WEBVTT - PRISM Part One 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from how 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:15.280 Stuff Works dot Com. Hey there, and welcome to text Stuff. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:19.800 I'm Jonathan Strickland, and today we are going to start 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.680 a two part series and we may even go further 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.520 into this in the future about PRISM and the n 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.360 s A and intelligence and intelligence gathering and how that 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:36.199 affects everybody, American citizens, people all around the world. And 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:39.960 what is all this this hubub about anyway, right, because 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.600 there's been quite a great deal of hubbub ever since 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.720 a fellow named Edward Snowden uh leaked some information to 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.360 some to some press like The Guardian and the Washington Post. 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.440 Although to be fair, the hubb had really been going 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.120 on for much longer than that, and and and this 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.720 was just kind of one of those big things that 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.000 everyone has gone a minute, yeah, for good reasons. But 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:07.880 snow Din pushed the snowball that became the avalanche. That's 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.160 that's what happened. But you know, today, what we're going 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.240 to talk about in this episode is kind of laying 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:18.240 the groundwork so that our discussion about the PRISM program 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.800 and the related programs makes sense. So in order for 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.000 us to do that, we really wanted to talk more 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:29.360 about kind of the groundwork here, knowing the existing US policy, right, 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.720 knowing that some people, some of our listeners may not 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.039 be familiar with the US policy. Some of our listeners 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.959 live in other countries and are therefore not exposed to 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.280 US law on a regular basis. And more we're brought 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.920 up within the American public school system and weren't exposed 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:48.440 to US law. Right. Sorry, that's a cheap shot vocal bomb, 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.960 but that's kind of a little bit accurate one. But anyway, Yeah, 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.120 it's it's there's there's a lot of stuff that we 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.480 need to be able to talk about, and so we're 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.960 gonna lay down some some basic truths. People come along 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.680 with us. So to begin with, one of the things 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:10.360 that this really concerns is one of the specific amendments 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.799 to the U. S Constitution. This is one from the 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.080 Bill of Rights. Yeah, Bill of Rights are the first 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.120 ten amendments to that Constitution. Now, the Constitution, of course, 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.080 is the document that established that the United States is 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.760 in fact a sovereign nation and it has its own 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.280 laws and its own way of governing the people. And 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.760 the amendments are kind of the the ways of addressing 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:36.600 the Constitution to either expand or focus parts of US 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:41.240 policy so that it has a broad application. And and 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.400 in terms of the Bill of Rights, it's specifically to 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.400 um protect the freedoms of the individual citizens right right. 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.360 So everyone's heard of. The first Amendment is the freedom 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.359 of speech. That's the one that a lot of people 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.240 will quote quite a bit. But the one we are 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.760 specifically concerned with is the fourth Amendment, which and I 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.399 will quote this, this is the actual amendment. The right 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.919 of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.880 and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.799 And no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.440 by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.680 be searched and the persons or things to be seized. 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.920 And now this was created in UM in nine, ratified 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.600 in sevente So the Internet wasn't a thing, no, but 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.840 this was. You know, you can see what the founding 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.440 fathers were thinking at the time that they they had 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:45.040 already experienced what they were calling tyranny under the British monarchy. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.120 Those of us who are anglophiles and monarchists might sting 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.880 a little at that phrase. But at any rate, Uh, no, 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.920 it was pretty accurate. Really. Uh. What this is essentially 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.760 saying is that in order for any one to be 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.320 able to search you or anything you own, whether that's 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.840 property or effects on your person, they have to have 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:10.440 authorization to do so. And further, in order to get authorization, 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.240 they have to have a good reason for it. There 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.680 can't just be a blanket. Yeah, you go out and 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.680 do whatever you need to do to make sure that 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.320 that we get the bad guy. This is to protect 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:27.080 against that, so that people aren't subject to unreasonable searches. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.520 And so that's what a lot of this fuss is 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.559 about is. And when I say fuss, I'm not trying 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.160 to diminish it. I'm just using a word because I 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.560 was brought up in the South and that's that's what happens. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.080 But no, I'm not. I'm not suggesting that this is 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.400 a trivial matter at all. In fact, it's the very opposite. 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:47.320 This is fundamental to the freedoms that are considered to 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.719 be integral in American citizen Yeah. Yeah, and I would 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.520 say that that that modern ly internationally speaking, it's it's 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.920 a human rights, no, sure, Yeah, these are rights that 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.880 that organizations like the United Nations have said this is 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.080 this is a universal right. This is not something that 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.839 is is a peculiar to a particular government. This should 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.960 be something that everyone should expect. And in fact, that's 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.440 another good point just out of the gate, is to 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:18.200 say the Constitution is protecting American citizens rights, it does 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.600 not protect people who are not American citizens, right. So 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.159 in other words, uh, and that's that plays a huge 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.720 part in in the both PRISM and the related programs 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.719 that the n s A and other intelligence organizations are following. 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.599 So that's what the key of all of this is 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:42.640 about this this constitutional amendment. Uh. And we'll get into 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.040 detail in the second podcast about kind of what is 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.760 going on and why people are concerned and the arguments 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.560 on both sides, because both sides have presented their own 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.159 arguments on this. Now, another thing we need to kind 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:01.920 of define are the different agencies within the United States 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:07.400 that are tasked with maintaining law and order, investigating crime, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:13.960 and also gathering intelligence or or acting in counter intelligence roles. Right, 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.440 Because although we will be talking mostly about the n Essay, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.120 which is the program that's responsible for PRISM, there are 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:26.000 actually seventeen governmental bodies that have to do with intelligence gathering. Yeah, 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.400 this is it's it's complicated stuff. So we're gonna actually 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.120 give you a lowdown on all seventeen offices and agencies 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.839 because it's good to know what these different organizations are. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.679 And it can be really confusing, right, I Mean, there's 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.560 always that time where I get to something. It's like 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.479 a central intelligence agency does that? Is that domestic or 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.799 is it foreign? Is it which one is? Federal Federal 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.640 Bureau of Investigation. That's certainly domestic, But what do you know? 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.240 And then you start you start going down this this 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.640 rabbit hole of all these different agencies. It really shows 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.800 how complex and gargantuan and bureaucratic our government this to 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.800 the point where you're thinking, there's there's probably some streamlining 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.840 that could happen at some point um. And also keep 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.000 in mind that not all of these agencies and offices 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.440 have traditionally work together. Some of them are have been 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.680 at odds, very much so at the CIA and the 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.240 n s A in in particular have not always seen 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.560 ida I will partially because their their duties come very 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.720 close to overlapping in some cases. And I think the 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.960 CIA is tired of the n s A reading their emails. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.360 That's really what it comes down to. That's a joke. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.080 It's kind of not too but anyway, Yeah, the CIA 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.800 and n s A have actually competed. There's a in 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:37.520 fact that there's a little aside. We can give a 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.120 little bit later, but let's talk about these basic definitions. 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.880 So we've got law enforcement, all right, law enforcement, that's 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.000 pretty much what it sounds like. These are the agents 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:52.680 who are designated to protect citizens, to enforce laws, to 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.640 apprehend people who are violating laws. So this is essentially 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:01.000 your police, so of various levels, whether it's in the 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.360 United States, we have lots of different kinds of police. 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:09.200 There's a federal, state, county, municipal. Yeah, there's there's lots 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:10.960 of different police. You know, because you can you can 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.480 violate federal law, you can violate state law. I mean 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.480 you can't. Don't go do that. I'm just saying that 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.600 there are different agencies that are in charge of No 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.320 you may not. Well, I mean it's bad. We do 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.640 not condone that goes without saying, we're just we're both loopy. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.960 Has been a very long day of lots of research. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.400 You would be amazed at how much research we have 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.000 in front of us right now, But so so who 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.400 who Who oversees all of these? So the Department of 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.880 Justice oversees law enforcement, and this involves agencies beyond just 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.559 the police. We're talking about the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.480 the Drug Enforcement Agency or d e A UH, the 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.280 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives also known as 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.880 a t F because they didn't have explosives in their 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.439 name for a long time, and the U. S. Marshals Service. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.160 All of those fall under the Department of Justice and 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.800 its law enforcement. UH. Then you have investigation, which is 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.560 actually part of law enforcement. It's not like it's completely separate, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.200 but investing. You know, law enforcement can be about enforcing 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.120 laws and apprehending people who are violating the law. Investigators 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.839 they are the ones who actually investigate crime to determine 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.240 who committed the crime and and and how to apprehend 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.680 that person. Sometimes detectives, right right, You can have investigators 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.720 or detectives. These are the type of names that you 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.240 tend to hear with investigators, and that can be with 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.240 agencies like the police, with the FBI. We also in 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.960 the United States have private investigators who can get a 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:44.000 private license to be uh to to investigate certain things. Um, 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.600 so that's that's another level. Then you've got intelligence. Now 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.000 this is different from law enforcement. It's different from an investigation. Uh. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:57.080 It involves some investigative work, but it's not an investigation role. 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.960 So intelligence is all about gathering data, getting as much 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:06.079 information as possible. Generally speaking, it tends to be focused 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.880 on foreign entities. So foreign intelligence would be uh, information 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:16.400 about other nations, governments, their activities there, their motivations, what 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.800 you know, what they are doing, and the activities of 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.600 their agents, both within those foreign nations and abroad. So 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.959 this is the James Bond stuff, right, this is spy stuff. 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:34.440 And then uh, you've got two broad versions of intelligence. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.959 You have human intelligence. That's specifically the James Bond type stuff, 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.840 because this is what you get when you have interpersonal contact, 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.600 when you have a spy meeting a double agent and 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.360 they're exchanging information so that the spy can bring the 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.679 information back home or uh it's a spy who has 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:56.640 infiltrated an agency or a government office or whatever to 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.760 gather information. That's human intelligence. That's the CEE I a's 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.000 job that they oversee human intelligence in the United States 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.880 for foreign intelligence, so CEE I A focused on the 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.840 foreign um intelligence, by the way, can also be domestic. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:15.200 There's domestic intelligence where you've got especially with things like 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.400 homeland security. You have within the United States lots of 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.120 domestic intelligence UH officials as well, but we're mainly looking 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.760 at foreign in these podcasts. The other broad type of 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.440 intelligence you have your human intelligence. The other broad type 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:34.520 is signal intelligence. Now this is messages communication, right, so 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.000 this is the realm of anything digital or phones or yeah, 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.360 this is this is what the n s A looks at, right, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.640 this is this is their department. So the signals Intelligence, 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.680 by the way, sometimes abbreviated I'm signed yeah yeah, which 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:50.400 I just love and n s A by the way, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.400 in case we were using the acronymics National Security Agency M. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:55.960 I don't think we said that at the top, No, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.680 but that's their actual full name, and they are in 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:04.800 charge are of intercepting and decrypting messages between entities, normally 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:09.400 foreign entities or foreign like a foreign government and its agents. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.320 Agents can be located within the United States, which gives 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.600 rise to Yeah, that's that's one of the big reasons 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:22.960 why this whole mess has become you know, it's become 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:27.600 such a powder kig really because the potential for agents 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.640 to be in the United States means that the n 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.000 s A has to look at the broadest approach to 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.600 trying to gather information, but that then creeps in on 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.160 the individual liberties and the expectation of privacy that American 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:45.320 citizens have. That's the crux of this. So the signal 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.080 intelligence is really what we're looking at, though the human 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.480 intelligence is awesomely cool. And we have to do a 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.840 podcast about spy stuff at some point. Absolutely we haven't. 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.320 You know, we never did. Chris never did, you know. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.400 I tried to convince Chris to do it, but then 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.240 he would just sort of glance around and say red 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.960 roses and then just run away. And I have no 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.680 idea what that means to this day. Um. He told 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.880 me that I was supposed to use my Captain decoder 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.600 encryption ring. I don't have one of those. Chris is 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.360 a little messed up. I love you, Mr Polettic wherever 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:22.360 you are. Um. Anyway, then there's counter intelligence. So counter 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.480 intelligence does not mean that you sit around, you know, 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:32.679 watching reality TV and about counterintelligence is about preventing other 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:38.600 entities from gaining information about your country, government, agency, whatever. Right. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.560 This can also be called information assurance, Yes, that's the 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.640 other term for it. So really this is all about 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:48.120 protecting the information structures within whatever, whether it's a country 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.520 or whatever it's it's encrypting communications, you know, doing the 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.440 opposite of essentially intelligence. This is this is where you 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.920 end up hiring what are called white hat hackers who 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:00.920 try to break into a systems so that way you 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.079 can identify any vulnerabilities that your system has and address 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.680 it before real bad guys are able to get into 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:12.319 your systems. Um. So those are your basic terms. Now 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.520 we've defined that, which leads us to the intelligence community 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.080 of the United States. And I don't mean to suggest 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.160 that the intelligence community is a big old band of 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.640 happy spies who just sit around and chat spy stuff 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.440 all the time, because, uh, like we said, they can 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.960 sometimes be a little competitive. Now, there's quite a few 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.480 of them, and we're gonna go through and mention them. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.000 I will go ahead, and I'm gonna lump in four 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.200 of them together, actually I think five of them together. 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:48.760 The military branches of intelligence, so Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Marines, 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:53.400 and Navy all have their own offices of intelligence. Uh, 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.960 and they're all similar enough where I feel like I 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.560 can lump them in together in the sense that yeah, 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.360 because that way it cuts down the other like five down, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.760 twelve to go um. But they essentially all concentrate on 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.960 gathering intelligence to support wartime efforts. So specifically, when the 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:17.240 United States is in some form of actual combat type 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.360 of situation, there's some sort of conflict, even if it 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.600 hasn't broken out into all out war, these offices are 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.320 gathering the information that gives the United States the best 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:34.040 chance to counteract anything that the various other parties could 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.800 be doing. But they also coordinate with other intelligence agencies 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.920 whenever they gather intelligence that could be key to national security. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.640 It's just not their main focus. Their main focus is 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.920 to support whatever branch of the military they happen to 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.320 be part of. So, but each one does have its 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.720 own intelligence agency. Then you've got the Central Intelligence Agency, 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.560 which we've already kind of alluded to. It gathers information 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.120 about foreign governments, corporations, and individuals in an effort to 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.040 provide intelligence that affects national security interests, and they report 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:11.440 directly to the the The CIA has its own structure, 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.840 but the CIA reports to the Director of National Intelligence, 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.040 which replaced and the CIA replaced the Office of Strategic Services. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.520 Are the OSS back in? Here's a bit of trivia. 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.840 Do you know what pop culture character started in the 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.520 early eighties had a stint in the O s S. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.280 But you only get to hear about it in a 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.560 little bit of a side dialogue and the most recent 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.880 version of his movies. He wears a fedora and carries 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:44.320 a whip. Indiana Indiana Jones was part of well, he 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.760 at least worked with the OSS. According to India Jones 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.920 and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, he has this one 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.840 little aside where he mentions the OSS. And as soon 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.800 as I heard that, I thought, this is the movie 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.040 I want to see, not the one that I'm currently watching. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.400 That I would. I would, if anyone out there is listening, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:07.560 I would watch that movie too. An audience of two, Yes, yeah, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.439 I mean, you know, I've done more for less, all right, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.680 So then we've got skipping over the other military ones. 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.760 We've got the Defense Intelligence Agency, which is a central 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.359 producer and manager of foreign military intelligence. It's part of 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.560 the Department of Defense. There's actually quite a few civilian 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.800 employees who work for the Defense Intelligence Agency. They're not 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.560 all military employees, and it includes a clandestine service that 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.840 conducts spy activities. So, in other words, a lot of 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.280 our spies report to the Defense Intelligence Agency UM. It 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:40.680 was established back in nineteen sixty one, and the director 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.840 of the d i A answers to the Director of 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.240 National Intelligence just like the CIA does, and also advises 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.560 the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.760 Chiefs of Staff, so important person in the role of 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.880 the United States government. Like I said, the one thing, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.800 if you don't take anything else away from this podcast, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.840 you will take away the fact that our government in 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:07.600 the United States is enormous and complicated. And then we've 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.840 got the Department of Energy, which has its own Office 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.879 of Intelligence and counter Intelligence, which might surprise you to 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.239 hear that the Department of Energy has one. But then 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.239 when you think how important energy is, yeah, yeah, it's 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.120 it's a huge part of our infrastructure. So yeah, so 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.119 you know, you remember hearing the news a couple of 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.960 years ago about how hackers had discovered not just hackers, 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.120 but people working in cybersecurity had discovered that uh, hackers 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.119 in in foreign countries had accessed certain parts of our 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:43.240 power grid and placed essentially little uh surveillance, Yeah, just 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.679 to keep an eye on what was going on with 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.119 the potential maybe down the road at some point to 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.120 commit sabotage. Although there was no evidence of sabotage being 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.840 committed at that time, the potential there was a big 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.240 you know that that that raised some huge alarms. Yeah, 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.320 and we have we have a whole um what one 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.359 or two part series on them on cybersecurity from a 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.399 few months back, if you care to go listen to that, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.440 right exactly. And so the Department of Energy has its 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.360 own Office of Intelligence and counter Intelligence. They provide information 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.679 to the Secretary of Energy, and the expertise for this 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.360 office includes nuclear energy, radioactive waste, energy security. So these 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.320 are the people that you go to when you want 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.200 to be able to gather information about uh, not just 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.080 not just domestic but foreign activities as well that could 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:34.879 involve specifically things like nuclear power or even nuclear weapon capability. Uh. 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.560 The counterintelligence efforts are led by the Department's National Nuclear 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.840 Security Administration or in an essay. Then we've got the 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:47.040 Department of Homeland Security. This is a relatively young department 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.399 really was formed in response to the terrorist attacks on 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.480 September eleven, two thousand one, and it's responsible for the 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.600 protection of the US and its territories from terrorist attacks 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.240 as well as to respond to other events like natural disasters. 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.520 So it's it's supposed to be all about, you know, 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.119 it's in the name Homeland Security. It's the supposed to 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.120 be protecting the United States citizens. That particular department has 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.879 been the recipient of lots of criticism from various people 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:23.680 who think that the legislation that created that department may 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.640 have overstepped some constitutional bounds, and that's still a matter 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.360 of debate in the United States. A lot of these 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.040 policies that were formed very quickly after nine eleven um 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.880 are going to come back in the conversation because because 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.800 they were a bunch of them, and they were big, yeah, yes, 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:46.280 and rapid change was sometimes uh, sometimes led to concerns 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:51.360 after the fact, like everyone was so concerned about responding 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.760 to a particular horrible event in the United States history 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.639 that some would argue that that mistakes were made in 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.320 that process. Others would argue that it was exactly what 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.040 was needed. So I don't mean to say that, you know, 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.320 it's a one sided debate. It really isn't. There's a 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.879 lot of absolutely cogent points being made on both sides. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.159 Then you have the Department of State and they have 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:19.240 the Bureau of Intelligence and Research. Their primary responsibility is 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:23.399 to analyze intelligence data. So this was originally part of 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.359 the os S, so it was part of what is 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.240 now the CIA, but it's its own separate department at 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.400 this point. So they are all about, you know, if 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.919 you they don't necessarily gather intelligence, but they analyze it. 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.160 So it's one of the departments that really focuses on 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.960 what does this intelligence actually mean. Then you have the 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.920 Department of the Treasury. They have an Office of Terrorism 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.360 and Financial Intelligence that's meant to guard the US financial 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.040 system against threats from rogue nations, terrorists, money launderers, and 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.680 et cetera. Then you've got the Drug Enforcement Administration, which, 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.719 as I mentioned before, was part of the Department of 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.919 Justice that was established in nineteen seventy and it's a 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.240 federal law enforcement agency and its main purposes to combat 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.840 drug smuggling and uh and within the United States. It 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.360 also has a responsibility for controlling and pursuing US drug investigations. 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.480 In foreign countries, which is tricky business. Anytime you have 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:21.080 a country performing an investigation in another country, you know, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:25.679 you've got that's sticky, absolutely, especially with with you know, 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.080 something as sticky as drug laws, which are so different 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:33.160 in so many places, so so economically driven. Yes, yes, economically, 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.359 that's plays a huge role in it. Politically, it gets 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.560 really sticky. It's a tough situation. Then you've got your 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.840 Federal Bureau of Investigation the FBI. It's also part of 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.560 the Department of Justice. That's meant to be a federal 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:51.280 criminal investigative body and also an internal intelligence agency, and 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.719 that was established back in nine eight. Of course, uh 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.320 I would say that the most famous director of the 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:02.480 FBI would be j Edgar Hoover, known for, according to 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.040 the movie Clue, known for a cleaning up multiple murders 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.879 because his name is Hoover. But dump Bump. I just 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.120 saw a Clue like a couple of weeks ago. So again, 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.480 it wasn't my first time. I've seen it many times. 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.359 I'm glad that you're pulling in puns from other storiess. 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.520 Now that's really I can't be the sole source of puns. 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:25.120 I'm only one man. Then, We've got the National Geospatial 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.160 Intelligence Agency, which I'm gonna be honest, I had never 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:30.520 heard of until I did the research for this podcast. 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.520 I did not know this agency existed. Um, but they're 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.159 also known as the ng A, and they're part of 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.800 the Department of Defense, and they're an agency that plays 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:42.480 a role in combat support, so it's kind of similar 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.520 to the military roles. They're primarily tasked with gathering and 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:50.840 analyzing geospatial intelligence to protect national security, and they were 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:55.160 formerly known as the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. Then 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:58.760 you've got the National Reconnaissance Office, which is a spy 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:02.439 organization and they create spy satellites and provide imagery and 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:05.679 signal intelligence to various agencies and military offices in the 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.119 United States. So this is the agency that's gathering lots 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:12.879 of data from electronic communications, but then they end up 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:17.119 funneling that data to other agencies. They're not necessarily um 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:21.520 analyzing the information themselves. Uh. And again they report to 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.280 the Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of Defense. 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.920 Then we've got our our our darling are our buddies, 0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.120 the ones that will be talking about quite a bit. 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:33.840 We finally got to them and The only reason it's 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:36.040 taken so long is because I've been going in alphabetical order. 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:41.600 The National Security Agency the n S a centralized agency 0:24:41.600 --> 0:24:45.280 that produces and manages signals intelligence for the United States, 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.639 gathers foreign intelligence through various means, including spying. Also in 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:54.680 charge of communication security. They are experts in cryptanalysis and cryptography, 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.919 meaning that codes and crypto, cryptograms, anything that has to 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:01.320 do with encoding information. They are experts at both doing 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:04.360 that to protect our information the United States is information 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:06.720 and also undoing that, yes, also on doing that to 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.159 figure out what the heck people are talking about. And 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:13.000 they're experts, in fact, such experts that there's a famous 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:18.159 there's a famous statue outside that has four sides, and 0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:23.080 each side is encrypted in a different a different way, right, 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:27.040 So each cryptogram is is different, and each one, like 0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:29.639 if you were to number the sides one through four, 0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.560 one would be the quote unquote easiest to decrypt and 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:36.560 four would be the most difficult. Uh. And there was 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.520 sort of a challenge that was thrown down to both 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:44.440 the CIA and an essay to decrypt these sides, and 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:48.680 the CIA decrypted the first three sides within a set 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:50.480 number of years. I can't remember exactly what it is. 0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:52.480 I'm this is anecdotal. I didn't write them down in 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:54.840 my notes. So yeah, I think this was put up 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:59.040 in the nineteen fifties or maybe the sixty which is 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:04.879 I'm like, so there was sometimes well that this was 0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:07.240 this is just sort of an aside to everything else, 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:08.680 which is why we don't have all the data in 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:10.879 front of us. Uh, this would be its own kind 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:14.600 of fun podcast. But at any rate, the CIA went 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.280 to try and crack this. They really were taking this 0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:19.439 to heart and saying this, we want to be the 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:21.760 ones to crack this information. And they started working on 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.600 and they were so proud when they announced it. And 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:27.520 then fairly recently it came to light that the n 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:30.280 s A had already done it about eight years before 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:33.679 the CIA did, just didn't bother telling them, And you 0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:36.479 know that was apparently they the n s A director 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:38.720 Ted told people like, if you want to do this, 0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:42.200 you should do it, and totally everybody else, but we're 0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:43.760 not doing it. But if you want to do it, 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:45.679 you should totally go and do it. But you know, 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:48.760 officially we are not doing this, but go and do 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.080 that thing. So and that's what they did. So it 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:55.480 looks like they are really good at decrypting stuff, which 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.320 that should give anyone pause. I mean, there are a 0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:01.320 lot of people who advocate that even just as a 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:04.719 personal choice, day to day kind of activity, that you 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:08.200 encrypt everything. Like you know, there are people who will 0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:10.439 not communicate with you if you do not use an 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:15.399 emails service that allows you to encrypt your messages. UM. 0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:20.800 But their decryption abilities show that they're really really good 0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:23.560 at breaking those codes. It might take some time, but 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.280 they they have shown that they are capable of doing 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:28.760 such things absolutely. Now that they are officially a part 0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:31.359 of the Department of Defense, yep. Yeah, they report to 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.399 the Director of National Intelligence as well. Uh. They formed 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:37.800 back in nineteen fifty one. They were originally a replacement 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:42.000 for the Armed Forces Security Agency or FSA. Right. They 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:44.639 were created specifically by the order of US President at 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:47.320 the time, Harry S. Truman UM and and began as 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:51.200 a group of only UM seven thousand, six hundred military 0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:57.720 and civilian workers. Are there now, like, that's pretty big growth. 0:27:57.840 --> 0:27:59.680 They've they've been grown a lot actually in the past 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:02.879 couple of years. Also, trivia question, was the S stand 0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:09.320 for and Harry S. Truman nothing it's just sent Harry S. Truman. 0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:16.080 The S stands for nothing, but Truman stood for a lot. Uh. 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:18.600 I have tiny little bits of historical trivia that I 0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:20.679 never get to use because they never invite me on 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:22.639 stuff you missed in history class, So I have to 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:25.679 save it all up for episodes like this. UM. And 0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:28.480 then we finally get to the Office of the Director 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:33.479 of National Intelligence. Yeah, the the n s A is 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:35.320 the important one that we'll be talking about for the 0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:39.080 most part when we get into the actual particulars for PRISM. 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:42.920 But this is the office that we often will say, 0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:46.280 there are sixteen agencies in the intelligence community, and this 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:49.840 is the seventeenth office. This is kind of the the head. 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:53.960 This is where everything funnels up. So the idea here 0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:57.200 is that it oversees many other intelligence agents and offices, 0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:00.880 including the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, and its 0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:05.520 mission is to exploit and defeat adversarial intelligence activities directed 0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:08.960 against American interests, Protect the integrity of the U S 0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:13.360 intelligence system, Provide incisive, actionable intelligence to the decision makers 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:18.960 at all levels, Protect vital national assets from adversarial intelligence activities. 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:24.880 Neutralize and exploit adversarial intelligence activities targeting the armed forces, 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.360 and the Director of National Intelligence reports to the President 0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:31.800 of the United States. So this is the head of 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.840 the intelligence community. Keeping in mind that every single one 0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:37.880 of these agencies we have mentioned has its own hierarchy, 0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:43.360 has its own leadership, and they all have different requirements 0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:45.640 for what that leader can be. In fact, the n 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:47.320 s A is is kind of cool, but we'll talk 0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:52.280 about that probably in the second podcast. So there we've 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:56.000 laid it down, the Constitution, the different types of law 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.560 enforcement and intelligence, the various members of the intelligence community. 0:30:00.520 --> 0:30:03.240 But we still have some more groundwork. From from here 0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:05.800 in it gets sticky. Yeah, this is where this is 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:09.160 where we've That was the easy part, y'all. But before 0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:12.560 we dive into the really tricky part, let's take a 0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:15.840 quick break to thank our sponsored Jack Threads. Jack Threads 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:19.239 has quickly become the online shopping destination for guys. And 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:22.200 here's why. They have awesome apparel, they have accessories, and 0:30:22.200 --> 0:30:25.480 they have gadgets from brands like Converse, Penguin, and Busted Teas, 0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:28.640 and they're all up to eight off. That's right, everything 0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:30.880 on the site is up to eight percent off. As 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:33.280 a listener of tech stuff, you can skip the membership 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:37.040 waitlist and get instant access at www dot jack threads 0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:41.640 dot com slash tech stuff when you sign up today. Alright, 0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:44.280 so we're back. We've laid out that that groundwork. Let's 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:47.440 talk specifically about the n s A for a little 0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:51.720 bit because that's really what most of this this stuff involves. Right. 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.680 Um okay, So, so, like we said, as of today, 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:58.000 they have about thirty thousand employees. They're working out of Maryland, 0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:02.280 um Fort Mead, Maryland specific and the NSA actually works 0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:06.480 alongside an organization called the Central Security Service, which is 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:09.960 it's basically the n s A, but it's comprised of 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:13.600 active military members. Now, the director of both of these 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:18.000 organizations is appointed by the Secretary of Defense and approved 0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:21.120 by the President, and he must be a or here 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:23.640 she I'm sorry, that was terrible. I'm a bad feminist. Um. 0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:26.240 There must be a commissioned military officer with at least 0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:28.520 a three star rank, right, So, now that that could 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.080 be of any of the branches of the military, doesn't 0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:33.400 I always think three star general, but you could also 0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:37.000 have an admiral or of course etcetera. Right this, uh, 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:41.160 this leader also heads what's called the US Cyber Command UM, 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.640 which was created in two thousand five and is a 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:49.240 network warfare unit that protects against terrorist data and network threats. Yeah. 0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:52.960 So in our cybersecurity podcast where we were talking about 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:57.840 some of the reactions to cyber threats in the United States, 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:01.800 that's really the organization that is adding that for in 0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:06.360 large part. There. Keep in mind they're also multiple organizations 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:10.720 within other agencies that also investigate and tried to prevent cybercrime. 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:12.920 But this is one of the big ones right here, 0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:16.800 right especially or I mean you know, yes, kind of 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.040 kind of during all of that panic that happened a 0:32:19.040 --> 0:32:21.800 few years back, this this one sort of floated to 0:32:21.800 --> 0:32:24.440 the top. UM So, so the n s A and 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:29.160 the CSS, like we said earlier, work in UM information 0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:33.960 assurance or counter intelligence, and also in signals intelligence or 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:42.520 signat so intercepting signet ring I don't know, I don't 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:45.800 know signals intelligence at the n s A. And they 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:48.120 just kind of looked at me and then they just 0:32:48.160 --> 0:32:52.080 slowly shook their head and tapped your phone. Um, well, 0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:55.760 they I have no illusions they're already doing that. If 0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:58.200 I wasn't on a list before we started this podcast, 0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:02.360 I sure am on one now. Anyway intercepting the messages 0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:06.000 and decrypting them. You know. That's that's easy to say. Uh, 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:08.160 when it gets down to how they actually do that, 0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:11.320 it gets a little more tricky because you're wondering, all right, well, 0:33:11.920 --> 0:33:13.640 when I'm sending a message, if I were to send 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.760 a message from myself to Lauren, then the way that 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:19.600 would work, assuming that we were not on the same 0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:22.360 email server, that was kind of a bad example. Let's 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:24.080 say I'm sending a message to Chris who was not 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:27.200 on our email server, and I was just saying, hey, 0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:30.160 what up, and what's would that red Roses comment you 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.719 used to make and then walk away. The way this 0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:35.280 works is my message would get broken up into packets, 0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:37.720 and each packet has a little bit of information in 0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:42.400 the header and footer that tell essentially computers one where 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:44.640 that information is supposed to go and to how it 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.520 fits together with the other packets, so that when all 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:49.640 the packets get to their destination, they get put back 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:52.240 together and then Chris can read the email or get 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:53.880 the file or whatever it is that I'm trying to 0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:57.280 send to him. So, Uh, the interesting thing about the 0:33:57.280 --> 0:33:59.680 Internet is it's designed in such a way so that 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.440 this pathway can be. You know, there are multiple routes 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:06.680 that this information could take, and that's a good thing 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.200 because if one of the routes ends up being compromised, 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:11.880 if something happens like a server goes down, then this 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.680 information can go a different route to get to Chris. 0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:17.759 And each packet can even take different routes so that 0:34:17.800 --> 0:34:20.280 they're not all going in a line down one roadway. 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:21.960 They've kind of split up and they're all trying to 0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:24.359 get to the same destination. So that kind of leads 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:26.080 to the question how does the n s A do this? 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.560 And that In fact, we'll we'll go into more about 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:30.759 that in the second podcast. But that's another one of 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:33.000 those things that has people scratching their heads, like not 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:36.160 just that you're intercepting and decrypting messages, but how are 0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:40.680 you actually doing this without getting help from entities like 0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:45.759 internet service providers. More on that later, because it turns 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.719 out they are spoiler alert, they are getting help from 0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:52.960 Internet service providers. Um. Not that there's necessarily anything the 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.680 Internet service providers can do about it, but but but 0:34:56.800 --> 0:34:59.239 lots of that probably in the second podcast that we 0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:01.279 are going to do. Um. But but let's let's talk 0:35:01.280 --> 0:35:05.200 a little bit about the different legislation that has come 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:09.440 out that regulates and defines what they can and can't do. Sure, 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:11.640 So one of the earliest things we want to talk 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:16.239 about is the Wire Tap Act of nineteen sixty eight. Now, 0:35:16.280 --> 0:35:20.120 this regulates the collection of actual content of wire and 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:24.080 electronic communications. And it was first passed as Title three 0:35:24.600 --> 0:35:28.239 of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:31.160 nineteen sixty eight, So we generally refer to it as 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:33.399 Title three, although a lot of people will just refer 0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:37.160 to as Act. And originally it only covered wire and 0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:40.760 oral communications. In other words, if you were sending something 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:43.920 via some sort of like if you're using like a 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.640 telegraph or if you're using a telephone, that's what it 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:50.520 was covering. But Title one of the Electronic Communication Privacy 0:35:50.560 --> 0:35:54.799 Act of nineteen eight six extended this protection to electronic 0:35:54.840 --> 0:35:58.880 communications in general, so it went beyond just verbal communication 0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:02.279 over the phone to everything from email, instant messaging. All 0:36:02.320 --> 0:36:06.480 of that was covered under this Act. Now, what this 0:36:06.520 --> 0:36:10.120 Act would do was it it created some broad prohibitions 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:15.200 against international interception, use, or disclosure of wire and electronic 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:19.640 communications without a statutory exception. So you were supposed to 0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:22.120 if you wanted to get access to something, if if 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:26.120 you had identified a target as being either if if 0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:29.200 you're intelligence and you're identifying the target as being of 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:33.160 interest because they are, for some dangerous reason right there, 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:35.200 an agent of a foreign government and you need to 0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:39.359 get information, or if you've identified them as someone who 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:42.440 has committed a crime, then you needed to receive a 0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:45.160 court order from the Department of Justice. It had to 0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:47.720 be signed by a US district court or a Court 0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:51.160 of Appeals judge, and that would authorize wire tapping for 0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:55.520 that specific target for up to thirty days. Agents had 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:58.600 to meet some pretty tough requirements in order to get 0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:01.440 this authorization. It was and just go up to a 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:03.759 judge and say, hey, can you sign this for me? 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:05.759 I know you're busy, Just write it down here and 0:37:05.920 --> 0:37:08.840 I'll get out of your hair. They had to actually 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:15.320 show probable cause, meaning that it means different things. Within crime, 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:20.000 probable cause means that you have a valid reason why 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:23.840 you suspect that person to be involved in committing a crime, 0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:28.959 and intelligence it's that you have a reasonable suspicion that 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.719 that person is an agent of a foreign government. So 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.960 it's two separate things. The foreign agent part doesn't have 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.319 to be involved in any crime whatsoever when it comes 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.200 to intelligence gathering and wire tap if they are merely 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.200 an agent. Yeah. And in fact, that old that will 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:44.919 come into play more when we get into a little 0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:46.560 bit later on one of the other acts, in fact, 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:48.719 the next act. But um, I want to make sure 0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:50.000 do you have anything else you want to say about 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:52.239 the wire tap before I jump on? Well, um, you 0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:55.320 know this, this was enacted in by the early seventies, 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:59.120 n s A was tapping um, foreign cables under the oceans. 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:01.480 As as you may or may not know, there is 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.839 a lot of information that is zipping right along in 0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:08.520 in in cables that are going across the Atlantic. And 0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:12.960 it turns out most of those messages say things like darling, 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:17.359 it's better downwards weather under the sea, or are these 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:20.480 days are just just videos of people's cats? But um, 0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:25.120 But but also it can contain very sensitive international information 0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:29.240 to um, that's another thing that can contain. And so before, 0:38:29.320 --> 0:38:31.919 by the way, before the Wiretap Act was passed, there 0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:35.600 weren't that many prohibitions about tapping phones or anything else 0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:38.320 at all. I mean, it all depended upon the particular 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:42.600 era and the particular area. So I think that part 0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:44.319 of this was in I think that part of the 0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:46.800 Act was in fact in response to folks like Hoover 0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:50.759 who were perhaps overstepping their bounds in terms of of 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:55.560 surveillance and gathering. Yeah, the FBI had become infamous for 0:38:55.760 --> 0:39:01.359 gathering huge files on citizens and maintaining them, and uh, 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:03.279 you know, then you had things like the House of 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:07.520 American Activities. Uh that all kinds of creepy post war stuff. Yeah, 0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:09.400 there's a lot of stuff that was going on that 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:13.400 was it was definitely creeping up on people's freedoms, and 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:15.680 in some cases more than creeping up, but just denying 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.440 people their freedoms. So these kind of acts were a 0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:21.080 response to that to try and correct some wrongs and 0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:24.480 to prevent it from happening again. So so in nineteen 0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:27.440 seventy eight, another big one that that is going to 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:30.440 be coming back, especially amendments to it, the Foreign Intelligence 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:34.520 Surveillance Act or UM Yeah FISA, nineteen seventy eight, that 0:39:34.640 --> 0:39:38.080 was introduced by Ted Kennedy and it was signed into 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:43.480 law by Jimmy Carter. Yeah. So, uh, both of them Democrats, 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:46.440 both of them known as being liberal, which might surprise 0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.200 people when they're sitting there thinking about FISA and they've 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.920 heard these other amendments to FISA, and how how the 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:55.840 n s A is using that to um to gather 0:39:55.920 --> 0:39:59.640 all this information that has come to light. Uh. But 0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:02.240 you know, you could also argue that when this Act 0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:06.680 was introduced that was not the intent necessarily. However, it 0:40:06.719 --> 0:40:09.759 did establish the procedures or surveillance in an effort to 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:13.040 collect foreign intelligence between foreign powers and their agents. Right. 0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:16.040 It was hypothetically designed to ensure that the that the 0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:19.320 n s A and other federal intelligence agencies couldn't monitor 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:23.960 American citizens electronic communications without obtaining a warrant based on 0:40:24.040 --> 0:40:27.280 probable cause first, right, Yeah, this was this was essentially 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:29.840 saying that you can only do this kind of crazy 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:33.680 spy stuff if you're talking about non people who are 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:35.759 not American citizens and people who are not in the 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:38.840 United States. It was supposed to cover activity that occurred 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:42.520 outside the US. Now, as we've seen, that's getting trickier 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:45.920 and trickier because the way the world works now, and 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:48.040 the way that the Internet works and and and our 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:52.719 various communication systems work, it's global entity and sometimes that 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:57.720 involves communications passing through the US sometimes involved passing between 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:01.080 people in the US, but the pathway may actually go 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:06.400 outside the US, and so that's caused some blurring of 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:10.280 lines as well. Absolutely. UM. This this act also created 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:14.880 UM an independent court called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.839 and this was made up of eleven federal judges UM 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:21.919 tasked with reviewing these warrant applications that would come in. Yeah, 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:24.160 and we will talk more about that court in the 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:27.239 next episode, because there's a lot to say about how 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:30.960 that court is formed, what they do, and how much 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:32.759 we know about it, which, by the way, that last 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:34.719 a little bit I'll go ahead and spoil it, not 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:39.359 a whole lot. Yeah, the whole thing classified is a thing, 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.400 and you know we are getting some leaked stuff. But 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:44.839 but when it comes down to details, we only I mean, 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:46.759 we know it exists, we know what it does, we 0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:49.000 know who is on it, and we know how they 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:51.839 got there. That's about it, right, But a quick, quick 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:55.480 fun teaser. UM. Supposedly, the court has denied only eleven 0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:59.560 of the nearly thirty four thousand warrant applications it's reviewed, 0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:03.280 between inteen sent right. They have said that they don't 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:07.480 just rubber stamp approval for these requests. But when you 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:12.160 only have eleven denied requests, that causes me to wonder 0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:15.239 suspect rubber stamping, well, or at least wonder what they're 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:17.560 sort of standards. Is that it can be either either 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:21.719 that either their standards are incredibly low and then they 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:26.160 approve pretty much everything, or all the warrants are extremely warranted. Right, 0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:29.480 that's quite possible. That's the other possibility, right, So I 0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:34.240 shouldn't just say as a blanket statement that they approve anything. 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:36.520 It may very well be that the the by the 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:40.680 time the application gets to them, it's actually a valid application. 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:46.120 I don't know because their secret. But anyway, so, yeah, 0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:49.320 the FISA requires the government to get search warrants and 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:52.840 wire tap orders from a court even when investigating foreign 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.520 threats to national security. So it can't just go out 0:42:56.560 --> 0:42:59.799 and act on its own without court approval. But that 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:02.480 or it is, like we said, a secret court and 0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:05.080 we'll we'll go into more detail. Also, by the way, 0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:09.120 if if you are served with a wire tap order 0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:11.279 or a warrant from FISA, it also comes with a 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:14.320 gag order saying that you can never discuss the fact 0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:16.600 that you were served. Yeah, you can't talk about it 0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:19.000 at all. You can't indicate that it was served to you. 0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:22.160 You cannot indicate that you whether you gave information that 0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:25.880 was relevant or not. You you have to just disavow 0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:29.279 that even existed. So that's kind of interesting. And then 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:32.920 we have the last of our major points of legislation 0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:34.799 we wanted to touch on in this podcast, which is 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:38.440 which is the US Patriot Active two thou one. Now, now, 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:42.200 of course, to two thousand one was was when the 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:45.279 attacks of Septemper and leventh happened. Um. The n s 0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:47.840 A came up under a huge fire for failing to 0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:52.040 catch this plot and UM and they have said that 0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:56.200 they had intercepted two messages that something major was going 0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:59.080 to happen on that date, but had no information on 0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:02.560 what or where that action would be happening. Right, And 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:05.440 you have to keep in mind again that traditionally a 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:09.560 lot of these agencies UH work very much independently of 0:44:09.600 --> 0:44:12.560 one another. So there's been a lot of criticism that 0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:16.440 said that if if there was more UH collaborative work, 0:44:17.000 --> 0:44:20.680 that we would catch more of this these potential attacks 0:44:20.719 --> 0:44:23.400 and stop them. And in fact, there there are plenty 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:26.000 of people who have said, you don't even realize how 0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:29.719 many incidents have been prevented because of the changes that 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:32.440 have happened. Uh. And the reason why you don't know 0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:36.160 about them is because they never never happened. Um, which 0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:38.080 is you know that could be that could be a 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:40.560 valid argument. It's hard to say because again, you know, 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:43.560 we don't didn't happen, so we don't know. Lack of 0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:46.600 results is hard to uh, hard to prove a negative. Right. 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:49.399 So the US Patriot Act is is the an Act 0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:52.480 of Congress as signed the law by President George W. Bush, 0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:55.719 And it's meant to detect, prevent, and combat terrorism by 0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:59.360 broadening the powers of intelligence gathering agencies. And it actually 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:03.520 reduced quite a few restrictions that were placed on intelligence gathering. 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:09.600 Title five removes obstacles to investigating terrorism. It expanded FISA 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:13.799 counterintelligence access to telephone toll and transactional records, which will 0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:17.440 come into play in our next episode. And it requires 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:22.600 national security letters. What are national security letters their secret subpoenas. 0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:26.200 They're issued directly by the FBI without the involvement of 0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:29.000 a court, So the FBI does not have to go 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:31.920 to a court judge in order to get a national 0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:36.359 security led letter to h to submit to someone. They 0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:39.480 can actually demand an entity like an Internet service provider, 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:43.640 that that entity must hand over information about customers as 0:45:43.640 --> 0:45:46.240 long as the FBI delivers to the entity a document 0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:49.959 stating that such information is part of an authorized investigation. 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:53.680 But there's no court oversight, So really it just means 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:57.400 that the FBI kind of has free reign to to 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:01.680 issue these orders. Now, people in the FBI say that 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:04.680 there is a very strict process that must be followed 0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:07.000 and that it's not just that. Again, it's not like 0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:11.640 some low level FBI administrative person can rubber stamp one 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.960 of these letters. But um, but it also has this 0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:17.840 gag order part to it where you can't talk about 0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:20.560 it if you get one. Uh, then you've also got 0:46:20.560 --> 0:46:23.520 the Right to Financial Privacy Act of nineteen seventy eight, 0:46:23.560 --> 0:46:26.880 which gave the FBI authority to require financial institutions to 0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:31.360 provide information about their customers or any entities financial records, 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:34.480 and um, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, which requires a 0:46:34.480 --> 0:46:37.120 consumer reporting agency to provide the FBI the names and 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:40.200 addresses of all financial institutions at which a customer maintains 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:43.160 or has maintained an account. Now that of course they 0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:46.440 have to have the justification to do that. But um, 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.879 these are all the things that play into to this 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:55.080 whole idea of privacy, data security, national security and spying 0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:58.800 and intelligence and counter intelligence. And now this Act received 0:46:59.120 --> 0:47:02.680 sweeping bipartisan support in Congress, and no one was really 0:47:02.719 --> 0:47:05.360 willing to argue with it after the events of nine eleven, 0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:08.239 which is understandable. But but also you know, I I 0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:09.960 think it I think it did get pushed through a 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:12.480 little bit too quickly, um, and a little bit too unanimously. 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:15.359 There quite a few people who because because people were 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:17.759 understandably upset, right, And there have been a lot of 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:21.040 critics who have who have said that the changes uh 0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:24.279 in the with the Patriot Act were too great. They 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:26.839 gave the government too much power, it took too much 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:31.320 away from individual citizens. Uh. And you know that again, 0:47:31.360 --> 0:47:33.640 that's a debate that continues to this day. And in fact, 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:36.439 the Patriot Act is not something that was meant to 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:39.920 exist in perpetuity. It has to be renewed every few years. Now. 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.719 So far Congress has been renewing it. Yeah, but there 0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:46.279 are certain titles under the Patriot Act that may not 0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:52.200 be renewed. According to people who are now responding to 0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:57.200 the the controversy that has happened since the information was 0:47:57.239 --> 0:48:00.160 leaked to the public about the n Essays activities. And 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:03.600 in fact, one interesting thing that we should point out, 0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:05.640 and we will talk about it more in the next podcast, 0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:09.359 is that one of the architects for the Patriot Act 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:13.040 has gone on record as saying this goes too far. 0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:16.440 So if the person who authored the act that gave 0:48:16.520 --> 0:48:22.520 the government broad uh release of restrictions says, hey, that's 0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:25.239 going too far, it's time to at least have a 0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:29.000 conversation about it. If not, you know, make some really 0:48:29.040 --> 0:48:31.440 tough decisions. But we're going to save that for our 0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:34.200 next episode, right. I think that we've set the stage 0:48:34.280 --> 0:48:37.560 for everything that um that has happened in the past 0:48:37.880 --> 0:48:40.719 uh ten, ten eleven years. Yeah, and you and we 0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:44.000 understand this episode is not really tech heavy. Obviously, this 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:46.920 is more like government stuff than tech stuff. But it 0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:50.799 really have a conversation about the tech stuff you have 0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:54.000 to understand all of this other stuff that's going on. 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:56.520 And also, I mean, you know, these these are all 0:48:56.600 --> 0:48:58.759 issues that that affect all of us and all of 0:48:58.760 --> 0:49:02.120 our our internet you said in Communications and Privacy every day. 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:05.439 So yep, it's important so all right, so we're gonna 0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:08.440 wrap this one up, and we're gonna Lauren and I 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:10.239 are going to take a quick break and take some 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:12.800 time to drink some tea, and then we're gonna dive 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.719 into the next episode, which you guys get to hear 0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:17.839 in a couple of days, unless you just save these 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.719 all up at once, in which case enjoy. So, if 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:23.040 you guys have any suggestions for topics we should tackle 0:49:23.080 --> 0:49:25.920 in future episodes of tech Stuff, I've got a great 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.359 suggestion for you. What is it, Jonathan? Let us know, 0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:31.759 because we can't read your mind or your email, we're 0:49:31.800 --> 0:49:35.040 not the n s A. Send us a message, uh 0:49:35.200 --> 0:49:38.360 encrypted it you like? Send us a message. Our email 0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.680 is tex Stuff at Discovery dot com, or drop us 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:44.279 a line on Twitter or Facebook. I warn you if 0:49:44.320 --> 0:49:47.640 you do use code, we may never know what you said, 0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:50.160 but you can find us with a handle tech Stuff 0:49:50.280 --> 0:49:52.160 hs W and Lauren and I will talk to you 0:49:52.200 --> 0:50:03.400 again really soon. For more on this and thousands of 0:50:03.400 --> 0:50:15.400 other topics, visit how staff works dot com.