WEBVTT - One More Thing 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.960 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.840 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:17.640 tech Stuff from how stuff Works dot coming. Hello everyone, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.680 and welcome to text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, the senior 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:23.920 writer here at how stuff works dot Com, and sitting 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:29.520 across from me, as always, is editor Chris Pallette. Here's 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.479 to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.760 the round pegs and the square holes, the ones who 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.199 see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.640 have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.680 disagree with them, glorify or vilify them about the only 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.440 thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.120 They push the human race forward. And while some may 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.880 see them as the crazy ones, we see genius because 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.760 the people who are crazy enough to think they can 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.959 change the world are the ones who do. So. We're 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.360 doing a very special episode of tech Stuff, and uh, 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:17.639 it's not something that we would normally do. We've already 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.440 done two episodes about Steve Jobs, one of them specifically 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.160 about Steve Jobs about because we were doing a compare 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.520 and contrast with Bill Gates. In fact, the original concept 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.360 of those two episodes, if you go back and look 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.800 at the history of tech stuff. Originally we were just 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.319 gonna do one episode where we're just going to compare 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:39.760 and contrast the two men, and it became abundantly clear 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.360 as we were recording the show that that was not 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.160 going to happen because it was just too much stuff 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.040 about both of those men. So each one got his 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.920 own episode. Yeah, they're the thing that struck I think 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.960 both Jonathan and me if I mean sure, I think 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:56.840 I'm doing a little mind reading, but I think I'm right. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.240 The one thing that struck both of us is that 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.640 these two guys not only influenced tech from a particular 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.960 point in time, but they are eerily similar in a 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:09.720 lot of in a lot of respects. There are a 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.680 lot of parallels about the same age. They both dropped 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.080 out of school to found a company, to found a company, uh, 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.760 and they worked together for a very long time and 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.600 against one another, both of them very strong personalities. Our 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.239 second episode about Steve Jobs was really about what was 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.960 going to happen to Apple once Steve Jobs stepped down, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.280 which he did earlier. Inn Now we're recording this episode 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:38.280 the week that we learned of Steve Jobs as death. So, um, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.880 it's tough. It's weird to be upset about a CEO 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.400 whom you've never met. But at the same time, it 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:52.160 is impossible to deny Steve jobs as impact on technology 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:57.200 and on us personally and professionally. So we know that 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:02.280 you've probably heard multiple memorial and tributes, lots of people 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:07.320 have been saying very uh deep things about Steve Jobs. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.000 We're not really going to dive into his life or 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.480 anything like that in this episode because one, we've done 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.840 it before and to other people are doing that so 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:19.840 much right now that there's just not a point. We 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.840 wanted to talk more about how Steve Jobs work and 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:28.080 how Apple's products have affected us, both on a professional 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.120 level and on a personal level. And I think we're 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.080 just gonna kind of share some stories. And again, this 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.720 is not something we normally do. I mean, usually we 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.480 like to be friendly, we like to have our our banter, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.440 but we don't tend to share a lot about ourselves. Um. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.320 In this show, little bits and pieces tend to come out, 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.080 but this one I think is going to be maybe 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.160 a little more um raw. Well, the you know, the 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.000 point of the show is for us to talk about technology, 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.440 not about us, and we we like to talk about 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.200 technology and humanity, you know, how how people use technology, 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:05.440 how technology have affects people. Um, And I think for once, uh, 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:10.640 we've come across a technology related person who uh he 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.800 was so larger than life at his company that it 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.479 was hard not to follow. And I think the same. Uh. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.440 It's true, you know that, I'm sure that we have 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.840 some people who are who don't particularly like Apple or 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.440 its products because of the philosophy behind the company. Sure, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.000 I think I think we would be having this same 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.200 kind of conversation about certain other people, including Bill Gates, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:37.000 because we're interested in in these guys. And you can't 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.960 deny the impact. I mean, even let's say you never 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.520 have bought an Apple product in your life, that you 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.240 have no interest in Apple products whatsoever. The products you 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.479 do buy, we're influenced by Apple and vice versa. Yeah, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.880 so either the products you bought is uh, it may 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.680 be that that the reason the products you bought looks 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.680 the way it does because of Apple for one of 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.080 two reasons. Either the company wanted to make something that 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.880 looked sort of like Apple products because Apple products have 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:11.479 such a undeniable appeal among a very large portion of 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:16.560 the population, or it specifically does not look like an 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.960 Apple product in order to go a totally different direction. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.920 But either way, the decision for that design was at 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.720 least somewhat based upon what Apple did. Apple did the 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.640 same thing. In fact, before we get into our personal stories, 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.800 one of the things I've said several times this week 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.480 since his passing is that what Steve Jobs was really 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.040 a master at was taking a look at existing technology 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.680 that had not met with much success in the consumer 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.520 market and find a way to make it work in 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.600 the consumer market. So it's not necessarily that he invented things, 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:56.160 but that he took stuff that just the average consumer 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.520 either wasn't aware of or wasn't interested in, and turned 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.000 that into way must have product. And that is genius. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.760 It may not be the sort of genius that you know, 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:07.760 you get the light bulb that pops up over your 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.840 head and you suddenly invent something phenomenal, But it may 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.839 be that you look at something that no one else 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.560 has given really a chance because it just doesn't seem 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.320 like anyone's interested in it. You do your magic, and 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.479 then suddenly everyone once one and let's here's a quick 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.120 rundown of some of the stuff that Steve Jobs was 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.119 really able to to push out there. First of all, 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.919 he's one of the geniuses who really did usher in 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.400 the era of the personal computer. You know, personal computers 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.800 didn't begin with the Apple Too, but the once the 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.680 Apple to hit the market, they started to really become 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.719 popular among consumers. They were still luxury products. They were 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:49.080 very expensive, especially for the time. Um but before the 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.839 Apple Too, personal computers were really in the realm of 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:57.640 hobbyists and early adopters, and beyond that that market, you 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.320 didn't see a lot of personal computers out there. Apple 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.119 to change that. Now, other computers came behind the Apple 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.000 too and even broke through other barriers, but that was 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.200 one of those early successes. Then you have the Mac, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.960 which had the first real graphical user interface and mouse 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:17.600 combination for a personal computer. Right, those those were not new. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.440 The mouse and graphical user interface had been displayed as 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:25.920 far back as I think the late sixties over at Xerox. Yeah, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.120 and um you know that that actually makes this is 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.160 a good time to point out a couple of things. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.080 Um uh. One of course, Steve Jobs couldn't have done 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:41.400 all of these things by himself. Um, he knows or 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:48.280 he he knew a lot about it. He knew a 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.960 lot about how to encourage other smart and talented people 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:58.360 to do their best work, sometimes by being aggressive with him. 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.040 Sometimes he was a jerk. You know what we Steve 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.240 Jobs had an amazing effect on technology, but he was 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:11.080 also he was yeah, definitely abrasive, aggressive, insulting. I mean, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.160 we don't want to paint a picture here where we're 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.840 saying like he he had no faults. That's not the 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.000 purpose of this podcast either. We're very much aware of them. 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.440 But he got results. And and there will be people 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.920 who say that Apple stole the idea for a gooey 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.880 from Park Heck. Steve Jobs said at one point that 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.680 you know, you don't copy ideas, you steal him. He 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.680 said that, I think in nineties six when he came 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.440 back to Apple. Yeah, yeah, so, I mean. But on 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.960 the other hand, Xerox was not in the business of 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.240 making personal computers for people in the same way that 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:50.560 Apple was. Um, and somebody will also probably point out that, uh, 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.880 Steve and the Macintosh team at Apple did not necessarily 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.280 get along all that well, Steve was actually backing the 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:03.160 Lisa um where flopped a lot of There are a 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.120 few reasons, one of which was the price. It was 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.880 extremely expensive. Um. But you know, Steve also knew when 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:15.160 the Macintosh had one and was supportive of it. Later. Yes, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.640 and again the Macintosh, you could you could come up 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.360 to me and say, hey, Jonathan, but the Macintosh doesn't 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.280 have it never had the kind of market share that 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:30.040 Windows based PCs did. Windows based PCs were by far 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.360 the majority in the market compared to the Mac. And 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.640 I would agree with you, except I would also say, yeah, 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.840 but Windows based machines are using a graphical user interface, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.920 and one could argue that the reason for that is 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:48.600 because of the Mac. Specifically that they Microsoft licensed the 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.360 Mac operating system look and feel for use in the 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.839 very first version of Windows. So that was what the 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.160 lawsuit was about, was whether or not they were allowed 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.880 to continue with that past the first version. Right, So 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.680 you've got you know that there's there's an example of 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.280 Steve Jobs influencing the whole industry. Um. Then not just 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.679 Steve Jobs, obviously, but he's he's really the driving personality 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.000 behind a lot of what Apple did the same thing 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.640 with MP three players. MP three players existed before the 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.160 iPod came out, but the iPod was arguably the first 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.480 device that the average consumers saw and said I get it, 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.760 I understand what that's about, and I want one. And 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.360 it really helped once iTunes launched, because once iTunes and 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.520 iPod were out there, especially if you had a Mac computer, 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:34.480 it was a little more of a headache if you 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.679 used a PC, a Windows based PC, but it just 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.200 it was an ecosystem that worked great, and it was 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.880 really easy to synchronize music, to organize music UM and 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:49.000 of course the iPod eventually made it very easy to 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.719 have a podcast. So there's one impact we can talk 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.600 about right now. Without Steve Jobs and his work and 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.520 the work that Apple did, we wouldn't have a show. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.559 It's not that podcasts wouldn't exist. They probably would. You 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.800 would probably still have some people out there who were 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:11.040 making audio and video content that you could subscribe through 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:15.320 some RSS catcher program, but it would be a much 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.280 more niche oriented thing. You wouldn't hit the broad audience 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:24.199 that you can with UM podcast today because frankly, iTunes 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.760 makes it so easy on the user to subscribe to them. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.760 So without iTunes, we would not have the audience that 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:33.480 we do have, we'd have a lot of you because 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.800 a lot of you, I know are using other ways 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.400 of listening to us, but the vast majority of you 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:44.440 are are using iTunes or an app and uh and 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.880 so chances are we would have never even tried to 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.640 start a show because we just wouldn't think we'd reach 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.680 very many people. So there's an impact right there. Also 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.560 things like the smartphone, I mean, the iPhone really brought 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.800 the smartphone to the consumer market in a way that 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:06.080 was unprecedented. Yeah, we talked about earlier types of smartphones, um, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.720 the Trio from Trio uh and and BlackBerry of course, 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.800 but those were those were things that business people carried. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:20.200 There wasn't really a lot of reason to use um 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:24.360 those devices for a lot of people. They just didn't 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.360 They've got features that I don't really need. Why would 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.320 I want email? I mean, I can do that at home. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.400 And you know, if part of it is the technology 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.760 and part of it is making it look good, and 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.640 you know that the iPhone really did that. They said, 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.839 you know, isn't this cool? Don't you think this this 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.520 would be fun to play with? And people said, yeah, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.720 So we've sort of established the tape that Steve Jobs. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:53.600 You know, has had an enormous impact on technology. Um, 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.320 whether directly through Apple or indirectly because Apple's products have 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:02.560 influenced other other companies to try and either uh outdo 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.440 Apple or to go a completely different direction because they 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.199 felt that Apple had sewn up that particular space. Uh. 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:14.400 Let's talk about how how Jobs and Apple have affected 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.959 us personally. Do you want to go first? You want 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.480 me to go first? I'll tell my I'll tell my 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.000 first story. Um. So I've talked about this before in 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.760 the podcast. Uh. You know, as a kid, when I 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.199 was growing up, I had access to a couple of 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.280 different computers, but the first computer that I started to 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.520 use that I really used extensively was the Apple to E. Now, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.240 my father got an Apple to E because my father, 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.160 among other things, as a professional writer, and he wanted 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.600 to have a computer so that he could write his books, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.959 save things to a diskette five and a quarter inch 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.480 disc and uh and and be able. Actually, when I 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.280 say save his books to a five ocquarter inch disc, 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.040 I really mean save a couple of chapters to a 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.360 five and acquarter inch disc. If you go back and 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.040 look at my dad's bibliography, on the old Apple two E. Uh, 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.360 you're talking about a couple of m couple of of 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.920 disc holders full of discs, because I remember those books 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.199 would take up like twenty discs total. Didn't have a 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.360 lot of storage space back then. Anyway, that was the 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:20.400 computer that I really started to use frequently. And I 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.960 really do believe that my love of technology somewhat. I 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.080 I have to credit that somewhat to Apple into Steve Jobs, 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:32.240 because it was those early experiences with the Apple two 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:37.840 E that taught me to love tech. And without those experiences, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.240 I can't say for sure that I would have developed 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.760 the same love. Now. I've always been some something of 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.800 a geek and a doric and all that kind of stuff. 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.080 I know, it's shocking, isn't it, um, But I don't 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.160 know that that would have developed into that interest, right, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.480 I might have become a comic book geek and never 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.440 really looked at computers instead of doing it the other 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.120 way around. UM. So really, if you think of it 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.440 that way and you extrapolate from that, because of my 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.280 love of tech, in no small part, my love of 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.000 tech is what helped me get my job as a 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.160 writer at how Stuff Works dot com. If I didn't 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.680 love technology, I wouldn't have even thought to apply to 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.800 be a writer for a website. It's certainly contributed to 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.240 becoming the writer for the technology channel on how stuff 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.840 works dot com. When I first started at how Stuff Works, 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.920 I was not at the tech writer. I was one 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.080 of two staff writers, and that that's all we had 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:41.560 for staff writers. Uh. Eventually we built up our writing 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.760 staff so that we would differentiate and and and and 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.640 specialize in various channels on the site, and it fell 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.360 to me to be the tech writer, which I embraced 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.280 because I love technology. And uh. That's also why when 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.960 it came time to start launching podcasts and we talked 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.560 about Technology pod us, I was one of the people 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.960 talked to about doing the the Tech podcast. So I 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.920 can say for two reasons now, I would not be 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.520 on tech stuff if it weren't for Apple and Steve Jobs. 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.880 Because if I hadn't developed that love, I wouldn't even 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.320 be here, and I certainly wouldn't have the the desire 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:21.960 to talk about technology. But because of that I have. 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.600 You know, we have the tech Stuff podcast and I'm 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:30.720 a happy participant in it. M Um, Well it's um 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.440 listeners who remember back when we talked about the Amiga. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.280 Remember that the Amiga was my first computer and UM 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:42.200 I got that back in which was, of course the 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:46.080 year after the UH the Macintosh came out, the Mac Classic, 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.840 which of course wasn't Classic back then because it was 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.120 brand new UM. And they both ran on similar processors, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:58.040 the sixty thousand series Motor Role processor UM. And it's 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.120 it's funny because at the time, UM, those of us 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.520 who were Amiga people, and there are still a lot 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.639 of loyal Amigans out there, but a lot of them 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.080 are using other operating systems like me UM. You know 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.879 that at the time it was the Amiga versus the 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.719 Mac and the Atar E S T. And then there 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.400 were PCs out there, but those were business machines. Those 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.040 weren't home computers. Those weren't the machines that people brought 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.560 home because you couldn't do all the stuff you could. 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.919 I mean, it's like black, black and amber monitors. You know, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.400 they specific protocols and they weren't designed to necessarily run 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.080 other kinds of programs. Yeah, so it seemed it seemed 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.200 to a lot of us that you know, it was 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:44.040 a three way race for what was coming in the future, UM, 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.159 and you would have you know, the the PC and 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.600 then you know the three of us, and I think 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.200 there were there was a lot of infighting, at least 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.359 that was my perception from the the Amiga side. And uh, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.240 you know, I had I had a friend who I 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.240 teased a lot. He had a uh app well to 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.879 see UM and I teased him about that because he 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.440 had a monochrome monitor. And then I had a friend 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.879 who got a Mac and I was really impressed with 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.480 all the things. I had a couple of friends actually 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.560 had Max and I you know, played load Runner on 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.360 the machines and um, you know, I was really impressed 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.240 with the typography. And this is actually interesting. I had 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.000 never watched the two thousand five commencement address that that 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.440 Steve Jobs gave at Stanford UM. But he said after 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.520 he left Read College, UM, he had actually dropped in 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.040 on some classes and one of which was a calligraphy class, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.760 which was really excellent. He said, you know, at the 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.360 time it was just something he was really interested in. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.280 But he learned a lot about how letters look uh, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:50.760 and and fonts and typefaces uh, things like spacing between letters. UM. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.439 And he really wouldn't have necessarily chalked that up to 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:57.920 something that he would need, but later typography became one 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:03.159 of the core UH differences between the Macintosh and so 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.240 many other computers. I remember taking my Amiga to college 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.399 with me. UM. I started with the Amiga one thousand 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.760 that I got in high school, and then UM Amiga 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.840 three thousand, and I remember being frustrated because the campus 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.719 I went to UM it was a mac uh mac school, 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.440 so they had of course, you know, Apple has always been, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.480 or at least back in the eighties and nineties, was 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:34.399 really pushing for the education market. And I've been remember 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.280 being really frustrated that the fonts in the Amiga just 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.280 weren't as when you printed things out. I wanted my 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.800 papers to look like everyone else's papers, and people who 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.399 had MAX could do so much more. And then the 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.439 Amiga gradually, you know, commodore folded and UH it just 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.399 gradually looked like I was going to be orphaned forever. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.600 Um it appears that way now, but just a couple 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:56.600 of years ago it looked like, you know, there might 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.280 be a home for the Amiga in some context. UM. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.920 But I got married and my wife brought her UH 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:08.239 mac LC two UM with her and we she had 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.400 a performer in college and then got an ELC two 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.000 and that was my first what I would consider my 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.680 first Mac. UM. And then you know, I just I 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:18.720 liked the operating system. The more I used it, the 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:25.640 more I liked it. UM. This was probably I guess. UM. 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.040 So UM. You know, I got to the point where 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.159 I really really enjoyed working on the operating system. I 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.080 got a job where I could do that. I was 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.639 into a little bit of graphic design type stuff. I 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.680 worked in a newspaper that was a Mac shop. Um. 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.199 It's where I needed to use Photoshop to h to 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.040 work on paper and cork express to do layout. UM. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.000 And you know, the more I used it, the more 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.240 I liked it. And at that point, you know, it 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.160 was the Mac operating system versus uh Windows three point one, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.679 which I mean Windows three point one was clunky. UM. 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.680 I think most people would agree to to that, and uh, 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:03.560 you know, I just decided that that's what I wanted 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.720 to do. And uh, you know, I ended up with 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.520 the very first iMac on the day it came out 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:14.600 in August of UM ended up getting several Macs over 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:19.760 the years, UM and other devices to my first iPod 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.360 was an iPod four G black and white scroll wheel. Um. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.400 Then I got an iPod Touch later on. And uh, 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.240 I got the iPad the week it came out, not 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:30.840 the first day it came out, but the first week 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.479 it came out. I gave you no end of trouble 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.000 about that. Well, here's here's another thing. I mean. Steve 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.359 Jobs was famous for his reality distortion field where he 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.119 could he could talk you into stuff. And I admit 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.440 I was skeptical that a tablet would break in after 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.560 all the years of windows tablets. Um. And this is 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.240 after you know, several iterations of windows to the point 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.280 where you know, I've had I've worked at several jobs 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.720 where I needed windows, and I actually, um, actually don't 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.879 mind windows, you know. And I've used into and uh, 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:03.720 you know a couple other flavors of lenox, and I 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:08.560 like those two. I still prefer the Mac interface. Um. 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:10.520 But you know, looking at the windows tablets and when 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.359 you know the form factors there, and people are just 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.520 not embracing this outside of certain fields like the medical profession, 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.600 where it makes a lot of sense to have something 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.520 like that. And then you know, I picked one up 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.200 and I said, you know what this is this is different. 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.919 And I've heard people say, oh, well, you know, the 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.480 people who buy iPads, they buy iPads and and they're 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:33.560 finding ways to make use of them, but they didn't 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:35.920 really need one to begin with. But I would argue 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.040 that that's true of the personal computer. Um and I 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.320 think I may have even said that on this podcast before. 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.199 But um, you know, at the at the point in 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:47.639 the nineteen eighties, uh, you know when I got a 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.320 personal computer. Uh well, your dad had a good reason 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.280 to have a personal computer. Uh MoMA wanted to do 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.160 some finance stuff. To be fair, Dead also played video 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.280 games about as frequently as I did. So yeah, their 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.000 main times were Dead was quote unquote working on the 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:07.520 novel when he was really playing Sid Meier's Pirates. But yeah, 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.600