by the French we know well for

845
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: we are now living under it. So one of the

846
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: weird things about this guy's when you read the things

847
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: that he says to his people, he comes across as

848
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: a total dick. And when you read everything he's saying

849
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: to the colonial powers in the US, he's like totally reasonable, Like,

850
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: you guys are ignoring what everybody here wants and just

851
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: trying to do your own thing and it's gonna be

852
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: a fucking disaster. He's like, yeah, right, But then when

853
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: you talk to his own people, it's like descent will

854
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: be crushed. Um So, in June of nineteen fifty three,

855
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: Sienna Sianna makes his play for Cambodian independence and absolute power.

856
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: He secretly goes to Bangkok and he announces that he

857
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: won't return to the capital or talk to French officials

858
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: again until they agree to set his country free. If

859
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: we cannot obtain what we want peacefully. The entire camera

860
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: people are resolved to obtain their freedom by other means

861
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: and are ready to sacrifice their lives. So a few

862
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: days later, uh this prompts the two largest Buddhist orders

863
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: in Cambodia to call for a holy war against the French.

864
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: The next day, Siana calls for Camare units in the

865
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: French army to dessert. At the end of the month,

866
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: he called for all citizens between twenty and thirty five

867
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: years of age to join the fight for independence. So

868
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: the French military and Cambodia basically dissolves overnight because the

869
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: king told them to leave, and he's like the fucking

870
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: semi divine figure. So the French realized that, like they

871
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: just they can't hold the country without this guy who

872
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: they've basically been treating as a big toddler the entire time.

873
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: So by October they've had enough and they agree to

874
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: relinquish all military control of Cambodia to the king. It

875
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: will take another year for France to totally pull out

876
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: of their former colony, but King Sienok had done it.

877
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: In November of nineteen fifty three, the French handed over

878
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: total control and a dumb and self aggrandizing ceremony where

879
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: they like basically they phrase they frame it as like

880
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: a graduation ceremony, like you people are finally ready to

881
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: control your country that you ran for thousands of years

882
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: before we came in here. Uh but yeah, all's well,

883
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: Cambodia is independent, the yoke of colonialism has been cast off,

884
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: and the communists are not in charge. So it seems

885
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: like things are going great for sanok now, and probably

886
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: nothing terrible will happen in this story. But that's the

887
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: end of the podcast. This was really fun. I'm not

888
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: sure why it was such a bastard that crushing descent

889
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: was kind of rude anyway, thanks? Yeah, all right, but no, actually,

890
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: that's that is a lie. Oh it didn't go good.

891
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: It didn't go good after that. Well, we'll get into

892
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: that after we sell some products and doors. Do you

893
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 1: like products? Indoor services? Both products and services? And you

894
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 1: know what else I love exchanging money for them? Yeah.

895
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: You know what I love is producing value for shareholders,

896
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: which is then handed to me in a fraction that

897
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: I can I can spend on my own products and

898
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: services which create value for other shareholders. What do you know?

899
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: So let's all do that right now and we're back.

900
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: We are talking about King Nora, Dame Sianna, who has

901
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: just succeeded in wangling freedom for his country from the

902
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: French colonial oppressor pig dogs. Uh so, it seems like

903
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: all great, except for everything isn't great. Uh. Scenx triumph

904
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: led to an immediate and bloody escalation of the fighting

905
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: in Cambodia. The rebels, under that fan guy we talked

906
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: about earlier, argued that the Prince was basically slave of

907
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: the French. They claimed that his friendly relations with them

908
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: were proofd that he was just a figurehead and he

909
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: was going to send Cambodians over to die in Vietnam.

910
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: Uh So, Yeah, the fighting continued, and it turned out

911
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: that sn wasn't actually all that good at war. By

912
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: the middle of nineteen fifty four, he'd lost about his

913
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: territory to the rebels. The fighting was bloody enough that

914
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 1: nobody wanted to really keep killing, and in May, rebel

915
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: representatives and the king traveled to Switzerland to talk it

916
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: out with a bunch of other countries, including Vietnam, the US,

917
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: and for some reason, Canada. There's other countries there to

918
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: Canada was just the one that we wise, what is

919
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: Canada really good at apology? Yeah, so this is right

920
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: around the time you know, you had you had North Vietnam,

921
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: and North Korea had already been established at that point,

922
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: and so the Khmer rebels in the north are like,

923
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: we want our own separate country. We don't want to

924
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: be ruled by the king. We want our own like

925
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 1: legit democracy and stuff where we can, you know, choose

926
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: our own path without this king doing whatever the hell

927
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: he wants. And yeah, so that's their hope going into this.

928
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: Going into the session, the rebels begged the Soviet Union

929
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: and China to stick up for them um, but the

930
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: US did not want what they assumed would just become

931
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: a separate communist Cambodia above regular Cambodia, and the Soviet

932
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: Union in China weren't willing to fight for the Cambodian

933
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: So everybody works out in agreement where the rebels will

934
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: lay down their arms and elections will be held in nineteen.

935
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: It sounds like Sanok wins this one, but everybody knew

936
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: that once the elections were held, the Democrats, which were

937
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: heavily backed by the rebels, would win, and their most

938
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: popular candidate would be than the guy who had been

939
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: leading the rebels. So this would have left Sinook is

940
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: the constitutional monarch of a government that hated him and

941
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,399
Speaker 1: was definitely going to do whatever it could to turn

942
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: him into just a figurehead. So the US is happy

943
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: with this because it means that, unlike everywhere else in

944
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia, a country was about to happily vote for

945
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: a democratic government they actually liked than he was pro US.

946
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: So they're like, this is a great thing for us.

947
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: You know, we've we've established a democracy in Southeast Asia.

948
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: Let's wash our hands and walk away. But Sanok is

949
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: not happy letting people choose who they wanted to lead

950
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: them basically ran against all of his deeply held convictions,

951
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: most of which were that he should be the guy

952
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: in charge of Cambodia. So in February of nineteen fifty five,

953
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: after this agreement has made and the rebels laid down

954
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: their arms, the king calls a referendum on his royal crusade,

955
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: you know, the thing that freed Cambodia from the French,

956
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: And he's basically asking the whole kingdom to vote, do

957
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: you like me? Yes or no. Voters were told, quote,

958
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: if you love the king, choose a white ballot. If

959
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: you don't love the king, a black ballot. Of those

960
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: voting percent shows white ballots saying they loved the king.

961
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: But the turnout was really low, not a lot of

962
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: people of he and his mom. Yeah, of him, and

963
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: his mom calls him. Yeah. Uh So a few days later, um,

964
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, he's kind of fuming over the low turnout,

965
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: and he's fuming over the fact that all the polls

966
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: are saying the Democrat and this guy he doesn't like

967
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: then are going to win the election. And he winds

968
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: up renting a house next to a big gathering for

969
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and like listening into one of their

970
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: speeches and it ends and there's this huge eruption of applause,

971
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: and according to people who are there with him at

972
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,439
Speaker 1: the time, he starts weeping with rage when he hears

973
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: how popular the Democrats are. So he's desperate and his fragile,

974
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: fragile ego that's some more schoolyard ship. Yeah, hearing people

975
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: cheering for like someone else on it's like it's not

976
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: enough to be a beloved king. Like the fact that

977
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: anybody else's liked is just burning him alive. Uh So, Yeah,

978
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: he's desperate and his fragile ego can't take being sidelined

979
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: by some popularly elected politicians. So in March, the king

980
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: makes a surprise broadcast. Surprise. Yeah, oh, not like a

981
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: fun one, though it's not like a birthday party. You

982
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 1: tell me, I'm gonna read the broadcast. My enemies work

983
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 1: against me ceaselessly, and I should note that anytime there's

984
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: a me in here, it's spelled with the M capitalized. Oh, Royals.

985
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: Nothing like that will ever happen again, and certainly not

986
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 1: in our own country. I will say this could almost

987
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: be a tweet from our current president. Close your eyes

988
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: and listen, and just pretend. Certain of our students who

989
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 1: love injustice are determined to serve the democrats and son

990
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: knock than the educated, the highly placed, and the rich

991
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: spend their time throwing up obstacles to my work for

992
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: the sake of their own interest and ambitions. All of

993
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 1: this has completely discouraged me and prevents me continuing to reign.

994
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: If I remain on the throne, I will be unable

995
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: to work in your interests, my poor and humble subjects.

996
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: Freed from my golden cage in the Royal Palace, I

997
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: offer my life and my strength to my people, for

998
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: though I leave the throne, I shall not shirk my

999
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: duty to serve. So the King abdicated, he throws down

1000
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: his office, fire me. I quit. Yeah, well the king abdicates,

1001
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: he has his dad become the new king after him,

1002
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: because you know, yes, I guess usually how they do that.

1003
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: So now he's a prince and a private citizen and

1004
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: he's free to run for election against the Democrats. So

1005
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: he creates his own political party. He calls it the

1006
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: People's Community, so it would sound like a socialist party,

1007
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't. All the conservative Cambodians instantly dropped

1008
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: their parties and they flocked to the Prince's banner, along

1009
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: with more than a few of the Democrats, because hey,

1010
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: the prince is popular. The Prince's party Senko makes a

1011
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: formidable rival to the Democrats. But the King had misjudged

1012
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 1: a little. His party had no policies and no plans.

1013
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: It's only stated goal was blind support of Prince Shannack.

1014
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: So uh, I love that you go, like as a

1015
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: leader of the party, you go from like being actually

1016
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: king and then when you're running for office to be

1017
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 1: essentially a king or like, you know, a an executive leader.

1018
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: You get to the you get you get up to

1019
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: make a speech and you're like, I don't know my plan.

1020
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: Don't you just call me king or print doesn't it

1021
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: just become prep I still just go to fat camp,

1022
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: right I want to be president. Plan is to go

1023
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 1: back to fat camp, just like it was. It's eerie,

1024
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,439
Speaker 1: how well you've predicted this. So cab only stress eating

1025
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: a lot right now, I'm just saying, oh god, he

1026
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: must be just baguettes all day long, man pouring crying.

1027
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: How could you not if you? If I was literally,

1028
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: if I was like a Cambodian king, I would be

1029
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: like a feudal lord, just walking from like street food

1030
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: cart to street food cart, like I have come for

1031
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: my offering chicken and rice and tea. Immediately I will

1032
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: have the duck as well. So this is a mark

1033
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 1: of the kind of man he is, because he could

1034
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: have legitimately lived that life where he just is rich

1035
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: and beloved and gets fed forever, and he could just

1036
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: walk around letting people give him things that could be

1037
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: his whole life. But instead he wants to be in charge,

1038
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: which only crazy people want. Only crazy people actually want. Yes,

1039
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: So the King's party has no policies and no plans. Uh.

1040
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: And even with the King's popularity, the Democrats are still

1041
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: slated to win a lot of the seats, and so

1042
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: he's not going to be an absolute power, you know,

1043
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: he's going to have to do a coalition government and

1044
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: be a democracy. The King wants no part in that,

1045
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: so five weeks before the vote, he uses his control

1046
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: of the police and military to launch a massive intimidation

1047
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: campaign against the Cambodian left wing. He has the authors

1048
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: of communist and lefty journals and newspapers imprisoned. Several far

1049
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: left candidates are outright and murdered. King Sianoch uses the

1050
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: unrest from his repective tactics to justify a heavy police

1051
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: presence at the voting stations, so he starts arresting people.

1052
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: That leads to protests, which he then uses his evidence

1053
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: that he needs to fill the polling locations with police

1054
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: and soldiers. Uh left wing voters who were brave enough

1055
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: to go vote were handed colored voting slips, each color

1056
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: representing a party and they didn't have to put the

1057
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: slip into an urn while officials, police and soldiers watched them.

1058
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 1: So voter turnout was not great among the Cambodian left wing,

1059
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: but the King still did not do very well, so

1060
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 1: he had his minions just lie about the vote count

1061
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: in constituencies where his party's candidate finished second. They just

1062
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: outright destroy all the voting slips and murder the winner. Um.

1063
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: Very simple, very simple. So there's a lot of like

1064
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: when he King spoiler alert died in two thousand twelve,

1065
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: I think, and when you read the obituaries about him, uh,

1066
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: they're mostly positive in like Western newspapers, and they'll all

1067
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 1: talk about like none of them are even consistent about

1068
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 1: how much he won by. They'll all say between eighty

1069
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: four and of the vote, which just like but nobody.

1070
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: It's frustrating because like the Telegraph or someone will be

1071
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: like reporting on this and say, like, and he won

1072
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: election with vote, No, he didn't murdered people. The newspapers

1073
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: and like the well, the journalism in Colognia, like Colonizer's nations,

1074
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: have a really hard time actually reporting on why, Like

1075
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 1: the who, what, when, and where is not that hard,

1076
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: but why these things are happening kind of eludes, like

1077
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: you know, even still, but I imagine especially the reporting

1078
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: at the time is a little clueless about the why.

1079
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: The weird thing is the reporting at the time. When

1080
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: he wins this election, the foreign journalists who are in

1081
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: Cambodia cry fowl at the obvious cheating, Like they're like,

1082
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: this is clearly fucked up. Here's all of the different

1083
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: net like things that went wrong that we're wrong, but

1084
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: the international community sticks their fingers in their ears. So

1085
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: the Americans and the French, you're just happy Cambodia didn't

1086
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: go communist, and they're kind of like, don't like, who

1087
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: gives a funk? Who gives a funk of this country

1088
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: that's not America has a prince dictator now. So the

1089
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: whole mess lead one Cambodian voter to conclude taking part

1090
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: in elections is just for propaganda. An election is a

1091
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: power struggle. The one who has power in his hands

1092
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: is the one who controls the outcome. When I guess

1093
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 1: who said that, Oh, come one, Yes, that's little it's

1094
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: got He's got a pot and poll as cute as

1095
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: I could make that. Yeah, so this is kind of

1096
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: his little worship. Shouldn't get a fun name. If you're

1097
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: a dictator, you shouldn't get you shouldn't get something fun

1098
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: to say. It should be clunky. It's hard. I am

1099
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: already ashamed. I keep calling the Prince the prince because

1100
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: I am intimidated about getting names wrong. And I apologize

1101
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: written down. I've written it down phonetically all over my

1102
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 1: note card. Uh, but I'm still gonna call him the Prince.

1103
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: And Paul Pott is just so it's shouldn't be fun

1104
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: to say, No, it shouldn't. And he has the cutest

1105
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: name of anyone. Yeah, in terms, I mean, the list

1106
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: is pretty short. Yeah, but chairman mal pretty cute because

1107
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 1: it makes me think of cats. Sure, yeah, but the

1108
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: chairman part real heavy. Yeah, the Chairman is not a

1109
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: cute name. Paul Pot branding is real sharp. Yeah, yeah, clean,

1110
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, and that's that. You've got to give credit

1111
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: to the Communist Their branding was on point at this

1112
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: period of time, in this period of time, but that slipped. Yeah,

1113
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: they paid less attention to the astatics time went on.

1114
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's very true. Uh so Yeah, Paul

1115
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: Pot at the time of this election is working for

1116
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: the camp for the Democratic Party. Um so he's he's

1117
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: working for the Democratic Party, but he's also an officer

1118
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: in a secret underground Cambodian Communist Party. Uh. Paul Pot

1119
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 1: and his fellow Imanists did want to change Cambodia's system

1120
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: of government, but prior to the election, they hadn't wanted

1121
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 1: a violent war and overthrow or anything. So Mausi Dung,

1122
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: who was basically like the most respected sort of communist

1123
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: philosopher in Asia, had laid out a theory of how

1124
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: to flip countries like Cambodia who were feudal or colonized

1125
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: nations that didn't have a big laboring class um. And

1126
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: it was like, how to flip them the communism without bloodshed? Um.

1127
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: So first you needed a democratic revolution where peasants and

1128
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: workers in the bourgeoisie all worked together to supplant the king,

1129
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: kick out the colonizers, and gain a democracy. And then

1130
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 1: Mao said, you'd have a normal democracy for decades, probably

1131
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: for a very long time, and it would be capitalist

1132
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: and that would be that would be fine, And basically

1133
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: the left would gain power gradually over time as people

1134
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: saw the flaws and capitalism, until everyone just agreed that

1135
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: communism was a swell idea and you had a peaceful

1136
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: transition to communism. Well that's what these guys were wanting

1137
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: to do. So Pol Pot, as a young man right

1138
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: up until this election happens, believes in the democratic process,

1139
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 1: thinks it's a necessary step on the way towards making

1140
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: a country the way he wants to be and doesn't

1141
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: want there to be any fighting in his country. Um,

1142
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: you know they would have been happy with the Democrats

1143
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: winning power and you know then just voting for a while.

1144
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: But when ak yeah, just before and I hear about

1145
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: the rest of this, I'm going to say that if

1146
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: you're a guy who kills a million and a half people,

1147
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: be you a prince or fighting against a princeton, a

1148
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: Democratic party, that's in you before you get that power,

1149
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: you don't care how you get it. You're a site.

1150
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: You're a sociopath, so you don't have any moral connection

1151
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: to what you're actually spewing. You just collect and want power,

1152
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: influence whatever it is. If you this guy would have

1153
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: you know again, if he was just a bad assistant manager,

1154
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: he would have killed everyone in his Army's like it's yeah,

1155
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: I feel like these seeds were already planted. I feel

1156
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: like and and the Prince are the same evil born

1157
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: in different soil. I feel like the seeds are there,

1158
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: but I don't feel like they're necessarily getting watered like

1159
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: you've got I think pol pot for one thing, he's

1160
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: a little different than like he's not like a guy

1161
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: like Hitler, So you get a guy like like, You've

1162
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: got kind of these two different theories of how to

1163
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,439
Speaker 1: look at history. There's trends and forces and then there's

1164
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: like the great man theory, and like it's probably a

1165
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: mix of the two. But you look at like in

1166
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: Germany after World War One, there was going to be

1167
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: another fight between France and Germany because of just how

1168
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: the whole thing fucking in. Somebody who was some strong

1169
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: man asshole was going to take charge of Germany. But

1170
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: because it's Hitler, you have the Holocaust and the invasion

1171
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: of like Russia and whatnot. And I think pol Pot

1172
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: is more like interesting, well were he kind of he

1173
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: like certain things like there was because of the ship

1174
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: the Prince is doing because he's clamping down an oppression,

1175
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: because he's he's giving the left no legitimate way to

1176
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: win power. There was going to be a left wing

1177
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: revolution in Cambodia, and it was worse than it would

1178
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: have been because pol Pot is the man he is.

1179
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: But I think the Prince made it inevitable that this

1180
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: was going to happen. I think him crushing all descent

1181
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: and me because like I got like maybe pulpod always

1182
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: would have been an asshole, but there's like like it

1183
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: it's it's I don't know. It's hard to say because

1184
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: like before this time, he's like driving around in a

1185
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: in a nice car and he's like dating like rich

1186
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: ladies and like wants to be like it doesn't seem

1187
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: to want to murder three million people at this point

1188
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: in his life. And I guess, you know, it's it's

1189
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: debatable as to what would happen. But I don't know.

1190
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're the person who can do

1191
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: that that is in you and no moral compass, no

1192
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: philosophy you spouses greater than whatever synaps fires that lets

1193
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: you kill a million people. But I I feel like

1194
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: that synapse is there. You're absolutely right, But I don't

1195
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: know that it necessarily leads to you, because there's got

1196
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: to be We've probably all worked with someone who, if

1197
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: they gained power, could kill a million and a half

1198
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: people or whatever. Yes, but instead they're a stand up

1199
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: comedian because that's is the way life goes. I just

1200
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: think of it. Jim Jones, who was like, you know

1201
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: his politics. If all you did was list out Jim

1202
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: Jones politics, you'd be like well, this sounds like a

1203
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: person I probably agree with on most things. And then

1204
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, called leader, who killed who just killed?

1205
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: Who killed everyone? Because it's the you're you know, it's

1206
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: interesting when the ship you agree with the shell of

1207
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: someone and then on the inside is this horrible evil thing.

1208
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: So I feel like even if Paul Pot was like, no,

1209
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm a good guy, don't believe in colonial per I

1210
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: want justice, it's you know, you're somewhere in you someone

1211
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: who's gonna kill. Yeah, that guy was always in here,

1212
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: But I do I take your point that because you know,

1213
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 1: the Prince said in motion something that you know you

1214
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: couldn't stop, and Paul Pot is who he is, So

1215
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: it was that well, and you're looking at Cambodia prior

1216
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: to this, it's not a country where most people are

1217
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: biting at the whip to like revolt against the system

1218
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: that exists. But that starts to change after the Prince,

1219
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, brutally suppresses the left wing and essentially makes

1220
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: himself President Prince Um, which is, you know, President Prince

1221
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: is like an alternate universe. I would love to live

1222
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: exactly both pictured exactly what chapless purple pants and like

1223
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: the white Mouse is like all technicolor because it's like white,

1224
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: but you put the colors the laser show and ships.

1225
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: You know what, no one would have died in the

1226
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: war for Afghanistan and it would be so much more

1227
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: like could dance so well man, Sorry, thank you, thank

1228
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: you for taking me there. Okay, yeah, yeah yeah. Can

1229
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: you imagine the things he would have done to the

1230
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: White House Bowling Alley? Oh my goodness. Yeah, it would

1231
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: have been a disco tech and it would have been

1232
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: fucking incredible. God that cabinet. Yeah okay, uh, well, now

1233
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: that we're all happy, good okay, Yeah, let's get back

1234
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: to talking about Cambodia. In the mid fifties, pol Pot

1235
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: decides that democracies bullshit and shortly thereafter takes to the

1236
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: jungle with all of his friends and comrades to do

1237
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: a jungle communist ship. Um so yeah. Sanic is largely

1238
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: backed by conservatives, but he himself is not a conservative

1239
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: or a fist. He is a himist. His only guiding

1240
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: moral principle is that he should be in charge of Cambodia,

1241
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: so he doesn't really give a shit about politics. He

1242
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: just wants to be the guy. Uh. He's a smart guy.

1243
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: He knows that Cambodia is going to eventually go full communist.

1244
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: He knows the number one power in the region, China,

1245
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: is already communist, and he knows the United States is

1246
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: going to eventually get fed up with sticking their dick

1247
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: in the whole area and leave Vietnam. So he figures

1248
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: that his main worry is the Vietnamese. Uh they have

1249
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: a history of bullying Cambodia and they're the main backers

1250
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: of the Cambodian communist movement. So see, Hannah comes up

1251
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: with a pretty clever plan. Who will let the Vietnamese

1252
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: use his country as a highway for their guns and

1253
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: money first to fight against the French and in the US.

1254
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: He'll even let tens of thousands of them hide in

1255
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: Cambodia when the fighting isn't going their way. But they

1256
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: have to stop giving guns to and training the local

1257
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: Cambodian communists. Obviously, this pisses off the United States. So

1258
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: SNX promised to them is that he'll brutally repress the

1259
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: communists in Cambodia. We go one hand, how you do it,

1260
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: that's how you brutally dictate exactly. So in foreign policy, terms,

1261
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 1: he's in low step with the USSR in China, but

1262
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: domestically he's doing like a triple McCarthy and like everything,

1263
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: like killing all the communists in his own country. So

1264
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: Nora Dam Sahannak is the only guy who was simultaneously

1265
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: on both sides of the Cold War for the entirety

1266
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: of the Cold War, dancing and dancing and dancing and

1267
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: dancing down. Yeah, yeah, so we are. Yeah. So, the

1268
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: Prince's father served as king when the prince first abdicated.

1269
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: When he died in nineteen sixty, the Snox mom, Queen Cosamac,

1270
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: wanted to be crowned, but you know, his mom had

1271
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: spent his whole life calling him fat. So the king

1272
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: flips the script on his mom uh and makes her

1273
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: guarding of the throne, which is a position with no power,

1274
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: and instead pushes through a constitutional amendment to make himself

1275
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: head of state for life. So now by nineteen sixty

1276
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: he is the president and the head of state for life.

1277
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: And that is where we are going to end the

1278
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: podcast for today, and we will be back on Thursday

1279
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: to talk about the rest of sanus wacky career, which

1280
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: is I mean, it's it's gonna get dark. I bet

1281
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna here about some infrastructure improvement. I bet we're

1282
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: gonna hear a lot about like Robert's rules and how

1283
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: it was implemented. Are you calling water filtration plants? Because

1284
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: I got nine pages of water filtration plants. I'm so

1285
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: looking forward to that beer rock, gros see beer rock.

1286
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: That's what's coming, right, A good chance, that's a good chance.

1287
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 1: It's definitely not like death destruction. And I mean, see

1288
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: you next time, not yet, see you next time. Because

1289
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: we have we you should plug some things before we

1290
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: we roll out for the day and a half between

1291
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: the next podcast. I am Caitlin Gill and I have

1292
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: a website. It is called Caitlin Gill Comedy dot com

1293
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: and you can go there and then you can see

1294
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: my schedule. It's the tab you click it and then

1295
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: there'll be a little calendar. You get tickets to any

1296
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: of my life shows. Also, July eleventh, some Monsters comes

1297
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: out on True TV. Watch it. I'm Robert Evans. I

1298
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: don't have any live shows, but I have a book.

1299
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: You can buy it on Amazon. It's called A Brief

1300
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: History of Vice. You can find me on Twitter at

1301
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: I write Okay, two letters and uh. This show Behind

1302
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: the Bastards is also on the internet www dot Behind

1303
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: the Bastards dot com. You can also find us on

1304
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: social media at Bastard's Pod, so check us out. We'll

1305
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: be putting sources and images up so that you can

1306
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: sort of follow along and get the visual picture of

1307
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: the story. And we will be back on Thursday with

1308
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: part two of this particular Bastard's tale. H m m