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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Claskal when We're Talking Transports.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Lee Clascow, Senior Freight Transportation Logistics SANA. Let's at Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts

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Speaker 1: and strategists around the world. A quick public service announcement

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Speaker 1: before we dive in. Your support is instrumental to keep

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Speaker 1: bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and

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Speaker 1: we need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast,

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Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if

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Speaker 1: you've got ideas, feedback, or just want to talk transports,

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Speaker 1: I'm always happy to connect. You can find me on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal LinkedIn are on x AT Logistics lead

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Speaker 1: onto our program. I'm very excited to have Jim Ward,

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Speaker 1: the president of the Truckload Carrier Association or TCA, a

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Speaker 1: position he's held since April twenty twenty two. Jim retired

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Speaker 1: from dm Bawman as CEO and president. His career Bauman

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Speaker 1: spanned it over twenty two years. Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jim's great to have you.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Lee, thank you very much and it's a pleasure

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Speaker 2: to be with you.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the Truckload Carrier Association, can you talk

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Speaker 1: about the industry group? You know, what is your I

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Speaker 1: guess your main mission.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, TCA with offices at five five five East Braddock

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Speaker 2: Road and Allegianda, Virginia. Well, we're basically the only national

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Speaker 2: trade association who's collective, sole focused is the truckload segment

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Speaker 2: of the trucking industry. The association represents drive in, refrigerated

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Speaker 2: tanker and railroannomotive carriers operating in the forty eight contiguous

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Speaker 2: US states Alaska, we have members of Alaska, Mexico, and Canada.

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Speaker 2: So as a significant part of the industry with over

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Speaker 2: and I know you know this, I half a million

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Speaker 2: companies operating means of power units within the United States.

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Speaker 2: TCA and it's truck and company members regularly comment on

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Speaker 2: matters affecting the national transportation industries, common interest and potential impact.

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Speaker 2: So thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's my pleasure. And so so you know, I

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Speaker 1: know you're not related to the American Trucking Associations, but

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Speaker 1: I guess the biggest difference between the two of you

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Speaker 1: is you're just truckload, not less than truckload.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct, And so our core principles at TCA,

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Speaker 2: even though we have an affiliation with ATA, we align

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Speaker 2: on ninety nine percent of our policies. Chris Spire and

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Speaker 2: I are very very good friends. But our core principles

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Speaker 2: at TCA basically tie into five major categories, which are

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Speaker 2: improving the driving job, improving roadway safety, improving the financial

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Speaker 2: stability of a motor carrier, promoting industry environmental stewardship, and

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Speaker 2: improving the industry image. So with these principles of mine again,

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to be with you today and speak to

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Speaker 2: any or all of them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And you know you're You're not just a figurehead there,

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Speaker 1: You're a long term trucker as well. You're at Bowman.

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Speaker 1: Is it Bowman or Bowman?

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Speaker 2: No, it is Bowman DM Bowman Incorporated, Waytesport, Maryland.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your

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Speaker 1: time there?

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Speaker 2: Sure. I first went to work for the Bowman family.

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Speaker 2: I started out as a railroader, believe it or not,

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Speaker 2: and out of school, and at that time the railroad

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Speaker 2: industry was going through a number of different mergers. I

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Speaker 2: was a management trainee. So I started as a brakeman,

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Speaker 2: kind of interesting, learning the yards and all, and one

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Speaker 2: day got tapped on the shoulder and it was shared

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Speaker 2: with me that I had been selected to go to

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Speaker 2: a locomotive engineer school. And so the next thing you know,

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Speaker 2: I was ended up in look about of engineer school

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Speaker 2: and was out running trains and learning to learn in

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Speaker 2: various rails on the eastern half of the US here.

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Speaker 2: And then when they built their headquarters in Jacksonville, Florida,

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Speaker 2: while I had an opportunity to transition there, at that time,

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Speaker 2: there was not much in Jacksonville, Florida, so my wife

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Speaker 2: and I decided that we would stay here. So that's

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Speaker 2: when I departed the railroad and was very blessed to

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Speaker 2: hire on with the Bowman family out of Williamsport, Maryland.

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Speaker 2: Don Bowman is the chairman and part of my career

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Speaker 2: there as a safety manager and spent about thirty years

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Speaker 2: with a company. Had two different two different stints there,

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Speaker 2: but the last time I come back, I come back

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Speaker 2: as the president and CEO was there running the organization

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Speaker 2: for twenty three years along with the family members and

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Speaker 2: an outside board.

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Speaker 1: All right, great, well, let's shift gears back to TCA. So,

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Speaker 1: what are the biggest priorities that you guys are focused

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Speaker 1: on right now in Washington.

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Speaker 2: Well, we just had our fly in two weeks ago

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Speaker 2: of our members and we had one hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 2: meetings over on the Hill, which is pretty significant. And

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Speaker 2: I would just say that one of the one of

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Speaker 2: the major topics the conversation was the upcoming expiring of

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Speaker 2: the IIJA in September thirty of twenty twenty six, which

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Speaker 2: is what funds a highway Trust Fund. So we spent

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of time talking to congressmen and senators

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Speaker 2: and their staffer was about the importance of taking care

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Speaker 2: of of our highways. You know, we often hear hear

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Speaker 2: President Trump say when he comments about our infrastructures here

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Speaker 2: in the US, he says, we're operating on a on

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Speaker 2: a third world highway system, And to some extent, there's

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Speaker 2: a little bit of truth in that. Our professional driving employees,

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Speaker 2: as you know, that's the that's their home, and that's

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Speaker 2: where we keep the free flow of commerce moving every

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Speaker 2: single day. So we had a lot of conversation with

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Speaker 2: representatives about uh, we've recoined the federal fuel tax renamed

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Speaker 2: a gallon's based shooser fee, which we believe creates transparency

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Speaker 2: and helped would help the public better understand how the

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Speaker 2: Highway Trust Fund is financed if it was considered a

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Speaker 2: user's fee, which it really is, because you know, it's

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Speaker 2: a usage feed directly based to a highway use and

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Speaker 2: mouse traveled based on mouth per gallon, and it has

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Speaker 2: not been increased since nineteen ninety three from a federal standpoint,

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Speaker 2: you know, it still stands today at eighteen point four

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Speaker 2: cents for gasoline and twenty four point four cents for

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Speaker 2: d and so due to inflation and ride the construction costs,

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Speaker 2: a cumult of shortfall just recently announced by the CBO

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Speaker 2: over the next nine years twenty twenty four to twenty

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Speaker 2: thirty three, it's going to be about one hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty one billion dollars. And so we have really spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time sharing with them looking at you know,

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Speaker 2: what has been what would we have to increase the

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Speaker 2: federal fuel tax or the gallons base shoes of feet

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Speaker 2: to day, you know, to bring us current, and it's

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Speaker 2: about one hundred and seventeen percent increase lea since nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety three, and you know, that sounds pretty significant, but

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Speaker 2: when you look at the dollars that was that was

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Speaker 2: provided to the infrastructure through the Infrastructure Investments job Act,

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Speaker 2: I mean it literally based on its purchase power with

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Speaker 2: down twenty four percent since twenty twenty one, just due

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Speaker 2: to inflationary costs. So you can just imagine what's happened

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Speaker 2: since nineteen ninety three. So we spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time speaking with representatives about our support of, you know,

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Speaker 2: the electric vehicle registration fee for the general public as

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Speaker 2: well as hybrids. They're looking at a two hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty dollars registration fee for electric vehicles passenger vehicles, that is,

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Speaker 2: they're looking at one hundred dollars. So if you take

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Speaker 2: all those dollars and then we also encourage them to

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Speaker 2: eliminate the federal ex scize tax, which brings about six

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Speaker 2: point nine billion dollars a year into the Highway Trust

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Speaker 2: Fund to try to bringing new equipment into the industry

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Speaker 2: rather than paying that that twelve percent tax has been

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Speaker 2: around since the World War to try to try to

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Speaker 2: fund the war. We truly believe that this would be

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Speaker 2: a great way to be able to not only maintain

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Speaker 2: our nation's highways as we continue to move into future,

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Speaker 2: but also be able to build out new highways. And

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Speaker 2: it really what's really interesting about it, One percent of

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Speaker 2: every dollar collected through the federal fuel tax goes to

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Speaker 2: administration costs, So it's really very efficient. It's a very

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Speaker 2: efficient way of being able to be collected and then

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Speaker 2: hopefully that you know, we're good stewards of it and

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Speaker 2: utilize it to build out our highways. But the American

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Speaker 2: Society is Civil Engineers twenty twenty four report that was

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Speaker 2: just released a few months ago rated our bridges a

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Speaker 2: C and our highway system a D plus, So we're

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Speaker 2: very much in need of doing something with the infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like my college transcript, love the dust off of it.

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Speaker 1: Somewhat kidding anyway, So you know, I'm just curious. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that politicians aren't excited to raise tax no

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Speaker 1: matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican. So that

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Speaker 1: must be a hard fight or a hard conversation to

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Speaker 1: have with these congress people.

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Speaker 2: It is a challenge. But you know, as you and

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Speaker 2: I both know, given the debt load that the government

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Speaker 2: is currently faced with, they're looking everywhere to try to

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Speaker 2: find funds and they're looking for ways that are efficient

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Speaker 2: and it makes sense and allows us as as a

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Speaker 2: as a country to be able to continue to grow

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Speaker 2: and expand. And so, you know, Chairman Graves, he came

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Speaker 2: back into the Transportation and Infrastructure as Infrastructure Chairman this

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Speaker 2: year through a waiver and he moved pretty rapidly on

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Speaker 2: on the FAA. And so we've been having conversations with

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Speaker 2: him and constituents on on T and I about this

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Speaker 2: need and about you know, really how efficient it could

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Speaker 2: be and should be, should we should be considered. But

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Speaker 2: you're right, it's it's it's metal concern because nobody wants

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Speaker 2: to continue to or consider attacks. And but you know,

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Speaker 2: with the with the president's philosophy about drill baby drill,

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Speaker 2: and as a capacity continues to improve from a from

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Speaker 2: a a fuel perspective, you know, this is the time

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Speaker 2: I think to be able to really consider doing something.

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Speaker 2: And it's really, like I said, it's the most efficient

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Speaker 2: way and it could be the future. You know, we

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Speaker 2: said several times we'd like to see President Trump be

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Speaker 2: the next guys and her, and he might have an

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Speaker 2: opportu unity to do that, right, And.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious. So the current government shutdown at least,

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Speaker 1: you know, while we're recording this, there's there's a government

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Speaker 1: shut down. Has that impacted the trucking industry directly or indirectly?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that we have seen a direct impact

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Speaker 1: from it yet. I think you know, as you and

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Speaker 1: I both know, the industry is is heavily supported by

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Speaker 1: consumer confidence and the consumer And you know, one thing

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Speaker 1: that we've learned over the years, many years is when

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Speaker 1: the economy's bad to consumer spend and when the economy

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Speaker 1: is good to consumer spend, and as long as the

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Speaker 1: consumer keeps spending, it's you know, our industry seems to

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Speaker 1: hold up pretty well. And so we haven't seen we

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Speaker 1: haven't seen a significant change in that arena yet, but

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Speaker 1: you know, who knows long term what could happen. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff going on. The current administration.

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Speaker 1: You know, they have been a little more I guess

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Speaker 1: they're there. Philosophy is a little more protectionists versus the

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Speaker 1: different Republicans and Democrats that came before. You know, some

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Speaker 1: of those are geared at, you know, being more stringent

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Speaker 1: and with the enforcement of English language proficiency also there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of talk about ending non domiciles CDLs, kind

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Speaker 1: of where does the TCA come in line with this?

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Speaker 1: It's just something that you know, you guys are in

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Speaker 1: favor of as well, and kind of why or why not?

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Speaker 2: So Lee, the answer was yes, and the reason is safety.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, one of our key philosophies and

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Speaker 2: one of the industry's main priorities is being a good

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Speaker 2: neighbor on our nation's highways every single day. And whenever

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Speaker 2: you know you're you see these types of opportunities that's

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Speaker 2: currently being pursued. That's really nothing new.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I came into the business in January of nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: six and at that time, through the Federal Motorcarey Safety

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Speaker 2: Administration regulations just said to be able to get you

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Speaker 2: to be a commercial driver, you need to be knowledgeable

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Speaker 2: of and converse it with the English language. That hasn't

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Speaker 2: that hasn't changed. And so what I think you're seeing

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Speaker 2: is is you're now seeing administration that's putting enforcement into

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Speaker 2: into some of the rules and regulations that's been around

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Speaker 2: for a while. And look, you hate to see anybody

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Speaker 2: be in front of with the potential loss of employment

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Speaker 2: but the fact of the matter is when when you're

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Speaker 2: out here in our nation's highways, we have to be safe.

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Speaker 2: And I think they've identified enough case studies to say, look,

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Speaker 2: if you're not knowledgeable of and converse it with the

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Speaker 2: English language, and you can't communicate with enforcement officers and

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Speaker 2: you're having a difficult time reading road signs, you probably

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be to hint an eighteen wheeler.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would agree with that. Can you

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Speaker 1: give us a little more information about you know, what

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Speaker 1: the heck is a non domicile CDL and and why

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Speaker 1: is it a big deal?

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Speaker 2: Well, the reason is when you see somebody these driver's

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Speaker 2: license and I know there's been some of them posted

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Speaker 2: out there on social media from an individual that's come

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Speaker 2: in out of the country into a state and been

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Speaker 2: able to get a CDL, you see on some of

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Speaker 2: these driver's license that there's there's a single name, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, depending upon the country that you're from,

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Speaker 2: the and I know they're still working their way through

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Speaker 2: this thing to try to really identify that you are

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Speaker 2: at you let me just say, the individual that's out

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Speaker 2: there receiving a commercial driver's license is is eligible to

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Speaker 2: receive a commercial driver's license number one and number two

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Speaker 2: that you know they're receiving it in the state of

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Speaker 2: domicil because I think some of these people that commit

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Speaker 2: out of what we're hearing and seeing from our members,

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Speaker 2: and it's really not been an issue yet for us,

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Speaker 2: just so you know, for our membership, it hasn't been

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Speaker 2: it hasn't been a real challenge. So I think it's

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Speaker 2: it's more kind of these one off individuals that come

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Speaker 2: in out of the country, don't have a place of domicile,

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Speaker 2: possibly live in that truck and get their CDL, and

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Speaker 2: so you know, Secretary Duffy, I know he's identified what

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Speaker 2: is it seven states I think I heard last that

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Speaker 2: are really that are real issues right now, and I

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Speaker 2: know they're they're challenging them with some funding if they

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Speaker 2: if they, as a GWINN get ready to do audits

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Speaker 2: on the commercial driver's license on individuals that they've issued

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Speaker 2: commercial driver's license to to identify whether or not, you know,

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Speaker 2: they are eligible for a commercial driver's license or should

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Speaker 2: they not have received one as a non domicile individual.

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Speaker 2: So it's it's it's really interesting. It's it's still a

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Speaker 2: work in progress. I just heard him the other day

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Speaker 2: on on something one of the shows that he was on.

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Speaker 2: That's well, that's like I said. That's when he mentioned

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Speaker 2: that there were seven states that I think they were

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Speaker 2: having some challenges with right now in regards to this area. So,

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Speaker 2: but from from a member perspective, we've talked with several members,

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Speaker 2: and you know, most of our members, they they do

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Speaker 2: a pretty good background check on the individuals that are

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Speaker 2: coming to work for their organizations, and they also, you know,

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Speaker 2: you have to be able to speak the English language

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Speaker 2: proficient proficiently to be able to work for them. So

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's affecting quality carriers out there in

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Speaker 2: our nation's ways today. I think they're pretty much one all.

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Speaker 2: I've seen some of the numbers that they're reflecting that

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Speaker 2: that could be impacted by it is in this several

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Speaker 2: tens of thousands. Now, whether or not that comes to fruition,

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Speaker 2: I guess we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha interesting stuff. I saw something on Twitter X

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Speaker 1: today there was a CDL, a picture of a CDL

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Speaker 1: and you know, I had no name on it. So

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Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting, interesting stuff. So we'll see how that

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Speaker 1: impacts capacity, which which obviously I don't need to tell

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Speaker 1: you there needs be some more capacity coming out of

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Speaker 1: the market for rates to move higher. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: about emission standards. You know there's this new twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: seven EPA engine standards. I don't know where we are

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Speaker 1: with that with the federal government. You know, given the

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Speaker 1: Trump administrations less focus on green shall we say, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, those could get pushed back given you know

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Speaker 1: the industry in your perspective, is it too late to

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Speaker 1: push things back or are you hopeful they'll push things

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Speaker 1: back in terms of uh, you know when these uh,

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Speaker 1: more expensive engines will be mandated.

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Speaker 2: So the answer is from a buying perspective, the sooner

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Speaker 2: the industry knows what the standard's going to be, the

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Speaker 2: better off everyone's going to be because you can make

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Speaker 2: capital expend your buying decisions. Unfortunately, when you're in when

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Speaker 2: you're in the kind of in flux as we are

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Speaker 2: right now, why you know, it makes it very difficult

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Speaker 2: for fleets to be able to identify what they're going

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Speaker 2: to do from a purchasing standpoint with equipment. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I've applauded a Trump administration for for what they've been

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Speaker 2: able to do because you know, as we moved and

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Speaker 2: again we the industry, as we've said many times, and

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Speaker 2: you know, a new truck today we reduce knocks by

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Speaker 2: ninety eight percent. I mean, it's pretty amazing the efficiency

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Speaker 2: from an environmental perspective of this new equipment which agains.

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Speaker 2: While we want to encourage you know, the repeal of

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Speaker 2: the federal excize tax to be able to continue to

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Speaker 2: put this new equipment into the system, I mean, the

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Speaker 2: challenge is is that a ten year old truck produces

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Speaker 2: eighty five per you know, you could reduce emissions by

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Speaker 2: eighty five percent by getting a ten year old truck

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Speaker 2: off the road. And so that's a really big deal.

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Speaker 2: And so so as the administration continues to look as

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Speaker 2: to what it's going to do, what we would like

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Speaker 2: to see and have basically signed onto a letter with

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Speaker 2: the American Trucking Association that you know, from a Knox perspective,

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Speaker 2: being able to get the OEMs to agree what it

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Speaker 2: should look like. I understand there's been a lot of

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Speaker 2: money invested from from their perspective of trying to you know,

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Speaker 2: get this thing down to this point oh three five

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Speaker 2: versus two hundred where it is today. But it appears

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Speaker 2: to me to let this thing go ahead and continue

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Speaker 2: to ride over the next few years while they continue

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Speaker 2: to work on inside of the EPA as well as

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Speaker 2: the OEMs, deciding how they can, how they get consensus

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Speaker 2: and what works for all of them going forward would

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Speaker 2: benefit everybody. And so you know, we we've asked for

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Speaker 2: him to lock the thing down where it is right now,

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Speaker 2: put us put it in place for five years and

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Speaker 2: look at it as you continue to move forward and

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Speaker 2: then make a decision as to what's in the best

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Speaker 2: interest of all the OEMs and the industry perspective, and

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Speaker 2: importantly our members so that they can make good quality

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Speaker 2: buying decisions. But I'll tell you the administration has made

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Speaker 2: some great strides. And again we know there's we know

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Speaker 2: there's applications where electrification and autonomous trucks make sense, but

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Speaker 2: we don't have the infrastructure for the electrical Class A

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Speaker 2: vehicle right now. I mean, we did a study with Rollenberger,

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Speaker 2: and I mean it was going to cost an excess

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Speaker 2: of a trillion dollars from an investment perspective, just to

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Speaker 2: you know, build out to Paragrid, build out the charging stations,

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Speaker 2: everything that's needed to be able to support an industry

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Speaker 2: that that's transitioning to electricic care. And you know they

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Speaker 2: used example in the Rollenberg study that we were part

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Speaker 2: of that. You know, we were trying to adapt electrification

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Speaker 2: and Class eight vehicles to move America's supply chain like

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Speaker 2: we did to mobile phones. And it doesn't work like that.

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Speaker 2: It's a different world, right, No.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, you mentioned autonomous trucking, So is the TCA not

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Speaker 1: necessarily Are you guys for it or against it? Because

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it will or could impact truckers to

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Speaker 1: the actual drivers.

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Speaker 2: So Lee, when we talk about it, as you know,

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Speaker 2: there's there's five levels, and you know, we're pretty much

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Speaker 2: at the level four right now. We think the industry

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Speaker 2: has significantly benefited by the safety technology on autonomous vehicles

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Speaker 2: and there's more to come, so we fully support it.

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Speaker 2: But what we'd like to do is we call driver

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Speaker 2: assist because we think it's going to be more driver

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Speaker 2: assist equipment than it is going to be autonomous equipment. Now,

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Speaker 2: there's applications where it's probab going to be autonomous, but

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Speaker 2: the biggest challenge we see through the adoption of it

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Speaker 2: is a social acceptance. I mean, you know, the general

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Speaker 2: public other than through COVID when they were clapping at

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Speaker 2: us when we're delivering bread, milk, a toilet paper. You know,

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Speaker 2: most of the time they don't like us out there

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Speaker 2: on the highway with us for whatever reason. And we

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Speaker 2: just think they're going to have a very difficult time

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Speaker 2: adapting to look it up in a truck and seeing

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Speaker 2: nobody's sitting in that driver's seat. So how what that

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Speaker 2: transformation is all going to look like in time? Who knows,

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Speaker 2: But there's applications for it, and it is it is

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Speaker 2: going to occur, and you know, as demand continues to improve,

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Speaker 2: supply and demand and you know from from production to consumption,

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Speaker 2: and as the as population continues to grow, we know

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Speaker 2: there's gonna be there's gonna be areas where it makes

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Speaker 2: sense and uh, and it's going to be utilized. But

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Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be a driver and they're overseeing

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Speaker 2: it for quite a long time. Because the next question

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Speaker 2: is from an insurance perspective, is it going to be

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Speaker 2: auto liability, a product liability? Who's going to cover it? Right?

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Speaker 2: And I think in shorte companies are still struggling from

390
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Speaker 2: a risk management perspective when they're looking at this equipment

391
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Speaker 2: to figure out, you know, where's the loss going to

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Speaker 2: lie if something goes awroy So, I think there's a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of questions still out there, right, No, absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: think it's it's a long road. I had no pun intended.

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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned insurance. I know insurance costs are

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Speaker 1: rising for your members. What are you guys trying to

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Speaker 1: do to kind of at least maybe slow the growth

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Speaker 1: or you know, reverse the growth of insurance costs.

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Speaker 2: It's a difficult challenge, and one of the things is

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Speaker 2: one of the things is, as I just mentioned, is

401
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Speaker 2: continue to talk about the OEMs to put as much

402
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: as this safety technology is possibly available in this new equipment.

403
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Speaker 2: You know, it may not be perfect, but it's pretty

404
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 2: daggling good. Most of us having automobiles nowadays, and the

405
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: more that we can do to be able to continue

406
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: to protect the integrity of risk management and safety on

407
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Speaker 2: our nation's highways, we think is very, very very important.

408
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Speaker 2: You know, I think one of the challenges in the

409
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Speaker 2: insurance industry that's that's continued to go in today and

410
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 2: it's really needed. You know, we continue to battle what

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Speaker 2: we call lawsuit abuse. You know, it started years ago

412
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Speaker 2: is tot reform and again talking about name changes, but

413
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Speaker 2: we've changed it to lawsuit abuse. But I think these

414
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Speaker 2: challenges have become really significant, and so one of the

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Speaker 2: things that we've we've been on the hill talking about

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Speaker 2: that we'd like to see and are encouraging. There's there's

417
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Speaker 2: a bill over there now that's that's pursuing this is

418
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Speaker 2: but you know, move claims that are that are projected

419
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Speaker 2: to be an excess of five million dollars to federal court,

420
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Speaker 2: get them out of the district court level, and really

421
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Speaker 2: like to see good dad to a million. But you've

422
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Speaker 2: got to start somewhere. So I think it would be

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Speaker 2: very beneficial for our industry to be able to have

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Speaker 2: these cases heard on these five million dollars claims or

425
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Speaker 2: claims in excess of five million dollars projected to be

426
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: in excess to that hurt in federal court. So we

427
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Speaker 2: continue to we continue to run that battle, and you know,

428
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Speaker 2: whether we like it or not, there's still a lot

429
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Speaker 2: of bad actors out there in the general public sometimes

430
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Speaker 2: that you know, are stage in some of these these occurrences.

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Speaker 2: You've seen what's happened in Louisiana and some of these

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Speaker 2: other states. So we just continue to try to follow

433
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 2: up with the d O j FBI on some of

434
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 2: these some of these cases, and I hope we can,

435
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: we can challenge and and overcome some of these rings

436
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 2: and send a message and hey, look if if you

437
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: if you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt. Right.

438
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a legal expert, h nor do

439
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: I play one on TV. But you know you mentioned

440
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: moving into federal court. What would that do for the

441
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: trucking industry.

442
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 2: Well, what what we truly believe is the fact that

443
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: it would it would create a more level playing field

444
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 2: for the for the carrier and in the case and

445
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: and how it's heard, how it's decided much more, much

446
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 2: more than in district courts here today. And uh so

447
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: we'll say, you know, you uh, you move into two

448
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: uh elected judges versus the point of judges and a

449
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: lot of cases and all, and so we think it

450
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 2: would be much of a more level playing field.

451
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: Right. Uh So fraud, you know, I kind of mentioned

452
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: fraud from it's really uh, it's really in the spotlight

453
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: here in the trucking industry. I think there was a

454
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: sixty minutes or a twenty twenty episode with Guy Fury

455
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: and some stolen tequila. So you know, you know, everyone

456
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: kind of talking about it, not just you know, people

457
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: like us that are involved in the industry from a

458
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: day in, day out basis, Can you talk about what's

459
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: going on with fraud and how your members are trying

460
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: to push back against it and protect themselves.

461
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: Well, I would just tell you it's running rampant. It is.

462
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 2: It is getting worse every every week, every month, and

463
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: you know it. And I was really glad to see

464
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: for very guy on there last weekend. I guess talking

465
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: about that a couple of million dollar a loaded tequila

466
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: that they had stolen. Because you really need to make

467
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: people aware of what's going on because it's it's it's terrible.

468
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 2: And you know there's a lot of groups out there

469
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: right now really starting to try to work together in

470
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 2: states from a state level, from a federal level, try

471
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: to identify, you know, as a As you mentioned, I've

472
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: grown up in this industry from a from a leadership perspective,

473
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: and you know, we used to have to worry about

474
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 2: getting a pallet of freight stolen here or there on occasion,

475
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: but it was really pretty rare. I mean, but really

476
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: did I And I've only been retired out of the

477
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 2: industry hading up the association for four years now, but

478
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: rarely did I have to worry about losing my whole truck,

479
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: my whole trailer, and the whole load associated with it.

480
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a this is a really big deal.

481
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: And I mean they can get this They can get

482
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: this load loaded onto a ship and out of this

483
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: country pretty quick. They can get it off loaded here

484
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 2: in the United States. I mean, a lot of high

485
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: value shipments are are are targeted. And you know, we

486
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: continue to hear from from FBI and dj and that

487
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: it's cartel related, and I believe it is. I mean

488
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: it's a it's really it's really significant. I can't quote

489
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: you the number. I just heard the number recently in

490
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: regards to what it's what it's amounting to annually, but

491
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's a it's an not godic crazy number.

492
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just it is, uh, it is. It

493
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: is out of control. So so being able to work

494
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: with the various groups out there, law enforcement and and

495
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: and in the federal government. We just recently had a

496
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: meeting with FMCSA and we spent a lot of time

497
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: talking about it, Homeland security, you know, they're they're involved

498
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: in it. I mean, it's this thing. It's starting to

499
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 2: get the needed attention, but it's because it's grown into

500
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: a really big problem, and unfortunately, you know that ends

501
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: up back on the backs of the consumer. Somebody's gonna

502
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: pay for this, right.

503
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned earlier in the conversation that you know,

504
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: you started your transportation journey in the railroads. You know,

505
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: there's been talk of consolidation of the rail industry, uh,

506
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: with Union Pacific and their proposed merger with Norfolk Southern.

507
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 1: Just wondering you know what the TCA has said, if

508
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: they've said anything about you know, the merger. Do you

509
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: think it's it's good for shippers uh and good for

510
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: the for the country?

511
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: Well, you know, again to your point, having having started

512
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: my career in the transportation industry in railroad and have

513
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: seen as much consolidation as we have over time, this

514
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: doesn't surprise me at the end of the day. You know,

515
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: will it be good or bad? Who knows. I mean,

516
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: only time's gonna tell. But you know, when when you

517
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: look at what they're attempting to do, it appears to

518
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: make a lot of sense. You know, we we as

519
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: an industry years ago when I worked for railroad, kind

520
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: of railroad and the motor carrier industry was really at

521
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: odds and and today we're we're really advocates of each other.

522
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: I mean, we're in this supply chain business, hand and

523
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: glove and and the fact of the matter is is

524
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: that you know, no matter, no matter what happens, still

525
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 2: seventy five per cent of your goods here to the

526
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: US is going to be moved on the truck. You know,

527
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's Uh, there's a there's a real

528
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: relationship opportunity to continue and will continue to grow with

529
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: with rail and trucking. But but whether or not at

530
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: the Norfolk Southern Union Pacific mergers, what that impact is

531
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: going to look like sitting here today, I really can't tell.

532
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: You, gotcha? All right, Well, let's turn our attention to

533
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: truck the trucking market then, from from your perspective kind

534
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: of you know, what is the state of the trucking

535
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: market and you know, kind of what is your outlook

536
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: for uh demanding rates going forward? Because it's really been

537
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: a tough market for the industry.

538
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you said earlier, You're not a you're

539
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: not an attorney, and I'm not an economist. But I've

540
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: been around this business most of my life, and uh,

541
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: and I've lived through the Great Recession, you know, uh,

542
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: nine to eleven, a lot of challenges that impacted the

543
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: the marketplace, and the marketplace is always run some kind

544
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: of cycle for the years that I've been I've been

545
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: around it, but this is probably the most challenging cycle

546
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: that I believe the trucking industry has experienced. And coming

547
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: out of COVID, whether it was two great years, a

548
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: lot of capacity you know, entered the industry. Demand was

549
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: really very good, and and as as demand started to

550
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: either stabilize or even reduce, you know, you still had

551
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: all that capacity. And so as I looked to and

552
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: you know, every year for the last couple of years,

553
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: economists have continued to say, well, it's going to be

554
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: next quarter, well maybe next year, And here we are

555
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: three years plus into it, and it hasn't changed much.

556
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: I mean, you still have you still have an industry

557
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: from a supply and demand perspective that has less demand

558
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: than it has supply, and that's not healthy for anybody.

559
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: And then you you know, you have some of these

560
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: situations that we're talking about with the CDLs. They're talking

561
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: about some cabotage that's that's been taking place out there

562
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: from you know, individuals coming out of the country and

563
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: then moving goods from uh within the country rather than

564
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: go right straight back to where they came from, which

565
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: is what capitage is. And and so there's been there's

566
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: a lot of challenges and I think as as some

567
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: of these continue to get cleaned up, you're going to

568
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: see improvement sometime. But I think the real the real

569
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: improvement is going to be that that the industry is

570
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: going to come from demand, and we just haven't seen

571
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: that significant uptick in demand that's been able to absorb

572
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: the capacity that's out there. I think you're starting to

573
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: see a little more of a balance, I think it.

574
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: You know, you're starting to see some capacity change. What

575
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: do your lot of your finance companies, your banks and

576
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: all didn't bring it, didn't pull equipment back the last

577
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: couple of years because what were they going to do

578
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: with it. They wouldn't they weren't going to be able

579
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: to move it. Now I think it's becoming a really

580
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: challenging time because this equipment's getting some age on it,

581
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: and even if they would take it back, what what

582
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: are they going to do with it? You know, the

583
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: value has dropped significantly. So it's it's really been a really,

584
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: really difficult market and unfortunately, unfortunately for the for the carriers,

585
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: they're really good operators in this business, they haven't been

586
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: able to run inflationary costs you mentioned in Schwortz earlier,

587
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: and in shorts rates have gone up significantly, Equipment costs

588
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: have gone up significantly, Labor costs went up significantly during COVID.

589
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just so they've been facing this headwind

590
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: of costs and unfortunately not being able to recover what

591
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: they need to in a marketplace from a rape perspective.

592
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: I know that's not very encouraging, but that's kind of

593
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: the lay of the land. And you know, I guess

594
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: I would just say this, most of these cycles lead

595
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: you probably know this better than I do, but normally

596
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: run about eighteen months. I mean, like I said, we're

597
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: sitting here looking at about a three year period. So

598
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: the good news is if we come out of this thing,

599
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: you would like to think we're going to have a

600
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: pretty good run at it. For a while. So that's

601
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: the hope.

602
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: Well, let's hope. So, so are there certain sub segments

603
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: of your members that are doing better than others or

604
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: that are I guess doing less worse? I guess better

605
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: is the wrong word. From a demand standpoint.

606
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: You know, I think the all the segments have been challenged.

607
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: If there's one probably doing better than another, I would

608
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: probably have to say it's probably your tanker fleet have

609
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: probably you know, been able to hold around really pretty well.

610
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: Next next in line might be flatbed, but but certainly

611
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: drive in and refrigerated has really has really struggled.

612
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's I don't know, like that's interesting. So

613
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: the refrigerated standpoint, you know, I guess like high level.

614
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: I would think that's more defensive stuff like food and medicine.

615
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: Do you do you know what's driving the weakness and

616
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: the temperature controlled? You know, I really don't.

617
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: We're we're the only trucking association that has any a

618
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: refrigerated or temp controlled division. So we have a we

619
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: have a really strong membership in the temp controlled area.

620
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: We have a lot of a lot of those individuals

621
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: participated in our temperature control division and we just had

622
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: a had our meeting back in July and Colorado Springs,

623
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: and it was a lot of the same as you're

624
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: here with drive An. I mean, it's just it's it's

625
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: just demand, demand and and excess capacity.

626
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: Got yeah, you know, outside of rates, you know, what

627
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: are the biggest challenges facing the trucking industry and your members?

628
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: Well, you know you mentioned Capitol Hill earlier and we

629
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: rarely go over there without talking about truck parking, you know,

630
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: being an issue. You know, when you're in a when

631
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: you're in an industry where you have three point three

632
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: three point four million professional drivers are generations highways every

633
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: day and you have three hundred and thirty thousand truck

634
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: parking spots, one for every eleven and it takes approximate

635
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: an hour to find a parking spot. It's a it's

636
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: a real problem, and especially a safe, well lit parking spot.

637
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: And you know, as we see the as we see

638
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: the the female professional drivers continue to grow in our industry,

639
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: that's becoming even even a greater issue. You know, they

640
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: have to have great they have to have good facilities,

641
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: not that our males don't. They do, they do as well,

642
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: but they've seemed to have adapted over the years. But

643
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: the quality save well lit with amenities of some kind

644
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: and chart porgy I think is really important. And then

645
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: on the flip side of that, you know, the challenge

646
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: is labor. I mean there's still and I know there's

647
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot of conversation about this,

648
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: but you know it's rolled over into the tech world

649
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: and so even finding good quality technicians, a lot of

650
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 2: a lot of carriers that do their own maintenance and

651
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: companies that do maintenance for the carriers. I mean they've

652
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: transitioned to these vocational schools and bringing these individuals in

653
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: and really really train into this next generation of of

654
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 2: of technicians for our industry. So TCA we have we

655
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 2: have a scholarship program. We gave out about one hundred

656
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 2: and sixty five thousand dollars in scholarships this past year,

657
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: and we've just this was the first year that we've

658
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 2: transitioned to not only undergraduate degrees, but also two year

659
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 2: degrees as well to try to get into that vocational area.

660
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: So if you're a if you're a family member of

661
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: one of the TCA member companies, you're so dr daughter

662
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: can submit for some financial assistance to our scholarship program.

663
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: But I think that's going to continue to grow, and

664
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: I think I think workforce challenges are going to continue

665
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 2: to confront our industry, you.

666
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: Know, outside of you know, you know, as you mentioned

667
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: finding more parking spaces and creating more parking spaces for

668
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: the industry and you know, better facilities, whether it's for

669
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: men or women. What can the industry do to make trucking,

670
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 1: you know, driving a truck more appealing for people looking

671
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: to join a trade.

672
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: Well, I do think I still think of the one

673
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: of the great opportunities is to be able to allow

674
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: the industry to bring eighteen year olds into the industry

675
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: sooner and allow us to be able to train them,

676
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: get into the high schools, start working with them, so

677
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, it's not a second career, that it's a

678
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: first career, and it's a very rewarding first career for

679
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: those individuals as long as they, you know, have an

680
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: opportunity to be able to start to understand it and

681
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: participate it at a very young age. And so you know,

682
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: just being able to drive intrast state with the truck

683
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: from eighteen to twenty years of age really needs to

684
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: be looked at it and it really needs to be

685
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: looked at with some good common sense. So I'm not

686
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: saying open up the open up the whole United States

687
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: to eighteen twenty year old twenty one year olds to

688
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: run interstate, but I'm saying, where it makes sense, you know,

689
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: let's do that. So where we were headquartered a DMBU

690
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: and incorporated along the Interstate eighty one, that the twelve

691
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: miles stretch of interstate any one that runs from West

692
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: Virginia to Pennsylvania. So I could run an individual on

693
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: you know, up and down from Hagerstown, Maryland or Westport,

694
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: Maryland to Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. But I couldn't run them up

695
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: north of the Pennsylvania line, and I couldn't run them

696
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: south down to West Virginia to Martinsburg or what have you.

697
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: But I could run them down Interstate seventy to Baltimore

698
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: and run them through the Ton one and run them

699
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: in in this inner city Baltimore all day long. So Lee,

700
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: it just you know, it's one of those things. Again.

701
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 2: Things are adopted and it makes sense at the time,

702
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: but sometimes you need to step back away from and

703
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: start to figure out, Okay, now, what could just look

704
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: like what should it look like, how do we gain

705
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: the efficiencies out of it, how do we make sure

706
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: it we're safe, but introduce these individuals into an industry

707
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: where they're going to be able to have a great livelihood.

708
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: Got ya?

709
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: And you know, is there anything else facing the freight

710
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: transportational justics industry that's on your radar that we might

711
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: have not talked about.

712
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think there's there's a number of

713
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: different challenges out there. These MC numbers is a real

714
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: issue going back to freight theft and load load theft.

715
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: And we had Ken Riddle and with FMCSA here just

716
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: recently providing our members and overview of some of the

717
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: changes that they're making internally to be able to track

718
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: MC numbers. But that's just new entrants. I mean, we

719
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: need that for everybody that's involved that hasn't an MC

720
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: number or dot number to make absolutely sure that you know,

721
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 2: theft isn't taking place, somebody's MC number isn't being stolen

722
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: and freight being moved by somebody else, and then the

723
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: company that's you know, responsible for not getting paid. So

724
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: that's that again continues to be a real, real challenge

725
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: for the industry and a real opportunity. And then one

726
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: of the things that I'm really proud of and happy

727
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: to see from the Trump administry is the fact that

728
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: you know, I think we've we've finally silenced a little

729
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: bit of the independent contractor model. The independent contractor model

730
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: seems to be live and well, and the Trump administration

731
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: seems to support it. Where you know, we were under

732
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: some challenges under the previous administration as we as we

733
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: looked at the independent contractor So we're really happy to

734
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: see that, you know, we're back on good for good

735
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: footing with the Department of Labor, and the independent contractor

736
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: models is still being looked at and understood that that's

737
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: how a lot of these people in this industry got started,

738
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: you know, one person, one truck, and from there they

739
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: grew into a small fleet and then a larger fleet.

740
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: And so protecting the integrity of that independent contractor model

741
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: for the for our industry is really important.

742
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: So, you know, in the beginning of the conversation, you

743
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: mentioned you found trucking through the rail industry. What made

744
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: you get into the rail industry? I guess you know,

745
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: how did you really start your journey within the freight markets?

746
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: Well, unlike most people you talk about. I had absolutely

747
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: no family member that was a railroad. I just happened

748
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 2: to leave a college one day and take a friend

749
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 2: of mine to a career fair and he was looking

750
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: for a job pretty heavily. I wasn't. And I was

751
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: standing up a side of a recruiter for the Western

752
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: Maryland Railroad who started encouraging me and ask me what

753
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna seal with my life after school, and I

754
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: said I'm not sure. He said, well, why don't you

755
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: fill out an application while you're standing here? And he

756
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 2: finally convinced me to do so. And you knows, as

757
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: the story goes, the rest is history. I've told a

758
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: lot of people lee and speaking engagements around the country

759
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: that I've I've had the opportunity to provide over the years.

760
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: But I started out as a little boy playing with

761
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: trains and trucks that I've made a living with him

762
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 2: my whole life. So it's been it's been great.

763
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: Well that's fantastic, you know. And and talking about your career,

764
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: I understand you're you're gonna be retiring from the TCA soon.

765
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: Well, that is correct. We did make an announcement at

766
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: the board meeting in DC here two weeks ago that

767
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: I will be transitioning out of the TCA. I'll be

768
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: seventy in November, just so you know. And when I

769
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: stepped into the role four years ago, I stepped in

770
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: to phill. I was a chairman of TCI literally and

771
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: was retiring from DM Bowman Incorporated. And at that time,

772
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: an individual who was doing a really great job for

773
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: us had fallen really ill and decided that he was

774
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: going to step aside. And so I put a search

775
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: committee together and I was the head of the search committee.

776
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: I said, I felt a little bit like Dick Cheney

777
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: because the first thing, you know, everybody started to call

778
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: him in saying aren't you retired? Why don't you run

779
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: this thing for a while. So I had to recuse

780
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 2: myself from the search committee. But long story short, here

781
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: I am. It's been a wonderful opportunity for me and

782
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: my family. I tell everybody, hey, look, I'm you just

783
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: need to know I'm not saying this. This is this

784
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: may not be the final chapter for Jim Ward, but

785
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: for now it's my last full time final chapter. I

786
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: can assure you that right now. But it has been

787
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: a great experience. We have a great association, continue to

788
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 2: grow our membership, great great associate membership from industry suppliers,

789
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: and so everybody has been very supportive and very generous.

790
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 2: And I would just say that if you listen to

791
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 2: this and you're you're you're a quality individual that's interested

792
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: in the association world. Uh trupload president at gmail dot com,

793
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 2: send me a resume.

794
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: Okay. Uh So, what's the biggest thing you're going to

795
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: miss about your role at the TCAU once retirement takes hold?

796
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: Well, Lee, I think people I've heard people say this

797
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 2: most of my career, and there's a lot of truth

798
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: to it. You know, once you get diesel in your blood,

799
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: I'm not just sure there's any way to extract it.

800
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 2: And so and and through that process of having diesel

801
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: in your blood and and and working in the industry

802
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: and meeting and and be it introduced to a lot

803
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: of people, it's a great it's a great industry made

804
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: up of a of a lot of individuals. So my

805
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: wife and I both we've made a ton of friends,

806
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: learned a lot continue to learn. That's you know, that's

807
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: probably would be that that that could be the biggest

808
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: thing that I miss is I love to learn and

809
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: in this industry, even as as mature as it is,

810
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: continues to evolve. I've told I told our board of

811
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: directors at TCA, you know, I always say, you know,

812
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: some of them want to see you say and some

813
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: of them, even though they haven't said this till we

814
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 2: probably want to see you go. But that being said,

815
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 2: if I was twenty years younger, I'd be standing here

816
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: explain and why you know I should still be the

817
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 2: one individual running this association because looking at it over

818
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: the next twenty years, in the transformation that this industry

819
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 2: is going to go through, I think it's going to

820
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: be pretty amazing and I think we're going to see

821
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: some of the best times we've ever seen it. So

822
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I'm going to miss that.

823
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: Well, the industry is going to miss you too, and

824
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: probably you know, especially your I have advocacy that you've

825
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: done over the years, whether it's as a CEO of

826
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: a trucking company or there at the TCA, So you know,

827
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: that's very commendable. You know, this is something I always

828
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: like to ask my guests towards the end. You know,

829
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: do you have a favorite book about the transportation industry

830
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: or leadership that's kind of close to your heart that

831
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 1: you've read.

832
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it's about to transfer tation industry,

833
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: but and this may surprise you, but I'm a continuous

834
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: improvement guy, and early on in my career I was

835
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 2: tapped by a CEO and sent to a meeting in Orlando,

836
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 2: Florida for four days. And the facilitator of this meeting,

837
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: i'd heard the name, but I really wasn't familiar with him,

838
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: but it was W Verge Demo, and so I spent

839
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: four days in this meeting with a lot of mostly

840
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 2: the people were from NASA, learning about continuous improvement and

841
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: statistical process control, which I had to take twice in college.

842
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: And I do have to tell you it probably had

843
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: the greatest impact on my career of anything that I'd

844
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: ever participated in. And so anytime a new book comes out,

845
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: I just finished reading John Cotter's book on Change. I

846
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: know it came out right right after kind of after COVID,

847
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,959
Speaker 2: but that's what I like, and I like reading about

848
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: businesses and the transformation of businesses and what make businesses ticked.

849
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 2: But I would tell you in that seminar with W

850
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: Verards Deming, was probably life changing. I went on to

851
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: read a lot about Joseph Duran. I had a chance

852
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 2: to meet one of one of Deming's individuals that he

853
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: basically had tutorly tutored, you know, along the way and

854
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: had consulted with General Motors and a number of different companies.

855
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: And so it's been it's been a great experience. And

856
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you that that philosophy and those

857
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: principles of continuous improvement tie into no matter what business

858
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: you're in, whether you're in transportation, financial services. I mean it,

859
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: there's a lot of truth that can be applied from

860
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: learning from individuals like w. Evers and Deming, Joseph Duran

861
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: and some of those individuals that is truly applicable to

862
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: the business world still today.

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00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And before I let you go, does does TCA

864
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: have any like major events and conferences that are holds

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00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: throughout the year.

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00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, we do our annual meeting, which will

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00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: probably be my swan song is February twenty eighth to

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00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: March third. It'll be at the Gaylord in Kissimmi, Florida,

869
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: Kissing Me Florida. So that's our next opportunity. And then

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00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: if you're in Canada. We have a Bridging Barrier Boarding

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00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: Borders meeting we hold every year for our Canadian members

872
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: up in Canada, and that is going to be November.

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00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's Nathan. I go to the

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00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: go to GCA's website. It's truckload dot org and you'll

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00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: be able to see all the events that we have

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00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: coming up. So really appreciate you asking Lee, And if

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00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 2: anybody who's out and takes a look and has any questions,

878
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: why please don't hesitate to reach out to me or

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00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: one of the stampup. We'd be happy to talk to you.

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00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: All right. Thank you so much, Jim for your time

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00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: and insights today. I really appreciate it.

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00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: You as well, Lee anytime. I certainly appreciate all Bloomberg

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00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: does for our industry as well, So thank you very much, and.

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00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for tuning in. If you

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00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. We've

886
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: lined up a number of great guests for the podcast,

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00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: so please check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators,

888
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: and decision maker within the freight markets. Also, you want

889
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: to learn more about freight transportation. Check out our work

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00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Terminal at Bigo and on social media.

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00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 1: This is Lee Clascal siding Off and thanks for talking

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00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: transports with me. Talk to you next week. Bye,