WEBVTT - Cascadia Forest Defense: Good News Update! 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:09.600 Welcome to it could happen here talk podcast yep, I 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.239 could say it a podcast. That's what we're doing, and 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.600 it's about it's about how things are kinda kind of 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:17.720 kind of falling apart sometimes, or at least it feels 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.840 like it, and I don't know, maybe we can do 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.240 some things to help make it better, like what happened 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:27.760 recently in terms of forests. So, hey, a good news episode. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:33.040 Whoa rare rare, rare episode drop for us? Uh, we 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.640 got some good news. So I'm gonna be talking with Sam, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.599 who was on a previous episode discussing a forest defense, 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.920 about an update on on all of the things that 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.520 we were talking about a few weeks ago. Um, So yeah, 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.440 I think we can. We can pretty much get into 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.160 it and then then we'll talk about some other stuff 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.520 around kind of forests in general. So hello, Sam, Thank 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.840 thank you for joining me again to talk about trees, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:03.240 one of one of our favorite topics. Hello, my pleasure always. So. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.400 I think it was like a day or two after 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:09.920 we drafted the episode or something, or I think I 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.640 think it was. Actually it was maybe maybe even like 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.080 right like right before, um, we got some extra extra 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.400 news about all about the post about the postfire logging 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:27.360 um near the bright Bush Watershed. Um, yeah, what happened there? Yeah? Yeah, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.600 it was pretty wild. Actually, it was really serendipitous timing too. UM. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.919 We as I think we mentioned in the last podcast, 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.560 we were awaiting the first hearing for the court case. Essentially, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.039 you know, we believed that the plan to log in 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.000 that area for myriad reasons was not only unethical but 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.920 also illegal. Um. And so it was going to court 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:53.880 and we were awaiting a hearing that happened on December three, Friday. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.240 And typically the judge does not rule from the bench 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:58.880 in these sorts of hearings, and so we did not 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.080 expect the decision on that day. UM. But sure enough, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.320 the judge felt uh strongly enough about this case and 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.360 sure enough about her decision that she did roll from 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.239 the bench and ruled in our favor. And so yeah, victories. UM. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.560 Now we have um a preliminary injunction in place, meaning 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.560 that no logging can happen there, um at least until 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.680 this uh timber sale has its real day in court, 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.560 or until the four Service just drops this Shenanigan entirely, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.399 which hopefully they will do. But we'll see. Yeah, so 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.880 they they blocked, they blocked the posts part logging and 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.280 the the the basically started start starting to clear cut 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.959 these areas without without actual like public and puting, without 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.920 actually going through the process. As flawed as the process, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.560 maybe they were just skipping it entirely. So that that 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.400 was that was that was blocked by this, by by 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.200 this legal case. Um what was I guess? Yeah, well 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.640 what was what was the uh? What what was what? 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.760 What was the reaction like in in in the room 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:05.800 and in the very US signal chats this happened, Yeah, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.840 in the ether spheres, Um, the reaction was super awesome. 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.520 I mean, so many people love this place and that 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.760 was kind of the whole point of what we were 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.480 trying to do when we did the direct action out 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.240 there a number of weeks ago. It was just demonstrate 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.680 how many people love this place and how the four 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.280 Service wasn't going to get away with what they're planning 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.520 to do. Um, because people, as we promised, would be 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.839 back if they tried to log it and move forward 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.000 without logging, which, as you pointed out, and as we 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.000 said last time, was super sketchy, not only because it 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.400 was a terrible plan that they were planning to do 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.400 um in this beloved for us, but also because it 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.520 was behind locked gates that in the public wasn't allowed 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.200 into and so UM, it was just this you know, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.160 travesty that was about to happen. And when we found 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:55.240 out UM, and when we heard the judges incredibly strong ruling, UM, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.080 we you know, were absolutely overjoyed. UM. The news spread, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.600 you know, like wild fire, excuse the pun it do 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:06.360 it um, and just you know, all the signal threads 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.080 were popping. People were putting it on Twitter. People were 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.320 reposting the sexy photos of the blockade with the giant 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.480 slash pile and the fire truck and the band on 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.960 top of the fire truck. And I just wish that 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.240 we all could have hung out again and had another 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.240 dance party because it was the best that doesn't incredibly 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:27.719 incredibly rad UM was was like your this is this 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.800 is this is something I don't I don't don't actually know, 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.279 but I was like it was like the documentation that 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.840 was taking place by by going to these places and 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.280 showing hey, this is where they're cutting. Was that brought 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.800 up in the court case in terms of like, hey, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.360 this is we actually went and saw what's actually happening. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.640 So it was was that type of evidence used and 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.800 did it in your mind like um um uh kind 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.880 of be a small part of like the result of 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.560 the ruling. Yeah, it definitely was. And that is such 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.680 an important point and I really hope that everyone who's 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.320 listening can just like put that in their minds for later. 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.400 How important it is for people to be UM field 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.760 surveying or sometimes we call it ground truth thing um 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:12.719 these places and actually collecting documentation photographic evidence. UM. A 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.280 lot of folks do kind of like we call community 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.000 surveying and collect um some site specific um kind of 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.240 like uh, community science sort of stuff. UM. But all 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.520 of that was used in court and it was super awesome. UM. 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.680 I actually was one of the standing declarence, so I 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.280 got to submit a lot of evidence from my many 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.000 years of traveling that place. UM, and that all of 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.320 that was referenced in court. So so so important. UM. 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.120 Even you know, when the forest services essentially trying to 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.880 kick everyone out and keep everyone out of these places, 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.719 it's really important to go um and see them anyways. Obviously, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.560 you know, everyone needs to consider how they do that 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.560 and their own security and safety. UM. And it's becoming difficult. Um, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.200 but certainly putting eyes on threatened places is one of 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.080 the best tools we have to save them. Yeah. And 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.080 I just think that's really important to really focus on 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.000 that as like a thing because like, yeah, stuff that 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:11.599 people did actually had an impact on this not happening 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.000 right now. Um. And yeah, but by going out there 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.719 and documenting and then talking about it, um, it has 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.640 like an actual like causal relation, which is very hard 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:28.039 to It's it's it's hard to get direct causal stuff 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.000 to happen in like the general umbrella of activism. Um. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.920 And it's I think it's it's just really exciting that 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.920 that that this happened. Yeah, that's so true. It does 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.920 feel in the general umbrellaive activism really hard to point 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.000 to things that we do that are actually making an effect, 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.320 and this is totally one of them. I mean, when 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:52.560 if and when this case does have its day in court, um, 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.040 you know, outside of the preliminary injunction itself. UM, I 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.680 am sure that so much of that evidence from all 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.200 the folks who've been traveling there, um and documenting it 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.080 will be used. We documented, you know, so many green 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.080 living trees and places the Forest Service that were dead. Um. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.280 You know, so many like unused roads in places the 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.720 Forest Service said they needed to log alongside these roads 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.640 because they're so traffic and they're posing a safety hazard. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.840 And so it's basically like, you know, the best way 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.480 to expose their gas lighting and lies is to just 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.000 go document what's there. Yeah, because a big part of 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.800 their ability to do this is utilizing deception in terms 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.160 of like and and and utilizing like non information, like 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.480 they're just not talking about the stuff that's actually happening, 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.440 or they're doing like white lies to make it sound better. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.720 So they're just they're they're lying about the type of 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.120 like um uh, the type of sales that they're doing 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.280 with these with these treets, and like how they're classifying 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.000 the trees that they're logging to like get it past 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.800 all of the loopholes. But they're not actually like that, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.640 that's not actually reality. They're just changing the terms to 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.080 make it fit what they want. So like as so 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:01.520 as soon as you start looking into this stuff, it 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.120 gets all it gets very sketchy because it is they're 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.680 just lying about a lot of this stuff. Like if 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.280 you're like listening and be like, oh, you know, be 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.000 these people just love trees, Like, yes, we do love trees, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.160 but like the actual thing that's going on is like 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.680 they're lying about the types of damage that's being done, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.400 they're lying about what areas this is happening in all 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.960 to just rack up more timber sales. Like that that 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.760 that is that that that is what's actually happening. Um. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.280 And that's so so important to say, like loudly and clearly, 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:34.080 because the Forest Service and other management agencies are experts 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:38.200 in making the public feel dumb and wrong and misinformed. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.640 And right now, even we sound a little wing nutty 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.800 being like yeah, you know, but like let us be clear, 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:50.320 a federal judge agrees with us. Yeah, you know, like 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.920 we're not the ones who are wrong here, and I 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.320 think you're totally right. You know, they're using a mixture 0:08:55.440 --> 0:09:00.160 of blatant lies, um, but also euphemisms like we on. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.559 They don't they don't use the word clear cut anymore. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.960 They're using all of these euphemisms, you know, regeneration, harvest, 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.199 I ship you not a lot of and a lot 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.080 of this stuff that they're deciding to do is like 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.160 not open to the public. You need to do, like 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.320 fully requests to to to actually learn what they're doing 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.640 because they don't talk about it like that. It is all. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.360 It is all extremely sketchy. And yeah, like the fact 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:25.079 that like a federal a federal judge agreed with like 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.480 green activists is not a sentence you here often so 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.800 like it's like yeah, like this is actually a thing, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:33.800 and it's it's important to remember, like you are not 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.400 immune to propaganda, like all a lot of this stuff 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.080 is uh is has people who want a lot of 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.120 money are vested in making people believe things about about 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.680 about about like force management and all this kind of stuff. Um, yeah, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.800 I know it may it may sound crazy when we're 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.720 talking about you know, the secret Illuminati of the Force Service, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.000 but like no, like it acts like it's it is. 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.640 It is a governmental organization. All governmental organizations are kind 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.920 of sketch, especially when their sole purpose is to one 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.960 of their purposes is to make money or assistant like 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.320 sales of something like yeah, it's it's gonna have some 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:11.440 sketchy stuff. Um. Absolutely, and also you know in the 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.920 realm of just like the propaganda machine. Um we you know, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.200 just the other day, Um, a hilarious response piece came 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.480 out from the Timber Industry and Organization called Federal Forest 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.679 Resource Coalition, which is just a coalition of loggers. UM 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.600 put out this hilarious little mini video responding directly to 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.880 the line that we've been using in forest events, which 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.480 is worth more standing. Our forests are worth more standing, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.560 And they put out a hilarious response that is essentially 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:42.960 you know, pushing this timber sale, this logging propaganda, saying well, actually, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.280 our forests aren't worth anything standing after they've been burned, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.040 and they're contributing to the climate crisis, and they're destructive, 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.679 you know, and all these things, and so totally, I mean, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.679 even people who see it with their eyes can be 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:00.559 convinced by these voices that they're wrong because they're so good, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.320 so good at making us feel just like we're the 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:07.200 wrong ones, but we're not. Yeah, in terms of like 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.920 this the secretive kind of decision making and stuff behind 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.400 the scenes, in terms of like the types of like 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.920 terms they are using to to you know, do like restoration, thinning, 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.720 um and all this stuff around around trying to like 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.080 basically just just take as many trees from the Bright 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.679 British Watershed as they can. I know. The judge said 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:32.640 that she was quote disappointed in the agency, uh for 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.559 for all of their silly behind the scenes trench coat 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.640 meat in the dark alley way to pass off information 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.480 type of thing um, which is yeah, like so what 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.400 what what is? What is some of the other kind 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.760 of um stuff that the four Service and the related 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.440 organizations were trying to we're trying to hide like what 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.400 like what what? What What? What? What? What was the stuff 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.520 that like came out um via this legal process that 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.079 was like yeah, what was it was? The was so 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.120 a few of the actual things that they were that 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:06.160 they were trying to do that eventually like came to light. 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.520 M hmm. The major thing is that they were trying 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:15.199 to get away with changing the logging contracts without doing 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.600 any additional environmental analysis or public engagement process. And so 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.920 there were before there were there was a plan to 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.040 do what they what we had fought them so hard 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.280 to get them to agree to do, which was not 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.200 log a bunch of these this older stands protect tree. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.080 They had a diameter limit on trees that they were 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.400 going to log. So we basically like slapped their hands 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.760 off of all of these trees and finally were like, okay, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:43.920 we won't sue you if you move forward with the 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.880 plan as stated, and it had very strong sideboards, and 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.920 you know, even local folks were like, okay, go do this. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:52.920 And then the fires came through, and so what they 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.120 were trying to do was just change the plans. They 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.760 turned it all into clear cuts in the forest that 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.160 we slapped their hands off of. And they were trying 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.320 to argue that they didn't need to do any an 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.520 additional analysis and they didn't need to engage the public, 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.720 and even in court, you know, that's what they were arguing. Um, 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.160 They're they're doing some stupid magic math and you know, somersaults, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.880 um to try and explain how they had already done 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.720 an analysis that accounted somehow for the fires that no 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:25.040 one could have ever predicted before. At ye. So the 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.120 judge was like just you know, she was just roundly like, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.880 y'all couldn't have predicted. I like to give her, you know, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.840 Southern accident, y'all, I couldn't have predicted, Judge Akins still 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.440 the South. No, Uh, you couldn't have predicted. Uh, you 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.560 know that the fires were going to burn through, and 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.040 so there's no way you could have done analysis for 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.839 fire that you didn't know what's going to happen here 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.800 us silly little beasts. But she did talk to them, 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.360 you know, as if they were just naughty little children, 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.960 which I loved to hear. You know, the disappointed in 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.640 the Forest Service was a major move, and I think 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.680 the other one that came up is just you know, 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.240 the Forest Service was arguing that they need need it 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.720 quote need to do this logging um, for restoration, for 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.160 economic recovery, um, and to prevent future wildfires from severely 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.480 burning in the area. All of that to BS. Like. 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.040 One thing that the judge said that was super strong, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.880 UM was that she sees and obviously I'm paraphrasing here, um, 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:24.240 but she she sees that the community loves this place. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.720 It's obvious that this is like a beloved place, and she, 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.040 you know, essentially understands that the forest is worth more standing. 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.000 She said that she wanted she thinks that the forest 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.240 needs an opportunity to recover from the fires. And so 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.120 basically just called the BS on the Forest Service for 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.120 their hilarious, you know, justifications for logging. All the We're 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.880 gonna save the forest by logging. It is just not 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.960 it's not right, it's not accurate. In the judge agrees. Yeah, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.160 I'm very very excited about about this ruling and what 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.320 it means for the future and at least at least 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.400 at least postponing this until um if if if the 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:01.560 if the lawsuit is going going to go through, or 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.520 if or if they're just gonna drop this, which they 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.400 also very well, maybe they might decide to focus on 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.040 another part that is that they just don't tell anybody 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.360 about and start doing it there and then you know, 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.840 we'll we'll start we'll start this again. But for this 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.600 particular area, UM, that is that is very exciting, and yeah, 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.600 it is. It is rare for a federal judge to 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.960 agree with people on this topic. UM. And now I 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:25.440 want want to talk about a few other kind of 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.760 stuff around like forests, um and how and how these 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.360 kind of types of things work. I didn't get an 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.400 interesting comment which I totally agree with in terms of 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:39.320 like how propaganda works in this department, um, and how 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.360 like how like logging towns operate, or how like towns 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.240 became logging towns, how like they're basically able to convince 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.560 local populations that logging is is like good because like yeah, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.440 like they're they're gonna they're gonna move into this town. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.240 They're gonna restore the town because they're gonna bring in 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.400 new money through like a logging industry. Um. And yeah, 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.360 this is a very like, very like a tipic coal move, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.480 whether it be for like you know, coal mining, whether 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.400 it be for pipelines. In terms of like big companies 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.000 going into small towns to be like, hey, we can 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.440 promise you economic growth if you can like assist in 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.680 this you know, extractive process, and they'll be able to 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.640 convince them with you know, misleading statistics and you know 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.280 all that kind of stuff. In terms of logging industry 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:24.120 is getting getting really good at radicalizing rule populations to 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.000 have them believe that it's one not it's it's not 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.360 like economically destructive to take down trees. They might even 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.520 say it's like good, um and all all that kind 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.880 of stuff has have Has there been like any outreach 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.360 in terms of kind of addressing addressing people in small 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.400 towns who like maybe used to like you know, rely 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.440 on unlogging or something and how does how does that works? 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.800 I know, like they'll be like, oh, but you people 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:52.560 come from the city and now you're coming out here 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.560 into like the woods where I live, and I think 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.240 it's good that they're chopping down these trees. Right, there's 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:58.920 there's there's there's like that kind of that that kind 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.760 of disconnection because again, no one, no one's immune to propaganda. 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.200 You can you just you just just have to find 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.840 the specific one. Um. See. I'm just curious about, like 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:09.919 in terms of in terms of like forest defense, how 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.680 often this comes up and how and how you kind 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.920 of yeah, I don't know what's what steps to make 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.040 to to be like to tell people, hey, maybe you're 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.239 believe these things because timber industries told you them, Like 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.040 how how how how do you start that conversation with people? Yeah, 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.440 this is like actually the heart of the forest defense 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.840 work ahead, what you're talking about right now, the heart 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.840 of our work ahead. Um. And I would also say, 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:43.880 you know, there's a there's certainly, um a dichotomy that 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:48.440 the media especially likes to present between the rural logging 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.879 communities and you know Portland or city based in the 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.240 metalists and the hippie environmentalists too like come in and yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.760 yeah yeah, And everyone's familiar with that, and there's of 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.439 course some truth to that, but I want to say, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:06.359 like super clearly there are so many rural folks who 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.000 do not support the logging industry, and so that's like 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.400 a false dichotomy that gets presented to us right off 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.520 the bat, and a lot of those you know, for 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.200 in the in um the work that I've been doing 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.720 on forest forest defense, essentially, we're always connecting with folks 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.679 on the ground in literally the backyards of these logging proposals, 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.879 and many of them are super uninterested in having their 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.640 backyards clear cut. And so we you know, the we 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.760 we pushed directly against that mythology that you know it's 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.600 just environmentalists coming in from Portland, because we work directly 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.960 with people, including for Brighton Bush, but with every single 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:42.960 thing that we work on directly with people who are 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.520 literally on the front lines of that logging. That said, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.959 there is absolutely um a huge pull um. You know 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.280 Oregon specifically as you know, famous for logging. Like we 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.639 talked about last time, there's a logger on top of 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.960 the capitol. Um. You know, are the mayor of Portland's 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:06.199 logging money? Yeah, it's in Oregon's Oregonians blood. Yeah. And 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.600 for rural Oregonians, Um, there are economic realities where in 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:15.480 some cases, some counties benefit from UM logging in their 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.480 total from the logging industry, their school you know, schools 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.119 are tied to logging money UM. And there's you know, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.560 in a lot of ways, a narrative that is not 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.040 really accurate anymore, but has like an element of nostalgia 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.160 to it, like you know, logging towns and UM this 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.119 old story about how things used to work with small, 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.480 small family logging. That's not how it is anymore. But 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.320 that narrative that like nostalgic narrative, carries on into a 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.520 lot of communities. And so what the way that I 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.040 like to cut through that UM for people is by 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.240 making it really clear that there's a difference between small 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.000 you know, family loggers of lore UM and and you 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.280 know of you know, people's what people are attached to, 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.880 and the kinds of what we're seeing today is we're 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.560 king at Wall Street logging. We're looking at Wall Street 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:09.840 invested UM invested huge you know corporate industries who owned 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.320 who can who still own like you know, huge percentages 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.639 of our drinking water sheds of our UM communities. Some 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.160 some of the communities on the coast are owned primarily 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:25.880 by private industrial Wall Street funded UM logging corporations, and 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.160 that's you know, those aren't mom and pop. They're not 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.080 living in the community. They're living often not even on 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:35.560 the Pacific Northwest. These are rich ass assholes who are 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:41.560 destroying our bioregion. And you know, I think that making 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.520 it clear that those aren't those folks are not like us. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:49.200 You know, those are not like rural Oregonians. Your those 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.600 are not your friends. Those are not you know, your 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.840 pals or your neighbors. And just cutting through that narrative 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.040 that like, oh, you know logging communities, Um, you know, 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.520 loggers are your friendly neighbor. Actually no, loggers are Wall Street, Um, 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.200 you know, investment corporations, rich money people who are doing 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.040 this destruction. And just kind of like breaking that. I guess, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.280 like that, um, that attachment that people have to this idea, 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:28.880 that's just not a reality anymore. The reality is that 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.959 people who are for logging in rural communities are they 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.120 have a lot more common with those of us who 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.639 are fighting logging than the actual people doing the logging, 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.160 if that makes sense. Like there's a lack of understanding 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.400 of what the logging industry actually is. It's like back 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.000 to that nostalgia, like people who are against logging in 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:53.119 rural communities. UM, you know, often genuinely do not realize 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.159 that this is Wall Street and like who's doing this logging. 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.400 They're still thinking it's their you know, neighbor or their 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.119 friend and it's you know, these stories. But you know, 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.800 the reality is that, you know, this is corporate timber 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.200