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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer and

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Speaker 1: I love all things tech, and today we're going to

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Speaker 1: start a week long journey to talk about a very

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Speaker 1: important agency that relates to technology. In many episodes of

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff, I have referenced DARPA, also known as the

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Speaker 1: Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. It is the research arm

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Speaker 1: of the United States Department of Defense, and DARPA projects

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Speaker 1: have led to some pretty incredible technologies like the Internet

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Speaker 1: and autonomous cars spoiler alert for this week. But what

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Speaker 1: about the agency itself? What is its history? So in

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Speaker 1: the following episodes, I hope to give you guys an

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Speaker 1: insight into one of the most secretive organizations in the

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Speaker 1: United States. This agency hides in plain site, and it

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Speaker 1: essentially advertises itself with some of its larger profile projects,

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Speaker 1: like the various Grand challenges that lead to things like

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Speaker 1: autonomous cars and UH and and more advanced humanoid robots.

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Speaker 1: So I'll be talking more about some of those in

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Speaker 1: my upcoming suite of episodes about autonomous cars. When I

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Speaker 1: get into that, I'll cover it a little bit in

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Speaker 1: these episodes, but I'll go into more detail when we

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Speaker 1: get into the autonomous car suite. Ultimately, the purpose of

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Speaker 1: DARPA is to make the United States technologically superior to

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Speaker 1: other countries. Is to maintain technological superiority, and that includes

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Speaker 1: making high tech weaponry and military systems. It is part

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Speaker 1: of the Defense Department. So while many of the stories

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Speaker 1: about DARPA have focused on the Gali g whiz that

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Speaker 1: texture is amazing kind of side of things, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at the whole picture, which sometimes gets pritty darn grim.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's important to consider both the good

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Speaker 1: and the bad. We shouldn't just, you know, focus on

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Speaker 1: one at the expense of the other. So to understand

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Speaker 1: the climate that would create DARPA, we really need to

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Speaker 1: think back to World War Two and the development of

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Speaker 1: the atomic bomb. The Manhattan Project took advantage of some

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Speaker 1: of the most talented physicists and engineers in America, and

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Speaker 1: during the course of the development of the atomic bomb,

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Speaker 1: which was based off the process of nuclear fission splitting

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Speaker 1: the atom, the team also explored the possibility of a

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Speaker 1: fusion bomb a k A hydrogen bomb. Now during World

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Speaker 1: War Two, the Manhattan Project focused mainly on vision bombs

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Speaker 1: because a lot more work was going to be needed

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Speaker 1: to make a fusion bomb possible. There was work being

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Speaker 1: done on that, but it was trailing way behind. It

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Speaker 1: was considered to be far more complicated and difficult to do,

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Speaker 1: and therefore it was given low priority because of the

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Speaker 1: necessity to build a bomb in a wartime environment. So

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Speaker 1: some members of the team ended up being opposed to

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Speaker 1: working on a fusion bomb, particularly once the atomic bombs

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Speaker 1: dropped on Hiroshima, Nagasaki were deployed, because they were worried well.

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Speaker 1: They said, the atomic bombs were already bad enough, the

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Speaker 1: fusion bomb would be much much more destructive. There was

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Speaker 1: even a fear that such a device might ignite the atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: setting setting the atmosphere itself on fire, which would obviously

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Speaker 1: kill everyone all over the world after a single detonation.

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Speaker 1: The idea that you could have a world ending event

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Speaker 1: by detonating one of these bombs. But even without that

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Speaker 1: doomsday scenario, the thought was that such a bomb would

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Speaker 1: cause such widespread devastation that it would by its nature

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Speaker 1: wipe out civilian populations that there'd be no dancing around

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Speaker 1: it that you could argue, well, these other bombs we've created,

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Speaker 1: we meant for military installations, and tragically that also meant

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Speaker 1: that civilian populations were affected because of their proximity to

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Speaker 1: those military installations. With a fusion bomb, the effect would

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Speaker 1: be so large that you couldn't really use that as

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Speaker 1: a justification. It was going to affect millions of people,

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Speaker 1: So it raised serious ethical concerns among many who were

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Speaker 1: working on the Manhattan Project. After World War Two and

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Speaker 1: after the bombing of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, there was still ongoing

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Speaker 1: debate about whether or not any work should be done

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Speaker 1: on creating a hydrogen bomb. Then, in nineteen forty nine,

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union would conduct its first test of an

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Speaker 1: atomic bomb detonation, and that changed things in the US.

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Speaker 1: The General Advisory Committee of the US Atomic Energy Commission

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Speaker 1: unanimously recommended that the United States not pursue the development

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Speaker 1: of a hydrogen bomb. This was all the conscientious objector

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Speaker 1: who said such a technology is too terrible to even develop,

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Speaker 1: let alone build and deploy. That group would include people

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Speaker 1: like Jay Robert Oppenheimer, who was the chairman of the

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Speaker 1: Manhattan Project. Also Enrico Fermi and Isadore Robbie. They argued

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Speaker 1: that the hydrogen bomb would be a weapon so powerful

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Speaker 1: that it would just be an evil upon the world

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Speaker 1: to build it. But there were other scientists like Edward

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Speaker 1: Teller and Ernest Lawrence who were not on the General

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Speaker 1: Advisory Committee, but they were in favor of developing a

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Speaker 1: hydrogen bomb. They argued that the Soviets would pursue developing

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Speaker 1: the hydrogen bomb whether or not the United States did,

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Speaker 1: and therefore there would be a gap in in capability

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Speaker 1: if the US did not develop it first. There would

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Speaker 1: be nothing to stop the Soviet Union from threatening to

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Speaker 1: use such a bomb against the US and forced the

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Speaker 1: US to surrender, because what country would allow its population

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Speaker 1: to be wiped out in such a way if they

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Speaker 1: did not have that capability themselves. So President Truman agreed

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Speaker 1: with Teller and Lawrence and said that the development of

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Speaker 1: a hydrogen bomb should happen in In In nineteen fifty, he

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Speaker 1: authorized an official program to develop such a bomb. As

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Speaker 1: part of that program, a second nuclear weapons development lab

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Speaker 1: would be formed. The original one was the Los Alamos Lab.

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Speaker 1: That's where the Manhattan Project tests took place, where the

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Speaker 1: atomic bombs were born. The second lab was founded in Livermore, California,

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Speaker 1: at the University of California's Radiation Lab, later known as

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Speaker 1: the Livermore Lab and later still as the Lawrence Livermore Lab.

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Speaker 1: The Los Alamos Group built a bomb based off a

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Speaker 1: design that Edward Teller had worked on, and they tested

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Speaker 1: this hydrogen bomb in nineteen fifty four. It was a

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Speaker 1: proof of concept hydrogen bomb that had been tested two

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Speaker 1: years earlier, actually in nineteen fifty two. That was a

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Speaker 1: smaller one, but that was based off an impractical design

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Speaker 1: for an actual weapon. It was more of a proof

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Speaker 1: of concept. This one in nineteen fifty four was a

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Speaker 1: working hydrogen bomb. It was part of a test called

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Speaker 1: Operation Castle, and it ended up detonating with fifteen mega

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Speaker 1: tons of force, which was far far more powerful than

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Speaker 1: the group had anticipated. Uh there were stories about during

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Speaker 1: the detonation the initial reaction from the observers was one

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Speaker 1: of panic that the explosion, because it was so huge

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Speaker 1: and the the fire cloud was growing so quickly, that

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Speaker 1: there was at least a moment where people began to

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Speaker 1: worry that perhaps they had in fact ignited the atmosphere

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Speaker 1: and that this was the end. Ended up not being

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Speaker 1: quite that bad, but it was much much stronger than

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Speaker 1: they had thought. Meanwhile, the Livermore group to which Teller belonged,

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Speaker 1: had failed to deuce a working nuclear bomb. When the

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Speaker 1: lab was at risk of being shut down, Teller and

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Speaker 1: his team presented designs for a mega super bomb. This

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Speaker 1: would be capable, according to the design, of delivering a

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Speaker 1: ten thousand megaton yield. Keep in mind, the big one

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Speaker 1: that was so big that the scientists were scared of

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Speaker 1: it was fifteen mega tons. Teller's proposal was for a

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Speaker 1: ten thousand mega ton hydrogen bomb. A single bomb of

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Speaker 1: that power would be capable of wiping out an entire continent,

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Speaker 1: not just a region, an entire continent with one bomb.

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Speaker 1: HERB York, who was a member of this team, would

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Speaker 1: later explain the reasoning for that design. He said that

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Speaker 1: the US had to employ a really aggressive research and

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Speaker 1: development practice to maintain its technological advantage against adversaries, and

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Speaker 1: that this unfortunately also meant an escalation of an arms race,

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Speaker 1: but that without it, the U s would be endanged

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Speaker 1: of being vulnerable to enemy attack. The Livermore Lab would

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Speaker 1: continue developing bomb technology, particularly after the Soviet Union tested

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Speaker 1: its first hydrogen bomb, and the nuclear arms race was

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Speaker 1: picking up speed very very quickly, and the Livermore Group

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Speaker 1: was relying upon computer systems based off John von Neumann's

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Speaker 1: designs to speed things up. I talked about him very

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Speaker 1: recently and in tech stuff. Meanwhile, as engineers were finding

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Speaker 1: new and exciting ways to potentially kill millions of people,

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Speaker 1: and yes that's me being sardonic, there there was a

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Speaker 1: growing concern about what the citizens of the United States

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Speaker 1: could do in the event of a nuclear strike on

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Speaker 1: the US. So the US had formed a Civil Defense Agency,

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Speaker 1: but it became clear early on, at least to the

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Speaker 1: people running that agency, that the options open to US

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Speaker 1: if a nuclear strike were to be carried out against

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Speaker 1: the United States would be limited at best and completely

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Speaker 1: ineffective at worst. Concern and fear about nuclear war was

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Speaker 1: growing as the Cold War continued. Some people like von Neumann,

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Speaker 1: felt that a nuclear confrontation was pretty much a guarantee

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Speaker 1: at some point in the future. Now it was that

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Speaker 1: philosophy that would become a cornerstone of DARPA. But the

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Speaker 1: historical event that would really lead to DARPA's founding happened

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Speaker 1: on October fourth, nineteen fifty seven. That's when the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Union successfully launched Sputnik, the first man made satellite to

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Speaker 1: go into orbit around Earth. Sputnik was transmitting a simple

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Speaker 1: signal over radio waves, which meant the US didn't have

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Speaker 1: to take the Soviets at their word about launching a

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Speaker 1: satellite into orbit. They could pick it up themselves. Ham operators,

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Speaker 1: even amateur ones, could pick up the beeping transmission as

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Speaker 1: the satellite passed overhead. In fact, my old co host

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Speaker 1: Chris Palette would refer to spot Nick as the ball

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Speaker 1: what beeps. Spot Nik was launched from an intercontinental ballistic

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Speaker 1: miss SOUL and ICBM, and while spot Nik was a

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Speaker 1: primitive and limited satellite couldn't do much other than transmit

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Speaker 1: this signal, it did mean the Soviets would be able

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Speaker 1: to launch payloads across the world to hit a distant

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Speaker 1: target such as the United States, and those payloads might

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Speaker 1: include something like a hydrogen bomb, and the US population

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Speaker 1: was beginning to panic. For years, Americans were convinced that

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Speaker 1: their country was well ahead of all others scientifically and technologically,

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Speaker 1: and in military matters as well. But the Soviets had

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Speaker 1: launched a satellite first, and now that belief in America's

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Speaker 1: capabilities was shaken, and that anxiety that citizens were feeling

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Speaker 1: was shared by branches of the US military. The Air

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Speaker 1: Force and the Navy were both developing long range missiles

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Speaker 1: that could be used for weapons or for sending payloads

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Speaker 1: to space. The American approach to developing this technology was fractured.

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Speaker 1: These branches were working independently to varying greece of success,

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Speaker 1: whereas in the Soviet Union it was more focused. Although

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Speaker 1: changes at the top of the administration level would make

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Speaker 1: setbacks happen in that country, but let's focus on the

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Speaker 1: United States. So the nationwide anxiety in the in the

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Speaker 1: States grew. On December twentieth, nineteen fifty seven, President Eisenhower

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Speaker 1: had previously rejected a report that had the title Deterrence

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Speaker 1: and Survival in the Nuclear Age, better known as the

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Speaker 1: Gaither Report after h Rowan Gaither, one of the people

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Speaker 1: who was working on the panel that produced it. This

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Speaker 1: report concluded that there was no effective way to protect

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Speaker 1: US civilians from a nuclear war in the case of

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Speaker 1: an all out strike from the Soviets, and so the

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Speaker 1: United States should produce more nuclear warheads to act as

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Speaker 1: a deterrent to say, you don't want to attack us,

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Speaker 1: because we'll attack you back, and we'll destroy each other.

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Speaker 1: This is that mutually assured destruction strategy. The report also

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Speaker 1: warned that the Soviet Union was possibly on the verge

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Speaker 1: of producing thousands of I c b ms that might

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Speaker 1: deliver a nuclear payload across the world, but Eisenhower knew

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the case. He knew something the expert panel

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Speaker 1: didn't know because he had access to top secret spy

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Speaker 1: information from You two spy planes, which were still highly

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Speaker 1: classified at that time. No one outside of a small

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Speaker 1: group of people knew that they even existed, but Eisenhower didn't.

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Speaker 1: He also knew that information from those You two spy

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Speaker 1: planes had shown the Soviets were not ramping up for

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Speaker 1: an all our assault. They were not building out an

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Speaker 1: infrastructure at a furious pace the way the reports suggested.

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Speaker 1: So he rejected this report. He said, this, this does

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Speaker 1: not reflect reality. But then someone leaked that report to

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post, which then published parts of the report,

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Speaker 1: and the subsequent articles sent the United States public into

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Speaker 1: a panic that made the Spotnik event look tiny in comparison.

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Speaker 1: People were freaking out. The president saw the need for

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Speaker 1: action on multiple fronts, including in research and design and innovation.

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Speaker 1: So he turned to an unlikely hero. He turned to

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Speaker 1: the guy who invented soap operas. I'll explain more in

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Speaker 1: a second, but first let's take a quick break to

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Speaker 1: thank our sponsor. So the person that we often credit

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Speaker 1: as being the inventor or the father of the soap

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Speaker 1: opera was Neil H. McElroy, who had been president of

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Speaker 1: the consumer goods company Proctor and Gamble. He had started

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Speaker 1: off in advertising at the company before he rose to

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Speaker 1: the role of president, and in his career he made

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Speaker 1: several innovative changes in the way the company would market

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Speaker 1: to consumers, including creating ads designed to run during daytime television.

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Speaker 1: Because his research showed that many women in the United

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Speaker 1: States were watching daytime TV, so he decided that each

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Speaker 1: product within Procter and Gamble would have its own marketing

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Speaker 1: team creating ads aimed at women to air on daytime TV,

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Speaker 1: and they would be inserted into shows that would have

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Speaker 1: ongoing storylines from show to show soap operas. In other words,

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Speaker 1: he directed those teams to uh do this, and they did,

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Speaker 1: and he sold a lot of soap. In his own words,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty seven, just two days after Sputnik went

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Speaker 1: into orbit, he was sworn in as the Secretary of

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Speaker 1: Defense in President Eisenhower's administration, an interesting move to go

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Speaker 1: from president of Procter and Gamble to the Secretary of Defense.

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Speaker 1: McIlroy proposed that the United States form a new agency

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Speaker 1: called the Advanced Research Projects Agency or ARPA. The DARPA

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Speaker 1: name would come later, and go and then come back

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Speaker 1: again anyway. McIlroy's vision was for an agency that would

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Speaker 1: oversee scientific and technological research and development in multiple fields

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Speaker 1: and applications, all with an eye towards securing the United

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Speaker 1: States as the most technologically advanced and capable country in

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Speaker 1: the world. He was advocating that the U s invest

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Speaker 1: not just in the immediate crisis of answering the Soviets

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Speaker 1: displays of technological capabilities and the uh space race that

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Speaker 1: would soon follow, but also to constantly work toward the

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Speaker 1: future of innovation, not just to focus on a single

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Speaker 1: problem and once that was solved, to finish, but to

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Speaker 1: be an ongoing concern. The agency's job was to future

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Speaker 1: proof weapons and defense technologies. McIlroy's proposal one support from politicians,

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Speaker 1: but it won a lot of criticism from military officers.

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Speaker 1: Part of what McIlroy was proposing was using area to

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Speaker 1: advance the US's efforts to exploit outer space, and the

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Speaker 1: various branches of the armed forces all claimed that that

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Speaker 1: was their domain. They didn't want to surrender it. They

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Speaker 1: all had their own projects in line, and they were

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Speaker 1: worried about money being diverted from their efforts into some

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Speaker 1: other one. They were thinking it was all going to

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Speaker 1: dilute the field. The Joint chiefs of Staff didn't want

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Speaker 1: to see this agency form, but Eisenhower, who himself was

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Speaker 1: a former five star general, was out of patients. He

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Speaker 1: did not like the constant disagreements between the various military branches,

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Speaker 1: or the fact that different branches were independently pursuing similar

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Speaker 1: goals but not sharing resources. He felt there was too

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Speaker 1: much waste, not enough focused, enough cooperation, and so on

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Speaker 1: January seven, nineteen fifty eight, Eisenhower authorized a budget to

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Speaker 1: McElroy for the founding of our PA. Now, the initial

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Speaker 1: budget for the founding was about ten million dollars, but

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Speaker 1: over the course of nineteen fifty nine, the first full

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Speaker 1: year of our PA really running projects, it would have

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Speaker 1: a budget of more than half a billion dollars, which

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Speaker 1: in the late nineteen fifties was an incredible, incredibly huge

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Speaker 1: amount of money. It's huge. Now, don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 1: I would not refuse half a billion dollars, but back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty nine that was even more of an enormous,

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Speaker 1: unimaginably huge sum Eisenhower revealed the need for ARPA to

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Speaker 1: the United States and his nine State of the Union address,

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Speaker 1: he said, we need an organization dedicated to this pursuit

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Speaker 1: of innovation. He laid out the case, and he simultaneously

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Speaker 1: casted a lot of shade on the top officials of

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Speaker 1: the various military branches. There was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: reprimand in that State of the Union address. Meanwhile, the

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Speaker 1: U S Army was preparing to answer the U S

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Speaker 1: s RS spot Nick with the launch of the first

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Speaker 1: U S satellite called Explorer one. Now, unlike spot Nick,

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Speaker 1: which really just orbited the Earth and beeped a lot,

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Speaker 1: the Explorer one was packed with instruments meant to do

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Speaker 1: some serious research. And the Explorer one would detect the

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Speaker 1: Van Allen radiation belts around the Earth, making it the

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Speaker 1: first space instrument to produce a major discovery, but Eisenhower

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Speaker 1: felt the task of developing, building, launching, and administering space

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Speaker 1: missions should not fall to the army, so that would

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Speaker 1: be at least initially part of ARPA's domain. To head

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Speaker 1: up the new ARPA agency, McElroy would name Roy W.

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Speaker 1: Johnson as director. Johnson had been a vice president of

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Speaker 1: General Electric, and the deputy director would be Rear Admiral

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Speaker 1: John Clark. McIlroy whittled down the list of candidates for

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Speaker 1: chief Scientists to two people. One of those two people

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Speaker 1: was Herb York, the guy who was part of Edward

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Speaker 1: Teller's team. The other was Werner von Brown, the German

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Speaker 1: scientist who had been a prominent figure in Germany's rocketry

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Speaker 1: program during World War Two. The United States had brought

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Speaker 1: Von Brown over as part of Operation paper Clip, in

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Speaker 1: which the United States would put to work many former

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Speaker 1: Nazi scientists on US projects. Not all those scientists were

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Speaker 1: necessarily sympathizers with the Nazis, I should add some of

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Speaker 1: them probably were, but not all of them were. But

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Speaker 1: all of them ended up being put to work in

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Speaker 1: the US, and or at least all the ones that

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Speaker 1: the US picked up and Van Brown had a condition

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Speaker 1: that if he were to be offered the role of

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Speaker 1: Chief Scientists over at ARPA, he also wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: over a dozen or so of his peers who had

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Speaker 1: been brought over an Operation paper Clip, and ultimately McElroy

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Speaker 1: decided that this was probably not a good move for

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Speaker 1: the young agency. It might look really bad to have

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Speaker 1: a government agency merely completely staffed with former Nazi scientists,

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Speaker 1: so he chose to put herb York in the role

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Speaker 1: of chief Scientists instead. The two major areas that ARPA

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Speaker 1: would initially focus on were military space activities and anti

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Speaker 1: missile strategies. Essentially, how can the US rapidly match the

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Speaker 1: Soviets capabilities while simultaneously counteracting any possible advantage they might

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Speaker 1: have attained over the United States? And it would be

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Speaker 1: a good time to talk about how the agency worked

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Speaker 1: in general. So our path is not some big, super

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Speaker 1: secret laboratory with scientists and engineers pouring out various liquids

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Speaker 1: into other various liquids, or running electricity through stuff and

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Speaker 1: shouting it's alive. It's more like an RFP and funding operation.

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Speaker 1: So an RFP as a request for proposal. It's where

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Speaker 1: an organization states a goal that it wants to achieve,

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Speaker 1: maybe some general guidelines on how it it assumes this

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Speaker 1: goal will be achieved, and then invites qualified organizations or

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Speaker 1: individuals to apply to be part of this project, essentially

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Speaker 1: to receive funding from our PA in order to pursue

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Speaker 1: these goals and to achieve them. So with our path,

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Speaker 1: these were proposals to develop technologies that would contribute to

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Speaker 1: the defense of the United States in some way, shape

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Speaker 1: or form. These r fps can arrange from very specific

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Speaker 1: to extremely broad. Our PA tends to work with research facilities, universities,

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Speaker 1: and defense contractors a lot. The agency can set parameters

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Speaker 1: and collaborate with these parties, but ultimately it exists to

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Speaker 1: a minister those programs. And a lot of stuff was

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Speaker 1: happening all at once at this time. In fact, this

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Speaker 1: episode and the next one in particular, are going to

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Speaker 1: have a lot of concurrent things happening. And it's because

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Speaker 1: it's very hard to jump around. If I were to

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Speaker 1: go just chronologically, I would have to switch gears so

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Speaker 1: frequently that it would be Oh and by the way,

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Speaker 1: you remember when I was talking about twenty minutes ago

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Speaker 1: about such and such, Well, here's what was happening then,

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Speaker 1: and I thought that would be too confusing, so instead

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try and focus project by project. In general,

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Speaker 1: so ARPA was gearing up to develop space technologies and

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Speaker 1: an umbrella of programs dedicated to bringing down missiles that

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Speaker 1: was called Project Defender that was starting to shape up.

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Speaker 1: That would become the biggest project of ARPA at least

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Speaker 1: in those early years. But while all that was going on,

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Speaker 1: President Eisenhower was also exploring the possible ability of a

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Speaker 1: nuclear test ban. The fallout, both literal and figurative, of

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Speaker 1: the Castle Operation tests was catastrophic, and things were bound

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Speaker 1: to get worse as both the US and the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Union continued to build up nuclear arsenals and test nuclear warheads.

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Speaker 1: Eisenhower wanted to arrive in an agreement with the USSR

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Speaker 1: and with Khrushchev to bring nuclear weapon tests to an end,

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Speaker 1: but there was a big concern what if one side

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Speaker 1: stuck to the agreement while the other one didn't. How

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Speaker 1: could the United States be certain that the Soviets would

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Speaker 1: stay true to such an agreement. And so one of

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Speaker 1: the big projects that area would launch, in addition to

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Speaker 1: the Defender and military space projects, would be called VILA

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Speaker 1: v E l A. Now, the purpose of VILA or

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Speaker 1: VELA if you prefer, was to create systems that could

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Speaker 1: detect a nuclear weapons test. VILA had three sub programs.

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Speaker 1: They were codenamed Hotel, Uniform, and Sierra. These programs sought

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Speaker 1: to design and build technology that could detect a nuclear

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Speaker 1: explosion through atmospheric sensing or seismic sensing, so in other words,

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Speaker 1: testing for radioactive isotopes that are perhaps airborne, or looking

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Speaker 1: for any tremors in the Earth that could indicate the

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Speaker 1: detonation of a nuclear warhead. That way, the United States

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Speaker 1: could say, hey, we picked up the evidence that you

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Speaker 1: in fact did detonate nuclear war warhead despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that we've agreed to this. This test band back to

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Speaker 1: space for a second. So ARPA came into being shortly

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Speaker 1: before NASA. ARPA NASA both were launched figuratively speaking, the

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Speaker 1: same year nineteen. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration became

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Speaker 1: official on October one, nineteen fifty eight, so several months

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Speaker 1: after ARPA had begun. ARPA, therefore was the agency responsible

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Speaker 1: for overseeing the development of space technologies like launch vehicles

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Speaker 1: for those first several months, and ARPA began to fund

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Speaker 1: programs dedicated to developing different types of rockets. One of

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Speaker 1: those was designed from vor von Brown's team. Von Brown

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Speaker 1: had led the development of a booster rocket technology that

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Speaker 1: his team called the Juno five. This design, which was

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Speaker 1: never built as the actual design was made, would find

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Speaker 1: itself it's it's design would find itself as the basis

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Speaker 1: for future rockets. It was a multi stage approach and

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Speaker 1: essentially it evolved into what would become the Saturn launch vehicle.

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Speaker 1: In addition to the Juno five program, ARPA authorized the

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Speaker 1: development of a liquid oxygen slash hydrogen upper stage rocket.

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Speaker 1: This one was called Centaur, and the upper stage design

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Speaker 1: would become part of launch vehicles like Atlas the Titan three.

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Speaker 1: In the Titan four, it was intended to fly on

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Speaker 1: Saturn launch vehicles, but that never actually happened. While ARPA

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Speaker 1: began those programs, the agency would eventually transfer them over

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Speaker 1: to NASA in nineteen fifty nine as that agency began

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Speaker 1: to take on the role of developing the non military,

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Speaker 1: civilian US space program. I've got more to say about

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Speaker 1: the earliest days of Darba, but before I get to that,

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Speaker 1: let's take another quick break to thank our sponsor. Before

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Speaker 1: I jump off the topic of space for a little bit,

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Speaker 1: another ARPA initiated project I should mention is the Television

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Speaker 1: and Infrared Observations Satellite Program or TYROS t I r

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Speaker 1: O S. TYROS would be the prototype satellite for weather reporting, research,

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Speaker 1: and forecasting. It grew out of an older Army project

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Speaker 1: called Janus, which is making me think of James Bond

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Speaker 1: type stuff. But the project was not just about sussing

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Speaker 1: out the technology we would need to design and build

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Speaker 1: to achieve the goal. It was also about the process

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Speaker 1: of bringing together all the pieces that you would need

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Speaker 1: to make it happen, which included scientists, engineers, contracting firms,

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00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: federal agencies. So it was a real practical test of

433
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: the administration side of URPA, not just its scientific prowess,

434
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: but how could it bring together all these different components

435
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: to work towards a unified goal. It was really complicated.

436
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: So it's one thing to build brand new technology that

437
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: no one's made before, but it's another to navigate all

438
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: the various bureaucracies in the academic, industrial and political worlds.

439
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: TYROS would become the first weather satellite to be placed

440
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: in orbit, and it happened on April first, nineteen sixty.

441
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: It sent back messages as a television signal to a

442
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: ground station at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. The mission wasn't

443
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: meant to last a super long time. I want to

444
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: say Tyros was an operation for like seventy six days,

445
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: but in the course of those seventy six days it

446
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: would send back twenty two fifty two images via TV

447
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: signal back to Earth. In addition to transferring the civilian

448
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: based space projects to NASA, ARPA would transfer the military

449
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: projects to the various branches of the U. S Military,

450
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: which of the agency to focus on other programs like

451
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: nuclear test detection technology of the Vela project and the

452
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: anti missile technologies in the Defender project. So in order

453
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: to counteract missiles, first you gotta know where those missiles are.

454
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: So before McElroy and Eisenhower had established ARPA, the President's

455
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Science Advisory Committee produced a report calling for the need

456
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: for technologies that could detect, track, and identify a large

457
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: number of objects moving at high altitudes and speeds. In

458
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: n ARPA would respond to that need by holding a competition,

459
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: and the goal was to design a two dimensional phased

460
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: array radar that had automatic beam steering control. Now that

461
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: sounds complicated, but the basic idea is actually pretty simple

462
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: to grasp. Radar sends out radio waves and then it

463
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: listens for the returning echoes after the radio waves have

464
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: bounced off something and come back to the transmitting area

465
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: for being received by a new antenna. The timing on

466
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: those echoes you know how long it went out versus

467
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: came back, and the frequency of the returning waves will

468
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: tell the radar operator how far away something is and

469
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: whether it's moving toward or away from the radar station.

470
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: The thing about waves, though, is that you can combine

471
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: them in different ways to either boost the signal in

472
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: certain directions or to cancel out the signal in certain directions.

473
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: Noise canceling headphones do this, so we're going with sound

474
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: waves here instead of radar waves or radio waves, but

475
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: stick with me. Noise canceling headphones will produce sound waves

476
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: that are in one eighty degrees out of phase with

477
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: incoming noise. So if you were to graph out the

478
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: sound waves of the ambient noise in the room, you

479
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: would have peaks and valleys. Right, you've seen sound waves

480
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: or depictions of sound waves before, the noise cancelation technology

481
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: will produce troughs and peaks that are in one degrees

482
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: out of phase, so the peak on one on the

483
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: ambient sound will match up with the trough of the

484
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: sound produced by the noise canceling headphones, and ultimately those

485
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: two opposing waves cancel each other out. The phased array

486
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: would do something similar. You would have a transmitter or

487
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: lots of transmitters actually sending out a signal to a

488
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: series of radar antenna. Between the transmitters and the antenna,

489
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: you would have a phase shifter which can change the

490
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: signal slightly before it gets to the respect of antenna.

491
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: The phase shifters are controlled by a computer, and the

492
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: computer runs calculations so that the phase of the signals

493
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: going to each antenna are such that the computer can

494
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: electronically steer the direction of the radar beams. That eliminates

495
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: the need to actually physically turn the antenna. You don't

496
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: need to mechanically move them at all. Using the physics

497
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: of waves, the computer can strengthen the signal in certain

498
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: directions and eliminate it in others, effectively pointing the beam

499
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: electronically just by tweaking those phases. It's pretty cool. The

500
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: project became known as the Electronically Steered Array Radar or

501
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: s R E s a R. It was a success.

502
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: The Bendix Corporation built it and it was a proven technology.

503
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: Star would lead to the development of the FPS eight

504
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: five and extremely powerful radar that became part of the

505
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: Space Track system overseen by the Air Force. The FPS

506
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: E D five is thirteen stories tall. The radar consists

507
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: of five thousand, one hundred thirty four transmitters, four thousand,

508
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: six hundred sixty receivers, five thousand, nine hundred twenty eight

509
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: transmitter antennas. It's truly enormous. Construction on the FPS A

510
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: D five began in nineteen sixty two. It was meant

511
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: to go into operation in nineteen sixty five, but there

512
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: was a fire at the facility that pushed everything back

513
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: and it wasn't ready to go until nineteen sixty nine.

514
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: But it can track up to two hundred objects simultaneously.

515
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty ARPA and the c i A partnered

516
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: to fund another program. This one was called Corona, which

517
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: used to be a top secret classified project that's since

518
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: been declassified. Now it's no surprise as to why it

519
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: used to be top secret. Corona was a series of

520
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: spy satellites. The original Corona satellite was the first imaging

521
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: reconnaissance satellite, meaning it would take actual photographs of the

522
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: areas that would pass over to collect intelligence on behalf

523
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: of the United States. So the idea was you would

524
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: make this satellite. It was only designed to go into

525
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: orbit for a relatively short amount of time, going over

526
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: the Earth maybe a dozen two dozen times, collecting images

527
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: as it goes along, and then ejects a capsule that

528
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: contains the film because it was actually shot on film.

529
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: They used a film camera and have that returned to

530
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: Earth where the United States military officials would retrieve it,

531
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: and then you could go over all the images. So

532
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: the early history of Corona actually predates the founding of

533
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: our PA. The US recognized the need to develop reconnaissance

534
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: satellites in the nineteen fifties. The YOU two spy plane,

535
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: which was effective over much of the world, was not

536
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: as useful when it came to the Soviet Union because

537
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: the USSR had developed high quality radar systems capable of

538
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: picking up the U two. So initially the hope was

539
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,719
Speaker 1: that the YOU two would only be needed for a

540
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: year or so before a satellite solution could take its place,

541
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: because the satellite would pass at an altitude so great

542
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: that radar would probably not be able to pick it up.

543
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: But setbacks and bottlenecks kept all of that from happening quickly,

544
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: and so the YouTube had to stay in operation longer

545
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: than they had intended, including over the USSR and whenever

546
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: soviets would detect a YouTube that would raise danger of

547
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: a confrontation, one that might begin with shooting down a plane,

548
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: possibly end with escalating tensions, and it could potentially result

549
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: in armed conflict. So there was a need to find

550
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: a sneak kere way to spy on people. On May one,

551
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty the U S s R did shoot down

552
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: a YouTube plane, which justified those fears that people had

553
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: had in the fifties. By that time, the Corona project

554
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: had been in development for quite a bit but had

555
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: yet to have a successful flight. Now I could do

556
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: a full episode about Corona in the future. It was

557
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: a fascinating project, but we're gonna skip ahead a little bit.

558
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: So the project had numerous early failures. You had one

559
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: attempt was a misfire on the launchpad. Three attempts failed

560
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: to achieve orbit to went into orbit, but the orbit

561
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: was considered highly eccentric, in other words, not useful. UH.

562
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: One of them prematurely ejected its film capsule, which was

563
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: again meant to res atmosphere for a retrieval uh. But

564
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: there was another one that just the camera failed completely.

565
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: One of them the camera worked for a short while

566
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: but failed nearly immediately afterward. So from teen fifty eight

567
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: until nineteen sixty, the Corona project was a series of

568
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: misfortunes and failures, ranging from near success to total catastrophe.

569
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: This was the case until essentially August of nineteen sixty.

570
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: ARPA and the CIA had provided the funds needed to

571
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: push to actual success. So while the project predated Arba,

572
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: ARPA was able to put funds to it to keep

573
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: it going long enough for the team to actually get

574
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: it to work. So in August nineteen sixty, the Discoverer

575
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: thirteen spacecraft was a successful proof of concept. Discoverer, by

576
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: the way, was the public cover name for the Corona

577
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: classified missions, so the United States would admit that it

578
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: was launching a payload into space. It was kind of

579
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: hard to cover that sort of stuff. Up and they

580
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: called it Discoverer, and they claimed it was a scientific

581
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: research satellite, but in fact it was a reconnaissance satellite.

582
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 1: So the Discoverer thirteen had a successful launch. I guess

583
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: that's ironic that it was thirteen and was lucky. It

584
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: orbited the Earth several times, it ejected its return capsule successfully.

585
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: The return capsule was retrieved, even though it landed hundreds

586
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: of miles away from where they had planned it to go.

587
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: But this particular satellite didn't have a camera aboard. It

588
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: was really just a diagnostic flight to see if the

589
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 1: tweaks that had been made to the spacecraft would actually work. Uh.

590
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: The hardware was delivered directly to the Smithsonian and the

591
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: well first the President, then the Smithsonian after retrieval, because

592
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: there was no need to cover it up. The secret

593
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: spy stuff hadn't been part of it. So everyone just thought, oh, well,

594
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: that's cool. We shot something up into space and then

595
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: we were able to retrieve it. That would obviously be

596
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: an important component when we get to the point when

597
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: we were ready to send people up there. So everyone

598
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: kind of bought that this was a step toward putting

599
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: people in space. In reality, the Discover fourteen project, the

600
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: one to follow of the first successful flight would be

601
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: the first to capture actual images on a successful launch

602
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: that happened on August eighth, nineteen sixty, It carried a

603
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: twenty pound load of film. It made seventeen orbits of

604
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: the earth, including seven flyovers of Soviet territory, and it

605
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: took numerous images. In fact, it took enough images that

606
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: it produced more than all the YouTube missions that had

607
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: ever flown over the Soviet Union up to that point combined,

608
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: but at a lower resolution. The resolution was somewhere around

609
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: forty feet, meaning that was the smallest it could image,

610
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: so not super sharp pictures. Well, that wraps up this

611
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: first episode about DARPA the origins of DARPA. We have

612
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: tons more to cover, and I hope you will join

613
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: me for the next few shows where we look more

614
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: into the UH, the history and evolution of the agency

615
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: and some of the technologies it was instrumental in pion

616
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: you ring. It's a fascinating thing. I've got a few

617
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: other things I want to talk about. First of all,

618
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with me, the

619
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: best way to do it is to go to Text

620
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast dot com. That's our website. You can find

621
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: all the ways to contact me there and I look

622
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: forward to hearing from you. Also, you should know that

623
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: we have our merchandise store over at t public dot

624
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: com slash tech Stuff, and T public is holding all

625
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 1: sorts of sales all through the holiday season. So whether

626
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: you're looking at tech Stuff or other shows stores, take

627
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: a look. Make sure you go over there check it out,

628
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: because you never know you might be able to find

629
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: the perfect gift at a markdown. So I recommend you

630
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: head on over there. Especially, you know, if you're thinking,

631
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: I really want to tech stuff T shirt or sticker

632
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: or something, We've got those. And you should know that

633
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: tech Stuff has been nominated for an I Heart Radio

634
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: Podcast Award in the category of best Science and Tech Podcast.

635
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: You can vote and decide who wins this amazing award.

636
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: You can do it on social media and you can

637
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: vote at I Heart Podcast Awards dot com right now.

638
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: The process is really easy. If you're voting on social media,

639
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: your tweet has to include the category so science and Tech,

640
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: the nominee that'd be tech Stuff, and hashtag i Heeart

641
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: Podcast Awards. You can use the hashtag for tech Stuff.

642
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: That's hashtag tech podcast or hashtag tech stuff. Either of

643
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: those work. You can vote once per day that way,

644
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: or if you go to I Heeart Podcast Awards dot com,

645
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: you can vote up to five times a day and

646
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: that would be swell Voting INDs on January six, so

647
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 1: go check that out. That's all for me. I'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you again really soon for more on this and

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Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot

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Speaker 1: com m